IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2007-11-23

mgedminthe comment facility could really use a 'preview' button00:02
mgedminhow was I supposed to know it didn't escape '<'>00:02
timelessheh00:02
mgedminomg, ( ! ) Fatal error: Call to undefined function mgderrstr() in /usr/share/midgard/svn/midcom/trunk/src/net.nehmer.co00:03
doc|workwould it be a really evil question to ask if there's a working nfs client for maemo? :o00:03
timelessmaemo.org/community/wiki/howtonfs_06/00:03
czrneed for speed 0600:03
* czr hides & drives away00:04
doc|workthanks :)00:04
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doc|workwould mean less screwing about with sd cards for one00:04
mgedmindoc|work: there was once, iirc00:05
timelessczr?00:05
mgedminyou had to flash a custom kernel for nfs support, etc00:05
mgedminearly in the 770 days00:05
timelessis it ITOS2007, IT OS 2007, IT OS2007, ITOS 2007, or something else?00:05
mgedminI use sshfs nowadays00:05
mgedminbetter than mucking about with sd cards or usb cables00:06
timelessnfs is only good if for kicks, giggles, and stuck mounts00:06
timelessnfs?00:06
_Monkeywell, nfs is so much better00:06
doc|workmgedmin: that howto looks like it should work00:06
timeless_monkey forget nfs00:06
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot nfs00:06
timelessnfs is only good if for kicks, giggles, and stuck mounts00:06
timelessnfs is not so much better :)00:06
timelessdoc: feel free to edit the wiki to fix "Application manager" (capital A, lowercase m) on http://maemo.org/community/wiki/settingupnfs/ :)00:07
czrtimeless, nack00:07
czrback even00:07
p|<mgedmin> I use sshfs nowadays00:08
p|?00:08
p|does it work on n800 ?00:08
mgedmindepends on what you mean00:08
mgedminI use sshfs on my laptop to connect to the ssh server on my n80000:08
mgedminand then I can use whatever file manager I like to transfer files back and forth00:09
p|ha ok :)00:09
doc|worktimeless: I would if I didn't have to register :)00:09
p|i'd like to have also encfs... :)00:09
doc|workit'd be easy, copy to text editor, replace all, save. But the registration process? blegh :)00:09
timelessdoc: i think atm you can't even log in00:10
mgedminquake 2 runs on n800??00:10
* mgedmin didn't expect that00:10
timelessbut you have my sympathies00:10
doc|worktimeless: heh, nice00:10
timelesstechnically the code can be built to run elsewhere (we have ifdefs to deal w/ !hildon)00:10
timelessand there are people who have built it on something that wasn't maemo00:11
timelessotoh, i'm not sure i care00:11
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timelessthey were still an embedded system00:11
timelessand i see little reason to lump them away from us w/ Linux00:11
timelessgah, and i see no reason to lump us away from linux, but that's another story00:12
mgedminwhat's up with this URL: http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2007/games/?org_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page=4 ?00:14
mgedminorg_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page?00:14
doc|workheh00:14
kaltsione thing.. it's a bit short00:14
mgedminis midgard written in Java, or something?00:14
timelessphp, no?00:14
doc|workkaltsi: heh00:14
timelesswhich has the same sort of stack tracings00:14
mgedminbut anyway I wanted to ask: why is ScummVM listed twice on that page (once near the top, second time at the end)00:15
czrmgedmin, if you run into performance issues, I'd suggest you collect URLs and timestamps and such00:15
czrmgedmin, then add them to the bug whose number I forgot00:15
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czrkulve closed it already00:15
czrbut I think that'd be the best place to add information00:15
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timelessoh wow00:16
* timeless likes the nfs instructions for 200700:16
timelessthey manually install nfs :)00:16
czrlink?00:16
timelesshttp://maemo.org/community/wiki/settingupnfs/#3aa70fb4ecdace0c1b0ceec114d4da5400:16
* czr wants to chuckle as well00:16
sp3000heh, you said 3aa70fb4ecdace0c1b0ceec114d4da5400:16
czreww, md5 hashes in URLs. evil00:16
timelessaren't md5 hashes shorter?00:17
czrI don't think so00:17
czrbut I'm drunk..00:17
mgedminshorter than what?00:17
czrthan 16 characters00:17
czrhmm. that's longer that 16 characters00:17
czrthan even00:17
sp3000nah, that's md5sum size00:17
czr32 chars. md500:18
mgedmin128 bits, iirc00:18
sp300016 bytes, of course :)00:18
timelessNokia-N800-26:~/nfstmp# cd /lib/modules/current/00:18
timelessNokia-N800-26:~/nfstmp# ls -l00:18
sp3000which could confuse00:18
timelesswhat kind of magical shell is this?00:18
sp3000heh00:18
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kaltsihahah.. that's my baby :)00:19
czrthere's no lib/modules on the devices00:19
* czr pities the fools00:19
kaltsithere is /lib/modules after you install the modules00:19
czrthat doesn't count!00:20
czrthat's like.. cheating!00:20
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flatfaceOkay, my N800 just arrived today and I'm setting it up. I'm new to Maemo and all of this (but not Linux), so should I start messing with it and wait for 2008, or find and install 2008 now?00:20
czr"there's /lib/modules after you run mkdir /lib/modulers. har"-kind of cheating!00:20
timelessNokia-N800-26:~# apt-get install rx-34-kernel-nfs-modules00:20
czrflatface, there's no OS2008 for N80000:20
timelessczr: like that?00:20
pygiflatface: not yet :)00:21
czrtimeless, that also is cheating!00:21
flatfaceI've read that you can use 2008 from the N810 firmware.00:21
czranything that will create /lib/modules = cheating.. :-)00:21
kaltsisour grapes..00:21
timelessflatface: either way you're going to need to reinstall everything in a few weeks00:21
czrflatface, you can. but it doesn't mean that the firmware is meant for N800.00:21
timelesswhere few is something between 1 and 10000:21
timelessconservatively :)00:21
timelesspersonally, i'd probably go w/ 200800:21
kaltsidon't reveal the release dates like that00:21
flatfaceEh, true enough. I may as well fool around with it now :D00:22
timelesskaltsi: 100 weeks takes me to when?00:22
kaltsi1-100 weeks is too accurate :)00:22
czrkaltsi, 1-100 is pretty ok in my books :-)00:22
czrand how's going to trust timeless anyway!00:22
czrwho's even.00:22
kaltsihow who?00:22
czrmy typing is getting progressively worse :-)00:22
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timelessflatface: i'd enable redpill and ask Application manager to save all debs to an mmc00:23
flatfacebtw, just some general info: if you don't want to order it off of the Internet or anything, Ingram Micro is able to ship it. From Staples, it cost me $276.28 to special order it, no shipping cost. (CAD)00:23
timelessotherwise i tend to be very frustrated when things i've installed disappear00:23
flatfacetimeless: debs, as in .DEB (debian package format)?00:23
timelessyes00:23
flatfaceroger00:23
czrdebit evil bastards00:23
timelessflatface: of course, as a nokian, i would never recommend that you do this :)00:24
czrtimeless, nokeneeze00:24
flatfaceheh00:24
timelessand as someone who has reported about at least one really bad ui facing bugs in 200800:24
kaltsihmm the Application manageR has a small inconsistency with its graphics.. the menu icon and the TN icon have a + in the up-left corner but when the app man opens up there's a graphic with a tilted square in place of the +00:25
timelessespecially for n800 users00:25
timelessi wouldn't really want to install it00:25
flatfaceI own an E62... I'm disappointed at the speed of it, but from what I hear, it's not the best Nokia device. So I'm giving them another shot.00:25
czrkaltsi, let me check. SDK or dev?00:25
kaltsiboth00:25
timelesskaltsi: ain't visual refreshes grand?00:25
timelesssomeone forgot to refresh the inner artt00:25
kaltsiit's hard to miss :)00:25
flatfaceI think I'm gonna end up waiting for the real deal to come out00:25
timelessthere clearly wasn't a note saying "this is related to art elsewhere"00:25
timelessflatface: it's mostly ok unless you try using the finger keyboard :)00:26
czrkaltsi, you mean the large "image" when Am starts isn't the same as the icon?00:26
kaltsiyes00:26
timelessczr: yeah00:26
czrkaltsi, the icon also has an image of an CD for ..00:26
timelesskaltsi: file a bug :)00:26
czrhow on earth does a CD relate to IT?00:26
kaltsiczr CD where?00:26
czrgive me a sec00:27
timelessczr: what cd?00:27
czrI'll amaze you with another screenshot00:27
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/screenshot-tool-1.21/screenshot-tool.c00:27
timelessdefinitely doesn't handle help :)00:27
timelessbut if you don't include any args, it gives help :)00:27
kaltsitimeless I just fixed it.. releasing tomorrow :)00:27
timelesskaltsi: yeah yeah00:27
doc|workflatface: not bad, I got mine for 264 from ncix.com with a pricematch against directcanada.com (pickup so no delivery)00:27
timelessbut that was in my window and i forgot to paste it00:27
doc|work(+ taxes of course)00:27
* doc|work spits00:27
czrtimeless, kaltsi : http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/amazing-cd.png00:27
czrnotice the discrepancy there?00:28
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/hildon-application-manager-2.0.1/00:28
kaltsiczr ahh that's just in the sdk00:28
mgedmintimeless: how non-unixish; I'd expect a screenshot tool to spew binary data to stdout when run without args ;-)00:28
timelessczr: i think tha'ts non branded00:28
czrkaltsi, but you said BOTH00:28
czrdamn..00:28
_Monkeydamn is a very sad thing to say00:28
timelessmgedmin: not true00:28
kaltsiczr and I want to retract my previous statement.. I didn't check the sdk graphics.. just assumed they were same.. shame on me! :(00:28
timelesstimeless@swift:/tmp/microb-l10n% /sbin/zfs00:28
timelessmissing command00:28
timelessusage: zfs command args ...00:28
timelesswhere 'command' is one of the following:00:28
timeless--00:29
timelesson solaris, i get detailed usage instructions00:29
flatfacedoc|work: That's pretty good. I work at Staples, so I was able to sweet talk my GM into giving me a credit for my Palm TX (broken scren), plus I got a 10% associate discount.00:29
* czr spanks kaltsi with stereo-trouts00:29
kaltsiboo.. I don't even like fish :(00:29
timelesstimeless@swift:/tmp/microb-l10n% /sbin/zfs 2>&1|wc -l00:29
timeless      4400:29
czrkaltsi, yeah, the SDK graphics are quite different00:29
* czr notices the problem now00:29
doc|workflatface: nice! :)00:30
flatfaceOh, man... I'm at the main menu... Default skin and high resolution = sexy as hell00:30
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flatfaceI'm enjoying it already.00:31
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czrhell isn't sexy00:31
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czrhell = hot + blisters.00:31
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czrso mainly sweat and pain00:31
mgedminunless it froze over00:32
flatfaceMaybe a succubus from Hell?00:32
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czrmgedmin, that'd mean that a) nokia would've documented all the APIs + b) maemo.org wouldn't fall down all the time00:32
czrsomehow, I don't see that happening any time soon :-)00:33
mgedminor apple open-sourced the iPhone firmware00:33
czrit will all happen on the same day00:33
timelessinteresting00:34
timelesshildon-application-manager didn't make the chinook beta00:34
czryeah00:34
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czrit didn't00:34
czrI could've told you that00:34
timelesshrm00:34
timelesswell, my xref told me :)00:34
timelessbut this is odd00:34
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czrin 3.2 you had to install it separately00:34
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/find?string=app.*man.*debian%2Fcontrol&tree=chinook&hint=00:35
czrin 4.0 it's installed by default00:35
timelesscan you explain why there are 2 debian/ dirs?00:35
mgedminhow can one request removal of an obsolete project from the app catalog?00:35
czrwhich is an improvement, except that you can't really do anything with it in SDK without my EVIL HACKS.00:35
* timeless nods00:35
timelessbeen there, heard|read that00:35
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czrtimeless, 1_2.0.1 looks like an extra copy00:36
* timeless nods00:36
timelessafaik that's the only case of it though...00:36
czrbut it is 2.0.1, so it's supposed to be _twice_ as good as the previous one, right? ;-)00:37
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/find?string=%2F.*%2F.*%2Fdebian%2Fcontrol&tree=chinook&hint=00:37
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timelessok, wireless-tools has the same thing00:37
czrtimeless, one of them is under mircob00:37
czr:-)00:38
timelessthat's different00:38
czrthe hdparm under cdbs seems weird00:38
timelessthat one is actually a gecko package iirc00:38
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/microb-engine-1.0.3/mozilla/build/package/debian/CVS/00:38
czrthe one under defome looks really broken00:38
czrdefoma even00:38
* timeless nods00:38
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/%7Barch%7D/00:39
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timelessthe defoma one really scares me00:39
czr,,inode-sigs?00:39
czrargh00:39
* czr spanks whoever inveted that dirname00:39
czrinvented even00:39
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timelessinteresting00:40
czrtimeless, btw, mxr doens't want to show those files at all00:40
czrhttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/{arch}/,,inode-sigs/00:40
* timeless nods00:40
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suihkulokkiit's great linux desktop has mono theys days00:40
timelessnot sure what it doesn't like00:40
timelessthe files do /seem/ to exist00:40
timelessoh00:40
* czr sticks a "mono" up suihkulokkis private place00:40
timelesshrm00:40
suihkulokki...unfortunatly all the .net apps are hidden inside installshield exes that wine refuses to rin00:41
czrmono = skii'ing boot in finnish00:41
suihkulokki..including nokia map loader00:41
czrski'ing even00:41
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sp3000timeless: whoa, http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/{arch}/%2C%2Cinode-sigs/gus@inodes.org--debian%252525defoma--debian--1.0--base-0 works :D00:41
timelessczr: ok, clearly one of the characters upsets it00:41
timelesssp3000: so it was %?00:41
czrtimeless, { ?00:41
czrmaybe it's trying to do shell globs on it00:42
timelessno00:42
timelessit's url encoding issues00:42
timelessthe '%' char in the filename00:42
timelesshence sp3000's url worked00:42
czrbut that's just %%00:42
sp3000timeless: I seem to actually see the redirects go in the url, from %252525 to %2525 to %25 with that ;)00:42
czrheh00:42
timelesssp3000: yeah, that was whacky00:42
timelessno idea what drove that00:43
czrwhat do you people expect? it is a frigging red carnivore smiling at a post industrial town!00:43
czr(the mozilla.org logo)00:43
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czrand a dinosaur too00:43
czrthis is why I love perl so much:00:44
czr  26         my $y = $x;00:45
czr  27         $y =~ s/^\s*//s;00:45
czr  28         $y =~ s/\\\n//sg;00:45
czr  29         $y =~ s/\s*$//s;00:45
timelesswhich is that?00:45
* timeless doesn't really feel like searchig for y =~ s00:45
czrhttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/ifupdown-0.6.7osso/_darcs/current/debian/upgrade-from-0.5.x.pl00:45
Andy80some ascii picture :D00:45
suihkulokkiline noise?00:45
czr"some magical script whose author thought that perl is so sexy that no comments are really ever necessary"00:45
sp3000hm, that previous url isn't actually what worked, rather http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/%7Barch%7D/%2C%2Cinode-sigs/gus@inodes.org--debian%252525defoma--debian--1.0--base-000:45
sp3000er00:46
timelessczr: what i like is that the perl is actually reasonably highlighted :)00:46
sp3000ok, I'm confused00:46
* sp3000 blames chatzilla or something00:46
czrtimeless, kind of, yeah :-)00:46
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suihkulokkiyes, perl is great: http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html00:46
czrtimeless, at least it shows the $:s using a different color ;-)00:46
czrhttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/ident?i=m00:47
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czrchick on the _m_ on line 16 of: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/ifupdown-0.6.7osso/debian/upgrade-from-0.5.x.pl00:47
czrhah00:47
czrmxr <300:47
* timeless loves how many hits m has00:47
* sp3000 declines to try understanding why that linkifies ...erm00:48
czr_who_ in their right might defines _anything_ important as 'm'00:48
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/ident?i=m00:48
timelesserp00:48
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/dpkg-1.13.25.osso7/scripts/dpkg-source.pl#90800:48
sp3000if I launch or drag the urls, it doesn't work, but copy works :(00:48
* sp3000 worries00:48
timeless 908     my $m;00:48
timeless 912     $m= `md5sum`; $? && subprocerr("md5sum $f"); $m =~ s/\n$//;00:48
timeless 913     $m = readmd5sum( $m );00:48
timeless 914     $m eq $md5sum{$f} || &error(sprintf(_g("file %s has md5sum %s instead of expected %s"), $f, $m, $md5sum{$f}));00:48
sp3000(or, copy link location, which makes it weird)00:48
czrmy m? bleh :-)00:48
czrwhat happened to honest 'i'?00:48
khertan_lol totally unmaintainable. !00:49
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timelessm stands for md5sum00:49
timelessdon't you get it? :)00:49
czrtimeless, no it doesn't00:49
czrit stands for 'me be guruhaxor who no need comments lolor'00:49
suihkulokkiczr: it was renamed to justAnotherGenericVariableForTemporaryUsage=1;00:49
czrsuihkulokki, ahhh. thanks :-)00:49
doc|workback in my day loops were what happened when the tape got stuck! </oldPerson>00:50
* mgedmin wants to know what happens when $f == "`xclock&`"00:50
timelessczr: unfortunately mxr doesn't say how many people use m as identifiers :(00:50
czrdoc|home, yeah, that's why there are two separate works in finnish for "loop"00:50
timelessbut boy the list is long :)00:50
czrtimeless, or what their home address is!00:50
czrkiersio and silmukka00:50
doc|workczr: that and because you like to fuck up the foreigners00:50
czrkiersio (o + umlatus)00:51
czris the official form for programming loops00:51
czrof course no one uses it because it just sounds too sad00:51
doc|workjust for programming loops?00:51
czryeah00:51
* sp3000 hasn't even heard of it :O00:51
doc|workdo you have a department for creating finnish words?00:51
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doc|workIreland has one for the Irish language00:51
czrthere's an office of official finnish language things00:52
doc|workriomhaire = computer00:52
czr"Suomen Kielitoimisto"00:52
timelesssp3000: so what's the story w/ %s?00:52
doc|workiirc00:52
czrsilmukka is closests to "spool" really00:52
timelessis the problem that the % needs to be double escaped?00:52
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czrclosest even00:52
czror noose.00:52
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czrit's much older than programming, so doesn't really convey the action of "repeating"00:53
czrcause obviously there's just a limited number of times you can apply a noose to anything (esp. a person) etc00:53
timelesssp3000: oh !00:53
timelessit's the stupid {}s00:53
czrso, hence was born "kiersio"00:53
czrtimeless, told you so!00:53
czr<czr> timeless, { ?00:54
czr<czr> maybe it's trying to do shell globs on it00:54
sp3000timeless: what, do they trigger some magic?00:54
timelessit's not shell globs i don't think00:54
czrwell, told you so / 2.00:54
czrmaybe some printf formatting thingy in perl00:54
czror rather, print "foo" thingy00:55
timelessok, i really really don't get this00:55
* czr gladly pronounces that the universe is still safe. i > m: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/ident?i=i00:56
timelessheh00:56
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timelesswait00:57
timelesssp3000?00:57
czrtimeless, http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/mxrrr.png00:57
doc|workso, just as a matter of interest, why is it that nokia ships the machine with a kind of a crappy screen protector?00:57
czrdoc|work, so that you'd buy N900 or whatever comes out next?00:58
sp3000so the screen doesn't get things on it before the customer gets to put things on it, presumably00:58
timelessczr: you complaining about something?00:58
czrah that one, yes00:58
czrtimeless, yeah. the boxes00:58
sp3000unless you mean the pouch or such00:58
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timelessyeah figures00:58
czr"as member of flass f[box] [box]VB"00:58
doc|workczr: I'd probably do that anyway00:58
timelessthat's kinda how it encodes certain bits00:58
timelessit's clearly corrupt00:58
timelessi don't want ot think about that now00:58
timelessbut feel free to file a bug00:59
czrtimeless, but finland is the least corrupt country in the europe, how dare you!00:59
timelessdoes it happen in the other chinook (the older one) and sardine?00:59
doc|worksp3000: I meant the plastic, easily scratched, layer on the screen00:59
czrtimeless, just was wondering whether you knew about it or not :-)00:59
timelessczr: good thinkg timeless.justdave.net is hosted in the good old us of a :)00:59
timelessi've seen it occasionally, not recently00:59
czrhmm. right.00:59
czrwell, do an ident search on "i" the next time you need motivation to fix something :-)01:00
timeless(mind you, that reference came from swift which is on my desk here in finland)01:00
timelesssp3000: so....01:00
czrtimeless, so you're screwed..!01:00
timelessthe url doesn't seem to be stable01:00
timelessam i right?01:00
timelessis that an ff bug?01:01
czrheh. <3 mxr.. this is why I love C++: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/gcc-3.4-3.4.4cs2005q3.2/gcc-2005q3-2/gcc/testsuite/g++.dg/template/memfriend7.C01:01
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sp3000timeless: yeah, it's weird01:01
czrno wonder all symbian people end up in the loonies01:01
timelesssp3000: wanna file a bug?01:02
timeless(against minefield, not mxr!)01:02
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teprrrczr, looks like autogenerated file for me :P01:02
czrteprrr, it's not. it's a test-file01:02
timelessteprrr: those tend to be reduce testcases iirc01:02
czrbut still. any language that allows that kind of crap deserves to die01:03
teprrrczr, yes I Know that..01:03
czr_imho_ :-)01:03
teprrrbut just thinking that it could be autogenerated with some precompiler :p01:03
timelessczr: like finnish? :)01:03
teprrrs/could be/could have been/01:03
timelessactually, my first lesson is today01:03
infobotteprrr meant: but just thinking that it could have been autogenerated with some precompiler :p01:03
czrtimeless, sure.01:03
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teprrrs/with/by/01:04
infobotteprrr meant: but just thinking that it could be autogenerated by some precompiler :p01:04
czrtimeless, but you have to remember that I'm not really a finn :-)01:04
timelessyou're a russian or something?01:04
teprrrit's always nice when someone fixes your sentences.. :-)01:04
czrtimeless, I don't know. human mostly01:04
czrnever got a chance to establish a personal nationality01:04
czrso I just "am" most of the time.01:05
timelessand the rest of the time, you are not?01:05
czrthe rest of the time I read CPU and chip databooks and breathe binary. or drink alcohol. either of the two :-)01:06
sp3000timeless: oh, hm. yeah, I've seen minefield eat %escapes in its display, but this one's freaky01:06
sp3000I suppose the double-escape part is an mxr bug01:08
timelesswhat should mxr do?01:09
* timeless tries ie01:09
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sp3000fx2 acts quite a bit saner :)01:10
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/%7Barch%7D/,,inode-sigs/gus@inodes.org--debian%2525defoma--debian--1.0--patch-101:10
timelessworks fine in ie01:10
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sp3000right01:10
timelessit's also stable01:10
timelessso yes, please file a bug about minefield01:10
timelessit's definitely borked01:10
sp3000the jumping about seems to be a fx3 ui thing01:10
lardmanAh, cool, chap just contacted me and is interested in writing/helping with SBC (a2dp) dsp task01:10
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/defoma-0.11.7osso/{arch}/,,inode-sigs/gus@inodes.org--debian%2525defoma--debian--1.0--patch-101:10
timelessalso works in ie01:10
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timelessok, last half of the question01:11
sp3000that explains why it acted differently when the url was dispatched not from the location bar01:12
timelesswhat url is the correct url?01:12
sp3000%25 I believe would be01:12
timelessok01:12
timelessso the problem isn't the encoder01:12
timelessit's the decoder01:12
Tiekutimeless, crzm you helped me earlier by recomending i use rcS.d to run a script at boot. I'm given that a go. looking at other scripts in the folder they start with #!/bin/sh01:12
Tieku -e. do you know what the -e is for and if i need it?01:12
sp3000              -e      Exit  immediately if a simple command (see SHELL GRAMMAR above) exits with a non-zero sta‐01:13
timelessno :)01:13
sp3000                      tus.  The shell does not exit if the command that fails is part of the command list  imme‐01:13
sp3000                      diately following a while or until keyword, part of the test in an if statement, part of a01:13
sp3000                      && or ││ list, or if the command’s return value is being inverted via !.  A trap  on  ERR,01:13
* czr thinks now is the prefect time to retire01:13
sp3000                      if set, is executed before the shell exits.01:13
* sp3000 wins at wrapping01:13
timelessheh01:13
* mgedmin teaches sp3000 about pastebins01:13
czrwith a trout mgedmin01:13
czrtrout is imporant01:14
Tiekuthanks sp300001:14
* sp3000 would just wrap the trout badly and paste it back01:14
zerojayFriends don't let friends root while drunk.01:14
mgedminoh crap, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/xmodmap/ has no install link01:14
* mgedmin needs xmodmap and xev01:14
zerojayAnd I don't mean it in that Aussie "rooting = fucking" sort of way.01:15
czr"rootme"01:15
* czr hides and runs01:15
zerojayYeah, I always kind of laughed at that.01:15
czrto sleep01:15
czraye. night all ->01:15
kaltsimgedmin: xev is in the sdk repository x-debug-tools package01:15
mgedminat least the homepage link is sane (doesn't point to upstream)01:16
mgedminkaltsi: thanks01:16
mgedminbut what about xmodmap?01:16
kaltsimaybe you can port it and put it to the extras repo? :)01:16
* mgedmin should01:17
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sp3000dammit01:19
* sp3000 tries to file the bug but can't manage to spell broken01:19
sp3000hey, third time's the charm01:19
sp3000borken? broekn?01:19
zerojayb9rked\01:20
zerojayoops01:20
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mgedminbroked01:23
mgedminaugh!01:23
lardmangeborken surely01:25
timelesssp3000: ok, i think i might have found the problem, maybe01:29
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sp3000https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40503801:34
sp3000it's late, so I didn't try to make sense about how it should work and why, except for the round-trip part which should be obvious01:35
sp3000but presumably it should only screw around with characters that can be displayed without escaping, presumably there's some sort of anti-obfuscation of canonicalization deal there01:36
sp3000s/of/or/01:36
infobotsp3000 meant: but presumably it should only screw around with characters that can be displayed without escaping, presumably there's some sort or anti-obfuscation of canonicalization deal there01:36
mgedminsp3000: what firefox version is this?01:38
mgedminI can't reproduce with ffox 2.0 on linux01:38
sp3000mgedmin: why, the future01:38
sp3000(Version: [Trunk|v]01:38
sp3000)01:38
mgedmincool01:38
sp3000cool, I didn't mention any specific version in comment 001:39
* sp3000 needs a nap, clearly :)01:39
timelessi'm still mucking w/ mxr01:39
timelessi'll stop shortly01:39
* mgedmin tries to weigh the potential amusement value and the work needed to check out and build mozilla trunk01:39
timelessoh01:39
* timeless gets it01:39
sp3000mgedmin: nightly builds01:39
sp3000unless you specifically want build amusement ;)01:40
timelesssp3000: ok, got it01:40
timelesshttp_wash is doing me in01:40
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mgedminif someone ported gnome-open to maemo, would gnome-open http://some.url work?01:40
* mgedmin suspects the answer is "no"01:40
* mgedmin tries to remember the 130-character long dbus-send command line to open a url in the browser01:41
* mgedmin fails01:41
lopzhola01:41
sp3000dbus-send --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser --dest=com.nokia.osso_browser com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url 'string:urlurl'01:41
mgedminthanks01:43
mgedminthere should be a shell script01:43
mgedminbuilt-in01:43
doc|workx-chat on maemo, does is there anyway to get it to do url handling like it does on the desktop?01:44
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timelesssp3000: ok, i'm very confused02:03
timelessif the url bar says %2502:04
timelessthe wire seems to only send %02:04
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sp3000from whom?02:04
sp3000I hope you're not using something crazy like fx302:04
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sp3000I think it eats one 25 on input and another on display :)02:10
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pupnikdate02:20
sp3000pe 23.11.2007 02:20:42 +020002:20
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pupnik:/02:24
pupnikhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=UZlVotSGOto   ITT's Reggie with jolly candy-like N81002:27
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GNUtonHi02:42
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pupnikmoo02:45
penguinbaitbahhhhahhahah02:45
* doc|work ponders dinner, steak or lamd02:46
doc|work*lamb02:46
* doc|work loads rifle02:46
penguinbaituh er, bah humbug02:47
penguinbaitducks02:47
* pupnik runs02:47
doc|workoh, duck, now you're clouding the issue :/02:47
doc|work*blam* lamb it is02:47
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GNUtonpenguinbait: have you compiled Qt4 for maemo?02:51
penguinbaitI was working on it, but I was having issues02:51
GNUtonpenguinbait: i've packaged it! :)02:52
penguinbaitsweet, I will be happy to use your when building KDE402:52
penguinbaitwill it be in garage, or can you send me a link?02:52
GNUtonit will be in garage soon..02:53
penguinbaitnice, 4.3.2?02:53
GNUtonyeah! :)02:53
penguinbaitare you building qt apps for maemo?02:54
GNUtonno, i'm a kde developer...02:55
GNUtonand i'ven't got a maemo device yet..02:55
gw280GNUton: cool, what do you hack on in KDE?02:55
GNUtoni'm working on kblogger!02:55
GNUtonkblogger for KDE402:55
penguinbaitSo are you poring KDE4 for maemo02:55
penguinbaitporting02:55
_Monkeywell, porting is http://test.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_porting_an_existing_application.html02:55
GNUtonpenguinbait: i'hope02:56
penguinbaitstupidmonkey02:56
penguinbaitI just finished 3.5.802:56
penguinbaitwith kdepim, koffice and cups02:56
penguinbait338qt02:56
GNUtonkblogger for KDE4 it's really powerful02:56
GNUtonbut it's not complete yet.. it doesn't manage thumbnail...02:56
penguinbaitI had kblogger in the 3.5.8 version02:56
GNUtonkblogger for KDE3 sucks!02:57
penguinbaitah, I never used it02:57
gw280GNUton: ah02:57
penguinbaitCan you tell me what you did to compile qt432 in scratchbox?03:00
penguinbaitWhen I tried it blows up03:00
penguinbaitdid you patch?03:00
GNUtonpenguinbait: i've patched the code, and i've modified the package..03:01
GNUtonrules, control.. ecc...03:01
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penguinbaitso you will be building KDE4 and all its prereq's and putting them in garage?03:02
GNUtonpenguinbait: i hope!03:05
penguinbaitWell its very good to have you03:06
GNUton:)03:07
penguinbaitI am not a developer at all, so If I can make it run and printand work pretty darn good, I can only imagine what someone who knows what they are doing, can do :)03:07
GNUtoni'm happy to see other people that want's run kde/qt apps on maemo! :)03:08
pupnikpenguinbait is our point man in that department03:08
pupniki hope we can someday do multiple-kernels on the device03:09
penguinbaitI also never put anything together but giat tarballs, so easy installation would be a welcome to many03:09
penguinbaits/giat/giant/03:09
infobotpenguinbait meant: I also never put anything together but giant tarballs, so easy installation would be a welcome to many03:09
penguinbaitme too pupnik03:09
pupniktarball + shellscript is a good way03:09
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penguinbaitI am so happy about the 2GB on the 810, its just an untar and your done03:10
pupniki'd like a "oh you'd like to try out a different OS on your device?  which partition?  ok here we goo..."03:10
penguinbaitmight need to find somewhere to put your maps though03:10
penguinbaityup03:10
pupnikinstalling the multi-boot loader changed my 'tablet life'03:11
pupnikback up partitions, screw around with things, restore them03:12
pupnikit's amazing how the N810 release announcement has slowed time.03:12
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penguinbaithehe03:12
penguinbaitI want my n810 and the last month has been crawling by03:13
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|Rhaha indeed :|03:13
penguinbaitI actually accomplished more in the last month, than I did in the last year messing with KDE03:14
penguinbaitI just want a device to play with it on now03:15
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captlloydpenguinbait: Yeah, same here03:42
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captlloydI've had mine on order for almost 4 weeks03:42
captlloydIt should be here tomorrow.... hopefully..03:42
penguinbaityour way ahead of me03:43
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pupnikstrange how motivation to work on things waxes and wanes04:02
pupniki should keep track of my productive time and graph it04:02
timelessi track people by http access logs :)04:02
timelesshrm, i haven't done that in a while04:02
pupnik"An unexamined life is not worth living." - Socrates04:03
lopzbrb04:05
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lopzre04:17
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l7arr04:45
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doc|failhey, how do you fast forward under mplayer? fast seek does nothing05:11
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dick-richardsonI received my n810, but it doesn't appear I can install anything I was using my n800 for (ssh, gpodder, gnumeric, vnc viewer, gpe calendar, openvpn, or nano). Do they need to be ported, ie...I just need to use the n800 yet for a while?05:12
K`zanLast  I looked there were 26 apps for 2008 and 191 for 2007, so yes, it might be a while :).05:13
K`zanI upgraded my n800 to 2008 and in reasonably short order flashed it back to 2007.05:13
K`zanJust takes time to get everything ported.05:14
doc|failheh05:14
* doc|fail wants cpu throttling :/05:14
K`zanDon't pick on me doc|fail  :-).05:14
doc|faili'd probably have done the same :)05:14
dick-richardsonalright, having used debian and its derivitives for a while, it's odd not being able to apt-get dist-upgrade05:15
K`zan2008 is going to be nice, I eagerly await for the n800 release.05:15
dick-richardsonwill it allow for dist-upgrades, do you know?05:15
doc|failso, mplayer ideas anyone?05:16
K`zanNot sure it can flash itself while it is running, probably not.05:16
K`zan22 minutes to CHOW!05:16
* K`zan is starving :-)05:16
dick-richardsonos2008 is REALLY nice. great improvements. after 3rd party app support is there it will be dominate05:16
K`zanYep, agree.05:16
K`zan2007 is certainly not shabby though.05:17
dick-richardsonno, it really isn't05:17
dick-richardsoncan you flash '07 onto the n810? that way I could use my new hardware with my old apps and sell my 800 off05:18
dick-richardsonprobably not i'd guess05:18
K`zanDunno, I seemed to have some odd problems with 2008 on the n800, but it COULD have just been me and my current level of ignorance.05:18
dick-richardsonthe gps maps included don't have a great deal of detail for where I live (NE corner of South Dakota)05:20
[pablo]is there no osso-screenshot-tool on OS2008?05:20
doc|faildick-richardson, openstreetmap based?05:20
dick-richardsondoc|fail: I don't believe so...not sure where they're getting their maps05:22
dick-richardsonlemme look05:22
doc|faildick-richardson, if it's openstreetmap, then yeah, they're lacking here too, and i'm in downtown vancouver :)05:23
doc|failit's wiki-like so they'll get better05:23
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doc|failmplayer anyone? :/05:30
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K`zan_800What do I do about this?:07:01
K`zan_800[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~] > fakeroot apt-get install maemo-explicit07:01
K`zan_800I may have screwed up and installed that without a target selected...07:01
K`zan_800Just start over from scratch (re-install scratchbox and the sdk) when I am less tired :)?07:02
K`zan_800Probably a good idea.07:03
K`zan_800Never mind :).07:03
K`zan_800Night all.07:03
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captlloydAnyone got their N810 yet this week?07:03
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Andy80hi all07:26
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khertan_ /users08:01
khertan_oups ... ww08:01
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pupnik_there is a cups WIP project08:01
Khertanyes !!! There is now a wmware for the final chinook sdk08:02
Khertan!08:02
pupnik_good08:02
timelesswmware?08:06
pupnik_guessing khertan is german08:06
pupnik_oops, no sorry :)08:06
* timeless doesn't follow :)08:06
pupnik_germans pronounce 'w' the way english speakers pronounce 'v'08:07
K`zanKhertan: Where, I'm muddling through setting it up in a vm and am pretty sure I screwed it up :-(.08:07
timelesspupnik: but he's in france :)08:08
timelessand has a name that could be french or italian, but not german :)08:08
lopzbye08:11
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K`zan_800Sure would be nice to have a vm appliance for the 2008 sdk.08:12
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K`zan_800Grrr.  Did anyone post a url for the vm appliance for the sdk?08:16
captlloydNo08:17
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K`zan_800Found some but which ones they are wasn't clear, going to look more.08:18
K`zanLooks like they are for 2006 and 2007 :-(.08:21
K`zan_800Enough, night all.08:23
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Khertanpupnik_: i 'm french ... but my old girl friend was german ... maybe that :)08:25
Khertanhttp://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/08:26
Khertanhere there is a vmware image with the chinook sdk ... (i'm still downloading it)08:26
pupnik_sure it contains chinook sdk?  or just installer script?08:29
Khertanhum ... not sure08:29
Khertanit said : This release (0.4, "Not So Fat") is loaded with a lot of goodies: Maemo 4.0 (Chinook) and Maemo 3.2 (Bora) with Nokia Binaries Installer08:30
Khertanso i ll know once the download ll be finished08:30
Khertanonly a fucking torrent !08:31
Khertanthere are now a download by http08:31
Khertanbye ... must go to work :)08:32
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konttorisweet. thanks for the latest vmware image tip08:42
* konttori is downloading now08:42
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* konttori will be seeding for the rest of the day08:43
* timeless goes back to haunting konttori08:43
konttoricool. but what kind of haunting?08:44
konttoriCasper the ghost type of haunting or something else?08:45
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pupnik_thx for seeding08:57
timelesskonttori: are you on site?09:01
timelesswhat's neil macleod's irc nick?09:02
timelessoh brother09:02
* timeless kicks nokia.com09:02
timelessit linked me to the 2007 version of ukmp09:02
timelessthat's going to work well09:02
timelessX-Fade->IsSleeping()09:03
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rothielHi guys :)09:32
czrmornink09:34
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solmumahadobraj ranicy09:49
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timelessmilhouse: ping09:55
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timelesshrm10:16
timelessdid someone file a bug asking for os2008 to be to the right of os2007?10:16
X-Fadetimeless: Why would you want that?10:17
timelessbecause numbers in English increase from left to right10:17
timelessit's not logical for them to do otherwise10:18
timelessit's counterintuitive10:18
X-FadeThe most relative one first?10:18
timelessno10:18
timelesssmallest10:18
X-FadeRelevant..10:18
timelessnope10:18
timelessyou can do:10:18
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timeless200810:18
timeless200710:18
timeless200610:18
timelessor10:18
timeless2006 2007 200810:18
timelessyou can not do10:18
timeless2008 2007 200610:18
X-FadeI simply don't agree ;) Newest first seems logical to me..10:19
X-FadeBut file a bug, let Quim decide..10:19
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X-FadeI have just filed one for marking all Nokia provided applications as such..10:20
timelessBug 2367 Submitted10:25
_MonkeyBug 2367 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=236710:25
timelessx-fade: i looked a bit closer, the problem is probably partly because the colors are bad10:25
timelessnot enough contrast, shapes too similar10:25
timelessit'd probably have been less of a problem for 2007/2008/2009 :o10:25
timelesshrm10:25
timelessno, that's not a better set10:25
timeless2001/2002/2003 :)10:26
X-Fadetimeless: We had different colors for each OS at first. But that was rejected.10:26
* timeless nods10:26
timelessi'm not suggesting you use colors10:26
timelessmerely noting that the colors contribute to the problem10:26
timelessthe absolute lack of brandability in the numbers is a bigger problem10:26
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timelessthe numbers 2, 3 and 4 would work better though :)10:26
timelessfwiw, i'm bugging Quim and others about the os name right now10:27
timeless(context is in scrollback/logs)10:27
X-Fadetimeless: Good luck. Nokia is actively promoting that name ;)10:27
timelesswhich?10:28
timelessos2006?10:28
_Monkeyi think os2006 is the second ABI (armel) for the Nokia 77010:28
timelessos2007?10:28
_Monkeyos2007 is soon to be obsolete, replaced by OS2008 on the N800 and N810.10:28
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timelessos2008?10:28
_Monkeyos2008 is really fast10:28
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timelesswow10:28
timelesswe went from valuable to noise in two steps10:28
timelessbtw, your alternate text sucks :)10:29
timelessimage: http://maemo.org/midcom-serveattachmentguid-ad948dee8c9011dcb47d619b18f5a144a144/thumbnail_bomberman_game10:29
timelessalternate text: Click on the screenshot to see a larger one!10:29
timelessthat's not valid alternate text10:29
timelessdo you have minefield/firefox?10:29
X-FadeYep.10:30
timelessright click on an item in http://maemo.org/downloads/OS200710:30
timelesschoose properties10:30
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning10:38
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pupnikhi AD-N770  :)10:40
pupniksomeday i hope to get around to learning about your NetHack10:41
timelessoh wierd10:41
timelessok second half10:41
timelesstools>options (or edit>preferences?) > content > click exceptions... by load images automatically10:41
timelessenter maemo.org and click block10:41
timelessclick close, close10:41
timelessreload the page10:42
* timeless has no idea why the alt text doesn't appear10:42
X-Fadetimeless: Check the source ;)10:42
timelessanyway, the message "Click on the screenshot to see a larger one!"10:42
timelessisn't professional :)10:42
timelessx-fade: evil css?10:43
X-Fadetimeless: Nah, css can't change the alt text ;)10:43
* timeless gives up10:44
* timeless needs sleep10:44
timelesswhat's the answer?10:44
_Monkeythe answer is 42. but what is the question10:44
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timelesscurses foiled by a bot is <reply> yep, haha, get some sleep10:44
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L0cutusbuongiorno10:46
doc|homebuona notte :)10:46
JaffaMorning, all10:47
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* timeless curses foiled by a bot10:50
_Monkeyyep, haha, get some sleep10:50
pupnikNokia N810 selling for 275 euro.  in stock.  In the USA10:50
Jaffa275eur in .us?10:50
timelesshttp://www.google.com/search?q=275+eur+in+usd&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a10:51
pupnikYes, $409. dollar is at 0.6725 euro now10:51
timeless275 Euros = 405.4875 U.S. dollars10:51
timelesshttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=qBU&q=1+eur+in+usd&btnG=Search10:51
timeless1 Euro = 1.4745 U.S. dollars10:51
JaffaBut the US hasn't joined the Eurozone yet ;-)10:51
timelessthe dollar is plummetting10:51
timelessjaffa: is the us elligible at this point?10:51
timelessdon't you need a stable currency? :)10:51
JaffaGood point :)10:52
timelessjust take your EU visa w/ you10:52
timelesspay from your Euro noted bank10:52
dpb_it was 1.48something yesterday10:52
timelessdpb: so the dollar gained a bit of ground?10:52
dpb_a tiny bit it seems10:53
* Jaffa is in .uk - no euro here either. But at least I've got a euro cash machine just around the corner from my office. Very handy when visiting the inlaws who live just opposite the UK end of the Channel Tunnel :)10:53
timelessis that legal?10:53
devtimeless: no, it was over 1.50 for some short time this morning10:54
timelesshey, how's the euro doing against the pound?10:54
timelessafaicr the pound has always been 2 to 1 against the dollar10:55
timelessand it still seems fairly close10:55
timelesswhich to me kinda implies the euro is gaining against it, am i wrong?10:55
czrprobably there's transfer from USD to EUR going on10:55
czrOPEC and China to blame. they're fed up by USD sliding down. which is ironic, since now it will slide down even faster :-)10:56
czrand good morning all10:56
pupnikanybody know where the N810s are being produced?10:56
czrpupnik, in my basement10:56
timelessthe protos were made in finland10:56
timelessdunno about the real devices10:56
timelesshttp://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/EUR/graph120.html10:57
timelessdoesn't show 1.510:57
pupnikamazed at how cheap they're selling in the USA10:57
timelesspupnik: it's not cheap10:57
timelesscheap is $29910:57
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timelessanything over that is "expensive"10:57
timelessand for the time being european companies can't afford to break 1x=1x markings10:57
timelessit'd mean losing the market to american companies10:57
timelessthat's the funny part10:58
* czr considers helping the US economy by buying a macmini to bring back with him10:58
timelesswhile it hurts some parts of the us10:58
czrapple uses the evil 1=1 ratio10:58
devtimeless: was in the news here around 2h ago10:58
timelessit helps american tech firms10:58
timelesssince they can sell to europe cheaper :)10:58
timelessor make more profit, whichever10:58
timeless(of course, that assumes that supplies don't reprice, but i think atm they aren't)10:59
pupnikthis situation will really hurt germany10:59
czrgermany is doing pretty well still, last I hear10:59
czrheard even10:59
timelessyou mean poor german automotive industry?10:59
timelessor do you mean fr/de airbus?10:59
* timeless looks for a tear to shed10:59
pupnikthem too10:59
* timeless decides not to find one10:59
* czr gives one10:59
timelesssorry, airbus is state sponsored11:00
timelessit does not get any sympathy11:00
czreverything is state sponsored11:00
* timeless actually thinks the product is inferrior too11:00
czrthe food you eat is state sponsored :-)11:00
czrit'd be interesting if all of the sudden there'd be exactly same taxation and other things all over the world in all countries, and all forms of subsidies would be banned11:01
czrI wonder what would happen11:01
timelessthat's not sufficient11:01
devpupnik: no, that will have little to none imapct11:01
timelessyou need regulation and enforcement11:01
timelessw/o that, the chinese still have unfair advantages11:01
timelessthey can use lead paint on toys11:02
timelessor add the lead paint later11:02
czrtrue.11:02
* czr proposes a single dictatorship to govern all earth11:03
czrthat way same rules would apply to everyone :-)11:03
devthe USD is overrated for a long time, and was more or less only on that level cause it is(was) the currency for oil and other federal banks bought USD to support it11:03
timelessdev: you're an ecconomist?11:04
timelesss/cc/c/11:04
infobottimeless meant: dev: you're an economist?11:04
devtimeless: not really, but looked at it in some detail for some "talk" a gave a few monts ago11:04
dev+h11:04
pupnikM3 growing at ca. 14% apr right now11:05
timelessm3?11:05
pupnika measure of the dollar supply11:05
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devif you are interested in understanding that USD vs. EUR thing you need to start with Bretton Woods11:05
pupniki have studied this11:06
timelesspupnik: but thehy stopped publishing m3 in march, no? :)11:06
devpupnik: nice11:07
sv-enIs it complicated to run  and manage a own repository? Any docs out there?11:08
timelessmaintaining a repository can be easy or hard11:08
timelessdepending on how much you're managing and how fast it's changning11:08
* timeless should have slept last night11:08
JaffaBut it's almost certainly better to use extras-devel and/or extras (from a user point of view)11:09
timelessyes11:09
sv-enOnly my own packages11:09
timelessmore repositories are bad11:09
timelessthat way lies the dark side11:09
Jaffasv-en: no-one else if ever going to use them?11:09
timelessor something11:09
timeless:)11:09
Jaffatimeless: :)11:09
sv-enPerhaps, who knows it yet11:09
timelessoh, that was march of 2006 :)11:10
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sv-enI ve tested os2008... its crap. menu to large and the browser breaks the websites layout often. No realplayer (yet)...11:13
timelessno realplayer?11:13
timelessconfused11:13
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timelessMedia player supports some real audio/video formats11:13
timelessand what web sites?11:13
devtimeless: yes, last year, since 18months the fed doesn't tell anymore how much presidents they print ;-)11:14
timelessand are you using fit width to view?11:14
sv-enIt said unsupportes codec with my os07 bookmarks11:14
timelesssv-en: bugs.maemo.org11:14
_Monkeysomebody said bugs.maemo.org was configured to use UTF8, and i've recoded all the people i could find who were using ISO-8859-111:14
timelessif it doesn't handle .. oh brother11:14
Jaffasv-en: if something worked before, doesn't work now and hasn't changed at the other end, raise a bug (or two)11:14
timeless_monkey forget bugs.maemo.org11:14
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot bugs.maemo.org11:14
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timelessbugs.maemo.org is \where people should report problems about software relating to maemo core applications11:15
timelessbugs.maemo.org!11:15
_Monkeyrumour has it bugs.maemo.org is where people should report problems about software relating to maemo core applications11:15
timelessgood bot11:15
sv-enIam back on os07, but if i find time ill bug it11:15
timelessif you don't, you're unsubstantiated rumor mongling11:15
timelessfudd isn't good :)11:16
timelessif you have urls you remember not working, you can share them here11:16
timelesssomeone will gladly test and help you report the bug11:16
timelessno requirement for you to reflash11:16
timelessactually, maybe elmer was good11:16
JaffaNot particulalry at hunting wabbits11:16
* czr was impressed with the speed that 2348 was fixed11:16
czrtook 20 hours!11:17
czrslightly less even11:17
timelessczr: it doesn't say what it's for :!11:17
timeless    Latest releases11:17
timeless        * maemo 4.0 'chinook'11:17
timeless        * maemo 3.2 'bora' for Nokia N800 development11:17
timeless        * maemo 2.2 'gregale' for Nokia 770 development11:17
czrah, true :-)11:17
czrI'll amend the bug :-)11:17
timeless:)11:17
JaffaWoohoo, I'm on the front page of http://maemo.org/profile/list now. Just need to maintain that until the (N810 + x) gets released ;-)11:18
timelesshrm, i'm not11:18
JaffaOf course, maybe I shouldn't be holding my breath for the N810 either... :-/11:18
timelessgah11:18
Jaffatimeless: which seems odd with all your bugzilla activity and helping on IRC11:18
timelessthere i am11:19
timelesspage 611:19
timeless-, timeless11:19
* timeless sighs11:19
czrpage 8 for me11:20
* czr has only bad karma11:20
suihkulokkiirc destroys spermcells^Wproductivity11:21
suihkulokki-> bad karma11:21
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czralthough, bad karma is still better than bad korma.11:21
* timeless files another bug11:21
timelessbugzilla_reported 811:22
timelesswhat kind of score is that?11:22
czrinfinite with 90 degree rotation = bestest.11:22
czrwas that a trick question? :-)11:22
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timelessReporterNumber of bugs11:25
timelessquim.gil@nokia.com12811:25
timelessjarmo.tikka@nokia.com9411:25
timelesstommi.komulainen@nokia.com5111:25
timelesstimeless@gmail.com5011:25
timelessi'm #411:25
timelesshow can i have such a bad karma?11:25
JaffaEmail addresses now lining up?11:26
timeless?11:26
Jaffas/now/not/11:26
infobotJaffa meant: Email addresses not lining up?11:26
timelessit'd be 0 otherwise, no?11:26
timelessthere's only 1 timeless in each, and they're all the same11:26
JaffaHmm.11:26
timelessok, how does one search for a user?11:27
timelesswhat's a "listd"?11:27
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JaffaI don't think you can search, you can just go directly to profiles11:29
timelessBug 2370 Submitted11:29
_MonkeyBug 2370 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=237011:29
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timelessok, http://maemo.org/profile/view/jaffa11:30
timelessbugzilla_reported  3211:30
czrdamn, you stole 70 from me!11:30
czroh hmm. never mind, forgot I was appending a bug instead of filing a new one :-)11:30
timelessReporterNumber of bugs11:30
timelessandrew@bleb.org1411:30
timelessyou could have filed a new bug :)11:30
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czrI decided against it11:31
czrsince I want only bad karma11:31
timelessheh11:31
czrbut yes, I could've :-)11:31
timelessjaffa: this is no fair11:31
czr( 2369 )11:31
_Monkey236911:31
Jaffatimeless: very odd. I think bugzilla_reported is misnamed (although there's no explanation as to what any of the categories are), I *think* it really means "bugzilla participation/usage"11:31
timelessum, ok...11:31
timelesshrm, i get points for favorites and burries?11:32
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* timeless needs to go bury some things11:32
timelessnah, first i'll file a bug on planet11:32
timelessx-fade/jaffa: ok, i don't get it11:35
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timelessthe link sizes are 0px x 0px11:36
timelessfor fav / bury11:36
* Jaffa 's not looked at the HTML, I assumed it was of the form <a href="..."><img src="fav" width="16" height="16" /></a>11:37
timelessstrange11:38
timelessit works on my tablet11:38
czrtimeless, 2369 :-)11:38
timeless"Task navigator", "from which to pick"11:39
czrnot Task Navigator, right?11:40
timelessright11:40
czrwas thinking about that, but wasn't really sure11:40
timelessi suppose i could try to figure out how to prove that11:40
timelessthe style says only first words11:40
timelessbut that second word doesn't apear anywhere11:40
czrI think it's the same issue as with "Application damager"11:41
timelessyes11:41
timelesss/referrred to/referenced/11:41
timelessgah11:41
czrI know my language sucks in the bug-reports11:42
czrI don't spent too much time writing them anyway11:42
timelessok, lunch, then Finnish lessons11:42
czradded the TN issue11:42
timelesshave an interesting weekend11:42
czrtimeless, oh, you won't be around 1:35?11:42
timelessi will11:43
timelesscall11:43
czrah, ok. I'll ping you then :-)11:43
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czrdamn all this i18n stuff is scary. my emails contain chinese nowadays!11:57
czrand the glyphs are pretty too. except for numerals.11:57
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GNUtonHi12:11
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bedboianyone knows where mpeg2dec gst plugin is located?12:13
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GNUtonbedboi: whereis mpeg2dec12:17
GNUtonor dpkg -S mpeg2dec12:17
bedboiit should be in plugins-ugly12:18
bedboii'll try to port them to os200812:19
GNUton:)12:22
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czrbedboi, is there also plugins-pretty? :-)12:26
bedboi:)12:26
* bedboi crosses his fingers12:27
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* czr crosses them too12:31
czrpair coding taken to the next level. the first person will code with fingers crossed why the other makes sure that they're crossed all the time.12:32
* L0cutus need a port of gnucash to Os2007/Os2008 :)12:33
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GNUtonCiao L0cutus! :)12:37
GNUtonL0cutus: you can try to port it yourself! :P12:38
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L0cutuslol12:38
GNUtonL0cutus: :)12:38
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* L0cutus is lacking of know how :)12:41
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mgedminisn't it time to retire http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationCatalog (delete all content, replace it with a link to maemo.org/downloads)?13:15
mgedminare there any apps in there that aren't present in the app catalog?13:16
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trickiecd ..13:18
trickieoops :)13:18
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lardmanhttp://www.ebuyer.com/product/135027 cut down internet tablet over gpsr13:34
gla55_ah that one13:35
gla55_20h per month for "no charge" isn't that much13:36
gla55_considering you pay for the connection with buying the device13:36
lardmanI'd never seen anything like it13:36
gla55_proxyservers sit in between too13:36
gla55_saw a review for it somewhere...13:37
gla55_hmmmmmm13:37
gla55_maybe on el reg13:37
lardmansponsored links13:37
lardmansupposed to be part of its revenue model13:37
gla55_after reading the review i wasnt that sure that they'd be around for few years..13:38
gla55_it's like a poor mans e9013:38
lardmantrue, in which case I suppose one could stick a new sim card in13:38
lardmanyeah, with no voice13:38
gla55_lardman: the sw inside probably wont workout without their proxy servers13:38
gla55_that re-enc pics etc to cut down on traffic13:39
gla55_and make easier to render13:39
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lardmanI was looking to see what the actual hw is, but can't see any mention, and whether anyone's tried to hack it yet13:39
lardmananyway, I don't think it'll knock the N810 off its perch13:40
gla55_hehe13:40
gla55_certainly not13:40
gla55_the hw is probably quite light13:40
gla55_cheap13:41
gla55_dunno if parts of the browser tech come from opera or such13:41
lardmansupposed to do flash, etc.13:41
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gla55_hmm? it is?13:41
gla55_never seen mention of that13:41
gla55_and the compression tech is opera mini-ish13:42
lardmanhttp://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/07/13/preview_datawind_pocketsurfer_2/page3.html13:42
lardmanDatawind said its browser can handle all the key webpage components - ActiveX, Flash, PDF, Java, JavaScript, SSL security and so on - and HTML elements like frames, and while we didn't have an opportunity to try all these out last night, we can confirm some of them do work and work well.13:42
gla55_i find that a bit of a stretch13:43
gla55_activex especially13:43
gla55_..13:43
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lardmanmight be pocketpc based13:44
lardmando they do activex?13:44
gla55_not that i know, properly at least13:44
gla55_maybe some special for-pocket-ie version of activex..13:44
gla55_googling for pocket ie activex finds some stuff13:45
gla55_seems like special arm stuff though, of course...13:46
gla55_for components you install yourself13:47
lardmanah well, who cares about all that ActiveX stuff anyway!13:50
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gla55_maybe someone doing some custom app for some client they can dictate to use some confusing system13:50
pupnikwe hates it (gollum)13:50
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gla55_that pocketsurfer is very regionally limited too though13:51
gla55_so no intrest for me at all :)13:51
lardmanlikewise, just saw a shiny gadget13:51
lardmanpupnik: you'll be glad to hear I've started work on debugging the tremor task, and spotted a schoolboy error with the mp3 one that was making it fail13:52
pupniknice13:53
lardmanI've also had a chap from Bristol contact me who's interested in working on an SBC (a2dp) task13:54
lardmanI do wonder if Nokia are working on that though, in which case it doesn't make much sense for us to start anyway13:55
pupnikyeh i was hoping your work would inspire others too (and help pave the way with code)13:55
lardmanyeah, seems to be slow progress, but I'm sure we'll get there13:55
* pupnik hands lardman a freshly sharpened machete13:56
lardmanif the mp3 task works, then it will make porting easier as everything can be done in a seperate thread (i.e. no major changes to structure of a decoder) just with semaphores added13:56
lardmanI see the dsp kernel is ~200kb larger on os2008, I must check and see if they've added sbc in there and not told us :)13:56
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pupnikyou're doing your own mp3 player or trying to build the existing one?14:01
pupniki'm missing something here14:02
lardmanSerge sent me some code someone had written14:02
lardmanHe's interested in an open source one as there are some issues with the closed source one14:02
lardmanit's good to see how someone else writes decoders, rather than just the arm-side stuff we've got for the closed source ones14:03
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timelesssp3000: ping14:27
timelesscan you try banning images from maemo.org in minefield and loading http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/14:27
timelesswhen i do it, i don't see the fav/bury links14:28
timelessbut on my n810 i do when i disable loading images14:28
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Mintii am using tree_store and attaching "row-activated" signal to treeview  but this signal is not able to capture on maemo side14:31
Mintihow it is possible?14:31
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Mintiwhy it is not able to connect ? can anyone ans plz ?14:33
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guardianhi14:36
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alteregoUrgh ..14:54
alteregoThe sound of a hang over.14:55
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* keesj had a work-party yesterday15:01
alteregoI could do with going back to bed.15:03
alteregoI feel pretty ill :S15:03
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alteregoI'm gonna work from bed today me thinks.15:12
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Khertanhi15:20
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* czr peeks15:36
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lardmananyone know if a2dp works on the 770?15:55
lardmanhas anyone tried it?15:55
alteregoCan BT 1.1 handle it?15:56
* pupnik whistles atonally15:58
lardmanI'm not sure15:58
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lardmansurely there must have been a 770 user who wanted to try, somewhere...16:00
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alteregoWho's Sherly?16:02
lardmandon't call me shirley!16:03
alteregoAh, that's how you spell it.16:03
* lardman must watch Airplane soon16:04
alteregoNot a very common name ;)16:04
lardmannot really here either, 20 years ago it probably was16:04
alteregoYes, 20 years ago. Just before the mass Shirley culling?16:04
lardmanexactly16:04
lardmanone can only hope for a Britney culling16:05
alteregoHah16:05
alteregoI'd vote for that.16:05
* Jaffa was going to make a reference to "hoping for an N810 sometime soon"; but thing I've also done one of those comments today, so will refrain16:05
Jaffas/thing/think/16:05
lardman+1 from /me16:06
czr /0 from me16:07
* alterego hopes the N810 will arrive in the UK today.16:07
lardmanany reason (to think that)?16:07
alteregoNo16:07
JaffaHope over experience?16:07
alteregoI'm just hoping :)16:07
JaffaIt's nearly too late for next day delivery to be monday16:08
lardmanI'll add my hopes too then16:08
alteregoYeah16:09
JaffaIf we all hope simultaneously...16:09
lardmanAnyone here with 770HE?16:09
alterego:)16:09
czrit will be delivered in 4 weeks16:09
Jaffa...and we'll die from suffocation.16:09
alterego(Clap your hands if you believe the N810 exists)16:09
lardmanwhat, hacker edition?16:09
* czr only sees N0016:09
JaffaI want a new toy. I want it before I go on holiday next week16:09
alteregoI think the N810 is some sick april fools joke.16:09
czralterego, ssh16:09
Jaffawell, next week == start of dec.16:10
lardmanTo someone with a 770 running hacker edition, do the dsp tasks work? I.e. can you play mp3s, etc.?16:10
Jaffaczr: maybe it's just an internal joke to play on gullible consumers.16:10
alteregoYeah16:10
czrJaffa, it goes much deeper than that. even people inside N think they're developing software for it.16:10
czrthose fools..16:10
alteregoI bet the N810 photo's are fake. Like the moon landing.16:10
* Jaffa doesn't understand how it can be launched officially in the US, but without the discount codes working and only available in-store; and not launched anywhere else. It's totally fubar.16:10
alteregoSeriously?16:11
alteregoIt's only available in US shops?16:11
JaffaThe N810 is based on alien technology recovered from Roswell, so the CIA has now stopped Nokia from launching it anywhere except in US physical stores. Possibly as some kind of mind-control device.16:11
alteregoNot nokia usa?16:11
alteregoAh, that makes sense.16:12
lardmanI don't see a big issue there really, we're getting a big discount (why should we be first), the US is large = lots of customers16:12
JaffaNope. NokiaUSA.com says 2007-12-19 as the release date.16:12
tsavolaaliens used linux back in 1940's16:12
alteregolardman, we should be first because we're developing software for it ;)16:12
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lardmanpupnik: you about?16:12
tsavolalinus just ported it to the i386 in 199116:12
alteregoInteresting.16:12
czrtsavola, explains why your eyes glow green in the dark :-)16:12
Khertantsavola > lol16:12
tsavolaczr: not to mention my pen..16:12
alteregoSo how come Nokia USA get a release date whilst the rest of us are left in the dark?16:13
czrtsavola, no reason to get _that_ personal!16:13
tsavolaczr: you don't like my pen?16:13
alteregoHah16:13
czrtsavola, I think it's too long to be of any real use.16:13
tsavola:D16:13
Veggenalterego: could be just educated guesses?16:13
czrtsavola, don't people complain about it?16:13
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Jaffaalterego: don't worry, it seems to change on a daily basis. And again, doesn't make much sense when Nokia US have put out a press release saying it's now available to buy (but not from them online)16:13
Khertanalterego: a gamble between N Team ? :)16:13
tsavolaczr: they like to borrow it16:13
alteregoVeggen, Nokia USA is owned by Nokia do you think they'd put false information on their own site? (intentionally of course)16:13
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pupnikyes lardman16:13
czrtsavola, that's just evil :-)16:13
* alterego chuckles.16:13
tsavolaczr: i get good money renting its use16:14
pupnikjust dealing with some massive idiocy16:14
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Veggenalterego: Friends of mine write a technical book. Way long before it was finished, it was available for pre-order, and with "213 pages" in the description ;)16:14
lardmanpupnik: you run HE?16:14
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JaffaVeggen: heh16:14
alteregoHah, maybe they just new how long it'd be ;)16:14
pupnikno, and i'm sorry to say i don't have an image handy on mmc16:14
* alterego gives up on the 212th hypothetical page.16:14
pupnikbut i need to, and i plan to16:14
lardmanpupnik: do you know how well it supports the hw? Ie. does the DSP now work?16:15
Khertani don't know if you have see but there is an other firmware to leak :)16:15
pupniklardman: yes dsp works - just needed a little change in a config16:15
KhertanRX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-19_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin16:15
Khertan:)16:15
lardmancool, thanks16:15
JaffaOooh, interesting. Very interesting: Use nokia.co.uk's search to find references to "N810" and the only one is yesterday, the support site going live: http://www.nokia.co.uk/EUROPE_NOKIA_COM_3/Get_Support/RSS/supportnews.xml16:15
alteregoJaffa, that's good news ..16:16
pupnikit's possible that the various internationalization / keyboards are the reason for delay in europe16:16
czrtsavola, have you thought about franchising your pen?16:16
Jaffapupnik: Someone @Nokia told me UK & US ones are the same (although obviously chargers & packaging are probably different)16:16
alteregoI guess that's a good reason.16:16
czr"Fello Americans! You too can now Experience the T. Savola Pen!"16:17
czr+w16:17
alteregoI think I prefered the alien technology one better.16:17
Veggenseems the book is at 184 pages, now.16:17
VeggenI think it's in the print, now.16:17
alteregoJaffa, there's a product information page too.16:18
Khertanit's possible that the various internationalization / keyboards are the reason for delay in europe > NO PLEASE ! I want a QWERTY keyboard16:18
pupniksame here, but i'll take anything16:19
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alteregoIt's not just the mapping, for instance in the UK the currency is £ not $16:20
alteregoWhich is reflected in the key mapping (usually)16:20
alteregoAnyone watch that BSG Razor thingy?16:21
Jaffahttp://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/n810_02_web_low.jpg shows that the QWERTY keyboard has USD, EUR & GBP16:21
alteregoWorth a peek?16:21
Jaffaalterego: definitely. it's very *very* good16:21
alteregoCool, there's an ep on tomorrow.16:21
Khertanalterego > i see it ... ... bof bof16:21
alteregoI'll watch the one that aired in October in a few minutes.16:21
Khertanalterego > maybe i ve waited too long time ...16:22
Khertanalterego > maybe i'm asking too much16:22
alteregoHeh16:22
alteregoWhat are you on about?16:22
Khertanalterego > it a good double episode ... not less, not much16:22
alteregoCool.16:23
Khertanalterego > sometime a bit slow ...16:23
alteregoWell, it's 1 1/2 hours long ^_^16:23
Khertanyes :)16:24
alteregoI want to see Roswell Aliens in BSG16:24
alteregoMore aliens!16:24
alteregoMaybe Xenomorphs16:24
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alteregoStarbuck Vs. Ripley16:25
sp3000timeless: 169161 I suppose16:25
sp3000which is odd, I'd have thought that would be essential or something16:25
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L0cutusmaemo.org RIP16:27
alteregoHah16:28
alteregoSomeone should consider mirroring that site for Nokia ;)16:28
alteregoczr, 'selector.flip.flop.to_blob' Ruby poetry ;)16:29
alteregoMaybe Ruby rap ..16:29
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KhertanL0cutus > maemo is dead like all friday ... as nokia announce new thing friday i think there are too many connections16:30
* czr smacks alterego around with a trout called "Flip Flop"16:30
alterego:)16:30
L0cutuslol16:30
JaffaKhertan: there's a new thing announced today?16:30
L0cutustoo many nXXX users out there...16:30
alteregoThat's cute. Do you name all of your fish?16:30
KhertanJaffa > i don't think :)16:30
czralterego, it's my neighbours16:30
alteregoHah16:30
czrmine go by numbers16:31
KhertanJaffa > there is a new firmware for n810 :) (still installable on n800 :)16:31
JaffaKhertan: ah, yeah.16:31
czrhmm. does it fix anything?16:31
czron n810 I mean16:32
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Khertandon't know16:32
* czr nods16:32
Khertanthere is no changelog in firmware pages :)16:32
czrthere's no changelogs anywhere :-)16:32
alteregoHah16:32
Khertanlol ...16:32
czror rather, there might be, but they're normally pretty non-verbose and cryptic16:32
shackanagain!?16:33
alteregoKhertan, if you find out any changes let me know ;)16:33
Khertanczr> maybe in there own bug tracker at nokia16:33
czrKhertan, maybe16:33
Khertanalterego> don't see one16:33
czror maybe they write the changelogs in white ink, so that people using white background in terminals won't see the secret message16:33
* czr shrugs16:33
Khertanthere is also an new support page for the n810 on the nokia europe16:33
alteregoHang on .. Shouldn't you be able to update with apt-get upgrade ?16:33
alteregoKhertan, yes. We were talking about that earlier.16:34
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Khertanah lol don't see it :)16:34
lardmanwhat about a binary diff of the rootfs's16:34
czrKhertan, try changing the background color in your terminal16:34
Khertanit s google alert wicch send me a mail :)16:34
Khertanczr> it's already yellow foreground on pink background16:35
czrpink background? that explains it16:35
alteregolardman, I think a filesystem tree diff would be better ;)16:35
czryou've hit the "Linux is unstable with pink background"-bug16:35
Khertanczr> lol16:35
lardmanalterego: yeah, compression16:35
alteregoI'll run a comparison myself actually :)16:36
Khertanmaybe i should try to use hachoir on the firmware :)16:36
JaffaKhertan: indeed, we noticed about half an hour ago.16:36
Jaffa(on the support page :-))16:36
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lardmanwhat days were the 770 and N800 released on?16:37
czrfriday16:38
_Monkeyi guess friday is comming up again :D16:38
alteregoHeh16:39
lardman_Monkey: coming is the correct spelling16:39
_MonkeyOK, lardman.16:39
Jaffa_Monkey in insightful and humourous comment shocker.16:39
_MonkeyJaffa: i'm not following you...16:39
vegaias the spanish like to say... manana16:39
* vegai cannot type the fancy n ;-/16:39
lardmanoh no, what have I just taught _Monkey16:39
czrthe finnish replace that with maanantaina16:39
lardmancoming?16:39
_Monkeyit has been said that coming is the correct spelling16:39
lardmanlol16:39
vegaicuming?16:39
lardman_Monkey: vegai is rude16:40
_MonkeyOK, lardman.16:40
lardmanvegai?16:40
_Monkeyvegai is, like, rude16:40
vegaihe got me.16:40
lardmanvegai: unteach him if you want16:40
czr_Monkey, unlearn being a useless bot!16:41
_Monkeyczr: what?16:41
czrlardman, doesn't work..16:41
czran useless even.16:41
lardmanczr: I wonder what "forget everything" does?16:41
* czr runs in shame16:41
lardman_Monkey: forget coming16:41
_Monkeylardman: I forgot coming16:41
lardman_Monkey: forget vegai16:41
_Monkeylardman: I forgot vegai16:41
pupnikdon't forget to set <reply>16:42
pupnik_Monkey: coming is <reply>16:42
_MonkeyOK, pupnik.16:42
pupnikwhich is totally annoying to have to do16:42
captlloydNov 23, 2007    7:54 AM  At local FedEx facility   <--- I think I get it today, yay :)16:42
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Jaffacaptlloyd: not a way to win friends ;-p16:44
Khertancoming16:44
sp3000tmi16:44
Khertan_Monkey coming16:44
_MonkeyKhertan: what?16:45
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Khertan_Monkey16:45
_MonkeyKhertan?16:45
alteregoHeh16:45
GNUtonbye16:45
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pupniki'm pondering a raised plastic ring for the N810 dpad16:46
lophytemorning all16:46
pupnikwould need to have some stickyness but not too much - maybe double-sided tape16:46
Khertanme i hope the sliding keyboard will not be too fragil16:48
Khertanhttp://www.redferret.net/Images/eleksen2sidedfabrickeyboard_small.jpg < very funny16:50
lardmanalpha on one side & calc on the other?16:51
Khertanhttp://europe.nokia.com/A4680127 the changelog for the new firmware :)16:51
Khertanmany explications, details on the changes ...16:52
czr"This release includes a fix for stability improvement. We recommend everyone to upgrade to this software release."16:52
lardman:)16:52
czrthey fixed the stability improvement!16:52
captlloydYAY!16:52
captlloydStability improvement16:52
czrnow it's unstable again.16:52
Khertanlol16:52
captlloydyeah, I am so glad they fixed that.16:53
czrit really got on my nerves :-)16:53
captlloydthe tablets were just TOO stable before the fix16:53
alteregoHah16:53
czrcaptlloyd, yeah, how on earth does Nokia suppose people can even use them for development? :-)16:53
alteregoYeah, stability is for people who like being robots.16:53
czryeah!16:54
Khertanthe bug wich i hope they fix is on the thumb keyboard ... double all my sentence each time16:54
alteregoI'd like them to sort out the vkb in microb ..16:54
L0cutushu ?16:55
Khertanha !16:55
alteregoUsing it for form entry is a joke.16:55
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* lardman could do with a beer, all this waiting is stressful16:56
L0cutusa new firmware to leak ? :)16:56
alteregoUrgh .. Don't .. My hangover has only just subsided ;)16:56
Khertanusing it is a joke :)16:56
lardmanalterego: hair of the dog16:56
JaffaL0cutus: it's not a leak, the N810 is launched in some US shops16:57
* Jaffa 's brother is round for dinner tonight. Mrs. Jaffa will have to suffer some beer consumption16:57
L0cutusi mean for our n800 :)16:57
alteregoHah16:57
JaffaWell, "leak" is still wrong - "hack" is better :)16:57
alteregoMrs. Jaffa .. That's cute ;)16:57
L0cutushehe16:57
alteregoWell, it would be more cute if you were Jabba16:58
JaffaTTOTD: Women don't like being referenced as Jabba *ever*.16:58
alterego;)16:58
JaffaTrust me, I've learnt this from personal experience ;-)16:58
alteregoHahah16:58
alteregoI'm not that stupid :P16:58
lardmanlol16:58
czrwe can't know that alterego16:59
alteregoWell .. I'm not _that_ stupid ;)16:59
alteregoI openly admit I'm a huge dumbass ;)16:59
czrwe can't know _that_ either :-)16:59
lardmanit may be that every time you say something like that she knocks you unconsicious and you forget what you did wrong16:59
czrheh16:59
alteregoHah17:00
alteregoYes, that sounds plausible.17:00
czrhmm. that could work at work too. "Why isn't your stuff done yet?!" "I Don't know. I started working on it last week, and then somehow monday turned into friday. I have no idea"17:00
JaffaAnd then aliens abduct you, to experiment on the best way to torture a developer waiting for the N810 release.17:00
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alteregoHahah17:01
alteregoI'm still convinced that the N810 is just a bad joke :P17:01
bedboilol17:01
lardmanthere's surely only one worse torture, to see the web stores come on line one by one, but not your one!17:01
czryou could fake one lardman17:02
czrno one would ever know the difference17:02
JaffaNew phishing scam to collect loads of device codes ;-)17:02
czrerr. why do you even need to collect them :-)17:02
JaffaSell them on, make a huge profit. Retire to a desert island and never worry about Maemo again17:02
* L0cutus wait for n900 :)17:02
alteregoThey'll carry on with this release stuff. Then I'll order one, December 25th some fat guy in a red coat will knock on the door, open up his bag and give me an empty box with a note in it saying "Fooled You! MERRY CHRISTMAS!"17:02
czrjust get the OID list and test those17:02
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czralterego, "And I'm a woman btw!"17:03
alteregoHeh17:03
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JaffaAnd real :)17:04
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alteregoQuim Gill is a women?!17:05
JaffaQuim Gil is fat?17:05
czryeah. that's where the Gill Sans font got the name!17:05
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czr(sans = without in latin)17:05
Jaffaheh17:05
alteregoHah17:06
shackanlardman, any luck with pvr.ko ?17:06
czrhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gill_Sans17:06
lardmanLatin? French too17:06
* czr shrugs17:06
alteregolardman, you know where French came from don't you ;)17:06
lardmanshackan: I've been battling with OE to build an image with GCC 3.4.4, oldish libc and OABI17:06
lardmanalterego: yeah, not England, so it must be rubbish?17:07
alteregolardman, couldn't you just use buildroot?17:07
lardmanalterego: ;)17:07
alteregolardman, it's not like you need a full system is it?17:07
alteregoHah17:07
shackanlardman: sounds like you're spending a whole weekend getting it work :)17:07
lardmanYes, I want to run the opengl stuff too if possible17:07
alteregobuildroot is super easy ..17:07
lardmanwhat's buildroot?17:07
_Monkeybuildroot is, like, super easy17:07
alteregolardman, sure you can compile X with buildroot17:07
shackanlardman: have you tried the vincent3d port linked on ITT ?17:08
alterego_Monkey buildroot is a cross-platform rootfs from scratch building tool.17:08
_Monkey...but buildroot is super easy .....17:08
czrlardman: do you want to continue? Yes/Yes17:08
lardmanshackan: no, I'm not bothered with opengl per se (his port is software only), I want to decipher the comms between the kernel driver and the user-space side code17:08
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shackanI know it's software only17:09
alterego_Monkey your mom is super easy17:09
_MonkeyOK, alterego.17:09
lardmanI think I should be able to create a Poky image, I met some bugs, they should have been fixed17:09
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lardmanshackan: I have spent all this week, every evening (gf not best pleased) trying to debug my OE build though17:10
czrlardman, why would your GeForce mind?17:11
alteregolardman, seriously buildroot can help :) It'll even generate a jffs or squashfs image for you :)17:11
shackanlardman: ouch :)17:11
lardmanczr: lol17:11
alteregoHah17:11
shackanlardman: gonna use mmiotrace on the driver once it works ?17:11
lardmanalterego: do you have an url, I'll take a look if OE doesn't work (it does the same thing though)17:11
alteregolardman, it's part of the uclibc project.17:11
lardmanshackan: to tell the truth I haven't the faintest idea, I learn as I go along17:12
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alteregolardman, http://buildroot.uclibc.org/17:12
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shackanlardman: I see, you hacked with the DSP too haven't ya?17:12
lardmanalterego: ah, I thought it was maemo specific, in that case OE does the same job so I'll stick with what I know (but will take a look at the link, thanks)17:12
alteregoWell, if OE is dying on you. buildroot is simple and just works :P17:13
lardmanshackan: yeah, DSP hacking is still going on, just got sidetracked with Jazelle & PowerVR17:13
shackanlardman: could it be used (I mean, would it make sense to use it) to accelerate some ogl functions ?17:14
lardmanalterego: but does it just work for an old setup (ie old gcc, old libc, old ABI)? - that's the problem with OE, these things are old and therefore have broken17:14
shackanlardman: of course just to learn dsp coding, mostly17:14
alteregoIt should do you can select the versions of packages to install.17:14
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kulvelardman: what do you need from the oabi rootfs?17:14
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lardmanshackan: it's possible, but I think the hardware is pretty good (if it could be made to work). I understand that the link isn't that fast ARM<->DSP, which is why Nokia stopped doing video there17:14
lardmankulve: I'm after an entire rootfs + kernel - I want to run the opengl + powervr mbx stuff and see if it works17:16
lardmanshackan: you are doing some DSP stuff too?17:16
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kulve"entire" i.e. X and everything it needs?17:16
* lardman is getting behind in the typinhg17:16
shackanlardman: oh not yet, sounded like a fun thing to do17:17
lardmankulve: perhaps, some of the binaries will just test the hardware, talk to it, but if I can match the X11 version then that would be pretty cool too17:17
kulvewhat x11 version would you need?17:17
shackanlardman: what kernel version is your blob built for ?17:18
lardmanshackan: blob is 2.6.14, but that can be stripped and I've inserted it in the current kernel (though it just sits there and does nothing)17:18
lardmankulve: let me look, hang on17:19
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lardmanWell I have libX11.so.6.2.117:20
lardmanthough how one can tell whether it's kdrive, or this or that I don't know17:20
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lardmanactually X version doesn't matter, it all comes as binaries as it's been patched17:21
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* vegai looks at his empty hands. No 81017:21
lardmangive away is the fact that usr/bin/Xmbx is called that17:21
lardmanvegai: did you screw your eyes up and think very very hard about an N810?17:22
* czr makes monkey generate some content for vegai's empty hands17:22
czr_Monkey, 800 + 1017:22
_Monkey81017:22
czrthere17:22
alteregoHah17:22
lardman_Monkey: 200Nm in lb.ft17:22
_Monkeylardman: sorry...17:22
lardmandoesn't do torque17:22
lardmannor does google, disappointing17:22
alterego_Monkey 99 EUR in GBP17:23
_Monkeyalterego: excuse me?17:23
alteregoMeh,17:23
alteregoRubybot used google for that stuff :)17:23
lardmanconvert ... perhaps17:23
Khertani ve made an screenlet to monitoring the change on the europe nokia store :)17:24
vegailardman: there one sacrificed goat I'll never see again :-/17:25
pupniknothing happens for me until i get the email from maemo.org anyway17:25
pupnikthis waiting stuff is horrible though.  i wish i could stop thinking about it17:25
lardmanvegai: :)17:26
czrpupnik, learn arm asm meanwhile?17:26
* czr is proud of his "NAO OK!" button making it17:27
lardmanczr: only takes a day ;)17:27
JaffaARM assembler's lurvely17:27
czrlardman, poop. :-)17:27
pupniki'm slogging through my dosbox frontend right now17:27
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czrnothing can be learned properly in a day17:28
czrexcept finding out what kind of people lawyers are really17:28
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lardmanczr: true, took a couple of week's worth of evenings I reckon17:29
* czr nods17:30
czrone of the more interesting archs to learn was EPIC17:30
czrit was/is really something.17:31
lardmanit's actually hard to find stuff on the internet, ARM is in Intel syntax and everything about inline asm is in AT&T, bloody frustrating!17:31
* czr nods17:31
* czr hates the at&t "syntax"17:31
czralthough, the mcs assemblers from intel actually used a very similar syntax as well17:31
lardmansame here17:31
czrmcs-51 ones17:31
* czr hugs objdump for -m intel17:32
czrmakes the blurb at least semi-readable17:32
lardmanI should really buy a book, as I do sometimes need to know things (like the preamble and postamble or whatever they're called) and can't remember where I found it on the net17:32
pupniki have a snes emu lying around that just needs a high-resolution timer - nice little arm hack project17:32
czrI write notes to myself. normally do a separate 'play' project for each arch and write commented examples there17:33
czrthat way I can find the stuff easily afterwards17:33
czrmy svn is filled with all kinds of small projects like that17:33
lardmanczr: good plan17:33
* czr shrugs. works for me at least17:33
czrlike I never quite remember which include files to use with gcc for xmm intrisics17:34
czror how to do the inline asm version of rdtsc and such17:34
lardmanbeyond me, I just learned what I needed to to hack Jazelle17:34
czroh. that's for x86. I don't do arm really.17:35
lardmanso coprocessor access, other basic bits and all inline17:35
* czr chuckles at one correction on paper17:36
czrample should be sample. but it shouldn't really. bleh :-)17:36
itnomadexit17:39
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Khertansomeone know if there is documentation about using camera on n800 with python ?17:43
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czrfood-time(tm) ->17:43
lophyteKhertan, there's a python API called "easy" that makes it simple17:44
lophyteKhertan, easy.garage.maemo.org17:44
lophyteits as simple as easy.click("mysnapshot.jpg")17:44
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lopzhola17:49
_Monkeysalut, lopz17:49
X-FadeHmm Adam Curry seems to have got his N810. http://m-uk.podshow.com/media/21/episodes/88366/dailysourcecode-88366-11-23-2007.mp317:50
X-FadeTalks a lot about it about 5 minutes into the podcast..17:50
JaffaHad it since Tuesday according to http://www.curry.com/17:51
X-FadeYep.17:51
X-FadeAnd is running Video center..17:51
X-FadeWhich is not available yet..17:51
Okkowhat's video center?17:52
JaffaVideo Center is http://videocenter.garage.maemo.org/17:52
Okkohas nokia recruited curry?17:53
JaffaX-Fade: VC not available for OS2008?17:54
X-FadeOkko: No, but he owned a N800 too. Talked a lot about it..17:54
X-FadeJaffa: Nope.17:54
OkkoJaffa: thanks17:54
X-FadeJaffa: yet ;)17:54
Khertanlophyte> thanks i ll get a look to this api ... but it s seems not available yet for chinook17:54
Khertanbut i could look how they do :)17:54
lophyteKhertan, ah, yeah I don't know about chinook...17:54
lophyteI'm on bora atm17:54
OkkoX-Fade: just wondering since he has visited the nokia hq17:55
* alterego yawns17:55
X-FadeOkko: Yeah, podshow is going to sell them too. With discounts..17:55
alteregoI'm gonna watch Razor.17:55
* alterego idles17:55
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JaffaKhertan: given it's just Python it should work fine on Chinook unless the DBUS calls it uses have changed17:55
lophytethat's true too17:56
Khertanreally easy to use :camera.click('filename')17:56
Okkowonder when the nexst model will come out17:57
Okko-s17:57
KhertanJaffa > as i don't like depending on framework for small program i could look at their source :)17:57
Okkoplanning to skip N810 in the product line :)17:57
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JaffaKhertan: seems odd to re-invent the wheel, TBH. Happens all too often in software development, it's probably problem #1 in s/w engineering at the moment17:58
KhertanJaffa > it's true ... but framework are often ... too heavy ... for small things18:00
vegaiproblem #2 is that the old wheels were round, the new wheels are octahedrons18:00
Khertanjaffa > but as this framework seem's to be really well build ... i could use only the camera module without loading and integrated the other18:01
JaffaKhertan: one would hope - otherwise you could raise it as a bug :)18:01
JaffaIn fact, it looks like camera.py only depends on easy_exceptions and the rest is "normal"18:02
Khertanproblem #3 : many framework can do many things, use many ressources, need more time to implements instead for using only one function18:02
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Jaffaproblem Â#4: even small programs become big programs eventually18:03
GNUtonhttp://www.gnuton.org/blog/2007/11/23/qt4-on-maemo-screenshots/18:03
JaffaGNUton: cool18:03
KhertanJaffa > problem #5 : many people want one program for doing all things where there are already others program for doing all this thing18:04
GNUtonJaffa: :)18:04
JaffaGNUton: any chance of a Qt theme to better fit the gtk one? Is there a Gtk/Qt bridge you could use to do the menu integration?18:04
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JaffaDoh: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=99027#post9902718:05
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KhertanGNUton> very nice site18:05
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JaffaShort version: Nokia Europe said "the N810 will not be avaialble for a few weeks (December for sure) in Europe"18:06
GNUtonJaffa: i'll try to write some patch for Qt!18:06
GNUtonKhertan: thank you18:06
Khertangreat wp theme18:06
Khertanand nice content18:07
GNUtonKhertan: :)18:07
Khertando you have a traduction for this doc ? : http://www.gnuton.org/blog/docs/realizzare-un-repository-debian/18:07
lardmantranslation18:08
Khertantranslation sorry :) thanks lardman18:08
Khertanspeaking in english with keyboard and in french on phone isn't easy :)18:09
GNUtonKhertan: no, i'm sorry18:09
lardmanKhertan: I can imagine18:09
GNUtoni have to go! bye!18:10
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lardmanto the pub!18:10
Khertanlol18:10
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Khertani like the class easy_exception from the framework easy : class EasyError(Exception): pass18:13
Khertan:)18:13
Khertannice error managment :)18:13
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Khertanbye18:24
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JaffaHeh, two blog posts pretty much at the same time on the same issue (N810 delays, availability and discount codes) both currently top on pmo18:30
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ramo102Hi everybody18:31
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ramo102I tries to run a .wav file with mplayer, but it doesn't work... neither with -ao option... some hints?18:32
Jaffa.wav is a container format; the contents could be unsupported.18:32
JaffaNeed to see command line and full mplayer output18:33
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ramo102http://pastebin.com/d5a39b94a18:50
JaffaNot seen that before. Looks like it's a straight forward WAV. Perhaps raise on mplayer.garage.maemo.org ?18:52
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lopzre19:02
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pupnik Scott horton show on now - http://listen64.kaos959.com  ;)19:07
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lopzbrb19:43
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Andy80hi all19:47
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Tiekuhi19:48
* Andy80 writing from n770 with os2007 HE :)19:48
Tiekuhaha pretty cool19:49
Jaffalo andy8019:49
Tiekui jsut bought an n800, so impressed considering getting an n770 :)19:50
Andy80I know why n810 will arrive later here in europe...19:50
Andy80Nokia signed an agreement with Santa Klaus and he will bring us our devices :p19:52
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Tieku:)19:53
Tiekuits an amazing piece of hardware.... and open source19:53
* Tieku in ore19:53
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mgedminwell, parts of it are open source20:02
* mgedmin sighs20:02
pupnikwhat are you missing?20:03
lophyteTieku, why would you want a 770 if you have the n800 o_o20:03
Tiekulophyte: Its cheap to pick up second hand and means i can hack across the two plateforms :) i want to write useful tutorials20:04
lophytehaha20:04
lophytetrue enough20:04
lophyteI'm kinda anxious to start developing on it but I'm at a loss for project ideas, lol20:05
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TiekuI just spent a couple of nights managing to access my samba share across the network :D20:05
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* Tieku very pleased with his small success20:06
pupniklophyte: many things to do.  do you know any GTK or SDL?20:06
shackanwhat a sick way to spend the night20:06
lophyteyeah but I'm a python dev, not C20:06
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* lophyte is looking for pygtk projects to work on20:10
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suihkulokkifuck20:31
lardman|away?20:32
suihkulokkiwhere is libqdm3 ?20:32
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suihkulokkior whaterver is the lib maemo mapper it2008 wants20:32
lardmanno idea, I've not installed it yet20:33
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lardmanstill no n810 in the uk store :(20:34
flatfaceI'm having trouble trying to connect to my college's wifi with the n800/os2k8, using WPA/PEAP/MSCHAPv2... It just says "Authentication failed. Try again". Is there any way of viewing a logfile or something? There's nothing of interest in /var/log/.20:35
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keesjflatface: did you try dmesg?20:36
kulveflatface: or install syslog20:36
kulve(it floods alot, so don't keep it on when you don't want it)20:36
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flatfaceI'll try that, keesj, thanks20:37
flatfacekulve: Will do, if I find out how to tether it to my laptop (or copy the deb file over)20:38
flatfaceNothing in dmesg20:39
kulveI think the sysklogd depends on klogd. Connect the n800 to your laptop, copy the file to usb mass storage, install the deps20:43
flatfacekk.20:44
* flatface starts to doze off while waiting for maemo.org to load20:49
lardmanit's all the automatic news announcement checker scripts20:49
flatfaceAck. Aren't they using RSS?20:50
lardmanI'm only joking, they have other issues for some reason20:51
flatfaceAh, heh20:51
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flatfaceHm, can't find klogd or syslog at downloads.maemo.org under os2k7. Is it part of the SDK?20:52
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flatfaceAha! Got it connected. I had to set it up like explained on some forum thread... I tried connecting, it gave me an error, I reconnected, it gave me a different message, but it works fine now21:03
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flatfaceThanks for the suggestions21:04
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K`zanMorning all21:18
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flatfaceMorning.21:27
_Monkeyaloha21:27
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niteOwlWorking on debugging dates crash issue - I seem to be a bit rusty on this debugging stuff in particular use of LD_LIBRARY_PATH. So I guess it's time to ask for a little help...I have a debug version of libecal and have tried setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to it, yet when I run run-standalone.sh gdb ./dates and reproduce the crash it still does not give me the line number of the crash - and various messages mentionin21:34
mgedminI've heard that you won't get any useful debugging info from armel binaries unless you recompile them without the -fomit-frame-pointer flag21:35
niteOwlThe man page on ld is a bit confusing - my memory says that I should use LD_LIBRARY_PATH for link time changes, and LD_RUN_PATH for run-time changes of search path - I have tried both and neither seem to work as I hope them to21:35
mgedminpeople usually recommed debugging in a x86 target in scratchbox21:35
niteOwlmgedmin: thanks - interesting. So far I'm using SDK_X86 for my target though21:36
mgedminah, okay21:36
mgedminhm, LD_LIBRARY_PATH ... no idea21:37
niteOwlyes, I thought LD_LIBRARY_PATH would work too. That is what you are saying? right?21:38
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Andy80is maemo.org down at the moment?22:01
kulveseems to be22:06
kulve(again)22:06
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kulveand it's friday. Maybe it's back up on monday..22:06
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X-FadeIt works for me at the moment?22:18
Jaffaditto22:18
rubikswow n810 pushed back22:24
X-Faderubiks: It isn't pushed back. They sell loads of them.22:25
X-FadeOn the other side of the pond ;)22:25
rubikso ok22:25
rubiksi c now22:25
rubiksso os2008 still for dec?22:25
X-FadeI guess they wanted to have enough there for Thanksgiving orso :D22:25
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X-FadeIt is anyones guess when OS2008 will be out for N800. On a friday most likely. But which one...22:27
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niteOwlany maemo hackers here?22:39
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niteOwlI'm trying to decipher  the maemo wiki page on debugging setup22:39
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Andy80hey people!22:40
niteOwlsomething about native gdb versus maemo gdb (why is there even a difference?) under scratchboc22:40
Andy80a new Os2008 release for N810 is out!22:40
Andy80http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php?f=RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-19_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin22:40
Andy80really don't know what it fixes, but it's out22:41
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p|yes, we have see :)22:41
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Andy80ah ok ;)22:42
Andy80ok, see ya later :)22:42
niteOwlIn addition the page describes the native gdb as being located at /usr/bin/gdb and the one which should be used for debugging particularly if one cares about threads - yet goes on to describe setting up an alias which seems to set the sb scratchbox ignore redirect environ var - which, as I understand it from earlier on the page - is how you get to the NON-NATIVE or maemo version of gdb...22:42
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niteOwlgreat - conflicting info it seems to me - at the least confusing22:42
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niteOwlThis make sense to anyone else? http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/maemo_debugging_guide.html Am I wrong in my understanding - perhaps I have it backwards and one must use that variable to get the native gdb22:43
niteOwl..confused22:43
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niteOwlThe doc remains confusing - due in part to introducing more terminology. First they describe "scratchbox supplied gdb" , then the other variety which is "maemo gdb" Then proceed to say always to use something called "native gdb" - Apparently this means the one installed  by apt-get install gdb otherwise known as "maemo gdb". I will try this...and see if it works22:49
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K`zanniteOwl: Yes, it is.  Started installing 2008 dev in a vmware vm last night after the stuff fest (Thanksgiving) and I think I screwed it up being in a too much food induced coma at the time :-).  Going to see if I can recover today :-).22:51
K`zanWish there was a vmware appliance for 2008, but all there is, is for 2006 and 2007...22:52
K`zanI knew I should have snapshotted that before I started after dinner :).22:53
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lophyteI accidentally uninstalled osso-browser.. is there a way to restore it?22:55
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kulvelophyte: apt-get install osso-browser?23:05
lophytedoesn't exist23:05
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kulvehmm.. so it seems..23:06
lophyteyeah23:09
lophytehence why I asked23:09
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K`zanAny dev's around that might be able to tell me if, presuming I screwed up the dev stuff install, if I can just start over or do I need to re-install deb again before I do?23:14
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niteOwlscratchbox borken: :-( maemo-af-desktop did not exit properly on the previous session. All home plugins will be disabled.23:19
niteOwlany ideas?23:19
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niteOwlok broken sb fixed - just needed to run af-sb-init.sh stop23:40
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niteOwlstill need to figure out why LD_LRARY_PATH is not helping me easily switch to using a debug version of the library where a problem is occuring...23:41
niteOwlLD_LIBRARY_PATH (of course)23:41
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czrniteOwl, there was another envvar that you had to set, in sbox LD_LIBRARY_PATH is not the right one23:47
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