IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-12-10

K`zanAstro: Exactly.00:00
astro76either way I'm sure everyone would like a PDF to download00:00
alteregoWhat's wrong with cool looking?00:00
alteregoI think it's pretty cool.00:01
endorphinumastro: you are right, but i thought that it would be crazy to have that "flippage-feeling" on a technical device with a screen. And when i "met" the n800 on the web last week i just fell in love... now i'll only have to see how to get the 200 bucks together :(00:01
GeneralAntillesHow often would the issues come out?00:01
alteregoAnd I think it's usable. Though I think there should be a contents page and bookmarks.00:01
endorphinumgeneral: monthly00:01
GeneralAntillesAh, "This Month in maemo" thing actually sounds very awesome.00:01
GeneralAntilless/Ah/A00:01
alteregoYeah00:01
endorphinumalter: contents is there, bookmark will come. In the lower middle there will be a "menu" button where you can go to direct pages etc.00:01
alteregoendorphinum, I say go for it. But add a contents page, (which is easily accessible from any other page) and bookmarks! (Use cookies if you have to) :)00:02
alteregoAh, cool.00:02
GeneralAntillesIt could make for a nice digest read for the noobs who does follow maemo.org and ITT daily.00:02
alteregoCan you embed videos into these pages?00:03
endorphinumthats my aim... and also maybe a nice way for not-so-technical-maemo-fans like us to add stuff like "wallpapers" etc00:03
endorphinumalter: yes00:03
alteregoUrm .. Just had a dumb moment ..00:03
astro76endorphinum, check out what they are doing with Ubuntu Full Circle magazine monthly, sounds like the same type of thing you want to do for maemo00:03
alteregoI'm looking at the site on both my tablet and my laptop. I just tried to turn the page by touching my laptop screen O_O00:03
pupnikso, looks like one store in UK has N810s00:03
alteregopupnik, where?!?!>£%$%&£$00:04
alterego:)00:04
endorphinumIf you check Beta Sway, my sports ezine, at the back there is a column called "music to exercise to". That are netalbels mp3 what means free to play and free to download. I thought i would implement that also inside it.00:04
pupnikon ITT forums, N810 in europe thread00:04
alteregopupnik, good sign though. It means they've made it to the UK ;)00:04
endorphinumalter: lol00:04
GeneralAntillesendorphinum, I'd definitely has PDF as an option for distribution, though.00:05
GeneralAntilless/has/have00:05
pupnika NX client would be a great project00:05
alteregoYes, I agree with GeneralAntilles on that. PDF download aswell.00:05
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endorphinumtechnically that is no problem. I think i will offer both, but people will love the pageflip - i think :)00:05
AstroK`zan, endorphinum: please complete correctly, you're hilighting me ;)00:06
alteregoendorphinum, I think it's really cool :)00:06
GeneralAntillesThere's always the misers that'll complain about anything. ;)00:06
endorphinum*smile*00:06
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GeneralAntillesNeed to round up some columnists.00:06
astro76endorphinum, sure, an online browser as an alternative to a PDF download is a fine idea, it would be good to make the animation slightly less taxing on the tablet, looks great on pc though00:07
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endorphinumwhere can i download the ubuntu ezine? my atarashi ezine certainly will be like the same but have more "lifestyle" content00:07
astro76endorphinum, http://fullcirclemagazine.org/00:07
endorphinumastro: thnx!00:07
* alterego contemplates making a PDF viewer with this "feel" to it.00:07
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alteregoIf it can work this well in flash. It should be easily implemented in C ..00:08
endorphinumNever tried it, to tell you the truth.00:08
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GeneralAntillesHehe, target the magazine at an application, alterego? :D00:08
alteregoI just think we could do with a bit more eye candy ..00:09
endorphinumIs the text inside my "dummy" ok to read by that size? At the moment i do not know if a 12 or 14 font typo is better.00:09
alteregoAnd to be honest. The inbuilt PDF reader isn't _that_ great.00:09
alteregoIt's good, but not great.00:09
K`zanMore content, less "eye candy" please.00:09
alteregoendorphinum, it's a perfect size yeah.00:09
GeneralAntilles12 is fine on my eyes.00:09
endorphinumalter: that sounds great as i certainly will need that space for interviews with software developers or "bigger stories"00:10
alteregoIgnore K`zan he's being a kill joy. Eye candy is good for quite a few reasons. It makes interfaces and applications feel more polished. Which makes the whole product better.00:11
endorphinumThe ubuntu ezine is superb! But due to my "background" and my aim, i am missing the more entertaining and lifestyle stuff. But i love the design and the way they use to work out with the text sizes. not bad!!!00:11
alteregoThere is nothing wrong with UI refinement and eye candy. Though, there are limits to everything of course.00:11
endorphinumAs i mentioned, i do not own a n800. Would be great if you could answer me this question: i was thinking about a "new wallpapers" column and as the ezine is 800x480 the presented wallpapers will fit like it would already be installed on the background. My question is: can i make a simple link to a jpg file on the web if someone chooses a wallpaper? I mean, is it something like "save this jpg as background"?00:13
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GeneralAntillesThey'd have to save it, then selected it as their background.00:14
* alterego wonders if people would effectively beg for GSM+GPRS+EDGE+HSC functionality in the tablet if it was created by intel.00:14
alteregoI think not ..00:14
GeneralAntillesBut it's not particularly difficult, you just can't do it directly from the browser.00:14
endorphinumgeneral: thanks a lot!00:14
GeneralAntillesNokia == cellphones00:14
* GeneralAntilles blabbers a bit and drools.00:14
endorphinumalter: with all that stuff you are close to the n850 ;)00:14
GeneralAntillesLet's hope not.00:15
endorphinumyeah00:15
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alteregoGeneralAntilles, my point exactly. If these devices were made by some other company. Hell, even if they were made by Sony Ericson I doubt people would be so whiney over "mobile phone" capability.00:15
acydlordif the tablet was intel powered i wouldnt buy it00:15
alteregoWhat does that even mean? Do they just want GSM?00:15
acydlordnot a big fan of unfair business practices00:15
alteregoOr do they want EDGE, GPRS et al aswell ..00:15
acydlordedge, ew00:16
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't mind if they had a cellular maemo device, just as long Nokia still had another option without a cellular radio that was cheaper, better, stronger, and faster. ;)00:16
alterego:)00:16
acydlordwell the openmoko is very similar to a cellular maemo device00:17
|Rwith free daft punk samples? :P00:17
alteregoI'd rather leave my phone at home than my tablet ..00:17
acydlordlol, funny as i am listening to daft punk right now00:17
alteregoopenmoko isn't really like a cellular maemo device.00:17
GeneralAntillesalterego, depends on where I'm going. :P00:17
alteregoIt's like a open source based cellular device ..00:17
alteregoMaemo is an open source internet tablet based platform.00:18
alteregoThey're different form factors really ..00:18
endorphinumi luv maemo - though i have not worked on it by now :)00:18
acydlordthey are different form factors, but the sdk is very similar00:18
alteregoDoes openmoko use scratchbox?00:18
alteregoYou're basing two different platforms on the tools they use?00:19
alteregoO_o00:19
endorphinumOk guys, i will leave now. Wish you a pleasent day/night and thanks again for your support. I will inform you through this channel as soon as the first issue of "atarashi" goes online, what i think will be at the beginning of January 2008.00:19
alteregoSymbian uses GCC ..00:19
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alteregoendorphinum, I look forward to reading it.00:19
endorphinumalterego: thanks a lot. See ya.00:20
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GeneralAntillesHaha, alterego.00:21
alteregoI'm sorry, if I seem grouchy it's because I've not had much sleep the past couple of days :)00:22
alteregoMy ISP sucks and I'm doing a bittorrent through an SSH tunnel.00:23
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acydlordsorry, wasnt paying attention to this chanel00:25
alteregoWell, you're here now. That's what counts.00:26
acydlordi had just remembered hearing early on in the openmoko project that it was inspired by maemo00:26
alteregoOh, so they're ripping us off now :P00:26
alteregoTo be honest, I've not looked into openmoko.00:27
acydlordand i know most of the software is easy to port between the 200:27
alteregoI think openmoko will probably get killed by android ..00:27
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alteregoThough, I don't know why ..00:27
alteregoWho'd want to code everything in Java? ..00:27
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alteregoI guess all of those naive students google rip out of college ^_^00:28
acydlordlol00:29
acydlordi missed the local barcamp yesterday, i guess google phoenix was the sponsor for the food00:30
alteregoGoogle are evil.00:30
acydlordindeed00:30
alteregoIn 10 more years I predict there will be a google concentration camp in every major city on the planet.00:31
alteregoFull of Java and JScript coders.00:31
acydlordi dont know how a company can claim their motto is do no evil when they keep logs of everything and index everyone's files for them00:31
acydlordlol, no longer paying students fresh out of college, just ganking them00:32
halleyacydlord, "Ford:  Quality is Job One."00:32
alteregoThey'll probably call it "work experience" or "aprenticeship" or something ..00:32
acydlordlol, forgot about that one00:32
acydlordlol00:32
alteregoBut we'll all know they're concentration camps ..00:32
acydlordi have a deal with ASU so i can get free work / interns00:32
Astroacydlord: isn't this better than a company doing this while they obviously do evil?00:33
alteregoYou want to work for nothing over summer? Good for you.00:33
acydlordi mean i get interns from asu00:33
acydlordfree workers00:33
alteregoOh, hahah.00:33
alteregoWhat's your business?00:34
acydlordi was doing network security consulting00:34
acydlordbut i was using the interns for web design and development00:35
acydlordcause i still had a few contracts from that that i didn't want to work on anymore00:35
alteregoNice,00:35
alteregoI wish I could get free labour. Would make my life a lot easier.00:35
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acydlordjust pester the local colleges00:36
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alteregoNeah, I'm not that needy.00:38
alteregoI'd feel guilty too. I got paid loads when I was at college.00:39
pupnikfacebook.com is worth almost as much as ford motors00:39
pupnikbut am OT00:39
alteregoI'd like to build up a task force eventually. But I don't make enough money. And I don't have any one that I can trust for the sorts of things I need help doing ^_^00:39
alterego(I've got very strict standards) :)00:39
acydlordi see00:40
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alteregoI'm also greedy. Even though I'm pretty well off and get paid, well, "enough". I could probably afford help every now-and-again.00:41
jubeidoes anyone know how to fix networking for the sdk, so it will actually use dns00:41
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alteregojubei, you probably need to copy across some config files from your host install. (resolv.conf)00:41
alteregomaybe nsswitch.conf too ..00:42
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|Rhttp://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/positions/Nokia.pdf01:21
|Rw-t-f01:21
|Rogg proprietary?01:21
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lopzbye01:28
|RWhy is it that every big corp has one part smoking crack while the other is on LSD?01:29
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GeneralAntillesHaha, dunno, |R.01:31
GeneralAntillesSad thing, though, isn't it?01:31
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|RGeneralAntilles : indeed...01:46
|RThey miss a good free software advocate in the maemo group or something...01:46
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GeneralAntillesWhy do people insist on using PDFs when it's absolutely unnecessary? :\01:49
|Rand flash...01:50
|RAnd docs, and wmv, and ... uhm :)01:50
GeneralAntillesHa01:50
GeneralAntillesYou can't even get usable text out of a PDF01:50
derfhalley: Around?01:50
GeneralAntillesThe encoding is always screwed up.01:50
|Ryeah :/01:50
|Rgive me you latex source!01:50
|R(oh wait, people use GUI ;)01:51
|Rs/you/your01:51
GeneralAntillesAdobe freaking designed Acrobat to be contrary.01:51
derfYou can view LaTeX in a GUI.01:51
|Rderf : klyx? :)01:51
GeneralAntilles"Oh, you want this in RTF?"01:51
derfOr gvim.01:51
GeneralAntilles"Let me hard-wrap everything for you."01:51
|Rhaha ;)01:51
derfIt's better if you just think of a PDF as a bunch of TIFF files with really good compression.01:52
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GeneralAntillesHa01:53
|R:)01:53
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halleyderf, aye.01:54
derfhalley: Try the new gjiten_2.6-1maemo_armel.deb01:56
halleyIsn't that the same version number?01:57
derfYou should be able to close and reopen the radical window now.01:57
* halley fetches...01:57
derfOf course, this is not a release.01:57
halleySo I uninstall then install, right?01:57
derfI think if you dpkg -i it'll do that for you.01:57
derfI'll do a formal release with a nice chinook repository set up later.01:58
halleyI tried replacing the icon but it still draws the new 50x50 one at 26x26 (the old size).  Weird.01:58
derfYou also should be able to click on the spin buttons for stroke count, etc., without it incrementing two or three times now.01:58
halleyTrying now...01:59
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derfIf you find any other issues, let me know.01:59
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derfI think the only other one I know of is that if you search for whole English words, it'll highlight every instance of the string in the entry, even if it's not a whole word.02:00
halleyHrm, didn't see any change in the radical window behavior, checking if I did install wrong.02:01
halleyOh, I did.  wget added a .102:01
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derf(but that's an upstream bug... not that most of these others weren't, also)02:02
halleyIt goes crazy trying to search each time I click ^ or v but it does work.02:03
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derfWell, I mean, that's what it's supposed to do.02:04
halleyYeah... understood.  Maybe a "wait 250ms then start searching" but I know that's adding complexity.02:05
derfYou're supposed to enter a few radicals, etc., first.02:05
halleyAgreed.02:05
derfOr, you know, get a faster processor.02:05
halleyHeh.02:05
derf(battery life? what battery life?)02:06
halleyThe search by strokes is just OVER the radicals, so it seems logical someone would dial that in first.02:06
halleyI'm just quibbling, this is awesome.02:06
halleyIf I figure out the icon sizing anomaly, I'll give it to you.02:06
derfYeah, I didn't design the program.02:06
halleyGood deal.02:07
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Species8472hi02:25
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l7hey, is anyone finding the samba feature in os 2008 buggy?02:33
l7it seems to work part of the time02:33
l7then it breaks until i restore the original settings02:34
l7then after a while it seems to break again02:34
halleySeems to work until you adjust it.  Hm.02:35
GeneralAntillesFigure out something consistently reproducible and file a bug. :)02:36
l7halley: how do you adjust it?02:38
l7it seems that there are no configuration settings for it02:38
l7GeneralAntilles: only pattern i can see so far that it breaks after a while and restore all settings fixes it02:39
GeneralAntillesThen file that.02:39
GeneralAntillesGive some timeframe, and describe the "breaking".02:39
l7breaking simply means that file manager does not see any samba shares anymore02:40
l7and i think it breaks after about a day or two02:40
halleyhttp://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html02:40
l7i'm not sure if clear all data fixes it02:40
l7i think i can test that later, if it breaks again02:41
Species8472I found a bug too.02:41
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Species8472It has a red colour.02:41
Species8472And six legs.02:41
Species8472Where can I file it GeneralAntilles?02:42
l7very funny02:42
GeneralAntillesl7, does usage influence it?02:42
l7i was just wondering if anyone else had noticed02:42
Species8472thanks l7, though 'ha' would be a more appropriate response02:43
l7i've been using it only very lightly02:43
l7maybe running other applications such as the browser, or ssh affect it02:44
l7or it could be my flaky router, but that wouldn't explain why restoring settings would fix it02:44
GeneralAntillesThe network fileshares implementation is pretty flaky altogether right now.02:45
GeneralAntillesUPnP is a lot worse than in OS2007.02:45
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GeneralAntillesOpen a bug, and it should bring some sort of response.02:46
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l7does wizard mounter differ from the file manager in OS2008?02:46
l7hrm, okay02:46
l7anyhow it needs some more features, like the ability to refresh the share you are looking at w/o closing and reopening file manager02:47
GeneralAntillesAt the very least, even if they've already fixed it internally, it'll give us a marker to track changes.02:47
l7maemo.org is slow again :\02:47
GeneralAntillesl7, open some enhancement requests while you're at it. :P02:48
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GeneralAntillesbugzilla seems ok.02:48
l7heh, i will after i can get this thing to load02:48
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Species8472hi unique31102:48
unique311who u?02:48
GeneralAntillesA troll, ignore him. ;)02:48
Species8472I'm Species8472, and you?02:48
unique311i am unique31102:49
unique311but now i will ignore you, considering i've been told to do so.02:49
Species8472GeneralAntilles why are you trying to set everyone against me calling me a troll every time?02:49
GeneralAntillesBecause I know you. :)02:49
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Species8472hi philipl02:50
Species8472philipl, be sure to ignore GeneralAntilles, he's a troll02:50
Species8472I have to go, bye GeneralAntilles02:56
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l7"Zarro Boogs found. "02:58
l7cute.02:58
zerojayl7: New to bugzilla, I assume?02:58
l7zerojay: yeah02:58
l7i think i saw an app for a bugzilla client on the IT02:59
zerojayMabugz.02:59
zerojayI use it for my Bugzilla at work as well.03:00
GeneralAntillesAny word on an OS2008 version?03:00
zerojayI thought yerga already brought one out?03:01
GeneralAntillesHadn't noticed.03:01
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lopzre03:08
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Tenkawahey all03:41
* Tenkawa just flashed his 800 to 200803:41
halleyEr, congrats?03:41
Tenkawahows it run so far for you all?03:41
VulcanisAmazingly.03:42
Vulcanisyoutube is bearable.03:42
Tenkawaheheheh03:42
VulcanisStuff still crashes, though.03:42
VulcanisQuetoo is fast.03:42
TenkawaI kinda look forward to messing with pidgin on it03:42
VulcanisYeah.03:42
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Tenkawadid they do anything to help battery life?03:42
GeneralAntillesTenkawa: jablet.net03:42
VulcanisIt doesn't make it any worse, but I don't think it made it much better, either03:42
GeneralAntillesYes, Tenkawa.03:42
Tenkawaheh03:43
GeneralAntillesThe CPU throttles now03:43
Tenkawanice03:43
GeneralAntillesso it jumps around between 165MHz and 400MHz.03:43
Tenkawathats handy03:43
Vulcanishablet better than pidgin?03:43
Vulcanisja*03:43
GeneralAntillesYes.03:44
GeneralAntillesUses built-in client, which is so much better.03:44
l7so jablet is better than pidgin?03:44
GeneralAntillesYes.03:44
l7oops, jinx i guess :)03:44
l7i wonder if there's any privacy issues there03:45
GeneralAntillesNo.03:45
GeneralAntillesIf you're worried03:45
GeneralAntillesgo interrogate zerojay.03:45
l7heh okay03:45
* |R still going to use pidgin though... (security work deforms the mind right :P)03:45
l7hah03:46
l7well i haven't convinced many people to use OTR encryption anyhow03:46
|Rthat and OTR03:46
|Reveryone i know use it now that's it's included basically everywhere03:46
|Rs/'s//03:46
infobot|R meant: everyone i know use it now that it's included basically everywhere03:46
|RI guess geeky people don't like added complexity, but i encourage the effort nonetheless :)03:47
GeneralAntillesAdium's OTR is basically transparent.03:48
|Ryeah03:48
|Rwe need OTR for SIP now ;)03:49
Robot101there should be the pidgin-based backend for the built-in stuff available soon03:51
Robot101aaaany day now03:51
|Rhehe03:51
* halley can't believe there's an infobot that parses s/// for the lazy03:54
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* |R neither and actually finds this annoying... ;)03:57
|RRobot101 : was this sarcastic or a real statement? weren't you working on telepathy? :)03:57
Robot101a real statement. and yes, I was. I still am :)03:58
* |R confused ;)03:58
Robot101well, actually these days I seem to be trying to patch ejabberd for OLPC03:58
Robot101but I don't know erlang so it's kinda hard03:58
|Rhehe :)03:58
l7it will be nice to avoid installing pidgin03:59
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l7has anyone noticed that the tablet runs faster with less apps installed?04:01
l7emptying out the built in flash seems to help a bit too04:01
l7There was an error communicating with the server.04:03
l7Details: None04:03
l7weird, this is what it said when i signed with Psi04:03
zerojaySay my name, say my name...04:03
l7nvm, it seems to be working04:04
l7i think Psi gave me that message becaues i was also signed into jabber with ichat04:04
l7i guess it doesn't like multiple logins04:04
zerojayl7: In terms of privacy, there's only one person with access to the Jabber server and that's me... and I don't give a shit about what you think of your mom's cooking or what Doug thinks of the Cowboys this year or whatever.04:04
zerojayl7: Logs are kept, but only three of the four types.04:05
zerojayl7: warn for server warnings (Java errors, mostly), err (again, mostly Java errors), info (mainly new users).04:05
zerojayl7: Last one is debug, which is absolutely everything, including everyone's messages.04:06
l7how long are the logs kept?04:06
zerojayl7: However, due to the incredibly huge amount of traffic involved, even if I wanted to read everyone's messages, it's more or less impossible just because of the volume... so debug is never logged unless I specifically am trying to debug a problem in the server (like I did with this Y! issue I've been having).04:07
zerojayI would say it grows by about 2MB/sec.04:07
zerojaySo.. yeah.. lol04:07
l7are the account names and passwords on your server as well?04:08
halleyBut the NSA could sneak a copy!04:08
zerojayYes. Account names are shown. Passwords are only stored encrypted.04:08
zerojayThe GUI allows me to change the password that the gateway will use to authenticate, but of course doesn't show what the original password was.. .and of course, does not allow me to change the password you use to connect to those services.04:09
zerojayl7: The server software I run is called Openfire.04:10
zerojayl7: If you've got any other questions, feel free to ask.04:10
l7eh, i generally have faith in open source projects04:11
halleyCould someone PLEASE tell me how an app icon is *supposed* to be located so that it appears at the right scale in all the menus and sidebar?  No matter where I put files of whatever size, they show up wrong-sized somewhere.04:11
l7but it never hurts to be paranoid :)04:11
zerojayl7: Oh... the logs I believe are kept until I tell it to get rid of them, but since the three types of logs I keep show nothing along the lines of your conversations or whatever.. there's no privacy issues there.04:11
zerojayl7: Debug, I generally just remove after I'm done needing it, though I sometimes get lazy and don't remove it after turning off debug logging (usually because I'm on a weak wifi at work and I'm already freaking out about some potential problem on the Jabber server...)04:12
l7hrm, that is true04:13
l7i guess the convenience factor is worth it, it's not like unencrypted IM is really that secure to begin with04:14
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zerojayI realize that I'm just another faceless name out there in the internet ether, so my word can't count for much, but I can tell you that I honestly just don't give a shit about what you do or say so long as you aren't trying to take the server down or cause any disruptions.04:14
zerojayMost of the time, if I'm on IM, I'm joking around with friends or catching up with them or sending URLs or whatever. The only time I would say that people should need encrypted IM is when they're doing work... but if you are doing work that needs to remain private, well,  you've already failed when you routed it out publically anyways.04:16
halleyGeez, no doubt.04:16
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zerojay319 accounts. Cool.04:17
zerojayMore people are using the tablets as a client than I expected.04:18
zerojayWell, if you go by the idea that resource "Telepathy" = tablet, anyways.04:18
l7hrm, jabber is a pretty cool protocol if it can do all these things04:20
l7i wonder if it could mirror irc channels too04:20
zerojayThere is an IRC transport to allow you to use IRC through your Jabber account.04:20
zerojayYes, it works on the tablets.04:21
l7wow nice04:21
zerojayNo, I cannot activate it.04:21
l7oh04:21
l7maybe another jabber client supports it04:21
zerojayUnfortuately, because the uplink my provider uses specifically disallows IRC traffic, my provider, and thus I, to my dismay, have to as well.04:22
zerojayJabber clients don't support anything.04:22
zerojayThe Jabber servers do.04:22
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zerojayBelieve me, not needing to have Xchat installed anymore would be nice. :)04:23
l7hmm, are you running the jabber server from your house?04:23
zerojayThough I wonder how slow it would go in a channel like this.04:23
zerojayNo.04:23
zerojayBefore I started Jablet, I ran the Openfire server on my home Linux box (same one I'm typing to you on now) to take a look at how Openfire worked, but before I went public, I paid for a hosting service.04:23
l7ah cool04:24
l7how long are you going to run it?04:24
l7is it a non-profit type of experiment?04:24
zerojayAs long as I possibly can. I personally use it as well.04:24
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zerojayIt's sort of a partnership between Texrat and I.04:25
zerojayI just wanted to host the thing.. he wanted to handle the non-profit kind of stuff or whatever.04:25
zerojayI don't know anything about that kind of stuff, to be honest.04:25
zerojayWe accept donations which go directly to hosting costs.04:25
zerojay(If I could get the money out of the account anyways...)04:26
l7ah, well it is cool that you are providing a free service to the community04:26
zerojayHe's got to set it up with a bank account before any sort of transaction could be made with the Paypal account... or some stupidity like that.04:26
l7what is the homepage?04:27
zerojayWell, I wanted an excuse to run a Jabber server. I've been using Jabber on and off for about 7 years now.04:27
zerojayjabber.net, though there's not really much to look at for the moment.04:27
zerojayKind of started work on the Jabber server first.04:27
zerojayer.04:27
zerojayWait.04:27
zerojayJablet.net04:27
zerojaylol04:27
l7heh04:28
l7jabber.net looks kinda corporate04:28
zerojayAnyways, I was getting kind of annoyed with people saying that you HAD to have PIdgin installed to get onto AIM and MSN and others.. so I decided to prove them wrong and show them the benefits.04:28
zerojayAnd so Jablet was born.04:28
zerojayOther ideas are happening.04:28
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zerojayVideo Center database which works (waiting on Video Center to get a 2008 port though)04:29
zerojayBasically, it's one click adding of podcasts/videocasts in formats known to work on the tablets.04:29
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zerojayWorks the same way as Nokia's own service catalog.04:29
l7hrm, that sounds pretty cool04:29
l7the IT platform is looking better and better04:30
zerojayI'm looking into also hosting a version of Mugshot's service as well, which also uses the same Openfire server I run.04:30
zerojayTo sort of give tablet users one place they can give others to show... sort of like "my life online.. what I've been doing recently" showing off, say... recent blog posts, songs played through last.fm, pics added to flickr, whatever else works through RSS.04:31
zerojay(Mugshot doesn't quite give me all the services I want.)04:31
zerojayHere's my Mugshot page: http://mugshot.org/person?who=Q6n0GbNzCVmQZf04:32
l7mugshot.org?  that looks convenient04:32
zerojaySo... a bit of an idea of what I want to do for tablet users.04:32
zerojayMaybe a bit more integration into the Jabber server perhaps.04:33
l7hrm, mugshot sort of reminds me of nokia' MOSH04:34
l7s/nokia'/nokia's04:34
zerojayMosh is more about collecting things and posting them for others to see.. Mugshot's kind of more about showing what you've been up to.04:35
l7 mugs04:36
l7whups04:36
zerojaySo the whole Jablet thing is kind of... along the lines of what I've always wanted to do for myself, but didn't have the motivation to do until others said they were interested as well. :P04:36
VulcanisGeneralAntilles: With jablet, since it is a second jabber account... is there a way to merge both "accounts", so I don't have to choose one account when I try to message them.04:44
Vulcanis. = ?04:44
zerojayVulcanis: You already have a Jabber account somewhere else?04:44
VulcanisYeah, googletalk04:44
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zerojayGoogletalk's separate.04:45
VulcanisThought that used jabber, too?04:45
zerojayIt does.04:45
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zerojayYou can use it in two ways.04:45
VulcanisThen maybe I don't see what you're trying to say04:45
zerojayOne: Have one Jabber account, one Googletalk account on your tablet.04:45
zerojayTwo: Have one Jabber account and use your Googletalk account through the GTalk gateway on the Jablet server.04:46
VulcanisI guess I'll have to do that04:46
zerojayEither way, you can add the same person on both if you choose and merge them together in the Contacts app.04:46
Vulcanisbecause otherwise, it gives an annoying prompt every time I try ot message someone04:46
zerojayWhich prompt is that?04:47
VulcanisSec.04:47
VulcanisFrom speed contacts, do not know if it is from anywhere else.04:47
Vulcanisspeed contacts > name > chat option in the menu > box pops up with my jabber account and my gtalk account, asking me to choose one04:48
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VulcanisWell, the top one shows a gtalk chatbubble and the jabber lightbulb, so dunno.04:48
zerojayYeah, because you have that same person added on both accounts.04:48
VulcanisNo, I do not.04:48
VulcanisThey are not in my gtalk account04:48
Vulcanisthey only appear once under "all", too.04:49
zerojayWell, it's because it's Jabber.. and since you have a Gtalk and a Jabber account... that would be why.04:49
zerojayI think you won't get that prompt if you use the Gtalk gateway on my server.04:50
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zerojayShould happen anytime I try to message someone on Gtalk, right?04:50
zerojayI'll try it.04:50
VulcanisI just added it, so it doesn't really matter anyway.04:50
Vulcanisand I'll kill the gtalk on the n800.04:50
zerojayok04:50
VulcanisSo how do I authorize the contacts on the tablet?04:53
zerojayThey should already be authorized, I believe.04:54
zerojayCheck your Contacts.04:54
Vulcanisit says they are not, once I added them through psi and tried to chat through the n800 client04:54
zerojayAre you on both at once?04:55
VulcanisOh, actually.04:55
VulcanisI forgot to close gtalk on the laptop.04:55
zerojayGenerally speaking, if someone is on your contact list on Gtalk, they should already be authorized on the tablet as well.04:56
VulcanisYeah, but this is going through the jablet server.04:56
VulcanisStill says unauthorized04:56
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zerojayShouldn't change anything.04:57
VulcanisRestarting the tablet to see if that helps at all.04:57
zerojayIf they show up as authorized on Gtalk, they should on the server as well.04:57
VulcanisYes, but for some reason, they are not.04:57
zerojayVulcanis: What's your Jablet account name? I'll check and see what the server thinks.04:57
Vulcanisshould be chaos@jablet.org04:57
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VulcanisIts odd, though04:58
VulcanisPsi can use it04:58
zerojayAll your subscriptions are only one-way.04:58
VulcanisI'm new to this, you're going to need to explain thta.04:59
zerojayWhen you add someone to your buddy list, you're asking them for authorization. If they say yes, you've got an authorization to them. If they never add YOU to their list, the authorization is only one way.05:00
zerojayHm.. I'm starting to wonder if you're having the same issue I had.05:00
VulcanisNo, I have messaged them.05:00
Vulcanisand they have back.  So I do not think it is that.05:00
zerojayYou don't need to have authorization to message or receive messages.05:00
zerojayAuthorization is for viewing status.05:00
VulcanisHm.05:01
zerojayHang on a sec... I think you might have been bit by the same thing I have been.. wait a sec.05:01
zerojayOpen up a contact that you are having this problem with.05:01
zerojayGo to Contacts, and look at their information.05:01
zerojayYou should see their Gmail/AIM whatever listed there.05:01
Vulcanischecking05:02
VulcanisYeah.05:02
zerojayI think what is happening is that the tablet sometimes decides "all Gtalk and Jabber contacts should be contactable"... and other times, it sees the accounts as separate.05:03
VulcanisWell, apparently, this is just showing @gmail.com05:03
Vulcanisso it may be using the old contact info05:03
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zerojayhttps://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=637 <-- Look at the icon before the person's Jabber accounts listed there.. do you see the same icon or do you see....05:03
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zerojayhttps://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=638 <-- this dual icon?05:04
Vulcanisits a dual icon, as I had said before.05:04
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zerojayYeah, that's the problem.05:04
zerojayCopy the text in the field, create a new field for the Jabber account, paste it and hit ok... and you should get your authorizations.05:04
VulcanisUngh.  Here goes 15 of them.05:05
zerojayAt least you haven't had to to 60+ of them on an almost daily basis like I have.05:05
zerojay:)05:05
zerojayI believe this is a bug on the tablet if Gtalk's been added.. I'm not sure.05:05
VulcanisHeh.05:05
Vulcanisgtalk _was_ added05:05
VulcanisI killed it05:05
zerojayhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=242105:06
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zerojayYou've got me interested now.. wonder what my contacts show on the server.05:07
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zerojayFuck... it says to also.05:07
zerojayVulcanis: I think I can do it for you.05:08
zerojayVulcanis: Don't do anything. I'll change it to both on the server and we'll see what it does.05:08
zerojay(If there's no need to go pasting over and over again...)05:08
VulcanisYeah.05:08
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pupnikPsi 5 Trading company05:09
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VulcanisBah, apparently, because I had the gtalk account before, anyone with the same name stayed associated with that05:13
VulcanisBecause some of the gtalk contacts I did not have there, are at something/gtalk... but the ones that don't work are still @gmail.com05:13
zerojayTo be on the safe side, I'll set them to have auth both ways on the server.05:13
zerojayYour contacts.05:14
VulcanisThanks.05:14
zerojaySeems that all my MSN contacts are just "To".05:14
lopzbye05:17
Vulcanisyeah, turns out there were multiple contacts under 'all'05:19
VulcanisThanks, though.05:19
zerojaynp05:22
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pupnik[Slashdot: Your Rights Online] Nokia Claims Ogg Format is "Proprietary" -06:14
pupnikhttp://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdotYourRightsOnline/~3/197722474/article.pl06:14
GeneralAntillesIs it actually even an official Nokia stance?06:16
GeneralAntillesIt seems rather blown out of proportion.06:16
pupnikhttp://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/positions/Nokia.pdf06:16
|Rwell, that's what the pdf says06:17
pupnik"Any DRM-incompatible video-related mechanism is a non-starter with the content industry (Hollywood)"06:18
pupnikthat's fairly indisputable i guess06:18
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|RThat good old Symbian mentality? ;)06:18
GeneralAntillesThere's a smilie in that pdf06:19
GeneralAntillesHow utterly unprofessional.06:19
pupnikAnything beyond that, including a W3C-lead standardization of a ?free? codec, or the06:19
pupnikactive endorsement of proprietary technology such as Ogg, ?, by W3C, is, in our06:19
pupnikopinion, not helpful for the co-existence of the two ecosystems (web and video), and06:19
pupniktherefore not our choice.06:19
|Rcan we fire that lawyer?06:20
|R:P06:20
GeneralAntilles"All these alternatives are, in our opinion, preferable over the recommendation of the06:22
GeneralAntillesOgg technologies, based almost exclusively on the current perception of them being06:22
GeneralAntillesfree."06:22
GeneralAntillesStupid PDFs and their stupid hard-wrapping.06:22
pupnikI presonally do not buy any drm content (excepting DVDs which are trivially reproduceable now)06:22
|Ri don't buy content, i live content...06:22
pupnikBut for companies to support a standard i understand why they would insist on DRM.06:22
|R(shows for example, i refuse to pay for anything tangible)06:23
pupnikShould ogg have had a mechanism for supporting DRM content?06:24
|Rif it's a flag like the original pdf security, that you can ignore, sure ;)06:24
pupnikI guess i disagree with nokia.  Web standards as defined by W3C should be open (and ogg is)06:25
pupnikAnd if any particular company wants to brew their own soup, they can do-so.06:25
GeneralAntilles^06:27
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pupnikBut nokia has a valid business case, that standards for DRM-enabled content will allow manufacturers to better support the online offerings of content providers06:33
|Rdrm in cell phones is going to mean TPM pretty fast...06:34
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d201132exit06:47
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SpasticHello07:05
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SpasticI was wondering if anyone might be kind enough to help me install minimo on OS 2006.07:06
SpasticIs anyone here?07:08
kriebzsorry, I failed in my attempt to install minimo07:09
kriebzit's the middle of the night on a Sunday in the western hemisphere, I'd expect chat to be quiet07:10
SpasticYes, it always is.07:10
SpasticIts a tad frustrating it leaves me wondering what the hell a "X11-common" is. :{07:11
kriebzhave you searched the wiki?07:13
kriebzfoo, I fail to find a pretty world clock for gnome07:13
SpasticA search on Maemo.Org returns nil.07:13
SpasticSo, what kind of tablet do you have?07:15
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kriebz77007:16
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kriebzhttp://www.deal-times.com/General-Talk/Nokia-770-Internet-Tablet/Mini-FireFox-mozilla-based-MINIMO-browser-for-Nokia-770.html07:18
kriebzthis guy claims to have done it07:18
kriebzbut I don't like the idea of downloading his packages07:18
kriebzsketchy07:18
kriebzhe should have just linked07:18
kriebzalso, they may be stale and not work right in the current OS, even if they aren't haxed with07:18
SpasticGot it.07:19
SpasticThanks.07:19
SpasticI have the 770 too. Finding rs-mmc cards is a pain in the ass.. :S07:20
kriebzI got a good deal07:22
kriebzI forget where07:22
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kriebz$22 seems to get you 1GB07:24
kriebzthey are also sold as "MMC mobile"07:24
kriebzI guess rs-mmc didn't roll off the tongue07:24
kriebzthe two slots for the N800 is nice07:24
SpasticYes, doesn't have that same ring too it.07:25
kriebzsince I boot from the MMC, I can't swap it07:25
Spasticare you running the default os?07:25
kriebzI'm running the latest from Nokia07:26
kriebznot hacker edition07:26
kriebzbut I followed the instructions on the wiki to boot from a larger partition on the MMC card07:26
kriebzit's a little faster and even a little more stable, but that might be from bug fixes07:27
kriebzthe only thing that's been crashing my 770 any more is the cold07:27
kriebzhates being cold07:27
SpasticCool, I will probably do that once I get a card.07:28
SpasticBTW, you were right not to trust that guys page. I get incompatible package with all the installs.07:28
kriebzwell, it's old07:29
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kriebzso I'm not surprised07:29
SpasticSorry to ask so many questions, but do you know how to get flash working in the browser?07:29
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pupnik_Spastic: works here07:35
pupnik_if you mean flash9 support, there is a threat on ITT with howto07:36
pupnik_i can't confirm that tho07:36
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SpasticSorry, but what is ITT?07:36
ubuntu_is it possible for a nokia 770 to operate as a display for a computer?07:37
ubuntu_aside from remote desktop07:37
SpasticNot that I know of.07:38
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pupnik_Internet tablet talk08:02
pupnik_forums08:02
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kulvezerojay: yeah, I removed it as I "announced" it offically..08:08
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RaviousDoes anyone know is there some kind of issue with the 2006 repositories?08:23
RaviousIm on a fresh reflash of 2006 on a 770, and im getting all kins of errors trying to install anything off the maemo website.08:24
astro76Ravious, looks like maemo.org is down again08:25
astro76err maybe not08:25
RaviousHmm08:25
RaviousI'm getting all kinds of dependency errors08:26
RaviousHmm.. Oh well.. Guess im reflashing back to HE200708:30
Raviouslol08:30
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oilhi. I wish to create  an debian package. For this I need the ar command, but my openwrt router does not have one. do you know how to go around the problem?08:56
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oileg. do this without 'ar' ar -r your-package-name.deb debian-binary control.tar.gz data.tar.gz08:58
kulvesounds like you are doing a debian package with a hard way ;)08:59
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oilkulve: might be, but I wish to create the package on the fly based on the information set to a web page09:00
oilthis used to work on my linux 'server' but the hd crashed and now I'm trying to install it to the router09:01
oilactually, what would be more easy way to do this?09:04
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melmothany list admin there ? i have been unsubscibe from maemo-user yesterday and cannot subscribe again (no mail asking me to confirm my request)09:11
kulveoil: the real way of building debs is "dpkg-buildpackage", but I assumed you were doing your things in some limited environment..09:12
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oilkulve: yes. I guess I need to change the building part to another device.09:13
oilthanks anyway :)09:13
keesjoil: do it on the nokia itself09:13
zuhpupnik_: About the Nokia position paper, IMO it tells you something already of the attitude when they are constantly saying '"free"'... Also if I were a musician that released music under open formats, I'd be quite miffed at Nokia for dissing my stuff as inferior just by that.09:13
oilkeesj: I'd like to have only one server online. therefore the router would be the best option09:14
pupnik_yes09:14
pupnik_http://pupnik.de/brainmlt.jpg09:14
pupnik_i did that in truespace on a 64MB pc09:14
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keesjoil how does that relate to you question? if you are searching for trouble deliberately your on your onw09:15
kulvekeesj: why would he be on his own? :)09:15
kulveoil: can't you get ar to the router?09:16
kulveit shouldn't be a big binary..?09:16
oilkeesj: well, yes an no. would be best place to have this functionality09:16
keesjthere must be a sh implementation of ar somewhere , it like zip right?09:16
keesjis it your own router btw?09:17
oilkulve: no, can not find. it's asus wl-700ge running kamikaze 7.09.. I'll keep looking09:17
oilkeesj: jes. that's what I'm looking for. if it would be possible to 'simulate' ar with a script or so09:18
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guardianmorning10:19
raviousanyone had a chance to play with maemo fuse?10:21
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Luriahey10:26
Luriaanyone know of a chinook vim deb?10:26
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:28
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lardmanmorning12:16
czrhey all12:16
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alteregoToday, I'm gonna build some crazy modules for my hostified N80012:32
inzWhat makes the modules crazy?12:33
alteregoJust me,12:33
alteregoI make things crazy12:33
czrinz, wet & wild pointers?12:34
alteregoFirstly I'm gonna remove that pesky r&d mode ..12:34
czr"kernel modules all gone wild"12:34
alteregoSounds like a normal day :P12:34
* czr nods12:34
czrI'm trying to solber up mostly. Need to get some stuff for the trip today12:35
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* czr plans to run away from maemo as far as possible, if not further12:35
alteregoI managed to plug my digital camera into the N800, worked "almost" perfectly. It worked but I got a bunch of error messages in th process. Then the device was mounted and the file manager popped open. Tried plugging in a dumb mass storage device. Which I presumed the camera was in that mode, and it didn't work :(12:36
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alterego‌Being able to use my 5in1 card reader on the N810 (when I get it). Will be super handy.12:36
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czrsuper handy = 6 fingers?12:42
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czrlike the hand-signs they have on the doors of the restaurant train cars in finland12:42
alteregoHah12:42
czrit means (in code) "yes we serve alcohol, and if you actually counted the number of fingers in the sign, you need more of it"12:42
alteregoHahah12:43
alteregoSo, you leave tomorrow?12:43
czryeah. at around 4 AM12:44
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alteregoEesh12:44
alteregoWhat's this OMAP2420_SNAPSHOT me wonders.12:46
czr-> goes shopping12:47
alteregoSee you later.12:47
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KhertanHi !12:47
alteregoHola12:47
alterego"CONFIG_MACH_NOKIA_RX44" ?12:47
alteregoInteresting ..12:48
KhertanMACH ... ?12:48
alteregoActually, that makes sense. The kernel would be for both the N800 and the N81012:48
Khertani'm surprising if it s a mach kernel :)12:50
alteregoIt's just a tag for "Machine" :P12:50
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Khertanah ... arf12:56
alteregoInterwesting. They already have USB->Ethernet support for RTL8150 enabled.12:58
wplayyausbnet?13:00
alteregoNo, USB to ethernet adapters.13:00
alteregoAllows you to connect to an Ethernet RJ45 based 10/100/1000 network.13:00
alteregoI've been toying with buying one for the tablet.13:00
wplayyaah ok13:01
wplayyanice idrea13:01
wplayyabut how do zou get 1000MBit on a usb cable_13:01
alteregoGood question ;)13:02
alteregoMaybe it's USB3.0 capable ;)13:02
alteregoUSB3.0 is super fast ..13:02
Khertanhum ... i hope it s doesn't consum your cpu super fast too13:03
Khertanusb2.0 is horrible for that13:03
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alteregoCan't say I've noticed.13:03
wplayyamaybe they use an usb hub to use 2 of them ;)13:03
wplayya2x480 is near to 100013:03
wplayyathe controll info is send over bluetooth13:04
Khertanif u use a hub u divide the bus :)13:04
Khertanspeed13:04
wplayyapssst13:05
alteregoTwo controllers.13:05
wplayyadont desroz the plans13:05
wplayyaargh13:05
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alteregodesroz?13:06
wplayyamz keyboard thinks it has an english layout13:06
alteregoIs that some new kids cartoon or something?13:06
alteregoHmm, seems cold today.13:07
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alteregoGonna work on encrypted filesystem support on my N800 today,13:07
wplayyadestrooy13:07
Khertandoes the n810 has different hardware keyboard layout ?13:07
wplayya-o13:07
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wplayyamy bt keyboard gets really mad with the n80013:08
Khertani still see the same on different store13:08
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alteregoThe images are all qwerty from what I've seen. Though there are different mappings.13:08
wplayyamaybe thez use the same photo from the nokia hp_13:08
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alteregoThere are different mappings for US/UK/EUR I believe too ..13:08
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alteregoModuals builded13:09
Khertansnifff ... i hope it s still a qwerty in france13:10
alteregoWhy wouldn't it be?13:11
alteregoI'm just saying it'll have a EURO instead of USD or GBP symbol :)13:11
Khertanah ok :) i ve understand :)13:11
keesjbut azerty is no fun13:11
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Khertani ven't understood :)13:11
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alteregoMy tablet doesn't seem so cool without the R&D messages on boot :/13:15
Fatal:)'13:15
Khertanalterego > is it you ? : [Bug Tracker]: PyGTKEditor : Severity Feature : Would it be possible to add ruby syntax highlighting to PyGTKEditor? Thanks13:16
Khertan:)13:16
alteregoGod no.13:16
alterego:)13:16
Khertanlol13:16
alteregoI wonder who that was though. It's a good idea.13:16
Khertanhum ... i think i should leave my custom syntax highlighter ...13:17
alteregoI'd actually use it if it had ruby syntax highlighting ;)13:17
Khertanto use GtkSourceView13:17
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Khertanbut ... 770 users will not be happy ...13:17
alteregoI could actually write one _very_ easily in Ruby that used the standard text view.13:18
Khertanalterego > is the ruby syntax is complex to parse ?13:18
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alteregoThere's a neat ruby library that does syntax highlighting for many different languages/filetypes.13:18
alteregoNot really,13:18
alteregoIt's mainly just highlighting keywords and string literals.13:18
Khertanalterego> hum ... where can i find information about that ?13:19
alteregoHaving auto indententation is a little bit trickier. But that should be easy to do if you're familiar with the different code block types.13:19
alteregoKhertan, it's used by pastie.caboo.se I believe.13:19
Khertani ven't autoindent yet in pygtk ...13:19
alteregoThere's a few out there.13:19
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alteregoI know people bitch about it. But I could really do with emacs on the device ..13:20
alteregoOr a decent powerful text editor.13:20
Khertan:)13:20
alteregoEven gedit would do ..13:20
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Khertangedit is good text editor ...13:20
alteregoI'm suprised no-one has ported it yet.13:21
alteregoMaybe I'll do that instead ;)13:21
Khertanhum ...13:21
Khertanyes me too ...13:21
Khertanmaybe we should do that :)13:21
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Khertanpygtkeditor was mainly my first python programm13:21
Khertanjust to learn python ;)13:22
alteregoI tell you what. I'll check out the gedit source and see what kind of a state it's in. What dependencies it requires etc.13:22
alteregoWell it looks like a lot of people like it :) good job13:23
Khertanthanks13:23
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Khertanas i use it my self onboard ... i ve my own idea about how an onboard editor should be :)13:23
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Khertani ve added recently c/c++ syntax highlight and i was sure than someone ll ask for an other language :)13:25
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Khertanand it s show that a least one or more people are interested ...13:26
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wplayyaKhertan, i want to see A syntac highlightning in your editor13:26
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Khertansyntac ... don t know this language :)13:27
KhertanA ...13:27
wplayyasyntax13:27
Khertandon't know too13:27
Khertan:)13:27
wplayyayeah the A python bindings :D13:28
KhertanA ... what is it ? asm ?13:28
wplayyanever heard of it too ;)13:28
Khertanlol13:28
wplayyabefor D there was C, before c there was B, before B there was A13:29
Khertani know B ... C ... D ...13:29
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wplayyaor what about brainfuck?13:29
Khertani now please .... not that13:29
Khertanoh no ... please not that13:29
Khertanmaybe goto++ ... but not brainfuck13:30
Khertanhttp://gpp.niacland.net/index.html.en13:30
wplayyabf++?13:30
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KhertanChaussette Test13:32
Khertanret=Test@Tricoter(«localhost» *(1256))13:32
KhertanGOTOPRINT()13:32
Khertanret=Test@Vider(texte)13:32
KhertanGOTOPRINT()13:32
KhertanGOTOPRINTDUTEXTE() ; &texte13:32
Khertani like the instruction GOTOCHEPA()  ...13:32
melmothany maemo-user list admin here ?13:32
Khertanin english this could be translate by GOTODONTKNOW()13:32
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KhertanGOTOCHEPA() %10 ... (there is 10% of chance of a jump)13:33
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alteregoHah13:34
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wplayyachepa=corsica?13:36
wplayyait remembers me to java2k13:37
Khertanchepa ... a mal formed french sentence to say : " ne sais pas " ... " i don't know "13:37
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Khertanin argo ... "chais pas ... !"13:38
Khertan:)13:38
wplayyathere is a 96% that the solution is right13:38
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wplayyawb playya_13:38
alteregoHeh13:38
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wplayyai thought my granny unplugged the power supply to insert the vacuumer13:39
Khertan... lol ...13:39
Khertani ll come back .. eating time :)13:39
wplayyahehe13:41
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jottanyone had success using the (device program) discount code on shop.nokia.de?13:44
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alteregoTry on Friday jott13:47
jottalterego: thanks. just wondering if it was just me :).13:49
alteregoWell, Nokia said we should be able to buy on Friday .. So ..13:49
alteregoDon't expect _anything_ to work until then ;)13:49
lardmannot long, yay!13:50
jottyes.. no problem.. i can wait :)13:50
alterego:)13:50
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alteregoIf all goes to their master plan lardman ;) I'm still not convinced the N810 really exists.13:50
lardman:)13:51
wplayyahopefully i get one too13:51
wplayyahow could i say my chief that os2008 on n800 isnt the same like n810?13:52
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* alterego fights with some dependency hell.13:58
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VReIs there some nice wasy way to give input to program depending on what the program outputs?14:01
felipecwplayya: it's different hardware...14:01
alteregoO_o14:02
alteregoVRe, can you give a better example of what you want?14:02
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VRealterego: program asks password, I give password..14:03
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alteregoVRe, there's a password dialog in the hildon widget set.14:03
alteregoUse that.14:03
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VRealterego: No I want to feed the program according (command line) its output14:04
alteregoWhat?14:04
alteregoecho "password" | ./program ?14:04
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VRethat is stateless.. it might ask something else than just password. And that still doesn't work with all the programs14:05
alteregoYou're not giving very good examples.14:05
alteregoWhat do you mean "all the programs"?14:06
VReprograms says aa, I have to say bb or the program might say cc and then I need to say dd14:06
alteregoWhat programs?14:06
alteregoUse expect14:06
VRein general, I suppose somekind of testing automation prog could do it14:06
alteregoexpect14:06
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alteregoThough, I have no idea why you're asking here for this information ..14:07
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rothielHell World :)14:07
rothielHello World :)14:07
alteregoI think you were right the first time :P14:08
VRealterego: Hey, not everything on the tablet is gui14:08
alteregoVRe, sure. but don't you think it would have been more appropriate to ask in #linux or #unix or something?14:08
alteregoWhat you're trying to do has nothing to do with the tablet.14:08
alteregoNot specifically ..14:08
VReclose enough14:08
alteregoWhatever.14:09
alteregoUse expect, next time ask somewhere else.14:09
VReyes daddy14:10
alteregoA thank you for answering your question would have been nicer.14:10
alteregoYour sarcasm isn't exactly productive.14:10
VReyes, thank you for the answer. not for lecture14:10
* alterego decides to add VRe to his help blacklist.14:12
alteregoI actually didn't have one before.14:12
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Khertanre14:30
* Jaffa spots in the scrollback that the /. story on Ogg & Nokia has been mentioned already (at 04:20 UTC): http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/09/204520014:31
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guardianJaffa: so nokia is against ogg because there is no drm support ?14:43
guardiandid i get it right ?14:43
JaffaThat's what /. says. The paper itself is slightly more intelligent on my quick skim14:44
guardiani just read it quickly14:44
tsavolamp3 has drm support?? :)14:44
guardianhowever, understand it fully requires culture on the subject14:44
guardianwhich i barely have14:45
tsavolahasn't the generic (non-nokia-specific) corporate story been that ogg is a potential patent minefield?14:46
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mgedminsounds like FUD14:52
mgedminbut it might be substantiated14:53
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VRemgedmin: if one asks a lawyer one can't do anything (ogg), and I think with ogg somebody made the mistake and asked15:00
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baro_hola yerga, how's your schedule?15:02
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gopiiirc, one or more of the MP3 patent owners basically said, "we got lotsa patents. We can't imagine you can do anything that smells like MP3 without licensing some of our patents."15:06
alteregoInteresting.15:10
alteregoLike meta tags?15:10
alteregoThough, really. They can't call dibs on that, considering it's been in various image formats for a lot longer than MP3 has been around ..15:10
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|tbb|hi all, when canola will be released  for chinook ?15:15
Khertan_VMalterego: maybe you can help me ... :-)15:15
Khertan_VM/scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: cannot find -lffi15:16
Khertan_VMdoes it mean something for u ?15:16
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kulveyou are missing libffi15:18
kulve(I think..)15:18
Khertan_VMu are right ...15:19
Khertan_VMthanks15:19
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Khertani don't know very well linux compilation tool15:23
Khertanbut after a make && make install15:24
Khertanmany seems to include script to create debian package after15:24
Khertanwhat is the traditionnal way to do that ...15:24
Khertan?15:24
Khertan_VMmake distcheck15:26
Khertan_VMthen make dist M15:26
Khertan_VM?15:26
kulvemake distcheck produces a tar ball. Untar it to a different location and then dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot15:27
kulvethat's a good way of working. But many packages aren't good enough to have working distcheck, so you need to do things a bit differently15:28
Khertan_VMand is it in the Makefile script ?15:28
Khertan_VMbecause i get an error on distcheck :)15:28
Khertan_VMas you said :  many packages aren't good  enough to have working distcheck15:29
kulvedpkg-buildpackage runs the make etc, (if the package is debianized)15:29
Khertan_VM:)15:29
kulveif you take the sources from VCS (like cvs or svn), export the sources from there and just run "dpkg-buildpackge -rfakeroot"15:29
kulveor if you just got a tarball somewhere, run "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot"15:30
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Khertan_VMthx15:30
kulvebut the dpkg-buildpackage works only for debianized packages, i.e. packages with debian directory in the main dir15:30
Khertan_VMit s an debiannized package15:30
Khertan_VMbut i need to edit some script to work :)15:31
Khertan_VMchecking for a Python interpreter with version >= 2.5... configure: error: no suitable Python interpreter found15:31
Khertan_VMstill the same thing with scratchbox ... i need to edit to modify te ./configure by ./configure PYTHON=/usr/bin.python2.515:32
Khertan_VMhum ... do u know which script invoke the configure script from a dpkg-buildpackage ?15:37
Khertan_VMi ve modified debian/rules to add python=/usr/bin/python2.515:37
Khertan_VMbut i still get the error ... and when i call configure with the python path i get no configure error15:38
Khertan_VM?15:38
kulvedebian/rules is the one to hack, but I don't know how, since I don't know what package your are editing (and I don't want to know either ;)15:38
Khertan_VM(hihi15:38
Khertan_VM)15:38
Khertan_VMthank for ur help ...15:39
Khertan_VMi ll try to find :)15:39
Spakman_hello. How can I detect a press of the back button? Does it map to one of the function keys?15:39
Khertan_VMyes15:39
Khertan_VMit s a function key15:39
Khertan_VMdon t remember which15:40
Spakman_thanks Khertan_VM15:40
Spakman_anyone else remember?15:40
Khertan_VMkulve: thanks a lot ...15:42
Khertan_VMpackage build :)15:42
Khertan_VMi need to test it now :)15:42
kulvenp :)15:42
kulve"maemo.org will have a short, 15 mins maintenance break starting in a15:43
kulvefew minutes. The server will get some more RAM."15:43
Khertan_VMthx for the info <<<15:43
Khertanneed to get source from svn15:43
Khertan:)15:44
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alteregoFlaming doctools.15:47
alterego15 minutes just to add a bit of RAM ..15:47
alteregoDo the techs have arthritis?15:48
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alteregoI've got a neat idea. I'm thinking of adding support for gnome desktop applets.15:53
alteregoWould be nice to port the weather applet. And some others,.15:54
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Khertanalterego > i'm porting it in python :)15:55
Khertanas gnome applet are in python :)15:55
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alteregoOh, does python have hildon desktop plugin support yet?15:56
alteregoWas it not supposed to be completed last week?15:56
alteregoHah, my screen protector is so scratched it's just matte ^_^15:56
GeneralAntillesFactory?15:57
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alteregoFactory?15:58
gw280has the default root password changed on OS2008?15:58
alteregoLooks like I'm finally making progress with my gedit port.15:58
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alteregogw280, probably, enable r&d change it, then disable r&d15:58
gw280hrm.15:59
gw280how does one enable R&D mode?15:59
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suihkulokkiroot pw is still the same, just the root account is locked if root password is still rootme and rd mode is not enabled16:00
GeneralAntillesProtector, alterego.16:00
Khertanalterego > i ve compiled it16:00
Khertanpackaged it16:00
Khertanand i m testing it :)16:00
alteregoYeah it is.16:00
alteregoKhertan, damn you.16:00
Khertanand thanks to kulve for his help :)16:00
alteregoI guess I might as well just stop now then.16:01
alteregoThat was a wasted 30 minutes.16:01
* alterego thinks of something else to port.16:01
Khertanstop what ?16:01
alteregoMy gedit port ..16:01
Khertani m not talking about gedit ...16:02
alteregoOh, okay.16:02
Khertani m talking about python hildon desktop :)16:02
alteregoWhat were you talking about? :P16:02
alteregoOh right.16:02
alteregoGood16:02
Khertanarf ... i ve see your line about gedit :)16:02
Khertani ve read the previous one ;)16:02
felipecgw280: google probably knows :)16:02
gw280felipec: yeah, just seen :P16:03
alteregoI'll continue my port of gedit then :P16:03
Khertanarg my binding package doen't include an python home appplet example ... arg16:03
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alteregoIt'll make me happy. Having a decent text editor with syntax highlighting.16:03
Khertanalterego> yes ... continue :)16:03
alteregoNot to mention the plugin architecture is pretty cool *(python support) :P16:03
Khertanalterego > are you saying than PyGTKEditor isn't a decent text editor ???16:04
Khertan;-)16:04
alteregoHeh16:04
alteregoIt's young.16:04
alteregoAnd I'd rather not install Python :P16:04
Khertanyeah i know you doen't like python16:04
alteregoI don't dislike python.16:04
Takwhy not go whole hog and install monodevelop?16:04
alteregoeclipse :P16:05
KhertanTak > lol16:05
|tbb|hi all, when canola will be released  for chinook ?16:06
Khertan|tbb| > when it ll be done16:07
alteregoHeh16:07
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Takhaha, finnish spellchecker16:09
Takjust add extra random Ks, Ts, and Us :-P16:09
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Takpupnik_: you can mess with the permissions between dh_fixperms and dh_md5sums in the binary/arch (etc) targets in debian/rules16:15
Takwow, IBM has a lot of developer articles about the n800: http://tinyurl.com/2b3qr816:18
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alteregoYeah, I've seen them.16:18
alteregoNot bad :)16:18
alteregoHmm .. The latest version of gedit _needs_ the latest gtk releases etc ..16:20
alteregoThat's annoying.16:21
Takbackport?16:22
alteregoLooks like that's the only option yeah.16:22
alteregoI'm gonna find the latest tree that will compile properly.16:22
alteregoThen check the differences between releases ..16:23
Takyay g++! "error: no match for 'operator*' in '*#'obj_type_ref' not supported by dump_expr#<expression error>"16:25
alteregoHeh16:25
alteregoThat looks pretty.16:25
TakI would just fudge the autofoo and look at the compile errors16:25
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alteregoGood plan.16:26
alteregoI don't really know auto foo.16:26
alteregoBut it'll give me a chance to look into it ;)16:26
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alteregoHandy, there's an environment variable I can use to over ride all the pkg-config errors.16:28
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Khertanarg ... binding don't seems to work!16:37
Khertangrrr16:37
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alteregoKhertan, bindings?16:39
Khertanyeah my hildondesktop python binding ... :)16:39
alteregoUse the ruby one.16:39
alteregoIt works.16:39
Khertanmaybe it s just my applet which doesn't work16:39
alteregoMaybe16:39
Khertanalterego > no ! i ll do it in python !16:39
Khertan:)16:40
alteregoYou should write a test case.16:40
alteregoPython doesn't work, just give up and port it to Ruby :P16:40
Khertan(it s what i m writting)16:40
Khertanalterego > does we can execute python code in ruby ?16:40
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Khertan;)16:40
Takheresy!16:40
Khertan:)16:40
alteregoYeah, that'd just be pointless.16:41
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alteregoIt'd make Ruby buggy like Python16:41
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Khertanpython isn't buggy ... the problem is between the screen and the chair ...16:41
alteregoYeah, you wouldn't have that problem if you use Ruby16:41
Takoh, so the problem is with the programmer16:41
alteregoRuby has a better screen-chair interface.16:41
ttmrichterHang on, did I just see that right?  Is there a Ruby port to the N800 complete with Hildon support?16:42
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Takyes.16:42
alteregottmrichter, yes. I've been working on it for months :P16:42
ttmrichterWHERE?!?!  :D16:42
Takttmrichter: it is teh awesome.16:42
alteregohttp://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ruby-maemo16:42
* ttmrichter is going to start a killing spree if he doesn't get an URL soon....16:43
Takthere's also rubygame support16:43
ttmrichterDamned lag!16:43
alteregoHeh16:43
alteregoYeah, thanks to Tak for that :)16:43
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ttmrichterYou have *NO* idea how happy you just made me!16:43
Khertanalterego > i think you have already make home applet in ruby ...16:43
alteregottmrichter, merry christmas ;)16:43
alteregoKhertan, yeah. I've got a home applet.16:43
Khertanwhere do you leave your ruby script ?16:44
alteregoKhertan, it's in the home directory.16:44
Takspeaking of which, would anybody like to test the rgvkb package?16:44
ttmrichterBetween having Ruby on the N800 and knowing that Erlang is portable to it (it has been done, but not packaged), I'm really downright ecstatic!16:44
Khertani ve make a .desktop ...16:44
Khertanin the home directory ???16:44
alteregoKhertan, yes. The desktop file has to be in /usr/share/applications16:44
alteregoOr something.16:44
Khertanit s not the home :)16:44
alteregoNo, the script is in my home directory.16:45
Khertanyes i know where to place the .desktop16:45
alteregoAnd the .desktop file is in /usr/share/applications/hildondesktop blah16:45
alteregoOkay16:45
Khertanbut when u don't give full path to the ruby script16:45
Khertanwhere does it the default path N16:45
Khertan?16:45
alteregoI'd have to check, I can't remember. /usr/bin probably.16:45
Khertan:)16:46
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dpb_alterego: you did that ruby port?16:46
alteregodpb_, indeed.16:46
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dpb_there's a typo on the webpage :)16:46
alteregodpb_, send a patch :P16:46
alterego:D16:46
dpb_powerfull should be powerful16:46
alteregoWhere's the typo?16:46
ttmrichteralterego, I am going to undergo a sex change operation complete with genetic therapy so I can bear your children.16:46
Spakman_hello. How can I detect a press of the back button? Does it map to one of the function keys?16:46
alteregoYeah .. Typo ;)16:46
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alteregottmrichter, that's not required. Just buy me a beer if we ever meet ;)16:47
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mgedminif you're talking about the circular-arrow-hardware-button, then it's Esc16:47
ttmrichterOK, deal.16:47
ttmrichterComing to China anytime soon?16:47
alteregoHah, probably not.16:47
ttmrichterCanada?16:48
alteregoCanada, probably :)16:48
TakChinada?16:48
alteregoChinada? Is that a new bread of dog?16:48
ttmrichterOK, I have a buddy in Canada who'll take you out for a beer or three...hundred.16:48
Spakman_mgedmin: thanks a lot!16:48
ttmrichterHe'll be just as ecstatic.16:48
alteregoCool,16:48
alteregoI'd like to start a RUG for maemo ;)16:48
ttmrichterAnyway, bedtime.  Chat at you all later, and alterego thanks again.16:48
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alteregoNo problem16:49
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TakI thought Chinada was going to be the next maemo release16:49
alterego"You gotta get up, you gotta get up, you gotta get down." Jesus, what a confusing song.16:49
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alterego:)16:50
alteregoMaybe I should create some kind of ruby-maemo forum.16:50
alteregoOr actively start using my blog ^_^16:50
Takmaybe a subforum in ITT?16:51
alteregoNo, that'd be overkill.16:52
alteregoWhat I'd like is, an area for reporting bugs.16:52
Takah - a garage project, then ;-)16:52
alteregoAnd every now and then I'd like to ask people what they think about the bindings. Whether they think the API could be improved. That sort of thing.16:52
alteregoAnd start a debate. I think a blog would be pretty good for that kind of thing.16:53
alteregoI might just write my own little web app to do that.16:53
Khertanlol16:54
Takin django? ;-)16:54
alteregoI'm not really being very good with this blog stuff.16:54
alteregoMaybe when I get the N810 I'll be more likely to write blog posts. But I've not wrote a single one ..16:54
alteregoKhertan, something that the ruby hildon desktop plugin loader does that the python one doesn't. I added error reporting. If it fails to load a plugin it tells you why ;)16:56
Khertanarf ...16:56
* alterego stretches16:56
Khertani was looking in the code to see where error was reported16:57
alteregoIt's not.16:57
Spakman_alterego: can we write desktop plugins with the ruby bindings?16:57
Khertanbut ... i ve found anything yet16:57
Khertanand now i understand why16:57
alteregoSpakman_, yes! :) That's what we're talking about ;)16:57
Spakman_is that with version 0.4?16:57
Khertanand i hope we ll can soon in python :)16:57
alteregoI've yet to officially announce 0.4.0 but I should probably do that.16:57
alteregoSpakman_, yeah. It hasn't got plugin error reporting yet. If you wait an hour I'll have 0.4.1 packaged and uploaded.16:58
Spakman_ah, then I will :)16:58
alteregoMakes things a lot easier.16:58
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alteregoThere's also a fix for libconic.16:58
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Khertan_VMg_propagate_error17:00
Khertan_VMis it a gtk api ?17:01
Spakman_alterego: just saw the desktop plugin example - nice one!17:01
Taklooks like glib17:01
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alteregoKhertan, that's glib17:09
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alteregoThat'll show up in SDK. Not on target17:09
TakStay on target.17:09
alterego:)17:10
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rothielHello World :)17:11
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Khertantak ... yes ...17:14
Khertansniffff ... this doesn't work ... snifff17:15
alteregoMy loader code is probably the neatest code I've done in C for ruby-maemo.17:15
alteregoOnly _one_ swear word!17:15
TakMost impressive.17:15
Khertan_VMi ll try on the sdk17:15
alteregoKhertan, hint, if it's a python exception being raised by your code. It wont show. The propagate errors were only for loading the file and some other "init" like code. At least that's what I believe.17:16
alteregoI don't think the loader handles python exceptions at all.17:16
alteregoIt'll either crash the desktop or it'll do nothing.17:16
Khertan_VMi don t even know if the code is loaded ...17:17
alterego:/17:17
Khertan_VMit s do nothing and the applet is unselected in the selection dialog17:18
alteregoBest to do it all in the SDK17:18
alteregoUnfortunately :/17:18
alteregoYeah, that sounds like it might be with your cod.17:18
alterego~code17:18
infobotwell, code is relatively stable right now, and I think we're going to see lots of changes17:18
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Khertan_VMalterego: i get no error when i launch the python script directly with python17:18
Khertan_VMand it s no mine, but the example from the binding17:19
alteregoAh17:19
alteregoHmm, that's not good is it.17:19
alteregoTry it in the SDK.17:19
alteregoLook for loader errors.17:19
alteregoWhen you start the desktop with af-sb-init.sh there may be an error when it scans the loader directory.17:20
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alteregoYou can force the appearance of this error by touch'ing the loader.so file.17:20
alteregoWell, that forces the loading of the loader.17:20
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Andy80hi all17:21
Khertan_VMwhere is the /usr in the scratchbox tree ?17:21
Khertan_VMfound17:21
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jumpulatarget's /usr?17:26
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jumpulaor host-side /usr?17:26
Khertan_VMjumpula: i ve found ... the target user17:27
Khertan_VMin target folder :-)17:27
jumpulayeah, and symlink in / :)17:27
Khertan_VM/usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch'17:28
Khertan_VMqemu: Unsupported syscall: 26417:28
Khertan_VMqemu: Unsupported syscall: 31617:28
Khertan_VMthis stink17:28
Khertan_VMImportError: No module named homememory.py17:28
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zoranput it in the path then17:30
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Khertan_VMzoran: i ve put the path17:30
alteregoKhertan, use native. Don't code python in the armel SDK environment ;)17:30
Khertan_VMi ll try17:31
zoranalterego hates python, I think17:31
alteregoKhertan, when I say native. I mean the i386 target./17:31
Khertan_VMzoran: everyone know this :)17:32
alteregozoran, I don't hate python :P I pity those that use it ;)17:32
Khertan_VMalterego: i ve understood17:32
zoranalterego ruby on rails 2.0 is out17:32
alteregoCool.17:32
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alteregoI'll have to check out 2.0 ..17:32
zorancould be a big step further17:32
alteregoYeah, I've not used edge at all. I've been sticking to 1.217:33
zoranalmost as python 2.5  ;)17:33
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alteregoRails is just a web framework :P It's not Ruby.17:34
Khertan_VMarg ... loader not compiled for x8617:34
Khertan_VMneed to do it17:34
* alterego can't wait for ruby 2.0 ..17:34
zoranmv ruby-1.2 ruby-2.017:35
alteregomv ruby 1.9 ruby-2.0 ;)17:35
alteregomv ruby-{1.9,2.0} ;)17:35
zorancat ruby* | /dev/null -    :)17:36
Khertan_VMalterego can t build for x86 target ... python2.5 dependancy :(17:36
Khertan_VMand it s not available17:36
zoranwhat dep it wants?17:36
Khertan_VM python2.5 python2.5-dev python2.5-gtk2-dev17:37
zoranno debs?17:37
Khertan_VMarg ... my sourcelist17:37
Khertan_VMi ve change target :)17:37
zoranextras?17:37
zoranor debian server?17:37
Khertan_VMextras was missing17:39
zoranon slashdot I read that nokia thinks ogg is proprietary17:39
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Khertan_VMit is ... there is patent on it, isn t it ?17:40
zoranhm...17:40
Takheh, on slashdot I read that linux is a tool used by godless communists to subvert capitalism and Jesus17:41
Khertan_VMlol17:41
wumpusoh no, they have found out our plans :P17:41
zoranI've heard that senate should prohibite linux in states17:41
wumpusI was just about to subvert jesus17:41
Khertan_VMit s already the case in france17:41
zoransubversion or prohibition?17:42
Khertan_VMprohibition17:42
zoranreally?17:42
wumpushuh, do you have a source on that?17:42
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Khertan_VMnot really17:43
TakI don't believe that - a ton of Free Software comes out of france17:43
Khertan_VMbut there is a law17:43
wumpusI don't see how you can prohibit linux, you can prohibit it inside a company or inside the government itself of course17:43
wumpusbut that's really be paranoid the wrong way around17:43
Khertan_VMa recent law that focus on mp3 piracy ... b17:43
zoranin states it should forbid anything free and that does not has a price on it17:43
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Takspeaking of which, I see that the US govt got pwnd the other day via an /email/ exploit17:44
wumpuswell, let's put a $0.01 price tag on it then17:44
X-Fade_I thought is was related to forbidding to release software without a company being accountable for it..17:44
wumpusproblem fixed :P17:44
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zoranwumpus, why should we?17:44
wumpusso we can get rich from french people17:44
zoranah, coooooooooooool!17:45
wumpusthey have to buy it while others can download it for free17:45
wumpuswouldn't that be cool :D17:45
zoranyes!17:45
Khertan_VMX-Fade_: they want that each program get a certificate to know their authors17:45
Khertan_VMbut this certificate could only be obtains by company17:45
zoranKhertan_VM, it is ok17:45
wumpussome signed version management would do for open source17:46
zoranor in the headers17:46
zoranwith gpl sticked on it17:46
Takassign copyright to the FSF17:46
Khertan_VMit hasn t be approved yet ... but it should be in a near future17:46
wumpusin open source projects there really is accountability for who write which line17:46
wumpuswrote*17:46
Khertan_VMbut it wont be free :-17:46
wumpusyes, but I mean it's bullshit from a law enforcement position17:47
zoranwhat do you folks think about patenting one-two-3 click processes?17:47
Khertan_VMi can t explain exactly the details as i ven t a good enought english17:47
zoranor "get this by clicking and using brain"17:47
zoranwhat if I don't use mouse?17:48
wumpusbut if we'd have to be accountable for all the code we write we must include clauses such as 'don't use this in vehicles and nuclear reactors' :P17:48
zoran<ctrl> <tab> and <enter>17:48
zoranR.Stallman, help!17:49
Khertan_VMdpkg: error processing libgtk2.0-0 (--configure): subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 12717:49
Khertan_VMpfff it s a real pain to use this sdk ...17:49
wumpusanyway, until a country really manages to forbid open source this is all theory17:49
mgedminmhm... what was the error message before that?17:49
wumpushere in the netherlands the government itself uses open source in some cities17:50
Khertan_VM/scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory17:50
zoranwumpus, gvmnt with brain!17:50
mgedminno, that dpkg-preconfigure message is harmless17:51
mgedminand it's not invoked from the post-installation script17:51
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mgedminif there's no other output, it means the postinst script exited with nonzero but didn't print anything17:51
Takfree software is widely used in some cities in the us as well17:51
Taka notable example being my neighbor, largo, fl17:52
zoranand some ms is free software, if one does not pay for it  :)17:52
Takno, I mean Free Software17:52
TakFree as in Stallman ;-)17:52
zoran;)17:52
alteregoHah17:52
* alterego chuckles.17:52
alteregoHaven't they released pymaemo for i386?17:52
alteregoSeriously, though. If I hated python that much. I wouldn't be trying to be helpful to Khertan :)17:52
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Khertan_VMtheir is a release for pymameo ... but i ve problem with a dependancy of pymameo ...17:53
Khertan_VMthe package seems to be corrupted17:53
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zoranKhertan_VM, the real problem is making perl for vms17:55
zoranall about maemo is nothing compared to it17:55
Khertan_VMperl ?17:55
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zoranlittle gnome with "perl" shirt17:55
zoransomeone has python 2.5 on os2006?17:58
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* zoran gone to feed dragons18:00
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alteregoHmm, I should really make it display the line number ^_^18:15
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alteregoI think I'll make it dump the entire stack trace. Ala, Rails.18:20
alteregoBut in a pretty Gtk::Dialog :D18:20
GeneralAntillesVagalume needs a desktop applet.18:21
GeneralAntillesThen somebody needs to combine Rhapsody, Vagalume, fm and internet radio into 1 uber-applet.18:21
Takdoes vagalume currently play local music?  or just last.fm streams?18:21
GeneralAntilleslast.fm18:22
GeneralAntillesMedia player is for local. :)18:22
Takyeah, kind of sucks that they're segregated18:22
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GeneralAntillesNokia should provide a decent plugin interface for stuff like that for Media player.18:22
Takalso, is there a way to build a playlist from multiple artists/genres/whatever in the media player?18:22
Takyes.18:22
alteregoYeah, a plugin interface for the media player would be awesome.18:24
* alterego eats some cake.18:24
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lopzhola18:24
_berto_oh, I read vagalume18:27
_berto_only last.fm streams, sorry18:27
_berto_8-)18:27
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GeneralAntillesMaybe a plugin for Canola2.18:27
Tak_berto_: is there any plan to change that?18:28
_berto_GeneralAntilles: I'm working on a statusbar icon18:28
GeneralAntillesFor Vagalume?18:28
_berto_GeneralAntilles: yes18:28
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GeneralAntillesMy statusbar is full.18:28
_berto_GeneralAntilles: optional of course ;-)18:28
GeneralAntillesI'd rather have a desktop applet.18:28
_berto_Tak: well, it's intended to be a last.fm player :)18:29
_berto_GeneralAntilles: I'd like to add that too18:29
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_berto_Tak: there are several media players out there, I don't think it makes sense to convert vagalume into another media player18:33
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GeneralAntillesHa, I agree 100%, _berto_.18:34
* Tak shrugs18:34
_berto_for me it's more interesting to add all features specific to last.fm18:34
_berto_tags, recommendations, events, ... those things18:34
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alteregoAnd for those that don't use last.fm ..18:34
alterego:)18:34
_berto_http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/multimedia/18:35
_berto_:)18:35
alteregoNone of that stuff interests me.18:35
_berto_I see some 5 media players there18:35
alteregoThe builtin media player is fine for me.18:35
Takis there a way to build a playlist from multiple artists/genres/whatever in the media player?18:35
derfkulve: Would you like a vector version of the Ogg fish logo so that your blown-up image doesn't look so god-awful?18:36
kulvederf: :)18:36
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dragornand if not, try feeding it to http://vectormagic.stanford.edu/18:36
kulvederf: I just had to put something there, and couldn't find anything proper..18:36
kulvederf: so, why not :)18:37
derfhttp://people.xiph.org/~tterribe/xifish.pdf18:37
derfGenerated from http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/theora/doc/spec/xifish.fig18:38
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alteregoPDF ?18:39
felipecSVG would be better wouldn't it?18:40
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alterego:)]18:41
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timelE61ihi bergie18:43
bergiehi18:43
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kulveis somewhere a wiki page or something about the images in the maemo.org/download?18:47
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kulveI tried uploading svg for the download image, but it just says "You can only upload images here. This file will not be saved."18:59
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alteregoHeh19:00
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Khertantry with a png :)19:01
kulvebrowsers seems to show svgs quite nicely nowadays, a bit slow though..19:01
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fysawould be nice to have more media players with mplayer (instead of built-in) support.19:04
fysatranscoding is for suckers, and almost all standard-def content I've played works beautifully through mplayer.19:04
Khertankulve > browsers but many web application don't want anything than gif,png,jpeg19:06
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kulvesure19:07
kulvebut svg might become a nice addition to those19:07
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Khertansure19:08
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kulvederf: I tried to change the logo, but I don't see it updating on the page..19:15
kulvehmm.. And actually I've uploaded an empty png..19:16
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Khertanis there a way to get g_warning message on the device ?19:19
Khertanor a simple instruction in one line to write to a log in c :)19:20
Takwouldn't you have to build a glib with those messages turned on?19:20
Khertanhum ... i think it ll be simple to build the loader with a write to a file in /var/log :)19:21
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sp3000Khertan, install syslogd19:22
sp3000-> done19:22
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Khertansyslogd ?19:23
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Khertanit s already available ?19:23
Khertanin a repos ?19:23
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kulveI installed it from the repository.maemo.org (not extras)19:24
Khertannothing was found for "syslogd" in OS 200819:25
sp3000sysklodg even19:25
sp3000or sysklogd if you prefer the correct spelling19:25
Khertanok :)19:25
Khertani ll try :)19:26
* sp3000 slaps gronmayer.com/it/ for using method=post for a search19:26
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GeneralAntillesSomebody should file a bug.19:26
kulveKhertan: you should remove them from the startup to scripts as they log *a lot* (update-rc.d -f remove sysklogd, and same for klogd, iirc)19:26
gw280when is MAEMO_CHANGES defined?19:27
Sho_hm - "Nokia wants W3C to remove Ogg from upcoming HTML5 standard"19:28
wumpuswtf19:29
wumpuswhat's wrong with ogg?19:29
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|Rwumpus : nothing, they're lost19:29
wumpushuh.. but what do they have against it?19:30
dpb_wumpus: it's "proprietary"19:30
|Rthey call it proprietary and blame it for not having DRM measures19:30
wumpuswell,, isn't mp3 too?19:30
wumpusit's owned by this german institute19:30
|Rwell, the fact is, ogg isn't19:30
GeneralAntillesWell, some lawyer at Nokia, anyway.19:30
wumpuswell, mp3 has no DRM measures built in as well, that's always an outer layer19:31
wumpusweird19:31
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kulvederf: now the image looks better on the actual dl page, but the thumbnail is still only a half of the logo. Any ideas how to fix that?19:36
kulvederf: btw. Did you already try to watch theora videos with the Media Player? ;)19:36
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derfkulve: I haven't actually installed OS 2008 yet.19:38
kulveoh, nm then :)19:38
derfHave you?19:38
kulvesure19:38
kulve(not a the smartest move maybe, but I wanted to update my packages for it..)19:38
kulve-a19:39
derfMaybe you just have a caching problem? The image looks fine here.19:39
kulveyeah, it's now ok here too. It seem to just take while before the page is actually updated19:39
kulvehttp://maemo.org/downloads/OS200819:39
Khertansystem-log-deamon not installed ... where i can find it ?19:39
kulvethere the thumbnails are only half of the logo..19:39
derf"Fresh"19:40
kulveKhertan: what is system-log-daemon..?19:40
derfI like it.19:40
kulvefresh fish19:40
Khertanon dependancy of sysklogd19:40
kulveKhertan: weird, I didn't need to install it..19:40
derfkulve: It seems to assume the 5:3 aspect ratio.19:40
X-Fade_kulve: Probably squid cache or something like that. Will fix itself probably..19:40
kulveX-Fade_: so it seems19:40
derfProbably easiest just to make an 800x480 image with extra padding on the sides.19:41
kulveor crop a bit from the top and the bottom..?19:42
Khertango home ... by19:42
Khertanbye19:42
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kulvederf: I'll crop it, but it probably looks too bad, and then I'll add the extra padding (which will make the logo smaller)19:44
derfOddly, that doesn't really bother me much. It was the horrible up-scaling artifacts that bugged me.19:45
kulvederf: now there's cropped image..19:47
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derfAnd down goes maemo.org.19:50
kulvedid I DoS it..19:50
alteregokulve, if you tried to visit more than one page in the past hour. Then yes. You DoS'd it.19:50
alteregoDamn you ..19:50
derfYes. You _click_ _too_ _fast_.19:50
derfOh, there it goes.19:51
derfFinally.19:51
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alteregoHah, I just realised, my maemo version number is inline with chinook now.19:53
alteregoMaybe I should keep it this way ^_^19:53
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proctoso... anyone have a jaiku invite they can spareL20:02
procto?20:02
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alteregoprocto, do you really think this is the place to ask that kind of question?20:12
Andy80I've a little idea for Maemo..... do you know Nokia Sports Tracker? It would be usefull to have a client for Maemo too :) They could publish a sort of API, so we could write a client for it, or they could write it for us... as they wish :P what do you tink about?20:13
alteregoI don't think they do the sports I'm really interested in ;)20:13
Andy80uhm?20:14
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* b0unc3 wizard-mounter 1.1 is out! https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=44420:18
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GeneralAntillesalterego, it worked for me. ;)20:21
lopzre20:22
alteregoTime to forget about bug reports and just presume everything is broken until you get an anti-bug report.20:22
sp3000.oO( ...but who wants to mount a wizard? )20:23
sp3000I'll get me coat20:23
alteregoIt's probably for the maemo girls ..20:24
acydlordlol20:24
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alteregoI should stop eating ketchup. I've never likd it that much.20:26
TakI put on my robe and wizard hat.20:26
alteregoAnd it has no value at all.20:26
Atariilol20:26
GeneralAntillesAnti-oxydants!20:26
glass_why you keep eating it then20:26
glass_if you don't like the taste20:26
BeBrawhow to include extra files (like glade ui definition) in .deb? http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/pymaemo_tutorial/python_maemo_howto.html doesn't cover that20:26
alteregoFish and chips are boring without _something_20:26
alteregoAnd I _hate_ salt and vinegar.20:27
Atariihow strange20:27
Atariiare you english?20:27
GeneralAntillesHa20:27
alteregoHeh20:27
glass_how about mayo then?20:27
GeneralAntillesTartar sauce?20:27
glass_or some kebab sauce or whatever20:27
GeneralAntillesYeah, and mayo for the chips.20:27
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alteregoI think I'll keep a stock of curry paste or something for the times I make fish and chips20:27
alteregoEesch .. I don't like Mayo either (or salad dressing)20:28
TakBeBraw: one way is to add extra installation lines in the install step of debian/rules20:28
alteregoThe later being quite bad for you.20:28
Atariibbq sauce ftw20:28
GeneralAntillesHow can you not like mayo?20:28
BeBrawTak: k. i will take a look at that. thanks20:28
GeneralAntillesand remember Miracle Whip != mayonnaise. :P20:28
alteregobbq sauce is too strong, like ketchup.20:28
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Takfor my C programs, I wrote a script that embeds the contents of a .glade file as a string constant in a header20:29
GeneralAntillesHonestly, alterego, I think you don't want to be happy. :P20:29
Atariilol trudat @ GeneralAntilles about Miracle Whip20:29
Atariiits so bad20:29
alteregoMAybe, or maybe I do and I'm just too fussy :P20:29
alteregoI think curry sauce sounds like a great idea ..20:30
Tuco1GeneralAntilles, that disprove your theory of no girls on interenet20:30
Tuco1*internet20:30
alterego*fishnetz20:30
GeneralAntillesHa20:30
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Atariiit's the best feeling when you get home after a weekend away, and get to eat all the chocolates in the advent calendar you've missed!20:31
alteregoI'm not really a fan of chocolate ..20:31
GeneralAntillesHa20:31
GeneralAntillesChocolate is the best.20:31
K`zan:-)20:31
alteregoToo much sugar.20:32
* K`zan has two oreos for brekky :)20:32
alteregoMakes me feel kind of ill.20:32
GeneralAntillesDark chocolate?20:32
alteregoDark choc I can handle20:32
K`zanDunked in coffee :)20:32
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alteregoDark chocolate mints are nice ..20:33
GeneralAntillesAndes20:33
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alteregoHeh, the Maemo IRC channel is more like a Pub than a topical discussion area ^_^20:34
|Rcheers to that! :D20:35
alteregoNo religion, No politics ^_^20:35
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|RNo politics? :P20:35
alteregoI don't really think anyonie likes talking about those things anyway.20:36
proctoalterego: well, there's a relatively high proportion of maemo jaiku users, and it's not like I just popped in to leech invites :>20:36
|Ryeah, like we never see people screaming ron paul ;)20:36
alteregoWho's that?20:36
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* GeneralAntilles runs in a circle screaming "Ron Paul".20:36
|Rhaha20:36
* alterego runs in a circle shouting "My Bush! My Bush! My Bush is on Fire!"20:37
alteregoThat was some good eats.20:37
GeneralAntillesalterego saw god!20:37
|RWe don't need no water let the .... burn! :P20:37
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alteregoA DIY mini-pizza, a piece of fish, and some baked chips.20:37
alteregoHmm .. I wonder if I can come up with some port forwarding magick that'd stop my apps disconnecting when switching between networks.20:38
Atariijust run quicker and they might not :p20:39
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alteregoHeh, not likely.20:39
alteregoIP and route will still more than likely be different ;)20:40
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Atariiclearly you're not running fast enough then ;)20:41
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alteregoI don't even have to move when switcing from wireless to GPRS :P20:41
elbport forwarding won't do that20:42
elbyou'd have to use a tunnel of some sort20:42
dragornalterego: VPN a static virtual IP to a concentrator somewhere20:42
elband I'm not aware of any software which can handle such a thing20:42
alteregoYes, with SSL ..20:42
vegaihttp://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071210-nokia-wants-w3c-to-remove-out-ogg-from-upcoming-html5-standard.html20:42
dragornalterego: and use the virtual IP for your routed traffic out20:42
vegaiuhh, wtf?20:42
alterego~SSH ..20:42
GeneralAntillesYes, vegai, it's been brought up several time.s20:42
alteregohtml5 is a joke.20:42
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dragornalterego: then as long as your vpn stuff handles it and you do it within the tcp timeout, it'll be persistent across networks.  SSH+tap interface might do it, openvpn should too20:43
alteregodragorn, okay, thanks for the pointers.20:44
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Atariiyou could also use a BNC if it's just IRC that you want to stay on20:45
dragornalterego: you might be able to kluge up something simpler with nc and tun/tap, for really ugly.  There (was?) a standard for Mobile IP which did essentially the same thing (consistent private IPs mapped to a concentrator neutral of the carrier), there might be some sw there20:45
* alterego shudders.20:45
alteregoBNC is for the newbs.20:45
alteregoscreen ftw! :)20:45
* Tak recommend dircproxy20:45
alteregoAnd no, this isn't IRC.20:45
alteregoNot specifically.20:46
alteregoThis is SSH connections and Pidgin.20:46
acydlordpidgin usually stays life for me between net switches20:46
alteregoI might just do a web interface to libpidgin.20:46
acydlordunless i wander in to a black spot20:46
elbYAM!20:49
alteregoLike downtown LA?20:49
alterego(wonders if that was too racist)20:49
Atariiyam?20:49
elbYet Another Meebo20:50
alteregoThe darkside of the moon?20:50
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elbwriting a libpurple web client is this generation's irc client20:50
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|Ranyone remember where i can get a list of the participating countries for the developer coupon/rebate program?20:52
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|R(US, UK, France, .... ?)20:53
alterego"rebate program"?20:53
|Rdiscount or whatever :P20:53
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|Rthe 99E thingie :)20:53
alteregoNo,20:53
|R_the_ code! :P20:53
alteregoWhat country are you in?20:53
|RFrance... but apparently this work all over europe20:54
alteregoInteresting, the New N82 directional pad looks identical to that of the N810's ..20:54
|Ri just don't know which other european countries are in20:54
alteregoYes, the UK is in it.20:54
alteregoI'd say any country that has a nokia shop.20:54
alteregoAnd if not, they might be able to order from europe.nokia20:54
|Rthese 3 are in, i just don't remember the list i had to choose from :)20:54
|Ras i'm not in france, and want a qwerty... (long story)20:55
alteregoHeh, order it from the UK then.20:55
alteregoThough, I would have expected the france model to be qwerty.20:55
|Rnah, azerty :/20:56
alteregoOh, shame.20:56
alteregoAnd you're in France?20:56
|Rbut best thing would be to sell my coupon and get a north american version... but that's going to be hard (nobody trust code vs money exchange over the net ...)20:56
|Rnon, Canada20:56
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|Rs/non/no20:56
|Rbut i have family there20:56
alteregoThere isn't a Canadian nokia online shop?20:56
Atariin800 £134.99 delivered from play.com for today (out of stock tho)20:56
alteregoOh, right.20:56
glauberviniciushas anyone knows examples of business applications on top of maemo?20:57
|RI'm trying to get a friend of the family in the UK to get it... 2nd best case after a N-A version...20:57
|Ralterego : yes there is a canadian shop, but not all shop are in the discount program20:57
|Rthat's why i need that list which i forgot to see what my options are :/20:57
acydlorddoes nokiausa ship to canada?20:57
alterego"nokia online"20:57
|Racydlord : nop20:58
|Racydlord : and anyway right now, my coupon is locked to europe20:58
|Ri asked the nokia guy responsible for the coupon20:58
acydlord15th is when the usa codes work right?20:58
FritzyHow do you apply for a coupon?  Where's the link to that info?20:58
|Rcouldn't change it (i would have had a contact in the states now but as i didn't know when i had to choose)20:58
|RFritzy : it's over20:58
|Rit was 1-2 months ago20:58
Fritzyah20:59
|RSo, best thing would be, sell the coupon for 280 Euro, get a canadian version.... 2nd best will be get a UK version with channel 10-13 only at 10mW... 3rd will be getting stuck with the azerty version :P20:59
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acydlordi'm probably not gonna be able to pick up my n810 for about a month as i'm flat broke :(21:00
|R:(21:00
FritzyI'd love an 810, but I don't need GPS, and the price difference is astounding.21:00
Takmore available storage with n800 as well21:01
|Ryeah, it's really just a nicely integrated n800 + gps + 1/2 kbd :)21:01
FritzyYeah, but no keyboard!21:01
|R- SD cards...21:01
GeneralAntillesIt's got a perfectly functional thumbboard.21:01
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FritzyTheir site mentioned that the screen was better in sunlight on the 810 as well.21:02
|Rtransreflective screen (whatever that is ;)21:02
acydlordyeah, the n810 has a transreflective layer21:02
FritzyI'd /like/ the GPS for hackery like Jabber extended presence, but really, for $300 more, it just doesn't seem worth it.21:03
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alteregoYou can buy it in Canada |R21:03
|Ralterego : i know, i can buy it full price...21:03
|Rbut i have a 99E coupon21:03
alterego|R, check out the nseries site ..21:04
alterego|R, that code probably wont be usable until friday.21:04
|Rthe 15 i heard... but it's not supposed to work in canada21:04
|Rit wasn't on the list and it's not supposed to be added21:04
alteregoOh well.21:05
pupnik_Tak: rgvkb package?21:05
alteregoForget what I said about the nseries site too. It's not in the product listings O_O21:05
|Rhehe :)21:05
acydlordi know 2 people that picked up the n810 from tiger direct while that had that limited run21:05
Takeh?21:06
alteregoHeh, a Nokia "flagship" store is coming to London.21:06
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pupnik_14:43 < Tak> speaking of which, would anybody like to test the rgvkb package21:07
Takah21:07
alteregorubygame VKB.21:07
Takyes, would you like to?21:07
pupnik_bleh no21:07
pupnik_sorry21:08
alteregoHeh21:08
* alterego forces Ruby down pupnik_ 's throat.21:08
alteregoYou will take it!21:08
Takaww, isn't the thought of a sdl-based vkb tempting?21:08
alteregoTak, I can't even persuade people with hildon desktop plugins :)21:09
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Taksure, but hildon desktop plugins already exist in c ;-)21:09
Fritzysdl virtual keyboard?  sounds neat.  Might be fun to do in pygame.21:09
Takno, it mightn't21:10
Fritzyhaha21:10
Fritzywhyn't not'nt?21:10
alteregoPython is boring. Everyone uses Python.21:10
GeneralAntillesnotn't :P21:10
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FritzySo, let me get this straight, you use Ruby because Python is too popular?21:11
alteregoSure, isn't that why anyone learns a programming language?21:12
alteregoAs soon as a language gets popular it gets crap. Just look at C++ and Java ..21:12
acydlordvisual basic =x21:13
mgedminsome languages get crap before they get popular :)21:13
Takindeed21:13
* mgedmin feeds Python a chicken21:13
alteregoHeehee21:14
alteregoIt's probably related to the popular girls in high school being stupid too.21:14
* czr peeks21:17
czrI guess the training stuff wasn't published today?21:17
alteregoI thought that happened last week?21:17
alterego(Could have sworn I saw it online)21:18
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czrhmm. you did?21:18
alteregoMaybe ..21:18
* alterego checks21:18
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alteregoThat's interesting ..21:21
alteregoThe "training" section is blocked. But I could have sworn I navigated there a few days ago.21:21
alteregoSomeone posted a link here that I followed.21:21
alteregoI could be mistaken though :)21:21
alteregoI get distracted easily.21:21
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glauberviniciusi am finding for business applications that have been developed on top of maemo...21:23
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alteregoglaubervinicius, what kind of business apps. Have you checked the maemo application catalog. Most apps can be found there.21:24
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glauberviniciusyes... i have checked the catalog... but most of the applications are related to office (doc, spreadsheets, presentations, dict, etc.)..21:25
glauberviniciusi am finding for applications that have been used for enterprises in order to automate their business processes21:25
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alteregoglaubervinicius, if you've not found anything they don't exist.21:26
GeneralAntillesIt's a little specialized for such a small platform.21:27
alteregoIt helps if you're looking for something specific.21:27
czralterego, hmm. it should appear somewhere there under the training link when it's ready21:27
czrI guess21:27
czrbut I'm beyond caring. my flight leaves in some hours :-)21:28
alterego:)21:28
alteregoYeah, have a few beers and relax :)21:28
alteregoHow did you get on with pygtk?21:28
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czrit was fun actually21:28
czrI took some examples and rewrote them into more pythonic form21:29
alteregoYeah, it's nice doing Gtk in high level languages.21:29
|Ranyone from europe here came to north america and had trouble connecting to APs on channel 10-11 ? :P21:29
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alterego|R, no, only 12 + 13 :P21:29
|R;)21:29
* czr always uses channel 16, it's always available21:30
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alteregoHah21:30
|Rczr but stll, conflicts with 14 from japan :P21:30
czrthe japanese are wrong and can be ignored!21:30
* czr shakes fist21:30
|Rhehe21:31
alteregoHah21:31
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alteregoczr, been working on my hildon desktop plugin code. I've got it to display an error dialog when it breaks. As opposed to crashing the entire desktop and causing it to restart. Or the other choice, doing absolutely nothing :)21:39
alteregoBoth of which are natively supported by the Python hildon desktop loader. ^_^21:39
alteregoI just decided it was time I stopped walking in Python's shadow and came out into the open ;)21:40
czror maybe it's the SDK ;-)21:40
alteregoSDK, device .. Whatever :P21:40
* czr opens the window for alterego to go out into the open through21:40
alteregoHah21:40
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czrsee the world :-)21:40
* alterego tries to remember what floor we're on.21:40
alteregoI think maemo is in the basement.21:41
czrit an unimportant variable21:41
czrwrong. maemo is where it belongs21:41
czrbasement even :-)21:41
alteregoHah21:41
alteregoI'm working on a more advanced version now. It'll display a full stack trace.21:41
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czrsince universe started?21:44
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alteregoAs far as the Ruby interpreter is concerned .. Sure .. :)21:45
czrit isn't "full stack trace" then.21:45
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alteregoI'll leave that feature for the anal python devs.21:46
alteregoIt's glorious writing crap code that _doesn't_ break the system and tells you why it's not working :)21:47
alteregoThe plugin developer doesn't even have to worry about it ^_^21:47
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khertanalterego: https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=229&aid=1736&group_id=4021:49
alteregoHeh21:50
alteregoThat's such bs.21:50
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alteregoThat plugin was developed as an _EXAMPLE_ by rocha.21:50
alteregoWith that attitude you'll never get hildon-desktop support in pymaemo ..21:50
khertanclear21:50
alteregoYou should pick up ruby :P21:51
khertanalterego: lol21:51
alteregoI'm sorry, I know you must be gettin' pretty frustrated by now. I would be ..21:51
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khertani'm ...21:52
khertani ve just answered21:52
khertanas you said ..21:52
alteregoHeh21:52
alteregoI wrestled with the ruby hildon-desktop loader for about a week.21:52
kuzewhey all, has anyone found a fix for the soft poweroff option within the new release (OS 2008)?21:53
alteregoProbably spent 24 hours in total on that one 220 line file.21:53
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alteregoI ended up rewriting it 2 times. The 3rd version just started working miraculously ^_^21:53
khertanspend 24h to compile already existing binding21:53
alteregoOh my21:53
VulcanisDoes anyone know when the official os2008 will be released?21:54
khertanand still doesn't work21:54
czrin 2008?21:54
khertani think i should rewrite it myself ...21:54
czror in the year 2000?21:54
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alteregoI'd help you but .. I don't have python installed in my SDK and I'd personally prefer to keep it that way. Nothing against Python, it's just not my forte anymore.21:54
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alteregokhertan, have you found _any_ error messages when you start af-sb-init or attempt to load the plugin?21:56
alteregoIf the loader is broken you should get an "unknown plugin type: python"21:56
khertanonly cannot load "homememory" module21:56
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alteregohome memory module ..21:56
khertanit s my module21:57
alteregoThat's very strange. And this is the _basic_ example python plugin?21:57
khertanyes21:57
khertana gtk.Button()21:57
khertanand that all21:57
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alteregoHrm .. Never seen that before.21:57
alteregoI could be wrong. But I'm sure that's python21:58
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alteregoIn fact, that's obviously pymaemo ..21:58
khertani think there is a problem in the loader21:59
alteregoSo the problem there is in the dependencies. Either the plugin loader has a module it requires that isn't in your load path. Or the example plugin does.21:59
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* alterego takes a break and looks at the python loader code for khertan.22:00
khertanthanks22:00
alteregoI probably know this system better than rocha by now ;)22:00
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alteregoWell, I see where the error is being generated./22:02
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khertanalterego: great22:04
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khertanarg my vmware network doesn't work anymore22:09
czryou upgraded it into noware network22:09
czryour license for packet bits has run out of bits22:09
khertanit s just the wmware player ... on linux22:10
pupnik_"Just for the record. I asked Nokia/Maemo team and they told me the day we will finally be able to use our codes is expected to be the 15 of december." - epertinez on ITT22:13
alteregokhertan, is that the only error you get?22:13
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alteregoSaturday? That's strange ..22:13
pupnik_Mon Dec 10 20:13:10 UTC 200722:14
alteregoMaybe they're counting for time zones.22:14
alteregoI presumed it'd all be done on the 14th (friday)22:14
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alteregoThis loader code isn't pretty ..22:14
alteregoHe first tests that the module he wants to load has not been loaded if (pModule == NULL)22:15
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alteregoThen after that, he seems to test if it's not NULL.22:15
alteregoThen there's an else clause that spurts that error message.22:15
alteregoOh, actually that kind of makes sense :/22:18
alteregokhertan, have you tried putting your module in pythons standard library path?22:18
khertang_path_get_basename (module_file)22:19
khertanso we can't provide module path22:19
khertanit should be in the standart library path ...22:19
alteregoExactly.22:19
alteregoThat's f*ck'd up really.22:19
khertanif i understand it should be : /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/22:19
khertani ve tryed this22:19
alteregoNo22:19
khertanno ?22:19
alteregoNot in there.22:19
alteregoIn one of pythons standard search directories.22:20
khertanwhere to ?22:20
alteregoLike /usr/lib/python/*/ ..22:20
alteregoProbably the sitedir would be best.22:20
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khertani m trying this22:22
alteregoI think there's a bug in his loader. It's completely ignoring file location in the keyfile (.desktop file).22:23
alteregoHe seems to rely on the file being in pythons load path.22:24
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desertcI am interested in using Ekiga on my N800...22:25
Robot101did you try the built in SIP?22:25
khertanit s now in the package-site ...22:27
khertanin ipython i can import it directly with : import homememory22:27
khertanbut still don't work22:27
alteregoOkay22:27
alteregoHave you restarted the desktop?22:27
alteregoaf-sb-init.sh restart?22:27
alteregoYou're still under X86 target right? Because don't expect _anything_ to work in the armel target ..22:28
khertani'm on the device22:28
khertanas i m now at home22:28
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khertanand that network doesn t seem to work in my maemo vmware image22:29
khertan(sysklogd installed :) )22:29
alteregoHeh22:31
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* czr plays with his new latex toys22:34
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alteregoKinky22:34
Sho_czr: let me guess: http://phonefingers.com/22:34
Sho_the finger condome for use with touch screens ;)22:34
alteregoYou know, I still haven't found a decent kit bag :(22:34
czrSho_, heh. that looks evil :-)22:35
czrand no.22:35
khertanczr > this latex one ? http://www.sex-toys.fr/vibromasseurs/vibromasseurs-factory/vibromasseur-dinky-digger-watermelon-11035.html22:35
khertan;)22:35
* Sho_ wants that discount code to work and rattles at the gates of the Nokia online store, torch and pitchfork in hand22:36
Sho_(wait, that would require three arms ..)22:36
czrheh khertan. no22:36
alteregoSho_, you must be pretty cold and lonely :P22:36
czryou people should definitely get out more often :-)22:36
Sho_alterego: Gadget withdrawal :)22:37
alteregoYou'd have to have owned one to have withdrawal :P22:37
alteregoI think you've got kiddie christmas indrawal.22:37
Sho_alterego: I did have an N80022:37
* Tak perks at mention of latex toys22:37
Sho_Not a Christian, so I suppose it would be live-long withdrawal, which might indeed have severe effects22:38
czrlive-long reminds me of a cigarette pack I once bought in HK22:39
czrbright yellow pack, with a very old man with a very long beard on it. "long life" was the brand.22:39
Sho_Very subtle ;)22:39
czrI thought it was somehow ironic. but .. in a country where the same company makes cigarettes, sweat clothes and ping pong tables, one can't go wrong.22:39
alteregoWow, they must be a huge monopoly. :)22:40
czrin china everything is so big and so small22:40
czralthough to understand that sentence you'd have to live in the country for a while.22:40
czrhttp://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/misc_china17_b.jpg22:41
alteregoobjects big, spaces small :P22:42
czrhttp://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/misc_china34_a.jpg22:42
czrprobably should stop pasting those links :-)22:42
czrthere are plenty more of those where those two came from :-)22:42
Takczr: Is it ok if I hate life, but still don't pick the flowers?22:42
Sho_"ASS WORLD" could be a pack-animal boutique, of course22:43
czrTak, you could always argue with the ground keepers22:43
czrmost likely it would be an old cranky woman22:43
khertanlol22:43
czrand you mostly lose arguments with those22:43
khertanThis is a simplified interface to PyImport_ImportModuleEx() below, leaving the globals and locals arguments set to NULL. When the name argument contains a dot (when it specifies a submodule of a package), the fromlist argument is set to the list ['*'] so that the return value is the named module rather than the top-level package containing it as would otherwise be the case. (Unfortunately, this has an additional side effect wh22:43
khertanen name in fact specifies a subpackage instead of a submodule: the submodules specified in the package's __all__ variable are  loaded.) Return a new reference to the imported module, or NULL with an exception set on failure. Before Python 2.4, the module may still be created in the failure case -- examine sys.modules to find out. Starting with Python 2.4, a failing import of a module no longer leaves the module in sys.modules.22:43
khertan Changed in version 2.4: failing imports remove incomplete module objects.22:43
Takperhaps if I enrage her enough, she will divorce me from my life22:43
khertanoups .... sorry22:43
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* czr removes the V-key from khertan's keyboard22:44
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czrTak, or probably feng shui you away22:44
khertanheh ... it s not a v-key :)22:44
* Sho_ suggests using a client that prevents such incidents22:44
khertanthird click :)22:44
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* czr removes randomly keys from khertan's keyboard until mistakes don't happen22:44
alteregokhertan, got it working yet?22:44
khertan(still not a key)22:44
khertanalterego: not at all :)22:45
Takshe will position me so as to be aesthetically pleasing and promote qi flow?22:45
alteregoMeh22:45
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alteregokhertan, well, it looks like it adds hildondesktoplibdir to the include path.22:45
czrTak, old ladies like this one: http://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/misc_china54_a.jpg22:45
alteregoSomething I presume is defined in the makoefile.22:45
czrTak, yes. or rather in your case position you so that you don't inhibit qi flow :-)22:45
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khertanalterego: hildondesktoplibdir22:46
alteregoYeah22:47
TakI inhibit qi flow regardless of position22:47
alteregoProbably /usr/lib/hildon-desktop :)22:47
czrmaybe the best picture to describe "everything is so large and small": http://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/shanghai_china20_c.jpg22:47
khertanhildonpluginloaderlib_LTLIBRARIES = libpythonpluginloader.la22:47
khertanalterego: and it doesn't work too in /usr/lib/hildon-desktop ...22:48
alteregokhertan, that was a guess ..22:48
alteregoIt's probably /usr/lib/hildon-home ..22:48
khertantryed too :)22:49
khertanother idea ?22:49
alteregoActually, you're doing status bar applets so that'd be /usr/lib/hildon-status-bar22:49
khertani'm not doing status bar applets :)22:50
khertannot yet :)22:50
alteregoOh, right.22:50
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alteregokhertan, well. I can't really do anymore. Short of installing python and having ago myself. But I don't know python anymore so I'm not really prepared to learn it again :P22:52
khertanafter copying it everywhere i get now : Could not initialize Python module22:52
alteregokhertan, I'll check.22:53
khertanso : PyImport_ImportModule (module_name); fails22:53
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alteregoAnd what came before that.22:53
alteregoYou should edit the loader to take absolute paths ..22:54
alteregoOr get rocha to release a flippin' deb ..22:55
alteregoWith proper working examples ;)22:55
czris pymaemo/python on 2008 in working order btw?22:56
czrI mean, what are the chances that the whole sdk will break when using it?22:56
czror the device(s)22:56
khertanpymaemo work great on os200822:57
alteregoczr, very little. Unless yo uwant to write hildon desktop plugins ;)22:57
khertanthere is a release for it22:57
czrhmm. maybe I should take it for a spin at some point22:57
khertan Or get rocha to release a flippin' deb > i think i should better do it myself if i want this work ...22:57
* czr nods22:57
alteregoHah22:58
czrI'm planning to do some simple way of constructing arch-indep debs at some point22:58
dragornhas anyone gotten the radio app working on the 810?  It doesn't error, but I don't find any radio stations, either23:00
alteregodragorn, works fine for me.23:00
Vulcanisdid you plug in headphones?23:00
dragornVulcanis: yup23:00
VulcanisHm.23:00
dragornalterego: k23:00
dragornI'll chalk it up to "user error" and look at it more seriously later then23:01
* alterego contemplates how to make a standard ruby error mechanism for maemo.23:01
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alteregoI should be able to create a ruby daemon at some point. But that's a bit of work ..23:01
desertcDoes the Ekiga port work well on N800?  I bought 20$ of minutes from a company which is not Skype or Gizmo, and I don't know a way to configure their SIP server in those two applications.23:01
Takplease, a turn-offable daemon23:02
khertanalterego: i'm looking at ruby :) it very similar to python23:02
khertans/it/it's23:03
alteregoYes, it's a lot like Python in many ways.23:03
Takexcept it doesn't fight you every step of the way23:03
* alterego chuckles.23:03
dragornalterego: have you looked at a ruby 1.9 port yet?23:03
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khertanexcept it doesn't fight you every step of the way ???23:05
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khertan# en Ruby23:06
khertanif 023:06
khertan  puts "0 est vrai/true"23:06
khertanelse23:06
khertan  puts "0 est faux/false"23:06
khertanend23:06
khertanouch ... this suck !23:06
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Tak?23:07
khertanthe result is "0 est vrai/true"23:09
hexakhertan, should it be if 0 .. puts is false ,, else puts is true?23:09
Takputs('0 is ' + 0 ? 'true' : 'false')23:09
khertan... with all language if 0 doesn t enter in the if condition23:09
khertanit ll be annoying and source of many error23:09
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alteregodragorn, yes. It's in the pipes.23:10
pupnik_http://youtube.com/watch?v=CII2crrTEe0  new one for me - streaming media server Linux MCE with nokia 770 client23:11
dragornalterego: Looking forwards to it.  I find 1.8 too slow to use for large apps (ie, msf) but I read some promising benchmarks on 1.923:11
alteregoWhat's wrong with 0 being evaluated to true?23:11
sp3000it's a bit unconventional23:12
alteregodragorn, msf?23:12
dragornalterego: metasploit23:12
alteregoOh, it's not "C".23:12
khertanalterego: it s unconventional and different from many language23:12
alteregoGive a shit ..23:12
alterego0 is a value.23:12
khertanand when you switch many times a day ... it should be source of many errors :)23:12
alteregoNil is not a value23:12
alteregoand false is false23:12
khertanswitch language23:12
fysathat is an important concept and I hope other languages take it in.23:12
alteregoDoesn't with me.23:12
alteregoI use C and Ruby all the time and I've never had that problem23:13
khertananyway... it s seem s a interesting language23:13
elbI've run into that before, I use primarily C and ruby23:13
elbif I've been doing a lot of C, sometimes I expect 0 to be false in ruby ... but, generally, ruby's model is consistent for ruby23:14
sp3000HOLY CRAP THAT'S A BIG FISH23:14
alteregoReally, when using C you should use 'FALSE' and 'NULL' you should rely on '0' as an immediate value in a test. ever ..23:14
* sp3000 clicks on the ogg-support "screenshot" instead of the title23:14
pupnik_oh duh, that's not streaming, it's a remote control for a PC media center23:14
alteregos/should/shouldn't/23:14
infobotalterego meant: Really, when using C you shouldn't use 'FALSE' and 'NULL' you should rely on '0' as an immediate value in a test. ever ..23:14
TakI'm in line with alterego23:14
khertanalterego: right23:14
alteregoShut up infotwat23:14
alteregoBloody substituted the wrong should ;)23:15
elbso, what is this, Monkey_ was booted and someone reinserted a different annoying infobot?23:15
alteregoinfobot has been around as long as Monkey I believe.23:15
khertanalterego: so maybe i should try ruby by pratice ... :) hildondesktop binding is available ? :)23:15
alteregokhertan, yup23:15
elboh, monkey just traditionally had the jump on annoying?23:15
alteregoI'll upload the latest packages. Hang on ;)23:15
khertanalterego: do u know good tuto on ruby for people having experiences with other language ?23:16
alteregokhertan, read "programming ruby" by the pragmatic programmers. An older version is available online so just google and you shall find.23:17
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* alterego burns off a debian install cd.23:19
alteregoGoing to the datacenter tomorrow to reinstall a server .. Manually.23:19
alteregoWhy my employer couldn't opt for KVM access I don't know O_O23:19
alteregoI have to drive, to London, at peak traffic times -_-23:20
* czr will visit alterego one of these days23:21
khertani must go on23:22
khertanbye23:22
khertanand thanks alterego for your help23:22
czrkhertan, s/i/my heart/.23:22
czrotherwise it doesn't quite work.23:22
khertan:)23:22
alteregoHah23:23
* czr hides couple of celine dion CDs in khertan's backpocket23:23
* alterego chuckles.23:23
* alterego phones khertan's girlfriend and secretly tells her to check his back pockets when he gets home.23:24
czrhmm. I wonder. if a flight is scheduled to depart at 0615, at what time is the check-in desk open? :-)23:24
czrsecretly tell: "I have a secret and I won't tell it to you, but if you guess enough times, you might get it right"?23:24
czrsimilar to ferenc's "working silently" :-)23:24
czrninja-like.23:25
alteregoI think I'm gonna have to run to the shops in a minute.23:25
alterego(have run out of tobacco)23:25
||cwpeople still use check-in desks?23:27
czr||cw, some people do23:27
||cwi guess if there's a problem....23:27
czrindeed23:27
czrand this flight is complicated. have two switches and going to the us23:27
suihkulokkihttp://www.marcofolio.net/images/stories/fun/imagedump/demotivational_posters/ninjas.jpg23:27
czrso I prefer to do it the old-school way. even with electronic check-in I'd still have to drop the bags and fill in the US-required travel information blah23:28
czrheh suihkulokki23:28
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||cwthey give you the form on the plane, you can fill it out before you get tot he gate23:28
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czrnot that travel visa23:28
czrbut the stuff that they record in the databases23:28
czrlike addresses where you're going to stay, etc, etc.23:29
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||cwyes, they give that to you on the plane23:29
suihkulokkiall the "security theater" checks make boarding such a pain in the ass these days23:29
czr||cw, they haven't so far. /me shrugs23:29
* czr agrees with suihkulokki 23:29
czrit was much nicer before all the crap. one could actually travel quite fast with planes23:29
||cwI went to france last year, they gave us the forms before landing23:30
||cwmaybe just AA does it23:30
czr||cw, maybe it works the other way around you see23:30
czrEU doesn't require all that info.23:30
czrUS does.23:30
czrcause otherwise terrorists would invade the country.23:30
||cwgetting into france was MUCH easier than getting back home though23:30
czrbut now the form will stop them.23:30
||cwIIRC, I had to fill out the same form 15 years ago23:31
czrthat was for visa.23:31
||cwbut I didn't have to take my shoes off23:31
czrheh23:31
||cwno, this was upon landing23:31
||cwdeclarations and such23:31
GeneralAntillesSecurity is such a joke.23:31
czrthat's customs then23:31
GeneralAntillesIf somebody wants to hijack a plane, they're going to hijack a plane.23:31
||cwthat's what you said, customs23:31
GeneralAntillesIf they want to keep that from happening, they're gonna have to make everybody fly naked.23:31
czr||cw, no. we also have to fill additional paper thingy23:31
czr||cw, homeland security wants to know who people are travelling to while in the US23:32
czrso one has to write addresses and all that23:32
czrGeneralAntilles, and require proper body searches too23:32
||cwGeneralAntilles: close, just scatter-gather x-ray machines so that you appear naked on the screen23:32
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lardmanevening all23:34
* czr bows to lardman23:34
czrevening master23:34
lardmanczr: what have I done today..... :)23:34
czrI haven't reached my bowing-quota this week. so I'm somewhat late :-)23:35
lardmanah, bow away then, and if you know anything about the innards of Tremor I'll return the bows23:35
* czr keeps the bowing process without any feedback paths23:35
czrsorry no..23:35
lardmanhttp://maemo.pastebin.com/m18322f0c for anyone who's interested, top one's the DSP, bottom one's my x86_64 machine, pretty much the same code23:36
* lardman has to work out why the two don't do the same thing23:37
czrseems that the call in sync_out behaves differently23:37
czrthe first ogg_sync_pageseek seems to work identically, although it doesn't print out everything out23:37
czr"cmp64_int(boundary,0)!=0" ?23:38
czrmaybe the input stream is not aligned enough for the code to work properly on it?23:38
czralthough I have hard time believing that should matter, but I don't know the innards of ogg or arm for that matter23:38
pupnikhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4422887272477313460&hl=en   wowwwww linux media center edition23:38
khertanczr hides couple of celine dion CDs in khertan's backpocket > hopefully she don't like his music !23:40
czrheh23:41
czrI'm sure she's used to constructive critisism :-)23:41
|Rhttp://cgi.ebay.com/Unlock-Nokia-810-Phone-Today-NO-TOOLS-REQUIRED_W0QQitemZ290186613720QQihZ019QQcategoryZ64355QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem23:41
|Rhahaha23:41
khertanmouarf23:42
Atariilol what the hell23:42
lardmanczr: I'll have to add some more output comments to the DSP code and see if I can work out where it diverges23:42
|Rhonest! no tools required! hahaha23:42
inz|R, they have the wrong picture there, nokia 810 looks like this: http://www.nokia.fi/NOKIA_FINLAND_50/Find_and_Compare/810/810_main.jpg23:43
|Rthat's a remote-phone? :P23:43
czrlardman, probably some code that "checks" for parameters when the routine is entered23:44
czrlardman, you could also try printing out the last 15 bits of pointers to check their alignments (if they differ), but I could completely wrong of course as well :-)23:44
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derflardman: It looks like it tries to parse the first page, finds that it has no bytes buffered, and on x86_64, reads in 1024 bytes, and on the DSP doesn't even try to read any bytes.23:46
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derfLook at, e.g., vorbisfile.c:12223:46
nwidgerhello23:46
nwidgerhas anyone here ordered an n810 from provantage.com?23:47
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dragornno, though I've ordered a few things in the past years from provantage and never gotten screwed23:50
nwidgerdragorn: well that's good i guess23:51
nwidgerthey keep pushing back the shipping date :\23:51
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dragornI got mine at the nokia store in nyc, and there were people from 2 or 3 other stores in the area in there talking to the nokia people about when they might get more in23:52
dragornthey're pretty hard to get23:52
czrmaybe they're too busy fixing all my reported bugs in the SDK?23:53
* czr hides & runs23:53
lardmanderf: ok, let me take a look at my reading code23:54
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nwidgerdragorn: that's disheartening :(23:55
inzczr, you hide and run quite often23:56
inzczr, is it some kind of assassin excercise for you?23:56
*** Spastic has joined #maemo23:56
SpasticHello23:56

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