IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-01-29

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shackanpeople, nokia acquired trolltech, comments?00:47
zerojayGood.00:48
GeneralAntillesSee ITT00:48
zerojayHopefully we can get rid of GTK finally.00:48
GeneralAntillesSomehow I doubt it. ;)00:48
zerojayWebkit comes built into QT 4.1 also.00:48
zerojayWould make a web browser easy and much less resource intensive.00:49
Takugh - if qt were the only option, I'd stop developing00:49
zerojayThat's too bad because GTK's really horrible... and I also don't like developing when every minor version is a major binary break.00:49
shackanGeneralAntilles: are there "official" positions or ITT ?00:49
zerojayNothing's stable.00:49
GeneralAntillesNo, but there aren't any here, either.00:50
shackan*on00:50
shackan:(00:50
zerojayI can say authoritatively that my position is my OFFICIAL position. :)00:50
GeneralAntilleszerojay, GTK vs Qt seems to be a nicely polarized debate.00:50
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shackanit's an endless, pointless debate, really00:51
zerojayGeneralAntilles: It is, but only among those that think that QT is still proprietary or haven't touched it.00:51
GeneralAntillesDoesn't seem that way to me.00:51
zerojayAs a programmer, it makes your life so much easier.00:51
zerojayThe only real downside is that it's mainly C++... so your code will take longer to build, but that's not too big a deal.00:52
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zerojayYou don't have to worry about major technology changes coming out of the blue.00:52
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zerojayGTK seems to change major portions every other release.00:53
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zerojayA month after a GTK release and suddenly the next version comes out and everything's broken all over again and you have to run around and fix it again...00:54
zerojayYou just lose soo much time on that crap.00:54
fysaI don't know, I've seen it on both sides of the fence.00:55
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fysaWe need a universal GUI standard that Gtk and Qt can both 'interpret' :)00:55
zerojayI got tired of the whole dance... every month or so "here's a new library to do what you did before with this other library"... and then the month afterwards it gets completely scrapped yet again for something else.00:55
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zerojayWhat we saw when we went from 2007 to 2008 and everything was incompatible?00:57
pupnikcompetition does also have benefits00:57
zerojayThat's nothing.00:57
zerojayJust wait.00:57
zerojayAnd you can bet your bottom dollar that it will end up happening to us again with 2009.00:57
zerojayNot through any fault of Nokia's either.00:57
zerojayBecause it's the same thing that's been happening with GNOME over and over and over again.00:58
fysapupnik: you ever tried that esd patch for snes9x?  I have the alsa-oss deb built but have not tested it on my device yet.00:58
unique311http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6130671439814482986&hl=en   qt coverflow alternative..00:58
fysathe linux desktop is in perpetual infancy.00:59
unique311even i got it to do fullscreen and mapped a key.00:59
GeneralAntillesHa00:59
unique311i vote for the QT00:59
unique311lol00:59
GeneralAntillesWhat's keeping us from having it both ways?00:59
pupnikhttp://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/27362  maybe that  would help fysa00:59
GeneralAntillesQt and GTK can live together on the same system, right?00:59
zerojayYes.00:59
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zerojayThough on the tablets, it makes no sense.00:59
pupnikyes01:00
zerojaybbl01:00
VeggenGA: but on limited-resources-devices like these, you *really* want to avoid using them at the same time per default.01:00
pupnikthat pictureflow looks really good01:01
VeggenGA: limited the amount of shared libraries needed to be loaded simultaneously is a priority.01:01
fysaour environment is already on the edge of too heavy.01:01
unique311slow right now.01:01
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fysabut it will be cheaper for nokia to just gve us a 600MHz device with 256MB RAM ;)01:02
* GeneralAntilles likes that idea.01:02
glasshehe01:02
pupnikkde is too slow pn my p3 950mhz01:02
glassgive it 12 months01:02
unique311600, why not 1Ghz01:02
GeneralAntillesI'd take a mm or two of thickness for better battery life/performance, too.01:02
GeneralAntillesunique311, battery life.01:02
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glassthen one could even make an educated guess what nokia is really going to do with tt01:02
unique311make it a little chunkt01:03
unique311y01:03
glasswider device range would be good01:03
glassfor maemo01:03
pupnikglass++01:03
GeneralAntillesDefinitely.01:03
GeneralAntillesI'd take a largish keyboardless model with lots of internal storage myself. ;)01:03
GeneralAntilles+reasonable gaming controls.01:04
fysaI want thinner, wider and same height01:04
unique311so with diablo and then the following os...anyone think QT4 will make an official appearance on the device01:04
glassGeneralAntilles: i'd take that too01:04
fysaunfortunately it looks like we may be stuck at this resolution for some time01:04
GeneralAntillesSize reduction from the N800 really doesn't appeal to me at all.01:04
glassunique311: i don't think qt will make an appearance in a year on anything nokia01:05
fysait's not a horrible resolution01:05
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GeneralAntillesfysa, with Mylo 2's insane dpi, I wonder if Nokia might consider pushing it up to 1024xwhatever.01:05
fysabut I would like to see the same ppi/dpi but with another 200 of width01:05
glassi'd like there to be good fast scaler in hw too01:06
fysaanyway01:06
glassto go along with emus and those gaming controls i'd wish01:06
fysabetter get back to work before I enter dreamland for good ;)01:06
fysabbiab01:06
jeff1fThe screen on the Sony UX is a great size and res01:06
kupesoftI got aircrack working with a usb dongle ;p01:07
kupesofton an n80001:07
pupniknice01:07
pupnikwhat chipset01:07
blahdeblahDoes anyone know whose cage i can rattle to get https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1896 fixed?  This inability to download anything in maemo extras is starting to get on my nerves!01:07
|tbb|kupesoft, with usb powered hub?01:07
GeneralAntilles6.5" diagonal I believ, fysa.01:07
johnxtoo bad the rest of the sony ux is a brick01:08
pupnikan 'old person' tablet with less dpi would be good too01:08
GeneralAntillesHaha01:08
johnxproper font scaling would be nice01:08
GeneralAntillesold people. . . .01:08
fysaI would like a device with a screen that goes to the edge, then you can buy four and stack them for a larger screen ;)01:08
GeneralAntillespupnik, that's a bad idea.01:08
GeneralAntillesBetter to just have a little resolution independence. ;)01:08
johnxthe problem is that every program assumes it's running on a 96dpi screen and the GUI layout isn't flexible enough01:09
fysacarry one in each pocket01:09
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GeneralAntillesPut them together and you turn into Darth Maul, fysa? :P01:09
GeneralAntillesI'd like to see the N810 branch off into an E-series sort of deal—keyboard, low storage, small01:11
GeneralAntilleswhile the N800 stays with the N-series as keyboardless (maybe), lots of storage, and larger.01:12
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johnxbut where does that leave the clamshell/tablet styled Nxxx that I want? :P01:15
kupesoft|tbb|: Yup01:15
kupesoftpupnik: rt7301:15
GeneralAntillesjohnx-series.01:15
kupesoftpupnik: But the aircrack-ng tools are sluggish,01:15
kupesoftto be expected, though01:15
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GeneralAntillesMaybe the E would make a good clamshell.01:17
GeneralAntillesA N-Gage branded model could be interesting.01:17
* Cymor is back (gone 23:44:04)01:18
GeneralAntillesThough that comes with a lot of baggage.01:18
fysawe're still the bastard children for another generation I fear.01:18
johnxheh...I don't know if anything with that naming could ever sell01:18
johnxunless they do a "side talking is cool" campaign or something01:18
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lardman|afknight all01:18
GeneralAntillesI'm afeared of the ITs losing too much of their hacker-appeal in the trip to consumer-appeal.01:19
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johnxGeneralAntilles, I'm not.01:19
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johnxAs long as they run Linux and are "hackable" (ie are mostly open source, come with an x server) I think the Linux-heads will still be interested01:19
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johnxIn fact, except for the annoying closed source bits I'm pretty happy with the way that Nokia has handled the N8x0 as an overall platform01:21
GeneralAntillesSomebody should put together an Open Letter about those bits.01:21
johnxthat might be good...but I don't think it will change anything01:22
fysaI don't think Nokia is going to listen until these devices come out of the backwater and show up as meaningful numbers on their balance sheet.01:22
|tbb|is it know how much battery you will save while running your it in offline mode instead of normal idle mode (not connected and not auto search for wlan)01:22
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GeneralAntillesVery little if there's nothing trying to use Bluetooth or Wifi.01:25
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* GeneralAntilles wants a working soft poweroff mode back.01:26
fysaI was able to install Powerlaunch..01:26
tbfhmm.... no trolltech faq link in /topic?01:26
tbfstrange01:26
fysaand I believe it added soft poweroff to my power menu01:26
fysabut I have no idea how to configure anything else for it yet ;001:26
GeneralAntillestbf, is it really relevant to the GTK-based maemo. ;)01:26
GeneralAntillesDoes it get around the brokenness of soft poweroff, though?01:27
tbfGeneralAntilles: considering nokia's bochum actions? HELL, YES!01:28
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fysaWhat am I looking for?01:28
fysa(or for it not to do, rather)01:28
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GeneralAntillesWake up with touchscreen input.01:29
fysaYou do want it to wake up?01:29
fysa'Soft poweroff' -> screen instantly goes black01:29
GeneralAntilles. . . and, more seriously, do you think anybody has actually had time/information enough to compile an FAQ about it when it was only announced today?01:29
GeneralAntillesNo, fysa.01:29
fysathen I have to touch power to go back on01:29
GeneralAntillesNokia's broken implementation just blanks the screen and breaks some stuff.01:29
GeneralAntillesThen wakes up with touchscreen input when it shouldn't.01:30
GeneralAntillesAh, right, it's working then.01:30
GeneralAntillesInteresting.01:30
fysamy only complaint is that the power menu is still there when I wake it up ;)01:30
fysabut that's because I'm hitting the power button to wake it back up..01:30
GeneralAntillesCan you hold the power button to activate it?01:30
fysajust a tap activates01:30
fysa(on the power button)01:30
fysasorry, not screen tap ;)01:31
GeneralAntilleser, sorry, to activate soft poweroff.01:31
GeneralAntillesRather than wake from it.01:31
tbfGeneralAntilles: well, it's known for over 12 hours know. i would have thought, i am late with asking what that acquisition means for gtk based maemo01:31
fysaheh01:31
fysaholding down power, screen goes blank after 2 seconds..01:31
fysathen wakes up as soon as I let go ;)01:31
pupnikdid you look into the libesddsp thing fysa ?01:31
GeneralAntillesWe're, mostly, just a bunch of internet losers and don't have any ideas about Nokia's inside plans.01:31
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pupniki've built the libraries and esddsp but am getting an error01:32
GeneralAntilless/ideas/information/01:32
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: We're, mostly, just a bunch of internet losers and don't have any information about Nokia's inside plans.01:32
pupnikERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/local/lib/esound/libesddsp.so.0' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.01:32
fysanot yet, pup.  have a few more things to do for work then I will be in ITT land01:32
fysacheck dmesg?01:32
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pupnikholy crap i got the strangest sound on reboot01:34
pupnikmust be the new libesd :)01:35
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kuphi. dia for os2008: http://kup.vdst-aachen.de/dia_0.96.1-1_armel.deb. my first attempt to port an app to maemo01:37
johnxcool01:37
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johnxI'll look at that in a bit01:37
pupnikvery nice kup - people will love that01:39
kuphttp://kup.vdst-aachen.de/screenshot00.png01:39
kuphttp://kup.vdst-aachen.de/screenshot01.png01:39
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lcukbuilding linux apps properly is like making your own lightsabre01:44
pupnikhehe01:44
lcuki still cant get a stable linux ide sorted, but by weekend i will have a jedi robe01:44
glasslinux apps arent bad usually01:45
lcukno, but the ide i have set my heart on needs a version which is source only for the maemo addin to work01:45
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lcukso now im fighting with the stuff ki want the ide to handle so i can build the ide i want01:46
johnxlcuk, which IDE did you decide on?01:46
lcukanjuta for now at least01:46
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lcuk_2there is a maemo project builder and the interface is based on the same gtk code editor and it feels much more like an ide than a jungle (eclipse..)01:48
johnxunderstandable01:48
lcuk_2iso now i am fighting to get it compiled and running with the version that the maemo addin requires and i have figured the ./configure bit and managed the make bit and did the install bit but had a few (i thought minor) files missing and now it wont run01:49
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lcuk_2sbut its progress, at least its stuff i have compiled that isnt running01:49
pupnikholy ffff01:50
pupnikit's not the n810 speakers that are distorted!01:50
lcuk_2so once i am done being sidetracked by a fancy dress custome nightmare i will be doing it all properly, ill let the linux compiling notes sink in for a couple of days01:50
johnxlcuk_2, you're using ubuntu under vmware, right?01:50
lcuk_2810 speakers are really nice01:50
pupnikrunning /etc/init.d/esd restart with new esd gives perfectly clear sound!01:50
lcuk_2i like the sound coming out of them01:50
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GeneralAntillespupnik, now that IS interesting.01:51
pupnikyeah but there is some kind of bug01:51
GeneralAntillesFile a bug on bugzilla?01:51
lcuk_2johnx i think its ubuntu, well xubuntu.  its the maemovmware package from the garage01:51
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lcuk_2its xfce01:51
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lcuk_2take a look, is this latest ubuntu? http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/01:52
johnxlcuk_2, I think there are binary debs for anjuta 2.3.101:53
* lcuk_2 wouldnt know his badger from his warthog01:53
|tbb|nite all01:53
lcuk_2i couldnt find them...01:53
lcuk_2nite tbb01:53
lcuk_2i searched the site01:53
johnx'night |tbb|01:53
lcuk_2i searched google01:53
lcuk_2i searched the computer01:53
johnxhttp://anjuta.org/apt/01:53
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johnxlooks like they're on the anjuta site unless I'm confused01:54
lcuk_2::O01:54
johnxfrom the downloads page: http://anjuta.sourceforge.net/downloads01:54
johnxlook for "apt repo" on the page01:54
johnxthe trick to being a linux jedi is knowing when to follow the other guy who already has his light saber put together...01:55
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lcuk_2i thought i had, and i tried adding that as a source, but on the software packages thing in vmware the style of the repo looked different so i added the one below it which included universe01:55
lcuk_2i did this one:01:55
lcuk_2Ubuntu gusty repository01:55
lcuk_2   1. Add deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/robster/ubuntu gutsy universe in your /etc/apt/sources.list01:55
lcuk_2no other sources looked the same :'(01:56
lcuk_2i could hug you john01:56
lcuk_2thank you :)01:56
johnxtest it before you do something so rash...heh01:56
johnxgutsy is probably the right version01:57
pupnikGeneralAntilles: media player is distorted, mplayer is distorted01:57
lcuk_2i did that and refreshed my sources and tried to get it but it just reinstalled 2.201:57
lcuk_2ill just grab the deb (after i have kicked myself)01:57
johnxer...01:57
lcuk_2no john, not your method01:57
johnxwell...ubuntu will warn you about dependency stuff so it's worth a shot01:58
lcuk_2i meant how i went wrong01:58
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johnxI know but the one I pointed you at is for feisty (7.04) not gutsy (7.10)01:58
johnxyou're probably on 7.1001:58
johnxas long as the dependencies resolve you're probably ok01:58
lcuk_2but its a damn .deb file. john, you have overtaken even the mighty google this evening01:59
lcuk_2i am going to johnx everything from now on ;)01:59
johnxheh01:59
johnxI just know more of what I'm looking for (and also I stumbled into the *wrong* repo)02:00
johnxalso, looks like other people are having issues building anjuta as well02:00
johnx"IDE, compile thyself!"02:00
lcuk_2i know that, i managed to sort out a whole lot of problems before hand, but its been good in a way02:01
lcuk_2i had impotus to actually do something and needed to get it done02:01
lcuk_2theres no point in staying blind forever02:01
johnxdefinitely02:01
johnxjust be thankful this isn't 10 years ago :)02:01
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lcuk_210 years ago, the only difference was that you read "complin~1.txt" from some floppy disk you got from the guy down the road02:02
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lcuk_2it is all build from very small blocks but damn they are hidden away for most other dev environments02:03
johnxno, 10 years ago was "Want the latest GNOME 0.54? Then follow these simple steps to compile each package by hand, because no one will package it for your distro in the next 6 months"02:03
johnxI meant 10 years ago in Linux-land02:04
johnxLinux today is positively user-friendly02:04
GeneralAntillesEhehe02:04
lcuk_2yes for the end-end user,m but i had to dive in and understand what to do to get it working02:04
lcuk_2if this had been a paper version it would have notes all over it now: http://www.luv.asn.au/overheads/compile.html02:05
lcuk_2i kept flipping back and forward to it, it was actually quite a nice simple start and helped explain a lot02:05
pupniko... m... g.. the speakers sound so good02:05
johnxyeah, fair enough. gcc hasn't gotten any simpler to use02:06
lcuk_2was "just enough" to get me on the road02:06
lcuk_2pup, mine have sounded good from day 1, whats been wrong with them02:06
pupnikhorribly distorted when playing system sounds and mp3s and movies02:07
pupnikvery quiet and *very* distorted02:07
pupnikfrom the factory02:07
lcuk_2ooer, and what did you change (ill do a taste test)02:07
pupnikbut the esd demon i just built ... when i restart it, it's perfectly clear and painfully loud02:07
pupniksttrange02:08
lcuk_2the only sound problem i have had is that the headphones are almost silent in one ear unless i press the mic/remote button02:08
pupnikhmm02:08
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fysanice02:10
lcuk_2how do i find out which version of linux is on the desktop?02:10
lcuk_2(as in ubuntu version)02:11
johnxsystem -> about ubuntu02:11
johnxah xubuntu02:11
johnxhmm02:11
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lcuk_2cant i open the about applet from the command line (does it still exist)02:12
leandroalhi there. How can I change the wireless access point via programming code in maemo platform? I have the following code (http://paste-it.net/6067) that works perfectly in my laptop, but when use in maemo, the wlan0 interface disconnect but not connect to the new ESSID. Any clue?02:12
johnxthat applet was a gnome thing...02:12
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leandroalthis function, setEssid receives two parameters, the interface and the new ESSID.02:13
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jottlcuk_2: cat /etc/lsb-release02:13
lcuk_2excellent jott, thanks :)  ubuntu 7.10 gutsy02:15
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fysapupnik: so what's up with this volume thing?  you're saying it gets *way* louder?02:16
fysahas anyone tried running amixer/alsa-mixer?02:17
pupnikmuch louder and *clearer*02:17
pupnikimagine hooking a telephone receiver up to a stereo amplifier02:17
fysaless tin/real bass?02:17
pupnikyes02:17
GeneralAntillesSame effect for the N800?02:18
fysainteresting02:18
pupniki'm going to record an example of this02:19
fysamy debian/rules or lintian-overrides must not be setup right or something.  my alsa-oss deb installs but it's as if the "make install" doesn't run.02:21
fysait probably doesn't help that this is the first .deb I've ever really built.02:21
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* Cymor is away: afk02:29
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pupniki can't quite get rid of the distortion.  but the esd startup sound is perfect02:36
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fysait sounds like it's likely still too high?02:37
fysarun mplayer with vol=230 (where 100 is default) to get decent sound02:37
fysaer, I run02:38
fysabut it will clip on occasion?02:38
fysamaybe they tweaked the bass down to deal with rattling speakers?02:38
fysa*shrugs* :P02:38
* fysa goes back to dh_make02:38
Doni^hmm. seems that i was wrong that the rtcommm made my table unstable. it's the damn bluetooth connection that does it.02:39
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Doni^anyone else here with tablet reboots when on the internet thru BT+3G etc?02:39
lcuk_2yoWANRING: the nokia n810 is NOT designed to fix an unstable table02:40
fysahaha02:40
Doni^tablet. :D02:40
Doni^i lolled.02:40
Doni^damn. i myst be tired.02:40
Doni^must even. and my connection lags here. sorry for the typos.02:40
lcuk_2:D heh, so you have table lags02:40
Doni^hah02:41
GeneralAntillesNo, Doni^.02:41
Doni^hmm. it's just weird with the darn n810. bt+3g works well until i idle for a while. after that the keyboard stops working. and usually within 15 secs or so the thing reboots.02:41
lcuk_2i can typo with the bes tof them simple solution: dont idle02:42
zerojayYou're tripping the watchdog somehow.02:42
lcuk_2damn - forgot to delete02:42
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Doni^zerojay: i'm thinking that too. however no clue how to troubleshoot.02:44
Doni^seems that i don't get the same problem using wlan.02:44
GeneralAntillesHave you installed something?02:45
Doni^been doing extensive testing the whole evening. no problems with wlan, had 3 reboots in ~20 minutes using bt.02:45
Doni^yes. that's why i'm thinking to reflash and try with a fresh installation.02:45
lcuk_2did it used to work (or appear to) or have you just started using the bt 3g side of things02:46
Doni^well i have had this thing now for 5 days of which i've been playing around for about three.02:47
Doni^noticed the problem yesterday when i was trying to use it more where i don't have a wlan.02:47
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Doni^googling seems to be tricky.02:51
Doni^damn. i'll just reflash the thing tomorrow and try wo any applications.02:51
Doni^the only suspicious thing i've done was the rtcomm upgrade to get msn etc in the built in IM02:51
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Doni^anyway. going to hit the hay now. almost 3am here. got to be at the office at 9.02:54
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madarhello all, does anyone know if there is a package out there for slocate for 2008 yet?02:54
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johnxrtcomm has been known to cause other problems in the past02:55
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Doni^johnx: i suspect that actually. well i could use pidgin, but the built in thing is a lot nicer02:57
Robot101that was just a bad data file... my fault... it was just causing reboots outright, nothing to do with any bluetooth02:57
Robot101was trying to get the IRC backend to not use the address book so it would go a lot faster02:57
johnxDoni^, there's a gateway on jablet.net that you connect to via jabber (default, builtin) and then it connects to AIM/MSN/Yahoo/etc for you02:59
zerojayjablet.org03:01
zerojayJabber server runs on .org.03:01
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johnxah03:02
johnxbut he'll have to register on jablet.net :)03:02
zerojayNo.03:02
zerojay.org03:02
johnxa03:02
johnxah03:02
johnxok03:02
johnxsorry, .org was taking forever to connect03:02
zerojayRight now?03:02
johnxand .net comes up first in a google for jablet03:02
johnxyes, right now03:03
zerojayWe don't have a web server running on .org.03:03
zerojayAll the web stuff is on .net03:03
zerojayIt's confusing, but you can blame it on Dreamhost for their shitty Jabber server.03:03
johnxwell I was giving him a link to find out about the service... so .net was correct, yes?03:04
* johnx is confused03:04
zerojayYeah.. specifically the forum has the information needed to sign up.03:04
zerojayNot that hard.03:04
zerojayJabber = .org03:04
zerojayEverything else = .net03:04
johnxalright, I'll be more specific in the future...03:05
zerojayAgain, it's because I wanted to give everyone something better than Dreamhost's Jabber server.03:05
zerojayWhich was total crap.03:05
zerojayThe one on .org is one I run myself with all the bells and whistles.03:05
johnxbtw, thanks for the jablet stuff03:06
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zerojayNo problem.03:06
johnxit's the thing that keeps me from being tempted to install scary rtcomm betas :)03:06
zerojayIt's a little sad to see it's not used as much anymore since RTCOMM came out.03:06
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ajturneranyone know if the flasher works under Mac os x Leopard?03:12
ajturnerI keep getting "Bad CPU type in executable"03:12
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petergunnanyone got a BT mouse that pairs with the n800?03:39
dragornThe holux sirf3 one does so fine03:43
kupnokia ld-3w03:44
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johnxpetergunn, I think people on ITT might have but there's still issues making a cursor show up03:45
dragornoh03:46
dragornI read "bt mouse" and assumed you meant the bt gps units which some people call mice or pucks.03:46
GeneralAntillesajturner, run it under Rosetta.03:46
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ajturnerGeneralAntilles: turns out the problem was that Safari was corrupting the download03:47
GeneralAntillesOr that.03:47
ajturnerworked fine in Firefox03:47
ajturnerfrom FF03:47
ajturnernot the best "out of the box"  experience :)03:47
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GeneralAntillesajturner, who said it would be?03:52
GeneralAntillesReally, that's something that most reviews specifically hit on.03:52
GeneralAntillesThe power comes later. ;)03:52
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ajturnerGeneralAntilles: the ads for the N810 definitely don't show enough geeks hunched over a USB cable running terminal ;)03:59
GeneralAntillesThere's always 770Flasher03:59
ajturneranother simple issue is the App Manager - it's definitely aimed at Devs04:00
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ajturnertypical users probably don't care about Version and Size04:00
ajturnerthey'd care more about category04:00
johnxusers might care how much space it takes04:00
GeneralAntilles^04:00
johnxbut actually...devs don't like it either04:00
johnxno one likes it04:01
GeneralAntillesAt least it remembers your position now.04:01
ajturnerI love that most apps also have meaningless titles and the title as description04:01
GeneralAntillesBlame the packagers for that.04:02
johnxheh...well that's bad packaging04:02
ajturnerwhat is the GPS setting for N810?04:05
ajturnerFile or GPSD?04:05
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johnxajturner, is this for maemo mapper?04:06
ajturneryes04:06
johnxtry selecting bluetooth with the bluetooth field blank04:10
johnxthat appears to be the official word from gnuite for now04:12
ajturnercool04:13
ajturnerthat seems to be working04:14
johnxhow's the builtin GPS working for you?04:14
ajturnerwell, I'm indoors ;)04:15
ajturnerstuck it in window04:15
lcddit never worked indoors for me04:18
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ajturneryeah, didn't get a fix04:22
ajturnernot good coverage out of the window04:22
fysaanyone tried building midori/webkit lately?04:22
pupnikGeneralAntilles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRWLqHTioI  here's the difference between N810 normal audio playback and what it can really do04:22
pupnikunfortunately the details aren't really audible in that vid04:23
pupnikbut the volume problem sure is04:23
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fysatry with mplayer?04:25
pupnikthe mplayer sound (gstreamer dspsink) is really crapola in the high-end - probably a resampling issue)04:26
GeneralAntillesWow . . . that's pretty ridiculous.04:28
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GeneralAntillesI wonder if it's as drastic on an N800.04:33
fysawebkitgtk is compiling..04:34
pupnikGeneralAntilles: I can even hear the distortion in the startup sound when the system boots04:34
pupnikevery single sound is badly distorted, and yet that esd testpattern is crystal clear04:34
fysahttp://www.atoker.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/webkit2.png04:36
fysa??04:36
fysawhat happened to that?04:36
GeneralAntillesI think it's still around.04:36
GeneralAntillesNot sure how hard it is to get going04:36
GeneralAntillesor whether the EAL bindings are 100%04:36
GeneralAntillesI don't think there was ever a .deb04:36
fysawouldn't it be faster than microb?04:37
GeneralAntillesDon't have a clue.04:37
alpyeah, ajax benchmarks at around 4.5x MicroB04:37
alpJS a little better than that. gfx at 2x. best to try for yourself though04:38
fysaDafydd and Senko at Collabora have done a great job on the “unstable” 1.3 branch. This is the branch that Nokia is using in the Maemo platform and it can probably be considered quite stable.04:38
fysa:O04:38
fysaMikael Hallendal - Fri, 2008-01-11 15:0904:38
GeneralAntillesMan . . . the OS2007 default theme was an abomination.04:39
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alpfysa: did you try CPPFLAGS="-DMAEMO_CHANGES=1 -DMOBILE=1"?04:40
alpfysa: that will enable Hildon UI support and some of the Android loader tweaks04:40
fysafor webkit or midori?04:40
alpwebkit. i don't know anything about midori04:41
Robot101fysa: that's 1.3 branch is of loudmouth, the XMPP library...04:41
fysadoh04:41
fysa:)04:42
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kenny-yuhi there, I've got a problem running mozilla in maemo (i cannot run it). Hmm... possible to give me some advice? :-)04:42
fysaalp: nice.  not yet, trying this now.04:42
kenny-yuwhen I tried to start it:    [sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/moz1.9/mozilla/obj-dir-browser-chinook-armel/dist/bin] > GRE_HOME=. ./run-mozilla.sh ./firefox04:43
kenny-yuqemu: Unsupported syscall: 26404:43
kenny-yuqemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting04:43
kenny-yu[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/moz1.9/mozilla/obj-dir-browser-chinook-armel/dist/bin] >04:43
alpfysa: ok, there are a bunch of tricks we've developed in recent weeks in preparation for the mobile WebKit SDK. if you need any help, #'webkit-gtk or message me04:43
alpperformance tricks, that is. it's not all merged yet04:44
fysaexcellent, very nice.04:44
johnxkenny-yu, it looks like qemu isn't able to emulate an ARM processor well enough to run it04:45
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kenny-yuhi johnx: Ar? But I've also tried it in X86 without a success..... :-(04:45
johnxwhat error does it give on x86? use pastebin if it's long...04:46
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kenny-yuwait let me re-generate the error for you to see...04:48
kenny-yuOops... this time, /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set.. what value should i assign to?04:49
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johnxsorry, I honestly don't know04:51
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kenny-yujohnx,  Hey, never mind. :-)04:56
kenny-yuit's happy to have your answer already :-)04:56
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kenny-yuhi johnx, just a quick question, do you think I need to switch in CHINOOK_X86 and install a new mozilla separately? because when I did the installation, I remember it was in CHINOOK_ARMEL but not x86....05:02
johnxaaah...yes05:03
johnxI was kind of wondering about that05:03
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johnxkenny-yu, a program compiled for ARM/ARMEL can't be run on an x86 processor without emulation05:04
kenny-yuar, you're right!05:05
kenny-yuthanks :-) then I'll need to compile it once again (using --disable-tests again) in X86 environment, right?05:05
johnxyes05:05
kenny-yuthanks a lot! I'm trying it now05:06
johnxsure05:06
johnxgood luck05:06
kenny-yuthanks :)05:06
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pupniktrying to build osso-esd-0.52  need osso-dsp-headers (osso-dsp-headers-rx-44 or osso-dsp-headers-rx-34)06:48
pupnikmaybe i can just do without it for now06:50
pupniktrying to get esddsp working so we can hack together a solution for OSS programs06:50
johnxbrief googling makes me thing the headers aren't publicly available and not really possible to work around06:53
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pupnikokis06:55
fysafreecraft compiles cleanly06:58
pupniklooks like both alsa and esd provide a kind of frontend to /dev/dsp06:58
pupniknice06:58
fysaI have an alsa-oss deb now that will install the libs, but it doesn't make the /dev/dsp node06:59
pupnikmknod /dev/dsp c 14 307:00
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pupnikbut that seems do disappear after reboot07:04
pupnikdamn it.  would somebody else please do this :)07:07
hfwilkehas anybody heard anything about the the bugfix release of Canola2 that was rumoured to be coming out today?07:09
johnxyou might need to create a rule in udev to make the device07:10
johnxor just put the mknod in an initscript07:10
pupnikah ty johnx07:11
fysahttp://beta.pgdc.com/files/alsa-oss_1.0.14-1_armel.deb07:11
fysathat's the version that doesn't mknod07:11
fysafreecnc++ compiles cleanly07:14
pupnikdid you build it to open /dev/dsptask/pcm3?07:14
fysaalsa-oss?07:15
pupnikyes07:15
pupniki mean that looks wrong07:15
fysaI didn't change it.07:15
pupnikok07:15
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fysathe source included reference on how to access specific pcm using asound.conf07:15
pupnikok there's a fix there somewhere07:16
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pupnikhttp://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/2736207:16
fysaI haven't seen a fix yet07:17
fysabed time07:17
pupnikok laters07:18
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kennyyuhi there07:25
kennyyuI'm trying to reinstall mozilla on maemo, in an CHINOOK_X86 environment...07:25
kennyyubut applying patch gives me error message  (reference instruction can be found in http://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Build/Maemo_Build_Instructions )07:26
kennyyuCan anyone help me? :-)07:26
kennyyuI'm really sorry because I've been making you so much trouble :-(07:26
GeneralAntillesIf nobody replies, kennyyu, it just means there's nobody here with an answer right now. ;)07:27
kennyyuhi GeneralAntilles, thanks ;)07:28
GeneralAntillesI recommend the hours of 0900-1300 UTC.07:28
GeneralAntillesHave you tried googling the error?07:29
kennyyuHmm... I'm not sure about UTC... what is your time now?07:29
GeneralAntillesEST07:29
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kennyyuyes, but maybe I can try to google it once more first...07:29
GeneralAntillesI'm -507:29
kennyyuAnd I'm in Hong Kong, +8, now it's 1.29PM. So when should I approach this channel later? :-)07:30
GeneralAntillesGive it about 5 hours.07:30
GeneralAntillesThe people who are likely to be able to help you are on European time.07:31
GeneralAntillesIt's about 5:00AM for them right now. ;)07:31
kennyyuOh I see. So I shall visit later... Thanks!07:31
GeneralAntillesSure, good luck.07:31
timelyxgood morning cruel world07:44
timelyxdoes notes have an about dialog/07:44
pupnikdunno07:45
timelyxcan you check? :)07:45
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pupnikyes07:51
pupnikit does not, timelyx07:52
pupnikos2008 latest07:52
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timelyxbug 284607:54
timelyxfeel free to yell at the reporter07:54
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VictBC43Hello.. I was wondering this was a channel where someone could ask some general questions about the n800 and BlueTooth GPS compatibility.. if not. is there an IRC channel for n800 owners that anyone knows of?07:57
timelyxthere's no channel dedicated to n800 owners07:57
timelyxwe don't reject people w/ 770s or n810s07:57
timelyxyou're free to ask questions, although it'd be a good idea for you to search the channel logs first07:58
timelyxand it might make sense to search ITT too07:58
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thefoolVictBC43: though I see no reason why your question should be n800 specific. The compatability is at a software level...08:00
pupnik /lastlog mknod08:00
VictBC43well I have just spent several hours with google trying to find out what is a good BT GPS unit to use with the n800.. I am still waiting for my n800 to arrive (ordered it last Friday) so really don't know much about the navigation capabilities that maemo mapper has other than what I have read about on the web in various forums etc08:01
Luriai like my iblue 75708:01
johnxI don't have a BT GPS, but from what I hear: get something with a "SiRF Star III" chipset08:02
Luriabut it is buggy with usb only connections (when BT isnt up); i dont know if thats been fixed08:02
VictBC43I decided to pick up an n800 because I finely decided I needed an upgrade from my Sharp Zaurus, I unfortunately there is not much support for anymore.. even in the opensource community :(  Anyway, I liked the n800 because it runs linux :)08:02
Luriasirf III is good08:03
Luriamtk32 or sirf IIIc is better08:03
Luriawhich zaurus?08:03
johnxalso, see if you can find a thread on internettablettalk.com/forums about GPS stuff that would be a good resource for "works, doesn't work" kind of info08:03
johnxheh...lots of Zaurus users getting N8x0s08:04
Luriamy mtk32 works fairly well in nyc08:04
VictBC43I was looking and ordered an Holux GBslim 236 online on the weekend.. but upon further study it seems many people have been experiencing problems with the BT portion failing after a while.. :(  So I may just send it right back without even opening it.  I have read many good reviews on the I-737.. and not been able to find any major complaints about it so far..08:05
Luriaso does my sirf 3, but power reqs are higher, unless you can find IIIc which i hear is better08:05
derfI'm impresed my MTK gets a lock in the city, but it's got some serious multipath problems.08:05
Luriaits not multipath thats the problem, its warmup aquistion.08:06
VictBC43Oh.. I have a SL-5500 zaurus with openzaurus and opie running on it :)08:06
Luriai find my holux better than the iblue in that respect08:06
derfIt seems to work okay so long as it's not moving.08:06
Luriaex 5600 user here.08:06
VictBC43they were such great devices.. but alas.. I think there time has come.. and gone :(08:07
johnxhave a 5500 (stored until 2.6 gets better), a C1000 (still in use) and an N80008:07
VictBC43anyway.. back to the topic at hand :)08:07
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Luriai nearly bought the -c3200, but went with the n80008:07
Luriai like my sd/sdhc slots :-)08:07
Luriabut i still miss cf slots, they beg for hacks08:08
johnx*cough*newest zaurus kernel supports sdhc*cough*08:08
johnx:D08:08
Luriamy zaurus no longer supports charging *cry*08:08
johnxoh noes :( my 5500 is plenty beaten up but most of it still works.08:09
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johnxanyways, let me see if I can dig up the BT GPS my friend uses with his N80008:09
Luriajohnx, on a 5600? i thought sdhc was controller dependant?08:09
LuriaVictBC43, did you see the 757?08:10
VictBC43I looked at the n810.. but thought that the two SD memory slots were more important than then built in GPS and slideout keyboard.. besides I have heard the built in GPS chip is not the greatest.. so I thought I can get an external BT GPS with the n800 and place it the optimal position on the dash for reception while still having the n800 closer to me so I can see the screen better08:10
GeneralAntillesGood plan.08:10
johnxLuria, C1000...I have no idea how they made it work O_o08:10
Luriaamazing08:11
johnxVictBC43, yeah. and the N800 is such a deal right now08:11
Luriaif they released a shiba model, i would have had to buy another zaurus :-)08:11
VictBC43is that the i-blue that data logging or some such thing built in.. ?08:11
* Luria has one of those (shiba inus) too08:11
Luriayes, and the solar panel08:12
VictBC43And apparently the speakers in the front of n800 are a little better than the ones they put in the n81008:12
VictBC43or so the various reviews I have read have pointed out :)08:12
Luriathats scary, cause the n800 speakers blow. or rather, they dont, enough08:12
GeneralAntillesN800 speakers are great for their size.08:13
johnxwhat do you expect on something that size?!08:13
Luriabetter.08:13
VictBC43well that was the comment. they are amazing considering their size08:13
GeneralAntillesLoudspeaker quality, evidently.08:13
Luria:-)08:13
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VictBC43anyway all those things plus the fact that it runs linux was what made me order one.. I also wanted something that could be used the way I used to the use the Zaurus.. like an ultra mini laptop ;) or these days I guess the term is UMPC08:15
GeneralAntillesInternet tablet. :P08:15
johnxVictBC43, the only thing I really miss (having an N800 instead of an N810) is the transflective screen and the keyboard08:16
GeneralAntillesor "MID" if you're Intel.08:16
VictBC43well you can also run ssh, xterm, etc etc or so I read08:16
johnxand some crazy guys are working on Debian08:16
Luriajohnx, yeah, agreed08:16
Luriatho i find im using my eee more and more and my n800 less and less08:16
GeneralAntillesEee doesn't make any sense for my usage.08:18
GeneralAntillesIf it's not pocketable, it's kinda pointless.08:18
VictBC43I no one has tried getting a mini version of x-windows running on one.. or is that what the interface is using in the OS already?  It would be cool to ssh to my linux box at home and have an app served to the n80008:18
johnxx windows is in by default :)08:18
GeneralAntillesVictBC43, yeah, that works fine.08:18
timelyxjohnx: by default makes it sound like you can easily or safely remove X08:18
VictBC43Coooool !!08:18
timelyxyou can't.08:18
timelyxw/o x, the device will reboot itself :)08:19
johnxX11 is an important component of the Maemo UI08:19
GeneralAntillestimelyx, what are you on about?08:19
johnxthere is my marketing speech recalibrated? :P08:19
timelyx(again, and again, until it switches to play dead mode)08:19
VictBC43I looked at those as well, I assume you are talking about the ASUS Eee's?08:19
timelyxGeneralAntilles: English word choice08:19
Luriayeah, an eeepc08:19
timelyxdefault implies a certain level of "optional"08:19
timelyxit isn't.08:19
GeneralAntillesEr, right, pedantry. :P08:20
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VictBC43they look cool.. but they are a little big.. I already have a regular laptop. I wanted something that could be truly put in your pocket :)08:20
Luriatimelyx, booting is an unsupported feature, thus x is optional08:20
timelyxLuria: to be fair, my 770 had been off for weeks08:21
* timelyx turns it "off" again08:22
VictBC43hehe.. all they need to do is build an n-series internet tablet with in one of those i-tech style virtual keyboards and those new miniature laser projector systems that are match-box sized and it would be awesome :)08:27
VictBC43that way you could have your full size keyboard and a regular sized screen all projected from a hand held UMPC08:28
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GeneralAntillesHave you ever used a laser-keyboard before, VictBC43? <_<08:28
johnxthat and bluetooth foldable keyboards are both great ... until you want to type standing up or sitting on a crowded train, or on a bus/in a car, etc, etc08:28
VictBC43no.. I have not.. just read the reviews.. the zaurus had a thumb board built in08:29
GeneralAntillesThen you have the fullscreen keyboard!08:29
GeneralAntilles(which they really need to roll the bugs out of)08:29
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johnxGeneralAntilles, which bugs are you thinking of specifically?08:29
GeneralAntillesHehehe08:29
GeneralAntillesThe broken return key08:29
GeneralAntillesBroken tap placement08:30
GeneralAntillesBroken activation08:30
VictBC43I have used a fold out portable keyboard for the Palm Pilot I has.. it was IR and was ok.. but had to make sure it was positioned correctly so they could see each other..08:30
VictBC43has = had08:31
johnxVictBC43, bluetooth a very nice step up in that regard08:31
GeneralAntillesI'd get yourself an iGo keyboard asap VictBC43.08:31
johnxGeneralAntilles, I thought (2) was something to do with the touchscreen?08:31
GeneralAntillesNo, johnx.08:31
GeneralAntillesMaybe for some people08:31
GeneralAntillesBut it's a new bug with OS2008 final.08:31
johnxah08:31
VictBC43So.. back to GPS.. has anyone here seen or owned a Holux brand GPS?08:31
pupnik_the igo seems very popular08:31
GeneralAntilless/new bug/new bug for me/08:32
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: But it's a new bug for me with OS2008 final.08:32
GeneralAntillespupnik_, really, really portable.08:32
GeneralAntillesand it was on Amazon for $30 USD for a few months. ;)08:32
VictBC43the other question I had was what the best IRC client to use with the n800?08:33
GeneralAntillesxchat08:33
GeneralAntillesor irssi08:33
GeneralAntillesWhichever suits your fancy.08:33
VictBC43which is what I am using right now, only on my home PC08:34
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legindyeah n800 xchat ftw08:34
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VictBC43and is there an application that lets you use the built in web cam as a video recorder.. ?08:34
Lurianici own a holux usb gps08:35
pupnik_that's crazy, i paid $130 for what is just an igo stowaway sonoma08:35
Lurianicactually i have it with me08:35
pupnik_looks like the same design as the thinkoutside08:35
Lurianicxchat everywhere (except windows) ftw\08:35
johnxVictBC43, I think there's something to record some type of video...but don't expect much08:36
inzssh+screen+irssi everywhere!08:36
VictBC43I know the quality of the camera is supposed to not be the best.. but I though it would be handy to have..08:36
johnxthe cam is actually so bad that not many people have bothered doing much with it08:36
GeneralAntillesIt is, pupnik_.08:37
VictBC43hehe.. well I looked at some of the demonstrations of the n800 on youtube and the quality of camera did'nt seem that terrible. but I guess I will know better when I actually get mine in had :)08:37
VictBC43had = hand08:37
Lurianicthe cam is, as the kids say, "teh suck"08:37
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johnxhopefully we'll discourage you so much about it that when you see it you'll actually be impressed :)08:38
Luriaimpressed by how bad it is, yeah.08:38
VictBC43hehe..08:38
GeneralAntillesYeah, don't get me wrong. I love my tablets.08:38
johnxVictBC43, actually, did you ever see the Camera attachment for the Z5500 (or see pics taken with it)?08:39
Luriaotoh, im very impressed by the eee's cam08:39
VictBC43well what do you want for something that does all the things that the n800 appears to do and in only $239 :)08:39
Luriajohnx, i have one!08:39
VictBC43So how do you like your Eee PC?08:39
johnxLuria, would you agree that the N800 cam is actually worse?08:39
Luriai mean, the eee's cam at .3m just like the n80008:40
Lurianow that i think about it, yes, iirc08:40
johnxisn't that sad?08:40
LuriaVictBC43, im really impressed by the eee. i miss bt, but that's a hack away08:40
Luriai stuck 2gb in it and kde3.5+compiz08:41
johnxor one of those really short bt usb modules08:41
VictBC43Does it have BT built in.. or would you have to get a USB dongle?08:41
Luriaits nice to have a well supported linux box travelling with the n80008:41
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Luriano built in BT in this generation08:41
Luriabut 3 usb ports08:41
johnxLuria, sacrifice a USB port for one of these: http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/24/princetons-itty-bitty-usb-bluetooth-2-0-edr-module/08:42
VictBC43So how much smaller is it than a 'standard' laptop. hard to tell from the pictures I have seen..08:42
Luria(plus vga out, ethernet, sound i/o and an sdhc card slot08:42
LuriaVictBC43, it reminds me of a cross between my cf-m34 and old laptops (because of the frame around the screen)08:43
Luriabut it is a serviceable machine - i havent touched my toshiba of similar specs (r100) since i got it.08:43
Luria4200rpm drives for x86 machines = bad idea. cf mac air08:44
Luriaspeaking of -08:44
Luriahttp://diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com/2008/01/mac-cutting-edge-technology.html08:44
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Luriaas far as size, the keyboard takes getting used to, and the screen, despite the resolution, is fine for general use - but expect to maximize everything.08:45
VictBC43Soooo.. one last question about GPS.. Holux or I-Blue.. MTK vs SIRFIII.. what is the consensus ?08:46
GeneralAntillesLuria, that's what the SSD is for. :P08:46
Luriaits a really good IT tool, backtrack linux specifically supports it as of BT3 beta08:46
GeneralAntillesMTK08:46
Luriamtk08:46
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GeneralAntillesHolux or i-blue . . . get whatever you can get a deal on.08:46
Luriasirf IIIc, maybe, if you can find it08:46
GeneralAntillesThey're pretty much identical.08:46
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I like the look of the i-blues more.08:46
Luriaexcept in power draw08:46
GeneralAntillesBut, meh.08:46
Luriamtk32 beats III like a red headed stepchild in the power draw category.08:47
LuriaVictBC43, are you using the gps exclusively with the n800?08:49
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VictBC43Hmm well it looks like I can get a i-blue 737 for 59.00 cdn.. I have a Holux GPSlim 236 on order.. but as I said.. it would seem from reading about them that there is a good chance the BT circuit with fail after a short while.. but it does have the SiRF Star III chipset ...08:52
VictBC43yes.. I would be using it exclusively with the n800.. at least in the foreseeable future08:53
Luriathen go with the iblue08:54
Luriaif you can08:54
Luriaodd, ive found holux gpses to be well built.08:55
VictBC43Ok.. will call CanadaGPS tomorrow and see if I can get an RMA number for an item I have not even received yet (it is in transit) :)08:55
Luria:-)08:55
Luriawill an order from semsons kill you on cross border shipping/exchange?08:57
Luriai was very happy with my order from them08:57
Luriaplus they just have neat stuff :-)08:57
VictBC43It might.. especially if they ship via a courier.. they kill you with brokerage fees..08:58
Luriawell, look into it. the prices were the best i found in the us when i ordered my 757pro (in july)08:59
ds3Numerix (sp?) chipset BT GPS's aren't bad and the battery life is incredible08:59
Luriahttp://www.semsons.com/nosyblgpsres.html09:00
VictBC43if you search Amazon.com for Holux GPslim 236 then look at the customer reviews.. those that have had the unit for several months... there seems toe be a common theme.. BT failure and poor or nonexistent customer support..09:00
VictBC43http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000AOMPS6/ref=cm_cr_pr_redirect/103-2320153-969824909:00
Luriathats the new sirf chipset09:01
Luriai dont know how well it works vs. the promises09:01
ds3that's expensive09:02
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Luriait could be worse09:03
Luriahttp://www.semsons.com/i757prosobtd.html09:03
Luriathats what i use09:03
VictBC43Hmmm.. luria.. you say you have the i757.. does anyone have the i737 here?09:03
GeneralAntillesYes.09:03
Luriathey are virtually the same09:04
GeneralAntillesSolar panel09:04
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Luriaand 8mb logger09:04
ds3Luria: how long does it run between charges?09:04
Lurialong09:04
Luriaits rare that i charge it09:04
Luriaesp when in use during the day09:05
ds3have you had it on for 12hours?09:05
Luriayes09:05
ds3nice09:05
Luriabad startup aquisition time in my experience, tho09:06
Luriabut i live in a bad area09:06
GeneralAntillesYeah, not here.09:06
GeneralAntilles~30s09:06
ds3they reviews say the surf chipset is more sensitive but higher power consumption the the numerix; I find the numerix one behaves sufficient for me09:06
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Luriastill find the holux sirf3 better for that. once locked thoo, there isnt a difference09:07
GeneralAntillesGoddamn 640x480 video looks good on the tablet. . . .09:07
* GeneralAntilles wish he could ignore the dropped frames. :(09:07
Luriads3, i live in manhattan :-)09:07
VictBC43Luria.. it looks like semsons wants $28.00 to ship to Canada09:07
Luriathey arent dropped frames,09:07
Luriaits JIT video editing09:07
GeneralAntillesHa09:08
johnxGeneralAntilles, crank down the framerate when transcoding?09:08
LuriaVictBC43, ouch09:08
johnxbetter than losing frames on playback09:08
ds3Luria: I've use mine in chicago and it seems fine09:08
GeneralAntillesI transcode to 320x240 with mediaserv for most stuff these days.09:08
VictBC43and that does not include the taxes, duty and brokerage fees I would likely be hit with as well09:08
Luriayeah, been there09:09
VictBC43anyway.. you all seem to think the MTK chipset is as good as the SiRF III?09:09
Luriasavings evaporate *poof*09:09
GeneralAntillesIf only Nokia hadn't screwed up the controller bus. :(09:09
GeneralAntillesSiRF IIIc, VictBC43.09:09
johnxGeneralAntilles, if it's 640x480x16bitsx30fps is probably too much but it might work at 24/25fps if the CPU doesn't get bogged down09:09
Luriathere are a bunch of comparisons online between the two. mtk32 is better with power which is compelling with a mobile use case09:10
Luriaother than that, *shrug*09:10
Luriai use my sirf3 with my laptop, mtk with my n80009:10
GeneralAntillesWeeeeell . . . that didn't work.09:12
* GeneralAntilles broke tablet-encode09:12
johnxoh noes!09:13
GeneralAntillesIt was about a 10 second encoding. <_>09:13
johnxjust yank the preset from tablet-encode and call mencoder directly09:13
GeneralAntillesThere we go.09:13
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VictBC43Well I am off.. thank you for all assistance and input and answering my questions.. it was much appreciated :)09:14
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GeneralAntillesCripes . . . can you imagine downsampled 720p on the N900?09:16
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|tbb|will a scratchbox enviroment also send dbus messages as it does on n8x0 devices09:26
|tbb|morning btw09:26
melmothi think so09:27
kulve|tbb|: in what occasion?09:27
kulveif you have the daemons running and you use dbus-send, then yes, it will send them09:27
|tbb|ah k09:28
kulveand by the "daemons" I mean dbus session and system buses09:29
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kennyyu johnx, I'm not sure if it was you who told me to compile mozilla in CHINOOK_X86 instead of ARMEL. And just to let you know I've finally compiled it successfully :-)09:44
kennyyu and thanks09:44
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timelyxkennyyu: is that all you changed?09:50
* timelyx presumes that --disable-tests was still needed09:50
kennyyuHi timelyx. I just re-do the compilation work once again and I followed your suggestion to --disable-tests09:52
n0ob_re09:52
kennyyuAnd... this time I changed my environment to CHINOOK_X86 for building ILD and Mozilla09:52
kennyyuand it works this time :-)09:53
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* kennyyu thinks timelyx's presumption is right.09:53
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kennyyuand it works finally... I retried it again and again for days and I think the wiki wasn't clear enough... :-(09:55
timelyxkennyyu: anyone can edit a wiki09:56
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kennyyuyes, ... ah, one more thing to note is that.09:57
kennyyuI've found that the patch  does not work09:57
kennyyuso I skipped applying the patch09:57
timelyx"the patch"?09:58
kennyyuand that's it. :-)09:58
kennyyuyes.09:58
kennyyuin the page... wait09:58
kennyyuhttp://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Build/Maemo_Build_Instructions   (there is a patch instruction --> '  cat attachment.cgi\?id\=287745 | patch -p1   ')09:59
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kennyyuhttp://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Build/Maemo_Build_Instructions#Build_the_the_trunk_.28mozilla_1.9.2909:59
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timelyxkennyyu: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=287745&action=edit10:00
timelyxthat bug's resolved10:00
timelyxso the patch shouldn't be needed10:01
timelyxjust remove that instruction from the wiki10:01
kennyyuOic!10:01
kennyyuAlright, I shall just remove it...10:01
kennyyu:-) thanks for your help anyway10:02
kennyyuwithout your help... @@ sigh, I wouldn't have it compiled to this step....10:03
timelyxbtw, you shouldn't repeat yourself10:03
timelyxso stick a single note about CHINOOK_X86 at the top, and get rid of the continual reminders elsewhere10:03
kennyyuyou mean my names in the wiki... oops, I left my names there just because I wasn't sure about my changes....10:05
timelyxbtw, the step for installing xephyr should say "from the host machine"10:05
timelyxjust like the step for "running" xephyr10:05
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timelyx...does10:05
kennyyulet me see...10:06
timelyxnote: while anyone can edit a wiki, i hate wikis because they require me to remember usernames+passwords, which i can't seem to do. so since you're interested in editing it, i'm kinda borrowing you :)10:06
kennyyuhahaha10:06
kennyyunot at all :-)10:06
timelyx:)10:07
timelyxanyway, i'm off to work.10:07
kennyyualright, have a nice day :-)10:07
timelyxhrm10:07
timelyxyou should add the ac_add_options --disable-tests line into the mozconfig fragment10:08
timelyxnear the line that does:10:08
timelyxecho "mk_add_options MOZ_OBJDIR=@TOPSRCDIR@/obj-dir-browser-chinook-armel" >> mozconfig10:08
timelyxsomething like: echo "ac_add_options --disable-tests" >> mozconfig10:08
timelyx(make sure the line works before you add it to the wiki..)10:08
* timelyx still doesn't understand the xmlextras bit10:09
* timelyx bangs elbow... *ouch*10:09
kennyyuokok :p10:09
kennyyudon't worry10:10
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_collin_re10:57
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BlafaselMorning.. Two questions: Is it me or is the headphone jack hard to get out of the N810 again? And are there known problems with 11MBit/b networks or is this AP from the stoneage flaky?11:16
micheleBlafasel: the jack is hard, yes and your AP might not support power saving11:19
michelego in the advanced preferences for the connection and increase the timeout11:20
JaffaMorning, all11:20
solmumahamorning11:21
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:26
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|tbb|morning jaffa,blafasel11:30
|tbb|blafasel: have u iodine get to run, with 4.011:31
|tbb|hi collin11:31
_collin_tbb: 0.4.1 is online :)11:32
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|tbb|blasfasel: there you go11:33
|tbb|collin:thx11:33
_collin_tbb: he knows already11:33
|tbb|oh11:34
_collin_and using it11:34
_collin_do people from nokia/maemo tend to hang out here? ... just curious11:35
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Tama^2Hello11:37
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inz_collin_, some do11:38
Tama^2Hello11:38
Blafaselmichele: The idle times are set to unlimited for me. I guess/hope that disables powersaving completely?11:39
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Tama^2odd11:40
Tama^2my irc client was mis-behaving11:40
n0ob_what resolution does the n810 camera have? what does vga mean in this context? is it 640x480?11:40
kulven0ob_: don't mind the resolution. The quality is *low*.11:41
kulvevga is 640x48011:41
n0ob_kulve: can you give me example pictures?11:42
kulvehttp://tuomas.kulve.fi/tmp/camera-2007-02-14-22-55-41.jpg11:43
kulveseems to be vga resolution11:43
micheleBlafasel: I think so11:44
inzAnd quite noisy ;)11:44
kulveit's maybe a bit better (lower noise) in very bright light but I think that's quite typical image.11:44
michelekulve: tracked down that doc?11:44
n0ob_ouch11:44
n0ob_that not nice11:44
kulvemichele: still tracking..11:44
inznoob, the camera is really meant for videoconf, not much else11:45
n0ob_mmh ok inz11:45
n0ob_im just asking, because 380euros are quite a few bucks ;-)11:46
kulvethat was actually from n800, but at least the video quality is the same in n810. I think the camera is the same.11:47
n0ob_ok kulve thanks a lot11:47
Tama^2Hey folks, how long should an n800 battery last when idle?11:49
kulveseveral days. When really idle11:49
n0ob_how much bandwidth does conferencing approximatly need?11:49
Tama^2how can you tell when it's really idle?11:49
kulven0ob_: you mean video call? I a bit over 128kbps it seems..11:49
n0ob_nice11:50
Tama^2offline, screen locked, no app running and I still get only a few hours11:50
kulven0ob_: I'll take that back..11:50
n0ob_oh?11:50
kulven0ob_: we tried the call with 128kbps 3G and the uploading was a missing some frames, but I'm not sure how much the upload bandwidth is in that 3G. Maybe 64kbps. The download direction worked ok with 128kbps.11:51
n0ob_thank you :-)11:52
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inzn0ob, http://inz.fi/n810.jpg is with n81011:54
inzn0ob, so pretty much the same quality11:54
n0ob_thx inz you own a n810?11:55
micheleTama^2: see if this helps http://tabletblog.com/2008/01/lost-battery-life-try-this.html11:55
kulven0ob_: I have n810 too..11:56
inzn0ob, "yes"11:56
Tama^2thanks michele11:56
Tama^2I have seen that one :)11:56
Tama^2not helping apparently11:56
kulveTama^2: your device isn't in R&D mode, right?11:57
n0ob_ok thats good... some people complain about the gps, but dont state wether they mean the hardware itself or the prepacked software. do you have experiences?11:57
kulven0ob_: the gps hw is pretty bad11:57
kulveslow in getting the fix, especially while in move11:58
Tama^2kulve: nope :)11:58
kulvebut I think it's good enough for a tablet since it's not a real gps device. More like a toy..11:58
inzYesterday I got gps fix indoors11:58
kulveinz: at home?11:59
inzAlthough it claimed that my dining room table moved at 2-7 km/h velocity11:59
inzkulve, yeah11:59
db48xheh11:59
kulveyeah, it's always some km/h because the fix isn't accurate enough..11:59
micheleinz: yeah, in fact it's moving quite a lot faster than that, it's all a matter of choosing a reference11:59
Tama^2lol11:59
n0ob_mmh ok so what is realy positive about this geek toy?12:00
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Tama^2it's all about the frame of reference...12:00
kulven0ob_: I spent 7 hours reading an pdf during the weekend. And I'm watching some tv series from it.12:00
inzmichele, well, my take is egocentric, and I was sitting by the table12:00
n0ob_kulve: ok thats nice ;-)12:00
kulveAlso the GPS is enough for most uses. And the device with qwerty is perfect for ircing12:01
inzShame no one has unfucked-up the xterm for chinook12:01
nomiskulve: it is a shame though that a high-price device like the N810 has such a pathetic chipset though. I mean, >5 minutes for first fix...12:02
* inz whistles and avoids eye contact12:02
n0ob_kulve: i want to use the gps for http://www.openstreetmap.org/12:02
kulvenomis: high-price? Have you compared the device to other devices with WVGA display, GPS, qwerty, 2G internal flash, 256M RAM, micro SD card slot, camera, etc.?12:02
michelen0ob_: some friends of mine used it here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Arezzo_Mapping_Party12:03
bmidgley_sirf-iii can perform really well. I suspect the antenna is the problem12:03
Tama^2kulve: can you suggest tools to explore the power consumption problem? (something that return the current mAh/s or something like that )12:03
kulveTama^2: I think there's nothing as sophisticated as that..12:03
kulveTama^2: Have you checked with e.g. top that there really isn't anything running?12:04
n0ob_michele: ok that seems to work then ;)12:04
kulvei.e. taking cpu12:04
bmidgley_too bad there's no ext plug12:04
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michelekulve: shouldn't there be a file in /proc?12:04
michelefor the battery mAh12:04
johnxbmidgley, I think it's a sirf2 not a sirf3, IIRC12:04
kulvemichele: I'm not sure actually..12:04
Tama^2yep, top reports low cpu usage but the load is never quite < 5/1012:05
johnxer...actually12:05
johnxwhat is it12:05
johnxhmm12:05
* johnx googles12:05
wndjohnx, are you thinking of intel's powertop for tickless kernel?12:06
johnxnot a sirf at all, it's the GPS5300 from TI12:06
_collin_I thought the n810 doesn't have a sirf3 but has some TI chip12:06
wndnevermind :-)12:06
_collin_there was this story on planet-maemo ...12:06
Tama^2whatever it is, it;s not a hogging the cpu, just keeping the unit busy enough to prevent it from entering a better powersave mode12:06
johnxwnd, actually I tried powertop under debian on N800 and it didn't have enough of the hooks in the kernel that powertop needed to work12:07
johnxall it would tell me was the percent of time that the CPU was spending at a certain clockspeed12:08
bmidgleyjohnx yeah I thought I had read sirf-iii in a specsheet but can't find anything now12:08
johnxwhich is somewhat irrelevant in the case of the tablet12:08
wndoh12:08
johnxbmidgley, it's the GPS5300, same as an N9512:08
johnxbut without being able to do that celluar AGPS thing like the N95 does12:08
johnxGPS5300 is TI's "lowest cost" chipset apparently12:09
_collin_:)12:09
bmidgleyis it low power too or just cheaper12:09
* johnx shrugs12:09
johnxlinkage: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12607&path=templatedata/cm/product/data/gps_gps5300&DCMP=WTBU&HQS=ProductBulletin+OT+navilink_412:09
bmidgleytoo bad... it performs about as well as my old sirf-ii gps12:10
johnxsomeone ran tests. Apparently the sirf-ii is a little better12:10
bmidgleyouch12:11
johnxyeah, for N810 owners. Makes me feel better about getting my N800 when I did though12:12
johnxbmidgley, oh, if you're interested in hearing about A2DP performance with the N800 booted into Debian: 75% constant CPU usage @ 400MHz ... but no skipping until I put further load on it. Period size gets set correctly, too12:13
lirithe poor thing is that there's like no gps/maps applications for the n81012:15
bmidgleyjohnx a good test would be cvs head with http://pastebin.com/m41b4750c applied12:15
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liriwould've been cool if there was some integration with googlemaps and the gps12:15
johnxcvs head of bluez-utils?12:15
bmidgleyliri it has a pretty weak app but maemo-mapper is great12:15
bmidgleyjohnx yes12:16
bmidgleymarcel doesn't like how ugly the patch is... esp since gcc gets tripped up by 'static inline' on a fn12:16
bmidgleyjohnx 75% is really high though... does that include mp3 decoding?12:17
johnxyes12:17
bmidgleythrough the gstreamer plugin?12:17
johnxthrough mplayer12:17
johnxactually, I should try a different decoder12:17
bmidgleyfwiw, the alsa plugin performs a lot better than the gstreamer plugin currently12:19
bmidgleygst must be spinning the cpu12:19
johnxinteresting12:19
bmidgleyit is probably an implementation problem on our side12:20
johnxis this on an N8x0 or something else12:20
Tama^2A2DP requires the audio be compressed again so it could be also an unoptimized codec in bluez12:20
bmidgleywe're slowly optimizing it12:20
bmidgleyheh12:20
johnxso I guess my experience on the Zaurus was just a lucky fluke. heh.12:21
bmidgleythe bluez gst guy just got mp3 direct-to-headset working through gstreamer12:21
johnxthat's only for a couple headsets though, right?12:21
bmidgleyyeah sadly12:22
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johnxheh...nothing like being an early adopter12:24
bmidgley"is this on an N8x0 or something else" pxa270/gumstix12:25
johnxopenembedded? debian?12:25
bmidgleyoe12:25
bmidgleydebian on gumstix?? :)12:26
johnxeither way, something with a more "vanilla" setup than ITOS12:26
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johnxbmidgley, debian on zaurus12:26
johnxsame hardware12:26
johnx64MB RAM / PXA270 @ 416MHz / root on SD12:26
bmidgleypxa270 runs well but the uart is too slow to take advantage of bluetooth212:27
johnxI need more SD cards so I can swtich OSes more quickly :D12:27
johnxI'm doing bluetooth over USB host with cheapie USB BT adapter that claims to be BT 1.112:28
liribmidgley: I am reading up on maemo-mapper on its homepage but it doesn't say - what is the source for the maps?12:28
bmidgleyliri: out of the box, it's openstreetmap12:29
johnxliri, couple different sources: openstreetmap, google maps, and something else I dont' remember12:29
bmidgleyliri: but you can "steal" google maps and get usgs topo maps12:29
bmidgleyliri the topo maps are great but only cover the US12:29
liriwhats usgs?12:30
bmidgleyUS geological survey12:30
liriahh ok12:30
liriso it can rely on googlemaps for the gps?12:30
micheleand MS virtual earth12:30
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michelewhich I think has nicer street maps12:31
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bmidgleyliri it can use google's data but doesn't use their web app12:31
bmidgleyi need to dig up a hack i wrote to use google maps with gpsd12:31
liribmidgley: it just implements their api for the maps?12:32
bmidgleyyou have to hack around the javascript sandbox12:32
bmidgleyliri it uses their "internal" api which is actually verboten12:32
liribmidgley: umm so does it require you to be online when using googlemaps?12:32
bmidgleyliri no it caches them12:33
liribmidgley: ahh nice12:33
liribmidgley: unfortunately israel has no street mapping, only sat and terrain12:33
bmidgleyopenstreetmap is trying to map it all, eh?12:34
liriyeah :)12:35
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bmidgleyi see it only has a few major routes http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.328&lon=34.906&zoom=10&layers=B0FT12:36
bmidgleyoh it does have more in jerusalem12:37
bmidgleystill pretty weak12:38
bmidgleyg'night all12:38
johnx'night12:39
johnxI'll do some more testing with bluez cvs head :)12:39
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lardmanmorning12:55
Tama^2Hello fatman xD12:56
lardmanhow rude ;)12:56
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Tama^2oh sorry I thought it was your name not a faithful description of your appearance O,o12:57
lardmanmore a faithful description of my dietary habits in the 1st year at uni12:58
lardmanAnyway, after my impressive experience with the gps yesterday (it didn't connect), I had a browse on ITT and noticed that the GPS is a Ti 350013:00
lardmanwhich supports AGPS13:00
lardmanthe question is, can we enable this somehow?13:00
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johnxthat could be interesting13:02
lardmanah-ha, there is life :)13:02
johnxundeath at least :)13:02
lardmanI understand there's a daemon called something like gpsdriver, anyone seen this?13:02
johnxsomeone needs to send me an N810 so I can start hacking on it :)13:03
_berto_johnx: try here -> http://sense-datum.org/tim/archive/2008/01/24/a_gift_to_me_can_be_a_gift_to_/tim_samoff__weblog13:04
_berto_;-)13:04
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lardmanhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=112892#post11289213:06
johnxyeah, I looked at that13:07
lardmanI think that's the right link: gpsdriver is closed source and doesn't tell us what params it takes13:07
johnxah13:07
lardmanhttp://tii.developerconference.ext.ti.com/post-conf/downloads/james-hymel.pdf p4313:07
johnxif you kill off GPSD and accept the consequences you can just talk to it through it's UART, right?13:08
lardmannow presumably when the user-side talks to the gps over /dev/ttyS0 (or is it S1?), it's actually talking to the GPS Controller hardware13:08
lardmankilling gpsd perhaps, then you just talk to the serial device, but if the gpsdriver is required to create or mediate the serial device, then it would be good to see what that does13:09
johnxyeah13:10
lardmanbut at what level is the agps stuff implemented I wonder13:10
lardmaninterestingly, from that pdf, I see that the gps controller does power managment, which means there may be some clues in the kernel source13:11
johnxon the link to the product page from the first post of that thread it looks like AGPS data is just fed to it via the UART connected to the OMAP13:12
johnx(or at least it can be)13:12
lardmanyes, the question is can that be the same uart as the other control messages are sent over?13:13
lardmanin which case gpsdriver may be able to do something with it13:13
* |tbb| means, before you all hack the gps chip try to write drivers for powervr support ;)13:14
lardmanI was just interested, still thinking about PowerVR don't worry :)13:14
johnx|tbb|, I think the powervr drivers would be a couple more orders of magnitude harder than telling some lies to a GPS chip :)13:14
|tbb|hehe  ;)13:16
lardmanjust makes it a better challenge ;)13:16
lardmanthough I hear that the OMAP gaming SDKs have been removed from the Ti site13:16
lardmananyone seen the gps chip?13:18
lardmanp42 of the pdf indicates that v2 has far more features (and is ~50mm^2 as opposed to ~80mm^2 for v1)13:18
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lardmanI should add, that even though we don't have GSM built in (and therefore can't necessarily obtain precise information for our general location)13:29
lardman(though we could use one of the existing location from ip services, I'm not sure how much extra data is needed at that location, or how much processing would be required to calculate it)13:29
lardmanwe can use agps lto - long time orbit, which simply passes information about satellite locations13:30
lardmans/can/could13:30
lardmane.g. http://uc.gpsworld.com/gpsuc/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=26223513:30
lardmandoes that make sense?13:31
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liribmidgley: uhmm, I wonder if .fbl maps files can be used with maemo-mapper13:38
jkulardman, didn't read the whole log here, but just in case it didn't come up: gpsctrl.h has some functions that let you switch the chip on and off and  to different power levels without using gpsd13:41
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Jaffalardman: priming the AGPS with the iPod Touch's wifi-based triangulation would be very cool13:42
jkuand gpsinternal.h is interesting in the sense that is shows that you can feed the last known position to the chip to speed up init...13:42
jkuof course the actual libs are closed in chinook13:43
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lardmanjku: in the kernel source?13:47
jkuno, gpsmgr probably13:47
lardmanJaffa: triangulation would be useful (assuming we don't need to do lots of calcs to generate data for that location), but just passing ephemeris data, etc. would be good13:49
jkulardman, libgpsbt actually13:50
lardmanJaffa: how does the triagulation work, would be good for location services in any case13:50
lardmanjku: thanks13:50
lardmananyone happen to have the N810 kernel config handy?13:51
jkuthe library definitions are fairly fuzzy -- personally I wouldn't have guessed that "libgpsbt" includes control functions for a GPS that has nothing to do with bluetooth...13:51
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lardman"Select between the IrDA and aGPS module" in the kernel patch13:52
lardmanprobably doesn't mean much though13:52
johnxjku, well, even gnuite didn't guess that selecting "bluetooth" with a blank MAC would automagically make the N810 GPS work in maemo mapper13:52
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jkujohnx, exactly13:53
jkulardman, Jaffa: I've been toying with an idea of a free wifi location service...13:53
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jkuactually did some  wardriving tests (for data collection) with n81013:53
lardmanjku: where's that libgpsbt source then?13:54
jkusomwhere in a Nokia vault13:54
lardmanoh, so how have you seen it? Are you a Nokian?13:54
jkuNo. I just read headers :)13:54
jkuand try the functions...13:55
lardmanah, so where's the header then13:55
lardman?13:55
b0unc3good morning13:55
johnxmornin' b0unc313:55
lardmanmorning b0unc313:55
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jkulardman, install libgpsbt-dev (it's in the nokia binaries package)13:56
lardmancool13:56
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jkugpsbt and gpsmgr were free but got closed in chinook...13:57
jkuno doubt because of some gps chip magic that they include13:57
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johnxwell I think we're used to seeing that :/13:58
b0unc3damn.. the gps on my n810 appears to be broken ...13:58
johnxb0unc3, won't get a lock?13:58
b0unc3johnx: exactly13:58
jkuthe it works13:58
johnxthey take forever to lock13:59
jkuthen, even13:59
johnxfor-ev-er13:59
b0unc3johnx: how much is 'forever' ? :|13:59
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lardman2^999 days13:59
b0unc3:(13:59
johnxone Unix epoch?13:59
johnxthe first lock is the longest13:59
lardmanwell mine worked in 5min actually13:59
johnxhow long did you give it?13:59
b0unc3lardman: really ?14:00
lardmanbut it's not worked since, though I've not tried too hard14:00
lardmanyeah14:00
lardmanfirst lock that is14:00
Doni^hmm. i get a lock fairly quickly. it depends tho where i am.14:00
Doni^and also the position of the tablet affects.14:00
Doni^external gps is quicker imao.14:00
lardmanwe need agps enabled ;)14:00
b0unc3johnx: I have waited for 15min...14:00
Doni^agps would help.14:01
johnxI don't have an N810 so I can't add my experience but I think the consensus would be "keep waiting"14:01
Doni^it's a bit like n95 without agps.14:01
Doni^same chip?14:01
johnxb0unc3, is this indoors or outdoors?14:01
b0unc3johnx: both14:01
johnxah well, keep waiting14:01
johnxI think there is a thread on ITT where people compare notes about how long it took them14:02
b0unc3uhm... ok .. I will search ...14:02
johnxI think a couple people ended up just leaving it searching by a window overnight14:02
johnxit's better after the first lock14:03
jkuAbout the wifi positioning: it's entirely possible and would be quite accurate: I tried walking round the block constantly scanning networks: I got more than 200 networks with an average of more than 10 different observation points for each...14:03
Doni^well it is not that accurate.14:04
Doni^it is okay to give some estimation where you are.14:04
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Doni^and of course is heavily dependent on the available wlans (fingerprints)14:04
jkuDoni, what do you base that on?14:05
Doni^jku: my opinion?14:05
Doni^jku: experience14:05
jkuhave you tried this?14:05
Doni^yes.14:05
jkuany links?14:05
lardmanis it possible to get the wifi chip to return the fingerprints and signal strengths though?14:06
johnxDoni^, well if you're really lost one AP will get you within 300ft which would be better than nothing14:06
Doni^jku: no.14:06
jkulardman: yes14:06
Doni^johnx: yes, yes. it's okay. would be good for assisting gps.14:06
lardmaneven with the closed source chip we use?14:06
johnxDoni^, it would be better than nothing for us without GPS14:06
jkulardman, yes14:06
Doni^johnx: definitely.14:06
lardmanjku: oh, good14:06
johnxthankfully only part of wifi driver is closed source14:07
jkuDoni^, johnx: I'm guessinmg 30m accuracy is entirely possible in cities14:07
jkuit would require good data on the server though14:07
Doni^jku: yes. basically.14:07
lardmanSo what does one use, what is the fingerprint made up of? Hostip won't work unless you connect to them all14:07
johnxMAC14:08
jkuyou mean how toidentify them? MAC address14:08
Doni^yes. i mean the idea is not to connect to the wlans14:08
Doni^you don't need to do that.14:08
johnx(pretty much) globally unique14:08
lardmanDoni^: yep, was wondering whether there were already dbs for MACs14:08
Doni^you would have a database of wlan fingerprints and their geopositions14:08
jkulardman, yes but not free ones14:09
Doni^probably. but i guess not freely available.14:09
jkulardman, see wigle.net (12million APs)14:09
lardmanWould be easy enough to generate one from other people using the hostip/other ip based location services, just get them to report the MAC id and location abcl14:09
lardmanback even14:09
jkuhostip is useless, would need gps14:10
jkuthat's why n810 would be the right platform...14:10
lardmanbut how accurate do we need to be I wonder for agps?14:10
Doni^yes. you need to collect them with wlan+gps capable device.14:10
Doni^in order to place the wlan's on a map14:11
lardmanok14:11
Doni^and from that map it is possible to calculate the position of the device using wlan only. by some error margin.14:11
lardmanyep14:11
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jkuDoni^, any chance you could share your experience on wlan mapping? I can give my email address if you prefer private...14:12
lardmanhmm, still need something to boostrap agps with and i wonder if hostip is accurate enough, I'd imagine so14:12
johnxmaybe we can convince the openstreetmap guys to help, given that they're already driving around with a GPS :)14:12
Doni^jku: sure.14:12
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lardmanI note there's nothing about AGPS on the roadmap, I wonder if something is planned or not14:15
jkujohnx, the problem is that most of them are working with GPS devices that have no WLAN chip...14:16
johnxjku, they seem like the sort of people who might have a laptop or PDA though :)14:17
jkutrue and there is a large wardriving community that might get interested "for the common good"14:17
_collin_people are still wardriving???14:17
lardmangot to go see a man about a shoulder14:17
johnxread: "an excuse to drive around and search for APs"14:17
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jku_collin_,  wigle.net has _12 million_ APs and you can't even use their data for anything -- people have weird hobbies14:18
_collin_:))14:18
johnx_collin_, remember when wardriving was the new thing?14:18
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_collin_yes I do14:18
_collin_around 1999,2000 maybe end 200114:19
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melmothWith my new n810, i do kebabdriving. I roam the neighbourhood, and i note each doner i found as a maemomapper POI.14:20
* melmoth loves it14:20
_collin_melmoth: :)14:20
Cptnodegarddiner?14:20
Luriamelmoth, you in berlin or somethin :-)14:21
bencerhi there, is there any way to access contact's fields with python ? maybe a dbus interface ?14:21
Luriaah, france14:21
melmothParis (but in a part of paris where there are not enough good kebab place)14:21
Cptnodegardwhy not use the internal map software which will show you any nearby POIs? :p14:21
Luriayou threw me with doner.14:21
jkubencer, python-abook maybe?14:22
Luriawas expecting turks, not algerians :-)14:22
bencerthanks jku :)14:22
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BlafaselH.. osso-xterm doesn't notice a terminated shell? ^D closes the shell, but the window stays?14:30
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zuhI'm annoyed by that too14:32
* dpb_ too14:34
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_collin_Blafasel: you are using iodine, right? do you have a nice addon script for running it?14:36
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florianre14:39
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Blafasel_collin_: No, not at all yet. I'll try to come up with something, though. I'd like to have a way to create a "connection" via iodine from the GUI14:40
BlafaselMaybe I can look into it tonight14:40
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_collin_Blafasel: ah ok, I would suggest Python14:41
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BlafaselI'll drop you a line if I can get something running14:42
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_collin_working_Blafasel: cool14:43
Jaffalardman|away/jku: I read an article which said the iPod's location is done by a company providing the service. They drive around with a GPS, identifying ESSIDs being broadcast at locations. 70% of US covered, expanding Europe and Asia coverage ATM. Colleague's iPod Touch worked very well with it in London.14:44
* Jaffa has considered packet sniffing an iPod to see if it's directly usable ;-)14:45
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jkuJaffa, it's skyhookwireless, AFAIK. They're the biggest in the field14:45
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Jaffajku: Yeah, that was it. Struggled to remember the name.14:49
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jkuDoni^, only just noticed you're a finn: if you manage to mail me some info, feel free to do it in finnish...14:57
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Doni^jku: ok15:08
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maddlerJaffa: I wonder how easy would be to misplace an iPod using messed up ESSIDs! :015:17
maddler:D15:17
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Jaffamaddler: :-)15:21
|tbb|jaffa: but nice they try to doing something. is it not possible to collect the mac of an ap with combinate essid.15:25
maddler|tbb|: why not?15:27
johnxthey would be crazy not to be using the MAC (aka BSSID) of the network and simply ignoring ad-hoc networks entirely15:28
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|tbb|the icd of nokia seems that dumb, cause it try  connects  to an ap which got the same name as it stored in iap15:30
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Jaffaicd is super dumb in so many ways15:31
Jaffaqgil's blog post on Trolltech acquisition is good.15:31
hugolpJaffa:  link?15:32
|tbb|jaffa, lol15:32
johnxhugolp, http://flors.wordpress.com/ I think15:33
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maddlerhttp://flors.wordpress.com/2008/01/29/gnomes-trolls-and-the-maemo-lands/15:37
|tbb|1. offline mode 2. wlan on but not connected to any ap and search for ap set to never,  will the first method save more  batterypower and how much if so?15:38
inzoffline also disables bluetooth, but that doesn't change all that much15:41
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* Jaffa raises an icd bug based on our recent discussion and various problems discussed on ITT: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=285715:56
micheleI wonder how skyhook gets its data when I am not connected to an AP16:00
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micheleoh, it seems it has a local cache16:00
LoCusFhas anyone tried to compile lftp for IT's ?16:00
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* lardman now has a yellow rubber band for his shoulder16:15
micko_21Hello, how to turn on/off the gps receiver from commandline on N810?16:17
lardmanmicko_21: there's probably some dbus message you could use16:19
lardmanmicko_21: so some listening when you start one of the apps and see what they say16:19
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LoCusFhttp://pastebin.ca/878575 <- any idea what this means (while trying to install to n810). This package installs just fine in scratchbox16:25
lardmanrun out of disk space?16:25
n0ob_could be one possibility16:26
Veggen...or memory card damaged?16:26
Veggen(or wherever it's reading the package from)16:26
n0ob_Veggen: it should be writing to, or? "failed to write"16:26
jkuLoCusF, check that the deb is not damaged in transfer16:26
Veggenmm, looks like it's write yes.16:27
johnxdebian w/ epiphany-webkit: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/debianepiphany-webkit.png16:27
VeggenI'd install strace and run it through that.16:27
LoCusFjku: ok16:28
johnxI guess I should add that the screenshot was taken on an N800 :)16:29
Jaffamichele: you found some info on the technical detail of how it works?16:29
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_collin_working_johnx: oh wow ... are you working on this?16:32
johnxI'm just putting parts together16:33
_collin_working_sure but still a lot of work/knowledge16:33
LoCusFVeggen: you knew16:33
johnxand quite a bit of hacking around :)16:33
micheleJaffa: no, I just read the "how it works" page16:33
LoCusFthe thing is that it was /media/mmc2 that had the problem :/16:33
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jkuLoCusF, what I thought... FAT should be banned16:35
LoCusFjku: yup16:35
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Jaffamichele: ah16:36
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LoCusFdoes someone want the package, it works ok on my n81016:37
micheleJaffa: it says it has a local cache, but when connected you will have better accuracy and updates to the data16:38
micheleand the client on your own device will be updating the global data16:39
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Jaffamichele: very cool. I wonder how likely it is that the connection between device and service is just plain, reproducible, HTTP16:40
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micheleJaffa: for sure it has authentication16:41
michelethere is a tiny example on the site16:42
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micheleJaffa: I would guess at least https16:42
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inzHumm, is there something with my email server or client, or is someone else receiving maemo-dev mails thrice?16:50
TakI'm only getting them once afaict16:51
lardmanI'm ok, perhaps you're just lucky16:51
inzSeems so16:51
lardmanI do seem to get them in the wrong order sometimes though16:51
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Takwhat is with all these trolls on the dev-list?  "I've never used gtk, but qt has a much nicer api..."16:53
Juhazwell, it's not called trolltech for nothing...16:54
Nermalolololol16:54
* Nermal keels over16:54
johnx'night all16:54
* johnx sleeps16:54
lardmanThe sight of C++ does that16:54
lardmanboth falling asleep and keeling over16:54
TakJuhaz: excellent point16:55
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* Nermal unsubscribed from maemo-dev when he couldn't see a way of making the maemo mail app only flash the light and alerts for certain mail folders16:55
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inzTak, I haven't seen any, maybe gmail's spam filter has gone berserk again16:59
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michelehas anybody disassembled an N810 and took pictures?17:01
_collin_working_I guess it is kind of hard to get at the moment, right?17:02
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lophytehey all17:21
Nermallo :)17:21
LoCusFcan I repartition the internal memory card to use ext2?17:23
LoCusFon n810?17:23
_collin_working_what is it? FAT?17:23
LoCusFyeah17:24
_collin_working_it probably is to be useable when the device is in usb-disk mode17:24
_collin_working_that is what you loos if you switch to ext17:24
_collin_working_it will only work on a linux box17:24
lophyteext2 works on the n80017:25
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_collin_working_sure17:25
lophyteit just doesn't auto-mount, you have to mount it manually17:25
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LoCusFwhat about fstab?17:25
lophyteyeah you could probably edit the fstab17:25
lophytethough I think what collin is saying is that you won't be able to plug it into a Windows box and have access to the cards if they're formatted as ext217:26
zorancould you post your fstab?17:26
Nermaladd "auto" to the options :)17:26
MoRpHeUzhey, flash stopped working on my n800's browser...any ideas ? (chinook)17:26
_collin_working_lophyte: that was my point :)17:27
tank-manMoRpHeUz, make sure the plugin is enabled17:27
lophyteI thought so17:27
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lophyteanyone know where canola downloads podcast files to?17:28
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MoRpHeUztank-man: thanks...I dont know how it was disabled (or even more important, who hehe) thanks17:30
MoRpHeUz=)17:30
_collin_working_I was also wondering, since I actually want to download to an external sd card17:30
_collin_working_also I want automatic downloads17:30
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lophyte_collin_working_, me too17:31
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_collin_working_canola looks nice but is way to slow, so right now I download via browser copy via usb and use the mediaplayer17:32
lophyteI don't find it slow17:32
_collin_working_startup time? download speed?17:32
_collin_working_gui is fast17:32
_collin_working_sure17:32
lophytetrue enough17:33
micheleeh, and the mediaplayer has a slow UI too...17:33
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sKaBoyvideocenter works fine for podcast (can save to external card but no automatic dl iirc)17:33
sKaBoyit uses mediaplayer or mplayer to play17:33
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lophytevideocenter eh, maybe I'll give it a try17:36
lophytemaybe I should just write a python script to check for new podcasts and download them17:36
lophyteand run it in a cronjob17:37
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LoCusFok, reformatting now :)17:39
LoCusFbacked up first of course :)17:39
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Jaffamichele: have you downloaded the Skyhook Wireless SDK? http://www.skyhookwireless.com/developers/sdk.php17:43
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JaffaIt claims Linux support (but presumably x86)17:44
LoCusFumm it won't unmount ;(17:44
_collin_working_some app has some open files on it17:44
LoCusFchecked with fuser and lsof, no apps with open files17:44
_collin_working_mmh17:45
_collin_working_what error?17:45
_collin_working_any error17:45
LoCusFdevice or resource busy17:45
_collin_working_cd /17:45
_collin_working_umount ...17:45
zoran/c/c17:45
LoCusFdidn't work :)17:46
LoCusFI was at home folder17:46
LoCusFgaah directory whatnot17:46
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LoCusFoh yeah swap17:49
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LoCusFok disabled swap, that did it17:51
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JaffaWhoa. jku/michele/lardman: registered for Skyhook Wireless SDK. Linux download is indeed Linux 2.6 (x86), however there's a Maemo 3.1 tarball.17:52
BlafaselJaffa: License?17:52
shackanJaffa: what is it?17:53
shackanoh, essid based triangulation..17:54
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lardmanJaffa: ah, that's interesting17:57
maddlerJaffa: I am curious to know if/how it works...17:58
maddlerlardman: lazy bummer! still no blog post! :D17:59
lardmanmaddler: yeah, yeah!17:59
maddlerhehehe17:59
lardmanmaddler: I've got to remember what I was doing first17:59
lardman:)17:59
* Jaffa is checking the executables to see if they're x86 or ARM binaries. Given it's command line it may work on chinook18:01
JaffaAnd this is a development SDK, not a "you can release this" thing18:01
JaffaCommercial releases require $18:01
Jaffawpsd: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, not stripped18:02
maddlerlardman: hehehe... I keep forgetting what I was doing as soon as I switch windows! :D18:02
LoCusFoooh crap18:02
LoCusFthe backup seemed to have failed18:02
BlafaselHmm.. screen would be nice. Hopefully I finally get started tonight with some fiddling18:03
JaffaAny suggestions on what libiw might be?18:05
_collin_working_wireless tools18:05
JaffaYup, Google was my friend18:05
_collin_working_but should be on the device...18:06
_collin_working_or maybe I just linked statically18:06
JaffaNo, it is - but bora had libiw.so.28, chinook has libiw.so.2918:06
_collin_working_right18:07
JaffaBah. segfault.18:09
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BlafaselHmm.. Does "type" work for anyone in a shell?18:11
Taktype? isn't that a DOS command?18:12
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BlafaselUhm. No. Yes, as well.18:13
BlafaselBut obviously that's not what I'm talking about ;)18:13
K-Foxis it difficult to port the x86 application to Maemo linux?18:13
K-Foxubuntu files...18:14
K-Foxgentoo..18:14
lardmanprobably a bit advanced to be included in the default busybox18:14
micheleBlafasel: I think type is a bash builtin18:14
* michele checks18:15
lardmanK-Fox: which application?18:15
michele$ type type18:15
micheletype is a shell builtin18:15
JaffaK-Fox: depends on the application. Varies between works out of the box (e.g. shell scripts, Perl, Python) to really quite tricky (Qt apps, Java)18:15
Blafaselmichele: If you just type "type", does it crash for you?18:15
BlafaselIt does for me, at least.18:15
micheleTak: type is similar to which, but it also tells you if something is an alias or what18:16
micheleBlafasel: haven't tried on an IT18:16
lardmanwell we're using ash not bash18:16
Blafaselmichele: Ah.. Well, that's the problem though ;) Crashes for me (and the shell dies..) if it gets no argument18:16
Takhow unusual18:16
K-Foxjaffa: ok18:17
BlafaselSo "type type" works, "type" tears down the shell (& ssh connection etc.). Odd.18:17
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micheleyes, crashes here too18:20
JaffaBlafasel: there's a bug in Bugzilla about it IIRC18:21
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BlafaselJaffa: Ok, thanks. Have limited connectivity here (this is via ssh/screen/irssi..), couldn't search the web at work.18:22
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|tbb|gotta go cya later18:36
lardmanIs there a version of Octave for os2008 knocking about?18:37
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Stalwartdoes osso-xterm support fonts in .pcf.gz format?18:38
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alteregoGot a new phone from my brother as he bought an N95 8G .. But this damn N80 is locked to Vodaphone and I want to be on Orange ..18:38
alteregoGonna cost me a pretty penny to unlock this bugger ..18:39
lardmancheaper than a new phone though ;)18:39
alteregoI guess.18:39
alteregoI'd still rather not pay.18:39
alteregoLocked phones really p*ss me off ..18:39
zoranalterego, could you just download new softwre and install?18:39
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alteregoCan I do that?18:40
zoranI think so18:40
zoranI have an option for my 623318:40
alteregoI'm really out of touch with the phone side of technology :)18:40
zoranno biggie18:40
lardmanyour brother might be able to get the phone unlocked for you if that doens't work18:40
lardmanonce the network have recouped the cost they tend to unlock them for a fee18:41
alteregolardman, yeah. I was just thinking about that. He should be able to phone up his carrier and get the unlock code right?18:41
lardmanyep, but it normally costs some fee18:41
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lardmanif you can reflash the firmware that's a cheaper option18:41
alteregoHmm18:41
zorannokia site could help18:41
lardman"administration fee" I think they call it ;D18:42
alteregoI'm gonna continue to explore all my avenues before I decide what to do.18:42
alteregoI doubt phoning Nokia and asking them for it will work :)18:42
zoranhm, gmsarena?18:42
lardmanprobably not :)18:42
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lardmanso, no-one's compiled Octave yet?18:43
glassalterego: ask around some unlock shops18:43
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alteregoYeah, I'm gonna pay a visit to my friend who works at the local Nokia authorized dealer place.18:43
glasshehe..18:44
glassi reckon some unofficial places would be better18:44
glasslondons chinatown is full of 'em anyhow18:44
lardmanwhen I look at a page like this: http://packages.debian.org/sid/octave3.0 and see all those deps I don't need, it makes me cry18:44
* lardman must work out how to cleanly remove deps from a debian build package18:45
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lardmanJaffa: what's the deal with the skyhook files then?18:46
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alteregoWow, the mobile web browser on this thing is pretty awesome.18:51
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NermalI got round the lock code on the n80018:52
alteregoObviously that doesn't matter though. As my N810 is for browsing :)18:52
Nermaloh18:52
Nermaldifferent conversation :)18:52
fysaOctave?18:53
fysathe language?18:53
Jaffalardman|gone: segfaulted on running (I cp'ed /lib/libiw.so.29 to /usr/local/lib/libiw.so.28), help was output but running it got sigsegv. Emailed them to ask if they're going to compile a chinook version.18:53
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maddlerok... time to head home...19:00
maddlerl8r dudes...19:00
fysahttp://www.hydrogen-music.org/images/screenshots/hydrogen-0.9.2.png19:01
fysatoo bad it uses Qt :)19:01
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fysamaybe I can statically link?19:01
jkuJaffa, I'm not interested enough to test skyhook. It'll cost money to use and any interesting bits are going to be in the triangulation algorithms which are a) closed and b) patented up the wazoo19:04
fysahttp://gneutronica.sourceforge.net/pattern_editor.png19:05
fysagneutronica compiles :)19:05
Takthat screenshot is completely wrong - I don't see /anything/ on the Cowbell track...19:05
fysahaha19:06
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fysahttp://muth.org/Robert/Trommler/screenshot.3.7.png19:07
fysaTrommler also compiles (not trying PyTrommler yet)19:07
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bilboedso... who should I contact if my maemo rebate code doesn't work ?19:09
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fysahttp://xoops.widelands.org/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/10001/Widelands-reactos.jpg19:17
fysaWidelands is happily compiling now, performance is another matter ;)19:17
fysaStella is also compiling fine -- would you want to add that to xmaeme, Tak?19:17
Jaffajku: true, but I'm in happy happy greedy user mode atm ;-)19:18
fysahmm.  maybe not.19:18
Takdoesn't stella have a builtin launcher? http://stella.sourceforge.net/game-images/launcher.png19:18
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fysaah, I suppose so.19:19
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fysageany compiles -> http://geany.uvena.de/images/geany_main.png19:26
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fysaBTW -- my plan is to debianize these all in sets after I profile apps with similar porting issues together19:27
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lardmanjku: What was the package I need to install in Scratchbox to get those gps headers?19:28
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jkulardman, libgpsbt-dev  iirc19:30
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fysahttp://mange.dynalias.org/linux/gproftpd/screenshots/gproftpd_user_directories.png19:34
bilboedslomo, that patch for mpeg2enc you applied breaks the build here19:34
fysagproftpd compiles fine, the entire gadmintools might be nice to have for some.19:35
bilboedslomo, was meant to send you that on #gstreamer :)19:35
lardman_what's the apt-* command to list the files in a package?19:35
Takdpkg --contents ?19:36
lardman_ah, if it's already installed?19:37
fysaapt-cache showpkg may?19:37
lardman_no, doesn't show contents19:37
lardman_--listfiles perhaps19:37
lardman_yep, dpkg --listfiles19:38
lardman_thanks chaps19:39
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darkiphey, does anyone know if i can mount drives from the host environment in scratch box?19:41
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fysamount --bind19:47
fysaI use mount --bind to mount $HOME/src into /scratchbox/blah/blah/blah/rootstrap/home/jfisher/src19:48
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fysado it in the host environment though.19:48
darkipah, i see now19:49
darkipcheers19:49
fysahttp://quadra.sourceforge.net/images/shot-02.jpg19:50
fysadoesn't compile yet, but looks like it could be fun.  (multiplayer tetris)19:50
* lardman_ needs slice19:51
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fysalincity compiles -> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/6/66/20070102011507!Lincity.png19:55
Tak/lots/ of stuff compiles19:56
Jaffafysa: are you listing every app you've compiled in Scratchbox, cos that could get very boring very quickly ;-)19:57
fysajust the apps that I'd like to debianize19:57
fysabut I'll stop now ;)19:58
lardman_urg, thought I'd be able to compile Octave quickly, but now I remember we're missing a FORTRAN compiler19:58
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Takfysa: go for it, man20:00
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lardman_aaargh! The browser is driving me insane20:12
lardman_On ITT, it takes forever to load a page, even with images turned off20:12
lardman_phew, I feel better now20:12
fysadid you try raising ng render delay in about:config?20:13
lardman_no, what does that do?20:13
lardman_ng?20:13
fysaby default, for me, it was set to -1 which isn't a proper value -- I believe it ends up being 0, which is basically real-time rendering of HTML20:13
lardman_it seems to sit there are loading 14/15, God knows what that is20:13
fysaany tag that comes in gets rendered instantly -- I raised mine to 500, which should wait 500ms before attempting to render.20:14
zuhlardman_: ITT is IMO dog slow even on desktop...20:14
lardman_zuh: yeah, too many bloody pictures20:14
fysapages seem to load faster over-all if you don't bog down the renderer while it's trying to manage all the connections20:14
lardman_fysa: I'll have a look at that, thanks20:15
fysathe default is around 300-1000 as recommended by various mozilla reports/buglist20:15
zuhlardman_: That, and something in the design seems to make the page reflow the whole structure many times20:15
fysathat's what I'm talking about, zuh20:15
fysaif you have it wait a bit before trying to render anything, it seems to waste less time rendering it improperly first20:16
Takhmm20:16
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* Tak will try fysa's tip20:16
fysang paint delay maybe.20:16
alteregoWell, tried "updating" the software and it didn't remove the SIM lock unfortunately.20:17
alteregoGuess I'll have to phone voda crap :/20:17
fysayou can also increase the number of simultaneous connections -- I doubled the default values20:17
lardman_hmm, appears to have locked up loading about:config20:18
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lardman_:(20:23
lardman_just sits there with the scrolly bar half way across and locks up20:23
fysaclose all/restart browser?20:23
lardman_yeah, I've had to kill it a few times already20:23
fysacan you go to a regular page first and then do about:config?20:24
fysain the same window?20:24
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fysaI remember it locking a few times for me before.   I might have had to reboot.20:24
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lardman_like the home page? That doesn't work nor an internet page20:24
lardman_yeah, I need to enable R&D mode anyway20:24
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lardman_do os2007 command line apps work on os2008? I don't see why they wouldn't20:27
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Blafasellardman_: shared libraries, dependencies?20:28
smackpotatogoogle.com20:29
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fysaheh20:30
GeneralAntillesfysa, the paint delay helped a fair bit.20:30
fysawhich value are you using?20:30
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GeneralAntilles50020:31
fysaooo.  Liferea + WebKit would be nice.  v20:31
fysahttp://liferea.sourceforge.net/screenshots/combined.png20:31
GeneralAntillesLooks like it'd fit pretty well.20:32
fysaI want that "Unread" folder.20:32
fysadon't like how the built-in reader makes me scroll through my entire list to see what has new stuff ;)20:33
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Blafaselfysa: Did you talk about nglayout.initialpaint.delay?20:33
fysathat's what it is.20:33
fysanglayout.initialpaint.delay20:33
BlafaselHmm.. -3?20:33
fysaI tried to find an underlying meaning for the negative value, but came up with nothing.20:34
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fysalike GeneralAntilles said, seems to run better set to something sensible20:34
GeneralAntillesThe temporal-adjustment plugin wasn't finished.20:34
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lardman_Blafasel: hopefully backward compatible20:34
smackpotatoi looked at that. changed it to 250. it didnt do much20:35
GeneralAntilleslardman_, some stuff hard-links against the old versions.20:35
fysayou close all browsers/reopen?  250 may still be low.20:35
GeneralAntillesDid you restart it, smackpotato?20:35
GeneralAntillesEr, yeah.20:35
fysait definitely works -- set it to 3000 and you will wait 3 seconds before it renders anything.20:35
fysagiven the speed of our devices/wifi, I would keep it 500 or higher.20:35
DashiadCan someone point me to some code to rotate the screen?20:35
smackpotatook20:36
fysa250 is OK for the desktop20:36
smackpotatoya20:36
fysa(real firefox)20:36
smackpotatok20:37
jottfysa: heh just tested hydrogen you mentioned earlier.. runs quite nice on the n810 :)20:38
fysanice!20:38
lardman_GeneralAntilles, Blafasel: Octave is ok20:38
Blafaselliferea looks really nice20:38
fysajust compile and run?20:38
smackpotatodoes anyone have a utillity that keeps the screen on20:39
fysayes, I am very excited about liferea.20:39
jottfysa: yeah.. debian/sid backport20:39
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jottit seems to miss a fullscreen option though.. :/20:39
fysait uses Qt..20:39
jottquite some space wasted..20:39
fysathat could be why.20:39
lardman_and gnuplot also works from os2007, phew20:40
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jottwell.. qt apps can also support fullscreen ,)20:40
BlafaselOkay, quick poll: I want to get started with small apps for my toy here. I'm earning my money with java/.net and know some perl/shell stuff, but no python, ruby (or C). What would you suggest, what has nice hildon bindings?20:40
jottand it's a typical app you may want to run in fs.20:40
fysamaybe the full-screen button doesn't work with Qt apps?20:40
lardman_Blafasel: Realistically C, but Python is easy and has lots of bindings20:40
jottno..full-screen button does not work for sure.. but i hoped for a menu entry ;)20:41
fysaah20:41
jkuBlafasel, C and python are your only real choices20:41
Blafasellardman_: Are there some nice tutorials on maemo.org somewhere? Hello World in Hildon? ;)20:41
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Blafaseljku: *sigh*.. C then ;)20:41
GeneralAntillesRuby is an option, too.20:41
fysathere are lovely tutorials, Blafasel.20:41
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jottfysa: but otherwise this thing runs amazingly well ..20:41
fysaslick.20:42
jottatleast all the demos play without stutter20:42
lardman_Blafasel: for c or python?20:42
jott(but cpu is at 100% and ui gets a bit sluggish.. but no wonder)20:42
Blafasellardman_: C20:42
jkuGeneralAntilles,"nice bindings" was part of the question...20:43
lardman_well basic gtk+, then some minor tweaks to Hildonise which are in the tutorials20:43
fysawhich version is that, jott?20:43
dphil9000i'd take -1 to mean disabled, like boolean false20:43
fysa"Fixed various bugs related to Jack audio driver; Fixed 100% CPU usage bug."20:43
Blafasellardman_: Okay, will search for gtk+ stuff then20:43
fysathat's as of 22 Feb 0620:43
jottfysa: oh.. 0.9.3 ..20:43
fysaah, that's latest anyway20:44
fysawait -20:44
fysa0.9.3 was releasd on 22 Feb 0620:44
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jottwell it's 400Mhz so we can assume 100% cpu usage is quite reasonable while mixing multiple tracks and doing fancy ui effects ;)20:44
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fysasvn is newer.20:44
fysadefinitely :)20:44
fysathat will be a fun app to play with on the plane.20:44
lardman_Blafasel: For quick stuff Python is quite good though20:45
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fysadphil9000: for paintdelay?  I thought so also, but it's impossible to disable.  It ends up defaulting to 0 delay.20:45
dphil9000hmm20:45
jottfysa: yeah.. i also have schism tracker running... also quite nice (more of an oldskool tracker)20:46
lardman_drat, ssh isn't working20:46
Blafasellardman_: Not my style, if those two options are the best I'll prefer brushing up my (weak) C skillsets20:46
* jott starts 2nd Reality - Unreal ][ (PM).s3m in schism tracker on his n810 :)20:47
fysagneutronica and trommler are simple drum machine-type interfaces that seem to work20:47
lardman_Blafasel: Python can also be altered on the device, no compiler needed, which may be an advantage20:47
fysaone of those may be OSS though20:47
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melmothplus python comes with a nice pygtk tutorial :)20:48
lardman_I hate that tutoria;20:48
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lardman_I'd far prefer a book20:49
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TakVala!20:49
melmotha book on pygtk ? Is there one ?20:49
LoCusFwhat the heck is Vala?20:49
lardman_I don't think so20:49
melmoththe only gtk book i saw were c targeted20:49
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Takhttp://live.gnome.org/Vala20:49
* lardman_ just doesn't like online tutorials20:49
dphil9000voila?20:49
jkuVala seems really cool, but haven't tried anything other than a Hello world20:50
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Takce n'est pas "voila" :-P20:50
Takjku: xmaeme 0.13 is in vala20:50
fysaooo20:50
jkutak, oh? nice20:51
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fysayeah, vala is what you should use Blafasel. ;)20:51
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fysahttp://live.gnome.org/Vala/HildonSample20:51
LoCusFcool that the GNOME guys realized that pure C isn't the thing for newbies these days :)20:51
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Blafaselfysa: Vala looks interesting, yes20:52
maddlerhey ho!20:52
BlafaselMight be even a better choice for me20:52
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jkuThey're planning to automatically generate bindings, but I'm not sure how complete the current ones are...20:54
|tbb|re20:54
Takthe gtk and hildon bindings are pretty complete20:54
Takat least for hildon-1 and hildon-fm-220:55
jkunice, I'll have to take a look20:55
fysaI can't find the daphne source?20:56
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lardman_What does the NMEA message PNOKU do/mean?20:56
fysaoh, there it is.20:57
jkuis there such a message?20:57
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lardman_indeed, looking at strings, and from a google: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13452720:57
jkulardman_, just because a device outputs it doesn't mean it's nmea. a lot of manufacturers make up their own messages20:58
lardman_yeah, I was wondering what it meant though, it's certainly not standard20:58
lardman_my fault for not explaining20:58
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jkuyes, right20:59
lardman_The start letter P stands for proprietary21:00
jkuoh, I didn't even know that. Never worked with them, just noticed they exist21:01
jkuthe next 3 letters are supposed to be a manufacturer code apparently... "NOK"21:02
lardman_http://www.windmill.co.uk/nmea.html for example21:02
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lardman_allows lots of devices to provide and you can decide what you want21:03
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BlafaselIs there any lib/api to control this nice led on the corner of my n810?21:05
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|tbb|Blafasel: you can define colors etc. by /etc/mce/mce.ini and later start or stop it by dbus21:06
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BlafaselAh, thanks21:09
|tbb|inform me if you find out whats the njoy format ;)21:10
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fysahttp://www.happypenguin.org/images/vultures2shop.png - this should work fine (slashem/nethack with isometric 2D graphics)21:11
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jottwho needs a lava lamp when you can have "PatternPsychedelia" ;)21:12
lardman_jku: I've grabbed those headers, am going to take a look at the gspdriver file to see what arguments it takes21:12
jkuI assume the libs just push something to the control socket (defined in one header)21:13
|tbb|jott: this was one of the main goal from the designer of the n810, n900 replace coffee machine hopefully21:13
* Tak agree with |tbb| 21:14
lardman_jku: yes, I'll take a look at that, depending on how complex the code is21:14
jkucool21:14
lardman_supper first, will be back a bit later on21:14
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jott|tbb|: hmm yeah a portable coffee machine would definitely be something i would consider a worthwile upgrade ;)21:16
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jottfor now it can only be used as a Coffee Tablet (CT) ;)21:17
fysaCoffee Table(t)?21:17
jottisn't that a typical usecase? transport hot coffee with a n810? ;)21:19
TakI just download it from the nearest Wireless Coffee Point21:20
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jottah via a virtual coffee network?21:21
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darkiphmm, i've just realised navit is crap.21:31
darkipand i've been porting it for the last few days..21:31
darkiphow annoying...21:31
vandenoeverwill there be maemo people at fosdem this year?21:32
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darkipwhat are other people's opinions on navit?21:34
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fysanever tried it21:35
fysahow is Roadster?21:35
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darkipRoadster?21:35
darkipi know roadnav is ported but there's no UK maps21:35
darkipwhich means it's useless to me21:35
fysahmm, maybe dead21:35
darkipi pretty much have navit working in scratchbox21:35
darkipbut i suddenly realised, it's rubbish21:36
fysahttp://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/attachments/linux/34562d1157775234-linux-gps-roadster-roadster-0.2.4-1.png21:36
darkipor at least the version i have (CVS) can't seem to find places by location21:36
darkipmaybe the CVS version is bust...21:37
darkiphmm21:37
darkipi'll have a look into roadster...21:37
GeneralAntillesIf anybody is interested: http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/7/21:37
fysahttp://www.gnomad-mapping.com/21:38
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TakGeneralAntilles: that one's a must-have21:39
fysaslick21:39
BlafaselGeneralAntilles: ;-) I thought the youtube (flash) support was one of the main selling points, but I see the need ;)21:39
* Tak read that as gonad-mapping.com21:39
GeneralAntillesBlafasel, the idea is to only load the flash stuff you want to see. :)21:39
fysamaybe ITT will be usable now ;)21:40
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darkipfysa: nice :)21:40
Blafaselfysa: That map stuff looks nice, but - I never ever got one useable GPS connection with my device.21:40
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BlafaselIt happend _once_, at home. Never outside (and never again in my flat either). Seems like I used it up ;)21:40
darkipah but it lacks navigation21:41
BlafaselWhy does the browser need a double-restart, though?21:41
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fysahttp://raphael.slinckx.net/deskbar/screenshots.php#current21:48
fysathat would be nice.21:48
GeneralAntillesLooks like Spotlight.21:49
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fysanice for quick/limited keyboard input situations21:49
sp3000dunno, afaiui fx does a kind of double start internally on some extension stuff, maybe this one doesn't do that21:49
GeneralAntillesSpotlight + Quicksilver21:49
fysayes21:49
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sp3000but I'm guessing at random since I don't know crap about the fx startup em restart foo either :D21:50
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jottfysa: isn't this deskbar thingie written in python?21:51
fysayes, you would probably have to pry gnome out of it kicking-and-screaming though.21:51
jottor build python gnome bindings :P21:52
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BlafaselGnome Do is a nice app21:57
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darkipcan anyone recommend the best linux GPS app for me to port?22:03
inzwhat kind of gps app are you looking for?22:04
darkipone including support for offline navigation22:05
darkipand use of decent maps22:05
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darkipany ideas?22:08
darkipI've already had a look at "navit" but the version i compiled didn't seem to work (even outside of scratchbox)22:08
inzfree offline navigation would be cool22:09
darkipindeed22:09
darkipi mean i had navit running within scratchbox22:10
darkippretty usable22:10
darkipbut then i suddenly realised that it wouldn't find locations22:10
darkipwhich makes it pretty useless for navigation22:10
darkipit might be because i was compiling from their CVS22:10
darkipso i might have a try with a release and see what i get22:10
inzif someone hacked the navicore map format...22:10
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|tbb|is there a tool which could monitor changes to gconf (is this the name for nix registry?) entries22:13
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darkipback, stupid internet cutting out...22:14
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lardmannot managed to look at gpsdriver yet, but does anyone know what the difference between libm_pic.a and libm.a is?22:15
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||cw|tbb|: gconf is gnomes configuration system22:15
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Taklardman: libm_pic is compiled with -fPIC ?22:15
|tbb|is there a possibilty to monitor changes ?22:16
Takiirc you can register a callback for a given key22:17
lardmanTak: Ah, ok22:17
lcuktbb, you mean like regmon but for *ux22:17
|tbb|lcuk, right22:17
* lcuk misses all the sysinternals tools22:18
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|tbb|install wine, lol22:18
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lcuklol it wouldnt exactly work the same22:18
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Tak|tbb|: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gconf/stable/gconf-GConfClient.html#gconf-client-notify-add22:18
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lardmanbrb22:21
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|tbb|k, wanted to know if there is some basic tools which allready installed to do that22:21
inztbb, the maemo version of gconf uses d-bus... :)22:22
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blahdeblah:'( My N800 won't charge.22:22
darkipdodgy charger?22:23
blahdeblahI left it plugged into the A/C adapter all night, came back this morning, and it was flat.22:23
darkipi've heard a few people have that problem...22:23
blahdeblahdarkip: I'm about to check it with the multimeter, but i don't think so.22:23
darkipgot another nokia charger which will fit it?22:23
lcukmy 810 goes from 100% charge in evening to dead when i get back from work22:23
lcukit even tells me to unplug it to save power22:23
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blahdeblahdarkip: My friend a few doors down does - i'll try it as soon as i get a chance.22:23
lcuki have nothing running (bare desktop) no connects22:23
lcukblah, was the plug swithced on at the wall?22:24
|tbb|ive got the same on my n800 till i found out the cable of the charger was broken22:24
blahdeblahThis has happened to me once before, but i just removed it for a while and put it back in and it was fine.  This time that didn't work.22:24
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blahdeblah|tbb|: Time to pull out the multimeter, i guess...22:24
darkiplol...22:24
lcukblah, does it tell you its charging when you insert it22:24
VeggenMy n810 discharges too quickly, now, too, I think.22:25
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darkipwoah, idea22:25
lcuki got back tonight and it was totally dead :(22:25
darkipwould it be possible to port google earth for maemo?22:25
blahdeblahlcuk: No, i just gave the "feed me some electrons" picture22:25
darkiphmm22:25
blahdeblahHowever, i just went up to it now and it says charging!  :-(22:25
blahdeblahWeird22:25
darkiplol22:25
Veggendarkip: probably not, isn't it wine-based on Linux?22:26
blahdeblahdarkip: I'm not laughing22:26
|tbb|blah cable ?22:26
blahdeblah|tbb|: Sure sounds like it, doesn't it?22:26
* lcuk spent hours charging his mobile yesterday before realising the usb at the other end was disconnected22:26
blahdeblahWell, on another topic, does this have any relevance to maemo?  http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2008-01-28.460571823622:26
|tbb|ive got exact the same issue, at night i charged it set up the alarm next day i was late cause battery wont charge ;)22:27
BlafaselWithout reading the link I guess you talk about Nokia buying TT22:27
blahdeblahBlafasel: yep22:27
BlafaselThere are quite some blog entries about this. Short answer: Not in the near future, it seems22:27
BlafaselCheck ITT22:27
blahdeblahCool22:27
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fysahttp://tecnocode.co.uk/misc/totem-youtube.png22:27
blahdeblahI wonder if TT can run maemo web sites any better than Nokia can.22:28
lcukanyone sussed how to get m.youtube.com working?22:28
lcukblah, nokia run maemo sites perfectly well.  they are all run from a single n810 running maemo :D22:29
* blahdeblah still wants to rattle some cages on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1896 - any suggestions? It started affecting the official Nokia repositories the other day...22:29
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fysahttp://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/10/16/using-youtubes-gdata-api-in-linux-desktop-applications22:32
fysacool.22:32
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lcukblahdeblah, is there anyway to manually enter the correct DNS server into hosts (dont know if it exists on maemo) and bypass akamai ?22:33
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lcukdns entry*22:33
blahdeblahlcuk: I tried that22:35
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blahdeblahSomeone here gave me an IP address that worked, and i manually overrode the whole domain on my local DNS server, but it didn't have the desired effect - i didn't have time to work out why.22:36
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lcukdoesnt each subdomain need its own entry in hosts22:37
GeneralAntillesblahdeblah, did you ever try from another connection?22:37
lcukie, changing maemo.org isnt enough22:37
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blahdeblahlcuk: I changed the one that was giving me the 401 errors - repository.maemo.org22:37
blahdeblahGeneralAntilles: The only places i've been able to try from are with the same ISP i use at home.22:38
lcukchange your dns server to one in another country22:38
lcukto a country which works22:38
lcukfsk the lot basically22:39
blahdeblahlcuk: And which supports recursive queries?  That could be hard to find.22:39
blahdeblahGeneralAntilles: I might be able to try from another location this morning, but they use 802.1x on their wifi network - does Maemo work with that?22:39
* lcuk doesnt know how a dns server can be different, in the ones ive used it either worked or it didnt22:41
glasssome servers answer just certain queries if outside their network22:41
lcukahhhh (i just read as well) so if the server itself doesnt know the address if the client is outside the network the dns will just give up without asking its parent22:42
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BlafaselHmm.. I have lots of trouble with Skype/Gizmo being "muted". Is that a known problem?22:44
michelethere is always opendns, if you need one22:48
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alteregoNot much good free software for the N80/Series 60 devices ..22:54
BlafaselHrmpf.. No chat with the gf tonight. Both tools let me hear her, but not the other way 'round. Time to buy a headset, I guess.22:54
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BlafaselHmm.. Are the sdk-vmware image guys around here?22:59
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lcukblaf, whats up with it (not that i could help, but someone might)23:00
Blafasellcuk: The netwrking doesn't work here and trying to fix it (running a dhcp client manually etc.) needs root privileges. No idea how to get those23:01
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lcukoooer dunno, but i had a problem with vmware net on win here.  i had disabled the windows end of the connection after installing vmware so nothing i did inside the box would help23:03
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maddlergret iGo BT keyboard works great both on N800 and N810 :)23:07
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|tbb|http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/28/skyfire-browser-for-windows-mobile-is-game-changing-does-flash/23:12
lcukBlafasel, have you tried using "sudo -s" to put yourself  root for the session, its just appeared to work for me23:13
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|tbb|maddler: congrats, i would like to have it too23:15
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xmentwhere to obtain latest builds of evince for os2008?23:19
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Blafasellcuk: Got it, thanks. Reading the vala samples already (with quite some headache.. This is really new to me)23:36
darkiphmm, i think i've found the perfect candidate23:36
darkipgpsdrive looks good23:36
darkipand it was ported for the 770 so shouldn't be too much work...23:36
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cesmandarkip: Maemo Mapper?23:40
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||cwdarkip: I don't think gpsdrive was ever fully ported23:41
||cwmaemo mapper is based on it though23:41
darkiphmm23:42
darkipbut maemo mapper has no offline navigation23:42
darkipwhereas gpsdrive does (I think)23:42
||cwsure it does, you just have to load the map images first23:42
||cwor do you mean route planning?23:42
darkiproute planning23:43
darkipi'd class that under navigation, but i know what you mean23:43
chuckroksmaemo-sdk was successful but couldn't update the local package DB.  Can I ignore it?23:43
maddler|tbb|: paid less than 50E23:44
maddler|tbb|: not that expensive23:44
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|tbb|maybe  i will pick one by time23:45
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maddlerfyi -> http://www.mymemory.co.uk/memory/iGo/Stowaway/Ultra-Slim/Bluetooth/Keyboard23:50
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fysahttp://griffith.berlios.de/pages/screenshots.php23:55
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