IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2007-12-02

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Jaffa	soothsayer: Application Manager etc. IIRC	00:00
soothsayer	Jaffa: The EUSA is a non-free software license right?	00:02
hpg101	or more generally, how does one do drag and drop on a web page. lots of javascript-enhanced pages use it	00:02
Jaffa	soothsayer: I'd guess so, but App Manager is open source, so I'm not sre.	00:02
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zerojay	hpg101: They do?	00:02
soothsayer	Jaffa: Well, source available != free software. Anyway, thanks.	00:03
Jaffa	soothsayer: indeed, but http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org is proper FLOSS, AIUI	00:03
e-squizo	\|I expected getting Python to run to be simpler... "ImportError: No module named distutils.core"	00:05
e-squizo	indeed, I see no python2.5-dev package	00:05
lmoura	e-squizo, did you installed python-dev? :)	00:06
lmoura	e-squizo, where?	00:06
e-squizo	lmoura: dpkg -l python* shows a python2.3-dev	00:06
e-squizo	which is installed	00:06
e-squizo	but no python-dev nor python2.5-dev	00:07
melmoth	e-squizo: os2007 or os2008 ?	00:07
melmoth	i think i have it on both here	00:07
e-squizo	melmoth: OS2007, scracthbox	00:07
e-squizo	deb http://repository.maemo.org/ bora free non-free	00:08
e-squizo	deb file:/home/fheinz/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_3.1 bora explicit	00:08
e-squizo	deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ bora free	00:08
sbz	melmoth: there is a way to upgrade to 2008 without flash firmware (it's so annoying me reinstall my apps & conf) ?	00:08
melmoth	it exist here...ython2.5-dev 2.5.1-1osso3 Header files and a static library for Python	00:08
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melmoth	sbz: i do not know, right now, i only have os2008 in scratchbox	00:08
zerojay	sbz: No.	00:09
e-squizo	melmoth: I semm to be missing something in my sources.list then!	00:09
melmoth	deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras bora free non-free	00:09
melmoth	e-squizo: strange, does it mean its in the "non-free" section ????	00:09
hpg101	zerojay: well, lots may be a bit high, but with ajax and javascript libraries supporting d+d, the future is for much more d+d	00:09
e-squizo	melmoth: lemme see	00:09
zerojay	I doubt it, honestly.	00:09
sbz	okay, it was a interesting to realize a upgrade without flash, i need to investigate more	00:10
zerojay	sbz: The next major revision of the firmware will allow it... Diablo.	00:10
lmoura	at least the files are there, http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/bora/free/p/python2.5/	00:11
hpg101	whatever... so no d+d in browser?	00:11
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e-squizo	melmoth: no: it's there... it just doesn't show in dpkg's list (which is even more strange)	00:13
melmoth	e-squizo: apt-get update ?	00:14
e-squizo	melmoth: ok, I DO ask stupid questions, but give me some credit, OK? :-)	00:17
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sp3000	hpg101: sounds like you're not using a beta (browser, or release) :)	00:23
sp3000	s/release/itos/	00:23
infobot	sp3000 meant: hpg101: sounds like you're not using a beta (browser, or itos) :)	00:23
sp3000	hpg101: there's a statusbar clock applet	00:23
sp3000	(the former re the dnd)	00:24
sbz	zerojay: ok	00:26
* sp3000 wonders /where/ the statusbar clock applet is		00:28
sp3000	(besides a garage project)	00:28
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pupnik	statusbar controller for mp3/ogg playback would be neat too	00:34
pupnik	but there's not much room for new icons	00:34
sp3000	heh, os2008 hildon-desktop doesn't much like the os2007 statusbarclock applet	00:35
p\|	-14 to os2008 release (non beta) ! ;)	00:36
zerojay	There isn't a non-beta available yet.	00:37
p\|	there is only a beta for now (N800)	00:37
p\|	but i've read that a no-beta will be released in mid jan....	00:38
zerojay	December.	00:38
p\|	*mistake	00:38
p\|	mean dic.	00:38
sp3000	yeah zerojay, you're a m...	00:38
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* sp3000 giggles		00:39
zerojay	sp3000: I'm a what? :)	00:39
sp3000	he said it not me!	00:39
zerojay	pfffffft	00:39
sp3000	:P	00:39
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cbx33	hey all	00:42
l7	hello	00:43
cbx33	where can I get ssh for os2008?	00:43
zerojay	In the extras repository, I'm pretty sure.	00:43
cbx33	hmm....	00:43
cbx33	how do i enable extras again....did it once like 6 months ago, can't remember now	00:43
l7	it's not at garage?	00:44
cbx33	can't find it	00:44
cbx33	not under os2008	00:44
zerojay	It's already on your tablet. Just open the application manager, go to your repository list and you'll see it's disabled. Edit it, uncheck the disabled box and there you go.	00:44
* sp3000 <3 the double negative ui		00:44
cbx33	thanks	00:45
cbx33	nn all	00:45
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pupnik	You ain't got no double negative nowheres	00:45
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zerojay	You ain't never seen double negatives 'round these here parts, never.	00:46
zerojay	Can you use double negatives in programming?	00:46
zerojay	like.. if !!variable...?	00:46
l7	man isn't the n800 not the worst thin client?	00:46
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doc\|home	E_TOO_MANY_NEGATIVES	00:55
* doc\|home explodes		00:55
pupnik	heh	00:57
pupnik	doc\|home: are there any apps (medical?) you'd want to see on the N800?	00:57
doc\|home	man, I haven't seen a doctor in about 7 years, no less looked at a medical app	00:58
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pupnik	ok i got your profession mixed up with another RP supporter	01:03
RP	pupnik: ?	01:03
pupnik	hah	01:04
pupnik	Ron Paul!	01:04
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RP	pupnik: Last time I checked I wasn't Ron Paul :)	01:04
pupnik	Nokia is amazing	01:06
pupnik	they can make time slow down	01:06
l7	how?	01:07
l7	i thought only apple could distort time ;)	01:08
zerojay	No, they distort users.	01:08
pupnik	waiting for N810 of course	01:08
zerojay	pupnik: No kidding. I'm going insane, dude.	01:08
l7	oh yeah	01:12
l7	waiting for your gear to arrive tends to drive one crazy	01:12
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Sulis	i used to be a fairly reasonable linux user, now i actually own a macbook and an iphone...i don't know what when wrong with my life	01:23
l7	how do you like your macbook + iphone?	01:24
tko	you got old	01:24
l7	i have to admit some envy towards the iphone interface	01:25
zerojay	I can't because I've got none.	01:25
zerojay	When I see the iphone interface, I see nothing but wasted cycles.	01:25
GeneralAntilles	Certainly can't deny its appeal as a phone.	01:25
l7	does the iphone have better video playback too?	01:26
zerojay	Until you use it.	01:26
zerojay	It's not a very good phone.	01:26
GeneralAntilles	I HAVE used it.	01:26
l7	i think it's a bit big for a phone really..	01:26
Sulis	i do like my macbook and i do like my iphone, although i also hate my iphone, because it's got no 3rd party apps	01:26
GeneralAntilles	Than the NITs? Seems like it, l7.	01:26
zerojay	All the effects and stuff just get in the way.	01:26
l7	GeneralAntilles: i don't consider the NIT a phone	01:26
GeneralAntilles	It isn't a phone	01:27
l7	it's a laptop replacement for me	01:27
GeneralAntilles	You were asking about the video	01:27
zerojay	I don't either, but I do use it as one.	01:27
GeneralAntilles	Yes, the iPhone has better video playback	01:27
zerojay	Only if your video is in their format.	01:27
GeneralAntilles	The same applies to the NITs. ;)	01:28
zerojay	The NITs don't have a proprietary format.	01:28
l7	i remember the Jobs saying you could drag their fullsize .mov files onto the ipod for playback w/o conversion	01:28
GeneralAntilles	To an extent.	01:28
GeneralAntilles	It certainly wont play back .movs out of iMovie HD. ;)	01:29
l7	weird	01:29
l7	why is that?	01:29
zerojay	Doesn't have the power.	01:29
GeneralAntilles	Because they're 1080p and absolutely massive?	01:29
l7	oh	01:30
l7	it handles 720p files iirc	01:31
lardman	any gcc asm gurus here	01:32
lardman	compiler gurus probably	01:32
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lardman	well that's stopped everyone hasn't it	01:36
lardman	ignore my question, carry on ;)	01:36
zerojay	200 people are blankly staring at their screens right now because of you.	01:36
lardman	2001	01:36
lardman	201 even	01:36
* lardman goes back to wondering why/how GCC enters some functions half-way through		01:38
pupnik	well we know who has some asm knowings	01:38
guru3	there's always the fall back of magic	01:38
* guru3 fades into the background		01:38
l7	i prefer voodoo...	01:38
GeneralAntilles	voodoo is magic.	01:38
lardman	if I had a pvr.ko dummy I'd be stabbing it right now	01:39
* guru3 goes to install the new AP		01:39
GeneralAntilles	Why doesn't Nokia just release us from our suffering and make that damn thing work already? :(	01:39
lardman	probably a licensing fee or something like that	01:39
l7	lack of resources maybe	01:39
guru3	i can't believe i'm doing this... i'm in a shared house. a seperate ap for me from the flat mates. mine 54g, theirs 11b	01:39
* guru3 fades for real this time		01:40
lardman	both the kernel module and the opengl implementation are probably closed source, so they'd have to pay someone to update them all the time...?	01:40
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GeneralAntilles	Seems like the value-added would be worth it.	01:41
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* lardman thinks so		01:41
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\|R	http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/clips/how-to-eavesdrop-on-bluetooth-headsets-328664.php	01:43
\|R	770 involved :P	01:43
zerojay	timelyx: There's no available API or source code for Google Sync.	01:43
lardman	\|R: I thought only one device could connect at a time	01:44
lardman	\|R: Or is this just to connect to a headset and send sounds to it?	01:44
dragorn	hm, anyone been messing around with host mode usb on the 810 yet? I notice the sysfs-controlled host stuff works on the 800 now, but the same commands on the 810 don't seem to actually switch the mode	01:45
\|R	i think it's just generic mayhem record / play at a starbucks ;)	01:45
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lardman	ah yes, I was thinking it was talking about eavesdropping on a conversation over a bt headset	01:45
lardman	I saw something about that - getting peoples' cars to talk to them :)	01:45
hugolp	\|R: lardman but do you think that bideo is true?	01:46
hugolp	bluetooth is easily hackeable	01:46
\|R	is there a key exchange over the PIN of 0000 so only one device works at a time ?	01:46
hugolp	but that easy?	01:46
zerojay	Yes, it's true. BT is broken.	01:46
lardman	hugolp: I didn't watch it, but there was some proof of concept code about, I think it works	01:46
dragorn	If you're talking about Josh's video, yes.	01:47
hugolp	zerojay: but how does that guy knows the MAC address of the BT headset without the headset in discoverable mode	01:47
lardman	sit and wait for a headset profile to turn up, try sending some common codes, get a connection, send random sounds, etc.	01:47
\|R	http://trifinite.org/trifinite_stuff_carwhisperer.html	01:47
\|R	gotta go :)	01:47
lardman	\|R: That's the one, thanks	01:47
lardman	hugolp: you can scan can't you, and the headset will reply so you know that MAC is in range	01:48
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hugolp	lardman what I know about bluetooth is that if its not in discoverable mode it will only answer to messages that are sent to its specific MAC address. By scanning you mean sending a message to every posible MAC address? thats a lot of posibilities	01:51
pupnik	wow	01:51
l7_	that gizmodo video is really choppy on IT2007 :	01:51
pupnik	"Through Cyber Monday, two of the top three best-selling notebook PCs were technically not notebooks at all: at No. 1 was Nokia's N800 Internet Tablet PC, and at No. 3, Nokia's N810 Portable Internet tablet."	01:51
pupnik	http://www.news.com/2300-1041_3-6220161-7.html?tag=ne.gall.pg	01:51
l7_	wow	01:51
l7_	n800 sold out at buy.com for a while	01:51
l7_	it was such a bargain there	01:51
pupnik	this is great news :)	01:52
l7_	bigger userbase =)	01:52
sbz	it'cause by the arrival of the n810	01:52
lardman	hugolp: yes, I thought I saw something about doing that	01:52
l7_	it was a good move by nokia i guess	01:52
lardman	hugolp: at least a demonstration that it's possible, etc.	01:52
l7_	i wonder how much nokia is making from selling n800s though	01:53
l7_	considering they slashes the price in half	01:53
GeneralAntilles	buy.com slashes the price	01:54
GeneralAntilles	but who knows what wholesale is	01:54
hugolp	lardman Im not saying at all that bluetooth is safe. But I dont know if a normal bluetooth dongle can send and handle that many messages.	01:54
GeneralAntilles	Plus, Nokia's manufacturing costs will have dropped significantly since January.	01:55
GeneralAntilles	I like how they describe it as the "tablet PC" market, pupnik. :\	01:55
hugolp	lardman but bluetooth is shit, I agree with you on that. I read about a demo that some guys did, that they broke the bluetooth of someones computer from 500m away without knowing the code	01:56
lardman	hugolp: I don't know	01:57
lardman	hugolp: all sounds interesting, but I don;'t know much about it	01:57
shacka1	does the alarm clock work when the device is off ?	01:58
pupnik	back in the old days when i wanted to play hijinks on someone's terminal, i had to wait for them to get up from their terminal to get a printout, then quickly set their tty to o+rw	01:59
pupnik	they cat ansi animations (star trek) to their terminal	01:59
pupnik	good times	01:59
pupnik	*then	01:59
GeneralAntilles	shacka1, yes.	02:00
shacka1	GeneralAntilles: awesome :D	02:00
lardman	gcc passes parameters in registers doesn't it for ARM?	02:03
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shacka1	lardman, yes afaik, the first four parameters at least, the rest goes on the stack	02:04
hugolp	anyone here got maemomythtv working?	02:04
lardman	hmm, /me is confused	02:04
shacka1	lardman, notice the "afaik" :)	02:05
shacka1	lardman, why ?	02:05
lardman	shacka1: well that's what I thought too	02:05
shacka1	but?	02:05
lardman	shacka1: create_proc_entry() should take 3 params: const char name, mode_t mode,struct proc_dir_entry parent	02:06
lardman	but, R0=pointer to name, R1=pointer to label in different function (ie. to code as in a goto) and R2=short int value	02:07
shacka1	ah, you're reversing the driver?	02:07
lardman	who, me, no, never	02:07
lardman	:)	02:07
shacka1	oops	02:07
shacka1	anyway..	02:07
shacka1	weird	02:07
lardman	yeah, and the label pointer is half way through another function, i.e no entry register shifting is done, etc.	02:08
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shacka1	why is lxr.linux.no so slow today? :(	02:09
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lardman	hmm, struct proc_dir_entry is a rather large struct too, I wonder where that's hiding	02:11
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shacka1	lardman, no idea if the prototype has changed in the meantime ? (unlikely tough, in that case the kernel should crash and burn)	02:13
shacka1	I also remember you renamed some symbols	02:14
lardman	no, I've got the correct kernel source version and it's the same	02:14
lardman	shacka1: renamed symbols were pci, so nothing to do with this (or indeed anything that's called afaict)	02:14
shacka1	mm, right, reading the mail right now	02:15
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shacka1	lardman, regardless where the parameters actually are, maybe the call fails because the driver somehow picks the wrong parent node ?	02:17
lardman	yes, I'm trying to work out why the driver loads but then doesn't create any proc entries	02:17
lardman	trying to work through the functions as they're called and see what might be causing an issue, etc.	02:18
shacka1	sir, you do have a lot of patience :)	02:18
lardman	well the failure happens early on, the init function should register the proc files....	02:19
lardman	something to keep the little grey cells ticking over :)	02:19
pupnik	Poirot	02:20
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lardman	I fear the little grey cells are all ticked out for this evening though	02:21
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shacka1	haha :)	02:21
GeneralAntilles	lardman, if you manage to get something workable out of this, you will forever be in the hearts and minds of the NIT community. :)	02:22
lardman	we'll see, this is rather a large chunk I've bitten off	02:23
shacka1	lardman, it's the MontaVista Linux v2.6 SDK for OMAP2430 ?	02:23
lardman	no, the open source one	02:23
lardman	but on the same page	02:23
shacka1	oh, ok	02:24
pupnik	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn4TgYkqdi8 Ok offtopic but amazing - Lydia Kavina playing a theremin	02:24
lardman	and for the omap2430 too, which may or may not be an issue	02:24
shacka1	I tought that one only had kernel sources	02:24
lardman	if only :)	02:24
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shacka1	grrrr, ti wants my email	02:24
skiburr	hello	02:24
fysa	Tak: is XMaeme your project?	02:25
lardman	shacka1: I've not had any spam that I know of, just the occasional "are you still you and do you still use this email address"	02:25
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fysa	Tak: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4573&page=2	02:25
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lardman	night chaps, see you on the morrow	02:30
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pupnik	what's up with that fysa	02:31
skiburr	is there support for pygame libraries for Python?	02:31
pupnik	i think so	02:31
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doc\|home	I just applied a boxwave screen protector. Must have taken me about 6-8 attempts	02:51
doc\|home	only time it worked without any lint or dust was when I put it on practically wet, just shaken dry quickly	02:51
doc\|home	but is now almost invisible	02:52
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, it's a pain to apply	02:53
GeneralAntilles	but they stay on	02:53
doc\|home	seems to be lifting a little at the edge but hopefully that'll go away over time	02:53
doc\|home	touchscreen is way more responsive than the stock one is	02:54
doc\|home	er, than when the stock one was on	02:54
* halley has no idea why people use screen protectors. Just don't push so hard on the stylus.		02:55
halley	skiburr, if you install the python2.5-dev, it includes pygame.	02:55
doc\|home	halley: sometimes dust gets stuck between the stylus and the screen and is what scratches my one	02:55
GeneralAntilles	Because A. They reduce glare by a lot.	02:55
doc\|home	I clean it constantly but it happens a lot	02:56
GeneralAntilles	and B. After a year of use without a screen protector, my 770 was noticeably scratched.	02:56
GeneralAntilles	and I'm not uncareful about dust and dirt.	02:56
halley	After a year of use of a 770, an 800 or 810 is available. ;)	02:56
GeneralAntilles	Then we get back to point A.	02:57
GeneralAntilles	glare reduction	02:57
doc\|home	sure, but if a 770 does what you want, a 12 dollar screen protector is a better option than a 500 dollar piece of kit :)	02:57
fysa	pupnik: new Game Boy Advance emulator that compiles/runs	02:57
* halley shrugs.		02:57
fysa	maybe not GBA	02:58
fysa	but at least GB/GB:C	02:58
fysa	let me double check	02:58
fysa	no GBA	02:59
fysa	http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=203791	02:59
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lle2	doc\|home: you seem to have mentioned the words "stock one" in reference to screen protectors	03:07
lle2	there is no stock screen protector	03:07
lle2	you're supposed to remove it	03:07
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lle2	The only display that has been genuinely scratched that I've seen was subjected to serious amounts of sand, a screw driver and deliberate attempts of making the device suffer	03:09
timelyx	lmoura: it doesn't install on my 2.2006.39-14 device	03:09
timelyx	(sorry, got lost in scrollback)	03:09
l7	anyone know how to make osso xterm open urls in the same browser window instead of opening a new one?	03:10
timelyx	hugolp: sorry, my humor is ironic usually, i'm often quite serious	03:11
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GeneralAntilles	lle2, it's a screen protector, however bad its quality may be.	03:20
GeneralAntilles	I used it for 6 months on my N800. :)	03:21
lle2	I think this has been discussed here before ;)	03:21
lle2	completely unrelated: I got a lua scriptable argv[] and envp[] mangling framework in sb2	03:23
lle2	now it's possible to not only control where a process gets its files, but what it will get as its argv and environ	03:23
timelyx	including file 0, 1 and 2? :)	03:24
EnderTheThird	Anyone know if gmythstream is available for 64bit?	03:24
lle2	timelyx: not those, yet	03:24
timelyx	lle2: glad to be a trouble maker	03:24
timelyx	lle2: how's sb2 on osx doing?	03:24
timelyx	(or solaris)	03:24
lle2	timelyx: really bad	03:24
* timelyx grumbles		03:24
lle2	I'm having monumental difficulties in understanding how I'm supposed to link shared libraries there	03:25
timelyx	?	03:25
timelyx	cross ld	03:25
lle2	and as I totally gave up on the macbook pro as a development environment, it's not much of a priority	03:25
timelyx	what's the problem?	03:25
lle2	I can't compile sb2	03:25
lle2	or I can	03:25
lle2	but it doesn't turn out the way it should	03:26
* timelyx tries pulling teeth		03:26
timelyx	care to be more specific?	03:26
lle2	no	03:26
lle2	;)	03:26
doc\|home	lle2: if it comes included, and it protects the screen, to me that seems like a stock screen protector, however temporary :)	03:26
timelyx	doc\|home: have you seen the one on the n810?	03:27
lle2	uhhuh, if someone would give me the exact command line to create a preloadable .dylib, I'd appreciate	03:27
timelyx	it includes a big sticker designed to force people not to use it	03:27
doc\|home	timelyx: nope	03:27
timelyx	what do you mean preloadable?	03:27
doc\|home	timelyx: heh	03:27
timelyx	doc\|home: nokia learns, just very slowly	03:28
lle2	timelyx: as in, LD_PRELOAD=libsb2.so, but obviously on a mac it's something like DYLIB_PRELOAD or something	03:28
timelyx	LD_PRELOADS	03:28
timelyx	arg	03:29
doc\|home	timelyx: I'd rather they had something than nothing, but why not just ship a decent one while they're at it :/	03:29
timelyx	DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES	03:29
lle2	doc\|home: no screen protector is needed	03:29
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doc\|home	lle2: GeneralAntilles's experience seems to show otherwise :/	03:29
GeneralAntilles	and back to point A. Glare reduction.	03:30
lle2	timelyx: yup, but I need to create the .dylib properly first	03:30
lle2	at the moment I fail	03:30
lle2	timelyx: going by the bloody examples I've seen, I should build everything using libtool	03:31
lle2	either the NeXT variant, or gnu	03:31
lle2	I don't want to	03:31
lle2	if it's not possible to create .dylibs on a the mac without using libtool, then I declare the mac as not worthy	03:32
timelyx	ok, how about solaris? :)	03:33
lle2	so far every simplistic example that demonstrates how it's done runs gcc with a switch that makes it run libtool	03:33
lle2	which is so sad it makes me smile	03:33
lle2	timelyx: solaris might already work, no way for me to test it	03:34
timelyx	lle2: i'll give you an account on swift	03:34
lle2	timelyx: I'm not sure I want one ;P	03:35
lle2	but I'll gladly apply patches that fix any possible issues with it	03:36
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* timelyx sighs		03:50
timelyx	these people are so silly	03:50
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GeneralAntilles	I'm sorry, timeless. :(	04:01
l7	so how long does it take for the n800's battery to fully charge?	04:04
milhouse	3 or 4 hours tops	04:06
timelyx	anyone here familiar w/ the folder chooser?	04:08
timelyx	czr? :)	04:08
l7	milhouse: is it better to charge your battery whenever you get a chance or to run it down to empty and then charge?	04:10
doc\|home	l7 whenever you get the chance apparently, which surprised me too	04:10
halley	l7, lithium ion-- just don't drain it for a week after it refuses to boot.	04:10
l7	nokia's manual has a warning to "not overcharge your battery"	04:10
l7	doc\|home: maybe it's better to disconnect the battery immediately after it reaches full then?	04:11
doc\|home	or the charger	04:11
l7	i guess a lithium battery is happier being fully charged	04:11
doc\|home	40% is supposed to be best if you're not going to use it for a while	04:11
doc\|home	there's a page on the wiki	04:12
halley	By "overcharged" they mean 24 hrs.	04:12
l7	since you will decrease it's life when you deep cycle	04:12
l7	doc\|home: ITT's wiki or maemo's wiki?	04:12
l7	it's too bad they didn't implent usb charging	04:13
l7	presumably usb is smart enough to turn off the power when it doesn't need it	04:13
doc\|home	l7 maemo	04:13
l7	ah okay thanks	04:13
l7	halley: does overcharging include simply using the tablet while plugged in?	04:14
l7	if so, maybe you have to unplug when it's full	04:14
l7	i also noticed that if you charge up the battery, and reinsert the plug, it will show the charging icon again	04:15
halley	No, just don't leave it plugged in for days.	04:15
halley	Don't worry so much.	04:15
* sp3000 has a novel rule of plugging things in when it's necessary and unplugging them when it's necessary		04:15
l7	hrm ok	04:15
l7	halley: my n800 is shiny and new, so i must worry about it :)	04:15
l7	sp3000: my IT is an internet radio reciever right now, hence it can be plugged in constantly	04:16
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l7	i just wish nokia had a charging scheme similiar to a laptop's	04:17
l7	it won't even show your charge percentage	04:17
l7	ah well, that is my battery rant	04:18
halley	l7, consider it the same, but it's a smaller battery so less accurate.	04:18
timelyx	nice	04:18
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timelyx	we got a bug report that the browser isn't very responsive with 7 flash videos on a single web page	04:18
timelyx	am i supposed to be shocked?	04:18
doc\|home	I've noticed some stuff with it too. Zooming takes ages.	04:19
timelyx	yes	04:19
timelyx	the zoom ui is also insane	04:20
doc\|home	and when you "open in new window" then minimize the new window, it pops back up	04:20
pupnik	flash is a slug by design	04:20
doc\|home	which is annoying	04:20
timelyx	doc: yeah, um... that one should be fixed	04:20
timelyx	if you have some debugging experience and gtk knowledge, you could actually help	04:20
pupnik	good bug report doc\|home :)	04:20
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timelyx	there is one bug someone filed not to recently complaining about focus stealing	04:21
doc\|home	I'm also getting it that the entire OS freezes but can't figure out why. It is something to do with the browser doing something but I can't figure out why so can't file a bug :/	04:21
timelyx	but i think your testcase is probably better than theirs (do check)	04:21
timelyx	doc\|home: install sshd and gdb	04:21
doc\|home	will do it tomorrow, 'bout to head out now.	04:21
timelyx	(if you're feeling really adventurous, you could look into oprofile, but ...)	04:21
timelyx	oh sure	04:21
timelyx	it's 4am	04:21
timelyx	i don't want an answer now anyway	04:21
doc\|home	:)	04:22
* doc\|home out		04:22
TheFool2	does anyone here use maemo-mapper?	04:23
halley	Is it better than the N810 built in map app? Or is it the same thing?	04:23
l7	so has anyone found any new tricks for speeding up their ITs?	04:23
[pablo]	TheFool2: i do =)	04:23
halley	I think the N810 one is a bit weak, interface wise.	04:24
TheFool2	is there any easy way yo zoom in and out?	04:24
l7	i can't wait to install OS 2008 on an external card	04:24
[pablo]	the zoom in and out buttons on the top	04:24
TheFool2	lol, the volume buttons?	04:24
TheFool2	that makes sense I guess	04:24
[pablo]	?? i dunno, they zoom on my n810	04:24
TheFool2	well thanks, they do on my 770 as well =)	04:25
[pablo]	=)	04:25
dragorn	what they do depends on the app	04:25
halley	TheFool2, they're not volume buttons, they're +/- buttons.	04:25
[pablo]	you can also remap whatever keys you want to zoom	04:25
halley	They usually adjust the font size.	04:25
TheFool2	I totally thought they had a sound label on them, guess I was wrong	04:25
TheFool2	all the better	04:25
TheFool2	[pablo]: have you had any issues waiting for the next map screen to load when using it on the road?	04:26
* timelyx frowns		04:26
TheFool2	halley: I guess I use too many media apps :)	04:26
milhouse	oi timeless - bug 166, I thought you were looking for suggestions! :)	04:26
GeneralAntilles	l7, the overcharging issues applies to NiMH batteries.	04:26
timelyx	milhouse: sometimes yes, sometimes no :)	04:26
timelyx	milhouse: i'd rather them on irc atm	04:27
timelyx	in a different channel	04:27
[pablo]	TheFool2: haven't had the chance to use it on the road yet	04:27
timelyx	anyone want to guess why empty text areas in microb have no context menus?	04:27
milhouse	timeless: ah ok, i'm happy to discuss that first then file it in bugzilla	04:27
milhouse	timeless: though it's not always clear what should be discussed where...	04:28
l7	GeneralAntilles: it seems odd that nokia would put overcharging in the n800's instructions then. does that mean it's safe to keep the IT plugged in indefinitely, barring surges?	04:28
milhouse	timeless: empty textareas... nutjob for a UI designer?	04:28
l7	maybe it's just Nokia's legal department writing it?	04:28
timelyx	no comment	04:28
TheFool2	[pablo]: darn neither have I :(, using it as a map viewer works but I hate the map loading wait. If I was using it on the road that would really drive me insane. It makes sense that there would be a delay when moving the map much faster than a car can move. I am just hoping it doesn't take the same amount of time for small incremental rerenderings	04:29
[pablo]	TheFool2: have you tried pre-downloading the maps?	04:29
l7	i'm almost tempted to buy a used 770 as a dedicated internet radio tuner	04:29
TheFool2	yea, did that and am testing in offline mode	04:30
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GeneralAntilles	l7, it's the old battery recommendations, they didn't change them for lion for some reason.	04:30
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timelyx	l7: err, i thought the radio was an n800 item	04:31
[pablo]	TheFool2: i only wish there was a way to load a route without having access to the internet	04:31
TheFool2	[pablo]: from my understanding the proccessing needed to create a route makes that unfeasable	04:32
[pablo]	yup	04:32
TheFool2	[pablo]: but yea...I would love it too	04:32
TheFool2	[pablo]: because the next step would be auto-rerouting =)	04:32
l7	timelyx: fm radio?	04:33
[pablo]	mapper uses a seperate web service to create the routes, instead of doing it itself	04:33
l7	timelyx: i can't see any reason why the 770 wouldn't support internet radio...	04:33
TheFool2	l7: the only problem is internet radio drains the battery rather fast	04:33
* l7 considering loading nseries.com but it would take five minutes on the IT		04:34
l7	TheFool2: it could stay plugged in...	04:34
TheFool2	l7: I would guestimate about 3 hours before the unit dies on you	04:34
TheFool2	l7: well in that case why not just use your desktop?	04:34
l7	unless the battery were nimh	04:34
l7	TheFool2: lower power consumption and no fan	04:34
l7	and sheer coolness?	04:35
l7	also space	04:35
TheFool2	l7: lol, I will give in to the coolness factor, sorta :)	04:35
l7	whenever i sit down at the desktop, i find dozens of useless things to do	04:35
l7	the IT keeps me focused :)	04:35
TheFool2	because it takes so long to load a web page...	04:36
l7	heh yeah...	04:36
l7	i have heard that the iphone / itouch has a faster browser	04:36
l7	i need to go into a store and test this though	04:36
TheFool2	I love my 770, but it is funny my only complaint is the web browser takes so freaking long	04:36
l7	it didn't seem that fast last timed i tried it int he apple store	04:36
TheFool2	yea one of my friends has one, its faster but still not great	04:37
TheFool2	and on the edge network...	04:37
l7	is browsing in OS 2008 much faster?	04:37
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	04:37
l7	how is wifi browsing performance?	04:37
GeneralAntilles	A lot faster.	04:37
[pablo]	than on edge? yes ... on wifi .. it's similar	04:38
l7	i guess that's a good reason alone to upgrade, even if you lose some apps	04:38
GeneralAntilles	Meh the apps will be back soon	04:38
GeneralAntilles	The important stuff is already there.	04:39
GeneralAntilles	So you're not really losing much.	04:39
l7	maybe OS2008 browsing matches the iphone / itouch's speed?	04:39
l7	if so, my envy is reduced :)	04:39
TheFool2	it better for the price tag	04:39
l7	true	04:39
l7	i don't think the ipod touch has ssh either	04:39
l7	or IM	04:39
TheFool2	the iphone is nice, it does what it was made to do and does it well. But thats it. The IT's can do sooo much more	04:40
l7	or bluetooth	04:40
TheFool2	l7: actually it has all of the above with the right hacks...	04:40
l7	i wonder if the iphone can be had anywhere w/o a contract anyhow	04:40
TheFool2	l7: the bluetooth is there it is simply nonfunctional	04:40
l7	TheFool2: i suppose there are people working on it	04:41
TheFool2	yea, but even so I will stick to my 770	04:41
l7	it sounds to me like it could become like Sony's firmware war against it's community though	04:41
l7	but i don't think apple is quite that dumb	04:41
[pablo]	l7: yes, they sell it in germany and france without a contract	04:41
[pablo]	for over $1000	04:41
l7	[pablo]: oh yeah, that is an absurd price for an iphone	04:42
l7	might as well get an oQo	04:42
TheFool2	if you dont want to use it as a phone there is absolutely no reason to get the ihpone over the ipod touch.	04:42
l7	though that might mean living w/ windoze	04:42
GeneralAntilles	iPhone only has 480x320	04:42
GeneralAntilles	Which is garbage compared to 800x480	04:43
[pablo]	l7: i'm sure you can drop ubuntu or something on an oqo	04:43
GeneralAntilles	iPhone is only faster because it doesn't deal with flash. ;)	04:43
GeneralAntilles	and it's not much faster anyhow.	04:43
GeneralAntilles	OQO wont fit into a pocket.	04:43
l7	TheFool2: yeah it's just the hacking required. because apple wants to encourage iphone sales, it cripples the itouch	04:43
l7	[pablo]: drivers might be difficult, but i guess so	04:44
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TheFool2	that is what ndiswrapper is for I guess	04:45
l7	yeah i still think the n800 is damn good	04:45
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TheFool2	hell yea totally the best buy out there in my view	04:45
[pablo]	for it's $200 price tag the n800 is a phenomenal deal	04:45
l7	it'll really make the itouch look puny when 32gb flash cards are cheap ;)	04:45
TheFool2	but I truly hate it's appearance...something about ti just annoys me	04:46
[pablo]	it's bulky and big	04:46
[pablo]	not sleek	04:46
[pablo]	a bit clunky	04:46
l7	TheFool2: what bugs you about the N800?	04:46
TheFool2	but I love the way my 770 looks, and I like the looks of the 810	04:46
l7	the n810 seems sleeker	04:46
l7	though heavier	04:46
[pablo]	it's heavier, but it's not heavy	04:47
l7	true	04:47
[pablo]	it's solid	04:47
[pablo]	feels like it's all there	04:47
TheFool2	I think it is largely the huge "frame" around it and the metallic look just doesn´t fit it	04:47
l7	i'm not sure i like the n810's lack of external buttons	04:47
TheFool2	l7: true, especially since it is coupled with a gps	04:47
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l7	yeah, it's weird how you have to open the kickstand to get at your buttons	04:48
[pablo]	i never got use to using the external buttons on an n800, because i've never owned one, but the lack of a dpad on the outside doesn't bother me at all, i barely use the dpad	04:48
halley	Er, no.	04:48
l7	that is just weird, but i understand nokia's engineers are dealing with limited space	04:48
halley	You don't have to open the kickstand to get at any buttons. Just the USB and SDmini slots are hidden by the kickstand.	04:48
l7	buttons on the other right side would be neat too	04:48
joshin	Is there still a torrent floating around of the SDK on a virtual machine?	04:48
l7	i feel bad for lefties...	04:49
l7	halley: ah okay	04:49
TheFool2	why? I am a leftie and I want my buttons on the left	04:49
l7	joshin: i thought there was a direct download	04:49
TheFool2	I hold it and access it with the same hand	04:49
l7	joshin: there is a torrent liked from vmware's vm marketplace iirc	04:50
joshin	l7: There is but there are no seeders	04:50
l7	TheFool2:	04:50
l7	TheFool2: oh i thought it would be harder	04:51
l7	joshin: why not sure the direct download?	04:51
l7	unless it's getting real slow	04:51
l7	there's something clumsy about the n800's button setup to me too	04:51
l7	the UI isn't quite as sleek as the iphone's	04:52
l7	though i imagine that can be customized in time	04:52
joshin	l7: I didn't see the direct download. But then again, I think that maemo.org is running on a 770 so poking around there is terribly frustrating.	04:53
l7	joshin, try google	04:53
l7	if you are looking for the vmware thingy	04:54
joshin	l7 good idea	04:54
l7	it was not on maemo.org iirc	04:54
joshin	I just don't want to cruft up my server with scratchbox crap.	04:55
l7	heh	04:55
zerojay	Er.. why would you install it on your server to begin with?	04:56
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joshin	Because my server is where I do all my development work.	04:57
l7	joshin: hey, found it http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/	04:59
joshin	l7: Dang, was just about to post the link myself. Thanks for the help.	04:59
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l7	np	04:59
l7	it is actually rather hard to find	04:59
l7	i didn't find it the first time around for quite a while	05:00
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fysa	http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/07/mini-usb-gamepad-for-those-with-small-hands/	05:02
joshin	That's kinda cool. Velcro it to the back of a 770/800.	05:03
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fysa	haha exactly	05:04
l7	hrm nice	05:04
l7	if usb host mode worked	05:04
fysa	I was looking for a mini USB joystick. I think someone could make a USB joystick contained on a plug end with a single analog stick (think very small) sticking out	05:04
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l7	that'll go nicely with the new GBA emulator	05:05
joshin	Can make it work on the 770.	05:05
l7	how much work is it?	05:05
fysa	which new GBA emu?	05:05
l7	so what are the best games for OS2007?	05:06
l7	or the IT in general	05:06
zerojay	Hey guys, you might want to see about getting the SNES emulator to run well before thinking about GBA.	05:06
fysa	Dungeon Master/Chaos Strikes Back is really good if you've never played it before.	05:06
fysa	and the game back then included a bug-button mouse interface	05:06
fysa	which translates rather well to the touchscreen	05:06
fysa	Wesnoth is fun, but was a bit buggy for me.	05:07
zerojay	Personally, I'm a huge fan of emulators.. My Xbox has a 320GB hard drive with pretty much every emulator on the planet.. but even I don't really see the point of running emulators on the tablets.	05:07
zerojay	At least not yet.	05:07
fysa	GBA with Final Fantasy Tactics would be the pinnacle for me.	05:07
l7	fysa: Gambatte iirc	05:07
fysa	nice pacing for a handheld, won't suffer with onscreen controls	05:07
fysa	I thought it was only GB/GB:C?	05:07
l7	someone mentioned it in channel earlier	05:07
l7	dunno if it works on the IT	05:07
l7	but it might!	05:08
zerojay	fysa: Heard about the PSP version?	05:08
fysa	of Gambatte?	05:08
fysa	no.. was just reading their page earlier	05:08
zerojay	No, FF Tactics.	05:08
fysa	ah	05:08
fysa	yeah, I had a PSP too but sold it last year..	05:08
fysa	1.5 fw/etc, coincidentally sold it for about the same as I paid for the N800.	05:08
l7	nice	05:09
l7	why did you sell the PSP?	05:09
zerojay	I have a DS as well. I took it apart to fix something and just haven't found a reason to even bother with putting it back together yet... even with my flash cart.	05:09
l7	it should be a nice GBA emu for Final Fantasy Tactics i bet	05:09
zerojay	Yeah, the GBA emulator on the PSP is really good.	05:09
fysa	figured it was reaching end of life, only used it on vacation really.. it just kind of sat because it had no day-to-day use like the N800 does.	05:09
fysa	emulators on DS aren't so hot?	05:10
l7	yeah i'm kinda too busy to deal w much gaming myself	05:10
fysa	or it just doesn't have the CPU?	05:10
zerojay	No, they aren't.	05:10
zerojay	The CPU and the dual screens means that you get a slow emulator on a tiny screen and the other one basically does nothing.	05:11
fysa	ah, right	05:11
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zerojay	I do have to say that I've been using my PSP a lot less since getting my N800.	05:11
fysa	hopefully it will only be a matter of time before we get a hacked kernel with a higher max speed.	05:12
zerojay	I used to use my PSP for portable media, etc...	05:12
zerojay	fysa: For what?	05:12
fysa	I bet you can get another 50-100MHz out of the N800 before getting into thermal trouble.	05:12
l7	where is the GB emulator by the way?	05:12
l7	the link on garage seems broken	05:12
fysa	your battery may not last, but who cares -- it lasts long enough anyway	05:12
zerojay	fysa: Well, the chip doesn't go that high, period.	05:12
fysa	the CPU in the N800?	05:12
elb	... a hacked kernel may or may not be able to give a "higher max speed"	05:12
zerojay	Yeah.	05:13
l7	zerojay: how does the PSP's media playing stack up in terms of video?	05:13
elb	there is a clock in there, and it may or may not be capable of going faster	05:13
fysa	right.	05:13
l7	the PSP seems like a good value for video compared to the ipod... but it seems rather heavy	05:13
fysa	but the ARM we use is rated for 1GHz in some applications.	05:13
l7	and big	05:13
zerojay	l7: Generally well. It can't play every media format without mplayer, basically.	05:14
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timelyx	l7: sorry, nokia in its infinite wisdom included a real fm tuner w/ the n800 and only the n800	05:14
zerojay	The PSP Slim is a lot lighter than the regular one.. about 15% amller too.	05:14
timelyx	as a result people who talk about radio are assumed to mean that, and not internet radio	05:14
zerojay	smaller	05:14
l7	timelyx: er yeah, i was thinking of internet radio :)	05:14
zerojay	I think I've only used the FM radio tuner once or twice.	05:15
l7	timelyx: i still wonder about nokia's mysterious decision to include an FM tuner though	05:15
l7	zerojay: can you still install open firmware and video players on the PSP Slim?	05:16
zerojay	They probably had some real official plans with it that fell through.. ran out of time or something... or maybe the hardware designers decided to add it and the software people just didn't bother with it.	05:16
zerojay	l7: Yep.	05:16
l7	nice	05:16
zerojay	Not open firmware.	05:16
zerojay	Hacked firmware.	05:16
l7	oh right	05:16
l7	open firmware not actually being open, if i remember sony's lingo	05:17
zerojay	It would have been open except that Sony couldn't figure out a way to sandbox it effectively.	05:17
timelyx	l7: how could a 400mhz arm processor match a 750mhz iphone processor?	05:17
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: the oqo has full keyboard and full mouse	05:18
l7	timelyx: huh?	05:18
timelyx	there's no reason to stick it in a pocket, just use it	05:18
timelyx	pockets are for devices people don't like or want to use	05:18
l7	does the oqo have a touchscreen?	05:19
l7	a mouse seems weird on that form factor	05:19
halley	Yes.	05:19
zerojay	timelyx: So.. I put my N800 in my pocket while going to work and listening to music on it... does that mean I don't like it or want to use it?	05:19
GeneralAntilles	Seriously, timelyx.	05:20
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GeneralAntilles	I don't carry a bag with me, so pocketable is very important.	05:20
zerojay	I'm not too lazy to hold it in my hand, but I'm tired of hearing people around me saying "He's got an iPhone!" in French.	05:20
GeneralAntilles	Haha	05:20
GeneralAntilles	I never get that, thank goodness.	05:20
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: iirc the oqo has a belt hook	05:20
GeneralAntilles	Haha	05:21
lmoura	timelyx, what doesn't install? (also lost the history :)	05:21
GeneralAntilles	...	05:21
timelyx	lmoura: python2.5-hildon	05:21
timelyx	the oqo we have is on my coworker's desk	05:21
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: you need a good tight belt	05:21
zerojay	I'm on the bus and if it's somewhat packed, they all crowd around me to see me listening to music while playing Mahjong with my fingers.	05:21
timelyx	or coworkers who won't claim harassment..,.	05:21
lmoura	timelyx, any error message?	05:22
GeneralAntilles	Had a bunch of people ask about my N800 when I flew out to Cali.	05:22
GeneralAntilles	Everywhere I sat down.	05:22
zerojay	I was waiting at the bus stop and made a video call to my wife and thought I was going to start a riot.	05:23
halley	Hm, my pygame is up to 10fps but still not quite fast enough to be pleasant.	05:23
GeneralAntilles	Crazy Canadians . . .	05:23
timelyx	lmoura: hildon-libs version not satisfied	05:23
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lmoura	timelyx, probably we messed up with versioning. Tomorrow afternoon I'll install gregale and take a look (it's quite late here in brazil)	05:29
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zerojay	Any python devs around?	05:32
lmoura	zerojay, yep	05:32
zerojay	lmoura: Any way you could possibly package a module for me?	05:33
timelyx	lmoura: it's 5.30am here, what's your excuse? :)	05:33
timelyx	but, thanks :)	05:33
timelyx	lmoura: wait	05:33
lmoura	timelyx, I've to leave home in 6 hours	05:33
timelyx	installing gregale is useless	05:33
timelyx	i have scirocco not gregale	05:34
lmoura	zerojay, right now, no	05:34
timelyx	and i'm not upgrading!	05:34
zerojay	lmoura: Okie dokey. Thanks anyways.	05:34
lmoura	timelyx, oh	05:34
lmoura	that's hildon pre-0.14	05:35
lmoura	http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/scirocco/free/p/python-hildon/	05:36
lmoura	timelyx, did you try that one?	05:37
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l7	hey, does adding too many RSS feeds to the default RSS reader eat up your RAM?	05:47
zerojay	I've got about 45 feeds right now.	05:48
l7	i read something about the RSS reader sharing resources in the manual, but it is as usual unclear	05:48
zerojay	Doesn't seem to cause any problems.	05:48
l7	short feeds or long feeds?	05:48
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zerojay	Uh...?	05:48
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l7	can you tell the OS not the display certain feeds on the home screen?	05:48
l7	i was hoping i could just tell it to put the important ones on the home screen	05:49
zerojay	No.	05:50
zerojay	It puts all updates for all your feeds there.	05:50
halley	Sure you could.	05:50
halley	Just don't put unimportant feeds in your feed list.	05:50
zerojay	halley: Yeah, not a solution.	05:50
zerojay	Not that it matters to me because if I have a feed added to my list, I want to know when there are updates.	05:51
halley	See?	05:51
zerojay	Yeah, but that's me. I know there's a lot of people that do want to select their feeds.	05:52
halley	The "sketch" app needs an "erase all" that doesn't need a pokey confirmation dialog box.	05:53
halley	And its margins are too big.	05:54
zerojay	New isn't good enough?	05:54
halley	Did you read the part where I said "that doesn't need a pokey confirmation dialog box"? I thought that was clear.	05:54
zerojay	There isn't one.	05:55
halley	Uh, click menu, click "New", see "Save Sketch before closing? [Yes] [No] [Cancel]".	05:56
zerojay	I think there might be a way to erase all without doing that.	05:56
zerojay	Uh, doesn't happen here.	05:56
halley	N810 OS2008?	05:56
zerojay	N800 OS2008 44-4.	05:57
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zerojay	I did this time... hmm.. weird.	05:58
halley	Of course it won't ask if you didn't draw anything in the old one.	05:58
zerojay	Well, whatever.. I don't really see the problem with a confirmation dialog box for a program that only has one window open at a time though.	05:58
zerojay	There's no reason why it shouldn't allow you to have more than one open at a time though.	05:59
zerojay	Which is the real problem.	05:59
zerojay	Help shows no shortcut way to erase all, unfortunately.	05:59
halley	The maemomapper+ lets you have many scribbles and notes, but I hate database backends instead of flatfiles, and it's twice as clumsy to make each new note/sketch.	06:00
halley	The pygtkeditor looks nice but I want it to support more than one text file in the session (multiple python instances to edit multiple files is not optimal).	06:01
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zerojay	maemopadplus.	06:01
halley	Er, yeah, maemopad+	06:01
timelyx	lmoura: dunno, application manager isn't finding it w/ a repo configured to be that	06:04
lopz	http://rafb.net/p/m0VY4p72.html <- any ideas ? :)	06:08
lopz	I not use debian :\	06:08
zerojay	You probably have the Application manager open.	06:08
halley	Can't apt-get if you have Application Manager open.	06:08
timelyx	welcome to debian	06:08
lopz	jeje	06:08
* lopz loves gentoo		06:08
zerojay	Same here.	06:09
* halley shudders.		06:09
zerojay	No dealing with dependency hell makes it worthwhile.	06:09
lopz	mm how have xterm + colors ? or only black and white ?	06:11
lopz	I sorry for my english, is very bad :\	06:13
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dick-richardson	with the built-in maps for os2008, where is the dividing line between east and west in the US?	06:16
zerojay	Damn good question.	06:17
halley	dick-richardson, not sure but would guess the Mississippi River.	06:18
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dick-richardson	seems to be as good a guess as any	06:19
halley	Looks like it-- I zoom out and see the US in two tones of green.	06:19
halley	You get numbered hiways on the "off" side, but surface streets on the "on" side.	06:20
halley	I zoomed in on St Louis.	06:21
dick-richardson	I'll take a look once it's done downloading...i'm only 2 hours in so far :/	06:21
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halley	If you don't want the GPS it constantly nags "Enable GPS?!?!?!?!" every 15sec.	06:22
skiburr	does osso xterm work for OS2008 N800?	06:23
halley	lopz, don't think so; using $TERM==xterm-color was not sufficient.	06:23
skiburr	anybody used it yet or tested it?	06:23
skiburr	hum..	06:23
skiburr	I'm using default terminal and MC	06:23
doc\|home	halley: yes, that is annoying	06:23
skiburr	doesn't like the app	06:24
doc\|home	"for the 50th fucking time! I don't want to enable gps!"	06:24
doc\|home	STAB SCREEN	06:24
halley	Glad it's not just me.	06:24
timelyx	halley: i complained about the 15s gps thing internally	06:25
timelyx	halley: pair a phone that doesn't have gps	06:25
timelyx	and configure that as your gps device	06:25
halley	I don't pair with a phone at all. Nokia gets it in their head that the tablet is only useful in proximity with a bluetooth phone.	06:26
halley	All the docs give a hard sell to this usage pattern.	06:26
* doc\|home has no reason to use a phone with it either		06:27
halley	I just don't want a phone. Especially a bluetooth phone.	06:27
doc\|home	has a bug been filed?	06:27
timelyx	halley: pair it with a bluetooth pencil?	06:27
timelyx	any bt device that doesn't support gps will work	06:27
timelyx	doc\|home: a map component in bugs.maemo.org was vetod	06:27
halley	I don't want to be bristling with antennae, I want to look at the map.	06:27
doc\|home	also there's the power usage factor of bluetooth, both on phone and n8x0	06:28
timelyx	if you want to file it in misdirected:nokia, you are within your powers but i should advise against it	06:28
timelyx	the lawyers all said that we shouldn't let users give useful feedback	06:28
timelyx	because our contracts aren't flexible enough to handle it :)	06:28
timelyx	i think the "correct" way to complain that the map app is a PoS	06:29
timelyx	is to call nokia care	06:29
timelyx	and complain	06:29
timelyx	escalate it a few times	06:29
timelyx	and make sure your friends call too	06:29
doc\|home	or fork it	06:29
halley	Nah, they'll just stop supporting it for being a hassle.	06:29
doc\|home	oh wait, this is closed source, isn't it? :/	06:29
timelyx	the closed source contracted application?	06:29
timelyx	even nokians can't fix it	06:29
timelyx	believe me, i tried	06:30
doc\|home	bah	06:30
halley	timelyx, make an OSS "null gps loopback" scheme.	06:30
timelyx	halley: seriously, any bluetooth device that doesn't support gps will work	06:30
timelyx	it probably doesn't even have to be available	06:30
timelyx	(in fact, it doesn't)	06:31
halley	timelyx, (figlet -f large I don't want any bluetooth sniffing at all.)	06:31
halley	If I could rip that antenna out of the case, I likely would.	06:31
doc\|home	yeah, but, why is that bt stuff even necessary? surely someone said "well, if it's not going to be on a n810, gps might not be there"	06:32
timelyx	?	06:33
GeneralAntilles	halley, I think you have an unhealthy hate for RF.	06:33
timelyx	doc: i use the bt gps feature w/ my n810s	06:33
timelyx	because the bt gps i have is better than the n810's internal gps	06:33
doc\|home	timelyx: yeah, but for those of us with n800s	06:33
doc\|home	sorry, maybe I wasn't clear :/	06:33
halley	GeneralAntilles, aviators often do.	06:33
halley	(Though I'm not one.)	06:33
timelyx	doc: confused, if you meant to include sarcasm, it got lost	06:34
GeneralAntilles	Then how is it that statement relevant? :P	06:34
halley	Er, anyone who flies a lot as a passenger might also have a thought or two about RF.	06:34
dick-richardson	timelyx: she's saying why doesn't the app recognize that it could be running on an n800 and forget about gps altogether	06:35
GeneralAntilles	It's called "offline mode"	06:35
lopz	halley, thanks, What is the file that I have to edit?	06:35
timelyx	dick-richardson: um	06:35
timelyx	it does recognize it could be on an n800	06:35
timelyx	hence the gps	06:35
timelyx	dick: but no, seriously	06:35
timelyx	the people who wrote this app did it under contract	06:35
timelyx	and i want to shoot them	06:35
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doc\|home	timelyx: nope, I wasn't. I'm saying the use scenario for the software (being on an n800) means gps might not be available. I'm wondering why they didn't think to allow an option to disable that? :/	06:35
timelyx	i counted something like 33 dialogs for a simple route from DC to Rockville	06:35
doc\|home	ouch	06:36
dick-richardson	timelyx: i gotcha. I'm with you	06:36
timelyx	they're idiots	06:36
timelyx	and the hardware and software was so flaky that i only did testing probably less than a month before the n810 "launched"	06:36
halley	Is the data a standard format, or some custom distortion of the same free survey stuff?	06:36
timelyx	by this time, there was no way in hell to get major fixes in	06:37
timelyx	halley: we wouldn't know, or it'd be a secret	06:37
timelyx	reverse engineer it	06:37
dick-richardson	isn't there a 'final' mid-december release?	06:37
timelyx	dick-richardson: err, redo from start	06:37
timelyx	the software for maps basically went to bed when the n810 shipped	06:37
timelyx	and it isn't written by nokia	06:38
dick-richardson	sorry...I had heard that another firmware was going to be released mid-december	06:38
timelyx	so the amount of flexibility about what can possibly be fixed for it is very low	06:38
dick-richardson	ok, so even if that's true it won't impact the map	06:38
timelyx	they've already futured all of my bugs to a later product	06:38
dick-richardson	LOL!	06:38
timelyx	(this is maps bugs, and i filed a dozen or so)	06:38
timelyx	i also gave someone a much larger list, because i didn't have the energy to file all of htem	06:39
timelyx	believe me, this one was in at least one of the lists	06:39
timelyx	i don't remember which list	06:39
timelyx	but one of the lists was on a very big sheet of paper :)	06:39
milhouse	this maps software situation sounds like Opera all over again... :(	06:39
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timelyx	opera was better	06:39
timelyx	they at least knew what they were doing	06:40
timelyx	problems w/ opera were imo nokia's fault	06:40
timelyx	problems w/ map are only nokia's fault to the extent that nokia didn't give enough specification/guidance/oversight	06:40
timelyx	sorta the opposite extreme	06:40
timelyx	micromangement v. no management	06:41
timelyx	don't think of the app as Nokia Map	06:41
timelyx	think of it as "random company partners w/ Nokia to port their preexisting map to Nokia's devices"	06:41
timelyx	note: i'd publish a list of bugs in the maps app	06:42
timelyx	but as i said, the lawyers veto'd creating a component for it	06:42
timelyx	so i'm pretty sure they don't want me giving you all a headstart on the bug list	06:42
timelyx	bug#1: application name is misspelled (it should be "Maps" like every other Maps application, including Nokia Maps for mobile phones - It's spelled "Map" on N8x0)	06:43
doc\|home	I like the new browser's rendering abilities, it's just a little buggy	06:44
skiburr	Would it be faster to boot OS2008 on an internal card? Would we get more CPU power?	06:44
timelyx	you wouldn't get more cpu power	06:45
timelyx	the cpu is the cpu	06:45
halley	That reminds me of a question someone emailed me about perl. "Could we run 10 copies of the script in parallel and have the results faster?"	06:45
timelyx	halley: sad fact	06:46
milhouse	But ultimately like Opera, Nokia seemingly have no ability to fix the problems with the Maps application because it's contracted out, and due to their mismanagement they seem to have a lot more problems with the map app than they ever did with Opera... oh dear.	06:46
skiburr	http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/ "so the result may be faster due to lower CPU usage..." O Ok less CPU usage. Which is better. :P	06:46
doc\|home	it's perl, so you know, it's possible :)	06:46
doc\|home	perl means all bets are off :/	06:46
halley	I wanted to forward links to "Mythical Man Month" and "Slack" to the guy.	06:46
timelyx	if you're dealing w/ NFS locking, sometimes multiple scripts can actually improve perf (as long as they operate on different bits of the data...)	06:46
halley	No, it's none of that. It was CPU bound calculations that should never have been in perl anyway.	06:47
lopz	halley, I do not find the file for editing, and have support for color in the terminal :\	06:47
timelyx	skiburr: those reasons are fairly bogus	06:47
halley	lopz, your english is rough.	06:47
timelyx	1. the flashes are always available	06:47
halley	lopz, to be more clear: NO YOU CANNOT.	06:47
timelyx	2. decompressing in many cases is faster than extra sector reads	06:48
milhouse	skiburr - booting from internal flash may cause the CPU to spend time compressing/decompressing data written to the jffs2 filesystem, so external flash could be very very slightly faster. but probably not so you'd notice.	06:48
lopz	hexa_, yes, my english is bad , sorry :S	06:48
lopz	halley, *	06:49
lopz	any idea ? help me	06:49
timelyx	as for the bit about more space for apps, that's another story	06:49
timelyx	but you can try playing w/ symlinks if you're feeling adventurous	06:49
halley	Ah, I'm glad I have an auto-ignore-for-N-weeks script.	06:49
skiburr	milhouse - So any other advantages besides more space for installing apps?	06:50
dick-richardson	I wish os2008 had a os2007 vm so I could use my n810 :/	06:50
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halley	dick-richardson, I don't follow you there.	06:53
lopz	urg :\	06:55
timelyx	dick-richardson: you want to use 2007 apps on you n810?	06:55
dick-richardson	I need gnumeric and gpodder to even consider benching my n800...vpn and ssh would be really nice	06:55
timelyx	presumably because no one has rebuilt them?	06:55
dick-richardson	timelyx: yep	06:55
timelyx	ssh is available	06:55
halley	Er, ssh is easy.	06:55
dick-richardson	compiling from source?	06:55
halley	No.	06:56
timelyx	http://gronmayer.com/it/index.php	06:56
skiburr	Wounding if anybody is trying to compile Slackware.	06:56
timelyx	click os2008, enter "ssh", click search	06:56
halley	The one thing that's bugging me about the N810 is there's no Japanese IME.	06:56
dick-richardson	there we go, i've just been looking at maemo.org/downloads	06:56
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dick-richardson	I've fallen in love with that site :D	06:58
timelyx	it's in the topic...	06:58
milhouse	skiburr: not really, additional space when booting from external flash is the main reason. once the OS is upgradeable via the application manager (which should be possible with os2008) it might become advisable to test the upgrade on a cloned OS on external flash. but beyond that i'm stuck for reasons why anyone would want to boot from external flash. i'm sure there are more reasons.	06:58
* halley hopes milhouse didn't type that on the tablet keyboard.		06:59
timelyx	heh	06:59
skiburr	lol	06:59
skiburr	thanks for the info milhouse	06:59
timelyx	halley: i could have written that on my mobile phone :)	06:59
milhouse	np - and no... there'd be more typos if i'd used a tablet!	07:00
milhouse	and i'd still be typing it...	07:00
lopz	mmiller, that file can be modified to xterm-color?	07:00
timelyx	depends on whether you use prediction :)	07:00
dick-richardson	I could do that in graffiti back in the day	07:00
timelyx	dick-richardson: you could still do that today w/ a nice old palm :)	07:00
halley	timelyx, it was the value/strokes ratio and the length of time since skiburr asked the question.	07:00
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timelyx	ah	07:01
timelyx	i think he's distracted elsewhere :)	07:01
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dick-richardson	timelyx: true, but I need spreadsheets and podcasting clients, along with ssh and openvpn. I've outgrown my palm :/	07:03
dick-richardson	er...don't read too much into that	07:03
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dick-richardson	wow, i'm slow...ssh is in the default repos	07:05
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astro76	dick-richardson, there's a vpn client too	07:08
dick-richardson	astro76: do you know as it supports openvpn?	07:09
astro76	dick-richardson, hrm no idea.. it says vpnc, cisco-compatible vpn client	07:09
astro76	default repos	07:09
dick-richardson	yeah, saw that one...won't do what I need	07:09
dick-richardson	unless I get some much nicer hardware here than my 3 year old wrt54g	07:10
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dick-richardson	rootme as the ssh root password doesn't work...?	07:21
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milhouse	something odd about os2008 - works fine if R&D mode is enabled...	07:23
milhouse	@dick	07:23
milhouse	at least it works fine for me, and i've got r&d mode enabled... did you change the password when you installed openssh server? i just entered rootme as the old/new password when it prompted me.	07:24
skiburr	OS2008 Skype N800 crashes	07:25
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milhouse	skiburr: yep	07:25
dick-richardson	I just installed the openssh meta package	07:26
dick-richardson	r&d mode is enabled	07:26
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skiburr	just testing out with my DAD	07:26
skiburr	Thinking of opening a Nokia Internet Tablet webpage Skype Community	07:27
skiburr	it would be great to talking hackers and users alike	07:28
skiburr	*talk to	07:28
milhouse	IIT forums?	07:28
milhouse	ITT even	07:28
skiburr	well, using Skype	07:28
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milhouse	dick: did you change the password during the install?	07:29
dick-richardson	milhouse: i wasn't prompted to do so	07:30
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milhouse	odd, i got prompted to change the root password when installing openssh-server	07:31
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jeff1f	Anyone buy a n810 from jr.com?	07:35
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Sherlockat	hello all	07:49
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Sherlockat	so quiet	07:54
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ShyBoy	hi guys, having problem using apt-get in chinook environment	07:58
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ShyBoy	can someone help please	07:58
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: /] > apt-get update	07:58
ShyBoy	Ign file: chinook Release.gpg	07:58
ShyBoy	Ign file: chinook Release	07:58
ShyBoy	57% [Connecting to repository.maemo.org]	07:58
ShyBoy	it always stuck here for a while and then give the failure msg	07:58
Sherlockat	so quiet	08:00
Sherlockat	do you have yout application manager on when you do that	08:00
Sherlockat	do you have yout application manager on when you do that	08:00
Sherlockat	?	08:00
Sherlockat	sorry my keyboard repeats at times	08:01
ShyBoy	i m doing it in chinook environment on my scatchbox	08:01
Sherlockat	ohhh	08:01
Sherlockat	no clue then	08:01
sp3000	"the failure msg"?	08:01
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: /] > apt-get update	08:01
ShyBoy	Ign file: chinook Release.gpg	08:01
ShyBoy	Ign file: chinook Release	08:01
ShyBoy	Err http://repository.maemo.org bora Release.gpg	08:01
ShyBoy	Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'	08:01
ShyBoy	Err http://repository.maemo.org bora Release.gpg	08:01
ShyBoy	Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'	08:01
ShyBoy	Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/bora/Release.gpg Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'	08:02
ShyBoy	Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/bora/Release.gpg Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'	08:02
ShyBoy	Reading package lists... Done	08:02
ShyBoy	E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.	08:02
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: /] >	08:02
sp3000	I'm pretty sure the temporary ... line will google to something useful	08:02
GeneralAntilles	ShyBoy, it's called "pastebin". :)	08:02
ShyBoy	which files containts the repository list?	08:02
ShyBoy	when i check the "LS" on /etc/apt/source.list	08:03
ShyBoy	it contains 0 bytes	08:03
GeneralAntilles	sources.list.d	08:03
ShyBoy	ah	08:03
ShyBoy	are those wrong repos....?	08:03
ShyBoy	should I manually put the links ther?	08:04
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: /] > ls -al /etc/apt/sources.list.d	08:05
ShyBoy	total 8	08:05
ShyBoy	drwxr-xr-x 2 maemo maemo 4096 Nov 10 14:21 .	08:05
ShyBoy	drwxr-xr-x 4 maemo maemo 4096 Dec 2 02:57 ..	08:05
ShyBoy	-rw-r--r-- 1 maemo maemo 0 Nov 10 14:21 hildon-application-manager.list	08:05
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: /] >	08:05
sp3000	infobot: resolv.conf?	08:05
infobot	i heard resolv.conf is http://www.stanford.edu/~riepel/dns/Not-localhost.html or http://www.tac.eu.org/cgi-bin/man-cgi?resolv.conf+5 or http://www.ntua.gr/cgi-bin/man-cgi?resolv.conf+4	08:05
ShyBoy	this one also have 0 bytes	08:05
skiburr	any good usb keyboard for the N800?	08:05
sp3000	hmm, not a useful factoid	08:05
sp3000	infobot: bad bot	08:05
infobot	Bad bot, bad! No cookie for you!	08:05
sp3000	ShyBoy: shove a proper resolv.conf into the scratchbox	08:06
sp3000	so it can resolve names to ips	08:06
sp3000	I don't remember if there mifght be another necessary step	08:06
sp3000	this is a faq but I don't see a neat page for it	08:07
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: /] > cat /etc/resolv.conf	08:07
ShyBoy	nameserver 127.0.0.1	08:07
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: /] >	08:07
ShyBoy	if I change the nameserver to my router's ip, u think it will resolve the issue?	08:07
sp3000	probably	08:08
sp3000	you probably have a working resolv.conf outside scratchbox, although a fancily network-configuring setup could do something more complicated	08:08
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ShyBoy	but how come in my N800	08:10
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ShyBoy	i have the same nameserver	08:10
ShyBoy	Nokia-N800-44-4:/etc/apt# cat /etc/resolv.conf	08:10
ShyBoy	nameserver 127.0.0.1	08:10
ShyBoy	Nokia-N800-44-4:/etc/apt#	08:10
sp3000	the tablets run their own caching nameserver	08:10
ShyBoy	infact changing the resolv.conf in my chinook_armel also didn't fix the issue	08:11
ShyBoy	i changed it to my router'sip	08:11
ShyBoy	can you please guide me what to do ?	08:11
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sp3000	ShyBoy: <mgedmin>and another trick is to check /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf (make sure mdns is not mentioned)	08:13
zerojay	Anyone out there use hellanzb?	08:13
zerojay	I'm considering doing a tablet frontend/remote control for it.	08:14
ShyBoy	the /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf	08:15
Sherlockat	i have a question	08:15
ShyBoy	contains	08:15
ShyBoy	hosts: files dns	08:15
ShyBoy	networks: files	08:15
ShyBoy	protocols: db files	08:15
ShyBoy	services: db files	08:15
ShyBoy	ethers: db files	08:15
ShyBoy	rpc: db files	08:15
ShyBoy	netgroup: nis	08:15
ShyBoy	should i suppose to have ips?	08:15
zerojay	ShyBoy: Pastebin is your friend.	08:15
sp3000	I guess that looks ok	08:16
ShyBoy	zerojay: you said that earlier as well, what is pastebin? a user?	08:16
sp3000	ShyBoy: it's a bin you paste in :)	08:16
zerojay	ShyBoy: I've only said it once.	08:16
sp3000	infobot: pastebin?	08:16
infobot	[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste	08:16
ShyBoy	got it	08:16
ShyBoy	thx zerojay	08:16
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zerojay	ShyBoy: No problem.	08:16
Sherlockat	questiopn is there a program that can connect directly tablet to tablet for example like pictochat on the nintendo DS	08:17
Sherlockat	maybe its a silly question but just wondering	08:17
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* sp3000 hasn't run into one like that		08:17
Sherlockat	ohh ok	08:18
ShyBoy	sp3000: the issue I am trying to resolve is, i have automake 1.8 in chinook environment, and I want to install automake 1.9 in it, so i can compile my codes, but somehow can't get it work with apt-get upate, any help will be really appriciated	08:18
sp3000	still the temporary failure resolving foo?	08:19
ShyBoy	i guess yes	08:19
ShyBoy	the problem is I even can't ping in chinook prompt	08:19
sp3000	(does it even have a ping?)	08:20
ShyBoy	i badly need to add the repositories in the chinook enviroment, so i can grab the system packages in there	08:20
sp3000	sure	08:20
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: /] > ping google.com	08:20
ShyBoy	bash: ping: command not found	08:20
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: /] >	08:20
sp3000	right :)	08:20
sp3000	you can reach repository.maemo.org with a browser, right?	08:21
ShyBoy	in my linux box yes	08:21
sp3000	fixing resolv.conf and nsswitch.conf should fix the resolving issues, I dunno what else to do with that, I've never hit that problem myself I think	08:21
ShyBoy	i don't know how can i check that from scratchbox prompt	08:21
ShyBoy	i got the vmware image, i guess it should have this issue fixed by itself, but looks like either I am doing something wrong or its not there at all	08:22
sp3000	yeah I meant from the host in general, so it's not some magical dns issue outside sbox as well	08:23
ShyBoy	well, outside the sbox i can ping to google as well as browser opening websites	08:23
ShyBoy	so its something inside the sbox. isn't it?	08:24
sp3000	you could pastebin the resolv and nsswitch	08:25
sp3000	and make sure you're editing the ones reachable from the target sbox env	08:25
sp3000	I can't actually test since my scratchbox drive is having a partition moved for one more hour (it's been going for 7 or so :D)	08:26
ShyBoy	http://pastebin.com/d3cfd5032	08:27
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SignalN800	hi guys	08:49
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ShyBoy	hi	08:53
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sp3000	ShyBoy: so, um, that still says 127.0.0.1	09:05
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ShyBoy	yes, when I changed it to my router's ip	09:08
ShyBoy	there were no effect, so I change it back to 127.0.0.1	09:08
ShyBoy	infact now, I update it	09:09
ShyBoy	and it have two lines	09:09
ShyBoy	nameserver 127.0.0.1	09:09
ShyBoy	nameserver 192.168.1.1	09:09
ShyBoy	still no effect	09:09
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truent	anyone know how to obtain the current AP the n800 is associated with?	09:15
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sp3000	gconf, /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/current	09:22
sp3000	iow, e.g. gconftool --get /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/current	09:22
truent	got it	09:22
truent	thanks	09:22
sp3000	np	09:22
truent	lemme see if that works with a dummy ap ;p	09:23
lopz	bye	09:24
truent	nice	09:24
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lopz	zzZzzZzz..!!	09:25
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ShyBoy	i grab the deb for dnsmasq	09:32
ShyBoy	how can i install it in scratchbox?	09:32
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SignalN800	guys where i can found osso-bookmark-manu ???	09:43
SignalN800	I need it for mozilla based browser...	09:43
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rip__	from your host system	09:52
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rip__	have a look at ur /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf	09:52
rip__	if your still having trouble getting apt-get to get to the internet	09:52
rip__	i've noticed sometimes its not the same as the one you can see from inside your scratchbox install	09:53
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ShyBoy	rip__: i just solved this problem	09:55
ShyBoy	there was a different ip under /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf file	09:55
ShyBoy	i copied the same file from /etc/resolv.conf	09:55
ShyBoy	and that resolve the problem	09:55
rip__	ahh ok cool	09:55
ShyBoy	i am trying to install the automake 1.9 now	09:55
ShyBoy	thx a lot, i got the hint from sp3000 about the /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf	09:56
ShyBoy	great help at the middle of the night :)	09:56
sp3000	alright :)	09:57
rip__	:)	09:57
SignalN800	somebody can help me with osso-bookmark-menu ??	09:57
SignalN800	please..	09:58
SignalN800	i don't found it	09:58
SignalN800	and i need it for mozilla based browser	09:59
ShyBoy	i still can't get the automake in my apt-get install	09:59
ShyBoy	E: Package automake has no installation candidate	09:59
ShyBoy	what repo i need to add, in order to install automake?	10:00
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SignalN800	I dunno	10:00
ShyBoy	one more question: when I do the apt-get update, at the end this is what i am getting	10:02
ShyBoy	W: GPG error: http://maemo-hackers.org mistral Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'	10:02
ShyBoy	specially this one	10:02
ShyBoy	W: GPG error: http://maemo-hackers.org chinook Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'	10:02
ShyBoy	is there any redpill in chinook environment?	10:02
ShyBoy	like we do enable the red pill mode in N800?	10:03
rip__	http://repository.maemo.org chinook/free	10:04
rip__	for automake1.9	10:04
ShyBoy	you mean to add this line in my sources.list deb http://repository.maemo.org chinook/free chinook user	10:05
ShyBoy	right?	10:05
ShyBoy	you mean to add this line in my sources.list deb http://repository.maemo.org chinook/free free user	10:05
rip__	ahh no	10:05
rip__	deb http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free non-free	10:06
ShyBoy	cool let me try, thx	10:06
rip__	add that to /etc/apt/sources.list	10:06
kulve	automake should be provided by by scratchbox	10:06
ShyBoy	yes its there but 1.8	10:06
kulve	to select a certain version, you can set a env variable	10:06
ShyBoy	i need 1.9	10:06
ShyBoy	hmm dunno that	10:07
ShyBoy	how?	10:07
rip__	by default automake1.9 isn't installed in chinook SDK	10:07
rip__	I had to install it	10:07
kulve	grep AUTO /scratchbox/doc/variables.txt	10:07
kulve	[sbox-SDK_BETA_ARMEL: ~] > automake-1.9 --version	10:07
kulve	automake (GNU automake) 1.9.5	10:07
kulve	rip__: isn't it?	10:07
rip__	I just installed it about 2 min ago	10:08
rip__	The following NEW packages will be installed:	10:08
rip__	automake1.9 autotools-dev	10:08
rip__	0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.	10:08
rip__	Need to get 562kB of archives.	10:08
kulve	it's a different thing to have it as a "host tool" than install it as an armel deb	10:09
rip__	ahh ok, sorry, I just thought that it would of been part of the packages if it was installed by default	10:10
kulve	[sbox-SDK_BETA_ARMEL: ~] > export SBOX_DEFAULT_AUTOMAKE=1.9	10:10
kulve	[sbox-SDK_BETA_ARMEL: ~] > automake --version	10:10
kulve	automake (GNU automake) 1.9.5	10:10
rip__	ahh ok my mistake	10:11
ShyBoy	got it installed	10:11
ShyBoy	now when I was compiling the codes, this error came up	10:11
ShyBoy	configure: error: "libspeex header not found"	10:11
kulve	if you have something as a "host tool" it's run as x86 binary instead of being emulated through qemu/sbrsh and it's thus significantly faster	10:12
kulve	ShyBoy: speex? what are you installing?	10:12
ShyBoy	its a library i m trying to install	10:12
ShyBoy	the libseex is available here http://www.speex.org/downloads/	10:13
kulve	ShyBoy: my ogg-support includes speex	10:13
ShyBoy	so i can just install ogg-support?	10:13
kulve	hmm..	10:13
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kulve	that will install only the binary, not the -dev. But if you add my repo, there should be the -devs too	10:13
ShyBoy	what is the link?	10:14
kulve	http://ogg.garage.maemo.org/	10:14
ShyBoy	deb http://ogg.garage.maemo.org/ free user	10:14
ShyBoy	is that correct?	10:14
kulve	nope	10:14
kulve	that was the home page for ogg-support..	10:14
ShyBoy	http://tuomas.kulve.fi/debian	10:15
ShyBoy	deb http://tuomas.kulve.fi/debian chinook maemo	10:15
ShyBoy	right?	10:15
kulve	I think so	10:15
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SignalN800	how i can solv the public key for http://tuomas.kulve.fi/debian ??	10:22
ShyBoy	what do i do after make install?	10:22
ShyBoy	upto here i am good and no error	10:22
ShyBoy	whats next	10:22
kulve	http://tuomas.kulve.fi/pgp.txt	10:24
kulve	but I'm not sure what's the easiest way to get that to the device (or sb)	10:24
kulve	ShyBoy: so, you got the -dev installed?	10:24
kulve	speex-dev that is	10:25
SignalN800	tyy man	10:25
ShyBoy	no it was complaining about libogg	10:25
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ShyBoy	i download the sources and compile that	10:25
ShyBoy	until here I did	10:25
kulve	ShyBoy: hmm.. libogg-dev should be there as well	10:25
ShyBoy	make and then make install	10:25
ShyBoy	yes its installing now	10:26
kulve	and with debs you should do "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" instead of make/make install	10:26
ShyBoy	forgot that	10:26
kulve	"apt-get builddeb libspeex-dev" should install the build dependencies for package libspeex-dev	10:27
ShyBoy	libogg-dev is there	10:28
ShyBoy	but my source compile is still complaining about	10:28
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ShyBoy	configure: error: "libspeex header not found"	10:29
kulve	[sbox-SDK_BETA_ARMEL: ~] > gpg	10:31
kulve	bash: gpg: command not found	10:31
kulve	:/	10:31
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kulve	ShyBoy: hmm.. what header is it looking for?	10:33
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ShyBoy	checking for expat.h... yes	10:34
ShyBoy	checking speex.h usability... no	10:34
ShyBoy	checking speex.h presence... no	10:34
ShyBoy	checking for speex.h... no	10:34
ShyBoy	configure: error: "libspeex header not found"	10:34
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kulve	[sbox-SDK_BETA_ARMEL: ~] > dpkg -L libspeex-dev \| grep speex.h	10:34
kulve	/usr/include/speex/speex.h	10:34
kulve	do you have that one?	10:34
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/workspace/libquran-0.3] > dpkg -L libspeex-dev \| grep speex.h	10:34
ShyBoy	/usr/include/speex/speex.h	10:34
ShyBoy	/usr/include/speex/speex_header.h	10:34
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/workspace/libquran-0.3] >	10:34
kulve	hmm..	10:35
ShyBoy	this command is telling me yes	10:35
kulve	it seems that it should check for speex/speex.h and not just speex.h?	10:35
ShyBoy	so do i have any luck to install this?	10:36
ShyBoy	modify the codes?	10:36
kulve	edit the configure.ac in your package	10:36
kulve	run autogen.sh and try again..	10:36
ShyBoy	:-)	10:37
kulve	that may not be enough though, if the same thing is repeated in the actual code..	10:37
ShyBoy	not that expert man	10:37
ShyBoy	how to I run the autogen.sh?	10:37
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kulve	your package should have one in its root dir..	10:37
kulve	i.e.: ./autogen.sh	10:37
ShyBoy	no its not here	10:37
ShyBoy	i tried that	10:37
kulve	autoreconf --force --install	10:38
kulve	my autogen.sh has only that line..	10:38
ShyBoy	http://pastebin.com/daff6261	10:39
ShyBoy	kulve i paste the result there	10:39
kulve	those seems to be warnings only	10:39
ShyBoy	ok so whats next then	10:39
ShyBoy	if its only warning then, i guess i can make and make install right?	10:40
kulve	did you run "configure" when you got that speex missing error?	10:40
ShyBoy	yes	10:40
kulve	autogen.sh usually creates configure, so next thing is to run it	10:40
kulve	after running configure, you can run make and make install	10:40
ShyBoy	again got stuck on this	10:41
ShyBoy	checking speex.h usability... no	10:41
ShyBoy	checking speex.h presence... no	10:41
ShyBoy	checking for speex.h... no	10:41
ShyBoy	configure: error: "libspeex header not found"	10:41
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/workspace/libquran-0.3] >	10:41
ShyBoy	same thing	10:41
kulve	did you edit the configure.ac..?	10:41
ShyBoy	let me try	10:41
ShyBoy	what should i look for?	10:41
kulve	speex.h	10:42
ShyBoy	any particular file?	10:42
kulve	configure.ac	10:42
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ShyBoy	i got configure.in	10:42
ShyBoy	configure.sub	10:42
ShyBoy	not configure.ac	10:42
kulve	if there is no configure.ac, then edit the .in	10:43
ShyBoy	here are the codes	10:43
ShyBoy	http://pastebin.com/d13833a83	10:43
ShyBoy	but nowhere speex.h	10:43
kulve	AC_CHECK_HEADER(speex.h -> AC_CHECK_HEADER(speex/speex.h	10:44
kulve	bbiam	10:44
ShyBoy	ok	10:45
ShyBoy	did the configure again	10:45
ShyBoy	now this error	10:45
ShyBoy	configure: error: "libspeex header not found"	10:45
ShyBoy	which is same	10:45
ShyBoy	it means that line is on more than one palces	10:45
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ShyBoy	i also changed those lines as well	10:52
ShyBoy	#include <speex/speex.h>	10:52
ShyBoy	#include <speex/speex_header.h>	10:52
ShyBoy	#include <speex/speex_stereo.h>	10:52
ShyBoy	#include <speex/speex_callbacks.h>	10:52
kulve	did you run the autoreconf after editing the configure?	10:52
ShyBoy	now, ./configure works fine	10:52
kulve	ah, ok	10:52
ShyBoy	got error on make	10:52
kulve	ah	10:52
ShyBoy	quran.h:33:29: speex_callbacks.h: No such file or directory	10:53
ShyBoy	In file included from globals.c:25:	10:53
ShyBoy	quran.h:177: error: syntax error before "SpeexBits"	10:53
ShyBoy	so the last include which was speex)callbacks.h	10:53
ShyBoy	i think that one is missing somehow	10:53
ShyBoy	am i on the right track?	10:53
kulve	I think so :)	10:54
ShyBoy	anyway to bypass this thing?	10:54
ShyBoy	or to grab this file?	10:54
kulve	where is that quran.h?	10:55
kulve	edit it to have the speex/ too?	10:55
ShyBoy	k	10:56
kulve	the speex subdirectory seems to be correct in old and in new speex versions.. So adding it to the code is the right thing to do, I guess	10:56
ShyBoy	now this error	10:58
ShyBoy	http://pastebin.com/d63cd273	10:58
kulve	hmm..	10:59
kulve	that gcc line looks odd..	10:59
kulve	it should include e.g. ogg, like it does with speex, i.e. -logg..	10:59
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kulve	that error is because somebody calls that funtion, but the library it's in, is not linked in..	11:00
kulve	and I'm sorry, but I'll have to leave now..	11:00
ShyBoy	thx alot kulve i really appricaite your help	11:00
ShyBoy	thx alot	11:00
kulve	np	11:00
ShyBoy	last question before u leave	11:01
ShyBoy	after make install, it will be installed automatically?	11:01
kulve	I think the le_short is not speex-related, maybe ogg..	11:01
kulve	"installed automatically"?	11:01
ShyBoy	i mean, what do i have to do if i cross this "make install"	11:01
ShyBoy	whast the next step	11:01
kulve	you need to make a .deb from it and install that to the device (with all the dependencies)	11:01
ShyBoy	will it give me the .deb file?	11:01
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ShyBoy	what is the command to make .deb?	11:02
kulve	dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot makes a .deb if you have proper /debian directory in your package	11:02
ShyBoy	k, thx man	11:02
ShyBoy	appricaite your help, thx alot	11:02
kulve	http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/creating_a_debian_package.html	11:02
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ShyBoy	cool	11:02
K`zan	Night folks.	11:04
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kulve	I just woke up..	11:06
hugolp	kulve: me too	11:06
hugolp	good morning	11:06
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ShyBoy	ok, i finally get rid of the errors and make install didn't giv eme any error	11:12
ShyBoy	but now its giving me this	11:13
ShyBoy	dpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open debian/changelog to find format: No such file or directory	11:13
ShyBoy	dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is	11:13
ShyBoy	my command was dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot	11:13
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rocketman	Anyone got a build of Xchat that will run on OS 2008?	11:32
rocketman	The ones that I've seen seem to require libraries that have been deprecated	11:32
GeneralAntilles	http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/	11:35
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rocketman	Thanks a bunch!	11:37
rip__	yep im currently using skyhusker's xchat for OS2008, works pretty well	11:37
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rocketman	I know that people have probably ported a lot of stuff and just haven't released it formally yet	11:38
rocketman	Any other hidden gems?	11:38
rip__	yes im chasing wireless-tools for OS2008	11:39
rip__	thats the gem i'm currently looking for	11:39
rip__	and can't currently get MUD to build it	11:39
ShyBoy	can someone help me with this	11:41
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ShyBoy	i m here rightnow	11:41
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ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/workspace/libquran-0.3] > ./config.status	11:42
ShyBoy	config.status: creating Makefile	11:42
ShyBoy	config.status: creating config.h	11:42
ShyBoy	config.status: config.h is unchanged	11:42
ShyBoy	config.status: executing depfiles commands	11:42
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/workspace/libquran-0.3] >	11:42
rocketman	I suspect Mullinger.org will probably have wireless-tools for n810 shortly	11:42
rocketman	http://www.mulliner.org/nokia770/repository/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/	11:42
ShyBoy	when i run	11:42
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/workspace/libquran-0.3] > dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot	11:42
ShyBoy	dpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open debian/changelog to find format: No such file or directory	11:42
ShyBoy	dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is	11:42
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/workspace/libquran-0.3] >	11:42
rocketman	mulliner, rather	11:42
ShyBoy	what i m missing here?	11:42
ShyBoy	rocketman: the wireless-tools are in repo... if you switch to redpill mode	11:43
rocketman	Ah, in extras or something?	11:43
rocketman	I am more of a why didn't I just swallow the blue pill kinda guy	11:44
ShyBoy	i think in extras, not sure, but i installed it last night	11:44
rocketman	could you export the .deb for us?	11:44
ShyBoy	if you tell me how :)	11:44
rocketman	Doesn't apt cache debs by default?	11:45
ShyBoy	the complete name is "wireless-tools28-1.osso1"	11:46
ShyBoy	i don't know that	11:46
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rocketman	Might be something like /var/cache/apt/archives	11:47
rocketman	sec, will search for it on my n810	11:47
rip__	weird, im on the command line of apt and can't see the wireless-tools28-1.osso1	11:47
rip__	you really have to be in red-pill mode to see all of them even in command line ?	11:48
rip__	I thought red-pill only hid them from the gui package manager	11:48
ShyBoy	I think redpill show the hidden in gui application manager	11:48
rocketman	not finding any stored debs in /var/cache/apt/archives although the directory exists	11:49
ShyBoy	rocketman: same here	11:49
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hugolp	rocketman: maybe in the N800 the deb files get deleted to save space?	11:50
rip__	I can see the libs for wireless-tools	11:50
rip__	but not the actual package that gives 'iwconfig' etc	11:51
ShyBoy	i don't know about that	11:52
ShyBoy	i saw the wirelesstools in my application manager, so i just point that out	11:52
rocketman	I found some	11:52
rocketman	I did "find / -name *deb"	11:52
rocketman	and found them in var/tmp/	11:53
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ShyBoy	Nokia-N800-44-4:/var/tmp# ls -al	11:54
ShyBoy	drwxrwxrwt 2 root root 0 Dec 1 17:19 .	11:54
ShyBoy	drwxr-xr-x 12 root root 0 Jan 1 1970 ..	11:54
ShyBoy	Nokia-N800-44-4:/var/tmp#	11:54
rocketman	This is on an N810 btw	11:54
rocketman	try doing the search I did above	11:55
ShyBoy	mine is on n800 with os2008	11:55
rocketman	might be located elsewhere	11:55
rocketman	Might also only be .deb files since last reboot	11:55
rocketman	or some such	11:55
rocketman	wouldn't surprise me if there is some script which culls .debs and man pages and the like	11:55
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ShyBoy	is there a way to dpkg-buildpackage if have no changelog?	11:57
rocketman	brb, switching to my n810	11:58
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rip__	check out the program called 'Mud'	11:58
rip__	its designed to help build packages for Maemo from source files or from debian apt-get repository	11:58
rip__	http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/	11:59
rip__	I just used it to create OLSRD, and OLSRD-PLUGINS for my Maemo	11:59
ShyBoy	thx	11:59
hugolp	Anyone is using mysql on OS2008?	12:01
hugolp	Im trying the debs from the Gmyth project but I get 1 error	12:01
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hugolp	*MaemoMyth project	12:01
rip__	nope sorry	12:01
Rocketman	On my n810 now	12:02
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android	hi!	12:03
rip__	:)	12:03
rip__	hi	12:03
android	hey, I need libbz2-1.0 for OS2008, do you know where I can found it?	12:04
android	OS2008 is great, I use it on my N800	12:04
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rip__	its already installed on the OS2008 Beta for N800 I beleive	12:07
rip__	well, its installed on mine and I don't remember installing it	12:07
rip__	but if your just after the deb	12:08
rip__	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0/free/b/bzip2/libbz2-1.0_1.0.3-1_armel.deb	12:08
android	ok thank you	12:09
rip__	np	12:09
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Rocketman	Ah looks like you can get wireless tools deb from that repository	12:10
rip__	from the standard maemo repository ?	12:12
ShyBoy	time to sleep 5:13AM	12:13
ShyBoy	good nite	12:13
rip__	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0/free/w/wireless-tools/	12:13
rip__	only the libs are available	12:14
rip__	:(	12:14
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rip__	and I can't seem to build it with MUD either, which is a shame	12:14
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Rocketman	doh, you are right!	12:14
android	rip, please how can I add this repository to my system?	12:15
rip__	err what repository ?	12:15
rip__	the maemo ones ?	12:16
rip__	use ur package manager in OS2008	12:16
rip__	im pretty sure there is doco on it on maemo	12:16
android	I added http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free non-free, but it dont works	12:16
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rip__	you can one click install them with this website	12:18
rip__	http://www.gronmayer.com/it/	12:18
rip__	have a read of the different repositorys and select ones you like	12:18
rip__	it was a life saver for me :)	12:18
android	yes but there is no repository for chinook	12:20
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Yusei	hi	12:21
android	sorry , just have to click on OS2008	12:21
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Yusei	I've just installed the beta release of os2008, and most things seem to work.. except that the browser crashes when I'm going to maemo, in order to download additional software... is this a known bug ?	12:22
Yusei	it's kind of ironic that every other website I tried worked :)	12:23
android	Yusei, I dont have this problem	12:25
Yusei	maybe restoring parameters from a backup of os2007 had a side effect	12:26
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android	it's possible, I dont use the restoring tool	12:27
Yusei	I'll try to look into that. What is the proper way to report a bug, if I find anything interesting ?	12:28
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hugolp	Yusei: I did the same as you yesterday and maemo webpage semms fine	12:32
hugolp	the webbrowser hasnt crash a single time	12:33
Yusei	including the download section ?	12:33
Rocketman	I've had numerous problems when restoring backups after a flash	12:33
Rocketman	Clean flashing is the only way to go imo	12:34
Yusei	I'll flash it again and see, then	12:34
Yusei	thanks	12:34
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Yusei	it works after a reflash, thanks	12:40
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bedboi	hi there.	12:40
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hugolp	for the ones that were looking for a wifi tool for OS2008 in the aderenen.de repository listed at http://gronmayer.com/it theres a packet called wifi info. Havent tried, but you may want to check.	12:43
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rip__	android : http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo4	12:49
rip__	that is chinook	12:49
rip__	OS2008	12:50
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* pupnik_ wishes Arena or Daggerfall were open-sourced		13:14
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glass_	hehe yeah that would be fun	13:17
glass_	are any of the ultima underworld engines finished enough that they're playable?	13:17
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pupnik_	no	13:26
pupnik_	:(	13:26
pupnik_	wish someone would do one based on the quake engine	13:27
glass_	hmm yeah i guess no point in inventing the actual engine itself again	13:27
glass_	3d engine that is	13:27
pupnik_	there are a couple with working 3d engines - just the game mechanics aren't finished	13:28
pupnik_	and i doubt those 3d engines are as efficient as quake	13:28
glass_	yea thats what i read last time i looked into	13:28
pupnik_	what a wonderful company Id software is - open sourcing their games, supporting linux and OpenGL	13:28
glass_	uw's could be pretty playable with touchscreen+some buttons tho	13:29
[pablo]	anyone know why maemo launcher uses up so much memory?	13:29
[pablo]	after a fresh boot running nothing but an xterm my n810 is swapping already	13:31
pupnik_	glass_: any thoughts on why xkbd virtual doesn't send keyboard events to SDL apps when they're in fullscreen mode, but it does when they're not fullscreen?	13:37
Rocketman	If you run top you will find a ton of stuff running	13:38
Rocketman	they really need to put 256MB in these things	13:38
[pablo]	i did, maemo-launcher was using 25% of my ram	13:38
[pablo]	it also starts a bunch of stuff that doesn't need to be started, like the mediaplayer-ui	13:39
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GeneralAntilles	I wouldn't worry about it taking up memory.	13:42
GeneralAntilles	If something needs memory, it will get it.	13:42
pupnik_	so much to do, so little skillz	13:43
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[pablo]	i was downloading a file and it died because there was not enough ram heh	13:44
[pablo]	i never noticed before	13:44
pupnik_	ram takes battery power	13:44
[pablo]	..	13:45
pupnik_	so Nokia N9x0 might have more than 128MB. Not sure. If they want to allow OpenGL, then they damn well better put 256MB in the thing, and use a thicker battery if needed.	13:46
pupnik_	on the other hand slim devices = sexy	13:47
pupnik_	many tradeoffs in a portable computer	13:47
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GeneralAntilles	There's no way the RAM isn't going up with the N900	13:48
pupnik_	heh	13:49
pupnik_	my first portable:	13:49
pupnik_	http://www.silicium.org/ibm/z171.htm	13:49
GeneralAntilles	Slimness is overrated	13:49
GeneralAntilles	I'd rather have my SD slots.	13:49
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, my first (second hand) portable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_IIc_Plus	13:50
[pablo]	yeah, slimness is overrated as well I think	13:51
GeneralAntilles	If it fits in my pocket	13:51
pupnik_	NICE! i have a IIc too :) found it in a basement	13:51
[pablo]	make the n810 1/3rd thicker and 50% taller/wider you get bigger screen, larger keys, bigger battery, more horsepower, same battery life ... sounds good to me	13:52
GeneralAntilles	50% taller/wider?	13:52
GeneralAntilles	How big are your pockets? O_o	13:52
khertan	my first portable : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Portable	13:52
GeneralAntilles	taller and wider are bad	13:53
[pablo]	cargo pockets =)	13:53
GeneralAntilles	thicker is fine	13:53
GeneralAntilles	I could deal just fine with something as thick as the N800's hump.	13:53
rip__	cargo pants ?	13:53
rip__	what are you a hippy :p	13:53
rip__	mull pockets ;)	13:53
[pablo]	no, i just carry lots of shit lol	13:53
rip__	lol	13:53
[pablo]	mull pockets?	13:53
[pablo]	and omg cargo pants are so comfortable	13:54
[pablo]	and i can get away with them at work	13:54
[pablo]	i'm a huge fan	13:54
rip__	cargo pant pockets = mull pockets :p to hide the dope in	13:54
pupnik_	nice khertan	13:54
[pablo]	lol	13:54
khertan	maybe this : http://www.dockers.com/mobilepant/mobile_locator.html	13:54
[pablo]	and even still, who says it has to be a pocketable device?	13:54
GeneralAntilles	My IIc+ is in a landfill somewhere, along with a 128k and a Mac IIci. :(	13:55
GeneralAntilles	Dad went on a rampage and threw out all my old machines in 2002.	13:55
khertan	i still have my IIsi and my macplus :)	13:55
[pablo]	and 50% wider is only like 2.5 inches	13:55
[pablo]	that would make it as long as the nokia e90	13:55
GeneralAntilles	Ugh	13:55
GeneralAntilles	No thanks	13:55
khertan	do u know that minivmac run on n800 :)	13:56
GeneralAntilles	I have to keep this thing in a pocket with my cellphone and (sometimes) a bluetooth GPS	13:56
khertan	u can run system up to macos 7 :)	13:56
GeneralAntilles	wider and taller are not options.	13:56
GeneralAntilles	Too bad I don't have any reason to, khertan. ;)	13:56
[pablo]	for me they are better options =)	13:56
pupnik_	some older people would buy larger tablets, for readability - but i don't think it's a big enough market yet	13:57
GeneralAntilles	Buy yourself one of those new ASUS doohickies, then.	13:57
[pablo]	the eee is to big	13:57
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[pablo]	and for as big as it is it should have way more horsepower	13:57
[pablo]	and a higher resolution than the n810	13:58
GeneralAntilles	No, not the Eee	13:58
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[pablo]	not the eee?	13:58
[pablo]	asus came out with another portable computer?	13:58
GeneralAntilles	Let me find it.	13:58
GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11993	14:00
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khertan	1024 x 600 screen	14:01
khertan	4.8-inch	14:01
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[pablo]	seems a good screen, but it runs window s=/	14:01
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[pablo]	s/screen/size	14:01
konttori	hi.	14:02
konttori	how do I define the 'big' icon in the .desktop file?	14:02
GeneralAntilles	'morning, konttori.	14:02
konttori	morning general	14:02
khertan	no wifi no bluetooth but this : 3G/ 3.5G connectivity	14:02
khertan	burk	14:02
* konttori was just about to update the ukmp icon to be the 'big' one.		14:02
[pablo]	it doesn't have wifi or bluetooth?	14:03
* khertan think he should do the same things for his applications		14:03
konttori	I put 64x64 icon as the default icon, but that was just scaled down to the 26x26 size that is the 'small icon' size	14:03
GeneralAntilles	A bigger screen would be nice, but it would put it out of the IT range and into the UMPC range.	14:04
GeneralAntilles	and I don't think a full-face screen makes sense for the NITs.	14:04
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konttori	any ideas on how to get the full size icon?	14:05
konttori	does it just have to be specific size or something like that?	14:05
GNUton	Hi	14:06
GeneralAntilles	Can you poke one of the .desktop files of an app with a full size icon?	14:06
pupnik_	hah just looked at the htc shift with x86 cpu - 2.5 hours battery while editing text	14:09
pupnik_	konttori: sorry no	14:09
GeneralAntilles	Awesome.	14:09
konttori	maemopadplus has: Icon=maemopadplus	14:10
konttori	X-Window-Icon=maemopadplus	14:10
konttori	X-Window-Icon-Dimmed=maemopadplus	14:10
konttori	So, I'll try out setting the x-window-icon	14:10
konttori	nope, wasn't that.	14:14
GeneralAntilles	Try matching the image file to the maemopadplus image file?	14:15
konttori	hmm... maybe I have the png in the wrong location. I put it to pixmaps.	14:17
konttori	is there alternative location that it should be in?	14:17
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konttori	ok, I copied the icon to /usr/share/icons/hicolor/apps/64x64 ... Resulted in.... no change whatsoever. damn.	14:24
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glass_	pupnik_: "the always on mobile computer"	14:26
glass_	oh it was "always connected" not "on	14:27
pupnik_	I'm a warrior for arm+linux against x86+windows	14:27
pupnik_	heh	14:27
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konttori	correction: the 64x64 copying seemed to have fixed the problem.	14:30
konttori	So, there should be an icon in the 64x64 for aplication to have the large icon	14:31
pupnik	konttori: where is such a large icon displayed? Are you porting to os2008?	14:34
konttori	it's displayed in the task launcher	14:35
konttori	yeah, it's for the os2008	14:35
pupnik	ok	14:36
khertan	konttori: thx for the information ! i'll not search when i ll make the next release of PyGTKEditor and PyPackager :)	14:36
khertan	does someone use PyGTKEditor ?	14:37
konttori	I think some do. and it should be really useful with n810 that has the kb	14:37
konttori	it's really viable to develop on the device itself with the kb	14:37
konttori	pypackager rocks	14:37
khertan	i ll already develop without keyboard ;) PyPackager and PyGTKEditor is developped onboard :)	14:38
khertan	"pypackager rocks" > Thanks	14:38
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khertan	but when i ll get my discounted n810 i think i ll develop faster :)	14:39
konttori	it would be really cool if it could do the last step as well (upload to extras)	14:39
khertan	konttori: i 'm studying this ... but dput isn't available on n800 ...	14:39
konttori	maybe someone can compile it for you	14:39
khertan	and i think i should take a look on the source code to see how it's work	14:40
khertan	maybe someone can compile it for you > it would be great :)	14:40
khertan	it's raining again and again outdoor ... pfffff	14:40
pupnik	a nice drawing / sketching app would be good to have	14:41
pupnik	if anyone is looking for a project to catapult them to fame and fortune	14:41
pupnik	mtpaint	14:41
pupnik	:)	14:41
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pupnik	i think i'll write the mtpaint author again and demand he buy a n770-n810	14:42
khertan	i need to reproduce debsign too to be able to upload package to extra repository	14:43
khertan	What i don't understand well in the uploading to extra repository process is why you must sign a .change file and why you upload this change file instead of the debian package	14:45
khertan	http://maemo.org/community/application-catalog/extras_repository.html	14:48
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kulve	uploading the .changes, it will upload the sources and all the binary packages	14:51
kulve	(afaik)	14:51
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khertan	yes .... but what contain this .change ...	14:52
khertan	i only create .deb with pypackager	14:52
khertan	is there a documentation somewhere of the structure of this .change ?	14:52
kulve	dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot should build all the necessary files	14:52
kulve	including the .changes	14:53
khertan	dpkg-buildpackage isn't available on the it ...	14:53
khertan	it s why i ve created pypackager	14:53
kulve	"on the it"?	14:53
kulve	you mean on the device itself?	14:53
khertan	the purpose is to add a feature to upload package on extra from the internet tablet :)	14:54
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khertan	kulve: on the device itself yes :)	14:54
kulve	that sounds a bit painful..	14:54
khertan	no ... pypackager work very well :)	14:54
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kulve	no it doesn't, if it doesn't do proper packages to be uploaded..	14:54
khertan	it s painfull for onboard developper to not be able to upload their package ...	14:54
khertan	<kulve> no it doesn't, if it doesn't do proper packages to be uploaded.. << for the moment ... it's why i'm studying this :)	14:55
khertan	for the moment pypackager build .deb packet	14:55
khertan	so i think i should get a look on the .change file structure generated with dpkg-buildpackage ...	14:56
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hpg101	hi all. yesterday someone told me of a clock applet for the n800 os2007 which puts a live clock somewhere on the "desktop". anyone know what repository that applet may be in?	14:59
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kulve	hpg101: is that somehow different from the one that comes with the os2007?	15:00
kulve	i.e. there's one clock there already..	15:00
khertan	hpg101: not the default installed with os2008 ?	15:00
hpg101	i was looking for an applet that puts up a live time icon, so i can see it while working with other apps	15:01
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, toolbar.	15:02
GeneralAntilles	osso-statusbar-cpu is a good one.	15:02
hpg101	a toolbar clock app would be ok	15:02
alterego	Not for OS2008 it isn't ;)	15:02
GeneralAntilles	OS2008 is irrelevant here.	15:03
GeneralAntilles	I saw a screenshot with osso-statusbar-cpu running on OS2008, anyway.	15:03
alterego	Yeah, it requires you to install hildon-libs O_O	15:03
hpg101	i'm new to the n800. should i just wait for os2008	15:04
alterego	It's in the repository but the package is broken.	15:04
GeneralAntilles	hpg101, a "desktop" "applet" would only be visible while you're at the home screen with no apps showing.	15:04
GeneralAntilles	You want something to go in the toolbar with the brightness/audio settings, battery, etc.	15:04
kulve	the statusbar plugin api has changed for os2008, but it has os2007 compability lib (iirc), which requires only couple of small changes to the code	15:05
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kulve	main configure.ac check and include paths in source files	15:06
kulve	+ly	15:06
alterego	kulve, yes. There is a legacy plugin loader. I'm not denying that the package might work. But it's showing hildon-libs as a dependency in an OS2008 repository. Which in my mind is completely broken :P	15:06
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kulve	yeah, that's one of the small changes that should be made..	15:07
GeneralAntilles	Aha.	15:07
alterego	:)	15:07
GeneralAntilles	k-chow, alterego!	15:07
GeneralAntilles	http://people.debian.org/~tschmidt/maemo/chinook/osso-statusbar-cpu/	15:07
hpg101	toolbar, status area, switcher area - i'm flexible	15:07
alterego	GeneralAntilles, is that a fully working package?	15:07
GeneralAntilles	Notice the k-chow. ;)	15:08
alterego	GeneralAntilles, it'd be nice if they put _that_ one in maemo extras repository then ;)	15:08
khertan	hum ... dpkg-deb --build and dpkg-buildpackage don't do the same things ?	15:08
kulve	alterego: Depends: libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.2), libc6 (>= 2.5.0-1), libcairo2 (>= 1.4.10), libdbus-1-3 (>= 0.94), libdbus-glib-1-2 (>= 0.74), libgconf2-6 (>= 2.13.5), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.12-1osso3), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2:2.10.12-0osso15), libhildon1 (>= 1.0.11), libhildondesktop0 (>= 1:2.0.2-1), libosso1 (>= 2.13), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.16.4), libxml2	15:08
GeneralAntilles	I guess it's not official.	15:08
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kulve	looks like proper chinook deps	15:08
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GeneralAntilles	One thing that sucks about Dvorak: w is next to v	15:08
GeneralAntilles	"Notes: Official version is not available yet"	15:08
GeneralAntilles	From the ITT wiki.	15:09
alterego	kulve, those aren't the deps I see in the package in my application installer ..	15:09
khertan	For information an unofficial python binding for hildondesktop should be available next week :)	15:09
kulve	alterego: I downloaded that to my etch and checked with dpkg --info	15:09
alterego	kulve, downloaded what? The package GeneralAntilles posted?	15:10
kulve	yeah	15:10
alterego	Well of course the deps in that one are going to work.	15:10
alterego	I'm saying the one in the extras repo is broken ..	15:10
kulve	don't use it then	15:10
alterego	Erm .. I'm not ..	15:10
hpg101	can someone remind me how to intall deb packages, i come from the rh yum world	15:11
khertan	i'm so boring to use dpkg-buildpackage that i ll make a enemy territory party ...	15:11
alterego	Hell, I couldn't if I wanted to :P	15:11
alterego	hpg101, click on it.	15:11
khertan	dpkg -i packagename.deb	15:11
GeneralAntilles	Seriously	15:11
hpg101	thankx	15:11
hpg101	that's thanks	15:11
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GeneralAntilles	Is there a global setting somewhere to change to 12-hour time in stuff like osso-statusbar-cpu and FBReader?	15:15
alterego	GeneralAntilles, this is Lunix remember :P	15:16
* GeneralAntilles comes from the Macintosh world and expects a great many things.		15:16
kulve	in linux there is, I don't know about about that plugin or the fbreader	15:17
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b0unc3	hi	16:44
b0unc3	nfs-modules are disposable for OS2008 ?	16:46
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Segnale007	guys	17:00
Segnale007	I have do apt-get upgrade	17:00
Segnale007	and now	17:00
Segnale007	my n800 is down :(	17:00
Segnale007	why ?	17:00
Segnale007	How can restore it ?	17:01
Segnale007	How can reset it ?	17:01
Segnale007	;_;	17:01
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pupnik	don't do apt-get upgrade	17:03
Segnale007	:/	17:03
pupnik	reflash	17:03
Segnale007	how can do it ?	17:03
Segnale007	now seem dead	17:03
Segnale007	;_;	17:03
pupnik	use the flasher	17:04
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Segnale007	what flasher ?	17:05
Segnale007	I don't know what is it	17:05
Segnale007	is a tool ?	17:05
Segnale007	where I can found it ?	17:05
Segnale007	sorry .. I'm noob	17:05
pupnik	google	17:06
hugolp	Segnale007: at maemo.org youll find the flasher	17:06
Segnale007	okk	17:06
Segnale007	ty	17:07
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Segnale007	I wanna upgrade it a os2008	17:08
Segnale007	I have thought	17:09
Segnale007	if do apt-get upgrade	17:09
Segnale007	I up it to os2008	17:09
Segnale007	lol	17:09
zerojay	Hint: DON'T USE apt-get!	17:09
Segnale007	sorry about that	17:09
Segnale007	why ?	17:09
zerojay	Well, you just saw why. :)	17:09
Segnale007	hahaha	17:10
zerojay	The next major revision of the OS will allow major updates to be done through packages... no more reflashing.	17:10
Segnale007	ok	17:10
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pupnik	hi Segnale007 no you have to upgrade with flasher	17:14
pupnik	but i do not recommend you upgrade to 2008 yet	17:14
Segnale007	k	17:14
Segnale007	but	17:14
Segnale007	I don't found the tool	17:14
Segnale007	I have found it	17:15
Segnale007	sorry	17:15
pupnik	http://maemo.org/community/wiki/Flasher_tool_usage	17:15
pupnik	http://www.maemo.org/downloads/d3.php	17:15
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pupnik	http://www.nokiausa.com/support/phones/main/1,2836,770,00.html	17:16
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Segnale007	ty	17:17
Segnale007	I have a mac	17:19
Segnale007	but I can see there is for a n770 flasher for mac	17:19
Segnale007	flasher.macosx128060flasher utility (MacOS X on PPC) for the Nokia 770	17:19
lopz	hola	17:19
Segnale007	hi lopz	17:20
lopz	hey Segnale007	17:21
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Segnale007	but	17:28
Segnale007	this is for 770 a 800 ?	17:28
Segnale007	http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithmacosx/	17:28
Segnale007	or is good for 800 too ?	17:28
pupnik	hmm	17:29
oil_	jes. first step to introduce n800 to our car in a good way has been done. I installed ukmp with loads of music which my wife in memorycard. then used an cheap fm-transmitter so that we were able to play the music from the car steroes.	17:30
pupnik	Segnale007: sorry i don't know :( There should be a flasher for 800 - maybe the wiki is just outdated	17:30
Segnale007	yah	17:31
oil_	she liked it. next step is to get maps for thailand and use navigation on it. then again. need to do modification to the car stereo so that there would be input for 3.5mm plug.	17:31
Segnale007	this is for N770 to N800	17:31
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lardman	"morning"	17:32
pupnik	greets lardman	17:33
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pupnik	15:31 <+amcoolbot_> Linux Internet tablets gain WiFi login agent - Linux Devices - Nov 29, 2007	17:34
pupnik	15:31 <+amcoolbot_> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/200711201046NS2209272867.ht	17:34
pupnik	m	17:34
pupnik	l	17:34
lardman	Boingo is US only though isn't it?	17:35
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pupnik	dunno	17:35
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oil_	boingo has a monthly fee for wlan access?	17:38
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shacka1	hi lardman	17:38
GeneralAntilles	Segnale007, flasher-2.0.macosx or aflegg's 770Flasher will work.	17:38
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lardman	hi shacka1	17:40
shacka1	lardman, I tried looking at that function yesterday, needless to say it was 3am for me too :)	17:41
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lardman	objdump?	17:41
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lardman	I used aqualung to process it	17:41
lardman	There's actually a function in the calling chain between module_init and that one, I should take a look at it and see whether it makes any difference	17:42
shacka1	yahoo sez it's an ida plugin for arm, doesn't ida do arm already?	17:44
lardman	yes, but it produces nicer more readable output	17:44
lardman	from the assembly output	17:44
lardman	anyway, there's not much in it really, the asm is ok	17:45
shacka1	cool, I tried to fed ida the kernel headers to have prototypes and argument matching, but it choked badly	17:45
lardman	the kernel functions aren't a big issue as there aren't that many extern calls	17:46
lardman	working out the parameters for the internal functions would be good though	17:46
shacka1	that too	17:47
lardman	but the abi is fairly straight forward afaik, so it's just a case of remembering what was where	17:47
lardman	tho that fn from yesterday is confusing	17:47
shacka1	it is	17:48
shacka1	like, that label put into R1	17:48
lardman	I see the calls into the large function (name escapes me atm as I'm running Linux and that's all in WinXP) use bl, which sets the link register, and assuming there's no use for the stack it ought to work I think	17:49
shacka1	so, R1 should be the first parameter or the last?	17:51
shacka1	(I guess the former, put it doesn't seem to point to a string)	17:51
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lardman	R0 should be the first	17:52
lardman	R0 is also the return value	17:53
shacka1	mm, and it's not touched, so the name is set by the caller, yeah	17:53
lardman	yep, it's passed straight through that intermediate fn	17:53
shacka1	this makes R1 the mode, but I haven't looked up the mode_t definition	17:54
lardman	http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort#head-96054c6cb4209b4a589e645dd50ac0fe133b8ced	17:54
lardman	mode_t is rather a large structure, and it looks like R1 points to a short with a value of 4	17:54
lardman	mode_t is passed by reference anyway, so it should be an address	17:55
lardman	that url above is for system calls, but the same appears to hold true for function calls - I made some test fns	17:55
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Segnale007	lol	17:56
Segnale007	Macintosh:Desktop MacBook$ sudo ./flasher.macosx -F RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.38-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R	17:56
Segnale007	Password:	17:56
Segnale007	sudo: unable to execute ./flasher.macosx: Bad CPU type in executable	17:56
Segnale007	maybe	17:56
Segnale007	because I have macintel ?	17:56
GeneralAntilles	Try 770Flasher	17:56
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Segnale007	but	17:56
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GeneralAntilles	Anybody have any input as to whether Fanoush's blest script might be (easily) shoehorned into a statusbar applet?	17:56
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Segnale007	I have n800	17:56
GeneralAntilles	Yes, I know. :)	17:57
Segnale007	ah ok	17:57
lardman	will the static flasher-3.0 not work?	17:57
GeneralAntilles	Who knows	17:57
GeneralAntilles	but the 770Flasher will.	17:57
Segnale007	uhm	17:57
lardman	is 770flasher for the mac?	17:57
Segnale007	I need an id of the n770	17:57
Segnale007	for download 770flasher	17:58
Segnale007	;_;	17:58
lardman	Segnale007: or try 0xffff, should be able to compile it on your mac	17:58
GeneralAntilles	http://www.bleb.org/software/770#770Flasher	17:58
Segnale007	what ?	17:58
Segnale007	I don't understand lardman	17:58
GeneralAntilles	Bad link	17:58
GeneralAntilles	Let me try that again.	17:58
GeneralAntilles	http://www.bleb.org/software/maemo/	17:58
Segnale007	yah	17:58
Segnale007	nice	17:59
Segnale007	;)	17:59
shacka1	Segnale007: 0xFFFF is the name of another flasher	17:59
lardman	Segnale007: http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/	17:59
Segnale007	this is exactly right	17:59
Segnale007	ah ok	17:59
shacka1	0xFFFF	17:59
Segnale007	ty gus	17:59
Segnale007	*guys	17:59
shacka1	hey, where's my monkey ?	17:59
lardman	np	17:59
lardman	shacka1: he was killed	17:59
hugolp	Segnale007: I installed OS2008 on my N800 and its fine. It runs better than OS2007	18:00
Segnale007	uhm	18:00
Segnale007	it's better os2008 ?	18:00
Segnale007	I up it on os2008 ?	18:00
shacka1	up what?	18:00
Segnale007	upgrade it	18:00
Segnale007	a os2008	18:00
Segnale007	or is better os2007 ?	18:01
hugolp	2008 is way better	18:01
Segnale007	good	18:01
Segnale007	:)	18:01
shacka1	do you really think nokia made the new version WORSE than the old one ?	18:01
Segnale007	no no	18:01
hugolp	shacka1: obviously, but its not only better, but surprinsingly better	18:02
GeneralAntilles	Microsoft managed it, shacka1. :P	18:02
GeneralAntilles	The issue has more to do with it's early-release, beta status, shacka1.	18:03
GeneralAntilles	So, yeah, if it had a lot of bugs that hadn't been worked out yet, yes, it would be WORSE.	18:03
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lardman	kulve: you about?	18:19
lardman	kulve: using the standard kernel, I seem to have got some output from a dbg() function	18:19
alterego	pvr?	18:19
lardman	no, this is me trying to finish off the ogg dsp task (by working out how an mp3 task uses threads)	18:20
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alterego	Ah	18:20
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lardman	alterego: I'll get back to hacking on the pvr soon though	18:21
zerojay	alterego: Don't worry about packaging that tag reader library for me. I've got something up and running in python that works well... whereas id3lib tends to output a TON of garbage.	18:21
zerojay	Though I have to say that this is brute forcing things a bit more than I'd like.	18:22
zerojay	I told a buddy of mine about trying to get mp3s played in Media Player sent to Maemoscrobbler, how it's closed source and doesn't give us any help, etc..	18:23
cbx33	can't hte built in media player play m3u?	18:23
cbx33	if not can I get mplayer for os2008 yet?	18:24
zerojay	m3u = playlist.	18:24
cbx33	yeh	18:24
zerojay	And I believe it does support them just fine.	18:24
cbx33	:( - not from gnump3d	18:24
cbx33	oh	18:24
cbx33	I wonder	18:24
zerojay	I told my friend that I was getting the currently playing song by grepping lsof output, his jaw just about dropped.	18:24
cbx33	maybe it's calling it a m3u but playing them in ogg format	18:24
GeneralAntilles	mplayer is available, cbx33.	18:25
cbx33	in os2008?	18:25
cbx33	where man?	18:25
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cbx33	yes, it was playing them in ogg format	18:26
cbx33	can we get ogg support in os2008?	18:26
cbx33	and mplayer?	18:26
konttori	mplayer is in extras-devel	18:26
konttori	but that has poor performance	18:26
* Jaffa now has an Asus Eee		18:27
GeneralAntilles	Works fine over here.	18:27
konttori	GA: mplayer on n810 has poor performance	18:27
GeneralAntilles	Congrats on the small laptop purchase, Jaffa. :P	18:27
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: ta, something to take on holiday next week until I get an N810 :)	18:28
pupnik	lardman: have you gotten any official assistance on that dsp based stuff? i'd love to see a working group coalesce around dsp programming	18:29
cbx33	konttori, worse than n800 on os2007?	18:29
konttori	yeah.	18:29
cbx33	ouch	18:29
pupnik	ogg, MIDI, fm-synthesis, .mod, etc	18:29
cbx33	why?	18:29
cbx33	so how can I play oggs?	18:29
konttori	it should be really snappy but they have compiled it somehow horribly wrong	18:29
cbx33	oh dang it	18:29
cbx33	mplayer was my fav media app	18:29
GeneralAntilles	Like I said, it works fine over here. :\	18:30
GeneralAntilles	Link me a test file and I'll run it for you, cbx33.	18:30
konttori	can you play dailymotion flv videos on your mplayer?	18:30
GeneralAntilles	Dunno, how do I extract them?	18:31
cbx33	how do i add extras-devel?	18:31
pupnik	encourage nokia to support gstreamer ogg plugins, or help with lardman's open-source vorbis player	18:31
konttori	GA: uktube	18:31
konttori	Install: https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ukmp/	18:32
konttori	then open uktube	18:32
GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Working_2008_OS_Software cbx33.	18:32
GeneralAntilles	mplayer on there	18:32
GeneralAntilles	Got it, konttori.	18:32
cbx33	thanks GA	18:32
konttori	you can try e.g.: http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/hips+dont+lie/video/x1g1g_shakira-hips-dont-lie_music	18:32
GeneralAntilles	Ugh, thanks, I'll choose another. :P	18:32
konttori	(if you can paste to your device from irc)	18:32
konttori	;)	18:32
lardman	pupnik: No help per se, but the Nokia chaps are happy to see some of us doing stuff	18:33
lardman	pupnik: help wouldn't be fun either would it ;)	18:33
GeneralAntilles	"Yes, yeeeees, work my pretties. Muhaha!"	18:34
lardman	to the pub, back in a bit (I'm sure I'll be more productive then ;) )	18:34
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konttori	cbx33: just go to application manager. add new catalogue.	18:34
konttori	http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel	18:34
konttori	chinook	18:35
konttori	free non-free	18:35
alterego	Ooo, free evening mobile internet :)	18:35
cbx33	thanks	18:35
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, not much good on the flv	18:35
cbx33	alterego, nice	18:35
GeneralAntilles	I'd only been testing with divx stuff	18:36
GeneralAntilles	which worked fine.	18:36
cbx33	heh	18:36
alterego	Wow, orange also do an unlimited browsing for a week for 5 GBP	18:36
cbx33	alterego, REALLY?	18:36
alterego	Yup	18:36
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alterego	If you're on PAYG	18:36
cbx33	link me	18:36
cbx33	NOW	18:36
cbx33	I've been waiting for this moment.....for a long time	18:37
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cbx33	Damn	18:37
cbx33	I'm on contract	18:37
alterego	Oh.	18:37
konttori	GA: dailymotion video ran just perfectly on the n800	18:37
alterego	Get a PAYG simcard for 1 GBP	18:37
cbx33	I'm going to PAYG soon thou	18:37
alterego	You can order them on the Orange shop.	18:37
konttori	GA: uktube has also support for stage 6 videos, but they perform just horribly on the latest mplayer (well the n810 version)	18:37
GeneralAntilles	Ha . . . soft poweroff currently serves only turn the battery icon on and off.	18:37
konttori	http://www.stage6.com/	18:38
alterego	cbx33, they're kind of like the "bolt-ons" that O2 had. It might be possible to get it for contract as well. Try ringing 450 they're called "Orange world extras".	18:38
GeneralAntilles	I guess we can only hope for a fix before the final hits.	18:38
alterego	£1 for unlimited internet a day. and £5 for a week .. :)	18:38
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cbx33	alterego, nice	18:39
cbx33	thanks	18:39
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cbx33	doh	18:40
cbx33	mplayer doesn't read m3u playlists	18:40
pupnik	not really an optimized-for-audio player	18:41
alterego	cbx33, now all I need is a phone with EDGE ;)	18:41
alterego	The 7300 is a cheap EDGE modem ..	18:42
GeneralAntilles	EDGE is only, like, everything.	18:43
GeneralAntilles	3G is where the fun is.	18:43
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alterego	:)	18:44
* cbx33 has edge		18:44
GeneralAntilles	I just wish bluetooth weren't such a bottleneck	18:45
RushPL_	GeneralAntilles: there was some research showing that EDGE gives far lower latencies than 3G and can bring better experience in web browsing. (lower latencies make seem it seem faster)	18:46
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RushPL_	just my 3 cents. :)	18:46
alterego	I thought EDGE was 3G.1	18:47
GeneralAntilles	RushPL_, it was all BS.	18:47
GeneralAntilles	I've used both rather extensively.	18:47
GeneralAntilles	HSDPA is better. :)	18:47
RushPL_	mhm	18:48
alterego	Hmm .. The 7300 doesn't have ObexFTP	18:48
alterego	I wanna be able to browse ma phone damnit!	18:48
GeneralAntilles	Ha	18:49
GeneralAntilles	What in the world would you keep on your phone?	18:49
alterego	Images from the camera :P	18:49
GeneralAntilles	I use my phone for two things: a modem and a phone.	18:49
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alterego	Yes, me it will be: Quick snaps, phone and modem.	18:49
alterego	Oh, and maybe paper weight	18:50
alterego	Wow, I didn't realise Orange had these deals. I should pay more attention. To be honest, I was going off them O_O	18:51
alterego	Now, for the price of a coffee. When I'm out I can get internet _all_ day :)	18:51
zerojay	I have the best text-to-speech program in the world.	18:51
zerojay	My 7 year old is reading everything you guys are saying in the channel out loud.	18:52
alterego	.. Didn't see that coming .. ;)	18:52
zerojay	<alterego> I wanna be able to browse ma phone damnit! <-- this ended up getting a good chuckle coming from his mouth. ;P	18:52
alterego	zerojay, well. Now I know there's a kid in the room I'll try and lower the tone ;)	18:52
zerojay	pffft.. don't worry about it. Ain't nothing you've said that he hasn't heard from my own mouth at one point or another.	18:53
alterego	Hahah	18:53
czr	all your base are belong to daddy	18:54
zerojay	hahahaha	18:54
alterego	Cool .. Free txts.	18:55
alterego	And evening internet access ..	18:55
zerojay	And now he's trying to read my python code. lol	18:56
alterego	Hah	18:56
alterego	Ask him if he wants some Ruby :P	18:57
zerojay	testmp3 equals eyedeethree tag...	18:57
czr	heh	18:57
czr	he's pretty bright	18:57
alterego	unless daddy.finished?; me.read_screen; end	18:57
* czr sends the full volumes of the knuth books to zerojay's boy		18:57
zerojay	I just showed him what emoticons are... and then he asked me...	18:57
zerojay	while 1 == 1: <--- "Daddy, why did you put eyes there?"	18:57
czr	hah	18:58
alterego	Hah	18:58
Segnale007	ok	18:58
Segnale007	os2008 working on	18:58
Segnale007	but	18:58
Segnale007	I need a terminal	18:58
zerojay	There's one built-in.	18:58
czr	while 1 == 1 is kind of weird though :-)	18:58
czr	while True? or while 1 even?	18:58
Segnale007	oss-xterm of the os2007 not work on os2008	18:58
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Segnale007	uh	18:58
zerojay	Yes, it is... I just don't ever want the script to terminate unless I kill it manually. :)	18:59
alterego	It's already installed ..	18:59
czr	although you could get creative and make it more adaptive: while 1 < 2:	18:59
Segnale007	I checking it	18:59
Segnale007	good	18:59
Segnale007	there is :)	18:59
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Segnale007	and	19:00
Segnale007	for becomeroot ?	19:01
alterego	sudo gainroot	19:01
Segnale007	k	19:01
alterego	(If in R&D mode)	19:01
GeneralAntilles	Haha, zerojay, that's classic. :)	19:02
Segnale007	not in r&d mode	19:02
Segnale007	:(	19:02
GeneralAntilles	Just install becomeroot.	19:02
Segnale007	yah	19:03
Segnale007	I just need some repos for it	19:03
Segnale007	I check	19:03
juh0	http://gronmayer.com/it/ eko one	19:04
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Segnale007	for os2008 ??	19:04
juh0	http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb	19:04
Segnale007	great	19:05
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GeneralAntilles	Anybody happen to have a shot of the 770 with battery cover open and serial port in view that I could borrow?	19:13
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corevette	Blizzard, maker of World of Warcraft, merges with games firm Activision, in an $18.8bn deal.	19:20
cbx33	:(	19:21
cbx33	mplayer does't player m3u playlists	19:21
cbx33	how do i et oformat for myn800 on os2008?	19:22
cbx33	get ogg	19:22
cbx33	my g key has died	19:22
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cbx33	can i get default media layer to ply oggs on os2008 yet/	19:32
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*** timely is now known as timelyx		19:33
ShyBoy	I do not have have proper /debian directory in my package, how can i create a .deb using dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot	19:35
m-vo	ShyBoy, you need to create the debian/ directory first. This unfortunately requires some Debian hacker foo.	19:37
ShyBoy	m-vo: is this a manual process or there is a command for that to create debian/ directory and have changelog in there?	19:38
ShyBoy	i created debian folder and have a dummy changelog in there, but that trick didn't work	19:38
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m-vo	It's not something you can do without getting some understanding of the source and of what you want to do. It is not a fully automatic process.	19:39
GeneralAntilles	Semi-auto, then?	19:40
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: ping	19:40
m-vo	There are shortcuts, but I, err, hesitate to tell you about them because you might hurt yourself. :-)	19:40
GeneralAntilles	Too slow, timelyx!	19:40
cbx33	ogg support?	19:40
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: when you file a bug does it let you choose between Status: NEW and Status: UNCONFIRMED?	19:41
m-vo	You can get a template that is pretty close, but intelligent tweaking is always needed.	19:41
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	19:41
GeneralAntilles	I've been leaving them unconfirmed	19:41
GeneralAntilles	should I not?	19:41
timelyx	i'm looking for a "normal user"	19:41
timelyx	or, if you don't mind, could i use you for a moment :)	19:41
GeneralAntilles	What do you need?	19:41
timelyx	i need to know if you get guided if you don't have editbugs/canconfirm	19:42
timelyx	i was hoping/expecting you would	19:42
timelyx	but it doesn't look like people are	19:42
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m-vo	ShyBoy, OK with these warnings, "man debhelper", "apt-get install dh-make", "man dh_make".	19:43
GeneralAntilles	You wanna lift my bits and I can tell you?	19:44
timelyx	gimme a bit, i'm investigating source side	19:44
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Segnale007	guys	20:08
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Segnale007	what I can use for irc with os2008 ?	20:09
Segnale007	with os2007 I used xchat	20:09
GeneralAntilles	http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/	20:09
Segnale007	..	20:09
Segnale007	ty man ..	20:09
Segnale007	u are beautiful	20:09
GeneralAntilles	Sure thing.	20:09
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Segnale007	this os2008 working much better of os2007 on my n800	20:11
Segnale007	ty so much guys :)	20:12
Segnale007	uff	20:13
Segnale007	I need libgnutls13	20:13
Segnale007	uff	20:14
alterego	You need to had the maemo hackers repository.	20:14
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Segnale007	uhm	20:14
Segnale007	I need a gpg key for it	20:14
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Segnale007	this is really ..	20:14
alterego	uhm .. No you don't.	20:14
Segnale007	I check	20:15
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alterego	Hmm .. The 6300 Nokia product page doesn't say anything about HSCSD but it appears in a few online catalogs with it as a feature.	20:19
* alterego wonders.		20:19
GeneralAntilles	Obviously you're going to have to go buy one and test it. :P	20:20
alterego	Well, it is pretty cheap.	20:21
alterego	And I don't really care.	20:21
alterego	I need a new phone :P	20:21
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cbx33	can it be done...enbling ogg support for the built i media player on os2008?	20:21
Segnale007	yah	20:22
Segnale007	I need the public key for maemo hackers	20:22
GeneralAntilles	Sure, but it relies on Nokia, cbx33.	20:22
alterego	Segnale007, no you don't.	20:22
alterego	What's OMA?	20:23
Segnale007	NO_PUBKEY 5FD45CD3A68E29D	20:23
alterego	O_O	20:23
alterego	Use the application manager.	20:23
Segnale007	how I can copy the test on xterm in os 2008 ?	20:23
sp3000	who took the keys to the pub!	20:23
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Segnale007	maybe I can't	20:23
alterego	Or forget about pidgin and do something else.	20:23
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GeneralAntilles	Pidgin is bloaty	20:24
Segnale007	is active in application manager	20:24
Segnale007	uff	20:24
GeneralAntilles	use jablet.net	20:24
Segnale007	general	20:24
Segnale007	how I can copy the text on xterm here on os2008 ?	20:25
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Segnale007	I'm in trouble right now	20:25
timelyx	um	20:25
Segnale007	I need to copy and paste	20:25
timelyx	stupid quesiton	20:25
Segnale007	:/	20:25
Segnale007	yah	20:25
Segnale007	in 2007	20:25
timelyx	has anyone here heard of the "nokia 'n' series end of year program'?	20:25
Segnale007	I have found the voice	20:25
alterego	I think I'll buy the phone directly from Nokia. I don't want silly "Orange" stickers over the handset and I'd rather get the proper Nokia box and manual ..	20:25
sp3000	Segnale007: drag to select, copy is in the menu	20:26
shackan	the app manager insists on reinstalling pidgin under extras, how can I change that? (and be asked again where to install it?)	20:26
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GeneralAntilles	No, timelyx.	20:27
sp3000	ignore and use the menu organizer? :)	20:27
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, shackan, sp3000's method is the way to do it.	20:28
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ShyBoy	can someone please tell me what is the problem here?	20:29
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/workspace/gnomequran-0.2] > ./autogen.sh	20:29
ShyBoy	./autogen.sh: line 15: ./macros/autogen.sh: No such file or directory	20:29
ShyBoy	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/workspace/gnomequran-0.2] >	20:29
shackan	sp3000: where's that?	20:29
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sp3000	apps settings cpl panel	20:30
GeneralAntilles	Control Panel -> Panels/Navigator -> Organize	20:30
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e-squizo	ShyBoy: looks like you're missing a file in the package	20:32
unique311	something weird is happening with my desktop	20:32
unique311	i had this hardrive (250GB) for probably 1 year	20:33
GeneralAntilles	Beat it with a hammer until it behaves.	20:33
unique311	just checked disk management and it shows the hardrive being a 500GB	20:33
unique311	could this be because of infection	20:34
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ShyBoy	e-squizo: what kind of file?	20:34
e-squizo	unique311: maybe you suddenly have these newfangled 4-bit bytes? :-)	20:34
unique311	right now theirs 187GB unformatted, but i am really afraid on what the results would be if i formattd it.	20:35
ShyBoy	isn't it just autogen.sh?	20:35
sp3000	I suppose infection could cause swelling	20:35
unique311	this is bad.	20:35
e-squizo	ShyBoy: it should... but it looks like you autogen.sh expects an autogen.sh file in 'your macros' subdir	20:36
unique311	i need to transfer everything now.	20:36
halley	unique311, you're probably confusing 512byte blocks for kilobytes.	20:36
unique311	and format that danm thing again.	20:36
* e-squizo is playing by ear here... I'm not well-versed in autogen		20:36
ShyBoy	let me try to fix, thx e-squizo	20:36
unique311	no not confused... 462.63GB	20:36
unique311	i know my GBs from my KBs	20:37
unique311	and im seeing nothing but GBs	20:37
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e-squizo	is there a canonical way to do a python program that will automagically do the hildon thing under hildon, and the standard pyGTK thing under anything else?	20:38
halley	e-squizo, yeah, it's called "two separate frontend classes".	20:38
l7_	anyone know if magnets will damage your tablet>	20:38
l7_	? i have it next to my stereo	20:38
GeneralAntilles	Incredibly unlikely.	20:38
GeneralAntilles	There's no magnetic storage on the tablets besides.	20:39
l7_	hmm i guess i'm just paranoid	20:40
kulve	cbx33: I'm trying to enable the built-in player to play oggs with my ogg-support, but I'm having some problems with it. On my n800 it seems to work, but when I tried to another device, it just says "unsupported file format".	20:40
halley	l7_, "paranoid" != "risk averse"	20:40
GeneralAntilles	My N800 has been sitting in front of my left Axiom bookshelf for the better part of a year	20:40
e-squizo	halley: do you have an example? because that 1) doesn't seem very automagic (requires manual intervention), and 2) most examples I have seen put the hildon dependencies in the class that defines the app, not in the front-end...	20:40
GeneralAntilles	no problems so far. ;)	20:40
kulve	cbx33: I think opening oggs directly with mp is not possible, but opening via the library or from filemanager should work	20:40
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halley	e-squizo, No, I don't. (1) would be easy to work around without manual intervention, (2) I don't know what other examples do, but they don't seem to fit your request or you'd follow their lead.	20:43
* timelyx sighs		20:43
* timelyx owes neil macleod brownies		20:43
halley	There can be only one!	20:43
timelyx	duncan, connor, neil	20:43
derf	kulve: Why is opening them with the mp not possible?	20:43
timelyx	there can be three	20:43
timelyx	for we are the nights of neeee!	20:43
halley	timelyx, gavin	20:43
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halley	Imagine a sword fight on the cruise ship!	20:44
maddler	evening all	20:44
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kulve	derf: I think it only shows files it recognizes and I'm afraid that might be hardcoded somewhere that is not editable	20:47
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cbx33	ok what's the best media player that plays oggs and mp3s nd supports m3u playlists?	20:48
soothsayer	The Chinook SDK installation instructions say to start a new login shell after adding a user to the scratchbox group but that doesn't seem to work for me.	20:48
derf	kulve: That sounds like a bug that should be filed.	20:49
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timelyx	infobot milhouse?	20:50
soothsayer	Anyone know what I need to do for the updated group membership to take effect?	20:50
timelyx	logout :)	20:50
soothsayer	timelyx: Is it really necessary?	20:50
derf	kulve: I might have some time an hour or two to help you debug ogg-support.	20:50
timelyx	yes	20:51
kulve	cbx33: "best" is hard to say ;)	20:51
timelyx	soothsayer: well, technically no	20:51
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timelyx	it's sufficient to log in again	20:51
timelyx	logging out is just the easiest way to force you to log in again :)	20:51
derf	If you've got a bora package for it, anyway. I haven't installed OS 2008 yet.	20:51
kulve	derf: do you have ogg-support installed on os2008?	20:51
kulve	oh	20:51
derf	kulve: No, not yet.	20:51
derf	Does it work on 2007?	20:51
soothsayer	timelyx: What do you mean by 'log in'?	20:51
kulve	derf: I haven't added the mp support for bora.. I'm playing only with 2008 now..	20:52
kulve	and there are differencies with the players in 2007 vs. 2008	20:52
timelyx	soothsayer: on the computer that hosts scratchbox	20:52
derf	Of course, why wouldn't there be?	20:52
kulve	but I think differencies that might make it easier for 2008 than for 207	20:53
kulve	+0	20:53
timelyx	you can either use /bin/login (?) or ssh localhost, or log out of your system (kde/gnome) environment and log in agian	20:53
derf	Well, maybe I'll wait until I get around to installing OS 2008.	20:53
soothsayer	timelyx: Shouldn't starting a login shell work?	20:53
timelyx	it should, sure	20:53
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kulve	derf: the 2008 is not a good choice yet, imo. It has some weird bugs and the app support is not good yet	20:53
timelyx	logging out is easier/safer because otherwise if you try a different Terminal window	20:53
timelyx	you'll be confused when it doesn't work	20:53
timelyx	unless that terminal implicitly uses ssh localhost :)	20:54
soothsayer	It doesn't seem to update my group membership	20:54
sp3000	su -l $USER, for one	20:54
* sp3000 promotes confusion		20:54
soothsayer	'bash -l' should work, no?	20:54
sp3000	nah, for whatever reason	20:54
halley	ash doesn't have . .profile?	20:54
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derf	kulve: I was, in fact, waiting for more things to get sorted out before switching.	20:54
trunneml_	hi	20:55
derf	Or for my N810 to get here.	20:55
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soothsayer	sp3000: Thanks. 'su -l' works	20:55
trunneml_	Im searching the repository of libgdbm-dev	20:55
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soothsayer	How much extra space do the debug packages take?	20:56
timelyx	http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/search?string=libgdbm-dev&find=debian%2Fcontrol&findi=debian%2Fcontrol&filter=&hitlimit=&tree=chinook	20:56
timelyx	trunneml_: it's there	20:56
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timelyx	/gdbm-1.8.3/debian/control,	20:56
timelyx	* line 21 -- Package: libgdbm-dev	20:56
kulve	derf: I'm waiting for my n810 too :)	20:57
timelyx	i.e., chinook	20:57
kulve	soothsayer: depends. They might take a lot	20:57
timelyx	soothsayer: for gecko a debug package can take >100mb :)	20:57
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kulve	I think debugs for gtk is >100mb too..	20:57
kulve	(I might be totally wrong thouhg..)	20:58
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soothsayer	kulve: I mean whatever packages are installed when you ask for DBG packages when installing the SDK (through installer script)	20:58
soothsayer	kulve: Does that include gtk debug packages?	20:59
pupnik	http://blag.xkcd.com/2007/11/19/growing-up/ XKCD Rules! Rules!!! I want to hang out with the xkcd folks :\|	20:59
trunneml_	timelyx: okay and how i install it into the chinook scratchbox?	20:59
kulve	soothsayer: that probably includes almost all debug packages, so it's probably hundreds on MBs..	20:59
soothsayer	kulve: Thanks	20:59
timelyx	trunneml_: apt-get install libgdbm-dev ?	20:59
trunneml_	no it's not working	21:00
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timelyx	well, you could apt-get source libgdbm and then build libgdbm-dev :)	21:00
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trunneml_	Unable to find a source package for libgdbm	21:01
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trunneml_	thats the message	21:01
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timelyx	well, you could apt-get source libgdbm3 and then build libgdbm-dev :)	21:01
trunneml_	oh thats sound better :-)	21:01
kulve	or, apt-get source libgdbm-dev..	21:01
trunneml_	ah how do I bouild a dev package?	21:01
timelyx	kulve: http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php says only bora provides libgdbm-dev for 2008	21:02
timelyx	trunneml_: once you apt-get source you'd use dpkgbuildpackage or something	21:02
timelyx	read a doc for that step :)	21:02
kulve	dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot	21:02
cbx33	kulve, i just want a nice media player that'll play ogg, mp3 and m3u playlists.....mplyer doesn't seem to work properly with the m3u playlist...	21:03
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kulve	have you tried ukmp or kagu? Nice candy ui etc..	21:03
kulve	if you want rough looking ui, use kilikali	21:03
halley	I'm wondering if someone who is familiar with the sdk could rebuild maemocjk.garage for OS2008, to see if it works.	21:03
kulve	timelyx: I meant that you can give the binary package for apt-get source too, it knows what the source package is called (in my chinook target, apt-get source libgdbm-dev downloaded gdbm just fine)	21:05
trunneml_	sorry but dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot creates the package libgdmb3 and not libgedbm-dev	21:05
trunneml_	kulve can you gibe me your reposiroy list?	21:05
timelyx	kulve: it didn't come from chinook	21:06
timelyx	gronmeyer says it isn't there	21:06
timelyx	you got it from bora :)	21:06
timelyx	would someone please find/file a bug about this package being missing from chinook?	21:06
trunneml_	okay so you have repositories from bora and chinook in your scratchbox?	21:06
kulve	deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free	21:06
derf	halley: I certainly hope it does, because I'll need that working before I switch.	21:07
kulve	timelyx: does that include bora sources?	21:07
timelyx	kulve: which?	21:07
halley	derf, don't switch yet then	21:07
timelyx	oh	21:07
* timelyx shrugs		21:07
halley	derf, maemocjk maintainer disappeared	21:07
kulve	timelyx: it seems the source is there, the binary is not	21:07
derf	halley: I have commit priveleges.	21:07
kulve	and building it requires chrpath that's not around	21:08
timelyx	kulve: cute isn't it?	21:08
lardman	kulve: it looks like the os2008 kernel automatically outputs dbg() statements :)	21:08
halley	derf, can you try the build?	21:08
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derf	halley: I don't have the chinook SDK installed.	21:08
halley	Hm, I wonder if I should put a paypal bounty on this.	21:08
derf	And scratchbox has changed a lot sinced I installed it last.	21:09
trunneml_	yes source is there but no package	21:09
kulve	lardman: huh, if it debugs as much as os2007 did when playing oggs, it's not a good thing..	21:09
kulve	s,oggs,mp3s,	21:09
trunneml_	kulve: same here	21:09
lardman	kulve: I see my dbg() output at least, so saves me flashing my new kernel	21:09
kulve	lardman: well, if it doesn't debug other stuff much, then it's good thing, I guess :)	21:10
lardman	kulve: none of the mailbox stuff thankfully	21:10
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kulve	ok, that's the debug I meant	21:11
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derf	halley: I'll certainly get to it by the end of January, since I'm going back to Japan in February.	21:11
Segnale007	guys	21:11
derf	But I can't make any promises about doing it sooner.	21:11
Segnale007	Reading package lists... Done	21:11
Segnale007	W: GPG error: http://maemo-hackers.org mistral Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 5FD45CD3EA68E29D	21:11
Segnale007	W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems	21:11
Segnale007	;_;	21:12
kulve	"chrpath allows you to modify the dynamic library load path (rpath and runpath) of compiled programs and libraries."	21:12
Segnale007	I need gpg key for maemo hackers repos	21:12
timelyx	Segnale007: there probably isn't one	21:12
timelyx	why do you need it?	21:12
timelyx	can't you read all the code and verify it yourself ;-)	21:12
halley	Segnale007, didn't you ask that already and someone said you didn't?	21:12
Segnale007	but	21:12
Segnale007	I need	21:12
kulve	it's only warning	21:12
Segnale007	can u see that ?	21:13
Segnale007	ah	21:13
Segnale007	it working ?	21:13
Segnale007	I try	21:13
kulve	yeah, it should work just fine	21:13
soothsayer	Segnale007: It's on the home page if I remember right	21:13
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soothsayer	Segnale007: http://www.maemo-hackers.org	21:14
Segnale007	k	21:14
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Segnale007	this is the key	21:15
Segnale007	http://inz.fi/pubkey.txt	21:15
Segnale007	I have to add it ?	21:15
soothsayer	Segnale007: Yes	21:15
Segnale007	k	21:15
Segnale007	ty man	21:15
soothsayer	Segnale007: apt-key add pubkey.txt	21:15
soothsayer	Segnale007: No problem	21:16
Segnale007	ty	21:16
Segnale007	:)	21:16
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lardman	what do we reckon causes a "translation fault" on a Ti C55x DSP?	21:22
halley	A Sophia Coppola bootleg avi?	21:23
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lardman	possible.... but probably not	21:23
lardman	:)	21:24
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lardman	at least the DSP kernel hasn't crashed :)	21:26
cbx33	hmmm	21:26
cbx33	tried installing kagu and it complains	21:26
cbx33	about libbz	21:26
cbx33	also if I goto update All system pages from the update manager it complins too....	21:26
lardman	oh, it has, was reset successfully	21:26
cbx33	where is libbz?	21:28
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kulve	does somebody want to verify that media player doesn't play oggs with my ogg-support hack?	21:28
kulve	on 2008	21:28
cbx33	kulve where can i test/	21:28
cbx33	will it mean it will play oggs very soon?	21:28
cbx33	:p	21:28
kulve	I'm trying to enable that..	21:28
kulve	http://ogg.garage.maemo.org/	21:28
cbx33	awesome	21:28
cbx33	ok	21:28
kulve	add that repo	21:28
kulve	but don't install the ogg-support package	21:29
cbx33	i instlled that earlier and it said...This won't add ogg suport is that the one	21:29
cbx33	hang on I'll test	21:29
cbx33	oh	21:29
cbx33	ok	21:29
kulve	just a sec	21:29
cbx33	what do i install?	21:29
cbx33	ok	21:29
kulve	install that package I just told you privately	21:30
kulve	it will edit one file belonging to the meta layer crawler and the mp's desktop file	21:30
kulve	(and unedit on remove)	21:30
cbx33	hmm	21:31
cbx33	missing lots of deps	21:31
kulve	oh?	21:31
cbx33	need to add the ogg repo	21:31
cbx33	hang on	21:31
kulve	yeah	21:31
kulve	I though you had it already..	21:32
cbx33	components??	21:32
kulve	Web address : http://tuomas.kulve.fi/debian	21:32
kulve	Distribution : chinook	21:32
kulve	Components : maemo	21:32
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kulve	the media player plays the oggs on my device, but I don't understand why that package doesn't seem to enable it on other devices..	21:33
kulve	it plays even ogg videos (theora+mp3) :)	21:33
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cbx33	no	21:34
cbx33	what one for the ogg.garage?	21:34
cbx33	compoentsn	21:34
cbx33	i need the gstreamer stuff	21:34
kulve	yeah, they should come from my repo	21:34
cbx33	oh ok	21:34
kulve	i.e. the one I just said	21:34
cbx33	no	21:35
kulve	I added some gst packages to include the plugins missing from the maemo's gst stuff	21:35
cbx33	it dep fail	21:35
kulve	did you refresh the application manager's package list? (it should ask that after editing the catalogues)	21:36
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cbx33	yes	21:41
cbx33	i get nothing	21:41
cbx33	if I try to upgrade Operating System it bails too....cannot install it says	21:42
cbx33	ahhh moans about devel	21:43
cbx33	i see	21:43
cbx33	kulve, still can't get it to work	21:43
cbx33	lib vorbis is missing	21:43
cbx33	6 packages in total	21:44
kulve	it should be there on my repo..	21:44
lardman	hmm, kernel oops now	21:44
kulve	cbx33: http://downloads.maemo.org/product/OS2008/ogg/	21:44
kulve	does that one install?	21:44
cbx33	yes that id	21:45
cbx33	did	21:45
cbx33	i tried it earlier	21:45
cbx33	hmmm	21:45
lopz	apt-get install kagu , exit --> http://rafb.net/p/6nwv2k54.html any ideas ?	21:46
cbx33	i installed libborbis seperately that wored	21:46
cbx33	but i dont think i have all the gstreamer ones	21:46
zerojay	Why are you using apt-get?	21:46
cbx33	ok kulve installing muanll	21:47
cbx33	will take a few moments	21:47
cbx33	brb	21:47
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kulve	cbx33: hmm	21:48
kulve	just sec..	21:48
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cbx33	ok installed	21:49
cbx33	testing	21:49
kulve	I think the vorbis dependency shouldn't even be there.. Only ivorbis..	21:49
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cbx33	dosen't like streaming ogg	21:49
cbx33	should it?	21:49
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kulve	what? the built-in player?	21:50
cbx33	yes	21:50
kulve	I haven't tried that..	21:50
cbx33	with your modification ;)	21:50
kulve	but if you have an ogg on your device, try double clicking it on the filemanager	21:50
kulve	it should open the media player..	21:50
cbx33	ok	21:50
cbx33	opens	21:51
cbx33	but doesn't ply	21:51
cbx33	play	21:51
kulve	it says "file format not supported"?	21:51
cbx33	yup	21:51
kulve	:(	21:52
kulve	I'll try to do some testing..	21:52
kulve	bbiam	21:52
cbx33	be back in a few minutes	21:53
cbx33	ok thanks	21:53
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kulve	cbx33: I copied a new version over the old one. Now you can remove the libvorbis0a and it will take only 20% of the cpu (as it should). Doesn't help with the mp yet though..	22:01
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cbx33	ok	22:07
cbx33	I'll update	22:07
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kulve	aah, stupid mp. Stupid!	22:12
zerojay	Wrestling with Media Player too, eh?	22:13
kulve	it plays audio/x-vorbis, but not application/ogg..	22:13
kulve	cbx33: I'll prepare a new package for you..	22:14
kulve	hopefully updateing works as remove+install in this case..	22:14
zerojay	kulve: You think you've finally cracked ogg playing on Media Player?	22:15
kulve	maybe	22:15
cbx33	kulve, it still depended on that libvorbis package.	22:15
kulve	cbx33: which one exactly?	22:16
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cbx33	libvorbis0a	22:16
cbx33	br	22:16
kulve	weird, I was able to remove it once updated to the new 0.4 version..	22:16
cbx33	hmmm	22:17
cbx33	oh	22:17
cbx33	i removed ogg-support	22:17
cbx33	ermoved libvorbis0a	22:17
cbx33	then installed ogg-support	22:17
cbx33	from your pacakge	22:17
cbx33	and it b0rked	22:17
kulve	I just uploaded a new version there..	22:17
kulve	again with the same name	22:17
cbx33	ok	22:18
cbx33	will try	22:18
cbx33	if it want's libvorbis what shoud i do?	22:18
cbx33	instll it?	22:18
kulve	for now yeah	22:18
cbx33	ko	22:18
kulve	but in that case I think you are downloading it from cache or something..	22:18
kulve	actually, if it wants that vorbis, don't install it..	22:19
kulve	I'll give you a different url..	22:19
kulve	it should want only libvorbisidec1, which is the integer only version	22:19
kulve	(plus the gst etc stuff)	22:19
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cbx33	can you rename it	22:23
cbx33	i think its caching it	22:23
cbx33	rename I'll try gain in 5 minuts=es in the dir	22:23
cbx33	push the rev up by 1	22:24
cbx33	or someting	22:24
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kulve	well, it seems that it doesn't even work yet.. Now the ogg was added to the library, but still "fileformat not supported"..	22:24
kulve	cbx33: remove the /m from the url	22:25
kulve	argh, stupid typo	22:25
kulve	wait a sec	22:25
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kulve	now	22:26
cbx33	ok	22:26
cbx33	i can't ccess that dir	22:27
kulve	yuo should be able to download the direct url, the indexing is forbidden	22:27
cbx33	ok	22:29
cbx33	samename?	22:29
kulve	yeah	22:29
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cbx33	ok installing	22:30
cbx33	hang on I'll try it	22:30
kulve	hah! the Map cannot save the maps to external card, but it can read them there :)	22:30
kulve	(OT)	22:30
kulve	cbx33: rename the ogg you have	22:30
kulve	cbx33: or the dir	22:30
fysa	is it possible to get xscreensaver running?	22:30
cbx33	ok	22:30
kulve	cbx33: the meta layer crawler knows already the current ones and have wrong mime type for them	22:31
cbx33	it didn't work with the same name	22:31
cbx33	ok	22:31
kulve	hmm.. seems that it doesn't still work..?	22:32
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cbx33	no	22:32
cbx33	it knows how long the file is though	22:32
cbx33	any idea where I can get libbz from people?	22:33
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* czr peeks		22:34
zerojay	kulve: If you guys get this ogg thing working sometime soon, let me know and I'll add ogg support for my scrobbling script.	22:35
kulve	zerojay: ack	22:35
zerojay	It's going to be nice having Maemoscrobbler support in Media Player. :D	22:36
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kulve	cbx33: hmm.. Edit your /usr/share/applications/hildon/mp_ui.desktop. My package messed up the Mimetype line. There's one 2audio/x-vorbis too much. That isn't probably the cause for the not-playing-oggs..	22:36
cbx33	brb	22:38
cbx33	just gotta swith machines	22:38
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cbx33	ok kulve what did you tell me to do	22:43
kulve	cbx33: hmm.. Edit your /usr/share/applications/hildon/mp_ui.desktop. My package messed up the Mimetype line. There's one 2audio/x-vorbis too much. That isn't probably the cause for the not-playing-oggs..	22:43
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cbx33	how can i edit it	22:44
cbx33	i'll need root privs no?	22:44
kulve	yes	22:44
cbx33	I need to get nano	22:44
kulve	there's vi :)	22:44
cbx33	ko	22:44
kulve	leave it there, if it's a problem..	22:44
kulve	and it seems that the app.mgr. won't install deps if the package is not being installed from a repository, even if the deps are available :(	22:45
cbx33	yeh	22:45
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cbx33	i only had one of those lines	22:46
cbx33	ok so if not	22:47
cbx33	libbz????? anyone???	22:47
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cbx33	seems kagu doesn't install yet on os2008	22:54
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zerojay	It does.	22:55
cbx33	not here	22:55
cbx33	moans about libbz not being available	22:55
zerojay	Installed just fine here.	22:55
zerojay	You're probably missing a repo.	22:55
cbx33	can you tell me which repo had libbz.....please!!	22:56
zerojay	I don't know which one has it offhand.	22:56
kulve	cbx33: I just don't get this. On my device, there's no id3 info, but the ogg plays. On the other device, the mp gets artist/etc but doesn't play it..	22:56
cbx33	can't you apt-cache show libbz?	22:56
cbx33	hehhe	22:56
zerojay	Ironically, I'm uninstalling Kagu in a few minutes as the only reason I ever used it, scrobbling, I can now do without it.	22:56
zerojay	cbx33: Is that all you need?	22:56
cbx33	apparently	22:56
cbx33	i just wanna play oggs	22:57
cbx33	and mp3s	22:57
cbx33	and m3u playlists	22:57
zerojay	Unable to locate package libbz.	22:57
cbx33	BLARG!!!!	22:57
zerojay	Media player plays m3u playlists.	22:57
cbx33	but not ogg	22:57
cbx33	libbbz2	22:58
cbx33	libbz2	22:58
cbx33	try that	22:58
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zerojay	Returns with nothing, no error either.	22:58
zerojay	These kinds of things happen when you start using apt...	22:59
cbx33	apt-cache madison libbz2	22:59
zerojay	Same thing.	23:00
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cbx33	grrr	23:00
lopz	arg!	23:01
cbx33	come on kulve you can do it!!!!	23:01
lopz	http://rafb.net/p/TysMdx89.html <- any ideas ?	23:01
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lopz	threads.py is -> http://rafb.net/p/Q9XXoU62.html	23:01
lopz	whats the problem ?	23:01
kulve	cbx33: do you see the id3 info from your ogg?	23:02
cbx33	i see time information	23:02
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kulve	if I click the view that shows only the song currently playing, it shows the real name and artist too..	23:03
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lopz	any idea for my problem?	23:05
fysa	xscreensaver	23:08
pupnik	hrm	23:10
lopz	eh ?	23:13
lopz	I not have idea, help me please :)	23:13
cbx33	kulve, anything?	23:14
kulve	cbx33: no :(	23:14
kulve	it plays on my device, but I don't know why :(	23:14
kulve	the only difference I see is the id3 info	23:15
kulve	on the other device they are in /home/user/.meta_storage and also mp shows them but won't play. And vice versa on the other device	23:15
kulve	I'll have to get some sleep know, but I'll continue debugging tomorrow evening..	23:16
cbx33	ko	23:16
kulve	cbx33: did you flash 2008 and restore it2007 backup?	23:17
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cbx33	yes	23:17
kulve	well, that's another difference, but that starts to be a bit far fetched..	23:18
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cbx33	hmmm	23:19
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cbx33	no one got any ideas about libbz2?	23:22
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cbx33	is it because I have devel extras?	23:32
GeneralAntilles	Did you enable chinook extras?	23:32
cbx33	yeh	23:33
cbx33	else i couldn't see kagu in app manager	23:33
cbx33	hmmm	23:34
cbx33	may have found something	23:34
cbx33	though doubt it	23:34
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cbx33	no	23:34
cbx33	extras had no component	23:34
cbx33	i mean	23:34
cbx33	distribution	23:35
GeneralAntilles	It defaults to lastest.	23:35
GeneralAntilles	Well, _should_.	23:35
cbx33	ok	23:35
cbx33	then I'm stuck	23:35
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cbx33	why the heck can't I find libbz2	23:35
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zerojay	Perhaps you've already got it installed?	23:37
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cbx33	nope	23:38
zerojay	Red pill mode?	23:38
cbx33	yup	23:38
cbx33	if I do apt-get install kagu	23:38
cbx33	it doesn't moan about libbz2	23:38
zerojay	Don't use apt-get.	23:38
cbx33	but about some python pagkages	23:38
zerojay	You're just begging for trouble.	23:38
cbx33	really>?	23:39
m-vo	Hmm, nahh, apt-get should be OK to use.	23:39
zerojay	I've seen it cause enough problems on my own tablet to swear it off.	23:39
cbx33	oh	23:40
cbx33	hmm	23:40
m-vo	The thing that is getting out of hand with OS2008 when you use apt-get is the new "domain system".	23:40
zerojay	Red pill mode shows that I have libbz2-1.0 installed.	23:40
zerojay	libbz2-1.0 - v1.0.3-1	23:40
m-vo	zerojay, care to elaborate a bit? I'm professionally interested in that kind of stuff.	23:40
cbx33	hmm	23:40
cbx33	apt-cache depends kagu	23:41
zerojay	cbx33: The -1.0 is a part of the package name.	23:41
cbx33	shows a different list to what app manager says	23:41
cbx33	i did dpkg -l \| grep libbz	23:41
zerojay	m-vo: Lots of stuff just stops working. App manager basically takes a dirt nap after a while.	23:41
m-vo	Hmm....	23:41
* m-vo has to lookup "dirt nap"...		23:42
cbx33	application pacakges missing: libbz2-1.0	23:42
zerojay	I'd help you if I could, but generally speaking, apt-get is a mess anyways, so I got what I expected.	23:42
zerojay	Had to reflash to be able to install anything with app manager again.	23:42
cbx33	I don;t want to use apt-get	23:42
cbx33	but i can't see where libbz2 is coming from	23:43
m-vo	Heh, "dirt nap", funny. :)	23:44
m-vo	Ok, app manager is basically another front end to the same library as apt-get.	23:44
m-vo	It could be that apt-get gets the system into a state that the app manager has never seen and can not cope with.	23:45
m-vo	That would be a bug in the app manager and should be fixed.	23:45
m-vo	I have never seen that, tho.	23:45
m-vo	On the other hand, it is of course possible to get your dependencies into such a mess that neither apt-get nor app manager can do their work.	23:46
m-vo	So, did you do anything brutal? Dpkg --force-all, etc?	23:46
cbx33	zerojay, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=101224&postcount=4	23:46
cbx33	surely that's not a sane thing to do	23:46
cbx33	that's old stuff isn't it	23:47
m-vo	I guess what I am asking is: did the app manager crash? hang? Or did just every installation fail with a cryptic error message?	23:47
zerojay	Nope, but it's been a while since I did it so I don't remember much about what i did or when. Suffice it to say, I won't bother with apt-get whatsoever.	23:47
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zerojay	There were times when it crashed. Other times it would say "unable to install ______"	23:48
cbx33	zerojay, could I see your sources.list?	23:48
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zerojay	cbx33: Hang on.	23:49
cbx33	thanks	23:49
m-vo	zerojay, sorry to hear that, but you shouldn't blame apt-get. Blame the app manager. It should cope. If stuff like this happens again, please file a bug.	23:49
zerojay	cbx33: /etc/apt/sources.list.	23:50
zerojay	m-vo: It's the same kind of stuff I used to see on Debian all the time... nothing new.	23:50
zerojay	cbx33: /etc/apt/sources.list?	23:50
zerojay	m-vo: I would have filed a bug if I had found a reproduction rule.	23:51
cbx33	yes	23:51
zerojay	cbx33: It's empty.	23:51
cbx33	eh??	23:51
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m-vo	Look into /etc/apt/sources.list.d/	23:51
PaulTardKC	Does anyone here use a Stowaway Bluetooth keyboard?	23:51
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pupnik	yes	23:54
zerojay	cbx33: http://paste.uni.cc/17701	23:54
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pupnik	works well. if you have to type lots of numbers, consider getting the sierra.	23:55
cbx33	thnks	23:55
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