IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-01-21

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b0unc3wow... pokylinux rox :)00:09
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Andy80zerojay: default email client sucks :(00:15
GeneralAntillesYes, everybody knows.00:15
Andy80zerojay: I tried to add my gmail account (telling it to download only last 50 email... because I've 15.000+ messages in my account), and it was always blocked :(00:16
Andy80slow like a... bradipo :)00:17
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Xamuskpokylinux? can't peolpe stick to only one embedded system?00:19
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pupnikyeah it'd be nice if ITOS became some kind of new standard00:23
zerojayThe default client suites me just fine. Does what I need.00:24
pupnikbut then again, competition is also good00:24
GeneralAntillesIf Ubuntu Mobile ever gets going . . .00:24
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jacksterUbuntu Mobile seems like it's gonna be pretty similar to ITOS00:30
jacksterapparently it's gonna use Maemo as the interface00:30
jacksterwhich would probably mean a lot of the libs from ITOS get used on Ubuntu aswell00:31
jacksterI was at a talk by Mark Shuttleworth a while ago at aKademy 200700:32
jacksterhe was saying how Internet Tablets seem like the sort of place where Linux could become the standard operating which people expect, like how they expect windows on a computer00:32
hugolphttp://www.redferret.net/?p=953300:32
Andy80I really would like to see ubuntu mobile on my tablet :)00:33
GeneralAntillesjackster, you mean matchbox/hildon00:33
GeneralAntillesmaemo is the development environment00:33
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XamuskI would like to have a tablet :(00:33
GeneralAntillesThen go and buy one. :P00:33
jacksterGeneralAntilles: yeah00:33
hugolpnew nokia S60 touch found?00:34
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jacksterhttp://home.kde.org/~akademy07/videos/1-06-Keynote-Shuttleworth.ogg00:35
XamuskI want to... but here's too expensive and I still didn't find a good way to ship one to here00:35
jacksterthat's the speech by shuttleworth, sorry bout the video freezing up quite often00:35
|tbb|anyone got wirelesstools installed00:36
XamuskI mean, who would pay the equivalent of around $750 for a N80000:36
Xamusk?00:36
zerojayPeople that want one in your country, apparently.00:36
Xamuskyes00:38
Xamuskbut my budget is pretty low, and I don't really want to pay that for something I see for less than $230 at some stores00:39
b0unc3also mamona looks very very nice :)00:39
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lcuk_2Print out a picture of a nokia n8x0 and pretend you have one until you get enough money to get a real one00:39
hugolpwho choosed the name of "mamona"?00:40
hugolpmamona means "sucker girl" in spanish00:40
hugolpXD00:40
b0unc3hugolp: indt I suppose :)00:40
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Xamuskmamona is a fruit00:49
Xamuskor something like a fruit00:49
Xamuskactually, it looks like the O in the mamona logo00:50
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Lynoure"Mamona (sometimes also Mamuna) is a synonim for Mammon - demon described in New Testament as a demon of wealth and greed"00:51
hugolpLynoure: I guess a "sucker girl" could be described as a demon of wealth and greed XD00:52
hugolphonestly mamona is spanish means sucker girl, thats why it shocked me00:52
Xamuskactually, INdT, Nokia's institute of technology is here in Brazil... that's who launched mamona00:52
Lynourehugolp: heh, though I have no idea what "sucker girl" actually means00:52
hugolpLynoure:  a girl that sucks00:53
hugolpsucks in the meaning of the thing you do with the libs00:53
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Lynourecompile first springs to mind as a think to do with libs :)  But I'm an innocent geek.00:54
Tama^2mammona in italian means: a girl heavily dependent on her mother...00:55
Tama^2yeah I though about linking the "liBs"00:55
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Xamuskdamn...00:56
LynoureTama^2: sounds like Finnish maamo (which I always think of when I see maemo written)00:56
Tama^2but it does not sound naughty at all00:56
LynoureTama^2: but can be any gender.00:56
XamuskI just found out I lived near one of the INdT offices00:56
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Xamuskdamn00:56
LynoureXamusk: isn't that... well... good?00:56
Tama^2Lynoure: :) in italian you change the ending of the word to convey the different gender. In this case mammonE (boy) / mammonA (girl)00:57
XamuskLynoure, not if the verb is in the past00:57
* petergunn wonders what channel hes in?00:57
Lynourehmm, should try evince. :)00:57
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Tama^2petergunn: this is IRC, what were you expecting? people to be on topic? :P00:58
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petergunnusually is just geeks complaining about people not talking about Gtk00:58
XamuskWhere does the name Mamona come from? ΒΆ00:58
XamuskIn Brazilian Portuguese Mamona means the castor oil plant, the source of oil and biodiesel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_bean00:58
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b0unc3uhm... no vkb on mamona... that's bad..01:11
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pupnikok last frreakin attempt at a faster build tonight01:29
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lcuk_2still on dosbox01:30
lcuk_2for a python/gtk app is it possible to invert all colors (as a quick app specific option) of the theme.  big white buttons look awful i want them dark with light text in them01:31
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hugolpcanola looks good actually, does anybody know if it has upnp?01:38
darkipDon't think so but don't quote me on that01:40
tank-man<darkip> Don't think so but don't quote me on that01:41
darkipLol...01:41
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hugolpXD01:42
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k-shugolp: not yet01:45
k-shugolp: we'll provide it as an open source plugin (some day) :-D01:45
hugolpk-s:  canola is written in python right?01:45
hugolpyou could use coherence01:45
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darkipWhy are you after upnp anyways01:47
hugolpdarkip:  cause I have a upnp server?01:47
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darkipHmm, spose that was a pretty dumb question :p01:48
k-shugolp: yes, python01:49
k-syes, we could use coherence01:49
k-sbut the plugin will use BRisa, a similar project, with the same roots (based on same libs/code)01:49
k-sthe reason is because brisa is developed by an university that is partner of indt, they're doing the plugin01:50
hugolpI c01:50
k-showever I already talked to dev, he can see how it's done and provide coherence as well01:50
k-swe'd like as much plugins as possible01:50
k-smaybe youtube integration, etc01:50
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hugolpand will canola accept plugins at some point?01:52
k-shugolp: actually everything is a plugin01:52
k-salready01:52
k-swe just need to iron the apis and doc them01:52
hugolpgood then01:52
k-swe have the basics done, but needs a bit more work01:52
k-swe're trying to publish that version and now bugfixes01:53
hugolpany link or blog where I can check for updates?01:53
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k-sthen we'll try to write some new plugins and see if we can fit or need extensions, do and then users should get som free software examples01:53
k-shugolp: just read planet maemo, or blog from indt guys01:54
k-slike me: http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br01:54
pupnikhttp://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/oprofile  thanks to the people who made the oprofile docs01:54
k-sbut I'm not posting too much "marketing and news" lately, just tech posts01:54
hugolpyeah, read your blog from the efl maemo page01:54
k-skenneth (http://codeposts.blogspot.com/) is more like that01:54
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hugolpk-s:  btw how can I make canola load album and artist images?01:55
k-sartist?01:55
hugolpyeah, musicians?01:56
hugolpload the cover images01:56
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k-shugolp: u need to use external scripts02:13
k-shugolp: there is a project on garage called: canola-tuning02:13
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mozillar_hello02:22
mozillar_is it possible to use the camera on the N800 with Adobe Flash Player?02:23
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mozillar_like to do a YouTube quick capture with Adobe Flash in the web browser?02:24
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pupnikyet another reason to kick adobe in the nads02:29
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nwidgerhello, im having troubles accessing my razr phone over bluetooth with my n81002:44
nwidgerwhen i click the phone in file manager i just get the message 'Unable to connect to remote device'02:44
nwidgerdoes anyone know what's wrong?  the pairing was successful so i dont really know what else to do02:45
elbis bluetooth turned on on your phone, or did you turn it on "temporarily" for pairing?02:46
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elb(most Motorola phones have such an option)02:46
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nwidgerelb: no the phone says bluetooth power is on02:46
elband does it list the tablet as a known device in its 'connections' screen?02:47
elb(assuming it's anything like my v551)02:47
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nwidgerelb: the only thing like that is 'device history', and the tablet is listed there02:48
elbthen we're beyond my ability to help; doubtless someone with more clue will step up, if you can wait a bit :-)02:50
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pupnikhttp://pupnik.de/dosbox_N8x0.tgz  new test build of dosbox 0.72 cvs optimized for n800 / n810 - give it a shot, put mapper.txt in /home/user or so and point to it in the .dosboxrc conf02:58
pupnikseems to go up to 2400-3000 cycles, compared to 770's 800-110002:59
pupnikunfortunately the sb16 emulation frequently chokes at higher cycles, requiring me to reduce them to about 1000-1600.  the mapper.txt will allow fullscreen toggle and cycle adjustment with plus/minus03:00
pupnikbbl03:07
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johnxTrying to compile a kernel for the N800/2008OS that shows boot messages..Can anyone point me in the right direction?03:10
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johnxAm I just missing something obvious? I can't seem to find any way to disable this...03:53
johnx(the boot logo that is)03:53
johnxif I enable r&d mode will I be able to see boot messages?03:55
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proteousno04:03
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Xamuskwhat's that red/blue pill mode stuff?04:05
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oilgood morning.04:06
proteousif you install xterminal you can look at dmesg04:06
proteoushttp://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/redpill.html04:08
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johnxI'm in the process of getting a more complete debian system booting off of my SD card, so the overall goal is to somehow see what's happening as the device boots04:17
proteousah04:17
johnxI think I'll try getting debian to start up usb networking early on and run a small telnet server04:18
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lcuk_2Finally04:28
lcuk_2that took some bloody hassle.04:29
proteousfinaly got that round peg forced into that square hole?04:29
lcuk_2johnx, i remember someone saying they managed to get some decent stats out of 800 whilst booting04:29
proteousyou probably should have just used the round hole, or the square peg04:29
lcuk_2the guy is called "sibbe" and came in here on jan 7th quite impressed with himself04:30
lcuk_2http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-01-07.log.html04:30
lcuk_2http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/jvtmuukk/chinook/bootchart/bootchart-n800-os2008-001-mmc_first_try.png04:30
johnxhmm...maybe the kernel doesn't actually have a console enabled??04:31
lcuk_2proteous, it was google foo i was lacking, every search on the log came back with nothing04:31
lcuk_2i saw your question and though (like you) that you could just get rid of the boot image04:31
lcuk_2but it seems not04:31
johnxlcuk_2, and I know it's not something running in Maemo's init.d because I actually test-booted from my debian chroot already04:33
johnxI have no idea how successful it was though ... because I couldn't see anything. :)04:33
johnxhmm...looks like there are built-in hooks for bootchart?04:36
johnxfun04:37
lcuk_2he gives more of an explaination when he returned on the 9th04:37
lcuk_2http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-01-09.log.html04:37
lcuk_2http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-01-09.log.html04:37
lcuk_2crap04:37
johnxah. thanks04:37
lcuk_2at about 00:15.  anyway, its way above what i could accomplish with my knowledge for now.  if you can make anything of it then great :)04:38
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johnxI'm not seeing support for a framebuffer console...Could the kernel actually not be built with support for it04:46
johnx?04:46
johnxI mean I guess it would save space04:46
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johnxwoo! at least I know init starts running scripts in /etc/init.d05:42
proteousheh05:42
johnxI mean, I know that debian's init starts and starts at least the first script in rcS.d05:43
johnxand now we have usbnet05:47
johnxmy telnetd won't let me connect though :/05:47
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proteousmaybe some sort of serial console over USB05:49
johnxI think that actually might be more difficult...if I can't make the telnetd server work in another couple tries I might reconsider05:50
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ianloic_hey, is there a person to talk to about the N810 device program? I've been accepted but my number hasn't worked in the US store.05:56
ianloic_None of the emails have any end-user-serviceable reply email address05:57
proteousdon't know myself06:02
johnxI have no idea. Last I heard it was still up in the air.06:04
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ianloic_ahh wells06:10
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oilwhat is the talk about n810 having fm-radio transmitter?06:21
proteousreciever maybe06:21
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oilthere is some sites that says that n810 would have the transmitter as well06:26
johnxmaybe it was planned at some point, but not included in the final hardware?06:28
oilmight be. at least there is Nokia FM-transmitter (car plug) offered at the n810 nokia homepage06:29
johnxif the FCC didn't have a section on their report on the N810 then it doesn't have an FM transmitter though...06:30
johnxalso: woo! haha! booted debian on an N800 and logged in via usbnet06:30
proteousnice06:31
johnxthat was actually pretty easy once I gave up on a physical console06:31
proteousheh06:32
johnxjust a couple lines in the first script that init runs to start usbnet and utelnetd06:32
johnxnow I need to figure out why it won't go multiuser :/06:33
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johnxoh...it did go multiuser. runlevel is just broken O_o06:40
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johnxlooks like the N800 wireless drivers sill don't support wireless extensions 18, so no way to use wpa_supplicant :/07:57
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pupnikargh, sneezing while eating ramen sends it up my noze08:08
pupnik<- noodlenose08:08
johnxoh nose!08:08
pupnikit stings08:08
johnxramen sounds delicious right now though08:08
pupnikin the local stores i can get cases of yum yum ramen very cheap08:08
pupnikalso some 'mama'  brand08:08
pupnikfrankfurt near the trainstation has a great asian grocery with many many kinds of ramen08:09
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pupnikyou are awake at an interesting time johnx08:10
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johnxcheck my IP :)08:11
johnxI'm in Japan08:11
pupnikwow08:11
pupnikever see the movie 'lost in translation' starring bill murray?08:12
johnxactually, I don't think so08:12
johnxwhen you said ramen I was thinking of a local ramen place, actually :D08:12
pupnikdirected by sofia coppola.  very good.  if you ever take business trips.  it has a special reality08:12
pupnikyou jerk08:12
pupnikhave you been in japan for long?08:13
johnxlike 10 months or so08:13
|Rhehe08:14
|Rramen like in: Tampopo ? ;)08:14
* |R is going to japan on the 28th of mars!08:14
pupnikgood movie08:14
pupnikyou jerk08:14
johnxpupnik, jeez. don't be mad. I'll mail you some ramen08:15
pupnik:)08:15
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pupnikmake a video of something in tokyo!08:15
johnxI don't have a video camera. :(08:16
pupnikor tkae a pic08:16
johnxthere: http://flickr.com/photos/johnxx/452167931/08:17
|Rjohnx : any hint for a 19 days trip? :)08:17
johnx|R, Are you interested in temples and shrines or more into doing stuff in the city?08:17
johnxpupnik, actually I think my wife took that pick. ;) It was my camera though. :P08:18
pupnikoh whatever pic you like08:18
pupnikty08:18
johnxpoke at that page more and you get to see my tiny apartment O_o08:18
pupnikwow futuristic08:18
pupniksmall!08:19
johnxthe main room is behind me in that pic I think08:19
* johnx looks back at flickr page08:19
pupnikclean08:19
johnxnotice the suitcases? just moved in when that pic was taken08:20
johnxnot as clean now08:20
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oiljohnx: how big is your apartment?08:45
johnxyou want that in feet, meters or tatami mats?08:46
|Rhaha08:46
oilI suppose the rooms can be small, but the bathroom need to be huge so that the toilet seat integrated with expresso machine, internet and bed can fit in :)08:47
johnxit's just a plain toilet :/08:47
johnxbut it has the power outlet so I can buy a replacement toilet seat with all the functions08:47
oilm2 would be good. do you use asian size for apartments or european?08:47
johnxwell, I'm american so I think in x feet by y feet08:48
johnxbut the guys selling the apartment think in number of tatami mats (I'm really not kidding)08:49
oilwhat is the size for it?08:49
|Rhaha08:49
|Rtry to convert that in google ;)08:49
johnxlet me measure quick, don't remember any more08:49
|R(doesn't work :( )08:50
pupnikas long as u makin money08:50
pupnikhttp://www.pupnik.de/pupnik_4am.jpg  my evening 'field testing' new dosbox08:51
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johnxso maybe the main room part of the apartment is ~9ft by ~14ft08:53
johnxthen the hallway that you see in the pic08:53
pupniki would have problems with that08:53
oiljohnx: thinking in a positive way. you don't need to have many friends to have a great party at your apartment :)08:53
johnxoil, ahahaha...it's so true08:54
johnxmaybe 5 people total and the place is pretty full08:55
johnxand alcohol is very cheap to buy at the stores...08:55
johnxpupnik, it's a little tight08:55
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johnxpupnik, I'm confused: how does that picture have anything to do with dosbox?08:56
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pupnikthat was me testing dosbox tonight in the park09:00
pupnikwith a becks09:00
johnxah, just without a pic of a tablet running dosbox? :P09:00
johnxcool pic though09:01
pupnika few nice surprises tonight, 1942 was faster than i dreamed09:01
pupnikty09:01
pupnikbut there are a lot of problems left to sort out09:01
pupnikyah no tablet09:01
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johnxwell I've been making a little progress on getting debian booting on the N800, but it's not really "usable" in any way right now09:02
pupnikwow09:02
johnxit boots, usb networking works, and I can run utelnetd and login09:03
johnxno physical console, no xserver, no wifi, no sound, no powersaving, no cpufreq, no access to builtin NAND09:04
pupnikwell that's all... frills09:05
johnx:D09:05
johnxthat's what I keep telling people09:05
pupnikwell my little coaster on the bell curve of consciousness is off the far edge09:07
pupnikwell below the poitn where i should be on a puter09:07
pupnik- cheers09:07
johnxg'night09:07
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irqmy n810 is f'd up... reboot loop. i've managed to stop it from looping with the disable-watchdog flasher thing, and i can ssh into it, but i'm having trouble figuring out what it causing the watchdog to go off09:38
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irqany ideas on where to look? obviously /var/log isn't a choice09:38
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johnxirq, anything can cause it it seems09:41
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johnxI tried to add an alsa gstreamer plugin and ended up in reboot loop09:41
irqfrom what i've read on internettablettalk it's probably the recent rtcomm update09:41
irqwhich updated the package osso-accounts-plugin-idle09:41
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johnxthat could be it then09:41
irqany idea on how i can either confirm that or get the files that the original osso-accounts-plugin-idle had?09:41
johnxI didn't add the new rtcomm stuff09:41
johnxah09:42
irqjohnx... may i beg you... to tar up your osso-accounts-plugin-idle files and send them to me?09:42
irqreally all i need is /usr/lib/libaccounts-plugins*09:42
johnxhang on a sec09:42
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johnxI need to reboot my tablet back into maemo09:42
irqthanks!09:42
irqwhat were you using? kde?09:42
johnxdebian :)09:42
irqoh :)09:43
irqi saw a kde build recently09:43
LoCusFdebian sid works, right?09:43
irqis there no way to get a .deb for the osso-accounts-plugin-idle previous version?09:43
johnxirq, I should be able to make you one with dpkg-repack09:43
johnxLoCusF, in a chroot yes09:43
irqdamn john, that'd be the most awesome thing in the whole world09:43
irqi also need to look into some sort of method for making an exact bootable duplicate of internal flash onto my sd card09:44
LoCusFor then search via apt-cache the correct version and then install it: apt-get install osso-accounts-plugin-idle=version09:44
irqy'know, like dd if=/dev/sda but that would work on this nokia thing.09:44
johnxI can make it boot and get usbnet but I'm missing the following: sound, touchscreen, video of any sort, sound, power saving, wireless, bluetooth and access to the clock09:44
johnxsearch for "boot from sd n800" and you'll find what you want09:45
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johnxit's a little bit involved, but if you follow directions it works out fine09:45
irqok cool09:45
johnxirq, try apt-cache policy osso-accounts-plugin-idle09:45
johnxand tell me if you see an older version available in a repository09:45
irqno :(09:45
irqjust 0.2-1.209:45
irqhaving trouble making a package?09:46
johnxit'll just take a while09:46
johnxI have to get dpkg-repack installed again09:46
irqoh that's fine, thanks so much!09:46
irqi hope this fixes it09:46
irqare there really no log files anywhere?09:46
johnxhopefully it will09:46
irqis there a way to enable logging of watchdog?09:46
johnxnot that I know of09:46
johnxthat doesn't mean much though :)09:47
irqso like i said, i put it in the no-watchdog mode, and it powers up and stays on, but the screen is white constantly, no gui. is that normal for no-watchdog + rd mode?09:47
rm_youjohnx: sup :)09:47
johnxhey09:47
johnxirq, aaah...it won't even get to a desktop?09:47
irqnot currently, no09:47
johnxthat's not normal :(09:47
LoCusFwsod09:48
irqyes loucsf09:48
irqany way to determine why? like i said, i have ssh access09:48
irqi sooooooooo don't want to reflash09:48
johnxyou can at least tar up your / and put it on an sd card09:48
irqmediaplayer-engine is running - is that normal?09:49
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johnxI don't really know09:49
irqmy day job is a linux sysadmin, and i have to say it pisses me off that i can't find any logging info in this thing at all09:49
johnxhey rm_you09:49
irqi know it makes sense not to let the tiny memory fill up with log files09:49
irqbut at least the last 10 minutes or something would be extremely helpful here09:50
johnxnokia made a lot of choices that aren't targetted at hackers09:50
johnxsuch as not enabling support for a physical console09:50
johnxanyways, irq, I'm making dinner, so I'm going to let this run and I'll be back in ~10-20 minutes09:51
irqokay, thanks09:51
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irqif i'm not here when you get back, please email to prs a(t) nyip () net09:51
johnxsure09:52
irqso anyone else here have tips on troubleshooting a whitescreen of death?09:52
rm_youyeah09:52
rm_youlack of /var/log/* is AGGRIVATING >_<09:52
rm_you>_<09:52
rm_you>_<09:52
johnxso is lack of physical console built into kernel09:53
johnxbut debian boots at least09:53
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irqwhile we're all talking, has anyone here had problems with rdesktop?09:55
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irqfor me, it works once, but then unless i reboot, it never works again; failing with an X11 "Bad Window" error message09:55
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johnxnothing to test against09:56
irqgood for you :)09:56
irqoccupational hazard for me...09:56
johnxheh..except the wife's laptop...heheheh :D09:57
irqthe only reason i use it is for the vmware virtualcenter client, which runs my esx servers that run all my linux stuff :)09:57
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rm_youjohnx: so wait... you actually got debian booting on it? :P09:59
johnxyeah09:59
rm_youwow :P09:59
johnxwith caveats mentioned above09:59
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rm_youI need to try to get my backlight app set up on garage now...10:01
johnxirq, I don't have that plugin10:01
johnxI have one for jabber gtalk and sip10:02
johnxno idle10:02
johnxtry removing it I guess10:02
rm_youIs there like... a Garage tutorial? :P10:02
irqi did :(10:02
irqthis is so f'd up10:02
rm_youlike when adding a file, what does "Release Name" mean10:02
irqso i guess the real problem i should be trying to solve is simply getting the desktop to show up10:03
johnxI would tar up your / while you can, do a little more hacking, reflash and get root-on-sd setup10:03
irqyeah it's rsyncing right now10:03
johnxgood deal10:03
johnxrsync ftw10:03
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irqmy goal is to just get this fixed once and then do root-on-sd10:04
irqyeah exactly, rsync. there's an example of one of the maaaaaaaaaaaany little things i had to do to get this thing to work the way i want10:04
irqthat i totally don't want to do over again10:04
irqdo you use the 128mb memory extension thing? (e.g. /media/mmc2/.swap)10:05
johnxnah, swapping to flash mem never struck me as that great of an idea...except for cards I don't care about or that have lifetime warranties10:06
* johnx goes afk10:06
rm_youI find it humorous that the Maemo Garage asks what Operating System your project is designed to run on, but it doesn't include any of the Internet Tablet OS' in the list >_>10:09
dpb_Does it have linux?10:10
dpb_Because ITOS is linux..10:10
rm_youyeah.... but10:10
rm_youthat isn't especially helpful10:10
dpb_File a bug for it then? :)10:11
wumpusyeah all the ITOS are linux :P10:11
rm_youI mean, that's what I ended up putting...10:11
wumpusbut a choice itos 2007 / 2008 etc would be more useful :p10:11
rm_youAfter I scrolled down a bit, they did actually have a choice for that, so i guess it's fine10:11
rm_youit was just really confusing.10:11
wumpusok :)10:11
irqhas anyone here actually used their n7/8* as a car navigation thingy?10:12
rm_youyes10:12
rm_youALL THE TIME10:12
irqworks pretty well?10:13
rm_youyeah10:13
irqgreat10:14
irqwayfinder is kind of expensive10:14
irqbut i do get lost all. the. time.10:14
rm_youI just use MaemoMapper10:15
irqdoes that do voice prompts and actual driving directions?10:15
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rm_youirq: yes10:15
rm_yousup Zetx10:15
Zetxyo10:16
johnxrm_you, btw, search for text2speech on itt and check out my hack :P10:16
rm_you:P10:16
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ZetxIt's a sad day when it takes more than 2 seconds to load the images on your modem's setup pages10:16
irqmo-dem ?10:17
irqis that some kind of a .. drug?10:17
Zetxeh. adsl modem? whatever. it's.. oh the box says "gateway"10:17
rm_youlol10:18
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irqis there any way to query available battery life from command line?10:21
ZetxOh. ... Oh, wow. http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=579806&start=4310:21
ZetxI love it.10:22
johnxirq, lookup batterystatus10:22
irqZetx: heh, i read that when it came out originally. i'm pretty convinced it's fake.10:23
ZetxYeah10:24
johnxthat's a great troll10:24
johnxclassic10:24
ZetxI want to find a post by the guy accusing linux users of being communist with bullet points supporting his statement.10:26
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irqwe're definitely more socialistic than windows-weenies, you have to admit10:27
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johnxyeah, it's interesting how the license of an OS builds a community that feels a certain way about software10:28
irqevery day i live brings another day i hate money and making money and working10:29
irqi'm like -><- that close to becoming some kind of a hermit10:29
irqif it wasn't for my family i'd be there already10:29
johnxmoney is fine as long it's a means to an end10:29
johnxwhen it stops being an end in and of itself it becomes a problem10:29
irqmaybe it's because i keep workign for startups10:29
irqwhere everyone is shitting themselves if their possible future stock value has shrunk a little10:30
johnxah10:30
irqOMG it's fixed10:30
irqthe idle package10:30
johnxwoo!10:30
irqit wasn't acutlly deleted ( ithought i deleted it)10:30
irqso i nuked it and now everything's back10:30
johnxthat rocks10:30
irqmr. johnx, i applaud you, thank you very much10:30
johnxno prob10:30
johnxI think someone else figured out that package was the problem anyways10:31
irqthe first new-version of thaty package was fine10:31
irqthe one that added AIM support10:31
irqbut the second version f'd up10:31
irqone more question for you, i deleted one of the wayfinder maps (east coast usa, since i live on west coast).. is there any way to get it back?10:31
irqi lied, i have another question, is there anything bad about letting the n810 run permanently in no-watchdog and r&d mode?10:33
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johnxsorry, the answers are "no idea" and "no idea" respectively10:36
irqwell anyway, i'm too frozen to not be in bed anymore, so i will leave you now and read Charles Stross :) thanks again johnx and everyone else, you guys rule 100%.10:36
irqah okay, np. thanks john! have a good night!10:37
johnxyou too10:37
johnx'night10:37
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oil_what would be a good way to sync maemo mapper maps, routes and pois with different devices?11:00
oil_eg. devices are in home in the night. export the information, collect all to a single place and then put the files back to the devices11:01
proteousmagic11:01
proteoushard to come by though11:01
proteous:P11:01
bilboedoil_, conduit might be a good starting point...11:01
bilboedfor synchronization in general that is11:02
oil_bilboed: thanks. I'll check that one out. the transfer itself I would do with rsync11:02
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johnxgpsbabel11:03
johnxhmm11:03
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JaffaMorning, all11:04
johnxit can help you hand things off to maemo mapper in a format it can cope with...but I don't know about the other way11:04
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oil_one use case would be in home usage. another to share POIs and routes with people in same region.11:06
johnxI can't remember what kind of file poi.db is, maybe sqlite?11:06
johnxeither way you'll be doing a lot of scripting O_o11:07
oil_I understood that it would be sqlite11:07
johnxmornin' jaffa11:07
b0unc3good morning11:15
rm_youjohnx: building my first NORMAL gtk app now :)11:15
johnxwhat's it do?11:16
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rm_youLife Tracking for Magic the Gathering games :P11:16
proteous...11:17
KhertanHi !11:17
rm_youjust two labels and buttons to +/- them11:17
rm_youone will be upside-down though11:17
rm_youso I have to figure out how to do that11:17
Khertansomeone know a rogue like game which is traducted in french N11:17
Khertan?11:17
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inzrm, "magic the gathering" and "life" in the same sentence, that doesn't sound right11:21
johnxlife as in hp I think (*hope*) he means11:21
inzAhh, that would make sense11:21
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rm_youlol yes :P11:27
rm_youthough relative to maemo stuff, MTG steals only a sliver of my life away :P11:27
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rm_youAnyone know EXACTLY what it means for a program to "hibernate"?11:30
rm_youI11:30
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rm_youI'm looking at the hildon API, and it says this: "For instance hildon_program_set_can_hibernate() sets whether or not an application can be set to hibernate by the Hildon task navigator, in situations of low memory."11:31
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:34
SpakmanYo!11:35
inzrm, it means that the program has saved it's state somewhere and it can be killed11:35
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inzrm, so when in "hibernation", the program is not running, but can be started to the same state it was before killing it11:36
inzrm, for trivial programs, implementation is quite trivial, but if you have, for example, multi-level undo, you'll need to write the whole undo stack somewhere11:37
inzrm, there are some state saving functions in libosso, but obviously they can only provide you with the data saving/loading, you need to interpret the data yourself11:41
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rm_youinz: thanks11:42
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blahdeblahIs it my imagination, or is there absolutely no way to find out whether openntpd is functioning correcly on my maemo device?11:51
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Khertanblahdeblah > same here11:54
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blahdeblahIt doesn't seem to have any log files (understandably), and doesn't respond to ntpq -p from another machine.  :-(11:54
blahdeblahKhertan: I ran it with -d from the command line and it looks like it's working, but, it seems silly that there's no way to query it about its distance from its peers.11:55
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michele_are there documents about UI guidelines? specifically, menu structure12:59
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michele_"At this point the UI guidelines have not yet been published, but we are working to make them available."13:06
Cptn-N800Is there any graphical calculator for maemo?13:07
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flip^yay, the n810 for work has shown up :D13:14
Cptn-N800¨Work¨13:15
Cptn-N800;D13:15
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flip^lol, i wish i could just play with it ... but i suspect i'll get a chance to fiddle to decide if i want to upgrade to it13:17
michele_Cptn-N800: there is free42, which is an HP-42s emulator13:17
michele_Cptn-N800: and I think the Qt4 port project ported another nice one13:18
michele_oh13:18
michele_graphical13:18
michele_flip^: what kind of work?13:18
michele_well... technically the 42s can do graphs...13:19
Cptn-N800Nothing like the casio ones?13:20
Cptn-N800Als, is there any way of opening .doc on m13:21
Cptn-N800Os2913:21
Cptn-N800Ops13:21
Cptn-N800Wrong button  -.- Stupid usb kb layout13:22
Cptn-N800Opening .doc on os200813:22
pyhimysCptn-N800: abiword? google docs?13:25
wndantiword should compile easily enough for maemo :-)13:26
pyhimysstrings? ;)13:27
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Cptn-N800Thx, google docs did the job13:37
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michele_maddler: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=131055#post13105513:58
BlafaselIs it possible to use the USB connection cable as NIC somehow? Using the network of my company laptop?13:59
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nomisBlafasel: yeah. You need to fiddle a bit though.14:02
nomisBlafasel: been a while that I did that but you need to insert the (IIRC) g_ether module.14:04
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maddlermichele_: reading14:06
Blafaselnomis: Thanks14:06
GeneralAntillesIsn't that package only available in red-pill mode?14:07
maddlerGeneralAntilles: nope...14:07
GeneralAntillesYou sure?14:07
maddleryou only need to be in RP to install it...14:07
GeneralAntillesI've only seen it with red pill enabled over here.14:07
maddlerI can double check... but pretty sure...14:08
GeneralAntillesEnabling red-pill to force-install something is bad practice. <_<14:08
maddleryep... I know... :)14:08
maddlerbut... that's how you can find bugs :)14:08
GeneralAntillesHa14:08
maddlerI know I can broke things that way... :)14:09
GeneralAntillesReally, everybody needs to stop telling newbies about red pill.14:09
maddlerso I won;t complain when it occurs... :)14:09
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maddlerGeneralAntilles: absolutely true!14:09
michele_you enable red-pill, install the installer and then install rtcomm14:09
michele_but upgrades don't need red-pill14:09
michele_now14:09
michele_lunch14:09
michele_later14:09
GeneralAntillesThey think it's some sort of magic pill or something. :D14:09
maddlerlol!Q14:10
hahloGeneralAntilles: what exactly this matrix do?14:10
maddlerhahlo: brings you to a parallel universe :)14:10
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maddlerGeneralAntilles: confirmed rtcom will show even in blue pill mode :)14:11
maddlerbtw... time to go eat something here...14:11
maddlerlater dudes...14:11
hahlois it somekind of force for apt?14:11
hahlo--force-depencies or somthing?14:12
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pupnikhmm commander keen...14:13
GeneralAntillesI could go for that, pupnik. :)14:15
Cptn-N800Awww i remember that14:15
Cptn-N800Pogo stick!14:15
Cptn-N800An astronauts best friend14:15
hahlohttp://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/redpill.html hildon-app-mgr is worst apt front i have seen so far14:17
hahloi thought that synaptic is baddest14:17
wumpuswhat's so bad about synaptic :/14:18
hahlorubber boot has really ruined debian system14:19
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inzhahlo, did you ever try the first version?14:22
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pupnikbtw iD software is one of the few game companies that supports linux and openGL *on* *principle*14:29
pupnikThey had great t-shirts... "DOOM  (wrote it)"14:30
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t_s_ohmm, anyone else had the contacts manager fail to import entries in a vsf file if one of them holds a extended ascii letter?14:57
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hahloinz: no only 2007&200815:04
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maddlerback15:05
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inzhahlo, the 2005 version was truely horrible15:11
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K-Foxwhat's this15:25
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DarK-Fox: I think there is some scheduled maintenance of the servers today.15:26
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K-Foxok15:27
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GeneralAntillesWooo, netsplits!15:40
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K-Foxhow much is n80015:44
t_s_o?15:44
doc|homeK-Fox: depends on where you buy it15:44
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lcuk_2GeneralAntilles, i told you not to press that button again15:47
K-Foxwhat button?15:48
lcuk_2the one that reboots the internets15:48
GeneralAntillesSorry15:50
GeneralAntillesIt's just so big and red. :315:50
inzbig red buttons are the bestest15:50
maddlerlol :)15:50
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Takhell yeah15:54
Takare we talking about fceu?15:54
cizarroor blue buttons with the text "red" in them15:54
cizarrolike in the universal I ching calculator15:54
* Tak have to calculate yi ching by hand15:54
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cizarroyou'd need to be an octopus to do that15:55
Takwouldn't it be by tentacle then?15:55
cizarrosemantics!15:56
cizarrofingers are just so unnecessary really15:56
inzcizarro, then you don't mind if I cut yours off?15:57
lcuk_2you can but mine off, but replace them with tenticles15:57
newca12[announce] Streamtuner now available for OS2008. Enjoy ;-) http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/streamtuner/15:58
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t_s_ogot to love modest, one account works fine, another dies upon mail check15:59
t_s_oboth are pop3 server15:59
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cizarroinz, I've already donated mine to better uses!16:00
cizarroinz, and no, you cannot have my toes..16:00
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dick_turpinlets all go and give this netsplit a kicking16:10
dick_turpinoops16:10
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BlafaselHmm.. There's no kismet for 2008 yet?16:39
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BlafaselI admit being not really a debian guy, but is http://repository.maemo.org/dists/chinook/ down somehow? Trying to install samba here, which relies on that repository for samba-common16:58
Taklooks up to me16:59
Takcontains http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/s/samba/samba-common_3.0.23c-1osso6_armel.deb16:59
BlafaselHmm.. Right you are. But my tablet refuses to find that package.17:00
Takis it looking for a specific version?17:01
wwpsame here, smbfs and samba can't be installed because of missing dep samba-common17:01
BlafaselTak: Ah, yes it is. =3.0.22-317:02
BlafaselWhich starts to make sense now17:02
* Tak nods17:03
BlafaselThanks for pointing out the obvious stuff I missed ;)17:03
* Tak shrugs17:04
wwpso what? the idea is to install manually http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/s/samba/samba-common_3.0.23c-1osso6_armel.deb, then samba or smbclient from the app manager?17:05
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Takthat samba-common package won't work with the samba package to which Blafasel is referring17:06
wwphm ok17:06
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wwpproblem is that from the app manager, available samba and smbclient versions are 3.022-317:06
wwpI will see if a samba-comomon 3.0.22 is available17:07
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trevarthan Where the heck can I find libwpeditor-plus-dev?17:12
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.gronmayer.com/it17:13
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* petergunn looks around and checks if hes connected17:25
wndsorry, you're not. please try again later.17:26
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trevarthanGeneralAntilles: ah, I was missing the chinook extras repo. thanks.17:28
wwpI try installing some packages from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/ on my n810 (like 'patch_2.5.9-2_armel.deb') but the app manager complains it's incompatible package type.. did I miss something?17:28
melmothNew n810 arrived...worked ok, installed one or 2 app, app manager the refused to work, rebooted, now it is stuck at the nokia logo, the blue bar load, and..nothing...17:28
melmothDoes it feels like reflashing already ?17:28
wwpmelmoth: flashing w/ the latest os2008 revision sounds a good idea then17:29
wwp(and since you can't boot, you've nothing to loose ;-)17:29
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SpakmanI'm making an OSSO RPC call to the browser method "load_url" to open links. Is there a method to open them in a new window?17:31
trevarthanI don't have an intltool binary in my chinook vmware scratchbox. What's up with that?17:35
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Takapt-get install intltool ?17:38
trevarthanalready installed17:38
trevarthanmaybe something else is goin gon17:39
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trevarthanfigured it out. nm.17:46
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lcuk_2python/gtk question: im trying to make black buttons with white text but nothing is jumping out at me. can someone point me in the right direction please17:56
Takgenerally one doesn't override the gtk theme ...17:57
||cwwhy would you want such an atrocity....17:57
lcuk_2yes - hence its not a normal thing17:57
||cwunless it's the theme...17:57
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lcuk_2but i dont want to change the entire theme for 1 app.  unless of course i can specify a theme for a specific app17:58
GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, wants to blind everybody.17:58
GeneralAntilles-,17:58
lcuk_2opposite, i want to stop people from being blinded17:58
lcuk_2at the moment the entire screen is practically whitewashed17:58
lcuk_2has buttons which are visible from orbit17:59
GeneralAntillesDon't feed me your drivel, eye killer! :P17:59
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lcuk_2WARNING: do not look into the remote control app with your remaining eye17:59
Taklet people decide their own themes for gtk stuff18:00
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lcuk_2then i want a nice black theme for this specific app, it looks great for everything else just not this one page18:00
michele_lcuk_2: in fact, you can override the theme for a single application18:01
lcuk_2ahhhh michele18:01
michele_lcuk_2: you just have to specify a custom gtkrc when starting it18:01
lcuk_2so its like skinning and i will be able to give the user a choice18:01
* lcuk_2 hugs michele for being the first person to actually give me hope18:02
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michele_lcuk_2: if you just want to change the color of the buttons, you can do the programmatically too, with GtkStyles18:02
michele_lcuk_2: it is entirely possible18:02
lcuk_2\o/ wooo hooo18:02
lcuk_2right, ill go investigating some more, any keywords besides gtkrc i should be looking out for18:03
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michele_lcuk_2: gtkstyle, gtk resource files18:03
michele_lcuk_2: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkStyle.html18:04
lcuk_2ok thanks, i tried the same in the gtk room but the miserable sods didnt offer anything besides "cant be done" ...18:04
michele_http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/gtk-Resource-Files.html18:04
lcuk_2great stuff michele_, ill sit back and take a read18:04
solmumahalcuk_2: doesn't modify_bg/fg work on buttons?18:04
lcuk_2when i tried it it wouldnt modify anything18:05
solmumahawhat about modify_base?18:05
lcuk_2tried it on buttons and labels, when i looked other people were saying it wasnt available in all versions of gtk so thought that i was just out of luck18:05
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michele_lcuk_2: I think that fancy image viewer does that (quiver?)18:05
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solmumahait should work with labels at least18:06
lcuk_2ill take a look, thanks18:06
solmumahaworked for me18:06
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* lcuk_2 might have just been doing it wrong. meh i live and learn18:06
michele_lcuk_2: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkWidget.html#gtk-widget-set-style18:07
michele_or better http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkWidget.html#gtk-widget-modify-style18:07
michele_lcuk_2: anyway, I suggest you to give the user the option to use the default theme colours18:09
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lcuk_2michele_, i totally agree, the only problem was i have massive finger buttons which look stupid in white18:10
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* lcuk_2 makes use of available screen estate rather than making every click target a bullseye18:11
lophytehey all.. is there a way to force my n800 (os2008) not to open the "select connection" window when I try to access online resources? I'm using usb networking so I don't need the wireless...18:12
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inzlophyte, there was some "dummy" networking in the past, dunno if it still works18:16
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lophyteI haven't found anything on the wiki about it either..18:19
lophyteeven the usb networking tutorial just says that once its hooked up, browsing should work18:19
SpakmanI'm making an OSSO RPC call to the browser method "load_url" to open links. Is there a method to open them in a new window?18:19
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inzSpak, fakeroot apt-get install tablet-browser-interface-dev; less /usr/include/tablet-browser-interface.h18:21
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Spakmaninz: awesome, thanks18:22
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Khertanlcuk_2>bye18:50
Khertanbye18:50
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dskippyHas anyone gotten a simple gstreamer tcp connection working on the N800? I am using a few different blog posts I found as examples and I just keep getting "Connection refused" every time.19:18
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skiburanybody got their wisdom teeth pulled?19:36
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Xirex!list19:39
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dskippyskibur, I have.19:39
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skiburhow long did it take u to heal?19:40
dskippyskibur, as far as the pain goes, it's very variable for everyone. For some reason it didn't bother me at all and I ate solid food just a couple hours later.19:41
dskippyI know some really tough people who've been laid up for weeks though.19:41
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dskippyAs far as those little places that can catch your food, that took nearly a month for mine to heal.19:42
skiburit doesn't hurt for me, it is just bleeding a little19:42
dskippyAnd I had to get a water syringe (highly recomended) for putting into my gums and blasting out the food.19:42
dskippyskibur, the blood should stop in a day.19:42
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skibur?19:43
dskippyBut ask your doctor for one of those little water blasters. It's very helpful. My first time the doctor gave it to me. The second I had to ask and wouldn't have known about them if not for the first doctor.19:43
skiburthis my 4th day19:43
dskippyOh really? And still bleading? Huh. I stopped bleeding the next day. I thought that was pretty standard.19:44
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skiburlittle blood coming out compared to friday19:44
jsmithI bled for about 10 days... and was sick for three weeks19:44
* jsmith isn't typical, thank goodness19:45
skibur:(19:45
skiburi hope i stop bleeding by today19:47
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melmothCrap, reflashed the n800...installed some apps again... stuck again at the end of the blue progress bar.19:52
melmothHow can i know wich apps if any is causing the hang ?19:52
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melmothhmm, that is a n810 actually, but i guess the question would be the same19:53
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XamuskI took my four tooths in a day19:54
Xamusks/tooths/teeth/19:55
TakXamusk meant: I took my four teeth in a day19:55
infobotXamusk meant: I took my four teeth in a day19:55
Xamusk;)19:55
XamuskI was faster :Þ19:55
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XamuskI only had problems with one of them, which was at 90 degrees in my mouth19:58
XamuskI still remember the bones cracking when the dentist pulled it19:58
Xamuskthe only one wich needed stitches19:58
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skiburme too, all four are out as of friday :(20:01
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melmothcould it be that i have changed the user password ?20:21
melmothi did that on the n800 too, same os, no reboot problem with that there.20:21
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lophyteanyone familiar with setting up SIP on os2008/n800?20:25
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jsmithlophyte: I've done it...20:25
lophyteI'm just wondering if there's a way to get more verbose error messages to help in debugging...20:26
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lophyteit won't connect, but all it says is "network error"20:26
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lophytewhich doesn't help me much20:26
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jsmithlophyte: No, not really... I always fire up a packet sniffer (on the SIP registrar/proxy/server side) and look at the SIP messages20:26
* jsmith is a VoIP guy20:26
lophyteI'm not even getting registration messages in asterisk20:27
lophyteso I'm assuming the packets aren't even getting there20:27
jsmithAh, this is Asterisk -- even better20:27
lophyteI'm in for a nightmare anyway, double NAT20:27
* jsmith wrote the O'Reilly book for Asterisk20:27
lophytereally?20:27
jsmithYup... you're talking to the right guy20:28
lophytenice :)20:28
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lophyteI've got my asterisk server at home behind NAT, and my n800 here behind my work's NAT20:28
jsmithIf you do a "sip set debug" (for Asterisk 1.4) or "sip debug" (Asterisk 1.2) and you don't even see the REGISTER coming from your n800, then no amount of configuration on the n800 can help you20:28
jsmithYou've at least got to forward port 5060 udp (not tcp, udp!) on your NAT firewall at home20:29
lophyteyeah, I've got that much20:29
jsmithThen you should at least be able to register.20:29
lophyte5060 UDP and 10000-10099 UDP, and rtp.conf set for 10000-1009920:29
Cptnodegardasterisk and obelix ^^20:30
jsmithOK, then you should be getting the SIP messaging through20:30
jsmithCptnodegard: No, that's "Asterix", which is a totally different trademark ;-)20:30
Cptnodegardi know20:30
Cptnodegardim just bored20:30
Cptnodegardrandomness ftw20:30
lophytenothing showing up in the sip debug though, hm20:30
jsmithlophyte: And you're sure the firewall is forwarding to the proper IP?20:32
lophyteat home, yes20:32
jsmithI've got my n810 talking to my20:32
jsmithAsterisk box right now20:32
lophyteis there a low-level test I can do, ie. netcat to my asterisk box on port 5060 and send it a SIP command?20:33
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jsmith(in fact, it's talking to two different Asterisk boxes... on on the local LAN and one out on the internet)20:33
jsmithI still think you'd be better off to fire up Wireshark or tcpdump on the Asterisk box20:34
lophyteah, ok20:34
jsmithIt appears the traffic isn't making it to that box at *all*20:34
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lophyteyeah, it looks like I'm not seeing anything on the asterisk box20:39
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melmothGrumble where has gpe calendar for chinook gone ?20:39
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jsmithmelmoth: There was a post on planet.maemo.org about it the other day20:41
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lophytejsmith, interesting, if I nc to UDP 5060 from here, it shows up in a packet sniff on the server20:47
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jsmithOh?20:48
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lophytethat is, if I nc from the n800...20:48
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jsmithlophyte: Did you mistype the IP address (or domain name) of your server in the configuration on the n800?20:48
lophyteno, I've re-entered it and double-checked it20:48
lophytetransport is UDP, port is 5060..20:49
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lcuk_2is udp (noticably) faster than a pre-connected data stream?20:50
lcuk_2tcp^20:50
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lophytehuh, go figure...20:55
lophyteworks now20:55
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lophyteran a packet sniffer on my n800, looking for udp packets detined for 5060, and realized there was no packets going out...20:55
lophyteso I changed the hostname to an IP and now it works.. which is no good since my home IP is dynamic20:56
lophytebut at least it works20:56
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melmothon a n810, with maemomapper, how to use the internal gps ?21:11
melmothgpsd does not seems to run, no bluetooth one, and no /dev/gps device neither21:11
GeneralAntillesBluetooth21:11
GeneralAntillesNo MAC21:11
melmothahh, thats works better.21:12
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melmothThanks general !21:12
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AlexJTannerI have a couple of questions21:15
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AlexJTannerwhere is a list of hardware maemo works on21:16
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AlexJTannerdoes all maemo apps work on all hardware21:16
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AlexJTannerand can I synch tomboy with my tomboy notes on my ubuntu PC21:16
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pupnikAlexJTanner: 1) afaik only Nokia 770, N800 and N81021:18
AlexJTannerok and tomboy21:18
pupnik2) Maemo is the development platform, "ITOS" is the internet tablet OS21:18
pupnik3) OS changes between 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 break some compatibility21:19
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pupniktomboy is what?21:19
AlexJTannerthe note taking application21:19
AlexJTannerhttp://code.google.com/p/tomboy-maemo/21:20
megabyte405tomboy requires mono21:20
megabyte405so tomboy does not run21:21
megabyte405but you can sync tomboy to stuff like BackpackIt using Conduit, and that's a web app21:21
AlexJTannerok...21:21
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AlexJTannerso the notes would be stored on my PC and the nokia would access them21:21
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AlexJTanneris there a reason mono won't work21:22
elbit would require a porting effort which has not been undertaken21:23
Takmono was ported for some version of ITOS - not sure what the current state is21:23
elbI wouldn't be surprised to find out that an enterprising soul could get a slow version of mono up and running21:24
elbwithout JIT etc.21:24
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elbit's also quite possibly enormous, at least for the libraries required to get a GUI app like tomboy fired up21:24
Takmeh, not any worse than python21:24
elbdo you know that, or are you speculating?21:25
elbthe "standard" libraries for mono encompass a *lot* of functionality, much like Java21:25
elb(I don't know, I'm truly asking)21:25
elbscripting languages typically have very small libraries (byte-wise), in comparison to compiled languages, due to both the terseness of the language itself and the relative compactness of source code representation21:27
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Takpython is not a typical scripting language in that respect21:29
elboh?21:29
elbit certainly seems relatively terse, to me21:29
elbthough I confess that I don't know a lot of python, I skipped from perl to ruby, missing python altogether21:29
TakI seem to recall reading a comparison that analyzed the respective sizes and performances of mono, java, and python, the conclusion of which was that none of them were significantly different in either respect21:30
elbnow that surprises me21:30
Takalthough I could be wrong, and those memories were planted in my brain by alien clown cyborgs21:30
elbmono and java should have a performance edge, at least in the commercial implementations which ahve good JITs21:31
elbor rather, .NET and java21:31
elbI don't know how mono itself compares, maybe it is similar21:31
czrpython is faster for some things, slower for others. just like anything else21:32
czrand JITting is not a panacea21:32
czrand you can JIT python as well, or stay somewhere in between21:32
* Mousey thinks . o O ( psycho? )21:32
czrpsyco21:32
czrclose enough though. but there are other things you can do as well21:33
Takyeah, FoF uses cx_freeze iirc21:33
czrthe python model doesn't really allow the same kind of JITting as CLR/Java.21:33
elbJIT is certainly not a panacea21:33
elbbut the commercial JITs really *are* pretty good21:33
czrbut it allows other kinds of optimizations.21:33
elbI understand psyco is also quite good21:33
czrelb, except for their memory foorprint21:33
czrlarger memory foorprint = more cache misses.21:34
elbsure21:34
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czrI find that using a combination of python and C is powerful enough (as powerful as needs to be)21:34
czrand the step from C into asm isn't all that long, if necessary.21:35
elbyes, Ousterhout got that right21:37
elbC + scripting is a fantastic compromise21:37
elbif compromise is even the right word21:37
pupnikTak have you tried -fprofile-arcs or -fprofile-generate ?21:37
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Takwith gcc? no.21:37
czrpupnik, I've found them lacking21:37
* Tak like ruby and C21:38
pupniksome gp2x dude claimed he got 15% boost on an emu21:38
Takalthough I'm really warming to vala21:38
czrelb, python is just more expressive and very good at getting overall structure and algos right. C is good for speed and data size when it matters.21:38
pupnikthat sounds a bit optimistic but..21:38
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czrI've had about +-2% speedup/downs with my stuff.21:38
czrso far have to find anything where it would be a clear win21:38
pupnikczr, which should i use to auto-optimize?  -lfprofile-generate or -fprofile-arcs21:39
fysaI wrote/supported a wxpython-based application for a few years -- compiling to self-contained .EXE using PyInstaller.  The distributable was roughly 4-5MB for a rather light application (1500 lines)21:39
fysanot horrible, mind you.21:39
czrpupnik, both21:39
czrpupnik, profile-arcs has also other uses outside profiling.21:40
czrhence you need both.21:40
fysabut not 'lite'21:40
czrfor example gcov needs profile-arcs21:40
pupnikczr can i do those in the sb-armel and generate the profiling logs on the actual device?21:40
pupniksome sources say x86 only21:40
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fysaI believe Lua has a very light interpreter.21:40
GNUtoN810Hi21:40
czrpupnik, hmm. I've only used x86 and x86-64, can't really say. although I imagine it should work21:40
pupniki managedt to get some logs last year on the device, but i forgot all of it21:40
keesjLua is hot21:41
pupnikok i'll write up some notes if i get it going21:41
czrpupnik, keep diaries :-)21:41
czrpupnik, if you can't recall, do ask, I'll dig around my diaries21:41
pupnikok thanks :)21:42
lcuk_2make sure you keep your diaries in the fridge or it will curdle21:42
pupnikdosbox needs every bit of speed it can get21:42
czrI have close to zero optimization experience on arm (with gcc), so can't really help much.21:42
czrpupnik, have you profiled it?21:43
pupniknope, i think i need to flash the oprofile kernel (and pray)21:43
czrthere are other profiling tools as well21:43
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czrbut yeah, I guess it's slightly difficult on the device given the resources available21:44
* czr shrugs21:44
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gforcei wish the available Java stack (for n8x0) wasn't such a hodgepodge21:46
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GNUtoN810Hi21:49
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* Tak wishes GNUtoN810 would quit saying "hi" and get on with the quotes21:49
lcuk_2hi gnu21:49
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GNUtoN810Have anyone  crosscompiled boost for maemo?21:50
inzDoes someone crosscompile for maemo?21:50
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GNUtoN810Hey lcuk_221:50
inzErr, indeed they do21:50
inznevermind ;)21:50
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pupniklibboost inz?  i have one around from gregale builds21:52
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lcuk_2ive seen some boost modules in the app manager21:52
czrinz :-)21:53
lcuk_2duno which pill i was taking but i know i saw something (there was a typo in its description)21:53
GNUtoN810lcuk_2: are you talking about gtmm booster?21:54
lcuk_2possibly21:54
GNUtoN810I need lib boost 'boost.org'21:54
lcuk_2as i said i know i saw one or another in there - i only remember it because of the typo21:54
gforceI'm readying to DL a VMWare appliance (for scratchbox) Anyone care to advise on which is better:21:55
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pupnik ls -1 libboost-* |wc -l21:56
pupnik2721:56
gforcea) loading Ubuntu entirely, or b) using an appliance  (Would be in VMWare Fusion either way, that is)21:56
pupnikgforce, get latest from idnt21:56
lcuk_2GNUtoN810, yer, it was the: gtkmm-booster "Boster modules for gtkmm"21:57
gforcewhere is that again pupnik?  thx21:57
inzczr, got confused21:57
inzczr, too tired, I guess21:57
czrinz, I blame it on the clock21:57
GNUtoN810Ok, thank you. :)21:57
czrindeed.21:57
* lcuk_2 apologises for getting your hopes up21:58
pupnik!google maemo+vmware+appliance21:58
GNUtoN810Ah , todday i ve tryed xmame on my n810...but seems too slow..21:58
dskippyDoes anyone know how to setup an n800 for remote ssh? I had it working and then rebooted it an now it doesn't work. I don't know what I might have done differently. I have flashed with R&D mode. I can ssh locally on the device. But I get "no route to host" when I ssh from my laptop21:58
gforceyep i saw two , just didn't recognize "idnt"21:58
GNUtoN810Ds22:00
lcuk_2dskippy, keep it simple, i assume you can ping the n8x0 from your laptop22:00
dskippylcuk_2, actually, no I can't. It's not responding to ping. But I can ssh from the n800 to my laptop so it's on the network just fine.22:00
pupnikhttp://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/  gforce i think that's the one you want22:00
pupnik(using it here)22:01
lcuk_2^^^ thats the one i have as well, not that i can use it so far :S22:01
gforcethanks comrades22:01
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lcuk_2dskippy, are you running wireless or usb net?22:01
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dskippywireless22:02
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lcuk_2sounds like a configuration problem with your router maybe?22:03
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dskippylcuk_2, it could be. I guess I'm doing everything right on the n800. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything to obviously wrong.22:04
dskippyThanks for helping.22:04
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lcuk_2theres not a great deal you can do wrong with the machine, just keep things simple and test in baby steps22:05
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Xamuskusually the best way to solve networking problems is to go layer by layer22:15
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solmumahaanyone here using vdr with streamdev-plugin?22:25
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lophytejsmith, got time for one more quick question, if you're still around?22:53
Tama^2Hello22:54
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jsmithlophyte: Yeah, I"m here22:55
lophytejsmith, quick question about asterisk, I've got my n800 and my connection to FWD set to 'canreinvite=no' and yet asterisk insists on attempting a native bridge...22:55
jsmithA native bridge isn't the same as a re-invite22:56
lophyteah, I thought that's what it was22:56
lophyteI'll look into native bridges then...22:57
Tama^2Q: I followed the instruction to boot from mmc. It seems to get almost to the end of the boot process (boot slash with progress bar up to the end) and then reboots. Is it a known problem?22:58
GeneralAntillesYou're in a reboot loop22:59
GeneralAntillescould be a lot of explanations for that.22:59
Tama^2well it goes back to the boot menu and from there if I select 'flash' all is good23:01
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jsmithlophyte: Native bridge simply means it's a SIP-to-SIP bridge23:02
Tama^2IMHO it looks like something on the root fs I cloned is broken, but of course whtever it is, is fine when booting from flash23:02
lophytejsmith, ah, okay, so that's probably not the issue then23:02
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Tama^2the other question is: when the bootmenu installed can one invoke the "usb update mode"?23:06
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jacksterdo the N800 and N810 have a different amount of RAM from each other?23:22
darkipI think it's the same in each 128mb23:23
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GeneralAntillesNo, no difference in RAM.23:24
jacksterkick ass23:24
jacksterah I see where I went wrong, the top post on planet.maemo.org seems to be talking about storage space23:24
jacksterI always thought of memory being RAM23:24
pupnikczr: do you get a .gcda file after building with -fprofile-generate?23:24
czrpupnik, no, you get it after running the program that has been built with profile-generate and profile-arcs23:25
czrthat's the file that holds the run-time collected profiling data23:25
pupnikok maybe i need profile-arcs also23:25
czrwhich is used by profile-use23:25
pupnikyeah23:25
pupniksorry i meant after building and running23:25
czrah, yes.23:25
czrman gcc , search for 'profile-use'23:26
czrit tells you what you need23:26
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czrif you run your program multiple times, all the runs' data will be combined in the .gcda files23:26
czrso if you need different datas for example, it's pretty simple.23:26
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pupnikahh  You must use -fprofile-generate both when compiling and when linking your program.23:29
pupnikso i need to add -fprofile-generate to my LDFLAGS?23:29
czryes23:30
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czror into PROF_LDFLAGS which you use in the profiling target23:30
czrymmv obviously.23:30
czryour final build must not use profile-generate.23:30
pupnikthx23:30
pupnikyes23:30
czrPROF_LDFLAGS was just a suggestion for the name23:30
czrbtw, you might also be interested in gcov, since you're playing with gcda23:31
czrit's a code coverage information collecting/reporting tool23:31
czrcomes with recent gccs23:31
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czralthough it's slightly sneaky and not very well documented.23:31
pupnikok, another app complained aboug missing __gcov when i enabled -fprofile-generate23:32
pupnikso i tried adding -lgcov to the linking step but that didn't work for some reason23:32
pupnikbut dosbox isn't complaining about that23:32
czrpupnik, hmm. just profile-generate shouldn't need gcov. weird.23:34
pupnikalso czr, i saw instruction on a blog to use -O0 with -fprofile-generate, do you know if that is correct?23:34
czrmaybe you had additional flags?23:34
czrhmm. not sure about the -O0. not a bad idea probably23:34
pupnikdon't think so but it was just a test case, not the interesting program23:34
czrbut I haven't tested the difference.23:34
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pupnikok ty23:35
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pupnik You must use -fprofile-generate both when compiling and23:35
pupnik           when linking your program.23:35
pupnik23:35
pupnikoops23:35
thp_Is there anyone that can help with optimizing a SDL game for speed on a N800?23:35
pupnikpaste not working from vmware23:36
Takthp_: did you have a specific question?23:36
* pupnik whistles and looks at his feet23:36
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* Tak looks at pupnik's feet also23:36
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* czr looks into pupnik's pocket23:36
thp_Tak: well, it works well and everything, but it is just a bit too slow/choppy23:36
thp_i wonder if i can use some special flags (HWSURFACE, etc..) that will make the game faster23:37
Takis this an app you wrote, or something you've ported?23:37
thp_it's a game i initially wrote for the desktop and am now porting to maemo23:37
thp_http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=239256362519105104&hl=de23:37
thp_that's roughly how it looks now. everything works but it could be a bit faster. i already updated the code to use SDL_UpdateRect instead of SDL_Flip and double buffering23:38
pupnikcool23:38
Takyeah, updaterect is a bit better23:38
Takiirc there's no magic flag to accelerate things23:38
pupnikyou're not updaterecting the whole screen are you?23:39
Takhave you tried operating in yuv colorspace?23:39
thp_i'm not updaterecting the whole screen, but i could optimize the code a bit to detect overlapping rects that i queued for updating23:39
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thp_no, how do i go about operating in yuv colorspace?23:40
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pupnikare you storing your bitmaps as 32bit rgba and letting sdl convert to 16 bit?23:41
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Takhttp://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/31714?do=post_view_threaded23:41
thp_i'm using SDL_DisplayFormatAlpha() to convert the bitmaps to the native display format (or at least that's what i believe libsdl does when i call displayformatalpha)23:42
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darkipOne small question, is there a free equivalent of wayfinder other than maemo mapper which offers offline navigation?23:43
thp_and the bpp i set by first querying using SDL_GetVideoInfo23:43
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pupnikthp_: if you want to see something small, simple and fast, check out http://pupnik.dea/liens-1.0.2_Nokia.tgz23:53
pupniksorry23:53
pupnik http://pupnik.de/aliens-1.0.2_Nokia.tgz23:53
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thp_thanks, i'll ahve a look23:55
michele_can I just copy ttfs in .fonts to install them?23:55
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