IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-10-23

* alterego wonders if the Python GTK bindings implement Widget#show_all as a recursive method calling show, (in python) on all the children) ..00:00
alteregoThat would be insanity00:00
alteregoAnd also really dumb. Ignore me, I'm probably drunk.00:00
Jitendoesn't C-version of gtk+ have a show_all function?00:01
gla55alterego: fyi, theres also python for s6000:01
alteregogla55, ruby too ;)00:01
alteregoBut yes. I've been interested in playing with those on a Symbian device.00:01
gla55i just wish they would ship the vm's00:01
gla55with the phones00:01
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alteregoPython to JVM bytecode?00:02
gla55no, i meant ship the python environment with the phones00:02
JitenI could play with maemo or symbian. I chose to play with maemo. I've got 6120 classic and n800.00:02
gla55so it would be more feasible to do consumer apps with it00:02
gla55Jiten: probably keeps you saner00:03
alteregoI want to play with Maemo _and_ Symbian :)00:03
alteregoI want to get them to play together too.00:03
alteregoI'd love to splurt out my plans. But00:04
alteregoWell, I want to do them. So I don't want to risk other people doing it before I do :)00:04
* alterego hates reinventing the wheel.00:04
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alteregoThere's no doubt there's would be better than mine too.00:05
Jitenheh, I don't really mind others doing my ideas :)00:05
alteregoThen I'd get depressed.00:05
alteregoJiten, I'm used to that.00:05
alteregoSo far, no one seems to be working on the kinds of things that I've got planned.00:06
alteregoSo I'd rather I do them and get all the credit.00:06
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* Jaffa yawns00:06
alteregoI'm not after money. Just fame and women.00:06
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ds3is there a jpeg viewer that will handle really really big JPEGs?00:07
alteregoHas anyone noticed a bug with the notes application? Basically, when it's not fullscreen if the toolbar is being displayed. The menu popup that houses the buttons that don't fit on it don't show anything. Just a very small menu popup with very small _blank_ entries ..00:08
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sp3000alterego: serves you right for installing fonts with long names00:09
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alteregoI'm not sure whether it's worth submitting bugs for OS2007 as OS2008 is so close. And all the changes make these kinds of issues at least, not worth talking about until they show up in the new version.00:10
alteregosp3000, I wasn't aware I'd installed any fonts.00:10
alteregoWell .. Except those for osso-xterm maybe ..00:10
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Andy80hi again...from my n770 HE :)00:15
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chxhi. what do you think of mysql-server on N810? I have seen it's available in Debian for ARM00:20
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alteregoI can't think of a use for it. But obviously someone has.00:21
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chxalterego: I am a Drupal developer and I want a device to devel... everytime. I need a LAMP stack in my pocket. With a keyboard. Preferably with GPS. With wifi. That's N810.00:23
chxI was eyeing the N800 with sqlite but the N810 with a *keyboard* blows my socks00:23
chxalso, what's this with "up to 2gb internal memory" ? http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html00:24
TechJunkieI think they are just referring to the 2gb built in flash storage... comes loaded with a bunch of map data by default..00:25
chxI was heavily eyeing the openmoko but a small,small phone with bluetooth and an N810 (again, keyboard) seems much better00:25
Jitenchx: I think it's just funny way of saying, comes with 2GB sd-card welded under the hood00:25
chxah i see00:25
Jaffa...and that if you uninstall/delete the maps, you've got "up to 2GB"00:26
alteregoNokia are like that.00:26
chxso, if it's in Debian ARM, it's useable w/ N810 too?00:26
Jaffachx: agreed on the small phone and the tablet, though. Works well with my Sony Ericsson W850i00:26
Jitenah, right, map storage00:26
alteregoLike (up to 128Mb) (includes contact, messages, images, video blah blah blah,.00:26
TechJunkiewhat I want to know is if that  2gb is is mounted as /media/mmc2 :)  It would at least make a nice root partition.00:26
Jaffachx: you'll need to recompile as Maemo's using the armel EABI now, which Debian/ARM hasn't moved to (yet)00:27
JaffaThere's also some packaging weirdness, so this is where I plug mud-builder.00:27
alteregoTechJunkie, I'd imagine there will be a dual booting how-to pretty quickly.00:27
alteregoThe only packaging weirdness is user/* :P00:27
JaffaAnd XB-Maemo-Icon00:28
alteregoMaybe debhelper version and icon too.00:28
Jaffayeah :-p00:28
Jaffaanyway, don't stop me plugging my stuff - there's a device programme in effect ;)00:28
alteregoJaffa, yeah but the icon's are hardly important. Well, even if they are to me ;)00:28
alterego:)00:28
chxthx00:28
chxi am excited00:29
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* chx opens an envelope and puts $500 in it and labels N81000:29
alteregoI'm tired.00:29
chxgood night00:29
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alteregoG'night00:29
* alterego sleeps00:29
Jaffag'night00:30
koenchx should exchange that for euros00:33
koenwhen the n810 comes out the dollar will be even worth less that toilet paper00:33
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Jaffa1.2m iPhones in one quarter. FFS, that's good.00:33
GeneralAntillesIf only they had a bash prompt. ;)00:35
JaffaIt's mind boggling to me. I'd wager that's order of magnitude more than all Maemo devices put together have sold in 2 years.00:36
GeneralAntillesI'd really like to see some solid sales figure on the Maemo devices.00:38
timely_changelogyou won't00:39
GeneralAntillesDuh00:39
GeneralAntillesBut I can hope00:39
GeneralAntillesIt's telling that I've yet to see, hear or meet anybody with one in my day-to-day interactions.00:40
zerojayI haven't either, but almost everyone that sees me with it asks me about it.00:40
zerojayLast time I went out drinking, I had about 10 people crowding around just to watch me do a google search. :/00:41
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GeneralAntillesHa00:42
timely_changelogwell00:42
timely_changelogif you go to gnome confs00:42
timely_changelogyou'll see hem00:42
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* Jaffa was asked about his N800 on the train on the day of the N810 announcement. One of my colleagues has an N800, and I sold my 770 to another :-)00:57
Jaffazerojay: btw, dunno if you saw http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2007/10/22/on_demand_transcoding_server_initial_rel - but you expressed an interest about it on ITT00:58
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doug1what is the command to delete something from the terminal?01:34
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GeneralAntillesrm01:36
GeneralAntillesBecareful!01:36
dolskehmm, so, I've got the Maemo VM appliance running now... how exactly do I go about pulling and building the sources?01:36
dolskehttp://maemo.org/development/sources/ et al is... unclear.01:37
dolskeactually, hmm... timely_changelog: am I starting down the right path for building MicroB?01:38
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doug1hmmm01:38
jonohi all01:38
doug1rm can't remove directories01:38
jonoanyone know if it is possible to reset an n800 so all the software resets to the factory default settings?01:38
dolskedoug1: rmdir foo, or rm -rf foo.01:39
doublecdolske: I recently went through the pain of building microb if you need help01:39
dolskedoublec: have a cheatsheet? :)01:39
doubleci'm plannig to write a blog post about it, but haven't got around to it yet01:39
doug1dolske: thank you01:39
TechJunkiejono:  You just want it as if it was shipped to you fresh?01:40
jonoTechJunkie: yep01:40
TechJunkieWell you could just reflash it then with the latest OS image.... do you have a Windows or Linux PC ?01:40
doubleci used the bora sdk - which one are you using?01:40
dolskedoublec: should be bora, I just grabbed the preinstalled VMWare appliance that  should have the basic environment all there...01:41
doublecok, grab the microb source from svn01:42
doublecbut pull all of it, not just microb-engine01:42
doublec(because you want libidl too)01:42
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TechJunkiejono: http://europe.nokia.com/A430501001:42
doublecsvn co https://garage.maemo.org/svn/browser/mozilla/trunk/01:43
doublecor get trunk/libidl and trunk/microb-engine01:43
dolskeaha, just saw http://browser.garage.maemo.org/docs/build_howto.html01:43
doublecyeah, but you need to do more than is listed there01:43
doublecYou need to build libidl first for example01:43
timely_changelogfile a bug :)01:44
doublectimely_changelog: good idea - i'll do that :)01:44
timely_changelogbugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Browser01:44
jonoTechJunkie: thanks01:44
jonoI am trying to install skype and there are lots of missing dependencies01:45
timely_changeloghow are you rying to install skype?01:45
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jonotimely_changelog: loading it from the web browser download link and it loads in the application manager01:45
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dolskesvn: PROPFIND of '/svn/browser/mozilla/trunk/microb-engine': Could not resolve hostname `garage.maemo.org': Temporary failure in name resolution (https://garage.maemo.org)01:46
jonotimely_changelog: any idea how I fix this?01:47
dolske?! Firefox is working fine.01:47
TechJunkiejono:  Just to be clear, that wizard download from Nokia will walk you through re-flashing the N800 with the latest OS.  But you will loose any configuration, apps you've installed, etc.  It's literally a "fresh start".01:47
timely_changelogdolske: do you have dns properly configured?01:47
timely_changelogusually nswitch.conf or something is corrupt01:47
jonoTechJunkie: cool, thanks01:47
timely_changelog(doesn't list dns)01:47
timely_changelogdolske: the other version of this is that you don't have dns in the other file...01:48
jonoTechJunkie: have you done this on linux?01:48
timely_changelogjono: wiki.maemo.org covers flashing moderately well...01:49
doublecdolske: echo "hosts: files dns" > /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf01:49
doublecsee: http://www.linuxmachine.net/2007/07/developing-on-the-n800-part-one/01:49
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dolskewhat exactly is scratchbox? a VM?01:50
jonook I will flash it01:50
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* jono goes to find a USB cable01:50
timely_changelogdoslke: a messed up chroot01:50
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timely_changeloghow it works depends on which emulation kit you use01:51
timely_changelogqemu is one choice, sbrsh is another01:51
timely_changelogin some cases it will actually run the commands on a real device01:51
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dolskecat /etc/resolv.conf01:57
dolskenameserver 127.0.0.101:57
dolskewrong! now to figure out where that resolv.conf is actually at :/01:57
timely_changelogdolske: i said it was one of two problems\01:59
timely_changelogthat's the other one :)01:59
timely_changelogusually, you can copy the system one into sb01:59
dolskeok, now we're going...02:00
dolskeError validating server certificate for 'https://garage.maemo.org:443':02:01
dolske - The certificate is not issued by a trusted authority. Use the02:01
dolske   fingerprint to validate the certificate manually!02:01
dolsketimely: still owe you a bug on that :-)02:01
dolskeoh, hmm, in this particular case it seems to be svn's stupidity, FF trunk loads that fine.02:02
zerojayJaffa: I happened to see your announcement this morning actually. I haven't tried the server yet, but it looks promising. I'll probably play with it later on tonight. Thanks for the heads-up. ;)02:03
dolskedoes building for armel imply I'll have to copy binaries to my device to test with, or is there an emulator in this thing?02:04
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doublecthere's an emulator02:05
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doublecbut i've not tried it personally02:05
timely_changelogyou can try using qemu02:05
timely_changelogbut it won't work w/ various things02:05
dolskehmm, so I guess I should target x86 until I feel like going through the  hassle of testing on a device?02:05
timely_changelogand is officially unsupported02:05
dolskedo most things work equally well on x86 vs armel, or is that going to give me hardaches too? :)02:06
doublecx86 seems to work quite well02:09
doublecnot that I've stressed it much02:09
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dolskeHmmm... "fakeroot apt-get build-dep microb-engine" I guess the "fakeroot" bit implies that's run outside of scratchbox?02:16
TPCstupid human body needing sleep02:18
doublecdolske: you run that inside scratchbox02:18
dolskeHmm. "E: Unable to find a source package for microb-engine" is there a different repository for microb?02:21
dolskeI already have a "deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ bora free non-free extras" entry...02:21
doubleci didn't bother running that actually02:22
doubleci went straight to the buildpackage02:22
doublecand retrieved dependancies when it reported the error02:23
doublecwhich you'll get when it asks for libidl-dev02:23
dolske> fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -nc02:24
dolskedpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open debian/changelog to find format: No such file or directory02:24
doublecare you in directory microb-engine/microb-engine02:24
dolskeno, should I be?02:24
doublecyes02:24
dolskeugh, that's entirely unclear.02:25
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doublecit mentions it on the howto page :)02:25
dolskeSort of... it's under a "Debian Environment, desktop/scratchbox:" header, whatever that means02:26
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dolskedpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libidl-dev quilt bc libcairo2-dev02:27
dolskedpkg-buildpackage: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.02:27
dolskedpkg-buildpackage: (Use -d flag to override.)02:27
doublecok, you need to build libidl02:27
doublecwhich you should have from the svn checkout02:27
dolskeyeah, I saw it scroll by.02:27
doublecso in the libidl directory02:27
doublecfakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -nc02:28
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dolskeHmm, that wants flex. :)02:28
doublecSee this page to fix that:02:29
doublechttp://www.scratchbox.org/wiki/Apophis-r402:29
jeremybflex?02:29
_Monkeysomebody said flex was (for 770) echo " http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free flex" >> /etc/apt/sources list && apt-get update && apt-get install flex02:29
doublecsearch for 'flex'02:29
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* jeremyb hears flex and thinks XUL and/or adobe thing02:29
doublecunder 'Crocodile'02:29
doublecflex = lexical parsing tool02:29
jeremyboh, hehe02:29
doublec:)\02:30
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doublecdolske: one you do that libidl should build02:30
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dolskeok, it's building now.02:31
doublecthen fakeroot dpkg -i libidl_foo_bar_baz.deb libidl-dev_foo_bar_baz.deb02:31
doublecthen change back to microb-engine/microb-engine02:31
doublecand do: fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -nc -d02:31
doublecnote the '-d' at the end02:31
doublecto ignore the other dependancies02:31
dolske"foo_bar_baz" literally?02:32
doublecno :)02:33
doublecvarious version numbers and architecture names02:33
dolskeyou've lost me, where am I supposed to get that from?02:34
doublecthe .deb files should be in the current directory, created by the build02:35
doublecor one directory up, I forget02:35
doublecfind .. -name "*.deb" -print02:36
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dolskeoh, they're in ../ wtf?02:36
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dolskeis microb-engine/tarballs/mozilla.tar.gz all the Nokia patches?02:39
dolskeoh, hmm, crapped out again:02:39
dolskeCouldn't find quilt. Please install it or add it to the build-depends for this package.02:39
dolskemake: *** [patch-stamp] Error 102:39
doublecdid you add the -d to buildpackage?02:39
doublecso it ignores dependancies?02:39
dolskeyeah, it chugged for a bit with a screen or two of output and then died.02:41
dolskeapt-get install quilt works from the host, so I guess I need to hack scratchbox to add it?02:42
doubleci'm pretty sure i didn't have to do that02:42
doublecstrange02:42
* doublec checks02:42
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doublecwhat does fakeroot apt-cache search quilt show?02:45
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doublec(from scratchbox)02:45
dolskenothing.02:45
dolskeI'm using the scratchbox that came with the VM, maybe it's older?02:46
doublecmine says: quilt - quilt from scratchbox02:46
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doubleccould be02:50
doubleci installed from scratch02:50
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massoudEhlo again there02:54
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massoudI was wondering how can I add an "extra" menu for the new apps installed (ssh, ...)02:55
massoudwith my n770 2007 FW edition02:55
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massoudfor instance ssh client (osso) is installed but I don t see how can I acces the bin to run a xterm ?02:56
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massoudI don t see how can I add the extra menu ?03:15
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pupnikmassoud - i dunno about 2007 - is there a task navigator in Control panel?03:16
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massoudpupnick : I check03:17
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massoudI don t see it hmm03:20
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dolskewow, scratchbox is not exactly tiny. 176MB!03:29
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tmccraryDoes the N810 actually come with a built in FM transmitter? I've seen it mentioned on a few websites, but I don't see any of the official docs mention it.03:35
tmccraryI am looking forward to upgrading my N77003:35
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TPCtmccrary, no, there is no built in fm transmitter03:39
celestehthe 800 ras an fm receiver.  maybe there's confusion about that?03:39
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TPCone page listed it as an add-on you could buy, some other site read it wrong and listed it as built in, then it spread to a few more places, one of which you probably read it on03:39
tmccraryah, that sucks, but I suppose an add-on will do. Thanks for clearing that up for me :)03:40
tmccraryIs there anyword on when the general public will be able to buy one of these? I've only seen "November"03:41
TPCmid november, not anything more specific than that03:42
zerojayWouldn't be surprised if it was a month to the day of the announcement.03:42
TPCaltought you really should consider getting a N800, the price on them have dropped recently, and the hardware is almost the same03:42
TPCits really worth getting instead if you can live without keyboard and GPS03:43
TPC(can always get an external GPS)03:43
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dolske*sigh*04:05
dolskeI updated scratchbox to try and fix the quilt problem, and now dpkg-buildpackage disappeared.04:05
dolskeLooks like "try building MicroB" will go back to the bottom of the to-do list, maybe tools will be more usuable in a month or three. :(04:06
doublecwhat instructions did you follow to install scratchbox?04:11
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doublecI followed this: http://www.linuxmachine.net/2007/07/developing-on-the-n800-part-one/04:11
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pupnikI think the 810 looks byootiful.04:34
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* jeremyb wonders if timelyx has such problems with it (or if he wrote it for that matter)04:39
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pupniki need to hear the fceu-test report on N80004:42
pupniki mean N81004:43
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doublecI added a bug about the build documentation for microb: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=215205:01
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lopzbye07:04
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fASG@find solutions07:52
fASG@find solutions07:53
fASG!search solutions07:53
fASG!help07:53
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jeremybfASG: you think there's a mind reading bot in here?08:00
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pupnikif you have a question ask it fASG08:05
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ulpeoh man i hate this09:24
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ulpehow do you reset the password in canola...09:24
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Zvjermorning10:26
_Monkeyaloha10:26
Veggen(pet peeve: Why does _Monkey respond to those?)10:29
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Veggen...and *who* owns _Monkey? (never got a reply on that one :)10:30
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sciboyHi fab!11:03
* flip^ drifts in11:04
fabhi sciboy11:04
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timely_changeloghello #maemo12:22
timely_changelogin case people are curious, it does seem to be /almost/ possible to browse https://maemo.org/profile/view/12:23
_MonkeyHmm.  No matches for that, timely_changelog.12:23
timely_changelog?12:23
timely_changeloganyway, steps:12:23
timely_changelog1. search garage: https://garage.maemo.org/search/?type_of_search=people&words=com&Search=Search12:23
timely_changelog2. pick a name, e.g. zion12:24
timely_changelog3. load https://maemo.org/profile/view/zion.html12:24
timely_changelog(searching for 'tom\ seems to work better than 'com')12:25
c0ffeehum hum12:28
c0ffeeSPASS 3.0 for n800 :)12:28
c0ffeean pretty advanced automated theorem prover12:29
c0ffeealso most non-trivial problems will probably hit the resource limits of the n800 faster than you can say bleep12:29
DRoBeRHello again12:29
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b0unc3hi12:43
_Monkeyque tal, b0unc312:43
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unique311wikipedia asking for donations...wow12:58
unique311why not just put up a couple of google adds...12:59
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bansteenhello every one13:12
bansteeni can't drag divs in the web browser13:12
bansteennot in google map too13:12
zerojayFile a bug.13:13
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bansteennokia n800 has dragging capabilities13:13
Jitenoh that's right. I was thinking about filing a bug on that but I forgot after I noticed google maps data showing perfectly fine in maemo mapper.13:13
bansteenbut why cant i drag in google map13:14
bansteendragging doest not work in any website13:14
zerojaymaybe it's because dragging usually activates scrolling.13:14
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bansteendo u know any solution pal13:19
bansteenzerojay:?13:19
zerojayYes.13:20
zerojayFile a bug.13:20
bansteenzerojay:lol13:21
bansteenzerojay:I have a deadline today13:21
bansteenzerojay:but i will file a bug13:22
sp3000it works in microb, so...13:22
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bansteensp3000:r u sure?13:25
bansteensp3000:i have it installed13:25
zerojayYeah, if the bug is on Opera, it's just not going to be fixed.13:25
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bansteeni have microb but still i cant drag divs or google map13:25
bansteeninside micro b browser13:25
bansteeni select the engine opera to micro b13:26
bansteenor microb to opera13:26
bansteenit does not change13:26
bansteenit always stays microb13:26
zerojayIt just doesn't change which is selected by default in that menu.13:26
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zerojayIf you want microb, select it and then restart your browser.13:27
bansteenyes13:27
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bansteenwill dragging work then13:27
zerojayTry it.13:27
zerojayWorks for me.13:27
bansteenok trying13:27
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bansteenthnks man13:31
bansteenits working13:31
bansteenthnks a lot13:31
zerojayenjoy.13:31
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Jitenah, right, you can already install microb. I guess I should try it.13:37
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lardmanmorning13:41
_Monkeyaloha13:41
lardmanAnyone with knowlege of mmus out there?13:41
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lardmanI'll even take people with a vague idea of what they are... :)13:43
zerojaymemory mapping unit?13:44
lardmanyep13:44
* zerojay wins a ceee-gar.13:44
lardman:)13:44
mgedminany prizes for the second place?13:45
lardmanDoes anyone know how mmus can share memory - i.e. the ARM mmu and the DSP mmu somehow share memory - this may be by exporting the DSP memory space via a /dev entry (/dec/dsp/mem or something like that)13:45
zerojayA free beta of the Microb browser. ;)13:45
lardmanif that's true, the kernel would be talking to the DSP's mmu13:46
alteregoDoes the DSP have an MMU?13:47
lardmanI ask because I've run out of TLB's on the ARM side, and was wondering why. It appears that the ARM mmu only maps 0x10000 bytes of memory to a single tlb13:47
lardmanalterego: yes13:47
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alteregoInteresting.13:47
lardmanalterego: http://focus.ti.com/dsp/docs/dspsupporttechdocsc.tsp?abstractName=spru671&sectionId=3&tabId=40913:48
alteregoIt's okay, I believe you :P13:49
alteregoMy RSI is playing up a bit today :/ Might have to code with one hand.13:49
lardmanalterego: just for completeness' sake :)13:50
alterego:)13:50
lardmanAnyway, it appears that the DSP mmu can map in different sized chunks, I was hoping to map 0x100000 words (which the DSP mmu should do with a single tlb), but on the ARM side this is then mapped with lots of tlbs in 0x10000 chunks13:50
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alteregoRight13:51
lardmanas there are only 32 tlbs on the ARM (so I've read) and I'm getting an error, I thought I'd ask what on earth is going on - i.e. don't tlbs get reused (perhaps not in this case, hence the question about how memory is shared) and can't the ARM use a larger page size?13:52
alteregoI'd imagine that's a kernel thing.13:53
lardmanoh yes, this is all in the kernel13:54
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lardmanhmm, distinct lack of mmu-ishness atm14:17
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* alterego wonders if OS2008 will come out before the N81014:25
Robot101alterego: I think they'll be released at the same time, to flash on the N800 at the same time as the N810 comes out14:26
alteregoHmm,14:27
alteregoPersonally I think it'd be better to release it just before the N810 comes out/14:27
alteregoN800 owners will then have the option to update and those of use that are developing software can update and test.14:27
alteregoThen when everyones favorite apps are ready for maemo4 N800 owners can update and N810 owners will have packages ready and waiting :)14:28
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alterego:/14:32
sciboyWTF! The PDF reader doesn't save your spot when closing a document.14:34
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alteregoNope14:36
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sciboyWTF! The PDF reader doesn't save your spot when closing a document.14:39
sciboyAny suggestions?14:39
_MonkeyAny suggestions are welcome14:39
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alteregoHeh14:39
alteregoDon't close the PDF reader.14:40
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* sciboy checks the garage.14:43
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* alterego attempts to decide on the best way to make a new ruby/maemo website.14:45
JitenI managed to get my mnemosyne port to react as fast as the program menu pops up when you tap on it.14:51
Jitenno, I didn't optimize the code. I just made use of the gobject.idle_add function14:52
keesjalterego: in what sence?14:52
Jitenthere was one legitimate usage of cpu power and another (bigger) that I'd like to optimize away completely when I have time.14:54
alteregoWiki, news/blog, documentation blah blah14:54
Jitenno sense doing same calculations over and over again.14:54
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Andy80hi15:03
mbjohnhello15:03
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Andy80today my n770 with os2007 rebooted two times :(15:04
Andy80not so stable....15:05
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sciboyIs xmoto worth downloading?15:14
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keesjhaha :p15:16
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keesjI do play it sometimes, but it's a little slow15:17
keesjI really wonder how much faster it will be on the 81015:18
sciboyDoes it support ugly mode?15:18
keesjyes, but that doens't really speedup15:18
scriptis there any way to recover passwords on maemo.org? i cannot logon to my account anymore15:18
keesjstarting with 640x480 is better of even a little smaller15:18
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keesjscript: do you have you n800 now?15:19
scriptkeesj: ?15:19
scriptkeesj: i only have a 77015:19
sciboyShame it seems that nokia doesn't want to comit to 3d support.15:20
keesjsorry that was for sciboy :p15:20
sciboyYes15:20
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sciboyChatting to you on it.15:21
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sciboyAlthough there isn't any wifi reception in my room. =/15:22
GeneralAntillesObivously the only way is to setup up a Rails deployment on your N800, alterego. :P15:22
alteregoHah15:23
alteregoI guess all I really need is a simple wiki15:24
alteregoEverything else I can hack together in a few minutes.15:24
keesjhaha15:24
alteregofew minutes each ;)15:25
GeneralAntillesJust make it lightweight and functional.15:26
keesjyou should start writing software in ruby to write websites on the maemo platform15:27
alteregokeesj, I am.15:27
keesjgood!15:27
alteregoI'm writing an XML editor and a CSS editor which run standalone but are also embedded into a "Web Builder" application.15:28
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alteregoTargetted specifically at tablets :)15:28
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GeneralAntillesOoh, sounds cool.15:29
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Solarioncan maemo.org buy maemo.com please?  :)15:34
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pupnik_ignored15:39
keesjcall +82.313880888 and ask http://maemo.pastebin.com/m5c120bec15:39
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Solarionkeesj: is that for me?15:41
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alteregoGroovy.16:39
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lardmanhmm, anyone else having troubles with ITT forum access atm?17:26
Takseems ok to me - are you having trouble with something in particular?17:27
lardmanconnection is being reset17:27
lardmanah, just started working again17:27
* lardman shrugs17:28
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civodulHi!17:55
civodulanyone has experience with MUD?17:55
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TakMultiUserDungeon, or MaemoUnofficialDebs ?17:56
civodulthe latter  :-)17:56
mgedminI once built a single package with mud-builder17:57
mgedmindoes that count as experience?17:57
TakI built a few packages with mud-builder17:57
keesjwhat are the pins behind the 770?17:57
civodulmgedmin: sure  :-)17:57
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mgedminesp given that that was a long time ago and I forgot everything17:58
Takwhat I was really waiting for was autosubmission to garage extras17:58
civodulI'm trying to build Guile 1.8 and I fail miserably17:58
mgedminkeesj: serial console of some kind, afaiu17:58
keesjjtag?17:58
keesjcivodul: I can try to help later on today(I think I made moost of the mud packages)17:59
civodulwhat happens is that MUD fetches a bunch of dependencies and apt-get ends up failing17:59
civodulI suspect the dependency parser breaks: "Need extra deps: provided, Dependency, dpatch, texinfo, by"17:59
civodulkeesj: thanks, I'll keep trying in the meantime18:00
Takhmm, trac's side-by-side diff view needs some work18:03
disqmaemo garage needs trac :P18:05
civodulhow's one supposed to populate MUD's `sources.list'?18:05
Tak* needs trac :-D18:05
keesjcivodul: you can add one in you own mud file18:06
keesjcan you paste the mud file on http://paste-it.net/ ?18:07
civodulkeesj: "mud file"?  you mean the package'ss `.xml' file?18:07
* civodul must have missed something :-)18:07
keesjyes the xml file18:07
civodulok18:07
civodulkeesj: http://paste-it.net/410318:08
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keesjis there a source .deb you want to use?18:12
civodulkeesj: the one from Debian unstable18:13
keesjit looks like the standards debian repo used does not contain the file18:13
civodulkeesj: I tried adding a <deb-src> tag under <fetch>18:13
civodul<deb-src>http://ftp.debian.org/ unstable main</deb-src>18:13
civoduldoesn't do the trick, though18:13
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keesjcivodul: I will look a little more at home, I can't find the source debian file , not even on the web18:30
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keesjbuilding frmo source looks more promessing http://paste-it.net/4104/raw/18:31
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lopzhi18:34
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alteregoI am right in thinking that LibOSSO will be eventually replaced by muari?18:46
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keesjre19:07
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civodulkeesj: building from source looks cool, but one has to somehow tell it what the dependencies are...19:10
keesjI renamed the guile to guile-1.8 and it's now compiling19:11
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civodulkeesj: how about the dependencies?  readline, libltdl, gmp, etc.19:12
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civodulkeesj: BTW, ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/guile-1.8/guile-1.8_1.8.2+1.orig.tar.gz19:13
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keesjthe first error I met from building from source some other gnu package19:14
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keesjcivodul: some are "legal" deps and other "not so much"19:15
keesjgmp == general purpose mouse I guess that you need to "configure" your way out of these packages19:15
mgedminno, gmp is not gpm19:15
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keesjmgedmin: alright :p19:16
civodulkeesj: gmp = GNU Multi-Precision lib19:16
shaprI finally got a2dp working from my desktop.19:16
mgedmingmp is gnu multiprecision something or other, a library for calculating with very precise numbers19:16
keesjthis is where is end now http://paste-it.net/a4ce4ca19:16
shaprIn case anyone else wants to do a2dp from their desktop, I can help them through the rough spots.19:16
civodulhmm19:16
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civodulkeesj: I went with this: http://paste-it.net/4107/raw/19:17
keesjcivodul: and you named the file guile-1.8 ?19:18
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civodulkeesj: and it eventually failed like this: http://paste-it.net/4108/raw/19:18
civodulkeesj: yes, `guile-1.8.xml'19:18
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civodulkeesj: note borked line 1419:20
keesjOk I guess you show now contentrate on building gdbm the same way you do for guile19:20
keesjI see Jaffa ?19:21
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akai---hi19:22
_Monkeybonjour, akai---19:22
civodul//whois akai---19:22
civodulhe ;-)19:22
akai---http://www.geocities.jp/ono_tetsu/_gl_images_/tkzinc-demo1.jpg <-- do you know what theme is this?19:22
Takn800 default theme?19:23
akai---hmm19:23
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keesjcivodul: I have a different error message at the present time so it's hard to help you19:25
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civodulkeesj: it's the output of `dpkg-checkbuilddeps' that's not being parsed correctly in Debian.pm19:27
keesjand the tiger is a well known svg document :p19:28
civodulkeesj: for gdbm I get this: http://paste-it.net/4110/raw/19:28
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keesjok, so it should just not go on with these deps right?19:29
civodulsort of19:30
civodulit erroneously parses the lines "Dependency provided by Scratchbox"19:30
keesjthose are build deps anyway19:30
civodulso it thinks the package depends on "Dependency", "provided", etc.19:30
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civodulperhaps my `dpkg-checkbuilddeps' is not the right version or something19:30
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keesjit might be right I have a 3.2 sdk19:32
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civodulmine is from `maemo3-debian'19:32
civodul(the devkit)19:32
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civodulkeesj: I applied a simple patch against MUD that makes it parse the output of `dpkg-checkbuilddeps' correctly: http://paste-it.net/411119:37
civodulI was able to build libgdbm3 at least19:37
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GeneralAntillesGreasemonkey?19:41
GeneralAntillesSweet.19:41
GeneralAntilleshttp://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/3/19:41
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onionhmm, what package am I missing in chinook sdk as dpkg complain about maemo-select-menu-location not being installed ?19:50
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Andy80hi19:57
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lardmanhmm, I see the n810 has a different (hw) audio codec20:49
lardmanhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10730&page=620:49
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Atariihey, can sum1 just confirm whether microb works with 2007he or not?20:55
* Tak hasn't tried20:55
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snowmoonAtarii: haven't gotten up the nerve to try after how badly it botched 200620:57
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jon_I'm trying to use client certs in a web browser, is this possible?  The site says I'm not presenting any though the cert manager shows them installed...21:03
ds3does the USB port on the N800 supply power (any power)?21:07
ds3i know the 770 lacks power even in host mode21:07
TakI thought the power pins weren't connected on either model21:07
ds3oh :(21:08
lardmanI think the N800 probably does supply power21:08
* Tak not an authoritative source21:08
lardmanno-one's had got host working on the n80021:08
lardmanthough it looks like OS2008 makes it work21:08
ds3oh21:08
* lardman reads his sentence and cringes21:08
ds3thought all it was is a flasher option21:09
snowmoonlardman: you don't need a power injector to get host mode to work right anymore?21:09
lardmands3: take a look at my post to the maemo-devel list a few minutes ago, it has links to the dmesg output from an n800 with os200821:09
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lardmanI don't know either way, but the dmesg output indicates that the hub is powered21:09
ds3who's hosting the list currently? the handheld.org one seems to ahve expired in 200621:11
keesjds3: and there is some power on the usb-port (3.2 volt)21:11
lardmands3: link http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=84835&postcount=15921:11
ds3all I want is to be able to use a flash drive21:11
snowmoonself poweing would be a HUGE improvement21:11
keesjthat's my volt meter said , and I think it's authoritative, but I don't know how fast I will drop21:12
L0cutushello21:12
keesjworking host woudl be great21:12
L0cutusis nokia n800 usable as a pd a?21:12
Atariianyone going to game city on thursday?21:12
lardmanlooks like it does that too - usb drives - look at the rest of the dmesg output21:12
snowmoonL0cutus: Yes and no21:12
L0cutusi think i hae no need sync if it can make backups21:12
L0cutushave*21:13
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Jitenah, great, then there might be a way to use my usb-stick with my n800 soon?21:13
ds3hmmm 200mA power budget21:13
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Jitenas long as it doesn't eat too much power21:13
lardmanJiten: I think so21:13
ds3if that's the case, then all I need now is a tiny USB stick with a miniA connector ;)21:13
lardman:)21:13
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ds3think there are about 2 things left holding me onto a full laptop - usb sticks and being able to handle a DVD video21:14
keesjhaha21:15
ds3now if I can plug in a self powered DVD drive and the OMAP can decode it too....21:15
lardmanyes, that would be impressive21:15
keesjwhy not "recode" it first?21:16
keesjand what do you want to put on the usb stick?21:16
ds3keesj: how? I am talking about being able to be given a DVD at say a trade show and being able to watchit by just putting it in21:16
ds3the usb stick is for random notes and stuff, maybe PDF files21:17
Takyou just have to adopt a superior attitude21:17
Tak"Pff, DVDs, they're so 20th-century..."21:17
Atariiid like to be able to use external usb wireless cards21:17
ds3hehehe21:17
ds3Atarii: what kind of wireless?21:17
keesjI use the nokia's as stick some times21:17
Atariinormal wifi21:17
ds3what's wrong with the internal wifi?21:18
keesjI have this 4 gig sd card21:18
Atariithe drivers don't support packet injection21:18
ds3oh fancy stuff21:18
keesjI Think I wil enjoy the gps based stuff very much21:18
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Jitenthe reception in the internal wifi is quite good. too bad most access points have worse.21:19
ds3what's the most flexible USB WiFi stick available? I think the prism3 ones don't do much21:19
lardmanAtarii: check the usb modules list21:19
keesjI already did use a BT gps reciever with the 77021:19
Atariiflexible in what way ds3?21:19
ds3Atarii: being able to all kinds of stuff, host mode, sniffing, etc21:19
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TakI have a usb-stick-shaped SD/MMC reader that works well21:20
lardmanAtarii: rtl8150, cdc_ether net1080, plusb, rndis_host, cdc_subset, zaurus & usbtest21:20
keesjds3: I think that openmoko has a quite good page about that http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko21:21
Atariilardman im lost :(21:22
Atariilol21:22
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ds3keesj: thanks, that's good info.21:24
keesjnot all will be usb based but it's a good list IMHO21:24
ds3doesn't fully list the capabilities though21:25
ds3i miss the nonusb prisms being able to do almost anything21:25
keesjI guess you want to hack wifi networks!21:25
ds3no, I want to debug stuff21:25
ds3and I don't want to pay the megabux for a proper sniffer21:25
lardmanAtarii: those are the interface drivers listed in the dmesg with os200821:26
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Atariids3 any which use these drivers: http://aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=install_drivers21:27
ds3the N[78][01]0 devices would be great sniffers/test equipment21:31
Atariiindeed21:32
keesjthe 770 gets hot when running aircrack21:32
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sp3000that's ...multimodal feedback!21:33
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AtariiBlackbriar looks interesting21:46
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davisis there a way to do nfs root development with a n770? use the wifi connection as ethernet for it.22:06
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maximCThmm.. anyone know if there's some sort of "echo-test" for the N800 video call feature?22:10
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disqunfortunately there isn't22:18
lardmanhmm, atmasphere just posted to the list that the N810 usb port doesn't provide power out...22:19
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Tyborhi people, anyone got a "freedom universal keyboard"?22:24
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Andy80how can I post something to Planet Maemo?22:35
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sp3000post relevant stuff and get syndicated22:37
sp3000not sure how the latter is triggered22:38
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akai---hi -_-22:43
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Esworphey folks;  is there a pdf reader that'll display in portrait?22:50
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Esworpmoreso, is anyone fooling around with display rotation in general?22:51
flip^evince does rotation stuff22:53
zafjust tilt the device 90 degrees, the internal accelerometer will tilt it for you22:53
GeneralAntillesAlso: FBReader if you just need text.22:53
* zaf hides22:53
Esworphar de har ha22:54
* snowmoon beats zaf with a Apple IIe22:54
|Rthere is an accelerometer in the nXXX ?22:55
* snowmoon hands |R with a clue stick22:56
|R:]22:57
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* |R doesn't get something with ssh tunnels...22:57
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Tyborhi people, anyone got a "freedom universal keyboard"?22:58
snowmoon|R: what do you need to know22:58
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|Rsnowmoon : ssh -w any:any root@192.168.1.3 ... i get a tun0 device, but then everything acts strangely. if i ifconfig eth0 on 192.168.1.3 to 10.0.0.3 ...22:59
maximCT|R: I'm using ssh tunnel from my office to my home pc and run a VPN across for the N800 ...22:59
|Rsnowmoon: and then on the original 192.168.1.2 set it to 10.0.0.2 ... i can ping 10.0.0.1 10.0.0.2 and 10.0.0.3 ... is there a standard hidden IP with ssh tunnels or what?23:00
|R(10.0.0.1 acts as if it was 10.0.0.3)23:00
akai---where does one put the cover art so canola shows it?23:00
|R(that's without any route)23:01
|Rakai--- : cover.jpg in the album folder?23:01
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akai---so there has to be an album folder? named exactly like the album?23:01
|Rakai--- : i don't think so, it just takes the cover.jpg in the current folder23:02
akai---but if it's named cover.jpg than you still need a folder for every album -_-23:02
|RmaximCT : what commands do you use? :)23:02
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snowmoon|R never done that type of tunneling... mostly use -D23:03
maximCT|R: the key one is ppp...23:03
maximCTpppd that is23:03
|RmaximCT : but with ssh 4.3+ you don't need that anymore as i understand it23:03
|Rsnowmoon : ok :)23:03
maximCT|R: ok .. that's news to me... the way I do it I found on this page: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/maddraves/2007/03/19/ssh_vpn_on_n80023:03
maximCT|R: I'll have to look into what you say then23:04
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snowmoonI guess that would be more proxing, but people use the terms interchangeably at times.23:04
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|RmaximCT : i think that was done before the introduction of the -w flag in SSH 4.3 :)23:04
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|Rssh -w creates a tun0 device automagically...23:04
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maximCToh boy... I'm gonna have to play with that then.. :)23:05
|Rlooking at the release date actually it was already there, but like me, i think nobody noticed this cool feature ;)23:05
|Rat least it's basically working here, but I think i'm missing some details ;P23:06
Jitendoes anyone here feel like you'd like to test an incomplete maemo port of http://mnemosyne-proj.sf.net/? I've been reimplementing the UI in gtk and just finished some optimizations that removed some half second waits from tap to something happening.23:06
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|RmaximCT : have you done VoIP over that tunnel?23:06
maximCT|R: yes...23:06
zafvoip over a tcp tunnel wont be that great23:07
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maximCT|R: with rtcomm ... using ulaw codec I connect to my asterisk box at home.23:07
|RmaximCT : which client?23:07
|Roh!!23:07
maximCTworked flawlessly23:07
|Rdamn! that means... rtcomm isn't buggy?23:07
maximCTit works for me... unfortunately though you can't send any dtmf once the connection is up23:08
|Ron ITT forum they said that rtcomm ignored any device other than the base one23:08
|Rso you couldn't use tun0 etc23:08
maximCTor there's no possibilities to place calls on hold etc.23:08
|Rthat's fine for my use23:08
|Rzaf : that bad?23:08
maximCTwell .. like I said .. I'm using pppd so it goes over the ppp0 device ...23:08
maximCTgonna have to test with ssh -w ... but I ran out of battery and don't have the charger here.. :(23:08
|Ryeah, but same problem ppp0 != wlan0... so tun0 should work :)23:08
|Rhehe23:09
zafwhy would u wanna tunnel it over a vpn?23:09
zafwhy not just let it work over the internet natively?23:09
maximCTmy VoIP works also via bluetooth and egprs...23:09
|Rzaf : so no to expose my sip port to the outside and not to spread my password all over the world :)23:09
|Rno/not23:09
maximCTzaf, 'cause I'm in a corporate environment where I don't have native internet connectivity.23:09
zafevery other provider does it23:09
|Rand every other provider might have a security problem ehhe23:09
zafi dont think the password is plaintext23:09
maximCTwith SIP password is plaintext.23:10
|Rwell rtcomm doesn't support asterisk's md5secret= command :(23:10
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akai---hi _^_23:10
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|Rall my other sip phone / softphone do but not that one, too beta... :|23:10
|Rif i at least had md5 handshake that would satisfy me a bit more, but plaintext exchange is a bit weak23:11
k-s[WORK]akai---: you can put it in music's id3v223:11
playyaonyone tried to install other nokia sdk in linux?23:11
|R(i don't see people doing tcp hijacking in bars hehe ;)23:11
k-s[WORK]akai---: (music image/cover)23:11
|Rbut sniffing, hell yeah, we got an admin password stolen once for an http session hehe ;)23:12
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akai---k-s[WORK] that would be way too bothersome -_- I'd go with making album folders23:12
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k-s[WORK]akai---: :-)23:12
akai---is there a way to extract a list of installed packages out of nokia 770? I don't see any logs there or a feature like that in apt-get -_-23:13
akai---I may be blind though23:13
k-s[WORK]dpkg -l ?23:14
akai---lol23:14
akai---I've forgotten about dpkg -_-23:14
akai---it logs installing packages somewhere too?23:15
k-s[WORK]akai---: apt-get is just the high-level layer on top of dpkg, does resolve depedency, etc23:15
k-s[WORK]dunno23:15
akai---k-s[WORK] I kinda use slackware on my pc -_- I get lost in debian23:16
|Rhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=186023:16
|Rthat was the bug mentionned on ITT23:16
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akai---why does /var/log seem to be empty anyway?23:19
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k-s[WORK]akai---: apt-get is just the high-level layer on top of dpkg, does resolve depedency, etc23:22
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sp3000akai---: probably people don't want to lose space in places they can't really manage in the ui23:26
sp3000you can install syslogd, likely config /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg to log, etc if you like23:26
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eijkHi! I just realised from different screenshots on the web, that some scratchbox installations feature a slightly broken looking desktop (like mine). Some look fine. What could that be? It looks as mine is missing some graphics...23:47
eijkMine looks like this http://gsyc.es/~herraiz/ekiga/04.png23:48
eijkAny ideas how to fix that?23:49
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alteregoUrgh, writting API documentation is kind of a pain in the ass.23:52
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Takheh23:56
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disqalterego: doxygen to the rescue? :P23:57
alteregoNot likely.23:57
Takalterego: http://www.bash.org/?4858123:57
disqi'm kinda trying out phpDocumentor. not bad, found some bugs tho23:57
alteregoIt's API for Ruby23:57
Takrdoc then :-P23:57
alteregoUnfortunately rdoc is crap.23:57
alterego:)23:57
* Tak shrugs23:58
* Tak likes rdoc23:58
alteregoWell, it's okay. Unless you're writing extensions/bindings like I am.23:58
alteregoIt's C parsing is well. Inadequate. Not that it's easy.23:58
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