| Jaffa | timelyx: Ah, of course. My Fair Lady. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Jaffa | and/or Pygma(e?)lion | 00:00 |
| timelyx | Jaffa: for another one which some origins don't recognize, http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/138/ | 00:00 |
| timelyx | it's sad, i wrote that on friday, but when i showed it to a coworker, i realized that she wouldn't get it | 00:00 |
| alterego | Ugly XP theme. | 00:01 |
| Jaffa | alterego: meh, software's hackable. Hardware's cheap. Smaller than a Psion netBook. What's not to like? | 00:01 |
| tigert | timelyx: well, you pretty much could expect that | 00:02 |
| timelyx | tigert: yeah sure | 00:02 |
| tigert | timelyx: it was stretching waaaay too many cultural boundaries | 00:02 |
| suihkulokki | Jaffa: display resolution/dpi | 00:02 |
| *** Deformati is now known as Deformative | 00:02 | |
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| Jaffa | suihkulokki: 800x480, 7" diagonal, IIRC. | 00:02 |
| suihkulokki | other than that, very attractive | 00:02 |
| timelyx | but it's easier for me to expect you not to recognize my fair lady | 00:02 |
| tigert | timelyx: it made me realize we assume things too easily | 00:02 |
| timelyx | than it is for me to realize that she wouldn't get it | 00:02 |
| tigert | timelyx: havent read it | 00:02 |
| * timelyx nods | 00:03 | |
| alterego | Yeah | 00:03 |
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| timelyx | watch the movie | 00:03 |
| alterego | That resolution is a push. | 00:03 |
| alterego | If it was touch screen I'd stick maemo on it. | 00:03 |
| Jaffa | alterego: indeed. I believe you can get more usable info on a 7" 800x480 screen than you can on a 4" 800x480 screen, though. | 00:03 |
| Jaffa | alterego: I'd still be tempted to play with Hildon on it. | 00:03 |
| alterego | I don't see how. | 00:03 |
| alterego | Yeah, Hildon would suit it fine. | 00:04 |
| alterego | That's what it's designed for after all ;) | 00:04 |
| tigert | timelyx: I will watch that, if you watch this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048752/ | 00:04 |
| timelyx | tigert: it's sad though, you'd think by now, i'd know better | 00:04 |
| alterego | Would make a good device for those Ubuntu mobile kids. | 00:04 |
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| timelyx | i mean, i have learned that people don't know translations for animals/vegetables | 00:04 |
| * timelyx grumbles | 00:05 | |
| tigert | timelyx: for some vegetables or animals | 00:05 |
| timelyx | well, i sort of know "don't bother asking a local: what's this fish?" | 00:05 |
| tigert | everyone knows what an apple or orange is | 00:05 |
| timelyx | i'm lucky if they'll say "it's white" | 00:05 |
| tigert | pomegranate or such is harder already :) | 00:05 |
| Jaffa | alterego: the pixels are bigger so you don't need as many to form a recognisable glyph. See, for example, how much more info you can see on a Psion netBook's ~7" 640x480 screen than you can on an N800's 800x480 screen (without straining your eyes). Obviously, some people's eyesight is better than others, but... | 00:05 |
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| alterego | I think I'll wait to see what they do with it. | 00:05 |
| tigert | Jaffa: yeah, design for physical size is what we've been pondering a lot lately | 00:06 |
| alterego | Mainly the new devices they're saying wil be released in April next year | 00:06 |
| timelyx | tigert: | 00:06 |
| timelyx | Plot Synopsis: | 00:06 |
| timelyx | This plot synopsis is empty. Add a synopsis | 00:06 |
| alterego | With lower power CPU's which means they can remove the Fan. | 00:06 |
| tigert | timelyx: war story | 00:06 |
| alterego | Then I'd think about getting one. | 00:06 |
| Jaffa | tigert: oh? intriguing. | 00:06 |
| tigert | timelyx: its THE finnish WW II movie | 00:06 |
| timelyx | tigert: you have it? i'll watch, but if it isn't available in English, you get to translate :) | 00:06 |
| tigert | timelyx: I would guess it is subtitled | 00:07 |
| tigert | the dvd got to exist in somewhere | 00:07 |
| tigert | lets find one | 00:07 |
| lopz | re | 00:07 |
| tigert | Jaffa: thats what ubuntu mobile needs to do too, if they want to support different devices and different screens | 00:07 |
| tigert | Jaffa: and it is hard with pixmap theming :P | 00:07 |
| * timelyx shoots our themers ;-) | 00:08 | |
| tigert | though I guess one could render the svg theme template to different size and transform the coordinates | 00:08 |
| timelyx | it's ok. you're so far down the line, i won't have ammo by the time i reach you :) | 00:08 |
| tigert | that would be pretty interesting thing to try btw | 00:08 |
| tigert | to scale the whole ui in build time | 00:08 |
| tigert | timelyx: hey, shoot Tommi :) | 00:08 |
| tigert | he created it | 00:08 |
| timelyx | tigert: i think i'd run out of bullets if i started with maps | 00:09 |
| tigert | or was part of it, I am just trying to keep it running with michael | 00:09 |
| tigert | anyway | 00:09 |
| tigert | back to weekend :D | 00:09 |
| alterego | Keep what running? | 00:09 |
| timelyx | theming | 00:09 |
| alterego | Eesh, maemo theming is a mess :P | 00:09 |
| timelyx | alterego: that's on a good day | 00:09 |
| alterego | Hah | 00:09 |
| tigert | timelyx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGkctbhkGvE :) | 00:10 |
| tigert | timelyx: no subtitles though, so it'll be gibberish for you | 00:10 |
| timelyx | ok, you get to translate | 00:10 |
| timelyx | i'll buy the popcorn, dinner, drinks, whatever | 00:10 |
| tigert | hehe | 00:10 |
| zerojay | Sounds like fun. | 00:10 |
| tigert | I mean, this youtube link | 00:10 |
| tigert | I am pretty sure the dvd has | 00:11 |
| zerojay | Send me the plane tickets. :) | 00:11 |
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| timelyx | zerojay: i can offer a place to sleep, but tickets are moderately pricy | 00:11 |
| * timelyx is still stinging from 2 days w/o credit | 00:11 | |
| alterego | For instance, what on earth is with no expand/colapse indicators in the tree view? | 00:12 |
| timelyx | you mean things that'd typically be +/- on some platforms? | 00:12 |
| alterego | It's annoying me now >:( | 00:12 |
| alterego | What should be arrows in Gtk. | 00:12 |
| alterego | Well, triangles. | 00:12 |
| timelyx | we have them integrated into the icons | 00:12 |
| timelyx | it's a space thing | 00:12 |
| alterego | O_o | 00:12 |
| timelyx | look at the root device | 00:13 |
| tigert | alterego: forget trees anyway :P | 00:13 |
| alterego | Can't you leave that choice to the application developers? | 00:13 |
| timelyx | or the documents folder if you have a folder in it | 00:13 |
| tigert | too small on the screen :( | 00:13 |
| timelyx | alterego: they're trying to kill trees | 00:13 |
| timelyx | and given how horribly slow they are | 00:13 |
| alterego | Who're they? | 00:13 |
| timelyx | you shouldn't use them ;-) | 00:13 |
| tigert | well | 00:13 |
| timelyx | desktop/ui engs | 00:13 |
| * timelyx shrugs | 00:13 | |
| timelyx | i can't give a list of names, that's probably a secret :) | 00:14 |
| alterego | Got a better idea for displaying a tree? | 00:14 |
| tigert | gtktreeview is one insane widget | 00:14 |
| tigert | alterego: what app is this? | 00:14 |
| timelyx | what are you trying to show? | 00:14 |
| alterego | I need something to display a DOM | 00:14 |
| timelyx | g-d | 00:14 |
| tigert | on the N800?? | 00:14 |
| alterego | Obviously. | 00:14 |
| tigert | wtf are you doing?= :) | 00:14 |
| timelyx | 1. install cairo | 00:14 |
| Stalwart | web development i guess | 00:14 |
| alterego | I'm writing an XML editor :P | 00:14 |
| timelyx | 2. rotate the screen 90 degrees | 00:15 |
| zerojay | in ruby? | 00:15 |
| tigert | alterego: why do you want to edit xml on a handheld? | 00:15 |
| alterego | zerojay, naturally. | 00:15 |
| alterego | tigert, why wouldn't I? | 00:15 |
| timelyx | alterego: no one in their right mind would want to edit xml anywhere | 00:15 |
| Stalwart | tigert, you want him to install eclipse on n800? :D | 00:15 |
| alterego | Well, that I can sympathise with ;) | 00:15 |
| timelyx | Stalwart: will he port java for us first? | 00:16 |
| timelyx | sounds good to me | 00:16 |
| Stalwart | timelyx, isn't it possible? | 00:16 |
| zerojay | No, please. | 00:16 |
| alterego | I'm developing in the maemo 4 SDK anyhow. So cairo is already here :P | 00:16 |
| zerojay | Eclipse 5 days a week is enough for me as is. | 00:16 |
| timelyx | alterego: seriously, you want to use the screen that way, not the default way | 00:16 |
| alterego | God, I'm the ruby-maemo guy. I'm not going to touch Java :P | 00:16 |
| alterego | Scheme is my next goal ^_^ | 00:16 |
| alterego | timelyx, is that even possible with maemo? | 00:17 |
| timelyx | anything's possible w/ cairo | 00:17 |
| timelyx | but you're basically drawing w/ cairo | 00:17 |
| alterego | Does maemo4 support it? | 00:17 |
| timelyx | full screen, manual drawing | 00:17 |
| alterego | :/ | 00:17 |
| Stalwart | anything is possible on zombo.com (c) #fedora | 00:17 |
| timelyx | maemo1 supports full screen apps | 00:17 |
| alterego | Screw that. | 00:17 |
| alterego | I meant screen rotation. Which isn't what you're talkinga bout at all :P | 00:17 |
| timelyx | maemo15 might support long displays | 00:17 |
| Stalwart | 15? o.O | 00:18 |
| timelyx | or rotated, however you want to think about it | 00:18 |
| timelyx | expect it to be ready by 2030 | 00:18 |
| Stalwart | i guess maemo15 will support neural connections :D | 00:18 |
| alterego | Heh. | 00:18 |
| alterego | Wouldn't take me that long .. | 00:18 |
| timelyx | Stalwart: frying them maybe | 00:18 |
| Stalwart | then you'll be able to get zombo.com right in YOUR BRAIN | 00:18 |
| Stalwart | a thing to dream of | 00:19 |
| timelyx | alterego: actually rotation is wishlisted | 00:19 |
| timelyx | with a lot of luck, prayers, and better hardware, it could be here in 10 years :) | 00:19 |
| alterego | Rubbish. | 00:19 |
| alterego | You could do it in a couple of months if you wanted to. | 00:19 |
| tigert | alterego: you could do a nice xml editor in the ipod ui way :) | 00:19 |
| timelyx | i'm a browser engineer, i couldn't :) | 00:19 |
| tigert | just browse through the tree :) | 00:20 |
| alterego | ipod UI? | 00:20 |
| alterego | I don't have an iPod. | 00:20 |
| tigert | ie, finger-pressable menu structure without a real tree, | 00:20 |
| timelyx | basically you only see one level at a time | 00:20 |
| timelyx | to go down, you go right | 00:20 |
| timelyx | to go up, you go left | 00:20 |
| alterego | Oh, a menu. | 00:20 |
| _Monkey | well, a menu is on the keyboard | 00:20 |
| tigert | but just press a node and it scrolls right to open the child :) | 00:20 |
| tigert | etc | 00:20 |
| timelyx | _Monkey forget menu | 00:20 |
| _Monkey | timelyx: I forgot menu | 00:20 |
| alterego | I think I'll do something similar to the media player in maemo. | 00:20 |
| zerojay | _Monkey: STFU | 00:20 |
| _Monkey | zerojay: huh? | 00:20 |
| Stalwart | not usable | 00:20 |
| timelyx | _Monkey menu is <reply> | 00:20 |
| _Monkey | OK, timelyx. | 00:20 |
| alterego | A menu with a path area at the top. | 00:20 |
| timelyx | _Monkey stfu is <reply> yes sir | 00:20 |
| _Monkey | OK, timelyx. | 00:20 |
| tigert | then on a leaf you could have "edit" etc :) | 00:20 |
| alterego | Kind of like: http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk | 00:21 |
| zerojay | from now on, I'm just going to make Monkey forget everything when it speaks. | 00:21 |
| timelyx | tigert: too bad you need to be able to edit non leafs | 00:21 |
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| alterego | I like that path bar .. | 00:21 |
| tigert | timelyx: perhaps it could have a small toolbar with few buttons | 00:21 |
| tigert | alterego: yeah, something like that site | 00:21 |
| timelyx | alterego: be warned | 00:21 |
| timelyx | xml node names can be fairly wide :) | 00:22 |
| suihkulokki | I love how neither ipod nor ipod touch ui have absolutely no popup/transistent windows | 00:22 |
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| tigert | you want to truncate with ellipsis ;D | 00:22 |
| timelyx | suihkulokki: designed by people with common sense | 00:22 |
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| timelyx | that's why we think different :) | 00:22 |
| tigert | alterego: the problem with most N800 apps is | 00:22 |
| tigert | they are trying to be like on the desktop | 00:22 |
| tigert | but the screen is way too small for that | 00:22 |
| timelyx | tigert: eh | 00:22 |
| tigert | and you get fooled by the resolution to think its bigger | 00:22 |
| timelyx | we have more dialogs/info things than any desktop i've ever met | 00:23 |
| tigert | timelyx: my point exactly :) | 00:23 |
| timelyx | it got worse w/ n810 | 00:23 |
| tigert | and hey | 00:23 |
| timelyx | namely map. | 00:23 |
| * timelyx sighs | 00:23 | |
| alterego | I'm aware of the constraints :P | 00:23 |
| tigert | its a *mobile* device | 00:23 |
| timelyx | alterego: clearly the ui people weren't | 00:23 |
| tigert | what freaks me out a bit very often | 00:23 |
| alterego | Maybe you're right. | 00:23 |
| tigert | is when people seem to just use it on their desk next to the laptop | 00:23 |
| alterego | I should just use a jazzy menu syste, | 00:24 |
| alterego | ~system. | 00:24 |
| tigert | and think its cool to make it work like their laptop | 00:24 |
| timelyx | tigert: we want to sell it as a replacement for laptops | 00:24 |
| tigert | but its a fscking MOBILE device | 00:24 |
| timelyx | somehow nokia managed to get a laptop award with it... | 00:24 |
| * timelyx grumbles | 00:24 | |
| tigert | no we dont | 00:24 |
| alterego | I use it for internet. | 00:24 |
| timelyx | tigert: we = some manager above osso | 00:24 |
| alterego | d | 00:24 |
| timelyx | L( | 00:24 |
| tigert | the fact its listed on amazon as top selling laptop is not a reason to think of it as one :D | 00:24 |
| timelyx | :) | 00:24 |
| tigert | sure, its a *computer* and not a phone, yeah yeah | 00:25 |
| tigert | but it is a *mobile* thing | 00:25 |
| timelyx | tigert: people clearly didn't get that memo :( | 00:25 |
| tigert | you dont really do the same things on a mobile device | 00:25 |
| alterego | I use it for surfing, and IM | 00:25 |
| zerojay | It's cut the amount of time I spend on my PC by about 60%. It's getting lonely. | 00:25 |
| tigert | you go on the bus, you chat with a friend on IM | 00:25 |
| alterego | It's also my portable media player. | 00:25 |
| tigert | you check directions to his home | 00:25 |
| alterego | And email client. | 00:25 |
| tigert | to see him for dinner | 00:25 |
| tigert | etc | 00:25 |
| zerojay | same here. | 00:25 |
| tigert | you listen to music / webradio | 00:25 |
| tigert | on the starbucks | 00:25 |
| tigert | etc | 00:25 |
| alterego | I read PDF's on it and I use it to make notes. | 00:26 |
| tigert | or whatever | 00:26 |
| _Monkey | whatever is fun for you. More power to ya | 00:26 |
| tigert | but its not something you HACK on | 00:26 |
| tigert | :) | 00:26 |
| timelyx | _Monkey forget whatever | 00:26 |
| _Monkey | timelyx: I forgot whatever | 00:26 |
| timelyx | _Monkey whatever is <reply> | 00:26 |
| _Monkey | OK, timelyx. | 00:26 |
| alterego | Sometimes I have to hack through it. | 00:26 |
| zerojay | Would "forget *" work? | 00:26 |
| tigert | its fun for us, the geeks, to do things like this | 00:26 |
| timelyx | no | 00:26 |
| zerojay | Damn. | 00:26 |
| tigert | but it really makes more sense to use it as a mobile communication tool | 00:26 |
| timelyx | zerojay: you can grep through logs | 00:26 |
| timelyx | it's easy to recognize when it learned something | 00:26 |
| tigert | I love the thing while I commute to work | 00:26 |
| timelyx | i've done that once or twice | 00:26 |
| tigert | same thing applies to bluetooth keyboards and such | 00:27 |
| timelyx | you can see me do it when all of a sudden i start telling it to forget things w/o context | 00:27 |
| tigert | try to use those while standing in a train | 00:27 |
| timelyx | tigert: you must be confused | 00:27 |
| timelyx | i always sit on trains :) | 00:27 |
| tigert | bluetooth keyboard is teh insanity and should be just destroyed from the face of earth :) | 00:27 |
| timelyx | of course, then i just use my laptop :) | 00:28 |
| tigert | timelyx: yeah but not on commuter trains I guess? | 00:28 |
| zerojay | The best thing about my N800 is how I sometimes get e-mail and messages without having a phone connection... just happens to connect randomly to some wifi router in the area. | 00:28 |
| timelyx | if you mean subway/metro, maybe | 00:28 |
| tigert | zerojay: yeah :) | 00:28 |
| timelyx | but if the commuter train takes longer than 20mins, i'm sitting | 00:28 |
| tigert | timelyx: sure I usually sit | 00:29 |
| tigert | if there is space | 00:29 |
| tigert | but I dont really use a laptop in the bus for example even when I sit | 00:29 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:29 |
| * timelyx ndos | 00:29 | |
| timelyx | bah | 00:29 |
| tigert | it's like sending / getting sms'es | 00:29 |
| timelyx | anyway, on regional trains, i used to use my laptops | 00:29 |
| tigert | but its jabber on the go | 00:29 |
| tigert | whcih is nice | 00:29 |
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| zerojay | I was about 10 minutes away from home after leaving work early.. I got an MSN message from a coworker asking me how to commit to SVN. I told him to come to my desk. Boy was she ever fucking confused when she got there to see me not at my desk. I was sitting in a park laughing my ass off. | 00:30 |
| tigert | timelyx: I rather not get those funny looks from people :) | 00:30 |
| timelyx | tigert: Amtrak from DC to NY | 00:30 |
| zerojay | told her to come to my desk.. blah. | 00:30 |
| timelyx | you don't get funny looks | 00:30 |
| tigert | zerojay: last week I was late from a meeting | 00:30 |
| timelyx | you're in a car w/ a dozen or more other people doing the same thing | 00:30 |
| tigert | a coworked msged me with the same problem | 00:30 |
| tigert | we were on our way to work | 00:30 |
| tigert | luckily he remembered the meeting room number | 00:30 |
| tigert | so I got it from him while on the go | 00:30 |
| tigert | and could go there directly | 00:30 |
| tigert | that is what I mean | 00:31 |
| timelyx | same along the SJ=>SF corridor | 00:31 |
| tigert | or seeing whats going on in IRC when going off work | 00:31 |
| tigert | to see if people are planning some beers etc | 00:31 |
| tigert | its all about communication for me | 00:31 |
| alterego | Or panning your demise :P | 00:31 |
| timelyx | irc on our devices doesn't really work | 00:31 |
| timelyx | you can't attach to a conversation already in progress w/o screen | 00:31 |
| alterego | No, I can't dig IRC on the tablets. | 00:31 |
| tigert | timelyx: it TOTALLY does work | 00:32 |
| timelyx | and our behavior w/ screen is such a disaster | 00:32 |
| tigert | you just want screen + irssi | 00:32 |
| tigert | and ssh | 00:32 |
| timelyx | i use that. | 00:32 |
| alterego | It's okay with pidgin .. | 00:32 |
| timelyx | it's a royal pain | 00:32 |
| timelyx | otoh, i use 770/n800 | 00:32 |
| timelyx | and the stupid VKB keeps forcing full updates | 00:32 |
| tigert | I used it on N800 a lot | 00:32 |
| timelyx | because it pops up and then hides | 00:32 |
| zerojay | I was sitting in a nice little park near work on a hot day... my feet in a shallow waterpool, closing bugs while bitching to coworkers about how bad some of our testers can be. | 00:32 |
| tigert | use thumb kbd | 00:32 |
| timelyx | and the screen constantly resizes | 00:32 |
| zerojay | What a great day. | 00:32 |
| zerojay | I love my N800. | 00:32 |
| tigert | zerojay: yeah :) | 00:33 |
| alterego | If I get another device I'll probably use it as a remote control for my N800 | 00:33 |
| timelyx | zerojay: w/ the n810 you can use it while not in the shade :) | 00:33 |
| timelyx | or so the rumor goes | 00:33 |
| tigert | it's this "be wherever you want, but you are around" without hauling the laptop along -thing that is nice | 00:33 |
| timelyx | it was snowing today | 00:33 |
| timelyx | we won't be able to test until may | 00:33 |
| tigert | timelyx: haha | 00:33 |
| alterego | N800 has oodles of storage capacity and makes a good media player. I'd use another tablet as a remote for it so it didn't have to come out of my trouser pocket. | 00:33 |
| timelyx | tigert: i keep saying it, but you know it's true | 00:33 |
| zerojay | timelyx: and without a virtual keyboard either. My N800's got light circular marks from me using the virtual keyboard so much. | 00:34 |
| tigert | zerojay: yeah | 00:34 |
| tigert | in a grid | 00:34 |
| timelyx | zerojay: my 't' key is busted on my laptop | 00:34 |
| zerojay | Staggered grid, yep. | 00:34 |
| alterego | My screen protector is scratched to death :) | 00:34 |
| zerojay | timelyx: Hehe. I remember. | 00:34 |
| timelyx | i was also among the first to really wear the n800 proto screens :) | 00:34 |
| timelyx | otoh, they claim that's "fixed" | 00:35 |
| * timelyx still hasn't installed system software w/ that "fix" | 00:35 | |
| Robot101 | timelyx: it's pretty impressive difference actually | 00:35 |
| timelyx | the fix supposedly makes web browsing (among other things) much more painful :) | 00:35 |
| alterego | I think the scroll area is the worst for wear on my protector. | 00:35 |
| zerojay | Every single scrach on my screen comes from the stylus. | 00:35 |
| alterego | It doesn't bother me enough to get a new one though. | 00:35 |
| zerojay | scratch | 00:35 |
| alterego | Yeah, those things are sharp .. :) | 00:35 |
| timelyx | Robot101: it wouldn't have to be a big change to be impressive | 00:36 |
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| timelyx | Robot101: but it really does cause big problems for the web browser | 00:36 |
| tigert | I am loving the N810 keyboard though, no more resizing of THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD | 00:37 |
| tigert | :) | 00:37 |
| timelyx | all of a sudden, simple things like "click and hold" ... | 00:37 |
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| zerojay | I'm hoping I'll be able to get one of the discounts... even though I just found an 8GB SD card relatively cheap today. :/ | 00:37 |
| timelyx | tigert: you clearly haven't used the web browser enough | 00:37 |
| timelyx | try loading reader.google.com | 00:37 |
| timelyx | open the keyboard | 00:37 |
| timelyx | type 'gu' | 00:37 |
| timelyx | type n | 00:37 |
| timelyx | (test on desktop first) | 00:37 |
| tigert | timelyx: nah, the device is downstairs now :) | 00:37 |
| timelyx | it's not in your pocket!? | 00:38 |
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| tigert | hey, I just came from sauna, and I am wearing just this nice big towel | 00:38 |
| tigert | :))) | 00:38 |
| zerojay | lol | 00:38 |
| tigert | I aint got no pockets dude | 00:38 |
| zerojay | That's what your third leg is for. | 00:38 |
| zerojay | Hanging shit you need off of. | 00:38 |
| tigert | and I lost a lot of weight so I couldnt keep it under "the flaps" either | 00:38 |
| * timelyx thinks tigert's problem is that his place is too big, it has stairs! | 00:38 | |
| zerojay | Hahahaha | 00:38 |
| zerojay | The flaps. | 00:38 |
| tigert | :) | 00:38 |
| alterego | Hah | 00:39 |
| alterego | That's disturbing | 00:39 |
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| timelyx | so, i still need a link for "In the beginning" | 00:40 |
| timelyx | i'm trying to decide if http://www.inthebeginning.org/about.html would work | 00:40 |
| timelyx | anyone have a better suggestion? | 00:40 |
| * timelyx thinks it's actually a bad chioce | 00:41 | |
| timelyx | s/io/oi/ | 00:41 |
| infobot | timelyx meant: anyone have a better suggestoin? | 00:41 |
| timelyx | did not! | 00:41 |
| * timelyx kicks infobot | 00:41 | |
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| tigert | oh my g-d | 00:41 |
| tigert | http://blogoscoped.com/bible/ | 00:41 |
| tigert | not this one | 00:41 |
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| timelyx | heh | 00:42 |
| tigert | timelyx: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201&version=31 ? | 00:43 |
| tigert | king james might be better for the style though | 00:44 |
| tigert | but it's all there | 00:44 |
| * timelyx tries http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201;&version=9; | 00:44 | |
| timelyx | tigert: in the dropdown, what do you see above "The westminster leningrad codex"? | 00:45 |
| timelyx | i see: | 00:45 |
| timelyx | (he) [eyin][yud][vet][resh][yud][taf] | 00:46 |
| timelyx | (that's of course unhelpful given that the yud's are symmetric...) | 00:47 |
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| tigert | timelyx: hebrew characters | 00:56 |
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| tigert | that I cannot read | 00:56 |
| timelyx | http://ctho.ath.cx/tmp/hebrew.png | 00:56 |
| timelyx | something like that, or in the reverse order? | 00:56 |
| tigert | like on your screenshot | 00:57 |
| tigert | why? | 00:57 |
| timelyx | because the order's wrong | 00:57 |
| timelyx | (it's backwards) | 00:57 |
| timelyx | which is odd, because the text is correct | 00:57 |
| tigert | ltr instead of rtl? | 00:57 |
| timelyx | yeah | 00:57 |
| timelyx | it's just the menu item that's bad | 00:58 |
| tigert | maybe because the rest of the meny is mostly western chars? | 00:58 |
| * timelyx shrugs | 00:58 | |
| timelyx | even the mouseovers are correct | 00:59 |
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| * timelyx ponders | 01:00 | |
| timelyx | is contributing to a christian site something i shouldn't do? | 01:01 |
| * alterego ponders on a program to write for maemo | 01:01 | |
| alterego | Anyone got any requests/ideas? | 01:01 |
| zerojay | alterego: Actually, now that you mention it... | 01:02 |
| alterego | Well, spit it out. | 01:02 |
| skibur | ideas for what? | 01:04 |
| zerojay | I invited you to a channel because I can't just send msgs yet.. been too lazy to register. | 01:04 |
| alterego | An application for me to write. | 01:04 |
| tigert | timelyx: I guess it's totally up to you | 01:05 |
| tigert | :) | 01:05 |
| skibur | I don't get it | 01:07 |
| tigert | alterego: you are looking for ideas for a cool app? | 01:08 |
| timelyx | ? | 01:08 |
| skibur | I'm looking for MC on Maemo.org and I find it, but I can't download it | 01:08 |
| timelyx | welcome to maemo.org :) | 01:08 |
| skibur | BUT, I can find it on my Nokia N800 Application manager. | 01:08 |
| alterego | tigert, yeah. Pretty much. | 01:08 |
| skibur | Where is the Manager pulling the application download from? | 01:09 |
| timelyx | skibur: you can view the catalog list in the tools menu or something | 01:10 |
| legind | when trying to install kagu, I get this: File "/usr/lib/kagu/remote.py", line 15, in remote / os.mkfifo(FIFO) #create fifo / OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory | 01:11 |
| skibur | yeah I know, but where are the updates coming from? | 01:11 |
| legind | any ideas? | 01:11 |
| legind | or, that's trying to *run* kagu. | 01:12 |
| alterego | It's typical really. I work really hard on getting ruby-maemo up and running so I can build cool apps for maemo in Ruby. And now it's at the stage where it's very usable I can't think of anything to create :/ | 01:14 |
| timelyx | see, you should have thought of that before you spent time porting/packaging something no one actually uses =b | 01:17 |
| alterego | :( | 01:18 |
| alterego | The porting took no time. | 01:18 |
| alterego | It was binding it to the various libraries that make Maemo that took the time :P | 01:18 |
| p| | if someone need it: http://www.zamprogno.it/files/inadyn-1.96.2.tar.bz2 | 01:27 |
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| legind | how do I get modules to load at bootup without /etc/modules? do I have to make a /etc/init.d script? | 01:51 |
| skibur | GPE download? Where can I get it? | 01:52 |
| skibur | http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/ ? | 01:52 |
| skibur | hello? | 01:54 |
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| astro76 | skibur, add the Kernel Concepts repo listed here http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories | 01:58 |
| p| | legind: i think it is the best thing | 01:59 |
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| legind | p| cool thanks | 02:01 |
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| p| | <alterego> Anyone got any requests/ideas? | 02:32 |
| p| | gui ftp client ? | 02:32 |
| p| | (gftp ?) | 02:32 |
| p| | filezilla ? | 02:32 |
| p| | or grisbi (financial app) | 02:33 |
| alterego | grisbi? | 02:33 |
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| alterego | What would you use a GUI FTP client for? | 02:33 |
| alterego | I didn't think anyone used FTP anymore .. | 02:33 |
| legind | sftp client | 02:34 |
| legind | or at least fix fuse | 02:34 |
| alterego | Now that I can dig :) | 02:35 |
| p| | alterego: upload files on my site ? | 02:36 |
| p| | :) | 02:36 |
| alterego | You use FTP for that? | 02:36 |
| alterego | Old skool .. | 02:36 |
| legind | hey p|, where you live? | 02:36 |
| legind | hehe | 02:36 |
| p| | lol | 02:36 |
| p| | Italy | 02:37 |
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| legind | do you happen to have a non-WPA connection per chance | 02:37 |
| legind | ;) | 02:37 |
| p| | alterego: what are you using ? | 02:37 |
| alterego | scp | 02:37 |
| alterego | HTTP post | 02:38 |
| legind | p| FTP passwords are sent in plaintext | 02:38 |
| alterego | Depends what I'm uploading. | 02:38 |
| p| | ha :) | 02:38 |
| alterego | I just wrote a cute little app that stops the AVLS from kicking in when you plug in headphones. | 02:38 |
| alterego | Unfortunately it has the side effect that it wont allow the volume to be under 100% in any circumstances. But that doesn't bother me .. ^_^ | 02:39 |
| alterego | Easily fixed too but I think it's fine how it is. | 02:39 |
| alterego | Now to make my CPU/Mem applet rainbow coloured. | 02:39 |
| lopz | re | 02:40 |
| alterego | re? | 02:40 |
| playya_ | deer in germany | 02:41 |
| alterego | Heh | 02:41 |
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| p| | good night to all :) | 02:42 |
| b0unc3 | ciao p| ;) | 02:42 |
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| p| | ciao b0unc3 :) | 02:43 |
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| playya_ | so tried to port compiz/beryl to port to n800 :P | 02:44 |
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| alterego | O_o | 02:45 |
| alterego | And you expected it to work? | 02:45 |
| * alterego customises his boot up logo. | 02:47 | |
| alterego | This is how bored I am! | 02:48 |
| derf | That was one of the first things I did! | 02:50 |
| b0unc3 | somebody wants to test https://garage.maemo.org/projects/wizard-mounter/ ? | 02:51 |
| b0unc3 | only in svn atm | 02:51 |
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| alterego | I think the first thing I did hacking wise was ruby-maemo. | 02:52 |
| alterego | Well, ruby-hildon | 02:52 |
| _Monkey | i heard ruby-hildon was port of hildon bindings in ruby language is also http://alterego.freeshell.org/projects/ruby-maemo/ | 02:52 |
| alterego | How do I change _Monkey? | 02:52 |
| alterego | Anyhow, after that I enabled the 'restart' function in the systemui menu. | 02:53 |
| skibur | for GPE I need to install all of that ---> http://downloads.kernelconcepts.de/maemo3/dists/bora/free/binary-armel/ | 03:00 |
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| skibur | where can I download libxau0? | 03:50 |
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| b0unc3 | skibur: it's on repo | 03:52 |
| b0unc3 | skibur: http://repository.maemo.org bora/free | 03:53 |
| skibur | do I have to be root to install? | 03:53 |
| b0unc3 | skibur: yes | 03:53 |
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| skibur | :( | 03:53 |
| b0unc3 | if it's not listed on the application manager... | 03:53 |
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| legind | how do you open that dialogue to lock screen, turn off etc from command line | 04:10 |
| legind | the button stopped working... | 04:10 |
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| dowellconning | Heyas~ | 06:09 |
| dowellconning | Is it advisable to upgrade a 770 to the IT OS 2007 edition? Flash / Skype support sounds good to me :P | 06:10 |
| dowellconning | Is it a streamlined process or is it very difficult though :| | 06:10 |
| dowellconning | Meep, my WLAN isn't accepted anyway :| | 06:12 |
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| dowellconning | Oh wait, there we go | 06:14 |
| dowellconning | Has anyone had any bad experiences with this? | 06:15 |
| dowellconning | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithmacosx/ Can I use this method with the N770 IT 2007 HE? | 06:20 |
| dowellconning | I think I'll wait a while, the main thing for me is getting skype running :| | 06:21 |
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| lopz | re | 07:22 |
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| skibur | hello? | 08:25 |
| timelyx | olleh? | 08:26 |
| zoran | hm, failed to refresh package list. repository is prohibited for access. | 08:34 |
| timelyx | heh | 08:36 |
| zoran | known issue? | 08:36 |
| timelyx | no. which repository? | 08:36 |
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| zoran | repository.maemo.org/pool/ | 08:37 |
| zoran | gregale | 08:37 |
| _Monkey | i guess gregale is something else entirely | 08:37 |
| zoran | the same "locutus" as on gein.vistech server? | 08:40 |
| onion | eh, any nokian might like to check their press release rss.. it contains a "Test test test release" | 08:42 |
| timelyx | url? | 08:42 |
| onion | Test test test release | 08:42 |
| onion | http://www.nokia.com/pressrss/rss.xml | 08:42 |
| timelyx | nice | 08:43 |
| * timelyx sighs | 08:43 | |
| onion | yeah.. a bit funny :) | 08:43 |
| timelyx | well, it's nokia.com, not nokiausa.com | 08:43 |
| timelyx | no one should care | 08:43 |
| zoran | heh! | 08:43 |
| timelyx | sorry, the first thing i do when i read Nokia content is decide whether it's en-US | 08:44 |
| timelyx | on average, it isn't, | 08:44 |
| timelyx | at which point, why in the world should i bother? :) | 08:44 |
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| onion | timelyx: well, the "Press" link on nokiausa.com goes to nokia.com | 08:45 |
| timelyx | oh fsck | 08:45 |
| timelyx | ok ok, i'll get on it | 08:45 |
| onion | :D | 08:45 |
| timelyx | "idiots" | 08:45 |
| * timelyx was afraid of that | 08:45 | |
| onion | timelyx: you can give me a N810 as a "thank you"... ;) | 08:46 |
| timelyx | i might send you a tshirt | 08:46 |
| onion | hih | 08:46 |
| * timelyx does that more frequently | 08:46 | |
| timelyx | when i give out hardware, i have fairly high expectations | 08:47 |
| timelyx | (which reminds me, i need to check up on the one device i gave out) | 08:47 |
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| zoran | what is secure place to get simple theme for nokia phone? | 09:05 |
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| timelyx | zerojay: you're jablet? | 09:29 |
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| skibur | :) | 09:45 |
| skibur | blue and red pill | 09:45 |
| skibur | :) | 09:45 |
| zoran | hm, temperature? | 09:46 |
| skibur | ? | 09:46 |
| zoran | aspirine? | 09:46 |
| skibur | downloading applications manager hidden option | 09:46 |
| skibur | I like the red pill | 09:46 |
| zoran | yes, it is cool | 09:47 |
| zoran | but, I found repository not just hidden, but impossible to get | 09:47 |
| skibur | finally download the libs I needed to run Gnumeric | 09:48 |
| skibur | Gnumeric is pretty good | 09:48 |
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| skibur | good night | 09:49 |
| skibur | later | 09:50 |
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| pupnik_ | gnumeric? | 09:56 |
| _Monkey | gnumeric is the gnu spreadsheet http://www.maemo.org.br/platform/apt/pool/user/g/gnumeric/ | 09:56 |
| zoran | gnome 2 spreadsheet | 10:01 |
| zoran | depends: goffice, psiconv, python? | 10:02 |
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| * czr peeks | 10:45 | |
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| zerojay | timelyx: Yeah. | 11:14 |
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| zerojay | Along with Texrat. | 11:14 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:31 |
| czr | morn jaffa | 11:31 |
| czr | damn. realized something very scary just now | 11:32 |
| czr | it's almost a month now since I started working with maemo. | 11:32 |
| * czr hides & runs | 11:32 | |
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| unique311 | the n810 is on h shelves? | 11:39 |
| unique311 | the* | 11:40 |
| Jaffa | NAFAIK. And it's a Sunday. Why do you ask? | 11:40 |
| unique311 | waiting on this damn OS update. | 11:41 |
| unique311 | my n800 has been off for 4 days now. | 11:41 |
| unique311 | and i wan't a reason to turn it on. | 11:41 |
| unique311 | sorry just very impatient. | 11:42 |
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| Jaffa | I see. Unlikely to be launched on a Sunday ;-) | 11:42 |
| unique311 | had a go at an iphone the other day....but prepaid was hard to setup..so i sold it.. | 11:42 |
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| unique311 | had a go at an itouch...that went to my sister after using it for an hour. | 11:46 |
| unique311 | must say besides looking really good...i don't see the big deal behind the 2 | 11:46 |
| unique311 | gets alot of attention.... | 11:47 |
| * Jaffa thought the exact opposite after playing with a both: here's a well-thought out device with attention to detail. Some of the corners of IT OS 2007, in comparison, are just a little crufty... | 11:47 | |
| unique311 | thought the exact opposite on the looks of the iphone and itouch? | 11:49 |
| Jaffa | On why I could see they were a big deal. There are very few rich, usable, pretty mobile UIs in existence. | 11:49 |
| unique311 | ok | 11:49 |
| unique311 | both devices wee given to me.....made some cash on one.....and guessing my sister lovers me more because of the other one. | 11:53 |
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| Jaffa | Successful transactions, then ;-) | 11:53 |
| unique311 | pretty much. | 11:53 |
| unique311 | pupnik you around? | 11:55 |
| pupnik_ | sup | 11:57 |
| unique311 | what do you think of steven colbert running for president | 11:59 |
| pupnik_ | i don't like him doing it, it's a bad joke | 12:00 |
| pupnik_ | things are much too serious now | 12:00 |
| unique311 | not too sure if its a joke. | 12:00 |
| unique311 | you getting the PM's | 12:02 |
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| unique311 | basically sending out a strong message...but being a comedian it is going to be taken as a joke. | 12:05 |
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| svu | anybody knows when the decision on dev's 810 would be announced? | 12:22 |
| Jaffa | The day of that they go on sale. | 12:22 |
| Jaffa | s/of // | 12:22 |
| infobot | Jaffa meant: The day that they go on sale. | 12:22 |
| svu | Jaffa, which is ...? | 12:24 |
| Jaffa | Unknown. | 12:24 |
| Jaffa | Still "mid-November" | 12:24 |
| svu | :) | 12:24 |
| svu | ok thanks | 12:24 |
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| pupnik_ | AT&T text-to-speech rocks the house | 13:01 |
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| alterego | I find computers that talk disconcerting. | 13:03 |
| alterego | Strange .. My ex-girlfriend said the same thing about me. | 13:03 |
| czr | alterego :-) | 13:04 |
| alterego | So .. I started work on a Todo application | 13:05 |
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| alterego | I figure people seem to want one other than GPE and I need to test ruby-maemo more. Plus it's a good project to test some ideas I have on infrastructure. | 13:05 |
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| czr | infrastrcture of what? | 13:06 |
| alterego | ruby maemo applications. | 13:07 |
| * czr nods | 13:07 | |
| alterego | I'm experimenting with MVC patterns | 13:07 |
| pupnik_ | sorry my todo is whatever paper lies in my wallet | 13:08 |
| alterego | :) | 13:08 |
| alterego | That's pretty much the same with me pupnik_ | 13:08 |
| czr | a nice multiplatform synchronizing offline/online time tracking/todo thingy would be nice | 13:08 |
| alterego | I have about 50 todo lists in fifty different pockets and machines. | 13:08 |
| pupnik_ | i tried doing day planning with my las job | 13:09 |
| alterego | czr, that's what I've got in mind. | 13:09 |
| pupnik_ | and it was more trouble than it was worth | 13:09 |
| pupnik_ | but i know some poeple can really use such things | 13:09 |
| czr | alterego, I'll buy you beer or other evil beverage if it works properly (and I like it ;-) | 13:09 |
| alterego | :) | 13:09 |
| pupnik_ | but then it's all about integration | 13:09 |
| alterego | Yeah, I need something that is accessible from my desktop, as well as from my mobile devices. | 13:10 |
| pupnik_ | seeing when coworker will be available - coworker can add a delay to her schedule and the other people in company immediately get notified that she won't be at the meeting | 13:10 |
| pupnik_ | etc | 13:10 |
| alterego | Yeah, that's long term ideas .. | 13:10 |
| alterego | Different application too :P | 13:10 |
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| pupnik_ | leave that stuff to domain specialists | 13:10 |
| czr | same beer though :-) | 13:11 |
| alterego | Screw domain specialists. | 13:11 |
| alterego | They can't code :oP | 13:12 |
| czr | yup. just look at the source code of bind! | 13:12 |
| * czr hides & runs | 13:12 | |
| alterego | Hahah | 13:12 |
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| alterego | How do priorities normally work? Just three symbolic levels or full numeric customisation? | 13:15 |
| alterego | I was thinking: 'low', 'medium' & 'high' .. | 13:15 |
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| czr | latter is probably enough | 13:16 |
| alterego | Right, keep it simple and work on functionality later. | 13:16 |
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| czr | it's not like you're doing a workflow application suitable for cross-team work anyway | 13:17 |
| czr | indeed | 13:17 |
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| db48x | what's the easiest way to change the dns server my n800 uses? | 13:26 |
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| alterego | Good question. | 13:26 |
| alterego | The only way I can think of is editing /etc/resolv.conf | 13:26 |
| alterego | Which isn't exactly friendly. | 13:27 |
| alterego | If you set your connection settings manually then you can set it there. | 13:27 |
| db48x | I tried that, but sadly I'm unable to log in as root | 13:27 |
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| alterego | There being the "Connection Manager" .. | 13:27 |
| db48x | ahh | 13:28 |
| db48x | you can access that even for one you haven't created manually | 13:29 |
| alterego | Cool. | 13:29 |
| alterego | Good to know. | 13:29 |
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| db48x | hmm | 13:30 |
| db48x | still no dice | 13:30 |
| db48x | I hate this wireless "router" | 13:30 |
| alterego | Heh | 13:31 |
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| db48x | this is the third time in three weeks that it's simply lost all of it's settings | 13:33 |
| alterego | That's not good. | 13:34 |
| db48x | nope | 13:34 |
| db48x | I think I'm going to have to find one that I can run OpenWRT on, then return this one | 13:34 |
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| alterego | Hmm .. My windows aren't getting grouped. | 13:51 |
| eichi | hello, is there a way do install maemo in qemu? | 13:51 |
| alterego | _in_ qemu? | 13:51 |
| alterego | eichi, do you have scratchbox installed? | 13:52 |
| eichi | no | 13:53 |
| alterego | Well, check the Maemo SDK out. | 13:54 |
| alterego | scratchbox comes with the qemu target needed to use the Maemo SDK | 13:54 |
| eichi | i want do port od try some apps in maemo without killing my n800 all the time and with better screen etc | 13:54 |
| alterego | Install the SDK. | 13:54 |
| alterego | How else would you expect to develop software for Maemo? | 13:54 |
| eichi | i never did development für an device | 13:56 |
| alterego | You should read the Maemo tutorial. | 13:56 |
| alterego | You should also read the Maemo introduction too. | 13:56 |
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| bedboi | hi all | 13:57 |
| alterego | Aloha | 13:58 |
| alterego | Lets see how this works .. | 13:59 |
| alterego | Oh, that's nice. | 13:59 |
| eichi | in the install.txt of maemo sdk there is a sentence "you need a running maemo 3.1"...where? | 13:59 |
| alterego | eichi, read the tutorial. | 13:59 |
| eichi | which one? | 14:00 |
| _Monkey | i guess which one is it? :) | 14:00 |
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| alterego | Well, presumable you're using OS2007 on the N800 so you should read the 3.X tutorial. | 14:00 |
| alterego | s/presumable/presumably | 14:00 |
| eichi | ah i have found it | 14:00 |
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| xadap | hi ;( | 14:28 |
| xadap | :) * | 14:28 |
| alterego | Heh | 14:28 |
| alterego | Hello | 14:28 |
| xadap | can I ask a simple question? | 14:29 |
| alterego | Only if it really is simple ;) | 14:30 |
| xadap | haha | 14:30 |
| xadap | look | 14:30 |
| xadap | tomorrow i'll have a nokia 770 at home | 14:31 |
| alterego | Cool | 14:31 |
| xadap | i know its operating system is based on linux | 14:31 |
| alterego | Yes, debian Linux | 14:31 |
| xadap | but since reviews say that it's quite poor, i wanted to improve it | 14:32 |
| SLi | GNU/Linux ;) </troll> | 14:32 |
| xadap | i've seen the maemo project | 14:32 |
| xadap | i'm sorry lol | 14:32 |
| SLi | What's poor? | 14:32 |
| alterego | Reviews have said what's poor? | 14:32 |
| alterego | I thought the maemo reviews have been good .. | 14:32 |
| xadap | it looks like the software available when you acquire it | 14:32 |
| alterego | Overall. | 14:32 |
| xadap | yeah,, the reviews about maemo are excellent | 14:33 |
| alterego | Yes, the software is somewhat limited. | 14:33 |
| alterego | There are some really good packages though .. | 14:33 |
| xadap | so, is maemo kind of another operating system, based on debian too? | 14:33 |
| alterego | Kind of yes. | 14:34 |
| alterego | Targeted at embedded devices. | 14:34 |
| xadap | that's what i was looking for,then | 14:34 |
| SLi | Mm, it's not an another OS really. | 14:34 |
| xadap | so, do you know any tutorial that explains where to start when i get my nokia? | 14:34 |
| SLi | Just supplemental packages for the Nokia provided system. | 14:34 |
| alterego | Try the tutorials on maemo.org :) | 14:35 |
| SLi | I have an N800 with OS2007, I must say the email client that came with it is useless, the RSS reader shows really often old stuff as new and crashes often, the browser crashes often, but other than those things, the system seems pretty solid. | 14:35 |
| xadap | on mameo website i've seen developing stuff :P | 14:35 |
| alterego | Hah | 14:35 |
| alterego | Yeah, I don't like the email or RSS client much either. | 14:35 |
| alterego | The browser doesn't crash too often for me. | 14:35 |
| alterego | I have other issues with the browser. | 14:35 |
| alterego | Well, what were you looking for? | 14:36 |
| xadap | a guide that explains what do i do after buying the device, from a user point of view | 14:36 |
| SLi | I consider it somewhat ironic that old stuff on the garage.maemo.org (which AFAIK is maintained by Nokia) RSS feed is nearly always displayed as new in Nokia's own RSS reader :P | 14:36 |
| alterego | Use it? | 14:36 |
| xadap | i've only found developing documentation | 14:37 |
| SLi | Well, it's a pretty full-fledged Linux. | 14:37 |
| xadap | not a manual about maemo | 14:37 |
| xadap | but a guide to install it | 14:37 |
| alterego | Well, a manual comes with the device. | 14:37 |
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| alterego | It's already installed. | 14:37 |
| * alterego is confused. | 14:38 | |
| xadap | mee to :P | 14:38 |
| xadap | I thought I had to install something completely different | 14:38 |
| xadap | like flashing the device | 14:38 |
| alterego | Your best bet is to just ask what you would like to do and we point you in the right direction ;) | 14:38 |
| alterego | Ah, you can update the 770 to a newer OS if need be. | 14:38 |
| xadap | that's what i want! :D | 14:39 |
| alterego | The flashing instructions are on the Wiki | 14:39 |
| xadap | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ | 14:39 |
| xadap | his one? | 14:39 |
| xadap | this* | 14:39 |
| alterego | You'll want to update it to OS2007 HE (hacker edition) | 14:39 |
| alterego | Yes | 14:39 |
| alterego | flashing | 14:39 |
| alterego | flasher | 14:39 |
| xadap | haha thanks! | 14:39 |
| _Monkey | flasher is probably available from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com | 14:39 |
| alterego | Check out that link. | 14:39 |
| alterego | too | 14:39 |
| xadap | thank you :) | 14:40 |
| alterego | No problem. | 14:40 |
| * alterego continues working on his todo app. | 14:40 | |
| xadap | ;) | 14:40 |
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| muu | re | 14:44 |
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| db48x | wifi is so infuriating | 14:55 |
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| db48x | so is debugging an internet connection without the aid of dig, ping and traceroute | 14:59 |
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| zerojay | Get a decent router and you'd find wifi as beautiful as the rest of us. | 15:02 |
| alterego | :D | 15:03 |
| alterego | I've got a cheap buffalo router. Had it for about 5 years and I've never had a single problem with it. | 15:03 |
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| db48x | yea, I'm about to set this one on fire | 15:04 |
| db48x | I just need to find a good accelerant | 15:04 |
| alterego | Well, my todo app is coming along nicely. | 15:06 |
| alterego | Should have a BETA late afternoon :) | 15:07 |
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| db48x | (as an aside, I'm not _usually_ driven to mindless violence by appliances) | 15:07 |
| alterego | :) | 15:07 |
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| muu | 'giorno | 15:24 |
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| blue4j | anyone running php/sqlite on n770/n8x0? | 16:11 |
| blue4j | bye | 16:14 |
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| Jiten | he didn't have much patience. | 16:28 |
| alterego | Who does. | 16:31 |
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| halley | Any support for PyOpenGL on Nokia? Even if slow? | 16:36 |
| * alterego chuckles. | 16:37 | |
| halley | That a no? | 16:37 |
| ilrepo | my module-init-tools don't get upgraded when i go from 3.1 -> to 3.2. anyone else experiencing the same? there's some unmet dependency | 16:38 |
| alterego | ilrepo, that's fine. | 16:38 |
| ilrepo | so everything should still work? i'm just getting to know maemo | 16:38 |
| alterego | Yes, | 16:38 |
| ilrepo | oh okay. thanks | 16:38 |
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| halley | I've seen mentions of PyGame but not any GL. | 16:39 |
| alterego | Sure, I believe PyGame is available. | 16:39 |
| halley | I just want to do ~30 polygons, not like a Quake or something, but if there's no GL at all... | 16:40 |
| * alterego chuckles. | 16:40 | |
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| alterego | Try compiling Mesa | 16:40 |
| alterego | You might be able to get some OGL capability out of it. | 16:41 |
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| halley | I don't have any tablet yet, just considering an 800 if my app idea has a chance. | 16:41 |
| alterego | Well, in the future we may get 3D accelerated OpenGL | 16:42 |
| alterego | You can always wait until then :) | 16:42 |
| alterego | The processor in the N8x0 have a Power VR 3D accelerator which supports the embedded OpenGL platform. Unfortunately the drivers are not available right now. | 16:42 |
| halley | Does Nokia help with that? | 16:45 |
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| alterego | We're subject to their mercy in that regard. | 16:49 |
| alterego | It may be possible to throw a few triangles around with Mesa in the meantime though | 16:49 |
| halley | Seems if they have a 3D accelerator, it's a selling point to have a few classes that mimic the basics that Core Animation does. | 16:50 |
| alterego | Well, hopefully they'll get us the drivers sooner rather than later. | 16:51 |
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| * alterego asks santa. | 16:52 | |
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| L0c-|Mobile| | re | 16:53 |
| alterego | re? | 16:53 |
| alterego | What is with all this 're' .. | 16:53 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | re-gards | 16:53 |
| halley | It's a leet way of saying "welcome back". | 16:53 |
| alterego | Ah | 16:54 |
| halley | Because only doofs on iWon web games use "wb" ;) | 16:54 |
| alterego | Well, my todo app is coming along nicely. | 16:54 |
| _Monkey | i already had it that way, alterego. | 16:54 |
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| alterego | Think I might release a BETA a little later. | 16:54 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | alterego, todo app? | 16:55 |
| alterego | Yes, I'm writing a Todo app for maemo. | 16:55 |
| alterego | http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_001.png | 16:55 |
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| halley | What's the package management on Nokias like? The Zaurus' use a .ipkg format with minimal dep management. I had debian on a Vaio. | 16:56 |
| alterego | It uses .debs | 16:56 |
| alterego | They seem to do the job. | 16:57 |
| halley | Good apt repo community? | 16:57 |
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| alterego | Not sure what you mean. | 16:57 |
| halley | When rx_task is done, will it be painless for people who don't know you to find/install it? | 16:57 |
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| alterego | Yes. | 16:58 |
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| alterego | They just click on the deb and it installs. | 16:58 |
| Jaffa | halley: see http://downloads.maemo.org/ | 16:58 |
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| Jaffa | And the extras repository comes pre-configured in IT OS 2008 | 16:58 |
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| alterego | Though they have to install Ruby first :) | 16:58 |
| halley | So folks like alterego have no problem getting their debs on this repository? | 16:58 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Well, hopefully it'll all be uploaded to extras ;-) | 16:59 |
| alterego | My karma is aweful. | 16:59 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | alterego, i think what we really need is a powerful 'today' screen | 16:59 |
| alterego | L0c-|Mobile|, all in due time :P | 16:59 |
| Jaffa | halley: theoretically, no problems, no. However it's historically been a bit painful/ambiguous/not well documented | 16:59 |
| halley | Jaffa, political or just confusing? | 16:59 |
| Jaffa | Confusing. i.e. when I last tried, the packages failed the automatic sanity checks but it wasn't clear why. Had to talk to ferenc directly, which isn't very scalable. | 17:00 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | i mean one like pocketbreeze on WM devices | 17:00 |
| alterego | L0c-|Mobile|, I've not heard of that. | 17:01 |
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| alterego | I get what you mean though. | 17:01 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | alterego, wich dev. lang. ? | 17:01 |
| alterego | ruby-mameo | 17:01 |
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| alterego | s/mameo/maemo/ | 17:01 |
| infobot | alterego meant: ruby-maemo | 17:01 |
| halley | This lists a Quake II install. Wonder what they did. | 17:01 |
| alterego | halley, software | 17:01 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | with ppocketbreeze i have all on screen , toodo,appointments,contacts usin a simple multitab concept | 17:02 |
| alterego | Yeah | 17:02 |
| alterego | Sounds cool. | 17:02 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | but i know... | 17:02 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | n800 isn't a pda ;) | 17:02 |
| alterego | No, it's better. | 17:03 |
| Jaffa | Only due to lack of software | 17:03 |
| alterego | It's a computer | 17:03 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | yep | 17:03 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | but without a good today gh. | 17:03 |
| alterego | :) | 17:03 |
| alterego | Task is a test. Once it's complete I plan on working on a full PIM suite with group management capabilities. | 17:04 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | wow grate | 17:04 |
| alterego | Management/Collaboration | 17:04 |
| alterego | But "RX Task" is a nice starting point. It's functional and it will help be discover the kind of infrastructure these applications will have. | 17:05 |
| alterego | s/be/me/ | 17:05 |
| infobot | alterego meant: But "RX Task" is a nice starting point. It's functional and it will help me discover the kind of infrastructure these applications will have. | 17:05 |
| alterego | Grrr .. | 17:06 |
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| alterego | infobot ignore me | 17:06 |
| * infobot sticks her fingers in her ears. "La, la, la! I can't hear you, alterego!" | 17:06 | |
| alterego | Wow .. I wasn't expecting that to work .. | 17:06 |
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| halley | "Please, install this new version that it haven't this bug. Sorry for it. It's to silly bug :(" | 17:08 |
| * halley twists his face in pain. | 17:08 | |
| alterego | O_o | 17:08 |
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| L0c-|Mobile| | can i have access to sources (i'd like to learn ruby on maemo ;) | 17:16 |
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| alterego | They're all in the repository. | 17:20 |
| alterego | Oh, do you mean sources for RX Task? | 17:20 |
| alterego | Sure, when it's released :) | 17:20 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | gh | 17:20 |
| lopz | re | 17:21 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | what is the right line to follow to learn ruby on maemo ? | 17:21 |
| alterego | Well, | 17:21 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | i meam what i must read before ? | 17:21 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | ciao lopz | 17:22 |
| lopz | hola | 17:22 |
| _Monkey | hi, lopz | 17:22 |
| alterego | It'd be wise to have a good overview of Hildon and the Maemo platform. | 17:22 |
| alterego | Read all my random ramblings in what little documentation I have. | 17:22 |
| alterego | When unsure about the API check the source :) | 17:22 |
| alterego | I'll write a tutorial soon I promise :) | 17:23 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | i need also to learn ruby... so you have time ;) | 17:23 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | so i need to learn ruby, than gtk, than learn about maemo ? | 17:25 |
| alterego | Yes, that would be a good way to go. | 17:25 |
| alterego | Though Gtk/maemo can be learned in parallel. | 17:25 |
| halley | I think the "download a project, learn to build it, then figure out what every file is FOR" route works best. :) | 17:26 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:26 |
| alterego | Can't say I've ever taken that approach. | 17:27 |
| halley | I've never learned a language by picking up the book and starting at page 1. | 17:27 |
| alterego | No, I can't say I've done that either. | 17:28 |
| alterego | Well, actually. | 17:28 |
| alterego | SICP .. | 17:28 |
| halley | I gotta say, I learned a lot in electrical engineering when we implemented a microprocessor from discrete logic. But after that, it's all "I want to do this, that thing almost does this, what can I tweak?" style learning. | 17:29 |
| alterego | Yeah, I'm a grounds up kind of guy. | 17:30 |
| alterego | I don't tweak other peoples apps, but I'm happy to use their libraries. | 17:30 |
| alterego | In an ideal world MVC would make that very easy indeed :) | 17:30 |
| alterego | Porting applications would be pretty simple and just require work building custom UI's. | 17:31 |
| halley | I think mvc is overrated; model/interface is usually enough. | 17:31 |
| halley | Separating view from controller tends to get in the way of natural interaction. | 17:31 |
| alterego | Well, I disagree .. | 17:31 |
| alterego | When a project gets big enough. If the view hasn't naturally decoupled itself from control logic then you're going to have problems. | 17:32 |
| alterego | Sure, they're very close. But a view should only hold internal logic. It should know anything about the actual application. | 17:32 |
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| alterego | But whatever, I'm a believer that a good programmer will make the correct choices without having to worry about specific paradigms. | 17:33 |
| alterego | People have different styles of coding. | 17:33 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | mmm | 17:34 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | i tthink i must learn also makefile... | 17:35 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | (if i want to make a deb....) | 17:35 |
| alterego | It might be useful, especially when creating debian packages. | 17:35 |
| alterego | But it really isn't anything special :) | 17:35 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | man make iiis enough ? | 17:36 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | fuc#inng bt keyboard.. | 17:36 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | hope SO2008 can use usb keyb. | 17:36 |
| halley | Anyone use that laser projected bt keyboard? | 17:36 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | this bt keyb. work pretty well BUT, better if you don't use it with a bt phone... | 17:37 |
| L0c-|Mobile| | otherwise you see thing like "hhhelppp mmeeee" :) | 17:38 |
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| timelyx | halley: i tried ordering it but didn't manage to get the po approved :( | 17:39 |
| Jaffa | w | 17:42 |
| Jaffa | Doh | 17:42 |
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| if | anyone know something why I can't install packages in sb2 with "sb2 fakeroot dpkg -i fontconfig_2.4.1-1osso2_armel.deb", it builds fine but couldnt be installed :\ | 18:19 |
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| Jaffa | if: what happens? | 18:26 |
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| if | Jaffa: sec. | 18:46 |
| if | I forgot to mention what happens: dpkg: error processing fontconfig_2.4.1-1osso2_armel.deb (--install): package architecture (armel) does not match system (i386) | 18:46 |
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| alterego | You've compiled it in the wrong scratchbox target. | 18:46 |
| alterego | Oh wait. | 18:46 |
| if | nope | 18:47 |
| alterego | You're trying to _install_ this in the wrong target. | 18:47 |
| alterego | Are you working in the SDK> | 18:47 |
| alterego | ?? | 18:47 |
| if | I'm using sbox2 | 18:47 |
| alterego | SDK_X86? | 18:47 |
| _Monkey | i guess SDK_X86 is running x86 binaries, SDK_ARMEL is running arm binaries. At least that's how the installer sets the targets | 18:47 |
| if | sb2 runs ARMEL binaries fine | 18:47 |
| alterego | Yes, you're trying to install the wrong package in the wrong target. | 18:47 |
| if | like sb2 ./iperf just runs the same iperf that runs on my n800 fine. | 18:48 |
| alterego | That package wasn't built for your current target. | 18:48 |
| alterego | You're in SDK_X86, that package will only install on SDK_ARMEL | 18:48 |
| if | sbox2 doesn't have SDK_X86 | 18:49 |
| alterego | O_o | 18:49 |
| if | just SDK_ARMEL | 18:49 |
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| alterego | Well, that's what's wrong. | 18:49 |
| if | i told you, $ sb2 ./iperf runs an armel binary fine, so it's armel target | 18:49 |
| alterego | So why is the package manager reporting you're on an i386 based system? | 18:50 |
| if | that's what I'm searching answer of :) | 18:50 |
| alterego | sb2 isn't supported by maemo. Why did you come here? | 18:50 |
| alterego | You'd probably do better in the scratchbox channel .. | 18:50 |
| if | I wait there for answer too :) | 18:51 |
| if | just in case someone know here. | 18:51 |
| alterego | Hmm | 18:51 |
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| alterego | http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_002.png | 19:25 |
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| zoran | nice png | 19:29 |
| alterego | I'm having trouble making a functional list view. | 19:29 |
| alterego | But the Task/Todo app is coming along nicely I think :) | 19:30 |
| zoran | what is the input list? | 19:30 |
| alterego | Input list? | 19:30 |
| zoran | hm, what list should be sorted? | 19:31 |
| alterego | The list of todo's | 19:31 |
| zoran | aha | 19:31 |
| alterego | ;) | 19:31 |
| zoran | do you need something small and simple? | 19:31 |
| alterego | Yeah | 19:31 |
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| alterego | I've been experimenting with GtkExpanders bit they break easily. | 19:32 |
| zoran | alterego: zoran.nipl.net | 19:32 |
| zoran | take the very first link and go to "duties" | 19:32 |
| alterego | Is it Gtk? :) | 19:33 |
| zoran | :) , no | 19:34 |
| zoran | should it be? | 19:34 |
| alterego | Well, I'm writing a graphical Todo app for Maemo. I'd say so :) | 19:34 |
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| zoran | small job for computer, so I let it do what it wants | 19:35 |
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| alterego | Getting tempted to use those tree views again. | 19:36 |
| alterego | Oh no! | 19:36 |
| alterego | Kidding. | 19:36 |
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| alterego | I have an idea .. | 19:37 |
| * alterego goes back to emacs. | 19:37 | |
| zoran | he-he | 19:37 |
| zoran | if the input is ascii, it is easy to sort, change etc with shell script or perl | 19:38 |
| alterego | Oh, that's not the problem. | 19:38 |
| alterego | The problem is _displaying_ the data. | 19:38 |
| alterego | Formatting sorting that's all sorted ;) | 19:38 |
| Jaffa | alterego: what about the OpenMoko list widget (complete with finger scrolling) | 19:38 |
| alterego | I'll have a look. | 19:38 |
| Jaffa | No, that's not the pointhttp://www.guardiani.us/index.php/N800_custom_packages#OpenMoko_Scroll_Widget_Example | 19:39 |
| alterego | Is there a version for maemo? ;) | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | alterego: yes :) | 19:39 |
| zoran | I had today duties the time of booting and logging into the shell with using file parse and puting positive results on the screen | 19:39 |
| alterego | Well, I'm hesitant to use that Jaffa as it's an extra dependency for users. :/ | 19:40 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Depedencies aren't a problem. It's repositories which suck - and there's going to be a big push to consolidate them all in extras with Chinook. | 19:41 |
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| zoran | heh, opera mini for nokia phone about 100 kb! | 19:41 |
| Jaffa | Besides, that's just a proof-of-concept: a proper implementation and packaging and Ruby bindings would be cool. That'd be a USP of Ruby-Maemo (at least for a while) | 19:42 |
| alterego | Well, I'll keep it in mind. | 19:42 |
| alterego | Okay, I think I've got something almost nice now :) | 19:43 |
| alterego | GtkExpander is the key .. I know it is :D | 19:45 |
| zoran | for some time no ideas about java on maemo | 19:49 |
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| ol_schoola | ok, i got gainroot and xterm installed | 20:07 |
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| ol_schoola | when i apt-get update it kicks back The following signatures are invalid..." for Nokia release | 20:11 |
| ol_schoola | can someone refresh mew on how to pull in the proper sigs? | 20:12 |
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| alterego | Gtk can be a pain in the ass sometimes .. | 21:51 |
| alterego | Okay .. Most of the time. | 21:52 |
| alterego | Fuck it, I'm using a tree view .. | 21:53 |
| milhouse | seen timeless | 21:56 |
| _Monkey | timeless was last seen on #maemo 2 days, 21 hours, 30 minutes and 37 seconds ago, saying: too [Thu Nov 1 22:25:51 2007] | 21:56 |
| milhouse | seen timelyx | 21:57 |
| _Monkey | timelyx was last seen on #maemo 4 hours, 17 minutes and 31 seconds ago, saying: halley: i tried ordering it but didn't manage to get the po approved :( [Sun Nov 4 15:39:39 2007] | 21:57 |
| milhouse | better | 21:57 |
| milhouse | mr timeless - you about? :) | 21:57 |
| milhouse | someone in bugzilla needs a bitch slap :D | 21:58 |
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| gnarvaez | hello. Anyone have information if the way BT keyboard input will be processed differently in 2008? I am considering starting to write a small applet to control some basic features, but would like to spend my effort on what will work in a couple of weeks | 22:03 |
| milhouse | I would expect a BT keyboard to function in OS 2008 the same as it does in OS 2007 | 22:04 |
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| cbx33 | hi guys, I saw a post about getting metasploit running on the n800 and it talked about a custom ruby package | 22:05 |
| cbx33 | anyone got any ideas? | 22:05 |
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| alterego | A _custom_ Ruby package? | 22:05 |
| cbx33 | apparently | 22:06 |
| alterego | What's metasploit? | 22:06 |
| _Monkey | metasploit is probably hard on the IT | 22:06 |
| cbx33 | hard on the IT? | 22:06 |
| halley | Oy. | 22:06 |
| alterego | Well, ruby is http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ | 22:06 |
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| cbx33 | _Monkey, what did you mean? | 22:07 |
| _Monkey | bugger all, i dunno, cbx33 | 22:07 |
| cbx33 | metasploit is a penetration testing kit | 22:08 |
| cbx33 | I have to run security audits occasionally and thought I'd try it on my n800 | 22:08 |
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| gnarvaez | if I am not mistaken, the BT handling is changing to BlueZ... I thought the BT stack was chaning and that the HID handling would be done through new libs....[of course, I can't remember at the moment the exact libraries] | 22:09 |
| milhouse | the BT stack already is BlueZ | 22:09 |
| milhouse | always has been as far as I'm aware | 22:09 |
| alterego | What has metasploit got to do with Ruby? | 22:10 |
| gnarvaez | ok, I should read the docs a bit more carefully... and I hope the repeat problem gets addressed in the new OS | 22:10 |
| Andy80 | hi | 22:11 |
| _Monkey | privet, Andy80 | 22:11 |
| cbx33 | anyone done anywork on hacking the kernel | 22:12 |
| cbx33 | I was wondering if a usb rj45 adapter was on the cards yet | 22:12 |
| alterego | Never heard of them· | 22:12 |
| cbx33 | a cable adapter for networing | 22:13 |
| alterego | Well, I could guess what it is. I just don't understand why you'd want to use all this junk with a tablet. | 22:13 |
| alterego | It's really not suited to network investigation at all .. | 22:13 |
| cbx33 | because it's bloody portable | 22:13 |
| halley | I've never heard of usb/rj45, but I've seen them used as usb-extenders. | 22:13 |
| alterego | Well, for sure it's possible to get any USB device working. | 22:14 |
| alterego | Just takes a bit of time and effort. | 22:14 |
| halley | He's looking not for rj45 per se, but ethernet too. | 22:14 |
| alterego | Yes, I did realise that halley :P | 22:15 |
| halley | I'm just saying, it seems like an obvious thing but none on the market for ten years of usb. Probably a reason. | 22:15 |
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| alterego | Erm. | 22:16 |
| edistar | is there any way of using my macbook as a bt keyboard for my nokia? | 22:16 |
| alterego | I'm pretty sure I've seen USB 10/100 network adapters. | 22:16 |
| alterego | edistar, it's possible. But it's tricky. | 22:17 |
| alterego | I've not heard of anyone do it either. | 22:17 |
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| edistar | alterego: okey, then I won't waste too much time on that | 22:19 |
| edistar | :) | 22:19 |
| edistar | :( | 22:19 |
| Jaffa | There are loads of USB Ethernet adapters. Some of them might even work with Maemo | 22:19 |
| alterego | Obviously not important then. | 22:19 |
| alterego | If they work with Linux they'll work on the tablet. | 22:20 |
| alterego | It may involve you compiling a module though | 22:20 |
| Jaffa | Of course. | 22:20 |
| edistar | alterego: I will buy a nokia bluetooth keyboard, just wanted to test how it feels to use a bt keyboard | 22:21 |
| gla55 | edistar: use synergy | 22:22 |
| alterego | You were expecting to get that from using your Mac's keyboard? | 22:22 |
| gla55 | keyboard / mouse sharing app | 22:22 |
| edistar | alterego: yes | 22:22 |
| alterego | O_o | 22:22 |
| edistar | alterego: it's not onscreen | 22:22 |
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| edistar | can anyone recommend a keyboard, something like the freedom mini? | 22:26 |
| halley | I asked about the laser BT keyboard, but nobody had tried one firsthand. | 22:27 |
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| halley | I use the Apple BT keyboard on my MBP. | 22:27 |
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| edistar | ok | 22:30 |
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| milhouse | the laser keyboard works fine with the nokia tablets, the only trouble is they're horrible to use - try typing on the table top for five minutes and see how much your fingers hurt... | 22:31 |
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| halley | Anyone use any form of IME on Maemo? Japanese in particular? | 22:32 |
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| gnarvaez | edistar, I did not find the Nokia BT keyboard that reliable. Had one and returned it.. | 22:32 |
| gnarvaez | so far the one that seems to work the best for me (though it is not as portable) is the new apple BT keyboard | 22:33 |
| alterego | http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_003.png | 22:34 |
| alterego | It's getting there .. | 22:34 |
| halley | gnarvaez, the new one? The chicklet one or the clear tray one? | 22:35 |
| gnarvaez | the problem I am finding is that the key repeat rate and delay are too short, thereby producing an unnaceptable amount of repeat errors. I am trying to find a way to control this, but to no avail so far | 22:35 |
| gnarvaez | halley, the chicklet one (the same that is being used on the MacBook... I really like it) | 22:35 |
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| alterego | gnarvaez, change them then. | 22:36 |
| alterego | Change the delay that is .. | 22:37 |
| _Monkey | alterego: that doesn't look right | 22:37 |
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| halley | I can't imagine anyone liking the chicklet one. Nobody remembers the IBM PCjr then. | 22:37 |
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| gnarvaez | alterego, how? I have tried different approaches... xset770 does not seem to work (see bug #2166) | 22:37 |
| _Monkey | Bug 2166 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2166 | 22:37 |
| alterego | It's in gconf | 22:38 |
| gnarvaez | halley.... in my former life I used to design input devices... one of things that I like about this keyboard is that it has a short travel and a good tactile hysterises | 22:38 |
| gnarvaez | I never liked apple | 22:38 |
| gnarvaez | 's desktop keyboards, but their powerbook ones are quite good | 22:39 |
| halley | Their current laptop kbs suck. | 22:40 |
| gnarvaez | I am able to touch type at a good rate on it. | 22:40 |
| gnarvaez | maybe, but we are on keyboards.... | 22:40 |
| alterego | /apps/osso/applet/hwkeyboard/repeat_interval | 22:40 |
| p| | 'sera | 22:40 |
| alterego | It defaults to 160ms by the look of it. | 22:40 |
| gnarvaez | alterego, thanks.... let me look | 22:40 |
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| p| | <gnarvaez> the problem I am finding is that the key repeat rate and delay are too short, thereby producing an unnaceptable amount of repeat errors. I am trying to find a way to control this, but to no avail so far | 22:43 |
| p| | unresolvable... | 22:43 |
| p| | the same thing happens on my bt keyboard | 22:43 |
| alterego | p|, see what I just said. | 22:43 |
| alterego | It's in gconf | 22:43 |
| p| | no | 22:43 |
| p| | i've changed that parms | 22:43 |
| p| | whithout success | 22:44 |
| alterego | O_o | 22:44 |
| p| | i've set at 10.000/2.000 | 22:44 |
| p| | and the problem persist | 22:44 |
| alterego | It doesn't accept floating point. | 22:44 |
| alterego | And that's 10ms | 22:44 |
| p| | but ONLY when i'm using a bt phone as internet connection together with bt keyb | 22:45 |
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| alterego | Oh, that's probably a different issue then. | 22:45 |
| p| | alterego: i've set 10000/2000 | 22:45 |
| alterego | Interference between the devices. | 22:45 |
| p| | :) | 22:45 |
| p| | there are 2 params | 22:45 |
| alterego | Will likely cause disruption if they're on the same channels. | 22:45 |
| alterego | Yes p| I'm aware there are delay and repeat options. | 22:46 |
| p| | any chance to change chennel number ? | 22:46 |
| p| | channel* | 22:46 |
| alterego | Manually. | 22:46 |
| p| | where ? | 22:46 |
| alterego | You'd have to setup the BT connection between one of the devices in the console. | 22:46 |
| p| | isn't configurable in some cfg file legacy to bt address ? | 22:47 |
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| alterego | Possibly. | 22:48 |
| alterego | It some configuration file in /etc | 22:48 |
| alterego | Maybe under the bluetooth directory. | 22:49 |
| p| | i'll take a look | 22:49 |
| p| | tnks | 22:49 |
| p| | mmm | 22:51 |
| p| | hidd seems doesn't have any channel specs | 22:51 |
| p| | only btaddr or hci device | 22:51 |
| alterego | Maybe it's defaulting. | 22:52 |
| gnarvaez | alterego, excuse my ignorance, but I do not find any applet called "repeat_interval" | 22:53 |
| alterego | gnarvaez, it's a key in gconf | 22:53 |
| gnarvaez | [I am sure that I am making a basic mistake] | 22:53 |
| alterego | Install the gconf-editor and look under that path. | 22:54 |
| alterego | Probably the easiest way. | 22:54 |
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| gnarvaez | oh that! nope, no effect. Tried it many times, but will try it again | 22:55 |
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| gnarvaez | alterego, I tried again setting the repeat to 900 (.9 sec?) and the delay to 1200 (1.2 sec) and I don't see a difference. Also I noticed that when I connect to the bt gps, the keyboard is practically unusable. | 22:59 |
| alterego | Oh well. | 22:59 |
| gnarvaez | anyway, thanks for the information.... I am trying to understand how the bt keyboard gets processed.... I should go back to the docs (a few days ago, in the middle of the night, after trying a number of things, I filed a bug on this, it is #2166) | 23:01 |
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| gnarvaez | p, have you tried using xset770? | 23:14 |
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| p| | gnarvaez: nope | 23:21 |
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| p| | link ? | 23:21 |
| p| | ha ok | 23:21 |
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| gnarvaez | p|, I found the file that has the parameters to modify the repeat and delay, it is /var/lib/gconf/apps/osso/applet/hwkeyboard/%gconf.xml | 23:24 |
| gnarvaez | it just does not seem to have any effect | 23:24 |
| p| | gnarvaez: simply use gconf (GUI) | 23:25 |
| p| | it modify the same file | 23:25 |
| p| | (whithout success) | 23:26 |
| p| | i think it is a hid driver problem | 23:26 |
| alterego | I doubt that. | 23:26 |
| gnarvaez | xset770 is mentioned as a possible fix for the repeat/delay problem, but I don't seem to be able to set it properly (or maybe it does not work) See http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_SetupKeyboard | 23:26 |
| gnarvaez | but I don't see it having any effect | 23:27 |
| gnarvaez | p| yes, gconf-editor modifies the same file, I wanted to know what file it modified | 23:28 |
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| p| | i think the same you have said | 23:28 |
| gnarvaez | somehow I trust VIM a bit more than some GUI app | 23:28 |
| p| | hehe | 23:28 |
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| gnarvaez | p| it might be an HID problem, but because of the interaction with the GPS (I don't have other bluetooth devices) I am wondering if it might be a problem further down the protocol | 23:30 |
| alterego | You're paranoid. | 23:30 |
| gnarvaez | [stack] | 23:30 |
| gnarvaez | no... alterego, the door in my office is locked | 23:31 |
| p| | gnarvaez: does you kn work without gps ? | 23:31 |
| p| | your kb* | 23:31 |
| p| | the mine work ok without other connected bt devices | 23:33 |
| alterego | http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_003.png | 23:33 |
| alterego | Starting to come together now :) | 23:33 |
| p| | so i think it is not a repeat problem... | 23:33 |
| gnarvaez | p| yes, the kbrd works without the gps, but the delay and repeat are on the edge (if I use a Nokia su-8w keyboard, or a stowaway, it is next to unusable, with an apple BT kbrd it is pretty tolerable. If I have the GPS connected at the same time, any kbrd becomes unstable to the point that is unusable, though the GPS works fine) | 23:34 |
| p| | my stowaway is ok | 23:34 |
| skibur | RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.38-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin for n800 What are some features or upgrades on it? | 23:35 |
| p| | skibur: fix for sdhc corruption i think is the most important one | 23:35 |
| skibur | ? | 23:35 |
| skibur | what is for large amount of data sent? | 23:36 |
| alterego | It's the only one I heard. | 23:36 |
| p| | yes | 23:36 |
| alterego | Just SD driver fixes | 23:36 |
| skibur | was io ok | 23:36 |
| p| | gnarvaez: any way to 'submit' the keyboard bt problem ? | 23:38 |
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| p| | any bug repository ?? | 23:38 |
| gnarvaez | p|, look at bugs.maemo.org | 23:39 |
| gnarvaez | i filed one, it is #2166 | 23:40 |
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| ol_schoola | hi all, quick question about booting from internal flash... | 23:42 |
| ol_schoola | just finished the install/procedure, rebooted with message at top saying "booting from flash" | 23:42 |
| ol_schoola | how do i actually verify it is using the card? ls /media/mmc2 shows nothing | 23:43 |
| ol_schoola | file mgr indicates card is corrupted | 23:43 |
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| p| | gnarvaez: i've voted the bug | 23:58 |
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