IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2007-08-29

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pupnik_oh yeah ... NeoStrider uname -m will give you cpu info, but uname -p says 'unknown'00:01
NeoStrider320! =-O00:01
NeoStrideri mean from a C app00:01
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pupnik_there should be a way to see /proc/cpuinfo from c00:02
NeoStrider(other than reading a file, of course ;-) )00:03
timelyxfopen :)00:03
pupnik_you have 770 - that's good.  Once it runs fast on a 770 it will run fast on a N80000:04
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NeoStrideryeah...it runs great in a N800 , from what I heard00:05
NeoStriderbut i was a long time ago00:05
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NeoStriderso I dont know about the newest release00:06
pupnik_when i first saw my friend's 3d engine i thought 'this is never going to work fast enough' but he got it running on a p200:07
timelyxhrm00:09
timelyxlle2: ping00:09
erstazithe serial in /proc/cpuinfo is the same serial as on the label right00:10
erstazi?00:10
timelyxwhat label?00:12
timelyxi have what looks like an n800, but the serial in cpuinfo doesn't seem likely00:13
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NeoStridermy serial doesnt match the label, I guess00:16
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pskrtimelyx: I tried dpkg-buildpackage, but got these errors. http://pastebin.com/m67d6c34900:18
timelyxso whose libidl did you install, and which version, and how?00:19
timelyxyou do need *someone's*00:19
pskri re-installed thru aptitude install libidl-dev. I did the same for quilt, bc00:20
timelyxwhat version?00:20
timelyxand pastebin what it provides00:20
pskrIf I try the same within scratchbox, it is cribbing.00:21
pskrOK00:21
timelyxdpkg -L or -l or something00:21
timelyxi'm confused00:21
timelyxwhere precisely arey ou doing this aptitude stuff00:21
timelyxon the host or in scratchbox?00:21
timelyxyou can't do it on host if you expect things to work00:21
pskron the host00:21
timelyxyou can run aptitude in the scratchbox if you're so inclined00:21
pskrOK. but in scratchbox it is failing.00:21
timelyxarg00:22
timelyxwhat's wrong w/ the svn libidl i pointed to?00:22
timelyxit's part of the microb sources00:22
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pskrhow can I use that? [sorry I seem dumb]00:25
timelyxit's another deb source directory00:26
timelyxyou buildpackage in it the same way you build package in microb-engine00:26
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prodigel2Hi. I believe I'm on the wrong channel, but it's the closest one to what I search: discussions on nokia menus, particularry voice commands, and possible customisation. Are you aware of channels that could help me?00:29
pskrtimelyx: so should I download the directory you pointed me to? I did apt-get source libidl-dev, but it fails.00:29
timelyxerr00:29
timelyxwhat did you svn checkout?00:29
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pskrOK OK. so you are saying do buildpackage in SVN's libidl. i will try that00:30
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NeoStridercya folks00:32
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pskrtimelyx: http://pastebin.com/me6130ba shows the things I tried and the error I am getting.00:36
timelyxyn00:37
timelyxapt-get install flex00:37
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pskrE: Couldn't find package flex00:40
pskr. :-( Should I try it in host? I searched at the URL u sent, no flex there.00:40
timelyxnot in host00:42
timelyxgo find a debsrc for it00:42
pskrOK00:42
timelyxand build it in scratchbox00:42
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timelyxpretend you don't have a host00:42
pskrWill do. thanks.00:42
timelyxit'll make your life much simpler00:42
timelyxand given that it's 1am and i have a vacation to plan ...00:42
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pupnik_i found flex somewhere00:45
GsHi from n77000:45
mvhtes1Anyone able to view this page in micro-b on N800 and confirm if drag scrolling works - it seems stuck in text select mode here: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_2691913,00.html00:45
timelyxmvhtes1: did you disable flash?00:46
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pskrpupnik_: do you remember where?00:46
timelyxor Milhous1, whichever00:46
Milhous1Flash is enabled00:47
Milhous1Drag scroll works for pages on other sites00:47
pupnik_pksr it's in one of my repositories - some guy built it - want a PM?00:47
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GsMilhous1,  how to!!00:47
timelyxMilhous1: so disable it00:48
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Milhous1Just wanted confirmation before filing a bug, could be something wierd going on with that site00:48
timelyxdon't file a bug before disabling flash00:48
Milhous1OK hang on00:48
timelyxok people, you're all losing canconfirm NNOW00:48
pskrpupnik: PM == personal mail?00:49
timelyxprivate messagfe00:49
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pskrpupnik: Sure. thanks.00:49
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pupnikpm sent - it is in one of those repositories00:50
GS_i can install flash on 770 version 8?00:50
Milhous1timeless: disabling Flash made no difference00:50
timelyxMilhous1: ok00:50
timelyxbe sure to note that when you file ...00:50
* timelyx goes back to the site00:50
Milhous1Timeless: Is it the same for you?00:51
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GS_what is yours group?00:51
timelyxGs: huh?00:51
GS_maemotube?00:52
timelyxthere is no flash 8 for any maemo platform00:52
GS_group fot develop flash...?00:52
timelyxanyone who buys a nokia n800 can install flash 9 on microb on a 770 running the latest os for it...00:52
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pupnikdo sites require flash9?  my old flash sites do not00:53
milhouseback at the desktop now... can't face filing a bug from the n800 itself :)00:53
timelyxmilhouse: bah00:53
timelyxi did a major portion of the bugs.maemo.org reorg from my n80000:53
milhousemy wrist hurts after a while on the sofa lying on my back with the n800 in the air :)00:53
timelyxmilhouse: is this the left or right column?00:53
timelyxthe right column has lots of iframes (or something like them)00:54
milhouseif i drag the text to scroll the page it just selects the text00:54
milhousein the left column00:54
milhousethe main story00:54
GS_timelyx, from http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/6/ ?00:54
timelyxgs: i wrote that article, yes00:54
GS_;) sure00:54
GS_you are timeless ?00:55
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timelyxyes00:55
timelyxand timelE61i00:55
_Monkeyi guess timelE61i is well, your phone or timeless using a nokia e61i (blueberry)00:55
timelyx_Monkey, me?00:56
_Monkeysomebody said timelyx was your mac, it has scrollback00:56
GS_om ;)00:56
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timelyxmilhouse: that page is heavy00:56
timelyxdid you wait for it to finish loading?00:56
milhouseyep00:56
timelyxplease also try w/ js disabled :)00:57
milhousedidn't think it was that bad - i've seen worse00:57
milhouseok, will try that now00:57
timelyxyou're not using my cell phone00:57
timelyxmy wifi router decided i didn't need to know the password00:57
timelyxso i can't use wifi from here :)00:57
timelyxok, that page crashed my browser00:57
milhousedisabling js seems to have fixed it now - it drag scrolls00:57
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timelyxok. well, um00:58
milhousere-enabling and reloading...00:58
timelyxanyway, if you do file this bug, let's make an example out of it00:58
timelyxi.e. in your description, note that you encountered the problem, you tried disabling flash, the problem still happened00:58
timelyxyou tried disabling javascript, the problem went away00:59
milhouseyep, js is the key00:59
milhouseum ok - don't shoot me though :)00:59
timelyxthe next step of course, ideally is to save the page and cut out pieces of content00:59
timelyxyou can try literally cutting the html file in half00:59
timelyxuntil the problem goes away/comes back00:59
milhousethey must be doing something silly with the dom?00:59
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timelyxthey could be00:59
timelyxanyway, ideally for problems like this, you end up w/ a single html file w/ < 50 lines01:00
timelyxand at most 1 js file w/ < 50 lines01:00
milhousei'll have a go, but it could be legitimate (ie. not a bug) if the site is doing something stupid01:00
timelyxi'm perfectly fine w/ you attaching files to bugs.maemo as you go reducing the problem01:00
timelyxyeah01:00
timelyxi don't really mind01:00
timelyxas long as you show people how to analyze such bugs01:01
timelyxit's a win01:01
milhouselet me see what's in the page...01:01
GS_microb work fine on 770?01:01
timelyxgs: it requires a newer version of the os than i run on my  770 :(01:01
timelyxand i haven't spent the time to fight the dependencies01:01
GS_ouch01:02
timelyxi did it for 3.2007, but i don't really see much point in dealing w/ 2.200601:02
pskrpupnik: it was in  http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free flex 2.5.31-31osso1 [274kB] [if you care]01:02
timelyxi might as well consider installing 2007he01:02
pupnikhow did you find which repo contained it pskr?01:02
GS_i'm downloading microb on OS06 77001:03
GS_7,62M01:04
pskrpupnik: I added what you sent me to sources.list, apt-get update, apt-get install flex. the output showed the repo.01:05
pupnikah ok thx01:05
timelyxpupnik: you should be able to use apt-cache policy or something01:05
pupnikapt-cache show or policy gives a hint but not the repo - just the dir01:06
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pupnikflex?01:07
_Monkeyflex is (for 770) echo " http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free flex" >> /etc/apt/sources list && apt-get update && apt-get install flex01:07
sp3000apt-cache showpkg gives you the /var/lib/apt/lists/ file that a version is found in, which ironically indicates more of the repo path01:07
sp3000(along with a load of other cruft)01:07
pupnikthanks sp300001:08
timelyxsp3000; which reminds me01:08
milhousethat sky spage is a nigthmare to debug... most of the js has had the newlines stripped and some js is pulled in dynamically... eugh01:10
GS_i installed microb but what is the exe?01:11
timelyxgs: the globe01:11
GS_om01:11
milhousethey mess with some window events but the code has been obfuscated01:11
timelyxmilhouse: yeah well01:12
timelyxmilhouse: got a C compiler?01:12
milhousei'm guessing this isn't strictly a bug, just a whacky web site01:12
milhousesadly, no01:12
timelyxhrm01:13
timelyxthis /might/ work01:13
timelyxtry it:01:13
timelyxat the beginning of one of the js files, add:01:13
timelyxfunction z() {01:13
timelyxat the very end, add:01:13
timelyx}01:13
timelyxmake an html file:01:13
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timelyx<html><script src="evil.js"></script><script>window.location="data:text/plain,"+z;</script>01:14
timelyxthat should give you something slightly less obfuscated01:15
milhouseok, i'll have a go - thanks01:15
timelyxyou can then copy out individual functions and try to get the same process to clean them up01:15
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milhousewill it convert function name "aq" into something more meaningful? ;)01:15
timelyxsorry01:16
milhouseonly kidding01:16
timelyxmostly it'll reinflate the code ... adding whitespace01:16
milhousethis is great... function names _A, _B, _C, _D... it's only a freaking sports news site01:16
milhousewhat are they worried about01:16
timelyxit might be java01:16
timelyxie gwt01:17
milhousecould be - says it's copyright WEBSIDESTORY INC.01:17
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timelyxbut seriously, you can start by literally wiping out entire js files01:17
timelyxyou shouldn't need to have to reverse engineer the whole thing01:17
DaniloCesar_Monkey, see Tony Maro01:17
_MonkeyDaniloCesar: excuse me?01:17
milhousethough that's just one example out of about about 15 different js files01:17
DaniloCesar_Monkey, see Tony Maro ?01:17
_Monkeydanilocesar: no idea01:17
timelyxsp3000: you have grant(editbugs)01:18
DaniloCesar_Monkey, Tony Maro01:18
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_MonkeyDaniloCesar: sorry...01:18
timelyxif people get stuck, give it out as appropriate01:18
sp3000k01:18
GS_"Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv5tejl; es-ES; rv:1.9a6pre) Gecko/20070810 Firefox/3.0a1 Maemo browser 0.4.34 N770/SU-18" "-"01:18
GS_cool ;)01:18
timelyxspanish?01:19
GS_yes01:19
timelyxactually01:19
timelyxthat's uncool01:19
timelyxthe nokia tableteer site won't like y ou01:19
GS_yes it0s crash01:19
timelyxeven if we do get them to fix microb support for n80001:19
GS_om01:20
* timelyx sighs01:20
timelyxsp3000: remind me today to yell at them? :(01:20
sp3000tableteer?01:20
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timelyxyeah01:22
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TomCreerI want a SIP softphone for my 770 :(01:28
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milhousetimeless: this seems to be the problem - http://pastebin.ca/67410601:43
timelE61isorry, sleepy time01:44
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milhouseok np... will work on a very simplified case some more01:46
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pskrtimelyx: build seems to be complete. but with lots of scary warnings. How can I check if the build is successful? Should I do /microb-engine-1.0.3/build-tree/obj-edyn-arm-sb-buildgtk2/dist/bin/run_mozilla.sh?01:50
pskras I built for SDK_ARMEL, will it work on pc (debian) or do I need to build again for SDK_X86?01:50
milhousetimeless: yep, not a bug in micro-b... the web page is subverting the mouse. self contained test page here http://217.155.26.150/public/pda/sky/index.html01:51
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ekim\770Hey , has anyone gotten  an alternate window manager working on the 770 ?02:06
NeoStriderwould love to see that02:07
NeoStriderI saw some videos of kde , blackbox and window maker running02:07
NeoStriderbut it was far too complicated to make02:07
ekim\770b..b.blackbox02:08
ekim\770thats my favorite wm02:08
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ekim\770Does anyone know how to make Maemo xchat go fullscreen02:08
GeneralAntillesFullscreen button doesn't work?02:09
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ekim\770no02:09
GeneralAntillesThen I don't have a clue. ;)02:09
GeneralAntillesWorks on my N80002:09
GeneralAntillesDon't recall which of the two ports I'm using02:09
ekim\770damn02:09
GeneralAntilles"the one that worked"02:09
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ekim\770there is more than one port02:10
GeneralAntillesYes.02:10
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/02:10
GeneralAntillesI _think_ that's the one I have02:10
GeneralAntillesDon't recall where the other one is.02:10
ekim\770are they both  called the same thing02:10
GeneralAntillesYeah, Xchat :/02:12
GeneralAntillesI suspect al little googling will turn up something02:12
GeneralAntillesThe BAD one points to the good one on its website.02:12
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ekim\770hmm02:13
ekim\770is that link the good one02:13
erstazixchat?02:14
_Monkeyhmmm... xchat is a gtk-based IRC client.  http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/02:14
erstaziI was talking to monkey btw02:14
erstaziekim\770: you have the one that cannot do full screen? there is an Xchat that can go full screen02:15
ekim\770I think that is the one I am using02:15
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ekim\770where do i get this "good" one02:15
erstaziekim\770: looking02:15
erstaziI had it before02:15
erstazifound it02:16
erstaziekim\770: http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/maemo/02:16
ekim\770I have  a 77002:16
ekim\770will it work on os 200602:17
trevarthanugh. my server had a ram failure a half hour after I left for work this morning.02:17
trevarthanDidn't get it fixed until just now (got home). ugh.02:17
erstaziekim\770: I have the same as you (:02:17
ekim\770What's your website?02:17
trevarthankagu?02:17
_Monkeywell, kagu is http://maemo.org/downloads/product/kagu02:17
trevarthanah. https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/wiki02:18
ekim\770you made kagu02:18
ekim\770nice02:18
erstaziekim\770: trevarthan is the one02:18
erstaziI tried to help with the theme but unique311 finished it02:18
erstaziI became to busy to help with it in the end02:18
trevarthanyou should make us a new one. :)02:18
erstazisorry, trevarthan for letting you down before02:18
erstazihaha02:18
ekim\770you think you can add podcasting :)02:19
erstazitrevarthan: is positioning important in a theme for kagu?02:19
ekim\770and UPnP02:19
erstaziI never did a theme for Hildon let alone GNOME02:19
trevarthanekim\770: I can, but I've got lots to do before then. You could add it if you know how to code. It's a community project.02:19
* pupnik cracks the whip... snes emulator!02:19
erstazipupnik: heh02:20
trevarthanerstazi: it is right now. we can/plan to change that though.02:20
ekim\770is it written in c?02:20
trevarthanerstazi: kagu isn't gnome. It's SDL.02:20
trevarthanekim\770: nope, python.02:20
ekim\770ohh02:20
erstazitrevarthan: well, not to take your time, but when you are not busy, just send me the information about it, like co-ordinances and what not02:20
ekim\770I can help then02:20
ekim\770yay02:20
trevarthan:) double yay!02:20
erstazitrevarthan: well, I meant hildonizing but I forgot Karu doesn't follow it... SDL... I will have to read up on that02:20
trevarthanwelcome aboard.02:21
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ekim\770ill hack around with it this weekend02:21
ekim\770don't get too excited02:21
erstazitrevarthan: the only python I have done was for server-side (:02:21
ekim\770I am a python noob02:21
trevarthanerstazi: just take a look at the current theme's psd file: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/browser/trunk/data/resources/sprites.psd02:21
trevarthan(click the download link)02:21
erstazitrevarthan: on it02:21
ekim\770but its the  best langage I know02:22
trevarthanekim\770: python is easy to pick up. yeah. I'm a fan too.02:22
erstaziekim\770: its a very good language02:22
ekim\770totally02:22
erstazifor server-side it is very promising02:22
ekim\770my favorite02:22
erstazitrevarthan: you guys are using svn? I am glad you are02:22
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trevarthanekim\770: I puke my little programmer's guts out every time I go to work in the morning and have to write PHP instead of Python. :(02:23
trevarthanerstazi: yeah. Big fan of SVN for small projects. And Trac.02:23
erstazitrevarthan: well, I use php myself for my work... it can be a pain, less object orientated (way less than python) but if you know the security holes, you can work *some* magic out of it02:23
erstazibut against asp vs php, any day php02:23
ekim\770I like to use bzr02:24
erstazibzr is nice as well02:24
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trevarthanI've used asp and asp.net and php and python. Python, then PHP, then ASP.NET, then classic asp, in order of preference.02:26
trevarthanI do some Perl too, but only when I have to.02:27
ekim\770man, I wish I could go fullscreen02:27
ekim\770this is bugging me02:27
trevarthanwhy can't you?02:27
trevarthanwhich app?02:27
ekim\770xchat02:27
trevarthanhmmm... goes fullscreen here....02:28
ekim\770really02:28
trevarthanyeah. just tested it.02:29
trevarthanyou on an n800?02:29
ekim\77077002:29
trevarthanoh.02:29
trevarthanthat probably has something to do with it. :(02:29
ekim\770I could not afford sn n80002:29
ekim\770:)02:29
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trevarthanyeah, they certainly aren't cheap.02:30
trevarthancost as much as four sticks of the ram I just lost. :)02:30
ekim\770What did you buy it for02:30
trevarthanthe ram?02:31
_Monkeythe ram is a big difference just in terms of the number of things you can open up at once.02:31
ekim\770I think its  a cool security tool02:31
trevarthanoh. the n800?02:31
_Monkeythe n800 is much better than a desk phone :-)02:31
trevarthanSHUT UP MONKEY!02:31
trevarthanstupid bot.02:31
ekim\770nmap,kismet,metasploit,aircrack02:31
ekim\770:)02:31
trevarthanweb browsing, chat, a2dp, kagu, SSH. that's my reasons02:32
trevarthanin no particular order02:32
ekim\770yeah , what did you buy it for?02:32
milhousestop abusing monkey! :)02:32
trevarthansee above02:32
ekim\770a2dp02:32
ekim\770sounds familiar02:32
trevarthanmilhouse: put that heap of junk into "speak when spoken to" mode.02:33
milhousei think it is...02:33
milhousemaybe02:33
milhousewell i could02:33
trevarthanI think not02:33
milhouseas i guess it's not02:33
ekim\770what is  a2dp02:33
_Monkeyi think a2dp is available for N800 with installation instructions here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8435 or if you want a nice frontend GUI for a2dp after following the instructions on that page, ask trevarthan or disq about Kagu02:33
ekim\770nice02:33
milhouseif i put him speak-when-spoken-to mode that wouldn't have happened :)02:33
milhousehim in02:33
trevarthanyeah yeah. point taken.02:34
ekim\770I still don't know what it is02:34
milhousetrevarthan can explain :)02:34
trevarthanmilhouse: is there a "learn when spoken to" mode?02:34
milhousethe link that monkey just gave you allows you to install a2dp without too much trouble02:34
* ekim\770 is listening02:34
trevarthana2dp is also bluetooth stereo audio.02:34
_Monkeyokay, trevarthan.02:34
trevarthanwhat is a2dp?02:34
milhouseumm... i think there's 3 modes - required, optional and something else02:34
_Monkeysomebody said a2dp was available for N800 with installation instructions here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8435 or if you want a nice frontend GUI for a2dp after following the instructions on that page, ask trevarthan or disq about Kagu or bluetooth stereo audio.02:34
ekim\770but what IS it02:35
milhouseadvanced audio d-something profile02:35
trevarthandamn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2DP02:35
erstazitrevarthan: don't harass _Monkey, I feed it banana chips at night...02:35
erstaziand buffalo chips but don't tell milhouse....02:35
erstazioh hi milhouse02:35
* trevarthan sulks02:35
ekim\770I still don't know02:36
ekim\770what does it do02:36
erstaziekim\770: sucks the brains out of you02:36
trevarthantrevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse _Monkey.02:36
trevarthantrevarthan?02:36
_Monkeyi heard trevarthan was guardiani. It's trevarthan's last name.02:36
milhousetrevarthan - no, there's only two modes: required and optional. it's currently set to optional. no learning mode.02:36
trevarthanforget trevarthan02:36
_Monkeytrevarthan: I forgot trevarthan02:36
straindSpeaking of "listening", is anyone using Kismet and flite and noticing that flite talks over itself even if there's only one network?02:36
milhousehi erstazi02:36
trevarthantrevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse _Monkey.02:36
ekim\770why would anyone use that !!02:36
straindbbl02:36
trevarthantrevarthan?02:36
_Monkeyit has been said that trevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse _Monkey.02:36
trevarthanforget trevarthan02:36
_Monkeytrevarthan: I forgot trevarthan02:36
trevarthantrevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse _Monkey02:37
trevarthantrevarthan?02:37
_Monkeywell, trevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse _Monkey02:37
trevarthanforget trevarthan02:37
_Monkeytrevarthan: I forgot trevarthan02:37
milhousedamn, monkey's going to have to go on the treadmill02:37
trevarthantrevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse me02:37
trevarthantrevarthan?02:37
_Monkeytrevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse me02:37
trevarthanthere we go02:37
ekim\770fine ... then don't tell me02:37
erstazimilhouse: just playing with ya, how are you?02:37
erstaziekim\770: A2DP?02:37
_Monkeyhmmm... A2DP is available for N800 with installation instructions here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8435 or if you want a nice frontend GUI for a2dp after following the instructions on that page, ask trevarthan or disq about Kagu or bluetooth stereo audio.02:37
pskrtimelyx: my PC crashed.02:37
trevarthanekim\770: it's handy. the cords on your earbuds never get on your nerves?02:37
pskrtimelyx: I asked if you knew how to verify if my microb build was successful.02:38
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milhouseerstazi: i'm good thanks02:39
trevarthanevery time I type \770 I feel like I'm escaping a hex number or something.02:39
trevarthanIt's disconcerting.02:39
milhousetrevarthan - did you see the a2dp bug has changed? apparently the current bluez stack now supports a2dp, funded by nokia...02:40
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milhousebug 47402:40
_MonkeyBug 474 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47402:40
ekim\770ok guys , i'll be back in a bit02:41
ekim\770later02:41
milhousenot sure if that means it's more efficient than the version we've been using on your site, or if it's the same thing02:41
trevarthanmilhouse: I heard about that. I'll be extremely happy if they put a2dp in the base maemo OS.02:41
milhousei think that's a must, tbh02:42
trevarthanI guess we'll have to wait for a firmware or two to find out.02:42
trevarthanthey need SCO in there too. (think gtalk or SIP via a headset)02:42
milhouseyep... looks like that might be available too according to this news page http://www.bluez.org/news.html02:43
trevarthanbesides, a2dpd sucks. it's kinda unreliable.02:43
trevarthannice02:44
trevarthan"auto create"02:44
trevarthanpure genious. :)02:44
milhousewant. now. :)02:44
trevarthanditto02:44
milhouseanyone from Nokia: happy to be a guinea pig02:44
lle2timelE61i: pong?02:44
trevarthanso, I wonder if this is like, a month away? A year away? Three?02:45
gomiamstupid question: can scratchbox be compiled on Cygwin?02:45
milhousewho knows... somethings appear out of nowhere, other things are talked about but don't appear for months02:45
trevarthancause if it's a year away, then we could still use a .deb for your a2dp scripts and a control panel applet, milhouse.02:45
lle2maybe02:45
trevarthanNokia should make it's release schedules public for bugs like that02:46
milhousei would guess this is coming in the next firmware release... or maybe chinook if the next firmware release isn't maemo 4.0/chinook02:46
milhousei agree, a tentative date wouldn't do any harm02:46
pskranybody know how to verify microb build is successful (I built it from source using dpkg apt-bldpackage)02:46
milhousebut... this is nokia02:46
trevarthanthey could release a new bluez at any time, but still not integrate a2dp or sco with the OS.02:47
milhousefingers crossed they trial a beta package02:47
milhouseof the bluez changes02:47
milhouseassuming it's possible, and adds value02:47
trevarthanif they did it that way, they could take their time integrating it with the OS and we could release a new Kagu to utilize the new bluez. best of both worlds.02:48
milhouseabsolutely02:49
milhousebet it won't happen though :)02:49
lle2I'm having trouble parsing what you guys are really looking for02:50
trevarthandunno. anything could happen at this point. depends on how backed up with other stuff they are.02:50
milhousethe bluez guys certainly have been busy the last few months... i wonder if that's due to nokias involvement?02:50
trevarthanprobably02:51
trevarthana2dp and sco will actually drive sales a bit for them. not much, but a bit.02:51
trevarthanKagu isn't enough for that. They have to say it's built in.02:51
lle2you want a new kernel for the tablet, with updated bluetooth stuff?02:51
trevarthannah, just a new bluez deb.02:52
trevarthanif it takes a new kernel, then a new kernel.02:52
milhousetrevarthan: the lack of a2dp and sco is a bit of a hole nowadays, as apple have discovered... people know about it, and want it.02:52
trevarthanyeah. totally agree.02:53
trevarthancars will probably ship with a2dp soon, if they don't already.02:53
trevarthanlle2: I thought you were a bot at first. :) most people don't say "parse" in a sentence.02:54
lle2trevarthan: some people do after whiskey tasting02:54
trevarthanalbiet with a bit of a slur?02:54
lle2a bit02:54
trevarthanperhaps that's why you were having trouble parsing our conversation? :)02:55
lle2also a distinct possibility02:55
trevarthanI still think you're a bot. Very bot-like answers.02:55
trevarthanI'm just kidding. :)02:56
lle2I'm just curious why not build your own bluez stuff? run it with the very latest public kernel and you couldn't have anything more up to date02:56
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trevarthanmostly because I'm lazy, and we've already got a2dp support in a less advanced form.02:57
lle2you'll lack wlan, but that's to be expected02:57
lle2that's a valid reason02:57
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trevarthanI might test it out on my desktop though. gentoo is good for stuff like that.02:58
lle2gentoo is not good for anything, imho. It wasted many hours of my life for no good reason.02:59
trevarthanthere's that too. :)02:59
trevarthanI come from FreeBSD, many years ago, so I'm used to it, I guess.03:00
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lle2too bad I don't have any idea what distro would be any good, so debian it is for me.03:00
trevarthanI like maemo and fedora core. Not a big fan of debian, but I might like ubunto.03:02
trevarthans/ubunto/ubuntu/03:02
infobottrevarthan meant: I like maemo and fedora core. Not a big fan of debian, but I might like ubuntu.03:02
lle2there was once a thing called ossi, way better than maemo. unfortunately it got overrun by a stampede of debian madness03:04
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lle2pretty close conceptually to being openembedded but using scratchbox to solve the cross-compilation business03:05
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* pupnik also wasted many hours on gentoo, but it was somewhat educational03:06
erstazitrevarthan: Ubuntu is alright03:06
erstazipupnik: that is what gentoo is! heh, educational03:06
erstazille2: what type of whiskey?03:07
pupnikthe name ubuntu bothers me03:07
erstazipupnik: heh03:08
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lle2erstazi: the better part of Islay, pretty good stuff03:09
trevarthanyup, gentoo very educational. I still use it on my server and my desktop though. probably will until I can no longer upgrade critical stuff without installing 4^10 deps too.03:09
trevarthanit's already survived 2 fedora core revisions without a reinstall, and my packages are still rather current, so I've got no reason to change OSes.03:10
erstazille2: aye03:10
trevarthanI'd probably switch if they made a maemo server OS though. :)03:11
erstazitrevarthan: heh03:11
milhousei switched from suse 10 server to ubuntu recently... suse was a pain in the arse at times03:11
lle2debian is good, I don't expect it to be perfect and it mostly doesn't get in my way too bad03:12
erstazimilhouse: which ubuntu version do you run for server?03:12
milhouseubuntu on the other hand... thumbs up :)03:12
milhousefeisty fawn03:12
milhouseit's actually the desktop version - the ubuntu server has no x :)03:12
lle2ubuntu on the other hand wants to be perfect and fails, thus I don't like it that much03:12
erstazimilhouse: yeah, I used feisty fawn on a few developmental servers... its alright, some issues here and there with upgrades03:12
erstazimilhouse: thats what I thought you replaced suse10 server with03:12
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milhousei want both a workstation and something to run "server" type apps (apache, squid etc.)03:13
erstazille2: yeah, its no way perfect but decent for the new user to linux03:13
erstaziso far, I have kept using CentOS for my server03:13
erstazithey aim to be 100% binary compatible with red hat03:13
milhouseerstazi - no i switched from suse 10 server to ubuntu desktop... i did a trial install of ubuntu server only to discover it had no x server :)03:13
erstazimilhouse: ah03:13
erstazidapper is nice, LTS!03:14
erstaziI would like to do some testing on Debian etch, haven't had the time to do so03:14
lle2etch is brilliant03:14
milhousei like ubuntu because getting it to work with a modern graphics driver is a damned sight easier than suse... with suse you have to recompile the kernel yourself etc. which was a pain i could do without03:14
erstazimilhouse: thats true03:15
rhysZenwalk03:15
milhouses/driver/card/03:15
infobotmilhouse meant: i like ubuntu because getting it to work with a modern graphics card is a damned sight easier than suse... with suse you have to recompile the kernel yourself etc. which was a pain i could do without03:15
rhysArch03:15
erstazille2: I might set some servers up to test it03:15
milhousebaryl/compiz is nice... compiz fusion should be better in the next gibbon release03:15
lle2erstazi: last four installs I've done latest ubuntu failed totally on every one, etch just worked03:15
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lle2well, just worked being according to what I expect from debian03:16
erstazimilhouse: I don't care for those, I would just live with XFCE if I had to03:16
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milhousei'm running some _really_ old crap (Tyan server motherboard with a pair of Slot 1 Pentium 3s...) which may explain why it worked without any problems (didn't like the built in sound card though - but then neither did SuSE)03:17
erstaziwith GNOME, there are a few things I despise, changing the foreground color of a font in the panel requires me to go into a conf and change it... where as KDE or another DE, its a simple GUI change03:17
erstaziif you like bling bling DE's, try Enlightenment... its very flashy compared to default KDE even03:18
milhouseerstazi: I like a bit of bling... :) but it does chug a bit on my kit - the graphics card is an old GF203:18
erstazimilhouse: try elive's live cd sometime then03:18
erstaziits debian based as well03:18
milhousei'll give it a go - what's the url? elive.org?03:18
erstazimmm let me check03:19
milhousenope, elive.org looks like a shop of some sort...03:19
erstazihttp://elivecd.org03:19
milhouseelivecd.org maybe03:19
erstazisorry03:19
lle2so far I've not seen anything that would beat windowmaker for me03:19
milhousenp  - i'll download it now and try it later in the week. thanks.03:19
milhousehang on... is it free?03:20
erstaziof course03:20
erstaziits debian based03:20
milhousehmmm... it's taking me to paypal03:20
erstazino way!03:20
milhousesomething about a donation... looks like i need to read the page :)03:21
lle2money for nothing, bits for free03:21
erstazimilhouse: try the developmental version03:21
milhouseyeah, looks like the development version is free but the stable version requires a small donation03:22
milhousedevelopment version for me then... :)03:22
erstazimilhouse: heh03:22
erstazimilhouse: I have tried a virtual machine of it, there are ways of making an ISO of that, but I find that against the philosophy03:23
milhouseis the development iso a live cd?03:25
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erstazimilhouse: I think, like I said, I only test in virtual machines... livecd's use up my cd and dvd's for backups (:03:42
erstazimilhouse: I have a few livecd's I use for installs03:42
erstazibut those are kept safely from damage03:43
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milhouseerstazi: i've got an old machine i can try it in first03:47
milhouseand if that checks out, should monkey go "off the air" you'll know why... :)03:47
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erstazimilhouse: not _Monkey!03:53
erstaziheh03:53
milhouseit will only be temporary :)03:54
erstaziheh03:54
trevarthangstreamer is a smoking pile of cow poo.04:06
trevarthangstreamer?04:06
_Monkeywell, gstreamer is a smoking pile of cow poo.04:06
trevarthannice.04:06
trevarthangoodmonkey.04:06
_Monkeygoodmonkey is a good _Monkey who gets a biscuit.04:06
milhousewhat have they done to you monkey... i had such high hopes for you... now, gone. :(04:07
milhousesob04:07
milhouse_monkey status04:08
_MonkeySince Sun Aug 26 16:20:02 2007, there have been 243 modifications and 55 questions.  I have been awake for 2 days, 9 hours, 48 minutes, 7 seconds this session, and currently reference 4904 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.04:08
trevarthanspank is what _Monkey does to milhouse when no-one is looking.04:08
trevarthanspank?04:08
_Monkeyspank is what _Monkey does to milhouse when no-one is looking.04:08
trevarthanlol04:08
milhouseoh lord! :)04:08
milhousewho told you???04:08
trevarthanyour mom, of course.04:09
trevarthanI'd make a good bot.04:10
trevarthanthe sad thing is that I'm perfectly sober....04:11
milhousemy mom eh? thank goodness for that, thought it might have been my gimp.04:12
trevarthannope. still soundly in the box04:12
* trevarthan gazes admiringly at his katana on the wall04:13
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Chilin700Evenin04:18
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gidgetfirst time on here on the 77004:38
gidgethow about them apples04:38
ekim\770xchat ?04:38
_Monkeysomebody said xchat was a gtk-based IRC client.  http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/04:38
gidgety04:38
ekim\770gidget, can you do fullscreen on it04:39
gidgetno04:39
ekim\770me either04:39
gidgetjust trying to figure that04:39
ekim\770I dunno why04:39
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gidgetothers can?04:39
ekim\770it bugs me04:39
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gidgetgo to view / layout and put it on tabs04:41
gidgetthat makes it a bit bigger04:41
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ekim\770how do I install this , http://maemo.org/downloads/product/busybox/04:42
gidgetare you using a bt kb?04:42
ekim\770no04:42
gidgetekim ^^04:42
ekim\770what?04:42
gidgetah, me either ;)04:42
ekim\770the fullscreen keyboard works nicely04:43
gidgetagreed04:43
ekim\770not as nicely as a bluetooth keyboard though04:43
gidgetdepends on if 'nicely' means 'portable' or not04:44
ekim\770does fceu have a gui ?04:45
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gidgetbeing able to stick this thing in my pocket is nicely for me04:45
gidgetyeah its called xmaeme04:45
gidgetgui for it and gba emultor and xmame04:46
gidgetemulator/04:46
ekim\770where do I get it04:47
ekim\770I have fceu installed04:47
ekim\770but no gui04:48
ekim\770anyone ?04:50
ekim\770is there any way I can put my 770 in "sleep mode"04:51
gidgetthird result on google for 'xmaeme'04:51
ekim\770is there any way I can put my 770 in "sleep mode"04:51
gidgetput the cover on it.  are you serious?04:51
GeneralAntillesHa04:52
GeneralAntillesDon't be mean, gidget. :P04:52
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gidgetnot trying to, just...04:53
GeneralAntillesSo, a question for the group:04:55
GeneralAntillesI have 2 770s and an N80004:55
GeneralAntilles1 770 is on the couch and the other in the bedroom04:56
GeneralAntillesN800 is a pocket-traveler04:56
GeneralAntillesFBReader saves its state to an xml file04:56
GeneralAntillesI'd like to figure out a way to synchronize this state file over all devices04:56
ekim\770hmm04:57
GeneralAntillesso FBReader will always have my place on whatever device I'm on.04:57
GeneralAntillesI figure rsync can pull this off04:57
ekim\770well...it depends04:57
ekim\770yeeah04:57
ekim\770rdync and cron04:57
ekim\770rsync04:57
GeneralAntillesBut I'd need to work out some sort of wrapper that would pull the latest state file on launch04:57
gidgetor a netcat shell script04:57
ekim\770hmm04:57
GeneralAntillesWhich, I imagine, is fairly easy to do04:57
ekim\770i never understood netcat04:57
ekim\770gotta look ito i04:58
GeneralAntillesBut sending the updated file on exit seems like a bit more of a challenge04:58
ekim\770not n exit....04:58
gidgetuse perl to check access date on the file, then udp broadcast ;)04:58
GeneralAntillesIs there anyway for rsync to look at 3 files (1 local 2 network) and grab the one that's newest?04:58
GeneralAntillesHehe, right.04:58
ekim\770how do I install this , http://maemo.org/downloads/product/busybox/04:59
ekim\770or better04:59
gidgetsrry, don't know rsync04:59
sp3000well you'd sync --update from/to bothe the others for pull/push04:59
GeneralAntillesOnly problem with that is that the other devices would have to be on and connected to the network04:59
ekim\770how do I get rd of bussybx comletrly and replace it wth basgh05:00
ekim\770that is a problem05:00
sp3000for doing things on startup, kinda yeah05:00
sp3000(app startup esp)05:00
ekim\770but seriously05:00
GeneralAntillesIf I could push the state on exit05:00
ekim\770how do I install this , http://maemo.org/downloads/product/busybox/05:00
gidgetspamming won't help ekim05:01
ekim\770sorry05:01
ekim\770stupid impatience05:01
gidgetbusybox is already installed05:01
ekim\770i know05:02
ekim\770this is a better version05:02
ekim\770with more stuff05:02
ekim\770surely someone has relaced bussybox with bash05:03
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derfIt actually turns out that replacing your shell is a Really Bad Idea.05:09
derfAt least when I did it, it bricked the machine.05:09
ekim\770so I can't upgrade busybox05:10
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ekim\770ahh man05:12
ekim\770do any of you guys' 770's simply refuse to launch apps sometimes?05:13
GeneralAntillesMine has been great since I bought it in November 200505:13
ekim\770you click on it and nothing happens05:13
ekim\770aww dang05:14
ekim\770I gotta reboot05:14
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ekim\770brb05:14
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ekim\770hi05:49
ekim\770how can I get man ...05:49
ekim\770im kinda lost without it05:50
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GeneralAntillesYeah, I never found out the answer to that on, ekim\770.05:57
GeneralAntillesSSH into a real machine? :P05:57
GeneralAntillesActually, re that FBReader idea, would there be any way to symlink to a network drive?05:59
ekim\770I wanna access it offline06:00
GeneralAntillesYeah, it was a joke suggestion.06:01
ekim\770ohh06:01
ekim\770I knew that06:01
ekim\770so...how do I do it ?06:01
GeneralAntillesNot a clue. ;)06:02
ekim\770:(06:02
ekim\770going to bed , later guys06:11
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pupnik06:22
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pupnik06:45
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erstazipupnik: ?06:49
pupnikkeyboard does not like orange juice06:50
pupniksticky keys06:50
pskrpupnik: I was able to build microb-engine on ARMEL. YOu know how I can run it/test it?06:54
pupniknice... i don't know how to start it manually though06:54
pskrI saw in some chat logs you were talking about being able to run it. did you do apt-get install after building it?06:57
pskrcan I do apt-get install with ARMEL packages and be able to see on maemo/Xephyr?06:58
pskror do I need to use QEMU. How to start QEMU? [I have to read about it]06:59
pupniki just hit the browser icon on the device and it started microb instead of opera06:59
pupnikyou start xephyr in your host07:00
pupnikwith ./start-xephyr.sh07:00
pupnikthen in scratchbox (armel) you run af-sb-init.sh07:00
pupniktwhich starts the windowmanager07:01
pskrthanks. I am able to do all that. But after building microb-engine for ARMEL, did you do apt-get install? or what did you do? I am not able to see anything under the browser menu07:02
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pupniki didn't build it07:03
pupnikif you have a .deb package you can install with dpkg -i <package>07:04
pskrOh.. I have microb-engine_1.0.3_13_armel.deb. I will try that. Thanks.07:05
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pskrpupnik:dpkg -i succedded [ I had to install multiple .debs to succeed though]. After that I restarted Xephyr. Still I did not see microb. Is it under web?07:14
Blacksito bye07:14
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pupnikyeah should be07:20
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pskr:-( May be I will log out and logback in and try that. I could not stop scratchbox successfully.07:23
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EnigmaCurryWhat's the username/password for canola configuration? I don't remember ever setting one myself.08:02
cesmanperhaps admin/password08:08
cesmanit definely requires one to change it08:08
cesmanor admin/admin08:08
EnigmaCurryneither of those work .. weird.. the "manual" videos show the configuration tool and it pops up without ever asking for a username/password08:11
EnigmaCurryI found the configuration file /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/schemas/apps/canola-conf/%gconf where I can set the IP and port for the server... no password option though08:12
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EnigmaCurryOk, very interesting. I changed the port number in the above configuration file and it no longer asks for a password :)08:15
pupnikah, gconf provides a config framework08:17
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timelyxlle2: should scratchbox have a component in bugs.maemo?09:04
timelyxmilhouse: ok, cool09:06
timelyxmilhouse: anyway, if you don't mind filing an invalid bug against yourself, where you09:07
timelyxdetail how you figured it out, that'd be good09:07
timelyxmilhouse: yeah, definitely not our fault, good job finding what the web page did :)09:08
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timelyxok, i need someone who's alive to help me09:51
* pupnik partially qualifies09:52
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timelyxindeed10:01
timelyxplease join #pupnik10:02
gidgetanyone else grow out their fingernails just to better type on the IT?10:04
gidget:)10:04
gidgetwell, thumbnails really10:05
keesjwhat do you use you thumbs for?10:05
timelyxi've always had mine slightly longer than most people10:05
timelyxit also helps if you need to open the back cover10:06
timelyxor the mmc slot10:06
timelyxbasically nokia hardware design encourages it :)10:06
keesj:)10:06
timelyxbut mostly, the nails make it possible to emulate stylus10:06
timelyxe.g. for use w/ vkb, not fkb10:06
gidgethuh10:07
gidgetboth seem to work better with nails10:07
keesjI really only use my nails to open the menu-bar because I don't like the large icons10:07
timelyxboth do, but, i tend to use vkb more than fkb10:08
timelyxdo note that the iphone penalizes people w/ long fingernails (women)10:08
keesjand once I understood that the touch is averaged can can even type on the small keyboard with my hand without to much errors10:08
gidgetwow, i have to hone my aim a bit more i guess10:08
gidgetcant really use the vkb very well yet10:09
gidgetare you guys typing all that on the vkb?10:10
* keesj not10:11
keesjthe n800 is just like me . it spends moost of it's time next to my computer10:12
gidgetha10:12
pupnikheh10:12
pupnikqotd10:12
keesj:P10:13
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gidgetanyone here a gizmo project user?10:14
gidgeti might say 'a successful' user?10:15
gidgetcant quite decide how to use it since i discvered theres no bt headset support10:15
gidgetwhich is why i bought the 770...10:17
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gidgeti built a custom headset only to have the tablet arrive and not be able to use it10:18
keesjgidget: I made some calls with my girlfriend using gizmo and the 770 she was using a computer and using a headset10:18
gidgetkeesj, did you hold it up to your face?10:19
gidgetor use earbuds10:19
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keesjI holded it to my head10:20
gidgetthats how i do it too, but its hard to get the volume right10:22
* gidget feels chatty10:22
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timelE61iwell now, that was happy10:27
timelE61imy mac paniced in IOATA stuff10:27
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timelE61ii have at times irc'd from my 77010:28
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timelyxkeesj =~ s/holded/held/10:29
Veggentimel: I did for about a week, live with my N800 as my only computer.10:29
timelyxi'm seriously considering leaving my laptop at home when i take my european vacation in september10:30
Veggenhmm. I found my N770 to be perfect for travel where all you want is cheching your mail and travel information on the web.10:31
VeggenAnd Maemo mapper as a city map is quite usable.10:31
* timelyx nods10:31
timelyxi'10:31
timelyxm more considering it because i'm going to italy and i'm not sure i want to have to worry about someone stealing a company laptop10:32
VeggenItaly is not *that* bad, actually.10:32
timelyxdoes anyone here have a list of all bugs that people had voted for in bugs.maemo.org?10:32
timelyxdon't ask bugzilla *now*10:33
timelyxi need to know from before i reorganized10:33
JaffaMorning, all10:38
Jaffatimelyx: no, as I got the mails saying my bugs had been de-voted, I just re-voted for them if they were still open & relevant.10:38
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timelyxJaffa: yeah, well, i just voted on behalf of about 30 people10:44
* timelyx frowns10:44
timelyxthis version of bugzilla doesn't seem to let me *see* a user's account activity log10:44
timelyxok, i'm done stuffing the ballot box for bug 17610:45
_MonkeyBug 176 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17610:45
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pupnikty for doing it :)10:46
timelyxok, done stuffing the very empty ballot box for 165410:48
timelyxanyone know which other ballot boxes got emptied?10:48
timelyxJaffa: got a list?10:49
Jaffatimelyx: yeah, hang on let me check my gmail10:53
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timelyxok, 1129 is the next one i get to restuff10:55
Jaffatimelyx: #472, 1210, 1209, 1228, 1129, 991, 257, 36610:55
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timelyxok, ballot box for 1235 restuffed11:07
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timelyxok. i think i've stuffed all the boxes i can find11:09
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* timelyx frowns11:13
timelyxshould i just brute force this?11:14
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* timelyx gives up and attacks google11:16
Jaffa:)11:16
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Silicium_hi there11:17
Silicium_exist a solution to connect to the Internet via Bluetooth on a Windows Machine?11:18
Silicium_for N80011:18
timelyxdamn11:23
timelyxgoogle has decided i'm a bot11:23
timelyxJaffa: wanna help?11:25
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timelyx#!/bin/perl11:27
timelyx$b=$ARGV[0];for ($a=$b; $a <= $b+75; ++$a) { `curl -o$a 'http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache%3Ahttps%3A//bugs.maemo.org/votes.cgi%3Faction%3Dshow_bug%26bug_id%3D$a&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8'`;}11:27
timelyxseems i'm limited to 75 requests per <unknown interval>11:27
timelyxi've harvested the first 7511:27
timelyxoh, no11:28
timelyxi got rejected a lot sooner11:28
VeggenSilicium: Not officially.11:28
VeggenNever tried it on the N800 (but on the 770), let me see if I can find a link.11:29
timelyxoh well11:30
* timelyx curses11:31
Silicium_ok, then i try via seriall interface11:31
Silicium_over bt11:31
Silicium_baybe i can code a gui application for that, asap11:31
Silicium_thanks for help11:31
Veggenthe posts following http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=52174#post52174 har some info.11:32
Silicium_thanks11:33
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Silicium_and for USB Host on N800 exist any usable hacks?11:36
Silicium_whitout soldering11:36
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AD-N770good morning11:39
VeggenSilicium: Nope, not yet at least.11:40
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Silicium_ok11:43
Silicium_and the final question:11:43
Silicium_exist any images for maemo 4?11:43
Veggennot as far as I know.11:44
Silicium_ok11:44
timelyxwhat do you mean?11:44
Silicium_anyway11:44
Silicium_then i install via chroot11:44
Silicium_i think this can be a lot of fun on a sd card :=11:44
Silicium_:)11:44
lle2timelyx: no idea, for sb2 I certainly will not be tracking anything other than bugs.fdo11:46
timelyxlle2: problem is that a bunch of scratchbox bugs exist in bugs.maemo11:46
timelyxi can move them to Misdirected:Upstream11:46
lle2timelyx: just move them to Misdirected:devnull11:47
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lle2timelyx: you have to ask somebody who deals with sb1, I couldn't care less11:48
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lle2yay, NokiaCare EMEA responded by saying that skype is a third party software and that I should contact them with the skype problem11:50
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onionanyone else had the problem with the 770 that if it dies with battery low, and you try to power it up/charge it goes into a reboot loop and only a reflash fixes it ?11:52
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timelyxlle2: well, that's at least not bad for a response time :)11:56
pupniki'm surprised we don't see more asian 770/N800 users11:57
timelyxpupnik: why?11:57
timelyxwe dpm11:57
timelyxwe don't have fonts11:57
timelyxthe web browser for the device doesn't support their encodings11:57
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timelyxand we don't have an input method editor11:57
pupnikbleh11:57
timelyxexactly why would you expect to see them?11:57
timelyxnote: we=maemo11:57
timelyxthat's not to say that nokia does or doesn't have some or all of those pieces11:57
timelyxalthough in all likelihood they aren't ready11:58
pupniki'd have hoped the unique features (linux + 800x480) and great euro-design would have found more adherents11:58
pupnikthey love BMWs too11:58
timelyxchina already has a knock off11:58
timelyxnot sure how well it's selling11:58
pupnikah11:58
timelyxbut see... bmw's don't have much text11:58
timelyxand don't need to show newspapers11:58
timelyx(and they probably come w/ manuals in at least mandarin and cantonese)11:59
pupnikgood points11:59
pupniki think the zaurus did ok in japan11:59
gla55_asians have zauruses still don't they?12:00
lle2it takes some time before people start wanting to spend $400 on top of the $40 mobile phone for an accessory12:00
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timelyxthe phone also speaks chinese12:00
timelyxin the case of japanese, the phone has a good web browser too12:00
timelyxwhich really defeats the point of our device12:00
lle2but maemo is not about the device12:01
timelyxoh, iirc it also has a decent chat client12:01
timelyxlle2: it's about a platform that isn't usable in asia :)12:01
timelyxcompeting w/ phones that work nicely in asia and have much better feature sets12:01
lle2yeah, but platforms are for devices, it can't be a platform either12:01
timelyxthe asian phone market is something like 5 years ahead of the rest of the world12:02
gla55_on some stuff12:02
gla55_in some ways the phones are on the same level as top end europeans12:02
* timelyx nods12:02
gla55_but the network/service integration is higher12:02
timelyxright12:02
lle2who cares, they are all flip phones, no use12:02
timelyxspoken by a true nokian12:03
lle2:D12:03
timelyxor finn, whichever12:03
lle2the same12:03
pupnikwhat's bad about flip?12:03
timelyxpick all that apply12:03
gla55_i hate flips too12:03
gla55_heh12:03
gla55_sliders are somewhat ok12:03
timelyxpupnik: there's a quote by some nokian saying something like "we will never build a flip phone"12:03
timelyxi can't remember if the guy got axed12:03
gla55_timelyx: iirc by that time they already had one in their history though12:03
timelyxhigh manager, stupid opinion12:04
pupniki am really uninformed about phones, so it was a naive honest question12:04
timelyxgla55_: probably, doesn't really matter12:04
gla55_nope12:04
timelyxpupnik: i hope you didn't think we objected to your question12:04
gla55_ok the thing i don't like about flips is that the screen is further away from the kb12:04
timelyxpersonally i don't see that as a disadvantage12:04
lle2moving parts12:05
timelyxand t9 users wouldn't either12:05
pupnikso it's mostly a style issue?12:05
lle2they break12:05
gla55_and usually, the phone could have just as well been the same size as the flip closed12:05
pupnikflip buys you button+screen real estate12:05
timelyxlle2: you prefer the communicator series?12:05
lle2solid chunk of steel would be my preferred form factor12:05
timelyxmy hinge failed, the cover failed, and something else did too12:05
gla55_pupnik: most flips don't use it12:05
timelyxoh, i almost lost the keypad once on the tube in london :)12:05
timelyxyeah, gla55_ is right12:06
gla55_they're flips just for style12:06
timelyxflips tend to have the screen well inset by maybe 2cm12:06
pupniki have had 4 different phones, all bought by either employers or girlfriends :P12:06
* timelyx rotfl12:06
timelyxhow did you manage to get a gf to buy you a phone?12:06
pupniki refused to buy one, so she did to keep me on a leash12:07
pupnik... just like my employers!12:07
lardmankulve: ping12:08
gla55_i got maybe 8 phones here now and loaned 3 phones to friends12:09
gla55_but then again i do symbian dev12:09
lle2developing some sort of clustering software?12:09
gla55_nope, they all just have different bugs12:10
timelyxpupnik: wow. did she pay for the bill too?12:10
timelyxlle2: we have people in OSSO w/ phone collections, mostly for BT interop12:10
pupnikyeah12:11
lle2timelyx: true, I tend to just feed the phones to friends and family. depending on the model.12:12
timelyxlle2: i don't have any phones my family would want12:12
timelyxmy parents don't have cell phones and my sister had an LG flip12:12
lle2timelyx: that has been the problem lately12:12
timelyxi think she considered changing phones recently12:12
timelyxbut really, any phone will work for her12:12
timelyxanyway, the big win for flip phones is a good keyguard12:13
timelyxyou won't accidentally dial someone w/ one12:13
lle2overrated12:13
timelyxyou won't ruin your display12:13
timelyxand you can easily unlock (well, ignoring nokia flips)12:13
lle2at least the samsung fliphone would start recording videos in my pocket instead12:13
* timelyx rotfl12:13
lle2almost as annoying12:13
pupniki have trouble with multitap sms-ing with numeric pad12:14
timelyxwell, my e61i will try to record my conversations for me12:14
timelyxand it's not a flip12:14
lle2pupnik: really depends on the keypad, I had forgotten how good it could be until I was forced to use this old 6230i12:15
lle2software needs to be fast as well12:15
timelyxi'm amazed at how easily i can use t9 on phone12:15
timelyxs12:15
timelyxi haven't used a t9 phone of my own since i came to nokia12:15
timelyxbut when i was in london i helped a guy write an sms using his t9 enabled phone12:16
lle2you end up adjusting your vocabulary, I hate that12:16
gla55_i don't use t9.. mostly because i find a pain in the ass to change between english/finnish12:16
gla55_and i'm fast enough with 9pad12:17
gla55_enough mobile irc12:17
pupnikyou're on a mobile now gla55_ ?12:17
gla55_nah not now12:17
lle2timelyx: the topic on this channel is not adhering to Maemo Convention, specifically the section concerning devices12:18
timelyxthe topic doesn't seem to mention devices12:19
lle2it says Nokia Internet Tablets, that's a reference to a physical product, isn't it?12:19
timelyx12:19 Server Mode for channel #maemo is ³+nc²12:20
timelyxnothing's (+t) stopping you from changing it12:20
lle2I'm afraid my judgement cannot be relied upon in Maemo matters12:21
timelyxlle2: find a specific citation, paste the url, change the topic12:21
lle2ok12:22
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timelyxi don't want to sound more authoritative than you feel.12:24
timelyxi usually ask someone to confirm before i do things12:25
timelyxotherwise i include a disclaimer (8/ has at least one disclaimer)12:25
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lardmanInteresting, the DSP is bigendian, but the dspgateway swaps the endianness of 16bit chunks (for convenience), resulting in the odd endianness of 32bit data12:31
lardmanthat explains a lot12:32
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timelyxheh12:47
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timelyxhrm, "oops"12:56
timelyxso, um12:56
timelyxthe reorg wiki says i was supposed to replace ARM w/ 770/N80012:56
pupnikat my job i generally don't ask 'may I do this?'12:57
pupnikthat ends-up setting up unnecessary debates12:58
timelyxi understand12:58
lle2couldn't find anything usable :(12:58
timelyxbut i generally end up in a position where i'm not the despot12:59
timelyxmerely someone who has been given some privs and no clear mandate12:59
timelyxwhich means i can get tarred and feathered by the masses if i don't walk a tight rope12:59
lle2too bad, detaching comments from their context normally does the trick, but not now12:59
pupnikoh yeah, the larger the company the more important knowing your place is12:59
lle2not so sure about that12:59
lle2if the community is big and strong it can take some beating, small communities need to be protected13:00
timelyxthis community is currently too small13:00
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pupnikagree with that :)13:00
timelyxbut even in morg, i am stuck in a similar role13:00
timelyxok13:00
timelyxmy math says that most arm bugs were filed against 770s13:01
lle2arm bugs?13:01
lle2somebody is filing bugs with the arm core to maemo.org bugzilla?13:01
timelyxhttps://bugs.maemo.org/report.cgi?x_axis_field=version&y_axis_field=rep_platform&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&format=table&action=wrap13:01
timelyxbtw, that link will be valid for um, not very long :)13:02
lle2hmph, those are not arm bugs13:03
lle2for a moment you got me interested13:03
timelyxheh13:03
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timelyxsorry13:04
timelyxoh well, that change will look really confused13:07
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timelyxsorry  all :)13:07
* timelyx should have made n800 first, moved the n800 bugs out, and then renamed 77013:07
florianhi all13:09
cosmohm.. what's the difference between arm and armel targets in scratchbox?13:12
timelyxarm is 770 itos200513:12
timelyxarmel is 770 itos2006,itos2007, n80013:13
timelyxarmel is a different abi13:13
* timelyx spams ~1000 people13:13
timelyxlle2: silly question13:14
timelyxshould the OS be listed as maemo (not an OS) or IT OS?13:14
timelyx(in bugs.maemo)13:14
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timelyxheh, i suspect quim gets the most mail from this13:14
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timelyxsp3000: did you drown? :)13:17
cosmotimelyx: thanks13:18
sp3000nah13:19
sp3000spam harder!13:19
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timelyxcosmo: how bad was your mail load? :(13:21
timelyxMischief managed.13:25
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jtukkinebugs.maemo.org just made its record of sending emails, i suppose ;)13:30
jtukkineand "hello world" to everyone, been impolitely too quite for some days already13:31
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amrwhy wont canola scan my mmc? i click 'rescan' on the applet on home13:36
amrand its just displaying wait13:36
amri cant even get into 'configure canola'13:36
amrit runs but just displays my library as empty13:36
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pupnikcan you browse the mmc with the file browser?13:42
MoRpHeUzpupnik: got the words out of my mouth =)13:43
amryes13:43
pupniki don't know canola.  perhaps you can try with different music files13:44
MoRpHeUzamr: are they all mp3 ?13:44
konttori_timelyx: nice bug sheet. looks quite informative.13:44
amryes13:45
amrits worked before13:45
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latzkohi13:45
MoRpHeUztimelyx: btw, good job with bugzilla =)13:45
amrthen i installed ukmp and kagu which didnt work13:45
amrso i installed canola again, now that isnt working13:45
MoRpHeUzamr: did you reboot the device as they ask for ?13:45
amri cant even access localhost:900013:45
amryes13:45
amrive rebooted several times13:45
konttori_amr: I would make a wild guess that there is some seriously corrupted mp3 that crashes all of those players.13:46
latzkocan I put a backround image on a home applet's frame? I'm trying bg_pixmap of widget style but I can't succeed13:46
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amrkonttori_, i havent changed my mp3s since i last used canola13:48
amrnothing changed13:48
konttori_can you open ukmp in xterm?13:48
pupnikapparently something has changed, but the question is what13:48
konttori_that might help me help you13:48
pupniki don't know latzko - perhaps you can email the guys who made their own themes13:48
konttori_try opening ukmp there and have a look at the error13:49
amrive removed ukmp now13:49
amrill probably just wipe the mmc13:49
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MoRpHeUzamr: do you have another mmc to try ?13:50
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pupnikthe command-line wants to help13:55
amrMoRpHeUz, yeah but its mmc-mobile and my card reader doesnt like it so its empty13:58
MoRpHeUzhhmm13:59
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VeggenIt's not-so-difficult to compile a fsck.vfat under scratchbox.14:02
VeggenSo you can fsck from the device itself.14:02
VeggenDone it, can't find the binary, and my scratchbox-installation is on a currently broken laptop ;)14:02
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konttori_so, what's the difference between ovi and mosh?14:10
* konttori_ didn't see the webcast14:11
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konttori_Is it so that mosh is the free content section and ovi is only for paid content?14:13
konttori_Heh. Nokia n81 is 'ngage compatible' - like hell no. You can't play games with that dpad ;) http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/10/nokia-n81-and-n82-come-to-light/14:15
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pupnikunfortunately these dpads don't get slammed as much as they should because reviewers don't use heavily before writing about em (imo)14:16
konttori_OTOH: if those buttons on the top (slash right considering landscape or portrait mode) http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/28/nokia-n81-shown-up-close-and-personal/ actually are buttons, then at least it seems that it's easy to press those. Kudos for the designers of those buttons14:16
konttori_yeah, they are definitely buttons. very cool. I hope next internet tablet will have the same button configuration14:17
pupniklooks nice though14:18
konttori_now, if only the dpad works, then that's a really cool concept14:18
kulvelardman: pong14:18
pupnikkonttori_: i think that's going to be pretty popular - what's the res on the screen?14:19
konttori_having tested n95 myself, I can positively say that that won't work for games.14:19
pupnikhmm14:19
pupnikyou know this dpad already?14:19
konttori_640x240 maybe.14:19
konttori_it's probably the same as n9514:19
pupnikok14:20
konttori_at least it seems that nokia is on the right track on the game pricing. 6-10 euros is pretty much the sweetspot for casual games.14:22
konttori_that might actually make the attempt worthwhile14:22
konttori_I can see briliant future for picodrive and vsun on that device14:23
konttori_well, platform14:23
pupniki've been brainwashing myself to accept righthandside onscreen buttons14:25
pupnik"onscreen is ok" "onscreen is ok"14:26
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sp3000hmm14:34
sp3000so maemo.org/lxr is no more?14:34
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* sp3000 tries to figure out where to shove a bug relating to it14:36
sp3000meh, it's "assigned"14:36
* sp3000 raises SEP field14:36
konttori_pupnik: do you have the side buttons on some emu already? Do they work?14:37
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pupnikyes tak has them on fceu and i've got them on UQM14:38
pupnikwork pretty well in 24fps combat14:38
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konttori_ahh.. great stuff. Have you done anything to your dpad?14:53
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konttori_I tested adding a glued layer on top of the rectangle part of the dpad to rais the rectangle around the middle button to over the middle button. After that, the dpad works relatively well.14:53
konttori_You can actually control the dpad without moving your finger to change direction14:54
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konttori_So, I think that the easiest way to improve the dpad substancially would be to lower the middle button (or - better yet - move it to the right side like in n81)14:55
konttori_DOes it work well in fceu? I might be tempted to try it14:55
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VeggenHmm. I did try one of those emulators..15:00
Veggendownloaded a game. came nearly to the end. Then, I discovered I needed to support the game engines "punch" command, and the UI had no way to signal it.15:01
Veggenmrf ;)15:01
Veggen(ScummVM, was the emulator)15:02
gla55_indiana jones or what15:03
Veggenyah, something like it.15:03
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Mikhoyou came nearly to the end without needing punch once?15:08
gla55_wasnt the fighting in a castle or somewhere midways15:08
Mikhothat was the third indy I believe15:09
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gla55_well there werent scumm games of the first two iirc15:13
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Mikhohmm, I should have said that it was the game from the third indy movie15:14
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konttoriHey, maybe someone should configure side buttons to the scummvm.15:20
konttorithey might also be game dependend.15:20
pupnikbuttons for scummvm? i don't know of games that want it15:20
pupniknewest scummvm also has a vkbd15:21
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pupnikbuttons for scummvm?15:21
konttori_yeah. I mean, e.g. right mouse button would be my first choice.15:21
gla55_you need buttos for fighting in some15:21
gla55_and also i think for that driving thing in sam'n'max?15:22
konttori_even though right button is some times mapped to some HW button, it would be easier for n00bs to see that there is onscreen right MB as well15:22
pupnikdo either of you have an idea why xkbd isn't sending key events to fullscreen sdl apps?15:24
konttori_anyway, might be relatively easy to add (don't really know if it's hard or not). Just process mouse events and consume them in the 'button manager' if they have something to do with mouse area outside the emulator screen15:24
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pupnikit's fairly easy to add onscreen buttons in sdl15:24
pupnikkonttori_: do you want to add a post to ITT mentioning this?  i think fanoush did the latest version (not sure)15:26
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pupniki'm working on a new freesci right now15:27
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sp3000hmm16:12
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LrdGrmRprHi guys, just a quick question about updating the N80016:13
LrdGrmRprI have a hardware revision 1201 device, so the flasher utility won't allow the update16:13
LrdGrmRprThere is a parameter called --set-hw-revision, but I haven't managed to get the firmware to update regardless16:14
sp3000timeless: does planet belong in web / news?16:15
sp3000or geenral?16:15
sp3000this one planet bug was sitting in news16:15
sp3000which sounds like a fair combination16:15
LrdGrmRprIf anyone could help me with this issue, I'd be most grateful, since after some googling and trying, I'm basically nowhere16:16
sp3000if so the component desc should mention planet16:16
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Jaffasp3000: Planet sits under the "News" menu, so makes sense for Bugzilla to follow that16:33
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lle2Bad News, maybe?16:34
sp3000which reminds me, wth is up with the shotgun font sizes on http://maemo.org/news/16:36
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timelessdoes anyone here know anything about planet.maemo?17:29
timelessspecifically, are there archives?17:29
timelessi want t o know which articles have "fav"s and how many17:29
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Robot101how do I get the glib messages from stuff on the device, I've installed syslog but it's not making a file...18:04
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timelessrobot101: usually the simplest way is to ssh to the device (from xterm in device or remote, whatever)18:11
timelessand run programs from that xterm18:11
timelessglib complaints go to stderr typically iirc18:13
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disqfunny thing?18:28
disq_Monkey: hi18:28
_Monkeyniihau, disq18:28
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gpdI think I may have lost my grey leather case for the N800 :(18:32
gpdand there are no signs of replacements online18:32
gpdeven this one is not in stock: http://europe.nokia.com/n800case18:32
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lardmanCan anyone point me to an implementation of a circular buffer than needs to be shared between two threads/processes, etc.? I'm wondering what the best way is18:34
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cwong1anyone from here knows the internal the libhildon?18:35
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Robot101where do all my glib messages go? gahrgahg18:37
celesteh_rulesdo glib messages and witty messages get stored separately?  (sorry)18:38
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sp3000lardman: man pipe?18:44
sp3000that sounds dirty, I'm not sure how yet18:45
lardmansp3000: Yeah, I actually need to implement a shared memory buffer though, and am trying to work out how to not have to lock it too often18:47
milhousei see Nokia have just launched a music store with "unlimited streaming" (in addition to buying tracks)... a non-US replacement for Rhapsody perhaps?18:48
cwong1tko: ping18:51
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milhouse10EUR/month for full track streaming.... replace Rhapsody with the Nokia store and I'm sold.18:59
milhousePress Release: http://ovi.nokia.com/ovi/flash/assets/pdf/1_MeetOvi_Umbrella.pdf19:00
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roopeAvaa Ovi.19:19
milhouseLet's hope we get some Ovi love on Internet Tablets :)19:20
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zoyd_hi19:28
_Monkeyhi, zoyd_19:28
zoyd_does anyone know of a tool that does image/key map that can be useful for xoo?19:29
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Takanybody using vala?19:55
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milhouseNokia demoed a iPhone-clone phone interface today... video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFKyAMQPbmI19:57
milhouseinteresting...19:57
Tak( http://live.gnome.org/Vala )19:58
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gla55_well anything touchscreen is is iphone clone now..20:02
milhousethat ui is a bit of a rip off (not that i'm complaining, if it's good copy it)20:03
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Blacksitoxhi20:44
_Monkeyprivet, Blacksitox20:44
Blacksitoxhey _Monkey20:44
_Monkeyi am the best programmer in the whole freenode IRC right now20:44
Tak:-(20:44
* Tak /quit20:44
timelesscwong1: if necessary, i can read it20:45
timelesssp3000: it occurs to me that we should probably stick captions onto the party pictures20:46
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erstaziTak: it could be worse, you could be an ant-eater.20:50
Takwhy would that be worse?20:50
erstazibecause you would be sucking all day..20:50
erstaziI don't know20:50
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Takif I had a tongue like an anteater's, I'd be a hit with the ladies20:57
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||cwanteaters don't suck, they lick21:03
erstaziTak: heh21:03
erstazi||cw: it was a joke21:04
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WhisperingVoicesAnyone here have a Nokia n800 can help me with a memory card question?21:15
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TakWhisperingVoices: what's the question?21:15
_Monkeyrumour has it the question is whether you can mask it well enough that they wouldnt notice21:15
WhisperingVoicesI ordered my Nokia with an MU-37 memory card, but I can't for the life of me work out where it goes.21:15
WhisperingVoicesIt's too small to fit in the slot under the back cover.21:15
TakWhisperingVoices: did the card come with an adapter?21:16
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Takactually, the N800 should have come with a microSD card and an adapter21:16
WhisperingVoicesaye21:16
WhisperingVoicesit came with a card, I ordered a second because it advertised two slots21:17
WhisperingVoicesthe card it came with is happily inside the N800, and works. This second card I ordered (listed as compatible on the Nokia website) is inside it's adaptor but it's still too small to fit anywhere. It's a MicroSD one21:17
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mgedminperhaps it has a microSD -> miniSD adapter?21:18
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WhisperingVoicesnot that came in the N800 box or even the memory card's box21:19
Takwhat you're apparently lacking is a microSD -> SD adapter21:19
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WhisperingVoiceshmm21:21
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WhisperingVoicesheh I can't even get the battery back out to check for a slot under that21:22
Takthere's no slot under the battery21:24
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Takthere's no microSD slot at all, only two fullsize SD slots21:24
timelessyeah, it's an interesting "Feature"21:24
timelessyou get one mini=>sd adapter21:25
timelessbut if you buy 2 nokia micro's, you get 2 micr=>mini adapters21:25
timelessand are short one mini=>Sd21:25
timelessthere are micro=>sd adapters available in some places21:25
WhisperingVoicesUgh21:25
timelessgot a url for the adapter product?21:25
timelessi'll gladly complain to nokia for you if you don't want it21:26
timelesss/it/to do /21:26
infobottimeless meant: i'll gladly complain to nokia for you if you don't want to do21:26
timelesss/it/to do it/21:26
WhisperingVoiceshttp://europe.nokia.com/search4/index.jsp?wsid=8&charset=ISO-8859-1&qt=mu37&GO.x=0&GO.y=0&GO=GO21:26
infobottimeless meant: i'll gladly complain to nokia for you if you don't want to do it21:26
timelessbut, it'd be better if you did it21:26
Takhah, nice21:26
WhisperingVoicesthis is what I got21:26
WhisperingVoicesbecause it was advertised as compatible on the Nokia website, and I thought more memory never hurt anyone21:26
timelesshttp://europe.nokia.com/A439734521:27
timelessi don't see n800 listed there oddly21:27
timelessit does clearly say:21:27
timelessRequires miniSD adapter, included in MU-37 sales package.21:27
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timelessso, i think, unfortunately, you can't really complain21:27
WhisperingVoiceswell there was no way I would have randomly ordered it. Let me check21:28
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timelessi ordered 4 or so of those21:28
timelessbut in my case, we have lots of devices, so i just took extra adapters21:28
timelessand then people took my cards21:28
Taks/(\w+)h.*\s(\w{2})../We are the knights who say \2! \2! \2! \1\1\1\1\1\1!/21:28
timelessso i was left w/ older 1g cards from my 770 work21:29
Tak:-(21:29
timelessactually, at this point, i don't know where any of my cards are21:29
timelessi think i lost most or all of them21:29
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timelessi'm fairly certain coworkers took most of the 2g ones21:29
WhisperingVoicesokay21:30
WhisperingVoicesif you go to the Nokia page and make as if to order the N800 it brings up a list of compatible products21:30
WhisperingVoicesThat particular SD is amongst htem21:31
WhisperingVoices*them, apologies for bad typing.21:31
timelessthat's fine, atm, my typing is worse21:31
pskrtimeless: I was able to build microb yesterday, but I am not able to run. http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-August/011509.html has more details.21:31
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WhisperingVoicesI'll try and call Nokia's careline21:32
WhisperingVoicesthanks for your help, Timeless21:32
timelessthanks for complaining, it really is bad when that site is messed up21:32
timelesswhich unfortunately ime has been almost always21:32
timelessi have about 6 pages printed showing the mistakes they had for the n80021:32
timelessit's hanging outside m office21:33
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timelesspskr: erm21:33
timelesstypically gecko builds xpidl itself21:33
WhisperingVoiceswell sadly I bought it with personal money, I can't afford to waste 60£ randomly, I'm a student :/21:34
timelesswhisperingvoices: contribute something helpful and i'll send you a shirt w/ an adapter :)21:34
timelessit'll take however long shipping takes, but ..21:35
* timeless can't really see shipping just an adapter21:35
timelesspskr: i'm very confused21:36
timelesswhat in the world did you actually build21:36
timelessand in what directories21:36
timelessand in what order21:36
timelessif you built microb-engine21:36
timelessyou probably ended up w/ a microb-engine-dev or something21:37
timelesswhich would have xpidl21:37
timelessif you don't install whatever that package is, you own't have xpidl21:37
timelesshttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/mozilla/trunk/microb-engine/microb-engine/debian/control#6121:38
timelessanyway, if you're using too much of the debian build system21:38
timelesswhich you clearly are21:38
timelessthen you need to pay attention to how the debian build system works21:38
timelesswhich you clearly aren't21:38
timelesspersonally, i'd avoid the debian buidl system21:39
timelessit makes my life a lot simpler21:39
timelesssorry, i'm frustrated. i have <10 days to plan a vacation, and i have a dozen tasks i need to get done21:39
timelessand you're asking questions which are really "how do i build things with debian"21:39
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timelesswhich are things i, a person who doesn't even like debian, shouldn't be forced or expected to help w/21:39
pskrtimeless: No problem.  :-(21:40
timelessi do appreciate that you're trying to build something big21:40
timelessand i hope that at some point you can contribute21:40
timelessbut in the interim, it's only compounding headaches21:40
timelessand i get lots of headaches from work21:40
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timelessfwiw, we're not kinder nor gentler to internals or contractors who ask similar questions21:41
* timeless goes back to good old perl21:41
pskrtimeless: I am planning to contribute. BTW< Sorry and thanks for your help.21:42
pskrtimeless: are you same as timelyx?21:43
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WhisperingVoices[19:36] <timeless> whisperingvoices: contribute something helpful and i'll send you a shirt w/ an adapter :) <- haha. Contribute to what? What do you do?21:43
timelessyyes21:43
timelesswhisperingvoices: i work on the browser21:43
timelessbut if you help triager bugs.maemo.org, that's fine too21:44
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timelessi can send you a shirt from qgil's budget just as easily as i can from my portion of his budget :)21:44
timelessheck, help clean up wiki.maemo.org and the same applies21:44
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WhisperingVoicesWell given I got the n800 specifically to start learning about such things on the long long commute I have, I'd have to start with the Wiki :P21:57
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timelessfine w/ me, only warning:21:58
timelessyou have about 1 week (probably less) to do cleanup21:58
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WhisperingVoicesbefore the world ends?21:58
timelessi'll be on vacation for a month, and won't be able to send you a shirt + adapter while i'm out of the country :)21:58
timelessin a way, yeah :)21:58
WhisperingVoicesit seems that neither the Wiki Evaluation nor reorganization pages work22:01
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Biguphello :)22:15
cosmohm, still no mpd client for 77022:16
pupnik_mpd?22:16
cosmoi installed a couple of web clients but they suck22:16
cosmomusic player daemon22:16
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pupnik_ libavahi-client-dev libao-dev (>= 0.8.3-1) libpulse-dev libjack-dev libshout3-dev libvorbis-dev libflac-dev (>= 1.1.4-1) libspeex-dev libmpcdec-dev libmad0-dev libfaad-dev libtheora-dev libid3tag0-dev22:18
WhisperingVoicesAnyone here use GPE PIM?22:18
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timelessi used it once w/ my 770 to cause my device to reboot22:18
WhisperingVoicesoh22:19
WhisperingVoices:/22:19
timelessdoes that count? :)22:19
pupnik_unmet build dependencies cosmo -- looks doable actually but more work than i have time for right now22:19
WhisperingVoicesLOL22:19
WhisperingVoicesand it has such good reviews too.22:19
timelessthis was a long time ago22:19
cosmopupnik_: did you try to compile the N800 version?22:19
timelessat the time, i was using all sorts of things to cause device reboots22:19
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cosmohttp://mmpc.garage.maemo.org/22:19
timelessanyway, i just like breaking things22:19
pupnik_cosmo - wait, there's a port already?  what's the problem?22:20
timelessand w/ maemo that's no very hard :)22:20
cosmopupnik_: only N800 binaries available22:20
Bigupi have a small question : i intend to buy a n800 very son, but i've not seen if there is nfs support, because all of my data is tored and anvailable though nfs22:20
cosmoi could try to set up a itos06 dev environment and compile tomorrow at work..22:20
WhisperingVoiceshow about Maemopad+?22:21
timelessit works22:21
timelessbigup: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/kernel/22:21
Biguptimeless: out of the box? like i just have to 'mount -t nfs' ?22:22
timelessno, the itworks was to whisperingvoices22:22
Biguptimeless: ok22:22
WhisperingVoicesthanks22:22
pupnik_whoah how did he make a webpage for his garage page?  i wan do that too22:23
Biguptimeless: i've seen this url already but the post the user made says that it does not work, and it seems to be the only feedback22:23
timelesspupnik: eh?22:23
timelesspupnik: you mean like browser.garage.maemo.org?22:23
cosmothat mpd server was surprisingly easy to set up.. apt-get install and edit music dir to conf file22:23
pupnik_the mmpc.garage.maemo.org has a custom webpage - yeah22:23
WhisperingVoicesTimeless - I queried you about the Wiki22:23
timelesssorry,  missed it22:24
WhisperingVoicesDoes the N800 have some sort of "congratulations, I am full" message when the battery finishes charging?22:24
timelesswhat did you query?22:24
timelesswhisperingvoices: when it's on or off?22:24
timelesswhen it's off it'll say something like fully charged w/ a check mamrk iirc22:24
WhisperingVoicesOff, I just plugged it in for the first time22:24
WhisperingVoicesOkay, thanks22:24
timelesswhen it's on, in newer releases it might say something like "battery full, please unplug charger"22:24
timelessor it might not22:25
WhisperingVoicesAlso: the Maemo wiki's got nothing in the "evaluation" and "reorganisation" pages22:25
* timeless shrugs22:25
WhisperingVoicesthey're broken urls22:25
timelessurl?22:25
WhisperingVoiceshttp://maemo.org/community/MidgardWikiEvaluation22:25
timelesspupnik: ok22:25
timelessedit public info22:25
WhisperingVoiceshttp://maemo.org/community/WikiReorg22:25
timelessthere's a homepage link22:26
timelessthat's half of it22:26
timelessi think the other half might be just having a www/ directory at the top of svn22:26
* timeless wonders if that's true22:26
Biguptimeless: did you personally try the kernel with nfs or do you use other protocols so as to access data on your home server?22:26
pupnik_ok i'll just ask Holger of mmpc fame22:26
timelessi use gmail22:26
Bigupgmail with fuse?22:27
timelessi don't see why anyone would want to manage lots of storage using the maemo file manager22:27
timelessno, just gmail22:27
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timelessi don't use my n800 to build apps22:27
Bigupi don't want to manage a lot of storage, i just want to access my music or movies22:27
timelessand i don't use my n800 as an mp3 player/movie player22:27
timelesshttp :)22:27
Bigupto transfer then to the n80022:27
timelessit's portable, everyone speaks it22:28
timelessand btw, linux support for nfs sucks22:28
timelessand nfs traditionally wedges badly22:28
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Bigupin general you mean?22:28
timelessneither are great reasons to consider it22:28
timelessnothing maemo specific in those comments22:28
pupnik_true about the wedging22:29
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Bigupi use nfs at home22:29
pupnik_i like nfs too - samba is a pig22:29
timelessyou have my condolances22:29
Bigup:)22:29
timelessotoh, i use nfs at work, but it's running on opensolaris22:29
timelessso i have a decent nfs stack22:29
Bigupanyway i just consider cifs or nfs ton access remote data22:29
* timeless shrugs22:30
timelesshttp is my friend22:30
Bigupif i use http i'll have to wget directories to download my music22:30
timelessmy box serves content via nfs and http, but i generally use htp22:30
timelesss/htp/http22:30
Bigupok, but if i want do download 2 albums, i don't want to clik on 24 tracks22:31
timelessi think shoutcast or something makes more sense than nfs22:31
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timelessbut it really depends on what you're actually trying to do22:31
Bigupjust access data22:31
timelessif i want to download a movie, i'll plug my n800 into my desktop w/ usb22:31
timelessit's a lot faster22:31
timelessand the ue is better22:32
Bigupue means?22:32
timelessui=user interface. ue=user experience22:32
Bigupthanks22:33
timelessanyway, i'm off in search of food22:33
Bigupn800 behaves like usb mass storage?22:33
Bigupok22:33
Bigupthanks for the answers22:33
timelesshttp://maemo.org/community/wiki/usbnetworking/22:33
timelesssays:22:33
timelessIn normal circumstances, the USB Mass storage driver had control of the usb hardware.22:34
timelessUntil the replacement occurs, the host computer will see the 770/n800 as just another mass storage device or an empty cable.22:34
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timelessanswers brought to you by google22:34
Bigupthanks for the answers timeless :)22:35
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Bigupelse i can use sftp22:36
Bigupi'll check if there is a (s)ftp client with gui22:36
Bigupit would solve everything22:37
pupnik_i'm using scp - comes with ssh22:37
Bigupcould do the trick22:37
pupnik_scp -r etc22:37
Bigupyup22:37
Bigupbut a simple ui could do the trick to browse the remote machine22:38
pupnik_kinda slow though - averaging 200-300kB/s on large files22:38
Biguplike mc orsomething22:38
pupnik_i should set up nfs but i'm too lazy22:38
Bigupi don't even know if nfs really works actually22:38
twobithackermight be able to speed up scp by using a faster cipher22:39
Bigupthe only feedback on the website says no22:39
pupnik_dropbear doesn't understand -c blowfish22:39
pupnik_imo they should have included a "-c none" option but oh well22:40
lardmanIs the n800 audio output limited to 8bit? I seem to remember reading that somewhere22:40
pupnik_no way22:40
lardmanah, perhaps that was the input then22:41
lardmanthat would make more sense22:41
Biguphow do you guys access data stored on your server to trasfers from/to n800 ?22:42
pupnik_timeless and I already answered that22:42
Bigupscp and http then22:43
Bigupwill be scp for me22:43
Bigupbut scp can be troublesome if you don't exactly know the name of the diretory you want to get (i probably have tens of music albums)22:44
pupnik_for music the gui would be much nicer22:45
pupnik_why not try the nfs enabled kernel22:45
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pupnik_just download the kernel and flash it to the device22:46
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Biguppupnik: nfs would be great but on the page, the only feedback says that it does not work22:47
lardmankulve: I forgot to say, the kernel was the right one (at least it flashed ok and runs, I've not had to do any debugging yet)22:47
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lardmankulve: Thanks22:47
Bigupnfs would really be nice22:47
Bigupi just wondered if it really worked22:48
Bigupelse it'll be scp22:48
Bigupanyway maemo seems really to be a nice os22:48
Bigupi've been a debian user for a few years, using it on the n800 will be pure pleasure ^^22:49
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pupnikBigup: yes, but 3rd party apps are spread across many private repositories - just need to adapt to that22:52
Bigupgreat then :)22:52
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Bigupas well as debian22:52
pupnikas far as debian goes, i'm a big sidux fan... tracking sid without the instability22:53
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Biguppupnik: right, sidux seems really nice22:54
Bigupi'm using debian/testing mixed with a bit of unstable for compiz22:54
pupnikdid you start with the deb bootstrap?22:55
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Bigupwhat do you mean?22:56
pupnikmaybe i got the name wrong - there's a script and tarball somewhere that will set up a barebones debian system - great for small installs22:56
Bigupi think it's the right name yes22:57
pupnikhttp://packages.debian.org/stable/admin/debootstrap22:57
Bigupi have it installed22:57
pupniki use it for a UML image22:58
pupnikso the server never sees the internet - only a UML debian running on it22:58
Bigupnice :)22:58
_Monkeynice :) is ssvb working on it?22:58
cosmoBigup: i use sftp from pc to 770 over wlan to transfer files22:58
Bigupcosmo: command line sftp?22:59
cosmono, gui22:59
Bigupnice22:59
cosmowell maybe sometimes scp if i feel oldschool22:59
Bigupwhat application on the n800 does provide a gui sftp?23:00
Bigupoups23:00
Bigupyou said to the n80023:00
pupniknice :)23:00
Bigupi'm looking for a gui to transfer files on the n800 from the n80023:00
cosmoyep, there's no sftp gui for maemo yet.. although it would be useful23:00
pupnikuh... there's no gui ftp client?23:01
pupnikMaemoFTP23:02
_Monkeyi guess MaemoFTP is not for n80023:02
cosmodunno about ftp clients, haven't used ftp since 1998 or so ;)23:02
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timelE61iPresumably you could get sftp for gnomevfs...23:03
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timelE61ino idea if it would work w/ file manager...23:03
pupnikhmm, there's also sftp-server for the tablet23:04
cosmopupnik: yep, openssh23:04
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pupnik_Monkey sftp-server is extract the sftp-server binary from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo/ossw/o/openssh/ssh_3.8p1-3osso2_arm.deb and put it on the filesystem, then modify sshd_config to reflect where it is located.23:04
_Monkeypupnik: no idea23:04
timelE61ilol23:05
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timelE61ipupnik: backwhack \where23:06
pupnikmaybe it's having trouble with the '-'23:06
timelE61iotherwise you're asking a question23:06
pupnikoh23:06
pupnikty23:06
timelE61ibetter: weword to avoid23:07
timelE61i.. to reflect its location23:07
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pupnikforget sftp-server23:07
pupnik_Monkey, forget sftp-server23:07
_Monkeypupnik, I didn't have anything matching sftp-server23:07
timelE61iit didn't learn.23:08
timelE61iyou asked a very long and convoluted question23:08
pupnik_Monkey. sftp-server is extract the sftp-server binary from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo/ossw/o/openssh/ssh_3.8p1-3osso2_arm.deb and put it on the filesystem, then modify sshd_config to reflect its location23:08
timelE61ito which it answered it didn't know23:08
pupniksftp-server?23:08
timelE61i: not . ?23:08
pupnik22:04 <_Monkey> ...but _monkey. sftp-server is extract the sftp-server binary from  http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo/ossw/o/openssh/ssh_3.8p1-3osso2_arm.deb and put it  on the filesystem, then modify sshd_config to reflect where it is located...23:09
timelE61ithat wasn't address23:09
pupniki brokeded it :(23:09
timelE61i_monkey: forget _monkey. Sftp-server23:10
_MonkeytimelE61i: I forgot _monkey. sftp-server23:10
pupniksftp-server?23:10
pupniksftp-server23:10
timelE61ithat was passive learning23:10
pupnik_Monkey. sftp-server is extract the sftp-server binary from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo/ossw/o/openssh/ssh_3.8p1-3osso2_arm.deb and put it on the filesystem, then modify sshd_config to reflect its location23:11
_Monkeyi already had it that way, pupnik.23:11
pupniki PMed the training to reduce traffic here23:11
pupnikwhat could be causing problems now?23:11
timelE61ireplace _monkey. With _monkey:23:11
pupnikoh23:11
pupnikworks now23:12
timelE61i_monkey: forget _monkey. Sftp-server23:12
_MonkeytimelE61i: I forgot _monkey. sftp-server23:12
pupnikaargh23:12
timelE61iplease pay attn23:12
pupniki had it working with :23:12
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timelE61ityping on this phone isn't fun23:13
pupniki understand now - thanks for the expl23:13
timelE61ii only type what is necessary23:13
pupnikyou're fast23:13
timelE61inp23:13
timelE61ii'm generally walking too :)23:14
timelE61iwanna help me find a flight from HEL..VIE?23:15
xorAxAxfrom hell to vienna?23:17
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gogolha23:18
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sp3000hell to vierumäki23:18
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timelyxhrm, no?23:21
pupniki am not familiar with flight booking sites23:24
pupniktimelyx: yes/no are you looking for cheapest or soonest flight?23:26
pupnikargh - cheapest?23:26
WhisperingVoicesQuick question - how can I set my desktop background on the N800?23:29
zakxWhisperingVoices: open the menu on the home screen23:30
zakxthere's an option for it23:30
timelyxi expect to fly sep 7 hel=>vie, and return from par=>hel oct 723:31
timelyxconstraint is i'd like to arrive before 5pm on friday, and leave relatively late on sunday23:31
timelyxairberlin found me a 260EUR flight that arrives 6pm (not ideal)23:31
timelyxesp since i have no idea how far out of the city i am and how long it'd take for me to get settled23:32
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WhisperingVoiceszakx - any idea where more specifically ? I've looked around and I can open the image but not set it as abackground23:32
timelyxlufthansa has a ~500USD path for the "round" trip23:32
timelyxalthough i didn't record the time stamps23:32
zakxWhisperingVoices: step 1: make sure being on the home screen. it should say "Home" on top and you should see your applets.23:33
WhisperingVoicesah-hah23:33
WhisperingVoicesalright thanks23:33
zakxWhisperingVoices: step 2: press either the arrow next to the "Home" label or the softkey for menus (that's the middle one)23:33
WhisperingVoicesI hit Home but that's not the same thing23:33
WhisperingVoicesyea done it now23:33
zakxk23:34
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Bigupthanks for everything23:37
Bigupand good night!23:37
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