IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2007-10-19

* Jaffa yawns		00:00
jumpula	1.0.8 has separated the generic debian devkit to debian-sarge and debian-etch	00:01
jumpula	the glibc comes from the toolchain package	00:01
Jaffa	czr: tablet-encode is a) going to be an example of my nicely OO Java-based framework for media conversion (which hopefully kontorri might use in MediaConverter); b) be a front-end to my on-demand transcoding/RSS feed doing VideoCenter-integrating media converter.	00:02
jumpula	older targets expect to have the generic debian devkit	00:02
truls	hm, so i might be able to try to add an older glibc toolchain to the scratchbox...	00:02
jumpula	which is available only in 1.0.7.1 and older	00:02
czr	Jaffa, ah. I see. thanks for the explanation :-)	00:02
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jumpula	truls: that should work	00:02
truls	jumpula: older than 3.2? including 3.2?	00:02
* czr runs quickly as far as possible from java		00:02
jumpula	older than 3.2, not including 3.2	00:02
disq	i'm hacking sid-armel debs to get xsetroot and a required lib (libXmuu)	00:02
kaltsi	m00	00:02
jumpula	3.2 installer uses a combination of debian-sarge and maemo3-debian devkits	00:02
disq	will make a wrapper to synergyc to change the mouse cursor on mouse enter/exit events	00:02
jumpula	which is the equivalent of old, generic debian	00:03
disq	then hopefully somebody will package xsetroot and friends.	00:03
kaltsi	truls: I'd wait to hear from disq if it works for him.. then start again by installing first 3.2 and then chinook beta	00:03
jumpula	does libXmuu have super cow powers? :)	00:03
m-vo	never ask, never tell.	00:04
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disq	i just extracted it from the deb and threw it in in .	00:04
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truls	kaltsi: well, im installing 3.2 first, i just used the chinook-based installer to get scratchbox	00:05
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kaltsi	ah, yep then you're missing the 3.2 toolchains	00:06
Jaffa	czr: my original Perl version's got some rather nasty threading issues (i.e. it'll randomly kill all threads/child processes). Also, MediaConverter could really do with some OO love.	00:06
truls	yep, hoping to fix that now though	00:07
czr	Jaffa, not saying that anything is inherently evil with java and oo. just .. it seems so.. wrong :-)	00:07
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Tak	ruby would seem like a more natural progression than java	00:08
Jaffa	czr: Having one big file for all your business logic and GUI code is just as wrong in Java (which is what MediaConverter's written in). Having the Perl version sorted would be better, IMHO for this though.	00:08
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* czr nods at jaffa		00:08
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Jaffa	But UKMP is the same in Python - which is just as bad.	00:08
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czr	plus python has issues with threads as well.	00:09
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czr	unless they're used correctly.	00:09
* Jaffa 's hoping to put the Perl version out there as a first show tho		00:10
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mazzen	hi! i set maemo 2.2 with http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/Maemo_2.2_Tutorial.html#settingup . but when i set up a rootstrap target for ARM i have only "none" as an opion for cpu transparency method. does anyone have an idea?	00:17
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kaltsi	jumpula: you might be able to answer that?	00:21
mazzen	found it :-)	00:22
mazzen	http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-users/2006-May/000539.html	00:22
jumpula	mazzen: which scratchbox version do you have?	00:22
jumpula	if you have apophis, please install cputransp devkit	00:22
jumpula	which is basicly what the link tells you :)	00:22
kaltsi	no cigar for jumpula :)	00:23
mazzen	:-)	00:23
jumpula	would have been a cigar for me, if i'd been faster :)	00:23
jumpula	took me a while to find this window and then i had to type the answer	00:24
kaltsi	one slow man short of a man with a cigar	00:24
mazzen	and i gave google too much key words :)	00:24
jumpula	kaltsi: x)	00:24
bstock	someone told me the 810 will have FM tuner built-in, that true?	00:25
kaltsi	the N800 has it too	00:25
bstock	oh really? i never knew that	00:25
mazzen	but is scratchbox-devkit-cputransp_1.0.3_i386.deb the right one for scratchbox-core 1.0.7?	00:25
bstock	hmm they don't menton it in the tech specs on nseries.com	00:26
kaltsi	bstock yep but by default there's no application to use it. it's installable from somewhere, lemme see..	00:26
bstock	don't worry about it, i have a 770 so	00:26
bstock	but that's cool	00:26
kaltsi	and you need to plug in the headphones and they'll work as an aerial	00:27
bstock	think i'll upgrade to 810 when its released. is there a date yet, last i heard was just november	00:27
kaltsi	but you can still get the sound out of the speakers even with the headphones plugged in	00:27
bstock	cool	00:28
bstock	yeah it doesn't sound like it'd be worth the upgrade from the 800 to 810, but 770 to 810 should be	00:29
bstock	depending on how badly you would want the hardware keyboard	00:29
jumpula	mazzen: they should be compatible	00:29
mazzen	jumpula: thanks	00:30
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kaltsi	bstock fyi: here's the fm tuner app http://maemo.org/downloads/product/fmradio	00:31
bstock	hmm, does it have a tuner or transmitter?	00:32
kaltsi	just a tuner	00:32
bstock	or transciever	00:32
kaltsi	receiver	00:32
bstock	ah, do you know if the 810 will have transmitter?	00:32
kaltsi	to use it as walkie talkie or wot?	00:32
bstock	no, to transmit like mp3's over fm frequency	00:33
kaltsi	ahh well I haven't heard of anything like that	00:33
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jumpula	like the ipod gadget?	00:33
jumpula	i seriously doubt about it	00:33
kaltsi	me too :)	00:34
bstock	yeah thats what i was thinking, but a friend claims it will. would be nice	00:34
Tak	what about a class 1 laser?	00:34
jumpula	in some countries, it's not allowed to have a "rogue transmitter"	00:34
bstock	http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/18/171246	00:34
jumpula	ie. you can't sell those ipod gadgets in finland	00:34
kaltsi	jumpula: these days you can.. it's legal now	00:34
jumpula	that broadcast the music over fm	00:34
jumpula	it is?	00:34
bstock	hmm	00:34
jumpula	directive of eu? :)	00:35
kaltsi	dunno :)	00:35
jumpula	hmm.. interesting.	00:35
kaltsi	lemme find you a sales item	00:35
jumpula	now i only should have an ipod	00:35
jumpula	... and a radio.	00:35
bstock	linuxdevices.com says it'll have a transmitter, wonder how accurate this is: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3669465936.html	00:36
kaltsi	hmm that's new to me	00:36
kaltsi	jumpula http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=21038	00:37
kaltsi	verkkokauppa sells those	00:37
sp3000	jumpula: since last year or so iirc	00:37
jumpula	oh	00:38
jumpula	as usual, my information is out-of-date, then :)	00:38
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pupnik	http://www.whowouldtheworldelect.com/ << vote for US president :)	00:39
ds3		00:39
Tak	wtf - where's Stephen Colbert?!	00:39
jumpula	and chuck norris!	00:40
_Monkey	chuck norris is a supreme being	00:40
jumpula	:D	00:40
kaltsi	hehe	00:40
pupnik	hahaha	00:40
kaltsi	heh in my Opera all the republican candidates are hidden under the vote results :-)	00:41
Tak	as they should be	00:41
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Tak	if only voting machines worked that way	00:41
truls	yay, got my hello world working	00:41
kaltsi	haha Rudy Giuliani Total votes: 911	00:41
truls	with the downgraded toolchains	00:41
Tak	nice	00:42
truls	as its almost 6am, installing chinook in the same scratchbox will have to wait until tomorrow	00:42
kaltsi	where are you.. in China?	00:42
truls	taiwan right now	00:43
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kaltsi	ok	00:43
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truls	annoying thing, nokia-shops everywhere, but impossible to get n800s in asia	00:44
kaltsi	that sucks	00:44
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dockane	czr: no.. the other way round. i would like to wake up servers with the n800. so i am just looking for a binary which is capable of sending these magick packets	00:49
czr	dockane, ahh	00:49
czr	you could cross-compile one, let me check for the package	00:49
czr	dockane, etherwake (it's in C, so no extra dependencies)	00:50
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czr	you'll need to run it as root or suid it (it uses PF_PACKET)	00:51
dockane	i tried to build wol on the n800 but i failed with "configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH"	00:53
czr	dockane, have you setup the SDK?	00:53
czr	I can try to build it for you, give me a sec	00:53
TechJunkie	\quit	00:53
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Tak	s/\\/\//	00:54
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pupnik	\/\/ \/\/ /= Wrestling!	00:56
Tak	it's \/\/\/\/3 now	00:59
TechJunkie	Anyone have their own jabber 2 (jabberd) server working with the RTcom beta?	00:59
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czr	dockane, http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/etherwake_1.09-1_armel.deb	01:01
czr	dockane, or navigate to the dir with the browser with your n800, and click on the file	01:01
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czr	you'll need to run it from the osso-xterm as root	01:02
czr	(sudo gainroot first)	01:02
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czr	dockane, you still there?	01:09
dockane	czr: yes.. thank you for you help. i hope this package will not add my n800 to your botnet ;)	01:11
czr	me too!	01:11
czr	:-)	01:11
czr	seriously though, you should install the SDK yourself	01:12
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czr	the package is from debian originally, so only thing you need to do is to apt-get source etherwake, then put those files into the SDK, modify debian/control for the Section stuff, and run fakeroot debian/rules binary	01:12
czr	and that will build you a binary package (assuming you do this on the ARMEL side of the SDK)	01:12
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ericz	bah! they're coming out with the 810!?	01:50
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czr	ericz, yes	01:52
ericz	new OS for that too huh? going to be able to upgrade the 700/800?	01:52
czr	800 yes. 700 no. 770 no.	01:52
ericz	my poor ancient 770 :P	01:53
orakle	heh	01:54
orakle	man i had such big dreams for my 770	01:54
orakle	then i figured out i wasn't going to be able to connect it to my university's wifi	01:54
orakle	and then it got chucked in a drawer and hardly ever sees the light of day	01:54
orakle	it's too bad, i got the 2 gig memory card and everything.	01:55
ericz	i just got a bluetooth phone and can't get my 770 to connect through it :-/ stupid verizon crippling their stuff	01:55
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orakle	works with my phone	01:58
orakle	but data costs so much it's not worth it	01:58
orakle	it's like $0.20/kb or something stupid like that	01:59
ericz	yeah, i'd probably have to pay for something to do it right	01:59
TechJunkie	what Verizon BT phone did you get..	01:59
ericz	samsung sch-u540	02:00
ericz	they pair and everything, but then it pretends to connect like doing a data call and the authentication fails or whatever, ive tried a few different username/password combinations i've seen googling	02:01
TechJunkie	yeah... sorry.. VZ locked things down with their new DUN auth server a few months ago, so unless you can find a way to change the auth server name (or pay for teathering)	02:02
ericz	i can't even change the WAP browser settings [server/port] on my phone, no idea where those settings are, used to have an ancient, junky phone that had wap and it was easy to change the server, and i was running my own wap gateway for free wap forever	02:03
ericz	the bill always showing lists of data calls to 999 000 0000 was weird though	02:05
ericz	why's verizon have to be so lame with bluetooth :( like all you can do with it is use a headset i guess	02:05
orakle	yeah, they customize the firmware to screw you	02:05
orakle	most vanilla firmwares for cell phones have all of those options open	02:06
x2	:/	02:06
x2	try your #@vzw.com	02:07
x2	:/	02:07
ericz	with what password though	02:07
x2	phone number	02:07
x2	im happy i dont have verizon cell service	02:07
x2	uscellular	02:07
ericz	i tried tons of stuff i saw on google, nothing worked	02:07
x2	people dont know about it	02:07
x2	razr, unlocked and modded	02:07
x2	10$ easyedge	02:07
x2	unlimited net	02:07
x2	;0	02:08
orakle	wow	02:08
x2	but vzw dun should work	02:08
x2	or last I heard anyway	02:08
ericz	always nervous about those companys i've never heard of, makes me wonder like "dude, do they even have signal, who are those guys"	02:08
x2	lol	02:08
x2	funny part is	02:08
x2	when i go to like newyork	02:08
x2	i can use verizon towers	02:09
x2	and get the full speed	02:09
x2	rofl	02:09
x2	since uscc pays them, or whateve	02:09
x2	share towers	02:09
ericz	i pair them and the 770 says	02:10
ericz	"Selected phone does not support file transfer. It can only be used for dial-up networking."	02:10
x2	lol	02:10
x2	do you select dial up networking?	02:10
ericz	well i add it with phone in control panel	02:10
ericz	now im going to connections and adding new one	02:11
x2	ok	02:11
ericz	is it Packet Data or Data call	02:11
x2	fucking firefox omg	02:11
TechJunkie	well, dialing #777 with your10digitphonenumber@vzw3g.com for username and "vzw" fo password used to work before dun.vzw3g.com was put in place and firmware was updated on the newer VZ phones.	02:11
ericz	it's obviously not WLAN	02:11
x2	packet data	02:11
x2	lol TechJunkie	02:11
x2	they suck that bad/	02:11
x2	i know their razrs used to be bloatwared and locked down	02:12
ericz	so dial-up number: #777, username= 8001234567@vzw3g.com ?	02:12
x2	flash it to alltel and its good	02:12
TechJunkie	unfortunatly... there are ways around it for several phones, just not sure about his. :/	02:12
TechJunkie	yep	02:12
TechJunkie	password = vzw	02:12
x2	welll	02:12
x2	thats not packet data is it	02:12
x2	its dun	02:12
TechJunkie	but don't get your hopes up with a new EVDO model like that.	02:13
* x2 grabs 770		02:13
ericz	do i need to set advanced settings?	02:13
ericz	allow plain text is checked, and use ppp compression is checked	02:13
ericz	auto-retrive dns/ip are set too	02:13
TechJunkie	DUN... sorry I don't have a 770.. I use the "GPRS" setting for connection type, maybe you have that.	02:14
ericz	don't see it	02:15
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ericz	phone details on it shows cdma, dun: yes, file transfer: no, sim access profile: no	02:16
TechJunkie	yeah.. not sure about that one, "data calls" I think are the older service that literally uses the phone as a low speed modem... not sure... I'm using a Moto Q, verizon, n800. Had to enable things to work via "pdanet" as the old method (given above) doesn't work any more.	02:16
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TechJunkie	sounds ok, I just wouldn't get your hopes up... basically you'll probably need a data package and that damn $15/mon teathering fee... but I could be wrong :)	02:17
ericz	yeah, not working as packet data or data call, just getting authentication failed	02:18
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ericz	just gotta depend on random people with open wireless :)	02:19
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pupnik	lmao... iphone vs nokia E70 http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone	02:20
TechJunkie	Yeah.. not sure what to tell you... I know my older LGs and Motorolas could be hacked but I'm not sure about the stuff out there now. Thank god for the global "linksys" network :)	02:20
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* pupnik waits for the giggling to die down		02:21
ericz	entering wpa keys on 770 makes me want to cry :/	02:23
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Sulis	pupnik, i'm still going to get an iPhone...	02:26
Sulis	as soon as it's released here	02:26
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pupnik	:) i thank jobs for NeXTstep, so he has a free 'no hate' pass from me for life :)	02:29
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TechJunkie	NeXTStation Color... still have one :)	02:30
x2	lol ericz	02:31
Jaffa	Woohoo! Perl-based on-demand transcoding and RSS feed into Video Center working :-). Apparently, it's like Orb but open source.	02:32
* Jaffa is watching the most recent episode of Stargate Atlantis from an HD DivX without any prior transcoding.		02:33
disq	nice. though my current server can't even play x264 720p files	02:34
* Jaffa 's server can't either - I'm testing it on my desktop. One of the reasons it defaults to 770-encode's "smallest" preset.		02:35
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* Jaffa uploads it to http://www.bleb.org/software/maemo/mediaserv.pl.txt - will tidy release and announce it properly tomorrow. Now... it's time for bed.		02:36
disq	night.	02:36
Jaffa	g'night	02:37
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czr	night	02:59
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_trent_	so how do i reboot an 800 so that a running app gets killed?	03:41
_trent_	n800 that is	03:41
zerojay	Um... reboot it.	03:43
_trent_	how?	03:44
zerojay	The same way you do normally.	03:44
_trent_	wow.. media player eventually died on its own after about 30 minutes of being hosed	03:45
_trent_	i tried shutting it off and back on but media player was still running	03:45
zerojay	Let me guess, you had it charging?	03:45
_trent_	its plugged in yes..	03:46
_trent_	i've only had it about 2 hours :)	03:46
zerojay	Rebooting while the tablet is plugged in doesn't reboot it but puts it in more of a sleep mode.	03:46
zerojay	Unplug the tablet, then reboot.	03:46
_trent_	ah.. useful info	03:46
_trent_	thanks	03:47
ds3	or pop battery	03:50
ds3	and disc power	03:50
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Liquid_Ic	Does anyone know if there a standalone flash player for the nokia 770 or 8--?	03:59
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Pavlz	hello	04:02
Pavlz	where can i find kismet for it 2006 os nokia 770 ?	04:03
Pavlz	kismet version armel	04:04
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Pavlz	i searched too much but i don't find it	04:05
Pavlz	can anyone help me please ?	04:06
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pupnik	repositories?	04:07
_Monkey	repositories is http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php	04:07
pupnik	search gronmayer.com	04:07
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Pavlz	tnx for the info	04:08
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pupnik	if there are problems lettuce know	04:09
zerojay	boooo	04:10
* zerojay throws tomatoes at pupnik.		04:10
pupnik	I try never to disparagus and i don't sweat the truffles.	04:11
pupnik	I'm outstanding in my field... and i know something good will turnip eventually.	04:11
pupnik	A bunch of things are going grape!	04:11
pupnik	:)	04:11
* zerojay closes the keyboard of the N810 on pupnik's lip.		04:11
pupnik	And soon i'll be top banana.	04:11
pupnik	(at least, that's my peeling)	04:11
disq	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10694	04:12
zerojay	I NEED IT NOW	04:12
pupnik	(ripped from Kip Adotta - Life in the Slaw Lane (with apologies))	04:12
zerojay	I disagree with iball. My N800 almost did get me laid. lol.	04:13
pupnik	hmm a new thread - "internet tablet success stories"	04:14
pupnik	(I didn't realize it had kumquat so far)	04:16
disq	i'm still setting up scratchbox. this is the third try. previous ones failed with no space left on device	04:19
disq	oh. completed. my /scratchbox is 3.4 gigs now.	04:22
Deformati	What could cause my 770 to suddenly be readonly via usb?	04:27
Pavlz	nothing to do i founded only kismet_2007.01.R1-b-1.0_armel.deb	04:28
Pavlz	it does not run on my nokia 770 because is for 2007	04:29
pupnik	this is the kismet i have also	04:29
Pavlz	i need 2006 _armel.deb	04:29
pupnik	sure?	04:30
Pavlz	i update time ago and now i can not use anymore	04:30
Pavlz	first if to the sh i wrote sudo gainroot	04:31
pupnik	i will test this package on 770	04:31
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Pavlz	and to the next step kismet i saw the gui	04:32
Pavlz	now i see only a messagge to the shell	04:32
pupnik	i installed this package with dpkg -i, then i ran "kismet" as root, and it works	04:33
Pavlz	Server option : none	04:33
Deformati	Is there an app for webspidering?	04:33
pupnik	if yours is broken, then do	04:33
Pavlz	Client option : none	04:34
pupnik	it looks like configuration is broken	04:34
pupnik	i suggest to remove package and reinstall	04:34
Pavlz	Starting server ...	04:35
Pavlz	Waiting for server to start before starting U.	04:36
Pavlz	/usr/bin/kismet_server : error while loading y	04:38
Pavlz	[1] + Done (127) $ {BIN} /kismet}	04:40
pupnik	Pavlz: strange. is your / filesystem full?	04:41
Pavlz	this is the messagge i see on the shell	04:41
Pavlz	many applications	04:42
Deformati	Why is the scheme installer missing?	04:42
pupnik	"df" command shows space free	04:42
disq	gah. i think xtightvnc doesn't support the composite extension	04:43
pupnik	iirc this is correct, several not supported	04:43
Pavlz	yes there is a little free space and firt to the row i see to right there is the last messagge	04:44
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Pavlz	i got aircrack-ng 0.5-1 mad	04:45
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Pavlz	aircrack-pwt 1.0.0-1	04:46
Pavlz	batmand 0.2-1	04:46
Pavlz	becomeroot 0.1-2	04:47
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Pavlz	btscanner 2.1-2.2	04:48
Pavlz	ctorrent 1.3.4-dnh2-btfiles-maemo-1	04:49
Pavlz	dropbear-client 0.49-1mh3	04:51
Pavlz	dropbear-server 0.49-1mh3	04:51
Pavlz	dsniff 2.4b1s2-1	04:52
pupnik	i don't think these packages should interfere - but maybe aircrack-pwt breaks kismet somehow	04:52
Pavlz	iphome 0.2-1	04:53
Pavlz	kismet 2007.01.R1b-1.0	04:54
ds3		04:54
Pavlz	lbncurses5 5.4-4	04:55
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Pavlz	libpcap0.8 0.9.5-1	04:57
Pavlz	nano 1.2.4-5	04:57
Pavlz	nast 0.2.0	04:58
Pavlz	ncurses-base 5.4-4	04:59
Pavlz	netcat 1.10-32	04:59
Pavlz	nmap 3.95-1	05:00
Pavlz	oggplay 0.31	05:00
Pavlz	olsrd 0.4.10-1	05:02
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pupnik	i sense frustration	05:02
Pavlz	osso-statusbar-cpu 0.5.7	05:02
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Pavlz	i frustration ?	05:03
Pavlz	osso-xterm 0.13	05:04
Pavlz	i am not frustrated	05:04
doublec	why the big list of packages pasted to the channel?	05:04
Pavlz	privoxy 3.0.6-2	05:05
Pavlz	because you asked me	05:05
Pavlz	which packages i got	05:05
Pavlz	i am telling you	05:06
doublec	i asked you?	05:06
doublec	i think not	05:06
pupnik	i didn't ask that	05:06
pupnik	03:20 < pupnik> i suggest to remove package and reinstall [kismet]	05:07
Pavlz	rsync 2.6.8-2	05:07
pupnik	plonk!	05:07
Pavlz	and what pupnik	05:07
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Pavlz	it is night here in italy	05:08
Pavlz	it is too cold and i am in the middle of a street	05:08
Pavlz	to sniff the connection with the nokia 770	05:09
Pavlz	my hands are iceberg	05:10
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Pavlz	and i am using xchat whit little fonts	05:11
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Pavlz	and is possibile that i have not understood what you asked me pupnik	05:12
doublec	pupnik is saying, remove kismet and reinstall it	05:13
Pavlz	i think to turn back to home it is too much cold	05:13
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Pavlz	i just do it	05:14
Pavlz	whitout any success	05:14
Pavlz	i try again another time	05:15
Pavlz	i removed	05:17
Pavlz	and i installed	05:17
Pavlz	there is not any difference	05:18
Pavlz	as i just said you	05:18
Pavlz	the problem remain	05:19
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doublec	i wasn't telling you to do it, i was telling you what pupnik said	05:19
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Pavlz	ok	05:23
Pavlz	tnx	05:23
Pavlz	my nokia 770	05:23
Pavlz	is locked	05:23
Pavlz	i can't update	05:24
Pavlz	if i write apt-get update	05:24
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Pavlz	apt-get dist-upgrade	05:25
Pavlz	i receive this messagge	05:25
Pavlz	E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - op)	05:27
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erstazi	Pavlz: on your nokia, is the application manager open?	05:27
Pavlz	E: Unable to lock the administration director?	05:29
Pavlz	yes there are	05:29
Pavlz	but it's very	05:30
Pavlz	strange	05:30
erstazi	close the application manager on your nokia	05:30
erstazi	then do apt-get update	05:30
erstazi	cannot have application manager open or else it will lock apt-get	05:31
Pavlz	that i can't to work in multitasking	05:31
Pavlz	too the www ?	05:31
Pavlz	ok	05:34
Pavlz	but it has only updated the browser	05:34
Pavlz	and to update the kernel ?	05:35
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Pavlz	as kernel version i got 2.6.16.27-omap1	05:38
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lopz	bye	07:05
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dolske	Grr... Is there a functional link somewhere for downloading the Chinook VMWare appliance? http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ is broken.	07:33
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pupnik	dolske: perhaps on the vmware appliance site	07:38
dolske	Just bora. :/	07:40
dolske	"Results 1 - 10 of 98 for maemo." stupid site search.	07:41
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inz	mmh, wordpress upgrade almost working...	08:40
inz	sqlite wordpress, that is	08:40
inz	Damned sqlite 2.x doesn't have alter table :/	08:42
konttori	sqlite 3 should have	08:45
konttori	maybe not full, but at least add column	08:45
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inz	yeah, it does	08:46
inz	but sqlite2 is already used on the device ;)	08:46
konttori	hmm... it's only 150 k.	08:47
konttori	so, you might consider adding the current one with your package	08:47
konttori	what are you doing?	08:47
inz	Trying to make wordpress upgrade (2.0.9 -> 2.3) work	08:48
konttori	ahh...	08:48
konttori	perhaps just create new db and move the data from the old one to the new	08:48
konttori	you can connect two databases together in sqlite and move data between them relatively easily	08:49
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konttori	just an idea	08:50
konttori	i'm sure you'll figure out a better one	08:50
inz	I already have a "get table details, get table contents, drop table, recreate table, fill table" -solution	08:51
konttori	sounds great	08:51
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unique311	konttori: any ukmp release news?	08:51
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konttori	umm... as in for what?	08:52
unique311	read something on ITT about coverflow?	08:52
konttori	umm.. I could put the n810 compatible version out	08:52
konttori	ahh.. it's not my project	08:52
konttori	I was just suggesting how one might go about making coverflow	08:52
unique311	ok	08:52
konttori	I don't have the time exactly right now to put to that.	08:52
konttori	it would take some head banging against the wall to get it optimized enough.	08:53
unique311	k	08:53
konttori	otoh: if my ideas there would work out, then making that should take around two days to add to ukmp.	08:54
konttori	mostly because to get it looking just right takes polish time	08:55
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unique311	new tablet besides looking guud, only hardware improvements. gps, keyboard, and wimax.	08:56
White_Flame	so what does it take to run Maemo on other hardware? Specifically the Jornada 720 has a linux kernel now. Only 32MB RAM, though.	09:00
bmidgley	n810 has an fm transmitter?	09:00
pupnik	who says that	09:01
White_Flame	http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3669465936.html	09:01
bmidgley	and a few others that seem to have copied/pasted	09:02
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konttori	sounds interesting. I don't know if that fm stuff is corect. I'm so in the software side of things.	09:10
konttori	if it is true, then it would be a really great way to connect n800 to home stereo at home.	09:11
konttori	anyway, gotta go to work now. see you guys	09:11
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czr	mornink	09:23
inz	mourning	09:24
czr	aww, wordpress is so saddening experience? :-)	09:24
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czr	interesting. no email. I was expecting some feedback..	09:27
GeneralAntilles	http://www.ustream.tv/channel/thoughtfixs-live-show/	09:27
GeneralAntilles	If anybody wants a live N810 demo.	09:27
* czr wants to feel the keyboard		09:28
pupnik	:)	09:28
inz	czr, I just hate it when I get empty pages and I've no idea why	09:28
inz	czr, error messages are sooooo nice	09:28
truls	hm, that was odd. i incidentally was watching one of his n800-takeapart videos when i started to see the ustream-thing without knowing it was the same guy	09:28
czr	inz, you aren't using sharepoint by any chance, are you? ;-)	09:29
truls	s/incidentally/coincidentally/	09:29
infobot	truls meant: hm, that was odd. i coincidentally was watching one of his n800-takeapart videos when i started to see the ustream-thing without knowing it was the same guy	09:29
pupnik	is it just my ustreamtv that is laggy or the 810, GeneralAntilles ?	09:29
inz	czr, nope	09:29
GeneralAntilles	UstreamTV	09:29
GeneralAntilles	3 N810 users in the room	09:29
GeneralAntilles	they're confirming that it's much smoother in person.	09:29
czr	inz, well, it's like whenever Application manager fails to install a package, you kind of get the same error message :-). so yes, I know the feeling :-)	09:30
czr	GeneralAntilles, they all work for nokia?	09:30
czr	and if not, how can you be truly sure!?	09:30
* czr still wants to feel the keyboard		09:30
inz	czr, application manager _does_ have a log	09:31
czr	inz, where?	09:31
sxpert	o_O http://www.cbld.com/	09:31
GeneralAntilles	czr: no.	09:31
inz	czr, somewhere in the menu	09:31
czr	I know it does. but it's always referred to as "Log". nothing else	09:31
pupnik	man, that's a lot snappier than my 770	09:31
czr	oh	09:31
White_Flame	does the UStream link work for anybody? Neither the video nor the cat are working for me	09:31
inz	czr, menu: tools/log...	09:31
White_Flame	cat = chat	09:31
czr	inz, indeed	09:32
GeneralAntilles	Thoughtfix of tabletblog.com, Jonathan of maemo-apps.org, and Ragnar of . . . Nokia.	09:32
* czr should be flogged with salmons		09:32
czr	never occurred to me that someone would stick the log into the menu :-)	09:32
GeneralAntilles	It's the UnstreamTV, just watch the motion on the non-N810 stuff.	09:32
pupnik	ah 52-54 viewers - ustream definitely the cause of	09:32
pupnik	yep	09:32
GeneralAntilles	Also, don't be a goddamn cynic, czr. :P	09:32
White_Flame	GeneralAntilles: but I'm too busy watching the motion of the "Connecting..." loop ;)	09:33
czr	I don't have a nice answer to that, GeneralAntilles :-)	09:33
pupnik	thoughtfix should be live on #maemo :) to answer all our pesky questions too :D	09:34
pupnik	oh i see there's a chat there too	09:34
pupnik	good job @ thoughtfix tho - nice sharp camera view	09:36
GeneralAntilles	He's good at what he does.	09:36
GeneralAntilles	Good news is that pretty much all of this applies to the N800, too. (with OS2008).	09:38
pupnik	bp4l vs bp5l i think - both nominally 1500mah?	09:39
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	09:40
GeneralAntilles	I think it's just the shape/size.	09:40
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pupnik	note that this is early release	09:44
pupnik	dang this is fun - thanks for the heads up GeneralAntilles	09:44
GeneralAntilles	Sure thing!	09:45
GeneralAntilles	Did you register?	09:45
pupnik	nah too much work - and there's way too many questions already	09:45
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	09:46
GeneralAntilles	Need a moderator.	09:46
White_Flame	so the ustream link is actually working for some?	09:46
GeneralAntilles	Works fine for me.	09:46
White_Flame	hmm	09:46
pupnik	i like this clean 'flat' looking icon style	09:47
GeneralAntilles	Orange selection highlights are terrifying. >_>	09:47
czr	maybe you should buy some color filter plastic so that it would filter out the orange? ;-)	09:48
GeneralAntilles	Or just get a 3rd party theme! :P	09:48
unique311	n810, to wimax or not to wimax...	09:48
* czr still is waiting for the 1st party		09:48
czr	unique311, no wimax afair	09:48
GeneralAntilles	Wimax is a waste of money.	09:48
czr	afaik even.	09:49
White_Flame	I wonder if we'll ever see internet access as a public utility	09:49
unique311	next year	09:49
White_Flame	wimax != public utility	09:50
unique311	thinking alot will be happening next year. 32GB SDs	09:50
unique311	can wait for those	09:50
GeneralAntilles	Too bad about the MiniSD garbage.	09:50
sxpert	White_Flame, build it yourserlf with a wifi swarm	09:50
pupnik	by next year we might even see a decent snes emu :P	09:51
czr	heh pupnik	09:51
unique311	on the tablet pupnik	09:51
White_Flame	at least the N810's keyboard will double as game buttons :)	09:51
pupnik	i hope you can press dpad and a key at the same freakin time	09:51
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unique311	GeneralAntilles: whats the minisd garbage?	09:52
GeneralAntilles	Not having fullsize SD cards slots on the N810	09:52
unique311	slots....or slot	09:53
unique311	only one slot i read.	09:53
unique311	built in 2GB	09:53
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, only one MiniSD slot	09:53
GeneralAntilles	Which is a joke.	09:53
unique311	well the size on Mini's will grow.	09:54
pupnik	i kind of like it - means there's a big space to dump data that the packager is sure will be there	09:54
sxpert	well, imagine how sqweezed it must be inside...	09:54
GeneralAntilles	I'd have taken some extra thickness for more stareg.	09:54
GeneralAntilles	storage*	09:55
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White_Flame	"Up to 2GB internal memory" What's with the "Up to"?	09:55
pupnik	"up to" is usually marketing newspeak for "less than or equal to"	09:55
White_Flame	right, but if it's not a card slot, then either there will be different models with different amounts of RAM, or they haven't finalized specs I guess	09:55
White_Flame	s/RAM/storage/	09:56
infobot	White_Flame meant: right, but if it's not a card slot, then either there will be different models with different amounts of storage, or they haven't finalized specs I guess	09:56
White_Flame	hey, that's a neat bot	09:56
unique311	miniSD's = 8GB so far....	09:56
White_Flame	but my existing SD cards are not mini	09:57
unique311	nokia is thinking about the SD companies..	09:57
unique311	making sure they make money.	09:57
unique311	fair enough	09:57
GeneralAntilles	Ha	09:57
pupnik	whoah what's that strange tablet in the background?	09:58
keesj	http://europe.nokia.com/A4579470 nice to see appls labeled as community apps in between	09:58
GeneralAntilles	I'll be laughing at the poor schmucks limited to 8GB on the N810 while I have 32GB on my N800. :P	09:58
GeneralAntilles	pupnik, black-painted N800	09:58
truls	i'm guessing theres still a hardware limit on how big SDs you can read on the N800, no matter how big they make them	10:00
pupnik	agree with thoughtfix on gps being more useful to more ppl	10:00
unique311	was thinking of airbrushing my N800's cover..figure i didn't get rid of it yet, will probably never.	10:00
keesj	gps is great for on the road	10:00
unique311	would be cool if the gps software is available for the N800	10:01
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GeneralAntilles	truls, should be able to use 32GB SDHC cards just fine.	10:01
truls	nice	10:02
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truls	my impression so far was 2GB was supported, 4GB might work if you're lucky	10:02
GeneralAntilles	The last limit was a software limit due to not having SDHC support in firmware	10:02
GeneralAntilles	but that has been changed	10:02
unique311	new firmware fixed the issues	10:02
GeneralAntilles	so 16GB cards work fine right now	10:02
truls	brilliant!	10:02
GeneralAntilles	and 32GB should be ok in the future	10:03
truls	guess i should get a cheap big card while i'm here in taiwan then	10:03
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White_Flame	how do dev tools run on the n800?	10:03
pupnik	cool... multi-touch on the keyboard apparently	10:04
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truls	is that both for internal and external SDs?	10:04
GeneralAntilles	The internal and external SD slots are identical in what they'll read/write.	10:05
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, pupnik, one would hope. :P	10:05
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pupnik	it wasn't given - it could be press shift - then press letter for e.g.	10:05
truls	GeneralAntilles: great	10:06
pupnik	hahaha	10:07
White_Flame	I see scheme, tcl/tk, python, etc in the maemo list, but no gcc package?	10:07
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czr	White_Flame, gcc is part of sbox	10:08
pupnik	if you need gcc, you should be able to figure out how to put it on there :P	10:08
czr	although I might have misunderstood your question	10:08
White_Flame	well, I don't have a n800 yet, just checking out what's available for it	10:09
White_Flame	I'm presuming you can take basic source apps and do "./configure && make" right on the device?	10:10
dpb_	no, you can't	10:10
dpb_	development happens inside scratchbox, which you install on a x86 pc	10:10
White_Flame	erm, wait	10:11
White_Flame	this thing should be plenty powerful to do self-hosted development	10:11
White_Flame	heck, the Jornada 720 does it fine with 200MHz and 32MB RAM	10:11
dpb_	lol.. your definition of "powerful" and "fine" must be way different than other peoples.	10:12
czr	hmm. there was some discussion about this on the devel list some time ago	10:12
czr	and I see the point. when hacking on software while on the road	10:12
White_Flame	dpb_: the n800 is more powerful than desktops of not that long ago	10:13
GeneralAntilles	I'm wondering how magadan stumbled his way in there. >_>	10:13
dpb_	software has grown in that time too	10:13
White_Flame	but not to that scale	10:14
White_Flame	especially when you're talking about basic bootstrapping apps	10:14
White_Flame	well, seeing as it is just linux, you can cross-compile for ARM and install, right? So I could cross-compile gcc and just slap over the binaries?	10:15
pupnik	i haven't heard of people using gcc on the device, but the packages are all there dpb_	10:15
czr	hmm. I wonder whether building binutils & gcc would require much effort in ARMEL SDK target	10:16
White_Flame	just to clarify, it's not necessarily for coding on-the-go, but just to make sure I can build & install anything that comes in linux source	10:16
czr	White_Flame, that's handled by the SDK	10:16
czr	White_Flame, so yes, you can, and you don't have to build your own cross-toolchain either	10:16
pupnik	there is a crosscompilation environment White_Flame - people develop for the tablets on their PCs	10:16
pupnik	but if you like ruby/python or even tcl/tk that's also an option	10:17
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czr	hmm. is there some page about using python with bora somewhere?	10:17
czr	esp on the device.	10:17
pupnik	btw is orb server easy to set up on linux PC?	10:18
GeneralAntilles	It's Windows only.	10:18
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pupnik	hehehe	10:19
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GeneralAntilles	There aren't any decent transcoding on-demand solutions for non-Windows machines.	10:20
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sxpert	GeneralAntilles, hmm ?	10:21
GeneralAntilles	There aren't any on-demand on-the-fly transcoding media servers available for Linux or OS X	10:21
pupnik	knots server + vlc 0.9 is starting to get there for me	10:21
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pupnik	um funny, i run one every day GeneralAntilles :)	10:22
sxpert	GeneralAntilles, you're full of FUD	10:22
pupnik	just has trouble with some of my vids	10:22
GeneralAntilles	OK, for Linux, then.	10:23
GeneralAntilles	Point me to something for OS X	10:23
GeneralAntilles	It would be much appreciated. :)	10:23
pupnik	http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-macosx.html	10:23
GeneralAntilles	That's not on-demand.	10:24
pupnik	with knots server it is	10:24
pupnik	but you'll need very latest vlc	10:24
GeneralAntilles	Can I get a link? :)	10:24
GeneralAntilles	I can't find it on google.	10:24
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pupnik	http://nightlies.videolan.org/	10:26
GeneralAntilles	I already have the latest VLC.	10:26
GeneralAntilles	Is knots something that's bundled with VLC?	10:26
pupnik	you have 0.9?	10:26
GeneralAntilles	Yessir.	10:27
pupnik	then you need knots server and client	10:27
GeneralAntilles	Which is what I need a link for.	10:27
GeneralAntilles	As I can't find any mention of it on google.	10:27
pupnik	link is down - it's in development	10:27
GeneralAntilles	So, this isn't actually something I can download and use right now? <_<	10:28
pupnik	i think jaffa just got something like that working last night too	10:28
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GeneralAntilles	expert, since I'm full of FUD, do you have any recommendations that I could use. :)	10:30
GeneralAntilles	*sxpert	10:30
pupnik	mythtv does it too afaik, but i really dislike the setup of that	10:31
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GeneralAntilles	Guess not.	10:36
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GeneralAntilles	wb	10:36
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GeneralAntilles	Do you have any recommendations for what I could use, sxpert?	10:37
sxpert	first, what are your requirements ?	10:37
GeneralAntilles	Well, I want to to be able to access my video collection on my primary machine from my N800, then have videos transcoded to MPEG4 @ 400x240 1200Kbps on the fly.	10:38
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sxpert	vlc should be able to do that	10:38
sxpert	you'll need to build some VOD system I guess	10:39
GeneralAntilles	Right, which is exactly what I said	10:39
GeneralAntilles	and exactly what you called me full of "FUD" for.	10:39
GeneralAntilles	So, how am I full of FUD? >_>	10:39
sxpert	thanks for identifying a missing opensource / free software project. now get your hands dirty and build it :-)	10:40
GeneralAntilles	No time.	10:40
GeneralAntilles	I'll probably just roll something with PHP for my own use, though.	10:40
GeneralAntilles	I can call VLC from PHP for individual files.	10:41
GeneralAntilles	Making it exit cleanly and detecting early client-quits might be a little beyond me, though.	10:41
pupnik	01:18 < Jaffa> Woohoo! Perl-based on-demand transcoding and RSS feed into Video Center working :-). Apparently, it's like Orb but open source	10:41
pupnik	01:22 * Jaffa uploads it to http://www.bleb.org/software/maemo/mediaserv.pl.txt - will tidy release and announce it properly tomorrow. Now... it's time for bed.	10:42
sxpert	pupnik, heh	10:42
GeneralAntilles	Ha, JAFFA!	10:42
GeneralAntilles	Well, there you go.	10:42
sxpert	there you go	10:42
pupnik	and i could upload you a ruby-based solution right now but i don't want to step on sol's toes as he wrote it	10:42
sxpert	the thing exists. fresh from last night :-)	10:43
GeneralAntilles	I'd have to install ruby	10:43
GeneralAntilles	Now that's a pain. :P	10:43
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GeneralAntilles	I can believe somebody hasn't already rolled something into VLC, though.	10:44
pupnik	that is kind of surprising	10:45
sxpert	there's something called "freeplayer" but that's aimed at my internet stb	10:45
sxpert	perhaps it could be hacked into submission	10:45
GeneralAntilles	btw, thanks, pupnik. :)	10:45
GeneralAntilles	Now I just need to get apache set up on here.	10:46
pupnik	hahaha	10:46
Jaffa	Morning, all	10:47
GeneralAntilles	The mac mini that was my local server is running Leopard atm	10:47
GeneralAntilles	it doesn't have the horsepower for this, anyway.	10:47
pupnik	my vlc transcoding was running ok on a p3 950 mhz	10:48
pupnik	lmao @ 'package management'	10:48
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pupnik	morning Jaffa - excited to see what your're doing with transcoding :)	10:50
Jaffa	yeah - don't want to have my own client (like knots - which is still very cool), but integrate into VideoCenter, the browser and the built-in media player	10:50
Jaffa	(or mplayer through VideoCenter)	10:51
pupnik	that's great! ppl will love you	10:52
* Jaffa 's on-demand one works faster than real-time on a VIA Epia 1GHz C3 processor, equivalent to about an 800MHz or slower P3.		10:52
Jaffa	The code is so ugly and full of debug output at the moment, but it seems much more stable than my initial prototype :)	10:53
pupnik	what transcodes on the server?	10:53
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mik_	hi there	10:54
_Monkey	privet, mik_	10:54
mik_	can anyone show me how to send a pg-up in dbclient or ssh?	10:55
pupnik	i dunnos	10:55
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pupnik	ah yes i do mik_	10:58
pupnik	mik_: hit x terminal menu, hit view, then select toolbar	10:58
pupnik	then you can hit pgup/pgdown	10:58
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truls	ack, the development environment installation is so hit or miss with chinook using apt instead of a big rootstrap-download	11:03
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pupnik	bah tell em there's no overclocking	11:04
pupnik	it's a power management issue - at various runlevels you get 400mhz ARM and lower speed DSP, or higher speed DSP and 333mhz arm	11:05
Jaffa	pupnik: MPEG 2 Transport Streams from UK DVB-T.	11:07
pupnik	oh ok - live tv i get it	11:08
x2	what bandwidth would I need for a decent full res stream?	11:08
x2	i may use encoder and try that if its not a lot of bandwidth	11:08
mik_	pupnik: thx	11:08
pupnik	i am running 440 atm	11:08
mik_	i'll try	11:08
x2	440?	11:08
x2	kbs?	11:09
pupnik	kb/s	11:09
x2	er	11:09
x2	lol	11:09
x2	wait	11:09
x2	hrm	11:09
x2	i could do about 350	11:09
x2	wouls that look ok?	11:09
pupnik	oh atm it's at 500 whatever - looks great	11:10
x2	sweet	11:10
pupnik	wmv2 codec ffmpeg	11:10
x2	im waiting on damn 64 bit drivers for my tuner card	11:10
x2	then ill get to work on that	11:10
x2	in a few days ill go to mmc card filesystem	11:10
x2	see if its any faster	11:10
x2	should I do 06, or hacker 07?	11:10
x2	07 has a few bugs	11:10
x2	meh	11:10
GeneralAntilles	Hacker is very much worth it.	11:11
x2	looks good though	11:11
x2	yea	11:11
GeneralAntilles	So much faster than 06	11:11
x2	yea	11:11
Jaffa	pupnik: but I've also transcoded downloaded DivX and ripped DVDs last night.	11:16
pupnik	i prefer crashing less than once a day, but that's just me	11:16
x2	lmfao	11:16
Jaffa	Meh, used to that from IT OS 2005 ;-)	11:16
pupnik	ah nice Jaffa. What does the transcoding on the server side?	11:17
czr	jaffa does :-)	11:17
pupnik	Or are you transcoding non-real-time?	11:17
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GeneralAntilles	Looks like it's using the 770-encode script	11:33
GeneralAntilles	which is mencoder, pupnik.	11:33
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Jaffa	pupnik: GeneralAntilles is right. Using my 770-encode	11:39
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truls	hm, the default installed development environment is kinda... empty, no settings for the device or anything. is there a meta-package other than maemo-explicit to give you everything that's installed on a real n800?	11:48
czr	truls, the SDK is empty	11:49
czr	kind of empty	11:50
czr	and no, no meta-packages	11:50
czr	it's not a full device emulator, it's just an SDK to build your own software (more or less)	11:50
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truls	ah, ok, i kinda thought it used the same package repos as the full device	11:51
truls	and so gave you the same full os	11:51
czr	well, yes and no. but not all software that is on the device is in a "repo"	11:51
truls	ok	11:51
truls	so not everything is upgradable?	11:52
truls	so to speak?	11:52
czr	most of it comes directly with the rootfs when you flash the device	11:52
czr	it is. but you reflash the device with a new release of ITOS	11:52
truls	ok	11:52
truls	ah	11:52
czr	not via Application manager/repos	11:52
truls	so what kinda stuff is in the rootfs?	11:52
czr	everything that you don't find in the SDK ;-)	11:52
truls	apps too?	11:52
truls	heh, ok	11:53
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truls	czr: thanks for clearing that up	11:55
czr	np	11:55
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truls	annoying scratchbox, keeps complaining i don't close my targets, so i cant change to another one	11:56
czr	if you're using armel, then I at least have to use sb-conf killall, since qemu hangs	11:57
czr	but you should check that you don't have other terminals open which are using the same target at the same time.	11:57
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truls	i keep doing the killall and i've closed all terminals	12:01
truls	doesnt help	12:01
truls	thanks	12:02
truls	finding the hung qemu helped	12:02
czr	killall ftw	12:04
czr	killall -9 normally though. qemu has mental issues.	12:05
truls	yeah, realized that	12:08
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guardian	are chinook repos supposed to be updated ?	12:38
timeless	ping	12:38
timeless	anyone here in .fi?	12:38
guardian	since i installed it, apt-get dist-upgrade never updated anything	12:38
truls	i guess you do a apt-get update first	12:39
guardian	did it	12:39
timeless	no one here is in .fi? :(	12:39
GeneralAntilles	Not I.	12:40
Dasajev	\o	12:40
TPC	I saw this in a slashdot comment:	12:42
TPC	The N800 is underclocked because of battery life. The software running on the N810 will be available for the N800 in mid-November. Improvements in it allow the N800 to be clocked back to 400 MHz, which will supposedly happen with the update.	12:42
TPC	is it true?	12:42
timeless	yes	12:43
TPC	ok	12:43
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, yet another reason the N810 is a waste of money.	12:43
flip^	ooh, really?	12:43
flip^	they're going to magically clock the n800 up?	12:43
timeless	there's actually a lot of magic involved	12:44
suihkulokki	pure, black magic	12:44
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timeless	it dynamically changes the clock speed based on load	12:44
timeless	or something	12:44
_Monkey	i think something is wacky here	12:44
flip^	btw, is there any way at all to at least view a Word file with most formatting in tact on a n800?	12:44
timeless	_monkey forget something	12:44
_Monkey	timeless: I forgot something	12:44
GeneralAntilles	There's a little leprechaun in the next firmware update.	12:44
timeless	_monkey something is <reply>	12:44
_Monkey	OK, timeless.	12:44
* flip^ grins at GeneralAntilles		12:44
suihkulokki	timeless: why are asking for people in .fi on irc, when you are sitting in the people in .fi =)	12:45
timeless	because it's not work relaed	12:47
timeless	btw, my t key is mostly busted	12:47
* timeless looks for tim@samoff.com		12:48
GeneralAntilles	Time for a new keyboard? :P	12:48
GeneralAntilles	IBM Model M FTW	12:48
timeless	nah, time to ask IT for a new laptop :)	12:49
timeless	and i hate ibm keyboards, so i just want a new dell :)	12:49
GeneralAntilles	Or fix it yerself.	12:49
pupnik	TPC: according to docs posted yesterday 400mhz was possible long ago, given a lower DSP clock to save power.	12:50
pupnik	*posted here	12:50
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timeless	yeah, basically you trade cpu speed for dsp speed	12:57
GeneralAntilles	Since I'm pretty much never using the DSP, sounds like a fair tradeoff. ;)	12:57
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pupnik	anyway it's curious that thoughtfix saw same bogomips figure - maybe it boots up at 333mhz	13:02
doublec	what US stores will be selling the N810? I'm in the states in December and might pick one up if I can.	13:04
doublec	Pretty much any big computer store?	13:04
GeneralAntilles	Not really	13:06
GeneralAntilles	Probably only CompUSA	13:06
GeneralAntilles	Could be more	13:06
GeneralAntilles	Since the N810 is supposed to be mainstream	13:06
GeneralAntilles	doublec, better off having buy.com ship you an N800	13:06
GeneralAntilles	MUCH cheaper.	13:06
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GeneralAntilles	Basically the same specs	13:07
GeneralAntilles	and unless you really need a keyboard.	13:07
pupnik	that's gambling with customs	13:07
GeneralAntilles	Is it really?	13:08
ptman	I think the keyboard will be very useful for chatting	13:08
* GeneralAntilles is not an overseas traveler.		13:08
ptman	I'm frustrated every time I have to use the on-screen keyboard on my N800	13:08
GeneralAntilles	Actually, I should clarify, have buy.com ship an N800 to somebody you know in the states.	13:08
GeneralAntilles	and pick it up from them.	13:08
GeneralAntilles	Really, ptman?	13:08
Veggen	I think I might like the keyboard for writing text, too. Like emails, etc.	13:08
GeneralAntilles	On-screen board is great.	13:08
GeneralAntilles	Just gotta use your fingertips.	13:09
Veggen	And for terminal use.	13:09
ptman	no tactile feedback, I typo every 20 chars or so	13:09
pupnik	and non-hildon apps :)	13:09
ptman	and I use the terminal a lot	13:09
GeneralAntilles	There's always bluetooth keyboards.	13:09
ptman	basically the N800 is the first really attractive maemo device for me	13:10
ptman	and still I got the two other ones too	13:10
GeneralAntilles	I could get 2 N800s for the price of an N810	13:10
ptman	GeneralAntilles: which are about as big as the device itself	13:10
doublec	I have an N800. I'm keen to try out the N810 too.	13:10
GeneralAntilles	and way more functional than a thumbboard. :P	13:10
doublec	I'll give the one I don't prefer as a gift :)	13:10
ptman	=)	13:11
ptman	I'll keep the N800 as a skype phone	13:11
ptman	shouldn't OS2008 support bluetooth headsets?	13:11
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, my two 770s are couch/bed-puters.	13:11
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, thoughtfix was using a BT headset on his tonight.	13:11
ptman	that's a really big improvement	13:12
GeneralAntilles	and you don't even have to buy an N810 to get it! :D	13:13
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ptman	yeah, Nokia really learned from the 770	13:14
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* GeneralAntilles wants to poke people that use "N770" in the eye with a stick.		13:14
ptman	that's not so bad, is it?	13:14
GeneralAntilles	I'm anal. ;)	13:14
GeneralAntilles	I don't remember how I heard about the 770 way back in 2005, but I'm really glad I did.	13:14
ptman	isn't reading slashdot enough =P	13:15
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, that was probably it.	13:15
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lardman	morning all	13:28
GeneralAntilles	Hey	13:29
czr	mornin lardman	13:31
lardman	hi chaps	13:32
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Big_B	Hi lardman !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	13:33
lardman	hi Big_B	13:34
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GeneralAntilles	Anybody has a good recommendation for a introduction to bash for absolute novices?	13:40
GeneralAntilles	I keep running across people that want to learn	13:41
GeneralAntilles	but haven't found a really good guide to link them to.	13:41
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Sebastius	wow, more people here than i expected :)	13:42
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Sebastius	hello!	13:42
ptman	GeneralAntilles: using or programming?	13:42
GeneralAntilles	Using	13:42
GeneralAntilles	Something for an absolute shell noob to learn with.	13:42
\|tbb\|	anyone succesfully get connected to a win 2003 server trough vpn over the n800?	13:43
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TPC	the best way to learn bash is simply to try it	13:45
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Sebastius	Does anyone now a small script or program to download the latest PDF newspapers to my memorycard every morning?	13:45
Sebastius	(on a 770	13:45
Sebastius	or perhaps some tips to make one myself	13:46
TPC	Sebastius, it would be site dependent, but pretty easy to make yourself	13:46
GeneralAntilles	Maybe, TPC, but it's not easy to start when all you get is "command not found"	13:46
cambba	does anyone have experience with evas or edje?	13:46
TPC	GeneralAntilles, instruct the user to do a ls /bin	13:46
TPC	he will have plenty of commands to play around with	13:46
TPC	just make sure he isn't root :P	13:47
GeneralAntilles	Pft	13:47
GeneralAntilles	I'd rather give them a guide.	13:47
Sebastius	TPC, yeah i know, every site uses a different url. Most are simply based on the date, one has the weekday (ie Monday) in it.	13:47
czr	'advanced bash scripting guide' is pretty decent	13:47
czr	GeneralAntilles, google for that. it has plenty of examples	13:47
Sebastius	any direction you can point me in?	13:47
TPC	Sebastius, for myself I have a cron job running every morning	13:47
TPC	that rips the news from a radio stream	13:48
TPC	then scp:s it to my N800	13:48
Sebastius	cool!	13:48
Sebastius	you use the PC in between?	13:48
TPC	yeah, the cron job that rips the stream is running on my desktop	13:48
TPC	then it encodes to vorbis, and scp:s to the N800	13:48
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Sebastius	allright, thing is, most of the time I won't bother starting up my desktop	13:48
Sebastius	is there a way to do this entirely on the 770?	13:49
TPC	I have mine running at all times	13:49
TPC	I don't think there is a cron package for maemo	13:49
Sebastius	doesn't need to be cron'd, i'd gladly start the app manually	13:49
TPC	ah	13:49
TPC	well in that case a simple bash script will do it	13:50
Sebastius	i just don't want to navigate all over the world	13:50
lardman	still none of the lucky few with an n810 have provided dmesg output	13:50
lardman	grrr!	13:50
TPC	Sebastius, link me to the newspaper in question and I'll whip together something simple	13:50
Sebastius	TPC: PM	13:51
Sebastius	oh and thanks!	13:51
TPC	I haven't recived any PM	13:52
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, lardman, should been on this morning with thoughtfix. ;)	13:52
\|tbb\|	will the new os defintly unlock the n800 processor freq. limit	13:53
GeneralAntilles	99% yes	13:54
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Sebastius	TPC, that's weird	13:54
lardman	GeneralAntilles: he published that info?	13:54
Sebastius	anyway, the url is this: http://www.metropoint.com/ftp/20071019_MetroHolland.pdf	13:54
doublec	is your nick registered?	13:54
GeneralAntilles	He was doing a live demo of the device	13:55
doublec	only registered nicks can send/receive PM's can't they?	13:55
GeneralAntilles	you coulda asked for it, I'm sure	13:55
\|tbb\|	then that would harm the battery life?	13:55
GeneralAntilles	actually, try tabletblog.com and drop an e-mail.	13:55
GeneralAntilles	Much better energy-conserving procedures under OS2008, so, no \|tbb\|.	13:55
lardman	good idea	13:56
GeneralAntilles	or the guy on maemo-apps.org has one, too.	13:56
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Sebastius	allright, registered	13:58
derf	Good morning lardman. How's the Vorbis dsp task coming along?	13:59
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lardman	hi derf	13:59
lardman	I've been trying to debug my first attempt	14:00
derf	Oooh, sweet.	14:00
lardman	in which I chopped up the processing so the ARM does the ogg stream side, then passes packets to the DSP to process in one go	14:00
lardman	but it's a bit more complex than that, as for some functions - header reading for setup, the DSP needs more than one packet	14:01
* GeneralAntilles gives lardamn an "atta-boy".		14:01
Big_B	Lardma : how to create and compile maemomm (C++) project on Eclipse IDE ????	14:01
Big_B	lardman	14:01
lardman	anyway, it's a pita to debug on the DSP - I'm using dbg() which simply sends some text over to the ARM to display in dmesg output. But my dsptask is segfaulting the dsp kernel which kills the buffer	14:02
lardman	Big_B: no idea, sorry	14:02
Big_B	please give me a good tutorial link	14:02
lardman	So I was planning to compile it all on the ARM with some glue/emulation code to handle the dspgateway bit, then see what's causing the segfault, etc.	14:02
derf	Yeah... I once spent 8 hours debugging 20 lines of C++ on VxWorks because of similar problems.	14:02
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derf	Embedded programming is "fun"!	14:03
lardman	But.... ssvb/Serge just sent me some code for an mp3 task, and it creates a thread and uses semaphores to get the data - this sounds far nicer (I'm not sure my chopping up of Tremor will work)	14:03
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lardman	so I've started another attempt to produce a threaded tremor for the DSP. Before that I need to work out why the mp3 task doesn't run though. So that's about where I'm at :)	14:04
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lardman	possibly a better description here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/ plus links to the code (though not the chopped up code as if I can move away from this Neuros code I'd prefer that)	14:05
lardman	if I need to go the chopped up route, then I have permission to release it, but I do worry a bit about the mix of licenses and contributors so would prefer a clean(ish) room job	14:06
TPC	Sebastius, ah	14:06
TPC	Sebastius, well, that URL format makes it very easy	14:06
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TPC	assuming you have xterm and wget installed	14:06
TPC	just run this: wget http://www.metropoint.com/ftp/`date +%Y%m%d`_MetroHolland.pdf	14:07
Sebastius	cool :d	14:08
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TPC	make it an alias by putting this in .profile in the home dir	14:08
TPC	alias getnews='wget http://www.metropoint.com/ftp/`date +%Y%m%d`_MetroHolland.pdf'	14:08
Sebastius	and where does it download the file?	14:08
TPC	and you can just run getnews to get it (after restarting the xterm)	14:09
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TPC	it will download it to the current dir	14:09
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lardman	derf: there may be issues with theora on the n800 - I can't work out how to do framebuffer access yet...	14:10
lardman	derf: on the 770 framebuffer access works :)	14:10
derf	Well, I mean, if Nokia isn't using the dsp for color conversion and scaling, maybe we shouldn't be using the framebuffer on the N800.	14:13
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Sebastius	TPC, i'm missing something, how do i edit the .profile file?	14:13
lardman	yes, I understand that they get better throughput decoding on the ARM than the DSP, but that's not to say one couldn't do just colourspace conversion on the DSP (arbitrary scaling is already supported on the N800 LCD controller)	14:14
derf	No, I think it'd be great.	14:15
derf	If it worked.	14:15
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lardman	derf: well I'm going to write a colourspace/scaling dsp task for Serge to test in mplayer with the 770, we'll see...	14:16
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doublec	is the 770 hardware quite different from the N800?	14:21
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trenka	doublec: yes	14:22
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lardman	doublec: but what exactly do you want to do? The DSPs are the same (for all I know anyway) for example	14:24
doublec	lardman: I was just curious - from what you said about being able to access the framebuffer on the 770 but not the N800	14:24
lardman	ah, the 770 appears to have the framebuffer "exported" to the DSP, while the n800 doesn't	14:25
lardman	I think this is done in the DSP kernel (for which I don't have all the source)	14:25
lardman	But I think the issue is that I need to define a memory region to export it (in the n800, it's already done on the 770) and there's no room	14:26
lardman	I need to see if I can override the built-in memory regions	14:26
lardman	~lart ITT advanced search - been sitting there doing nothing for ages	14:27
* infobot grabs a large, mis-shapened log, with squirrels, and beats ITT advanced search - been sitting there doing nothing until only the nuts remain ... which the squirrels run off with for ages		14:27
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lardman	:)	14:28
czr	hah	14:28
czr	maybe you should get the N810 and then attach it to the shark for lazer fun.	14:29
czr	I'm sure it would be more entertaining than the log-business	14:29
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sciboy	Still looking for a Jaiku invite. =P	14:33
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Sebastius	allright, i got a few lines of bash working. Can anyone give me a hint on how to make it a button or something on my 770, so that i don't have to start Xterm every morning?	14:33
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, how do you bundle bash scripts into applications for the Application Menu?	14:34
lardman	same as a usual application I imagine, provide the .desktop file etc.	14:34
GeneralAntilles	OK, how do you do that? :D	14:35
lardman	Look in the scratchbox tutorial - it shows you how to create the necessary files	14:35
Sebastius	cool	14:36
Sebastius	final question (i hope), where is the MMC located in the linux tree?	14:36
lardman	/media/mmcX	14:36
lardman	where X is 1 or 2	14:36
lardman	GeneralAntilles: search for "The .desktop File" in http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/Maemo_tutorial_bora.html#deployment	14:38
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GeneralAntilles	Thanks, lardman.	14:38
lardman	np	14:38
Sebastius	yeah, thanks :d	14:38
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* timely_changelog sighs		14:52
timely_changelog	"this may take a while"	14:52
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Astro	hi	14:53
Astro	how can I build the whole system from source?	14:54
czr	Astro, what do you mean by 'system'?	14:54
czr	and why.	14:55
GeneralAntilles	There's binary-only stuff on the device.	14:55
Astro	oh	14:55
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Astro	I'm yet undecided - is there a way to try Maemo in qemu?	14:56
GeneralAntilles	Dunno, but I can recommend it.	14:57
GeneralAntilles	Just don't bother with the N810 unless you really need the kebyoard	14:57
GeneralAntilles	N800 from buy.com is much cheaper.	14:57
czr	GeneralAntilles, where's your pedantry now? it's maemo :-)	14:57
czr	Astro, maemo is not a device emulator. it's just the SDK. so you won't be able to use it for pretty much anything else than building software	14:58
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GeneralAntilles	Hehe, I didn't realize I had pedantry. :D	14:59
sxpert-work	the keyboard and integrated GPS makes all the difference to me	15:00
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, maybe, but not at twice the price. >_>	15:01
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TPC	even if they were both the same price I would still get the N800	15:01
czr	GeneralAntilles, 770 vs N770 :-)	15:01
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GeneralAntilles	Especially when you consider that bluetooth GPS is much more accurate and a bluetooth keyboard is much easier to type on.	15:01
TPC	because I have tons of SD cards	15:02
lardman	I want built-in kb	15:02
TPC	and the 810 can only use minisd	15:02
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, true enough, czr.	15:02
TPC	so all my SD cards would be useless	15:02
lardman	each to their own	15:02
alterego	TPC, useless with what?	15:02
GeneralAntilles	Yeah dual-SDHC is a big advantage, too.	15:02
GeneralAntilles	The fullscreen keyboard is quite good for me.	15:02
alterego	The N810 handles full size SD cards.	15:02
czr	I find it quite painful	15:02
TPC	alterego, no it doesn't	15:02
alterego	That's not what the spec says.	15:02
TPC	at least not according to nokias website	15:02
alterego	The spec is somewhat vague but it says that you can use mini/micro SD cards with an adapter.	15:03
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GeneralAntilles	No, alterego, it's MiniSD only	15:03
TPC	alterego, it says that you can use mini, or micro with adapter	15:03
alterego	Shit.	15:03
alterego	Oh well :)	15:03
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, thoughtfix did a demo this morning	15:03
GeneralAntilles	It was quite clear.	15:03
alterego	I guess if I get accepted to the device program I'll use the N800 as a mobile storage unit ;)	15:03
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timely_changelog	alterego: i have a proto right here, it doesn't accept sd	15:04
alterego	timely_changelog, right, my mistake I guess ;)	15:04
* sxpert-work buys micro anyhow, they can fit in everything with the proper adapter :-)		15:04
TPC	and storage is much more important than GPS or keyboard	15:04
TPC	which is why I'll stick to the N800	15:04
TPC	besides, I already have a bluetooth GPS	15:04
alterego	Yeah, the two SD cards in the N800 are a huge benifit.	15:04
sxpert-work	TPC: it all depends on your usage	15:04
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TPC	sxpert-work, yep	15:04
sxpert-work	TPC: I intend to use it as a surveying station.	15:04
sxpert-work	so storage is less important than the compactness from integrated gps/keyboard	15:05
alterego	To be honest, for me, capacity is more important than what the media format is ..	15:06
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alterego	So, as long as I can get good size mini SD cards I'm happy.	15:06
GeneralAntilles	MiniSD < SD	15:06
GeneralAntilles	4GB is what's reasonably available right now	15:06
sxpert-work	I have yet to fill up the 1G micro-sd I have in my garmin GPS	15:06
TPC	well, my other devices use SD	15:06
GeneralAntilles	versus 16GB	15:06
TPC	the camera for example	15:06
TPC	having all devices use the same format is an advantage	15:06
alterego	TPC, you should be able to run an external USB card reader through USB on the device.	15:07
TPC	one of the things I use my N800 for is as a larger screen to view the pictures I took with my camera	15:07
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TPC	alterego, where did you get that idea?	15:07
timely_changelog	tpc: does your camera support usb?	15:07
alterego	Without a powered hub.	15:07
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alterego	TPC, if you enable OTG host mode using the kernel sources.	15:07
TPC	timely_changelog, yes	15:07
alterego	Get/make a USB sex changer cable.	15:08
alterego	And you're sorted.	15:08
lardman	sex changer!	15:08
TPC	I suppose that would work	15:08
lardman	gender changer?	15:08
TPC	but putting in the card is faster	15:08
GeneralAntilles	Bow chika wow wow	15:08
TPC	and I don't have to have both devices up	15:08
alterego	lardman, there's a difference?	15:08
GeneralAntilles	Gender is a personality thing, while sex is a biological/genetic thing. :P	15:09
lardman	alterego: not really, but it should be called a gender changer, sex changes are a bit different... :D	15:09
alterego	lardman, sex and gender mean the same thing in this context :P	15:09
lardman	yes	15:09
lardman	just sounds strange :)	15:09
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celesteh	the term "gender changer" is problematic	15:09
lardman	how so?	15:10
celesteh	well, for the reasons you guys just went over	15:10
lardman	oh I see, I thought there was a problem with "gender"	15:10
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celesteh	some folks find the whole labelling of cables as male and female to be offensive, but i don't quite understand their viewpoint	15:10
lardman	ire they the same people who don't use the useful gender spcific terms actor and actress? :)	15:11
alterego	I bet I'm gonna be really unlucky and not get accepted into the device program.	15:11
alterego	500 units and god knows how many applicants ^_^	15:11
celesteh	well, i don't use such terms, so it's not a complete overlap	15:12
czr	replicants	15:12
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czr	hey alterego	15:12
lardman	500 is quite a few actually. Didn't they have 200 last time?	15:12
alterego	Hey czr, how are you doing this fine day?	15:12
timely_changelog	there aren't 5000 garage projects	15:12
timely_changelog	there aren't 500 garage projects	15:12
timely_changelog	so i don't see any reason to complain or worry, just apply	15:12
alterego	timely_changelog, it's open to everyone not just developers.	15:12
czr	alterego, so far so good. or something. didn't sleep too much, but still going on strong	15:13
timely_changelog	not true	15:13
timely_changelog	I can't get one	15:13
lardman	your a Nokian?	15:13
timely_changelog	(Nokians are explicitly banned)	15:13
alterego	timely_changelog, probably because you're a Nokian :P	15:13
* lardman can't spell any more		15:13
alterego	timely_changelog, what are you complaining about you get your units for free :P	15:13
timely_changelog	I'm not complaining, merely noting	15:13
alterego	;)	15:13
* timely_changelog goes back to noting changes from change logs		15:14
alterego	Heh	15:14
alterego	czr, you still working on the documentation?	15:14
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czr	bloody yes sir	15:17
czr	had to redo about 1/3 of the already published stuff (I wasn't working on that before)	15:17
czr	but at least the first part seems in better shape now	15:17
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lardman	wha-hey I see a gap in the n800's memory entry table, framebuffer here we come	15:20
* czr adds some padding around lardman so that he can be more comfortable inside the buffer		15:20
czr	alterego, when will you throw out the final version out of the window?	15:21
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lardman	thanks czr	15:23
* lardman is off for lunch/may work from home this arvo		15:23
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alterego	czr, any time now ;)	15:24
alterego	I'm working on making ruby-osso more rubyesque.	15:25
alterego	And documentat/tests	15:25
czr	cool	15:25
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Sebastius	a question, i've made a bash script executable. To have it in my Task Navigator, do i only have to make a shortcut or something? Oh, on a N770 btw :P. I've tried reading the mameo application tutorial, but am a bit lost with it.	15:43
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* timely_changelog frowns		16:06
db48x	sp3000: got a second?	16:06
timely_changelog	why would someone want to fork maemo mapper?	16:06
sp3000	db48x?	16:07
db48x	sp3000: what's the easiest way to make the n800 not suspend while it's on ac power?	16:07
sp3000	db48x: suspend as in what symptom	16:07
db48x	as in the screen goes dark, and I can no longer interact with it via VNC	16:08
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\|tbb\|	search acmonitor on itt forum	16:08
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db48x	\|tbb\|: cool, I'll check that out	16:09
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* sp3000 wonders which font the horribly ugly jagged sans all over the web on this desktop is		16:11
* sp3000 has helvetica and arial for candidates		16:12
Jaffa	timely_changelog: IIRC, the maemo mapper source code /was/ one big .c file	16:12
TPC	I read somewhere that maemo mappers source code would be split into multiple files for version 2.0	16:12
alterego	They're unhappy with how it works?	16:13
alterego	Have a major feature they want to implement.	16:13
alterego	Who knows :P	16:13
TPC	would be easier to just make a patch	16:13
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db48x	hmm	16:16
db48x	acmonitor doesn't quite do it	16:16
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alterego	db48x, if you're writing a program to do it you can use the osso API it has a function that keeps the backlight on.	16:16
alterego	Though you have to call it every 60 seconds.	16:16
czr	alterego, I actually just wrote one :-)	16:16
db48x	hrm	16:16
czr	part of the part2 of the material actually.	16:16
alterego	:)	16:16
\|tbb\|	you can set it with gconf hack	16:17
db48x	all I want to do is run this thing unattended, but I suppose I can leave a very simple program running	16:17
sp3000	timely_changelog: ooh, a "let's do a source reorg" fork! :D	16:17
sp3000	those are the best	16:17
derf	db48x: What part does acmonitor not quite do?	16:18
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db48x	derf: it still suspends	16:19
db48x	\|tbb\|: details?	16:19
derf	You're supposed to set a really long timeout.	16:19
hell	hi. Are there any compilation of docs about maemo? I want to read they in train, no inet...	16:19
derf	Or presumably a timeout of 0 would disable it.	16:19
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db48x	that's worth a try	16:20
Tak	I don't think a 0 timeout works...	16:20
derf	All acmonitor does is maintain separate settings for AC and battery power.	16:20
derf	You still have to actually set them.	16:20
db48x	derf: I understand that	16:20
\|tbb\|	with gconf u can set the timeout	16:20
db48x	the point is that I want it to stay on forever, so that I don't have to interact with it every so often	16:21
TPC	if someone makes an app like that I would be interested in it as well	16:21
TPC	thats how my old pda worked, if it was on AC the screen remained on unless you turned it off manually	16:22
derf	Well you could probably set it to over 500 hours without problems.	16:22
derf	How close an approximation of "forever" do you need?	16:23
db48x	ok, but then I have to remember to touch it every 500 hours	16:23
db48x	until I unplug it	16:23
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derf	If you can't manage to touch it once a month...	16:23
db48x	I agree that this isn't exactly a typical usage pattern	16:24
Tak	easy enough to make an applet that sets a timer for 59s	16:25
derf	Anyway, "500 hours" assumes they internally keep it as milliseconds.	16:25
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derf	If it's actually used as seconds, you can go up to about 60 years.	16:25
GeneralAntilles	I'm not sure why "Never" isn't an option in settings	16:26
Tak	probably because there's not an easy way to do that with the gconf value	16:27
db48x	well, a timeout of 0 wouldn't make much sense when interpreted literally	16:27
mik_	pupnik: toolbar as pgup doesnÄÄ't work in ssh + screen + irssi	16:27
db48x	in fact it won't let you set the timeout to less than a minute	16:28
mik_	can anyone show me how to send a pg-up in irssi in screen in ssh in xterminal to scroll up?	16:28
derf	db48x: Yes it will.	16:28
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db48x	derf: it won't let me select '30 seconds' or '1 minute', so that seems like a natural conclusion :)	16:29
Tak	http://rafb.net/p/ztKqUf12.html	16:29
db48x	anyway	16:30
derf	Funny. It lets me select them.	16:30
derf	Sounds like a personal problem to me.	16:30
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czr	derf, maybe you just think it lets you select them..	16:33
hell	so, there are no pdf docs available, only on site?	16:33
db48x	ok, I used gconf to add a few mor values, but it won't let me select 0 for the blank timeout	16:33
derf	czr: I also probably just think I can count to ten and then it dims the display.	16:34
czr	derf, funny thing. me too	16:35
db48x	bah, busybox doesn't have fc	16:35
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db48x	ahh, I see	16:36
db48x	it disables any selections in the blank time dropdown that are smaller than your selection in the dim time dropdown	16:37
derf	Yes.	16:38
* Tak files a bug		16:39
derf	However, setting it to 0 does not appear to actually work.	16:39
derf	It still dims at 10.	16:39
db48x	yea	16:39
Tak	yeah - I tried that	16:39
* Tak made a home applet to futz with power management settings		16:39
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sciboy	Hmmm	16:43
db48x	oops	16:43
db48x	I accidentally copied an x86-64 firefox to my n800	16:43
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sciboy	Heh	16:44
jumpula	copy qemu too, and run the firefox from there :)	16:45
jumpula	(don't know if they have support for emulating x86_64 from arm, though)	16:45
db48x	heh, that'd be fun	16:45
dpb_	lol	16:46
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timely_changelog	sp3000: fwiw, i'm slowly fixing http://swift/~timeless/blog/news/9/	16:54
timely_changelog	atm, that has a list of all the changes i expect to mention	16:55
timely_changelog	if it looks like something obvious is missing, please send me an email (or poke me monday?)	16:55
timely_changelog	for everyone else, here are 549 lines in the document	16:55
timely_changelog	400 of them need to be replaced with English	16:56
timely_changelog	i think if i'm lucky, i'll be done in 2 business days (wednesday morning)	16:56
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derf	db48x: So, if you set your dim timeout to 0, then reboot the device, it appears to work.	16:59
Tak	wow, really?	16:59
derf	It's been sitting here a few minutes and it hasn't dimmed yet.	17:00
Tak	does it need to be a hard reboot? (e.g. unplugged)	17:00
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derf	Oh, wait, there it went.	17:00
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derf	I wonder what the actual timeout is now.	17:00
Tak	heh, doh!	17:00
Tak	rand() * rand()	17:00
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db48x	yea, I already tried that	17:04
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db48x	it seemed to use 2 minutes and 5 minutes	17:04
derf	Yeah.	17:04
derf	Well, I mean, 60 years should be enough, right?	17:05
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db48x	so either it remembered the previous settings, or those are the defaults	17:05
derf	No, those are the defaults.	17:05
derf	Because that is not what mine were set to previously.	17:05
db48x	either way it's already special-casing 0 seconds, so we should see about changing the behavior	17:06
derf	File a bug!	17:06
guardian	who's using sardine ? is there the new hildon input method framework in sardine ?	17:07
guardian	yeah from 2006	17:09
db48x	heh	17:09
sp3000	db48x: bug 425 fwiw	17:09
_Monkey	Bug 425 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425	17:09
db48x	it doesn't convert the time into years	17:09
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sp3000	the monkey should learn to summarize bugs or something	17:09
db48x	I have to set it to 5256000 minutes	17:09
sp3000	not to mention report changes perhaps?	17:09
sp3000	it's not like we have so much it would flood :)	17:10
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lopz	hola	17:38
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DRoBeR	MiaO	17:40
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czr	sp3000, I can make more bugs!	17:43
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czr	seriously, summarization would be nice	17:43
czr	also new bug reports	17:43
sp3000	we should bribe wolf into running a mozbot :P	17:44
Sebastius	anyone here who is a bit more familiar with Bash scripting than me?	17:46
pupnik	Sebastius: you can launch bash scripts from menu with load-applet-run or osso-statusbar-cpu programs	17:48
pupnik	load-applet-run	17:48
_Monkey	load-applet-run is John Costigan's awesome toolbar applet to monitor cpu and launch programs: http://gnuite.com:8080/nokia770/	17:48
pupnik	osso-statusbar-cpu	17:48
_Monkey	somebody said osso-statusbar-cpu was at http://www.maemo-hackers.org/wiki/OssoStatusbarCpu	17:48
Sebastius	cool! thanks	17:49
pupnik	for logging purposes, it's "thanks pupnik!" :)	17:50
Sebastius	another question, in Basic (yeah i know) there is the 'Case' statement, so you can check a variable against a number of possible outcomes (monday, tuesday etc), and selecting apropriate actions after that. Is there a bash equivalent?	17:50
Sebastius	Thanks pupnik!	17:50
GeneralAntilles	Happen to have a link for the combined memory/CPU history app with clock overlay?	17:50
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pupnik	that's osso-statusbar-copu	17:50
sp3000	Sebastius: well you can rule out monday	17:51
sp3000	and most of friday	17:51
GeneralAntilles	Thanks, pupnik!	17:51
sp3000	and definitely saturday	17:51
Sebastius	thanks sp3000!	17:51
sp3000	and at that point, well...	17:51
Sebastius	:P	17:51
sp3000	but yes, sh has case	17:52
czr	Sebastius, why didn't you look for the guide I gave you the name of?	17:52
czr	Sebastius, yes, there is. it's called 'case'. "help case"	17:52
pupnik	yes case "$var" in / value1) / command1; / ;; / value2) / command2; / *) / commanddefault; / ;; / esac	17:52
Sebastius	thanks czr, guess i missed something	17:52
czr	Sebastius, google for 'advanced bash scripting guide'. it has a lot of examples	17:53
pupnik	but does busybox ash have it?	17:53
czr	case? sure.	17:53
czr	at least it should. I think it's mandated by posix.	17:53
pupnik	forgot a ;; after command2;	17:53
Sebastius	guys, thanks for the great help :)	17:54
pupnik	i dno't know if that will work on the device tho	17:54
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Sebastius	i really love this 770 already, got it yesterday. The possibilities are endless (well, with the low memory popping up every now and then...)	17:57
zeenix	Sebastius: i wonder what would you think of N810 :)	17:58
Sebastius	better?	17:58
* lardman was overly optimistic about N800 framebuffer access :(		17:59
czr	even more endless possibilities	17:59
GeneralAntilles	Sebastius, I recommend upgrading to 2007HE if you haven't	17:59
czr	lardman, the padding didn't help?	17:59
Sebastius	2007HE?	17:59
_Monkey	2007HE is really great	17:59
lardman	czr: too much, ran out of TLBs	17:59
Sebastius	i've got 2006 from nokia?	17:59
czr	lardman, argh. that hurts	18:00
czr	lardman, all TLBs are spoken for already?	18:00
czr	or you were joking? :-)	18:00
lardman	no really	18:00
czr	damn. that sucks.	18:00
lardman	it could only allocate ~5 more, then failed	18:00
lardman	but it must be possible to use one of the already-mapped regions	18:00
Sebastius	GeneralAntilles, 2007HE?	18:00
lardman	I just can't get it to work correctly	18:00
* czr nods at lardman		18:01
* Tak also recommend enabling maximum swap		18:01
lardman	This is for the DSP	18:01
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GeneralAntilles	Sebastius, http://os2007on770.garage.maemo.org/	18:02
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, swap is also a good idea.	18:02
GeneralAntilles	Will clear up pretty much all of those memory erros.	18:02
Sebastius	What would be the advantage from jumping away from a stable 2006 to a HE2007?	18:04
Tak	more software, better thumb support	18:05
Sebastius	and how stable/unstable is 2007 for 770?	18:05
GeneralAntilles	Faster	18:06
GeneralAntilles	It works well for me	18:06
GeneralAntilles	Definitely more unexpected reboots than 2006	18:06
GeneralAntilles	but the extra speedup and features are worth it.	18:06
Sebastius	it's actually faster? wow that would be welcome.	18:06
Tak	hmm - I experience fewer unexpected reboots	18:07
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Sebastius	can i flash back to 2006 if i have too many troubles?	18:08
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Tak	sure	18:10
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lardman	shame to see that the powervr mbx isn't currently used in the n810	18:14
lardman	and that the memory bandwidth issue remains	18:14
pupnik	it's a n800 with gps and keyboard, i think the lateral move is good	18:15
Tak	lardman: yeah	18:16
Tak	pupnik: yeah...would have been nice if they'd fixed some acknowledged hw mistakes, though	18:16
lardman	but it has new software (I'd hoped that powervr would be enabled) and runs faster (I'd hoped that the memory bandwidth problems would be reduced by this)	18:16
alterego	That is a shame, but there are signs on the horizon that it will be working one of these days. :)	18:16
alterego	How about a maemo google earth folks ;)	18:16
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lardman	:)	18:16
Tak	I demand Google Yoggoth!	18:17
alterego	With the GPS that would be amazing.	18:17
lardman	I think a nice accelerated Quake would be pretty cool, esp with a keyboard :)	18:17
alterego	Heh	18:17
alterego	I'm not much of a gamer anymore.	18:17
alterego	The only game I seem to play now-a-days is netris ^_^	18:17
lardman	nor am I, but it would be cool :)	18:17
alterego	Quake II would be better :P	18:17
GeneralAntilles	Heck, with PowerVR, we might even be able to run Quake III	18:18
alterego	Could hold maemo death matches ^_^	18:18
pupnik	"For this I optimized the RGB->YUY2 conversion a fair bit, and I'm now getting higher fps with it at 400x240 than with the XSP pixel doubliing, so the XSP doubling has been removed." - ZerionSeven	18:18
lardman	GeneralAntilles: I think that's one of their demos isn't it?	18:18
lardman	pupnik: where's that from?	18:18
GeneralAntilles	The quetoo thread.	18:19
* lardman has a browse		18:19
pupnik	ZerionSeven seems to claim he's running the framebuffer in YUV2 mode	18:19
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pupnik	which afaik is possible but surprising, since i haven't seen it done before	18:19
alterego	I don't even know what that means.	18:19
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* alterego must remember to port ruby/SDL		18:19
alterego	Heck, I'll do it now.	18:20
lardman	pupnik: that's how mplayer works	18:20
lardman	I think...	18:20
pupnik	i haven't looked into it much, but if it means less bits per pixel, it could be an effective trick to bypass framebuffer bandwidth issues	18:21
lardman	http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine?do=post_view_printable;post=19711;list=maemo	18:21
alterego	Ah	18:21
pupnik	i read the thread	18:24
* Tak drops all his apps down to 1bpp		18:24
lardman	:)	18:25
alterego	I really like the profile idea on maemo.org	18:25
alterego	Makes a me feel more a part of the community :)	18:26
DRoBeR	Nice nick name, Alter ego. :)	18:27
czr	it makes you feel like someone is profiling you. :-)	18:27
alterego	Thank you :)	18:27
DRoBeR	Have you studied latin?	18:27
alterego	No, not really.	18:27
alterego	Why do you ask?	18:27
czr	you don't seem yourself? :-)	18:27
DRoBeR	Just, curiosity. I'm Spanish and I never studied it... it is a pity ... lot of Spanish people done it.	18:28
alterego	Ah	18:28
alterego	I've always been interested in Latin, maybe one day I'll learn it.	18:29
DRoBeR	Hehe, It is not than easy as I though long time ago but I still like it. I know just few words and sentences. I'm thinking about buying a good book but there's only French, German and English books for learning... it sucks	18:30
alterego	Yeah, French, German and English suck.	18:31
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Yusei-	hi, is this the good place to ask stupid questions about installing software on an n800 ?	18:32
alterego	As good as any :)	18:32
mgedmin	there are no stupid questions	18:32
czr	alterego, you took the words out of my mouth. literally :-). although my smiley would have been different..	18:32
alterego	Heh	18:32
alterego	Maybe we're spending too much time together ;)	18:32
czr	maybe we are. stop following me!	18:33
alterego	Hah	18:33
Yusei-	I've been trying to install Kagu but I've got dependencies problems	18:33
Yusei-	the package manager doesn't find libsdl	18:33
alterego	Interesting.	18:33
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Yusei-	si I must be missing a repository	18:33
pupnik	repositories?	18:34
_Monkey	repositories is http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php	18:34
mgedmin	mhm	18:34
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mgedmin	libsdl1.2 comes from http://repository.maemo.org	18:34
Yusei-	thanks, and how can I add repositories to the package manager ?	18:35
mgedmin	don't know if that's the SDK one or the Extras one	18:35
Yusei-	well, that's a stupid question, I suppose the default user is root and can edit the sources	18:35
mgedmin	no	18:35
pupnik	you can add repositories in package manager as normal user	18:35
mgedmin	there's a menu in the application manager	18:35
pupnik	s/package/applicatino	18:35
Yusei-	I see, thank you	18:36
* Tak update maemo profile		18:36
pupnik	maybe this is python sdl?	18:36
Yusei-	I'm having trouble remembering there is a menu	18:36
Yusei-	:)	18:36
mgedmin	okay, libsdl1.2 is in the SDK repository	18:37
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Yusei-	oh and something else... when I mount the device I can read and write the memory card, but is there a way to mount the device's internal memory ?	18:38
mgedmin	it's already mounted	18:39
mgedmin	python2.5-pygame, which kagu needs, is in the maemo extras repository	18:39
Yusei-	I mean when I plug it into my computer	18:39
mgedmin	and so's kagu	18:39
mgedmin	Yusei-: no, you can't	18:39
Yusei-	ok, thanks	18:39
mgedmin	well, you could do it over the network	18:39
mgedmin	e.g. I use sshfs for that	18:39
Yusei-	I see	18:39
mgedmin	the restriction comes from the USB mass storage interface: you can't have two filesystem drivers access the same block device at the same time	18:40
alterego	sshfs is the win!	18:40
mgedmin	that it is	18:40
alterego	I like the gnomevfs integration too.	18:41
alterego	Though, unfortunately the gnomevfs implementation is a bit limited compared to the proper fuse sshfs.	18:41
* sp3000 would like sshfs more if it didn't crash occasionally		18:43
alterego	I've never had that problem.	18:44
alterego	How does it crash?	18:45
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DRoBeR	"<alterego> Yeah, French, German and English suck." haha	18:48
DRoBeR	Aren't you English? :)	18:48
alterego	I am yes ;)	18:48
DRoBeR	Don't you like your language?	18:48
alterego	It's okay.	18:48
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alterego	I don't really know much about linguistics to know what makes a good spoken language ;)	18:49
alterego	All I know is there's a lot of crap in the dictionary and Americans don't spell or talk English.	18:49
DRoBeR	Do you know "Apertium" project? :) It is a translator tool. You can find lot of nice people who like languages in that room.	18:49
DRoBeR	hahaha	18:50
alterego	Cool.	18:50
DRoBeR	alterego, which country of America you said? ;P	18:50
pupnik	or join #lojban	18:50
DRoBeR	I don't know a country called America. :)	18:50
alterego	Heh	18:50
alterego	Yeah, what's an American?	18:51
alterego	:)	18:51
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alterego	Appearantly the French _really_ dislike Americans, what's it like in Spain?	18:51
celesteh	I lived in Paris a couple of years ago and did not find myself especially disliked	18:51
Yusei-	I have to disagree, many french people unexplicably like americans	18:52
alterego	Maybe that's just Paris :)	18:52
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celesteh	Well, they want people to try to conform to their idea of social roles	18:52
* Tak going to paris this summer		18:52
alterego	Strange, I was talking to a couple of American folk last night and they didn't feel welcome at all.	18:52
lardman	pupnik: do you know why/how the xsp scaling can be slower than RGB->YUY2 conversion?	18:52
celesteh	but when you fail to, and you're american, it can be amusing for them	18:52
celesteh	nobody is outgoing. they have trouble making friends themselves if they move	18:53
celesteh	so, no, you wouldn't feel "welcome"	18:53
alterego	Ah	18:53
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DRoBeR	alterego, I don't dislike "americans"	18:53
celesteh	it takes a LONG time to establish a social circle	18:53
alterego	They also seem to expect you to speak French, I mean really .. Who speaks French now-a-days :)	18:53
DRoBeR	I dislike the use of that word to talk about "usa people"	18:53
lardman	pupnik: is this some issue with the Xserver code surrounding the pixel scaling call, or a bandwidth issue of using the RGB rather than YUY2 format?	18:53
pupnik	no but he's saying he's running a 400x240 YUV2 window, which i don't understand.	18:53
celesteh	and if you're not fluent in french, that's an additional border	18:53
kpel	hi guys	18:53
lardman	pupnik: the lcd controller accepts that format	18:54
pupnik	yes, but he implies it does pixel doubling in that format, yes?	18:54
alterego	I like France :)	18:54
lardman	ah that's true, the lcd controller can do arbitrary scaling	18:54
lardman	on the n800	18:54
alterego	I don't know much French but I used to go there a lot skiing. I also know this _really_ nice French girl. She's extremely pretty and really cool.	18:55
alterego	And the accent is kind of a turn on ^_^	18:55
pupnik	if that's the case, i'd be curious to see about an extension to sdl that allows setting that video mode and transparently blitting to it with updaterect()	18:56
zoran	sshfs looks interesting; sftp could be similar	18:56
alterego	I mount my tablet with sshfs into my scratchbox environment.	18:57
lardman	pupnik: start patching!	18:57
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zoran	I have a lot of remote ssh conns; could be handy to have them all in one dir	18:57
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zoran	(subdirs, or course)	18:58
alterego	Yeah, I also use it to mount my /srv/vhosts directory on my server.	18:58
alterego	When I'm editing images that's exceptionally useful :)	18:58
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zoran	alterego, how it goes with graphics?	18:59
alterego	zoran, it means I can edit images that are stored on a remote server locally with the gimp.	18:59
alterego	It's just an access method.	18:59
zoran	huh!	19:00
alterego	Really useful when you're developing a site.	19:00
zoran	what is a traffic footprint?	19:00
alterego	Well, I've not had any speed issues. I've got a 2M connection.	19:00
zoran	I tried hp testdrive windows 2003 and used 1 Mb just to log in	19:01
alterego	Just don't do anything that involves particularly large files.	19:01
alterego	scp is better for transfering those kinds of things.	19:01
zoran	yes, and sftp	19:01
zoran	hp lets people to play woth their new servers	19:02
alterego	I've actually never used sftp, except through the gnome "connect to" facility.	19:02
zoran	I really like it	19:02
alterego	scp has always suited my needs :)	19:02
zoran	good enough	19:02
alterego	and sshfs is fantastic.	19:02
zoran	gonna try it out this days	19:02
lardman	have a nice weekend chaps	19:03
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zoran	some older servers (plan9 or vms) does not let people use sftp	19:03
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zoran	fs could be a way around	19:03
alterego	Interesting.	19:03
alterego	Do you deal a bit with Plan 9?	19:03
zoran	vax vms uses v 1	19:03
alterego	Ah, can't you compile openssl/ssh ?	19:04
zoran	so I have no luck with dropbear	19:04
zoran	on vms it is a layer product	19:04
zoran	very proprietary, if you are open source soul	19:04
alterego	Ah	19:06
alterego	I'm one of those _everything_ should be open source people.	19:06
zoran	yep	19:06
alterego	I don't like it when things get in my way when I'm working on projects.	19:06
zoran	vms is so good, that people disregard that	19:06
* pupnik shakes a bony fist at the pile of unfinished projects		19:07
alterego	I only deal with Linux now-a-days and it's pretty much all Debian.	19:08
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alterego	Except a NetBSD system I work on sometimes.	19:08
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zoran	would be my linux choice	19:08
alterego	Yeah, I moved from Debian to Fedora but came back to debian a year or so ago and I'm wondering why I ever changed :)	19:08
zoran	they are two sides of universe, I think	19:09
pupnik	evil, and FOSS	19:09
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zoran	:)	19:09
zoran	not in deed	19:09
alterego	I think I changed because I was interested to see what Fedora was like, I got given a new laptop so I installed it on that. It was comfortable so I kept with it for a while.	19:09
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zoran	I had RH some years ago, till they became dynosaur	19:10
alterego	I found I was forever getting annoyed by RPM's and YUM.	19:11
zoran	yes, deb and apt-get sounds better	19:11
zoran	not for all around the globe	19:12
alterego	Yeah,	19:12
zoran	but freebsd way is even better	19:12
zoran	net and open bsd use it already	19:12
alterego	ports yeah.	19:12
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zoran	and some linuces	19:12
alterego	I've not really got any experience with that.	19:12
zoran	ah, so easy	19:13
alterego	I'm a user on a NetBSD system but I obviously don't have to deal with package management :)	19:13
zoran	it is the same as in freebsd	19:13
zoran	2 ways	19:13
zoran	first is: pkg_add thisorthat.tbz	19:13
zoran	second is: make; make install	19:14
zoran	nothing more	19:14
zoran	yesterday I dound something interesting to me: pynetfilter_conntrack	19:14
zoran	*found	19:15
alterego	apt-get install package :P	19:15
zoran	hm, it is python lib	19:15
zoran	it should be like kernel module to act as stateful tracking	19:16
zoran	I have a feeling I could implement it on my 770	19:17
robtaylor	are there any nokians on channel with a N810 to hand?	19:17
zoran	he-he	19:17
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robtaylor	names	19:18
zoran	I read it will be available for a month or so	19:18
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zoran	or "/names"?	19:19
robtaylor	zoran: I know..	19:19
zoran	:)	19:19
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pupnik	was a funny chat robtaylor	19:19
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nad	Does anyone know what are these messages seen with dmesg: "EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled"	19:21
Tak	zoran: you forgot about the part where it can't find all of the dependencies	19:21
Tak	and also the part where you need to keep a huge local port tree on your pc	19:22
zoran	hm, I found the list	19:22
Tak	other than that, it's pretty much like that	19:22
zoran	conntrack?	19:22
zoran	Tak, I just put lib inside the path and python uses it	19:23
zoran	even more, libs are from my bsd box	19:24
alterego	Sounds fiddly.	19:24
alterego	I think I'll stick to Debian.	19:24
alterego	It's familiar and we're on the same wavelength I feel :)	19:25
zoran	no, I think about maemo	19:25
alterego	Oh right.	19:25
* Tak agree with alterego		19:25
zoran	to add lib to work on 770 as stateful tracker	19:25
zoran	it is debian in heart	19:25
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zoran	k, needs ctypes and IPy	19:28
davis	hello	19:28
_Monkey	privet, davis	19:28
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Tak	hello	19:32
_Monkey	bonjour, Tak	19:32
* DRoBeR is away: show(er)time ^_^		19:32
davis	is this a channel for talking about general n770 usage?	19:33
Tak	yes.	19:33
davis	Good	19:33
davis	I am using the xterm, I know ctrl-p and n give previous and next command lines. How do you scroll the cursor left and right to do command line editing?	19:34
zoran	buttons?	19:34
davis	heh, that simple?	19:35
davis	thanks	19:35
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nad	Any easy way to press Return and Escape in xterm?	19:45
Disconnect	escape is the loopy-back hw button. return is .. um.. no. :(	19:46
Disconnect	(well.. yes. get an n810 :) .. but thats not a proper answer)	19:46
zoran	nad, no xterm?	19:47
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mgedmin	nad: Return is on the virtual kb	19:48
nad	I use osso-xterm, but sometimes I want to just repeat a command. I press the C-p button and then to press Return I need to make it display the keyboard and press it there...	19:48
mgedmin	I've also added it to the sidebar	19:49
mgedmin	which is the very nifty feature of the maemo-hackers version of osso-xterm	19:49
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zoran	as xterm is loaded, there is possibility to add smaller win manager	19:49
nad	mgedmin: what is the code for Return for the sidebar "Return"?	19:50
mgedmin	let me check...	19:50
mgedmin	it's something tricky, I remember that	19:50
nad	zoran: not sure what you mean...	19:51
mgedmin	KP_Enter	19:51
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Solarion	wow. and here it is. :)	19:51
Solarion	Is there trouble adding accounts to the garage?	19:51
Solarion	(Known trouble, that is	19:51
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mgedmin	nad: you can find out the key names with xev on your linux desktop	19:52
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mgedmin	you can also make the xterm shortcuts enter more than one character by separating key names with ,	19:52
mgedmin	I had a button for entering . ~/.profile once, when osso-xterm had that bug with not spawning a login shell	19:52
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nad	mgedmin: Thx, it works!	19:54
Solarion	no known trouble then?	19:55
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Solarion	OK, is there anyone here who knows the details of the maemo garage account creation system?	20:01
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Solarion	Fantabulous. If anyone knows the maemo garage guys, I'm not sure what the problem is, but both accounts I've tried to create keep getting 'Access denied\nCredentials you entered do not correspond to valid account." errors when I try to log in from the registration confirmation email link.	20:07
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zoran	maybe you should wait a little bit?	20:07
Solarion	zoran: I've given one of 'em 2 hours.	20:07
zoran	:)	20:08
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simon_	Solarion, did you use uppercase letters within your username?	20:08
Solarion	simon_: yes	20:08
zoran	I saw some explanation on maemo-users to wait	20:08
simon_	Solarion, that sounds like the reason	20:08
Solarion	simon_: why are uppercase letters a problem?	20:08
simon_	Solarion, iirc there was a tiny text stating that the username should use lowercase letters	20:08
Tak	I experience that issue as well, Solarion	20:08
* Tak Tak -> tak		20:09
Solarion	simon_: wow. OK. I'm just a stupid monkey, then. There it is right there. :)	20:09
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simon_	Solarion, guess how I figured out that there was such a limitation ;)	20:10
Solarion	my apologies for wasting everyone's time because of my own inability to read/comprehend/follow directions. :)	20:10
Solarion	simon_: :)	20:12
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Tak	afaict, it doesn't reject uppercase, just translates it to lowercase	20:13
Solarion	Tak: confirmed. I just lower-cased my original username, and it worked. Funky.	20:13
Solarion	Now the question is, should I go ahead with the second account I created? :)	20:14
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pupnik	wow, 6 months later i see the answer to the maemo.org login problem	20:23
Disconnect	..isn't tolower() a simple function in most every web language?	20:27
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alterego	:)	20:30
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alterego	pupnik, problem? What problem? :D	20:30
pupnik	oh nevermind, my broken login is lowercase	20:32
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Rhys	i have the vpnc, connected and working. it just seems to kill my network, as once it connects, no applications can connect to the internet anymore.	20:38
* \|R wonders what he did wrong with his maemo-mapper install not to have google/M$ maps choices...		20:38
tomv	hi, what does libfakeroot: connect: Connection timed out signify when I'm trying to install the 4.0 beta sdk? (It appears after getting the Packages files when trying to install packages.)	20:39
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GeneralAntilles	You hit the "Download..." button in the Manage Repositories, \|R?	20:43
Rhys	?	20:43
Rhys	ah	20:43
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Rhys	:( anyone know why vpn kills my connection?	20:47
GeneralAntilles	VNC or VPN?	20:47
\|R	GeneralAntilles : ah!	20:47
\|R	GeneralAntilles : that's where ;)	20:48
GeneralAntilles	Hmm . . . what's the tablet website for beginners?	20:48
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davis	i am struggling to get usb networking, working.	20:52
davis	i can get usb networking to ping ip addresses, but I can not get the dns part working.	20:52
Rhys	vnc	20:53
Rhys	!damnit. i mean vpn	20:53
davis	i have my /etc/resolv.conf file to use 127.0.0.1, 192.168.1.14, and even my pc's eth dns server.	20:53
davis	but still no go.	20:53
davis	nslookup foo says "*** Unknown host"	20:54
davis	it does not even look like it is trying to use a dns server.	20:54
davis	any idea?	20:54
GeneralAntilles	VPN might be crashing your network device, Rhys.	20:54
GeneralAntilles	davis, I have no experience with USB networking. Why not wifi?	20:55
Rhys	what? as soon as i shut it off, it works again.	20:55
davis	i am at work. We need leap to use wifi here.	20:55
GeneralAntilles	Then I can be no help to either of you. :D	20:55
davis	i don't think leap works on the nokia.	20:55
davis	np.	20:55
Rhys	got to go.	20:57
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davis	oddly enough, i don't have ping.	20:59
davis	i know you need to include that in config when you build busybox.	20:59
davis	i also looked at maemo-org and I don't see it there. What am I missing.	20:59
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[31d1]	you need one of the custom busybox	21:01
davis	hmm. where do i get that?	21:03
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davis	[31d1]: where do i get a custom busybox?	21:11
[31d1]	maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationCatalog2006 or something like that	21:14
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c0ffee	somebody from tokyo here?	21:56
Devamax	Hi everyone! Guys, my n800 has been on the table for some time, now it sugnals about battery dicharge and it's abit warm to touch. Is it all right? (Mayby wi-fi frequency warms it or something?).	21:56
Devamax	Coffee, nihonjin da ka	21:56
pupnik_	warm is ok	21:56
Devamax	thanx	21:56
c0ffee	Devamax, whatever that means - i don't speak japanese :)	21:57
Devamax	newemind)	21:57
DRoBeR	Is it not "Nihonjin desu ka?"	21:59
DRoBeR	?	21:59
Devamax	Desu is more polite form).	21:59
DRoBeR	Demo, watashi nihongo wakarimashen.	21:59
DRoBeR	ah, sugoi.	21:59
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DRoBeR	Doumo arigatou gozaimasu, Devamax-san. :)	22:00
Devamax	:).	22:00
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DRoBeR	alterego, memento mori et carpe diem, amici. ;)	22:09
alterego	Was that something about fish?	22:10
DRoBeR	Remember that you will die and harvest the day, friend.	22:10
Tak	s/harvest/seize/	22:10
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* DRoBeR is away: out of order.		22:10
alterego	;)	22:10
DRoBeR	Sorry, my English really sucks ^_^	22:10
Tak	s'ok, my french really sucks	22:10
Tak	but together, we shall rule the universe!	22:11
DRoBeR	is it a kind of joke?	22:11
DRoBeR	ah, ok. haha :) As purple tentacle.	22:11
DRoBeR	Well, I detach this IRC session. See you, maemo's pals.	22:12
Tak	au revoir	22:12
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konttori	anyone seen serge around?	22:29
konttori	Would be great if he could compile mplayer for chinook	22:29
ds3	on the 800, is there anything special with the bag/pouch that it comes with like the N770 lid has a mag switch to suspend/disconnect the network when it is in place	22:30
Tak	no.	22:31
ds3	can the 800 disconnect automatically or will it just burn power running WiFi?	22:31
TPC	I wouldn't call it burning power, it still lasts for many days with wifi on	22:32
Tak	not IME	22:32
ds3	so the battery life is better on then 800 then?	22:32
ds3	if I leave the 770 w/WiFi, the thing shutdown down in about a day	22:33
TPC	according to nokias website it should last about 6 days with wifi connected	22:33
TPC	I think it goes into a low-power mode on the wifi chip when not using it, but it stays connected	22:33
mgedmin	ds3: it's configurable	22:33
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ds3	mgedmin: is this the time setting?	22:33
mgedmin	huh?	22:33
TPC	and yes, you can set it to disconnect after 5, 10 or 60 minutes of inactivity	22:34
mgedmin	control panel -> connectivity -> idle timeout, IIRC	22:34
mgedmin	let me check...	22:34
alterego	Yeah, mine lasts for ages connected but dormant.	22:34
ds3	that's what i mean time[out] setting	22:34
alterego	Good for always on IM/VoIP	22:34
mgedmin	control panel -> connectivity -> idle times settings	22:34
alterego	Great feature.	22:34
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ds3	it is very tempting to get a N800 to replace the N770 right now	22:34
alterego	ds3, wait a little longer for the prices to come down.	22:35
ds3	the lid on the 770 is very nice protection/shutoff	22:35
mgedmin	I'm very happy with my N800 after using a 770 for quite a while	22:35
snowmoon	ok, wanted to try microb... installed played and uninstalled, but how do I get opera back?	22:35
ds3	alterego: you think there is room for it to drop a lot more?	22:35
alterego	ds3, have you applied for the developer program?	22:35
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alterego	ds3, sure, if the 770 is anything to go by :)	22:35
ds3	alterego: no, not yet...	22:35
ds3	okay	22:36
alterego	Well you should. An N810 would be better than an N800 :)	22:36
mgedmin	snowmoon: either uninstall microb or edit some text file in ~/ that has a configuration option that lets you show a menu item for switching the browser engine	22:36
alterego	Especially for 99 EUR ;)	22:36
ds3	770 + bt keyboard is very very very nice	22:36
alterego	:)	22:36
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snowmoon	mgedmin: did uninstall, how do I edit files in ~/?	22:37
ds3	doubling flash/ram AND a real SD slots makes the 800... :)~~~~	22:37
mgedmin	snowmoon: wait, what? I thought once you uninstalled it the browser would automatically switch back to opera	22:37
mgedmin	do you have a nonfunctional browser now?	22:37
snowmoon	yep... do I need to reboot?	22:37
* mgedmin does not know		22:37
alterego	Yeah, I would prefer a full size MMC/SD slot on the N810	22:37
ds3	the N810 looks more like a zaurus with the KB	22:38
snowmoon	Picked up the 770 for a c-note to see how the platform works... quite slick and faster than I expected	22:39
snowmoon	ordered a 2gb card to do some hacking	22:39
ds3	does the current 2007HE for the 770 still lack features compared to the stock 2006?	22:39
Ivan	Guys have anyone tried flash with more thw 2gb memory on n800? Does ir run fast enough to watch films etc?	22:39
snowmoon	ok, I'm stuck with non functional browser... damn, just when things were getting interesting	22:41
mgedmin	Ivan: I've a 4gb sd card in my n800	22:41
pupnik_	Ivan: yes, but full speed films currently only at 240 lines or less	22:41
mgedmin	flash speed is not the bottleneck	22:42
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alterego	Why would size make a memory card slower? :D	22:42
Ivan	Well, I've heard it does )	22:43
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alterego	That's insane.	22:43
Ivan	Perhaps))	22:43
Ivan	If it doesn't - than better))	22:43
snowmoon	So... is there any built in app that will let me get to the .browser file?	22:44
celesteh	Heh. There's a transfer rate limit, so a larger card doesn't mean you can get data faster, but it doesn't make it slower either	22:44
alterego	Of course it doesn't.	22:44
alterego	There might be a performance hit between SD/SDHC cards but that's not really got anything to do with size.	22:44
celesteh	there are no moving parts, so SD card don't have some of the shortcomings of disks	22:44
Ivan	tnx guys)	22:45
alterego	And I doubt there is a performance difference.	22:45
celesteh	like fragmentation is a problem with disks because the read head needs time to move, but not so with sd cards	22:45
mgedmin	snowmoon: AFAIK no, you need either osso-xterm or a ssh server for that	22:46
snowmoon	damn... looks like I'm going to learn how to reflash	22:47
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Ivan	It's rather easy actually ).	22:47
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bmidgley	ds3: it seems like battery life may not be as good in hacker edition	22:57
Tak	I don't notice a difference in battery life	22:57
pupnik_	i heard microwaving sd cards can improve their performance	22:58
Tak	really?!	22:58
pupnik_	:)	22:58
* Tak away (microwave)		22:58
celesteh	it works really well for CDs!	22:58
pupnik_	yeah i have a couple of 'treated' WinNT CDs	22:59
shapr	Anyone else having troubles with ncurses?	22:59
bmidgley	I don't know the specifics with sd, but in theory bigger card could be slower	22:59
bmidgley	it's a serial protocol and the (larger) address has to pass over that same serial interface	22:59
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GeneralAntilles	shapr, what sort of problems?	23:00
shapr	I tried to upgrade ncurses, but it wants to overwrite /usr/bin/clear which is also in some other package.	23:00
GeneralAntilles	ncurses-bin is broken	23:00
Tak	yeah, busybox	23:00
GeneralAntilles	You only want ncurses-bas (I think)	23:00
Tak	yeah, that sounds right	23:01
GeneralAntilles	You have to remove ncurses-bin	23:01
shapr	ok	23:01
Ivan	Microvaves are very helpful in all aspects of life, they can even enlarge your, well, whatever your want to be enlarged, you just need to make a hole of suitable size in your microvawe emitter (maybe owen) and isert.	23:01
GeneralAntilles	shapr, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8959	23:01
GeneralAntilles	Had the problem a few weeks ago.	23:01
GeneralAntilles	Don't recall exactly how I fixed it	23:01
Tak	damn...they never enlarge my food	23:01
GeneralAntilles	but it involved dpkg with lots of options.	23:01
GeneralAntilles	shapr, maybe this: dpkg -r --force-remove-reinstreq ncurses-bin	23:02
GeneralAntilles	*add an e top "-bas"	23:02
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GeneralAntilles	*to, not top	23:03
* GeneralAntilles needs to learn to type.		23:03
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shapr	GeneralAntilles: Yeah, that worked	23:07
GeneralAntilles	Good deal. :)	23:07
snowmoon	anyone know if the 770 IO bandwidth limit is per flash device.. or can you write to both the internal and external at full speed or interleave reading and writing without a penalty?	23:08
shapr	I can't get a2dp working on either my 770 with OS2007, or on my desktop, this is frustrating.	23:09
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alterego	Imagine what the N800/810 would be like with the PowerVR chip working and compiz or beryl ^_^	23:15
alterego	That would be super cool.	23:15
suihkulokki	more likely it would be HOT	23:15
alterego	:)	23:15
alterego	That'd show those iCrap pansies ^_^	23:15
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_trent_	anyone know why I can't seem to get fbreader installed on my new n800? I installed the latest libzlibrary from the fbreader site but when i try to install fbreader I get the error from app mgr. "application package missing libzlibrary-maemo2 (= .8.7-1)"	23:23
GeneralAntilles	Did you install the FBReader repo?	23:24
_trent_	maybe that is my problem	23:25
_trent_	let me give that a shot.. thanks	23:25
_trent_	its already there	23:25
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Ivan	Are there any other linux distributives working with n800 hardware?	23:26
GeneralAntilles	Try removing libzlibrary, updating the repos, and try installing FBReader again.	23:27
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_trent_	k	23:28
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* pupnik_ frolics and cavorts		23:29
_trent_	same error	23:30
GeneralAntilles	Dunno, I'm not savy enough to fix it.	23:30
GeneralAntilles	Anybody else want to take a stab?	23:30
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shapr	gwahr, a2dp is FRUSTRATING!	23:34
konttori	damn! I forgot my usb cable at work!	23:35
GeneralAntilles	What, you don't have more than one?	23:35
konttori	are you being nasty? No, I have only one micro usb	23:35
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[31d1]	use ssh	23:36
konttori	good point.	23:36
GeneralAntilles	Micro, ah.	23:38
GeneralAntilles	Lucky bastard. ;)	23:38
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tomv	is there python for chinook beta yet?	23:42
konttori	yeah	23:43
konttori	just use sardine repository	23:43
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luck^	tomv, a new version will be released next week	23:43
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tomv	konttori, luck^: thanks.	23:50
_trent_	i think fbreader is broken	23:51
shapr	Did anyone ever figure out whether the N810 really does have two SD slots?	23:51
konttori	tomv: did you get it working?	23:52
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tomv	konttori: didn't try yet.	23:55
konttori	you may need to have also extras bora and maemo bora active.	23:55
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konttori	ok. now I'm impressed.	23:56
konttori	I just made ukmp to make reflection on the fly.	23:56
konttori	slightly slower than before, but not to any meaningful extent	23:57
_trent_	i finally got fbreader to install correctly... from maemo site .. never from the fbreader site. thanks for the help	23:57
konttori	This will make HUGE UI possibilities.	23:57
konttori	wow. I'm kind of still blown away by that.	23:58

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