IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-03-22

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KaaLi	hi	00:09
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KaaLi	problem with rdesktop.. possible to get any other keyboard layot to it... it has US one i think.. i could use finnish..	00:10
\|\|cw	doens't it just use what the host uses?	00:12
KaaLi	nope... if i type to web browser it uses finnish layout	00:14
KaaLi	like / is hard to use with that rdesktop	00:15
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KotCzarny	hehe	00:15
KaaLi	and any oher mix	00:15
KaaLi	other key from mixed kb.. :D	00:15
KotCzarny	can you switch desktop to us kb?	00:15
KotCzarny	and i think you can set tablet to finnish kb too	00:16
KaaLi	i thik it uses finnish layout cuz it gives keys out it suppose to.. everywhere else but in rdesktop	00:17
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KotCzarny	you can try vnc..	00:17
KaaLi	rdesktop uses US layout for some reason	00:17
KotCzarny	if anything else fails :)	00:17
KaaLi	sure i can.. but it requires installin server	00:17
KotCzarny	tightvnc is a free one	00:18
KotCzarny	and easy to setup	00:18
KotCzarny	:)	00:18
GeneralAntilles	Hrm, I really wonder what's going on with texrat and his internal blogging.	00:18
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pupnik	http://youtube.com/watch?v=7K4veJMCM_Q Nokia R&D showing off accelerated OpenGL ES on N810, 2:06 and 2:09-2:13 in the video	00:25
KotCzarny	mmm	00:26
KotCzarny	but it was posted already?	00:26
pupnik	yeah some ppl might have missed it	00:26
KotCzarny	ah, ok	00:26
KotCzarny	:)	00:26
glass	i missed it	00:26
glass	very nice	00:26
KotCzarny	pupnik: start a blog? :>	00:26
glass	i'm here so i don't need to read blogs	00:27
pupnik	glass, so how do we get them to share it? :)	00:27
glass	pupnik: dunno. violence pops to mind	00:27
pupnik	hahahaha	00:28
KotCzarny	violence against international corp?	00:28
KotCzarny	bad idea	00:28
KotCzarny	:>	00:28
pupnik	Well i will write a begging email now	00:28
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glass	a little letter bomb always brings things to attention	00:28
KotCzarny	or uploads all their harddrives to p2p	00:29
glass	hah	00:29
lcuk_2	it doesnt ring true that all processing is occuring on the 810 -> the sketch app displays at fullscreen without showing maemo borders. the ogl anim is full detailed on big screen and laughably simple on maemo	00:30
lcuk_2	i think its a set of mirrored programs running on a proper machine rather than hard processing for 2 displays	00:30
GeneralAntilles	The PowerVR is either in the USB dongle or the dongle on the TV.	00:32
GeneralAntilles	As far as I've been able to gather, anyway.	00:32
KotCzarny	lcuk: still, could be a nice app to have	00:33
KotCzarny	especially if they add divx decoding :>	00:33
lcuk_2	at the start he plugs it into the standard nokia usb cable which (i assume) goes into a usb hub on the monitor (or under it). the monitor data cable itself falls to the ground as if it was going to a tower box - if he just connected it into a usb display dongle the monitor data cable would curl back up into the dongle	00:34
lcuk_2	(incidentally, i sit my nokia under the monitor like that)	00:35
GeneralAntilles	I was going on more what was said than random crap from the YouTube video. :P	00:35
pupnik	lcuk_2: your analysis looks correct. Also the resolutions of the scrolling images in the picture viewer are different	00:35
KotCzarny	http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/digital/fiona/general/gateway_jeff_final._V9648910_.jpg	00:35
KotCzarny	lol	00:35
Tama^2	I think it's funny that there is allegedly not enough bandwidth to use the on board powerVR but something like that is attempted	00:36
GeneralAntilles	Why, Tama^2?	00:36
Cptnodegard	does canola have a file limit or is it just retarded by default?	00:38
lcuk_2	the framebuffer sits in regular memory, if we can fill that memory with data from anywhere it canl be displayed. its resolution can be altered to anything reasonable and the lcd handles it fine. it handles plenty of formats. nokia, why cant we have the .ko intended for the powervr?	00:38
Tama^2	because I feel the hardware is so badly broken I am disappointed	00:38
GeneralAntilles	Cptnodegard, the term you're looking for is "beta".	00:38
pupnik	for the price of a kindle i'd take a N800 plus kbd	00:38
Tama^2	external display is cool.. .but I want a fully working unit before I want nice extras available	00:38
Cptnodegard	it keeps updating just some of the music in the watched folder	00:38
yllus	General Antilles? Nice to see that Wedge got a promotion or two	00:39
lcuk_2	pup, so you would also be happy if it worked in black and white then? :D	00:39
GeneralAntilles	Extended universe, yllus.	00:39
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GeneralAntilles	Tama^2, it's not like they can do anything about the bandwidth issues after manufacture	00:40
GeneralAntilles	and these guys don't really have anything to do with Nokia proper.	00:40
yllus	I only got through the first bunch of books. When they introduced the dude who stole the Sun Crusher... meh.	00:40
Tama^2	I know, mine is just "the cry of the disappointed geek"(tm)	00:40
GeneralAntilles	N900 will fix all.	00:41
GeneralAntilles	I know it. :D	00:41
edistar	GeneralAntilles: will it have gsm?	00:41
GeneralAntilles	I fucking hope not.	00:41
edistar	:D	00:41
KotCzarny	it's not even announced	00:41
lcuk_2	actually gen, the bandwidth isnt that much of a problem. running games at a lower resolution than your desktop has NEVER been seen as a bad thing - its almost expected. at lower res there is plenty of bandwidth	00:41
Tama^2	yeah, right GA. it will bring world peace as well ;)	00:41
Navi	Of course it will	00:41
Navi	Everyone knows Nokia is capable of manufacturing peace from their assembly lines	00:42
lcuk_2	400*480 is a super compromise and still better than iphone	00:42
yllus	yes. Airdrop N900s into the Gaza Strip and watch the love bloom	00:42
GeneralAntilles	lcuk_2, well, we really don't know what kind of issues the setup they're using introduce to getting the PowerVR to run properly.	00:42
GeneralAntilles	Plus, I've never considered resolution reduction a viable performance compromise on MY computer. :P	00:42
lcuk_2	thats a nice 320*200 desktop you must like to use then ;)	00:43
Navi	:/	00:43
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GeneralAntilles	Er . . . sure. :\	00:43
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lcuk_2	powervr is just another coprocessor like the dsp	00:43
KotCzarny	it seems like Nokia will introduce a WiMAX-enabled version on April 1 at CTIA. So claims Boy Genius and his tipsters	00:44
KotCzarny	hehe	00:44
KotCzarny	april 1st is a bad time to announce anything	00:44
KotCzarny	:>	00:44
lcuk_2	it works well on the iphone, on the other n series devices and in lots of other places. why not here?	00:44
GeneralAntilles	We've been over this before. :P	00:44
Jsoet	does anyone know, when you're using the scratchbox environment, are you able to connect to the internet using it? Or do you need to use an actual device?	00:45
GeneralAntilles	lcuk_2, anyway, especially with LCDs, resolution reduction is pretty stupid.	00:45
lcuk_2	and i will probably keep going over it until it gets attention. it really gets my goat that for no technical reason something which could make a dramatic difference to the user experience is left off	00:45
KotCzarny	jsoet: as long hosting machine is connected, then yes	00:45
lcuk_2	GeneralAntilles, i bet you cant even SEE one pixel properly	00:45
GeneralAntilles	Reducing quality settings is both more effective and less of a quality impact.	00:45
Jsoet	Like when I try and connect using the conic library it just sends me a disconnected event saying that nothing was wrong and that it's just disconnected... is there something else I have to do other than just request a connection?	00:46
KotCzarny	lcuk: there's a difference seeing hires vid and pixeldoubled one	00:46
pupnik	lcuk_2: you're right, the GL apps on the N810 are only displaying a few polygons - i.e. the whale is displayed but no sharks, and there is only one building showin on the rotating green rectangle at 2:09	00:46
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, lcuk_2, that kind of the point of having a high DPI.	00:46
KotCzarny	noticeable	00:46
fysa	so where do I get NoBounds?	00:47
KotCzarny	jsoet: hum, does it depend on some service running?	00:47
Tama^2	I honestly care little about 3D games or animations. I just want a smooth UI and no tearing	00:47
GeneralAntilles	Running an LCD at non-native resolutions just plain looks like shit.	00:47
GeneralAntilles	Well, that you wont get with this hardware, Tama^2. :P	00:48
pupnik	looks fine with mplayer GeneralAntilles	00:48
Tama^2	so I can read without my eyes hurting	00:48
lcuk_2	GeneralAntilles, 400*480 isnt really none native, it just makes slightly fatter squarer pixels	00:48
GeneralAntilles	Videos are different, pupnik.	00:48
pupnik	Tama^2: yes some solution for faster scrolling of pages would be nice	00:48
pupnik	GeneralAntilles: pixel doubled games look fine to me also :/	00:49
GeneralAntilles	My point was re your belief that resolution reduction is a viable method of performance compromise. :P	00:49
GeneralAntilles	Erm, any resolution that isn't divided by 2.	00:49
lcuk_2	for gaming it is	00:49
Tama^2	pup: I would be even ready to accept 400x480 (with hw doubling) as standard if it helped	00:49
GeneralAntilles	1 pixel for 4 is fine	00:49
GeneralAntilles	but 1 pixel for 2.5 looks like crap.	00:50
GeneralAntilles	As the pixel edges get messed up.	00:50
pupnik	Yes, and who wants to read lo-res text - not me	00:50
Navi	Tama^2++	00:51
Tama^2	O.o	00:51
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Tama^3	:)	00:51
Navi	:/	00:51
Tama^3	you plus-plussed me :P	00:51
KotCzarny	no, it would be tamatamatama	00:51
Navi	(Tama^2)++	00:52
Tama^3	I know I know	00:52
lcuk_2	then write the desktop to use full 800*480 YCbCr	00:52
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KotCzarny	lcuk: xgl ?	00:52
KotCzarny	;)	00:52
lcuk_2	xgl would be great with the pvr	00:52
lcuk_2	xv works now natively and has enough bandwidth to get a frame displayed, but there is a point if you feed it data too slowly it will tear - feed it even more and it drops frame smoothly	00:53
KotCzarny	getting metacity with wobble and rest of eyecandies running would rock	00:53
KotCzarny	:>	00:53
lcuk_2	yes, the iphone interface works because the pvr does the blitting	00:53
pupnik	and smooth as glass scrolling of webpages would be nice	00:53
fysa	webkit	00:53
lcuk_2	glass scrolling is available now :)	00:54
KotCzarny	how about horizontal-lens zoom like?	00:54
KotCzarny	:>	00:54
lcuk_2	quickie, if i was just going to send a zip out with an exe a font and an example document where would you normally put it to test it? i know it wont run if extracted into mmc2 because thats not executable fs.	00:55
lcuk_2	horiz lens?	00:55
edistar	lcuk_2: where is glass scrolling?	00:56
KotCzarny	lcuk, zoomed in the centre, zoomed out ad the top/bottom	00:56
lcuk_2	ive been copying all my exes to /usr/bin/liq/.... but where would you run them from?	00:56
GeneralAntilles	Windows user. :P	00:57
KotCzarny	/usr/local/s?bin is the place	00:57
yllus	hey, neat. While I wasn't looking someone came out with "quiver". Now I'm going to have to use my 770 as a digital photo frame.	00:57
lcuk_2	edistar - its in that folder at present, i want to zip up a test app to send out	00:57
GeneralAntilles	/usr/local/bin personally.	00:57
lcuk_2	but its got the data along side it - this wont be installable, thats a whole other bridge to cross	00:57
KotCzarny	use a config file	00:58
KotCzarny	and make dep to put correct line into it	00:58
KotCzarny	at the install time	00:58
KotCzarny	that way binary can read it and it can be changed by user later	00:58
lcuk_2	would people rather i spent another few days learning about config files or would you like to see and try a little test?	00:58
edistar	lcuk_2: test	00:59
KotCzarny	lcuk: they wouldn't have to learn anything	00:59
KotCzarny	you can prepare config file and put it into the package	00:59
Navi	it only takes like an hour	00:59
KotCzarny	or just add echo line into postinstall	00:59
Navi	that is, if you're slow >_>	00:59
lcuk_2	whoa now, i cant install anything	00:59
KotCzarny	:)	01:00
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Navi	How uh, what's glass scrolling :/	01:00
lcuk_2	i have ZERO knowledge of this alien filesystem at present and i dunno what to do to get it started, i have been looking at other matters	01:00
Navi	s/How/Now/	01:00
infobot	Navi meant: Now uh, what's glass scrolling :/	01:00
Navi	Ooh, forgot about the bot	01:00
lcuk_2	full 27fps fullscreen scrolling :)	01:00
KotCzarny	lcuk: learn from exampless	01:00
KotCzarny	:)	01:00
lcuk_2	lots to learn	01:00
KotCzarny	just unpack some other deb	01:00
Navi	/usr/local/ is like /usr/, but made for unmanaged stuff (self-built stuff and such)	01:01
Navi	well, it can be used for anything :P	01:01
Jsoet	KotCzarny: I looked into it a bit and I guess libconic isn't implemented on scratchbox: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?format=multiple&id=1597 thanks for your help though	01:02
lcuk_2	ive never done anything like this before - i have install shield to do everything :S	01:02
KotCzarny	jsoet: oh, ok	01:03
KotCzarny	lcuk: i believe load-applet has some postinstall scripts	01:05
KotCzarny	you can steal them	01:05
KotCzarny	:>	01:05
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lcuk_2	i dont wanna install anything - its expecting data to be in same folder and i dont wanna pollute any standard folders	01:06
KotCzarny	lcuk: then just use /usr/local/etc	01:06
GeneralAntilles	lcuk_2, learn about POSIX. :P	01:06
KotCzarny	:)	01:06
* lcuk_2 is really nervous about putting stuff onto others computers		01:06
KotCzarny	lcuk: one note, /usr/local is for testing and everything that comes without packages	01:07
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KotCzarny	if you prepare correct package it should use /usr	01:07
KotCzarny	so meak your app install to /usr/local/{etc,bin,share}	01:08
KotCzarny	*make	01:08
KotCzarny	for example /usr/local/bin/lcuk1	01:08
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KotCzarny	and /usr/local/share/lcuk1/	01:09
KotCzarny	and system wide config in /usr/local/etc/lcuk1.conf	01:09
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lcuk_2	but thats system wide for the current user?	01:09
KotCzarny	nope	01:10
KotCzarny	for all	01:10
KotCzarny	for current user it's ~/	01:10
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lcuk_2	so why is it usr/ ?	01:10
KotCzarny	don't ask me.	01:10
KotCzarny	;)	01:10
KotCzarny	/ is needed to boot	01:10
KotCzarny	/usr is mounted after boot	01:10
KotCzarny	and contains no system critical stuff	01:10
lcuk_2	user space modules - anything outside the kernel	01:11
* lcuk_2 remembers something		01:11
KotCzarny	but usually /usr and / is on the same fs	01:11
KotCzarny	and nothing is mounted anymore	01:11
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lcuk_2	so where deos the actual logged in user live?	01:11
KotCzarny	but general rule still is valid	01:11
KotCzarny	~	01:11
KotCzarny	it's expanded to user's dir	01:11
KotCzarny	which is defined in /etc/password	01:11
yllus	If I'm network connected on my tablet, is there a path I can use to access a Windows share?	01:12
KotCzarny	but shell knows how to expand ~ to that variable	01:12
lcuk_2	/etc/lcuk/ you mean?	01:12
KotCzarny	no	01:12
lcuk_2	actual password?	01:12
KotCzarny	do: cat /etc/passwd	01:12
KotCzarny	you will see bunch of lines, field separator is ':'	01:12
KotCzarny	it's: login:pass:uid:guid:info:home_dir:default_shell	01:13
KotCzarny	on modern systems pass is hidden and stored elsewhere though	01:13
GeneralAntilles	/home/user is the user folder on ITOS	01:13
lcuk_2	thanks gen :) that makes life simpler, i had just found it in the list but you hit the spot	01:14
KotCzarny	lcuk: but it's wrong to hardcode it	01:14
KotCzarny	:)	01:14
lcuk_2	that user list though, if i wanted to login as any (with ssh) and knew the password that would work wouldnt it	01:15
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lcuk_2	and the links would map themselves correctly - ie this ~ you are talking about	01:15
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KotCzarny	~ is expanded in shell	01:15
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KotCzarny	but it uses /etc/passwd to get that path	01:15
lcuk_2	so if i am expecting my software to store profile data i could expect it to have a file "~/liq/options" or similar?	01:16
KotCzarny	shell usually predefines $HOME variable too	01:16
KotCzarny	if it's a simple config you can use ~/.liq.conf or ~/.liqrc	01:17
KotCzarny	and you can get user's HOME from env	01:17
lcuk_2	ahhh yes, i am looking via winssh now :)	01:17
KotCzarny	(in c)	01:17
lcuk_2	thats where game scores etc are kept :)	01:18
KotCzarny	and . at the beginning means dir is 'hidden'	01:18
KotCzarny	:)	01:18
GeneralAntilles	~/.liq/	01:18
lcuk_2	or file :)	01:18
KotCzarny	or file	01:18
KotCzarny	:)	01:19
GeneralAntilles	~/.liqrc maybe	01:19
lcuk_2	./liqreader	01:20
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lcuk_2	~/.liqreader	01:20
* lcuk_2 hopes all this magically sets itself up automagically soon, it hurts my head		01:21
KotCzarny	:)	01:21
KotCzarny	write a function to get HOME variable from startup environment	01:21
KotCzarny	for a start	01:22
KotCzarny	:>	01:22
GeneralAntilles	Windows user! :P	01:22
Navi	macfag	01:22
lcuk_2	but would a mac user know any better? dont they just put a folder full of files somewhere and use that	01:23
GeneralAntilles	Depends on the Mac user.	01:23
GeneralAntilles	I would know better. :P	01:23
KotCzarny	lcuk: mac is *nixed nowadays	01:23
KotCzarny	:)	01:23
GeneralAntilles	Apple lickableness plus BSD's win.	01:23
KotCzarny	so they have ~/Desktop and stuff too	01:23
KotCzarny	i guess	01:23
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KotCzarny	http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/02/19/wi_fi_triangulation	01:25
KotCzarny	nice idea	01:25
KotCzarny	especially if those aps are open	01:25
KotCzarny	;)	01:25
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pupnik	Is it possible for non-umpc hardware to do mesh networking?	01:30
KotCzarny	probably	01:30
pupnik	wouldn't it require more than one wlan adapter?	01:31
lcuk_2	mine connects to adhoc wifi :)	01:31
KotCzarny	why?	01:31
KotCzarny	store&send isn't enough?	01:31
pupnik	you can't have a mesh when each node can only connect to one.. ahh	01:31
KotCzarny	but in adhoc it's one-to-many	01:31
KotCzarny	i think	01:32
lcuk_2	you could, but you would be faster just giving the guy a floppy disk	01:32
KotCzarny	hmm	01:34
KotCzarny	full screen virtual x + chroot, and using maemo only for booting :>	01:34
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mgedmin	FAT is so easy to corrupt, and not quite easy to notice when it's corrupted	03:14
KotCzarny	yup	03:14
KotCzarny	fat sucks	03:14
mgedmin	I was trying to restore a backup and reinstall the apps	03:14
mgedmin	and App Installer gave me completely opaque errors "unable to install openssh"	03:14
mgedmin	I thought the maemo repository was hosed again	03:14
mgedmin	but decided to check the log -- "read only file system"	03:14
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mgedmin	IT OS needs a nice GUI for dosfsck	03:15
GeneralAntilles	That's what the Log option in the menu is for.	03:15
KotCzarny	mgedmin: afaik dosfsck is run everytime card is mounted	03:15
KotCzarny	i mean before mount	03:15
mgedmin	whee, "Operation failed: [OK]"	03:16
KotCzarny	check mmc-mount script to see if it has dosfsck or soemthing	03:16
KotCzarny	:)	03:16
mgedmin	where's the damn "SHOW ME THE LOG" button?	03:16
pupnik_	GeneralAntilles: seen the Kohjinsha SA5 ?	03:16
GeneralAntilles	In the Application Manager menu.	03:16
mgedmin	last line in the log is "Installing libzlibrary 0.8.16-1"	03:16
GeneralAntilles	No, pupnik_, what is it?	03:16
mgedmin	no indication about what failed or why	03:16
mgedmin	I'm starting to see why people hate the app installer	03:17
KotCzarny	:)	03:17
KotCzarny	guis are for wimps anyway	03:17
mgedmin	hey, KotCzarny, how do you reinstall all the apps listed in the backup from the command line?	03:17
KotCzarny	apt-get install `some sed magic here` ?	03:18
KotCzarny	:)	03:18
mgedmin	'unzip && parse xml && sudo apt-get install foo bar baz' is a bit too manual	03:18
mgedmin	fwiw dosfsck is not present in the OS image	03:19
KotCzarny	i believe i have seen it	03:19
KotCzarny	let me check	03:19
mgedmin	maybe it's not in my path	03:19
KotCzarny	may be named differently	03:19
GeneralAntilles	mgedmin, it shows ro errors here. :\	03:20
KotCzarny	Nokia-N800-51-3:~# which dosfsck	03:20
KotCzarny	/sbin/dosfsck	03:20
KotCzarny	mine has it	03:20
mgedmin	right, I'm not root yet	03:20
KotCzarny	:)	03:20
mgedmin	so, on a n810, is there a way to press 'tab' that doesn't involve the touchscreen?	03:23
mgedmin	(or a bluetooth/usb keyboard)	03:23
* KotCzarny has n800		03:23
mgedmin	yay, operation failed again	03:23
mgedmin	looks like I'm not done ranting :-)	03:23
KotCzarny	just format that mmc with ext3?	03:24
KotCzarny	;)	03:24
nrktk	mgedmin you can remap the keyboard, i was searching for it, because of the lack of the \| in the keyboard of my n810	03:24
mgedmin	yes, I was just wondering	03:24
mgedmin	fn-space or fn-chr might be a hidden shortcut	03:24
mgedmin	er, chr-space	03:25
mgedmin	duh ctrl-i is tab	03:25
mgedmin	unix rules	03:25
KotCzarny	:)	03:26
Navi	mgedmin, ohdamn, you're right	03:26
mgedmin	a n810 looks much better in real life compared to all the pics on the web	03:26
nrktk	mgedmin yes, at the shell, but not in the tex editors and similar.	03:27
nrktk	and i agree, looks better in hand	03:27
mgedmin	but I keep stabbing the webcam with my thumb out of habit, thinking it's the d-pad	03:27
nrktk	more solid	03:27
KotCzarny	mgedmin: write vid script	03:27
KotCzarny	to make it optical trackball	03:28
KotCzarny	:>	03:28
mgedmin	heh, gesture controls	03:28
mgedmin	yikes, the new screen is already full of my fingerprints	03:28
mgedmin	hm, backup/restore doesn't restore statusbar icon order	03:28
mgedmin	nor app menu organisation	03:28
pupnik_	mmm there are now 5.61" 1024x600 tft displays	03:29
* mgedmin spent 5 minutes in the car trying to remember the factory pin of his bluetooth GPS before he noticed the "use internal gps" option and remembered that n810 had one		03:29
Navi	eh	03:30
Navi	you might as well try to remember that pin	03:30
mgedmin	it's 2004	03:30
mgedmin	err, 2003	03:30
Navi	lol	03:30
mgedmin	I remembered it looked like a year number	03:30
GeneralAntilles	I don't think Nokia has any chance of competing in that price range with OMAP.	03:30
mgedmin	but I tried 2001 and 2004 only	03:30
mgedmin	I've got it written down, but not readily accessible when I'm in my car	03:31
GeneralAntilles	Actually, well, OMAP3440 at 1.0-1.2GHz might work.	03:31
mgedmin	why oh why won't OS2008 let me disable the darn Presence applet?	03:32
mgedmin	I don't need it cluttering my status bar	03:32
* KotCzarny never uset presence applet		03:32
KotCzarny	*used	03:32
pupnik_	i think that's a high-power version. the 3430 (3530) in pandora seems to run around 600mhz	03:32
GeneralAntilles	Just delete the .desktop if it bothers you so much.	03:32
GeneralAntilles	They've got a UMPC-targeted version.	03:33
GeneralAntilles	Of the 3440, I believe.	03:33
pupnik_	ahh ok	03:33
GeneralAntilles	Which is in the ~1GHz range.	03:33
Navi	There's the 35xx line of OMAP3	03:33
Navi	not listed on their site, though	03:33
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	03:33
GeneralAntilles	I wonder what the differences are.	03:33
pupnik_	35xx is just 34xx for smaller production runs	03:33
GeneralAntilles	Aha	03:34
GeneralAntilles	Makes sense.	03:34
GeneralAntilles	Weird that they have a different designation, though.	03:34
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mgedmin	yay, I'm root now	03:39
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Navi	woo	03:41
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mgedmin	cool, rsync is available on maemo these days	03:42
Navi	I tried to use it	03:42
mgedmin	why haven't I noticed that earlier?	03:42
Navi	it segfaulted >_>	03:42
mgedmin	wait, "tried"?	03:42
mgedmin	ouch	03:42
GeneralAntilles	It's been around for forever.	03:42
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mgedmin	bet it's unaligned memory access or something like that	03:43
Proteous	the quick brown rfox jumped over/the lazy dog	03:44
mgedmin	okay now, can someone explain to me, in simple one-syllable words preferably, why in the world does Application Installer refresh the whole app list if I click on a package to see its description and the choose "Cancel"?	03:45
Proteous	it's true I saw it/ on tv	03:45
GeneralAntilles	Because that's how it was programmed?	03:45
Proteous	...	03:45
KotCzarny	rfox?	03:45
mgedmin	typing is hard	03:45
lcuk_2	and why does the same program only display the description upto a certain point forcing you to open the properties window to read the description	03:45
lcuk_2	(on the list)	03:46
KotCzarny	let's call app-manager beta quality	03:46
Proteous	you've never seen an rfox?	03:46
KotCzarny	and have some tea	03:46
lcuk_2	i can feel the warmth coming off it ;)	03:46
lcuk_2	well, thats options sorted now :)	03:46
GeneralAntilles	Application Manager is open.	03:47
KotCzarny	protoeous: nope, doesn't saw it too	03:47
GeneralAntilles	Fix it if you don't like it. :P	03:47
KotCzarny	no thankx, i'll just use apt-get	03:47
lcuk_2	no damnit, ill put a change request to the person who knows and understands it	03:47
KotCzarny	\|> Number 6 - High Wycombe	03:47
GeneralAntilles	OK, good, go do it!	03:47
GeneralAntilles	http://bugs.maemo.org	03:47
GeneralAntilles	I'll even vote for it!	03:47
GeneralAntilles	Heck, I'll mark it New. :D	03:48
lcuk_2	i am doing right now :P	03:48
mgedmin	GeneralAntilles: wait, what?	03:48
mgedmin	it's open source?	03:48
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	03:48
mgedmin	despite being written by Nokia?	03:48
mgedmin	wow	03:48
Proteous	apt-get upgrade application-manager	03:48
GeneralAntilles	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/hildon-app-mgr/	03:48
GeneralAntilles	mgedmin, there's a lot of Nokia stuff that's open.	03:48
KotCzarny	ah, garage quality	03:49
KotCzarny	it's not even beta then	03:49
KotCzarny	:>	03:49
mgedmin	yes, framework stuff	03:49
mgedmin	rarely GUI applications	03:49
GeneralAntilles	hildon-desktop is	03:49
GeneralAntilles	MicroB is	03:49
mgedmin	apt-get source osso-application-installer	03:49
mgedmin	E: Unable to find a source package for osso-application-installer	03:49
mgedmin	thanks for the garage link	03:50
GeneralAntilles	I don't think it's osso	03:50
mgedmin	because deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free doesn't find it	03:50
GeneralAntilles	Do you have the right source repo, anyway?	03:50
Proteous	I hate that the on screen keyboard makes a click feedback sound even when you press the wrong place and it doesn't write a letter	03:50
mgedmin	maybe not, I tried "maemo application installer svn" in google and got to https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/	03:50
mgedmin	which does have osso-application-installer in it	03:50
mgedmin	ah, chinook has hildon-application-manager	03:51
mgedmin	and apt-get source works for it	03:51
GeneralAntilles	osso is on the way out.	03:51
mgedmin	re MicroB: IIRC only the backend is open, but the browser UI itself is closed	03:51
GeneralAntilles	browser-ui is open	03:51
GeneralAntilles	tablet-browser is not :\	03:51
mgedmin	what's the difference?	03:51
lcuk_2	ok, who nicked my lighter?	03:51
GeneralAntilles	browser-ui is OS2007.	03:52
mgedmin	lcuk_2: google	03:52
lcuk_2	good idea	03:52
mgedmin	ah ouch bad trend there	03:52
GeneralAntilles	lcuk_2, smoking is a dirty and expensive habit. :P	03:52
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mgedmin	why assume the worst?	03:52
mgedmin	maybe he just wants to set the house on fire	03:52
GeneralAntilles	I'm helping you out by stealing your possession then being preachy at you. :P	03:52
GeneralAntilles	s/possession/possessions/	03:52
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: I'm helping you out by stealing your possessions then being preachy at you. :P	03:52
lcuk_2	expensive? i smoke like a chimney and spend about £3 a week - less than we spend on newspapers	03:52
lcuk_2	rolling tobacco is cheap	03:53
lcuk_2	but i agree its dirty	03:53
* mgedmin suddenly remembers it's 4 AM and almost falls asleep		03:54
KotCzarny	:)	03:54
mgedmin	hildon-app-manager patches can wait	03:54
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mgedmin	good night, everyone	03:54
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Proteous	\|	03:55
KotCzarny	-	03:55
Proteous	'	03:55
Proteous	~	03:56
Proteous	Â©	03:56
KotCzarny	utfer	03:56
Proteous	exactly	03:57
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lcuk_2	any idea where i will find ttf fonts on the maemo or are they scattered?	04:41
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KotCzarny	in usual folder	04:42
KotCzarny	/usr/share/fonts	04:42
GeneralAntilles	/usr/share/fonts?	04:42
lcuk_2	holy bum fluff robin, you're right	04:43
KotCzarny	last time i checked x.org used it	04:43
GeneralAntilles	Somebody packaged mlocate	04:43
GeneralAntilles	You ought to install it. :P	04:43
KotCzarny	and since os2008 is quite a modern debian fork	04:43
KotCzarny	it will use same dir structure	04:43
lcuk_2	thx kot	04:43
KotCzarny	lcuk: np	04:43
KotCzarny	as a side note you can put your ttfs there	04:43
GeneralAntilles	/usr/share tends to be where a lot of "resource" stuff ends up.	04:43
Navi	mlocate is heavy	04:44
Navi	just use find :/	04:44
KotCzarny	and make theme using them	04:44
KotCzarny	:)	04:44
GeneralAntilles	Meh, busybox find is mean.	04:44
Navi	only 'cuz u sux	04:44
lcuk_2	lol	04:44
GeneralAntilles	Quite probably	04:44
GeneralAntilles	But if I sux, lcuk_2 will sux more. :P	04:44
* lcuk_2 wants to press f4		04:44
lcuk_2	f3 even	04:44
Navi	find /usr -name "ttf"	04:44
KotCzarny	lcuk: install mc	04:45
GeneralAntilles	locate .tff :P	04:45
KotCzarny	:)	04:45
lcuk_2	i did type something like that. look	04:45
lcuk_2	<lcuk_2> any idea where i will find ttf fonts on the maemo or are they scattered?	04:45
KotCzarny	it has find file option	04:45
Navi	GeneralAntilles, you have to run updatedb first	04:45
Navi	assuming a fresh install	04:45
lcuk_2	this natural language processor that IRC uses is amazing :)	04:45
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lcuk_2	i think all programs should have an irc help bar ;)	04:46
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GeneralAntilles	I am not your slave. ;_;	04:46
KotCzarny	you still have to parse answers by yourself	04:46
KotCzarny	:)	04:46
*** Navi changes topic to "GA sux"		04:46
lcuk_2	and i learn more by asking and discussing :)	04:46
Navi	oh shit!	04:46
lcuk_2	lol	04:46
Navi	>_>	04:46
GeneralAntilles	Haha	04:46
Navi	What the hell?	04:46
GeneralAntilles	Fail.	04:46
GeneralAntilles	Too bad there's no ops for this channel	04:46
KotCzarny	lcuk: today you learn, tomorrow you will teach	04:47
KotCzarny	:)	04:47
GeneralAntilles	Or they'd kick your ass.	04:47
lcuk_2	its ok, ive gotta figure out how to upload something yet	04:47
GeneralAntilles	Upload where?	04:47
KotCzarny	lcuk: make your own thttpd based local repo	04:47
KotCzarny	:>	04:47
*** Navi changes topic to "development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets \| http://freedesktop.org/Software/sbox2/Maemo \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| http://www.gronmayer.com/it \| http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook"		04:47
KotCzarny	and just add it ;)	04:47
GeneralAntilles	Ha	04:48
Navi	Why do unopped people have permissions to change the topic in here?	04:48
lcuk_2	we've been over this - that involves me doing all sorts of shit - ive just spent god knows how long handling option parsing	04:48
GeneralAntilles	Because there is no authority to this channel.	04:48
Navi	:/	04:48
GeneralAntilles	It was created and the founder disappeared. :P	04:48
KotCzarny	lcuk: option parsing is easy	04:48
KotCzarny	:>	04:48
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lcuk_2	yes, but i didnt want to use single character codes for things	04:49
KotCzarny	there's even lib for it	04:49
lcuk_2	yes i know i read up	04:49
KotCzarny	you won't have to	04:49
KotCzarny	strcmp	04:49
KotCzarny	:)	04:49
lcuk_2	getopt and getopt_long :\|	04:49
KotCzarny	yup	04:49
KotCzarny	:)	04:49
Navi	Doesn't matter if the founder disappeared	04:50
lcuk_2	getopt appeared to want me to force options in a specific order	04:50
Navi	just go to #freenode and complain >_>	04:50
KotCzarny	lcuk: wanna see my options parser?	04:50
lcuk_2	it was easier for me to write a couple of functions for getopt_str and getopt_num	04:50
GeneralAntilles	I'll go bitch at kloeri.	04:50
Navi	lol	04:50
lcuk_2	nahhh i done it, it works nicely and accepts defaults for when they arent passed (or are invalid)	04:50
KotCzarny	it's a one liner anyway	04:51
KotCzarny	well, two liner if you want to have --opt and --opt n	04:52
lcuk_2	yer, it is now :) for any program i write app_getopt_int("size", 20)	04:52
KotCzarny	:)	04:52
KotCzarny	if(!strcmp("-l",argv[i])) { looping=60;	04:52
KotCzarny	if(i+1<argc && atoi(argv[i+1])>0) { i++; looping=atoi(argv[i]); }	04:52
KotCzarny	:>	04:52
lcuk_2	but what if its NAN? or if its invalid looping param?	04:53
lcuk_2	;)	04:53
KotCzarny	then it won't work anyway?	04:53
KotCzarny	if user is stupid it's HIS (or HER) fault	04:53
KotCzarny	:)	04:53
lcuk_2	but sanitizing your inputs in important	04:53
KotCzarny	atoi does that	04:53
lcuk_2	no it doesnt, it returns 0 if it cant parse it, or min/max if its out of bounds	04:54
KotCzarny	yup	04:54
KotCzarny	and it's enough	04:54
lcuk_2	depends what looping is used for i suppose	04:54
KotCzarny	if one enters word where number is expected, it's his fault	04:54
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KotCzarny	if looping>0 then it doesn't exit after one loop	04:55
KotCzarny	otherwise it's usleep	04:55
lcuk_2	also, what happens if they dont supply a param, but instead supply a further -param? you will miss it by blindly accepting its expected as an arg	04:55
KotCzarny	*1M	04:55
lcuk_2	;)	04:55
KotCzarny	that what second if is for	04:56
lcuk_2	arghhh, missed it :)	04:56
KotCzarny	:)	04:56
lcuk_2	well, the atoi	04:56
KotCzarny	so first if we get -l, when we set default delay	04:56
lcuk_2	i dont actually care what order things come in	04:57
KotCzarny	yup	04:57
KotCzarny	me too	04:57
KotCzarny	there's for around it	04:57
KotCzarny	from 1 to argc	04:57
KotCzarny	:)	04:57
KotCzarny	actually i like it my way because some options are exclusive/inclusive	04:59
KotCzarny	and one would have to check accordingly anyway	04:59
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KotCzarny	http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4269	05:10
KotCzarny	that's just plain stupid.	05:10
Tama^2	it's beyond stupid	05:12
Navi	What is?	05:13
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KotCzarny	yeah. it's stupid and expensive.	05:13
Tama^2	open the link	05:13
KotCzarny	and shiny.	05:13
Navi	link?	05:15
Tama^2	-_-	05:15
Tama^2	KotCzarny: http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4269	05:15
Navi	Oh, I have that guy on /ignore	05:15
Tama^2	ah	05:15
lcuk_2	actually i think http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4276 is a better idea	05:16
Navi	Power rings!	05:16
KotCzarny	lcuk: boobs in hand are better than silicon on paper	05:17
KotCzarny	:>	05:17
lcuk_2	good point, and they have been dualcore for a while as well	05:17
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KotCzarny	dualcore?	05:18
* GeneralAntilles high-fives Navi.		05:18
KotCzarny	o.O	05:18
lcuk_2	am i safe using "/usr/share/fonts/nokia/nosnb.ttf" as a default font for 99.9999% of nokia 8x0s? at least for now	05:22
GeneralAntilles	I'm assuming that's one of the ones that's bundled?	05:22
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I'm a fan of the Sans font they bundle.	05:22
KotCzarny	define 'safe'	05:22
lcuk_2	yer - saves me trying to mess around finding a free one to include	05:22
KotCzarny	you should use osso provided aliases	05:22
lcuk_2	'safe' = included in most systems	05:22
GeneralAntilles	bitstream	05:22
KotCzarny	if you want to play safe	05:23
KotCzarny	:)	05:23
lcuk_2	i couldnt find sans	05:23
lcuk_2	i dont think its a ttf	05:23
KotCzarny	i mean gtk provided	05:23
lcuk_2	its only as a proof of concept	05:23
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KotCzarny	there should be an alias for sans, sansserif and mono	05:24
KotCzarny	or something	05:24
KotCzarny	that's why they are not in the fs	05:24
lcuk_2	well since up until half hour ago i was using arial.ttf i think what i have now is better	05:24
KotCzarny	:>	05:25
KotCzarny	and most of the os2008 images are the same	05:25
KotCzarny	so yes, you're reasonably safe	05:25
KotCzarny	:)	05:25
GeneralAntilles	We'd've lynched you for that.	05:25
lcuk_2	no you wouldnt, i could never include it and post it anywhere - its bad form	05:26
GeneralAntilles	Arial is an abomination.	05:26
KotCzarny	you can make it download from sf.net	05:26
KotCzarny	:>	05:26
KotCzarny	(in postinstall script)	05:27
lopz	bye	05:28
lopz	zZZzZZ..	05:28
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lcuk_2	time to sleep :) nite all	05:32
KotCzarny	go go	05:32
KotCzarny	:)	05:32
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Italodance	hi	06:22
GeneralAntilles	So, anybody thought up an easy answer to help newbies format corrupt internal memory on the N810 when they can't disable swap?	06:25
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shackan	what the hell do i have to do to share my music from rhythmbox to canola via daap?	06:37
GeneralAntilles	Wait for the UPnP plugin?	06:38
shackan	doesn't canola2 do daap?	06:38
GeneralAntilles	The plugin is still in testing.	06:39
shackan	and i want to test it :)	06:40
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GeneralAntilles	Go petition the INdT guys. :P	06:40
shackan	crap	06:40
shackan	no upnp support either?	06:41
GeneralAntilles	Not until the plugin is out.	06:41
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shackan	jeesus they spent so much time to make it shiny.. with dynamic scrolling and shit	06:42
shackan	so, any other daap or upnp client available?	06:43
GeneralAntilles	shackan, just be glad you have something to play with.	06:43
GeneralAntilles	If you want to HELP, evidently this is the place to go: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?id=138&type=g	06:44
shackan	(the default player speas upnp but forces to listen one album at a time)	06:44
GeneralAntilles	Media streamer might work.	06:45
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shackan	hahaha mediastreamer is not installable	06:50
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KotCzarny	hmm	07:03
Tama^2	hmm	07:03
KotCzarny	this stowaway kb works beautifully withj my n-gage	07:03
KotCzarny	on n800 bt powersaving probably fscks up key delay	07:04
KotCzarny	or is it?	07:04
Tama^2	side-talking?	07:04
KotCzarny	right now kb testing	07:04
KotCzarny	and response is brilliant	07:04
KotCzarny	but on n800 it's laggy	07:04
Tama^2	happens to every bt kb	07:05
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Tama^2	at some stage I read somewhere that the bluez bt stack was to blame	07:05
KotCzarny	hum	07:05
KotCzarny	is there any remedy?	07:05
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Tama^2	not that I know of	07:06
KotCzarny	did you know that blue-fn + left/right space maps to left/right soft-keys?	07:07
KotCzarny	:>	07:07
KotCzarny	(on symbian)	07:08
Tama^2	ever had a symbian device	07:08
Tama^2	:P	07:08
KotCzarny	no nokia phones?	07:08
KotCzarny	:P	07:08
Tama^2	last nokia I had was a no camera, bw screen 50$ thing	07:09
Tama^2	>.>	07:09
KotCzarny	my n-gage is 50$ thing too	07:09
KotCzarny	;)	07:10
KotCzarny	no camera too	07:10
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KotCzarny	hum	07:28
KotCzarny	but while running a game it sucks.	07:28
KotCzarny	i wonder why	07:28
KotCzarny	maybe game renices itself above everything else	07:29
Italodance	KotCzarny u have n-gage cool!	07:29
Italodance	i wanted to buya n81 or n95 8gb but finally i prefer n80	07:29
Italodance	i like all n0gage games	07:29
Italodance	and still playing with my n6670	07:30
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Italodance	morning guys (here)	07:31
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gnuSnob	Tax experts: can I deduct my internet costs, since that's the cost of job searching?	07:37
gnuSnob	And suppose I'm job searching on a regular basis.. can I deduct my internet costs for the year?	07:37
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KotCzarny	http://farookh.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!1F807D7A703B5B1E!999.entry	08:24
KotCzarny	lol	08:24
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gnuSnob	I just discovered how we can deduct the cost of a NIT on our taxes	08:35
gnuSnob	Install garnet VM, along w/ TCassist (http://www.getjar.com/products/2033/TCAssist), and use the NIT at work to keep track of time to charge	08:35
KotCzarny	isn't tcassist for palmos?	08:39
gnuSnob	yes, that's why i said garnetvm	08:40
KotCzarny	ahm, ok	08:40
KotCzarny	i thought it's some javavm	08:40
gnuSnob	garnet is basically the alias for palmos	08:41
KotCzarny	:)	08:41
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Navi	gnuSnob, lol	08:49
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gnuSnob	You should hear about my job searching write off I have planned for next year	08:51
gnuSnob	I found out job hunting is tax deductible	08:51
gnuSnob	which includes "Travel expenses, including out-of-town job-hunting trips."	08:51
KotCzarny	have you actually used it?	08:52
gnuSnob	So the plan is to search for my next Ada job in the bahama's	08:52
gnuSnob	what, tcassist? Yeah, I use that on my palm tx	08:52
gnuSnob	I have not tried tcassist on the NIT yet	08:52
KotCzarny	no, tax deductions	08:52
gnuSnob	yeah, I itemize my deductions	08:53
gnuSnob	I've not itemized job searching expenses before though	08:53
KotCzarny	how much tiy managed to deduct?	08:53
KotCzarny	*you	08:53
gnuSnob	I have no idea off the top of my head.. but certainly more than the standard deduction	08:53
KotCzarny	1k$?	08:54
KotCzarny	:)	08:54
gnuSnob	The tax software interviews, and decides whether it makes sense to itemize	08:54
gnuSnob	Actually, I've deducted a heck of a lot	08:54
gnuSnob	~$10k when I was taking pilot lessons	08:54
KotCzarny	pilot lessons?	08:55
KotCzarny	lol	08:55
gnuSnob	for flying single engine planes	08:55
KotCzarny	buy a plane and deduct it as a 'travel expense'	08:56
gnuSnob	All that flight instruction is deductible, if it helps your ability to do your job	08:56
KotCzarny	:>	08:56
gnuSnob	no, not that.. I haven't tried that yet.. I still have to figure out how to pull that off	08:56
* pupnik peers into the crystal ball		08:56
pupnik	"i see... an audit!"	08:56
KotCzarny	:)	08:56
gnuSnob	I'll need to move 51 miles away from work, and commute to work in the plane	08:57
gnuSnob	Then I can deduct it	08:57
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gnuSnob	Hopefully I don't have to stop for coffee on the way	08:57
KotCzarny	commuting sucks.	08:57
gnuSnob	Not sure yet how to deduct SallyD. It would be nice to be able to work that angle	08:59
KotCzarny	offtopic, animated gif viewer for linux?	09:00
gnuSnob	firefox	09:01
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KotCzarny	too big	09:01
gnuSnob	well, it's open source, so you just have to strip out what you don't need	09:02
KotCzarny	though i was writing media server app in php	09:02
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KotCzarny	it would be faster to hack in gif animation to existing image viewer than to strip firefox	09:03
gnuSnob	Yeah.. i was just being difficult	09:03
gnuSnob	imagemagick might work	09:04
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gnuSnob	that comes standard w/ most distros	09:04
KotCzarny	does it vome with viewer?	09:05
gnuSnob	yeah	09:05
KotCzarny	name?	09:05
gnuSnob	just type "display <image file>"	09:05
KotCzarny	let's see how it handles animated gifs	09:05
KotCzarny	badly.	09:06
gnuSnob	yeah, it's not that great.. it's terrible for porno	09:06
KotCzarny	i wonder..	09:07
KotCzarny	let's try mplayer	09:07
KotCzarny	;)	09:07
KotCzarny	wow	09:07
KotCzarny	worked	09:07
KotCzarny	lol	09:07
KotCzarny	now, let's see if it has autorepeat	09:07
gnuSnob	try gqview	09:08
gnuSnob	that comes with RH	09:08
KotCzarny	no love for a-gifs	09:09
KotCzarny	(in gqview)	09:09
KotCzarny	mplayer -loop 0	09:12
KotCzarny	though it resets itself between cycles	09:12
KotCzarny	hum	09:12
Navi	pupnik, hey, do you know how to utilize the pixel doubler in sdl?	09:12
pupnik	in specific cases, yes	09:13
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pupnik	in others, i have not been successful	09:13
KotCzarny	isn't it just a simple link and one sdl command?	09:14
pupnik	the history of the problems are documented in the maemo-developers mailing list	09:14
pupnik	s/are/is	09:14
KotCzarny	i will believe you then	09:14
Navi	Mmm	09:14
KotCzarny	i have tried it just once	09:14
pupnik	i haven't looked into it in os2008	09:15
KotCzarny	and it worked	09:15
KotCzarny	so for me it's 100% success rate	09:15
KotCzarny	:)	09:15
pupnik	basically, it broke when the app updated many small rectangles on screen, instead of one big one	09:15
KotCzarny	hum	09:16
Navi	yeah, I just saw that on the wiki	09:16
Navi	I actually should of looked at the wiki first	09:16
GeneralAntilles	ass	09:18
pupnik	that wiki page hasn't had many contributions from qualified programmers	09:19
KotCzarny	pupnik: have you tried using mplayer as a picture viewer?	09:19
Navi	heh, I'll check the mailing list after I wake up	09:19
pupnik	KotCzarny: no quiver is my viewer of choice	09:20
Navi	I'm pretty tired at the moment	09:20
pupnik	does it work?	09:20
KotCzarny	i don't know	09:20
KotCzarny	i'm looking for something for animated gifs	09:20
KotCzarny	and mplayer looks very promising	09:20
KotCzarny	if only i will be able to convince it to show only one frame for some time i could use it for other formats too	09:21
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* pupnik gives kupesoft a kupo nut		09:22
KotCzarny	:)	09:22
kupesoft	quoi?	09:23
Navi	lol	09:23
kupesoft	?	09:23
pupnik	Mog, the most famous moogle of all, only had one appearance in Final Fantasy VII - In the mini-game "Mog House", in the arcade. All you had to do was feed him kupo nuts until it said "That's enough". Then Mog could fly and win the affections of the girl-moogle of his dreams.	09:24
KotCzarny	yah.	09:25
KotCzarny	and you get 30qp for it	09:25
kupesoft	That's a bot, right?	09:25
KotCzarny	:)	09:25
KotCzarny	kupesoft: wrong. you should answer: kupo!	09:25
KotCzarny	:)	09:25
pupnik	right! :)	09:26
KotCzarny	hmm. mplayer -loop 0 -fixed-vo mf://your.jpg	09:26
KotCzarny	now how can i make pause on the first frame	09:26
KotCzarny	;)	09:26
KotCzarny	hah.	09:27
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KotCzarny	mplayer -idle -fixed-vo mf://your.jpg	09:27
KotCzarny	:>	09:27
KotCzarny	add -zoom -fs and you get your picture viewer	09:28
KotCzarny	:>>>	09:28
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pupnik	hehe	09:29
KotCzarny	and mplayer's swscaler is decent	09:29
KotCzarny	:)	09:29
pupnik	there's no decent comic book viewer (packed image list) yet afaik	09:30
Navi	Comix is decent	09:30
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Navi	anyways, 'night	09:33
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KaaLi	have some of u purchased wayfinder..	09:35
pupnik	Cheers Navi	09:36
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pupnik	comix unpacks the whole archive before displaying a picture - not the right way to do it	09:36
KotCzarny	:>	09:37
KotCzarny	vfs to the rescue?	09:37
KotCzarny	avfs	09:37
KotCzarny	this way you can use quiver or even included image viewer i think	09:38
pupnik	yup	09:38
KotCzarny	http://sourceforge.net/projects/libungif	09:43
KotCzarny	wtf?	09:43
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KotCzarny	Work on libungif has been halted due to the expiration of the patent on LZW. giflib continues to have bugfixes and patches merged. As part of this work, the sourceforge project has been renamed from libungif to giflib.	09:45
KotCzarny		09:45
KotCzarny	ah, ok	09:45
KotCzarny	:)	09:45
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KotCzarny	pupnik: http://www.linuxlinks.com/Software/Graphics/Viewers/	09:54
KotCzarny	:)	09:54
KotCzarny	http://gtkmmviewer.sourceforge.net/scrshot.html.en	09:55
KotCzarny	this one is interesting	09:55
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aquatix	morning	10:53
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KotCzarny	yup.	11:03
KotCzarny	gimageview is my new images/videos (pre)viewer of choice	11:04
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eichi	are there many apps on https://garage.maemo.org which arent on downloads.maemo.org ?	11:14
KotCzarny	probably	11:15
eichi	it seems that i miss a lot of apps ^^	11:15
eichi	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/powerlaunch/ thats the first time i read about this	11:15
eichi	im searching somehing like an application launcher on the desktop	11:17
eichi	for os2008	11:17
eichi	and i want to remove the community button on the left sidebar, with email, voip etc	11:17
KotCzarny	:)	11:18
KotCzarny	for that you will have to install something	11:18
KotCzarny	i forgot the name	11:18
KotCzarny	menu-toolbar?	11:18
KotCzarny	something like this	11:18
eichi	i found powerlaunch, idea and jack	11:19
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eichi	and personal-menu	11:20
KotCzarny	yeah, that's the name	11:21
KotCzarny	:)	11:21
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aquatix	btw, why can't i freely move apps to another menu?	11:21
KotCzarny	yup	11:21
eichi	aquarius-, go to control panel	11:22
aquatix	yeah, Panels, Applications, Organize	11:23
aquatix	but i can't move all apps to another menu, only some	11:23
aquatix	and generally only from/to extras and the my choice one	11:23
KotCzarny	that's a bug	11:23
KotCzarny	you can	11:23
KotCzarny	i usually change to another menu and back	11:23
KotCzarny	and then try again	11:24
aquatix	oh	11:24
aquatix	hm	11:24
KotCzarny	just keep trying	11:24
KotCzarny	:)	11:24
aquatix	myeah, i gave up eventually :)	11:24
aquatix	partly because there's no room for a Multimedia menu in the main menu without having to scroll anyway	11:24
KotCzarny	choose favourite 5 and put other below	11:25
KotCzarny	:)	11:25
eichi	aquatix, no. i created many menus and changed the location of many icons - really ^^	11:25
eichi	i have 8 menus	11:26
eichi	the last one is the "notNeeded" ;D	11:26
aquatix	:)	11:27
eichi	i have online, games, system, office, multimedia, OnTheRoad, Extras, NotNeeded	11:27
aquatix	myeah, but when you exceed the 6, it starts to scroll, so only 5 are visible	11:27
KotCzarny	you can make notneeded a subset of the 6th menu	11:27
eichi	yes, thats right	11:27
aquatix	and i don't like that in the main menu	11:27
aquatix	ah, submenu	11:28
KotCzarny	ie. get 5 apps on the top that you will actually use	11:28
aquatix	idea	11:28
KotCzarny	:)	11:28
aquatix	oh	11:28
eichi	i want to remove this damn community menu	11:28
eichi	i dont need any of this apps	11:28
aquatix	meh, no submenu possible, only order	11:28
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eichi	someone used powerlaunch? its sounds dangeraous	11:30
KotCzarny	:)	11:30
eichi	"replaces the systemui	11:30
KotCzarny	it's nice	11:30
eichi	i dont want to damage my sists	11:30
eichi	system	11:30
KotCzarny	you won't	11:30
KotCzarny	probably	11:30
aquatix	g	11:30
eichi	i know this from themes, which destroyed my maemo. i never touch new themes. damnit	11:31
KotCzarny	:>	11:31
aquatix	erm	11:31
aquatix	gtk themes destroyed maemo?	11:31
aquatix	wtf :)	11:31
KotCzarny	there's always backup :)	11:31
aquatix	which doesn't completely work?	11:32
eichi	it was a startrack themes for os2007	11:32
AStorm	does canola2 support Vorbis?	11:32
KotCzarny	probably	11:32
KotCzarny	:>	11:32
eichi	AStorm, no	11:32
aquatix	AStorm: iirc, yes	11:32
aquatix	oh	11:32
aquatix	eichi is more right ;)	11:32
AStorm	drat!	11:32
eichi	AStorm, i useUKMP and kagu for this	11:32
AStorm	any more all-purpose player?	11:32
aquatix	the built-in one?	11:33
aquatix	with ogg-support	11:33
AStorm	aquatix: doesn't suuport video ok	11:33
eichi	AStorm, kagu works stable and is nice, UKMP is the nicest, but somethimes is slows down and the sound is strange, you have to restart maemo, that sucks	11:33
eichi	use kagu	11:33
KotCzarny	astorm: gimageview	11:33
KotCzarny	:>	11:33
eichi	i have ogg music only to	11:34
KotCzarny	i have found this gem today	11:34
KotCzarny	and i'll probably try to port it soon	11:34
KotCzarny	:)	11:34
eichi	i installed powerlaunch, and now?!	11:34
AStorm	KotCzarny: that supports audio playback?	11:35
eichi	reboot?	11:35
KotCzarny	astorm: can use mplayer as a slave	11:35
KotCzarny	and has 'add by extension'	11:35
KotCzarny	so probably yes	11:35
KotCzarny	but haven't tried yet	11:35
eichi	what is softpoweroff?	11:35
AStorm	ive installed gstreamer-0.10-ivorbis plugin	11:35
AStorm	still no ogg support in the default player	11:36
AStorm	maybe i have to restart something?	11:36
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GeneralAntilles	eichi, easier to get into and out of lock-mode.	11:36
AStorm	blahblah	11:37
eichi	AStorm, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ogg/	11:37
AStorm	button is easy enough	11:37
eichi	GeneralAntilles, ah okay, i got it. i thought, this was another thing ;)	11:37
eichi	was is "mce" which is replaced now?	11:38
eichi	and was is "softpoweroff"	11:38
GeneralAntilles	<GeneralAntilles> eichi, easier to get into and out of lock-mode.	11:39
AStorm	maybe after i install that, canola will detect vorbis	11:39
AStorm	it uses gst after all	11:39
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AStorm	have to remove ivorbis for it	11:42
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AStorm	"unable to install"	11:48
AStorm	i'll retry after a reboot	11:48
KotCzarny	time to bed. night people	11:48
KotCzarny	:)	11:48
AStorm	brb	11:48
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qwerty12	KotCzarny: good night	11:49
KotCzarny	qwerty12: have you tried kcbatt 0.2.4?	11:49
KotCzarny	;)	11:49
qwerty12	I have it installed :P. I havn't really tried it yet though. My N800 is charging atm	11:50
KotCzarny	charging mode is updated too	11:50
KotCzarny	:)	11:50
qwerty12	Don't get me wrong though, I really appricate your work :)	11:50
qwerty12	Ok :)	11:50
KotCzarny	so it gets quite meaningfull output :)	11:51
qwerty12	I like it, I just tried it :)	11:51
qwerty12	Thanks :)	11:51
KotCzarny	:)	11:51
KotCzarny	np. it has some testing params added	11:51
KotCzarny	so you can try tweaking it :)	11:52
KotCzarny	without recompiling	11:52
qwerty12	Ok :)	11:52
qwerty12	I have it added to personal menu	11:52
KotCzarny	:)	11:52
KotCzarny	ok, sleep time	11:53
qwerty12	lol, good night :D	11:53
aquatix	KotCzarny: g'night :)	11:54
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qwerty12	Just curious, does N800 have TI BRF6150 bluetooth chip?	11:57
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Cptnodegard	http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/22/screen-grabs-nokia-n770-lives-free-dies-hard/	12:11
eichi	"Usually I am not a grammar/spelling nazi" grammar nazi, is this common?	12:15
eichi	sounds evil	12:15
qwerty12	grammar nazi is quite common	12:15
qwerty12	no idea why it's that though	12:15
sxpert	distribution of godwins too	12:16
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christefano	has anyone tried using bookmarklets in the microb browser?	12:44
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megabyte405	christefano: no but I see no reason why they shouldn't work	12:56
christefano	I'm having trouble getting supergenpass to work	12:57
christefano	it's a bookmarklet that generates passwords based on a hash of a master password and the TLD of a site one tries to log in to	12:57
christefano	http://supergenpass.com	12:58
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christefano	is there a way to trigger a bookmarklet without opening the Bookmarks window?	13:00
AStorm	ok, so which media player that supports all media do you recommend?	13:00
AStorm	ah, and a tagging program	13:01
AStorm	hmm?	13:04
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qwerty12	For pc or internet tablet?	13:04
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AStorm	for chinook	13:06
qwerty12	ok, there are only really 1. mplayer is the best (the only, except counting a odd port of vlc) and audio tag tool	13:06
AStorm	yeah, but mplayer has crummy interface	13:07
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AStorm	some frontend supporting media library?	13:07
qwerty12	canola uses mplayer to play videos	13:07
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AStorm	yup	13:07
AStorm	but not for audio	13:07
AStorm	thus doesn't support ogg	13:08
AStorm	can't list it	13:08
qwerty12	Oh right. Hmm	13:08
AStorm	although default media player sees them	13:08
qwerty12	You can use ogg support package. There are now 2.	13:08
AStorm	making canola support it would be best	13:08
qwerty12	They work with built in media player	13:08
AStorm	I have that	13:08
AStorm	but built-in is junk	13:09
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qwerty12	canola actually uses the built in player to play audio	13:09
AStorm	and i still need a tagging tool	13:09
AStorm	no	13:09
qwerty12	I guess it is a matter of adding ogg display support	13:09
AStorm	it uses gstreamer directly	13:09
AStorm	yep	13:09
qwerty12	oh, my bad - but I thought ogg support adds ogg gstreamer plugins?	13:09
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qwerty12	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/audiotagtool/ - this is the only one	13:10
qwerty12	afaik	13:10
qwerty12	works for ogg & mp3	13:10
AStorm	mhm, good	13:12
AStorm	cli?	13:12
qwerty12	hildonised	13:12
qwerty12	gui.	13:12
solmumaha	qwerty12: have you tested the ntfs module in kernel? is it really read/write nowadays?	13:12
megabyte405	I use OGG with Canola	13:12
AStorm	yeah!	13:12
AStorm	megabyte405: what do i have to install?	13:13
megabyte405	solmumaha: you're wanting NTFS-3g - google it, it is read/write	13:13
qwerty12	solmumaha: I haven't sorry, I'm more curious	13:13
AStorm	added some ogg-support package	13:13
megabyte405	AStorm: not sure, I think ogg-support package	13:13
qwerty12	solmumaha ported it :D	13:13
qwerty12	@megabyte	13:13
AStorm	have that	13:13
megabyte405	and it doesn't work?	13:13
megabyte405	then you have the wrong ogg support package	13:13
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AStorm	maybe	13:14
AStorm	let me tell you which one	13:15
qwerty12	solmumaha: "There is partial, but │	13:15
qwerty12	│ safe, write support available. " Hmm, I think ntfs-3g is better. Sorry	13:15
AStorm	Thomas Kulve's repo	13:15
megabyte405	AStorm: sorry, but that won't help. I got OGG stuff working really easily a long time ago, and so I have no idea how I did it	13:16
AStorm	and that doesn't work for canola2	13:16
megabyte405	Pretty sure I just picked Ogg Support from either Maemo Garage or Maemo Downloads	13:16
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AStorm	check from which repo	13:16
megabyte405	I tend not to futz with my repos	13:16
AStorm	probably that one	13:16
\|zeus\|	morning	13:16
\|zeus\|	i have strange problem with new n810	13:16
qwerty12	morning	13:16
\|zeus\|	package manager wants release.gpg files	13:17
AStorm	use less pipe chars in nick	13:17
\|zeus\|	but it can't fetch it from pre-installed repos	13:17
AStorm	easier to type :P	13:17
megabyte405	500 http://tuomas.kulve.fi bora/maemo Packages	13:17
AStorm	zeus: reflash with newer OS2008	13:17
AStorm	megabyte405: I have them for chinook	13:18
\|zeus\|	AStorm: already reflashed	13:18
\|zeus\|	same problem	13:18
AStorm	hmmm	13:18
megabyte405	AStorm: like I said, no idea, can't help then. Was jsut offering my experience	13:18
AStorm	worked here... might be your onnection or proxy	13:18
\|zeus\|	2.2007.51-3	13:19
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AStorm	zeus, same here	13:19
\|zeus\|	i can't find release.gpg files in repos manual using firefox too	13:19
AStorm	megabyte405: thanks anyway	13:19
megabyte405	np	13:19
\|zeus\|	AStorm: which repos are you using?	13:20
christefano	okay, so I take it nobody has been using bookmarklets with microb?	13:20
AStorm	zeus, worked with default ones	13:21
AStorm	chris___: well, maybe some shortcut?	13:21
AStorm	christefano: ^	13:22
\|zeus\|	AStorm: and it doesn't want Release.gpg?	13:22
christefano	AStorm: in particular I'm looking for a way to use http://supergenpass.com	13:23
AStorm	zeus, no errors	13:23
pupnik	zeus, go vegetarian!	13:24
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* pupnik stares blankly at unfinished projects		13:29
AStorm	hmm, mogg doesn't want to install	13:30
AStorm	missing pkgs	13:30
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qwerty12	You need all the debs from the garage page	13:30
qwerty12	May just be easier to use dpkg on them	13:31
AStorm	which page?	13:31
pupnik	What's a good linux utility to generate fun characters like -> ³	13:31
AStorm	gucharmap?	13:32
qwerty12	AStorm:https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=130	13:32
qwerty12	check the mogg IT OS 2008 section	13:32
pH5	I press AltGr+3 for that	13:32
sp3000	aww, no s-c-u... input on the tablet	13:33
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sp3000	granted that would be a bit cokebottlish	13:33
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AStorm	you can change the layout	13:34
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AStorm	funny that non-working mogg is in extras	13:35
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AStorm	mispelled repo lol	13:39
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Italodance	OS 2008 is very stylish than os2007	13:40
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qwerty12	I like the OS2007 default theme more though	13:41
qwerty12	Actually, I have the OS2007 rootfs mounted on Ubuntu, may as well look around	13:41
Italodance	oh lol	13:42
AStorm	the OS2007 theme is available for 2008	13:42
Italodance	it is another opinion	13:43
AStorm	calledc glasser afaicr	13:43
qwerty12	AStorm: Ok, thanks, I'll look around :)	13:43
AStorm	in the defaukt install too	13:44
AStorm	default even	13:44
AStorm	need some ecc on typed text	13:45
AStorm	:P	13:45
qwerty12	Oh my bad. sorry, I meant this theme: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1214/1026756333_bc3aabfeae.jpg	13:45
GeneralAntilles	You LIKE Adria?!	13:47
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qwerty12	Hell yea, it's peng-a-leng :p	13:48
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qwerty12	I just saw it now on my screen	13:48
GeneralAntilles	Every single bundled theme in every ITOS release prior to OS2008 sucked.	13:48
GeneralAntilles	Totally.	13:48
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qwerty12	I never used OS2007, my N800 was flashed to OS2008 as soon as I recieved it. I just like it, I'm feeling nostalgic for something I haven't used :P	13:49
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* GeneralAntilles shivers.		13:49
GeneralAntilles	The OS2006 themes were horrifying.	13:49
AStorm	heehe	13:49
GeneralAntilles	The OS2005 ones were at least mildly subdued.	13:50
GeneralAntilles	But OS2006 was a close cousin to some sort of primary color hell.	13:50
eichi	damn i have the IDEA preferences on the desktop and cant close the window now!!!	13:50
* qwerty12 counts me to be lucky I wasn't around then :p :D		13:50
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GeneralAntilles	If anybody has a Publix grocery store in their vicinity, they're selling a GE USB adaptor kit for $4 that has a Mini A to female A adaptor for host-mode.	13:51
pupnik	ty for the tip AStorm	13:51
AStorm	reboot for mogg needed...	13:51
GeneralAntilles	Thank goodness for NuvoPearl and Plankton.	13:51
AStorm	brb	13:51
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* qwerty12 googles publix		13:51
eichi	how can i close this windows now	13:52
qwerty12	Have you tried back key?	13:52
eichi	lol thats it, thanks	13:52
qwerty12	hehe, it worked, I've never used IDEA :p :D	13:52
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12, best grocery store evar.	13:53
GeneralAntilles	They have randomly awesome deals on weird computer accessories.	13:53
qwerty12	sniff, I don't think they will be in London :(	13:53
GeneralAntilles	Like 12' USB cables for $3	13:53
GeneralAntilles	Or card readers for $8	13:53
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qwerty12	Wow	13:53
qwerty12	£1.50 is too cheap	13:54
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AStorm	no luck with canola	13:57
qwerty12	AStorm: I think INdT are working on it: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13668	13:57
AStorm	"working" lol	13:58
AStorm	can't they just use gnome-vfs for file detection?	13:58
AStorm	or just try to read every file with gstreamer instead of being smartass?	13:59
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AStorm	probably reinstalling canola will help	14:01
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lopz	morning	14:11
AStorm	no, midday	14:12
keesj	middag	14:12
AStorm	woot, new beta of canola	14:13
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* lcuk_2 hates losing things		14:14
AStorm	then add rfids to them :P	14:16
AStorm	and some reader to your N8x0	14:16
lcuk_2	not a bad idea actually	14:18
lcuk_2	the problem is - it was my 810 itself that went missing :S	14:18
GeneralAntilles	Ha	14:18
GeneralAntilles	Fail.	14:18
aquatix	:)	14:19
lcuk_2	not really, it was my missus	14:19
GeneralAntilles	Sure, sure.	14:19
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lcuk_2	yer i leave it plugged in last thing every night next to the bed - it seems to have a mind of its own though and ends up on missuses side	14:20
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	14:20
GeneralAntilles	You need to buy her one.	14:20
lcuk_2	shes got her own machine -its just not as portable as this one	14:21
AStorm	mwhaha	14:22
AStorm	yeah , Nokias are attracted to women	14:22
AStorm	work like magnets	14:22
* lcuk_2 . o O ( how do i make a cradle for a desktop with a crt ? )		14:22
GeneralAntilles	Maybe not like magnets.	14:23
GeneralAntilles	My 770 only got me one number. :P	14:23
AStorm	no no	14:23
AStorm	the Ns are attracted	14:23
lcuk_2	yer and that was flirt or divert	14:23
AStorm	not the girls to you	14:23
GeneralAntilles	:P, lcuk_2.	14:24
christefano	how is tab completion	14:24
christefano	turned on in the terminal?	14:24
lcuk_2	nokias are like little children - they need constant attention and teaching and automatically home into the breast	14:24
lcuk_2	os2008 console does completion	14:25
AStorm	hahaha	14:25
christefano	hey, it does. I wonder why it wasn't working before	14:26
lcuk_2	completion is a bit funny sometimes (or so i think) it wont complete things you know are there until after you get past certain breaks	14:28
AStorm	still no ogg :/	14:28
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christefano	ah. okay	14:28
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AStorm	hmm, had anyone got vorbis working in canola?	14:33
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Cptnodegard	canola youtube plugin FTW	14:48
AStorm	that works	14:51
AStorm	but still no vorbis!	14:51
AStorm	i need it!!!11	14:52
AStorm	:P	14:52
Cptnodegard	n800 has too crappy sound anyways so mp3 will do	14:54
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Tama^2	I doubt the choice of vorbis in this case had to do with quality	14:58
sxpert	Cptnodegard, the earbuds are pretty good	14:58
pupnik	fmopl synth on DSP would speed up dosbox 2x	14:59
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pupnik	wish it were easier to do	15:00
AStorm	Cptnodegard: no, i won't be reencoding my collection	15:00
AStorm	and, earbuds are shit	15:00
AStorm	i have better phones	15:00
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Cptnodegard	i got a shitload of phones, doesnt help the fundamental fact its not as good as a dedicated mp3 player. unless you have somethign crappy like an ipod	15:04
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AStorm	nah, it's close to my irivier T20	15:07
AStorm	and that has excellent sound quality	15:08
AStorm	about 90 dB dynamics, much less aliasiing than it too at freqs other than 44100 hz	15:09
Zic	hi, I've got the last Canola Beta 7 version with YouTube plugin, I want to save flash video in an other places of internal memory system, what can I do ?	15:11
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AStorm	use a symlink	15:12
AStorm	read the thread at ITT	15:12
Cptnodegard	i A/B'ed the n800 and my cowon d2 just this morning on beyerdynamic dt770 phones. the n800 isnt bad, but it lacks both soundstage, low frequency response and detail compared to the d2	15:12
AStorm	C2 cheats :)	15:13
AStorm	check it vs real audio	15:13
AStorm	it has some dsp	15:13
AStorm	it indeed lacks a bit of dynamic range	15:14
AStorm	but that's all	15:14
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* GeneralAntilles prefers his Axiom bookshelves.		15:15
AStorm	hehe	15:15
Cptnodegard	if the d2 sounds better i dont care if it cheats :p it was on flat EQ and no BBE enhancements	15:16
AStorm	low frequencies are all right here	15:16
AStorm	no changes, that is	15:16
AStorm	(ofc tested with my cheap HD497 on hans)	15:17
AStorm	*hand	15:17
Cptnodegard	i got a A/B switch, so i can connect two devices to the same headphones, play the same song simultaneousely and switch back and from. easier to detect differences that way	15:17
pupnik	bbe is still around?	15:18
pupnik	i bought their first sonix maximizer	15:18
AStorm	well, my switch is digital :)	15:19
Cptnodegard	i would love the n800 to sound as good as the alternative, but thats just not the case	15:19
Cptnodegard	yeah BBE is around	15:19
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AStorm	hehe	15:19
Cptnodegard	cowon use their technology on mp3 players	15:19
AStorm	my aureon 7.1 space doesn't agree	15:19
pupnik	man i used to run everything through that thing	15:19
AStorm	tested vs best libmad, 24bit	15:19
Cptnodegard	did some RMA tests on bbe vs EQ and the results are rather happyface	15:19
AStorm	hm, RMA on N810 would be fun	15:20
AStorm	don't know how to do that though	15:20
Cptnodegard	indeed	15:20
pupnik	sorry what is RMA?	15:20
Cptnodegard	all you need is a sound card with line in, a cable, and the program	15:20
AStorm	RightMark Audio test	15:20
Cptnodegard	rightmark audio analyzer	15:21
pupnik	ty	15:21
AStorm	I have one... buthow to make N810 play the test?	15:21
Cptnodegard	it measure the frequency response of audio sources	15:21
Cptnodegard	RMA spits out some files (wav) that you put on the n810	15:21
AStorm	and IMD, THD+N	15:21
AStorm	hmm :)	15:21
pupnik	so you didn't get horrid results from headphone jack?	15:22
AStorm	I'd expect about 90dB, no or slight IMD	15:22
Cptnodegard	im expecting some noticable crossover	15:22
pupnik	when i got my N810 i had a lot of distortion - like a broken speaker-cone in a telephone sound	15:22
Cptnodegard	some speakers cant deal with the 4 pin of the nokias, thats what cause distortion	15:23
pupnik	no, like CB radio sound	15:23
Cptnodegard	my logitech mm28 for instance	15:23
pupnik	hmm	15:23
AStorm	right, there's distortion if tghe volume is max	15:23
pupnik	now it's clear and i have no idea why	15:23
AStorm	haha	15:23
AStorm	maybe loose ground?	15:23
pupnik	well it was so bad that if i'd have paid full retail i would have returned it	15:24
pupnik	oh well. gone now	15:24
pupnik	i just discovered a file in my sources directory ... modified_raw_meat_for_transp_water_e3l1_t.zip	15:25
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unique311	pupnik, how goes the project?	15:33
AStorm	... sniff ... need vorbis	15:33
pupnik	uh playtesting is going well	15:34
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Italodance	:D	16:17
Italodance	i want max payne 1 2 please someone create it	16:18
GeneralAntilles	Convince them to compile it for ARM.	16:18
Italodance	yes too	16:20
lcuk_2	ok, i want to try something	16:22
lcuk_2	pupnik, are you around	16:22
lcuk_2	GeneralAntilles, i know you have sounded interested, if you would send a pm with your mail address i will send you something to playwith	16:23
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lcuk_2	GeneralAntilles, :) got it - i will mail you a test	16:25
lcuk_2	any others whilst I am mailing out?	16:27
lcuk_2	sent :)	16:29
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lcuk_2	GeneralAntilles, did you get it?	16:37
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, playing now.	16:37
lcuk_2	:D so it runs?	16:37
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	16:37
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lcuk_2	brutal	16:37
GeneralAntilles	Framerate isn't as impressive as I was led to believe. :P	16:37
GeneralAntilles	Doesn't seem to like sizes under 20pts	16:38
lcuk_2	frame isnt drawn if you dont move - turn on the colorcube and it renders at fullspeed	16:38
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lcuk_2	i only tested with a couple of fonts - its putting the widths onto a 4 pixel boundary so more noticable on proportional fonts	16:39
lcuk_2	and since i read at 24 anyway its not a bother :P	16:40
GeneralAntilles	It doesn't react to SIGINT	16:40
GeneralAntilles	Took me a little while to figure out how to make it dead. <_<	16:41
lcuk_2	it says it on the first page	16:41
AStorm	canola youtube plugin needs "next page" for its search	16:41
lcuk_2	what is sigint tho? ctrl c?	16:41
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	16:41
GeneralAntilles	What, the readme?	16:41
GeneralAntilles	Fuck dat sheet.	16:41
lcuk_2	yer - also the default page thats displayed	16:41
AStorm	?	16:42
lcuk_2	if you ran the program with no params it shows that readme :)	16:42
lcuk_2	on the first page it says how to escape	16:42
GeneralAntilles	Ah	16:42
GeneralAntilles	I tried to run it without arguments first	16:42
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GeneralAntilles	but it chocked since the readme wasn't there.	16:42
GeneralAntilles	choked, even.	16:43
lcuk_2	you just copied the file instead of extracting the archive	16:43
GeneralAntilles	My mail software is on the computer. :P	16:43
* lcuk_2 makes a note and puts readme into source		16:43
GeneralAntilles	Eh, it wont matter once you package it.	16:43
GeneralAntilles	Very interesting anyway.	16:44
lcuk_2	its the start of me reading properly on my maemo :)	16:44
GeneralAntilles	I think it'll end up complementing FBReader rather than replacing it for me.	16:44
* GeneralAntilles still wants to setup a system to sync FBReader between multiple tablets.		16:45
* lcuk_2 puts a syncmasterfolder option in and ensures reading data is kept in sync ;)		16:46
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lcuk_2	right, if anyone else wants a look at liqreader pm me with your address and i'll send it out. im off for a while	16:48
GeneralAntilles	Thanks, lcuk_2.	16:48
lcuk_2	:)	16:48
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AStorm	hehe	16:50
AStorm	another rss reader?	16:51
Navi	lcuk_2 is so awesome	16:51
AStorm	check if it works with feeds from racjonalista.pl	16:51
AStorm	the default one doesn't like them	16:51
GeneralAntilles	RSS reader? <_<	16:51
GeneralAntilles	No.	16:51
AStorm	mhm	16:51
AStorm	so what is it?	16:51
GeneralAntilles	It's an ebook reader. :P	16:51
AStorm	yay	16:52
Navi	cool	16:52
GeneralAntilles	Interesting mostly because of the lack of tearing.	16:52
Navi	ooh	16:53
Navi	even better	16:53
Navi	gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme	16:53
GeneralAntilles	Autoscroll, too.	16:54
AStorm	whee!	16:54
AStorm	supports pdfs too?	16:54
GeneralAntilles	Uh, no.	16:54
lcuk_2	hahaha it barely supports txt yet (i just noticed a bug..)	16:54
AStorm	heh	16:55
GeneralAntilles	PDFs are teh suck.	16:55
AStorm	but necessary suck	16:55
GeneralAntilles	lcuk_2, I'd like to see you pull that off, though.	16:55
GeneralAntilles	Just for the hilarity factor.	16:55
GeneralAntilles	SDL PDFs . . .	16:55
AStorm	btw, i need a working rss reader	16:55
AStorm	any hints?	16:55
GeneralAntilles	9 times out of 10 PDFs are used where they shouldn't be.	16:55
lcuk_2	pdf is just flated text mainly in locations - if i can keep the number of fonts down its not outside the bnounds	16:55
GeneralAntilles	Good luck with that. :P	16:56
AStorm	not really	16:56
lcuk_2	this thing can blit text anywhere rapidly	16:56
AStorm	it's often also gfx	16:56
AStorm	evince works fast	16:56
GeneralAntilles	The pictures will kill the framerate.	16:56
lcuk_2	pictures are just big glyphs :)	16:56
GeneralAntilles	Gotta load them, though.	16:57
AStorm	(but the default one is better integrated)	16:57
* lcuk_2 digs out his old vb pdf parser		16:57
AStorm	harhar	16:57
AStorm	VB, now that's the real epitome of suck	16:58
AStorm	ok now, how to get canola to read vorbis?	16:58
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AStorm	i'm missing that ogg plugin	17:11
AStorm	the deb link at ITT is nvalid	17:11
AStorm	ah well	17:15
AStorm	should work with new ogg-support too	17:15
mgedmin	which one is better -- mogg or ogg-support	17:16
mgedmin	?	17:16
* mgedmin hates having a keyboard with enter shaped like shift		17:16
AStorm	ogg-support should be faster	17:18
AStorm	but none works	17:18
AStorm	hehehe	17:20
AStorm	there are worse	17:20
AStorm	keyboards with small / key	17:20
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Navi	none works?	17:22
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mgedmin	I'm somehow not surprised	17:23
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AStorm	none, as they haven't updated canola scanner plugin yet...	17:30
AStorm	tbd in this week	17:30
mgedmin	hm	17:31
AStorm	what is the name of the improved mail app?	17:31
mgedmin	"works" and "works with canola" are different things	17:31
GeneralAntilles	Modest	17:31
mgedmin	AStorm: modest	17:31
AStorm	mhm	17:31
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lcuk	why does apple not love the f5 and f6 keys?	17:39
lcuk	all the others have additional icons, 5 and 6 are bare	17:40
mgedmin	reserved for future use ;)	17:41
Jaffa	:)	17:41
Jaffa	Anyone know of a Nokia car charger with a straight, rather than curly, cable?	17:42
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woodong50	hi	17:45
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AStorm	how to bind evince to pdf file format?	17:48
AStorm	and modest to email notifier?	17:48
Jaffa	Fiddling around with mime types etc.	17:50
AStorm	where?	17:50
Jaffa	See freedesktop.org for details on the specs	17:50
AStorm	ok...	17:51
AStorm	no gui for that? (like rox-mime)	17:51
Jaffa	NAFAIK	17:51
AStorm	blah	17:52
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AStorm	brb	18:01
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AStorm	hmm, could someone pastebin me /usr/share/mime/packages/<something-with-email>.xml	18:14
AStorm	?	18:14
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mgedmin	from where? maemo, random desktop linux system?	18:15
Jaffa	AStorm: my N810 has no XML files under /usr/share/mime containing the text 'email'	18:16
AStorm	maemo	18:16
AStorm	no no	18:16
Jaffa	And there's no osso-email.xml under .../package/s	18:16
AStorm	it should have mailto inside	18:16
AStorm	grep for mail please	18:16
Jaffa	Nope.	18:16
* Jaffa grepped for 'email' cos osso-email's the default handler.		18:16
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AStorm	hmmm	18:17
AStorm	so where is that registered?	18:17
Jaffa	DBUS?	18:18
AStorm	bleh, more xml to hack	18:18
lcuk_2	does every c program wanting sigterm ctrl c handling have to explicitely code it in? or is my program ignoring them because of something i am doing	18:22
AStorm	probably gtk main loop installs its own handler	18:23
lcuk_2	its got init code for x and sdl and sdl_ttf and theres at least one atexit() but i would have thought it would still react and close the program	18:24
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lcuk_2	(and xv)	18:24
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AStorm	yep, it's the signal call	18:26
AStorm	and it's SIGINT, not SIGTERM	18:26
lcuk_2	so if i remove the atexit the program should revert to complete default and just exit when ctrl c is pressed?	18:27
AStorm	no	18:29
AStorm	atexit has nothing to do with signals	18:29
lcuk_2	ok - but how would i respond to ctrl c? is it something i have to explicitely do or does ssh handle it?	18:30
AStorm	by default it should close the app	18:30
AStorm	unless something handles it	18:30
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AStorm	are you using signal?	18:31
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lcuk_2	ive got no signal() calls in my code.	18:31
AStorm	hm	18:31
lcuk_2	nor do i reference signal.h	18:31
AStorm	gtk/glib event loop?	18:31
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lcuk_2	no, its x based, i call XNextEvent	18:32
AStorm	mhm	18:32
AStorm	ok, i've a q	18:32
AStorm	any good app to handle video and pic capture?	18:32
lcuk_2	when i am running locally i get ctrl c keypresses, but over ssh it shouldnt come in as a key and should send a sig	18:32
AStorm	lcuk_2: depends on ssh client	18:33
lcuk_2	ive not seen much - only basic camera app - the sensor is so substandard that its not pushed	18:33
AStorm	:P	18:33
AStorm	not so, standard webcam quality	18:33
lcuk_2	yer, whats the n95 got?	18:34
qwerty12	5 MP afaik	18:34
AStorm	yep	18:34
lcuk_2	"webcam" quality is substandard :)	18:34
AStorm	and this one is 1.5 or so	18:34
AStorm	lcuk_2: nope	18:34
AStorm	it's not a camera after all	18:35
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lcuk_2	n810 jack of all trades.	18:36
AStorm	nope	18:36
AStorm	it doesn't even have a tv out	18:37
AStorm	:P	18:37
lcuk_2	http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/14/nokia-nobounds-projects-promises-full-hd-video-over-usb-or-wlan/	18:37
AStorm	hahaha	18:37
lcuk_2	its contrived but as near as you are gonna get	18:38
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AStorm	it's n800	18:40
AStorm	n810 doesn't have video out	18:41
qwerty12	So doesn't N800	18:41
MangoFusion	0_0	18:41
AStorm	it has a dongle?	18:41
qwerty12	In the nobounds, they demonstrate with N810	18:41
qwerty12	Yes	18:41
AStorm	hmm	18:41
AStorm	I want one for n810	18:41
qwerty12	They say N800 will be supported though (which is good for me)	18:41
lcuk_2	one other thing on all the debunking i notice. all the apps are deffo windows programs - the xp titlebars are visible	18:41
lcuk_2	its just mirroring	18:42
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AStorm	heh	18:45
AStorm	so, where do i get the host cable?	18:46
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lcuk_2	you got one with the 810	18:48
lcuk_2	its a sync cable with a f<->f connector :)	18:48
lcuk_2	host mode can be enabled with a command	18:48
AStorm	nope, it's said the cable needs a hardware tweak	18:54
AStorm	some wire to be shorted to the ground	18:54
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pH5	AStorm: this is only needed to switch into host mode automatically.	18:56
AStorm	mhm	18:56
pH5	as lcuk_2 said, you can enable host mode manually	18:56
AStorm	with a nice applet?	18:56
qwerty12	usb-otg-plugin	18:56
qwerty12	I actually updated the wiki page on this a bit at internet tablet talk	18:57
AStorm	mhm	18:57
AStorm	so i have to google for it	18:57
AStorm	any repo?	18:58
qwerty12	Check this : http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_USB_Host_mode_on_the_N800_using_OS_2008	18:58
qwerty12	Look at link at end for applet	18:58
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AStorm	heh	19:05
Navi	pupnik, around?	19:05
AStorm	usbcontrol is heavy!	19:05
qwerty12	lol you mean heavy as in great?	19:05
AStorm	no, as in large	19:05
qwerty12	My bad, slang on the brain :P	19:06
qwerty12	Brb, need to reboot into windows to use a vfat check that actually does something.	19:06
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AStorm	lol	19:06
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mgedmin	qwerty12 doesn't know about dosfsck -r	19:07
* mgedmin didn't know either until yesterday		19:07
* mgedmin had to study the fricking manual page		19:07
KotCzarny	:>	19:08
KotCzarny	isn't that what are man pages for?	19:08
mgedmin	perhaps, but it's rude to ask me questions "do you want to repair this" and then ignore the answers quietly because I didn't pass the -r option	19:09
mgedmin	rude, I say	19:09
KotCzarny	it may be a bug	19:09
KotCzarny	then	19:09
KotCzarny	:)	19:09
mgedmin	probably is	19:09
mgedmin	there's a though	19:09
AStorm	how do i disable xchat's tray?	19:09
mgedmin	perhaps I should report it	19:09
mgedmin	wow	19:09
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Italodance	USB.Safely.Remove.v3.3.1.617.Cracked-NoPE :D	19:10
Italodance	it's good for us yeah!	19:11
KotCzarny	nope, it isn't	19:11
Italodance	why? :I	19:11
KotCzarny	50% chance it's a trojan	19:11
Italodance	lol	19:11
Italodance	no	19:12
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AStorm	hmm hmm	19:16
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AStorm	usbnet mode hung the machine	19:16
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* mgedmin creates https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dosfstools/+bug/205206		19:18
qwerty12	mgedmin: "qwerty12 doesn't know about dosfsck -r". Now, I do, thanks!. I was using fsck.vfat	19:19
mgedmin	I think it's the same thing	19:19
KotCzarny	yup	19:19
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KotCzarny	fsck.* are usually symlinks	19:19
mgedmin	yup, symlink	19:19
qwerty12	Lol, I'm useless :D. I can't believe I went into windows :(	19:19
mgedmin	in my opinion it's a bug in dosfsck rather than a bug in you :)	19:20
mgedmin	I was very surprised yesterday when I ran dosfsck twice and it showed me the exact same errors on the second run	19:20
qwerty12	Thanks :D, I ran it 3 times and I got the same errors each time. I didn't look really closly though.	19:20
KotCzarny	mgedmin: otoh maybe they're just cautious	19:21
mgedmin	I'm not objecting to not repairing stuff by default	19:21
mgedmin	I'm objecting to the pretending to do the repairs without giving any useful information to the user	19:21
KotCzarny	i agree to this one	19:21
KotCzarny	:)	19:21
qwerty12	I agree with mgedmin, I think its quite good behaviour but it should tell you that nothing was repaired and you should run it with -r option.	19:22
AStorm	hmm, broken openssh update	19:23
qwerty12	openssh is always breaking for me with updates	19:23
qwerty12	I just remove and re install now.	19:23
AStorm	interdeps, all 3 pkgs need simultaneous update	19:23
qwerty12	You can use apt-get upgrade but its easier (better?) to remove and reinstall imho	19:24
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AStorm	ok then	19:28
Cptnodegard	lol i made some comparison pics between itouch/iphone and n8x0, resolution wise	19:30
AStorm	hehehe	19:30
Cptnodegard	fullscreen itouch fitsin smallscreen canola	19:31
AStorm	iFoo loses	19:31
Cptnodegard	http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/youtube-browsing.jpg	19:31
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Cptnodegard	http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/youtube-playback.jpg	19:31
qwerty12	Lol in my work experience my friend went into o2 store to play with iphone and he searched for redtube and the lady there saw him :D	19:31
Cptnodegard	redtube?	19:31
qwerty12	Dont search for it	19:32
Cptnodegard	what is it?	19:32
qwerty12	xxx tube...	19:32
Cptnodegard	lol	19:32
Cptnodegard	thgouth that was porno tube or something	19:32
qwerty12	theres redtube as well lol	19:32
Cptnodegard	horny people and their websites -.-	19:33
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mgedmin	please don't make me install canola again!	19:34
Cptnodegard	oh?	19:34
mgedmin	I will be strong! I will avoid closed-source software!	19:34
Cptnodegard	lol	19:35
mgedmin	I didn't buy an iphone, after all	19:35
KotCzarny	canola is closed source?	19:35
qwerty12	canolad is oss :P	19:35
mgedmin	what?	19:35
mgedmin	since when?	19:35
Cptnodegard	september 1536	19:35
mgedmin	that's the greatest news since os2008 got released, if true	19:35
qwerty12	I'm joking about, canolad is one of the bits that make up canola. canola is not oss itself tho	19:36
qwerty12	http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/developer.html	19:36
Cptnodegard	i wouldnt be able to do anything with the source anyways so doesnt bother me	19:36
qwerty12	lol same here :D	19:36
qwerty12	If something compiles in scratchbox without any modification, then I'm happy :p	19:36
mgedmin	ah, I thought it was a typo	19:36
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Cptnodegard	if the release thread is without any trace of "just do this in xterm"-quotes then im happy :p	19:37
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qwerty12	mgedmin: I see what you mean, a and d are close. Cptnodegard: Lol, I don't mind xterm :P	19:37
Cptnodegard	i have no linux experience whatsoever	19:38
Cptnodegard	most threads on itt gives me a headache	19:38
Cptnodegard	looks like someone whacked the keyboard repeatedly in to the wall and posted the resulting symbols	19:39
Cptnodegard	:D	19:39
qwerty12	I actually hadn't touched Linux in years but I'm amazed at what I know	19:39
qwerty12	lol	19:39
qwerty12	openssh is still installing... :@	19:40
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AStorm	how can i downgrade mplayer?	19:56
KotCzarny	install manually older package?	19:56
qwerty12	remove it and reinstall old one from deb	19:56
AStorm	yeah right	19:56
KotCzarny	or just extract binary and put it in /usr/local/bin	19:56
qwerty12	I actually keep 24 & 26 on my N800	19:56
KotCzarny	:)	19:56
AStorm	but where do i get the deb from	19:56
KotCzarny	lol	19:56
KotCzarny	that's a newbie question	19:57
KotCzarny	:)	19:57
KotCzarny	from repo of course	19:57
AStorm	yeah	19:57
AStorm	path?	19:57
AStorm	dist/chinook/what?	19:57
KotCzarny	http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/m/mplayer/	19:58
KotCzarny	you can also try package authors homepage	19:58
KotCzarny	:)	19:58
AStorm	mhm	19:58
KotCzarny	https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=54	19:59
AStorm	hope the port the patch to the new one	20:02
KotCzarny	but there's no .26 yet	20:02
AStorm	(integer flv decode)	20:02
KotCzarny	in that dir	20:02
AStorm	in testing	20:02
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Gepsu	hi, what is the easiest way to update the content of a container?	20:21
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drwx	hi	22:20
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drwx	I'm trying canola youtube plugin it's amazing	22:21
drwx	but do you know if it is possible to save youtube video on a mmc and not on the 256mo internal memory?	22:22
MangoFusion	technically you could save onto a mmc if you booted off of one	22:23
KotCzarny	if it saves them to some dir, just make a symlink?	22:23
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MangoFusion	or for a slightly more sane approach, perhaps you could symlink the directory where the YT videos are stored to a directory on your mmc?	22:24
MangoFusion	yes	22:24
drwx	good idea	22:24
drwx	thank you ;-)	22:25
KotCzarny	lol	22:25
lcuk_2	thats a workaround not a solution ;) might be an idea to mention somewhere on the official list if there is one - that way the devs can see if theres a real need	22:26
drwx	true	22:26
KotCzarny	they should watch #maemo then!	22:26
KotCzarny	;)	22:26
* lcuk_2 doesnt mind workarounds tho		22:26
drwx	I think there is a real need because 256mo is not much for all the youtube videos...	22:27
KotCzarny	maybe they're developing on n810	22:27
lcuk_2	and if something happens to the internal memory then you are done for	22:27
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Grackle	My N800 should arrive on Monday. ^_^	22:28
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lcuk_2	lost in the post? it should be an 810 nowadays :P	22:28
drwx	I have a N800 and a N810	22:28
Grackle	I have a 770, but I realized how much better the N800 was and ordered one before the 770 even got here.	22:28
KotCzarny	810 is inferior to 800	22:28
KotCzarny	imo	22:28
KotCzarny	:)	22:28
drwx	no I have both, and N810 is better	22:28
Grackle	I would like the screen and keyboard of the 810, but I don't really have that kind of money.	22:28
lcuk_2	810 extensions are inferior to 800 + extensions. but style is everything and the 810 looks better	22:29
KotCzarny	810 only has better looks and hw kb	22:29
Grackle	Extensions?	22:29
lcuk_2	yer - part time keyboard :)	22:29
lcuk_2	gps	22:29
KotCzarny	everything else is worse	22:29
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Grackle	The 810 has a sunlight viewable screen too, doesn't it?	22:29
lcuk_2	i dont know i dont take it out in the car cos gps takes so long to fix its not worth it	22:30
KotCzarny	:>	22:30
lcuk_2	if i set it going before i go to work i am there before its connected	22:30
lcuk_2	(30min drive)	22:30
Grackle	haha :\|	22:30
KotCzarny	yup	22:30
KotCzarny	and wbt-210 is only 95$	22:30
lcuk_2	its embarrassing	22:30
KotCzarny	and has ~1-3sec fix	22:30
KotCzarny	:>	22:30
Grackle	That's unfortunate.	22:30
Grackle	hah	22:30
KotCzarny	and <2.5m resolution	22:31
KotCzarny	(:	22:31
lcuk_2	810 can re-fix in a few seconds as well, its just that first time is a bitch - its like the 40year old virgin	22:31
KotCzarny	probably software fixable..	22:31
KotCzarny	or maybe not	22:31
KotCzarny	:)	22:31
Grackle	Shouldn't the first time be really quick then?	22:31
lcuk_2	btw kot, pm me your addy and i will let you try a playtest :)	22:31
KotCzarny	i'm not registered :)	22:31
KotCzarny	tjosko at yahoo dot com	22:32
lcuk_2	:)	22:32
lcuk_2	its a very rough playtest	22:32
Grackle	Oh, does anyone have an N800 camera photo that I could see? I'm just curious about the quality.. I've played with tiny/cheap webcams before, and a lot of them suck pretty hard.	22:33
KotCzarny	grackle: it's bad	22:33
KotCzarny	i can show you .avi of it	22:33
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MangoFusion	n800 camera == euuuurrgh!!!	22:33
Grackle	Ah well don't go out of your way to do it, I suppose that's good enough.	22:33
Grackle	hah :\|	22:34
KotCzarny	you meant, 'bad enough'	22:34
KotCzarny	:)	22:34
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Grackle	yeah..	22:34
KotCzarny	imagine first cellphone cameras	22:34
KotCzarny	it's something like that	22:34
MangoFusion	though then again if all you are doing is letting other people see your mugshot, then it's not so bad	22:34
KotCzarny	bah. what i am saying	22:35
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KotCzarny	even recent moto razr is bad.	22:35
lcuk_2	i want to use cam to register liqreader users ;)	22:35
KotCzarny	luckily n800 camera is hidden by default	22:36
KotCzarny	;)	22:36
Grackle	haha	22:36
wazd	well, n800 cam is good on bright light :)	22:36
lcuk_2	its not gonna take automatically (that will be my security program though)	22:36
KotCzarny	(another 810 inferiority ;)	22:36
Grackle	:P	22:36
lcuk_2	use a sticker over camera	22:36
Grackle	haha	22:36
lcuk_2	ive got one already over my ambient sensor	22:36
KotCzarny	and loose 'chic advantage' of your n810?	22:36
KotCzarny	:>	22:36
wazd	And in the dark light every mobile camera suck SLR's ))	22:37
Grackle	Yes, a sticker that says "Nope, no crappy webcams here!"	22:37
KotCzarny	then you can have 800 as well	22:37
KotCzarny	:)	22:37
lcuk_2	nahh i gain a "well done" sticker (from my youngest)	22:37
lcuk_2	its got a smiley and everythin :D	22:37
KotCzarny	yeeeah, sure	22:37
KotCzarny	but it's still a 'patch'	22:37
KotCzarny	:)	22:37
Grackle	Have you guys tried poky linux on the IT?	22:37
wazd	today I had a bad thing and dropped my n800 to the floor	22:37
lcuk_2	lol @ patch	22:37
Grackle	yikes	22:38
lcuk_2	pokey linux?	22:38
Grackle	http://pokylinux.org/	22:38
KotCzarny	wazd: last time they checked it wasn't functional	22:38
KotCzarny	i mean no connectivity etc.	22:38
KotCzarny	no pm too	22:38
Grackle	The internet tablet version is very in-development, but what's there is very nice.	22:38
smackpotato	the 810 has an awsume screen	22:39
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Grackle	The interface is much better than openmoko/hildon, from a usability standpoint anyway.	22:39
lcuk_2	its touch sensitivity is lacking though - everyone wants to use finger to touch and slide	22:39
wazd	KotCzarny: who? where? how much?)	22:39
lcuk_2	you kind of press and judder	22:39
KotCzarny	wazd: google for irclogs	22:39
KotCzarny	:)	22:39
Grackle	lcuk_2: poky or the n810? Who's talking to who? is confused	22:40
Grackle	Because I did notice that the touch sensitivity in poky is rather low.	22:40
lcuk_2	im on about the touch on the actual device - it doesnt matter which os is controlling it - its just not sensitive enough	22:40
lcuk_2	ipod has true glass screen and works well	22:40
lcuk_2	(but needs finger)	22:40
lcuk_2	this is a stylus controlled screen which is a bit of a shame	22:41
Grackle	Ah. My comment was referring to poky on the 770. Sensitivity threshold is too high.	22:41
Grackle	ipod is multitouch, too.	22:41
* Grackle would like a multitouch display		22:41
lcuk_2	and low res	22:41
Grackle	yeah, much lower	22:42
smackpotato	im talking to the chanel conversation in general but am 5 minutes behind the conversation. Im slow of thinking	22:42
lcuk_2	my brain gets lag sometimes - most often caused by intake of beer	22:42
KotCzarny	lcuk: where's the source?	22:43
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lcuk_2	on my drive	22:43
wazd	awww, multitouch!) Now you can pinch your fotos!)	22:43
wazd	I think we need capacitive touchscreen but not multitouch itself :)	22:43
smackpotato	im sure the 810 has a glass screen its not scratching as much as my 700	22:44
Grackle	wazd: It's noticeable when using both thumbs on the screen (for instance when typing with thumbs)	22:44
lcuk_2	smack - it doesnt	22:44
Grackle	A multitouch screen would handle my large mashing thumbs better	22:44
lcuk_2	glass doesnt flex	22:44
smackpotato	who knew	22:44
lcuk_2	(as much)	22:44
bilboed	multitouch on the iphone is not multitouch, it's area-touch (it only recognizes the rectangular area where all your fingers are in)	22:44
glass	i'm pretty flexible	22:44
glass	(no i'm not)	22:44
lcuk_2	lol	22:44
KotCzarny	:>	22:45
Grackle	bilboed: Hm, that's interesting. Well, I would like that on the IT. :P	22:45
Grackle	Could that be done with the IT's hardware?	22:45
wazd	no)	22:45
wazd	It's capacitive touchscreen feature	22:45
Grackle	Ah.	22:46
wazd	IT haven't got it for now	22:46
KotCzarny	./liqreader: error while loading shared libraries: libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0	22:46
KotCzarny	erm	22:46
lcuk_2	my old tablet had to use a powered stylus - i could lean on it and not intefere - i think a big touchscreen now would throw me off - try leaning on one corner of your 8x0 whilst using the other corner	22:46
KotCzarny	E: Couldn't find package libSDL_ttf	22:47
KotCzarny	(from apt-get)	22:47
Grackle	apt-cache search libsdl	22:47
lcuk_2	:( thought all that was preinstalled? ahhh well at least i know to put it into an eventual package	22:47
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Grackle	Might be there, just not with that name.	22:47
KotCzarny	nope	22:48
KotCzarny	arm. it's libsdl-ttf2.0-0	22:48
* Grackle goes off to take a shower while bitbake runs		22:48
KotCzarny	lcuk: i like it	22:49
KotCzarny	can i get the source?	22:49
lcuk_2	once i release it yes certainly	22:50
KotCzarny	when it will be?	22:50
* lcuk_2 takes a leaf out of duke nukems book.		22:50
lcuk_2	hopefully soon as i get some webspace properly	22:50
KotCzarny	i can give you feature ide right now	22:51
KotCzarny	add finger-slide-multiplier	22:51
KotCzarny	:)	22:51
lcuk_2	i did do - it felt awful though - mainly because i didnt have anything showing where in document you were	22:51
KotCzarny	right now it's tiresome a little	22:51
lcuk_2	yer i know - theres lots i want to add to it - theres bugs in this one at present even now it just shows that fullscreen flicker free rendering can be done	22:52
KotCzarny	but i give it heads-up	22:53
KotCzarny	i like it	22:53
lcuk_2	:D	22:53
KotCzarny	just don't overhildonize it	22:53
KotCzarny	so it could be easily ported to regular linux too	22:53
lcuk_2	im seriously under hildonized at present	22:53
lcuk_2	yes i know	22:53
KotCzarny	make it optional	22:54
KotCzarny	i would love good reader on my laptop too	22:54
lcuk_2	it needs to be usable and play nice in both fullscreen and windowed but beyond that theres nothing specifically hildon	22:54
wazd	"Overhildonizer" )	22:54
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wazd	Sounds like blockbuster)	22:54
smackpotato	here is a random question, the core cursor shows up by commenting out the blurb about the transparent theme, so in gtk setting cusor-theme-name will i get the core cursor, and will it happen immediatly or next boot	22:54
KotCzarny	potato: probably after wm restart	22:55
KotCzarny	:)	22:55
lcuk_2	have you considered isolo through WINE ?	22:55
lcuk_2	im not sure how it would go..	22:55
KotCzarny	wine is too big	22:55
smackpotato	tx	22:55
lcuk_2	have you seen the colorcube?	22:56
KotCzarny	yup	22:56
KotCzarny	works ok	22:56
lcuk_2	first attempt at seeing how all 3 planes operate	22:56
KotCzarny	fps ~9-11	22:56
lcuk_2	o rly?	22:56
lcuk_2	stable 26/27 solid?	22:56
lcuk_2	it shouldnt clock down	22:56
KotCzarny	yup	22:56
lcuk_2	thats odd..	22:56
KotCzarny	add an option for fps to be printed out on stdout	22:56
lcuk_2	are you running on a lower cpu setting?	22:57
KotCzarny	then i can print you the stats	22:57
KotCzarny	lcuk: it's running on default	22:57
lcuk_2	hmm did i remove that from the log	22:57
KotCzarny	so pm kicks in probably	22:57
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KotCzarny	also handle ctrl-c	22:57
KotCzarny	;)	22:57
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KotCzarny	btw. don't disable pm, i would prefer some tearing to battery drain	22:59
lcuk_2	doh! //app_log("Main loop complete: %i frames, average fps %f\n",framecount,app_fps(tzs,tz0,framecount));	23:00
KotCzarny	:)	23:00
lcuk_2	pm?	23:00
KotCzarny	power management	23:00
KotCzarny	\|> Incoming/PaulOakenfol - PeteTong & SebFontaine -EssentialMix - Live @ Creamfie.mp3.	23:00
lcuk_2	i dont do anything with it	23:00
lcuk_2	and when not showing the cube it only renders a frame after it detects a mouse eevent	23:00
KotCzarny	i remember you saying something about keeping cpu at 100%	23:01
KotCzarny	;)	23:01
lcuk_2	ie its not going like the clappers	23:01
KotCzarny	mhm	23:01
KotCzarny	:)	23:01
lcuk_2	you can see that by using -fpsshow	23:01
KotCzarny	yes	23:01
lcuk_2	i call into XNextEvent and wait patiently for an event to come	23:01
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lcuk_2	i asked about this ctrl c thing earlier - in the normal flow of things would a program have to explicitely register ctrl c handler, or is reader doing something it shouldnt	23:02
lcuk_2	(i couldnt get a straight answer earlier)	23:02
KotCzarny	it should register a signal i think	23:03
KotCzarny	otherwise it will be ignored	23:03
lcuk_2	right - thats why im not capturing anything - im used to it being handled automatically	23:03
lcuk_2	ill put a capture trap in later on then	23:03
KotCzarny	it's a 2 liner anyway	23:03
KotCzarny	:)	23:03
lcuk_2	which is best host for applications? it should have svn type things and management etc	23:04
* lcuk_2 is thinking of sourceforge but theres gotta be others		23:04
KotCzarny	if the project is small...	23:04
KotCzarny	just keep current .tar.gz of the sources	23:04
skibur	anybody installed ettercap? on the n800? i can't find the executable.	23:04
lcuk_2	its just zipped up at present	23:05
lcuk_2	a whopping 23k! ;)	23:05
KotCzarny	:)	23:05
lcuk_2	sorry - 60k :P that was old one	23:05
KotCzarny	small but functional	23:05
qwerty12_N800	skibur: search internet tablet talk, some 1 has ng afair	23:05
skibur	ok	23:06
qwerty12_N800	*Afaicr	23:06
skibur	i gotcha	23:06
qwerty12_N800	Hehe, i like to correct myself :p	23:08
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KotCzarny	lcuk: just run a thttpd off some dir and send a link	23:12
KotCzarny	:)	23:12
KotCzarny	saving from webmail requires so many click	23:13
KotCzarny	s	23:13
KotCzarny	:)	23:13
lcuk_2	since im on a windows box thats a hell of a lot of faffing	23:13
lcuk_2	ill get there..	23:13
KotCzarny	:>	23:13
KotCzarny	i believe thttpd compiles under cygwin	23:13
KotCzarny	if you want an .exe.. ;)	23:14
lcuk_2	actually i think ive got ftp server somewhere around already setup	23:14
KotCzarny	nah.	23:14
KotCzarny	thttpd.	23:14
KotCzarny	:)	23:14
KotCzarny	ftp doesn't play nice behind firewall	23:14
lcuk_2	:D i could use the vb webserver thats around	23:14
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\|zeus\|	hm. what pacakge should i install to get dmesg on n810?	23:17
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KotCzarny	none, i believe it's already there	23:17
lcuk_2	its already included ?	23:17
KotCzarny	(via busybox)	23:17
qwerty12_N800	I thought it was standard linux anyway?	23:17
skibur	is svn available for n800?	23:17
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KotCzarny	qwerty: standard as long you don't use busybox	23:18
KotCzarny	:>	23:18
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qwerty12_N800	Ah right	23:18
qwerty12_N800	:)	23:18
\|zeus\|	oh yea	23:19
\|zeus\|	it here	23:19
qwerty12_N800	Btw, anybody know any proper irc client for chinook? Rtcomm beta wont work with irc for me and pidgin is a bit slow	23:19
\|zeus\|	but it doesn't recognize my minisd	23:19
\|zeus\|	at all	23:19
\|zeus\|	o_O	23:19
KotCzarny	qwerty: irssi?	23:20
KotCzarny	;)	23:20
\|zeus\|	even dmesg doesn't say anything	23:20
KotCzarny	zeus: connect usb cable and check on pc?	23:20
KotCzarny	it should at least export device, maybe partition table is b0rken	23:20
KotCzarny	or fs itself	23:20
\|zeus\|	KotCzarny: even _dmesg_ doesn't say anything	23:21
qwerty12_N800	Does dmesg by default?	23:21
qwerty12_N800	Kernel has options for mmc debug	23:22
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qwerty12_N800	I posted a kernel for someone else with it compiled	23:22
KotCzarny	lcuk: 17:24:04 Main loop complete: 194 frames, average fps 9.317964	23:23
KotCzarny	with colorcube	23:23
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lcuk_2	humm	23:25
KotCzarny	also you should add some error handling	23:25
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KotCzarny	i had to kill -9 it after: Xlib: sequence lost (0x101cf > 0x1d0) in reply type 0x5d!	23:25
KotCzarny	my wifi is abused a little now	23:25
lcuk_2	humm indeed	23:26
lcuk_2	you on 800?	23:26
KotCzarny	yes	23:26
KotCzarny	17:26:47 Main loop complete: 98 frames, average fps 8.602528	23:26
KotCzarny	that's without colocube and with some scrolling	23:26
lcuk_2	without cube it should never reach average fps very high - it sits idle for most of the time	23:27
KotCzarny	yes	23:27
lcuk_2	but with it it really shouldnt be running slowly	23:27
KotCzarny	it sometimes shows ~27	23:27
lcuk_2	the only way i can force the slowness is to call:	23:28
lcuk_2	echo powersave >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor	23:28
lcuk_2	which is not the default governor option	23:28
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KotCzarny	default is 'null'	23:28
KotCzarny	which is similiar to conservative	23:28
lcuk_2	default is ondemand	23:29
KotCzarny	nope	23:29
qwerty12_N800	Kernel lists null too as def.	23:29
KotCzarny	or maybe you're right	23:29
KotCzarny	though i don't remember setting ondemand	23:29
qwerty12_N800	Although I believe it runs ondemand	23:29
KotCzarny	anyone know if setting keylock is putting device in more aggressive pm or regular?	23:31
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lcuk_2	could some folks with 800s and 810s please just check their scaling_governor setting and report back.	23:32
lcuk_2	cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor	23:32
lcuk_2	use that line ^	23:32
KotCzarny	i know	23:32
KotCzarny	it lists ondemand	23:32
KotCzarny	but when you compile kernel it lists 'null' as default	23:32
lcuk_2	ahh	23:32
KotCzarny	which isn't == 'no gov' but more like 'very conservative'	23:33
\|zeus\|	now it says something about "Setting voltage VMMC"	23:34
\|zeus\|	and then "Shut down VMMC"	23:34
\|zeus\|	=\	23:34
lcuk_2	actually during testing i got the following order (slowest running to fastest): powersave (slowest), ondemand (slow unless stroking), conservative/performance/null (tied same full speed)	23:34
qwerty12_N800	In dmesg?	23:34
KotCzarny	it's powersaving	23:34
\|zeus\|	yep	23:34
qwerty12_N800	Standard kernel?	23:34
KotCzarny	zeus: it's just powersaving	23:35
KotCzarny	everyone has them	23:35
\|zeus\|	yep	23:35
KotCzarny	:)	23:35
* \|zeus\| trying to uderstood is sd reader on new n810 are dead or not		23:35
KotCzarny	do you have original sd card?	23:36
KotCzarny	my n800 came with 128mb card	23:36
lcuk_2	810 comes with a soldered on 2gb	23:36
lcuk_2	and one slot	23:36
qwerty12_N800	Kotczaeny, I dont get those msgs tho but I am usinng custom kernel	23:36
lcuk_2	empty	23:36
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KotCzarny	800 comes with soldered 256 and 128mb minisd + adapter	23:36
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lcuk_2	:O i just realised that i was still on performance	23:40
KotCzarny	:>	23:40
lcuk_2	after setting back to ondemand i reproduce..	23:40
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KotCzarny	'realized'	23:40
KotCzarny	chocolate time, brb	23:41
lcuk_2	yer my test script changes it one way, then changes it back	23:41
* lcuk_2 hmm		23:41
qwerty12_N800	If scaling_governor line is changed; does scaling_min_freq change too?	23:42
KotCzarny	probably not	23:42
qwerty12_N800	Ah, ok, thanks	23:42
qwerty12_N800	I should combine those scripts i use...	23:43
KotCzarny	one day i will make status bar applet that will have them all!	23:43
KotCzarny	:)	23:43
lcuk_2	hmmm, i might have to start doing garbage in my inner loop again - i cant have it doing that	23:43
qwerty12_N800	@KotCz (hope u dont mind me shortening down, osk sux), cool :)	23:44
KotCzarny	:)	23:44
KotCzarny	you can short down to 'kot'	23:45
KotCzarny	:)	23:45
qwerty12_N800	Thanks :)	23:45
lcuk_2	any idea what triggers the governor	23:45
KotCzarny	cpu usage	23:45
lcuk_2	but i am trying to use the cpu at fullspeed	23:46
KotCzarny	then it's probably not enough	23:46
KotCzarny	:)	23:46
KotCzarny	just play some mp3s ;)	23:46
lcuk_2	if i put extra code into the blit loop it forces it over and keeps up	23:46
lcuk_2	but thats just stupid..	23:46
KotCzarny	with gst and mp3task	23:46
KotCzarny	that way you won't eat cpu and set cpu to highest mode	23:46
lcuk_2	i seem to recall thinking this way a while back - i dont want to have to run extra things just to get a loop faster	23:46
lcuk_2	it will eat battery though	23:47
KotCzarny	it's only for testing	23:47
KotCzarny	isn't it?	23:47
KotCzarny	also people can play mp3s while reading	23:47
KotCzarny	right?	23:47
KotCzarny	;)	23:47
KotCzarny	so can you	23:47
lcuk_2	yer but i dont wanna have to say to see it smoothly you must stroke like you have hairy palms or change the governor	23:47
qwerty12_N800	You could try echo 400000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq ; dunno if it would help though.	23:47
lcuk_2	no, im not gonna tweak power saving settings for the whole device	23:48
KotCzarny	lcuk: i don't mind tearing	23:48
lcuk_2	there must be a way to up my own thread priority - i can do it in vb ffs	23:48
lcuk_2	its not tearing thats the issue	23:48
KotCzarny	usefullness is what i need	23:48
KotCzarny	:)	23:48
lcuk_2	its VERY difficult to tear	23:48
lcuk_2	i have to repeat the blit loop about 4 times before i can see tearing	23:48
* \|zeus\| brok miniSD card now :(		23:49
KotCzarny	lol?	23:49
KotCzarny	how?	23:49
lcuk_2	then if i push it a bit more it just lowers the framerate a bit	23:49
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lcuk_2	fysa, are you knocking around ?	23:50
lcuk_2	(when in doubt, pray to the gods)	23:50
qwerty12_N800	lcuk_2: not sure if this is what you are after, but it only seems for bora : http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2007/04/26/maemo-nicer/	23:50
lcuk_2	that might do it - but is there not something within the app itself which i can say (process.priority = high;)	23:52
KotCzarny	yes	23:52
KotCzarny	i think	23:52
KotCzarny	don't remember syntax though	23:53
KotCzarny	man setpriority	23:53
KotCzarny	:)	23:53
lcuk_2	yer im just looking now - ive got the winapi version and finding linux refs	23:53
KotCzarny	but priority is not your problem i think	23:54
KotCzarny	\|> Essential Mix 08-08-2006 - Sven Vath ()	23:55
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lcuk_2	its worth a try, i dont see how when i run a flat out loop and try to go fast it doesnt identify it	23:56
KotCzarny	then you will probably need 'real time' priority	23:56
KotCzarny	:>	23:56
lcuk_2	i know it can handle it properly - i might have to just include the extra code in my blit :(	23:56
lcuk_2	int dummy = (xy+xy); *dummyin=dummy;	23:57
lcuk_2	and bammo - the code runs faster - even though i am actually performing that equation thousands of times	23:57
KotCzarny	lcuk: just open mp3task	23:58
KotCzarny	you don't have to play anything	23:58
KotCzarny	just keep it open	23:58
KotCzarny	that will set cpu to highest mode	23:58

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