IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-02-27

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BugBlueGnutoN810: no I'm using the sip protocol. meaning windows messenger 5.1 which does sip00:27
BugBlueGnutoN810: I'm *not* doing video over msn00:28
BugBluemy guts tell me that that is way more difficult00:28
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GnutoN810ah, ok00:31
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||cwBugBlue: well, sip is just an initiator, how difficult the rest is depends on the protocol actually used00:34
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BugBluecw: h263p for video and ulaw (orf alaw) for audio00:44
BugBluenow I need to code video support for the SL75wlan siemens voip wlan phone00:45
BugBlueand some more crap so I can dialin to mjpeg security cams00:45
BugBluezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz00:45
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cbx33Hey guys01:04
johnxhi01:04
cbx33anyone know if you can get hold of the information from the light sensor on the n81001:04
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johnxyup, there is a light meter app at nitapps.com01:05
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cbx33oh it just cats a file01:11
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cbx33cool01:13
cbx33can you cahgne the brightness01:13
johnxthat gets more tricky01:13
cbx33was thinking of hooking the two together01:13
johnxyou can change the brightness just by echo'ing a number to another file under /sys01:14
cbx33that's what I want01:14
johnx...but then the Nokia program that listens to the light meter will change it back when it feels like it01:14
cbx33the screen brightness?01:14
johnxyes01:14
cbx33oh01:14
Navipah01:14
cbx33I didn't think it changed the screen01:14
cbx33it changes keyboard leds01:15
cbx33In high light conditions, I want my screen brighter01:15
johnxah, I don't have an N810 so this is just AFAIK01:15
cbx33ahh ok01:15
cbx33johnx: you know the name of that file01:15
cbx33?01:15
johnxno, but I can look it up easily :)01:15
cbx33hehe01:16
cbx33oh you may be riht01:16
cbx33http://blog.locationist.net/2008/01/11/n810-and-the-adaptive-screen/01:16
GnutoN810night01:17
johnxcat /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level01:17
cbx33thanks johnx01:18
johnxsure01:18
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cbx33hmmmm01:22
cbx33it does seem to repond to the light01:22
NaviAnyone try out KOrganizer in the Garage yet?01:22
cbx33but it's a little slow01:22
cbx33http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=496 - anyone got any ideas ;)01:22
NaviHaha, lame01:23
cbx33heheh01:23
NaviReminds me, I need to get my N800 into USB host01:23
cbx33Navi: now that's always fun01:23
cbx33anyone know about the risks of usb host?01:24
cbx33as in drawing too much power01:25
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Naviwoo hoo01:28
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johnxcbx33, I don't think it's terribly dangerous to draw too much power. I'm pretty sure the N8x0 just won't deliver the power if the device tries to draw too much01:29
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Navihrm01:30
johnxyou could check threads on internettablettalk.com/forums and see if anyone managed to fry their N8x0 by connecting it to a device that wanted too much01:30
Navinow I only need a USB keyboard to carry around in my backpack, unless there's a bluetooth keyboard that I can happen to get under five bucks :P01:30
* Navi isn't holding out for hope01:30
johnxI'll look for a nice small/cheap usb keyboard this weekend01:31
johnxI think I have a good shot at something reasonable01:32
jotthttp://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3060 hmm i wonder if something like this could easily be modified to serve as an usb power injector..01:32
johnxcould you just use it with a Y-cable?01:33
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Naviuse a powered usb hub :P01:34
johnxac powered or battery powered?01:34
Navieither :P01:34
Navihttp://www.nextag.com/usb-foldable-keyboard/search-html01:34
NaviI'm out01:34
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johnx'later01:35
johnxhopefully I'll find a smaller keyboard this weekend :)01:35
jottare there any usable battery powered usb hubs available?01:35
johnxalso, the battery powered hub I have doesn't provide enough juice01:35
jotti mean using a ac powered hub would be just nuts for mobile applications ;)01:35
johnxwell, I can tell you the one from cyberpower doesn't provide enough juice to run a 1.8" hard drive01:36
SDuensinYou guys see the tiny little 12G hard drive TigerDirect has?  I was wondering if it'd work on the 800.01:36
jotthm yeah thats why i thought of using some usb backup pack :)01:36
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jottand esp. something that can easily be recharged01:37
jottSDuensin: probably with a power injector :P01:37
johnxSDuensin, is it cheaper than a 16GB USB flash stick?01:37
SDuensinhttp://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3528019&CatId=242401:37
SDuensinFigured it's survive rewrites a lot better than flash.01:38
johnxI've killed exactly one SD card from what I assume were too many writes01:38
johnxbecause I used it as the rootfs on my zaurus and swapped heavily to it01:38
johnxfor over 6 months01:38
johnxin any other circumstance I don't think it will be much of a problem01:39
jotti really doubt a portable hdd (with moving parts) lives much longer than a flash medium01:39
SDuensinProbably true.01:39
johnxand even now, I'm not sure that "too many writes" is what killed it01:39
jottjohnx: do some stress tests and find out ;)01:39
johnxsure, donate me a card :P01:39
jotthehe i think i actually have some 128mb card somewhere that could be used .. ;)01:40
johnxnewegg has 16GB usb sticks from $70...01:40
johnxactually, smaller cards will probably die quicker than bigger cards...or at least I would assume so01:41
jottpf still looking for a tiny micro usb - usb a adapter :/01:41
SDuensinI keep looking at the 16G A-DATA cards on NewEgg.  People reporting they work fine in the 800.  32G of space would be sweeeeet.01:41
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By_Turkeywww.MircAlemTR.com    < -   < -  < -     Turkey GirLs  Chat Channel .01:43
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briandSDuensin: if you have some spare cash lying around, just wait a month.  The 32G cards are due out in March...  reported to be ~ $300 retail.01:52
SDuensinEgads.01:52
briand..and, if 32G is sweet, 64 should be even sweeter!01:52
SDuensinI'm having trouble justifying anything more than 2G - not filled that yet!01:52
SDuensin:-)01:52
briandseriously, though.. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 16G card prices drop a bit after the 32G cards come out01:52
SDuensinI think my next additions to the 800 will be a screen protector, a nicer case, and a keyboard.01:53
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johnxanother 2GB - 4GB card would be nice01:53
johnxthat and a keyboard :)01:53
SDuensinNot found a case I like yet and the keyboards I find are either waaay to geeky or large.01:53
johnxwell, I'll go shopping this weekend and hope I find something good01:54
SDuensin:-)01:54
SDuensinEver see the "laser" keyboards?  Super cool, but man, super geeky.  I just can't see whippin' that out in a resturant.01:54
johnxAnd you couldn't do anything with it on anything but a perfectly flat surface01:55
jottSDuensin: hehe you need some geeky glasses with white leds for that too :P01:55
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SDuensinjohnx - Yea.  Surface can't vary more than 2mm.01:55
johnxyeah...that's not gonna be to helpful to me I think01:56
SDuensinBe hard for me to use on the couch, that's for sure.01:56
jottyeah just use the good old foldable keyboards :)01:56
jottstill need to get a bluetooth one..01:56
SDuensinMe too.01:56
johnxhopefully I can find a small keyboard (I know I've seen one around in stores around here)...and then I'll try and figure out a way to attach the N800 to it01:56
johnxmaybe go to a hardware store and find some type of metal bracket and attach it at an angle01:57
SDuensinAny truth to the rumor that Nokia has another model in the works?01:58
briandI'm using an HP case (don't know what it was originally for) that holds the n800 quite nicely.  clips to my belt, and there's a couple spots to slip in 2 extra SD cards, too01:58
johnxSDuensin, well I'd be willing to bet they're working on something, but I have no idea what it is or when it will come out01:58
briandjohnx - if you build or buy an OTG adapter (there's a guy in canada, jolouis, selling them on the forum), you can plug in any USB keyboard and use it.01:59
johnx...as long as it doesn't want too much power01:59
briandright.  but most keyboards will work, as well as snagging photos from your digital camera, etc01:59
johnxand my goal is to find something nice and small and cheap, which makes things a little more difficult02:00
briandheheh.. true.  let me know what you find.  I may be interested as well02:00
johnxI can't see trying to use a full-sized usb keyboard on the train :)02:00
cbx33anyone got to control the LED yet?02:00
jottjohnx: why not use a bluetooth foldable one? :)02:01
cbx33i saw this http://www.google.com/notebook/public/08895672815650307022/BDSTgIgoQ3tW9iP0i02:01
briandcbx33: there's a plugin for Pidgen that uses the LED to flash when you have a new IM02:01
johnxI'm thinking about it. Shipping might be kind of expensive :/02:01
cbx33but the bits at the bottom of he screen don't work02:01
cbx33maybe I have to be root?02:01
jottyou can control the led via dbus..02:01
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cbx33jott: so I thought02:02
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johnxSDuensin, The consensus seems to be that the WiMax tablet will be the next thing released and that will be soonish. Beyond that I'm sure they're working on something, but no one knows what or when it will be except Nokia02:02
jottbut i also wondered how to control it directly02:02
cbx33I'm sure it must be a proc interface02:02
johnxthere's a file in /sys but I don't know what you need to echo to it02:02
jottsure but the mce stuff will might take over..02:02
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cbx33jott: indeed02:02
jott/sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-0/0-003202:02
jotthmm02:02
cbx33yeh I saw that02:03
SDuensinwhoa:  http://store.cellularsurge.com/pcbtkeyboard.html02:03
cbx33would be fun02:03
dphil9000at the moment evdo > wimax02:03
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jotthm $35 sounds reasonable :)02:03
SDuensinSounds damn cheap.02:04
johnxSDuensin, that looks nice.02:04
johnxshipping will be the killer for me02:04
johnxSDuensin, out of stock. :|02:04
cbx33is |tbb| ever around?02:04
johnxhe is from time to time02:04
jottyeah.. here too .. and 35+sh > 22 euro which means customs want extra money :/02:05
cbx33apparently he's played with the leds02:05
SDuensinThen try here:  http://sepharus-store.stores.yahoo.net/pcbtkeyboard.html02:05
SDuensin:-)02:05
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dphil9000the iGo Stowaway KB was nice02:05
jottcbx33: kernel-source-rx-34-2.6.21.0/drivers/i2c/chip/lp5521.c02:05
cbx33* |tbb| is playing with more color led from n810, really funny, combinating diffrent modes02:05
dphil9000until they stopped making it last month02:05
cbx33on 26th of Jan this year02:05
jottcbx33: well if you modify the ini you can get nice effects that can be activated via dbus02:06
jottthats more or less straight forward02:06
cbx33how are they activated via dbus?02:06
jottbut you could not use it as a vu-meter for example02:06
johnxahaha...that has a *random* selection of stuff02:06
cbx33jott: got that command to hand?02:06
jottcbx33: hold on ..yeah..02:06
cbx33jott: no of course02:06
cbx33thanks jott02:06
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jottself.mce = dbus.SystemBus().get_object('com.nokia.mce', '/com/nokia/mce/request')   self.mce.req_led_pattern_activate("PatternError") <- or anything else self.mce.req_led_pattern_deactivate("PatternError")02:07
jottin python02:08
jott(or just map this to the dbus-send .. or what ever you want to use to talk to dbus)02:09
cbx33yeh02:09
cbx33thanks02:09
cbx33right I'm off for the night02:09
cbx33see ya later guys02:09
cbx33;)02:09
jottlater :)02:09
cbx33thanks for all the help jott02:09
jottyou're welcome..02:10
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SDuensinYou people keep costing me money.  :-)02:10
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jotthaha funny defines in the led driver :) #ifdef LED_CONNECTED_WRONG02:13
johnxI still love the kernel config option that goes something like CONFIG_MEM_PEEK_N_POKE :)02:14
^Jsn^my n810 came in about 10 mins ago!  Man this thing is sweet! I didn't realize how thin it really is02:14
jottaaah nice02:14
jottecho direct > /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-0/0-0032/mode02:14
jottecho ff:ff:00 > /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-0/0-0032/color02:14
jottthat's what you get for reading the source code ;)02:15
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^Jsn^i'm guessing that the first thing i need to do is update the Firmware.  Can this be done threw the net on the device, or do i need to download it and install it off of my laptop?02:15
johnxprobably easiest to install it from your laptop02:15
jotthmm purple looks nice :)02:15
johnxjott, very cool02:15
* jott is off to write some nice color effects :)02:16
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jott("run" is the default mode btw)02:16
^Jsn^anyone have a link for updating the firmware and OS for the n810?02:17
johnxdoes your laptop run windows, linux or mac os x?02:17
^Jsn^vista02:17
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* SDuensin would answer, "Yes".02:18
johnx^Jsn^, http://europe.nokia.com/A467815802:18
^Jsn^thanks02:18
johnxsecond link on a google search for update n810 software :)02:18
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^Jsn^I've been reading about linux and the use of repositories, is there one main repository that I should use?  I know that it says to delete all of your current repositories before installing new ones to ensure that you don't have doubles?02:24
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johnxwhere does it say that?02:25
^Jsn^it was in a tutorial that i read at internettabletschool.com02:26
johnxhmm02:26
johnxbut actually the repository situation for the Nokia tablets is a little confusing. There is a somewhat main repository called "Extras" that's included in application manager but not enabled by default02:26
johnxenabling that will get you access to a lot of good software that is relatively stable and known to work well together02:27
^Jsn^how do you enable that?  i'm in application manager now02:28
johnxmenu -> tools -> application catalog...02:28
johnxlook for 'maemo extras', hit edit, uncheck disable02:29
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Xxaxxhello:)02:31
johnxhi Xxaxx02:31
^Jsn^got it, thanks a lot02:31
Xxaxxhow can I turn off virtual keyboard gestures?02:31
johnx^Jsn^, downloads.maemo.org has a good list of software as well and most of it included a "click to install" link which adds any necessary repositories and automatically installs the software02:32
sadamdoes anyone know who's responsible for the maemo.modules file for jhbuild in svn?02:32
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lcukjohnx, i bet there isnt a whats new page for that app list is there02:39
johnxon downloads.maemo.org?02:40
johnxwell there's that little "fresh" section02:41
lcuki just noticed - there is,02:41
lcuki always end up in the lists for a section thinking ive seen half of these02:41
johnxoh wow, the nuvo pearl theme looks really slick02:42
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koshiXxaxx,On n810 you can do so in the control panel text input settings02:54
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Xxaxxwhy only on n810? isn't os's the same?02:55
Xxaxxos200802:55
^Jsn^johnx:  do you have a url to that theme?02:55
johnxit's on downloads.maemo.org02:56
^Jsn^ok02:56
johnxit works fine, but after using it for a bit it doesn't seem completely finished02:56
koshiI don't have any experience with other versions of the n series, so it may be in the same place on other machnices02:56
johnxI already switched back to a different theme...02:56
koshiBut don't 800 series not have a physical keyboard meaning it be a tad hard to type anything?02:57
johnxkoshi, he just wants to turn off the gestures02:57
Xxaxxyeah02:57
Xxaxxonly the gestures02:58
lcukearthquake?02:58
koshiGestures o_O? Hmmh to be honest I only had 810 for a week theres gestures?02:58
lcuktremor rather02:58
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Xxaxxkoshi: check your text input help02:59
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Xxaxxkoshi: Contents > Text input methods > Virtual keyboards03:00
^Jsn^is the star trek and the pearl themes the only ones available to download?03:00
koshiIs that another word for handwriting recognition03:00
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johnx^Jsn^, that might be it for now. There are theme tools out now, so you might start seeing more or you could make your own :)03:01
GeneralAntillesPlankton, too.03:01
Xxaxxkoshi: nope03:01
koshiHmm, I don't have that o_O03:01
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jottwho wants to play with the n8x0 LED? -> http://sse2.net/ledcolor.py  :)03:02
Xxaxxkoshi: you have it on virtual keybooard03:02
Mouseyjott awesome!03:04
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GeneralAntillesDoesn't work on N800.03:06
XxaxxIOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-0/0-0032/mode'03:06
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jottXxaxx: hm03:06
jott:/03:06
jottok03:06
jottthen it's probably in a similar path03:06
jottcd /sys/devices/platform && find . -name mode  ...03:07
jottor has the n800 another led controller?!03:08
GeneralAntillesThey're not the same.03:08
jottdarn..03:08
GeneralAntilles./musb_hdrc/mode03:08
GeneralAntillesN810 is RGB03:08
GeneralAntillesN800 is blue03:08
jottaah i thought the n800 has a rgb one too..03:08
jottok my bad..03:08
jotts/n8x0/n810/03:08
GeneralAntillesThough the code looked a little sparse for N800 support. ;)03:09
* jott can't squeeze red out of the blue led with his hack :/03:09
jottis there some way to control the led on the n800?03:10
GeneralAntillesYes.03:10
dphil9000really?  all i ever say was blue on n81003:10
jottbrightness? or more?03:10
Xxaxxjott: :(03:10
jottdphil9000: run the python script on the device and see if you get more colors :)03:11
dphil9000i'd like to have claws mail configured as the default mail client that checks imap server & flashes the led03:11
GeneralAntilles0-15 levels, jott.03:11
dphil9000and configure gizmo to be the default softphone03:12
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jottGeneralAntilles: ah ok thanks.. well this would not be as spectecular as a more or less full rgb led anyway :)03:12
GeneralAntillesdphil9000, why not use the built-in SIP client instead of Gizmo?03:12
GeneralAntillesMuch lighter-weight03:12
GeneralAntillesintegrates with the system much more nicely, too.03:12
jottand my n810 led hack is *not* for notification purposes..03:12
^Jsn^will the n810 absolutely not go into update mode unless the battery 100% full?03:13
Xxaxxjott: can I post your script on russian n8x0  forum?03:13
jottit could be used as vu meter oder some other music visualization ;)03:13
dphil9000could i use my gizmo dial-in number?03:13
GeneralAntilles^Jsn^, no, it'll gleefully let you update at 1% battery03:13
jottXxaxx: sure..03:13
^Jsn^lol03:13
Xxaxxjott: thx ,)03:13
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GeneralAntillesGizmo is just SIP, dphil9000.03:13
dphil9000true03:13
GeneralAntillesSo the built-in client will work fine with it.03:14
jotti changed N8x0 -> N810 in the comment to make it clear ;)03:14
^Jsn^well it won't go into update mode for me.  I followed the instructions and held the top button while turning it on, but it doesn't give me the white nokia screen with the usb symbol03:14
GeneralAntillesIt's what I use for sending/receiving with my Gizmo account.03:14
GeneralAntillesDid you plug it into the USB port?03:14
^Jsn^yep03:14
GeneralAntillesBefore you tried turning it on?03:14
^Jsn^vista installed the drivers and said that it is good to go03:15
^Jsn^yeah03:15
GeneralAntillesEr, did you hold the Home/Swap button while powering on?03:15
dphil9000sip > proprietary skype03:15
Xxaxxjott: ok:)03:15
^Jsn^yeah the one that looks like 2 cascaded windows03:15
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Xxaxxjott: is colors undocumented n810 feature?03:16
GeneralAntillesNo, Xxaxx.03:16
jottXxaxx: more or less.. yes.. there is a way to set color profiles via mce.ini03:16
jottand there is the kernel source :)03:17
derfGeneralAntilles: Oh yeah, where's the documentation?03:17
unixSnobGeneralAnt - you recommended a screen protector.. I forgot what it was.  I need to order another one.03:17
GeneralAntillesBy "undocumented" I'm assuming he meant "like the N800 FM radio"03:17
GeneralAntillesBoxwave anti-glare.03:17
unixSnobty03:17
jottbut  the color profiles are not directly controllable03:17
jott(just a set of presets)03:17
Xxaxxjott: hehe, ok ,)03:18
jottthat can be extended03:18
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Xxaxxit is interesting03:18
jottso with this it's possible to use it iteractively..03:18
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^Jsn^i figured it out.  U can't have the ac adapter plugged in when u do it03:19
jottactually it's nothing that hidden if you know how the name of the thing (lp5521) is and find the kernel source to read :)03:19
GeneralAntilles^Jsn^, it doesn't actually turn off if you shut it down with the power adaptor plugged in.03:20
unixSnobdamn.. that boxwave flexi-skin is $21 usd03:21
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GeneralAntillesEw03:21
unixSnobi don't think the anti-glare is available or the n80003:21
GeneralAntillesThe silicon skin is a waste of money03:22
GeneralAntillesCan't use the stand or the USB port03:22
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.boxwave.com/products/cleartouch/cleartouch-screen-protector-nokia-n800_2569.htm03:22
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unixSnobBetter.. I have seen some of the sticker like protectors for as low as $2 usd03:23
GeneralAntillesWaste of money, those.03:24
GeneralAntillesGotta replace them every couple weeks.03:24
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unixSnobso the cleartouch one will last longer?03:24
GeneralAntillesIt's a life-of-the-device protector.03:25
unixSnobah, nice03:25
trbsis the calendar beta link on the maemo.org site broken ?03:25
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GeneralAntillesIt should be in extras.03:25
briandif it's a life-of-the-device protector, why would someone buy a 3-pack?03:25
trbsi get blank page when going to the http://maemo.org/community/calendar/omc/ page03:25
GeneralAntillesJust install it from app manager. . . .03:25
unixSnobthat'll really suck if I screw up applying it and get an air bubble03:25
unixSnobbut perhaps worth the rish03:26
GeneralAntillesbriand, for more than one device?03:26
unixSnobs/rish/risk03:26
GeneralAntillesunixSnob, you just take it off and apply it again.03:26
briandGeneralAntilles: so, since you're in town, can I buy one of your two extras from ya?   :)03:26
GeneralAntillesBut bubbles aren't a problem with the Boxwave03:26
GeneralAntillesYou just push them out with the included bubble-pusher.03:26
GeneralAntillesThey're on my other N800 and one of my 770s. :P03:27
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lcukbut didnt you buy a "life of the device" cover when the 770 came out ;)03:27
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lcukwhy would you need anything else :P03:27
GeneralAntillesNo.03:28
briand"...my other N800 and *one* of my 770s"  ??  sheesh.. how many do you own??03:28
GeneralAntillesUsed the 770 for most of its life without a protector.03:28
lcuk770 has a hardtop doesnt it?03:28
GeneralAntilles4, at the moment.03:28
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GeneralAntillesLooking to send one of the 770s off to help with Debian.03:28
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it does.03:28
briandhmm.  then you need to get another 3-pack, and you'll have two extras...  ;)03:28
GeneralAntillesBut stylus usage will scratch it03:29
GeneralAntillesand the anti-glare protectors both improve stylus and finger-feel and greatly improve outdoor visibility.03:29
briandI'd trade you a nifty leather HP belt holster that holds the N800 (and 770) quite well.  (I've got several of 'em)03:29
GeneralAntillesHaha03:29
GeneralAntillesHolster. <_<03:29
lcukbriand, i dont think you will have them, GeneralAntilles goes outside looking like batman, his utility belt has multiple nokias03:30
briandseriously, I've got a pile of 'em03:30
GeneralAntillesIt'd only carry one holster. ;)03:30
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briandand I only own one N800, zero 770s and zero N810s03:30
* johnx pictures GeneralAntilles pulling tablets out of a belt holster and frisbeeing them at thieves03:31
GeneralAntillesCrime deterrent!03:32
johnxcan someone hum the batman theme?03:32
GeneralAntillesbriand, you should order the 3-pack and apply them all to your N800. :P03:32
lcuki imagine him having a mexixan standoff with some iphone holstered macboy03:32
briandhahaha03:32
johnxa 770 to the back of the head would sure ruin your day...03:32
briandoh, and for those who wonder what my idea of "several" is:  in this situation, it's 1103:32
GeneralAntilleslcuk, make it a soap opera and I can have a fallout with my family. :P03:32
lcuklol03:33
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lcukgen, i have read my first scrolly page.03:33
briandI hear that ubiquitous western showdown music playing...03:33
johnxmy wife probably wouldn't go out in public with me if I had gadget in belt holster. I've been told that a vest with pockets is also not allowed :/03:33
lcuk20 fps with a fixed font at 800*480 :)03:34
GeneralAntilleslcuk, you did make sure to use a font that didn't suck, right? :P03:34
GeneralAntillesHaha, johnx.03:34
GeneralAntillesHow about a combat harness?03:34
lcukshhhh i bitmapped lucida console03:34
briandvest with pockets shouldn't be allowed, unless you're at the target range or a favorite fishing hole03:34
GeneralAntillesew, lcuk.03:34
GeneralAntillesEEEEWWWW03:34
lcukno, its perfect - i am used to seeing it scroll03:35
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lcukeverything else will come with time :)  i have sdl_ttf support coming03:35
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johnxbriand, sorry, but a batman belt and a pocket vest are in the same category in my mind03:35
lcukit was enough to prove i could render glyphs03:35
briandjohnx: understood.03:35
GeneralAntillesPerfect: http://www.zahal.org/gear/commando/efodhir1.jpg03:35
GeneralAntillesEhehe03:35
briandbut anyway, it's not a "batman belt", anyway... just a clip-on leather N800 holder (that happens, for some odd reason, to have an HP logo on it!)03:36
lcukwhat about an ankle holster?03:36
lcukfor your smaller devices (n95?)03:36
briandincidentally, it'll also hold a Colt Mustang .380, as I've just discovered03:36
briand(not really concealed, however)03:36
johnxI think I'll stick with pants that have lots of pockets03:37
lcukyes it is.  if its hidden inside a container which doesnt say I HAVE A GUN IN HERE then its pretty conealed03:37
lcukbut i know nothing about guns since im in the uk03:37
briandwell, let's just say that I'm not going to risk my concealed carry permit by using this device to "carry" with...03:38
GeneralAntilles.380?03:38
GeneralAntilless/.380/.38/ you mean. ;)03:38
lcukhmmm, never thought i had an opinion on guns.03:38
* lcuk just found one03:38
briandaka "short 9mm" (old terminology).03:38
^Jsn^does updating the firmware of the n810 also update to the latest maemo, or does maemo have to be updated seperately?03:38
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johnxwhat people call "firmware" in this case is actually the whole OS and all the apps03:38
briand.38 is a different round, for a different pistol (revolver) ---  .380 is a round for a semi-auto pistol03:38
GeneralAntillesRight, right.03:39
lcukupdating firmaware will update the entire OS.  its like reformatting windows03:39
GeneralAntilles.380 is pretty concealable, though.03:39
briandsome are, yes.03:39
Xxaxxjott: how you found that name lp5521?03:39
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GeneralAntillesFor instance: http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/kel_tec/kel_p3at.jpg03:39
briandothers are, if you're a large person that wears loose-fitting clothes03:39
^Jsn^thanks03:39
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unixSnobI thought the UK was rated the most violent city in 200003:40
briandUK is a country, not a city03:40
unixSnobI'd think the brits would know about guns03:40
unixSnoblol03:40
briandtechnically, it's a bunch of countries, really...03:40
lcukcriminals might, but the majority of people haven't seen a real gun (apart from maybe police) let alone fired one.03:41
lcukknife crime is high03:41
briandprecisely why one should carry a gun!03:41
GeneralAntillesBanning one sort of weapon will just result in people using another.03:41
briandsomeone brings a knife to a gunfight, that's his problem...03:42
GeneralAntillesBetter to have a sort of weapon that levels the playing field for everybody.03:42
unixSnobThey've banned tazers in New York03:42
johnxrocket launchers!03:42
GeneralAntillesGranny doesn't stand a chance in a knife fight.03:42
lcukbut i will get arrested if someone comes into my house and i shoot them03:42
GeneralAntillesAh, enlightened Europe.03:42
briandmove over here... in most states, you wouldn't be arrested/detained for that03:42
unixSnobtrue.. but granna can do a gunfight!03:42
lcuki cannot protect my home without risking my own freedom03:42
* lcuk will throw a nokia at him03:43
jottXxaxx: it's in the same path as the mode/color file "cat name" reveals it ..03:43
unixSnobThe uk is a better place to be financially.. if you're in the tech industry03:43
lcukor offer him a cup of tea with a cup i accidentally drop on his head03:43
unixSnobI'm thinking about going there to work03:43
Xxaxxjott: ah, haha, I see03:43
briandtake a gander at their taxing structure, first...  ;)03:44
XxaxxI will check mine03:44
lcukunixSnob, depends where in the country03:44
unixSnobThe tax can't offset the exchange rate.03:44
unixSnobYeah, I realize location matters03:44
lcukhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7266136.stm03:45
unixSnobIn the US, contractors get $75 in DC area, and the same contractor gets $50/hr in some ghosttown03:45
unixSnob(and the $50/hr is the better deal)03:45
brianddefinitely, given the lower cost of living in the ghosttown03:46
Xxaxxjott: hehe only TCM825x I2C driver and TEA5761 FM-Radio03:46
johnxas long as you think it's worth it to live in a ghost town...03:46
* johnx doesn't like ghosts03:46
unixSnobSo the median in the US is ~$60/hr in most cities03:46
briandand, god forbid you live in virginia!  they tax your car every year that you own it.  renewing a registration usually runs hundreds of dollars03:46
unixSnobBut a typical rate in the EU is 60 euros/hr03:47
briandjohnx: i live in the capital of florida, which is (by far!) the smallest "city" in the state03:47
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jottXxaxx: :/ ..hmm yeah probably it's not in i2c.. it probably has some proc/sys entry..03:47
unixSnob60 euros is so much more than 60 usd, I can't imagine COL being high enough to offset that03:48
briandyou'd be surprised03:48
Xxaxxjott: hm ,)03:48
briandi was offered a position at Adobe for a little over twice what I was making at my (then) current job...03:48
unixSnobu screwed up03:49
unixSnobu didn't take it?03:49
jottXxaxx: but it's just 15 brightness levels so it's not that much fun :P03:49
briandbut the COL difference between the santa clara valley in CA vs. Tallahassee, FL would've made that a decrease in salary... by quite a bit03:49
Xxaxxjott: hehe ,)03:49
GeneralAntillesjott, I was excited about those 15 brightness levels and you dashed my dreams to little bits! :(03:49
Xxaxxjott: 15 levels for led?03:50
jottGeneralAntilles: hehe well if it's controllable the interface has to be exposed somewhere :)03:50
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jottGeneralAntilles: send me one of your n800 and i'll find it out :P03:50
briandheheh03:50
unixSnobyeah, that makes a difference.  The santa clara payrates are bad03:50
briandthat, and the rents are outrageous!03:51
jottXxaxx: according to GeneralAntilles yeah..03:51
GeneralAntillesXxaxx, see /etc/mce/mce.ini03:51
briandi had 1400 sqft in tally for $650/mo.  Out there, I could get 600 sqft for $1200/mo03:51
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briand(in a similar neighborhood)03:51
unixSnobThe problem w/ silicon valley is the payrates don't even try to compensate higher COL.  Typical rates there are $65/hr -- which is about what you get in any medium sized city.03:52
unixSnobAt least in DC and NYC, the payrates are a little higher.. ~$7503:52
briandnow, if they were willing to pay me $150K/yr to telecommute... that'd've been a different story altogether...03:53
unixSnobThe west coast employers know they can leverage the better lifestyle, and pay less03:53
unixSnobfat chance, they'd pay less03:54
unixSnobIn fact, they might as well hire indians if telecommuting is an option03:54
briandtrue03:54
briandthus, why i didn't take the offer.  :)03:54
unixSnobOTOH, open source developers can telecommute03:55
unixSnobWe can go to the islands and live very cheaply, while working03:55
unixSnoband that's probably a better deal than the silicon valley folks get!03:56
unixSnob(even though it's volunteer work, at least the expenses don't bury us)03:56
unixSnobwho's with me?  It'll be a Maemo development retreat03:57
Xxaxxjott: btw do you know how can I turn o03:57
Xxaxxjott: btw do you know how can I turn off the gestures?03:57
jottXxaxx: which gestures?!03:58
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briandunixSnob: I'll book the plane tickets the day after I win the Lotto03:58
Xxaxxjott: virtual keyboard gestures03:58
jottXxaxx: sorry.. i have a n810 and do not use a virtual keyboard at all ..03:59
Xxaxxjott: hehe, ok np :)03:59
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^Jsn^I'm trying to install gpe calender but it is telling me that i need libsoup 2.2-8(>=2.2.98)  Does anyone know how to install this missing package?04:03
pupnikfrom command line, as root, i would type: apt-get install libsoup04:04
Xxaxxjott: btw do you think it is possible to use internal 3d abilities?04:04
pupnikor first: apt-cache search libsoup04:04
pupnikin order to see if it is in a repository04:05
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^Jsn^do you have to be in red pill mode to do that?04:05
johnx^Jsn^, red pill / blue pill mode does not affect the command line utilities, only "Application Manager"04:07
johnxin general, I would suggest avoiding red pill mode04:07
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^Jsn^how do i get to the command line utility in root mode?04:08
pupnikhttp://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot/04:08
^Jsn^thanks04:08
pupnikwhat device and OS version do you have?04:08
jottXxaxx: well i suppose it is possible and some people started hacking on it but there are many factors (given alone that the lcd controller is connected with a low bandwidth) and it's not an easy task without nokias help ..04:08
johnx^Jsn^, you should be able to get it through application manager04:09
^Jsn^n810 os200804:09
johnxlet me dig up the link04:09
jott(and that the size of the lcd controller is bigger than powervr can handle)04:09
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jottbut one could most likely increase performance in some areas04:09
lcukbut the lcd can quite nicely display 640*480 borderless fullscreen and it looks amazing and gets 25fps full color04:09
lcukauto stretching using the xv library shows its possible04:10
jottyeah still that's probably an argument why nokia does not put effort in it..04:10
pupnik^Jsn^: on OS2008 i just install the ssh package and ssh root@localhost to log in as root04:10
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fysahttp://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-15573-Sungjut+TangoX+Nano%2C+a+new+Korean+UMPC+with+wireless+phone+and+Touch+screen..html04:10
^Jsn^oh ok04:11
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fysaI love how they stuck a dockable VOIP phone into that space.04:11
johnx^Jsn^, if you'd rather use the GUI go to gronmayer.com/it on the tablet, search for libsoup. Find the Maemo Hackers repository with "Chinook" as the distribution and "click to install"04:11
pupnik^Jsn^: also feedback to the GPE authors might motivate them to resolve the issue so that people don't need to be root04:11
pupniks/authors/packagers/g04:11
infobotpupnik meant: ^Jsn^: also feedback to the GPE packagers might motivate them to resolve the issue so that people don't need to be root04:11
johnxfysa, that's the "Everex Cloudbook" or "Fic" something-or-other they sell at walmart04:12
fysano, this is a new one :)04:12
johnxthe case looks the same04:12
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johnxand they're both a Via...04:12
fysalook at the phone docked into it.04:12
GeneralAntillesWish you could link to stuff on gronmayer.04:12
fysaI see what you mean.04:12
johnxso it has the phone instead of the webcam module...that's pretty much the difference, right?04:12
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johnxthe prototypes they had at some tradeshow showed them with like 5 different interchangeable modules04:13
fysano, you're right.04:13
fysait must be from the same OEM04:13
johnxstill, a cool little machine04:13
johnx:)04:13
lcukcould you plug a nokia into it ;)04:13
fysawould be cooler if the screen could reverse and let you map the 'phone' keys as real keys.04:14
fysa.. and it had a few buttons on the other side ;)04:14
lcukand a fluc capacitor04:15
lcukffs flux04:15
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^Jsn^pupnik:  where does it install the openssh client to?  i don't see it in any of hte menus04:20
^Jsn^the*04:20
GeneralAntillesHaha04:20
GeneralAntillesOpenSSH isn't a GUI application. ;)04:20
Xxaxx:>04:20
^Jsn^well how do you access it04:20
GeneralAntillesssh04:21
Xxaxxvia xterm04:21
^Jsn^ok04:21
johnx^Jsn^, if you're not comfortable with the command line you should just add the repository that I suggested, then all the gpe stuff should install just fine04:21
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johnxif you want to learn more about Linux than you ever wanted to know, then proceed :)04:22
^Jsn^well i'm trying to get some experience with linux04:22
^Jsn^i'm getting a connection refused04:23
johnxyou installed both openssh-server and openssh-client?04:23
unixSnob"if you want to learn more about Linux than you ever wanted to know" <- how is that possible?04:23
^Jsn^no just the client04:24
^Jsn^do i need the server?04:24
johnxif you want to use this method to get "root" access on the device, then yes04:24
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johnxpupnik, even if he follows all these steps he still doesn't have the repository with libsoup04:25
lcukyes, your nokia will be the server.  from a command shell on another computer you connect to the ssh server and login as root04:25
^Jsn^ok04:26
lcuki agree with john, for this specific problem the shell does not help much and there are easier solutions, but if the guy wants to get ssh up and running then so be it :)04:27
lcuki dont know whether i wanna sleep - the house shook loads before :S04:28
unixSnobshook?04:28
unixSnobare you in the UK?04:28
lcukyer earth tremor04:28
lcukyer its hit news04:28
^Jsn^how do you bring up the virtual keyboard?04:29
unixSnobtap on a field04:29
johnxlcuk, craziness, you guys don't get many earthquaks at all do you?04:29
lcukno, thats whats so disconcerting04:29
unixSnobdoes your house meet earthquake standards?04:29
lcukwe have minor movements as the earth settles, but nothing big04:29
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^Jsn^does anyone know how to bring up the virtual keyboard?04:30
johnxin xterm? just tap on the screen04:30
lcukit can withstand an equal amount of wrath from earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, ice berg hits and polar bear attacks.04:30
^Jsn^in the browser04:30
lcukthat figure however is unknown between 0 and 104:30
johnxjust tap in a text field04:30
johnxlcuk, a magnitude 4.7, 10km underground?!04:31
lcuki think 810 is disabled by default isnt it04:31
johnxah, an n81004:31
johnx^Jsn^, it probably only works with the keyboard closed and you might have to turn it on in control panel or something04:31
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lcukjsn, if you cant get it to come up, go into your control panel and poke about looking for settings04:32
* johnx has an n80004:32
lcukyou can adjust quite a lot04:32
^Jsn^wow, this thing has soo many querks04:32
^Jsn^you do have to have the keyboard closed04:32
briand^Jsn^: they're called, lovingly, "features", not quirks.04:32
lcukwhy is that a querk?04:32
johnxnot really a quirk so much as a "Nokia design decision" :)04:33
lcukyou have a sodding thumb keyboard in front of you, why would you want the OSK?04:33
johnxlcuk, I really wouldn't worry about many aftershocks with a quake like that04:33
johnxthat's weak sauce :P04:33
lcukplus, the bottom of screen still has bits onscreen04:33
unixSnobMy employer is sending a ton of people over to the UK to work the eBorders program.. I should tell those folks to ask for hazardous duty pay.04:33
^Jsn^i'm not saying that it's a bad thing04:33
lcuklol04:33
NaviWow04:34
lcukjsn, best querk is: hit your tab key04:34
Naviplaying music + surfing the web = battery drainage04:34
johnxjeez, you guys need to live on the west coast of the US or anywhere in Japan for a while. I've slept through worse...04:34
lcukweb refresh = lots of screen flicker04:34
unixSnobi was in the northridge quake of 9404:35
unixSnobI had wall-sized bookshelves come down on me in the middle of the night04:35
unixSnobMaybe i'll go back to cali.. are we past the point where all the prophets predicted CA would fall in the ocean?04:36
johnxyou need to anchor those things...04:36
lcukim going to move somewhere thats near the top of a small hill but not far away from a stream and live in a ground floor house with a canvass roof and nothing around me to fall on04:36
^Jsn^lcuk:what tab key04:36
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lcukyou were looking for querks04:37
^Jsn^yeah but there isn't a tab key04:37
unixSnoblcuk - and get Germans to build your house.  German built houses are so airtight, that the houses float when there's a flood.04:37
johnxthe quirk is there is no tab key :)04:38
lcukthe hill is flood protection ;)04:38
johnxunixSnob, I was in the San Francisco quake of 89 :)04:38
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unixSnobbut if the hill is overcome, you want your house to be a boat04:39
johnxso why not just live in a boat?04:39
unixSnobwas that any fun?  I wasn't in ca at that time04:39
johnxautomatic earthquake protection too04:39
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unixSnobgood idea!04:39
lcukunless a sink hole opens04:39
unixSnobI've actually been thinking if I end up in CA again, it will be in a houseboat04:39
GeneralAntillesHurricanes are more fun.04:39
johnxI was just a kid then...honestly it didn't really scare me much, and nothing much fell down at my house04:40
unixSnob(for cost, not eq protection)04:40
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unixSnobI gotta buddy that lives in a yaht.. and they don't charge him the mud tax04:40
lcukyou know, im half expecting someone to come out and tell me they were around when godzilla made shore04:41
johnxmy mom was paranoid about earthquakes, so all the book shelves were anchored and even though we our condo was on the third floor it was pretty much a non-event04:41
johnxlcuk, still waiting for that one O_o04:41
unixSnoblol, that's not paranoid, that's CA living04:41
unixSnobalways anchor stuff04:42
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johnxlast time I was in Indiana they had a tornado brought in for me04:42
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johnxit bent a McDonald's sign in half 5 miles away from where I was04:42
unixSnobnice!04:42
unixSnobI'm there now04:42
^Jsn^what is chinook?04:42
unixSnobThey seem to take tornados seriously here04:42
johnxchinook is another name for OS200804:42
NaviThe battery indicator sucks04:43
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johnxbora is OS200704:43
johnxmistral is OS200604:43
NaviA while ago, I only had 1/4 of my battery left04:43
Navinow I have 1/204:43
^Jsn^oh ok04:43
unixSnobperiodic drills at work, yet I haven't seen one yet :(04:43
NaviNo, I didn't charge it.04:43
lcukpower drain occuring earlier04:43
lcukless now?04:43
johnxNavi, if you find a battery indicator on a mobile device that is any good, tell me04:43
GeneralAntillesThe smaller the li-ion, the harder it is to measure its current level accurately.04:44
unixSnoband to make matters worse, OS2008 version number starts with 2007...04:44
johnxif you go from a high power-draw situation to a low-power draw situation it appears to the battery meter that the battery has more voltage now04:44
GeneralAntillesunixSnob, that's the date it was built.04:44
GeneralAntillesThey pretty much can't release any more 2007 builds, so it's not an issue anymore, unixSnob.04:45
^Jsn^what is a good irc app for the n810?04:45
unixSnobMakes sense.. guess they're ahead of the game04:45
Navijohnx, my cell phone04:45
GeneralAntilles^Jsn^, xchat.04:45
unixSnobI'm still waiting for Ada 2005!04:45
johnxNavi, it probably has a pretty consistent power draw04:46
^Jsn^ok04:46
NaviE70 with wifi and bluetooth sporatically throughout the day04:46
Naviyou tell me04:46
Navisporadically*04:47
johnxfair enough04:47
GeneralAntillesI'll guarantee you it doesn't swing as wildly as the tablet, though.04:47
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unixSnobanyone here from brazil?04:47
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* Navi chucks it at GeneralAntilles04:49
* GeneralAntilles catches it and sells it on ebay.04:49
NaviNo!04:49
unixSnobha.. pakistan shut down the countries network to get people off youtube.04:50
unixSnobs/network/networks04:50
johnxdidn't they bring it back up already?04:50
unixSnobprobably04:50
NaviunixSnob, yeah04:51
unixSnobjust amazing how much the pakastani gov hates youtube04:51
NaviI read04:51
NaviYouTube = blasphemy04:51
johnxthat might not be the whole story...supposedly there were videos with claims of tampering with the election or something and "blasphemy on youtube" was a good excuse04:52
johnxdon't remember my sources04:52
unixSnobhey, we would have not seen the don't taze me bro dude if it hadn't been for youtube04:52
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unixSnobI just heard it on www.webbalert.com04:52
johnx*or* the evolution of dance04:53
unixSnobmorgan webb is pretty hot.  nokia should promote the NIT on there04:54
NaviGah04:54
NaviBBC is spamming up my RSS reader04:54
NaviToo many "ZOMG BILLARY N OBAMA SLING MUD LOLOLOLOL" articles.04:55
pupnikITos sound runs natively at 44.1 khz right?04:55
pupnikevening all04:55
unixSnobWhat's all this i hear about Obama supporting open source?04:57
NaviWho cares? He's just appealing to a niche crowd, doesn't really care.04:57
Navis/appealing/trying to appeal/04:57
infobotNavi meant: Who cares? He's just trying to appeal to a niche crowd, doesn't really care.04:57
GeneralAntillesObama sells warm fuzzies.04:58
GeneralAntillesNothing much else as far I can tell.04:58
Naviugh05:01
unixSnobI definately want politicians that support OSS05:01
Naviwhy is that skype icon there when it's not even installed?05:01
NaviI support politicians that support net neutrality05:01
unixSnobIt's aggrivating how much uncle sam spends on windows and other closed source software05:01
GeneralAntillesI want politicians that support the sort of government where things like that don't matter.05:02
unixSnobwell the US as a whole isn't in favor of net neutrality05:02
johnxGeneralAntilles, a post apocalyptic distopia?05:02
GeneralAntillesNet neutrality has lost any meaning for the average person.05:02
GeneralAntillesThey managed to muddy the discussion alarmingly well.05:03
GeneralAntillesGood, bad, upside down?05:03
unixSnobit's US vs. the world05:03
GeneralAntillesWho the hell knows.05:03
NaviWhat does the average person surf? Yahoo!, Facebook, mail.  That's about it eh?05:03
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NaviYouTube, forgot.05:03
johnxand WoW05:04
unixSnobThe lower socioeconomic households use Yahoo, and the higher socioeconomic households use google05:04
NaviLol05:04
Lateraluscan anyone grab OS images from the maemo website? It just repeatedly tells me to input the 12 digit code05:04
LateralusI've tried different devices05:04
Lateralustwo 800's and an 81005:04
johnxmaybe if their youtube videos start showing up slower than molasses they'll start caring about net neutrality05:04
LateralusI get the same for all of them.05:04
* Navi wonders why his money count is in euros05:04
unixSnobThat was mentioned on the last TWiT podcast05:04
Navion skype05:05
LateralusI need the latet OS image for 810 and 800.05:05
GeneralAntillesLateralus, enter the right code on the right page?05:05
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LateralusGeneralAntilles, yes, now, some of these are early devices.05:05
LateralusGeneralAntilles, eg, N00 etc.05:05
GeneralAntillesBe nice if the government didn't regulate telecommunications JUST enough to help maintain monopolies.05:05
unixSnobwhere you from Navi?05:05
NaviUSA05:05
johnxLateralus, it works for me (tm)05:06
Lateralusjohnx, ok, thanks05:06
unixSnobAnd you're getting paid in euros?05:06
NaviNo, my skype credits are in euros05:06
NaviI'd like to be paid in Euros, however. The USD is going down.05:07
unixSnobyes, that's my plan when my current contract ends05:07
unixSnobthe downside is the green card takes 3 months05:08
LateralusGeneralAntilles, it looks like I was on the 810 page when trying the 800s. I got the 800 image05:09
Lateralusdoes anyone have a working 810 mac?05:09
^Jsn^is canola tuning worth the download?05:09
Navicanola tuning?05:09
GeneralAntillesIt downloads album artwork and whatnot.05:10
unixSnobLasteralus- you can download the image w/out mac addy if you use the Windows download tool05:10
^Jsn^yeah it says "python scripts to tune canola"05:10
LateralusunixSnob, I've seen no windows download tool? Have a link?05:10
GeneralAntillesLateralus, Nokia support page.05:11
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LateralusGeneralAntilles, thanks05:11
unixSnobNot off the top of my head.. I recall seeing it somewhere though (and it was called something different)05:11
LateralusunixSnob, thanks05:11
^Jsn^when u install apps on the n810, does it all go into the rom, or can u chose to install them to the built in 2 gig memory card?05:11
k-s^Jsn^: yes, it is05:11
k-s^Jsn^: we put some things there that we cannot add to official release05:12
johnxit goes into the built-in flash (not the 2GB memory card-type thing). Apps can't be installed anywhere else without a bit of hacking around05:12
k-s^Jsn^: or things that we had no time to integrate properly (ie: video thumbnailing)05:12
^Jsn^oh ok05:13
^Jsn^i saw a video of canola that allowed the user to drag the screen with the thumbnails like the ipod touch, is that what the tuneing plugin is for?05:13
k-s^Jsn^: canola thumb just generate the thumbnail05:15
k-sthumb -> tuning05:15
k-s^Jsn^: the view itself is always present on Canola, go to Audio->My music->Album covers05:16
^Jsn^ok05:16
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LateralusThe windows downloader cannot flash the device either, this device is from before they were sold, to flash in linux I have to unpack the bin file and flash the kernel etc individually05:25
GeneralAntillesOuch05:25
LateralusThe device is labeled an "N00"05:25
johnxwow O_o05:25
johnxneat05:25
GeneralAntillesLateralus, search for the cnet article on installing the original N810 firmware on an N80005:26
GeneralAntillesThere's a valid MAC range on there.05:26
GeneralAntillesAnyway, 001d6e9c0000 to 001d6e9cffff05:27
LateralusGeneralAntilles, got it, thanks!05:28
Naviheh05:28
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GeneralAntillesNow it's in the #maemo logs.05:28
Navihax05:28
Navibusted!05:28
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unixSnobi forgot this stuff was getting logged and posted public.. kinda encourages me to keep the topic strictly business05:35
GeneralAntillesMeh, there's enough volume that it doesn't really matter.05:36
NaviYou're an op?05:36
GeneralAntillesOne doesn't just browse 3 years of logging.05:36
unixSnobop?05:36
GeneralAntillesYour face in an op.05:36
Navino u05:36
johnxthere's a search for the logs, it's not like someone is going to sit down and read them...05:37
NaviAnyways, anyone want to trade me an iPhone for my N800?05:37
Navijohnx, there ARE losers that read them05:37
johnxalready giving up? :P05:37
johnxright, but losers don't count05:37
NaviThe N800 sucks, the iPhone is vastly better than the N80005:37
* Navi troll05:38
unixSnobThe iPhone is better (for resale)05:39
Navithe iPhone's screen is like 2x bigger than the N800's05:39
Naviand it's processor is like a Core 2 Duo05:39
johnxalso, it can fly05:39
Navimuch better than an N80005:39
unixSnobyou can't be serious, is it?05:39
Naviyes, it can fly05:40
Naviyou just have to use three hands to do the right gesture05:40
johnxyou've heard it here first people05:40
derfMost things can, if you throw them hard enough.05:40
pupnikTry Rubybox! - the brand-new dosbox frontend by solmumaha.  http://pupnik.de/dosbox.html05:40
Navidosbox frontend?05:41
Navilame >_>05:41
derf"With enough thurst, anything will fly." --NASA05:41
derf*thrust05:41
unixSnobwhat is this emoticon: >_> ?  I see that a lot lately05:42
unixSnobrolling eyes?05:42
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dookdookhow do you ctl-c from the x terminal?  i hit the ctrl button and then i put in c, but it doesn't appear to be control c'ing (i'm trying to cancel a command line invocation)?05:49
NaviThat's the way you do it05:49
Naviaccept it works05:50
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dookdookit works for you navi?05:51
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GeneralAntillesunixSnob, wikipedia says "sneer"05:52
GeneralAntillesBut that's not how I use it.05:52
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briandapparently, he uses it to exit xchat....05:54
Navis/accept/except/05:54
infobotNavi meant: except it works05:54
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Navidookdook, yes05:54
dookdookhmm...wonder what i'm doing wrong05:54
NaviI don't think he uses xchat05:54
GeneralAntillesHmm?05:54
briands/xchat/IRC client/05:54
infobotbriand meant: apparently, he uses it to exit IRC client....05:54
dookdooknavi, do you mind trying this for me?  go into x terminal and type "grep ' (return)"05:55
dookdooknow try and ctr-c to escape...05:55
Navidookdook, I do it all the time.05:55
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dookdooknavi, you have the nokia n800?05:56
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pupnikHows your learning SDL programming project going Navi?06:00
johnxdookdook, if I "grep '" from xterm ctrl-c wouldn't get me out on any linux (or Unix)06:01
johnxyou'd need to ctrl-d06:01
dookdookjohnx, thanks.  from my xterm i can ctrl-c out of it...that was my confusion06:01
johnxah...nevermind...just tested that on ubuntu06:02
johnxhmm...my memory must be going...probably means it's time for lunch06:02
dookdooki'm really sorry for all the noob question, but i have a few more.  can you add a shortcut to xterm to allow for ctl-c/d?  i can't seem to add a ctrl in the window that pops up for the kb shortcut thing...06:03
johnxtype <ctrl>06:03
johnxI think06:03
Navidookdook, yes06:03
* johnx tries it06:03
Navipupnik, zero progress06:03
dookdooknavi, is it in fact <ctrl>?06:03
johnxyeah, I have one that sends a linefeed, <ctrl>m06:03
johnxvery handy06:03
Navilol06:03
johnxI should probably make a shortcut for yes as well06:04
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GeneralAntillesSomebody remind me what the value is for pipe.06:06
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lcddbar06:08
GeneralAntillesHehe, Bar didn't work. Thanks.06:08
lcddworksforme<tm>06:09
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GeneralAntilleslcdd, with a capital B.06:14
dookdookjohnx, thanks06:16
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pupnikMy trick to improve frozen pizzas is teh r0x.  Just smear olive oil on the bottom.06:28
johnxgah! I just ate the last frozen pizza in the freezer the other day06:29
* johnx will have to buy more06:29
Navi>_>06:30
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Proteouslol06:30
ProteousI like to buy the simple ones and put my own toppings on them06:31
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pupnikLuckily the generic 'ja' brand in germany is excellent - better IMO than any of the commercial brands. And at 67 cents a pizza, it can qualify as 'unemployment food'.06:40
NaviXD06:41
pupnikYeah Proteous me too06:41
* johnx makes lunch06:41
pupnikAnd pizza is never offtopic :P06:41
Naviof course not06:41
Navidevelopers always have to have pizza06:42
shackanjesus, 67cents ?!06:42
NaviMan, looking at these USB keyboards almost warrants just buying an iGo Ultra Slim06:43
NaviLike, da hell is this: http://www.nextag.com/Adesso-Rackmount-White-PS-57027350/prices-html06:43
johnxyeah, I know what you mean, but I think a shop around here had something decent06:43
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Naviand this: http://www.nextag.com/MATIAS-Corporation-FK101-Half-573789962/prices-html06:44
ImMelodyTotal newbie, but is there a list of hildon desk widgets and what they do?06:44
pupnikhey navi you saw i was working on fixing fceu NES emulator sound?   You might like this.  Here's how it was on Day 2 of 'fixing'... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iw6D4GF2bs06:46
Navihttp://shop3.outpost.com/%7Bf5oPnLbczgbb3yyi336Jwg**.node2%7D/product/2885934;jsessionid=f5oPnLbczgbb3yyi336Jwg**.node2?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG06:46
Navinice fix06:47
Navi:D06:47
pupnikbrawaawanangwrrawangngngNGNWGNAWWWNGnghan!06:48
pupniki liked it06:48
NaviThe NES emulator is a bit slow, overall.06:48
pupnikyep!06:48
pupnikmy new one is running 60 fps on a N770 :P06:48
Naviwoo06:49
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NaviWhen are we going to see teh release?06:49
johnxImMelody, you mean the home applets or are you talking about gtk widgets?06:50
Navihome applets are total widget ripoffs06:50
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johnxthe concept is pretty old06:51
ImMelodygtk widgets, I think06:51
NaviInteresting06:51
johnxI don't know if you can call any of them ripoffs anymore06:51
ImMelodyFor the status bar06:51
NaviIs it just me, or did those five people join at the same time?06:51
Navijohnx, I was kiddin06:51
ImMelodyThey did join at the exact same time.06:51
johnxNavi, saw it hear too. I didn't know if you were joking :P06:51
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NaviI can see at least two of those five are the same people06:52
johnxaaah..."statusbar applets" is what you're looking for06:52
* Navi thinks they're bots06:52
* ImMelody agress06:52
* ImMelody agrees*06:52
johnxtotally inconspicuous06:52
johnxthey creep in like ninjas06:52
Navifive bots joined another channel at exactly the same time06:53
ImMelodyI'm attempting something way over my head and assumed there would be hildondesktop/hildon-something for both network connection and bluetooth connection06:53
ImMelodybut I guess I was wrong :D06:53
Naviwell06:54
johnxImMelody, you're looking for a combined network/bluetooth statusbar applet?06:54
ImMelodyno, I'm trying to make one with little to no programming experience :D06:54
Navilol06:54
ImMelodyOf course, with little documentation on both, I'm probably going to fail, but it doesn't hurt to try.06:55
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johnxfor statusbar source you could look at statusbar cpu or rm_you's advanced backlight06:56
johnxunfortunately, Nokia hasn't released the source to their own applets06:57
johnxas far as I know06:57
Naviwhere can I find xchat for ze N800?06:57
johnxgoogle :) xchat chinook06:58
johnxfirst result06:58
ImMelodyI'm already looking at the advanced backlight one.. but he has some includes that are specific to both the backlight and volume control.. Like hildon-controlbar.h and -hvolumebar.h.. I'm looking for the similar for bluetooth and network...06:58
ImMelodybut when I look at the hildon list, nothing is especially popping out at me as such..06:58
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pupnikgronmayer doesn't list ruby repositories for OS2007?07:00
GeneralAntillesImMelody, I dunno that anybody outside of Nokia knows exactly how their work their connection applets.07:02
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ImMelodyyeah.. and I'm going to give up for tonight and pick up here tomorrow night, I guess...07:04
dragornImMelody: as you might have learned already, nokia doesn't release the source for those07:04
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ImMelodyYeah.. I was hoping for a lucky shot in the dark to be honest..07:05
dragornImMelody: for some reason, volume, brightness, and network control applets are considered important enough to be proprietary07:05
dragornImMelody: you'll have to write your own completely from scratch, I can tell you it'll require dbus and libconic07:05
dragornbeyond that I don't think it's documented much.  You *might* be able to get a libconic list, but mostly you call their libs and let them do the connections07:06
ImMelodyI'm taking the advanced backlight applet and the status bar clock to try and figure out what the hell I'm doing.07:06
ImMelodyI know I've found some bluetooth files at least on my tablet when browsing around... so that's where I'm planning on starting.07:07
GeneralAntillesHow many states does the Bluetooth applet have?07:07
GeneralAntillesOn/idle/off?07:07
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ImMelodyyeah07:08
ImMelodyon is blue, idle is white and off disappears.. though, I was planning on making it greyed07:08
GeneralAntillesPlanning on doing your own icon?07:09
johnxgreyed or a red / would be nice07:09
ImMelodyyeah07:09
dragornHell I'd like it to not take away the icon when bt is turned off07:09
ImMelodythe graphics is the one thing I'm NOT worried about, lol07:09
dragornmakes turning it on non-intuitive07:09
GeneralAntillesHaving the icon show the level would be nice, too, if it's not too much of a resource hog.07:10
Naviwhere can I find xchat for ze N800?07:11
Navioops07:11
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johnxNavi fails it :P07:12
Navi800No I don't.07:12
johnxah the joy of an onscreen keyboard07:13
GeneralAntilles5 levels of wifi (disconnected-full), 3 levels of Bluetooth (on, off, idle), 2 for phone (data call, packet data), offline.07:14
GeneralAntillesSo, 22 icons?07:14
Navionly 22?07:14
GeneralAntillesI'm thinking color the dot at the bottom of the normal wifi icon to indicate Bluetooth.07:15
ImMelodythere are two sets of wifi07:15
GeneralAntilles2307:15
GeneralAntilleser, 2507:15
GeneralAntillesad-hoc07:15
GeneralAntillesBut there's no levels for ad-hoc.07:15
ImMelodypublic access points come up with the dot on top07:15
GeneralAntilless/public access points/ad-hoc/07:16
johnxxp machines pretending to be access points07:16
GeneralAntillesThat, mostly.07:16
ImMelodyok.. so 25 icons..07:16
GeneralAntillesYou could also color the whole icon to indicate Bluetooth status, which would save you from having to rework the phone icons.07:17
ImMelodymaybe white for no bluetooth, green for idle and blue for connected07:19
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ImMelodyjust to keep up with the existing color scheme07:20
GeneralAntillesHmm, most of the time it'll be idling, having the applet green most of the time doesn't suit my tastes. :P07:20
GeneralAntillesKinda breaks the look, too.07:20
johnxwhite for idle, red slash for off07:20
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ImMelodyI don't really want to do a red slash over the top of the network connection07:22
johnxjust an idea :)07:22
ImMelodyThanks... Maybe a faded red slash would work 25% opacity?07:22
johnxIt really doesn't matter to me07:23
johnxI just throw out ideas...I'm not particularly attached to them07:23
ImMelodywell, it made me think of the fact that it would look too much like the regular network connection if it didn't have anything on it07:23
ImMelodyAnyways.. It's past midnight, and I gotta get the kiddo off to school in the morning.07:24
ImMelodyThanks for the input and ideas guys!07:24
johnxsure07:25
johnxg'night07:25
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GeneralAntillesStatusbar applet icons are fun.07:35
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pupnikFailed_to_Load_Buttons IMG_LoadGIF_RW: JPEG loading error08:08
Navi800lol08:08
Navi800:D08:08
* pupnik sighs08:09
kajeDoes anyone know what the supported video resolution is for the N810? I'm trying to watch an AVI and it says "Video resolution not supported"08:09
pupnikwith what video playing program?08:09
Navi800max is 800x48008:10
johnxand 800x480 won't exactly play well08:10
Navi800video will be scaled down if bigger on standard players08:10
johnxbetween 400x240 and 5XX x 3XX is the sweet spot08:10
johnxalso, you might be interested in mplayer08:11
NaviI use 528x480 ^^08:11
NaviI need to tone it down, frame drops a tad bit08:11
kajewhatever the default media player is... I tried watching it on mplayer, but it skips... must be too much for the processor...?08:11
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NaviNot the processor's fault08:11
johnxthat or too much data for the limited bandwidth between the CPU and LCD controller08:11
Naviit's the LCD controller08:12
Navibus08:12
johnxNavi, it could be either08:12
kajeoh, interesting08:12
GeneralAntillesIt's ALL the bus when you really get down to it.08:12
johnxabove 640x480 you're pushing the CPU pretty hard as well08:12
GeneralAntillesBecause we'd have hardware decoding if we didn't have to use a 3rd party controller. :P08:12
Naviwoo08:12
* Navi crosses his fingers08:13
Navicome on OMAP308:13
GeneralAntillesThe N900 is either going to be really badass or really disappointing.08:17
johnxI'm glad we already moved to EABI and that they got their ABI/API breakage in when they did08:18
NaviIf it can at least play a normal video without scaling down, I'd be happy.08:18
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GeneralAntillesBe nice if the 3440 turns out to be light enough on the power to use.08:20
Navi:P08:20
NaviI doubt that the N900 will use the 3440s anyways that the N900 will use the08:20
Navi...08:20
NaviI doubt that the N900 will use the 3440s anyways08:21
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GeneralAntillesHa08:21
GeneralAntillesIt'll be the 343008:21
GeneralAntillesWhich is plenty good08:21
GeneralAntillesJust not quite as badass.08:21
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NaviYeah08:42
Navimaybe :P08:42
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pupnikyeah, how do you know what it will use?08:50
NaviWe don't know what it'll use, we can speculate.08:52
Navis/,/ but/08:52
infobotNavi meant: We don't know what it'll use but we can speculate.08:52
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GeneralAntillesThere are a fairly limited number of options to choose from.08:53
johnxis any other Nokia product using that yet?08:53
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, there isn't anything in production with OMAP3 yet.08:53
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Navitoday's woot is a 2GB SD card for 7 bucks08:53
Navibuy now!08:53
johnxthat's almost a good deal08:53
GeneralAntillesLogically speaking, there's no way Nokia is gonna do an architecture change08:53
NaviARM is a must for a portable device08:54
GeneralAntillesTheir partnership basically means that they wont use anything but TI08:54
johnxthese days, there's nothing else besides x86 and ARM08:54
GeneralAntillesand we've hit the end of the line with OMAP2.08:54
johnxand they have no experience with x8608:54
Navix86 is too power consuming.08:54
johnxit is now08:54
GeneralAntillesSo we're left with OMAP3.08:54
johnxthey might stick with the OMAP2 for longer than you think though08:55
GeneralAntillesWe're due for a generational change.08:55
Navisell the same hardware yet again?08:55
Navihow faggy, N900's hardware has to be bumped up.08:55
GeneralAntillesIf they dump another OMAP2 on us, I'm going elsewhere. <_<08:55
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johnxwhere? pandora? umpc?08:55
NaviIntel MID.08:56
Naviif applicable08:56
johnxI am interested in seeing the performance intel manages to get out of their new low-power chips08:56
GeneralAntillesPandora is the only one I know that's got OMAP3.08:56
johnxarstechnica is thinking they might not be much faster than ARM clock-for-clock08:56
GeneralAntillesjohnx, probably nowhere.08:57
NaviThe current/older x86 line consume more power and perform horribly.08:57
Navis/x86/ULV x86/08:57
infobotNavi meant: The current/older ULV x86 line consume more power and perform horribly.08:57
johnxyeah, I know. But counting Intel out is something that comes back to bite you :)08:58
Navis/x86 consume/ULV x86 consumes/08:58
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johnxAMD did that once...08:58
Navipah08:58
NaviToo bad they didn't work more on xscale08:58
Navithey could of taken that somewhere.08:58
johnxyeah, they were taking it the same direction as the P4: high clock speeds and long pipelines08:59
GeneralAntillesBe nice if we could kill x86 dead and move on to a real architecture.08:59
Navijohnx, after that, they could take it where Intel took the company, C2D line.08:59
johnxanyways, I'm out of here for a couple minutes...08:59
Navis/the company/x86/09:00
infobotNavi meant: johnx, after that, they could take it where Intel took x86, C2D line.09:00
GeneralAntillesYou just love that bot, don't you? :P09:00
NaviI make lots of mistakes while typing, the bot gives me an excuse to be lazy09:00
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pupnikgah where's a good primer on sdl 8-bit palettes09:05
NaviO_o09:05
Naviare you drawing buttons?09:05
Navi'cuz those buttons are dirt ugly09:05
Navifceu, that is09:05
Naviblack rectangles with white borders is much more sexier09:06
pupnikyou can draw any buttons you want, but you have to use a default set of like 8 or 16 colors at the moment09:06
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Navis/is/are/09:06
infobotNavi meant: black rectangles with white borders are much more sexier09:06
pupnikyeah you can do simple buttons just white borders09:07
pupnikls /usr/share/fceu/09:07
pupnik/usr/share/fceu/a-button.bmp       /usr/share/fceu/save-button.bmp09:07
pupniketc09:07
* Navi forgot he owned an N800 for a second there09:07
NaviI was about to say: Heh, I don't have an N800 anyways :P09:08
NaviEven though it's right in front of me09:08
pupniksave them as 8-bit bmp, no RLE compression09:08
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GeneralAntillesGo to bed, Navi.09:10
NaviGeneralAntilles, you're one to talk.09:10
GeneralAntilles:P09:10
GeneralAntillesI'm not forgetting I own things. :D09:10
NaviOh yeah? At least I'm not GeneralAntilles.09:11
GeneralAntillesHey! Listen! 'least I'm not Navi.09:12
czrat least I'm not czr.09:12
* czr is busy being someone else, just woke up.09:12
* GeneralAntilles claims czr as one of his alternate personalities.09:13
NaviPimlico looks like a good PIM solution09:13
Navieven does syncing and crap09:13
* czr claims GeneralAntilles as his primary personality09:13
czrhah!09:13
* czr watches GA busyloop09:13
Naviczr, you know you're going to die in the first movie.09:13
* GeneralAntilles implodes.09:13
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NaviI wouldn't want to be GeneralAntilles.09:14
czrNavi, I knew that.09:14
czrNavi, that's why I'm telling de niro that I'm busy whenever he calls.09:14
GeneralAntillesHa09:15
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Navi^_^09:15
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NaviYou have to buy a license to use maps?09:30
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jeddy3Navi, maps software, no09:31
GeneralAntillesLicense is for turn-by-turn.09:32
jeddy3excactly09:32
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melmothtalking about that, is there some free (beer&speech) projects to get city and country road graph ?09:33
Naviturn-by-turn?09:33
johnxopenstreetmap?09:33
pupnikunique311: around?09:35
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unique311yep09:39
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jkuopenstreetmap is "graphic-only", not really graph09:48
jkucan't handle turning restrictions as an example09:49
johnxI didn't know what was meant by graph09:51
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jkuit's a shame, because it's so close... there's alot of stuff you could if the data was good09:52
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jkulot of stuff you could _do_09:53
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johnxcan't you get their data and use it any way you wanted to?09:53
jkusure, but the data is not computer-readable, so to speak09:54
jkuas in: you can't optimize routes in osm data09:55
johnxthey don't have their gpx files available?09:55
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jkuthat has nothing to do with the map data really09:56
johnxah, I'm probably out of my depth with this stuff...09:56
johnxanyways, need to reboot my desktop into a new kernel09:56
jkuthe street data is basically hand drawn on top of gps points and maybe satellite photos09:57
* johnx will be back (if this works)09:57
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GeneralAntillesIt doesn't matter10:12
GeneralAntillesThe only reason they tell you to leave it out is so that it actually shuts down.10:12
nuuneoihi all10:13
nuuneoiDoes anyone here know about N810 device program?10:13
pupnikyes10:14
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nuuneoithanks :)10:14
nuuneoiI have some problem about discount code10:14
nuuneoiI tried to put my discount code in "Gift/Reward Code"10:15
nuuneoibut only thing I got was "The gift certificate has no balance"10:15
nuuneoiDid I do something wrong?10:15
nuuneoifor more information, I tried to buy it via nokiausa.com10:16
pupnikdid you use the second code they sent you?10:17
nuuneoifirst and second are the same10:17
InteliWaspyay it's done!10:17
pupnikhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11618&highlight=discount+codes  dunno check the thread for discussion nuuneoi10:17
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nuuneoireally thanks pupnik10:18
nuuneoiactually I browsed through internettablettalk already10:18
nuuneoibut look like no one have same problem as me T_T10:18
nuuneoithank you anyway, pupnik10:19
nuuneoilook like I can't do anything10:20
nuuneoiT_T10:20
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melmothgstreamer question: what i cannot connect the output of wavparse to an autoaudiodetectsink10:44
melmothi suppose there must be some stuff to plug in betwenn the 2. any idea ?10:44
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pupnikdunno10:55
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pupnikmelmoth: what's the lowest cpu cost, closest-to-native audio sink?  seems like gstreamer is the answer, yes?10:55
melmothi have no clue at all10:56
melmothsound is completly new to me10:56
melmothand i suck at it, big style :)10:56
melmothcurrently, i use mplayer to play wav file generated on the fly, but i guess it s no good, nor for the cpu load, not for memory usage, not for memory card life expectancy10:57
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pupnikwith gst-tools you can play a sound file (mp3, wav) from a system call11:00
* melmoth is googling it11:01
melmoththe root of my problem is: to generate french text to speak on the fly11:01
melmothso i use espeak, who just does not seem to make sound when i launch it, but it can generate wav on stdout11:02
melmothfirst problem i have is to play wave file with a more regular gstreamer chain than 'playbin'.11:02
pupnikmaybe the thing to do is fix espeak11:03
melmothmhhh. may be11:03
pupnikif you just want a program to play wav files quickly i might have one that works11:04
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ynezzHoho, my N810 just arrived. And I don't have to pay anything to the customs! :D11:14
GnutoN810hi11:15
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melmothpupnik: do you have an url ?11:20
melmothi have a solution right now (mplayer), but it s a crappy one.11:20
melmothi need to play with gstreamer again before making a cleaner solution11:21
melmothright now, it s too weird for me, need to read more and play more before writing my own stuff11:21
pupnikgst-launch-0.10 filesrc location=whatever.wav ! wavparse ! dsppcmsink11:23
pupnikor something11:23
pupniksee http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2006-12-16.log.html and other logs about gst-launch11:23
JaffaMorning, all11:23
melmothor the gst-launch worsk11:26
melmothwhat i dont get is if i make the same chain in python, then it says wavparser cannot be plugged in my audiosink11:26
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:27
melmothso i m wondering if gst-launch may not add some filter of some sort automagically in the chain11:27
AD-N770melmoth: playbin?11:28
melmothit works with playbin, but then playbin looks like a black box to me11:28
AD-N770melmoth: extend your question, I just arrived now11:29
melmothAD-N770: final goal is to use espeak to make french text to speech11:30
melmothi can generate wav on the fly as espeak stdout11:30
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melmothi m looking to play this wavfile with python. Right now, i wirte it on a file, and play it with mplayer.11:31
melmothI have 2 problems: 1) wich audiosink to plug the output of the wavparse plugin to.11:31
melmoth2) how to feedb the stdout of epseak to the gstreamer chain instead of using a file source11:32
AD-N770for 1) your probably need audioconvert ! dsppcmsink11:32
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melmothAD-N770: on my laptop now, so using alsasink instead of dsppcmsink. I ll try audioconvert,but if i need it, why si the following making sound ? :11:33
melmothgst-launch-0.10 filesrc location = "/home/melmoth/deng.wav"  ! wavparse ! alsasink11:33
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AD-N770melmoth: sorry, I thought that I was on maemo11:34
AD-N770melmoth: audioconvert ! alsasink11:34
melmothYou are on maemo, when i test stuff on laptop i use alsasink, and i switch to dsppcmsink on the table (but i feel more conveninet to test stuff on the lappy)11:35
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AD-N770melmoth: I'm agree it's easier to do on the laptop :)11:36
AD-N770melmoth: you can use also autoaudiosink11:36
AD-N770melmoth: which will be the default audio sink of the platform11:37
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melmothAD-N770: http://pastebin.com/d19e676a7 gives me:    wavparser.link(convert)11:39
melmothgst.LinkError: failed to link wav-parser with audio-convert11:39
AD-N770let me check11:39
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hrwmorning11:42
AD-N770melmoth: gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location=t.wav ! wavparse ! audioconvert ! alsasink11:42
AD-N770melmoth: this work for me11:42
melmothwith gst-launch it works11:42
melmotheven without the audioconvert11:42
melmoth gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location = "/home/melmoth/deng.wav"  ! wavparse ! alsasink11:43
melmoththis maks bing11:43
AD-N770melmoth: I suggest you to add audioconvert to be sure that the wav format matches the required one by the sink11:44
AD-N770melmoth: this is what playbin does11:44
AD-N770melmoth: http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/chapter-helloworld.html#section-helloworld11:45
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AD-N770melmoth: srcpads from wavparse are Availability: Sometimes11:46
melmothAD-N770: this is where i m lost, i try to compare the src capability of wavparse and the sink capability of alsasink11:46
melmothyep, gst-inspect show me "sometimes" too. I wonder whta does it mean :=)11:47
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AD-N770melmoth: I think that you have two different problems, you can't link all the elements directly in your code11:47
AD-N770melmoth: you need to wait until the srcpad for wavparse is created11:47
AD-N770melmoth: and then link the audioconvert ! alsasink pair11:48
melmothok, that is a good hint.11:48
AD-N770melmoth: the sample code in the previous url does that11:48
melmothok thanks, i ll study this url closely then.11:49
AD-N770melmoth: read the comment: /* link together - note that we cannot link the parser and11:49
AD-N770   * decoder yet, becuse the parser uses dynamic pads. For that,11:49
AD-N770   * we set a pad-added signal handler. */11:49
melmothok, i need to get signaled when a new pad is in the pipe, and only link the new pad in the callback, so m i sure it existe when the link occurs.11:51
melmothor so i guess11:51
AD-N770melmoth: yes11:51
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dookdookdoes anyone have a small project as a suggestion for me to program?  something to get my feet wet but not completely useless?12:01
AD-N770melmoth: look at fdsrc element to push data to your pipeline from espeak stdout12:01
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AD-N770melmoth: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Speech_synthesis12:03
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melmothHmmm12:08
melmothespeak --stdout "Ello world." | gst-launch-0.10 fdsrc fd=0 ! wavparse ! alsasink12:08
melmoththis works.12:08
melmothi m sure i did not manage to make it work this week end :)12:09
melmothi wonder what i did wrong, now it just..works12:09
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AD-N770dookdook: do you want to write arm assembly optimizations?12:20
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dookdookad-n770, i guess i could be persuaded...haven't done assembly in a couple of years.  might be fun.  what'd you have in mind?12:35
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AD-N770dookdook: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libmpeg2/idct_armv5te.c?root=mplayer&view=markup12:37
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AD-N770dookdook: I wrote this sometime ago to speed up mpeg2 decoding on arm5e (n770)12:38
AD-N770dookbook: I know that could be rewritten for arm6/n8x0 using the new media instructions12:38
AD-N770dookdook: but I don't find time to write it :)12:39
AD-N770dookdook: I'm waiting for a baby in next two weeks12:40
dookdookcongrats.12:40
dookdookwhat kind of state is this in?12:40
AD-N770dookdook: it works and provided an improvement of about 10% on the nokia 77012:40
dookdookthe n800 uses a slightly different chip?  so this wouldn't work for the n800?12:41
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AD-N770dookdook: It also works on the n80012:41
dookdookah, but there are more improvements to be made?12:41
AD-N770dookdook: arm6 includes all features of arm5e12:41
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AD-N770dookdook: arm6 include SMLAD/SMLSD instructions that performs the two multiplies and add/substract on 16bits operands that are perfect for the butterflies12:44
AD-N770dookdook: also the cliping can be done with only one instruction SSAT/USAT instead of several instructions in a conditional12:46
dookdooki've never done mpeg decoding before.  can you give me some pointers to tutorials/web sites (or just give me an overview)?  and do you have a list of the instruction set for the arm6?12:47
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AD-N770dookdook: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp, I use to have the Quick Reference Card printed at hand12:49
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AD-N770dookdook: http://vsr.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/~jan/MPEG/HTML/idct_discussion/Index.html12:56
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AD-N770dookdook: http://www.bretl.com/mpeghtml/MPEGindex.htm13:00
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dookdookso the nokia is arm 1136?13:05
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johnxit's whatever an OMAP2420 is :)13:07
AD-N770dookdook: yes, for n8x013:07
dookdooksorry, i can't seem to find the quick reference for the armv6 instruction set...13:08
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AD-N770dookdook: is a generic arm quick reference card13:09
AD-N770I'm searching it13:09
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dookdookthink i found it.  ARC0001_UAL.pdf?13:10
AD-N770dookdook: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.qrc0001l/index.html13:11
dookdookawsome, thanks...just to make sure, i'm lookin at the arm1136jf-s and arm1136j-s technical reference?13:14
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koshiHmhm, thought OMAP was based on arm1013:15
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AD-N770dookdook: the quick reference is good for me, the document is ARM QRC 0001L13:18
dookdookgot that one too13:20
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AD-N770dookdook: wow, the code is that I told you is currently written13:20
AD-N770dookdook: http://svn.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg/trunk/libavcodec/armv4l/simple_idct_armv6.S?view=markup13:20
AD-N770dookdook: you could just merge it to mplayer13:20
hugolpHi, anyone using spa3102 to do VOIP with the N800?13:21
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hugolpIm trying to use the SIP beta of OS2008 and it just works for incoming calls to the N800. When I try to dial with the N800 it doesnt work13:22
hugolpother sip softphones are working so it has to be a problem of the N800 SIP stack13:22
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AD-N770dookdook: it's not exactly the same that I see on libmpeg2 but it's close to it13:24
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dookdookad-n770, what do you mean already written?  meaning the optimizations you were talking about are already in ffmpeg or a non-optimized dct is encoded into ffmpeg (for armv6) and i could just use the optimizations from the mpeg2dec and put them into the ffmpeg source?13:25
AD-N770dookdook: in the ffmpeg there's an idct written in armv6 that you can use as sample to write the libmpeg2 one13:25
AD-N770dookdook: for the maemo mplayer13:26
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AD-N770dookdook: the ffmpeg version is optimized using the tricks that I said before, it's not exactly the same IDCT but it's closer to the one that is used in mplayer/libmpeg213:27
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AD-N770dookdook: if you go ahead on this optimization, I've some more ideas to speedup the mpeg2 decoding on the n8x013:34
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dookdookok, let me get my bearings...13:34
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ssvbAD-N770: it also makes sense using ffmpeg lowres decoding for mpeg2 (DVD resolution videos)14:12
AD-N770ssvb: is ffmpeg lowres decoding doing downscale at compressed domain?14:13
AD-N770ssvb: like cacluate IDCT 8x8 on a whole macroblock using only part of it and using motion vectors halved14:15
ssvbAD-N770: yes, it uses 4x4 idct and tweaks for motion compensation to use it with lower resolution14:15
AD-N770ssvb: nice, I would like have it on libmpeg2 :)14:15
ssvbAD-N770: why?14:16
AD-N770ssvb: this was the idea that I had some time ago14:16
AD-N770ssvb: and there's a gstreamer element that is written on top of libmpeg214:16
ssvbAD-N770: there should be also gstreamer element written on top of ffmpeg14:17
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AD-N770ssvb: yes, but the libmpeg2 is lighter14:17
ssvblibmpeg2 is GPL licensed, so that probably makes it harder to use in maemo stack with lots of binary components14:17
AD-N770ssvb: I would like to use it to play streams from my dreambox sat receiver and libmpeg2 would be also enough14:19
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ssvbAD-N770: that's interesting, I'm also researching this idea :)14:20
Khertansomeone have already send packages to extras ?14:20
ssvbAD-N770: what network bandwidth is required for dreambox?14:20
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melmothAD-N770: I should have read the olpc page better , there is a link (http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/4002) to a bug that is most probably the cause of my problems redirecting stdout.14:22
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Khertanwho choose the "pearl" on maemo.org/downloads ?14:22
melmothso, i still have to write stuff to a file for now (this is the workaround used on olpc too), but at least i do not have to launch mplayer anymore14:22
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melmothKhertan: i did14:22
Khertanyour choice i s based on what ?14:23
AD-N770ssvb: I think that dreambox just resend the TS coming from the sat so it will depend on the channel received and the bandwidth used by it14:23
melmothi meant, i did push stuff on extras14:23
melmothi did not took the pearl14:23
Khertan:)14:23
Khertanhum ... i ve some problem trying to send package with scp from the tablet ... my authentification is always refuse14:23
Khertanas i ve entered my ssh-rsa key i don't understand why ...14:24
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melmothoh, yeah, i forgot you are not using dput.14:24
Khertanyes :)14:24
melmothKhertan: what about using a debian or ubuntu just for this purpose ?14:24
melmothin a vmware or in a xen vm ?14:24
XATRIXhi....can i install linux on 810 tablet ? i mean gentoo ?14:24
XATRIXis this possible ?14:24
Khertanthe purpose is to be able to upload from the tablet :)14:24
ssvbAD-N770: well, I would like to know the numbers, wlan driver will most likely kill all the performance14:24
AD-N770melmoth: do you know if espeak output can be managed directly?  you could use appsrc to inject the data to the gstreamer pipeline14:24
sp3000khertan: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/introducing_niels_breet.html perhaps, though I wouldn't know the respective timelines14:24
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melmothAD-N770: i do not know what do you mean by 'managed directly', i had a look in espeak sources, but i dont get it (c++)14:25
ssvbAD-N770: You can also check this thread on ITT where lowres decoding is mentioned: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1698614:25
melmothi will have a look at what can be done with appsrc14:25
pupnik_it's amazing how well dithering works at 225 dpi14:26
melmothbut i think it will not work (the problem in espeak seems to be it says teh wav file as a 0 size in the header when generated on the fly)14:26
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pupnik_hi ssvb.  i have a new project running at 60 fps :)  needs vsync eventually.  maybe when it's ready for release you might want to look at it - the tearing is annoying :)14:27
AD-N770ssvb: in my attempt with vlc and the 770 I was only being able to decode 3 fps at full res14:27
pupnik_http://pupnik.de/pupnikNES.jpg14:27
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AD-N770ssvb: I would like try it again with gstreamer/libmpeg2 doing lowres decoding and using dspmp3sink for the audio14:28
johnxpupnik_, that's hot!14:28
AD-N770ssvb: and usign xv for rendering/colorspace conversion14:28
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pupnik_:) want to do the sound backend johnx ?14:29
johnxahaha...sorry, I'm not your man for that14:29
pupnik_nobody is14:29
AD-N770ssvb: that's why I would like to have an arm6 idct on libmpeg2 first14:29
ssvbAD-N770: dspmp3sink is bad for performance in OS2008, it reduces clock frequency from 400MHz to 330MHz14:29
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pupnik_ooh ty for that info14:30
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ssvbpupnik_: what resolution is it using?14:30
pupnik_of course if you need mp3, playing back with cpu will probably hurt more than dropping from 400 to 300 mhz14:30
AD-N770ssvb: then also try using libmad :)14:30
pupnik_ssvb approx 256x240 for the game window (pixel doubled)14:31
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XATRIXplease advice me how can i purshase Nokia 810 via internet shop ?14:31
pupnik_depends on clipping options14:31
XATRIXwhere can i buy it ?14:31
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pupnik_in .ru?  dunno14:32
pupnik_take a vacation to new york :)14:32
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ssvbAD-N770: mplayer is using libmad in OS200814:38
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eichihello, is there a way to use the extern SD card with ext2 or 3?15:07
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XATRIXplease tell me where can i buy N810 ?15:10
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XATRIXany idea ?15:10
Zero_Doggnokia's online shop?15:10
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XATRIXZero_Dogg> how much does it cost ?15:12
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lcukdunno, depends on country15:13
lcukgo look on nokia site15:13
ddaviesHi.  I have a Nokia 770 and want to be able to play ogg files.  I see an ogg package, but don't know which year to download or how to run it on the 770.15:13
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melmothddavies: i think it depends wich os version are you using15:15
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ddaviesmelmoth: how do I find the OS version?15:17
melmothi guess settings/control pannel/about this product15:18
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XATRIXZero_Dogg, lcuk > can i purchase N810 in a web-shop? somewhere in Europe ? in get it posted to me ?15:19
XATRIXplease advice me some shops ?15:19
melmoththe look for "ogg" in the matching download category: http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ (or OS2007 or OS2006)15:19
ddaviesah: version is 3.2005.51-1315:20
pupnikhttp://shop.nokia.de/nokia-de/default.aspx  XATRIX there is where I got mine15:20
melmothis it OS2006,OS2007 or OS2008 ?15:20
melmothhmm, most probably OS200615:21
ddaviesYeah, I guess I'll try OS2006, then.15:21
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XATRIXpupnik> ohh....i don't know Deutch15:23
XATRIX:(15:23
ddaviesoh, but there doesn't seem to be an ogg for OS2006.  I think I'll flash OS2008 and then install ogg.  Does that sound reasonable?15:24
pupnikYou should check with russian customs also XATRIX - it could be expensive to ship15:24
pupnikXATRIX: i don't know of a good answer. if you must pay customs/duties on it, then possibly ordering from the USA will be cheapest.15:25
ddavieswell, thanks and bye for now!15:27
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XATRIXpupnik> i'm currently live in ukraine...and i can purchase N810 only for 550$ !  i guess it would have lower cost in other country...15:31
XATRIXand shipping ? is it really expensive to ship with DHL delivery system ?15:31
johnxyou could try to buy one on ebay15:32
aquatixXATRIX: you could try finding someone you trust in the US, have it ship to him her [from amazon.com], and then to you15:32
T0b0trasXATRIX: buy N800, its cheaper :)15:32
aquatixN810 is abou $410 now iir15:32
aquatix*iirc15:32
pupnikit's about $550 in germany15:33
pupnikor more15:33
aquatixUS $ is really cheap ;)15:33
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pupnikeurope has a lot of socialist government costs added to everything15:34
aquatixheheh15:35
* aquatix knows15:35
aquatixi'm from the netherlands15:35
aquatixit wasn't even available here till recently15:35
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XATRIXhm15:44
XATRIXwhat can you say about http://www.superetrader.co.uk/nokia-n810-internet-tablet-p-2974.html15:44
XATRIX~276 $15:45
aquatix£276.1315:45
aquatixmind the pound sign15:45
aquatixthat's pound sterling15:46
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XATRIXoh..15:46
aquatixso, that's 1.5x that in euro's15:46
aquatixi think15:46
XATRIXit's not good :(15:47
dookdookprobably more like 2x15:47
derf1.32x15:47
derf2x would be US$.15:47
dookdookoh, sorry...yes, absolutely true.  (i'm american)15:48
aquatixdookdook: yeah, US$ is taking a nose dive :/15:48
XATRIXNokia N800 = 529 $ here15:48
XATRIXit's goddamned very high price15:49
aquatixhttp://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet/dp/B000Y4AH3C/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1204120143&sr=8-115:49
aquatix391.10 US$15:49
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XATRIXwow15:49
XATRIXthat is very nice15:50
aquatixbut you'll need to get it through somewhere who lives in the US15:50
aquatixas they don't ship to europe i think15:50
XATRIX:(((15:50
XATRIXeverywhere is it's own problem15:51
* aquatix got it that way though15:51
XATRIXi have noone known in usa15:52
* aquatix only through IRC :P15:52
XATRIX:)15:53
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XATRIXeh....it seems to me i would buy N770(used) "from hands"....200$ :(((15:55
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aquatixXATRIX: better buy a n80015:56
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XATRIXanyway, is it possible to install Gentoo Linux on 770 ?15:56
johnxmaybe, you'd be the first one to try it I think15:56
XATRIXaquatix> i know...but it too expensive here in Ukraine :(15:56
XATRIXwait a sec15:57
johnxyou should really find a way to get an N800 or N81015:57
johnxthe 770 isn't worth it at $20015:57
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XATRIXplease take a look here ?15:59
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XATRIXhttp://www.linux.org.ru/gallery/2496397.png15:59
XATRIXis it true ? :)15:59
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johnxthat you can install KDE? yes15:59
XATRIXNokia 770 XFCE theme - Debian-GTK16:00
BTobotrasWhy not?16:00
XATRIXbut there's it's own OS200716:00
XATRIXhow can i install other on it ?16:00
XATRIXother WM16:00
johnxyou just find instructions on the Internet or learn to do it yourself16:01
BTobotrasXATRIX: OS200x is just Linux kernel and linux infrastructure. Install whatever you like.16:01
* aquatix rather likes Hildon and such though16:01
XATRIXWOW :)16:01
XATRIXeven compiz ? :)16:01
johnxno 3D acceleration...16:02
johnxprobably not enough memory16:02
XATRIXaah :(16:02
* aquatix saw compiz on an Eee16:02
aquatixrather impressive16:02
XATRIXsomeone told me that he was running Windows XP on 770 :)16:02
BTobotrasAnd goal of tablet is not exactly "burn the battery in 30mins by dancing bells'n'whistles"16:02
johnxthe person who told you it can run XP is probably joking16:03
XATRIXtake a look winxp16:04
maddlermorning all16:04
XATRIXhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1nS9kOtA7A16:04
XATRIXmaybe i understand something wrong....16:04
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johnxI think that is rdesktop or vnc16:04
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GeneralAntillesIt's rdesktop.16:06
XATRIXare you sure ?16:07
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BTobotrasAbsolutely. Windows do not run on ARM CPU.16:08
XATRIXso...i can youse rdesktop soft on my future 770 ? :))))16:08
XATRIXTHATS GREAT!16:08
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johnxrdesktop can just *connect* to a computer running windows, and display the windows desktop on the 77016:08
johnxXATRIX, you should definitely try to get an N800 instead of a 77016:09
johnxmake some friends in the US or UK :)16:09
shackanof course, neither the 770 or the n800 will never ever run xp16:09
XATRIXjohnx> why do you thing it would be much better to get N800 instead of 770 ? what are the main differences ?16:10
felipecXATRIX: it's supported?16:11
XATRIXsupported what ?16:11
johnxit has twice as much RAM, it's CPU is about 1.5x as fast, and Nokia (and other people) still release new software for it16:11
XATRIXsorry for my english...i'm not native16:11
johnxsupported = Nokia still release software updates16:12
XATRIXjohnx> so...software that designed for 800 wouldn't run on 770 ?16:12
aquatixXATRIX: indeed16:12
XATRIXjohnx> what software updates? if it uses linux ,(not own nokia os)16:13
aquatixit doesn't matter if you buy the n800 or the n810, but the n770 is a lot slower, and nokia does not make updates for it anymore16:13
johnxthe kernel is Linux, but Nokia releases a lot of custom software for it16:13
pupnikgah, using vi commands on ITT forum posts16:13
aquatixpupnik: :)16:14
aquatixn770 basically was a prototype i guess :)16:14
XATRIXbut if i can install almost all linux apps.....it wouldn't be need to use nokia update at all....would it ?16:14
pupniki love my 770.  it's a tank.16:15
aquatixthat's true16:15
aquatixXATRIX: erm, well, you can't just install a linux app16:15
aquatixit has to be adapted for maemo16:15
johnxyou don't need to, but there is a lot of nice Nokia software16:15
johnxXATRIX, it can require a lot of knowledge about Linux and quite a bit of effort to make just any Linux program run16:16
XATRIXfor example i can't use midnight commander from the sources ?16:16
Juhazand more importantly, lot of nice non-Nokia software that is no longer maintained for OS2006, unless you want to do EVERYTHING yourself, it's lot easier to be using something most other packagers still work on.16:16
aquatixmc would be possible i guess16:16
johnxyou would have to compile it yourself if no one else has released a version compiled for the Nokia tablet16:16
BTobotrasNokia-N800-50-2:~# apt-cache search midnight16:17
GeneralAntillesN800 is a LOT faster than the 770.16:17
BTobotrasmc - midnight commander - a powerful file manager16:17
johnxand cross-compiling (compiling for the tablet, on a desktop computer) is a lot harder than a regular compile16:17
BTobotrasGeneralAntilles: you mean 770 is EVEN MORE SLOW?! :)16:17
BTobotrasjohnx: I wouldn't say so16:17
XATRIXso...i know that gentoo-linux kernel supports ARM arch.....so i possibly can run it on 770 ? and mannually compile soft for it ?16:17
ssvbpupnik: i love my 770 too, it's more handy than n800 in my opinion. and they both are order of magnitude slower than desktop PCs :)16:17
* aquatix loves his n81016:18
XATRIXBTobotras> wow :)16:18
aquatixand his bluetooth iGo keyboard16:18
pupnikssvb and 770 can now do NES emulation at 60 fps :)16:18
GeneralAntillesXATRIX, the bluetooth and wifi drivers are closed source.16:18
XATRIXGeneralAntilles> i know...but i have no money for it in ukraine.....it costs here 550$16:18
johnxXATRIX, the N800 and N810 are two different things16:19
johnxthe N810 is still $400+ in the US, and the N800 is $200 in the US16:19
XATRIXGeneralAntilles> emm...there's a soft called "ndiswrapper" i'm using it with my lappy,  it can run win drivers on linux box16:19
johnxXATRIX, there *are* no windows drivers for the wireless chip in the N80016:20
aquatixjohnx: n810 is 391 at amazon.com :)16:20
XATRIXjohnx> in ukraine you can only find N770 USED for 200$ :)16:20
onionXATRIX & johnx: and there is no ARM windows...16:20
aquatixand the n810 is quite a bit smaller than the n80016:20
aquatixand i like the keyboard and gps16:20
johnxonion, thanks for clearing that up :P16:20
XATRIXwhat wifi chip nokia uses ?16:20
johnxa custom one from connexant16:21
johnxI think it's called the cx3110x16:21
XATRIXcould you give me a full name of it ?16:21
johnxbut it doesn't matter because ndiswrapper won't work...16:21
johnxanyways, all it means is you're stuck with Nokia's kernel, you can still use a distribution, but it will take sooo long to compile all the software you need16:22
johnxand you couldn't even find a memory card big enough to hold the source code you need16:22
johnxXATRIX, make a friend in the US, get them to buy you an N800 for $200 and send it to you, or find an ebay seller with international shipping16:22
XATRIXhm....i heard that gentoo linux could be in 6MB or les16:23
XATRIX*les16:23
ssvbXATRIX: 770 does not support memory cards above 2GB, and 64MB RAM is a bit too small for native compilation (gentoo is about native compilation, right?)16:23
johnxbut it takes space to compile16:23
aquatixebay is expensive btw16:23
johnxaquatix, any suggestions for where he can buy it and get it shipped to the Ukraine?16:24
onionjohnx: nfs16:24
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XATRIXConexant Products16:24
XATRIXCX53121 — Single-Chip 802.11a/b/g with SPI Interface.16:24
XATRIXIn this article, they say Conexant Systems supports Linux.16:24
XATRIXonion> nfs ?16:25
johnxthat's not the right chipset...16:25
johnxand conexant does support Linux with a closed source driver16:25
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onionXATRIX: build on a nfs mount16:25
aquatixjohnx: well, through a `friend' in the US, ordering it at amazon.com16:25
aquatixeasiest way i think16:26
* aquatix did it that way16:26
* johnx agrees16:26
ssvbXATRIX: you can find wlan driver here: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cx3110x16:26
onionor perhaps using an AoE "disk", might be faster(?)16:26
ssvbXATRIX: open source part of it at least16:27
dookdooki'm a little confused how to use this scratchbox and sdk environment.  i've downloaded scratchbox, xephyr and the sdk.  i run scratchbox, and it gives me a prompt CHINOOK_ARMEL, whereas in the tutorials its all x86...whats going on?16:27
XATRIXok...i'll try to make some friend in us16:27
XATRIXbut if i failed....i have to buy 770...16:27
XATRIXi have no other choise16:28
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johnxtry *really hard* to get an N800 or N81016:28
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ssvbXATRIX: also beware of customs and other formalities, which take lots of time and money (at least here in Belarus)16:28
XATRIXanyway my first car was BMW 323i  1981 :)))16:28
aquatixah yes, let the US guy send it to you as gift :)16:29
XATRIX:)16:29
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ynezzgift could be also charged16:29
pupnikI had a 81 323i too.  Loved it.16:29
XATRIXssvb> i was a customs officer last year :))16:29
aquatixtrue, but it's slightly less likely16:29
ynezzif the custom thinks it's to valuable16:29
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ynezzs/to/too16:29
aquatixynezz: don't put the contents explicitely on the box ;)16:30
ynezzI didn't "Consumer electronic $60"16:30
ynezz:)16:30
onionXATRIX: where are you located?16:30
ynezzpaid nothing just Amazon16:30
XATRIXonion> Ukraine/Crimea/Yalta16:31
XATRIXBlack see16:31
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XATRIX*sea16:31
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ynezzthere's no forwarding service available in Ukraine?16:32
ynezzI've used one forwarding company to send my N810 from US to Czechia16:32
ssvbXATRIX: 770 may be a good choice, but only if you can compile software for it yourself16:32
ssvbXATRIX: but WSOD is another factor to consider...16:33
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XATRIXWSOD ?16:33
johnxit's a hardware problems with some 770s called the "white screen of death"16:34
XATRIXohhh16:34
ssvbXATRIX: google "Nokia 770 WSOD"16:34
Juhazget used one and WSOD is a non-issue, besides, 800 had display problems too, even if they weren't quite that serious.16:34
johnxJuhaz, why is it a non-issue with a used 770?16:34
Juhazbecause it would've happened already if it were about to.16:35
pupniki've seen several wsod's (display controller went all goofy) and after a battery pullout it recovered16:36
XATRIXn800 has FM tuner right? and 770 has no one ?16:36
pupnikyes16:36
onionI had my 770 go bootlooping if the battery goes dead.. and then it's reflashing time16:36
johnx|zauruspupnik, well there are software causes and hardware causes...16:36
* aquatix is gone16:36
GeneralAntillesonion, you should've turned off the watchdog instead.16:37
pupnikjohnx|zaurus: well this was clearly a controller problem, not software drawing goofy pixels.  what the root cause was, i don't know.16:37
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onionGeneralAntilles: does not help16:37
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johnx|zauruspupnik, scary16:38
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onionGeneralAntilles: as it won't even boot up to charge mode16:38
johnx|zaurusthough I've had my zaurus go whitescreen from high battery draw from a wifi cf card16:38
johnx|zaurusanyways16:39
johnx|zaurusgood night all16:40
* johnx|zaurus sleeps16:40
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XATRIXanyway i could listen to the radio via 3G network :)16:41
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onionXATRIX: expansys is pretty cheap, they might ship to you(?)16:41
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ynezzhere it's as twice as the price of it in US16:42
XATRIXonion> who can ship to me it ?16:43
onionXATRIX: expansys16:44
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XATRIXemm....have you a www link on em ?16:45
johnxexpansys.com16:45
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kpelhello16:47
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Navi_How do I set where to download maps to in maemo mapper?17:03
melmothi usually start do downlad at a really high zoom17:03
melmoththen go whereever i want17:03
melmoth(or use the ste location to gps fetaure you there is one)17:03
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Navi_I ment17:03
Navi_Where to store the maps17:04
Navi_like the SD card.17:04
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melmothmap/manage maps ?17:04
melmothnay17:04
MoRpHeUzNavi_: Menu> Maps > Manage repositories17:04
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melmothmap/manage repository17:04
Navi_thank you17:04
MoRpHeUzand then I think it puts the images in the same place it puts the db file17:05
MoRpHeUzso, change "Cache DB" option17:05
Navi_segfaulted >_>17:05
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Navi_had a corrupted db in there, all good now17:07
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melmothbah, moi j ai eu mon dernier contact avec l ulp en 95.17:07
melmothoups17:07
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Khertanlol melmoth17:27
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melmothi m always confusing channel with irssi17:30
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GnutoN810melmoth, use xchat17:45
Navi_tch17:45
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Navi_melmoth: stay with irssi, but look at the name of the buffer you're typing in :P17:46
GnutoN810mmmm17:46
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melmothi ll stay with irssi, the whole point of it is to be able to have my irc client in a screen session, on a machine always up.17:49
melmothso i can connect to it from my laptop, or the tablet if'i m far away from my own desktop.17:49
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zoranmelmoth, so you have to continue the same session17:50
sp3000/load proxy ftw17:50
melmothscreen is easier, plus it works for other stuff than irc.17:51
zoranjust "screen -r"17:51
melmothit wors for...everything actually17:51
melmothrx17:51
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pupnikwoohoo goodbye for loop hello memcpy17:56
derfDoesn't gcc translate those automatically?17:56
pupnikoh :/17:56
pupnikwell I can profile it17:56
derfI usually just dump asm and inspect it.17:57
derfIf you really want to know what your compiler is doing.17:57
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* pupnik is jealous18:00
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derfIf you compile with -S -g, the output is quite readable, even if you don't have much asm experience.18:04
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pupnikdoes -S -g give me a .S file i can tweak and then compile?18:05
derf.s file, yes.18:05
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derfWell, it'll give you whatever you put after -o, but you should put something that ends in .s18:05
Spakman_Alterego: are you able to send me either an svndump or even a tarball of the ruby-maemo C code, please? I'd love to start understanding it.18:06
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AlteregoSpakman_, I would but my internet connection at home is screwy and I'm in a cafe on my tablet now :)18:10
AlteregoI'll get you it this weekend.18:11
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ssvbpupnik: I wouldn't tweak .S file, it would become unmaintainable very soon, treat it as just an intermediate temporary file (which it actually is)18:11
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ssvbas for the loop, everything depends on its size18:12
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Spakman_Alterego: OK, thanks a lot. Should I just pester you on IRC about it?18:13
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pupnikMost of the things I find are higher level.  For e.g. i have a buffer copy consuming 4% of CPU, but in principle i am copying once when I don't need to.  So instead of tweaking that i should eliminate it.18:16
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AlteregoSpakman_ probably best, I've got a heavy rest of the week. So best wait 'til Saturday and I'll get maemo.rubyx.co.uk back up.18:17
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pupnikBut to do that i will need to bypass an sdl call18:18
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Spakman_Alterego: okay-dokey, good luck with it all.18:20
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pupnikhttp://pastebin.ca/920766  ssvb derf in case you're curious, there's the opreport18:20
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pupnikfirst column is cpu, second cache misses18:21
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ssvbso looks like this RefreshLine_normal needs to be optimized18:23
ssvbprobably making good use of cache prefetch instructions18:23
pupnikthe cpu core is asm, so i think because it has no symbols it gets lumped in with no-vmlinux18:23
pupnikthird line is the NES PPU (pixel processing unit) which is written in C18:23
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pupnikwell i can't do that, that's the optimized gp2x version18:25
pupnikeventually i'll look into what mplayer is doing18:25
pupnikbut if you ever find time to play with newvox, i could learn from that more easily18:25
pupniksame situation: 8-bit sdl18:26
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ssvbpupnik: 8-bit to 16-bit conversion can be optimized, at least on 770 it was important to write 32-bit values to the output buffer instead of a pair of 16-bit values18:27
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jottpupnik: you should consider installing sdl debug symbols / non stripped version :)18:31
pupnikok18:31
jottit's much more verbose with it (to see the sdl bottlnecks.. for pingus e.g. it revealed it uses most of the time in converting/blitting 8bpp->16bpp  )18:33
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pupnikjott is there anything you want to share re: pingus?18:36
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ssvbjott: well, if improving this 8bpp->16bpp can help pingus, we can give it a try18:37
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jotthmm yeah.. i thought about natively using 12 or 16bpp.. but pingus relies on the 8bpp for alpha mask information so this approach is a bit more complicated.. :)18:39
jottbut optimizing sdl core stuff would really be nice..18:39
jottas all sdl applications would potentially benefit18:39
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jott(i think pinugs even went 8bpp->32bpp->16bpp afair ;-)18:40
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pupnikjott: did you try pingus on a 770?18:40
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jottno just on my n810..18:41
jottit's quite playable with music disabled..18:41
ssvbjott: optimizing sdl (replacing it on the device) can be PITA18:41
jottand vfp brought a huge boost..18:41
ssvbjott: but it should be possible to have an optimized version that links statically with the projects that need it18:42
jottyeah or just offer it as a replacement..18:42
pupniki'm already using jott's hacked sdl for dosbox18:42
pupnikbut only if device=n81018:43
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pupnikah removing throttle gives 96-105 fps. forgot that was in there :)18:44
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jottunfortunately those 8 bpp -> n bpp conversions can't be optimized *that* much..18:44
Spakman_bye folks18:44
pupnikcu Spakman_18:44
ssvbpupnik, jott: if you remind me it when I get home, I can try to make assembly optimized 8bpp->16bpp conversion patch for SDL, it should be quite easy18:45
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jottyeah i suppose18:45
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jottbasically just a table lookup :)18:45
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ssvbjott: by the way, is SDL compiled in thumb mode on the device?18:45
jotthmm good question.. mine is not :)18:46
ssvbjott: not quite that (I suspect SDL already does table lookup), but it needs to be unrolled so that there are no load latencies, also data should be combined and written into memory using STM instruction, experimenting with PLD (cache prefetch) may also help18:47
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jotthow much improvement do you expect? (sdl currently uses just a simple while loop with fixed loopup table afair)18:49
ssvboverall, I suspect that the performance can be at least doubled over C version18:49
jotthmm this would be really nice18:49
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jpt9hey18:51
jpt9I found a quite nice bitmap font that I want to use on my n770 (hacker edition).18:52
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jpt9i can get it in .fon (windows), .pcf.gz, .pcf.Z, and .bdf formats.18:52
jpt9is there any way I can use it on my Nokia?18:52
pupnikhi jpt9 beats me18:53
tripolohi18:54
tripoloexist kismet for nokia 770 hacker edition?18:54
jottssvb: http://pastebin.ca/920801 something like this could really be optimized with arm asm..18:55
megabyte405tripolo: yes, the one binary that's out there should work on all itos verions18:55
jottbut some have much more potential i think..18:56
tripolowhere is the repository?18:56
tripolois the kismet of OS 2006?18:56
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megabyte405jpt9: probably not.  those are bitmap formats.  everything nowadays uses truetype or opentype fonts (vector/scalable)18:58
jpt9i just found a bdf2ttf utility...18:58
jpt9except it needs some file that specifies conversion data..18:58
jpt9and all the documentation is in japanese.18:58
ssvbjott: most likely yes, though DISEMBLE_RGB and ASSEMBLE_RGBA macros are the most interesting here18:58
jottssvb: sure but those are most likely slow when done seperately ;)18:59
jottyiek!19:00
jotthttp://pastebin.ca/920811 nuts :P19:00
jottthis can be like 10 times as fast ;)19:00
jott(a switch per pixel?)19:01
ssvbjott: LOL19:01
ssvbswitch should be moved outside of all loops19:01
jottso true19:01
ssvbis it SDL code?19:01
pupnikwhy would bpp change from pixel-to-pixel?19:01
jottssvb: yeah.. SDL_blit.[c|h]19:02
jottpupnik: it makes the code maintainable but not fast ;)19:02
ssvbjott: is it really used?19:02
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pupnikSDL_BlitSurface(BlitBuf,&srect,screen,&drect)  this is used a lot19:02
ssvbmaybe that's just some reference implelemtation and some better code is used in real programs?19:02
jottwell given that pingus spend ~30% in blitNtoN i would assume yes ;)19:03
pupnikwhile I'm dreaming... two pages @ 320x240 and a vsync timed pageflip would be nice19:05
jottit has to be verified (that exaclty this code is used)19:05
jottbut it does not seem that unlikely..19:05
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BTobotrasIs 7mbit normal speed for n800's wifi? I'd expect more19:09
ssvbpupnik: if an upgraded SDL lib project takes off the ground, that's not so unrealistic :)19:09
GeneralAntillesYes, BTobotras.19:09
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BTobotrasGeneralAntilles: ok19:09
ssvbBTobotras: it is normal with the current wlan driver, but the hardware is much more capable19:10
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BTobotrasssvb: I see19:10
* BTobotras uses n800 as a SDHC flash reader, having lost his camera's cable :)19:11
ssvbBTobotras: I got 1.3MB/s wifi download speed on 770 (with a patched driver and downloading file to /dev/null)19:11
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ssvbBTobotras: well, actually 7mbit is not so bad, how much is it in megabytes per second? are you benchmarking storing data to the flash card?19:13
GeneralAntilles~800KB/sec19:13
Khertan0.25Mbits/s en ftp19:13
kpanichi, anyone knows how to parse the result of adapter.getRemoteServiceRecord? I have to extract the obex channel thanks19:14
GeneralAntilles600-800KB/sec is what I get with SCP.19:14
BTobotrasssvb: no, reading from flash, xfering via wifi by scp and storing on the hosts' hdd19:14
BTobotrasGeneralAntilles: exactly19:14
kpanicin python19:14
ssvbBTobotras: what cipher are you using for ssh?19:15
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BTobotrasssvb: aes128-cbc IIRC19:17
ssvbBTobotras: trying other ciphers such as blowfish can probably help to improve scp performance19:21
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BTobotrasssvb: yes, I got your point :)19:22
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denis`Is there a german maemo channel ?19:48
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BTobotrasdenis`: this one. Just keep speaking english :)19:51
denis`ah well ok :)19:51
denis`Just wanted to ask if there is a offline store that has the N810 in Germany19:52
NaviAny nokia stores in Germany?19:52
NaviThey should carry some19:52
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denis`Hmm yeah thats what I thought as well19:54
pH5I've seen the n810 in several big consumer electronic stores.19:54
denis`the Nokia store in Darmstadt had no device :/19:54
denis`hmm in which ?19:54
denis`I was at Saturn, Media Markt19:54
denis`they told me that they won't get it19:55
NaviDid you ask them about it?19:55
denis`yeah19:55
denis`sure19:55
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denis`It's always the same when I try to get something offline :)19:56
denis`no one has it19:56
pH5pH5: yes, those. strange, here in berlin some of them carry the n810 in their mobile phone/pda section.19:56
pupnikthat's because you have refined tastes and the mass market does not19:56
BTobotrashttp://shop.nokia.de/nokia-de/product.aspx?sku=3752591&culture=de-DE19:56
denis`Yeah ok BTobotras then I can buy it at Amazon as well :)19:57
* pH5 realizes he's talking to himself19:57
pH5s/pH5/denis`/19:57
infobotpH5 meant: denis`: yes, those. strange, here in berlin some of them carry the n810 in their mobile phone/pda section.19:57
BTobotrasdenis`: prolly :)19:57
denis`;)19:57
denis`But ok it was the last time trying to get something offline :D19:57
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NavipH5, getting a little crazy there, eh?20:00
pH5pH5: who knows20:00
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pH5solmumaha: is http://en.pastebin.ca/920903 all that is needed to get 800x480 ja2 straciatella?20:16
melmothsarass, c est haut chez ben !20:18
solmumahapH5: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=943&stc=1&d=120260364520:21
solmumahai've already done that, latest and demo are 800x480 except for the menus20:23
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pH5solmumaha: thanks, I know. I'm just trying to reproduce. did you modify anything else?20:27
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solmumahawell Tron added support for right click with the menu button (WITH_MAEMO) so i only changed the i.m.p code to blank20:29
solmumahahe also gave me a patch to create a demo, must be in svn now too20:29
pH5great, which key is mapped to the alt key?20:30
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denis`What is the best way to start developing sth for Maemo with Python and for the gui evas (edje theming) ?20:32
solmumahapH5: are you going to hack on it?20:32
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solmumahayou could bind the fullscreen and +- to some actions like next/previous villain and maybe pause20:33
solmumahaother keys are used by the game already with 770 and n80020:34
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pH5solmumaha: next villain is already the enter key. we could misuse fullscreen for the map screen on n770/n800.20:41
pH5I wonder if it'd be feasible to have the fullscreen key switch the game between fullscreen and windowed mode :)20:42
lcukwow ph5, thats remarkable, how did you come up with that idea? ;)20:42
pH5(to look at the time for example, ja2 is a time killer)20:42
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pH5lcuk: :)20:43
solmumahayou could try to prevent the home key from working ;)20:43
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pH5yes, or make the app appear in the task list.20:44
lcukif you are gonna go that far, could someone remap the power button ;)20:44
solmumahathat would be better, would make the fullscreen toggle kinda useless then20:45
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NaviEw, rsync segfaults.21:03
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GeneralAntillesYou gave up your right to complain. :P21:06
NaviNot yet!21:06
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* lcuk curses21:16
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pH5solmumaha: the StartupWMClass/SDL_VIDEO_X11_WMCLASS trick from http://maemo.org/community/wiki/gamedevelopment/ works for ja2, too.21:20
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inteliwaspis there an irc client for os'08?21:21
_berto_inteliwasp: I think that there's xchat21:22
pH5inteliwasp: telepathy-idle, xchat, pidgin, irssi21:22
inteliwaspare they in the maemo repos?21:22
GeneralAntillesxchat is still beta21:23
GeneralAntilleshttp://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/21:23
inteliwaspmmmm beta...21:23
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NaviBeta still works21:25
inteliwaspoh yea, how can i make the web browser use the d21:25
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inteliwaspoops i ment d pad scroll instead of links?21:26
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Navithere's a thread about it on ITT21:26
inteliwaspdid they solve it?(i mean shuld i look it up?)21:29
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solmumahapH5: thanks, didn't know about that21:32
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GeneralAntillesinteliwasp, timeless put together a deb to do it for you.21:34
GeneralAntillesShould be linked on the WONTFIX dpad bug on bugzilla.21:34
inteliwaspcool21:34
* inteliwasp loves his new n800 :)21:35
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inteliwaspnow all i need is to find netstumbler ans load all my 'nix programs21:36
Stskeepshrm, repository.* down?21:41
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rghoshWhy does the battery last longer on the n810 if it ships with a 1500 mAh battery as the n800 does, especially when the processor runs faster?  I have read that the battery is 'smarter'.. is that the only reason?22:40
GeneralAntillesIt's the same processor.22:40
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GeneralAntillesI've never actually seen anybody do a real side-by-side to confirm that claim.22:40
rghoshsame processor, but in n800 by default it's stepped down22:40
rghoshso it runs faster in the n81022:40
GeneralAntillesWrong.22:41
GeneralAntillesIt's the same processor, running at the same speed.22:41
GeneralAntilles(well, they both step between 165 and 400MHz)22:41
rghoshMy understanding is different22:41
rghoshout of the box, with os200722:41
rghoshthe 800 runs at a reduced speed22:41
GeneralAntillesApples to Oranges22:41
GeneralAntillesOS2008 on both devices, both devices run the same speed22:42
rghoshout of the box compared to out of the box22:42
GeneralAntillesN810 with OS2007 would run at 330MHz22:42
GeneralAntillesOut of the box to out of the box is apples to oranges.22:42
GeneralAntillesOS2008 steps22:42
rghoshfrom a product perpspetive, no22:42
GeneralAntillesOS2007 doesn't22:42
rghoshout of the box is the only fair comparison22:42
rghoshbut anywa22:42
rghoshi don't want to debate that22:42
GeneralAntillesNo, no it's not.22:42
rghoshyes but anyway22:42
GeneralAntillesout-of-the-box is a stupid comparison22:42
GeneralAntillesespecially for these devices.22:43
rghoshno22:43
rghoshbut anyway22:43
jottthe firmware evolved...22:43
rghoshassuming they're running the same os22:43
jottthe same devices now ships with different firmware22:43
rghoshat the same cpu speed22:43
jottso you could compare the *same* device and came do different conclusions22:43
LoCusFgoddamn internal memory card corruption :<22:43
rghoshif they have the same capacity of battery (1500 mAh)22:43
LoCusFdoes formatting the internal card to ext2 solve anything?22:44
rghoshis the only advantage that the n810 has under those circumstances that the battery is 'smarter'22:44
rghoshor does the firmware difference you speak of also relate to the difference?22:44
GeneralAntillesThe battery difference is purely a matter of size, as far as I'm aware.22:44
GeneralAntillesOS2008 steps the CPU between 165MHz and 400MHz22:44
jottwell os2008 has a better powermanagement22:44
GeneralAntillesOS2007 is locked to 330MHz22:44
jotte.g. speed stepping as GeneralAntilles points out22:45
jottprobably alot more optimization22:45
rghoshyeah as i'm aware of, that's not my question22:45
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NaviQWhere can I get easyroot?22:45
jottnitapps.com22:46
GeneralAntillesThe battery is neither smart nor stupid, it's a battery.22:46
Navithank you22:46
Navistupid battery22:46
rghoshi put it in quotes for a reason22:46
GeneralAntillesThe change was a form-factor-only change.22:46
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rghoshnon-sequitur22:47
jottGeneralAntilles: not entirely true22:47
jottbut to large parts it was..22:47
GeneralAntillesre the batteries, jott.22:47
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* jott still does not get rghoshs point22:48
rghosh Help is at hand in breaking the code of silence. An increasing number of  today's rechargeable batteries are made 'smart'. Equipped with a microchip, these  batteries are able to communicate with the charger and user alike. Typical applications  for 'smart' batteries are notebook computers and video cameras. Increasingly,  these batteries are also used in biomedical devices and defense applications.  http://batteryun22:49
rghoshso please dispense with the needless argument22:49
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smackpotat1find doesnt work with for me ,with -size any sugestions22:49
rghoshi'm not looking for a pointless debate22:49
smackpotat1in a pointless debate i pic the stylus22:50
GeneralAntillesrghosh, I'm really not sure WHAT you're looking for.22:50
rghoshyeah apparently you aren't22:50
jottin a pointERless debate i would use a finger :p22:50
Navivoid *jottptr = NULL;22:52
jotthey this IS a pointer :p22:52
* jott slashes &Navi22:53
smackpotat1dont go wagging it at me the stylus is the onl way to,go22:53
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rm_yourghosh: if you're trying to determine whether the n810's battery is "smart equipped" in that sense... I'm not positive, but i doubt it.... I would *hope* that nokia would make a big deal out of it (or at least mention it somewhere) if it was.22:54
rghoshhttp://www.smape.com/en/reviews/nokia/Nokia_N810-review.html is part of what provoked the question22:54
rghoshbut it didn't have much detail22:55
NaviI'm out22:55
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smackpotat1something is using up my internal flash23:12
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XATRIXis it possible to install OS2008 on 770 ?23:29
GeneralAntillesOS2008HE, yes23:29
solmumahais there a fix for the sound problem yet?23:30
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XATRIXGeneralAntilles> and as i understand, i can install XFCE on OS2008 ?23:32
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XATRIXcan't i ?23:32
Tama^2Hello23:32
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