IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-02-13

jkubut you just need to start it up somehow when that happens...00:00
indolentjku: yes :) . I tried using iwconfig commands like mode and power, but they dont seem to work00:00
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jkuwireless is tricky -- should try sacrificing a rubber chicken or something00:01
indolentis there a power management configuration file or something..00:02
indolentfrom where I can delete wireless device :)00:02
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dragornWow, it's really annoying that the wayfinder stuff sends you to some random finnish payment gateway00:03
jkuah, think of the devil...00:03
jkuindolent, I was just going to suggest you try kismet00:04
GeneralAntillesrm_you, here's an idea: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141675&postcount=800:04
indolentjku: i tried kismet, but that also fails when i get disconnected from AP,00:05
jkuindolent, are running these as root?00:05
indolentnanny is way too powerful ..00:05
indolentjku: yes00:06
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: hrm00:09
rm_youyeah i posted a response00:09
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dragornRunning kismet and being connected to an AP are orthogonal00:11
GeneralAntillesrm_you, might make a cool feature once you get a prefs dialog in.00:12
GeneralAntillesJust run the script once a second when the applet is open?00:12
cyberholic5356Ok everyone... as the force download does not work, i changed the atarashi maemo-ezine so that you can download it, if you press and hold the DOWNLOAD button. Then through the context-menu go and download it to your device. Just in case someone would like to know.... here is the link once again: http://www.cyberholic.de/atarashi00:12
rm_youyeah... i guess? i'm not sure what he's talking about00:13
rm_youno n810 >_>00:13
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GeneralAntillesYeah, I dunno why he can't use it.00:13
GeneralAntillesBut ag2 put out a little console script that polls the light meter on the N810.00:13
rm_youGeneralAntilles: and that's NOT a good idea, i believe.... because that will keep the CPU from sleeping very much <_<00:13
lcuk_3hmmmmm, now that was interesting00:13
GeneralAntillesPutting a readout in the applet could be interesting00:14
GeneralAntillesrm_you, only have it update when it's open.00:14
rm_youwhen it's popped down, you mean?00:14
rm_youwouldnt that defeat the purpose?00:14
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rm_youof having it automatically adjust?00:14
GeneralAntillesWhy would it defeat the purpose?00:14
lcuk_3i just screwed up my program writing to the screen.  through code error i got caught in a loop and ended up forcing reboot with power button.  i saw flashes of the "CHarging..." thing you get with power off, but my program still had control and was running00:15
lcuk_3i thought all apps were shutdown at poweroff?00:15
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GeneralAntillesI'm thinking of having it print out a lux reading00:15
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GeneralAntillesnot update the backlight based on that reading.00:15
rm_youwouldnt you want it to autoadjust by itself without having to click around with the applet? if you're going to click down the applet to have it autoadjust the light level, you might as well just click the right level yourself >_>00:15
rm_youwell... i don't think that's what he's asking for? it sounded to me like he wanted it to autoadjust00:15
GeneralAntillesMaybe00:15
GeneralAntillesdunno00:15
rm_youbut i'm not sure, because he wasn't very clear00:15
GeneralAntillesBut I still like my idea. :D00:16
rm_youoption: [ ] Show Light Meter Readout00:16
johnxneither of you even *have* N810s anyways...00:16
rm_youjohnx: lol00:16
rm_youjohnx: seen the new version? :P00:16
lcuk_3in the space it takes to give the option why not just give the readout?00:16
GeneralAntillesShut up, johnx. :P00:16
* johnx hasn't seen any version...00:16
rm_youhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14168100:17
rm_youlcuk_3: the options pane wouldnt be always up00:17
rm_youit'd be in the control panel or something00:17
johnxslick!00:17
rm_youi'm trying to keep it minimal looking...00:17
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rm_youthe whole POINT is to conserve space and such00:17
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johnxcan you add a game of tetris?00:18
jkurm_you, nice00:18
rm_youlol00:18
jkumaybe a flight simulator?00:18
jkujust a small one00:18
johnxoooh...something like google earth!00:18
lcuk_3conserving space is only essential if you have a lot to fit on the screen00:18
rm_youyou guys are evil00:18
lcuk_3i would want a big button at either end "dimmest" "brightest"00:19
lcuk_3no need to aim or anything00:19
lcuk_3(but thats just me)00:19
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leif__lcuk_3, when it says "charging" it is in a different linux runlevel, not all processes are stopped00:22
RadlyBarack Obama voted FOR the Patriot Act, more funding for America's aggression in Iraq, and every increased spending measure he could get his lying articulate hands on. Hmmm lets add some more contradictions and exposed lies...... In the NH debate, he called for going into Pakistan. In many speaches he has advocated going into Africa for peacekeeping. (Sounds like that would be worse than Vietnam!)00:22
RadlyOh yeah!!! THAT WILL REALLY HEAL AMERICA. Keep on believing it Obamatards. You all will be sorry, as Barack Hussein Obama is no better than Clinton or Edwards.00:22
Tama^2O.o00:22
Tama^2wrong channel? :P00:23
lcuk_3maybe thats why people are having problems with rebooting - if a runaway process (like mine was) is running then they cant do it without popping battery - thats what i did.    i thought it rebooted and loaded up in battery mode (which would ensure the progs are stable)00:23
leif__nope, it doesn't reboot when you "switch off" with the power plugged in00:24
dragornsorry, juggling half a dozen things.  People with wifi problems:  If your signal goes away and it drops dead randomly, try changing channels at least 6 channels away from what you're using.  (ie, 6 to 1 or 11, 1 to 6 or 11, etc).  It could be noise (ie cordless phone, microwave, etc) or it could be a competing network which knocks yours out when it gets saturated.  Try somewhere far away in the spectrum and see if it's better.00:24
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leif__if you ssh into the tablet and switch off into charging mode, it goes offline but doesn't break the connection... so, when you turn it back on and reconnect the wifi, your ssh connection is still alive00:25
lcuk_3hmmm so even if i manually switch off its not even close to being off00:27
GeneralAntillesHere's my crappy, badly done mockup: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/adv-backlight-mockup.jpg00:27
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jkuGeneralAntilles, what's it good for?00:30
GeneralAntillesWhat good for?00:30
jkuthe lux number00:30
rm_youthe settings button i agree with :)00:31
GeneralAntillesTell you how bright your environment is.00:31
jku:)00:31
GeneralAntillesSome people may like it.00:31
GeneralAntillesLight meters are expensive.00:31
jkublind people?00:31
leif__lcuk_3, you just need to switch off with the power unplugged and then it will really shutdown00:31
shackansome people may use their eyes00:31
GeneralAntillesMake kind of a cool option.00:31
GeneralAntillesMildly interesting demo feature.00:32
jkuSure00:32
rm_youGeneralAntilles: yeah, i can add an option to it.00:32
rm_youwill need to add config file parsing <_<00:32
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rm_youbut that was inevitable00:32
leif__how about reading the thermometer too?00:32
rm_youlol00:32
GeneralAntillesAlso not a bad optoin.00:32
* rm_you was trying to keep the application minimal00:32
GeneralAntilless/optoin/option/00:32
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Also not a bad option.00:32
rm_youi guess <_<00:32
GeneralAntillesMeh, as long as it's an option. :P00:33
jkurm_you, good goal, don't give up00:33
leif__minimal schminimal00:33
rm_youlol00:33
rm_youi'm a CLI guy <_<00:33
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rm_youeach application should be minimal, and do one specific function, WELL..00:34
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lcddyou want your terminal to handle input AND output?00:34
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||cwdo one things and do it well is great and all, but when a project needs to use several things that really slow things down, whihc is why we have libraries and API's00:36
NeoStrider_anyone knows how to enable internet access on scratchbox?00:37
* GeneralAntilles enjoys encouraging feature creep.00:37
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leif__I'm a fan of CLI minimalism, but if you're going to display the LUX reading then the temp is the next logical step...00:38
jkunot to mention flight simulator00:38
BlafaselSomething completely offtopic: Any canadian in here?00:38
leif__jku, that obviously is the next next step00:38
NeoStrider_Blafasel:  pretty soon I will be in canada00:38
NeoStrider_and u?00:39
BlafaselNeoStrider_: Any insight into the canadion legislation? I just read a document outlining the legal part of a kind of "lottery" (vmware giving away iPhones).00:40
Blafasel1) Quebec is excluded explicitly (and I've seen this part more than once), 2) any winner from canada (and only from there) has to pass a "test question without help" to claim the price.00:41
NeoStrider_Blafasel: they got cassinos, right?00:41
BlafaselSeems like they are nuts about those kind of things and I'd like to learn what's up with that. Yeah, completely OT, but.. Crazy. Fascinating.00:41
rm_youleif__: yes, that would be the next step from lux... but i was referring to just lux as feature creep ^_^00:42
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NeoStrider_Blafasel:  nuts about iPhone, you mean?00:43
jkurm_you, seriously speaking IMO it is feature creep and shouldn't be there -- I like the automatic brightness change based on it, but lux should not be visible00:45
rm_youjku: so we're agreed :P00:45
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rm_youi'm open to be convinced otherwise, but IMO it would actually detract <_<00:45
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GeneralAntillesHow does Nokia do their brightness changes+00:47
GeneralAntilles?00:47
BlafaselNeoStrider_: No, about winning stuff (online? no idea)00:47
leif__perhaps a desktop applet would be a better place to display sensor readings00:47
jkuleif__, that's a better idea for those interested in them...00:48
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NeoStrider_Blafasel: its not about the prize, its thrills00:48
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jkuGeneralAntilles, that should be Free, let me check00:51
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jkuno, I was wrong00:52
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lcuk_3modern technology: when you have to look at your hardware to tell you how bright it is...00:57
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GeneralAntillesSpecific lux readings can be quite useful. :P01:00
johnxnow we just need a couple more sensors to get to "tricorder" level...01:01
johnxand a spectrometer...01:01
rschusterwhoever wants to know the size of the skin area of the hildonwindow should retrieve the "borders" property :)01:01
GeneralAntillesRadar!01:01
BlafaselGeiger..01:02
johnxrschuster, out of curiosity what is it? like 720x440 or so?01:02
johnxI actually just saw something on how to make your own IR based "personal radar"01:02
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rschusterlcuk_3: this time future has won ;)01:07
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rm_youlol01:13
rm_youTricorder :P01:13
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leif__https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/bluez-utils-debian/trunk/changelog lots of new features in the 3 Feb update01:19
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rm_yousomeone just needs to make an app that takes readings from temp and light and then uses them to display a bunch of graphical gauges and blinking lights and spinning things :P01:20
rm_youand makes beeping noises randomly01:20
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GeneralAntillesThere's RX-48 again.01:21
leif__yeah, thats what led me there :)01:21
GeneralAntillesautomatic audio service start? Huh01:21
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leif__does handsfree profile support mean making calls with rtcomm?01:21
Mousey...heh, all we're missing is an accelleromoter and a vibrator01:21
johnxoooh, AVRCP by default01:22
jkuleif__, can't think of anything else01:22
johnxawesome01:23
rm_youlol01:23
rm_youthats what lets the bluetooth headphones control volume/playback via their hardware buttons, right?01:24
MouseyHSP yea01:24
johnxyeah, and the SBC optimizations mean A2DP will be more efficient01:24
leif__so if anyone is looking for a list of things to put in a home applet applet, we'd like lux, temp, wifi signal strength, cpu freq scaling, battery percentage, and what else?01:24
Mouseynetwork traffic graph01:24
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leif__ping times maybe?01:24
johnxwe could just use conky at this rate...01:25
Mouseya checklist to turn on/off all of the crazy options people stuff in thre01:25
GeneralAntillesIP address01:25
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Mouseyoh, the ability to stretch the stupid bar, so ALL the applets show up01:26
Mouseythat'd be hot01:26
GeneralAntilles?01:26
GeneralAntillesThis is a home applet01:26
Mouseyoh01:26
Mouseynm01:26
GeneralAntillesnot a statusbar applet01:26
Mousey^_^01:26
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GeneralAntillesBut, statusbar size is a theme thing, anyway.01:26
leif__i don't think themes can make more applets show up there01:27
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Mouseyi didn't think it was01:27
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Mouseycompete applet position configurablity!01:27
leif__the size of the thing is defined in the theme's matchbox.xml file, but somehow I doubt making it wider would cause more applets to be displayed01:27
Mouseythat'd be nice01:28
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Mouseywhat about the ability to scroll the home applet bar down so a large amount of applets could be put on it. like a conveyor belt [with the taskswitcher part static at the bottom]01:28
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johnxalso, look in ~/.osso/desktop.conf (I think)01:29
johnxthere is some mumbling there about the statusbar but I haven't played with it01:29
* Mousey is a relative newbie to this whole hildon thing, so please forgive me 01:29
Mouseyor!01:30
Mouseydrawers!01:30
Mouseylike on gnome panels01:30
Mousey^_^01:30
* johnx just wants a proper nextstep/windowmaker/macosx dock...01:30
leif__ah yeah the size of the hildon-desktop panels are defined in the .osso/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf as well as the matchbox.xml01:30
Mouseyew01:31
leif__in lcars we shaved five pixels from the statusbar (whole titlebar actually) in the matchbox xml01:31
Mouseynot nextstep/windowmaker/macosx. this is a tablet, tablet and desktop UI use cases differ greatly01:31
leif__15 from the whole titlebar, 5 from the statusbar01:31
* Mousey LOVES the lcars on the n810! t'was the belle of the ball at SCALE this year!01:31
leif__thanks :)01:32
leif__what is SCALE?01:32
Mouseyhttp://socallinuxexpo.org01:33
johnxMousey, believe me, I know about different use cases, but I've already tried windowmaker on the N800...all it needs is single click instead of double click to be pretty reasonable01:33
Mouseysuprised me nokia wasn't there.. especially since the raffle was for an n81001:33
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Mouseyjohnx: i still maintain that the bar along the left should be scrollable like the album list or the song list in canola01:33
Mouseyexcept the icon at the bottom for shoing all running tasks01:34
Mouseyit would fit how people use the tablet a lot better than a static dock01:34
Mouseythe ONLY other n810 at scale was mine01:34
Mouseyand if i let anybody look at it, 8 people later i'd get it back01:34
Mouseythere were n800s to be sure tho01:34
lcuk_3which library/include do i need to use    mutex_unlock(struct mutex *m)  ??01:35
Mouseyeven rasterman [of enlightenment.org fame] was at SCALE showing how canola used his EFL stuff01:35
johnxthe nice thing about a dock is that there is *one* instance of an application, whether it's running or not01:35
Tama^2lcuk_3: maybe pthreads ?01:36
Mouseyjohnx: i don't think that is an incompatible idea to what I'd love to see01:36
Mouseylike how OSX has the dock and the tasklist on the same construction01:37
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Mouseyits just when i have 8 apps open there's no way for me to see the rest of the icons unless i open the taskbar applet01:37
Mouseyi'd much rather scroll it01:37
Mouseyand be able to place launchers01:37
Mouseyand live docklets would ALSO be awesome, but i want the moon, i think01:38
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johnxMousey, notice how if you hide an app instead of minimize it, it doesn't add an extra icon?01:38
lcuk_3thx Tama^2 ill have a look01:38
Mouseyjohnx: UI rule breaking mind bending nonsense..01:38
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Mouseyalthough, for those who like a clean interface, it suites01:39
Mouseythey're still avail thru the taskapplet01:39
Mouseywhatever the hell it's called, i don't even know if it has a name01:39
johnxI don't see a reason to have a minimize option at all, really...01:39
Mouseytrue, it's not necessarily windowing01:39
Mouseybut i do use it a lot01:39
johnxthe minimize on the tablet already acts more like hide anyways01:39
Mouseywait01:40
Mouseyit does still show on the panel if u minimise01:40
johnxright but it doesn't *add* another icon01:40
Mouseywell that's good right?01:40
Mouseythe icon is there regardless01:40
Mouseyif it's running, there's an icon01:41
johnxyeah, I just want the icon there whether it's running or not01:41
Mouseythat's called a launcher01:41
johnxdock is a unified launcher and task manager01:41
Mouseyif it was scrollable, then there's every reason to be able to add launchers01:41
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johnxthat's why I want a dock01:41
Mouseywe agree01:41
johnxalright01:41
Mouseyi also want drawers01:41
Mouseyso i can group launchers01:41
Mousey^_^01:41
johnxdrawers might be nice01:41
Mouseymakes more sense than menus01:42
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Mouseytho menus have their place01:42
Mouseygod that'd be hot01:42
Mouseyok, i'm getting too excited for nothing. sorry01:42
johnxtoo bad neither of us are up to coding it...01:42
johnxactually...a new task navigator plugin *could* do this I *think*01:43
leif__is it possible to develop TN plugins in python?01:43
johnxI wish Nokia open sourced *their* task navigator plugins so I new where to start...01:43
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johnxleif__, I don't even know...01:43
leif__and/or without scratchbox?01:44
johnxreally not a fan of scratchbox?01:44
leif__i'm on linuxppc mostly so i can't use scratchbox :(01:44
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leif__i have an intel system but it doesn't get turned on much01:45
johnxwell, you can always dev natively on qemu...01:45
johnxleif__, are you on debian/ubuntu?01:45
leif__yes, debian01:45
leif__and ubuntu also01:45
johnxapt-cache search hildon :)01:45
leif__:)01:45
leif__yes i've played with ubuntu mobile a bit01:46
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leif__the task navigator doesn't run by default there01:46
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johnxon debian they're grabbing Nokia's flavor of Maemo01:46
leif__so i've seen, nothing in the official repos yet tho afaik01:46
johnxah01:47
johnxit's mostly there as source01:47
johnxI assume the autobuilders haven't done a build for PPC or ARM yet...01:47
leif__ubuntu mobile on powerpc wasn't much fun, as they rely on flash01:49
leif__maybe it would work with gnash tho, i haven't tried01:49
* johnx hates flash01:49
* leif__ also hates flash01:49
* lcuk_3 thinks flash is better than silverlight01:49
leif__my N800 is the only thing I use regularly that has it installed :)01:49
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johnxleif__, I already found flashblock for microb...01:50
leif__I just leave it disabled until i need it, plugins can be toggled in the menu at the bottom right01:51
johnxanyways, I actually compiled enough hildon stuff to run a full hildon "session" in debian on the N80001:51
leif__what task navigator plugins worked?01:51
leif__apps menu?01:51
leif__app switcher?01:51
leif__nothing else, right?01:51
johnxapps menu and switcher01:51
johnxnope, no home applets, no status bar applets, nothing01:51
johnxit's the Nokia version of "open source"01:52
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rm_you>_>01:53
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unique311_why won't my wimmote pair with my NIT01:53
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rm_youI wish they would just finish the job they started and open source the rest of the stuff in hildon... the only stuff left is almost trivial (BACKLIGHT APP!?!? WTF)01:54
unique311_i tried pairing with hcitool cc MACID01:54
unique311_still no go01:54
johnxrm_you, it's not trivial when *combined*01:54
Mouseyjohnx: yea, well i can't code at all, i'm more of a hardware guy =/01:54
rm_you<_<01:54
rm_yousure it is01:54
johnxcombined it makes up most of the functionality of the device01:54
johnxbrowser UI is closed source, parts of the calculator01:54
rm_youcp hildon/*.[ch] /var/www/hildon-source/01:54
rm_youdone01:54
rm_you>_>01:55
leif__johnx, did you try building the rss-reader-applet on debian?01:55
leif__it is the one open applet afaik01:55
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|tbb|rm_you: dont u want to add the advance display settings to the advance back light app?01:55
johnxI'll need to see what it depends on01:56
Mouseyspeaking of01:56
Mouseyanyone know why i can't xfer files to/from my treo700p?01:56
rm_you|tbb|: i considered it, not sure how to get to that though01:56
rm_youi may try to figure it out...01:56
|tbb|anyone tested youtube viewer01:59
leif__i wonder what all the libhildonfm related packages are doing in ubuntu (and going into debian too apparently) given that osso-filemanager-ui is closed02:01
johnxleif__, booting my n800 into debian now...I think something else depends on them02:01
johnxwill check02:01
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Mouseyleif__: good, the osso-filemanager sucks02:06
Mouseyexcept for the zeroconf and smb stuff02:06
Mouseywhy can't it show the filesystem proper?!?02:07
* Mousey cries02:07
johnxbut it sure would be nice to have it as a starting point02:07
johnxany replacement for it will have to be from the ground up...02:07
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johnxMousey, tried gpe filemanager?02:09
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lcuk_3mutex is a function in the kernel, how do i link to it with gcc?02:11
lcuk_3is it just like i do -lX11 ?02:12
lcuk_3but i have to know the library name02:12
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Mouseyjohnx: yea.. i use it, but it's not good for cross-partition/device/network xfers02:13
Mousey...or i'm too ignorant about it02:13
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rm_youMousey: scp or rsync for network transfers >_>02:18
rm_youor cross device/partition02:18
rm_you<<--- CLI guy, again02:18
johnxa lightweight filemanager supporting gvfs would be really awesome...02:19
leif__Mousey, this might cause problems with the media crawler (iirc it did) but it is easy enough to browse the whole filesystem with the osso-filemanger...02:20
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leif__ln -s / /home/user/MyDocs/filesystem02:20
Mouseyleif__: well, the way it displays the device initially in the navigation tree on the left, it shows a pesudo-folder structure which is very confounding for me.. While i'm a newschool GUI user, i've been in linux for almost 14 years. I prefer truth in GUI.. ^_^02:21
Mouseyoh02:21
Mouseythat's a good idea!!02:21
Mouseythat's brilliant02:22
leif__heh02:22
* Mousey huggles leif__ 02:22
Mouseyonly irc huggles tho, i'm married02:22
leif__don't blame me when the media crawler drains your battery in an infinite loop02:22
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Mouseyhmm02:22
leif__(not sure if it still does that, but it did in 2007 i think)02:22
Mouseyinteresting02:23
Mouseyi'm not maemo-acclimated enough to file bug reports yet, but i'm getting more and more irritated that i don't have scratchbox installed yet02:23
Mouseyugh, and i talk too much.. ^_^02:23
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johnxI can confirm that metalayer-crawler gets itself into loops in OS2008 as well02:25
johnxjust give it an SD card with an ext2 partition holding a debian install and it goes *nuts* almost instantly...02:25
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skiburAnybody watch CNN?02:27
rm_youMousey: it's nice to see someone besides myself spam #maemo a bit :P02:31
rm_youI tend to talk about 400% more than than anyone else here (when i'm online)02:31
rm_youit happens :P02:31
rm_youthough the key there is probably "when I'm online"... because when others are online and i'm not, they're talking infinately more :P02:32
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Mouseyrm_you: ty! ^_^02:34
MouseyI just feel the least equipped to be so verbose, having come so late to the party02:35
Mouseyand only being a hardware dude02:35
Mouseybut still02:35
Mouseydamn02:35
Mouseyi LOVE this tablet02:35
Mouseythe UMPC era is really here!02:35
lcuk_3linux is on my desktop this year :)02:35
Mouseyhaha02:35
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Mouseyi've been doing the linux desktop professionally for years02:36
Mouseyin fact02:36
rm_youack bbl02:36
johnxyeah, it will be interesting to see what intel turns up in terms of low power x86 chips in the coming year or two02:36
Mouseythis year marks the 10th year i HAVEN'T used windows02:36
johnxwow...probably me too02:36
Mouseyi've missed 2000, xp, and now vista02:36
lcuk_3i feel now like i never got closer than "that looks like a nice game" and booted back to windows02:36
johnxI have to think about that02:36
johnxwell I've still dual booted for games from time to time02:37
Mouseyi've even recently become an apple hater02:37
Mouseyeven though it's hard to argue with success02:37
lcuk_3but i havent felt like this about anything since my amiga died02:37
johnxI *had* to play HL2...02:37
johnxand portal02:37
lcuk_3portal is my current squeeze02:37
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lcuk_3thou ive been ignoring GLaDOS for a bit too long02:37
Mouseyjohnx: dude, i bought the Orange Box becuase out-of-the-box WINE runs TF2, Portal, and all the HL2s just fine02:37
johnxbut windows lost the main spot on my desktop in mid 1998 I guess02:37
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leif__i've never used windows much, haven't had an install in many years02:37
Mouseyin fact:02:38
rm_youthere was a larger than real size Companion Cube at Ikkicon :P02:38
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leif__quit using OS X about 1.25 years ago now02:38
rm_youI got to hug it :P02:38
lcuk_3have you seen the small actual weighted models02:38
Mouseyleif__: yea, i hate OSX's interface02:38
lcuk_3like large dice02:38
johnxMousey, my rig is borderline able to cope with portal so I just dual booted02:38
leif__I'm also becoming more of an apple hater as time goes on02:38
Mouseyhttp://www.fsckin.com/2007/10/15/how-to-run-team-fortress-2-half-life-2-hl2-ep-12-in-ubuntu-using-wine/02:38
rm_youI made one of the papercraft ones02:38
rm_youand weighted it with pennies :P02:38
Mouseyjohnx: probably runs better under linux then02:38
johnxuhm no02:38
GeneralAntillesApple's mobile forays are disappointing me.02:38
johnxit runs worse...I tested it...02:38
rm_youGeneralAntilles: you use a Mac >_>02:38
GeneralAntillesI really don't like the Apple Computer, Inc. -> Apple, Inc. deal.02:39
lcuk_3i dont like companion cube with the heart, the original evil cube looks better02:39
GeneralAntillesI love OS X.02:39
GeneralAntillesDon't care for the iPods/iPhone.02:39
rm_youGeneralAntilles: i can tell because of all the ridiculously annoying extra folders and files that get included in the zips you send me :P02:39
johnxlcuk_3, did you not finish portal?02:39
GeneralAntillesHaha02:39
lcuk_3johnx, yes, i died in the fire, why?02:39
rm_you__MACOSX02:39
rm_you.DSStore02:39
rm_you>_>02:40
* GeneralAntilles should sanitize them first.02:40
rm_youlcuk_3: >_>02:40
johnxlcuk_3, then I won't spoil anything for you...02:40
lcuk_3John you plonker, "This was a triumph!"02:40
rm_youlol02:40
lcuk_3"I'm making a note here..."02:40
rm_you:P02:40
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lcuk_3of bloody course i finished it, its a gr8 game02:40
johnxI just mean, the companion cube with a heart was in the game...02:40
rm_you:P02:40
rm_youack! bbl02:40
leif__GeneralAntilles, you should export COPY_EXTENDED_ATTRIBUTES_DISABLE=1 before using apple's GNU tar02:40
johnxthe only one that *is* a companion cube has a heart...02:41
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* lcuk_3 tries to get gcc to link with the kernel. i wanna function out of there02:41
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lcuk_3i know but i prefer throwing the other one around02:41
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lcuk_3some like blondes....others brunettes02:42
johnxsome like blow up dolls...some like the real thing02:42
johnxit's understandable :P02:42
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lcuk_3the only thing i would wonder is what creature are they inflating?02:43
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pupnikleif__: walled gardens.  pretty if you pay the gardner, but don't touch the flowers.02:46
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leif__pupnik, yep02:49
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johnxwalled gardens: sometimes waaay better than being alone in the desert02:51
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Mouseygoodnight once more, internets!03:28
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pupnikI have to drop cpu cycles down to 600 in the Wing Commander Bar scene to get smooth SB2 sound/music03:46
pupnikat which point CPU load is showing 85%03:46
Tama^2"the Wing Commander Bar scene" <--- I automatically thought of Space Balls bar scene03:48
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pupnik9hehe03:57
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pupnikdosbox is making me cry03:57
NaviD:03:57
rm_youlcuk_3: when you figure it out, let me know03:58
lcuk_3which?03:58
lcuk_3the inflatables or the mutex03:58
rm_youerr03:59
rm_youwerent you talking about some function you wanted to be able to call?03:59
rm_yousimilar to one i might want to call to get/set the backlight level on the framebuffer?04:00
rm_youor something?04:00
rm_youi was barely paying attention the first time, sorry >_> lol04:00
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lcuk_3good point, ive been sidetracked getting exclusive access to the frame buffer, i may need to become a kernel module if i want it04:02
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johnxlcuk_3, I don't think you can link to the kernel...do you just want to borrow the mutext function or does it need to do something in kernel space?04:05
Naviis the OS2008 kernel built with uinput?04:06
johnxI don't see UINPUT in the kernel .config file04:08
johnxdo you know what the name of it is? CONFIG_UINPUT?04:08
rm_youi still think this monitor thing is the coolest ever :P04:09
johnxhmm? monitor thing?04:09
rm_yougive me a minute04:10
NaviNot sure. The module itself is just uinput and is called uinput in menuconfig04:10
johnxthat's weird...I don't see anything about it defined or undefined/commented out04:11
johnxah, ok it's probably not enabled04:12
johnxit's CONFIG_INPUT_UINPUT but not defined at all in Nokia's defconfig04:12
Navimmk04:12
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lcuk_3johnx, i need it to lock out everything from the framebuffer04:14
lcuk_3i think however i can achieve the same result another way04:14
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rm_youhrm04:29
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rm_youi accidentally hit the sleep key on this keyboard04:29
rm_youfirst time i've EVER done that04:29
rm_youit esploded04:29
rm_youi dont know WHY they feel the need to have a "break computer" button on like every keyboard... >_<04:30
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johnxyeah...I'm glad that went away quickly04:31
johnxno one *wants* that04:31
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GeneralAntillesBuy a real keyboard, rm_you. ;)04:32
johnxor at least pull the keycaps off04:33
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johnxDebian+xfce on tablet is actually surprisingly usable...04:47
acydlordI must say I'm loving pairing my n810 with my new centro :)04:48
johnxthat's a pretty good combination I would imagine in terms of PIM, web and phone04:49
acydlordindeed04:49
acydlordi mostly like how the sprint vision service takes care of the pppauth for the bluetooth DUN04:49
acydlordi didnt even need their connectivity software when i paired it with my computer, which was nice04:50
johnxI think I swore never to buy a CDMA phone, otherwise that sounds tempting...04:51
johnxI'm holding out for the android phones anyways...04:51
acydlordi'm more interested in the openmoko and greenphones04:51
johnxis the green phone still around?04:51
johnxopenmoko looks nice, but I kind of need my phone to "just work"04:52
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acydlordyeah, thats the only reason i havent bought one yet04:52
acydlordone of my friends works for verizon and has his working on their network04:52
acydlordonly supports sms and calls right now04:52
johnxa green phone?04:53
acydlordnah, an openmoko04:53
acydlordi have a feeling the green phone may make a comeback since nokia is trying to aquire trolltech04:53
johnxhmmm...I think that's a sure sign the green phone is dead actually04:54
johnxI thought openmoko hardware was GSM?04:54
johnxor is he running openmoko on another phone?04:55
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acydlordon another phone04:59
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ligerzeroHi is anyone here?05:00
johnxyup05:00
GeneralAntillesNo.05:00
ligerzeroOkay this is a weird question but hopefully someone can help me05:00
acydlordthe answer is yes05:01
ligerzeroI just bought a used N770 tablet, I went to download OS2006 to reflash, and when I put in my WLAN ID it refused it05:01
johnxthat's interesting05:01
ligerzeroI turn the tablet over and take out the battery, and no product tag...05:02
johnxnice...05:02
johnxyou remembered to take the :'s out of the MAC address right?05:02
ligerzeroyeah05:02
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ligerzeroso it was like 11223344556605:02
johnxyeah, that's right05:03
johnxit's pretty weird that the product label isn't there05:03
johnxdoes it look like it's been removed?05:03
ligerzeroExcept of course it was something like 00020E......05:03
ligerzerono there's no residue.. that's the odd part05:03
johnxanyways, at worst, you can find a disassembly pic on google and "borrow" a MAC address05:04
johnxI don't know how they'd change the MAC address in hardware though05:04
ligerzeroI hate to ask like this, because I have looked on google images and such, but does someone have an ID I can borrow on hand?05:04
* johnx has an n80005:04
ligerzeroit's having weird issues, like in the app manager, it won't download repositories to see for app installs/updates, it says failed when I first even open teh app manager05:05
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johnxyou might be bitten by the WLAN memory corruption bug05:05
ligerzeroYeah it says operation failed.05:06
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ligerzeroHow would one go about fixing that issue?05:06
johnxwell, first you need to reflash...05:06
johnxthen you need to download the fix05:06
pupnikif you see nothing in the log you can restore your package index from the automatically created backup file05:06
ligerzerolol05:06
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ligerzerolog shows section with no Package:header05:08
ligerzeromergelist problem05:08
ligerzeroduplicate sources list05:08
pupnikif you have duplicate sources, remove them by editing /etc/apt/sources.list05:08
ligerzeroGot it05:09
ligerzeroThat worked05:09
ligerzeroAnd in your honest opinion... upgrading to 2007HE?05:10
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pupnikmy favorite part about 2007HE was the screen-tap sound and the theme05:10
rm_youback05:10
rm_youhrm05:10
GeneralAntillesThe horrifying neon and black mess, pupnik? <_<05:11
ligerzerolol05:11
pupniki liked plankton05:11
GeneralAntillesOh, well, that. :D05:11
NaviSo you were being sincere?05:11
GeneralAntillesNokia's color choice has always been a little over-the-top.05:12
GeneralAntillesThe OS2006 beta was particularly gross.05:12
rm_youjohnx, GeneralAntilles: http://cs.trinity.edu/~aharwell/100_1561.JPG http://cs.trinity.edu/~aharwell/100_1562.JPG05:12
GeneralAntillesHa05:13
NaviSweet.05:13
rm_you:P05:13
johnxhaha...that's pretty cool05:13
NaviI'm too anal to have a dual monitor setup like that05:13
* GeneralAntilles was gonna watch that, but it turned out to be American Idol. <_<05:13
rm_youlol05:13
johnxneed to get those panels out of their bevels and mount them closer together :D05:13
johnxdo it, you know you want to :P05:14
GeneralAntillesStill, I win: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/mydesktopleopard.jpg :P05:14
NaviYay, now I get to see GA's five monitor setup05:14
Naviaw, just individual screens05:14
NaviYou're totally lame05:14
GeneralAntillesI've got a cellphone shot which is incredibly horrifying.05:15
rm_youlol05:15
GeneralAntillesI need to find a new smartmedia card for my old digital camera05:15
johnxjeez...that would make me go ADD-insane I think05:15
ligerzeronice05:15
ligerzeroreally nice05:15
Navitake a picture with your n800.  You know you want to.05:15
GeneralAntillesBe cheaper just to get a new Canon A-series.05:15
Navihay look, that's a recent screen05:16
rm_youGeneralAntilles: wait... what's going on there?05:16
GeneralAntillesSkyNet.05:16
NaviA screenshot of each of his monitors at once05:17
rm_youis that five monitors? >_>05:17
GeneralAntillesYeah05:17
rm_youor is that different desktops05:17
Navi:P05:17
rm_youlol... how do you plug in 5 monitors at once? >_>05:17
GeneralAntilles5-monitors. :D05:17
GeneralAntillesThe wonders of having a real computer.05:17
rm_you...05:17
rm_youit's a MAC05:17
rm_youhow the hell :P05:17
Navihaha05:17
GeneralAntillesWell, actually, one of those monitors is a Mac mini hooked up via Synergy (well, teleport, but yeah).05:18
Naviobviously, you can use the same VGA/DVI port for all five monitors05:18
GeneralAntillesHaha05:18
GeneralAntilles2 video cards05:18
rm_youdamnit. sec :P gotta take the video card out of my server really quick and shove it in my desktop and plug in my other two monitors05:18
acydlordlol05:18
Naviha05:18
acydlordi've got 4 displays right now05:18
rm_yougonna have to reboot :P05:18
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acydlordif got the inverters for the laptop panels i have i'd have about 9 =x05:19
* Navi takes six screenshots and pretends that they're six different monitors05:19
acydlordlol05:19
GeneralAntillesHaha05:19
rm_youhrm... i wonder if i can set up House to play on all four monitors... stack them normal rotation but two on top of the other two05:19
acydlordlol, house05:19
GeneralAntillesVideo playback with divider bezels is fail.05:19
rm_youlol05:19
Naviyeah05:19
rm_youi do it :P05:19
rm_youit doesnt bother me05:19
NaviIt's annoying to me05:19
acydlordyou could watch 4 episodes of house to see if he almost kills te patient at the same time every episode05:19
rm_youthe important part which most people don't get05:19
NaviI won't ever be able to do it05:19
NaviIt pisses me off05:20
rm_youis that you need to overlap not just one bezel, but two bezels of width05:20
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rm_youso you are technically losing some of the picture05:20
rm_youbut it makes it look SO much better... because otherwise it looks like theres a space05:20
GeneralAntillesIt's better to have House playing on one screen and be doing 3 other things at the same time. :P05:20
acydlordthats why one must mod the cases off the displays05:20
rm_youyeah i may do that eventualluy05:20
rm_you*eventually05:20
rm_youor maybe that's why i have a HD projector05:21
rm_you:P05:21
rm_youit's just... not *quite* done yet <_<05:21
NaviI don't have room for two monitors, much less five05:21
acydlordi acidentially cut one of the reflective panels modding the cases for a friend's 3 headed display lol05:21
acydlordso now it's got a dim strip05:21
rm_youlol05:21
johnxheh...it's a miracle I even found room for one monitor05:21
rm_youthe sucky part is that my server only boots 1/4th of the time05:22
rm_youand without a vid card in it, i won't be able to tell when that is05:22
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acydlordi have 3 computers and a crt on top of my dresser05:22
acydlordit looks like jenga05:22
GeneralAntillesWhere does Camera save its images. . . .05:23
johnxrm_you, that's why you need a crappy old-school PCI video card05:23
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acydlordGeneralAntilles, i think mmc105:24
GeneralAntilles /home/user/MyDocs/.images/camera05:24
Navi:|05:25
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/whatwasnokiathinking.jpg05:26
Navithat would hurt my neck05:27
johnxgah! more like what was GeneralAntilles thinking!05:27
johnxa world of ow05:27
GeneralAntilles:P05:27
GeneralAntillesI need better cable management.05:27
johnxis that a CRT right next to a giant speaker?05:27
johnxalso, steve jobs would krie05:28
GeneralAntillesYeah05:28
GeneralAntillesOld trinitron I got for free.05:28
GeneralAntillesIt's actually my Xbox display most of the time.05:28
johnxand it doesn't distory massively? that can't be a shielded speaker...05:28
GeneralAntillesUntil my Xbox ended up at Microsoft.05:28
johnxs/distory/distort/g05:28
infobotjohnx meant: and it doesn't distort massively? that can't be a shielded speaker...05:28
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.axiomaudio.com/m22ti_mainb.html05:29
GeneralAntillesYes, it's shielded.05:29
NaviWhoa, a sweet sed bot05:29
johnxthat layout would still make me crazy...05:30
NaviA B A S P05:30
Navis/A/You/g05:30
infobotNavi meant: You B You S P05:30
johnxam not!05:30
NaviA A B B05:30
Navis/B/LOL/05:30
infobotNavi meant: A A LOL B05:31
NaviAwesome!05:31
ProteousA05:31
GeneralAntillesNavi knows how to use sed! :]05:31
Proteouss/A/groan05:31
GeneralAntillesFail.05:31
Proteouser05:31
NaviProteous, you suck05:31
Proteouss/er/groan/05:31
infobotProteous meant: groan05:31
GeneralAntillesjohnx, why crazy?05:31
GeneralAntillesIt's the best for working on stuff05:32
GeneralAntillesstick the reference pages/palettes/whatever on the other screens.05:32
johnxtoo much separation for one thing05:32
Naviespecially with four irc channels05:32
johnxand too much distraction05:32
Navi:D05:32
GeneralAntillesMeh, treat them like virtual desktops.05:32
GeneralAntillesYou don't span stuff over them.05:32
NaviI only use two05:32
GeneralAntillesEach screen has a task.05:32
acydlordi usually watch house and scrubs on my left display05:32
Naviand I span over them05:32
GeneralAntillesI couldn't span.05:33
GeneralAntillesNot even if they were closer together.05:33
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acydlordand then i'll have docs or templates on the 12" screen that is below my main display05:33
johnxI had 2+1 for a while but I have a little less space now05:33
Naviexample: 3D crap05:33
NaviGIMP one one side, Blender on the other05:33
GeneralAntillesjohnx, everybody complains about distances when they look at it.05:33
acydlordspanning is distracting05:33
Navigo back and forth05:33
GeneralAntillesBut it works really well for me.05:33
NaviI need a full screen for Blender and detailing textures05:33
Naviswitching windows is worse than spanning05:34
GeneralAntillesI've never thought about multiple heads as anything other than independent.05:34
acydlordspanning is fine with modded displays or borderless displays05:34
NaviHouse junkies05:34
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acydlordbtw for the house junkies, if you haven't read hugh lauries books you need to05:35
jottjohnx: btw i have a greenphone ;)05:35
GeneralAntillesKumar in House just cracks me up.05:35
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johnxjott, cool. Are they still going anywhere with that?05:36
acydlordthey should do a greenphone olpc bundle05:36
jottwell, qtopia (phone edition) is under development - but the main target is the fic/openmoko phone05:36
acydlordi wish they'd open up the olpc to the public again, i had money the week after the closed it05:37
Naviheh05:38
jottbut it's actually quite usable as a phone..05:38
johnxI assumed the green phone would actually reach that state. Trolltech knows what they're doing05:39
johnxI just wonder about openmoko a little bit...05:39
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Naviopenmoko is expensively expensive... and ugly05:40
jottwell the greenphone was actually never thought as a end-user phone, more as a qtopia development platform05:40
acydlordthey were looking for fall of 08 for an officially usable phone05:40
acydlordbut where the openmoko project stands i dont think so05:40
johnxNavi, can you name another unlocked, no-contract phone with those features for less? *honestly curious*05:40
jottso, the qtopia (phone edition) development still goes on and there are some more targets that are nearly usable (some hacked htc phones)05:41
acydlordopenmoko is what, $250 for the "end user" edition?05:41
Naviacydlord, you missed it by over 100%05:41
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acydlordlast i checked the hardware developer bundle was $50005:42
Navijott, and I got my e70, unlocked, for 2005:42
jotti would also go for the gta02 .. though it's formfactor is really ...erm.. unpleasant ;)05:42
alteregoMy office this afternoon: http://alterego.freeshell.org/images/11022008026.jpg05:42
acydlordnice05:43
johnxheh05:43
acydlordi got one of those nice "unbreakable" large pint glasses05:44
Naviacydlord, oh, and it's expected 450 for basic, 600 for advanced05:44
Navilast I checked05:45
acydlordahh yeah, the previous was 450 and 550 i think05:45
GeneralAntillesJust a reminder: http://ustream.tv/channel/thoughtfixs-live-show05:45
acydlordnot a bad price if all of the features would be supported on gsm networks05:45
Navijohnx, if only the word unpleasant could cover up ugly05:46
acydlordustream has blown up big lately05:46
GeneralAntillesLove the waring label, alterego.05:46
alteregoacydlord, "unbreakable"? It's glass :P05:47
acydlordmine isnt glass, it's one of those weird polymers05:47
elbahh, British cigarette labels05:47
elbI love them05:47
acydlordlike the nalgene bottles are made of05:47
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elbmuch better than our stupid "Surgeon General's Warning:  It's possible that someplace, somewhere, some smoker got sick.  Maybe.  But we're not really SURE about that."05:48
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GeneralAntillesAnybody getting sound on the ustream stream?05:48
jottsilence here05:48
johnxI'm not05:48
GeneralAntillesGood05:48
GeneralAntillesNot just me.05:48
acydlordi love the surgeon generals warning on beer05:49
GeneralAntillesDoesn't start for 10 minutes.05:49
elbI didn't know there was one05:49
rm_youjohnx, GeneralAntilles: http://cs.trinity.edu/~aharwell/100_1566.jpg05:49
rm_you:P05:49
GeneralAntillesHaha05:49
GeneralAntillesNice05:49
GeneralAntillesCan I have the chips?05:49
rm_youonly semi-cheating :P05:49
rm_youlol05:49
acydlordyou can omit the middle line on some of them and it reads "women should not drive a car or operate machinery05:49
rm_youpffft my chips :P05:49
johnxmmm...chips05:50
johnxjust one?05:50
acydlordman, nerdcore rap is so awesome05:52
elbhah05:52
elbMC Plus+ is a good friend of mine05:53
GeneralAntillesacydlord, isn't it though? :P05:53
jottwatching thoughtfix live stream on a n810 is funny ;)05:53
elbthough I must confess I'm not at all a fan of the genre ;-)05:53
jottgives another instance of the "infinity" ;)05:53
jottoh now it's gone :/05:53
acydlordmc plus+ is from az origionaly isnt he?05:53
elbhe is05:53
acydlordi used to watch ustream and jtv feeds on my n80005:54
rghoshanyone have this problem when trying to build something in scratchbox?05:54
rghoshsbox-arm-linux-gcc: /scratchbox/compilers/host-gcc/host-gcc.specs: attempt to rename spec 'cpp' to already defined spec 'old_cpp'05:54
acydlordcant say that i have05:57
NaviI haven't.05:58
GeneralAntilleshttp://ustream.tv/channel/thoughtfixs-live-show show starting05:58
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leif__my mo!06:02
Navimay mo!06:03
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rm_youNavi: Hey! Listen!06:27
rm_youNavi: Hey! Listen!06:27
NaviHEY! LISTEN!06:28
GeneralAntillesWatch the show rm_you and be quiet. :P06:28
johnxahaha06:28
rm_you:P06:28
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GeneralAntillesToo bad we didn't get anything on the PowerVR. :(07:04
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Navi:(07:04
NaviCat montage07:05
Navino music :|07:05
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johnxjust hum to yourself...07:05
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acydlordtalkin bout a montage... MONTAGE07:05
GeneralAntillesEven Rocky had a montage!07:09
Naviwhee07:11
rm_youahhh damn07:14
rm_youi had no idea what you guys were talking about07:14
rm_youso i missed it >_>07:14
GeneralAntillesYou deef? :P07:14
rm_youlol07:14
rm_youi was doing other stuff <_<07:14
GeneralAntillesJust review the video later. :P07:15
Navi:P07:15
NaviQuim did a bit of rambling07:15
NaviIt was nice to watch :D07:15
rm_youheh07:15
rm_youwhere can i get the video? :P07:15
GeneralAntillestabletblog.com07:15
GeneralAntilleslater07:15
NaviWait for 'em to edit and post07:15
rm_youkk07:16
GeneralAntillesNavi, that's what you get when the interview isn't scripted. :P07:16
NaviHa, rather than trying to beat GeneralAntilles to the punch, I'm predicting what he says so I can beat him to the second punch07:16
GeneralAntillesGotta give it to Quim for taking the time.07:16
GeneralAntillesHaha07:16
NaviOf course. It's not every day you see corporates waking up early for an unscripted live interview07:17
johnxI couldn't quite understand him for all of that but I did I basically gather that we won't see much more source anytime soon?07:17
GeneralAntillesYeah, I kinda doubt it.07:18
NaviI'm content07:18
Naviof course, I don't own a tablet.07:18
johnxheh07:18
Navioh well :)07:18
GeneralAntillesI noticed the bug for the gpsd version being behind was addressed.07:18
GeneralAntillesleif__, you gonna file on the rest? :P07:18
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GeneralAntillesPeople who say the maemo guys don't communicate just aren't paying attention.07:20
leif__GeneralAntilles, not until I find a way to automatically compare the entire source repo with the /var/lib/dpkg/status file on the device07:20
NaviThey're retarded.07:20
leif__possibly using http://search.cpan.org/~holoway/DPKG-Parse-0.01/lib/DPKG/Parse/Packages.pm07:20
leif__er07:21
leif__the status module, i mean07:21
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leif__but DPKG::Parse i guess07:21
GeneralAntillesMight file one specific to osso-feed-reader for now and make mention that it's not the only example?07:21
GeneralAntillescc quim07:21
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leif__maybe i will, not tonight though07:22
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leif__i'm going offline for now.07:24
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NaviInconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed!07:28
NaviI get that when trying to login scratchbox07:28
Navi>_>07:28
johnxpretty cool07:29
Navioh, shoot07:29
NaviI forgot to add it to my .zshrc07:29
NaviNevermind07:29
johnx:D07:29
GeneralAntillesFail.07:32
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NaviHow does OS2008 have the filesystem set up?08:13
johnxhmm?08:14
NaviMore specifically, where are the lib/include directories?08:14
johnx/usr/lib and /usr/include08:14
johnxI think, at least08:14
johnxyes08:14
Navimmk, thanks08:14
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rm_youif i install LCARS, can i easily switch back/forth between it and my other themes?08:17
rm_youit's just another theme in the list... right?08:17
rm_you>_>08:17
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rm_youif it works like that, then i can install it for testing08:20
Tama^2yes it's just another theme08:21
rm_youk08:21
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Tama^2just exxxtremely cool and nerdy08:21
Tama^2xD08:21
rm_yousomeone on the forums said something about the sounds from LCARS overwriting the default ones... is that still the case?08:21
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Tama^2no AFAIK08:22
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, just install the main part08:23
GeneralAntillesdon't install extras or sounds08:23
GeneralAntillesThen you can cycle easily enough08:23
GeneralAntillessome things wont be 100%08:23
rm_youk...08:23
GeneralAntillesOr you could also install sounds and extras08:23
GeneralAntillesa remove/reboot will clear them out08:23
GeneralAntillesPeople on the forums are retarded.08:24
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rm_youlol08:30
rm_yousleep time <_< bbl08:30
GeneralAntillesI replaced the iconset on my LCARS N800 with the LCARS icons and they work great.08:31
GeneralAntilles'night.08:31
rm_youlol ok so ... i just have to figure out how to support theming08:31
rm_youmaybe sometime tomorrow08:31
rm_youthough doubtful08:31
rm_youprobably thursday08:31
rm_youdid a nice code cleanup today tho ;)08:31
* rm_you sleeps08:31
johnx'night rm_you08:32
NaviGeneralAntilles, nerd08:33
GeneralAntillesP'haps.08:34
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kessanyone who has built boost on scratchbox?09:06
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alteregoDid I miss hte interview?09:20
alteregoI guess so ^_^09:21
GeneralAntillesVideos should be going up at some point.09:22
alteregoYeah found it09:22
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alteregoDG is very fidgety :D09:28
GeneralAntillesHa09:29
GeneralAntillesHe had a cat trying to kill him for a large portion of the show.09:29
Proteousinterview?09:30
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|tbb|morning al09:30
Proteousfound the link09:31
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Proteousit's only 11:30pm09:32
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solmumahamorning09:33
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Fang64lol it's 2:47am here09:49
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JaffaMorning, all11:00
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b0unc3good morning11:05
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|tbb|morning Jaffa11:11
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hrwmorning11:14
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MangoFusionmornin' all11:30
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hrwsomeone familiar with maemo input system?11:44
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Mikhowhat input system?12:02
timelyhrw: input method editors:?12:03
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning12:17
hrwre12:21
hrwMikho: hildoninputmethod subsystem12:22
hrwfor example I do not know does list of chars available on Chr+o (n810 hw keyboard) can be edited so with Polish keymap I will get รณ as first12:23
hrwor disable that functionality at all12:23
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hrwin other way then defining Chr as AltGr instead of Compose12:26
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floriangood morning12:38
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felipec'morning florian12:43
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michele_oooh this is nice http://ropermobile.com/products/switchback/12:53
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|tbb|michele_: the price isnt nice (what a poem)13:02
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melmothis it me or is there no wget in chinook ?13:13
melmothLooks to be here:http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/w/wget/ , but apt-get nor apt-cache are aware of it .13:14
lardmanworked for me13:14
lardmando you need to enable red-pill first?13:15
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melmothhmmm, i did not try...I though apt-get did not care about pill mode13:15
michele_I think it is only in the SDK repositories13:15
jkumelmoth that's the sdk repo13:15
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melmothhmmm13:16
melmothwell, will just install it manually then13:16
jkuyou can enable the repo on the device, but be aware that the apps are not tested to work there13:17
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jkustuff like wget will work without breaking anything, no doubt13:17
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Ladi^hi all!13:19
Ladi^after some tuning :)13:19
Ladi^could anyone help me with gstreamer-hantro basics?13:19
melmothjku and all wget lovers..please vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2935 :)13:20
jkumelmoth, no need to just vote. Make sure the package is ready and push it to Extras yourself13:21
melmothsure, i could do that.13:22
melmothactually, it feels a bit weird..if any people with access to the repo can push anything. problem will comes.13:23
melmothi ll test wget and push it if it works ok.13:23
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jkumelmoth, in case you haven't done that before: http://maemo.org/community/application-catalog/extras_repository.html13:24
melmothi pushed some stuff already, but only for the application i had a garage project open (and its dependency)13:26
melmothi alwyas feel trying to push somethig else would not be appropriate13:26
jkuI know, but I guess creating a new project is pretty cheap13:26
melmothi ll see what happen in the bz, if nothing happen for a couple of day, i ll just push it in extar and mention it in the bz.13:27
lardmanjku: bit of a waste to have a project just to repackage upstream source13:27
lardmanmelmoth: just enable redpill and install it like usual13:28
jkulardman, sure, especially when it's in chiook already13:28
jkulardman, but we can't expect N to package everything13:28
lardmanmelmoth: otherwise use curl (or whatever apt-get uses)13:28
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lardmanjku: that's where OpenEmbedded comes in ;)13:29
melmothlardman: i think i ll have no problem installing it, i would just wish it would be there in extra13:29
melmothso i wont have to re install it manually after a reflash13:29
lardmanor mud-builder of course13:29
jkumelmoth, exactly. enabling SDK repository shouldn't be a solution13:29
jkumud-builder may be a good idea...13:30
lardmanjku: there's a problem with deciphering the nvd_data, namely that as we don't know what the internals do, we can't really guess at what structures/data it will save13:31
jkumelmoth, you might want to consider mud-builder13:32
melmothnever heard of it13:32
lardman(or OpenEmbedded)13:32
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jkuhttp://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/docs/workflow.html13:32
melmothhooo13:32
melmothinteresting13:32
MangoFusionhey, reminds me of gentoo13:34
MangoFusionor pkgsrc13:34
MangoFusionor ports13:34
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jkulardman, agreed about nvd_data, I'm just surprised I couldn't find anything (like timestamp or coordinates) there...13:34
jkulardman is there a path from OE to Extras-repo or something?13:35
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lardmanjku: I've no idea how to add stuff to extras13:36
lardmanjku: but I've built a variety of packages, I should just create a feed somewhere and people can use them13:37
jkuso is there a repository for OE/maemo?13:38
lardmanno13:38
lardmanIf someone has some space on a server then I'm happy to create one13:38
jkuthat's the problem -- we need one or a very limited number of basic repos, not just random packages however nice the packaging system13:39
lardmanwell if by random you mean whatevery people want from the OE metadata, then yeah, that could be a problem13:39
lardmanbut realistically a single OE repo will replace many of the small repos people have with their ports13:40
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lardmanas there is not much need for porting then, it's already been done13:40
X-FadeHi all, we are going to do some updates to the maemo.org server, so there will be some outage..13:40
lardmansome ;)13:41
lardmanX-Fade: any idea how much?13:41
jkuX-Fade, you've been doing that already, judging from the state of the wiki13:41
X-FadeDepends on speed of database and speed of typing ;)13:41
lardmanok :)13:41
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jkulardman, OE system is fine by me, I just want the repo to be there before I start encouraging people to do anything else than Extras...13:42
lardmani know13:42
X-Fadejku: Yeah, we started 10 minutes ago. But I thought it would be nice to tell people about that ;)13:42
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jkuX-Fade, yes, thanks13:43
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lardmanwas there anything interesting in ThoughtFix's chat to Quim?13:45
lardmanI just started listening to the recording, but its hard reading about finite difference methods and concentrating on the conversation too13:46
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Blafasellardman: What do you mean with "some space on a server"? What would you need?13:50
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lardmanBlafasel: somewhere to host .debs13:51
lardmanBlafasel: it really depends on how much stuff people want built13:51
BlafaselSo you're talking about what? Web space? A shell?13:52
lardmanBlafasel: webspace is enough, a shell and build machine would reduce the time taken to upload data, but as the maemo version doesn't change too often that may not be a big issue13:53
lardmanso sftp/ftp access13:53
inzlardman, how much space would you need?13:54
lardmantis a good question13:54
Blafaselk.. I can offer webspace/ftp and unlimited (well.. You know the disclaimers for that one) traffic for anything that benefits maemo stuff ;)13:55
lardmanhrw: do you know how large an average OE distro build is?13:55
BlafaselAh, right. inz was quite fast with the youtube stuff as well.13:55
inzBlafa, I don't have unlimited space though13:55
lardmanBlafasel: that would be good; I can't do anything for a month or so though as I'm away on holiday13:56
lardmani.e. away from the interweb13:56
BlafaselHoliday? A month? Dear god, let's trade jobs ;)14:00
Blafaselinz: Same here, space is worse than traffic. But nevertheless it should be possible to offer something14:00
hrwlardman: with rm_work it can take <1GB after build14:01
hrwlardman: during build it depends14:02
hrwlardman: I had 16GB builds even14:02
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wwphi there!14:03
wwpfor the ones who need to edit mp3/ogg tags on they OS2008-equipped tablet, Audio Tag tool is now available (as announced to maemo.org/downloads/2008). feedback is welcome14:03
inzBlafasel, I think the traffic is unlimited (there's no rules, not even guidelines, given), but disk space has a very hard limit14:03
wwpI'm also announcing early packages of Gringotts, the strongbox to store secret keys and so on14:03
hrwlardman: I do not think that you will need more then 100M for feed at start14:04
inzI could do up to about 1 GB14:04
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lardmanBlafasel: :)14:06
lardmanhrw: thanks14:06
lardmanok, so it's doable then, that's great14:07
hrwlardman: OZ 3.5.4 feed took 1.1GB14:07
lardmanhow much of that was opie stuff though?14:07
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hrwlardman: 3.5.1 has 161M, 3.5.2 had 246M, 3.5.3 459M14:08
lardmanyeah, my CF card feeds were ~250Mb iirc14:08
hrwlardman: 112M14:08
hrw242M took upgrades14:08
hrwbrb14:08
lardmanthanks hrw14:08
lardmanBlafasel, inz, I'll have a chat with you chaps when I get back then14:09
lardmanunless someone else decides to set one up in my absence14:09
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lardmanBlafasel: and only 3 weeks, going to take a week when I get back to sort out what I've missed14:10
Blafaselinz: Okay, my space is limited only by the harddisk in that machine (which isn't big at all, but > 1 GB is easily possible ;-) )14:11
lardmanAs hrw said, something like 100Mb would be enough for starters14:12
lardmanand I think 250Mb would be about the maximum needed (in the short term at least)14:12
BlafaselGreat.14:12
lardmanWith that said, my little OE feed, which only contains Octave & Gnuplot is ~11Mb14:13
lardmanI'll have to get rid of the dev and dbg packages14:13
hrwand doc14:13
hrwand locale14:13
lardmanyep14:13
lardmanno locales in there14:14
lardmanbut people may actually want the dev and dbg packages, oh well14:14
lardmanhave to keep dev, just in case people want to use these packages to hack in scratchbox14:14
hrwscarybox...14:15
lardmanyeah, but people are used to it now14:15
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wwpbbl14:18
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|tbb|wwp:  thanks will try it later, many ppl wanted that now they can get it ;)14:22
wwp:)14:23
TobotrasAnybody got a _working_ URL for GPE f/chinook?14:25
|tbb|wwp:  is it written by yourself or is it ported ?14:25
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felipeclardman: have you tried sb2?14:30
feruloey ey felipec how is it going?14:30
lardmanfelipec: is that the default for chinook?14:34
lardmanfelipec: I don't have a problem with scratchbox, just with having to build lots of packages by hand to get anything done14:35
jkulardman, no, sb2 is still fairly broken14:37
lardmanwhat has changed to make it better than sb1?14:37
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jkulardman, it's quite different -- resembles other cross dev systems more than sb1 in many ways14:42
jkuat least using it does, I'm not familiar with how it really works14:43
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jkuas an example; building stuff means running "sb2-init" and then "sb2 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot"14:45
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felipecjku: sb2-init is the equivalent of creating a sb1 toolchain14:45
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jkuyeah, figured as much14:46
felipecjku: once you have that it's just "sb2 foo"14:46
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felipecIMO it's a great improvement over sb1, but I haven't yet managed to work with any Maemo SDK14:47
felipecon sb214:47
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johnxsb2 had some serious issues with apt-get when I tried it a week or so ago14:50
johnxit looks *really* nice though14:51
Naviheh14:51
johnxIt's hard to overemphasize how much I'm looking forward to it14:51
johnxan end to building things for debian in qemu...14:52
pupnik_nice, nfs from vmware on the same box is basically as fast as local disk14:52
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jumpulajohnx: which kind of issues?14:53
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johnxI don't remember specifically but basically apt-get couldn't update properly14:53
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johnxI did confirm it with someone in #scratchbox at the time, but I don't remember specifically what wasn't working now14:54
jumpulaok14:54
jumpulaand it was the emulation mode? :)14:54
Navidoes anyone know where to get sources for icu-config for building?14:54
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johnxjumpula, yes. maybe it's even fixed by now?14:55
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hrwNavi: its libicu14:55
Navimmk14:56
johnxNavi, if it's libicu, then I think you get the source from ibm14:56
jumpulai think there's a new tag from last couple of days in the version control system. but i'm unsure wheter it'll fix your problem.14:56
Naviit's off of ic-project.org14:56
Navis/ic/icu/14:56
infobotNavi meant: it's off of icu-project.org14:56
johnxI'll check it in a bit, trying to get a recent webkit-gtk compiling in scratchbox...14:57
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felipecjohnx: you could even try to fix it yourself :)14:57
NaviHa14:57
felipecthe code is really clean14:57
NaviI've been trying as well.14:57
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johnxinteresting, did you run into a problem with "m_url not declared in this scope"?14:58
johnxor I assume you're hung up on some icu problem?14:58
NaviI stop it when it complains about icu-config14:59
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johnxI seem to remember that problem a couple days ago...but now I have a new version of webkit and a different problem14:59
johnxif I fix my problem I may even see the icu-config problem again...15:00
NaviI cloned the svn yesterday.15:00
johnxah15:00
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NaviI wish I had a tablet to test on so I wouldn't have to compile everything _twice_15:02
Navi>_>15:03
johnxcompile things twice?15:03
Navilooking for the future15:03
johnxI'm happy to test binaries if you want15:04
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johnxI have a veritable assortment of ARM machines here :)15:04
Naviwe'll see15:05
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|tbb|hey johnx,  could u help me shortly15:17
johnxsure15:18
inzNavi, well, I compile some things three times just to supports os2006, 7 and 815:18
|tbb|trying to get internet over an usbnet connection on my tablet15:18
|tbb|ssh into tablet via cable  works15:19
hrwNavi: use qemu arm emulation?15:19
hrwI test most of arm stuff in qemu15:19
kikkaheya.15:20
hrwNavi: and as maemo does not use armv6 iinstructions it can even be old qemu15:21
johnx|tbb|, what OS is the desktop/laptop running that the tablet is plugged into?15:21
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Takwhee15:22
alptimeless: hey, there is a thread i cc'ed to maemo-devel about the FOUC problem, would be fascinated to hear a mozilla opinion15:23
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wwp|tbb|: I just did the port and packaging to maemo15:23
wwpmust go away now, bbl15:23
Navihrw, I have the latest stable qemu15:24
Navihrw, do you compile on a Celeron as well?15:25
hrwno15:25
NaviI do :P15:25
hrwNavi: athlon64 x2 or pentium mobile15:26
* pupnik armed with coffee, takes up the fight with dosbox15:26
hrwNavi: and I do not build maemo stuff15:26
NaviAw :P15:26
johnxI built on ARM natively until I realized that qemu-system-arm was faster than the real thing...15:27
NaviLol...15:27
NaviGod damn.15:27
NaviFailed15:27
hrwI do not understand people which do arm builds on arm or qemu/arm ;D15:27
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hrwbut then I hear scarybox stories...15:28
|tbb|johnx: im running ubuntu feisty15:28
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inzjohnx, how slow is your ARM build machine?-)15:29
johnxI have two, an armv6tje (aka n800) and an armv5te (aka zaurus c1000)15:30
johnxthe biggest speed increase I get from qemu is probably RAM and disk I/O15:31
hrwjohnx: on which host you run qemu?15:31
johnxathlon 64 3000+15:32
johnxusually niced to +5 since it's my desktop...15:32
hrwI prefer c7x0 then qemu on my desktop15:32
hrwfor testing guis15:32
hrwwhole systems test on qemu as it is easier ;D15:33
johnxI'm happy to test stuff on my C1000...USB host is a wonderful thing :)15:33
johnx|tbb|, what problem are you having?15:36
johnxcan you ping your desktop from the tablet?15:36
|tbb|yes15:36
johnxdid you setup bridging or NAT on the desktop?15:36
pupnikhas anyone here found -O2 to be faster than -O3 on anything yet?15:38
pupnikon the OMAP15:38
hrwpupnik: you mean those 2ms?15:38
glass3 was faster on symbian.. on 2.9something gcc pre symbian9.x kernels15:38
glasshmm15:39
pupnikyou're probably right hrw15:39
pupnikthe only big changes i saw so far were selecting arm1136j-s15:39
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hrwglass: 2.95 kernel is obsolete15:40
TakI would say -Os is generally the way to go15:40
hrwpupnik: arm1136js + -mvfp will be best15:40
glasshrw: yes, but still, pre symbian 9.x stuff is compiled on oooold gcc15:40
Takif you're going to build with vfp, please also build a version without, at least for os200715:40
pupnikok15:41
hrwTak: s/os2007/770 you mean?15:41
* hrw -> afk15:41
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|tbb|johnx what to do  to do it?15:42
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johnxuse this as an *example* to put in your /etc/network/interfaces on your desktop: http://pastebin.com/m46faa8b415:42
Dregz1qw eq215:42
Dregzoops srry15:42
|tbb|johnx i allready done that15:43
|tbb|ive changed ip from subnet 2 to 1 (192.168.1.0)15:44
johnxdoes that clash with the subnet of your normal LAN?15:45
TakI mean for os2007, /because/ of the 77015:45
|tbb|yeah15:45
|tbb|that was my first problem15:46
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* |tbb| wonders if johnx was fallen into the black hole16:02
johnxI'm here, but I don't have any great ideas16:02
johnxon the n800, check: route, dns, and try to traceroute16:02
johnxon the desktop: check kernel logs for messages from iptables16:02
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michele_how does people manage to use fbreader with the backlight constantly switching off?16:03
jotttcpdump/wireshark may also help16:03
|tbb|how to watch kernel logs about iptables16:03
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johnxtail -f /var/log/syslog16:03
Takdoesn't fbreader keep the backlight on?16:04
jottif logging (and iptables rules) is enabled16:04
michele_no Tak16:04
michele_not even in fullscreen16:04
michele_and I don't find options for that16:04
|tbb|nothing happend when im trying to apt-get update16:05
johnx|tbb|, that's not the best test16:05
ustunozgurhi, I have been having difficulties connecting to AP's other than my own lately. Most of them are free wi-fi spots, like at Burger King. I assume the reason is due to there being draft n routers around, but this is a serious problem (I have a friend who won't simply buy the tablet since the device can't connect at her house because possibly one of her neighbours has a draft-n router.)16:05
johnxtry to ping google.com16:05
TakI thought I recalled people saying it did...16:05
ustunozgurDoes anyone know of a remedy for this?16:05
michele_btw, I also think it could use a good refactoring/streamlining of the preferences dialog16:06
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ustunozguror at least some way to find out the real cause?16:06
TakI find it odd, because it's a pretty simple call to keep the backlight on16:06
ustunozgurI used to connect to the ap at work, but now I can't, it gives a "network connection error" :S16:06
johnxI read through about one screen of text in 2 minutes I guess...16:06
johnxbut you can add longer backlight timeouts with gconf16:06
johnx30 minutes or more is possible16:06
michele_Tak: do have docs handy for that?16:06
ustunozguraren't other people having similar problems? can you connect to public ap's easily?16:08
Takmichele_: g_timeout_add_seconds(59, osso_display_blanking_pause, myOssoContext);16:09
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michele_thank you (I was browsing libosso APIs...)16:09
Takhttp://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/stable/glib-The-Main-Event-Loop.html#g-timeout-add-seconds16:10
Takhttp://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/libosso/group__Devstate.html#gbd82d7b0160e26cd15479f268569732216:10
johnxustunozgur, my top 3 problems connecting to public ap's: 1) not enough signal, 2) MAC filter 3) the "public ap" is actually a misconfigured laptop in ad-hoc mode16:10
johnxBTW, where did you read that draft-N routers will cause that much of a problem?16:11
glassustunozgur: would think that changing channel on your friends own ap would fix something like that16:13
michele_Tak: "rgrep blanking" in the sources finds nothing, so I guess it's not called16:13
* Tak tsks16:13
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ustunozgurjohnx: I read it in itt and maemo bugs.16:19
ustunozgurI will give you the link16:19
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ustunozgurjohnx: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1656 this, for example16:24
ustunozgurIt says n770, but I guess it might be the reason for not connecting to other networks too16:24
ustunozgurthe bad thing is, it is actually the fault of the router of your neighbor, so if your neighbor buys one of those defective(?) routers, there is a danger that your device can go blind!16:25
ustunozgurhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1459 this for example16:26
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ustunozgurbut noone knows for sure. some claim that this is fixed in os2008, I am running os2008, so maybe the problem is elsewhere16:28
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SDuensinMorning.16:34
TobotrasEvening :)16:34
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SDuensin:-)16:35
johnxalmost morning again :D16:36
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NaviPah16:40
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NaviStoopid QT dependencies :/16:40
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felipecq16:41
* SDuensin is being tempted to jump into Maemo coding. So many ideas, so little time.16:41
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NaviSDuensin, If you've ideas, there are places to throw them around as always16:43
Navioh hei, webkit's finally building.  Damned thing.16:43
SDuensinWell, one thing I personally want is an Apple II emulator.16:43
BReady6433hello16:44
Navi:316:44
NaviBReady6433, hai16:44
SDuensinWhaa?  Did I hear "WebKit"?  :-)16:44
NaviNo.16:44
pupnikSDuensin: unfortunately the linux appleII emus are not nearly as nice as the windows ones16:44
Navis/webkit/nothing/16:44
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johnxNavi, it builds?!16:44
SDuensinpupnik - Looked at LinApple?16:44
Navis/webkit's/nothing's/16:44
johnxcan you pastebin your .bb for it?16:45
Navino bot?16:45
pupnikSDuensin: not heard of that yet16:45
SDuensinpupnik - It's basically a port of AppleWin to Linux.16:45
Navijohnx, I never said that it builds, but I did say it was building :)16:45
johnxheh16:45
johnxwell keep me updated16:45
NaviLast time I built it, it took an hour16:45
pupnikSDuensin: damn, now i'm going to try that right now16:45
Navior two16:45
Navijohnx, will do16:45
jottwebkit/gtk build fine here in sbox.16:45
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Navihad to build qt first, sadly16:46
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SDuensinpupnik - :-)16:46
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SDuensinAnother thing I want to build is a cross-platform development kit that's been in my head for awhile.16:46
Navigetting rid of qmake should be a bit of a higher prioraty16:46
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jottNavi: what are you talking about? webkit/gtk uses autocrap for quite some time now..16:47
Navijott, Really? I used the build script, so luls.16:48
NaviWas wondering, shouldn't scratchbox build in cygwin?16:48
jottthough you only need qmake not full qt for building with the qmake based buildsystem16:48
Navijott, yeah, but I took the time to build qt anyways, heh ^_^16:49
johnxNavi, are you building webkit in scratchbox or OE?16:49
NaviScratchbox16:49
jottwell qt is nice so its good to have ;)16:49
Navi:D16:50
johnxah...nevermind then16:50
NaviOE?16:50
johnxyeah16:50
johnxtrying to build it for my zaurus16:50
jottNavi: but still, read http://trac.webkit.org/projects/webkit/wiki/BuildingGtk and http://trac.webkit.org/projects/webkit/wiki/BuildingGtkUsingQMake16:50
Naviah, I see :316:50
NaviI already know how to do it16:50
NaviI've built it for my desktop16:50
NaviI don't keep up as much as I'd like though; the webkit revision on there is a month old16:51
jottwe would still need some nice hildonized ui :/16:52
johnxso, which webkit browser are you trying to build for the tablet?16:52
Navimidori16:53
johnxah, me too16:53
jotti build midori  too :O16:53
johnxI just built it on ubuntu...it is quite fast16:53
jott...and buggy ;>16:53
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NaviMidori is <3. I used to poke the devs a lot about it16:53
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jottstill prepre-alpha ;)16:53
NaviMidori hasn't been that bad16:53
jottatleast when i tried it ~1-2 weeks ago16:54
NaviI have the revision before the .17 and it hasn't failed me.16:54
johnxjott, well the browser situation on the zaurus is pretty bad, so even midori would be nice16:54
michele_wasn't alp toker working on EAL bindings for webkit?16:54
johnxmichele_, that sounds right16:55
Takalp: weren't you working on EAL bindings for webkit? ;-P16:55
Naviluls16:55
michele_oh... alp's here :)16:55
Navigah16:55
SDuensinAnybody work with SDL on Maemo?16:56
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NaviI don't have enough bandwidth to watch the build16:56
TakSDuensin: a bit16:56
* Navi hopes it doesn't error out when I'm not here16:56
NaviSDuensin, pupnik does16:56
* jott also hacked sdl stuff16:57
SDuensinHow does SDL handle the full-screen toggle?  When I request a surface, do I get a full-screen surface or one that fits inside the menus?  (Does that make sense?)16:57
NaviIt fills the screen16:57
Takif you pass SDL_FULLSCREEN, you get full screen16:58
SDuensinSo when the menus are being displayed, what gets cut off?16:58
jottwhich menus? sdl does not provide menus per se..16:58
SDuensinThe system menus.16:58
Navithe top corner of the viewing area will be 0,0 of the sdl window16:58
TakSDuensin: you mean in windowed mode?16:59
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Naviwhatever doesn't fit withinfrom there to the bottom right will be offscreen16:59
SDuensinYea.  Guess I do.  :-)16:59
Takhttp://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html#user-interface-parts has a useful diagram16:59
Navitop left corner, that is16:59
SDuensinAh, ok - that's what I wanted to know.16:59
SDuensinI don't have to resize my surface.16:59
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jottSDuensin: you may consider using http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL-1.2.6/docs/html/sdlwmtogglefullscreen.html17:02
BReady6433het trying to run warzone2100 on my n800 and it tells me it cant run pallete.bin.  is that a repos i have to dl?17:02
SDuensinjott - Thanks!17:02
jott(though i'm fine running all sdl apps in fullscreen mode anyway ;-)17:02
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NaviYeah17:03
Naviall the sdl apps I've came over all fit in fullscreen17:03
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SDuensinWell, I intend for it to run fullscreen, however, if the user pops that little button to get the system menus to come up, I want it to work.17:05
jottthe task manager will also show up in fullscreen mode17:06
jottfrom there you can either kill the app or go to your home screen or anywhere else ;)17:06
SDuensinPerfect.  :-)17:06
SDuensinNow I'm even more wanting to play with it.17:07
NaviGoes ahead17:07
NaviA D17:07
Navis/D/winnar/17:07
infobotNavi meant: A winnar17:07
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Takheh, there's no way to get the "home" button NOT to work17:07
jottTak: xmodmap? ;)17:07
NaviTak, off switch?17:07
jott(or the same xlib calls ;-)17:07
SDuensinTak - That's nice to hear.  <G>  I can't break it that way!17:08
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alpNavi: the qmake build is likely to produce bad builds, i'd recommend using the autotools build17:13
alpwebkit for maemo isn't quite ready for prime time yet, but things are moving fast now17:14
* Navi shrugs17:14
Navitoo late :P17:14
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BReady6433ok little confused.  how do you find out which repository pallete.bin would be in?17:19
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Takyou probably could break it, but it would require determination17:21
SDuensin:-)17:22
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ligerzero03Hi17:28
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Takhello ligerzero0317:30
ligerzero03I installed a program in os2006  but it doesn't show in the menu17:30
ligerzero03how to find it?17:30
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Takwhat program?17:31
hrwwhat program?17:31
ligerzero03fce17:31
ligerzero03nintendo emulator17:31
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Navifceu is a command line program.17:32
Takligerzero03: install xmaeme as well17:32
ligerzero03does that bring it back to gui?17:32
ligerzero03Well see i'm having problems with some of the repositories.17:32
Takxmaeme is a GUI for fceu and other emulators17:33
NaviI mean, it needs to be run from xterm17:33
Navixmaeme is a frontend for it17:33
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* Tak grumbles about lazy fceu maintainer17:34
Navi:317:34
NaviI'm unsatisfied with everything. I _must_ be on the bleeding edge :D17:35
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mwaldronlol17:35
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ligerzero03I have a problem with teh repositories where eventually it will say that it can't refresh teh list17:38
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johnxligerzero03, look in the log in application manager to see which repo is failing to download a Packages file17:39
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Takwhat does it show in the log?  Menu->Tools->Log17:40
BReady6433reinstalled warzone and got it to work17:40
ligerzero03I'm looking17:40
BReady6433incase anyone gets the pallete error17:40
ligerzero03syas17:41
ligerzero03W: Couldn't stat source package list http://maemo.org.br mistral/main Packages17:42
ligerzero03*says17:42
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Takprobably you should remove that one from your repository list then17:42
ligerzero03a lot of the general repositories have that problem though17:43
ligerzero03so I can't get apps17:43
ligerzero03I tried to install xmaeme and it failed17:43
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ligerzero03but I don't have a product id so I can't reflash the os17:43
|tbb|anyone knows how smoth the playback of youtube videos on iphone  is (native)17:43
hrwligerzero03: os2006 is forgotten by many17:43
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hrwligerzero03: MAC address of wifi card is product ID17:43
johnx|tbb|, well it has a native youtube app17:43
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|tbb|we too ;)17:44
ligerzero03It's odd, I put in the mac address and it said it was invalid.17:44
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mk8sorry for my stupid question ... I setup my development envidonment ... but when I try to execut armel binary I got this error message: "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-eabi-sb2: No such file or directory"17:44
mk8can anyone help me?17:44
|tbb|or sort of17:45
hrwligerzero03: 770 product id?17:45
ligerzero03Yeah17:46
hrwthen read /msg ;D17:46
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Takligerzero03: try downloading and installing http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/mistral/free/x/xmaeme/xmaeme_0.10-1_armel.deb directly17:49
ligerzero03It finally installed17:49
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ligerzero03Now where would I get 2007HE?17:49
Takhttp://os2007on770.garage.maemo.org/17:50
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|tbb|so how smooth the playback is on youtube videos through iphone (with the videos, before they get converted)17:50
ligerzero03Who here runs 2007HE?17:51
rm_you_yes, who here runs 2007HE?!17:51
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dpb_I run an older version of it, but I never use my 770.. :)17:52
rm_youdpb_: you have it near you now?17:52
ligerzero03Nice17:52
ligerzero03how does it run?17:52
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dpb_rm_you: nope17:53
rm_youdamn :/17:53
lardmanre17:53
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dpb_as I said, I never use it.17:53
dpb_it ran fine when I did use it17:53
rm_youanyone else have a 770?17:53
ligerzero03I do17:53
lardmanme too17:53
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rm_youi need the contents of /proc/component_version17:53
zoranrm_you, I have 770 and gregale, what is not you are looking for17:53
rm_youpreferably on an n770 in both os2006 and os2007HE17:53
lardmandon't have it with me I'm afraid17:54
rm_younot sure if there is a difference17:54
rm_youbut it would be nice if there was, actually17:54
lardmanis there a kernel version?17:54
lardmandifference17:54
rm_youpossibly17:54
zoranI think not17:54
rm_youbut i'd rather rely on component_version17:54
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lardmannah, on my N810 it only has product, hw-build & nolo17:55
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lardmanyou could parse /proc/version17:55
rm_youlardman: those are what i need :P17:56
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rm_youzoran: do you have your n770 with you?17:56
|tbb|anyone using the wayfinder application in full version (means licenced)17:56
zorannot in this moment17:56
rm_youk :/17:56
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zoranand it is just 770, as I know  :)17:57
TakI use 2007HE17:57
rm_youhabit >_>17:57
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rm_youTak: ah yes... thats right17:57
rm_youwant to help me out and post your /proc/component_version ?17:57
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Takproduct SU-18 hw-build 1602 nolo 0.9.1417:59
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lardmanrm_you: what are you trying to do?18:00
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rm_youlardman: my program decides what hardware it's on and does different things18:01
lardmanhttps://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libvo/vo_nokia770.c?root=mplayer&view=markup   static int check_nokia_device_type(char *device_id)   might be worth a look18:01
rm_youi base it off the "product" in the /proc/component_version18:01
rm_youah18:01
rm_youit might :P18:01
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lardmanlooks like ssvb uses /proc/cpuinfo string18:01
rm_youhrm18:01
rm_youwell18:01
rm_youcomponent_version is easy enough18:02
rm_youSU-18!??!18:02
rm_youseriously?18:02
rm_yourandom18:02
TakI am total serial.18:02
hrwrm_you: use cpuinfo18:02
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rm_youhrw: i could... but i've yet to see how component_version doesn't work, or how cpuinfo would be better in any way18:03
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hrwrm_you: cpuinfo is present always as this is part of kernel mainline. component_version is nokia thing18:04
michele_the interweb has broken18:04
zoranroumors are that the kernel is much the same18:04
rm_youhrw: but my applet ONLY works on nokia hardware :/18:04
hrwzoran: but machines are not18:04
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zoran770 for gregale and he18:04
hrwrm_you: why you need to check hardware version?18:04
rm_youfor my backlight applet18:04
rm_youeach hardware version has specific details about either what levels it can do or how the change is performed18:05
hrwrm_you: hw version as 'n810 0805' is different to 'n810 0806'?18:05
rm_youi use "product"18:05
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hrwso not 'hardware version' but machine name18:06
rm_youn800 is RX-3418:06
hrwsu-18, rx-34, rx-44, rx-4818:06
michele_I have 0801, btw18:06
rm_youyes18:06
hrw770, n800, n810, unknown18:06
rm_youindeed.18:06
rm_youall i have to do is open that file and read the 16th byte :P18:07
rm_youit's SO unimaginably easy :P18:07
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rm_youthough with the RX-48 in the mix i'll have to grab 16th AND 17th byte >_>18:08
rm_youannoying :P18:08
rm_youbut not really <_<18:08
Tak18 bytes?!18:08
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* Tak head explodes18:08
hrwrm_you: ever heard of strstr() and other string funtions?18:08
rm_youyes18:08
rm_youbut i think this is... slick :P18:08
rm_younot 18 bytes... just the ONE byte, at position 16 :P18:09
* rm_you looks at the Tak-colored splatter covering the walls of #maemo18:10
rm_youfseek(fp,sizeof(char)*15,0); fread(&version,sizeof(char),1,fp);18:11
rm_youdone :P18:11
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rm_youthat just seems... neat :P to me18:11
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ligerzero03So here's an odd question18:13
pupnikbbl18:13
ligerzero03do they make firefox for debian arm based/18:13
ligerzero03and how do I open the zoomed keyboard18:14
_collin_ligerzero03: you basically have ff on the tablet18:14
_collin_it is the same gecko engine18:15
_collin_people even ported some plugins like addblock18:15
hrw_collin_: not under os200618:15
Tak...with 2007HE18:15
_collin_ups out of sync with channel topic18:15
_collin_sorry18:15
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ligerzero03ahh18:16
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rm_youack gotta go to a test18:19
rm_youBBL18:19
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* tony2001 now I have ext2/ext3/reiser/smb support in the kernel =)18:41
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hrwtony2001: 2MB is a lot of space for kernel18:41
mk8again .... sorry for my stupid question ... I setup my development envidonment ... but when I try to execut armel binary I got this error message: "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-eabi-sb2: No such file or directory"18:42
mk8can anyone help me?18:42
tony2001hrw: not sure I get what you're talking about18:42
hrwtony2001: n810/n800 has 2MB flash partition for kernel18:43
hrwits lot18:43
jkumk8, I'm guessing you do not have scratchbox-devkit-cputransp installed. How did you install the SDK?18:44
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tony2001hrw: so?18:45
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hrwtony2001: I am used to Zaurus where limit was 1-1.2MB so we had to strip lot of stuff into modules18:45
BReady6433see you guys later18:47
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tony2001hrw: well, then I definitely don18:47
tony2001't understand why these modules are not included by default18:48
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hrwtony2001: stupid nokia ideas18:48
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mk8jku: I follow the wiki instruction ... I do it some time ago ... so I not able to find the instaction that I follow ...18:52
mk8can you please give me an updated wiki link?18:52
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jkumk8, it's not that well hidden: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html#settingup18:54
jkuhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.0/INSTALL.txt18:54
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mk8thanks .... but IIRC I follow this instruction ..... infact I have other qemu-arm-eab .... but qemu-arm-eabi-sb2 is missing ... :(18:58
tony2001in case somebody needs additional FS support in the kernel, it's here: deb http://maemo.daylessday.org/repo chinook user18:58
jkutony2001, what does it include?19:00
tony2001ext2, ext3, reiserfs, smbfs, cifs19:02
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fysatony2001, how about MD support? :)19:14
TakMonoDevelop?19:14
fysaRAID. :)19:14
MangoFusionanyone know if there is a fusefs package?19:15
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roundeyehey guys19:26
roundeyequick questoin19:26
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roundeyedose the deafault browser that comes on the n800 support flash?19:26
lardmanyes19:27
MangoFusionsurvey says...19:27
MangoFusionyes19:27
MangoFusionactually lardman sounds better19:27
roundeyeso does the 2007 hacker editoin for the 770 have the same browser19:27
* Tak download Family Feud NES ROM19:27
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hrw|gonebye19:28
Takflash is not supported by default on 2007HE browser19:28
roundeyeifis there a way to get flash working on the 770?19:28
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lardmanAnyone here been to Adelaide recently?19:29
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TakI'm not sure - I doubt the 770 has enough horsepower to run any but the simplest flash applications in any case19:31
Taks/horse/gnu/19:31
infobotTak meant: I'm not sure - I doubt the 770 has enough gnupower to run any but the simplest flash applications in any case19:31
roundeyeok19:32
Navi:319:32
MangoFusioni have a solution19:32
MangoFusioninstall vnc19:32
roundeyei have seen it working on some videos on the internets19:32
MangoFusion;)19:32
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Navix forwarding > vnc19:32
MangoFusioni'm being generic here19:33
Naviin performance, rdesktop > vnc19:33
lardmanroundeye: I think there might be a thread about hacking it into the browser on ITT19:33
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roundeyeon tyhe itt wabe page huh19:41
roundeyeill check it out19:41
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* Tak throw new ParseError();19:44
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TakNavi: is that a Zoidberg smiley?19:44
santagadalmoura: hi19:44
santagada:)19:44
Naviit's a wittle kitty smiley19:45
Navi:319:45
lmourasantagada, hi19:45
santagadalmoura: so I don't know what osantana told you, but he said you ran the shootout tests with pypy19:45
ligerzero03So the reload is nice19:46
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santagadalmoura: could you run them with the best performing pypy from http://tuatara.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de/benchmark.html19:46
lmourasantagada, no, with CPython for maemo19:46
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santagadalmoura: but do you have it setup to run with any python right?19:47
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lmourasantagada, AFAIR, yes19:47
santagadalmoura: can you please run it with pypy-c-51425-gc=generation--faassen from that page and mail me the results19:47
lmourasantagada, I'll leave it running tonight, it takes some time :)19:48
lmouraok?19:48
santagadaand with normal cpython so we can compare19:48
santagadalater I will bug you again if the pypy guys like the idea of having it run as part of the benchmark run19:49
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santagadalmoura: big thanks man19:50
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lmourasantagada, quick question, where can I find that pypy version? (any branch?)19:52
rm_youGeneralAntilles: lol19:52
GeneralAntillesI win. :P19:53
rm_youby 4 minutes <_<19:53
santagadalmoura: uhmmm let me see if there is a precompiled version anywhere19:53
rm_youit took me a while to look up the presence.desktop file location19:53
GeneralAntillesMight as well be 4 years!19:53
rm_youlol19:53
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santagadalmoura: do you know how to build pypy?20:00
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lmourasantagada, I did it with 1.0 some time ago20:01
santagadalmoura: ok then20:02
santagadalmoura: svn co http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/dist pypy-dist20:03
lmourarevision 51425?20:03
santagadano no20:04
santagadatrunk should be ok20:04
santagadahttp://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/getting-started.html#translating-the-pypy-python-interpreter20:04
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santagadabut pass -gc=generation --faassen20:05
lmouraok20:06
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santagadalmoura: uhmm i think you need also --allworkingmodules20:12
BReady6433hey guys how do i reg my nick to nameserv?20:13
NaviHeh, message nickserv20:13
BReady6433lol you laughing because of my newb qyestions?20:14
* bhearsum wonders how to completely remove a scratchbox installation -- even as root i get permission denied errors20:14
BReady6433thanks btw20:15
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santagadaBReady6433: you want to register this beautiful nick?20:15
santagada:D20:15
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roundeyei was unable to find the howto on getting flash to work on the 77020:20
roundeyemaybe one of you guys could help me out by pointing me in the right directoin20:21
mgedminI may be missing some context, but flash works out of the box on the 77020:21
mgedminthe problem is that it's flash 7, so no youtube20:21
Takit doesn't work out of the box on 2007HE20:22
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BReady6433there was a thread on itt about putting flash 9 on the 77020:23
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roundeyewas it on itt web site?20:43
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* Cptnodegard is happy with self ^^20:49
Cptnodegardhttp://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/?action=view&current=HPIM0620.flv20:49
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BTobotrasevening20:54
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smackpotatoroundeye: there is directions and links to librarys on internettablettalk.com21:22
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MouseyITT, the google of the nseries21:25
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michele_lol21:26
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TakITT, nearly unviewable on a member of the nseries ;-)21:28
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Navilol21:29
michele_that's truly embarassing21:30
michele_especially as it wouldn't take that much work, but reggie doesn't seem interested21:30
NaviWhat's a good screen protector for the N800?21:31
michele_there are countless debates on ITT about that21:31
Navi:P21:31
NaviI'm not a regular, so I wouldn't know.21:32
NaviDon't even have one of those newfangled doohickeys >_>21:32
michele_doowhat?21:32
Navis/doohickeys/thingamajigs/21:32
infobotNavi meant: Don't even have one of those newfangled thingamajigs >_>21:32
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NaviI wonder if I can use my thumb on the stylus keyboard21:34
michele_Navi: google for "fingertip stylus" :)21:34
NaviThose suck21:34
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NaviI hate the feel of it21:34
michele_never tried one21:35
NaviThey feel awkward21:35
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NaviI have pretty slender fingers and would rather see the screen while typing21:38
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MangoFusionbest screen protector? abstinence21:42
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NaviSounds like a poorly made condom.21:43
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MangoFusioni.e. don't use your screen, it will likely never get scratched. bit of a boring option though :)21:44
AmR-eyeamon-ra everyone21:44
NaviMangoFusion, :P21:45
AmR-eyeWould you like to read the reveal?21:45
MangoFusionis this some sort of code?21:45
AmR-eyeIt involves biblical figures21:45
AmR-eyeyes or no?21:45
AmR-eyeit must not be given against will21:45
TakI need op in this channel.21:46
AmR-eyeBEGINNITIO REVELATIONEM21:46
michele_Tak: for the boring evenings?21:46
AmR-eyeDECODE BIBLIA21:47
AmR-eyeRevel - Abraham is associated with the Egyptian pharaoh Amenemhat I (translates: amen is the head) who worshiped the god Amun (Amen). Abraham god then be associated with in the Abrahamic religions god as amun, amon, omon, amen and the deity aamon. Abraham/Amenemhet I21:47
jotthey maybe he want to promote a bible app for the ITs :)21:47
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AmR-eyeRevel - Jacob = King Yakubher21:47
AmR-eyeRevel - Moses = Thutmose III21:47
AmR-eyeRevel - David = Psusennes I21:47
AmR-eyeRevel - Solomon = Siamun (translates: son of amun)21:47
AmR-eyeRevel - James = Ptolemy Philadelphus21:47
AmR-eyeRevel - Thomas Judas Didymus = Alexander Helios21:47
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AmR-eyeRevel - Mary Magdalene = Cleopatra Selene II21:47
michele_AmR-eye: stop it21:47
AmR-eyeFINALIZE REVELATIONEM21:47
michele_AmR-eye: now.21:47
Takmichele_: for this21:47
AmR-eyeBIBLIA CHARACTER 121:47
AmR-eyeREVELATIONEM DE CHRISTUS21:47
AmR-eyeRevel - JESUS = CAESARION, Ptolemy XV, King of kings, little ceasar, Isa, Jesus21:47
AmR-eyeThe son of Julius Ceasar / Divine Julius and Clepatra VII / Goddes Isis21:47
AmR-eyeMarried to his half sister at "wedding in cana"21:47
NaviTak, you need op in this channel21:47
TakConsensus achieved.21:48
michele_Tak: I didn't saw it coming21:48
michele_I agree21:48
NaviDamned religious bots21:48
glassbizarre21:48
NaviGo to hell!21:48
jottwe forgot to say "No"21:48
jottas in "it must not be given against will"21:48
* Tak doesn't believe that saying "No" would have helped21:49
* Navi believes bugging a freenode op for a ban might help21:49
AmR-eyeit is a major difference, as free will is a key element21:49
NaviFree will sucks21:50
michele_free will is god's exit plan21:50
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NaviJeebus, bluetooth drains so much energy.21:51
AmR-eyepeace in your hearts21:51
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ligerzero03anyone know how to install flash 9 on the n770 with 2007HE?21:57
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ligerzero03pm me please!21:57
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NaviWill my BP-5L batteries work for the N800?22:04
NaviI have like, three of them.22:05
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BoxOfSnooYep that's the battery it uses22:08
NaviSweet22:08
leo2007`where to buy spare batteries for n810?22:11
NaviA few different places22:13
GeneralAntillesThe intartubes.22:14
NaviThe ultraslim looks like it's insanely hard to get used to22:14
NaviHi GeneralAntilles22:14
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konttorihey, what was the file to modify to remap keyboard?22:28
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wwpkonttori: the rx-44 thing?22:30
jottkonttori: /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 or what?22:31
konttoriI suppose that then22:31
konttoriah. cool.22:31
* konttori goes to check it out22:31
jottyeah tweak it! the keyboard so much unused key combinations :)22:31
BTobotrasAnybody uses xterm and configured additional control keys on key panel?22:32
Mouseyi tried to put | on the key panel22:32
Mouseyit puts it, but doesn't print it when i click it22:32
MouseyFAIL!22:32
wwphmm packages for userland must show user/* (where * is Utilities or whatever). what about packages like system libs?22:33
* Mousey cries22:33
jottfor | you have to set the value to "bar"22:33
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Takwwp: they can be in whatever group, but they won't be directly installable via the App Manager if they're not in user/whatever22:33
wwpTak: yes.. but apps that have deps (libs). those libs could be "unvisible" from the user list but still be installed by the deps mechanism, no?22:34
jottand for F-keys you can use "Escape, n" for Fn22:34
TakYes.22:34
wwpTak: then I wonder, what's usual for non-user libs? libraries/blah or what?22:35
Takjust blah22:36
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wwp;))22:36
jottwwp: debian/ubuntu uses "Section: libs" and "libdevel" you should go for that ;)22:37
mwaldronquestion on os2008 wifi icons if anone has sec. I know the normal one looks like, and the Wep one with the padlock in it. I assume the WPA one is the icon with 3 keyholes in the padlock. What is the icon with a dot above the strength indicator? is that to denote adhoc peer to peer?22:38
GeneralAntillesYes.22:38
mwaldroninteresting22:38
mwaldronso someone in my company has a laptop in adoc with an SSID of "FreeInternet" aimed at our boardroom.22:39
GeneralAntillesYeah, Windows likes to recreate ad hoc networks it connects to.22:39
Takwinxp PCs accumulate adhoc net...yeah22:39
GeneralAntillesIt gets nostalgic or something.22:39
mwaldronnice22:40
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||cwmwaldron: yeah, there are several of those adhoc names going around22:40
||cwthey just need to delete the profile22:40
||cwthough I've always wondered, if you join the adhoc and had a dhcp server running, would you then have full access to all pc's on it?22:41
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myrendo recent webkits have SVG support?22:43
mwaldronyeah, if i find the offending machine22:43
GeneralAntillesShould.22:43
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Takit seems to me that, even though they're advertising the adhoc network, usually they don't allow connections22:44
mwaldronit allowed me to connect to it, gave me an ip, but no routing22:44
Takhell, winxp can barely connect adhoc under the /best/ circumstances22:45
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fysanice, evince cbr/cbz support works..23:15
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lcuk_3in linux is there a way to copy all executable files in a folder to somewhere else (in windows its *.exe or *.dll) linux doesnt have extensions to help..23:24
lcuk_3or is this the reason why people have a bin folder?23:25
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wwpand the x flag23:26
wwpbut what makes something executable is not its file aspect, but its file contents23:26
lcuk_3ding, excellent thanks wwp23:26
wwpan exec could miss the x flag, or a non-exec has it23:26
lcuk_3its not that, im just compiling up tiny examples and wrote a tiny script to make/scp/execture the primary executable i just built.  i didnt want to have to change it for every tiny project i test23:27
wwpok23:28
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lcuk_3so i will simply filter to those with x perms and it should work nicely :)23:28
lcuk_3incientally, is there a way to get the makefile deploying and running?23:28
noceliclcuk_3: and if that fails, "file" command is your friend23:29
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lcuk_3filetype ident checker...nice - like an antivirus scanner - checking for signatures inside :)23:30
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pupnikasdoih23:43
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pupniknpaspfnapsfnpnpnasfpnaspfnp23:46
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lcuk_3pupnik, you got gramlins or a norty kitty?23:52
lcuk_3e23:52
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pH5whoever you are, please stop walking over pupnik's keyboard23:53
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GeneralAntillesHa . . . cat's. There's one here trying to dial Gizmo from my N800. <_<23:59
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