IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2007-08-19

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qgilmilhouse: and here you go: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8912&highlight=200700:04
milhousesuperb! :) that should stop the natives from getting restless for another few weeks :D00:05
pupnikaww man fantastic interview from Scott Horton with Ron Paul - http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/08/17/rep-ron-paul-3/00:06
pupnikoops00:06
milhousenooo....politics!00:06
pupniksorry wrong channel00:07
qgilmilhouse: I tell you with confidence that I can't invest the time I invested in the Tablet Advocacy thread now again  :)00:07
milhousei can imagine :)00:07
milhousemaybe you need to hire someone for that role?00:08
milhouseor to be part of their role...00:08
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milhousesomeone to deal with the plebs :)00:08
qgilI don't hire, but if anybody asks me I still tell that I prefer to hire people fix/improve/lead first - it is always easier and more grateful to provide explanations after that  :)00:09
milhousefrom your point of view, I can see why you'd say that. From my point of view, it's slightly different. :)00:10
qgilabout dealing with the community, we are working on this but concentrating on the maemo.org channels00:10
milhousefair enough.00:11
qgilsome ITT people expects that Nokia employees should follow all the activity there and respond00:11
qgilwell, I don't know many OSS projects where developers are expected to be responsive out of the channels of the project00:11
milhouseabsolutely, it should be a part of your daily routine to read every post on ITT00:11
milhouse;)00:11
milhousebut it would be nice to see you there occasionaly00:12
milhouse:)00:12
milhousei think igor drops by every now and again00:12
milhousenot sure who sd69 is... might be an nokian00:12
milhouses/an/a/00:12
infobotmilhouse meant: not sure who sd69 is... might be a nokian00:12
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qgilI don 't track userid's either00:12
qgilas I see it a lot of the fuzz comes from a non-common understanding00:13
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qgillanding as a parachute in itt from time to time doesn't always help on this00:13
qgiland once you shoot then you have to continue00:14
qgilso really, I think it is good enough to be responsive always in the maemo lists, bugzilla, etc00:14
qgiland then there is some of you guys who are in both spaces00:14
milhousei don't think anyone is expecting continuous dialog there, but the occassional note might help. at least keep an eye on it to guage reaction and feedback... it's probably good for that in some capacity00:15
milhousefor instance, the cheap 770s and the WSoD and lack of support from Nokia - that's bad.00:15
milhousethough i'm sure that's been noticed in the ofifical channels also00:15
milhousewhere possible those of us who visit most of the official communication channels will feed back into ITT00:16
qgilmilhouse: when talking about hardware "lack of support" is not a right expression: you use the Nokia customer channels for that00:18
milhouseApparently Nokia are refusing responsibility00:18
qgilmaemo is about software - I really have little to say and do about hardware even if I have a @nokia.com00:18
milhousenot honouring warranty etc.00:18
milhouseunderstood - but whether it's software or hardware, it reflects badly on nokia/maemo/etc.00:19
qgil"apparently", do you remember a thread? Nokia support follows the threads there00:19
milhouseanyway... not your area so i'll drop it :)00:19
milhousethere are sever on itt00:19
milhouses/sever/several/00:20
infobotmilhouse meant: there are several on itt00:20
qgilthey are followed, reported internally, etc00:20
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milhouseas a summary, anyone who bought one of the cheap 770s is being refused a warranty repair for the white screen of death00:20
qgilcheap/expensive doesn't mean anything: the warranty text is the same00:21
milhouseit seems that devices were cross shipped to another continent where the warranty is invalid (ie. UK bought devices have US warranties etc.)00:21
milhousei'd have thought so too00:21
milhousebut apparently not00:21
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milhouselet me find a not too long thread00:21
pupnikhey milhouse00:22
_Monkeymilhouse is, like, the owner of _monkey00:22
milhousemaybe you can clarify something: Was the WSOD fault rectified on the production line, and does it only affect a range of devices? or is it inherent in every device ever produced?00:23
pupnikoh nevermind00:23
qgilmilhouse: if you are talking to qgil, qgil can tell you that he has no clue about hardware, honestly00:23
milhouseok :)00:23
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qgiland qgil knows only a little about sales and guarantees, not specifically about Nokia but in general as a consumer00:25
qgilbut if you buy legally a consumer electronics product the seller or distributors that sold it to you has to respond about the guarantee00:26
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milhouseyou'd have thought so...00:27
qgila different thing is if you buy the device in your trip to the US or wherever and then try to claim something to a reseller or whoever in a different country00:27
milhouseif i bought a Nokia device on a trip to the US, assuming the device is also sold in the UK I'd fully expect Nokia to repair it under warranty - wouldn't you?00:28
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qgilmilhouse: depends on the guarantee text - I reckon I haven't read it.00:29
milhouseseemingly Nokia UK are looking up the MAC address and refusing the warranty because it was shipped for sale in the US, which is nuts.00:29
milhouseseems... unecessary.00:29
MaemoUsersomebody knows if when i call gtk_widget_destroy the childs are destroyed too? for example a container00:29
qgilin any case if you as a consumer think this is unfair you can rant on ITT but, really, where you should go is to the institutional office (sorry, my English lacks some vocabulary) where you can claim your consumer rights00:31
rowdy_23anyone knows if can i mount a samba partition located in a remote computer from the n800?00:31
qgilI'm not saying this as a Nokia employee and I have no special interest defending Nokia sales here00:31
qgilI'm saying this just as a consumer00:32
milhouseyep, that's what i tend to recommend to people - consult their local trading standards and stand by your consumer rights00:32
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milhouseit just seems unecessary - particularly as the WSoD is an all too common problem so I hope this doesn't continue for months to come. oh well.00:33
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qgiloh well, a problem here is when we mix open source software practices with issues unrelated to the software itself: hardware, guarantees, etc00:34
milhousei'll shut up about hardware. :)00:35
milhouseand guarantees/warranties :)00:35
milhouseit does come up a bit on itt so wondered if you had any inside info - if not, no worries.00:35
qgilthen people expect that Nokia representatives (((I'm not talking about you))) will go to a web forum and answer to issues as if they were hackers00:35
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qgilmilhouse: Nokia people in charge of gathering user satisfactions and etc follow ITT as part as the scanning of web, media, etc00:37
milhousethat's good to know00:37
qgilI'd say all the relevant issues reach the internal target, specially those relating to hardware00:37
milhousethere's a lot of noise there, but also some useful grass roots activity/frustrations/happiness etc00:37
qgilmilhouse: well, that's clear - no doubt about it  :)00:38
pupnikwhy do people who like free operating systems not value freedom?00:38
milhousewrong channel again? ;)00:39
qgilpupnik: freedom is one of the topics that got thinking more the phylosophers of all times - perhaps you want to develop a bit your toughts  ;)00:41
pupnikqgil perhaps you can help me become more developed00:41
qgilpupnik: provide an example00:42
qgilpupnik: if only to help me become more developed00:42
pupnikhabeus corpus00:43
pupniktorture00:43
pupnikdo you like torture?00:43
DaniloCesarLOL!!!00:43
pupnikthere are people who support torture00:44
pupnikin power00:44
milhouseyou mean in the USA?00:44
milhouseland of the free?00:44
pupnikin the usa, germany, europe00:44
qgilpupnik: it's either habeas corpus or habemus papa00:44
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milhousei'd go with habeas corpus myself00:44
pupniki will stop talking, but lets all support lawful government and freedom of speech00:45
qgilin fact only a subset of humans value freedom, and have a very different understanding between themselves about what freedom means00:46
qgilthe rest of species seems to ignore freedom00:46
qgilsome would say that "lawful" is uncompatible with "freedom"  ;)00:47
pupnikdepends on the country qgil00:47
qgiland the ideology00:48
milhousesoooo.... this n800 thing... is it any good?00:48
qgilbut if you are talking about the US, a different system of elections and a less powerful president would definitely help00:49
milhouseChads!!!00:49
* pupnik tips hat to qgil00:49
rowdy_23anyone knows if i can mount a samba partition located in a remote computer from the n800?00:55
milhouseshould be possible00:57
milhousecheck fanoush's site00:57
milhousehttp://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#mmcplus00:57
milhousethere's a ZIP file with nfs, cifs etc.00:58
rowdy_23ok :D, thx for the tip...00:58
milhousealso search itt forums - it's been discussed several times00:59
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amrhow come when i umount my mmc01:02
amrand then reinsert it01:02
amri always get the message that it is corrupt01:02
milhouseevery time?01:02
amri dont think ive seen a time where it hasnt said that01:02
amrif i restart the device with it in its fine01:02
milhousethis is on a 770?01:03
amrand if i restart it without a card and then later insert it, its fine01:03
amryes01:03
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qgilfinally, the blog entry I'm trying to write since... http://desdeamericaconamor.org/blog/node/38701:03
qgilopening #maemo is always risky when you want to be productive   ;)01:04
milhouseyummie01:04
amrhm01:04
qgilthat was just a joke, thanks milhouse and co for the (as usual) productive conversation01:04
milhousemy pleasure :)01:04
amri cant get any files onto my mmc-mobile card either :-(01:05
amrthe 770 can read/write it fine01:05
amrmy usb access to mmc's is flakey at the best of times, regardless of os too01:05
amri can read the files fine, but can only write about 8mb before it freezes up01:05
milhouseis the card any good?01:06
qgilmilhouse: btw, question for you (no hurries) - how you feel about the new http://maemo.org/news/ ?01:06
amrhow do you mean milhouse01:06
amrthe mmc-mobile one?01:06
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amri have 2, both datawrite, one is rs-mmc the other is mmc-mobile01:06
amrthe rs-mmc can be read in my card reader and im currently writing to it and its fine01:07
amrthe mmc-mobile doesnt seem to be properly recognised at all by the reader01:07
milhouseqgil: looks a bit more stylish, main text font renders a little small in ff/xp01:07
amri cant use usb to write to either card01:07
milhouseqgil: i certainly prefer the wider widht and without the hackergotchis01:07
milhouseqgil: and the consistent flow is better - the first article always looked a little odd01:08
qgilwait, the hackergotchis are still in the planet01:08
milhousewhat am i looking at?01:08
milhouseoh hang on01:08
milhouseah01:08
milhousehmm...01:08
amrguess i might try back things up later and wipe all the cards and flash my 77001:08
milhouseqgil: the news page seems to be planet in a different format01:09
milhousewhat's going on? confused :(01:09
qgilit's not, look the sources of the news there: it's a mixture01:09
qgilit is intended to be the single page you will need to follow to get a grasp of whatever is relevant01:09
milhouseyes, it's a superset - a lot of planet articles, plus others... is that wise?01:09
milhouseok01:10
qgilnow, please log01:10
qgilwith your maemo account01:10
milhousei saw the hearts thing... didn't vote for anything :)01:10
milhousei did think - why hearts (a bit cheesy)... why not mini tablets?01:11
qgilwhatever  :)01:11
qgilit's not only the hearts what makes a news go up on the rank and/or stay in the highlights, it's a ombination of factors, including Technoraty reputation, people linking that article in del.icio.us...01:12
milhouseand when i'm not logged in, how do i see the votes? i don't see the hearts when i'm not logged in - should i?01:12
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qgilmilhouse: it's a bug http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181501:13
milhousei think someone has already opened a bugzilla entry for the workflow following a vote - i agree with that, it just leaves you on a page with a text box which is wierd.01:13
milhouseaha, good :)01:13
milhouse(good that it has a bug entry)01:13
qgilanonymous users will see hearts everywhere once this is fixed and once we have adapted the maemo.org home to these news01:13
qgilmilhouse: yeah, that workflow has another bug submitted01:13
qgilthis is what betas are good for  :)01:14
milhousei need to visit news more often :)01:14
milhousei tend to hit planet by default (bookmark)01:14
qgilI'm following it regularly and, as usual, I'm processing a lot of web new pages with "maemo" in it01:14
qgilI'm surprised how clever the algorythm is when "editing"01:14
milhousei like the bugzilla changes - fine with that. i also saw the bug complaining about midgard and wiki - i agree the midgard "wiki" is primitive... should have diffs at least01:14
qgileven when people doesn't fave much as it's happening now01:15
qgilbugzilla changes, i'd like to see them applied in few weeks (and I can talk about deadlines about this)  ;)01:15
qgilthe wiki, yes it's my next battle01:16
milhousethe only thing i'd say about the fixed width - while i understand why it's there, i think it's going to constrain some content (ie. wide tables, long lines of code etc.) which is a shame01:16
milhouseany tables with more than half a dozen columns break out of the fixed width :(01:17
qgilmilhouse: I'm open to discussion as soon as real problems appear01:18
qgilbugzilla went flexible, other components can go flexible as well if needed01:18
milhousebug 139201:19
_MonkeyBug 1392 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=139201:19
milhouseoh great... the BluetoothDUN page has gone :(01:19
milhousethat page had a table that was all over the place! :)01:20
milhouseand had some useful info (what phones were known to work or had problems with tablets).01:20
qgilmilhouse: it's not gone, the content is there but the moin tablet format is not recognized01:21
qgilneed manual fixing (too late for me to go through this today)01:22
qgillet me 2 minutes to see thie BTdun page...01:22
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milhouseodd, it used to be visible - maybe an update supressed it.01:23
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milhouseso markdown doesn't support tables? you have to use html instead? bummer.01:28
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milhouse...and midgard preview is soooo slow01:32
qgilhttp://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1392 updated01:41
qgilmilhouse: on the other hand is usual to get complains about the limitations of creating tables in wikis, in this case if you know html there are no limitations01:42
qgilin fact midgard wiki can digest most HTML (because in its origin it's not a wiki)01:42
qgilthe midgard wiki needs fixing, I agreed with henri a list of changes but they are not done01:43
milhouseyeah... i'm just trying to convert that wiki table to html table - nightmare :)01:43
qgilnext week I will convert this list in public bugs so it's clear what is to be expected from the wiki01:43
milhousei'll try and update the bluetoothdun page using an html table tonight01:44
qgilmilhouse: that one is nightmare yes01:44
qgilthanks01:44
milhousewill keep the same columns for now, but at least get it to display01:44
qgiltime for me to zzzzzzz01:44
milhouseone advantage the wiki notation has over html is that it's easier to edit... this html could get messy :)01:45
milhouseg'night - and thanks again01:45
qgilthanks to you again  :)01:46
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* k8 notte02:02
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red-zackquestion: is it possible to watch youtube or other flashplayer related things on 770? how to install flashplayer? does a portable version exist?02:13
red-zackbtw, hi all, good evening/night02:14
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Luriahmmm02:47
Luriaso im thinking about a 770 for my mom02:47
Luriaanyone tried such an experiment?02:48
erstaziLuria, my mother has used mine before02:48
erstaziLuria, just show her the basics, how to connect with wifi and where the browser is and a few other apps that might interest her, I did the same for my father02:48
Luriaand your mom isnt grace hopper, right?02:48
Luriai see02:48
Luriaand do they use it?02:49
sullyOh dear. I was going to get my parents one and... no. Bad idea.02:49
erstazimy mother dislikes computers, I have to guide her how to copy and paste a URL into an email and how to send the email02:49
Luriaoh my mom is ok on firefox02:50
erstaziLuria, they used mine for an hour02:50
Luriabut not much more02:50
erstaziLuria, the key of success is if they want to learn... anyone can desire but if they want to learn then its different02:50
Luriai guess you are right about that02:50
Luriasully, what happened with you?02:51
sullyI remembered my mother can't yet handle a mouse02:51
Luriaoh02:51
Lurianot the case here.02:51
erstazisully, technically, no one needs a mouse, except for gaming02:52
erstazi*some* games02:52
Luriamy mother is travelling more these days, so was asking about portable email devices02:52
erstaziLuria, honestly, the deals they have on the 770 are great for her02:52
sullyNo need to tell me, I used to do CAD without a mouse in the 90s02:52
erstaziand she can always learn02:52
sullyI used a HTC TyTn and was pretty impressed with it02:52
erstazisully, I am a web developer and thats our main focus is mouse-less user-friendly apps02:53
Luriablackberry, treo, etc... but she doesnt really want to check it on the bus - she wans a computer in miami or st. louis or whereever02:53
sullyhttp://www.europe.htc.com/products/htctytn.html02:53
erstaziLuria, I would let her try it, $130 + free shipping at buy.com is not bad02:53
sullyTouchscreen, QWERTY keyboard, Windows Mobile02:53
Luriayeah. i have a shopping cart ready to go :-)02:53
Luriai like the htcs, but they are pricey and so is the service02:54
sullyhmm, I suppose02:54
Luriawhats the current stability of the 770?02:54
sullyIT 2006 is pretty good02:54
Luriaand 2007he?02:55
erstaziLuria, I use 770/OS200602:55
sullyHaven't tried. I guess you could set that up for her02:55
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sullyYou definitely want to do the boot from MMC and kernel hack to speed it up02:55
erstaziI am more the type to use a stable version before going with OS2007HE02:55
sullyVery annoyingly slow before that02:55
Luriawell, i, like most of you, are tech support :-)02:55
erstaziof course02:55
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Luriai put in wall cat-5 wiring down 8 years ago :-)02:56
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sullyIf I ever buy in this ridiculously expensive city, it will be phone/coax/ethernet to all rooms02:57
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Luriayeah, i have rj-11/rj-45 panels in most rooms, terminating at a hub 5 feet from the multi room stereo02:58
sullyBeen wondering how I could embed a touchscreen PC in the wall of each room02:59
Lurialine -> dsl patch(and split off) ->pbx02:59
Luriacool little system... i have one of these (now)  ancient panasonic digital/analog hybrid pbxs02:59
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Luriaso you can use regular phones too03:00
Luriahow would you be using the touch screens?03:01
sullyView front porch camera, pick music, Internet?03:02
sullyI haven't thought it all the way through03:02
LuriaPoE sound like the way to go03:03
Luriayou may have to hack your own device/frame03:03
* sully nods03:04
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Luriathough i dunno about about the power for the screen03:04
sullyThere are a bunch of microATX computers out there, but all pricey03:04
sullyI've got a few years to figure it out03:04
Luriagumstix03:04
Lurianot uATX03:05
Luriathey arent pricey03:05
Luriabut no poe yet03:07
Luriabut they will, eventually03:07
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Luriawell, pulled the trigger on the 77003:12
Luriaanyone bought a 770 after an n80003:13
Luria(while still owning the n800)03:13
Luriaanyone?03:15
sullyhttp://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1957/august_17_1957_119308.html03:16
sullyThat's amazing.03:16
Luriai saw that simpsons episode03:16
Luriaoh wait thats real03:17
Luria:-)03:17
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erstaziI love when my wife moves my blank cd's03:25
erstaziespecially when she knows I use them every week03:26
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LloydI just got my nokia 770 yesterday... I bought it on a whim, would love to know how to get the most of it.  Does anyone have any suggestions?03:52
Lloydhow do I even check what OS version I'm running?  I've been looking for a while, and can't find it...03:52
sullyControl Panel, Device03:52
LloydInternet Tablet os 2006 :(03:53
Lloydis there an upgrade?03:53
Lloydsully btw, thanks03:54
sullyYeah, but you don't probably want it just yet03:54
sullyHere's my list of applications to get on the 770: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=66&threadid=2072173&highlight_key=y03:54
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Lloydsully, when should I upgrade to 07?03:58
Lloydor the 'hacker version' http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/03:58
sullyWhen they give us an official release :) It should be coming soonish03:58
Lloydahh... so it hasn't been 'officially' released. :) cool03:58
sullyofficial-unofficial anyways03:58
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Lloydyou have everything I need, except vnc.04:00
sullyPeople ooh and aah over my Remote Desktop capabilities, haha04:01
sullyI do need to figure out how to VPN on the 770 though04:01
Lloydthat's why I was going to use ssh, so I could 'safely' browser over open WIFI.04:02
sullyI really want someone to get the IP-over-DNS thing moving.04:02
Lloydhahaha... that would be awesome.04:02
LloydI wonder would that work in starbucks, or if they plugged that hole04:02
erstaziLloyd, I never tried that04:03
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sullyerstazi, was it you who got it working?04:04
Lloyderstazi:  it's a little slower, but heck... I dont watn to transfer my passwords, over unsecured wifi.04:04
erstazisully, I did vnc before but I do that all the time, especially for work04:05
DaniloCesarLloyd, You can use a ssh tunnel in these cases04:07
LloydDaniloCesar:  :) yup... but openssh isn't on the maemo repo. :(04:08
DaniloCesar???04:09
Lloydsays it can't find it04:09
Lloyd"Not Found?"04:09
DaniloCesarIts another name04:09
DaniloCesarlittle ssh or something04:10
Lloydhttp://maemo.org/downloads/search/application.html?org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=description&org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=ssh&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=os&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=IT2007&org_openpsa_products_04:11
Lloydsearch%5B3%5D%5Bproperty%5D=license&org_openpsa_products_search%5B3%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B3%5D%5Bvalue%5D=&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bproperty%5D=status&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bvalue%5D=&fetch=Fetch%2104:11
Lloydoh wow... maemo should probably use some sort of routing + session information. heh.04:11
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sparrdpkg-deb (subprocess): short read in buffer_copy (failed to write to pipe in copy)04:15
sparrim getting that error at random when installing packages with dpkg -i04:15
sparrjust trying again usually fixes it04:15
sparror redownloading the package04:15
sparrwtf?04:15
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Luriasilly maemo page04:40
Luriatimeless, you there?04:40
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BlacksitoxHi all. I have a Nokia n800 and my ISP requires a PPPoE connection over my configured WiFi connection04:41
Blacksitoxwhat are the possibilities to set up a PPPoE connection?04:42
rhysanyone know why themes dont work anymore on the n800? downloaded themes that is.04:42
Blacksitoxor can you tell me some web page, where I can read about configuring the PPPoE?04:42
DaniloCesarSomeone here know if a Palm BT keyboard works fine with N800?04:42
Lloydrhys:  some change in the theme engine, causing imcompatibilities, no work around yet (that I know of)04:43
rhysBlacksitox, your router does pppoe, then the rest of your network is behind your router.04:43
rhysLloyd, ty04:43
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Blacksitoxrhys, yes04:44
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rhysalso, anyone know if theres a tab on the thumbboard04:44
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rhysBlacksitox, then your n800 only has to worry about the authentication with your wifi router.04:45
sullyYou shouldn't need you Nokia 800 to do PPPoE04:46
sullyand I don't know why I said that since it was all just explained, never mind :o04:46
BlacksitoxI do not have to router wifi04:47
Lloydfreakn' battery has lasterd a while, while not being ever charged...   still had charge out of the box... (unopened)04:47
rhysBlacksitox, what is your setup then?04:50
sullyAre you saying that your Internet is provided to you via Wi-Fi?04:50
Lloydis there a better application manager than the default one?04:54
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sullyhaha04:54
sullyLet's not get too ambitious04:55
Lloydit's horrid... I'm used to gnome04:55
sullyA lot on the tablet is rather horrid, unfortunately04:55
sullyWait until you experience the RSS reader04:55
LloydI use the google.com/reader04:55
LloydI got used to that just recently, and it's pretty good.04:55
sullyI really want something for offline reading04:56
rhysi use pacman. its ok04:56
Lloydexcept it's not offline04:56
Blacksitoxrhys, to router ADSL04:56
sullyrhys, what is that?04:56
Lloydwhy's nano-tiny at 1.2.4-5, when nano 2.05 is out? weird.04:56
Lloydwhy would I want php5 on a tablet??04:56
sullyWere there significant advances in the world of text editors?04:57
rhyshe saod he uses gnome. im used to pacman, the arch package manager.04:57
sullyahh04:57
Lloydscully, yeah, enhanced syntax highlighting within nano04:57
Lloyd:)04:57
LloydI know how to use atitude. :)04:58
Lloydand apt-get... which would be less painful than the default.04:58
Lloydjust make myself the text files on the PC, and copy them over.04:58
rhyspacman is apt-get done better04:58
Lloydwhy is there wordpress in the packages?? like... who's going to setup an httpd, php, and wordpress for their tablet?  maybe it's just 'cause I can'... but really... spend that time and effort into something more pleasant.  I can maybe understand php and an httpd deamon... but wordpress as a package05:00
sparrLloyd: me, maybe?05:00
sparrive run daemons and servers of various sorts on handheld devices at LAN parties before05:01
sparrnever anything as complex as wordpress, but thats not outside the realm of possibility05:01
Lloydwhat was the reason for doing so?05:01
sparrbecause i didnt have a spare computer on the LAN to run [whatever]05:01
erstaziI am smoking way too much today05:12
Lloydquit... you'd save so much.05:12
Lloydhow much is a pack where you're at? how many packs a day?05:12
Lloyd* 36505:12
Lloydsay $5, pack a day.  $1825/yr...  that's a whole new kick ass computer.05:13
erstazi$405:13
erstaziand I smoke 10 cigs a day on average05:13
Lloyd25 in a pack?05:13
Lloydor the smalls?05:13
erstazibut yes I know the costs05:14
erstazi20, 100s05:14
Lloydoh... that's only $730/yr... you can buy a crappy laptop for that... :)05:14
erstazihaha05:14
erstaziwell my wife smokes 1.5 packs a day05:15
erstaziand they are $5 a pack05:15
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erstazibut yeah, I know the costs involved, I quit once before when I joined the Army (17 years old) then started up about 3 years ago05:15
erstaziagain05:15
erstaziso I didn't smoke for the longest time05:15
Lloydstressed?05:15
erstaziand I don't even remember why I started again05:16
erstaziwell, now I am05:16
erstazibut thats nothing new05:16
erstazi3 years ago, I don't remember anything or what happened05:16
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Lloydis there firefox for 770?05:18
sullyThere is Mini Mozilla05:19
erstaziminimo?05:19
_Monkeyminimo is (Mini Mozilla) Web browser, a slimmed down version of mozilla browser aiming resource reduced devices. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/minimo/05:19
erstaziLloyd, I have minimo on my OS2006/Nokia 77005:20
* sully gives mplayer a try on his 77005:21
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sullygainroot?05:26
sullyshucks, I was hoping there'd be a bot reply.05:26
straindgainroot is the crutch of the feeble mind.05:30
straindHow's that?05:30
Luriawow05:32
Luriathats odd05:32
Luriai finally got the hebrew keyboard working... but only the small one05:32
Luriaif it goes big, it turns into russian05:32
straindHow do you make it big?05:33
Luriai mean thumbboard05:33
straindHow do you do that?05:33
Luriai think there needs to be an oss font package for nokia05:33
Luriadefault is to hit the center switch on the d-pad when there is a tap keyboard05:34
straindDoesn't work for me in xterm. :(05:35
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straindI keep finding giant keys after I accidentally put it somewhere and it gets roughed up by the kids or some groceries.05:36
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Luriai think you need osso-xterm maemo hackers edition05:37
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Luriatimeless, you there?06:15
Luriaanyone experienced with vkbs?06:17
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sparra web site for submitting photos of windows keys found in the wild, on the side of POS computers and such...  would people use it?  think it would get filled with spam?06:41
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erstazisparr, most definitely06:44
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kreigwooo07:08
kreigI went and got my buggy n800 replaced at the Nokia store and the new one is working like a charm so far07:08
kreigone guy tried to tell me it wasn't designed to pull files from my cell phone over bluetooth07:09
kreigbut I told him if that was the case, then he can take the n800 back and give me all my money back07:09
kreighe siad, "I'll get my product specialist" and the whole thing was resolved 8)07:10
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Lloydwhat country has a nokia store?08:36
rwhitbyFinland?08:38
_Monkeyi guess Finland is closed in July due to holidays. Please come back later ;)08:38
rwhitbyshut up _Monkey08:38
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Lloydheh08:38
LloydCanada doesn't have nokia stores.08:39
Lloydjust sony.08:39
Lloydfirst charge to my nokia 770... how long should I charge it for?08:39
`0660until the battery is full? :)08:40
rwhitbydidn't it say in the manual?08:40
Lloydseriously... who looks at manuals? :)  I probably should... but I haven't08:41
rwhitbywell, it's something to do while you're waiting for the first charge to complete ...08:41
`0660i did08:41
Lloydhahaha08:42
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Abulafiagod damn that took forever08:59
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Luriaput dd-wrt on my router08:59
Luriathank god for open aps in the area...09:00
Blacksitoxbye09:00
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Lloydnoooooooooo! dd-wrt violates GPL09:21
Lloydtry x-wrt.org see #x-wrt09:22
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MonkulusLloyd, if not, what?09:27
Lloyd?09:28
Monkulusoh sorry09:28
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Luria_not dd-wrt09:28
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Luria_guess he needed a better router09:30
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Lynourehi, does anyone know a place where I could get dropbear for n770? I've tried three different sites, all no longer there11:00
LynoureOther non-root requiring ssh-clients are also ok.11:00
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soolekhttp://maemo-hackers.org/apt/pool/main/d/dropbear/11:04
soolekadd repository in app manager http://maemo-hackers.org/apt/ mistral main11:04
soolekand install dropbear using app manager11:05
Lynoureok, I'll try that11:07
Lynoureapp manager is something else than Application installer?11:09
Lynoure(sorry, I'm all new to this device)11:09
soolektools -> application manager11:10
soolekin n770 menu11:10
soolekthen inside app manager choose tools menu -> application catalogue -> new11:11
LynoureI don't have tools in that menu. Utilities, Control panel, Extras etc but no Tools11:11
soolekhow come:) it must be here11:12
LynoureThis could be quite early version... nokia's gift to a dd.11:13
soolekwhich software version do you have? -> control panel -> device -> about product11:13
Lynoure1.2005.42-911:14
soolekyes, that's the reason11:15
soolekthe newest OS version fot 770 is 3.2006.49-211:16
soolekI suggest you first to flash your nokia to the newest os version11:16
LynoureThere is a way to upgrade the OS, I bet? Though I think I need to ask liw first11:16
soolekthere's hardly any new software for the os2005 release11:16
LynoureI'm just borrowing this babe, it's not mine (though I'll get either N770 or N800)11:17
LynoureIs the OS upgrade easy and safe?11:18
soolekyes11:18
LynoureI'll still ask the owner first, but that will help me sell the idea to him11:18
soolekjust make sure you have a battery fully charged11:18
Lynoureok, looks easy enough based on http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux11:20
disqmorning11:20
_Monkeyaloha11:20
Luria_anyone know how to decompile a vkb?11:21
soolekLynoure you can update from windows http://europe.nokia.com/A4144790 (there's a link to the updater) or you can also do it using a linux flasher11:23
Lynouresoolek: I prefer not to use Windows if I can avoid it11:23
soolekI assumed that, but just wanted to let you know :)11:24
LynoureThat's why I'm drooling at this device and not some WindowsCE :)11:24
soolekI have both I like n700 more, but there's much much more software for windows ce11:24
soolekn77011:24
LynoureI am expecting compiling most debian things for this is not impossible if I really miss something. Could be a bit optimistic, though, but I mostly want it for reading pdf, feeds and checking email11:26
soolekLynoure once you reflash to the new os have a try my sources.list http://akson.sgh.waw.pl/~gs20787/n770/sources.list11:27
soolekthere's a lot of usefule software already compiled11:27
soolekhttp://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationcatalog2006/11:30
Lynouresoolek: thank you for the link11:30
soolekno problem11:31
JaffaLynoure: porting debian packages is easier with mud (IMNSHO): http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/11:35
LynoureJaffa: thanks. I'm hoping it will never come to that (too busy with interesting things already to start yet another interesting thing)11:39
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RocketmanDoes anyone know where I can get replacement stylii for the N800? My n800 "slipped" from the slip case and the stylus appears to have disappeared into the nether regions of my bedroom11:39
RocketmanI've heard they are listed on some of the European Nokia online stores, but I can't find it in the US store anywhere11:41
LynoureRocketman: if that happens to be so, I can get them here in Europe and send to you11:41
RocketmanCan you buy them where you are at?11:42
LynoureI live in Finland, so if one can order them somewhere, this ought to be that somewhere11:42
Rocketmanhehe, yeah just barge into Nokia's build and demand some stylii!11:43
RocketmanIf that doesn't work, nothing will11:43
Lynourehttp://direct.nokia.com/Product.aspx?model=StylusN800&u=/Product.aspx?model=StylusN80011:43
RocketmanDon't worry, it's not serious, but it looks like the page you've requested isn't available.11:44
RocketmanTry using our search to find what you were looking for:11:44
RocketmanOr you can click on one of the links below to go to our home page or the last page you were looking at.11:44
LynoureRocketman: I go into one Nokia building occasionally (Toastmasters meet there) =) but a webshop will prolly be the way11:44
Lynourebelow?11:44
RocketmanI basically get an item not found message if I try that item on the US store11:44
LynoureThe Finnish one has them11:45
Lynoure€12.19 for three + delivery.11:45
RocketmanWell, if you can get them I will gladly reimburse you. Can you take paypal?11:45
LynoureRocketman: I think I'd rather take IOU until I find something that only ships to USA =)11:46
Lynouregah, the whole webshop seems broken :(11:47
LynoureIt does not let stuff to be added into the basket11:48
RocketmanI think battering down Nokia's doors sounds like the right approach11:48
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gla55_some forum nokia downloads are offline too11:49
RocketmanLynoure, got an im account on aim or icq?11:51
Rocketmanpming through the server isn't working, as it appears to be blocked for "unregistered" users11:52
Rocketmanapparently due to bot spam11:52
RocketmanHear that _Monkey? My server doesn't like bots11:52
LynoureRocketman: oh, no, I don't use IM at all. but you can message me on otfc or ircnet too11:52
Rocketmanspecially not _Monkey bots11:53
LynoureI don't seem to be able to find a way they'd actually sell stylus on the webstore, but I can call them and ask (assuming you have called them and asked at your end and gotten a "no, we don't have them for you")11:53
RocketmanAnyways, Lynoure, I am happy to ship something from the states to you if you can't get it there11:54
RocketmanI will try to call them on Monday and if I don't get a better answer than 404, I will let you know11:54
RocketmanI've found Nokia's post sale support to be pretty much innept11:54
RocketmanFor Christ's sake, I want to give them money for a couple plastic sticks!11:55
LynoureRocketman: I messaged you my email address, too.11:55
Lynoure:)11:55
LynoureYou could go for stylys-pens. Different, but many like them, and available globally11:55
RocketmanI have plenty of stylii around11:56
RocketmanI have been using PDA's and the like since before 99% of the populace knew what one was11:56
LynoureI have only since 199911:57
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LynoureGone now, email me how it went.11:58
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roopehttp://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone14:51
gla55_maddog rox14:54
gla55_erh maddox14:54
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GuiZmo34sxpert-work :))16:14
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timelessis anyone here alive?16:54
* timeless has a couple of silly questions16:54
sullyhit me16:56
timelesspeople keep complaining about "MicroB" being "selected' in the "Set Engine" menu16:57
timelessis that because they don't understand that the blue "selection" is always assigned to the first _enabled_ menu item when you open a submenu?16:58
timelessand has absolutely nothing to do with anything else....16:58
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* timeless pokes sully17:02
sullyThat's way beyond my knowledge, sorry :)17:02
timelesswell, it's certainly hard for me to expect you to understand how each n800 user thinks17:03
timelessis it at least plausible?17:03
timelesshave you read any comments were people make that statement?17:03
sullyUnfortunately I'm a 770 user; is this still relevant?17:03
timelessheh17:03
sullyno, I've not come across that17:04
timelessthere should be a version for you this week17:04
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disqthat's good news :)17:06
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sullyJust looked it up; very good news!17:07
timelessconsider: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=62523&postcount=16317:08
timelessi think the problem is that people don't understand how menus work17:08
timelessthey also don't understand English17:08
timelesswhich doesn't help matters, but hey...17:09
disq:17:09
sullyhehe17:09
disq:)17:09
disq"Only the direct edit to .browser file will do"17:09
timelessa menu labeled "Set Engine" would never have a checkbox17:09
disqare you sure he's misunderstanding the menus17:09
timelessi'm fairly certain, but i'm asking17:10
timelessbecause i'm not possitive17:10
timelessdisq/sully: you have some application on your nokia770/nokia n800, right?17:11
disqwhat would you like me to test :P17:11
disqi got both devices17:11
* timeless ponders17:11
timelesstry notes?17:11
timelesstap the app menu17:12
disqi could try microb, but ok :P17:12
timelesstap the note menu17:12
disqFormat->Alignment has optionbuttons btw17:12
timelessin the theme i'm using on my 770, the "new" menu17:12
timelessdisq: yes17:12
timelessbut it's not called Format>Set Alignment17:12
disqon n800 it's Alignment17:13
timelessthe 'Set' bit is *important*17:13
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timelessright, nokia is thankfully not stupid enough to use 'Set' in a menu parenting a radio item17:13
disqit's also "Alignment" in n770. UK locale i think, not sure maybe US17:13
timelessright, the localizers are thankfully consistent here17:14
timelessand not that bad17:14
timelessthis menu wasn't designed by a localizer17:14
sullyyep, Alignment on the US locale of the 77017:14
timelessit was designed at the last minute by an engineer17:14
timelessbut it too isn't "Wrong" it follows English rules17:14
timeless"Set Engine" means no radio marks for the children17:14
disqah. the menu in microb hasthe "Set" prefix17:14
disqnow i get it17:14
timeless"Engine" alone would imply radio marks for the children17:14
timelessgood :)17:14
disqso, any chance to fix the browser, remove set, add optionbuttons?17:15
timelessthat's what we're going to do17:15
timelessminor problem though... we need to actually enumerate engines to do that17:16
timelessright now, the list is hard coded17:16
disqah17:16
disqwould take longer to fix :)17:16
timelessso imagine you're using Engine=thrbt17:16
timelessyes17:16
timelesswell, if i switch this to use radios17:16
timelessand the item you're using isn't in the list, *then* what?17:16
timelessand worse17:16
timelessif you *pick* something17:16
timelessand we don't switch *now*17:17
timelesswhat the heck do i show in the menu?17:17
timelesswhat you're using, or what you're going to use?17:17
disqa (Latched) suffix? not sure?17:17
disqthat's a big problem17:17
* timeless nods17:18
disqok then, go easy17:18
disqkeep the set17:18
timelessthat's the bigger reason for me not to change it17:18
timelessuntil i can solve that, anything else is worse17:18
disqadd an insensitive "Current: <engine>" item at the top17:18
timelesshrm17:18
* timeless likes that17:18
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timelesscould i ditch current and just have the top item be checked w/ a seperator?17:18
timeless....17:18
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timelessSet Engine> [/] Opera17:19
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disqmmm17:19
timeless          |     --------17:19
timeless          |     MicroB17:19
timeless          |     Opera17:19
timelessi'm not quite sure that'll work though17:19
disqyeah17:19
timelesspeople will still not understand what's going to happen when the restart17:19
disqan insensitive checked checkbox? or a check icon, whatever.. will be confusing17:20
timelessi think i'll just right a release note explaining what the menu does and does not do17:20
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timelessEngine>Current>Opera17:20
timelessEngine>Next Launch>[/]Micro17:20
disqor.. just.. add a " (current)" suffix?17:20
Blacksitoxhi17:20
timeless                   |  Opera17:20
timelesscurrent doesn't solve the problem17:21
disqthat's better but it's too much clutter :)17:21
* timeless nods17:21
disqalso, open tabs in background? where is it :P17:21
timelesswe should have just not included the menu17:21
* timeless chuckles17:21
disqmaybe, but it's handy17:21
disq(i would still prefer seperate windows for opera and ff engines though)17:21
timelessyou're greedy17:22
disqwell. i am17:22
timelesseven QNX didn't manage that one17:22
timelessit's a standard "feature" of integrated interchangable engines17:22
timelesshowever, i'm not actually certain you can't do it17:22
timelessi seem to recall even in QNX you /could/ run a different engine for a different app17:22
disqi only used the free 1.44meg floppy version of qnx17:23
* timeless used 617:23
disqthen went back to my OS/2 Warp 3.0 :P17:23
timelessheh17:23
disqOS2 was fun17:23
timelessi switched between QNX6.0, BeOS5, OS/2 Wrap 4.017:23
timelessoh, w/ Solaris 8 thrown in for good measure17:24
disqBeOS.. i remember beos.. it had funny colors i think17:24
timelessNokia colors are funnier17:25
timelessalthough it's true the default was yellow17:25
timelessbut one of nokia's defaults was orange17:25
timelessanother was red17:25
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disqit2006 colors? yeah. i liked orange until n800 came along with the black (adria?) theme17:26
disqi also love the music in n770 spotlight video17:27
sullyLCARS theme > *17:27
* sully laughs17:27
disqhttp://europe.nokia.com/A4145106 this video :)17:28
timelessi hope it doesn't require flash17:28
timelessoh wait, it's nokia.com, who am i kidding?17:28
sullyoh the irony17:29
timelessoh, it's ok, i'm saved by the fact that my dns doesn't work for *.nokia.com :)17:29
timelessi'm a browser engineer, i hate flash17:29
disqyeah. and the banners17:29
timelessoh, and btw, whoever claims the nokia maemo flash 9 impl is complete is smoking something17:29
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timelessthere's unfortunately only one reference in ITT that i've found to the countrary17:29
timelessbut i predicted it17:30
timelessand told people internally before they wrote that bs announcement17:30
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timelesswell, actually, we removed that page from the browser announcement :)17:30
disqi still have flash disabled in my n800 browser17:30
timelessit's disabled in my 770 here :)17:31
timelessi actually added flash to my firefox earlier to try to view a video stream from some blog17:31
timelessi couldn't find the video ;(~17:31
disqif the flash threads could be reniced then i would consider enabling it17:31
disqbut default priority is too high17:31
timelessit runs in process17:31
timelesswhich means browser is also blamed for their crashes17:32
timelessand memory behavior and ...17:32
disqneed embedded mplayer flash replacement17:32
disqthough i think mplayer's only good for flv17:32
disqbtw, i don't think flash banners can be fixed17:33
timeless?17:33
disqthey just suck up the resources17:33
timelessi use noscript on my firefoxes17:34
disqthere are some banners even opera/ffox on a regular pc can't handle (mouse pointer goes away.. or it updates the canvas so frequently that textarea i-beam flashes faster)17:34
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timelessok, i'm confused17:38
timelessi really can't reach europe.nokia.com17:38
timelessif you do a dnslookup, what do you get?17:38
disq147.243.3.8317:38
timelesssame here17:38
timelessi presume you can reach tat?17:39
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disqare you in the corporote LAN? i can reach it17:39
disq(or corporate, even)17:39
timelessmy laptop is *normally* in it, yes17:39
disqit's not now? and won't work? that's weird17:40
disqarp cache?17:40
timelessbut i only have 192, 127, 169, addresses17:40
timelessarp's my guess17:40
timelessbut i don't really speak arp17:40
disqjust clear/flush the arp table :)17:40
timeless>arp -a17:40
timelessInterface: 192.168.255.3 --- 0x317:40
timeless  Internet Address      Physical Address      Type17:40
timeless  192.168.255.1         00-13-49-68-a1-cd     dynamic17:40
timeless--17:40
disqthough i think it only.. yeah..17:40
disqi was going to say that. :)17:41
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timeless>?17:41
disq$?17:41
disq:P17:41
disqhave you tried a traceroute?17:41
timelessyes17:41
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timeless>tracert -d 147.243.3.8317:41
timelessTracing route to 147.243.3.83 over a maximum of 30 hops17:42
timeless  1     *        *        *     Request timed out.17:42
timeless>tracert -d www.mozilla.org17:42
timelessTracing route to www-mozilla-org.glb.mozilla.com [63.245.213.14]17:42
timelessover a maximum of 30 hops:17:42
timeless  1     7 ms     6 ms     6 ms  88.115.0.117:42
timeless....17:42
disqyou could try restarting the gateway17:42
timeless?17:43
disqmodem, ap, whatever17:43
timelessgateway = router? that works fine for e.g. morg17:43
disqagh.17:43
disqno more ideas :/17:43
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Emh5945I need help with pidgin on my n77017:45
Emh5945Please, somebody?17:46
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pupnik_ Vivi got magician shoes!18:01
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Blacksitoxtraductor english to spanish for n800 ?18:44
timelessgoogle18:45
_Monkeyi guess google is my friend18:45
disq_Monkey: lol18:46
_Monkeydisq: sorry...18:46
disq_Monkey: don't forget google18:46
_Monkeydisq: what?18:46
timeless_monkey lol is <reply>18:46
_MonkeyOK, timeless.18:46
pupnik_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Machine_Translation_software18:47
Blacksitoxtimeless, one application,18:47
timelessgoogle does translation...18:47
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Abulafiatimeless, still there?18:58
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mk8Hi to all .... sorry for my silly question (and for my bad english of course ...  :( ) about 2 mounth ago someone told me that a new relese on OS for N800 will be relased and this version broke the API compatilibty but align all the library used to the last available. My information is correct? And if true this version is the last that it is released at the beginning of august?19:13
Luriaits sorta true19:15
sparrwon a tablet at auction19:15
sparrbut i cant really afford to keep it  :(19:16
sparrgonna end up having to sell it19:16
Luriathere was an alpha sdk release for maemo 4 earlier this month19:16
Luriamk8, google "chinook n800"19:16
Luriasome parts of chinook have been released as beta (micrb, rtcomm) but as yet, it isnt really out19:18
mk8Ok Luria, so this version will be an major version upgrade of the OS19:19
Luriayes19:19
mk8you know when this OS will be out?19:19
Luriaplus switch to a packaging, and not a flash, upgrade system19:19
Luriano idea19:19
mk8the N800 hardware must be upgrade?19:20
Lurianew versions of maemo in the past required flashing and thus clearing the system19:20
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Luriano they are using a desktop (downloading packages) approach19:21
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Luriaas a guess tho, since 3.2 was out in july, i wouldnt expect the new maemo 'til fall19:21
Luriathere is at *least* one more major firmware update confirmed after that19:22
mk8as usual, I just update to the 2007.26-8 version19:22
sparrso upgrade on new n800 firmware will be a simple apt-get dist-upgrade?  :)19:22
Luriathats the idea, supposedly19:23
Luriaone sec19:23
Luriabrb19:23
mk8no sparr ... in the other case you must download the image and install on the N800 .... obviously you lost all the data and the application.19:24
mk8For the data you can use the backup utility19:24
mk8but for the application you must redownload and reinstall again19:24
sparrmk8: i think that luria is saying that way is going away19:26
disqno. the next firmware (4.0) will be flashed. updates to 4.0 are planned to use the dist-upgrade method19:26
sparrwhich is a good thing...  there is no reason to require a reflash with a debian-based device19:27
Luriaim sorry, i should have been clearer19:27
sparri can only dream that they will stop ignoring the 770 long enough to backport SOME of that19:27
Luriadisq is correct19:27
Luriameh, just ordered a 77019:27
disqsparr: afaik a new release of the os2007on770 is around the corner19:28
mk8disq: in the 3.2 version I must use the flasher utility. If for the 4.0 version I can use apt-get I'm happy ... :)19:28
disqyou won't be able to dist-upgrade from 3.2 to 4.0, sorry19:28
kreigis dropbear-server the recc. way to get a ssh server running on my n800?19:29
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sparrkreig: i prefer openssh for feature completeness19:30
disqyou can install dropbear-server or openssh (apt-get install ssh) they both work19:30
disqi use openssh too19:31
kreigok, I prefer openssh as well19:31
kreigI'm not familiar with these smaller devices19:31
kreigso I didn't know if I needed to be running stripped down versions of alot of stuff19:31
kreigoh man19:34
kreigso nice19:34
kreigis there a version of xterm that is optimized for input on this device?19:35
kreigbeing able to do "up arrow" or alt-p would be nice19:36
mk8I use osso-xterm that work fine19:36
disqxterm?19:36
_Monkeyxterm is the enhanced version of osso-xterm from maemo-hackers. It adds font and color selection support, URL opening through context menu, and a sidebar with additional keys such as Ctrl+letters. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/osso-xterm-advanced or http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/download/maemo/xterm/debs/ for an alternate onscreen keyboard19:36
disqgood _Monkey19:36
kreigsweet19:37
pupnik__Monkey: openlogos is a language translator http://logos-os.dfki.de/#mozTocId41555919:37
_MonkeyOK, pupnik_.19:37
disqjust navigate to maemo-hackers.org though it's easier to tap-type :P19:37
kreigI hae got a good grip on the hadwriting input, but xterm don't like that19:37
pupnik_krieg, use the dpad for up-arrow19:38
kreigdoh!19:38
pupnik_hehe19:38
disqah, that too.19:38
kreigapt-get install wireless-tool; drool19:40
kreigi remember hacking debian packges in like 199819:40
kreignow it's on this little tiny machine, instead of the Sun ultra 1E19:40
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sparrkreig: http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/download/maemo/xterm/xterm-screenshot-1.png19:45
sparrive switched to that xterm so i can have ctrl and alt and such19:46
sparralso so i can have a larger terminal19:46
kreigdude19:46
kreigerc in emacs19:46
kreigyou run that normally on your n800?19:47
kreigthat is my usual env on my desktop19:47
kreigwhat I am in now 8)19:47
sparrn77019:48
kreigyah, just saw, it is for 2006 os and n77019:48
kreigI am not fmailiar with how much compatability I should expect19:49
sparralmost anything for 2006 will run on 200719:49
kreigi am running n800 and 4.200719:49
sparrsome things for 2007 will run on 200619:49
kreigthat's kesl19:49
kreigkewl19:49
kreigi guess libc and all the core shit has been stable for awhile19:49
sparri hate developers who make packages that Depend on things they dont really need.  i keep downloading debian armel packages that "Depend" on libc6 2.5.5 and wont install because we have 2.3.5...  and they work just fine19:49
kreigthey must be using a debhelper and now hand-checking the deps19:50
sparrive actually got dummy equivs packages on my 770 to provide libc6 2.5.5 and debianutils and coreutils19:50
sparrand a handful of other things19:50
kreigI need another AP in my house19:52
sparri need an ap in my car with a clearwire antenna  :)19:53
sparri could almost get rid of my cell phone19:53
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sparrim in range of my car over 95% of the time19:53
kreigwow, I am totally floored19:54
sparr?19:56
kreigthe xterm with the kbd overlay19:58
kreigand the fact that this is a little debian box19:58
sparrheh19:59
sparri encountered a guy with a sony mylo the other day19:59
sullyNeat isn't it?19:59
mk8I go out .... syl19:59
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sparrthey have a slicker GUI...  but i put his "runs on linux" to shame with my xterm and apt-get19:59
sparrid kill for the mylo's keyboard though20:00
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sparrthere are so many handheld devices in the $100-$150 range that have decent dev/poweruser/hacker communities20:00
sparrwhy wont one company make a single awesome $200 handheld?20:01
kreigit'll take awhile to figure out what it what20:01
sparrtouch screen, slide/flip/fold thumbkeyboard, respectable d-pad, buttons on BOTH SIDES, at least one SD slot20:01
sparrthis isnt rocket science20:01
kreigoh, form, yah, seems reasonable20:02
disqanybody else having problems with OGG support in n800? i installed the package(s) but it (it being osso media player/server) still won't play20:02
sparrdisq: reboot20:02
disqdid reboot20:02
sparroh  :(20:02
sparrbeats me then20:02
sully320x240 resoltunion on the Mylo20:02
sullyholy typo20:03
sparrsully: i could live with 320x240 if a device got everything else right20:03
sullyAgreed, but it'd make web surfing difficult20:03
sparrdisagree.20:03
kreigfor me the screen res is essential20:03
kreigI am already suffering enough from monitors20:03
kreigI don't want to go blind any faster than I am now 8)20:03
sparra GOOD 6pt font on a screen with large pixels can cram a crapload of text onto a low resolution20:03
kulvedisq: the built-in player doesn't support ogg (afaik)20:04
pupnik_disq i remember seeing something about MIME settings?  i may be thinking of the wrong thing20:04
pupnik_ah20:04
sparri had no problem surfing the web on my asus pda, with 240x320 resolution20:04
sullyNeed that touchscreen too20:04
pupnik_feh20:04
sparryeah, touchscreen is a must20:04
disqosso-media-server won't play ogg (launched via dbus) either20:04
disqsame code works fine on 770 with mogg20:04
sullyThe HTC TyTn comes very very close to me20:04
sparrthe only thing about the mylo that i envy is the keyboard and the sd slot20:04
sparrrelative to the 77020:04
disq(in mogg's case, ogg length is not reported with the get_position call, but that's another story)20:04
sparrdisq: i noticed the position lacking in kagu...  was gonna mention it  :)20:05
sullyHTC TyTn: Touchscreen, QWERTY, Wifi, cell phone, but unfortunately no GPS20:05
sullyAnd, well, Windows Mobile 5 needs work20:05
sparrcell phone is a maybe for me.  if they can cram it in cheap, sure.20:05
sullyIt's nice when we don't have Wifi spread out all over20:05
kreigi got a new cellphone yesterday that I can use DUN thru20:05
sparrso far id rather have my cell phone in the other pocket20:05
kreigbut I haven't got it working yet20:06
sparrand have a single handheld for everything else20:06
kreigunfortunaely, it keeps asking for confirmation whenever I wanna DUN pair20:06
sparrcell phone + camera, pda + games + web20:06
disqsparr: i managed to get the current position working, but it won't seek without knowing the length of the track20:06
kreigI would like it to work with the cellphone in my backpack20:06
sparrdisq: interesting.  happy/sorry to have inspired the attempt  :)20:06
sullyMaybe I'll get an 800 at some point20:07
sullyThe 770 with the MMC card boot and kernel hack for speed is pretty good for now20:07
kreigif only my camera did bluetooth 8)20:07
sullyRight now I've got to get people at work to try to set up IP over DNS20:08
sparrkernel hack for speed?  link20:09
sullyhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=734220:09
sullyI followed weezedog's instructions20:10
sullyoh, make damn sure your card supports the higher speeds20:10
sullyKingston 2GB card here does20:10
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kreigis there a recc. 8 gig card?20:15
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disqso, anybody up for designing a teletubbies theme on the n800? *cracks whip*20:18
trevarthanYeah, does anyone here have OGG working on the n800?20:20
disqteletubbies theme is more important20:21
sparrsully: damn.  im not flashing again, hope someone packages that20:22
trevarthanteletubbies theme? Are you mad?20:22
pupnik_otherwise known as Windows XP theme20:23
disqof course we'll need emulated teletubby sounds and soundeffects since we can't use the bbc ones20:23
trevarthanPo!20:23
disqvacuumcleaner! scaryphone!20:24
kreighaha!20:25
kreigtook over my screen sess from my n80020:25
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pupnik_i'd like to see 770s/800s in hospitals for ppl to surf the web from bed20:25
kreigare my words realy small now?20:25
disqpupnik_: somebody actually blogged about it.. or a forum post in ITT i think. last year or so20:26
trevarthankreig: no. IRC doesn't have font support.20:26
kreigi could be in the loo and you would never know!20:26
trevarthanI'm naked.20:27
sparri use my 770 on the toilet  :)20:27
trevarthan(not really)20:27
sparrfor reading and surfing and irc20:27
disqi stress-test kagu on the toilet all the time (well.. i should choose my words carefully)20:27
sparrkagu vs canola...20:28
sparropen source, not20:28
sparralbum covers, not20:28
sparr..., decent volume and seek control20:28
disqlol20:28
sparr:(20:28
kreigwhich isnot open?20:28
sparrkreig: canola20:28
_Monkeywell, canola is just even more worthless with shared forlders than the mplayer frontend20:28
sparr..., upnp support20:28
trevarthansparr: stop bitching and code it yourself.20:28
sparrtrevarthan: working on it :-p20:28
trevarthanwe just closed 17 tickets yesterday. :) no way I've had time to do the volume stuff.20:29
sparrme and pygame are becoming intimately acquainted20:29
sparrconsidering doing pyweek (poorly)20:29
trevarthanyeah. it's got a learning curve.20:29
disqupnp support in canola is not bad, but mediastreamer rocks about that. hope they don't fubar it up like they did with the n770's default media player20:29
kreigso do i have to run as user?20:29
trevarthankreig: yes20:29
sparrkreig: running things as root is a bad idea, because some developers who shall remain nameless do not consider that you might run them that way :-p20:30
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sparrdisq: i agree, mediastreamer is my upnp client of choice20:30
trevarthanI have zero interest in Upnp because it never works for me. go figure.20:30
sparri wonder if there is a upnpfs driver anywhere, to make it transparent to non-upnp apps20:30
sparrlike smbfs20:30
kreigi meant could imake my own user account and replace "user"20:30
sparrkreig: no20:31
sparrkreig: Bad Things(TM) will happen where devs have hardcoded /home/user...20:31
disqi don't use it upnp much because wifi reception from the bedroom is poor on the opposite/empty side of the bed20:32
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kreigwoo20:37
kreigsshed into the little fucker20:37
kreigtoo kewl20:40
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hashtxsomeone had problem with intltool in scratchbox?21:17
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hashtxwhen i try to build a deb package it says that it's and old version but it's not21:18
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hashtxconfigure: error: Your intltool is too old.  You need intltool 0.23 or later.21:23
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pupnik_what target hashtx?21:35
pupnik_rather what os?21:35
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Gorion1someone knows what links are essential inside sources.list in scratchbox22:14
Gorion1?22:14
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pupnikthat depends on what environment you have - gregale or bora22:15
Gorion1bora22:16
Gorion1i've installed scratchbox apophis with arm22:17
* erstazi loves scratchbox22:17
pupniki think the essentials are already there22:17
Gorion1but not by the script .. with the tarballs22:17
pupnikif you are missing a library, do a web search for *.deb + maemo22:18
pupniki don't have bora here yet - still building with gregale (since i don't use much of the OS)22:18
Gorion1i think it is deb http://repository.maemo.org/ bora free non-free22:19
Gorion1but i'm not sure22:20
Gorion1installing by the tarballs it comes with links to etch debian only22:20
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pupnikafaik the sources.list is installed not by scratchbox tgzs but by the target OS rootfs22:22
Gorion1but i have to install rootstrap?22:23
Gorion1i ve skiped this22:24
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pupnikyou need a maemo rootfs to build maemo apps22:26
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pupnikwb unique31122:26
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pupnikscratchbox doesn't come with the target filesystem - you could install scratchbox and then build things for (i dunno exactly ) zaurus or other operating systems22:27
unique311hello22:28
keesjhi22:29
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Gorion1but where i get a rootfs? ive installed a toolchain for arm .. i am logged in this target22:29
Gorion1i have maemo-sdk-rootstrap_3.1_armel but i didn't installed in this target its necessary?22:31
pupniki don't want to give incorrect advice - but afaik i installed the Maemo_Dev_Platform_rootfs_Nokia_Binaries22:32
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keesjGorion1: it depends on what you want do do, in the 3.1 there are 3 part, sbox , the rootstrap, and the nokia binaries22:35
keesjI never had to install the binaries22:35
keesjwith 3.2 I don't understand it any more, one of those components is gone the roofs?22:37
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Gorion1keesj: i want to test applications for n700. i supose i need the maemo rootstrap in this case yes?22:39
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jjo_Gorion1: you didn't ask me but yes22:40
jjo_with scratchbox of course22:40
lle2keesj: I think it tries some sort of apt-get upgrade thing, "automatically"22:40
jjo_but actually 3.1 used scratchbox and had rootstraps, nokia binaries and rootfs22:41
jjo_3.2 has only repositories and nokia binaries22:41
Gorion1the problem was that i've installed maemo3.1 by the sh script and then the 3.2.. but every time i was trying to build deb packages the stopped saying that intltool was too old.. and it was the lastest version22:41
jjo_rootstraps are replaced by the upgrade process and rootfs was just plain dropped22:41
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keesjlle2: yes, it creates a list of supposed packages.22:42
lle2keesj: makes it awful to try to test sb2 against it22:43
Gorion1i see22:43
keesjjjo_: thanks for the info.22:43
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lle2keesj: it requires sb1 + 3.1 rootstrap to get going, but the rootstrap basically lacks everything that apt-get needs to work22:43
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Emh5945I need help with pidgin on my n77022:44
keesjlle2: indeed, why not use the smae trick you used for running on the system itself , so determine the packages from a running device or is that to messy?22:44
lle2keesj: sure, the target image would be useful, but it's not available as a tarball, fetching the contents from the jffs2 image is not trivial22:45
lle2sb2 can't use host apt or dpkg for installing, unlike sb122:46
lle2sb2 would need the buildroot to contain a working target apt and dpkg22:46
lle2been asking for that for a few months now, maybe some day22:47
Emh5945Can someone help me with pidgin on my n77022:48
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Gorion1lle2: how did you installed you environment.22:49
Gorion1?22:49
erstaziEmh5945, I personally prefer gaim on my n77022:49
Emh5945I have tried both, and pidgin used to work but it suddenely stopped working22:49
keesjlle2: I guess it would not be such a problem if you could "just" create your own22:49
erstaziEmh5945, but my suggestion is make sure you download and install the protocols that you need, the actual Pidgin app only comes with the container, you personally need to download and install the protocols22:49
erstaziEmh5945, ah it was working but now its not, any error messages? any warnings?22:50
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* keesj still has a broken browser on his n800 :(22:50
lle2Gorion1: I've not used sb1 for many years now, so don't ask me :)22:50
Emh5945I did install the prtocols, it was working fine then while i was using it it crashed and t no longer opens22:50
erstaziEmh5945, reinstall pidgin22:51
erstaziand the protocols22:51
kupesoftI'm thinking about getting the n800, but proper wireless injection stuff is *rather* important to me, since I do work in that field. I know the built-in 802.11 adaptor doesn't support it, but is there any reason I couldn't use a wireless USB dongle and compile my own drivers?22:51
Emh5945I have reinstalled it three times along with the protocols22:51
Gorion1i'am having a painfull error with intltool i removed and when i tried to reinstall it didnt find a package for it22:51
keesjGorion1: what os are you running?22:52
Gorion1ubuntu22:52
lle2kupesoft: if your dongle can get its power from somewhere other than n800, then maybe. the host patches are experimental though22:52
Gorion1but the error occurs inside scratchbox. it says that intltool is too old22:53
kupesoftlle2: Ah, it's powerless?22:53
Gorion1i don't know if intltool already comes with sbox or with the rootstrap22:54
lle2kupesoft: the battery gives use ~4V max, no way to really get meaningful 5V source22:54
Emh5945I've already tried reinsalling it along with the protocalls22:55
keesjNo, it's not powerless not on the n800 but it doe snot give much power22:55
kupesoftDo usb wireless dongles need more than 4V?22:55
keesjlle2: there was some charge pump but you are right I messured only 3,6 volt on the host22:56
lle2Gorion1: I think the intltool comes from sb122:57
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lle2Gorion1: not at all sure though, but it would be the sb1 way22:58
lle2Gorion1: you can maybe install your own intltool to /host_usr inside sb1, depends if it's worth the trouble22:59
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lle2Gorion1: use host-gcc to compile it if necessary22:59
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Emh5945Help with pidgin on n770 PLEASE23:01
kupesoftwhat wireless driver does the n800 use?23:01
kupesoftOr is it proprietary?23:01
Gorion1lle2: thanks ill try it23:02
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amrEmh5945, whats up23:03
Gorion1lle2: but where is located host_gcc ?23:03
Emh5945Pidgin used to run fine then when i waas using it it crashed and it no longer opens, i have reinstalled it and protocols23:04
lle2Gorion1: inside sb1, say host-gcc23:04
lle2Gorion1: doesn't matter how your target is configured, it'll always do the same23:04
Siliciumare USB hostmode for N800 currently not availble?23:05
lle2Gorion1: so do something like this: CC=host-gcc ./configure --prefix=/host_usr && make && make install23:05
matmoevening all. 770 with HE, cannot install/uninstall anything. Even tried as root using "dpkg -r mplayer" but get "error in /var/lib/dpkg/status near line 9061 package osso-applet-textinput-l10n-ruru"23:05
keesjlle2: by default host-gcc is not installed on 3.123:06
lle2keesj: it isn't? oh my...23:06
lle2Gorion1: as I said, ignore everything I say, things seem to have, um.., evolved?23:07
keesjlle2: every new release is getting harder and harder to install.23:08
keesjperhaps not harder but it's constantly changing23:08
lle2keesj: survival of the fittest, aye?23:08
pupnikmatmo - you can fix that file by hand, or restore from a backup23:08
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pupnikmatmo: check that directory for backup file - run a diff between them23:09
matmook, trying now23:10
kupesoftCan anyone tell me what driver is used for the n800's wireless adaptor, lspci or otherwise...?23:10
pupnikkupesoft: i don't know - perhaps lsmod would show it23:11
Emh5945Pidgin used to work fine then it crashed while i was using it and now i fails to load, i have reinstalled it along with protocols it doesnt work23:11
keesjkupesoft: search on garage there is page for the driver. it has been updated recently23:11
* pupnik doesn't know pidgin23:11
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N800pidgins are flying rats in NYC23:12
N800nasty animals23:12
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Gorion1lle2: it worked uhauhauha23:14
matmopupnik: thanks! Now anybody know which mplayer to use on HE, ie, the 770 or 880 release?23:14
* keesj goes walking the dog23:15
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pupnik77023:16
pupnikafaik23:16
matmook23:16
Emh5945Come on i need help please23:16
matmopupnik: out of interest, do you know what corrupts "status" file?23:17
pupnikno - i had that error, googled the answer and that's about it23:17
matmook, at least mplayer is now trying to do something :-)23:18
matmo...but I think it's hung :-(23:19
matmoah no, back now but no play .flv23:19
pupnikis there a brand new it2007he out?23:20
matmo...but is player canola vid ok :-)23:20
matmopupnik: not when I checked a few hours ago23:20
pupnikok23:21
matmoapart from the 770 installed vid this is the first time I have had one running on the 770 - neat! Better than I was led to believe23:22
amris it normal for kagu scanner to lock up my device?23:22
Gorion1lle2: thanks know i can build deb packages.. the host-gcc comes with my 3.123:23
kupesoftkeesj: I'm having trouble finding said page,23:23
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ssvbmatmo: also try '-nosound' or '-ao esd -ac ffmp3' options with mplayer to narrow down the problem23:25
pupniknice to see you ssvb... hope you're doing well :)23:26
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matmossvb: thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a go. The problem one is just a test dl from youtube. Next to try xvid23:26
ssvbpupnik: thanks, I'm fine23:27
ssvbmatmo: hangs are most likely related to audio output, flv or xvid hardly will make any difference (though trying more videos will definitely not harm)23:28
pupnikis the audio problem related to the it2007he dspsound/pcm3 -> pcm2 problem?23:29
matmossvb: yep "-nosound" gets the vid running23:29
ssvbpupnik: there were (and maybe still are) problems with fast starting/stopping gstreamer pipeline on N80023:30
amri just make my vids work with the inbuilt player23:31
amram i missing out or something23:31
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ssvbpupnik: mplayer now uses 100 milliseconds delay before resuming playback as a workaround, maybe on 770 it does not work properly23:32
amrok this doesnt look good, my 770 can connect fine to my wireless network23:32
amrbut trying to get a website i get 'Network problem'23:32
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ssvbpupnik: probably the best solution would be free mp3 and vorbis decoders running on DSP in order to get rid of this gstreamer hack23:34
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matmossvb: other option doesn't get sound. No prob, I'll check it later. The canola vid is flv so must be something about the utube one. Most my own vids are in xvid.23:35
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pupnikagree ssvb23:36
ssvbpupnik: proprietary DSP codecs have one more disadvantage, there is no way to get decoded audio back from DSP which makes them unsuitable for A2DP23:36
pupniki blame TI :)23:37
pupnikalso the lugnuts who hold the mp3 patents23:37
amrugh what the hell is up with my 77023:37
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ssvbpupnik: I wonder if mp3 patents are valid in Europe? Also Nokia probably already paid "protection money" for mp3 patents for us23:40
Gorion1can i install from scratchbox using the install file on maemo site?23:40
amrany one any idea why i can connect to the access point fine23:42
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amryet cant go on any sites23:42
amryet i can on my laptop23:42
amrdoing nslookup google.com23:43
amrresults in23:43
amrServer: Nokia770-4923:43
amrAddress: 127.0.0.123:43
amrthen nslookup freezes23:43
amrand i have to ctrl-z23:43
ssvbpupnik: as for DSP, there seems to be lots documentation about it and a free toolchain, at least it should be possible to use DSP just as a number crunching device without the need to access any peripherials23:44
amranyone at all?23:44
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amrargh23:47
amrshould i flash it?23:47
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pupnikssvb: yes lardman and kulve have been experimenting with this23:49
kreigamr: could it be that your laptop has the DNS server hardcoded?23:49
kreigamr: and the AP is not giving the n770 it's DNS server info, or giving it incorrecly?23:49
amrwell i cant go to local ip's either23:50
kreigah, when it connects does it so "Link-Local" anywhere?23:50
kreigtry disconnecting and re-connecting and see if it says that23:50
amroh wait23:50
amri can23:51
amri can connect to local ip's23:51
amri tried reconnecting, and restarting the 77023:51
amrhm23:51
ssvbpupnik: BTW, I have found some sources for libmad port to C55x DSP, they also use dspgateway (http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.mad.devel/645)23:52
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amrright ill try resetting the router as i think its frozen23:52
ssvbpupnik: did not try to compile them yet though23:52
pupnikbeing able to compile c code for the dsp makes it interesting for many applications23:53
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pupnikvery exciting stuff - does omap 2420 share same dsp as 1710?23:54
ssvbpupnik: sure, it could be used as some kind of 2D accelerator for graphics23:55
ssvbpupnik: yes, it is, but dsp in omap 2420 is clocked at lower frequency, so it might be slower than dsp from 770 (memory speed can make the difference too, so I'm not sure)23:56
pupnikdid you write those ASM blitting tests in sdl?23:57
pupniki downloaded them somewhere - a few of the modes gave vertical bars23:58
ssvbpupnik: no, which ones?23:58
ssvbpupnik: are they at least fast?23:58
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pupniksearching23:59

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