IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-03-24

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koyote	have no keyboard input showing up at all, is all	00:00
Proteous	then how are you typing in irc?	00:02
Proteous	lies!!	00:02
koyote	heh	00:02
Proteous	:P	00:02
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AStorm	hehe	00:28
AStorm	why, oh why are maps so large...	00:28
AStorm	any satellite map sources better than Google Satellite?	00:29
AStorm	(eastern europe)	00:29
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cyberholic	geeesus... even on easter 2.5 billion people in here.... GOOOD evening everyone :)	00:30
qwerty12_N800	Good evening :)	00:30
AStorm	:)	00:30
cyberholic	And like always: the same :)	00:31
AStorm	because Maemo is mobile	00:31
AStorm	:)	00:31
cyberholic	gooood marketing text!	00:31
AStorm	we're not bound to chairs	00:31
* koyote sighs.		00:31
cyberholic	"We can do - because maemo is mobile!"	00:31
koyote	I'm so used to emacs for irc and mail and pim tracking	00:31
AStorm	koyote: dl the devel image and compile emacs for maemo	00:32
cyberholic	I have just been chatting with a guy to see if we can make mojocafe.de work on the Nokia n95 and.... it does NOT work... could someone please hack the n95 and put maemo on it!?	00:32
AStorm	hehe	00:32
AStorm	wrong cpu?	00:32
qwerty12_N800	A port of emacs is on chinook	00:32
koyote	AStorm: ugh. all I have to say on that.	00:32
cyberholic	I am sure that the guys at Nokia won`t recognize it!	00:32
koyote	qwerty12_N800: really? cool	00:32
qwerty12_N800	Yea, its on itt somewhere	00:33
skibur	anybody played krazymario?	00:33
cyberholic	Astorm: no, its not the CPU - its the fact that it has a thing called "AutoRotation". If you make a website fullscreen, it changes automaticly to landscape mode...	00:33
koyote	what i really need if left handedness on this device	00:33
koyote	scrollbars are painful	00:33
qwerty12_N800	Tried rrotation patch?	00:34
koyote	nothing on gronmayer for emacs	00:34
cyberholic	koyote: i think that THAT is the most difficult GUI task in design: making something fullscreen without scrolling. That's why, in my opinion, Canola is very nice!	00:34
koyote	well, i just want the scrollbars on the left	00:35
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AStorm	heh	00:35
qwerty12_N800	I believe rotation of screen to 270 would do that.	00:35
AStorm	just write a script	00:35
AStorm	or an applet	00:35
AStorm	rotation just needs reading fromthe sensor	00:36
qwerty12_N800	You cannot put maemo on n95 :p lol but bb5 parts are same	00:36
AStorm	hehe	00:36
cyberholic	by the way: does the VisualBoy Advance Gameboy emulator run ok?	00:36
qwerty12_N800	Koyote: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16189&highlight=emacs	00:36
qwerty12_N800	Emacs	00:36
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AStorm	cybernotic: canola could've been better	00:36
qwerty12_N800	Aren't i resourceful :p	00:37
cyberholic	lol	00:37
AStorm	seekbar sucks a bit	00:37
AStorm	there's no fullscreen high contrast clock	00:37
AStorm	:P	00:37
cyberholic	Astorm: yeah, the setting options could be better. but as mentioned, its very hard to put so much info on a fullscreen option. That's what made me most headaches with mojocafe.de	00:37
cyberholic	AStorm: at the mojocafe, there is :)	00:38
AStorm	heh	00:38
AStorm	mediabox	00:38
cyberholic	I nu	00:38
AStorm	except it's buggy and has even suckier seekbar	00:38
AStorm	:P	00:38
qwerty12_N800	Radio support pwns tho in it	00:39
* koyote gets slightly excited		00:39
koyote	that's going to wait until i have the bt keyboard in my hands	00:41
AStorm	radio support of canola is betterf	00:41
qwerty12_N800	Canola uses internet	00:41
AStorm	supports .pls for one	00:41
qwerty12_N800	Im talking fm	00:41
AStorm	no FM in n810 afaicr	00:42
qwerty12_N800	But i forget, n810 doesn't have fm radio chip :p	00:42
qwerty12_N800	Yes	00:42
AStorm	:P	00:42
AStorm	who needs fm anyway	00:42
qwerty12_N800	I do ;)	00:42
AStorm	hehe	00:42
AStorm	old school	00:42
qwerty12_N800	Although i don't really use my n800 for music, my w810 even does a better job.	00:43
cyberholic	whats your w810?	00:43
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koyote	I like fm radio sometimes.	00:44
koyote	does the n800 do that?	00:44
qwerty12_N800	My Sony Ericsson Walkman phone - pretty old now	00:44
qwerty12_N800	Yes	00:44
AStorm	well, nope	00:44
AStorm	n810 is quite good	00:44
AStorm	not audiofile, but good	00:44
AStorm	I'll publish RMAA results later	00:45
qwerty12_N800	I use gtk-gnutella on my n800 and bt tracks over to my 810 :p	00:45
AStorm	hehe	00:45
AStorm	n800 has probably worse analog part of the signal	00:45
AStorm	sounds diff	00:46
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koyote	oh. dude. how much fun is this. I just relaized i have an old think outside bt keyboard i used on a blackberry a year ago	00:46
qwerty12_N800	Lol, lucky you :p	00:46
qwerty12_N800	Now i want one :(	00:47
qwerty12_N800	:P	00:47
AStorm	expensive	00:47
AStorm	and N810 keys are quite nice	00:48
AStorm	5 finger typing	00:48
AStorm	uhm, four	00:48
qwerty12_N800	N810 didn't justify £300 difference for me	00:49
AStorm	although with bt it could be useful for coding	00:49
AStorm	qwerty12_N800: well, 200€	00:49
qwerty12_N800	At the time I bought my n800 (few months ago)	00:49
koyote	well, i have an 800 anyway	00:50
AStorm	but then, I coiuld get N810, so it's better .0	00:50
AStorm	.P	00:50
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koyote	i wanted the 800 for the dual sd slots	00:50
AStorm	I don't: N810 is smaller, pocketable	00:51
AStorm	that's what coumts	00:51
koyote	the 800 is smaller than my 200lx	00:51
KotCzarny	not much more	00:51
KotCzarny	:)	00:51
koyote	which may FINALLY get replaced.	00:51
johnx	N800 is pocketable...it just depends on how big your pockets are :P	00:51
AStorm	enough to fit	00:51
AStorm	N800 wouldn't	00:51
wom-	keyboard is the thing for me	00:51
AStorm	fairly large jeans pocket	00:51
koyote	I wear a utilikilt most days, I think the n800 is fine and pocketable	00:51
AStorm	keyboard is nice, yup	00:51
koyote	the keyboard is, too.	00:52
AStorm	koyote: batbelt? lol	00:52
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koyote	Astorm: nah, side pockets	00:53
koyote	utilikilts.com	00:53
AStorm	hmm	00:53
johnx	my n800 fits in my jeans pocket...	00:53
AStorm	gun holster? :P	00:53
solmumaha	everyone knows 770 is the only pocketable one	00:54
AStorm	lol	00:54
johnx	that's because it comes with it's own pocket...	00:54
AStorm	koyote: which ome?	00:54
koyote	I like the construction model. have two of them	00:54
qwerty12_N800	I have my glocc in my holster :p	00:55
KotCzarny	construction model?	00:55
AStorm	btw, any place in EU I can get a good ... hmm, purse?,wallet? for N810?	00:55
KotCzarny	just use generic one	00:55
koyote	workmans kilt	00:55
AStorm	heh	00:56
AStorm	true scotsman?	00:56
doc\|home	qwerty12_N800: I doubt that given you can't even spell it correctly :P	00:56
Cptnodegard	just tried TiEmu. genius	00:56
koyote	not a chance. a bit of welsh and 75% swede families	00:56
AStorm	hehe	00:57
koyote	kilts aren't about unwashed people from the arctic coast of the birtish isles.	00:57
AStorm	at least part british	00:57
koyote	they're just manly.	00:57
AStorm	I know, just messing with you	00:57
koyote	and my gf likes it.......	00:57
KotCzarny	o.O	00:57
qwerty12_N800	doc\|home: glock then :p. I thought it was glocc tho	00:57
qwerty12_N800	No one in London wears a kilt :p	00:58
AStorm	so, where do i get a protective and nice purse for N810 in EU?	00:58
doc\|home	no one in Ireland does either	00:58
koyote	okay, I go get batteries at store	00:58
koyote	AStorm: wait a week until i make some, jeez.	00:58
AStorm	any specialized fast charger?	00:58
koyote	have to finish these 3 knife sheaths and make my own hardcase wallets	00:59
AStorm	koyote: blah, that I can too, but not from foam	00:59
AStorm	has to be slim	00:59
AStorm	slick like N810 too	00:59
qwerty12_N800	>.<	00:59
qwerty12_N800	Not really :p :d	00:59
koyote	I want tough. I'm a knifemaker and bicyclist. I am really hard on stuff	00:59
koyote	probably 8-10 ounce leather.	01:00
AStorm	black leather could be nice	01:00
koyote	okay. store. batteries. then bt keyboard works	01:00
AStorm	wiith one side hardened and proper cuttings	01:00
AStorm	maybe with a clear window	01:01
AStorm	(hard thouugh)	01:01
AStorm	need to tone down that autorepeat :P	01:01
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AStorm	blah, 300 MB... and depth 4 is 1.2 GB...	01:06
KotCzarny	:)	01:07
KotCzarny	yup	01:07
AStorm	and full maps of poland is some 100 TB	01:07
KotCzarny	;)	01:07
KotCzarny	trick is to get every other zoom level	01:07
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AStorm	nah	01:07
AStorm	I'm grabbing large	01:07
AStorm	and zooom 5 and 6	01:08
AStorm	over 10 is tiny	01:08
AStorm	zoom 5 and 6 of certain cities ofc	01:08
AStorm	other levels are pointless, esp. 4	01:09
AStorm	btw, how do i remove a level? (from card, downloaded)	01:09
KotCzarny	probably with the whole db..	01:09
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KotCzarny	:>	01:09
AStorm	noooo	01:09
KotCzarny	or just get some sqlite3 editor	01:10
KotCzarny	streamtuner is nice	01:10
AStorm	thought the same :P	01:10
KotCzarny	but 'stop' button doesn't work	01:10
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AStorm	well, Warsaw and surroundings is 300 MB	01:10
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AStorm	hmm, dling maps with maemo-mapper sure pegs the cpu	01:20
AStorm	wonder why	01:21
KotCzarny	processing, saving	01:22
johnx	constantly adding tiles to the db?	01:22
KotCzarny	rehashing?	01:22
AStorm	johnx: probable	01:24
AStorm	not with transactions done properly	01:24
KotCzarny	anyone else noticed google maps barfing after dling some maps?	01:25
AStorm	nah	01:26
AStorm	work ok here	01:26
jott	yeah maemomapper should probably show the captcha needed :)	01:26
KotCzarny	:)	01:26
jott	or use some ocr to solve it :)	01:26
KotCzarny	i wonder if maemo-mapper maintainer knows about it	01:27
KotCzarny	:)	01:27
AStorm	the captcha is only needed if you go over about 2 GB of transfer	01:27
jott	no	01:27
AStorm	so it's rarely needed	01:27
jott	it's probably randomized	01:27
AStorm	unlikely	01:28
jott	i got it after ~100mb once	01:28
AStorm	I'd have hit that aleady today	01:28
AStorm	no, someone else from the IP hit the limit close	01:28
AStorm	:)	01:28
jott	increases the likelihood of a randomized limit :)	01:29
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AStorm	who cares	01:29
AStorm	just dl it a few times	01:29
jott	those who hit by the limit earlier than you	01:29
AStorm	:P	01:29
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AStorm	you won't get the limit if logged into google	01:30
AStorm	(cookie)	01:30
koyote	h4h	01:30
koyote	5 can'	01:30
jott	maemomaper won't use the cookie..	01:30
jott	atleast atm	01:30
AStorm	Google will recognize the IP	01:30
koyote	i can't seem to pair the keyboard	01:30
jott	lol	01:31
AStorm	koyote: need a driver?	01:31
jott	this would be mad	01:31
ptman	frogpad + maemo is quite sweet	01:31
KotCzarny	pairing kb can be frustrating	01:31
AStorm	N810,is better than frogpad	01:31
KotCzarny	i got it after ~20-30 tries	01:31
KotCzarny	:>	01:31
ptman	AStorm: what? have you actually tried a frogpad? the n810 keyboard doens't hold a candle to it	01:32
AStorm	I did	01:32
AStorm	no, it wins if used in a 4 finger way	01:32
AStorm	much faster	01:32
AStorm	at least a few times	01:33
ptman	as much as I like the n810 for the keyboard, the frogpad is vastly superior for me	01:33
ptman	might just be my fingers	01:33
KotCzarny	i could use a faster connection	01:33
AStorm	probably	01:33
KotCzarny	hum	01:33
KotCzarny	:)	01:33
AStorm	KotCzarny: so could I	01:33
AStorm	this one here is junk 512/128	01:34
KotCzarny	i have 768/128	01:34
KotCzarny	enough for most of the tasks	01:34
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AStorm	and filled with map dl	01:34
AStorm	yep	01:34
KotCzarny	but sometimes i need bigger one	01:34
KotCzarny	:>	01:34
AStorm	I wonder how fast I could eat through 5 GB limit	01:35
AStorm	(with N of course)	01:35
koyote	this is weird	01:35
koyote	AStorm: don't think i need a driver, but maybe	01:36
koyote	looking around	01:36
AStorm	~5% of 300 MB is depressing	01:36
infobot	AStorm: okay	01:36
AStorm	wtf?	01:36
AStorm	infobot - ya crazy? ;)	01:36
AStorm	5%	01:36
jaska	~5% of 300 MB?	01:36
infobot	somebody said 5% of 300 mb was depressing	01:37
johnx	ahaha	01:37
AStorm	lol	01:37
AStorm	it can't even recall who	01:37
WormFood	czr, I missed your question last night, because I went to bed. I'm in Shenzhen right now, but I will soon go back to Guangzhou.	01:37
AStorm	should'vee added "in 30 min"	01:38
AStorm	anything smaller than N810 would be likely to be stolen here	01:39
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elb	hmmm even with cjk fonts installed, media player doesnt' seem to render cjk titles properly	01:40
AStorm	even it has to be guarded	01:40
AStorm	elb: on N800 or N810?	01:40
elb	n810	01:40
AStorm	install cjk-fonts from extras	01:41
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AStorm	should be enough	01:41
elb	I installed ttf-kochi-gothic directly	01:41
elb	let me try cjk-fonts	01:41
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AStorm	maybe use proper locale too	01:41
AStorm	mediaplayer uses UTF-8 afaicr	01:42
elb	I'm using an UTF-8 locale, surely it doesn't also require a CJK locale	01:42
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AStorm	this no-longer-broadband feels like 56k	01:43
KotCzarny	be happy that you don't have 56k :P	01:43
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AStorm	(FCC changed definiion of broadband to 768/128)	01:43
jaska	should be 1024/1024 heh	01:43
AStorm	KotCzarny: used that for a long time	01:43
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WormFood	bandwidth is relative	01:44
AStorm	jaska: nah, large UL is still expensive in cable	01:44
AStorm	as in DOCSIs	01:44
* elb vomits on docsis		01:45
WormFood	upload bandwidth is expensive, because they want to sell that for hosting	01:45
AStorm	i know now how to remove maps	01:45
KotCzarny	anyone with maeomo.org account to notify maemo mapper autjor of google captcha?	01:45
AStorm	just pick delete in manage maps	01:45
AStorm	then select right level and range	01:46
AStorm	:)	01:46
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AStorm	it's funny they don't use minutes and seconds of angle	01:46
elb	hmmm I have no cjk-fonts	01:46
* elb pokes around		01:46
AStorm	only decimal degrees	01:47
AStorm	elb: it's called close to that	01:47
elb	I have no cjk anything	01:47
elb	(but I have the maemo-cjk repository, from which I installed ttf-kochi-gothic	01:47
elb	)	01:47
AStorm	should work ok	01:48
AStorm	just fix /etc/fonts.d	01:48
KotCzarny	1.1G /media/mmc2/Maps	01:48
KotCzarny	;)	01:48
AStorm	KotCzarny: what for...	01:48
KotCzarny	nyc and poland	01:49
KotCzarny	and bialystok at close zoom	01:49
elb	fix /etc/fonts.d in what way?	01:49
AStorm	yeah, NYC is large	01:49
AStorm	warsaw takes 1.2g at 4-6 zoom	01:49
KotCzarny	hmm, snapshot would be nice in maemo mapper	01:49
KotCzarny	ie. set area/zoom -> png	01:49
jaska	heh, no vector maps?	01:50
AStorm	screen? use load applet	01:50
KotCzarny	astorm: but i want the map of the whole thing	01:50
KotCzarny	not just visible part	01:50
AStorm	jaska: these wouldn't save space	01:50
AStorm	too many points still	01:51
jaska	1.2g for a single citys map just sounds rather large	01:51
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AStorm	just uberslow to draw	01:51
KotCzarny	jaska, that depends on zoom level	01:51
KotCzarny	and jpg/png quality	01:51
KotCzarny	i guess	01:51
AStorm	jaska: blah, level 4 is large, is 1:750	01:51
AStorm	or so	01:52
elb	hmmm Kochi Gothic is already in the sans-serif alias	01:52
elb	why the F doesn't it work	01:52
jaska	i mean compared to vector maps :)	01:52
AStorm	jaska, vector of good quality is large too	01:52
koyote	ugh	01:52
AStorm	many coords	01:52
KotCzarny	someone could turn of php debug on maemo.org	01:52
AStorm	KotCzarny: nay, harder for me to hack in	01:53
AStorm	:P	01:53
AStorm	level 4 is overkill anyway	01:54
KotCzarny	i have some areas dled in lv 2	01:54
KotCzarny	;)	01:54
AStorm	real maps are 1:1500	01:54
KotCzarny	usually those where i live	01:54
AStorm	that is level 5 (a bit less)	01:55
AStorm	only military maps are 1:500	01:55
KotCzarny	erm.	01:56
elb	real maps may be 1:1500, but they don't suck as bad as display maps at 1:1500 ;-)	01:56
KotCzarny	why the hell usbcontroll install pysthon-{pygame,gnome,id3lib,imaging,runtime} ?!	01:57
AStorm	elb: suck more	02:02
AStorm	multipage books	02:02
AStorm	no nice go to function	02:02
AStorm	sorry for pl scales	02:02
koyote	damn. this one simply doesn't want to pair	02:02
AStorm	should've been 1:75000	02:03
AStorm	koyote: keep trying	02:03
AStorm	check if you enabled bt hid	02:03
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AStorm	(in control panel)	02:03
lcuk	koyote what kind of kb is it	02:03
KotCzarny	koyote: :)	02:03
AStorm	actually, lev. 4 is 1 cm to 115 m or so	02:07
AStorm	real overkill	02:07
AStorm	can pinpoint my pos. with gps in a building	02:07
AStorm	(close to a window ofc)	02:08
lcuk	(3 hours of holding aloft your sacrificial 810 and praying to the skygods)	02:09
AStorm	nope	02:09
AStorm	first lock took 20 min	02:10
AStorm	:P	02:10
AStorm	second took 20 s	02:10
AStorm	nice improvement	02:10
AStorm	needs a clear shot at the sky	02:10
AStorm	wider the view looking up a device, the better	02:11
jaska	gps lock with a n810 in 20s?	02:11
lcuk	yes, after the first time it will do	02:12
* jaska pinches himself, i must be in a dream		02:12
AStorm	well,that was after a loss	02:12
lcuk	its that first time thats a killer thouhg	02:12
AStorm	normal one is like 2 min	02:12
AStorm	ya	02:12
AStorm	needs to build a kind of db of sats	02:12
lcuk	if you only need to use it once on a journey then your bolloxed	02:12
AStorm	no	02:12
AStorm	once in an area	02:13
KotCzarny	unless you're lost in the wilderness	02:13
KotCzarny	:>	02:13
AStorm	it remembers sats	02:13
lcuk	yes but then we get onto the other 810 problem - randomly flattening yourself	02:13
AStorm	if you'rre walking it won't lose the lock, or regain it very quick	02:13
AStorm	lol	02:13
lcuk	nobody has 30 minutes to prepare the gps	02:13
AStorm	you need to do it once in a rough area	02:14
AStorm	once since format	02:14
lcuk	no, once since reboot	02:14
AStorm	nope	02:14
AStorm	checked	02:14
lcuk	and since battery flattens itself regularly	02:14
AStorm	it stores the data	02:14
lcuk	then why the fuck cant i ever get a quick lock	02:15
KotCzarny	Note: Certain repositories (most notably, the commercial ones) may have license agreements attached with their use. It may be illegal to use a certain repository with Maemo Mapper or under certain conditions. This includes the repositories downloaded via the Download... button. If you are not sure if you are legally allowed to use a particular repository, you should delete it from your list of repositories. The authors of Maemo Ma	02:15
AStorm	lcuk... no idea	02:15
KotCzarny	cular repository.	02:15
KotCzarny	hehe	02:15
AStorm	I'm talking abou maemo-mapper	02:15
AStorm	maybe your sats moved	02:16
lcuk	if i spend 1/2 hour getting a lock then turn off map and turn off gps and try reconnecting later its like a normal gps	02:16
AStorm	US?	02:16
lcuk	uk	02:16
lcuk	our satellites are more refined	02:16
lcuk	they drink tea	02:16
AStorm	maybe someone moved sats?	02:16
lcuk	they are moving always	02:16
WormFood	lcuk, and talk in a funny modulation	02:16
AStorm	nah	02:16
lcuk	yeah, especially the liverpudlian gps	02:16
AStorm	they're LEO, right?	02:17
lcuk	ahem - yes, gps is not geostationary	02:17
WormFood	I met a guy from the UK a few days ago....he said he was from the UK, and I said I couldn't tell from his accent (I was being sarcastic)	02:17
AStorm	they change every few weeks	02:17
lcuk	no, they change every minute	02:17
AStorm	about 2 deg sky a day	02:17
WormFood	gps can't be geostationary to cover the entire planet	02:18
lcuk	they rotate the earth twice daily	02:18
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lcuk	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System	02:18
AStorm	yep	02:18
WormFood	just like satellite phone satellites can't be geostationary too	02:18
lcuk	thats a different issue though - lag	02:18
AStorm	but you'll note they move hnriz. fairly slowly	02:19
WormFood	lcuk, I have to use a VPN to see wikipedia :(	02:19
AStorm	or was that vertically	02:19
AStorm	so once you see all these, should be great	02:19
lcuk	no, there are multiple planes	02:20
AStorm	yes	02:20
lcuk	3 circular obrits	02:20
AStorm	no problem too	02:20
AStorm	note they rotate out of phase	02:20
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AStorm	so chance you catch what you know increases a lot	02:21
lcuk	ok, lets get back to the point. the gps in my 810 is shit and cannot be relied upon when its needed (first time, ymmv). a good gps wipes the floor with it and locks MUCH faster	02:22
AStorm	yup	02:22
AStorm	probably someone could overdrive it	02:23
lcuk	i am hoping a software fix could at least make it work - like keeping the almanac and using it without having to relock	02:23
AStorm	scrfew FCC	02:23
AStorm	it just has tooo low sensitivity	02:23
AStorm	maemo, cpu rape by mapper :P	02:24
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lcuk	you overdrive transmitters, theres usually nothing you can do to increase sensitivity - unless maybe putting 810 in a wok and leaving it on window	02:25
AStorm	hehe, nay	02:26
AStorm	increase receivers voltage	02:26
AStorm	usually increases senc.	02:26
AStorm	sens.	02:26
AStorm	or burns it :P	02:27
lcuk	i thought that would just increase noise - unless you are actively doing something to clean up the signal pumping up the noise wont help	02:27
AStorm	no, it will improve SNR	02:27
AStorm	in its amp	02:27
lcuk	thats like increasing the volume of an untuned tv	02:27
lcuk	you just make the snow louder	02:27
AStorm	signal too	02:28
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lcuk	severly doubt that logic without adding filters inline or improving the antenna	02:28
AStorm	the problem is lack of sens. and not noise	02:29
lcuk	but they go hand in hand - sensitivity is ability to extract a clean signal from the noise	02:29
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AStorm	it can't grayes and no	02:30
lcuk	wb pupnik	02:30
AStorm	actually, the real fix is logarithmic amp addition	02:30
AStorm	that amps strong signal more strongly	02:31
AStorm	= compressor	02:31
AStorm	cheap and effective	02:31
AStorm	but I'm not feeling real electronic-fu and wealthy enough right now	02:32
lcuk	what we dont know is if the forma factor and circuit board location chosen by nokia is susceptable to internal noise and no matter what you do you are working with dirty signals	02:32
AStorm	it?s not	02:32
AStorm	top left corner	02:33
lcuk	we dont know that	02:33
lcuk	is it better with keyboard out?	02:33
AStorm	we know that :P	02:33
AStorm	the other way	02:33
AStorm	with keys hidden	02:33
lcuk	no, we know where it is - but we dont know if RF given off by the screen or the ambient sensor or other electronic around	02:33
AStorm	is not according to my meter	02:33
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WormFood	can anyone tell me the dhcp client process in the N800? what is being called when? It makes a connection to the WAP, but it will not retrieve an IP	02:34
AStorm	too quiet for my indicator	02:34
AStorm	WormFood: it's udhcp	02:34
KotCzarny	2627 root 1472 SW< /sbin/udhcpc -i wlan0 -s /etc/udhcpc/udhcpc.script -f	02:34
AStorm	ya	02:34
WormFood	thanks KotCzarny	02:34
AStorm	sucky client	02:34
KotCzarny	but works	02:35
AStorm	need real dhclient	02:35
WormFood	a worthless piece of shit client is what it is....because it does not work most of the time	02:35
KotCzarny	it's a part of busybox afair	02:35
AStorm	udhcp fails with buggy servers	02:35
KotCzarny	heh.	02:35
WormFood	bullshit!	02:35
AStorm	KotCzarny: nope	02:35
KotCzarny	then it's buggy servers' fail	02:35
KotCzarny	:)	02:35
lcuk	have we got internal 810 pictures yet?	02:35
WormFood	it WAS working, then to stops for NO GOD DAMN REASON!	02:35
AStorm	KotCzarny: MS fail	02:35
KotCzarny	:>	02:35
AStorm	WormFood: see what i mean?	02:35
* KotCzarny has openwrt		02:35
lcuk	is that contaigous?	02:36
KotCzarny	quite	02:36
WormFood	it WAS working with my WTR54G, then for no reason, it just quit working one day	02:36
WormFood	and that is not a typo...WTR54G, NOT a WRT54G	02:36
AStorm	WormFood: remove conn and readd it	02:36
WormFood	AStorm, that does not work	02:36
AStorm	here it did	02:36
KotCzarny	what's a wtr54g?	02:37
lcuk	does the ap work for other devices	02:37
KotCzarny	o.O	02:37
WormFood	it won't even work if I give it a static IP, because it won't work with the default gateway	02:37
AStorm	let the router expire the session first	02:37
AStorm	or remoove it	02:37
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WormFood	the routers have been rebooted	02:37
WormFood	there is no way it is holding an old session	02:37
AStorm	and the conn removed?	02:37
KotCzarny	they can store cache anyway..	02:37
AStorm	ya	02:37
WormFood	KotCzarny, it is a travel router...check it out	02:37
KotCzarny	if /var is on flash	02:37
AStorm	dhclient pwns udhcp	02:38
AStorm	I want a build	02:38
johnx	WormFood, maybe set it to static in the GUI connection manager and run udhcpc from the command line to debug?	02:38
WormFood	I have reflashed my N800 with the latest OS2008 because my unit does not turn on many times	02:38
WormFood	I shouldn't have to debug it, it should work out of the box	02:38
AStorm	WormFood: there's a fix for that in new kernel	02:38
AStorm	oscillator problem	02:38
WormFood	yes, I know...that is why I upgraded	02:39
WormFood	that is why downgrading is so painful for me	02:39
johnx	WormFood, do you want our help debugging or do you just want to complain to us?	02:39
WormFood	the first time I had that problem was on a 15 hour airplane flight	02:39
johnx	the latest firmware 51-3 does not change anything besides the bootloader compared to 50-2, so it probably isn't the problem	02:40
WormFood	johnx, I just want it to work....I'll debug it if I need to, but I really don't want to	02:40
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WormFood	yeah, I know, the newest was nothing more than the bootloader, but I was hoping they fixed something else in it, and just didn't report it....so much for hoping	02:40
KotCzarny	wormfood, it probably generates some logs..	02:40
KotCzarny	or not	02:41
KotCzarny	:)	02:41
WormFood	I have much better things to do with my time than to debug this....but I will debug it if that is what it takes	02:41
KotCzarny	i think syslog is needed	02:41
WormFood	I rather doubt it generates logs....but I could be wrong....I was wrong once before	02:41
WormFood	but then found out I was mistaken	02:41
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johnx	WormFood, just make the connection static and run udhcpc -i wlan0 from the CLI...it's not that bad	02:41
lcuk	wormfood - it does work out of the box - n800 was designed and supplied with os2007	02:41
KotCzarny	try running udhcpc by hand?	02:41
WormFood	lcuk, actually, I downgraded to OS2007 last night, and while it claims to get an IP, it also does not work	02:42
WormFood	KotCzarny, no...because every time it claims it can't get an IP, I can't use the CLI on it	02:42
johnx	WormFood, I know you think it's the N800 but I have had similar weird experiences with routers	02:42
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WormFood	I would use SSH, but it is hard when I can't get an IP	02:42
lcuk	do other devices connected to the ap have problems?	02:42
WormFood	I think the N800 is defective	02:43
WormFood	no, of course not, everything else works perfectly when connected to these routers	02:43
johnx	then ask Nokia for an RMA...	02:43
WormFood	an RMA will be very hard for me	02:43
KotCzarny	o.O	02:43
WormFood	I'm in China	02:43
johnx	but if you are willing to pull up "X terminal" for like 10 seconds you could be sure	02:43
WormFood	my receipt for my N800 is in Florida	02:43
WormFood	johnx, most of the time it tells me that wlan0 does not exist (even when I can see it with iwconfig and ifconfig)	02:44
* lcuk never had to enter console ever to play with router settings :S		02:44
johnx	lcuk, obviously you lead a blessed existence...	02:45
* KotCzarny too		02:45
johnx	WormFood, also, why did you say a static IP address wasn't working?	02:45
lcuk	i just believe in the simplest approach	02:45
KotCzarny	openwrt is quite nice in this area	02:45
KotCzarny	:)	02:45
WormFood	I set the static IP, but I still can't reach the internet	02:45
KotCzarny	hmm	02:45
WormFood	it appears to not be setting the default gatway	02:45
WormFood	gateway	02:45
KotCzarny	maybe it's burnt?	02:46
KotCzarny	route -n ?	02:46
lcuk	fill gateway with router address	02:46
KotCzarny	use pc's dhcp?	02:46
lcuk	cos - that IS your gateway - its not the one your isp provides	02:46
KotCzarny	ie. run dhcpd on lin/win ?	02:46
WormFood	I should not need to do that	02:46
KotCzarny	try first	02:46
WormFood	it should work out of the box	02:46
KotCzarny	if it solves the problem	02:46
KotCzarny	then you will know it's something about router/udhcpc	02:47
johnx	KotCzarny, running dhcpd on different box is probably a little more than is necessary for this	02:47
WormFood	it is NOT a problem with the router, the problem is on the N800	02:47
Tama^2	WormFood: if you set a static IP address then no device will be able to figure out what the default GW is unless you tell it	02:47
johnx	WormFood, what kind of signal are you getting on the N800?	02:47
lcuk	worm - are you leaving the gateway blank? if so just try putting the router ip into it	02:47
WormFood	if I have to carry around my laptop to use the N800, I just won't use the N800 at all	02:47
KotCzarny	johnx: checking different solutions helps finding the source	02:47
KotCzarny	of the problems	02:47
WormFood	johnx, I'm sitting next to the AP, I get full signal	02:47
WormFood	Tama^2, I know what the default gateway is on the router here	02:48
KotCzarny	wormfood: run tcpdump and see if n800 transmits anything?	02:48
WormFood	setting a static IP is not a viable solution for random APs when I'm out and about	02:48
johnx	WormFood, have you tried the N800 on any other AP?	02:48
lcuk	no, but lets just see if it can work now	02:48
AStorm	hehe	02:48
lcuk	proving a single case will test the electronics	02:48
WormFood	as soon as I connect my laptop to a wired connection, I will run wireshark and/or kismet	02:49
AStorm	it's because of udhcp having random mood	02:49
lcuk	at home i need to set fixed ips at work its automatic	02:49
WormFood	johnx, any time I am somewhere for a very short period of time (like waiting for the bus) it works	02:49
WormFood	anytime I'm somewhere for a few hours or a few days, it does not work	02:49
WormFood	I swear this thing has a "critical use detector" in it	02:49
johnx	heh	02:49
lcuk	well, now we know what free hardware it has ;)	02:50
WormFood	oh yeah	02:50
WormFood	and another thing	02:50
WormFood	when I enable encryption on my WTR54G, then my N800 will work	02:50
WormFood	as soon as I disable encryption it will not get an IP	02:50
johnx	ahh...that is interesting	02:51
WormFood	very	02:51
lcuk	so hang on here - you are shouting long and hard about it not working, but you already have a way to get it working	02:51
WormFood	because it makes no god damn sense	02:51
AStorm	I've to wire light-detect with some app	02:51
WormFood	no I do not have a way to get it working	02:51
AStorm	maybe alarm?	02:51
WormFood	how do I use it at the bus stop?	02:51
AStorm	to wire me to light cycle	02:51
johnx	you said it works at the bus stop...	02:51
AStorm	:P	02:51
WormFood	I can't go around changing people's APs	02:51
KotCzarny	:>	02:51
WormFood	sometimes	02:51
lcuk	different routers are a different issue	02:51
AStorm	nah, counterproductive	02:51
WormFood	it is completely random where it does not work	02:51
lcuk	>>> at home i need to set fixed ips at work its automatic <<<	02:52
AStorm	ya	02:52
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WormFood	IT NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM FOR THE FIRST MONTH I HAD IT	02:52
AStorm	it's udhcp being fail	02:52
WormFood	I mean NEVER had this problem	02:52
lcuk	lol @ gettin irate	02:52
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WormFood	it connected to everything just fine	02:52
AStorm	WormFood: just lucky	02:52
KotCzarny	astorm: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2008pl/	02:52
KotCzarny	:)	02:52
lcuk	which busstop does it work from?	02:52
AStorm	KotCzarny: !!!	02:52
AStorm	:D:D:D	02:52
KotCzarny	Registered: 2008-03-02 01:38	02:52
KotCzarny	have you ever looked at garage.maemo.org ?	02:52
KotCzarny	:)	02:52
johnx	WormFood, usually the places where mine won't pick up an IP address from dhcp are places where it is close to out of range	02:53
AStorm	not for that	02:53
KotCzarny	:)	02:53
johnx	or where I'm getting lots of interference	02:53
KotCzarny	yeah, i just like to browse at random	02:53
WormFood	johnx, this is not even close to being out of range	02:53
KotCzarny	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/freeciv/	02:53
KotCzarny	who asked about freeciv?	02:53
AStorm	blah trans	02:53
AStorm	need locale and keymap	02:54
WormFood	lcuk, it works form some random bus stop in Shenzhen	02:54
WormFood	the one under the bridge	02:54
KotCzarny	astorm: maybe it has those too	02:54
WormFood	you know which one I'm talking about? ;)	02:54
lcuk	wicked - when im passing ill remember :D	02:54
AStorm	wrong country then	02:54
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WormFood	I set a static IP and it STILL won't connect	02:55
WormFood	route -n shows the right gateway	02:56
lcuk	ok, so you flashed your device then set about forcing it to get an ip on your specific router - no doubt you delved deep and tweaked something or other to check. i personally think if you reset to defaults, use encryption at home and forget about it being a problem you will have more luck	02:56
AStorm	check if interface is up	02:56
johnx	alright, can you ping the gateway?	02:56
AStorm	and has an ip set	02:56
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lcuk	tsince the busstop router is out of your control you cannot know that THEY didnt lock it down or disable ip	02:56
lopz	re	02:56
WormFood	yup, ping the gateway just fine	02:56
WormFood	lcuk, that is NOT a solution	02:57
johnx	from the N800? can you ping google from the N800?	02:57
WormFood	I did not buy this to use at home	02:57
WormFood	resolv.conf is not getting set properly now	02:57
lcuk	ok - lets move this foreward - at home you can get it to work and save details in its connection. out roaming - take 2 devices. check if both of them connect and get ips	02:58
johnx	WormFood, the tablet uses dnsmasq for DNS	02:58
WormFood	so, no, I can't ping google from their dns name	02:58
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WormFood	lcuk, yes, my laptop connects, the N800 does not	02:58
AStorm	WormFood: want dns addr?	02:58
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AStorm	ya, udhcp suckage	02:59
WormFood	I can ping my server on the internet when I use the IP address	02:59
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WormFood	DNS will not resolve	02:59
lcuk	set DNS to router then as well	02:59
johnx	WormFood, cat /tmp/resolv.conf.wlan0 and tell me if it is correct	02:59
Jsn0327	does anyone know if there is a smb file share browser for os2008?	03:00
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KotCzarny	yes	03:00
johnx	Jsn0327, it's built in, but it can't access password protected shares	03:00
Jsn0327	hmm	03:00
lcuk	bss aackwards	03:00
AStorm	blah	03:00
Jsn0327	is there a add-on for the password protected shares?	03:00
WormFood	if I edit /etc/resolv.conf, it works	03:01
AStorm	nio, it's a bug	03:01
Jsn0327	or another app to access them?	03:01
AStorm	Jsn0327: no	03:01
johnx	WormFood, is the DNS set in /tmp/resolv.conf.wlan0 correct?	03:01
AStorm	it's buggy	03:01
WormFood	johnx, it is blank	03:01
WormFood	the file exists, it is just empty	03:01
lcuk	astorm - i thought you could do some magic and make a symlink	03:01
* lcuk waves his hands about a bit		03:02
johnx	alright, and you set the correct DNS in the GUI of course?	03:02
WormFood	I didn't see any dns setting in the gui	03:02
AStorm	lcuk: talking about smb?	03:02
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johnx	WormFood, aaaaah	03:02
lcuk	probably	03:02
johnx	I'll need to dig it up for you, since I just use dhcp here	03:02
johnx	gimme a sec	03:02
WormFood	looking for it again	03:03
WormFood	maybe I overlooked it	03:03
lcuk	its the advanced button on the last page	03:03
lcuk	i think	03:03
lcuk	connection wizard	03:03
WormFood	awww fuck! I overlooked it	03:03
WormFood	because when I go to edit it, it moves the dns off the page	03:03
KotCzarny	hehe	03:03
* lcuk thinks back to his "simple approach"		03:03
WormFood	they killed dns, those fuckin' bastards!	03:03
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KotCzarny	:)	03:03
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WormFood	ok, now I can surf the web with a static IP	03:04
WormFood	BUT THAT STILL DOES NOT SOVE THE PROBLEM	03:04
johnx	yeah but it PROVES THE HARDWARE ISN"T BROKEN	03:05
WormFood	how the fuck do I get dhcp to work now?	03:05
AStorm	KotCzarny: where do i get pl regional settings?	03:05
WormFood	I know the hardware isn't broken	03:05
GeneralAntilles	Haha, thank you, johnx. <_<	03:05
lcuk	when you have another ap to connect to just try and keep it simple and it may be configured to allow dhcp :)	03:05
lcuk	i have one connection thats static and one fixed - i never bothered to check why or diagnose i just got on with using them	03:05
lcuk	static + dynamic..	03:06
KotCzarny	http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/02/06/polish-locale-for-os2008/	03:06
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KotCzarny	1st link in google	03:06
* AStorm is almost asleep		03:07
WormFood	this is fuckin' crazy	03:07
WormFood	I run "udhcpc -i wlan0" and I get "Sending discover..." a few times, then....	03:08
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* johnx is in suspense...		03:08
KotCzarny	wormfood: tcpdump	03:08
KotCzarny	:P)	03:08
WormFood	lease failed:	03:08
WormFood	zeroconf: address selected is 169.254.33.52	03:08
KotCzarny	yah.	03:08
AStorm	KotCzarny: you fail, it's udp	03:09
KotCzarny	zeroconf sux.	03:09
WormFood	another zeroconf line	03:09
KotCzarny	astorm: so what? udp is sniffable too	03:09
WormFood	then "bogus packet, options field is too long"	03:09
AStorm	but not with tcpdump	03:09
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AStorm	ya, udhcp breakage	03:09
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AStorm	you need a better dhcp client	03:09
KotCzarny	astorm: i have debugged dhcp with tcpdump	03:10
KotCzarny	many times	03:10
KotCzarny	anyway, have you looked at the link?	03:10
AStorm	it mishandles DHCPNAKs	03:10
AStorm	looking...	03:10
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WormFood	so it is clear to me, that we need a "new" dhcp client on the n800 to make it work	03:11
KotCzarny	just compile/install it	03:12
KotCzarny	and modify scripts	03:12
lcuk	how come it works on mine though?	03:12
KotCzarny	or just name it udhcpc	03:12
KotCzarny	lcuk: your dhcpd behaves	03:12
KotCzarny	;)	03:12
johnx	hmm...I wonder which one is not following spec, his WTR54G or udhcpc	03:13
KotCzarny	i bet on wtr	03:14
KotCzarny	:)	03:14
johnx	yeah, linksys has made some truly craptastic firmware through the years	03:14
WormFood	maybe I should trade my N800 for one of these http://www.pmptoday.com/2008/01/07/pmpphone-from-somewhere-most-likely-china-looks-like-upmc-has-two-cameras/	03:14
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WormFood	johnx, I don't even have my router with me	03:15
WormFood	I'm using a "TP-LINK" router right now	03:15
johnx	ah	03:16
AStorm	KotCzarny: now i need a ukeyboard layout for de keyboard	03:16
AStorm	:)	03:16
KotCzarny	looks like a n800 copy	03:16
KotCzarny	:>	03:16
WormFood	Like I said...if I will be somewhere for a few hours or more, I can't get an IP address	03:16
WormFood	if I'm just passing through for a few minutes, it gets an IP just fine	03:16
WormFood	it is infuriating!	03:16
AStorm	WormFood: these are junk	03:16
KotCzarny	wormfood: it's open source, it's fixable	03:16
AStorm	non-linux?	03:17
WormFood	I swear I'm about ready to slam this piece of shit on the floor, and crush it under the heel of my foot	03:17
AStorm	WormFood: find a dhclient package	03:17
GeneralAntilles	Trade it, please, WormFood. :)	03:17
AStorm	then hack things to use that	03:17
lcuk	WormFood, spare your 800 - mail it to me - ill pay postage	03:17
KotCzarny	hehe	03:17
johnx	WormFood, want me to try and help you work around it?	03:17
WormFood	johnx, only if it really works and gets an IP address from the dhcp server	03:18
WormFood	I don't want a "set a static IP solution"	03:18
AStorm	WormFood: sw problem	03:18
Tama^2	I do not get why people would be willing to provide assistance when such attitude is displayed	03:18
AStorm	as I said	03:18
johnx	are you willing to test some stuff then, even though I'm not sure this will work? and are you willing to not SHOUT if it doesn't work?	03:18
AStorm	we need a dhclient	03:18
lcuk	actually, WormFood you might be better getting a different device. you want dependable, reliable hardware which works everywhere in a random environment - good luck with your search	03:18
KotCzarny	iphone?	03:19
KotCzarny	;)	03:19
GeneralAntilles	Amen, Tama^2.	03:19
AStorm	From ISC DHCP package	03:19
WormFood	lcuk, this did work before, it just isn't working now....it makes no sense	03:19
KotCzarny	wormfood: because you fiddled with it	03:19
AStorm	WormFood: makes	03:19
lcuk	but you are using a crappy router and have options available to fix them without having to install anything	03:19
KotCzarny	reflash!	03:19
johnx	WormFood, I'm still giving this even odds that it's actually your router doing something funny	03:19
WormFood	johnx, I don't have time to test this now, I have to leave soon....but yes, I'm willing to test it and work with it	03:19
AStorm	after the lease is expired, router sends NAKs	03:19
AStorm	for the old address	03:20
WormFood	KotCzarny, no, it is not because I fiddled with it....I'm a user on this, not a hacker on this	03:20
lcuk	out of the box now without installing anything you have connected	03:20
AStorm	and udhcp chokes on these	03:20
KotCzarny	user is worse than hacker	03:20
WormFood	I have not done anything to make this not work	03:20
WormFood	I even reloaded the firmware	03:20
AStorm	WormFood: ya not reading	03:20
johnx	WormFood, I'm still giving this even odds that it's actually your router doing something funny...	03:20
AStorm	ignoring me or what?	03:20
WormFood	AStorm, there is no expired lease	03:20
lcuk	but you are a hacker anyway - you run kismit	03:20
AStorm	wirm: there is a stored lease of udhcp	03:21
WormFood	lcuk, yes, I'm a hacker...but I did not get the n800 to hack	03:21
AStorm	WormFood: ^	03:21
lcuk	then take it back and get an iphone	03:21
WormFood	AStorm, on a fresh firmware reload?	03:21
AStorm	you have to expire the lease and remove the connection	03:21
AStorm	WormFood: router	03:21
WormFood	I was never able to get an address from the router	03:22
AStorm	needs but a one bad connection	03:22
AStorm	udhcp will store it	03:22
WormFood	I reboot the router and it still does not get an IP	03:22
AStorm	too late	03:22
AStorm	first remove conn	03:22
WormFood	then how does that explain why it does not work with a random AP when I'm out and about?	03:22
AStorm	then flush the router	03:22
AStorm	then connect	03:22
AStorm	same reason	03:22
AStorm	tries an addr and gets a NAK	03:23
johnx	also different problems often have different causes	03:23
AStorm	happens with some routers which are dumb	03:23
WormFood	I seriously doubt my router is the root of the problem	03:23
AStorm	probably not	03:23
WormFood	ok, I deleted my connection, and I still can't get an IP	03:23
AStorm	udhcp brokenness is	03:23
KotCzarny	or both	03:24
KotCzarny	:)	03:24
lcuk	WormFood, is it at all possible that the routers you are connecting to are not giving out dhcp... or that they are private residential routers leaking data	03:24
WormFood	yes, I'm sure it is udhcp is broken	03:24
johnx	AStorm, is this a WONTFIX from the udhcpc guys?	03:24
AStorm	WormFood: and didn't flush sessions? Fail!	03:24
AStorm	johnx: who?	03:24
WormFood	lcuk, I guarantee the ones I'm having problems with are working and sending out dhcp info	03:24
AStorm	it has no devs afaicr	03:24
WormFood	because I connect with my laptop just fine	03:24
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johnx	AStorm, so you're saying udhcpc is unmaintained?	03:24
WormFood	my laptop and other devices connect just fine...but not the n800	03:24
WormFood	it appears that way johnx	03:25
AStorm	WormFood: and it uses Isc dhcp which only sends naks in nonauthoritative mode	03:25
AStorm	johnx: most likely	03:25
AStorm	or almost	03:25
AStorm	WormFood: I know the bug	03:25
* johnx goes off to see if anyone has patched this...		03:25
AStorm	it is the same on other machines	03:26
AStorm	johnx: gentoo doesn't have the patch...	03:26
AStorm	I guess no one has	03:26
AStorm	need dhclient	03:26
johnx	yeah...looking back I was probably running into this with my zaurus in 2004 or so...	03:26
johnx	it would be easier to wedge a new udhcpc in place rather than replace it with dhclient, though	03:27
AStorm	not much	03:27
WormFood	I don't ever remember my Zaurus having this type of problem	03:27
AStorm	just a few scripts to be tweaked afaicr	03:27
AStorm	WormFood: lucky	03:28
johnx	WormFood, which firmware did you use?	03:28
WormFood	now to be honest, I didn't try to use my Z everywhere	03:28
johnx	also keep in mind that I have been using my N800 all over the place and never ran into this problem	03:28
AStorm	it is fairly random	03:29
AStorm	you need to move a subnet	03:29
AStorm	that is, move froman unknown lease range	03:29
AStorm	unknown to the server	03:29
AStorm	then udhcp asks for it	03:29
AStorm	and gets NAKs correctly	03:30
johnx	AStorm, I'm seeing something relating to DHCPNAK in Debian's patch, but I'll have to look more thoroughly...	03:30
AStorm	but drops the packets it they have some opions	03:30
AStorm	... :L	03:30
AStorm	:)	03:30
AStorm	options, even	03:31
AStorm	e.g. if it sends proper subnet data	03:31
AStorm	(dhcp std. doesn't specify that and doesn't forbid)	03:31
KotCzarny	mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/dhclient.gz	03:32
KotCzarny	:)	03:32
AStorm	hehe	03:33
AStorm	404	03:33
AStorm	and make a deb	03:33
KotCzarny	404?	03:34
KotCzarny	this cannot be	03:35
KotCzarny	ahm.	03:35
KotCzarny	mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/dhclient.gz	03:35
KotCzarny	sorry :)	03:35
AStorm	haha	03:35
AStorm	bad mime types	03:35
AStorm	:P	03:35
Proteous	bad mime, bad mime!	03:36
AStorm	yeah, killer mimes	03:36
lcuk	its not mime, its yours	03:36
Proteous	there's no mime like no mimes	03:36
KotCzarny	text/plain, interesting	03:37
lcuk	WARNING: mime field.	03:37
Proteous	heh	03:38
AStorm	lolä	03:38
KotCzarny	but i believe it's because no other extension other than .gz	03:38
AStorm	reminds me of a dexter's lab	03:38
Proteous	text/plain is not interesting at all, if fact it couldn't get any more boring	03:38
AStorm	with mimes	03:38
Proteous	it is a maximum boringness already	03:38
KotCzarny	yup. adding .exe.gz made it proper	03:38
KotCzarny	hehe	03:38
WormFood	ok, I need to go now. thanks for your help guys...I'll be back later	03:38
AStorm	application/octet-stream is more boring	03:39
johnx	sure, just remember to leave the CAPS at home. :P	03:39
KotCzarny	wormfood: get your dhclient.gz with you!	03:39
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AStorm	KotCzarny: make it a deb	03:39
johnx	I wonder if there is a way to hack around this with udhcpc by deleting the old lease if it and recalling udhcpc automatically if it fails...	03:40
johnx	s/if it a/if it gets a DHCPNAK a/g	03:41
infobot	johnx meant: I wonder if there is a way to hack around this with udhcpc by deleting the old lease if it gets a DHCPNAK and recalling udhcpc automatically if it fails...	03:41
AStorm	can't find the lease :P	03:41
johnx	I found the scripts it calls on a nak and on lease fail at least...	03:41
AStorm	it keeps them... somewhere	03:41
johnx	it should keep the lease in var I would think...	03:41
GeneralAntilles	Talk about investing a lot of time in a bad attitude. :\	03:41
AStorm	brb	03:42
johnx	GeneralAntilles, actually this has probably caused me problems at public access points, but I always figured I was close to out of range...	03:42
jott	johnx: the source is with you! it sourrounds us and penetrates us! :)	03:42
johnx	jott, with any luck I can just slap a quick fix in udhcpc.leasefail and all it done. :D	03:43
AStorm	no	03:43
KotCzarny	johnx: ga is a troll with a bad attitude himself	03:43
KotCzarny	:>	03:43
AStorm	the bug is in the client	03:43
AStorm	you can at most hack nit around	03:43
johnx	AStorm, yeah, but if I have udhcpc.leasefail delete the old lease and call udhcpc again	03:43
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johnx	not really a fix admittedly, but it should work for my purposes	03:44
jott	hehe infinite recursion? :)	03:44
WormFood	anything that makes it actually work would be acceptable	03:45
johnx	eh...I can just check for that in the script	03:45
WormFood	this problem affects a LOT of people	03:45
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AStorm	where is the file?	03:47
* KotCzarny finds having nails is usefull with IT		03:48
johnx	I don't know... O_o	03:48
AStorm	getting the bug here reliably	03:48
AStorm	vs my router	03:48
johnx	ah, good	03:48
AStorm	and not vs my laptop (isc dhcp)	03:48
KotCzarny	astorm: did dhclient worked?	03:49
AStorm	checking	03:49
KotCzarny	it may be missing some scripts	03:49
KotCzarny	also watch out	03:51
KotCzarny	resolv.conf points to localhost	03:51
KotCzarny	probably for dnsmasq	03:51
KotCzarny	:)	03:51
AStorm	you tried to root me	03:52
AStorm	I'll kill,you now	03:52
KotCzarny	nah	03:52
KotCzarny	just remembered default dhclient behaviour	03:52
KotCzarny	:)	03:52
AStorm	hehe	03:53
KotCzarny	otoh udhcpc will overwrite them too	03:54
KotCzarny	so it's not a big deal	03:54
KotCzarny	:)	03:54
AStorm	heh	03:54
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AStorm	have to tgest it again	03:56
* KotCzarny sucks maps		03:56
AStorm	blah!	03:57
AStorm	can'tg grab proper dhclient then	03:57
AStorm	wait a while	03:57
KotCzarny	mm?	03:58
KotCzarny	wget	03:58
KotCzarny	:)	03:58
AStorm	no worky	03:58
KotCzarny	then it's not a client problem?	03:59
AStorm	server	03:59
KotCzarny	mine?	04:00
AStorm	can't connect :P	04:00
AStorm	too much load now	04:00
KotCzarny	i'll stop maemo-maddness	04:00
AStorm	use mapdownloader next time	04:00
KotCzarny	now	04:00
AStorm	no cpu rape that way	04:00
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KotCzarny	do they use same format?	04:00
AStorm	grabbed	04:01
lcuk	heh - this kind of bandwidth problem is why i would prefer a remote server	04:01
AStorm	KotCzarny: ya, same libs	04:02
KotCzarny	libs?	04:02
WorkingOnWise	anyone know how much space abiword takes with all its dependencise?	04:02
KotCzarny	wow: much	04:02
KotCzarny	mostly because of gnome deps	04:03
WorkingOnWise	over 30?	04:03
* KotCzarny shrugs		04:03
WorkingOnWise	gnome?	04:03
WorkingOnWise	omg	04:03
WorkingOnWise	it's gotta be huge	04:03
KotCzarny	not all of them of course	04:03
KotCzarny	~4-7	04:03
lcuk	WorkingOnWise, i think there is a light version from the indt people but im not sure of its stability	04:03
jott	who cares about 30mb? :P	04:03
GeneralAntilles	People booting from the internal flash. :P	04:03
WorkingOnWise	lol...until I get my 8gb SDHC, I do	04:03
WorkingOnWise	yup	04:03
AStorm	hmm, wrong	04:04
WorkingOnWise	where can I find a n00b worthy howto on getting ext3 suppoer from boot? I want to use ext3 as the fs on mt sd card when I clone.	04:05
WorkingOnWise	support	04:05
jott	its already in the initfs	04:05
WorkingOnWise	it is?	04:05
KotCzarny	yup	04:05
KotCzarny	if you copy them to /lib/modules you can even modprobe them	04:05
WorkingOnWise	I formated my 1gb sd as ext3 and the N800 on OS208 says its corrupt	04:06
KotCzarny	leave first partition as vfat	04:06
WorkingOnWise	really?	04:06
jott	just a small dummy partition	04:06
KotCzarny	or just modify mmc-mount to support ext3	04:06
KotCzarny	:)	04:06
jott	yeah saves trouble	04:06
WorkingOnWise	can it be really small?	04:06
KotCzarny	yup	04:06
WorkingOnWise	just so its there?	04:06
KotCzarny	anything will do	04:06
AStorm	mapdownloader is bad :P	04:06
lcuk	yer, just a couple of hundred mb ;)	04:07
AStorm	KotCzarny: it does	04:07
WorkingOnWise	that's a simple solution....	04:07
WorkingOnWise	I was thinkin a couple kb's	04:07
AStorm	mmc-mount uses auto fs type	04:07
jott	kb/mb/gb all the same nowadays :)	04:07
lcuk	smallest managable size - ignore the value i gave	04:07
WorkingOnWise	kewl....	04:08
WorkingOnWise	will that trick allow me to boot off an ext3 sd card?	04:10
jott	yes	04:10
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WorkingOnWise	sweet	04:10
jott	just use fanoush modified initfs	04:10
jott	and add the right partition	04:10
WorkingOnWise	already got it bookmarked...:)	04:10
WorkingOnWise	the "right" partition?	04:10
jott	well the /dev/mmcblk[01]p2 not the p1 as thats the dummy vfat one ;)	04:11
johnx	AStorm, I honestly can't find where udhcpc puts its lease O_o	04:11
jott	memory? :)	04:12
lcuk	"i've got it narrowed down to somewhere within my 810"	04:12
lcuk	"i kno its not in the bathroom cos i looked there"	04:12
GeneralAntilles	gj, lcuk.	04:13
KotCzarny	johnx: have you looked into /etc/udhcpc ?	04:13
KotCzarny	:>	04:13
johnx	KotCzarny, yeah, but no lease or mention of it there	04:14
KotCzarny	maybe it's just sends it over dbus	04:14
KotCzarny	fire&forget	04:15
KotCzarny	:)	04:15
johnx	anyways, I'll poke at this later	04:16
johnx	there seems to be a way to make it forget its lease by giving it SIGUSR2	04:17
johnx	so maybe the hack-around will just do something with that...	04:17
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jott	johnx: why not patch the source? :)	04:19
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WorkingOnWise	johnx, got a sec?	04:23
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johnx	I have a couple minutes	04:27
johnx	talk fast :)	04:27
johnx	WorkingOnWise, ping?	04:28
* jott hits the chess clock button		04:28
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johnx	sorry, WorkingOnWise. I need to head out for now	04:30
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johnx	I'll be back on in several hours	04:30
ryoohki_	what is the direct link to os2008? my firefox download keeps failing half way and won't restart. i want to use wget	04:31
KotCzarny	get properties	04:31
KotCzarny	in the dl dialog	04:31
KotCzarny	in firefox	04:31
KotCzarny	it's there	04:31
lopz	bye	04:31
KotCzarny	but i think you need cookie too	04:32
KotCzarny	:)	04:32
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ryoohki_	KotCzarny: yes i knew that but the cookies is the problem	04:34
KotCzarny	then why do you asked about direct link?	04:34
jott	wget supports cookies and referer modification...	04:36
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KotCzarny	http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sys/615422336.html	04:50
KotCzarny	anyone wants a free sgi?	04:51
KotCzarny	:>	04:51
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lcuk	regarding the map discussion i caught the tail end of earlier - do we know the format of the map data included in 810 - can we use it to pre-initialize maemo without having to re-download it all?	04:58
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WorkingOnWise	KotCzarny: I'm not too up on SG, bacause I never could get my hands on one....would they make good media center machines? Playing videos, music, ripping, converting movies to various formats?	05:04
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KotCzarny	erm	05:05
KotCzarny	nope	05:05
KotCzarny	:)	05:05
KotCzarny	they're kinda old by now	05:05
WorkingOnWise	:(	05:05
WorkingOnWise	they look so geek shiek	05:05
KotCzarny	in fact nice/quiet tablet will do you better	05:05
WorkingOnWise	for converting?	05:05
KotCzarny	yup	05:06
WorkingOnWise	u dont mean the N800/810's do you?	05:06
KotCzarny	more like pentium-m based tablet	05:06
WorkingOnWise	lol..ok...	05:06
KotCzarny	or coreduo	05:06
WorkingOnWise	so what ae the SGI's good for today? other that a noth in the geek belt	05:07
WorkingOnWise	notch	05:07
KotCzarny	education?	05:07
KotCzarny	:)	05:07
pupnik	http://www.internettablettalk.com/2008/03/11/nokia-n810-internet-tablet-price-drop-down-by-90/ Nokia N810 down to $331.49 with coupon (USA!)	05:08
WorkingOnWise	AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA	05:08
KotCzarny	how one gets a coupon?	05:08
WorkingOnWise	I coulda sold the wife on that!	05:08
WorkingOnWise	I think I like the 800 better	05:08
WorkingOnWise	so I'll live	05:08
KotCzarny	me too	05:08
WorkingOnWise	I like the cam and the dual sd's	05:09
WorkingOnWise	is there an ap to modify the color quality on the N800?	05:09
KotCzarny	ah. included in the post	05:09
KotCzarny	:)	05:09
KotCzarny	all those price reductions look like a sale	05:10
KotCzarny	:)	05:10
elb	for that "cam" you like?	05:12
elb	I don't think so, they all seem to have the same problems and I see nothing but complaints ;-)	05:12
elb	(the 810 is the same)	05:12
WorkingOnWise	are they all too yellow?	05:13
elb	I believe so, yes	05:13
elb	I know mine is	05:13
WorkingOnWise	lol...yeah, for the cam I like	05:13
elb	and noisy as hell	05:13
WorkingOnWise	i like being able to turn it	05:13
WorkingOnWise	yeah it is	05:13
WorkingOnWise	but, for the purpose, it's good	05:13
WorkingOnWise	not great	05:13
KotCzarny	elb: i believe nice motionblur could take care of some noise	05:14
KotCzarny	:)	05:14
elb	I'm not sure what its purpose is	05:14
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elb	I vew the webcam as a gimmick	05:14
KotCzarny	'better to have than not to' ?	05:14
elb	like the cameras in phones ... people who are easily dazzled by shiny objects are that much more impressed	05:14
WorkingOnWise	it would be nice if it were a 2MPixel	05:14
WorkingOnWise	lol...	05:14
KotCzarny	wow: not really	05:14
KotCzarny	bandwidth would kill it	05:14
KotCzarny	:)	05:14
KotCzarny	right now at vga it's 4fps	05:15
WorkingOnWise	I like the cam on my krzr k1	05:15
KotCzarny	:)	05:15
lcuk	like bandwidth kills xMP phonecams	05:15
lcuk	and it prevents digital cameras from working	05:15
KotCzarny	:)	05:15
WorkingOnWise	it foule be nice to have the highmp and drop it down for video over the net	05:16
WorkingOnWise	fould=would	05:16
elb	you likely couldn't do 2MP at 15fps or whatever the current camera provides	05:16
KotCzarny	lcuk: but i'm saying even now cam slowness can produce distorted shots	05:16
elb	KotCzarny: that's almost certainly a camera problem, not a bandwidth problem	05:16
elb	although I suppose it's possible that the processor itself reads the CCD	05:16
KotCzarny	:)	05:16
WorkingOnWise	yeah. gotta be very very still...it is useless for stills	05:16
elb	lord knows I wouldn't design it that way	05:16
KotCzarny	maybe it's connected via gpios	05:17
KotCzarny	;)	05:17
lcuk	i wouldnt design it - i would pick one from the shelf which just worked - it comes down to linux being black sheep - why can the other n series devices have better?	05:17
WorkingOnWise	if i find a broke one on ebay I'm gonna tear it apart and see what can be hacked inside	05:17
elb	well, there's always a question of whether the other n-series device cameras can be reasonably fitted	05:18
WorkingOnWise	better?	05:18
elb	particularly with embedded processors, you never know what's processor-side and what's device-side	05:18
lcuk	what we gain in configurability we lose in hardware quality - gps = FAIL camera = FAIL	05:18
lcuk	screen = Hello!	05:18
elb	the gps is fine	05:18
WorkingOnWise	u mean better cam? or OS?	05:18
elb	people cry like babies that theirs suck	05:18
KotCzarny	maybe they had some spares in warehouse..	05:18
elb	but mine is fast and accurate ;-)	05:18
elb	it compares reasonably with my Garmin	05:18
ryoohki_	how do you make videos with the pad? the "camera" app only takes pictures	05:18
lcuk	it is great and fast and accurate IF I CAN GET A LOCK!	05:19
elb	yeah, see, I haven't had that problem	05:19
lcuk	i use it so infrequently that ive probably rebooted in between using it	05:19
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elb	mine locks from cold in <2m	05:19
lcuk	but i have just had to buy missus a map	05:19
lcuk	because when she needed it it failed	05:19
elb	that said, I use my Garmin	05:19
elb	the mapper application they want me to pay money for sucks, and maemo mapper requires that I've fetched maps ahead of time	05:20
Italodance	HI	05:20
WorkingOnWise	what about google map?	05:20
KotCzarny	elb: sd cards are cheap	05:20
KotCzarny	:)	05:20
lcuk	we werent bothered about play by play talking map - just knowing where you are so you can rectify self would have sufficed	05:20
lcuk	google map == only when connected	05:20
elb	that's what I use the garmin for	05:20
ryoohki_	is there an app to use the tablet as a video camera?	05:20
elb	mine has only major roads on it	05:20
elb	it can have area maps downloaded ... but not from Linux	05:21
lcuk	but we bought 810 because it had gps	05:21
lcuk	(partly - it was mainly drool)	05:21
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WorkingOnWise	elb: u said yours locks in <2 min in cold. How cold? the *00 or 810?	05:25
WorkingOnWise	800	05:25
elb	the 800 has no GPS, so ... the 810	05:26
KotCzarny	it could be bt gps	05:26
elb	or are you confused by what we mean by "lock"?	05:26
elb	I mean that the GPS typically collects enough satellite data to locate itself in <2m, even when it has not had a recent satellite fix	05:27
KotCzarny	elb: most people are not that lucky	05:27
KotCzarny	:>	05:27
elb	I keep hearing that	05:27
KotCzarny	maybe you have good satellite exposure?	05:27
lcuk	elb are you in a city?	05:27
lcuk	or on a hilltop?	05:27
elb	HAH	05:28
elb	I'm in Indiana, there ARE no hills ;-)	05:28
elb	I'm in a city, but not a very "tall" city	05:28
lcuk	but are there big buildings and rf noise and stuff	05:28
elb	RF noise is plentiful	05:28
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elb	I get the impression that Europeans tend to have a dismal experience, specifically	05:28
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lcuk	i wonder if thats because of the defaults in the driver	05:29
lcuk	i have probs in england	05:29
elb	I'm not sure how sensitive GPS is to latitude	05:29
lcuk	shouldnt be at all	05:29
elb	the satellites will be physically farther away in northern latitudes	05:29
lcuk	theres 21 sats out there	05:29
lcuk	spinning the earth	05:29
elb	yes, but the earth is non-spherical	05:30
elb	for some purposes, significantly non-spherical	05:30
elb	I don't know about GPS purposes	05:30
lcuk	but....and this is the killer...other gps devies dont have a problem...	05:30
elb	yeah, but that's 100% irrelevant	05:31
elb	if the 810's antenna is marginal, for example, and that distance does matter	05:31
KotCzarny	nokia is european company	05:31
KotCzarny	so they probably tested it there	05:31
KotCzarny	:>	05:31
elb	yes, but that doesn't say much about the software defaults	05:31
lcuk	elb - i agree - its a design flaw. hopefully a partial plaster can be applied to the driver to stop it being annoying - but they fucked up	05:32
KotCzarny	but spherically wise..	05:32
KotCzarny	:)	05:32
elb	sure, but it does work in Europe	05:32
elb	and I'm not even certain there's a correlation	05:32
elb	I just notice that most of the complaints come from Europeans, whereas I've seen several Americans (both central and north) note that they have no problems)	05:33
* lcuk is from england		05:33
elb	I bring up the north/south point only because most central and north americans are south of most Europeans	05:33
lcuk	normally stands in line politely	05:33
elb	I'm including England in "Europe" for this purpose	05:33
elb	island or no ;-)	05:34
lcuk	"hey, look at my cool nokia - its got gps" ....15 minutes later... "it does connect eventually" ...crickets... "look, its got a funky led in the corner"	05:34
lcuk	it takes away the coolness :(	05:34
elb	yeah, I don't even show people the GPS	05:34
KotCzarny	'hey, look at my wintec, it takes lock in 2s'	05:34
KotCzarny	:)	05:34
elb	the mapping applications are too insufficient	05:35
elb	no GPS takes a lock in less than about 45s from cold	05:35
elb	(warm locks are an entirely different matter)	05:35
lcuk	agreed entirely	05:35
KotCzarny	still 810 is slow	05:35
KotCzarny	even on warm locks	05:35
elb	well, let me take that back -- assisted GPS can	05:35
Navi	On the N810?	05:35
elb	yeah, my 810's warm locks seem to be 20-30s	05:36
KotCzarny	3. Time to First Fix (TTFF) : < Average 3.5/34 sec. (Hot/Cold start)	05:36
KotCzarny	http://www.semsons.com/wiwbmu3gpsre2.html	05:36
elb	I'm having a doubt	05:36
elb	that second figure should be closer to 45s, and that's dictated by the GPS protocol	05:36
Navi	Hide a bluetooth gps receiver in your pocket	05:36
KotCzarny	it's quite a recent product	05:36
elb	recent product doesn't matter	05:37
elb	the actual data streams from the satellites are only so fast	05:37
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lcuk	1500bps repeated every 30sec	05:37
KotCzarny	then the best case is 30s ?	05:37
elb	30s assumes that every single satellite is just starting its stream the instant you start listening	05:38
lcuk	sorry - 1500 bits in 30 seconds repeated	05:38
lcuk	....Navigation Message at 50 bit/s giving the time-of-day.....). The messages are sent in frames, each taking 30 seconds to transmit 1500 bits.	05:39
KotCzarny	so they pause? or receiver has to wait for 'start of a frame' ?	05:39
elb	34s might be reasonable on a hilltop, with clear view of the low horizon all around	05:39
lcuk	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System	05:39
KotCzarny	still better than 30min on 810	05:39
KotCzarny	:>	05:39
elb	you have to find at least four satellites for a 3D fix, and hear an entire frame from each	05:39
lcuk	the data from a frame is valid for 2 hours	05:39
lcuk	you only have to download it if its out of date	05:40
lcuk	the almanac however is sent over MULTIPLE frames - to get entire almanac in best conditions is 12.5 minutes	05:40
lcuk	Each frame contains 1/25th of the almanac,	05:41
elb	yeah, that only matters when you have no idea where you are, or it's been a LONG time since your last lock	05:41
elb	(I'm not sure how long)	05:41
lcuk	no, the almanac is basically longterm	05:41
KotCzarny	so it can be in firmware?	05:42
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lcuk	but to me it feels like this is getting updated quite often - i wonder if you left it locking ALL day over a clear area whether it would get ALL available data for all visible sats	05:42
elb	not firmware ... but long-term storage	05:42
lcuk	but sats die and are replaced	05:42
elb	you don't have to see all satellites to get the almanac for all satellites	05:43
lcuk	even when locked - kinda give it time to see every possible available sat and get all data from it over the course of a day	05:43
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lcuk	The almanac consists of coarse orbit and status information for each satellite in the constellation,	05:43
elb	and then you can throw WAAS into the mix	05:43
elb	I'm not sure if the 810 can use it or not	05:44
lcuk	n older hardware, lack of an almanac in a new receiver would cause long delays before providing a valid position, because the search for each satellite was a slow process.	05:44
lcuk	you are right elb: each satellite transmits only its own ephemeris, but transmits an almanac for all satellites.	05:44
KotCzarny	sounds like a 810 case	05:44
KotCzarny	:>	05:45
lcuk	reading that doe	05:45
lcuk	s	05:45
lcuk	what OS do bluetooth gps devices run?	05:46
KotCzarny	not linux	05:47
KotCzarny	for sure	05:47
KotCzarny	:)	05:47
GeneralAntilles	Vista.	05:48
lcuk	i would hate to have to get bt gps device for the car, but its looking likely. heh gen	05:48
lcuk	can you use them to store up tripdata and squirt once the 810 connects?	05:49
GeneralAntilles	Woo N800	05:49
lcuk	N800 + shit loads of money	05:49
GeneralAntilles	Depends on the device.	05:49
KotCzarny	yup	05:49
GeneralAntilles	i-blue 747 stores points	05:49
KotCzarny	lcuk, that wintec has 128k waypoints	05:49
GeneralAntilles	You'd have to setup the software to dump it when it connects, though.	05:49
GeneralAntilles	Actually, it may only dump over USB	05:49
GeneralAntilles	not sure.	05:50
GeneralAntilles	BT GPS costs $50	05:50
GeneralAntilles	Still cheaper than an N810. :P	05:50
lcuk	yer i know - i would wire it in so it never needs charging	05:50
KotCzarny	lcuk: http://www.zen35309.zen.co.uk/gps/	05:50
KotCzarny	:)	05:50
lcuk	nice!	05:52
lcuk	right, i think i need to go to bed	05:55
KotCzarny	go go	05:55
KotCzarny	:)	05:55
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m-c	huh - it just occurred to me to run apache on my desktop so I could stream content to my N800	06:06
KotCzarny	:)	06:06
m-c	but streaming high def video doesn't work so well	06:07
KotCzarny	;)	06:07
GeneralAntilles	mediautils.garage.maemo.org	06:07
m-c	any idea what the maximum resolution is for video processing?	06:07
GeneralAntilles	Depends on bitrate and "action".	06:07
KotCzarny	400 for width is a good compromise	06:08
GeneralAntilles	For relatively sedate stuff, 5xx horizontal with around 600-1000Kbps bitrate works very well for me	06:08
GeneralAntilles	with just a touch of framedrop in the high-action stuff.	06:08
GeneralAntilles	For guaranteed perfect playback, 400x240 (fit whichever dimension is hit a limit first) at around 800-1400Kbps works very well.	06:08
GeneralAntilles	(MPEG4 video and MP3 audio)	06:09
m-c	thanks - seems like you have those numbers well memorized	06:09
GeneralAntilles	I've chattered them off . . . a lot.	06:09
GeneralAntilles	Oh, also, there's some overhead with streaming stuff	06:10
m-c	are there ways you can improve performance of video playback? running a different media player or shutting down something or any optimization?	06:10
GeneralAntilles	So stick to 400x240 for that	06:10
GeneralAntilles	5xx is for local playback.	06:10
GeneralAntilles	mplayer	06:10
GeneralAntilles	Install that	06:10
GeneralAntilles	But that's about as much as you can do.	06:10
m-c	Okay, thanks very much	06:10
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KotCzarny	hmm	06:16
KotCzarny	calibration is broken after screen rotation	06:17
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pppoe_dude	hello	06:21
pppoe_dude	i just installed gizmo, and i'm trying to get it to work on my nokia 770	06:21
pppoe_dude	i can call and the other side can hear me, but i can't hear them	06:22
pppoe_dude	i also tried echo calls etc.. any ideas?	06:22
GeneralAntilles	NAT issues	06:22
pppoe_dude	on my laptop tho, everything works fine	06:22
pppoe_dude	same router	06:22
GeneralAntilles	Are you port forwarding to the laptop?	06:23
pppoe_dude	hmmm	06:24
pppoe_dude	yes	06:24
pppoe_dude	i think this could be the problem	06:24
GeneralAntilles	There's your answer.	06:24
pppoe_dude	thanks	06:24
pppoe_dude	will try	06:24
pppoe_dude	sweey	06:25
pppoe_dude	sweet*	06:25
pppoe_dude	it works	06:25
GeneralAntilles	STUN should be able to get you through.	06:25
GeneralAntilles	No guarantees, though.	06:25
pppoe_dude	so it is technically possible to get gizmo working from public wifi?	06:25
GeneralAntilles	It should "just work", but I really haven't investigated thoroughly.	06:26
pppoe_dude	pl	06:26
pppoe_dude	ok*	06:26
GeneralAntilles	So I'm not sure what all is involved.	06:26
GeneralAntilles	You may try google	06:26
pppoe_dude	so why is the party line offline?	06:26
pppoe_dude	i'm bored :(	06:26
GeneralAntilles	No need to search for anything specific to maemo.	06:26
pppoe_dude	nice thanks GeneralAntilles	06:27
GeneralAntilles	Sure	06:27
pppoe_dude	i've been looking for something like gizmo for ages	06:27
pppoe_dude	and now it works on my Nokia 770 :)	06:27
GeneralAntilles	Don't remember what the status is with rtcomm on the 770.	06:27
GeneralAntilles	But you may look into it.	06:27
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GeneralAntilles	Lighter weight than running the Gizmo application	06:28
GeneralAntilles	better integrated, too.	06:28
pppoe_dude	i wonder if it is safe to put it near my head for prolonged periods	06:28
pppoe_dude	GeneralAntilles, thanks will check it out	06:28
GeneralAntilles	No uranium in it. :P	06:28
pppoe_dude	there's still wifi tho :)	06:28
GeneralAntilles	2.4GHz	06:28
GeneralAntilles	and stupid low power	06:28
GeneralAntilles	wont do anything to you.	06:29
pppoe_dude	nice	06:29
KotCzarny	get headphones	06:29
KotCzarny	then	06:29
pppoe_dude	ya i think ill do that	06:29
KotCzarny	btw. you can set txpower to 10mW	06:29
pppoe_dude	or just use it anyway	06:29
KotCzarny	if you're afraid of wifi	06:29
KotCzarny	it's in advanced tab	06:29
pppoe_dude	KotCzarny, how do i do that?	06:29
pppoe_dude	ok	06:29
KotCzarny	when you configure your connection	06:30
pppoe_dude	i'm not really afraid of wifi	06:30
pppoe_dude	i mean, i do use a cell phone	06:30
pppoe_dude	which is probably worse than wifi	06:30
KotCzarny	and i think they put that option there because of iceland	06:30
KotCzarny	(in iceland allowed wifi power for devices is ~10mW)	06:31
pppoe_dude	KotCzarny, advanced tab where?	06:31
KotCzarny	when you configure your wifi connection	06:32
KotCzarny	next all the way till the end	06:32
KotCzarny	and there's 'advanced'	06:32
KotCzarny	and it's somewhere there	06:32
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pppoe_dude	KotCzarny, nice	06:33
pppoe_dude	found it\	06:33
KotCzarny	:)	06:33
pppoe_dude	it was 100mw	06:33
pppoe_dude	isn't that a lot?	06:33
KotCzarny	nope	06:33
KotCzarny	it's a 'max' anyway	06:33
KotCzarny	so if connection quality is good device will transmit less power anyway	06:33
pppoe_dude	ok	06:34
KotCzarny	(and i have to drop 'anyway')	06:34
GeneralAntilles	Normal	06:34
GeneralAntilles	10mw wont get you much range.	06:34
pppoe_dude	in my bedroom it's workiong ok	06:34
pppoe_dude	keeping in mind the router is in the same room	06:34
pppoe_dude	albeit on the other side	06:34
pppoe_dude	i like my 770	06:35
KotCzarny	what os?	06:36
pppoe_dude	2006	06:36
KotCzarny	if you're bored try 2007	06:36
KotCzarny	:>	06:36
pppoe_dude	should i upgrade?	06:36
pppoe_dude	ah	06:36
KotCzarny	nah	06:36
KotCzarny	if it's working for you	06:37
pppoe_dude	KotCzarny, what kinds of things will i notice?	06:37
KotCzarny	don't know	06:37
pppoe_dude	2006 is a little slow	06:37
KotCzarny	i have seen only 2008	06:37
pppoe_dude	but that's ok	06:37
KotCzarny	:)	06:37
pppoe_dude	i'd like to get n810	06:37
pppoe_dude	but i have no money :)	06:37
KotCzarny	:)	06:37
KotCzarny	get n800	06:37
pppoe_dude	maybe when i pay off my visa	06:37
pppoe_dude	the sliding keyboard looks nice	06:38
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pppoe_dude	i wanna call someone	06:39
KotCzarny	lol	06:41
pppoe_dude	bored	06:41
GeneralAntilles	I'd at least try OS2007HE and OS2008HE.	06:42
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I run OS2008HE on both my 770s.	06:43
GeneralAntilles	It's surprisingly quick.	06:43
pppoe_dude	nice	06:44
pppoe_dude	GeneralAntilles, doesn't crash?	06:44
pppoe_dude	do you think gizmo would work on it?	06:44
KotCzarny	you're the bored one	06:46
KotCzarny	:)	06:46
pppoe_dude	heh	06:46
* KotCzarny is having fun with maemo-maps		06:47
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GeneralAntilles	Not any worse than OS2006, pppoe_dude.	06:53
GeneralAntilles	At least, not as far as I can remember.	06:53
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GeneralAntilles	The upgrades are certainly worth any instability, anyway.	06:53
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m-c	heya, pppoe_dude, I know you from -offtopic -- you got a nokia 770 ?	07:03
pppoe_dude	m-c, yes a while ago :)	07:03
m-c	these tablets are a lot of fun	07:03
pppoe_dude	definitely	07:04
m-c	just now getting VoIP working? ah - a shame!	07:04
pppoe_dude	hehe	07:04
m-c	I love the cheap calling over wifi	07:04
pppoe_dude	it is defeinitely a lot fun	07:04
pppoe_dude	it is just like a phone ;)	07:04
KotCzarny	better	07:04
KotCzarny	:)	07:04
pppoe_dude	yes better	07:04
m-c	I am going to switch to my N800 as my primary phone when my cell contract runs out	07:04
pppoe_dude	:)	07:04
m-c	in one year	07:05
pppoe_dude	i wanna get an n800 or n810 when i have money	07:05
m-c	the n800 is a great bargain	07:05
pppoe_dude	i got my 770 for $150 CAD	07:05
m-c	but after seeing the maps in OS2008, I can see why a GPS would be nice, too	07:06
m-c	is that pre-USD-parity CAD? ;)	07:06
* KotCzarny got n800 for 150$		07:06
KotCzarny	:)	07:06
pppoe_dude	yes pre	07:06
pppoe_dude	LS	07:06
pppoe_dude	:S *	07:06
KotCzarny	this march	07:07
KotCzarny	;)	07:07
pppoe_dude	maybe i should have gotten an n800	07:07
pppoe_dude	and maybe i got ripped off	07:07
KotCzarny	:>	07:07
KotCzarny	you still have time	07:07
m-c	it's not much money, either way - and you'll find a use for two if you get a second one	07:08
KotCzarny	before n810 successor comes out	07:08
KotCzarny	yeah, multiplayer bt games	07:08
KotCzarny	:>	07:08
m-c	oh, man, that'd be neat	07:08
pppoe_dude	hmm	07:09
pppoe_dude	maybe i should get n800 then	07:09
m-c	probably repeating myself, but the Ur'Quan Master game package is like artwork on my N800. Way better than the PC original	07:09
pppoe_dude	where did you get it from KotCzarny ?	07:09
KotCzarny	second hand in nyc	07:10
m-c	CompUSA was going out of business and selling N800s at $225	07:10
m-c	I bought mine new at $300 with 2x 4GB memory	07:11
m-c	so, no matter what you choose, it's still pretty cheap	07:11
KotCzarny	yup	07:11
m-c	and a terrific bargain	07:11
KotCzarny	i wanted 770	07:11
KotCzarny	when they came out	07:11
KotCzarny	but never gathered to buy it	07:12
pppoe_dude	maybe ill wait a little	07:12
pppoe_dude	until i have a bit of extra money	07:12
m-c	So owning a N8x0 has given me this unhealthy desire to see wifi everywhere	07:14
KotCzarny	:>	07:15
m-c	I've just donated $500 to a charity that promotes creating nodes in Seattle, and I am thinking about setting up some mesh networks myself	07:15
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KotCzarny	:>	07:16
m-c	I am fascinated with the idea that we might all own these pocket communication devices that run on open Linux technologies.	07:17
m-c	hey, what type of wifi does the N800 have?	07:18
m-c	a/b/g ?	07:18
KotCzarny	bg	07:19
m-c	huh - I have a 802.11g access point, and the file transfer seems slow	07:19
m-c	I'll check the settings on the AP	07:19
m-c	thanks	07:20
m-c	Oh, sorry, one more question, how do I stop pop up windows with the Firefox browser?	07:20
m-c	oops, nm!	07:21
m-c	duh - it was so obvious I missed it. I must have looked in Settings three times, and did not see it	07:21
KotCzarny	:)	07:21
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Italodance	is there any gps for n800 os2008?	07:27
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pppoe_dude	m-c, that would be nice	07:29
pppoe_dude	omnipresent internet	07:30
Italodance	.exe files can work on n800?	07:32
m-c	Which side of the N800 device is the antenna?	07:33
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m-c	Italodance: no, I don't think so	07:34
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KotCzarny	m-c: http://picasaweb.google.com/thoughtfix/N800Opening	07:34
KotCzarny	more n800 pr0n	07:35
Italodance	m-c is there any gps for n800 os2008?	07:35
m-c	drool	07:35
Tama^2	any BT GPS should work with os2008	07:35
m-c	Italodance: not really - unless you configure the USB to host an external device	07:35
m-c	oh, right bluetooth	07:36
m-c	I forgot	07:36
Italodance	m-c tnx	07:36
m-c	yeah, and some cell phones publish the gps info through bluetooth too	07:36
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Italodance	m-c what's ur mplayer version?	07:39
m-c	I just use media player	07:39
Italodance	version?	07:39
m-c	dunno	07:40
Italodance	ok	07:40
Italodance	os2008 yes?	07:40
Italodance	anyway	07:40
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KotCzarny	http://picasaweb.google.com/thoughtfix/770Disassembly	07:44
KotCzarny	wow	07:45
KotCzarny	770 pr0n too	07:45
KotCzarny	:>	07:45
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doc\|home	!	07:48
doc\|home	awww, you owe me naked ladies :(	07:48
KotCzarny	me?	07:48
* doc\|home thinks you missed the joke :/		07:49
KotCzarny	probably	07:49
KotCzarny	:)	07:49
KotCzarny	http://picasaweb.google.com/thoughtfix/NokiaNseriesUnlockedSept272007/photo#5115343511397099362	07:49
KotCzarny	:)	07:49
doc\|home	o.O	07:50
doc\|home	b800 orgy sluts!	07:50
doc\|home	*n800	07:50
KotCzarny	gang.. view?	07:50
doc\|home	heh	07:52
pupnik	oh wow ZynAddSubFX is fun	07:52
KotCzarny	?	07:52
KotCzarny	what's that?	07:52
KotCzarny	:)	07:52
pupnik	software music synthesizer	07:52
KotCzarny	i see	07:52
pupnik	hehe @ tablet pron	07:53
* KotCzarny takes IT and goes to the toilet		07:53
KotCzarny	;)	07:53
pupnik	gotta love how compact they are	07:53
pupnik	compared to the tablets that pandora board is a monster	07:54
pupnik	(but who cares)	07:54
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* KotCzarny downloads pois		08:13
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jacky_	Anyone gives me a example pipeline to show how hantro4100dec element and hantro4200enc are used? Thanks	08:45
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Italodance	huh?	08:47
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jacky_	I want to used it to receive stream video from PC which is compressed in MPEG4. But I found that the elements that ffmpeg4_enc is not available in N800.Any help	08:52
GeneralAntilles	Just connect to an http stream using mplayer?	08:53
GeneralAntilles	Better yet: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/	08:54
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jacky_	No exactly. Using tcpserversink and tcpclientsrc these two elements	08:56
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Italodance	jacky ffmpeg4 is available with mplayer for n800	09:05
jacky_	Can I use it in gstreamer?	09:06
Italodance	strange https://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/multimedia/ all download sections are off:?	09:06
Italodance	jacky_ don't know and never try but u do!	09:07
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Italodance	https://maemo.org/downloads is down??????/	09:09
czr	maybe it's just shy.	09:09
GeneralAntilles	Works fine here.	09:09
Italodance	ok tnx	09:10
Tama^2	remove the s from https	09:12
Tama^2	and will be fine	09:12
koyote	man, i cannot believe some of the excuses on the 24 hour bug	09:12
koyote	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303	09:13
koyote	RESOURCE issues?!?!?	09:13
koyote	i have several pdas from the early 90s with far more limited resources that ca handle a 12/24 settings	09:13
Italodance	Tama^2 yes right	09:16
Italodance	but not yet ...try later	09:16
Italodance	here is my old problem https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3029 damn maemo	09:19
Italodance	i use proxy	09:19
GeneralAntilles	Obviously it's not as simple as you think it is, koyote, or it would already be fixed. ;)	09:22
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GeneralAntilles	Iran isn't a country they sell the device in.	09:23
GeneralAntilles	Why would they support it?	09:23
koyote	GeneralAntilles: nah, i don't think so	09:23
koyote	someone in the system made a poor decision and has gottne ego attached to defendng it with bogons	09:24
koyote	hard to back down from that.	09:24
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, no.	09:24
Italodance	GeneralAntilles ummm don't know but nokia has many official shops here	09:24
GeneralAntilles	Nokia != N800/N810	09:24
GeneralAntilles	Nokia sells phones all over the planet	09:24
Italodance	GeneralAntilles no	09:24
GeneralAntilles	Nokia DOES NOT sell N800s and N810s all over the planet.	09:25
Italodance	GeneralAntilles i bought mine from dubai	09:25
koyote	at the VERY least, cutting and pasting 2 locale files and making the 24 hour mods in them would take maybe 3 hours.	09:25
koyote	IF you were unfamiliar with the file format to begin with	09:25
pupnik	koyote: do you prefer a straight ncurses angband?	09:25
koyote	pupnik: honestly, i like either a full xaw of vanilla ncurses.	09:26
koyote	interchangeably.	09:26
pupnik	the window management wouldn't work well on the tablet	09:26
Italodance	GeneralAntilles i can use only proxy for their shit block and they are stupid..i bought my n800 about 400 usd	09:26
koyote	I'm not terribly comfortable with the deps on the current version.	09:26
pupnik	nor am i	09:27
GeneralAntilles	Why do you expect them to support you in a country that they don't sell the device in?	09:27
koyote	straight ncurses would be fine. tiles aren't really needed.	09:27
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pupnik	the nethack port is a huge piece of work - practically a whole new gui	09:27
Italodance	GeneralAntilles i am only one? what is their problem here?	09:27
koyote	pupnik: did you ever see the port of moria for the palm?	09:28
pupnik	nope	09:28
pupnik	good stuff?	09:28
koyote	it kept the keyboard commands, but put in simple command menus and a touch screen interface for movement	09:28
koyote	really simple.	09:28
koyote	http://roguelike-palm.sourceforge.net/kMoria/	09:28
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koyote	but ncurses with keyboard support would end up working for me, personally	09:30
AD-N770	koyote: same approach on nethack for maemo	09:30
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koyote	angband allows you to choose the old roguelike keymaps for lack of deicated number keys	09:30
koyote	dedicated	09:31
Italodance	GeneralAntilles do u know them?	09:31
GeneralAntilles	Who?	09:31
Italodance	maemo nokia staff... can u explain them about me?	09:32
pupnik	i'll try to whip up a deb right now	09:32
GeneralAntilles	Ha	09:32
GeneralAntilles	No	09:32
GeneralAntilles	That's way above the maemo guys, anyway.	09:32
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koyote	pupnik: okay. I'm about to reflash the n800 and get set to clone it so i can run off the 4gb sd card i have internally	09:33
Italodance	GeneralAntilles how can i solve my problem? what's ur opinion?	09:33
GeneralAntilles	Don't buy devices that are unsupported in your country.	09:33
GeneralAntilles	Or move or use a proxy.	09:34
koyote	it seems to be the most sensible route for me to get a full binutils/bash/emacs environment	09:34
Italodance	GeneralAntilles what about maemo staff?	09:34
koyote	Italodance: what, exactly, is the problem?	09:34
GeneralAntilles	They have nothing to do with distribution decisions.	09:34
Italodance	koyote read here https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3029	09:35
koyote	and this is verified as an issue with your internet route?	09:36
GeneralAntilles	Iran is unsupported.	09:36
Italodance	koyote i think maemo blocked here	09:36
czr	it's weird that IE/FF seem to work though	09:36
koyote	then you need a shell in another country.	09:37
czr	Italodance, you can download using the same network with IE/FF?	09:37
czr	or you mean "problem is available" as in that IE/FF also fail?	09:37
koyote	i think that it's a dumb decision in a "travel oriented business tool"	09:37
* czr agrees		09:37
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czr	but maybe it's an akamai-restriction	09:37
koyote	but it's not goin to get fixed by some random maemo hacker.	09:38
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koyote	czr: likely.	09:38
Italodance	czr IE/FF yes both don't work also my n800 am	09:38
czr	Italodance, ok	09:38
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Italodance	koyote then you need a shell in another country? really help? thank u	09:39
koyote	if you have a shell account in another country then you can wget whatever you need and scp it back to yourself	09:40
czr	assuming that using scp is legal in iran.	09:40
czr	it would assume not.	09:40
czr	I even.	09:40
Italodance	koyote i can use proxy here but hard sometimes working and sometimes NOT!	09:41
czr	what kind of proxy?	09:41
Italodance	ummm someone can let maemo knows this!	09:42
GeneralAntilles	They don't have any control over it.	09:42
Italodance	czr umm proxy websites like http://www.pro-xyy.com/	09:42
czr	figured.	09:43
czr	I appended the bugreport. I wouldn't hold my hopes high though.	09:44
czr	your best bet would be to get a foreign shell access somewhere and then use that to shuffle data	09:44
czr	or maybe a vhost where you could run your own tls/ssl-protected proxy	09:45
Italodance	czr thank u dear friend ....	09:45
czr	it's 90% likely that the issue won't be fixed. but it would be interesting to get a list of countries where maemo content is blocked because of akamai/other reasons.	09:46
czr	or 95% likely even.	09:46
Italodance	czr i know for syria too	09:46
czr	what about syria? also blocked?	09:46
czr	maemo repos or more generic connectivity blocking?	09:47
Italodance	look here https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2643#c2	09:47
Italodance	no sorry look here https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2237#c4	09:47
czr	Italodance, why did you create a new bug?	09:48
czr	why didn't you just comment 2237?	09:48
Italodance	czr yes i do now	09:48
Italodance	czr look here too : https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2939	09:48
czr	ok, tell you what, let me report the duplicates, ok?	09:49
Italodance	czr thANK U 1000 respect	09:50
czr	quim said that 2237 was 'wontfix' which means that maemo people cannot do anything about it	09:51
czr	it seems that the whole akamai thing is related to whole nokia, not just maemo	09:51
Italodance	czr yes totally nokia! but meamo is depends 100% to nokia or single?	09:52
koyote	what's the better of the howtos for cloning to sd card in os 2008?	09:52
GeneralAntilles	milhouse's	09:53
GeneralAntilles	It has a script that does it all for you.	09:53
czr	Italodance, maemo content distribution depends on nokia	09:54
Italodance	czr so for my problem i must contact to maemo or nokia anyway i mailed 3 messages to maemo different emails	09:55
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koyote	a script....	09:55
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Italodance	czr are u from finland?	09:56
GeneralAntilles	koyote, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631	09:57
czr	Italodance, I'm in finland.	09:59
pupnik	how do i start a xterminal app from menu? i can launch the xterm but not pass a binary to execute	10:00
czr	if I'd have free bandwidth I could setup a repo mirror	10:01
czr	unfortunately it's limited :-(	10:01
pupnik	koyote: i can give you an angband that installs and runs from xterm but it won't launch from menu	10:02
czr	Italodance, I marked 3029 and 2939 as duplicates for 2237. so follow 2237	10:03
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koyote	pupnik: awesome	10:03
czr	added also some commentaries. note however that bug 2237 is in 'wontfix' state which means that quim has decided there's nothing he will/can do at the moment.	10:03
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Italodance	czr oh...	10:04
jacky_	Is it possible to build gstreamer from source in maemo to gain the plugins that not inclued in N800? Thanks	10:05
Italodance	czr thank u again	10:06
pupnik	wait i found a way i think	10:06
czr	Italodance, np, hope that the situation will get rectified at some point, although I wouldn't bet on it.	10:06
Italodance	czr yes hope i wish :(	10:08
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mitra	re	10:10
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ivyvisors	evening	10:11
qwerty12	morning down here lol	10:11
ivyvisors	the fun of timezones	10:12
ivyvisors	i'd guess if morning, it be the uk	10:12
* ivyvisors is in .au		10:12
qwerty12	yep :)	10:12
qwerty12	Ah right	10:12
Italodance	morning friend qwerty12	10:12
qwerty12	morning Italodance :)	10:12
Italodance	:D	10:12
* ivyvisors has just started getting stuff working on the n810		10:12
ivyvisors	fun fun :)	10:12
ivyvisors	getting the scratchbox going was a pain in the butt	10:13
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czr	ivy, what problems did you have?	10:13
qwerty12	ivyvisors: I had a fun time setting up sb too :D	10:13
qwerty12	I cant get sb2 to work however,	10:13
ivy	we had issues with the repository, and it was downloading the same stuff again and again	10:13
ivy	so far just got nmap going for the fun of it	10:13
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ivy	couldn't get a .deb built	10:14
ivy	but that's prolly cos we don't know what we're doing	10:14
mitra	sometimes repository.maemo.org would throw 403, and cause the whole thing to restart	10:14
mitra	during the sdk installation	10:14
ivy	but mitra did get it installed finally.	10:14
czr	ah. that sounds like fine	10:14
czr	fun even	10:14
ivy	yeah	10:14
ivy	like pulling teeth	10:14
qwerty12	I was lucky then, I managed to install when it was stable.	10:14
czr	I use local mirrors because of the repo instability.	10:14
koyote	i'd gathered from reading earlier that there wasn't a need to reformat the sd card to do cloning	10:14
mitra	especially with finite bandwidth :)	10:14
ivy	but mitra and i have it going now	10:15
czr	are you following any material/tutorials?	10:15
czr	or just stabbing in the dark?	10:15
ivy	stabbing in the dark right now :)	10:15
ivy	well i ma	10:15
mitra	trying to follow the tororials anyway :)	10:15
ivy	*am	10:15
ivy	mitra, has had more exp with arm stuff than I though	10:16
czr	the mailing lists contain a lot of good stuff (and a lot of bad stuff as well, ..) and google is your friend :-)	10:17
qwerty12	I have no experience with C++ or arm, if stuff cleanly compiles then I'm happy :P. Other than that, I use it to make kernels.	10:17
* ivy nods		10:17
czr	and there's training material plug which is freely available, but that starts from fairly basic level.	10:17
* ivy nods		10:17
ivy	i've ported some stuff from linux to irix, so it shouldn't be too hard :)	10:17
ivy	and IRIX can be a pic	10:18
czr	heh. there's a name you don't hear very often anymore	10:18
ivy	hehe	10:18
pupnik	now i have no angband icon in menu even though i have /usr/share/applications/hildon/angband.destop	10:18
ivy	i still have an o2	10:18
ivy	on my desk	10:18
qwerty12	"destop" :p , is it really named that?	10:18
koyote	pupnik: cool	10:18
pupnik	no desktop	10:18
pupnik	grrr	10:19
koyote	i am partitioning now	10:19
czr	a friend tried to give me their sgi's, but I'm past the "collect all interesting useless hardware"-phase.	10:19
ivy	heheh	10:19
ivy	well i got rid of most of mine	10:19
ivy	still have a couple of vaxes	10:19
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ivy	all running vms as god intended ;)	10:19
* koyote shudders		10:20
* czr coughs silently		10:20
koyote	finally i got rid of the e6000	10:20
ivy	heheh	10:20
koyote	and the stack of ss20s	10:20
koyote	and the u1s	10:20
ivy	well i found a good use for my indies	10:20
czr	fishtanks?	10:20
ivy	as a monitor riser for my mac when i'm working on music	10:20
koyote	i wouldn't mind an apollo to play with, i guess.	10:20
czr	I have couple of mac cubes just running a firefox with autorefresh on a NOC-status page at office	10:21
czr	although they're running linuxen, but still.	10:21
koyote	and i should have kept the on n80 aix laptop, but other than that i am glad to be back on all portable/handhelds	10:21
koyote	a g4 cube i WOULD love to have	10:21
koyote	for my son	10:22
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czr	they're pretty slow by modern standards though	10:22
czr	motherboard : PowerMac5,1 MacRISC Power Macintosh	10:22
czr	but almost silent. should do something about the hard-drives though.	10:22
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GeneralAntilles	Better off getting a Mini over a Cube.	10:23
czr	probably. although mini is not nearly as sexy.	10:24
GeneralAntilles	True true.	10:24
GeneralAntilles	But still	10:24
GeneralAntilles	Cubes are SLOOOW	10:24
czr	plus you get to miss all the funny problems of finding suitable monitor cables that can run in a 90 degree diagonal off the connector	10:24
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	10:24
czr	we got about 10 cubes left over at some point, so decided to cannibalize couple of them just because we could.	10:25
ivy	i always liked the cube	10:26
ivy	i do need something that can run mac os 9, for sound diver tho :<	10:26
GeneralAntilles	Ew	10:27
* czr can't believe he's on a channel where someone mentions os 9.		10:27
czr	ivy, you've jinxed this channel!	10:27
ivy	hehe	10:28
ivy	oh noes	10:28
czr	the vms was bad enough.	10:28
* asha distributes free GNUs to bring the channel back around		10:28
* czr goes looking for his spears		10:28
ivy	hehe i like Gnus	10:28
ivy	personally more of a NetBSD fan :P	10:28
ivy	anyway	10:29
ivy	hehe	10:29
* ivy laughs		10:29
pupnik	koyote: http://pupnik.de/angband_3.0.9-1_curses_armel.deb .. should install and run - let me know if there's anything to tweak/fix	10:29
pupnik	(from menu)	10:29
ivy	nice	10:29
qwerty12	Thanks pupnik	10:30
koyote	checking	10:30
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pupnik	increasing font size with + button requires redisplay	10:34
pupnik	refresh of game screen	10:34
koyote	i'm getting ablank white screen and xterm is crashing	10:34
pupnik	ok start normal xterm and run 'angband'	10:36
koyote	blank. let me see about a few things	10:36
pupnik	HMPH!@	10:39
pupnik	the blubbering pupnik flees to breakfast	10:39
koyote	it's erroring on opening xterm when i run it manually	10:40
koyote	but if it works for others there's probably something i just haven't done right	10:40
koyote	R&D mode?	10:40
pupnik	hit the - key to reduce font size	10:40
pupnik	then retry	10:41
pupnik	if your default font size yields < 80x25 window, ncurses angband will not run	10:41
pupnik	bbl	10:41
koyote	yah	10:41
koyote	i tried a 10pt	10:41
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koyote	okay, i am off for a bit	10:43
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ivy	has anyone had luck with getting kismet to run on the n810?	10:46
qwerty12	It craps out after a while	10:47
qwerty12	I've used it on a N800 though.	10:47
ivy	kk	10:48
ivy	it's the one thing i want to get going,	10:48
ivy	still learning my way round this little machine	10:48
qwerty12	If you have a memory card and the time, it works under John'x Debian port.	10:48
qwerty12	*johnx	10:48
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ivy	oke	10:50
ivy	i need to get a memory card for it, only had it for a week	10:50
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qwerty12	Oh why do linux archive managers suck? I've had to install 7zip in wine and use that. Works better then the default shit that comes with Ubuntu :(	11:08
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qwerty12	Is it possible to mount rootfs through initfs over usb? I have jffs2 support in computer kernel.	11:12
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gopi	qwerty12: Pfft. tar is all you need.	11:15
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qwerty12	Too long :p	11:15
konttori	hey, does anyone know if there is a way for a theme to set the background of desktop?	11:16
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konttori	Perhaps the hildon-background-manager could do it at least on theme postinst.	11:20
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pupnik	any update to nuovo-black konttori ? :)	11:21
konttori	ah. sorry. completely forgotten.	11:22
konttori	I could do the inverse nuvo now, but I suspect a little more effort would be nice.	11:22
konttori	I'l now looking quickly on how I could add the background support easily to the themes	11:22
konttori	I think quite a few people would appreciate that as well	11:23
konttori	Also, how the deb postinst could just set the new theme on immediately. I think that would be pretty nice as well	11:23
konttori	(or it could ask first on a dialog)	11:23
konttori	I won't be going to the nokia site next week at all, so cannot ask from any developers there	11:24
solmumaha	konttori: add a script to /usr/local/bin that is named the same as the binary/script that changes the theme. Then check if it's your team it tries to change to and change background too :p	11:24
aquatix	morning all	11:24
konttori	solmumaha: what is the script that changes the theme?	11:25
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solmumaha	konttori: i've no idea, but i bet there is one	11:25
solmumaha	or not	11:26
solmumaha	not the most elegant solution though	11:26
konttori	Hmm... there used to be /usr/bin/home-image-loader	11:26
konttori	but there is no such thing anymore	11:26
konttori	hmm... seems like /usr/share/nackgrounds/.desktop files are what I need ... maybe*	11:29
pupnik	konttori: http://pupnik.de/nuvoblack_konttori_bright_blue_bar.jpg	11:30
pupnik	where does this bright blue bar come from?	11:30
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konttori	hmm... Is that os 2008 or 2007?	11:33
konttori	That could be a problem in xterm. I have a bug report on that that says that there is a black line in certain circumstances in xterm	11:34
konttori	I have set it to low priority for now, but maybe I'll consider raising it.	11:35
konttori	OTOH: it might have disappeared already from the latest xterm	11:35
pupnik	os2006	11:35
konttori	(available in garage as sources only)	11:35
konttori	ok. I *think	11:35
konttori	it's the xterm issue then.	11:35
qwerty12	I've got the 13 of xterm version on my N800 OS2008, I prefer it more to the 14 versions TBH	11:36
* pupnik checks		11:36
pupnik	no there's no xterm running	11:36
pupnik	when i run an app, the blue bar disappears	11:37
pupnik	so there's a graphic element missing from nuvoblack	11:37
konttori	what are you using then? It thought that was irssi.	11:37
konttori	makes sense.	11:37
konttori	Hmm... I don't want to update the os2006 stuff anymore though.	11:38
pupnik	ok i will have to find it i think. just wanted to show you that i wasn't making it up	11:38
konttori	0.14 versions are there to have more 'nokia' oriented location for the toolbar.	11:38
konttori	pupnik: I believe you!	11:38
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pupnik	it's hard work to do these themes	11:39
konttori	As 014 xterms are part of the release image.	11:39
GeneralAntilles	Poor xterm	11:40
GeneralAntilles	Gets bundled and Nokia gets its cooties all over it.	11:40
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AStorm	GeneralAntilles: lol	11:52
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konttori	lol	12:03
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konttori	but... It's still good to have it there by default IMHO.	12:03
AStorm	yep	12:06
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pupnik	qwerty12: does angband crap out after a while?	12:19
qwerty12	Which one; your ncurses one or the sdl one by dawnmist?	12:19
pupnik	ncurses	12:19
qwerty12	I haven't actually tried it yet, sorry. I've been messing with emacs port.	12:20
pupnik	the binary conflicts right now, so if you installed sdl version, don't install ncurses	12:20
pupnik	ok	12:20
qwerty12	Give me 10 mins, I'll try it out :)	12:20
pupnik	no hurry	12:21
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qwerty12	pupnik: is only binary conflicting? If so, I'll just move the sdl binary.	12:29
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pupnik	yes	12:33
pupnik	qwerty12: iirc the rest of the shared stuff is in different directories	12:33
qwerty12	Ok thanks, I'm just preparing to install.	12:33
pupnik	hmm but the desktop icon might conflict	12:34
qwerty12	i'll mv that too.	12:34
qwerty12	brb, time for my breakfast lol	12:34
pupnik	guten appetit	12:34
qwerty12	Thanks :). I see quite a few bits are different. I will just untar it as I have set up symlink to memory card previously and I don't have a lot of space left on flash :)	12:38
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* qwerty12 sighs. Stupid gnome is messing about with the desktop file		12:46
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Italodance	hello unique311 :D	12:48
unique311	morning	12:49
unique311	downer	12:49
unique311	what a joke	12:49
unique311	why is it that i cannot dl anything in safari for the iphone.....	12:50
qwerty12	pupnik: Got the ncurses port running :). Now to try it out... (my first time playing lol)	12:50
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pupnik	it's got a heck of a learning curve	12:52
pupnik	hi unique311	12:52
unique311	whats going on?	12:52
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eichi	hello, someone has an idea to make the n800 "jog-able" ;) ? for tracking	12:52
Italodance	unique311 do u have an iphone?	12:52
pupnik	just some maintenance, post-chocolate excess blues	12:52
unique311	Italodance: yeah, just got one the other day..	12:53
unique311	post chocolate excess blues	12:53
Italodance	unique311 cool,is it good?	12:53
pupnik	easter	12:54
qwerty12	ncurses programs are convincing me to get a bluetooth keyboard...	12:54
unique311	not sure if this relates to that, but when i was young i use to go thru a couple of milkyways...	12:54
unique311	by a couple i mean 4 or 5 in a day	12:54
unique311	lol	12:54
qwerty12	I hate milky ways :p. Made me sick and put me off them for life :p	12:55
unique311	my taste for milkyways died also.	12:56
Italodance	unique311 u prefer iphone to ur tablet?	12:57
unique311	tablet	12:57
unique311	I can do much more with the tablet.	12:57
pupnik	heh this is so 'love boat'... Herb Alpert - Rise (1979) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ennMD1fPtXA	12:58
Italodance	unique311 yes i don't like iphone	12:58
Italodance	that's shit	12:58
unique311	i think the hype over it is just that it looks good...	12:58
Italodance	unique311 tell me the audio quality of iphone is bad and low ?	12:58
unique311	i did the sound hack fix...	12:59
unique311	pretty loud now.	12:59
Italodance	oh louder than tablet?	12:59
qwerty12	pupnik: Ncurses port is still running fine. But on N800, hildon keyboard is slightly annoying. It may also be useful to tell people to add KP_Enter as toolbar shortcut	12:59
eichi	someone uses maemo mapper for tracking for openstreetmap? please contact me! important!!	13:00
unique311	Italodance: not louder, but much better than the default sound settings	13:00
Italodance	unique311 i wanted to buy an iphone but finally prefer my n800	13:00
unique311	good choice	13:00
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Italodance	eichi i need map streets do u have?	13:00
unique311	i got my iphone from graigslist	13:00
eichi	Italodance, ?	13:01
unique311	i gave the guy my old notebook for it..	13:01
pupnik	sound hack fix what is this unique311 ?	13:01
Italodance	eichi i want iran tehran do u have?	13:01
eichi	Italodance, i have a problem with the gpx files made by maemo mapper	13:01
Italodance	unique311 hehe the deal	13:01
pupnik	qwerty12: i have no idea how you could play that reasonably with onscreen keyboard	13:01
Italodance	eichi oh ok....	13:01
unique311	pupnik: for the iphone...its is ridiculously low	13:02
eichi	gpx files produced with the latest maemo mapper version give me an import error on the OSM server. thats not funny! i cant continue mapping	13:02
qwerty12	pupnik: I have no idea how I'm managing :p :D . I have enter shortcut on toolbar and when I need the keyboard, it comes up and if I move in the game, the screen autoadjusts	13:02
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Italodance	eichi reinstall it....possible?	13:03
eichi	Italodance, loool	13:04
eichi	nice joke	13:04
eichi	Italodance, you know the difference of opensource + linux and closed source + windows ?	13:05
eichi	reinstall fixed bugs aren't a opensource+linux common feature	13:05
eichi	windows only	13:05
Italodance	eichi yes hehe kiding..	13:06
Italodance	:D	13:06
Italodance	well i have windows	13:07
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qwerty12	pupnik: Ncurses Angband is running stable for me. Is there a point in the game or after a certain time where it quits?	13:10
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pupnik	no	13:14
pupnik	until you win	13:14
pupnik	or not even sure about that	13:14
pupnik	it should also restore a save after ctrl-x to exit	13:14
qwerty12	I'm not even sure on how to win :p	13:14
pupnik	i've never made it very far. for me t.o.m.e was the most adventure-some	13:15
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qwerty12	brb, need to reboot into windows. Why? "$ firefox --safe-mode" "Segmentation fault (core dumped)"	13:16
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pupnik	lmao this guy moose wrote a talking clock program and he's looking for someone who can do a voice impersonation of a Dalek	13:18
sxpert	hmm ??	13:19
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sxpert	pupnik, anyone with a vocoder plugin in audacity can do it	13:20
pupnik	http://www.infocom.cqu.edu.au/Staff/Michael_O_malley/web/mooses_freeware.html	13:20
pupnik	ok audacity has its own, or uses some directx plugin?	13:20
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sxpert	direct-X ???	13:27
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pupnik	well, might be possible	13:28
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GNUton	hi	13:59
AStorm	hello	13:59
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GNUton	:)	14:04
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* jott imagines his tablet saying "EXTERMINATE" all the time :) @pupnik		14:24
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lopz	morning	14:33
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pupnik	whered qwerty12 go	14:34
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neal	I'm looking at the wiki, specifically, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/nokia_770_hardware_specification/	14:41
neal	and I can't find a way to view the history of changes.	14:41
neal	perhaps I'm just overlooking this.	14:42
neal	or does midgard not support this feature.	14:42
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neal	anyone know?	14:42
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czr	hmm. no one has intel PXA270 datasheet handy? seems that since marvell's aquisition of intels PXA-stuff, tech docs are all missing from intel's site.	14:42
pupnik	hi neal. i don't	14:42
jott	neal: i think you have to be logged in	14:42
neal	I have to be logged-in to view the history?	14:43
jott	then you'll get an extra menu	14:43
neal	shesh.	14:43
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jott	don't blame me :p	14:43
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WormFood	did anyone fix the dhcp client while I was gone ;)	14:58
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johnx	WormFood, nope. Find me where udhcpc holds the lease and I'll give it a shot, though	15:02
WormFood	I'm sure it has nothing to do with the lease	15:02
WormFood	when I was out and about today, I was able to connect to a netgear, and one other router, but everything else got me a problem	15:03
AStorm	where can i get man-pages for maemo?	15:03
johnx	AStorm, the packages themselves tend to have man pages I think, but doc purge deletes them	15:03
AStorm	WormFood: you dare contradict years of testing?	15:04
johnx	WormFood, that's nice but I think you're wrong about the lease not affecting it	15:04
johnx	WormFood, the problem is basically udhcpc getting tripped up by some valid dhcpd implementations	15:04
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WormFood	how can the lease affect it, when I show it on the command line as having problems	15:05
WormFood	I mean, problems other than the least	15:05
WormFood	lease	15:05
johnx	WormFood, look back at the conversation earlier. the lease doesn't cause the problem, but I think the problem can be worked around by removing the lease before trying to get an address from dhcp servers that udhcpc would otherwise have a problem with	15:06
WormFood	you may be right	15:07
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johnx	I may or may not be, but I don't have access to a dhcp server that causes problems and I can't find where udhcpc keeps its lease, so my motivation to test work on this isn't so high :)	15:08
WormFood	I understand	15:08
WormFood	I have no idea, but I'm sure looking over the source code would	15:08
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rwhitby	I've got a server where an infinite lease causes the dhcp client problems. I changed it to a finite lease and it works.	15:11
johnx	I think the problem WormFood and AStorm (and myself, in the past) have run into is actually different. If I understand correctly, it seems to be caused by the dhcp server returning extra information (that is within dhcp spec) when sending a DHCPNAK after udhcpc asks for an IP address that isn't in that dhcp server's pool	15:13
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AStorm	yep	15:15
AStorm	and udhcp getting batshit	15:15
* pupnik watches the conversation like this dog http://farm1.static.flickr.com/47/153603564_7281ad0588.jpg		15:16
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WormFood	I will need to setup kismet and monitor the n800-router conversation	15:16
WormFood	load the log file into wireshark, and take a look at it (that is, if wireshark can't capture the conversation itself)	15:17
johnx	uhm...or you can just look at what udhcpc has to say...something along the lines of "unrecognized option" I believe it was?	15:17
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AStorm	it is	15:18
AStorm	we need dhclient package and fixed scripts	15:18
m-c	GeneralAntilles: Hi. The advice you had last night on video playback was great. I downloaded the media (rather than stream it) and loaded mplayer, and then the media was entirely watchable. 'mplayer' made a biiiig difference.	15:19
GeneralAntilles	Glad to have helped.	15:19
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WormFood	[09:09:21] <WormFood> then "bogus packet, options field is too long"	15:21
johnx	that would be it	15:21
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jott	anyone tried to build microb-engine with latest cvs gecko?	15:22
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AStorm	source code?	15:23
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jott	garage? :o	15:23
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WormFood	I will disconnect and reconnect, so I can monitor the n800-router exchange	15:24
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GeneralAntilles	What's with the influx of iPhone nubs on ITT again? :\	15:25
johnx	I dunno, but it seems like we at least have more people willing to answer n00b questions lately, so I haven't noticed/cared that much	15:26
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WormFood	I'm trying to figure out if I can swap between wireless and wired without losing my connections	15:34
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johnx	that would probably be a no...	15:35
WormFood	I suspect I can do it....if I give myself a static IP	15:35
WormFood	anyways....I'll most likely lose my connection	15:35
AStorm	yep, you can't	15:36
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AStorm	you can do print i	15:36
AStorm	uhm, use iptables and masquerade	15:36
AStorm	or some smart routing	15:36
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m-c	Hey, I noticed something using mplayer, when it got a list of all the media files. My SDcard has retained a bunch of files in .Trash - how do I finally delete these from the GUI? How can I set the file manager to actually delete the files when I want them deleted?	15:39
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m-c	I've never seen any "Empty Trash" button.	15:41
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AStorm	in file manager	15:41
AStorm	in menu	15:42
m-c	keep going... I don't see it	15:42
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SDuensin	Morning.	15:43
m-c	people aren't expected to format the memory card just to finally get rid of files, I hope	15:44
WormFood	am I still connected?	15:44
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m-c	yes	15:44
johnx	WormFood, no you're not connected	15:44
WormFood	ok, I guess I was able to change interfaces without losing my connection here :p	15:44
WormFood	evening SDuensin	15:44
AStorm	hmm, no	15:45
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AStorm	WormFood: with iptables	15:45
AStorm	use NAT	15:45
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AStorm	ok, I want to put devel env on my N	15:54
AStorm	howtos?	15:54
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johnx	are you booting from sd already?	15:54
AStorm	will be	15:54
AStorm	I can upload to a live system	15:55
AStorm	then switch	15:55
AStorm	but, it has to be devel maemo	15:55
AStorm	rsyncable	15:55
WormFood	AStorm, no	15:55
WormFood	I ran ifdown on eth0	15:56
WormFood	then ran ifup on eth1	15:56
AStorm	wrong	15:56
WormFood	manually changed the ip address on eth1 to be the same that eth0 was	15:56
AStorm	use ifup first then ifdown	15:56
WormFood	then added the default gateway back	15:56
WormFood	because just changing the ip address for eth1 erases the default gateway	15:56
johnx	AStorm, I haven't seen a howto, but I guess you could just collect stuff as you need it from gronmayer	15:56
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Veggen_	hmm. I managed to switch between gprs and wifi without losing my connection :)	15:57
Veggen_	but i cheat.	15:57
johnx	with the latest SDK update you shouldn't run into too many version mismatch problems	15:57
WormFood	it is all about the packet state....if the router does not somehow destroy the tcp/ip stream state, it will work	15:57
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Veggen_	wormfood: correct. I use openvpn :)	15:58
WormFood	I use openvpn too	15:58
WormFood	I use that to get around the great firewall of china	15:58
johnx	AStorm, also, look up dpkg-repack for repacking installed .debs and 'equivs' for making dummy packages if you need them	15:58
AStorm	mhm	15:59
AStorm	no no	15:59
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AStorm	I have a devel env	15:59
AStorm	on vmware	15:59
AStorm	want to use it on maemo proper (the built os)	16:00
johnx	yeah, I understand	16:00
m-c	Veggen: do you think it is possible to have a VoIP call where the N8x0 jumps from one connection to another?	16:00
johnx	you'll probably end up repacking some .debs from your SDK on vmware, and satisfying some deps with equivs	16:00
AStorm	hm	16:01
AStorm	ok, I'm going in	16:02
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Veggen	m-c: hmm. probably switchover time would be unbearable. I also would need to do something about openvpn re-setup etc.	16:03
johnx	as long as you are booting from SD and you remember to stop and backup your progress once in a while you'll probably manage ok	16:03
kulve	anybody familian with the wlan power save? "iwconfig wlan0 power ..."	16:03
kulve	familiar	16:03
Veggen	kulve: a bit - how?	16:03
kulve	Power Management:off	16:03
Veggen	I know that on os2008, you'll need to do it in connection manager for it to stick.	16:04
m-c	Veggen: I think one goal of VoIP would be to be able to switch from one connection to another, just like you can do with a cell phone	16:04
kulve	and the device is pretty warm. I'm just wondering how to adjust that	16:04
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kulve	Veggen: I'm not using connection manager..	16:04
Veggen	oh. no, afraid not.	16:04
AStorm	kulve: check cpu usage	16:04
AStorm	heat is mostly caused by that	16:04
kulve	AStorm: no cpu usage	16:05
kulve	http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/iwconfig.html	16:05
kulve	but that seems to be what I was looking for.	16:05
Veggen	m-c: hmm. well, yes. we need mobile ip :)	16:05
AStorm	mobile IP = tunnels/VPNs	16:06
AStorm	so use these	16:06
Veggen	well. right now it took more than a minute, I think, for openvpn to renegotiate. with changing openvpn parameters, it'd be possible to get that down quite a bit.	16:07
AStorm	mhm	16:08
Veggen	but not noticeable? doubt it :)	16:09
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kulve	humm, anybodu with os2008 booted? Is there the iwconfig command around?	16:11
lcdd	kulve: try sbin	16:12
Veggen	wirelesstools exists in some repositories, but not in os2008 by default.	16:13
kulve	Veggen: thanks	16:13
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Veggen	kulve: I've been tablet only all easter. laptop decided to not work (think it's a bad contact to the power plug)	16:16
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Veggen	made wonders for my n810 typing skills :)	16:16
kulve	I've been trying to get networkmanager working on it during the easter..	16:17
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qwerty12_N800	m-c: about your mplayer problem, you didn't use emelfm to delete the files or nautillus on computer?	16:23
kulve	"iwconfig wlan0 power [anything]" just gives me invalid argument	16:23
m-c	qwerty12_N800: I used File Manager ... is that Nautilus?	16:24
qwerty12_N800	File manager on the n8*0?	16:24
m-c	Yes	16:24
Veggen	kulve: example of [anything]?	16:24
m-c	and the files went into /media/mmc2/.Trash-user/	16:25
qwerty12_N800	That's odd. Gmplayer upd8s it's file list on startup.	16:25
Veggen	("off" works, for example)	16:25
kulve	Veggen: iwconfig wlan0 power period 500ms	16:26
kulve	Veggen: yeah, "off" doesn't give an error, but doesn't do anything either as it's already off..	16:26
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kulve	"on" doesn't give error either, but doesn't do anything	16:26
WormFood	now upon closer inspection, it appears that the N800 is sending out the dhcp packet, and not getting any response...it then falls back to rarp	16:27
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WormFood	does anyone want this capture file to look at for themselves?	16:32
Veggen	kulve: seems it won't eat any arguments to power period here either. but I haven't checked the docs.	16:32
pupnik	i shall cheer for your successes WormFood .. document your findings	16:32
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pupnik	wb ssvb!	16:33
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WormFood	I need to do more investigation	16:34
WormFood	I need to compare it to a good dhcp client	16:35
WormFood	I may get disconnected for my next test	16:35
WormFood	then I will go to bed	16:35
kulve	well, now gnome-power-manager sets cpufreq to "maximum powersave", i.e. cpu MHz to minimum. Lets see if that affects the temperature..	16:36
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WormFood	ok, test done	16:36
WormFood	well this is fucked up....I don't see any dhcp address or traffic to my laptop....but it got an IP address	16:38
WormFood	I guess I can't capture and use the wireless at the same time :(	16:40
WormFood	where is the kismet package for the n800?	16:43
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WormFood	have any if you guys seen the blue sprite yet (soda)? I can get it here in China, but don't know if it is anywhere else in the world.	16:46
sxpert	the what ?	16:46
sxpert	I know toothpaste from china containing antifreeze and other similar antics	16:47
WormFood	sprite soda, that is blue	16:47
WormFood	mint flavored	16:47
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* GeneralAntilles gives sxpert some "Colgrate".		16:47
pupnik	toothpaste soda	16:47
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WormFood	I rather like this blue sprite	16:47
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cyberholic	hi everyone... happy easter... honk honk	16:48
WormFood	happy easter? aren't you a little late?	16:48
sxpert	WormFood, ahem... I'd rather have regular water, than a mix of water, sugar and fluo-blue coloring with artificial mint flavor. thanks	16:48
cyberholic	WormFood: oh correct. sorry! I mean HAPPY CHRISTMAS!	16:48
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sxpert	cyberholic, happy valentine :-)	16:49
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cyberholic	sxpert: to you too my love	16:49
WormFood	I updated my jesusfuckinchrist.com web page in honor of easter ;)	16:49
cyberholic	wormfood: thanks for making a website for me!	16:49
sxpert	WormFood, http://gallery.sxpert.org/v/Broken/ikea/ikea-Krucifix.jpg.html	16:50
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cyberholic	lol	16:50
qwerty12_N800	http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/204492/ :p	16:52
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WormFood	sxpert, your site does not appear to be coming up for me...don't know if it is the great firewall or just my crappy internet (some sites are very fast, and others are very slow)	16:54
cyberholic	lol	16:54
sxpert	WormFood, probably the great whitelist from hell	16:55
WormFood	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprite_(soft_drink) it is called "sprite icy mint"	16:57
WormFood	I don't feel like setting up my vpn just to read the page, but it appears that it is only in china	16:58
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sxpert	WormFood, anyhow, the interesting pic showed some jesus christ figure holding ikea instructions for "Krucifix" :-)	16:59
fysa	ooo. xulrunner + touchscreen UI	16:59
WormFood	sxpert, can you give me a direct url to the image? (I can download it to my server)	16:59
Lynoure	Any idea where I could find Frotz or some other inform intepreter for maemo os2008? I tried the elkings.org repo but got some "incompatible package format" error	16:59
fysa	http://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/UI/Designs/TouchScreen/Proposal5	16:59
sxpert	image 1 : http://gallery.sxpert.org/d/4195-1/gutvik.gif	17:00
sxpert	image 2: http://gallery.sxpert.org/d/4198-1/ikea-Krucifix.jpg	17:00
WormFood	thanks sxpert	17:01
pupnik	Lynoure: frotz or gfrotz?	17:02
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Lynoure	pupnik: either, or any that lets me play inform games, will do	17:04
WormFood	damn! all of my internet is running like shit today	17:04
Lynoure	Not really picky at this stage :)	17:04
WormFood	ok, bed time for me, it is after 11 pm here...see you all later	17:04
pupnik	Lynoure: do you think i should include the docs with it?	17:05
Lynoure	pupnik: no strong opinions there... I'd say most people don't need them	17:05
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sxpert	WormFood, so, what do you think ?	17:07
WormFood	what do I think about what?	17:08
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sxpert	WormFood, bout the pix	17:09
WormFood	I can't see it	17:09
WormFood	I can't even load my own pages	17:09
WormFood	BUT, I can ssh into my server	17:09
WormFood	I will look at them later	17:09
sxpert	ok	17:10
WormFood	I imagine it is funny tho, just by your description	17:10
sxpert	yeah	17:10
WormFood	what did you think of the easter images on my page? (or did you look?)	17:10
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sxpert	the first one you may need to either know german or search the web ;-)	17:10
sxpert	WormFood, pretty cool too	17:10
pupnik	Lynoure: ok just touched up frotz... please test http://pupnik.de/frotz_2.43-1_armel.deb	17:11
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cyberholic	sxpert... i know german... who needs help?	17:12
sxpert	cyberholic, WormFood will need for image 1 :-)	17:12
Tobotras	I need help! I'd like to know german too!	17:12
cyberholic	image 1?	17:12
WormFood	I'll share the url with my german friend	17:12
pupnik	i know a little german	17:12
sxpert	scrollback :-)	17:12
cyberholic	i am on pupnik.de .... and now?	17:13
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sxpert	cyberholic, [2008-03-24 16:00] <sxpert> image 1 : http://gallery.sxpert.org/d/4195-1/gutvik.gif	17:14
Lynoure	pupnik: installed nicely. I'll give more feedback later, one I try it with a game. Thank you.	17:14
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cyberholic	ok... GUTVIK means "good f*ck" so the aim of the bed is quite clear	17:15
qwerty12_N800	Lol	17:15
cyberholic	in german it is GUT FICK	17:15
sxpert	'cept its a kiddie bed...	17:15
qwerty12_N800	Eww	17:16
sxpert	dual bunk to be precise	17:16
sxpert	"you can put the ladder to the left or to the right"	17:16
sxpert	of course, the thing was named for a city in norway or something	17:17
sxpert	but didn't go well in germany	17:17
sxpert	similar to that "Nova" car in mexico	17:17
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qwerty12_N800	ich sehe Brüste	17:18
cyberholic	lol	17:18
pupnik	i want a Pacer	17:18
qwerty12_N800	I want a (prepare yourselves for the horror)... M$ ppc - namely the unreleased xperia x1 (i liked my last 3 yr old one :p)	17:21
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cyberholic	does Flash work on it?	17:21
cyberholic	I mean Flash 8 ?	17:21
sxpert	qwerty12_N800, get an Xbox 360, that's an M$ PPC for you ;-)	17:21
qwerty12_N800	I believe flash is supported by adobe themselves on ppc's.	17:22
qwerty12_N800	I like ps3 more :p	17:22
cyberholic	but not the latest version - i tried it yesterday to make mojocafe.de work on the Nokia n95 but it did not worked out.	17:22
sxpert	qwerty12_N800, apparently it's a sony ericcson product	17:23
qwerty12_N800	Symbian & sony ericsson phones only have fl lite.	17:23
qwerty12_N800	sxpert: really?	17:23
sxpert	google tells me that it's a SE smart phone of some sort	17:23
qwerty12_N800	Oh! The xperia?	17:24
sxpert	yep	17:24
qwerty12_N800	I thought you meant the x360 8-) lol	17:24
cyberholic	the trailer video of the xperia SUCKS! It is nicely done, but only 5% of the video show the function of the device. They should have seen the n800 trailer.....	17:24
sxpert	well the only MS PPC I know of is the X360 ;-)	17:25
qwerty12_N800	cyberholic: Blame ms ;)	17:25
cyberholic	:)	17:25
pupnik	i wish desktop PCs could scale down their power requirements to < 25 watts when not doing real work	17:25
cyberholic	pupnik: desktop PC NEVER do real work ;)	17:25
cyberholic	just kidding	17:25
pupnik	maybe i should just go with notebooks from now on	17:25
sxpert	pupnik, you can get that... buy an alix board, makes a fine desktop	17:26
fysa	Mac Mini ;)	17:26
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sxpert	fysa, intel inside... blows 80w minimum	17:27
pupnik	it needs to compile stuff fast when i need it - going on 3 hours building libraries right now on athlon 2800xp	17:27
fysa	uses mobile processor	17:27
h3sp4wn	Is there a sane way to get my nokia 770 (US version) to see channels 12/13 (Looks like I have been sold the US version even though I am in the UK)	17:27
qwerty12_N800	I don't think you can, unless you have phoenix dongle ;)	17:28
fysa	sxpert, Mac Mini uses 28 watts while watching a DVD	17:28
fysa	wait.	17:28
fysa	maybe that was PPC.	17:29
sxpert	hah !	17:29
qwerty12_N800	O	17:29
sxpert	probably	17:29
qwerty12_N800	Eh, wtf the o come from?	17:29
sxpert	somewhere	17:30
sxpert	:-)	17:30
qwerty12_N800	Lol, pidgin & hildon messing me around	17:30
qwerty12_N800	Back on my comp in 30 mins.	17:31
* qwerty12_N800 sighs		17:31
pupnik	anybody here have an original Apple ][ ? :/	17:31
fysa	Mac Mini CPU uses 34 watts	17:32
fysa	for the fast C2D	17:32
qwerty12_N800	Anyone have phoenix dongle/mt-box? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17665	17:32
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pupnik	hehe	17:32
fysa	aha, here we go.	17:33
fysa	yes	17:33
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fysa	2.16GHz, idle at OS X/XP desktop = 21 watts	17:33
fysa	while running two Folding@Home clients -- 51 watts	17:33
fysa	if it had an 8800GT embedded, I would get one. ;)	17:34
cyberholic	Hey people. At the moment i am thinking about developing some new Mojos with the flickr API. Do you use your device to watch photos or if available at mojocafe.de would you then use it?	17:34
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cyberholic	Oh, and does anyone know if there is a way to tell the device not to dim darker when not plugged to charge?	17:37
qwerty12_N800	Use moredimmingoptions and set for 24 hours timeout ;)	17:38
cyberholic	where to get the moredimmingoptions? i	17:39
qwerty12_N800	maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/moredimmingoptions/	17:39
qwerty12_N800	:)	17:39
cyberholic	coooooooooooool!	17:40
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pupnik	cool... vst audio plugins under linux http://ladspavst.linuxaudio.org/ http://www.joebutton.co.uk/fst/ http://dssi.sourceforge.net/	17:40
qwerty12_N800	You can also make your own timeouts if you use gconf editor.	17:40
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cyberholic	and if i know how to code on maemo :)	17:41
qwerty12_N800	You don't really need programming skills :) . I sux at programming but i've compiled modified kernel, done a LOT to my n800 etc :)	17:42
sxpert	so much that it's now a doorstop ?	17:43
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qwerty12_N800	Nope, it works but more slowly :p	17:44
qwerty12_N800	If anyone knows me from se-nse, you know hoow much I like to mod :p	17:44
sxpert	haha	17:44
qwerty12_N800	Does anyone have a dbox2 here? I'm tempted to buy one and put linux on it.	17:46
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warlock86	hello	17:48
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cyberholic	hi warlock	17:54
* lcuk_2 yawns		17:56
qwerty12	Anybody know how to get my GNOME to run "sudo ifdown wlan0 && sudo ifup wlan0" automatically when logging in? I tried sessions to no effect, I've added and tested successfully sudo entries and the command works when typed in terminal. I've managed to get ndiswrapper to insert on boot, now to just sort this and I'll have a wifi that connects faster than windows.	17:57
KotCzarny	nds2.nokia.com/files/support/nam/phones/guides/N800_US_en.PDF	17:59
KotCzarny	so it IS a phone after all!	17:59
qwerty12	OMG!	17:59
lcuk_2	nds2.nokia.com/files/support/nam/elephants/guides/N800_US_en.PDF	17:59
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lcuk_2	its also an elephant :P	17:59
Lynoure	heh	18:00
KotCzarny	lcuk: The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you followed is either outdated, inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let you have it.	18:00
KotCzarny	;)	18:00
KotCzarny	you're inaccurate	18:00
qwerty12	muhahahahaha	18:00
lcuk_2	its just outdated - they evolved	18:00
KotCzarny	probably	18:01
koyote`	oi	18:01
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KotCzarny	in the same way you can treat any electronic device as an elephant	18:01
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lcuk_2	last time i tried to treat my device as anelephant i spent weeks building an enclosure for it, but before I was done the hippies came and released it back into the wild :(	18:02
koyote	pupnik: any mods to the angband package since earlier	18:02
KotCzarny	poor elephant	18:02
lcuk_2	angband?	18:02
KotCzarny	gangband	18:03
qwerty12	d?	18:03
lcuk_2	even poorer because they released it into the rainforest and it wasnt waterproof	18:03
KotCzarny	dangbang?	18:03
qwerty12	Could work... ?	18:03
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pupnik	no koyote - maybe if you could figure out how to specify a proper font size, i would include that in the launcher	18:05
lcuk	how do i get nickserv to automatically accept my password? do i have to configure xchat?	18:05
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qwerty12	Yea	18:05
pupnik	or any other command line options you find that make sense	18:05
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koyote	pupnik: well, i'm going to finish the cloning now and then i	18:05
qwerty12	Go to network list and choose free node and choose edit and put nickserv password in	18:05
koyote	I'll work on it	18:05
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koyote	lcuk: erc deals with nicserv really well.	18:06
koyote	;)	18:06
lcuk	its done :)	18:06
lcuk	xchat works well for me - marked as wontchange	18:06
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* lcuk has started playing with the text rendering - hoping to make a smooth editor		18:07
KotCzarny	make a sdl plugin?	18:08
KotCzarny	or lib	18:08
qwerty12	My N800 is a knob. I just put in usb cable and it restarts 8-)	18:08
KotCzarny	another usb-fried n800?	18:08
lcuk	i was thinking a gtk plugin actually	18:08
pupnik	lcuk sounds like fun but much reinventing of wheels	18:08
* koyote shrugs and continues to do everything in emacs		18:09
lcuk	well - how do i get a standard textbox to slide without aiming for a tiny scrollbar	18:09
qwerty12	KotCzarny: I think usb is fine, just the N800 was acting weird. Indeed, it worked this time lol	18:09
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lcuk	i want to slide anywhere on the page	18:09
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KotCzarny	slide	18:10
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lcuk	yer - scrolling without having to grab the little tiny thing which is also at the wrong side of the screen	18:10
* lcuk curses the normal text boxes (left hander so hand obscures screen)		18:11
lcuk	the web browser does it right but it feels sluggish	18:11
pupnik	ok so now you're sliding the screen, how to highlight text?	18:11
qwerty12	There's a modified echo theme with scrollbars and you can now rotate NiT into 270* too.	18:11
qwerty12	*scrollbars bigger	18:11
lcuk	sliding = up down - selecting can be initialised with a left right to get it into mode then up down for lines, or just use gutter selection	18:12
lcuk	rotating 270 degrees sounds like the bomb, but i dont wanna type on my 810 screen upside down	18:12
lcuk	bigger scrollbars arent really the answer - i just wanna move around nicely	18:13
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qwerty12	Ah, I forgot about that 8-), I guess I am used to N800.	18:13
KotCzarny	yup	18:13
KotCzarny	and use touch screen what it was intended for	18:13
lcuk	but even if i put it upside down i still have same problem because i still need to do stuff - i want to mirror the contents and stuff but keep the text oriented default way	18:14
lcuk	ie scrollbars on left	18:14
AStorm	heh, is it possible to turn off Selective Availability in N810 gps receiver?	18:14
pupnik	no, it's a hussy	18:14
lcuk	is there a way to turn it on? right now i have no availability	18:14
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AStorm	lcuk: lol	18:16
lcuk	pupnik, re - reinventing wheel - im not expecting to do everything but i am enjoying playing with alternatives. trying to get the right touch based interface - you never know something might work and end up sticking :)	18:16
AStorm	it's a scheme to reduce quality of consumer GPS recvs	18:16
lcuk	SA is done from the sat end though isnt it - its something US gov enable	18:17
AStorm	nah	18:17
pupnik	lcuk: fine, if i were paying your salary i'd put you to work fixing tearing on itFCE NES emulator :)	18:18
AStorm	it's a mandatory feature of receiver	18:18
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AStorm	not needed in EU	18:18
AStorm	but prob. still enabled yas gps passed fcc tests	18:18
KotCzarny	pupnik: i believe his work could be reused	18:18
KotCzarny	:)	18:18
lcuk	no, SA decryption is something in military hardware. the signal from the sat is sent down with an encrypted block which only mil people with daily passwords can decrypt. the gov can turn on or off this feature AT THE SAT.	18:19
AStorm	you cam decrypt that	18:19
AStorm	it's not hard, sorry :)	18:19
AStorm	illegal in the US	18:20
AStorm	prob. not EU	18:20
KotCzarny	what is it for ?	18:20
lcuk	anyway - SA is disabled and its unlikely to ever be turned on	18:20
AStorm	...	18:21
AStorm	you don't get that we want a decrypting driver?	18:21
AStorm	:P	18:21
glass	isn't sa off for most of the time	18:22
AStorm	on	18:22
lcuk	its off always now	18:22
glass	yeah since 200 or something	18:22
lcuk	The amount of error added was "set to zero"[20] at midnight on May 1, 2000 following an announcement by U.S. President Bill Clinton, allowing users access to the error-free L1 signal.	18:22
glass	2000	18:22
AStorm	mhm	18:22
AStorm	whee	18:22
glass	AStorm: theres other accuracy options	18:22
pupnik	i think wlan scanning for lock-assist is more interesting	18:22
glass	AStorm: that can be enabled on some gps dongles	18:22
Lynoure	pupnik: I seem to get "Error opening terminal: xterm" from frotz when trying to open any game	18:22
AStorm	glass, diff. gps?	18:23
glass	AStorm: some accuracy added sats or shit like that	18:23
pupnik	ok Lynoure do you have ncurses installed?	18:23
lcuk	pupnik, if you were paying my salary i would gladly work on something that wasnt vb or .net :)	18:23
lcuk	ANYTHING	18:23
glass	AStorm: havent fooled around myself.. a friend says you can enable them on some dongles	18:23
Lynoure	pupnik: possibly not, will check	18:24
pupnik	works here frotz ZORK1.DAT	18:25
Lynoure	Seems I don't. and the repos I have do not have it either, so now I need to find it	18:26
pupnik	http://gronmayer.de/it	18:27
pupnik	it should have required ncurses for install	18:27
koyote	tha angband package?	18:28
pupnik	both iirc	18:30
koyote	both?	18:30
pupnik	ncurses angband uses ncurses	18:31
pupnik	ncurses frotz uses ncurses	18:31
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pupnik	man, i learned to type playing infocom games...	18:31
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warlock86	anyone could tell me how to add the "Esc" key to the on-screen keyboard of a n810?	18:32
KotCzarny	use xkbd	18:32
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lcuk	pssst you know you can just press the esc thats just at the side of the screen ;)	18:33
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Lynoure	I'm having major candyshop moments with this new repo listing :)	18:33
koyote	installing ncurses is going to be rough, now.	18:34
Lynoure	koyote: hmm, how come?	18:34
koyote	apt-get install failed.	18:35
warlock86	thanks KotCzarny and lcuk	18:35
KotCzarny	apt-cache search ncurses	18:35
warlock86	:-)	18:35
* konttori just published new version of nuvopearl (no real changes, just added background)		18:36
konttori	https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/NuvoPearl/	18:36
* lcuk considers joining maemo.org gang		18:36
lcuk	im scared tho	18:36
koyote	gpg error on chinook. great	18:36
koyote	sometimes stuff should actually work.	18:36
lcuk	it would be nice wouldnt it	18:37
KotCzarny	but what we would do then?	18:37
KotCzarny	if everything worked fine	18:37
lcuk	buy the next device needing our superhero powers	18:37
KotCzarny	'everything'	18:37
KotCzarny	including future devices	18:37
warlock86	koyote, what's wrong with the gps on chinook?	18:37
koyote	gpg	18:38
warlock86	oh, sorry	18:38
pupnik	konttori: can you run some imagemagick script on NuvoPearl to make a different shade with not much work?	18:38
cyberholic	Hey people... any voyeurs in here? haha... in case you want to see how i live....	18:38
cyberholic	... and how my device pimps up my flat: http://www.mojocafe.de/blog/	18:38
KotCzarny	if you'r 18yo female	18:38
cyberholic	Kot: not yet ;)	18:38
KotCzarny	:)	18:38
koyote	package ncurses has no installation cadidate	18:39
konttori	pupnik: Well, in photoshop you do pretty much anything	18:39
konttori	it's one single png file anyway	18:39
lcuk	cyberholic, when you have 800 sat at bedside running flash all night without power cable in - does it last till morning (even till the next couple of hours)	18:39
KotCzarny	imagemagics convert is faster	18:39
konttori	so, yeah, pupnik, it's really easy to make small or bigger changes to the theme	18:39
KotCzarny	(ie. doesn't require you to run pc)	18:39
pupnik	konttori: but the old themes were so many files!	18:40
konttori	then just run theme maker and you'll get the deb for it	18:40
pupnik	niceeee	18:40
cyberholic	lcuk: yep it does! i tried it out a few days ago with the alarm clock i made and it worked! the only problem: when the alarm rang, i touched the screen to stop it but the device took about 10 seconds to "wake up", so you can be sure that i was awaken :)	18:40
konttori	pupnik: theme maker splits the single image to the 'tons of files'	18:40
koyote	apt-get update............. gpg error for chinnok, no pubkey available.....you may want to run apt-get update to correct this problem	18:40
koyote	HAHA	18:40
konttori	also sets the gtkrc colors from the image and so on	18:40
lcuk	cyberholic, must admit - it looks sweet though - perhaps you could put something together to get your mojos running on digital picture frames	18:40
pupnik	koyote: did you check gronmayer?	18:40
konttori	pupnik: here is the plankton theme template	18:41
konttori	https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-theme-plankton/template/template.png	18:41
pupnik	ty	18:41
konttori	(don't open in n800)	18:41
konttori	8000x800 pixels	18:41
konttori	Color definitions are at the very right side of the image	18:41
cyberholic	lcuk: thnx. i broke my neck yesterday because i tried to port the whole thing to the n95, but it did not worked out.... wrong flash version :(	18:41
koyote	pupnik: yah, guess i can just add more feeds, since chinook is borken this morning	18:41
qwerty12	N95 uses sucky Flash Lite :p	18:42
konttori	So, for any artist, it's easy to edit the whole image in photoshop and then just use theme maker, set theme name, author , fonts, click create and Blam! that's it	18:42
cyberholic	qwerty: yep, thats what i found out too.... BUUUUT: the newest firmware of the n95 works with flash 8!!!!! no flash lite anymore... THAT is strange.	18:42
qwerty12	Wow, that is good.	18:43
pupnik	that's a great thing konttori - hope it gets some blog / ITT activity	18:43
wom-	hmm, where is timezone information stored?	18:43
pupnik	<- nuvoblack fan	18:43
lcuk	cyber, can you run flash without the browser? by default i keep the info bar at bottom enabled so never get full full screen	18:43
konttori	pupnik: I'll blog about it a bit now.	18:43
cyberholic	lcuk: you can turn the navi bar off at the menu with VIEW-->SHOW TOOLBAR --> FULLSCREEN (unchecked)	18:44
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lcuk	yer, but that way i cant browse with it on (as i want) and use your mojos without having to switch every time - would be better to have a single button on desktop to say "mojo" and run yours fullscreen and without having to go through favorites etc	18:45
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lcuk	and also to do it without internet connected	18:46
koyote	what repo do i need to get ncurses installed?	18:47
pupnik	koyote: did you check gronmayer.de?	18:47
koyote	i have nokia, nokia 3rd party, sys soft, maemo extras (maemo hackers is borked), elkins.org, eko one, maemo chinook	18:48
koyote	pupnik: yeah. maemo chinook	18:48
pupnik	it is not listed?	18:48
koyote	it's listed on the website.	18:48
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koyote	not in app manager	18:49
lcuk	KotCzarny/pupnik - sdl blitting is done using the cpu isnt it? if it could be done via the dsp then apps would have more cpu time to handle everything. if something like that could be put in place would it help? or does init of the dsp take so much time you couldnt share use with mp3s?	18:49
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koyote	and i can't install via apt-get	18:49
pupnik	ahh :/	18:49
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koyote	so, how do i get it?	18:49
Lynoure	weird... according to gronmayer.de, there is ncurses in many places, but it's not showing up in my app manager either	18:49
Lynoure	trying apt-get.	18:49
koyote	that's normal broken, Lynoure	18:49
lcuk	it may be a redpill moment	18:49
pupnik	in app manager you won't see libxxx usually	18:50
lcuk	app manager by default only lists some apps from each repo	18:50
koyote	the app manager displays some random assortment of 5% of what you can install	18:50
lcuk	its the user apps	18:50
koyote	but apt-get isn't working.	18:50
Lynoure	But, alas, I'm not a root.	18:51
Lynoure	koyote: funny synchronocity we are having	18:51
cyberholic	lcuk: well, the point is that there are mojos that require a web connection: for example the newsfeeds or the webcams. I developed the whole project because i think that people in a few years are permanent online. With me it is already like that :)	18:51
koyote	you might want to install becomeroot	18:51
cyberholic	lcuk: about the fullscreen: i tried to force a fullscreen, but the microb does not recognize it :(	18:52
lcuk	cyberholic, but there are many mojos which look excellent which dont need a connection - shouldnt it be the users choice	18:52
lcuk	no - i wouldnt want you forcing anything - its good that it doesnt allow it	18:52
lcuk	on my local computer i can run flash without opening a browser	18:53
pupnik	wget http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/n/ncurses/libncursesw5_5.4-3.osso1_armel.deb	18:53
pupnik	then dpkg -i libncurses*.deb	18:53
cyberholic	lcuk: yep. you are right! the problem is that i do not know how to code a "browser" window at the moment.	18:53
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lcuk	thats ok :) i will certainly keep my eyes open and if something looks promising ill let you know	18:53
lcuk	your mojos are cool	18:53
Lynoure	koyote: how does is it used?	18:54
koyote	that you need to look at wiki for, basic command is sudo gainroot	18:54
KotCzarny	ssh is better	18:55
KotCzarny	:>	18:55
KotCzarny	(for gaining root)	18:55
koyote	both work	18:55
KotCzarny	yup	18:55
* konttori published blog about theme maker		18:56
konttori	http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/	18:56
Lynoure	KotCzarny: I know ssh, but no idea how to use it to gain local root on OS2008, care to tell me?	18:57
koyote	okay, way too much work for a basic library, but it is there	18:57
qwerty12	konttori: Very nice! :)	18:58
koyote	Lynoure: ssh root@localhost	18:58
KotCzarny	lynoure: from laptop/pc: ssh root@you_nokia_ip	18:58
konttori	thanks qwerrty12	18:58
qwerty12	Thanks for the thememaker, yay, it works in Linux with Java 6 runtime. I couldn't get previous version to work in Linux (worked in XP) but I think I had Runtime 5.	19:00
koyote	okay, brb, switching locations	19:01
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konttori	qwerty12: I hope you'll now make some sweet themes with it!	19:05
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konttori	And when you do, please put those to maemo downloads as well!	19:05
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qwerty12	I can try :), hehe, My GIMP & Photoshop skills are very bad :p	19:07
qwerty12	But I hope more people make more themes, the only original ones i've seen for OS2008 are your NuvoPearl theme & Plankton	19:08
pupnik	jott: http://grumbel.blogspot.com/2008/03/state-of-pingus.html new overview of pingus TODO. If you have time/inclination please join #pingus and discuss performance with grumbel	19:09
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Lynoure	I could try to make a real bad theme... that ought to smooth the road for the timid ones :)	19:11
Lynoure	pupnik: even with libncurses5, libncursesw5 and ncurses-bin, I still get the same error	19:13
pupnik	can you paste error or give me more info?	19:13
Lynoure	pupnik: "Error opening terminal: xterm"	19:14
Lynoure	nothing more	19:14
pupnik	which OS?	19:15
Lynoure	os2008	19:15
pupnik	i have no ideas. will look for the error tonight though	19:16
pupnik	we're talking about angband, yes?	19:16
KotCzarny	xterm is in ncurses-base	19:16
KotCzarny	i mean terminals defs	19:17
KotCzarny	try apt-get install ncurses-base	19:17
pupnik	thank you KotCzarny \	19:17
KotCzarny	:)	19:17
KotCzarny	i believe someone had the same error with my playfilelist :)	19:17
pupnik	i knew that once but forgot	19:18
KotCzarny	libncurses should depend on ncurses-base imo	19:18
Lynoure	too many ncursesy things in the world :)	19:18
KotCzarny	dependency hell	19:18
KotCzarny	:)	19:18
KotCzarny	dependancy ?	19:18
Lynoure	works like charm now... I'll need to find some way not to make it grey on blue, though, but I bet there is an option for that	19:19
KotCzarny	you can edit xterm prefs	19:20
KotCzarny	or hack the source	19:20
KotCzarny	:)	19:20
Lynoure	-d did it	19:21
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lcuk	looking at Ti it says the omap includes an IVA (Imaging Video Adapter) - which looking around handles colorspace conversion and scaling. is this considered a part of the PowerVR (and hence NA for now) or is it just underused and could theoretically be used to convert SDL RGB into YUV for sending over the LCD bus?	19:23
Lynoure	pupnik: thank you for all the help	19:24
KotCzarny	i think iva is supported	19:24
KotCzarny	but i may be wrong	19:24
lcuk	if it is then SDL could use it properly	19:24
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KotCzarny	or maybe not	19:26
KotCzarny	what a pity.	19:27
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KotCzarny	http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/14683	19:28
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KotCzarny	Jakub.Pavelek at nokia :	19:29
KotCzarny	AFAIK there is no USB-OTG in N800. The connector (HW) does not handle it	19:29
KotCzarny	so no effort spent in the kernel either.	19:29
KotCzarny	hehehe	19:29
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KotCzarny	Jan 17, 2007,	19:30
KotCzarny	;)	19:30
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koyote	wheeeeee	19:30
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qwerty12	haha fanoush was a genius then as he is now	19:31
lcuk	KotCzarny, but usb otg is now in 08 kernel	19:31
KotCzarny	yup	19:31
KotCzarny	but look at the situation	19:31
KotCzarny	someone in nokia says: sorry, no go	19:31
KotCzarny	and then it changes to: working	19:32
KotCzarny	:)	19:32
lcuk	so asking the right questions may end up with support later :)	19:32
* KotCzarny just hopes they will do the same with iva and sbx ;)		19:32
koyote	okay, i am having trouble figuring out the step 6 -fanoush's modified initfs and bootmenu for cloning	19:32
KotCzarny	i mean mbx	19:32
lcuk	its the same with anything, we have customers calling asking for things, at the time we have to (as matter of policy) say no. when examining things and looking around at other things often a change becomes a simple thing and sources are adapted	19:32
KotCzarny	unless product goes end-of-life	19:33
lcuk	(although the customers who ask for a magic button which should know exactly what they want in that sspecific instance are the worst and they never get what they want)	19:33
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lcuk	i think once a product becomes abandonware it should be law that its spec is opened up. if you dont want to abandon it, great. but once you do you leave it in a reusable state for others	19:34
KotCzarny	not going to happen	19:35
koyote	that would be good practice	19:35
lcuk	i know	19:35
KotCzarny	see windows 3.x	19:35
KotCzarny	:>	19:35
koyote	it does happen sometimes	19:35
koyote	see many hp calculators	19:35
lcuk	technically, windows is still in development though	19:35
lcuk	thats just a single version	19:35
koyote	yah, same deal as simcity	19:35
koyote	the reason the original dos simcity isn't free is that they still develop the game	19:35
KotCzarny	but isn't it a different product now?	19:36
KotCzarny	completely rerwritten?	19:36
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lcuk	same product line	19:36
lcuk	but you might be right	19:36
lcuk	nokia could get round by saying they still make an n series	19:37
lcuk	maybe turn it away from software and just think hardware - after all we want to treat sw differently re patenting	19:38
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strayhikari	Howdy all	19:39
KotCzarny	http://komalshah.blogspot.com/2006/09/arr-linux-2618.html	19:39
KotCzarny	hum	19:39
strayhikari	Brand new user, just bought the n800 to replace my old palm. I was looking on maemo.org for a nive todo app, and found gTodo, but was wondering if there was somethign better or what other people used?	19:40
qwerty12	GPE?	19:40
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strayhikari	GPE?	19:41
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KotCzarny	GPE?	19:42
qwerty12	GPE?	19:42
qwerty12	http://www.cobb.uk.net/NokiaIT/#gpe	19:42
strayhikari	Cool, found it, I'll check it out, thanks	19:42
strayhikari	Have any advice for a new user?	19:43
qwerty12	You will also want http://axique.de/?f=GPE%20Summary with GPE	19:43
koyote	so i want to remove unneeded extra and factory stuff in initfs flashing?	19:43
qwerty12	Yes, if you want ssh & telnet	19:43
koyote	telnet? that's.... scary	19:44
qwerty12	Why?	19:44
koyote	telnet server on a wifi device that's going to be network hopping?	19:44
qwerty12	It's only enabled before bootup if you want it to.	19:45
koyote	ahso	19:45
qwerty12	It's not enabled when you are in maemo	19:45
qwerty12	It's meant for recovery if you mess up later on	19:45
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KotCzarny	http://www.linkedin.com/in/triloksoni	19:47
KotCzarny	search for IVA	19:47
KotCzarny	:>	19:47
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qwerty12	"	19:47
qwerty12	* Development of IVA (Image Video Accelarator) 1.0 bridge driver on OMAP-Linux. "?	19:47
KotCzarny	next one is nice too	19:47
qwerty12	ooh, I think I get you	19:48
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lcuk	i got to /me likes it when conversations start	19:51
lcuk	-i got to	19:51
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koyote	crap	20:00
koyote	./nupgrade.sh 0 is failing	20:00
koyote	sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 -l reports	20:01
koyote	/dev/mmcblk0p2 is linux partition type	20:01
koyote	but nupgrade.sh states cannot stat /dev/mmcblk0p2	20:01
koyote	!	20:01
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christefano	does the encryption and signing in OS 2008's default email program use PGP?	20:07
koyote	grrrrrrrrrrrrrr	20:07
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koyote	ah. rebooting fixed	20:08
koyote	weird	20:08
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koyote	okay, ince i am done with the nupgrade process, rebooting will automatically go into the cloned system?	20:09
qwerty12	nope, hold down menu on reboot	20:09
koyote	and do i WANT sardine?	20:10
qwerty12	nope	20:10
KotCzarny	or install bootmenu	20:10
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KotCzarny	:)	20:10
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koyote	i really want a usable system.	20:10
qwerty12	he's already got that installed from what I read :)	20:10
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KotCzarny	oh, then customize it	20:10
KotCzarny	:)	20:10
koyote	i have bootmenu, yeah	20:10
qwerty12	Defaults are quite nice on it :) , just use cal-tool to set default if you wish	20:10
qwerty12	Although I was in odd mode and I made a bootmenu.conf with support up to 5 partitions	20:11
KotCzarny	:)	20:11
qwerty12	Dunno why lol, I removed my Linux partition when I tried mmc clone :D	20:11
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koyote	cal-tool?	20:17
koyote	usb hard drive?	20:18
* koyote boots into new environment.		20:19
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koyote	okay, i can't format the dos side of the card now	20:19
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koyote	uh oh.	20:25
koyote	installing ssh is hanging. great.	20:26
KotCzarny	it probably asks for root pass	20:28
KotCzarny	ah	20:28
KotCzarny	and generating keys	20:28
KotCzarny	so wait	20:28
KotCzarny	:)	20:28
koyote	yah, took longer this time than last time	20:28
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koyote	now what? i guess a real bash and binutils, emacs, get the bt keyboard working.	20:32
* koyote has 880MB total, yay		20:32
KotCzarny	just don't set bash as a default shell	20:32
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koyote	536mb available. cool.	20:33
koyote	how stable is fanoush's kernel? the mmc high speed sounds..... interesting.	20:34
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KotCzarny	as long your card supports it	20:35
KotCzarny	:)	20:35
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koyote	yah. patriot 4gb sdhc, actually	20:39
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lopz	bye	20:43
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koyote	ad garnet vm. sweet	20:45
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* koyote grumbles about the bt keyboard		20:51
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koyote	i think something is really wrong here	20:52
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fysa	what's wrong with bt keyboard?	20:54
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koyote	won't pair	20:56
koyote	it's an older whink outside, originally purchased for a blackberry, which needed special drivers. so i wonder if it isn't actually hid	20:57
KotCzarny	try with a laptop pc	20:58
lcuk	fysa, could i bend your ear a little regarding a little xv app i wrote? its having cpu power issues and im wondering if theres a clean workaround	20:59
koyote	there are apparently 3 keys you press to set up pairing mode.	20:59
fysa	koyote, the IT recognizes the bluetooth keyboard, attempts to pair, shows you the code to type(?) but no further?	20:59
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koyote	but no one says what they are	21:00
fysa	ah, that's a different problem :)	21:00
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KotCzarny	koyote: look at the bottom of kb	21:00
koyote	fysa: well, i just found that	21:00
KotCzarny	mine has the magic code written there	21:00
koyote	KotCzarny: nope	21:00
lcuk	koyote, mail the manufacturer or search for product guide	21:00
fysa	lcuk, sure, but I can't make any promises -- xv neophyte here	21:00
lcuk	or check inside the battery cover	21:01
koyote	not there either	21:01
fysa	maybe take the batteries out for 30 minutes..	21:01
KotCzarny	mine has: ctrl - left fn - right fn	21:01
KotCzarny	keep them for few secs.	21:01
fysa	and see if it comes back up as pairable when it powers on.	21:01
KotCzarny	it makes it discoverable	21:01
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koyote	KotCzarny: what model?	21:01
KotCzarny	igo ultra slim	21:01
fysa	a trick that works on Windows is to hook up a USB keyboard also, type the passcode on the USB keyboard, then hit enter on the bluetooth keyboard.. ;)	21:02
KotCzarny	try looking for a manual in pdf	21:02
lcuk	ok fysa :) - i wrote a little book reader which has a blit routine to draw glyphs. during the course of doing it i noticed the cpu was slowing itself down unless i wiggled mouse. the more i have optimised it the more this problem has occured. i have solved it for testing by switching my cpu power saving onto performance but i cannot expect a user to do the same	21:02
KotCzarny	fysa: but you need to make kb discoverable first	21:02
KotCzarny	:)	21:02
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KotCzarny	lcuk: make a switch	21:03
KotCzarny	problem solved	21:03
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KotCzarny	:)	21:03
fysa	lcuk, I think this is an OS2008 bug.	21:03
lcuk	i dont think its a bug, its just not detecting i want to use the cpu	21:03
lcuk	lol - ok thats the definition of a bug	21:03
fysa	I mean -- the overly aggressive throttling	21:04
fysa	and how it also affects mmc speeds	21:04
lcuk	so leaving it as an option is about the only reasonable solution for time being and i shouldnt worry	21:04
KotCzarny	yup	21:05
KotCzarny	it should be decided by the user	21:05
lcuk	it shouldnt need to be decided	21:05
KotCzarny	more smooth or more battery	21:05
KotCzarny	people are different	21:05
KotCzarny	there's no fricking way to make one app for all	21:06
fysa	how does it work when you alter it prior to your blit functions, then set it back when the app is done?	21:06
koyote	i don't have the same keys as the current versions, apparently	21:06
KotCzarny	koyote: find the manual in pdf?	21:07
KotCzarny	:)	21:07
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fysa	how long does it take for the CPU to scale up?	21:08
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lcuk	at the moment if i leave it as default it winds back to 9fps and judders more (though no tearing), if i enable it then it runs at 27fps and moves smoothly	21:08
KotCzarny	instant if you touch the dsptask ;)	21:08
fysa	or does it never scale from your function?	21:08
koyote	right, it's the think outside shasta model	21:08
lcuk	im not sure but im writing it to the "/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor" field	21:08
KotCzarny	you shouldn't touch it without user's consent	21:09
KotCzarny	:)	21:09
lcuk	i wanted a way to put my process into a higher priority mode, but in reading it sounds like it wouldnt change stepping	21:09
fysa	mp3task?	21:09
lcuk	100% kot	21:09
lcuk	well kot has suggested this	21:09
KotCzarny	i think dsptask would do also	21:09
lcuk	it very well might work, i will have to see how it goes	21:09
KotCzarny	think: scrolling sounds ;)	21:10
KotCzarny	and tapping	21:10
lcuk	well, i did want to try using the dsp as a blitter ;)	21:10
KotCzarny	will work too	21:10
KotCzarny	if you manage to make a dsp routine ;)	21:10
lcuk	ill give it a try, because it feels dirty setting the governor	21:11
fysa	I believe general performance in OS2008 is worse than OS2007 unless you're pegging the CPU, the aggressive thresholds they use for throttling work to keep the battery life comparable while giving you more top-end seem to fall apart even when simply web browsing..	21:11
lcuk	i think i will end up writing a hand waving parser sometime	21:11
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koyote	aha	21:12
lcuk	yer it scales back quickly enough but doesnt trigger itself up to max easily	21:12
koyote	the shasta isn't bt hid	21:12
koyote	it is serial	21:12
koyote	fanoush at one time had a driver for it for the 770	21:12
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lcuk	right, ill head down the dsp route and see if initialising it leaves me up at full	21:12
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lcuk	thx fysa & kot :)	21:13
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fysa	device/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ondemand/up_threshold? maybe sampling_rate	21:13
fysa	are those in use for us?	21:13
KotCzarny	probably	21:13
koyote	this may be hard	21:14
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KotCzarny	koyote: try pairing this kb with a pc first :>	21:14
lcuk	root use = yes - its RO for user	21:14
fysa	lcuk, as you find yourself in a good position to test these things.. you may want to play with up_threshold and sampling_rate	21:15
fysa	to see if you can get it to jump up to full CPU more quickly	21:15
koyote	KotCzarny: it is not hid	21:15
koyote	it isn't.	21:15
KotCzarny	koyote: :>	21:15
koyote	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-6129.html	21:15
lcuk	ok fysa - i will have a twiddle before i alter everything for dsp	21:15
koyote	it is the shasta model	21:15
fysa	because whatever you find that makes your scrolling smooth, that's what I want to use system-wide ;)	21:15
KotCzarny	serial sounds as a battery sucker	21:15
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koyote	older bt connection method shrug	21:16
koyote	i may try to get it working	21:16
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qwerty12_N800	Fanoush has a serial kbd driver on his site	21:16
qwerty12_N800	For os2008	21:16
fysa	sampling_rate = 156250	21:16
fysa	up_threshold = 80	21:17
koyote	qwerty12_N800: yah, i saw it, going to download	21:17
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qwerty12_N800	Skeen, good luck with it :)	21:17
fysa	that means 80% of the currently scaled CPU sends you to the next level up	21:18
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fysa	I believe.	21:18
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kpel	hi all	21:18
qwerty12_N800	Hello	21:18
kpel	can you tell me what is the right(TM) way to install the latest SDK?	21:19
kpel	Are the scripts for the sdk and scratchbox the way to go?	21:19
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keesj	kpel: the "best" thing is to download the applicance , it gives the less troubles	21:22
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keesj	http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/	21:22
kpel	keesj: not sure what you mean. you mean i should install scratchbox without the script provided?	21:22
kpel	ok i'll have a look	21:23
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keesj	that is really the no brain approach . but installing sbox and such is certainly not an impossible task	21:24
kpel	keesj: i agree 100%. it just seems to be the case that the provided script doesn't work for me although it uses apt-get to do everything (and according to maemo.org is the only supported solution)	21:25
kpel	Setting up scratchbox-devkit-perl (1.0.4) ...	21:25
kpel	E: Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc' is not executable.	21:25
kpel	E: Something went wrong with the install. Sorry.	21:25
kpel	there is no bin directory in /scratchbox/compilers	21:25
Veggen	kpel: any errors earlier than that?	21:26
kpel	nop	21:26
kpel	5G of disk space for the vmware thing? i don't have that much :)	21:27
kpel	i'l;l try to install scratchbox manually	21:27
qwerty12_N800	Which distribution are u installing it on?	21:28
kpel	qwerty12_N800: xubuntu 7.10	21:28
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qwerty12_N800	Were you installing with -d argument? I'm 80% sure that gets dpkg packages rather than tar files	21:29
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kpel	qwerty12_N800: accordign tot he script on debian-based distros the default is -d	21:30
fireun	searched the maemo.org site, found nothing - Problem and QUESTION is - why does my wifi not find any nodes anymore? just suddenly happened, worked at the cafe, doesnt work at home - rebooted home wireless, no change, reflashed 770 with latest HE - no change.	21:31
kpel	the packages were downloaded fine. there was a complain that the packages cannot be authenticated but installation proceeded until the error	21:31
qwerty12_N800	Oh ok, i installed with -d option manually 8-)	21:31
keesj	fireun: I have / had the same problems on my 770	21:32
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fireun	keesj: the wierdest thing is - I have two 770s, and they both are doing it now	21:33
qwerty12_N800	kpel: which version are you installing?	21:33
keesj	once it started even going back to it2007 did not seam to resolve the prolbem	21:33
fireun	keesj: normally, both have been online recently. the media player went borked as well	21:33
KotCzarny	fireun: burned wifi?	21:33
fireun	KotCzarny: on two 770s?	21:33
KotCzarny	:)	21:33
keesj	If I play long enough (or wait while in the "detection" dialog at one point it kind of starts working	21:34
fireun	KotCzarny: the one I use the most is usually streaming music, so sure, I could understand one going out, but both?	21:34
KotCzarny	emp?	21:34
KotCzarny	:>	21:34
kpel	qwerty12_N800: scratchbox-core_1.0.8	21:34
fireun	KotCzarny: thats it	21:34
fireun	KotCzarny: micro-emp	21:34
KotCzarny	:)	21:34
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fireun	keesj: its almost like the media player corruption and wifi breaking are related	21:35
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fireun	running 4.2008.7-1 (updated today) on the most used 770	21:36
qwerty12_N800	Kpell:My bad, what number do the scripts have on them?	21:36
fireun	keesj: its like its been "deactivated"	21:36
qwerty12_N800	*kpel	21:36
kpel	qwerty12_N800: maemo-scratchbox-install_4.0.1.sh and maemo-sdk-install_4.0.1.sh	21:36
kpel	took them yesterday from amemo.org	21:37
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kpel	maemo.org	21:37
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fireun	well I'm just goint to assume a conspiracy - one losing its wifi is one thing, BOTH 770s losing it on the same day, very sceptical of that being "natural causes"	21:39
qwerty12_N800	That's odd, I used them scripts on ubuntu fine :( i just used this guide http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=453 and mounted the vmware appliance and took the great bits from that :p	21:39
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fireun	and I'll keep lurking, randomly asking if anyone has any diagnostic ideas to figuring out why no wifi no mo	21:40
fireun	):	21:40
lcuk	is it ANY wireless thats missing, or specifically just yours	21:42
fireun	searching finds no connections	21:42
qwerty12_N800	Does dmesg say anything?	21:43
fireun	and I know there are several findable nearby besides mine	21:43
fireun	reinstalling xterm to do that, yeh	21:43
keesj	fireun: and if you first enter a new connection (via the menu->settings thingy?)	21:43
lcuk	but if the problem at your house effects 2 770s and at least one completely flashed then it might be just your house	21:43
fireun	lcuk: seems reasonable, but thats not what I'm seeing	21:43
fireun	lcuk: two 770s with no findable wifis	21:43
lcuk	do you have a wifi computer to check from?	21:44
fireun	lcuk: yeah, my laptop finds several nodes	21:44
lcuk	an EM pulse might have gone off around you - there arent thousands of dead bodies around and other electrical stuff isnt broken is it	21:45
lcuk	if you have a newly flashed model, did you restore the backup after flashing - if so it could have something to do with software installed on both	21:45
lcuk	if you could check immediately after reflashing but not restoring anything	21:46
fireun	dmesg shows scanning 11 channels, shows omapfb_notifier going thru state changes, and aic23 powering up , initing, then powering down	21:46
fireun	and then cycles that last three	21:46
fireun	what is aic23?	21:46
fireun	did not use backup-restore	21:46
fireun	lcuk: oh, no dead bodies, just lots of slavering zombies?	21:47
lcuk	damn, it looks like your town has been infested by Microsoft staff	21:47
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lcuk	it does sound strange that both went down at same time	21:48
strayhikari	Is there any way to have 2008 installed, but use the 2007 theme?	21:49
qwerty12_N800	fireun: this sounds odd but what does "chroot /mnt/initfs/ wlan-cal" do? I get - Pushing default country...[OK]	21:49
qwerty12_N800	Pushing MAC address...[OK]	21:49
qwerty12_N800	Pushing IQ tuned values...[OK]	21:49
qwerty12_N800	Pushing TX tuned values...[OK]	21:49
qwerty12_N800	Pushing TX limits...[OK]	21:49
qwerty12_N800	Pushing RX tuned values...Using default values [OK]	21:49
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qwerty12_N800	strayhikari: i'm wanting the same thing :D	21:50
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strayhikari	qwerty12: ya I love the smaller menus, and the 2007 icons on the left side of the screen look so much nicer than the 2008 icons	21:50
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fireun	qwerty12_N800: chroot not found (:	21:51
qwerty12_N800	strayhikari: Menus I don't think are set by the the theme :(	21:51
qwerty12_N800	fireun: must be a 2008 thing then :&	21:52
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qwerty12_N800	*:(	21:52
strayhikari	bummer	21:53
strayhikari	What about those icons, do you know how to change those qwerty12?	21:53
fireun	qwerty12_N800: yeah, I'm really confused about the loss of wifi on two 770s	21:53
fireun	StRanGE	21:53
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qwerty12_N800	strayhikari: They are in the pixmaps folder afaik. I would like a dump of the /usr/share/themes from os2007 (anyone? :D)	21:54
qwerty12_N800	fireun: That's odd :(	21:54
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Italodance	where is libgdbm3 in maemo?	21:55
fireun	qwerty12_N800: I'm at a loss to explain it	21:56
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Italodance	please send it	21:57
qwerty12_N800	fireun:have you tried the sysklogd daemon?	21:58
fireun	qwerty12_N800: I was at my gf's connected to a sketchy openwifi, came home to plug it into the stereo, no connection - tried the other 770 just to get music going and it also couldnt find any wifi nodes, walked around the house, nada from both. WiERd	21:58
fireun	qwerty12_N800: you'll have to be more explicit, something I need to install?	21:58
MangoFusion	hey guys	21:58
qwerty12_N800	fireun: Yes, sorry,brb	21:59
fireun	qwerty12_N800: have rebooted the home wifi and modem just for shits and giggles, no change	21:59
fireun	both were running HE two versions back	21:59
fireun	maybe it was a bug	21:59
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fireun	turned off something in the hardware or lower level wifi config files	22:00
MangoFusion	i'm curious	22:01
MangoFusion	would anyone here pay for software on their IT?	22:01
KotCzarny	nope	22:01
KotCzarny	:)	22:01
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KotCzarny	but donating	22:01
KotCzarny	that's something different	22:01
KotCzarny	:)	22:01
Italodance	:''(	22:01
MangoFusion	interesting	22:01
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KotCzarny	unless you get powervr libs	22:02
KotCzarny	;)	22:02
koyote	there are a fw things i would pay for, maybe.	22:02
Jaffa	KotCzarny: as an author, I'm not sure I'd even want the donations. I'd just want enough users and positive comments to assure me a discount on the next device ;-)	22:02
koyote	donations are fine, and preferred	22:02
qwerty12_N800	fireun: 'apt-get install sysklogd' should do it. i only did it on chinook, are you in os2006?	22:02
strayhikari	KotCzarny: does the n800 have a powervr chip in it?	22:03
KotCzarny	yup	22:03
KotCzarny	but no libs	22:03
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strayhikari	damn ;_;	22:03
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qwerty12_N800	fireun: If you keep the wifi on, set it to auto connect and reboot and check /var/log/syslog	22:03
strayhikari	that would rock, video woudl be so much better?	22:03
fireun	qwerty12_N800: no net connection, will have to get the package manually, then usb-copy	22:03
fireun	qwerty12_N800: using HE-2008 at the moment	22:04
KotCzarny	strayhikari: maybe	22:04
qwerty12_N800	Ok, I'll check for depends	22:04
qwerty12_N800	Ok, ttat shouldnt be a prob then	22:04
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strayhikari	Can anyone recommend some software for encoding/optomizing videos for the n800?	22:04
fireun	strayhikari: look thru the maemo wiki	22:05
strayhikari	ok	22:05
koyote	mediautils?	22:05
qwerty12_N800	fireun: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/s/sysklogd/ grab klogd_1.4.1-17.osso1_armel.deb 20.02.2008 & sysklogd_1.4.1-17.osso1_armel.deb 20.02.2008 15:41 56152	22:06
qwerty12_N800	Installing with dpkg will be easier	22:06
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Italodance	qwerty12_N800	22:07
Italodance	qwerty12_N800 where is libgdbm3 in maemo?	22:08
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qwerty12_N800	Wait a min	22:09
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qwerty12_N800	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/g/gdbm/libgdbm3_1.8.3-2_armel.deb	22:10
Jaffa	strayhikari: as koyote says, http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/ - I'm just working on a new version of tablet-encode as we speak	22:11
Italodance	qwerty12_N800 thank u 1000 :D	22:11
qwerty12_N800	Np :)	22:11
Italodance	umm what about libreadline4 (4.3-1) ?	22:15
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Italodance	tnx no need	22:18
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GNUton	Hi	22:20
qwerty12_N800	Hello	22:20
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qwerty12_N800	Irc over Rtcomm is nice w00t!	22:24
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strayhikari	Jaffa: cool! Thanks for the info	22:25
strayhikari	I'll definitely be checking out your stuff tonight	22:25
AStorm	qwerty12_N800: nah, no nick completion	22:30
AStorm	xchat is better	22:30
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qwerty12_N800	Do you have xchat on tablets?	22:30
* Brains installed xchat on his N810... He plans on switching to irssi at some point though. XChat just annoys him even though he's been using it everywhere recently.		22:31
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qwerty12_N800	N810 hmm, I need something with hildon keyboard support	22:32
qwerty12_N800	Irssi annoyed me	22:32
AStorm	qwerty12_N800: I found some beta in dusty corner of the interne	22:34
AStorm	for chinook	22:34
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AStorm	2.8.4	22:34
Tama^2	google for xchat chicnook	22:34
lmoura	Anybody knows how to get fakeroot + popen (C function) to work on armel targets?	22:34
qwerty12_N800	Ah ok thanks all	22:34
lmoura	sample C code: http://pastebin.com/d67012c14	22:34
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Italodance	qwerty12_N800 do u have python2.5-osso_0.3 ?	22:36
qwerty12_N800	That one i cannot help with, pymaemo should be done from app manager or apt-get, quite a lot of packages afaicr	22:37
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Italodance	http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/p/python-osso/python2.5-osso_0.3-1osso3_armel.deb	22:39
Italodance	:D	22:39
qwerty12_N800	Fookin brilliant, xchat is hildonised afaic, thanks again!	22:40
AStorm	it mostly is	22:40
AStorm	text area could use scrolling instead of selection	22:40
qwerty12_N800	I use it as main client in linux & mirc in windows	22:40
AStorm	mirc bites	22:41
AStorm	use xchat for windows from silverex	22:41
qwerty12_N800	I kinda like mirc with nonamescript	22:41
KotCzarny	hmm	22:41
KotCzarny	anyone noticed	22:41
KotCzarny	n800 plastic case has some 'red dust' in it?	22:42
KotCzarny	visible in direct sunlight	22:42
Tama^2	qwerty12_N800: partially hindonized, yes :)	22:42
AStorm	don't have N800	22:42
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AStorm	s/partially/mostly/	22:42
\|\|cw	don't worry, that's just radioactive material, so you are easier to track by satellite	22:42
KotCzarny	ah, ok	22:43
\|\|cw	opps, i wasn't supposed to say that	22:43
KotCzarny	i thought it was toxic ;)	22:43
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qwerty12	i'm just testin 8-) :p	22:44
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qwerty12_N800	Yes, I like it :)	22:45
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AStorm	use the zoom key to switch chans	22:45
AStorm	full whammy	22:45
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qwerty12_N800	I'm only ever in #maemo. Sad but I never used irc before except for #xbins	22:46
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AStorm	well, I'm on a few chans	22:46
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qwerty12_N800	Italodance: stop private messaging me. I'm on a slow tablet, I don't have the energy to find packages. Just get a router.	22:48
AStorm	slow? roffles	22:48
AStorm	are using Treo or what?	22:48
AStorm	:P	22:48
qwerty12_N800	MicroB goes really slow for me p	22:48
qwerty12_N800	+:P	22:49
dtahtbot	qwerty12_N800: Error: ":P" is not a valid command.	22:49
AStorm	heh, nope	22:49
AStorm	it's fast enough	22:49
KotCzarny	qwerty: use links -g	22:49
KotCzarny	:)	22:49
AStorm	not in repos!	22:49
KotCzarny	pf	22:49
KotCzarny	compile one !	22:50
KotCzarny	;)	22:50
AStorm	:P	22:50
KotCzarny	or i can give you binary	22:50
KotCzarny	:P	22:50
AStorm	or rebuild microb with newer trunk	22:50
qwerty12_N800	Links & links2 are already compiled :)	22:50
KotCzarny	:)	22:50
AStorm	my stupid vmware-server went on a strike	22:50
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qwerty12_N800	I'm not so hot on ncurses on n800 though.	22:51
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KotCzarny	links2 is graphical	22:51
KotCzarny	ie. x.orgish	22:51
AStorm	but not hildon	22:51
AStorm	X suckkit	22:51
KotCzarny	works for me.	22:51
KotCzarny	:)	22:52
qwerty12_N800	:) I'm slow with xkbd tho :(	22:52
AStorm	yup	22:53
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qwerty12_N800	This is one of the many times where I wished I had a bt keyboard :p (no, not a n810 :p)	22:54
* KotCzarny has one		22:54
KotCzarny	25$	22:54
KotCzarny	:)	22:54
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keesj	fireun: can you try something for me?	22:54
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qwerty12_N800	Kotczarny: not bad, do they have uk shipping? ;P exchange rate is nice...	22:55
KotCzarny	erm	22:55
KotCzarny	don't know	22:55
KotCzarny	but i hunted it down on CL	22:55
KotCzarny	:)	22:55
qwerty12_N800	Lol, I was j/king :), i'm broke! :O :p	22:56
koyote	i may end up having to buy one if the kbdd stuff doesn't start working	22:57
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koyote	and i suspect it won't be as stable as an hid keyboard anyhow	22:58
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KotCzarny	http://www.tuaw.com/2007/03/18/tux-paint-open-source-kids-paint-program/	23:00
KotCzarny	:)	23:00
KotCzarny	'the coolest thing I've noticed about the program is that it actually has stereo sound. If you drag your brush from the left side to the right side of the screen, you can hear it going across your blank pallette.'	23:01
KotCzarny	:>	23:01
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qwerty12	router h8s me	23:02
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Mikho	hmm... tell me if I got this right. If I reflash my 770 with the USB port in host mode, I can't connect it to my computer any more?	23:04
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KotCzarny	lcuk: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_usetouchscreenpressuredata/	23:07
KotCzarny	:)	23:07
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eichi	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/NuvoPearl/ isn't it dangarous anymore to use a new theme like this? months ago, there was a star trak theme, which destroyed the desktop and cant deinstalled anymore...what about this?	23:09
KotCzarny	no problem here	23:09
KotCzarny	worked ok	23:09
KotCzarny	(n800, os2008)	23:09
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eichi	okay	23:11
qwerty12	nuvopearl is safe, it's not as hardcore as lcars	23:11
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Tama^2	eichi: just remember to never uninstall a "running" theme	23:15
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qwerty12	i did, nightmare..., i had to reinstall theme, lucky i didn't reboot	23:16
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* Brains likes his LCARS. (But he's married so he can't be all that far gone on the geeky scale... Right?)		23:19
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* qwerty12 isn't a trekkie		23:19
lcuk	KotCzarny, i have implimented that already :)	23:23
lcuk	i get raw mouse events now instead of up/down/motion	23:23
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lcuk	i was playing with strokes and other stuff before i cleaned up the playtest. ive got a tiny drawing app and handwriting program (I was originally going to use handwriting as the base glyphs but ttf came together quicker)	23:26
konttori	eichi: yeah. nuvopearl is perfectly safe.	23:26
konttori	ThemeMaker produces 'safe' content.	23:26
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lcuk	eichi, the lcars theme also installed other things and did more than just changed the actual theme	23:27
lcuk	it was a pack which included theme + other tweaks which were not directly themable	23:28
qwerty12	I want to see adria in chinook :(. mounting jffs2 image has screwy permissions	23:29
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lcuk	aliens in Nivens: "A mote in gods eye" are linux hackers.	23:43
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lcuk	(that was a public information broadcast)	23:44
jaska	o.O	23:44
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KotCzarny	http://fishki.net/comment.php?id=32850	23:47
KotCzarny	:>	23:47
KotCzarny	lcuk: link?	23:47
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lcuk	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mote_in_God's_Eye :) go find the book yourself of get it from a store	23:48
* lcuk has read lots of niven :)		23:48
KotCzarny	ah. book.	23:48
KotCzarny	i thought aliens have landed	23:49
KotCzarny	:>	23:49
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lcuk	nahh as i am reading it im noticing they hack everything	23:50
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Mikho	hello, does anyone know if connection between two usb host ports is supposed to work?	23:56
KotCzarny	nope	23:56
Mikho	sure?	23:57
KotCzarny	yup	23:57
Mikho	argh	23:57
KotCzarny	but you can put nokia's port in device mode	23:57
Mikho	without reflashing?	23:57
KotCzarny	yup	23:57
Mikho	how?	23:57
KotCzarny	there was a statusbar tool	23:57
KotCzarny	and probably via writing to /sys somewhere will work too	23:58
Mikho	hmm	23:59

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