IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2007-10-17

Ar-rasbut i dont find the link00:00
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pupnikflasher?00:01
_Monkeyflasher is available from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com00:01
shaprI just got a bluetooth dongle, how do I pair with my desktop?00:01
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kalaanyone knows how to use something in the "Beneath a Steel Sky" under scummvm?00:06
kala:)00:06
pupniki played through it a few years ago00:07
kalawell, I can pick up a rung or something, but how to use it on the door?00:07
pupnikcan't remember, sorry00:07
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Ar-rastry to push or press00:08
* flip^ chuckles as he goes through the process of reinstalling everything on his n800 for the third time this week00:08
kalaoh, I got the menu :)00:09
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kalaauto-hide on the top of the screen :)00:09
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flip^can you rename the default program groups in the app menu (Web, Utilities, Tools, etc)?00:22
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penguinbait relay=smtp.comcast.net, dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred:00:53
penguinbaityou think this is comcast stopping my mail server?00:53
penguinbaitwhat the heck does deferred mean00:53
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pupnikpostponed01:01
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NeoStriderhello folks01:04
NeoStriderkeesj:  are you there?01:04
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zerojaypenguinbait: Pretty sure Comcast does not allow you to host a mail server.01:58
penguinbaithad one for 5 years02:02
penguinbaitits killing me02:02
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lopzre02:25
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* sp3000 boggles02:26
sp3000http://www.google.fi/search?q="taska+dn"+site:maemo.org&filter=002:27
sp3000bugs.maemo.org linkifies the url only up to q :(02:27
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Esworpwhat are the criteria for vudochst over google talk? i gave yet to have it work.02:46
Esworper.  vidchat02:46
* pupnik dunos02:48
pupniki still need to get voip goin on 77002:48
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pupnik52 4F 4E 20 50 41 55 4C 20 32 30 30 38 20 21 21 2102:52
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Esworpnice number sequence.   you must be left-handed02:56
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ds3wireless key? =)02:59
zerojayASCIII text.03:01
pupnik:)03:03
pupnikhttp://www.vortex.prodigynet.co.uk/misc/ascii_conv.html03:03
* pupnik giggles and scampers off03:03
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zerojaypupnik: Are you from France?03:09
pupniknon, pourqoi?03:09
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zerojayBecause of the 20 before the 21's.03:11
pupniktht's ascii space, no?03:12
zerojayYes.03:12
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zerojayIt's something most French people do.03:13
zerojayPutting a 20 before the 21s like that.03:13
zerojaySeparating them.03:13
pupniki did not know this :)03:13
Pioecho -e "\x52\x4F\x4E\x20\x50\x41\x55\x4C\x20\x32\x30\x30\x38\x20\x21\x21\x21"03:14
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pupnik "52 4F 4E 20 50 41 55 4C 20 32 30 30 38 20 21 21 21".split.map{|i| eval("0x" + i).chr}.to_s03:16
|Rhaha03:16
zerojaypupnik: It's something you learn when you do a lot of text translations... and because our game would see the space, if it was at the end of the line, it would wrap so that the 21 was at the bottom of the next line all alone.03:16
zerojaySo I spent a good amount of time adding in A0's instead of 20's for those cases.03:17
Piofor i in 52 4F 4E 20 50 41 55 4C 20 32 30 30 38 20 21 21 21 ; do echo -en "\x$i" ; done03:17
pupnikoh i like this one03:17
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lopzbye06:04
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latzkohi09:28
latzkoIn Layout mode I got this: Oct 17 08:25:21 Nokia-N800-10 DSME: error reading fd (12): Resource temporarily09:28
latzkounavailable09:28
latzkoand it hangs09:29
latzkohave you got any tips? thanks09:29
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|RFUCK!!09:58
|Ri just trashed /bin by error09:58
|Rcan't start a shell or anything anymore :(((09:59
|Rwill have to redo EVERYTHING !09:59
dpryopwnd!09:59
|R:/09:59
* |R hates himself10:00
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|Rurhm, anyone know why after reflashing the cards don't get mounted automagically?10:58
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|Rah doh, usb cable10:58
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|R*/&/*($ crap... now microb package breaks the browser and completely kills it if removed... wth!11:14
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keesjI had the same problem at one time11:23
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JaffaMorning, all11:31
keesjYo11:32
sujanGood morning11:32
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sujanHello!12:20
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AD-N770good morning12:41
flip^mornin'12:47
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Jiten_anyone else tried using gazpacho? 0.7.2 (the maemo version) seems to be somewhat unstable.13:12
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Jiten_not mention that I can't specify a toolbar for my program with it that works the way as in the tutorials at www.maemo.org13:25
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czrgday13:28
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dnearyseen qgil13:34
_Monkeyqgil was last seen on #maemo 29 days, 20 hours, 7 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying: we have completed the upload and we are doing the last testing before announcing the release [Mon Sep 17 15:26:40 2007]13:34
Big_Bgood morning(~ugt)13:34
dnearyThanks _Monkey13:34
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czrsilly question, is using cairo now "a good & sane thing", or is it still dog-slow?13:42
Big_Bi can't run "fakeroot apt-get install hildon-libsmm-dev hildon-fmmm-dev" command for maemo 2.2 target . Please anybody tell me what should i do to run it13:44
Big_BAnybody please!!!!!!!!!!!!13:45
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mbufis there a unique serial number on an N800 device?13:57
GeneralAntillesThe WLAN code.13:57
cosmoBig_B: type it in scratchbox and press enter?13:57
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Big_BI did that14:03
Big_Bbut i got this mess" fakeroot apt-get install hildon-libsmm-dev hildon-fmmm-dev14:03
Big_BReading Package Lists... Done14:03
Big_BBuilding Dependency Tree... Done14:03
Big_BE: Couldn't find package hildon-libsmm-dev14:03
Big_B"14:03
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lardmankulve: ssvb sent me an mp3 dsp task he found, might be of interest to you, and I could do with some help debugging it14:28
lardmankulve: meeting now, will give you an url when I get back ~30min14:28
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GeneralAntilleshttp://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n81015:06
lardmankulve: cool :)15:06
lardmanoops wrong person15:06
lardmanjust a general cool :)15:06
lardmanGeneralAntilles: Good find15:07
lardmankulve: mp3 code here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/mp3/15:07
lardmankulve: I've made some changes so it compiles, correctly, will add them to the dir when I head home for lunch in a few15:08
keesjit's for real15:09
GeneralAntillesnachin007 on itt spotted it15:09
GeneralAntilleserm, sachin15:09
GeneralAntillesFigured it might interest this group. ;)15:09
GeneralAntillesNot sure why they put the d-pad on the slider, though.15:10
TPCthats just my luck...15:10
GeneralAntillesIf it's not a real spec-bump over the N800 I'm going to wait.15:10
lardmana slider - rejoice!15:10
TPConly weeks after I get a N800 the N810 is announced15:11
TPC:(15:11
GeneralAntillesWhat did you pay for the N800?15:11
czrit's announced already?15:11
GeneralAntillesThe pics are up15:11
GeneralAntillesno announcement as yet15:11
TPCwell, its going to be announced15:11
GeneralAntilleshttp://tabletblog.com/15:11
GeneralAntillesThat's the place to watch.15:11
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GeneralAntillesHere's to hoping for a 3000-series OMAP and OpenGL drivers, though!15:13
czrah, I'm just waiting for the official stuff.15:13
czrand a picture better than the fcc stuff :-)15:13
* GeneralAntilles points up. >_>15:13
czrtabletblog = official?15:13
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GeneralAntilleshttp://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n81015:14
czrah, sry, missed that :-)15:14
GeneralAntillesFullsize USB15:14
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GeneralAntillesLooks like a 3-position stand, too.15:15
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I think it'll still be a 24xx series, with higher clock speed. Hopefully the PowerVR mbx will be working though...15:15
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GeneralAntillesI'm probably not buying if it's 24xx15:15
GeneralAntillesHow high can they push it, really?15:16
GeneralAntillesI want my ~600Mhz CPU. ;)15:16
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czrGeneralAntilles, I have couple of 550 Celerons spare.15:16
czrthe question is, how much do you want your 600MHz! :-)15:17
GeneralAntillesWill they run on that battery for 3+ hours? :P15:17
czrof course15:17
czrgiven large enough battery15:17
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GeneralAntillesBy "that", I mean BP-5L.15:18
GeneralAntillesSo, anybody more informed about the USB spec than myself wanna confirm if A-port means host-mode?15:18
czrA-port I think is the connector type15:18
czrso basically just a full size connector.15:18
GeneralAntillesActually, no.15:18
czroh15:18
GeneralAntillesThat's not a full-size connector on there.15:19
GeneralAntillesScales are a bit off. :D15:19
czrlooks like it, at least on http://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/n810_15_low.jpg15:19
GeneralAntillesIt does, but compare it to the one on the N80015:20
czrhmm. let me get it15:20
czryou're right15:20
czrit's the same as on N800 methinks15:20
czrmeh. difficult to say from that angle.15:21
GeneralAntillesYeah15:21
GeneralAntillesIt's deceiving15:21
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czrhmm. a question relating to sw packaging in maemo. where should I install my files in bora?15:23
czrtalking about regular application binaries, data files, etc15:23
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czrin 770 it was under /var/install-blah, but I guess that's wrong nowadays, so any hints/ideas?15:23
cosmoczr: have you read maemo packaging howtos?15:25
czrcosmo, yes15:25
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czrthey don't mention anything about file paths15:25
lardmansame as standard Linux15:25
lardmani.e. /usr/bin15:25
czrlardman, /usr/bin etc?15:25
czrgreat.15:25
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* czr hugs lardman15:25
cosmo469€ price for 810 in finland (was in verkkokauppa.com)15:25
czrin a purely platonic manner of course15:25
lardman /usr/local/ is probably the place one should install things, but it's not in the path afaik15:25
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cosmobut where is the stylus?15:26
_Monkeyit has been said that the stylus is madness15:26
lardmanso use /usr/bin  etc15:26
czrlardman, /usr/local/ is for modifications done by the local administration which fall outside package management (in FHS)15:26
czrlardman, so in this case /usr/bin would be more correct imho (when speaking about packaged software)15:26
lardmanczr: is it? I thought it was for packages added ontop of the standard ones15:27
czrlardman, well, not sure whether maemo is FHS compliant or not15:27
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lardmanczr: or do you mean stuff compiled and installed is added there?15:27
czrlardman, latter15:27
lardmans/is/should be15:27
czranyhow, outside package management15:28
czrso manually building from source and make install- kind of stuff.15:28
pupnikU4i hope that dpad has gliding motion not clicking presses15:30
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pupnikU4it should be possible to hold device with first and second fingers while using dpad and keys with thumb15:31
solmumahai hope they stop releasing this often15:32
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GeneralAntillesHow are frequent releases bad?15:34
pupnikU4we've been saying that similar device with different form factors would help sales15:34
GeneralAntillesThe N800 isn't going to suddenly become useless.15:35
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GeneralAntillesNokia isn't going to flip a switch and turn it off.15:35
revthe n810 sure looks tasty!15:35
GeneralAntillesApp development has continued just fine for the 770, even with the N800 on the market.15:35
GeneralAntillesThey've already stated that the N800 is good for at least two more OS updates.15:35
pupnikU4so now ppl have the choice between an 800 w/o kbd and an 810 with kbd.  good news!15:36
GeneralAntillesHopefully we get the specs soon.15:36
revGeneralAntilles: has the api changed enough that that would matter? i always saw the 770 2005/OS2006/N800 binary thing as being a matter of abi or something15:36
solmumahaGeneralAntilles: they are bad, money wise ;)15:37
revwhich is to say, in the few external apps i've moved up for myself, i never had to do anything more than recompile, it seems, and notthing with my own app15:37
* GeneralAntilles is a poor nooblette with very little coding experience.15:37
revahh ok15:37
rev:)15:37
GeneralAntillesI just like to talk out my ass a lot. ;)15:37
revdon't we all?15:37
sciboyNooblette, gosh that's cute.15:37
revheh15:38
pupnikU4rev you know that 2005-2006 switched from arm to armel, 2006 and 2007 are binary compatible tho15:38
* sciboy adds it to his vocabulary15:38
sciboyDoes any of the browsers, (opera, microb, minimo) have the option to call a url from the command-line and possibly jump directly to fullscreen mode?15:39
revpupnikU4: but are there any other substantial differences? dev-wise? other than not using the camera, say.15:40
revsciboy: i think there's a way to do it via dbus, but i can't recall15:40
revsciboy: not sure about the full-screen part, though15:40
sciboyrev, Well thing is I'm making a game for the n800 using javascript etc. all the toolbar options etc. are completely unnecessary and want to design for that extra screen real estate.15:41
revi need to upgrade/flash my N800. i tried installing microb a while back, hosed the browser, and for the last 6 weeks or so haven't been using it nearly as much, because of the non-functioning web browser. uff.15:42
pupnikU4yes some things have been changed between 2006 and 2007 but for the most part, 2006 apps seem to run on 200715:42
sciboyI still have to wait for my n800 to arrive, or even news of when it may arrive. =/15:42
revsciboy: yeah, fair enough. have you tried making a popup to ditch most of that stuff?15:43
revsciboy: or, you could just write a shell containing the HTML widget from opera, microb, etc, that'd probably be easier15:43
sciboyrev, I recall some javascript to push for fullscreen in IE, not sure about Mozilla or Opera.15:43
TPCsciboy, can't you just make a simple gecko frontend that behaves like you want it?15:43
revsciboy: i don't think there'll be a javascript means to push opera fullscreen, but possibly15:43
revyeah, do what TPC sez15:44
sciboyTPC, I wouldn't have the slightest idea.15:44
revthe answer is yes15:45
revand it's what you'd want to do15:45
rev:D15:45
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sciboyBut how is my question? I'm an animator not a developer, (main reason why I've opting for javascript instead of pygame etc. more graphical)15:46
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blkhawk[work]lo15:46
TPCsciboy, maybe you should recruit a developer for your project then15:47
revhow is your question? i'm not sure if they're an answer15:47
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revsciboy: i think that, time total spent, you could make something happen with a simpler browser shell faster than trying to go down the path you are15:47
revwow, that was poorly woorded, eh?15:48
revsciboy: that is, doing it the way TPC and I are talking about could be done even by someone without much coding experience, with a few pointers from folks like us in the channel, or perhaps an actual dev helper15:48
sciboyYou think that was bad, I spent a minute puzzling over "But how is my question" speak like yoda you must.15:48
blkhawk[work]is that a USB post i spy on the side of the N810?15:48
revespecially considering that such a beast would probably be useful to other folks developing similar apps15:48
revsciboy: haha :D15:48
revblkhawk[work]: i hope so!15:49
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revare there more photos of the 810 anywhere? i've only seen one front-wise photo at engadget15:49
GeneralAntillesI think that's all of them for the moment.15:49
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rever, nevermind, they have a bunch of photos up now15:49
revhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokias-n810-makes-first-appearance-drops-jaws/15:50
blkhawk[work]:D15:50
revor less annoying http://www.internettablettalk.com/2007/10/17/the-nokia-n810-internet-tablet/15:50
blkhawk[work]well it probably will only power a usb flash stick but its cool nonntheless15:50
sciboyrev, I guess so, first though I need to know what resolution I'll be working with, all the content has to be actual-size in order to help performance, so what part of 800x480 is actually usable by the application?15:50
GeneralAntillesI don't think that's a USB A port.15:50
GeneralAntillesThe scale is wrong15:50
revi don't think that's a USB port, not one capable of histing15:51
GeneralAntillesCompare it to the port on the N800.15:51
revi think it's the same little guy on the N80015:51
GeneralAntillesI thought it was A when I first looked at it, too.15:51
revsciboy: well, if you actually had it full screen it'd be a full 800x48015:51
revsciboy: though you might want to have some sort of toolbar, giving you the ability to quit15:51
pupnikU4engadget must be lurking here15:51
sciboyrev, Can the user still switch between apps if one is fullscreen?15:52
revsciboy: yeah, but not as easily (e.g. there's no bar w/ icons)15:52
TPC[14:50:32] <blkhawk[work]> well it probably will only power a usb flash stick but its cool nonntheless15:52
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n81015:52
GeneralAntillesIf anybody missed it.15:52
TPCwould be cool if it could power a usb 3G modem15:52
GeneralAntillesIt's not an A port15:53
GeneralAntillesSo I don't think it's going to be powering much of anything.15:53
sciboyrev, If I can use the whole screen that'd be pretty desirable since that means I have more control over the experience. But users must have the freedom to pause, quit and switch applications.15:53
TPCthey can just push the fullscreen button and get out of fullscreen mode15:54
pupnikU4'All your sdl keyboard problems magically wiped away... along with most of your personality.'15:54
sciboyrev, That reminds me, when they hit the power button, it still remains on right? Unless they go out of their way to fully power it down?15:54
TPCthe power button brings up a menu15:55
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pupnikU4dumb comment of the year goes to bunzl200015:57
sciboyHmmm, okay well it's good to know that full 800x480 is an option. Everything else, I need to wait on my N800 to actually arrive. =|15:57
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sciboyThanks15:59
lardmanI wonder what that button on the bottom is?15:59
GeneralAntillesbunzl2000, pupnikU4?15:59
lardmani.e. in the n810_15.jpg image15:59
GeneralAntillesYeah, I was wondering that, too, lardman.15:59
GeneralAntillesCould be a release for the back panel.16:00
lardmankeyboard lock perhaps16:00
GeneralAntillesOr maybe that.16:00
GeneralAntillesActually, no, it can't be for the back panel.16:00
lardmanlikewise the little square above the front camera16:00
lardmanmicrophone perhaps16:00
GeneralAntillesThat's staying pretty much the same as tho N800 according to the engandget prototype photos.16:00
GeneralAntillesLooks like an LED to me.16:00
lardmanall we need now are some technical specs16:01
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ttuttleHey.16:01
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GeneralAntillesYeah, lardman.16:02
* GeneralAntilles crosses fingers for OMAP 34xx16:02
lardman:)16:02
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GeneralAntillesHopefully we get our hands on a copy of Chinook for the N800 soon.16:02
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GeneralAntilleslardman: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=83050&postcount=4816:06
GeneralAntillesMakes sense16:06
GeneralAntillesI remember it being mentioned in the Chinook changes.16:06
sciboyChinook?16:06
GeneralAntillesOS200816:07
GeneralAntillesMaemo 4.016:07
czrlardman, it's the panic switch16:07
czrswitching it will cause the device to explode within 20 seconds.16:07
lardmanGeneralAntilles: cool16:07
sciboyCool, is that due out in the near future?16:07
GeneralAntillesDunno16:07
GeneralAntillesIt'll be on the N810 whenever it comes out16:07
GeneralAntillesDon't know how soon the N800 version will be out.16:08
Jaffahttp://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/n810_01_low.jpg has nice new status bar icons16:09
sciboyWhy wouldn't it be out at a similar time? Considering how similar the hardware is.16:09
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sciboyWow that thing looks smexy.16:09
GeneralAntillesIt probably will be, but not sure when16:09
JaffaKeyboard looks a little cramped for desktop typing (compared with a Psion, of course)16:10
GeneralAntillesIt is a mobile device. ;)16:11
pupnikU4wait for the magical tardis keyboard tech that shrinks your hands when they get near the device16:11
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czrpupnikU4, does it come with untardising as well?16:12
JaffaGeneralAntilles: so was the revo, it still had a decent-enough keyboard, and as for the Series 5...16:12
keesjthe 5 finger keyboard?16:12
bergieJaffa: yeah... I'd love a bit better keyboard but other than that it looks quite nice16:12
pupnikU4Clamshell designs aren't 'in' now.  Too bad for us techies16:12
GeneralAntillesHa, if I wanted a laptop, I'd buy a laptop. :P16:12
pupnikU4a psion 5mx wasn't a laptop16:13
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pupnikU4the reason clamshells aren't built is cause they're not 'sexy'16:13
JaffaI like the industrial design of the N810 - looks smooth. Better than the horrible grill on the N800 IMHO16:14
pupnikU4i think it looks beautiful16:14
pupnikU4compare to asian products...16:14
GeneralAntillesCan I use that Psion with the keyboard out of the way?16:14
GeneralAntillesThe 770 looks great, the N800 looks great, and the N810 looks great.16:15
GeneralAntillesMaybe I'm just hard to please.16:15
keesjit does not look like it contains a gprs modem16:15
GeneralAntillesGood16:15
GeneralAntillesThat's what a cellphone is for.16:15
lardmanhow can you tell?16:15
lardmanor have you seen the schematics....? :)16:15
keesjno dialing in the pics16:15
GeneralAntillesHa.16:15
lardmanWell I hope it doesn't come with maps of Washington, not much use to me16:15
GeneralAntillesNokia would have to do a lot of work to keep the network safe from those dangerous Linux hackers.16:16
keesjhah16:16
GeneralAntillesI, for one, hope the IT series products never come with cellular radios.16:16
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czrI for one hope they'd invent a better name than IT16:16
Jaffawho16:16
Jaffa#6/16:16
Jaffabah16:16
czrwhoever decides the names :-)16:16
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GeneralAntillesWeberator16:17
GeneralAntillesthat's my pick.16:17
pupnikU4haha16:17
pcfeif you look at the likes of openmoko you will learn that devices that do come with a phone part are just a black box on usb you can not hack16:17
pcfeyou just tell the black box you want to dial and it feeds you back audio16:17
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pcfenot that I think the ITs should have a phone bit, but they could very well have one and still be cool with all the regulatory bodies16:18
pupnikU4the faceplate is a nice texture/color too - gives an iconic look16:19
JaffaYeah - anything better than the sieve-like chrome of the N800.16:20
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* GeneralAntilles wants specs. >_>16:21
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JaffaIf it were smaller and lighter than the N800, and there was signs of movement towards a fantastically usable UI and powerful built-in apps, I'd seriously consider it.16:24
lardmanThey keyboard is enough for me16:24
JaffaSave gadget bag room by losing the BT keyboard :)16:25
GeneralAntillesSpecs, specs, specs.16:25
Jaffalardman: it would be for me, if I did more data input. I dunno if I don't do much data input because of the lack of the keyboard, or the lack of the software.16:25
lardmanJaffa: I'd be more tempted to try Python on the go with a keyboard16:26
lardmanJaffa: Would make it more useful for spreadsheets too16:26
Jaffaagreed16:27
ttuttleThe N800 is ugly.16:27
GeneralAntilles^ lies.16:27
JaffaITT still working for everyone? Or has it been /.ed?16:28
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disqno jogdial. bastards.16:28
GeneralAntillesIt's getting pounded.16:28
disqyep16:28
lardmanhow do I work out the framebuffer size programmatically?16:28
GeneralAntillesengadget, slashdot and digg.16:28
* lardman goes off topic here16:28
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ttuttleThe N800 is ugly. (Sorry if this is a dupe, I was lagged.)16:29
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GeneralAntilles^ repeated lies. :P16:30
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GeneralAntillesalso: *YOU think the N800 is ugly. :P16:30
GeneralAntillesI, personally, think it looks quite nice.16:30
keesjlardman: for a standard framebuffer there are ioctl call16:31
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lardmankeesj: I found some code, thanks16:32
JaffaOuch. ITT is 404ing now.16:33
disqme want developer device program. i doubt they'll do it again for the n810 tho since n800 will also run chinook16:33
GeneralAntillesMan, itt went down fast.16:34
Tak|770how do I see a process's memory usage on the device?16:36
Jaffadisq: agreed :)16:36
disqossostatusbarcpu or you could run top and hit shift-m (for a "M") to sort by memory usage16:37
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HGFBAccording to the Jaiku blog it's getting hammered by big tech sites http://jaiku.com/channel/itT16:37
Tak|770aha, /shift/ m!16:37
Tak|770heh, osso-xterm doesn't even register16:39
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JaffaHmm, never seen Jaiku before. It seems to be an IRC/Facebook status/Twitter/shoutbox/chatroom thing.16:40
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lardmanhmm, looking at the dsp framebuffer demo code, neither the dsp nor the arm seem to signal anyone to actually write the data to the screen16:42
lardmanI'd have expected some sort of ioctl16:42
Tak|770so xchat uses about 8m, and irssi uses about 4m, not counting the mem for osso-xterm, which I couldn't get16:44
keesjno mem map memset stuff?16:45
lardmanon the arm side an fbinfo struct is create and passed to the dsp side16:46
lardmanbut it's just a struct, no attempts to do anything with it16:46
lardmanunless this all happens in the background on the dsp16:46
lardmanno idea how it's supposed to be triggered though16:46
* lardman continues reading16:47
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lardmanhttp://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/framebuffer_test/existing/ take a look at tell me if I'm missing something obvious16:53
czranyone using the vmware images for development?16:54
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czrTak|770, what are you using to measure memory usage?17:01
Tak|770just top17:01
pupnikU4lardman: what is native framebuffer format?  rgb565?17:01
czrwhich field?17:01
Tak|770looking at the mem field and the res field17:02
czrTak|770, http://koltsoff.com/pub/ures , just FYI. measuring memory usage is not very simple always17:02
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czrand the kernel on the device doesn't have smaps AFAIK so that's as good as it's going to get. also xrestop should be used (not 100% sure about the tool name now though)17:03
lardmanpupnikU4: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libvo/vo_nokia770.c?root=mplayer&view=markup17:03
pupnikU4ty17:03
pupnikU4Nokia 770 LCD controller [1] natively supports RGB565 and two packed YUV formats17:04
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pupnikU4so the packed yuv format means less bandwidth needed for screen updates? (assuming the stuff to be drawn is in that fmt)?17:04
lardmanI suppose so, if you read on a little that's also the general codec output format17:05
pupnikU4i guess the main use is for video17:05
pupnikU4so you don't need to do yuv-rgb17:05
pupnikU4hmm17:05
lardmanyeah, though the format is not quite the same - needs conversion17:05
Tak|770czr: 1) yes, I'm aware of this; I just wanted a quick measure  2) the device doesn't have very sophisticated memory metric tools on board17:06
czrTak|770, indeed. good :-)17:06
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* lardman realises he's a muppet - need to use dspctl with the framebuffer code17:08
* pupnikU4 plays the muppet theme song17:09
* czr plays the swedish cook part17:09
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penguinbaithttp://www.internettablettalk.com/ just pooped17:10
penguinbaitdidnt last long17:10
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GeneralAntillesIt's been in and out since 9:3017:11
disqyep17:11
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GeneralAntilles(EDT)17:11
penguinbaitI have been good until just now17:11
penguinbaitoh, yup its back17:11
penguinbaithehe17:11
* Tak|770 dibs on Beeker17:11
penguinbaitis there an sale date yet17:12
penguinbaitor cpu/mem specs anywhere17:12
GeneralAntillesNope, nor specs.17:12
penguinbaitdoh17:12
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penguinbaitoh well, back to KDE.  I can't wait to see how it runs on new hardware17:13
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pupnikU4looking to bump the digg story - not finding it17:14
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lardmanpupnikU4: Although that sorts out mapping the framebuffer, i still can't see where it's updated17:14
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pupnikU4do you mean the n770_x11_init()?  that's just to prevent X from drawing afaik17:15
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GeneralAntillespupnikU4: search for N81017:16
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lardmanpupnikU4: no, in the dsp code - url earlier17:16
pupnikU4oh17:16
penguinbaithttp://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810#17:16
penguinbaitlots of nice pics17:16
penguinbaitnot sure I like the camera staring at me all the time17:17
penguinbaitfeels like nokia is watching me17:17
czrwould it help to know that nokia is watching you already?17:17
penguinbaitjust a little parnoid maybe17:17
penguinbaithehe17:17
GeneralAntillesHa, Nokia is going to hax ur interwebz and post pictures of your ugly mug all over the world. :P17:17
ttuttlelol17:17
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penguinbaitI'm not that ugly17:18
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penguinbaithehe17:18
GeneralAntilles:P17:18
lopzhola17:18
penguinbaitbesides they cant see crap on that n800 camera17:19
czrpenguinbait, that's why they have the other cameras17:19
penguinbaitin one of the little holes pretending to be a speaker perhaps17:19
penguinbaitor behind the touchscreen?17:19
czrerr, in your cupboards, your TV and windows17:20
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GeneralAntillesshowerhead, too.17:20
czrGeneralAntilles, sshh.17:20
penguinbaitno, thats the government17:20
czrpenguinbait, who says that Nokia isn't one?17:20
penguinbaitAlthough I have personal experience with nokia repair, and that may be governmant run17:21
penguinbaitit would explain alot17:21
* czr nods17:21
czrI could tell more, but I'd have to.. file two requests for acquisitions, file three reports, ask my supervisors, etc..17:21
penguinbaitno prob, dont go out of your way17:22
penguinbaitI am sure I am a security rick17:22
penguinbaitI am sure I am a security risk17:22
czrheh. not to worry :-)17:22
GeneralAntillesSecurity Rick!17:22
* GeneralAntilles plays the action music.17:22
czras long as you're entertaining, no one will mind :-)17:22
penguinbaityou know Security Rick, he worked at my lask job17:23
penguinbaitmight have been with a D though?17:23
czrI thought that was Security Bob17:23
penguinbaits/R/D17:23
czrthe one who is married to Security Alice.17:24
czrhmm. anyone running Xephyr over ssh?17:25
czrso that the stuff in the SDK will connect to a xephyr on another host? (doesn't have to be ssh though)17:25
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pupnikU4speakers are on the sides17:28
pupnikU4does anyone recognize the dpad from another product?  i want to know if it's a high-resistance click-type (like the 770/N800) or a low-resistance non-click dpad17:29
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GeneralAntillesAnybody have a guess when the specs might be announced?17:31
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disqmilhouse: really great comments on itt. about the graduate intern and all17:33
pupnikU4Oct 23 will be some kind of announcement i think17:34
|Rok what the FUCK.... can someone explain this: i fucked up my latest OS 2007 install by doing rm -rf bin in the wrong folder.... i reflashed, then microB when installed was screwed up on tableteer's page which it wasnt before... then i reflashed again because removing microB killed the whole browser... and now i see preferences from the original INSTALLATION!17:35
* |R really has a bad day :|17:35
GeneralAntillesI hope we don't get left with pics without specs for the next 6 days.17:35
pcfeyou restored backup it would seem17:35
abhttp://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n81017:36
pupnikU4i am guessing lardman's guess is right :)17:36
|Rpcfe : uhm yes but that didn't do it the first flashing, but you're right, weird!17:36
|Ri get very inconsistent results... maybe i should sleep ;)17:36
Jaffadisq: soon milhouse'll get a texratting for being too negative. Interesting that ragnar said it's as thick as the non-bumpy bit of the N800. That'd be very impressive.17:36
pcfeyes, if the results are inconsistent you should close all root shells, open a beer and relax17:36
|Rhehe :)17:36
|Ri had everything fixed and screwed up big time, argh... :/17:37
Daniellionhttp://synergy2.sourceforge.net/about.html17:37
Daniellionwonder if that would work on the tablets too17:37
Daniellion:)17:37
GeneralAntillesIt does17:37
Daniellionbe on your desktop then use your mouse over to the 770 80017:37
GeneralAntillesbut it's a pain to get the pointer turned on and visible.17:37
|Rthere is a quicksynergy package17:37
DaniellionAhh17:37
Daniellionim still haveing issues getting it to autostart iin osx17:37
Daniellionsigh they should just make a pkg17:37
GeneralAntillesTeleport is better for OSX to OSX17:38
pupnikU4synergy?17:38
_Monkeysynergy is mouse and keyboard sharing between computer and tablet:  https://garage.maemo.org/projects/synergy2/   https://garage.maemo.org/projects/unique311/   and for 770  http://pupnik.de/synergy-maemo_1.3.1-1_armel.deb17:38
Daniellionvery sweet17:38
Veggenwho is running Monkey, btw?17:39
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Veggenit's sort of annoying at times. It'd be much better if you had to ask it explicitly, not?17:39
pupnikU4looking at n810 it appears a bit smaller than 770, and maybe 1.4 times as thick17:39
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zorankeyboard should make it ticker17:40
pupnikU4about 90% of its responses are not useful17:40
Daniellionhmmm your refering to the leaked screenshot?17:41
pupnikU4shots17:41
zoransmall keys could me worse than on the screen board17:42
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pupnikU4it appears to have the on screen keyboard also!17:42
zoranmy fingers are ticker then pen pick17:43
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zoranwimax?17:44
GeneralAntillesLets hope not.17:44
zorannokia has to sell; they need new device17:45
Sho_Anyone know yet if the N810 has a faster CPU than the N800?17:46
penguinbaitgod I hope so17:46
zoranand a battery capable to handle that17:46
TPCI really hope it doesn't17:46
penguinbaityou hope its not faster17:47
penguinbaithuh17:47
TPCif it doesn't then I can be happy with my N800 and a bluetooth keyboard17:47
zoranme too17:47
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penguinbaityou can be happy regardless17:47
penguinbaitthtas silly17:47
TPCits better for my wallet that way17:47
TPCbecause otherwise I'll have to get it :P17:47
disqi don't think they upgraded the cpu17:47
ch4os_what types of audio streams i can listen on standard maemo audio player?17:47
penguinbaityou can always skip a tablet, a new one will be out in a year ;)17:47
Sho_Well, actually I hope it doesn't have a faster CPU too ... I have an N800, and while I can do without the keyboard, I'd be jealous of a faster CPU =)17:47
disqchinook will run faster on the n800 anyway17:48
disqfaster than bora i mean17:48
GeneralAntillesI really hope we get an OMAP 34xx in there.17:48
zorangraphical apps surely17:48
TPCdisq, oh?17:48
penguinbaitI want KDE to run faster, who cares about chinook17:48
disqthey're constantly optimizing the code17:48
pcfedisq: aha? any more details on that?17:48
zorankde is bloated17:49
penguinbaitso I am, but I work well17:49
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zoran:)17:49
TPCkde isn't that bad17:49
disqno details. if you try/run sardine, you see the difference. that's all17:49
TPCif you don't install every little tool there is17:49
penguinbaitI love fish in KDE17:49
TPCand disable graphical effects and things like that17:49
penguinbaitkonqueor is awesome17:49
TPCit can run at a reasonable speed on a slow machine17:50
TPCmy sister used it as her desktop environment on a P233 this spring17:50
TPCran nicely17:50
zoranjust wondow manager works wven faster17:50
zoran*window17:50
TPCof course 1.5 years ago kde was horrible, had so many memory leaks17:50
TPCbut they have fixed those now, went trought all of it with valgrind17:50
* Sho_ notes that the KDE project originally hosted the Valgrind project17:50
penguinbaitI can print from the browser, I can print pdf, picture, docs17:51
penguinbaitI have a real computer17:51
zoranthis new gadget is not targeting fols on this list, I think17:51
TPCpenguinbait, print to pdf isn't really among kde's high points17:51
penguinbaitits faster that my toshiba libretto 166mmx17:51
TPCthe resulting file looks uglier and is larger file size than it is by creating the pdf with other methods17:51
penguinbaitprint pdf to printer17:51
penguinbaitprinting period17:52
pupnikU4heh17:52
TPCI mean even dumping a screenshot of the document to a tiff file and using tiff2pdf produces better result than kdes print to pdf17:52
pupnikU4printing = can o' worms, but it'd be nice17:52
penguinbaitit already is nice17:53
pupnikU4btw how is printing on the iphone?17:53
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pcfeboth my PalmOS device and my S60r3 phone can print. Apart form 2 or 3 printouts on each device to see it works and show someone it works, I have never needed this18:00
pcfethen again I have a deep aversion against putting stuff on dead trees.18:01
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zoranused camera on n800?18:01
pcfesearching on dead trees is just too much of a pita18:01
pcfesame, once to see it works when I got it and twicce when testing video calling with another N800 user18:02
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zoranI found one post that was excited about gps on n81018:03
Veggenpcfe: If I'm gonna do a lot of reading, I prefer dead trees.18:04
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pcfezoran: Oh GPS I use a lot, just an external one ATM18:06
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pcfeif N810 indeed has GPS, the big question will be what chipset they used, crappy one like in N95 or decent onle like Sirf III or better18:06
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pcfeVeggen: yes, I understand some people want to have dead trees. Fair enough. I used to print for the convenience of carriying the reading material to places my computer would not go, but with N800 and a 12" notebook I've stopped doing that18:08
zoranmaybe people like thing more modular, not all in one?18:08
pcfezoran: look at N95, seems most non-geek users want as many features as possible into one device. That thing sells like hot cupcakes18:08
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pcfeand Nokia will quite obviously giove the market what it wants, they need to make revenue18:09
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TPCpcfe, or better? whats better than Sirf III?18:11
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GeneralAntillesThe MTK chipset in the i-blues18:12
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TPCinteresting18:14
pupnikafkyet another way 770/ n800 saves the environment18:15
lardmando you think those photos were released by accident?18:16
lardmanOr are Nokia just trying to build us into a frenzy by not producing a press release with technical details, etc.?18:16
pcfeTPC: not sure, last time I looked deeply into GPS chipsets was about a year ago when I got my GPSlim 236 have not looked deeply since, so the 'or better' was just in case something better came out in th elast year18:17
alteregoProbably no developer program for this device ..18:17
alteregoffs, osso has broken :(18:17
lardmanalterego: what makes you say that?18:17
alteregoI can't seem to get my bindings working.18:17
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pcfelardman: well, is Nokia some small shop that does a product release for the first time, or a big multinational that dominates a big part of the market? ;-)18:18
zoranto me it looks that apple made them run faster18:19
pupnikafkthe keyboard will make it a much better general purpose linux machine18:20
zoranif you could find the keys18:20
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pupnikafksee blackberrys and zaurus for similar sized keys18:22
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* alterego hits head.18:22
alteregoForgot run-standalone.sh :)18:23
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zoranpupnikafk, I just try to find reason not to spend the money and buy18:24
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snowmoonhttp://internettablettalk.wordpress.com/18:31
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Jaffasnowmoon: heh18:36
snowmoonc'mon... where are the specs?18:37
JaffaRelease date & price, too.18:37
JaffaRelease date especially important for IT OS 2008 for our N800s18:37
VeggenI'm looking forward to IT OS 2008..(or whatever it is, I hope it comes before christmas ;)18:38
zoranjust if specs are close enough18:39
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lardmanif one writes to the framebuffer, are the updates propogated eventually (i.e. is there some timeout) if you don;t explicitly use the ioctl to update it>]18:41
lardmans/>]/?/18:41
infobotlardman meant: if one writes to the framebuffer, are the updates propogated eventually (i.e. is there some timeout) if you don;t explicitly use the ioctl to update it?18:41
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nad_Is it possible to boot an N800 an not start X11?19:02
zoranif you have ssh19:03
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zorannad_ interesting option would be to start x (for keyboadr) and small manager like evilwm19:06
nad_zoran: I just want to run some tests on the framebuffer, I don't want X around...19:06
zoranah, yes; you must to have hands on it; ssh19:07
Takheh - will there be an OS2008HE for the 770?19:08
HGFBThe specs are here19:08
HGFBhttp://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html19:08
HGFBSomeone just posted them on Tabletblog19:09
GeneralAntillesUgh19:09
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GeneralAntillesNot much of an upgrade.19:09
nad_zoran: sorry I don't understand what you mean by " you must to have hands on it"19:09
zoranTak, lemme chack on my box19:09
zoransorry, nad_19:09
Takmoo?19:09
snowmoonthat can't be right... 2gb SD support?19:10
Takhmm, specs for the N810 aren't much better than N80019:10
snowmoonnm19:10
Takalthough hopefully they fixed some of the cockups with, e.g., video bandwidth19:11
GeneralAntillesYeah, no buy for me.19:11
snowmoonIt's the 800 with GPS and thumboard19:11
GeneralAntillesI want me OMAP 34xx19:11
zorannad_, looks like you could rename some links in /etc/rc2.d not to have x up19:11
alteregoYes19:11
GeneralAntillesWell, at least we'll get Chinook soon enough.19:11
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alteregoIt says 2008, so I guess it wont be till after christmas.19:11
GeneralAntilles"Operating system updates available over the Internet"19:11
Jiten_well, the only thing I like about the new one is GPS ... that was what I was left wanting when I bought my n800 a couple weeks ago.19:11
zorannad_, after that, be sure to have ssh connection to the box19:12
alteregoThey've dumped Opera ..19:12
Jiten_though, the keyboard might be useful. Depends a bit on what it's like to use.19:12
Daniellionlike the specs.. and internal gps rocks19:13
snowmoonIt's thinner than the 800 but longer and wider ( WTF? )19:13
nad_zorane: hmm, right now I ssh over wireless, but it looks like the wireless is started from within X... Do I need a serial console, or there is some other way?19:13
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zorannad_, do you have wi-fi net at home?19:14
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alteregonad_, you can use iwconfig et all.19:14
HGFBIt'd be a shame if we couldn't get them for months19:14
snowmoonlame upgrade... I suppose that's why it's the 810 and not the 90019:14
alteregoWell, they wouldn't call it OS2008 if they were releasing it in 2007 would they :P19:14
snowmoonMy only hope is that it will push down the price on the n800 further19:15
nad_zoran: I do19:15
HGFBIf we can't buy it until next year that's actually frustrating. I'd rather they'd have held back until they were ready to ship. Didn't they announce the N800 the day they went on sale?19:15
Takalterego: I hope that means significant improvement in the gecko backends19:16
alteregoAs much as I'd love the new device. I think I'll just wait for the N900 or my N800 to break19:16
Daniellionsee i kinda want somthing that is inbetween the 800 and a laptop19:16
Daniellionnone of the umpc's ahve both camera and keyboad it seems19:16
Daniellioni cant find one that is a good combo of both for less then 150019:16
HGFBI notice they say the browser is Mozilla based19:16
alteregoTak, indeed.19:16
HGFBOpera dropped?19:16
GeneralAntillesh.264 is on the supported video formats list19:16
Veggenalterego: I don't think N810 is different enough for me either. As long as it's similar enough that the OS stays compatible.19:16
HGFBIs an N800 fast enough for h.264 in the default player?19:16
snowmoonengadget is reporting more ram... shipping in nov for $47919:17
HGFBWith the video bottleneck19:17
lardmandid I miss something?19:17
nad_alterego: where is iwconfig, I can't seem to find it..19:17
alteregonad_, you have to install it.19:17
alteregowireless-tools or whatever the package is called.19:17
zorannad_, openssh installed?19:17
nad_zoran: yep19:17
Takoh, yeah - is everybody else seeing the unupgradable openssh upgrade packages?19:17
alteregoYeah, it says "maximum of 2Gb internal memory" ..19:17
GeneralAntillesIt'll run 16GB SDHC19:18
Daniellionnow if they put kde on it from the get go19:18
GeneralAntillesGuaranteed.19:18
zorannad_, if you could connect from desktop, you are up19:18
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alteregoKDE sucks donkey dicks.19:18
alteregoWant KDE? Get a Zaurus ..19:19
Daniellionhell id want osx on it19:19
Daniellionehhe19:19
GeneralAntilleshttp://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/1677724619:19
alteregoYou're a sad boy.19:19
GeneralAntillesLooks like an extra button on top.19:19
Daniellionwas thinkign if i coud hack a umpc with the osx8619:19
GeneralAntillesLooks like the stylus is up above the right speaker19:19
Danielliondrivers would prolly be hell though19:19
GeneralAntillesSamsung is what you want for that.19:20
nad_zoran: I can, but I was worried that if X is not up, the wireless will not start... I just installed wireless-tools. I'll try to see if I can make it work with iwconfig...19:20
lardmanwhere are these hw specs coming from?19:20
GeneralAntillesEvidently it works ok.19:20
Daniellioncould be a desk lock latch19:20
* Tak agree with alterego and make alterego his official spokesperson19:20
GeneralAntillesNokia.19:20
_Monkeysomebody said nokia was a company. It also sponsors maemo using sales of N800s. Buy one. Buy two!19:20
[31d1]hmm, iphone SDK19:20
zorannad_, on my 770 ssh starts from separate soft link in rc2.d19:20
GeneralAntillesLook at the domain, lardman.19:20
GeneralAntilleshttp://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/1677723619:21
Daniellionplease elaborate GeneralAntilles19:21
GeneralAntillesOn the Samsung?19:21
alterego[31d1], you mean Safari?19:21
||cwn800 has 128MB ram right?19:21
SDPalterego: I noticed that too... mozilla based browser.  interesting.19:21
GeneralAntillesRetail package that looks ready to go19:21
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GeneralAntillesMight be released sooner than you think.19:22
snowmoonhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/19:22
[31d1]http://www.apple.com/hotnews/19:22
GeneralAntillesI'm really disappointed by the lack of a specs upgrade, though. :(19:22
alteregoSDP, not very interesting to me until they start shipping libxul ..19:22
disqoff topic: anybody have a solution to use mc on putty with utf8, with the line drawing characters? LANG=C is not a good idea as it disables utf8 input in mc19:22
GeneralAntillesNovember19:23
alteregoAnyhow, I doubt they'll do a dev program for this device.19:23
alteregoAs it's really just an N800 with a couple of mods.19:23
lardmanso there's still no official spec announcment then?19:23
alteregoThere's not benifit to developers, (except maybe for the GPS)19:23
GeneralAntillesToo bad.19:24
alteregoIn fact, it wouldn't suprise me if Nokia stop the developer program completely now.19:24
* GeneralAntilles slaps lardman with a link: http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html19:24
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: Thanks, not sure where I was supposed to see that though...19:25
disqhttp://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/1677724819:25
GeneralAntillesScroll up. ;)19:25
disqah. yeah19:25
lardmanI've just joined, at home19:25
zoranmaps included19:25
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disqone SD slot?19:25
GeneralAntillesIt was sent after you joined. :P19:25
disqthough makes sense with the bumped up internal mem19:26
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alteregoThe themes are getting worse ..19:26
zoran2 slots19:26
GeneralAntillesWho cares about the themes?19:26
disq2gig could mean they're not using jffs2 anymore19:26
GeneralAntillesThe 3rd-party stuff is so much better, anyway.19:26
GeneralAntillesHooray for Plankton!19:26
disqas jffs2 is slow19:26
zoraninside card19:26
zoranoutside could be 8 Gb19:26
nad_zoran: ssh needs the network layer to be up, and I don't know if it is started without X11 (it seemed to me that it is  started by the wireless applet). I am still investigating how can I start it with the iw* tools19:27
zoranprobably vfat19:27
alterego3rd party themes?19:27
shaprYay N810!19:27
alteregoI've seen a couple and they were boring.19:27
zorannad_, don't rush!19:27
GeneralAntillesSeen Plankton?19:27
_MonkeyI haven't seen 'Plankton', GeneralAntilles19:27
GeneralAntilles>_>19:27
GeneralAntillesHe needs a trigger19:27
disq"3.5 mm stereo headphone plug (Nokia AV Connector)" "AV"? hmmmm19:27
zoranjust send a mail to maemo-users19:27
disq"V"! :)19:27
GeneralAntillesBoo! No specs bump, shapr. ;)19:27
shaprWah?19:27
Jaffadisq: I noticed that too19:28
shaprIt's a bit faster.19:28
zorannad_, do you ahve a min for me to fire up the device?19:28
GeneralAntilles80MHz19:28
shaprWhat's up with the "up to 2GB internal memory" ?19:28
alteregodisq, that is on the N800 too.19:28
nad_zoran: sure, thanks!19:28
mgedminwhat, what? n810 is announced already and I didn't notice???19:28
alteregoRegardless, the N810 looks really nasty ..19:28
GeneralAntillesBullshit19:28
GeneralAntillesIt looks great.19:28
shaprLooks like the webcam only faces forward.19:28
shaprI'll get it for the internal GPS.19:29
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html19:29
snowmooncompared to the bulge... the 810 is slicker19:29
alteregoGeneralAntilles, we've already discovered your bad taste in aesthetics :P19:29
GeneralAntillesBy what, Plankton?19:29
disq80mhz bump, plus the filesystem could be ext2/ext3/reiserfs now, using jffs2 is a waste of cpu when you have the space19:29
GeneralAntillesYou're kidding, right?19:29
shaprooh, ambient light sensor.. is that just the camera?19:29
alteregoThe speakers are on the back.19:29
GeneralAntillesFan of Vista then, right?19:29
snowmoon70mhz... 330->400 ( last I checked that's 70 )19:29
alteregoO_o19:29
* GeneralAntilles is bad at math.19:29
alteregosnowmoon, it's exactly the same chip as in the N800.19:29
GeneralAntillesSpeakers are on the side.19:29
shaprOh, it switched to a Mozilla browser? No more Opera?19:30
alteregoBack side.19:30
mgedminno N810 article on wikipedia yet19:30
disqsnowmoon: 320.37 bogomips is probably 320mhz and not 330?19:30
zorannad_, first is fb-progress.sh19:30
snowmoondisq: bongomips ~= mhz in any way shape or form19:30
snowmoon!=19:30
zoranthen ppp19:30
zoranthen dnsmasq19:30
zorandbus and ssh19:31
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disqin intel that is.19:31
zoranlmce, x server next19:31
zoranaf-services19:31
shaprdisq: Does the AV connector mean the plug does microphone in as well?19:31
disqthe plug always did microphone19:31
shaproh19:31
shaprEven on the 770?19:32
disqnot on the 77019:32
zorandsp-init, bluez,bme-proxy,osso-hss19:32
shaprOk, I only have a 770.19:32
alteregoshapr, yes. Exactly like the N800.19:32
zoranesd, osso-systemui19:32
shaprWas planning to buy an N800 next month, but I'll get an N810 instead.19:32
* mgedmin wants more pics19:32
zoranbtcond19:32
zoranke-recv, wlancond19:32
shaprhiya mgedmin19:33
GeneralAntillesshapr, at $230 versus $480?19:33
mgedminhi shapr19:33
mgedminwhat, $48019:33
mgedminthat's robbery!19:33
shaprGeneralAntilles: Where can you get an N800 for $230?19:33
snowmoonMSRP $47919:33
mgedmingood think USD is down right now19:33
snowmoonshapr: buy.com19:33
lardmanInteresting that the Ti website has no mention of an omap 2420 clocked at 400MHz19:33
_Monkeyit has been said that buy.com is awesome because they ship free and dont charge tax a lot of places19:33
shaprIn that case... N800 it is.19:33
zorannad_, what do you think about?19:33
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zoransafe enough?19:34
alteregolardman, if you looked at the docs in more detail you'd see it.19:34
alteregoIt's carefully hidden away.19:34
mgedmin$480 ~= $340 EUR --> more or less what I paid for my fist 77019:34
nad_zoran: still looking19:34
alteregoI imagine this means that Chinook has got better PM.19:34
GeneralAntillesmgedmin: http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n81019:34
mgedminthanks, general!19:34
lardmanalterego: indeed, on the first page of the pdf, my mistake19:35
alterego:)19:35
HGFBI'm in the UK. I wonder when I'll be able to buy one19:35
alteregoAnyhow, enough of this gibber gabber.19:35
* lardman was worried it was a 2430, with no DSP19:35
* alterego gets back to work.19:35
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mgedminhm, the top is not visible in those pictures19:39
mgedminwhat do the zoom keys look like?19:39
disqyeah maybe it's butt ugly19:39
GeneralAntilleshttp://internettablettalk.wordpress.com/19:39
shaprI wonder that also.19:40
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snowmoonhttp://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777244    wtf is that connector... it's not standard USB19:40
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GeneralAntilleshttp://www.flickr.com/photos/thoughtfix/19:40
GeneralAntillesMicro-usb19:40
lardmanno a2dp listed on the supported bluetooth profile list19:40
shaprIt looks like that's a button on the top left front corner.19:40
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zoranbattery could be weaker for all those parts19:41
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shaprlardman: Yeah, that's slightly worrisome.19:41
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shaprYeah, wtf is that usb connector?19:42
GeneralAntillesmicro-usb19:42
snowmoonIf it's micro, how come it looks bigger than mini-usb19:43
HGFBlooks like we've lost a memory card slot too19:43
shaprIt's kinda weird to have the d-pad on the slide-in keyboard.19:43
GeneralAntillesI didn't name the spec. >_>19:43
snowmoonI think the dpad loss was to make it's flootprint much smaller19:43
snowmoonhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/thoughtfix/1601800354/19:43
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shaprI do like the smaller footprint.19:44
GeneralAntillesN800 is a ridiculously better buy at this point.19:44
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Takugh - dpad on slideout is horrible19:44
snowmoonGeneralAntilles: Yep, and this new unit is going to further drive down the price on the 80019:45
lardmanshapr: don't worry it's on the todo list, so we'll get it eventually19:45
GeneralAntillesCan't wait for Chinook.19:45
shaprGood to hear.19:46
Jiten_does someone have any idea why my python program is showing up like a regular gtk-program even though I use hildon.Window? I'm running bora SDK in x86 mode.19:46
lmouraJiten_, running using run-standalone.sh?19:46
Jiten_I don't think so19:47
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Jiten_doesn't using hildon.Window make it unnecessary?19:47
lmouraTry "run-standalone.sh <your-program-here>"19:47
mgedmina micro usb plug next to a mini usb plug: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USB_types_2.jpg19:47
lmouraJiten_, in the device, yes19:47
mgedminlooks a bit smaller19:48
mgedminshame about not being able to reuse the same cable19:48
GeneralAntillesThinner is the key19:48
lmourawhile in the SDK, run-standalone.sh sets some env variables to fix it19:48
Daniellionwonder if its a powerd usb19:49
GeneralAntillesHighly unlikely.19:49
Jiten_ah, right, thank you19:49
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zoranmultimedia tablet19:50
* zoran goes to measure fire temperature at dragons' cave19:52
mgedmininteresting: "handwriting recognition" is not listed among input methods19:52
Jiten_maybe the binary module cost them too much :)19:53
mgedmin"Operating system updates available over the Internet" -- sounds like future OS upgrades via apt-get19:53
mgedminI wonder if the mail client is the old brain-dead one, or if modest is finally ready19:54
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Jiten_future updates via apt-get sounds good.19:56
mgedminwhat's the diff between BP-4L and BP-5L batteries?  both are 1500mAh Li-polymer19:56
mgedmindifferent form factor?19:56
disqboth 1500mah? hmm. form factor then19:56
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TPChm.. specs has been posted19:58
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Taktechnically, the method we have now could be called "over the Internet"19:58
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mgedmin20g heavier...20:01
GeneralAntillesSounds like you'll have to start working out. :P20:04
snowmoon20g heavier, but a smaller, more pocketable footprint20:05
TPChm.. only miniSD and microSD?20:05
TPCthat sucks20:05
lardmanpocketprint20:05
GeneralAntillesWith the extender20:06
GeneralAntillesIt's an SD slot.20:06
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nad_zoran: I need to postpone this until later today, my wifi AP does not like the N800 very much, the link goes down from time to time... I have another AP, but not here and I've never had problems with that one...20:07
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mgedminbuttons on top: http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/1677724620:13
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TPCI wonder if the map application included with chinook can be used on the N800 as well with a bluetooth GPS20:22
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mgedminI wonder when chinook will be available for the N80020:26
mgedminprobably time to install scratchbox again, given how it's not binary compatible with bora20:26
TPCit says in the announcement on maemo.org20:26
TPCthe same day sales start, mid november20:26
TPC"The Nokia N810 will be in the shops on mid November. As soon as sales start, N800 users will be able to upgrade to the OS2008 as well." - http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192637131.html20:27
jjomgedmin: it kind of depends whether it's compatible or not20:27
||cwhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-hands-on/20:27
mgedminalso http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html20:28
jjodepends on what version of debian devkit you have20:28
wumpusthe biggest reason that n770 things don't work on the n800 is the built in floating point unit, right?20:28
lardmanno20:28
mgedminheh, I like the model number "NOO" on that picture20:28
lardmanthe n800 doesn't use the fp unit for much at all20:28
mgedminooh, translucency effects20:28
wumpusunless the n810 has another such big change, I doubt things will get really uncompatible.. at least, I hope20:28
wumpuswouldn't like my n800 to be obsolete (by nokia's standards) already20:30
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mgedminisn't20:31
mgedminlooks like nokia learned the lesson20:31
mgedminthe n810 looks like an alternative to n800 for those who cried (very loudly) for a hardware keyboard20:31
mgedminsame software, (mostly) same hardware capabilities20:31
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mgedmingps is nice, though20:32
TPCits a nice upgrade, 70mhz extra, built in gps, keyboard20:32
TPCbut not worth the extra monkey if you have a 800 already20:32
TPCmoney*20:32
[31d1]extra monkey is always worth it20:33
mgedminonly when they give it to you20:33
mgedminnot the other way around20:33
* mgedmin wishes he had an extra monkey20:33
wumpusgps sounds really nice, though it probably means faster battery drain, the keyboard I wouldn't really use anyway20:33
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mgedminI wonder if the maps app is (a) open source (b) based on maemo mapper20:34
mgedminprobably no on both counts20:34
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mgedmin"optional 10GB memory card"?20:35
TPCwell, nokia did buy some gps company not long ago20:35
mgedminwhere can I get me one of those?20:35
TPCso its probably the app from that company20:35
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wumpus10gb? wow20:35
pupniknice find GeneralAntilles20:36
GeneralAntillesWhich?20:36
mgedminthe n810, I suppose20:37
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mgedminyour link to the tech specs here was the first thing I heard about it20:37
GeneralAntilleshttps://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20105749&postID=115557909076509276320:37
mgedminwell, okay, shapr talking about it was the first thing I noticed actually20:37
GeneralAntillesanonymous user posted the specs.20:38
mgedminhaving to wait till mid november is no fun :(20:38
shapr?20:38
mgedminotoh maybe my want will wane till then20:38
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GeneralAntillesI don't desire the N81020:39
shaprI do, I want the GPS.20:39
GeneralAntillesIt's a pretty pointless upgrade for current N800 users.20:39
Robot101GeneralAntilles: the hardware is muuuuch nicer20:39
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mgedminthe muchness depends on whether you want a hardware kb20:39
mgedminI want the smaller size and the gps20:39
GeneralAntillesshapr: http://www.amazon.com/i-Blue-737-Bluetooth-GPS-Receiver/dp/B000KH7MZ4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0809862-2088831?ie=UTF8&s=miscellaneous&qid=1192642792&sr=8-120:40
bstocki hope there's an optional hard case for it20:40
GeneralAntillesGPS is just gonna be a battery waste20:40
GeneralAntillesbluetooth GPS units are cheap20:40
mgedminI assume you can turn it off20:40
mgedminlugging around an external gps is not convenient20:40
GeneralAntillesand probably a lot more accurate than what's in an external one20:40
shaprYeah, I really want fewer things to lug around.20:40
GeneralAntillesIt's plenty convenient, I just leave it in the car.20:40
mgedmin(whether the convenience is worth an extra $480 is a good question)20:40
shaprI'm asking myself that question too.20:40
shapr$230 for an N800 and ~$50 for a bluetooth GPS20:41
GeneralAntillesRobot101: 70MHz, fewer SD card slots, reduction in hardware button usability?20:41
shapror $480 for the N81020:41
mgedminstill, what does "Up to 2GB internal memory" mean in the tech specs?20:41
GeneralAntillesGet the N80020:41
shaprYeah, I want to know that!20:41
mgedmingiven that it also says "Supports cards up to 8GB. "20:41
disqyeah they say 256m flash, and then in storage section up to 2gig internal memory20:41
shaprWhere does it mention the card slots for the N810?20:41
czrI read somewhere that it has internal memory and two slots20:41
czrthe internal memory holds gps maps mostly20:41
mgedminI assume those 256megs flash are the internal memory20:42
mgedminmaybe you can get a model with more?20:42
mgedminlike ipods?20:42
lardmanAnyone notice this: We will publish tomorrow the details of the N810 maemo device program.20:42
snowmoonengadget photos seem to indicate no internal sd slot20:42
lardmanfrom the maemo announcment20:42
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shaprI like the dual SD slots in the N800, if the N810 has only one slot, I'll definitely go for the N80020:43
penguinbaitsorry I left for a while, do we have hardware specs?20:43
mgedminI didn't like that bit with eating SD cards in the external slot on the N80020:43
TPCpenguinbait, yes20:43
mgedminit ate me a 512mb card20:43
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.maemoapps.com/20:43
penguinbaitwhere?20:43
Robot101GeneralAntilles: its smaller, slicker, has a real keyboard. what do you mean 70MHz?20:43
snowmoonWith only one slot... how much of that will be taken up by maps on the 810?20:43
mgedminRobot101: the N800 has a 330 mhz cpu, the N810 has a 400 mhz cpu20:44
TPCpenguinbait, http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html20:44
penguinbaithmmm, memory20:44
Robot101oh, I didn't realise it was faster20:44
penguinbaitoh thanks20:44
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's not a $480 upgrade.20:44
Robot101and I thought it still had two SD slots but I never checked in detail20:44
snowmoonwhat's the "nub" for? http://www.engadget.com/gallery/nokia-n810-hands-on/443959/20:44
GeneralAntillesThat's an LED20:45
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GeneralAntillesJust like the d-pad light on the N80020:45
mgedminyay, fullscreen separate from zoom buttons20:45
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penguinbaitnot real impressive huh20:46
GeneralAntillesNope20:46
* GeneralAntilles cries over the lack of OMAP 34xx20:47
mgedminwhat's the "Chr" button do?20:47
* flip^ glances at the n810 stuff and isn't as impressed as others seem to be20:47
GeneralAntillesHopefully the N900 isn't more than 6 months away.20:47
GeneralAntillesmgedmin: I'm guessing it's the same as option on Mac OS X20:47
* mgedmin doesn't have mac os x20:47
mgedminentering accented letters?20:48
GeneralAntillesLet's you type the extended characters.20:48
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443966/20:48
GeneralAntillesStylus, for all the blind out there.20:48
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mgedminhm20:48
GeneralAntillesand, evidently, a hardware lock.20:48
mgedminis that a full-size sd slot or a mini-sd slot?20:48
GeneralAntillesIt better be fullsize. . . .20:49
GeneralAntillesWow, check out the change to the application menu.20:49
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443984/20:49
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shaprIs there a Nokia Internet Tablet facebook group?20:51
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disqthere's one maemo users group and one 770 group20:51
disqthe app menu changes are not new.20:52
disqthey're in sardine too20:52
* GeneralAntilles isn't cool enough to run Sardine, so they're new to me.20:52
* mgedmin looks at http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443962/ and thinks "no way that's a full-size sd slot"20:52
[31d1]i wonder if one could get neat new stuff from nokia with the serial of that engadget dealy20:53
kaltsimgedmin also the fact that it says mini SD on the card is a bit of a giveaway :)20:53
mgedminthe tech specs were a bit ambiguous: http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html#Contents20:54
mgedminit's not clear whether the (with extender) part applies just to microSD or to both in "Support for compatible miniSD and microSD memory cards (with extender)."20:54
||cwit will take a 2GB miniSD AND a 8GB SDHC20:54
mgedminthat would be good20:54
mgedminbut where's the second slot?20:54
HGFBI don't think there is a second slot20:55
GeneralAntillesToo bad20:55
GeneralAntilleswas a nice feature20:55
shapr||cw: huh?20:55
||cwhm, maybe that is ambigious20:56
* lardman|afk wonders if the transparency in the Ari Jaaksi post indicates powervr support?20:56
||cwon first read I though it said 2GB internal and an SDHC20:56
mgedminit does mention sdhc20:56
shaprI think it does say that, but it only mentions one slot.20:56
mgedmin"(SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.)"20:56
||cwinternal like under the battery like a lot of phones do20:57
disqlardman|afk: transparency?20:57
mgedminnot visible in the pictures20:57
lardman|afkdisq: yep20:57
disqwhere20:58
mgedmin||cw: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443977/20:58
lardman|afkdisq: http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html20:58
disqah, that one. lemme read20:58
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||cwmgedmin: I know... one of the comments says 2 sd slots though20:58
shaprmgedmin: Yeah, that doesn't show a spot for a card.20:58
lardman|afkhttp://bp1.blogger.com/_YaAt2fURNNU/RxXcuew1beI/AAAAAAAAACI/J0KcYVHh-E4/s1600-h/17102007448.jpg to be more exact20:58
mgedminotoh if that indentation in http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443961/ indicates the place for the sd card (accessible from the slot in the bottom), then it looks full-size20:59
||cwhttp://forum2.mobile-review.com/showpost.php?p=620035&postcount=2520:59
* flip^ wonders if that release of the Internet Tablet OS will end up being able to go on a n80020:59
* lardman|afk imagines so21:00
GeneralAntillesYes, flip^.21:00
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192637131.html21:01
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||cwpress releases says 10GB mem card....21:01
flip^aha21:01
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flip^I guess I'll be reflashing again next month :D21:02
shaprAha, it is mozilla!21:03
kaltsihere's a feature comparison table btwn the different tablets http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/platforms/maemo/index.html21:03
kaltsi(at the bottom of the page)21:03
timelessspeaking of mozilla21:05
timelessi'm looking for people here who use microb21:05
mgedmin"2 GB in-built, 1 memory card slot (compatible with miniSD and microSD cards up to 8 GB)"21:06
mgedminin addition to the 256 mb flash21:06
mgedmininteresting21:06
||cwscroll to the bottom here http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/platforms/maemo/index.html 2GB internal, I think the maps are on this, and microsd slot21:06
disqtimeless: update on iphone.fb.com?21:06
timelessgenerally they're on the internal, yes21:06
mgedminusb 2.0 otg21:06
mgedmindoes that mean host mode support?21:06
timelessdisq: no, sorry21:06
timelessmgedmin: that was the goal21:06
* flip^ wonders if they've just glued a 2gb sd card into the internals21:06
timelessi'm not quite sure if it happened21:06
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disqit'd just be better if it came with 2gig flash21:07
timelessflip: i haven't disassembled one yet, but essentially from a functional perspective, you might as well think about it that way21:07
timelessi.e. it's listed as a memory card21:07
timelessand you can corrupt it like an external memory card :)21:08
timeless(don't ask me how)21:08
||cwI wonder of the 2GB internal is removable21:08
timelessand you don't want 2gb of flash21:08
mgedminwith a big enough hammer, yes :-)21:08
timelessflash is *slow*21:08
* mgedmin always thought sd cards used flash internally, but /me is clueless21:08
timelessit's so slow tha the browser has disk cache disabled21:08
timelessprecisely because of that21:08
timelesswhich reminds me21:08
||cwmgedmin: there are different types of flash21:08
timelesswe should really consider forking the browser config based on n810/n80021:08
timelessi.e. we didn't do that :(21:08
* timeless sighs21:09
mgedminwhat filesystem does the the internal 2 gb use?21:09
timelesspresumably fat3221:09
timelessi can check tomorrow21:09
disqtimeless: isn't flash slow because it uses jffs2? if it was big enough you could use a uncompressed fs21:09
timelessi believe since the product is announced, i could have taken one home21:09
timelessdisq: no21:09
timelessat least, i believe it isn't21:09
timelessjffs2 is i believe because of the write balancing more than the compression21:10
timelessi.e. to avoid burning it out21:10
mgedminhm, I already have 2.1 gig used on my 4 gig sd card in my n800...21:10
disqah, yeah. internal flash doesn't have write balancing like the external cards. true, forgot about that21:10
timelessmy biggest cards are 2g21:10
mgedminshame, I though I could get away without an external card21:10
timelessdisq: good, because i'm not a hardware guy, so i can't explain anything beyond that :)21:11
* timeless frowns21:11
timelessit says there's a hw QWERTY keyboard21:11
timelesswhat if i want an AZERTY or QWERTZ keyboard21:11
timeless(actually, i believe it has one of those)21:12
suihkulokkidisq: you might want to google for movinand21:12
disqsure21:12
shaprI want dvorak.21:12
timelessshapr: i haven't seen *any* suppor for that :)21:12
shaprI've been using dvorak since 1992!21:13
* timeless waits for someone to write: "I've been breathing on my own since 1993!"21:13
mgedmin"HW keyboard variants: English, German, French, Italian, Spanish-Portuguese, Scandinavian and Russian"21:13
* Tak 197921:13
* shapr 197121:13
disqold. are we. :P21:14
* disq 198121:14
shaprI'm old, but at least I don't look old.21:14
czryou look ancient?21:14
* czr 197621:14
* timeless cries21:15
timelesshas anyone here looked a the content provided as links from those pages?21:15
* univac 1990 ;d21:15
shaprNah, I look about 27.21:15
* timeless cries21:15
shaprtimeless: ?21:16
timelesshttp://maemo4mobile.garage.maemo.org/introduction.html21:16
timeless> For instance, a web browser on an Internet Tablet is full featured with support to AJAX and Flash.21:16
timelesslast i checked the 770 doesn't support AJAX or Flash21:16
timelesss/doesn't/didn't/ :(21:16
shaprGoogle maps works for me on my 770 with OS2007 Hacker's Edition.21:16
timelessshapr: hey're not talking about os200721:17
shaproh21:17
timelesshttp://www.forum.nokia.com/main/platforms/maemo/index.html#documentation21:17
timelessclearly doesn't lis os2007 in the 770 column21:17
timelessthey also don't understand how to use a spell checker21:17
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* timeless notes that there's a spellchecker available for microb21:17
timelesshrm21:18
timelesshas no one filed a bug complaining that notes doesn't offer a spell checker? :)21:18
* mgedmin thinks it's strange firefox's spell checker doesn't provide any suggestions21:18
timelesseh?21:18
timelessright click21:18
lardman|afkis the forum nokia support free?21:18
timelessthat's how i correct people's mistakes21:18
pupniktimeless: what does the dpad action feel like - is there a tactile click to move left/right, or is it soft-press?21:18
timelesspupnik: eh21:19
mgedmintimeless: maybe one of my ffox extensions ate them :(21:19
timelessparse error :(21:19
suihkulokkiThis so great example of the maemo sdk people braindamage: http://maemo4mobile.garage.maemo.org/compile_move.html21:19
timelessmgedmin: maybe21:19
disqtimeless: yeah tell us about the new dpad. is it a trackpad? no?21:19
timelessdisq: it's like some of the newer nokia phones21:19
Takdoes it feel like 770 dpad, or like a decent dpad?21:19
pupniktimeless: when you press dpad on the 770 you feel resistance then a click.21:19
timelesswe're reusing components21:19
timelesspersonally my favorite dpad is the 77021:19
timelessfollowed by the n800, and now the n81021:19
lardman|afkhmm, 160 euros per case21:19
timelessi think the e61i is the bottom of this short list21:19
suihkulokkiinstead of actually writing an app that makes transferring binaries to _EASY_, lets document this long and tedious process21:20
timelessmost other nokia dpads are even worse21:20
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disqtimeless: so, when you move your finger on the center square part, you can ie. pan a map? without pressing the side arrowkeys21:20
pupnikok thanks - 770 is close to usable :)21:20
timelessdisq: no21:20
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timelessit's just a button21:20
timelessfwiw, i don't use the n810 much21:20
disqah21:20
timelessi started using it jokingly last week21:20
disqthanks for the clarification :)21:21
timelessi find a couple of bugs in every few minutes of use21:21
timelessand spend time trying to find people to get info from my bugs21:21
timelessand then i go back to browser problems21:21
timelesslike, it turns out we're really stupid21:21
timelessand most of our strings are really bad21:21
disqi should update my sardine and see what's going on21:21
timelessanyway, would a few microb users please volunteer to test something for me?21:21
disqsure. if it doesn't involve much typing on the vkb :P21:22
timelesshrm21:22
timelesscan you please not use a pastebin?21:22
timelessi don't want to be accused of leaking anything21:22
disqsure21:22
Takj'accuse!21:23
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mgedminhm, if I buy a yet another internet table, the empty box won't fit on my shelf where I keep all the empty boxes21:26
pupnik_beh did i miss an answer timeless?21:26
timelesspupnik: sorry, did you volunteer?21:27
pupnik_i got disconnected21:28
timelessjs bindings?21:28
Takmgedmin: you'll have to have a bonfire21:28
pupnik_there will be no devices in the idiot stores in my town21:28
Takpupnik_: you should definitely get a device if they do a developer program21:28
* pupnik_ agrees :}21:29
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Tak(while "should" in the moral sense definitely applies, I meant "should" as in "are likely to")21:30
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timelesshey21:31
timelessquick question,21:31
_Monkeyquick question, is there a clock taskbar app for IT2006?21:31
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disqlol21:31
disq_Monkey: forget quick question21:31
_Monkeydisq, I didn't have anything matching quick question21:31
timeless_monkey forget quick question21:31
_Monkeytimeless, I didn't have anything matching quick question21:31
disq_Monkey: forget quick question,21:31
_Monkeydisq: I forgot quick question,21:31
timelesswow!21:31
timeless_monkey quick question, is <reply>21:32
_MonkeyOK, timeless.21:32
disq_Monkey: quick question,?21:32
_Monkeyi don't know, disq21:32
timelessthat's so random... (and yes, i understand how it happened)21:32
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timeless_monkey literal quick quesion,21:32
_Monkeytimeless: what?21:32
timeless_monkey literal quick question,21:33
_Monkeytimeless: quick question, =is= <reply>21:33
timelessoh fsck21:37
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lardman|afkinteresting - omapdsp: frame buffer has been exported already!21:38
pupnik_20:24 <@Michae1> maybe I'll buy a tub of them21:39
pupnik_20:24 <@Michae1> and take internet tablet baths21:39
mgedminthat's a novel use case21:39
TPCI did that :)21:39
TPCI have a waterproof casing for pdas, with a soft transparant front21:40
TPCyou can use the touch screen trought it :)21:40
keesjlardman what are you doing , it sounds very interesting21:40
lardman|afktrying to write to the framebuffer from the dsp21:41
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lardman|afkssvb/serge was interested in doing full screen video in mplayer by offloading the scaling and conversion routines21:41
lardman|afks/was/is21:42
czrsilly question, when the rootstrap installation script for bora is run, is the apt-get executed within the targets already or in scratchbox using host tools?21:42
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|Rany idea how many apps will break on OS2008? :)21:44
lardman|afkall of them21:44
lardman|afkthey have moved to a newer version of gtk+ iirc21:44
flip^hopefully most of the ones i use will be updated nice and quick tho ;)21:45
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lopzadiós21:45
* Tak waiting happily for hildon-glade21:46
lardmananyone know, off hand, where the framebuffer is exported to if CONFIG_FB_OMAP_LCDC_EXTERNAL is set...?21:46
Jiten_it seems calling window.show_all() is the only way to get toolbar buttons to show with pygtk and hildon.Window of course. The toolbar itself does show in either case.21:48
MDKJiten_: it's a bug in bora21:48
MDKJiten_: fixed in chinook21:48
Jiten_I see.21:48
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|Rany idea why Aplication manager would freeze when launched alone? :(21:51
pupnik_what's this little corner thing?  http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/10/nokia-n810-hands-on-05.jpg21:51
timelessthat's the light21:52
|Rpupnik_ : led21:52
timelessit's for annoying people21:52
|Rhehe21:52
pupnik_to blink for email messages when screen is dark?21:52
timelessyes21:52
suihkulokkimorse21:52
timelessit's the same annoying blue as last time21:52
timelessfwiw there's also a light indicator, i believe that's the smaller square highlighted by the light gloss in that picture21:53
timelessit's designed to let your screen go very bright if you thumb it, i suppose ... dunno21:53
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timelessthe light sensor also controls whether the keys have this nokia blue coloring bleeding through the letters21:54
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Tak|R: you check out the new releases?21:54
timelessthat picture also shows the fullscreen button21:54
disqi thought so. leds draw power21:54
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|RTak : the one on garage?21:55
timelesswhat it doesn't show is that you can't really access it when the keyboard is open :)21:55
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Takyes; in extras repo as well21:55
timelessthe zoom buttons are now thankfully no longer interrupted by the fullscreen button (back to the 770 design, yay!)21:55
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disqwhere's the menu key? the left keys are escape and home? or is it home? something else? if it's fullscreen, what's the left key on the top side?21:55
flip^menu is on the keyboard21:55
|RTak: well, i did yesterday, before i fucked up big time (trashed /bin instead of ~bin !!)21:55
timelessthe menu key is protected by the tray21:55
disqah, ok21:55
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timelessyou wouldn't want to use the menu key, would you? :(21:55
Taklol - doh!21:55
Takeverything seem ok up until that point?21:56
timelessfwiw, there's now a hardware keylock/unlock feature21:56
timelessit might work21:56
disqnow that the dpad is out of the picture (heh) we need to code some pulldown-like menus for kagu21:56
|RTak : now i'm reinstalling and it seems weird, it seems i'm using more space than before with basically not everything reinstalled yet and application manager won't launch...21:56
pupnik_20% brighter screen is going to be crazy bright21:56
disqcan't go on with dpad shortcuts21:56
flip^its brighter :o21:56
timelesspupnik: i can't speak to the brighter part21:56
|RTak : well yes, except all the but (beside top left) were reverted21:56
flip^pupnik_: think you'll be tempted to splash out?21:56
Takwhat?!21:56
timelesswe're in helsinki, and i haven't been able to take the device into the sun until today21:56
timelessand i won't be able to until there's sun, say maybe may?21:57
Takwith the released -bora4?21:57
timelessunless i fly to california...21:57
|Rlet me try my my "fresh" install...21:57
lardmantimeless: :)21:57
pupnik_heh21:57
timelesslardman: ...21:57
* Tak stab Xsp so viciously21:57
timelessfwiw, i don't particularly like the home/escape buttons21:57
timelessi think they're now much harder to use21:58
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timelessof note, the home button now only triggers the thumb menu21:58
timelessinstead of whichever menu you last triggered21:58
|RTak: ah ok, the more space usage problem is the restoration of nokia's video and such...21:58
|RTak: nop, still reverted buttons21:59
lardmantimeless: is the powervr used now?21:59
pupnik_engadget sure is worth sending an early unit to, for the sweet pix alone21:59
timelessum, if that's a hardware thing, i wouldn't know21:59
lardmanok22:00
* Tak sighs22:00
lardmanin which case, is the alpha blending good?22:00
* timeless sighs22:00
lardman:D22:00
timelessi need to file a bug about the browser art22:00
timelessthe icon we have for the browser app in the menu is wrong22:00
timelessthey switched art styles for the icons and didn't refresh the browser one22:00
* |R brb22:01
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timelessok, so, i'm looking for a second person to express an opinion on a web page (w/ microb)22:04
TPCI can do it22:06
timelessdisq: can you repeat the things i asked you to look at for tpc?22:07
timelessoops, wrong window22:07
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keesjis python included in 2008?22:11
|Rwe need a dpkg -l ;)22:11
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timelessheh22:16
keesjIf i read it correctly we might have the software on the n800 before the n810 hits the market22:16
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czrhmm. is there any particular reason why within targets the PATH is by default setup so that /usr/local/bin is after all the system paths?22:20
* czr curses silently22:20
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czrah. sbox breaks down LD_PRELOAD stuff as well.22:24
suihkulokkiczr: us SBOX_PRELOAD to ld_preload target binareis22:25
czrsuihkulokki, yeah, except that I'd have to rebuild the software since it does the LD_PRELOADing for me. I'll just ignore it22:26
czrsuihkulokki, trying to setup a virtual machine image suitable for SDK experementation, and attempted to setup zerotools ( http://koltsoff.com/pub/zerotools/ ) within both targets so that the virtual machine image would remain "clean"22:27
czrbut, I guess I'll just let it bloat then.22:27
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* zeenix wonders why the channel is not filled with N810 talk :)22:34
zeenixs/filled/flooded/22:34
snowmoonbecause it's a wimpy update22:34
Takalterego: is there a deb repo for ruby-maemo?22:34
mgedminzeenix: it was, for a while22:35
wumpusbecause most of us probably already have a n80022:35
mgedminsnowmoon: you can't please everyone, either people will complain about update wimpyness, or other people will complain that their brand new n800 became obsolete overnight22:35
mgedmin(or both)22:35
wumpusI'll probably skip this one, maybe go for the n900 when it's there :)22:36
alteregoTak, not yet. There will be soon :)22:36
HGFBI'm not sure how they can complain. Apart from the keyboard and gps the N800 is more capable :)22:36
wumpusunless they finally activated powervr and it has great 3d support, then I might consider buying one, but I doubht  it22:36
* Tak nods22:36
snowmoonI'm just hoping that the 810 will drive down the prices on the 800 so that I can justify it as a toy22:36
HGFBEspecially since OS2008 is going to be released very soon22:36
lardman|afkwumpus: if they did that, it ought to hold true for the n800 too22:36
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onionlooks nice22:37
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HGFBI don't think they've activated the powervr. A dev on another blog said the transparancy was cpu based22:37
lardmanah, shame22:37
MDKwumpus: no changes on this fron, but be patient22:37
MDK*front22:37
lardmanah, sounds interesting22:37
MDKthere are very complex issues involved, if it was simple, we would have done it22:38
lardmanMDK: like negotiating prices?22:38
wumpusgenuine technical issues or license stuff?22:38
MDKcomplex as in "not technically related"22:38
onionbut are we 770 user 100% screwed now?22:38
MDKdon't ask me, I can't talk (I wish I could)22:38
wumpuswell, if it was technical I'd gladly help :p22:38
lardmanMDK interesting none the less, thanks for the hints22:39
guerbyI don't see why Nokia would not release new hardware for N800 as fast as they release phones: everyone knows product are replaced every 6 monthes by something better22:39
alteregoonion, depends what you mean. The platform is so open I'm sure developers could, on their own, compile root filesystem images from the latest releases. Though I imagine that OS2008 which uses main stream Gtk etc will be very slow on a 77022:39
guerbybuying one of these gadget and complaining that something better is out after a few monthes is not logical22:39
lardmanis H.264 supported on the n800?22:39
MDKalterego: the "mainstream gtk" is not slower in OS200822:40
wumpusguerby: because a stable platform is good for software development, especially if you rely on open source22:40
alteregolardman, will be with OS2008 I believe, not sure if it is now. Should say in the spec docs.22:40
MDK(than it was in OS2007)22:40
alteregoMDK, it will be on the 77022:40
onionalterego: developing... I can't afford to get every model that comes out22:40
lardmanalterego: I was just thinking that the IVA is supposed to decode that22:40
alteregoThe issue here is not with the N800 it's continued OS images for the 770.22:40
guerbywumpus, software has to adapt to platform change continuously (especially in the UI world)22:41
wumpuspeople writing OS won't buy a new device every few months, so might get tired of it.. of course, they can release incrementally better devices (like the N810 seems to be)22:41
alteregoThe N800 will be supported until OS2009 I believe.22:41
wumpusbut breaking compatibility again this soon would be a bad idea22:41
wumpusalterego: great22:41
MDKguys, remember there is a developer program (or is going to be soon)22:41
alteregoMDK, you really think they'll have on for the N810? I'm personally not so sure about that .. ;)22:42
MDKso you can get discounted device if you have a nice maemo development history22:42
guerbywumpus, it looks like N810 will not break compat, but I've no problem if they do break22:42
TakI'm with onion - I'd like to see OS2008HE22:42
disqalterego: the maemo announcement says there will be.22:42
alteregoOh, that's great.22:42
MDKalterego: yes, there will be one for n81022:42
* alterego will apply :)22:42
wumpusguerby: I would, I can't be bothered buying a new device every year.. I don't do that for phones either22:42
alteregoI wonder if ruby-maemo will give me enough credits to be accepted into the program ^_^22:43
MDKalterego: ah, you're the guy doing the ruby stuff?22:43
guerbywumpus, yes but in what a new device bother you then?22:43
wumpusand phones have JME applets anyway which have been working for a long time22:43
alteregoMDK, indeed :)22:43
lardmanwhat is the cause of the n800's video bandwidth issue? the lcd controller?22:43
wumpusguerby: incompatibility, old versus new developers, etc22:43
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MDKalterego: ah, I'll test it soon22:44
guerbywumpus, did you complain when new phone model came out?22:44
MDKalterego: now you see why I asked about chinook support ;)22:44
alteregoMDK, best wait till the major release. It's only a few days away :)22:44
wumpusguerby: phones run java, which remains compatible usually22:44
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suihkulokkiwumpus: the abi break know is to get rid of the forked gtk.. now that it's "mainstream gtk", it shouldn't break22:44
pauliukasWell, there we have it. My 770 is officially obsolete.22:44
alteregoMDK, I've been planning ahead on this project the whole way. After I get 1.0 out I'm going to start working on Ruby1.9/2.0 for the device, ready for when Ruby is released at the end of this year.22:44
onionpauliukas: yeah, welcome to the club...22:45
timeless"shouldn't"22:45
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timelessyou mean, until the next time gtk breaks its abis :)22:45
pauliukasonion: Thanks for the welcome.22:45
suihkulokkitimeless: gtk2 in mainstream distro's has not changed soname..22:45
alteregoWhy do you think it's obsolete?22:45
czryou can always make a small gtk-program to turn the 770 into a wireless picture frame ;-)22:45
alteregoThe 770 still has oodles of potential :)22:45
wumpussuihkulokki: yes, there will be less reason why an OS might not work on the n880, unless maemo pulls a vista/aero kind of thing, but that'd drain battery like hell22:45
MDKtimeless: gtk hasn't broken API compatibility since years22:46
suihkulokki..ofcourse, the chinook gtk is still patched and has dozens of unstable #MAEMO_CHANGES things22:46
MDKwe broke it, because we fucked up the whole thing right from start ;)22:46
MDKby forking our stuff22:46
alteregoHah22:46
mgedminpauliukas: wasn't it officially obsolete back when the n800 first came out?22:46
lodxcolcan someone link me to the page that has the package url's for gaim on the nokia 77022:46
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MDKso we needed this disruption to get back on sanity track22:46
onionyou should get spanked for that ;)22:46
MDKyes, it's bad that we broke it22:46
pauliukasmgedmin: To me, the 800 wasn't a huge improvement.22:46
mgedminI don't see how n810 changes things for 770 owners22:46
MDKbut we broke it for a reason not to break it in future22:47
timelesstpc: dunno22:47
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TPCtimeless, wrong channel22:47
alteregoI happen to own an N800 and a 770. To me the N800 is a vast improvement ..22:47
suihkulokkiMDK: some "minor" things like TAP-AND-HOLD menu might still break if/when upstream chooses another approach22:47
alteregoUpstream has already chosen an approach.22:48
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Takheh, I prefer the 77022:48
snowmoon770 was just too slow for me to take seriously22:48
* alterego gets back to work.22:48
MDKsuihkulokki: we're ina very close contact with upstram22:48
snowmoonI played with it for a while22:48
lodxcolanyone?22:48
MDKalso, guys, be reasonable22:49
alteregoHah22:49
timelesserr, don't ask linux users to be reasonable22:49
suihkulokki:)22:49
MDKseriously, n800 owners (one year old hw) get now full software upgrade22:49
MDKwith new shit, one year worth of bugfixing etc.22:49
wumpusyeah, the 770 was a bit too slow, which is why I didn't buy it when it came out22:49
MDKI'm not saying we're perfect22:49
lardmanlodxcol: have you tried the maemo package list thingy?22:49
guerbylodxcol, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationCatalog22:49
wumpusMDK: I'm not complaining22:50
lardmanthat's the one22:50
MDKbut we're getting better and we learn the lessons ;)22:50
alteregoBug fixing and _features_. Not to mention the new API's are a lot nicer.22:50
wumpusI love the N80022:50
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wumpusthere's always stuff that can be done better but the project is coming along well22:50
MDKalso, I should note that that OS2008 has been FULLY tested on n80022:50
snowmoonwho is, MDK, I think the N series has a lot of potential... I was just hoping for more with the 81022:50
MDKso it's not something like -- we just release it for n80022:50
wumpusalso a lot of apps available22:50
MDKit has been developed and tested all the time on n80022:50
wumpusand quite a good package system22:51
* flip^ glances in and wonders if MDK works for nokia or something22:51
snowmoonthe gecko based browser is a big step... lots of built in upgrades right there... google docs should work22:51
alteregoI still want libxul!!!!22:51
mgedminI wish maemo cloned the Ubuntu approach (single shared repository, source-only uploads, build daemons for many architectures, volunteer maintainers that can fix any package)22:52
zeenixyup! i see a big positive diff when i compare the new software with the last released22:52
wumpusopera will be ditched?22:52
* snowmoon ponders... google gears for OS200822:52
zeenixflip^: he does :)22:52
wumpusI don't know if I'm really that happy about that22:52
MDKwumpus: it's ditched22:52
timelessfwiw, someone did google gears for microb22:52
alteregomgedmin, ubuntu don't make hardware.22:52
timelessthey were supposed to write an announcement somewhere22:52
zeenixflip^: but i don't, i swear :)22:52
mgedminalterego: maemo.org doesn't either ;-)22:52
wumpusat least on my old P550 machine, opera is a lot more responsive and uses less memory than firefox22:52
timelessi don't know what happened to it22:52
* flip^ raises an eyebrow at zeenix 22:53
snowmoonwith gears it would be dirt simple to sync google to OS2008 and be on the go for a while without WiFi22:53
wumpusbut I can see why gecko is preferable22:53
mgedminis google gears open-source?22:53
mgedminif so, it can be ported22:53
mgedminiirc microb supports extensions22:53
konttorievening guys!22:53
timelessit does22:53
* konttori starts to read the backlog22:53
timelessas i  said, someone did a google gears port22:54
timelessthey were supposed to write an announcement, i don't know what happened to it22:54
timelesshttp://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/22:54
mgedminoh, right, I missed that22:54
mgedmintoo much traffic here22:54
timelessit could be worse, i have 3 other heres here22:55
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timelessdunno, trying to push the google search button down i guess?22:57
timelessarg22:57
timelessgah. i need to consider a graphical irc client22:58
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* alterego recommends XChat :)22:59
konttoritimeless: thanks for the greasemonkey. So, now I could for example without much trouble write a script that will open youtube clips directly in uktube or even in mplayer.22:59
timelessofficially i wasn't involved22:59
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timelessbut i'm glad you liked the link23:00
* Tak recommend XChat23:00
konttorihey, will someone please port xchat for chinook now.23:01
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alteregoHeh23:01
konttorias you guys can see, messaging apps will suddendly make much more sense than before23:01
MDKis the maemo mappper developer around?23:01
alteregokonttori, that's a good point ;)23:01
konttoriI think pidgin is being worked on23:01
konttorignuite?23:01
roopeHello.23:01
MDKwe need to port maemo mapper23:01
alteregopidgin is awesome ..23:01
konttorihi roope23:01
* roope ears are still ringing from Muse.23:01
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disqso, when do we get modest as the default mail client :P23:02
juh0what is the status of os2008 for n800? ready or not?23:02
timelessmuse?23:02
Larisocan anyone help me with running a shell script from the n800 menu?23:02
roopeMuse, the band.23:02
pupnik_ Lariso easiest way is to install load-applet-run or osso-statusbar-cpu to run shell scripts23:02
disqkonttori: how's kagu behaving on chinook? :P23:03
konttorididn't try23:03
Larisoi'll try that. i'm using 2007 HE23:03
konttoriI did port (well.. port ;) ukmp to it23:03
disqbut you tried ukmp didn't you :P23:03
konttoriyeah23:03
Lariso^^should have typed n700 up there23:03
Jiten_I guess I should build this application I'm writing right now with an eye on OS2008.23:03
Lariso*77023:03
konttoriworks just fine.23:03
bmidgleyis that a flash above the n810 camera?23:03
* Jiten_ goes looking for documents on the differences.23:03
konttoriOnly had to change gstreamer init23:03
konttorithat's the beauty of python.23:03
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snowmoonbmidgley: light sensor ( according to talk )23:04
bmidgleyok23:05
bmidgleywhat about zoom buttons? are they n800 style or the nicer 770 style?23:05
konttoridisq: I'll try kagu for you tomorrow23:05
timelesszoom nbuttons are 770 style23:06
konttoriWe are still not allowed to take protos home23:06
timelessbut unsable w/ keyboard open23:06
timelesskonttori: really?23:06
konttorior are we... maybe we are.. anyway, I don't have it.23:06
timelesssomeone said once the real things are known that we should be23:06
timelessnote: i'm not yet, i don't see the point23:06
timelessi.e. the announcement was today23:06
timelessand the hardware is clearly in the wild23:06
konttoriYeah, so we should be able to use it in public now23:07
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pauliukaswhat?23:07
pauliukasYou had that all the time long?23:07
timelesshad wha?23:07
konttorianyway, I'll take it home tomorrow, but I'll try to test kagu at the office.23:07
pauliukas"konttori23:07
pauliukas:23:07
pauliukasYeah, so we should be able to use it in public now"23:07
disqkonttori: thank you :)23:07
pauliukasWho's this "we"23:08
timelessnokians23:08
timelesswe've had protos for months23:08
Larisodo i have to reboot after installing osso-statusbar-cpu or will it not run on 2007 HE23:08
konttoriyeah, well, I work for nokia now as well. Started 1,5 months ago.23:08
pauliukasmotherfu...23:08
timelessbut you can't talk about products until they're announced23:08
timelessso you wouldn't hear anyone talk about them until today23:08
pauliukasoh come on.23:08
pauliukasYou can make loads of money.23:09
pauliukasnokiarumors.com23:09
pauliukasor something like that.23:09
czryou can always wait for some unrelated press-releases to leak out the info though :-)23:09
pauliukas9to5nokia.com :-P23:09
konttoriwe have been relly busy working to get the thing polished for the past weeks, so I haven't had the time to try out any 3rd party stuff on it. otherwise I would have tested kagu already23:09
timelessczr: yeah well23:09
timelessthat means we can talk a day earlier23:09
timelessnot very helpful, and not like we care23:09
* czr nods23:09
timelessi'm not really interested in the n81023:09
pauliukasBS!23:09
timelessas a browser dev, i really don't care about the n81023:09
* alterego imagines that the N820 will be identical to the N810 + a GPRS/GSM modem ^_^23:09
timelessespecially given we aren't even taking advantage of its internal mmc for caching23:10
timelesswhich is a bug i intend to file and possibly fix before we ship the n810s :)23:10
pauliukasbrowser dev?23:10
konttoriI can say that I think it's really a wonderful device. Keyboard extends the usefulness of the device so much that I can really see myself using it to just about anything now.23:10
czrtimeless, good luck getting that through the test cycle though ;-)23:10
pauliukasIsn't Opera doing the browser?23:10
timelessno23:10
MDKnot any more ;)23:10
pauliukasAnd while we're at it, how come the browser crashes a lot on the 770.23:10
pauliukasReally? Since when?23:10
konttoritimeless: why don't you cache there?23:11
timelesshttp://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/index.xml23:11
ian_brasilmgedmin: gears is BSD licensed23:11
czrkonttori, they keyboard is useful for real writing? or just IM?23:11
timelesskonttori: because we're idiots23:11
keesjtimeless: it'23:11
timelessas i said, i'll try to fix it before the n810s ship23:11
timelesskeesj: i'm speaking as browser architect23:11
keesjtimeless: it's great that microb made it23:11
timelessthere are a lot of stupid things we're not doing right23:11
timelessthat's only one of htem23:11
pauliukaswhat the fu...23:11
konttorikb is usefull for even real writing. But it's thumb, so writing is not so fast as on a real kb. But still, quite fast23:11
pauliukaswhy wasn't I told about this before.23:11
czrkonttori, nice to hear.23:11
timelesspauliukas: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/5/23:12
timelessspecifically for meet the team23:12
alteregotimeless, get them to stick libxul in the rootfs for me :)23:12
czrlack of keyb was the only thing that kept me from using the previous ITs for anything.23:12
timelessand since i guess someone announced it, the itos 2008 will not include opera23:12
timelessonly microb23:12
pauliukasgeez. this is crazy.23:12
pauliukasAnd microb is usable on OS2006?23:12
timelessalterego: believe me i want to23:12
alterego:)23:12
timelesspauliukas: yes, has been since i dunno, a while ago23:12
alteregoAny chance? I tried compiling it myself but it didn't work out so well ^_^23:13
pauliukaswow...23:13
pauliukasdownloading it now.23:13
konttorigood work on getting the browser stable in the past two weeks. It's really working now.23:13
pauliukasHope it doesn't crash as much as opera does.23:13
timelessalterego: it works23:13
alteregotimeless, it'd show those iPhone weiners a thing or two ;)23:13
alteregoSweet.23:13
timelesssetup a scratchbox and pull from garage.maemo.org/svn/browser23:13
alteregotimeless, you're a star, thanks so much :)23:13
timelessjust don't include --disable-xul23:13
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/23:14
alteregoIf I'd known it was _that_ easy ^_^23:14
timelessif you want to browse sources23:14
timelessthat's slightly out of date as i don't updae daily23:14
timelessmy 't' key doesn't work well, i think it's dying from overuse23:14
alteregoWell, I'm stuck working on ruby-maemo right now. I'll bookmark and look into it later. :)23:14
timelessfwiw, i got someone to write a howto for writing microb extensions23:14
timelessi expect it to be posted later this week23:14
alteregoGreat.23:15
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Larisomy osso-statusbar-cpu doesn't appear in the status bar even though i enabled it :(23:17
pupnik_might be a problem with os2007he, sorry Lariso23:17
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Larisoi don't mind editing the menu files to make my own shortcuts but .. well, they don't work23:18
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Larisoit's just a little script to start a vpn up.23:18
pauliukasdamn23:18
pauliukasNot enough memory...23:18
pauliukasI wonder how much it needs.23:18
timelesslariso: the vpnc hing doesn't work for you?23:19
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czrhmm. would be completely impossible to get a periodic ntp sync from dhcp provided ntp-server list?23:19
* czr gets annoyed by clocks that differ too easily23:19
Larisovpnc eh23:19
cesmanTo the "Nokians" in the channel...  How about N8xx fused with the GP2X for the next model?!23:20
Lariso*reading*23:20
cesmanplease put that in the suggestion box ;)23:20
VRe770: MMC, 800: SD: 810: mini/microSD??23:23
timelessvre: yes23:25
timelessnokia = consistency23:25
pauliukasuhhh23:25
flip^well, 800: mmc/sd/variants23:25
pauliukasI installed it but I don't see it anywhere.23:25
pauliukasDoes it need a restart or something23:25
timelessalso note tha the hardware layout for zoom/fullscreen/home/keys has consistently changed for each product23:25
Larisodoes vpnc work with ssh23:25
VReNice, I can use old MMC (which was burned by kernel-bug) in the new one.. not the nice 4GB SD from n800..23:25
timelessthe art work for each button has also changed23:25
timelessvre: you can install os 2008 on your n800 before you can buy an n81023:26
disqanybody know how to monitor a file in sysfs?23:26
VReYeap :)23:26
wumpustimeless: I suppose it's still a bit of an experimental project23:26
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VReVRe: I was thinking dumping the 800 to gf and getting myself the new toy23:26
pauliukasOh... it replaces Opera?23:27
pauliukasDamn. Got an error23:27
timelesswumpus: just a bit?23:27
timelessthe n800 had a radio oto23:27
VReradio is gone?23:27
* timeless insults vre's irc client23:27
timelesspauliukas: yes, opera's gone23:27
pauliukasthat's not good.23:27
pauliukasI'm getting errors.23:27
timelessvre: radio was traded for gps23:28
mgedminVRe: no you can't use an rs-mmc card in a mini-sd slot23:28
timeless(not seriously, but if you want to look a it some way)23:28
pupnik_ could you record off radio?23:28
mgedmin... or can you?23:28
mgedminI'd be surprised23:28
VReMight not work23:28
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VRetimeless: irssi? Something wrong?23:28
juh0does n800 os2008's map application support bluetooth gps receiver?23:28
czrdisq, depends on the file in question really. some support dnotify(), most don't23:28
pauliukasSorry. Too lazy to actually write down the error23:29
pauliukashttp://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8871/photo82bl1.jpg23:29
czrdisq, i.e., depends on whether the driver producing the file actually signals the kernel with changes or not.23:29
timeless<VRe:#maemo> VRe: I was thinking dumping the 800 to gf and getting myself the23:29
disqi think so. dnotify. i'll look that up thanks23:29
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czrdisq, might be inotify too. I always confuse the two :-)23:29
pauliukasIs that something known or do I now officially need to nuke and pave?23:29
czrone is older syscall, one is pretty new23:29
timelessfile; ?23:29
disqyes it's inotify23:29
VRetimeless: probably some wtf8 crap cut the sentence down23:30
timelessvre: file: should always work23:30
czrdisq, what are you trying to monitor?23:30
timelessdisq: so um... what's my status, do i take what i have or should i try to do something else?23:31
disqheadphone jack23:31
_Monkeyheadphone jack is 4 pins actually, one of them is mic.23:31
timelessbump the font size?23:31
disq_Monkey: ooh really?23:31
timeless_monkey forget headphone jack23:31
_Monkeydisq: bugger all, i dunno23:31
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot headphone jack23:31
timeless_monkey headphone jack is <reply>23:31
_MonkeyOK, timeless.23:31
czrdisq, ah, don't know whether it's notified properly. drop me a note if it is.23:31
disqtimeless: your status on what? no activity in our secret channel23:31
VReOk: wishlist for the next device: motions sensors ala wiimote, lightsensor(there is one?), radio, _good_ gps, normal SD slot (for that cheap and available memory), screen that is readable atleast in partial sunlite..23:32
mgedminone month battery life without recharging...23:33
VReBut I think the design-guru & hw-team has already cooked up the next device..23:33
mgedminbuilt-in coffee machine...23:33
VRemgedmin: sounds like emacs23:33
timelessin practice it seems the hardware designers design 2-5 devices in the future, refusing to ever talk to anyone to get feedback23:33
mgedminI wouldn't know, I use vim :-)23:33
Larisoso with a menu shell script: i write a shell script, that runs fine from command line with "sh /root/vpn.sh"23:33
Larisowhat do i put as command in .desktop file to run this?23:34
VRetimeless: I have noticed that before too.. that ought to be changed23:34
timelessthere are lots of things that should be changed23:34
timelessvre: i think you'll find just about everything i'm describing is much less than ideal23:35
VRewe'll that is just a sign that there is more paychecks coming down in the future.. =)23:35
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timelessheh, you're a glass is half full guy23:35
Larisooh ffs23:36
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Larisoi just noticed the top of my script.. #!/bin/bash23:36
timelessoh, that'll work well on our devices :)23:36
pauliukasAlright guys.23:36
VRetimeless: I think the software will start to rock sooner than later - now the same teachings should be applied to other areas aswell23:36
pauliukasHow can I install OS 2007/8/whatever hacker/cracker edition?23:37
timelessthe sofware processes still need a lot of work, but yes, we'd love to see useful innovation wrt hardware design23:37
mgedmingoogle results for os2007he don't seem to point to the official page23:38
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VReI was thinking that the 3rd device could be worth actually buying when I saw 770 - got that more or less right. 3rd gen is usually where the device starts to be stable enough for massmarket23:38
* mgedmin is waiting for a science-fictiony hard resizable screens23:38
Takanybody using xchat plugins on the device?23:39
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Larisook even with #!/bin/bash fixed the ui does nothing when i click23:39
Larisoi assume i'm able to just run a shell script as a command just like a compiled app would23:40
VRebtw, is the date/time dialog/elements as hard to use still with the new maemo as with old (just check gpe..)23:40
czrLariso, you launching it with just the script name or with multiple parts with spaces in between?23:40
Larisojust the script name23:40
czrat least back in 770 days, the desktop file didn't support spaces23:40
Larisohmm23:40
czrno sh in front of it?23:40
Takah, plugin support is disabled :-(23:40
Larisono23:40
mgedminLariso: is the .sh file executable?23:40
LarisoExec=/usr/local/bin/vpn3.sh23:41
Larisoand yeah, 755 i think23:41
czrhmm. add some echos into some file in /tmp/ to see whether the script is run at all23:41
VReczr: and everything had to be installed under some obscure subdirectory..23:41
czrVRe, /var/install infact. was trying to find out the proper new directory to install just today ;-)23:42
czrkind of funny how none of the maemo.org docs actually mentions anything about the proper directiories to install into now.23:42
VReczr: you have been away long..23:42
czrVRe, yes. I tried to get out, and each time they keep on pulling me back in.23:43
VReczr: it's debian defaults.. ./configure --prefix=/usr23:43
czrVRe, well. I know now.23:43
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Larisodoes a service need to be restarted whenever i change a desktop file or will it take effect immediately23:44
t_s_ohmm, maybe i should just regard my wsod 770 as a expensive paper weight and look for a price drop on the N800 now that the N810 is out?23:44
VReThe new menu seems to be quite big by looking the pics, I hope it'll handle nice those 40 programs I have installed so I don't need to scroll around23:44
czrbtw, any nokians want to hint what should I call the application installer component in bora? Application Installer, Application Manager, or Application manager? the docs are contradictory23:44
mgedminthe n810 won't be sold before november, but otoh there already was a n800 price drop23:44
timelesseh?23:44
timelessApplication manager23:44
_Monkeywell, Application manager is maemo's GUI over apt23:44
timelessbut what do you mean call?23:45
czrrefer to. in text.23:45
timelessexactly as i wrote23:45
timelessnote the lowercase m23:45
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czrI did note :-)23:45
t_s_owell i have yet to see the local web shops that carry the N800 display any kind of price drop...23:45
czrthanks23:45
timelessand i blame roope and the rest of Nokia style for the insane spelling/case23:45
* timeless washes hands23:45
czrtimeless, there are still some docs which use Application Installer too.23:45
czr3.2 ones.23:45
timelessczr: file bugs23:46
timeless(seriously)23:46
timelessi mean, there's no harm23:46
timelesshttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40000023:46
* timeless filed that one23:46
czrI'm collecting a list of stuff in the various docs and will submit that.. via.. other channels. detest using bugzilla for each small bug23:46
timelesssure it's a dupe, not my fault, that's life23:46
czrnice number :-)23:47
timelessthanks :)23:47
Larisoooh it is running the script23:47
timelessi was supposed to be 399998, i messed up the math and the bug i wanted was 400002 :(23:47
Lariso"/tmp/foobar" exists23:47
pauliukas"The same way it works in 2007, it integrates with the system /usr/bin/browser, you can still switch back to Opera (8.0 in the case of 2006, instead of 8.5 on 2007) at any time." How?23:47
czrtimeless, 400k is so much more.. convenient to remember :-)23:48
timelesspauliukas: when it works, there's a set engine menu23:48
timelesswhen it doesn't work, you can edit ~/.browser and fix hidden=123:48
timelessand then run the browser to see the menu23:48
pauliukasSee, that's the problem it doesn't23:48
timeless(won't do anything useful if you use os2008)23:48
pauliukasAnd I uninstalled it.23:48
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timelessquit the browser23:48
pauliukasokay.23:48
timelesspull out sed/perl, fix ~/.browser to have hidden=123:49
timelessinstall microb again23:49
timelessthe logic behind that magic is beyond me23:49
* czr wishes bugs like this would exist: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211423:49
pauliukasBut it will probably give me the same error.23:49
czrwouldn't even.23:49
pauliukashttp://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8871/photo82bl1.jpg23:49
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Larisoit works!! :D23:50
czrLariso, yay23:50
timelesspauliukas: load "about:"23:50
timelesswhat does it say?23:50
Larisoi think it needed to run itself as root23:50
pauliukasTwo seconds. Reinstalling it right now as you recommended.23:50
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Larisoso now i can browse my upnp server from remote vpn23:51
Larisonow if i could only get my video transcoder working properly..23:52
timelessczr: post a patch?23:53
czryou serious? :-)23:54
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czrit's a 3 character fix :-)23:54
timelessczr: typos happen23:54
timelesspatches are unambiguous23:55
czrwell, it's not going to be fixed for chinook23:55
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czrthat much I know23:55
m-voczr, it will probably take you more text to describe the change than the patch will take.23:55
timelessplus, people should learn o query for patches23:55
* czr sighs23:55
timeless(and to post them)23:55
* sp3000 filed and patched that already23:55
timelessheh23:55
timelesshi sp300023:56
m-voczr, what's it about, AppLiCation ManAger naming?23:56
czrm-vo, run-standalone.sh bug23:56
m-voOh, right, I just looked at it. The mere existence of run-standalone.sh is a bug.23:56
czrone could extend that thought to cover a lot of other stuff as well..23:57
pauliukastimeless: The error is looping non-stop.23:57
pauliukasNo way to enter in aboit:23:57
pauliukas*about23:57
timelesspauliukas: kill -9 browser23:57
timelessopen a terminal23:57
timeless/usr/bin/browser --url=about:23:58
pauliukaslet me SSH in.23:58
pauliukas2 sec.23:58
timeless/usr/bin/browser --url=about: --engine=microb23:58
timeless/usr/bin/browser --url=about: --engine=opera23:58
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pauliukasOkay...23:58
pauliukasIt loaded the about page.23:58
pauliukasWhat am I looking in it?23:59
timelessi dunno, is it opera or microb? :)23:59
pauliukasDidn't the about thing specify the engine?23:59
timelessabout: doesn't23:59
pauliukasoh I see.23:59
timeless--engine does, i don't know which you used23:59
pauliukasMicroB.23:59
_Monkeymicrob is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)23:59

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