IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-08-14

MoRpHeUzpupnik: results on n800 for this psx emu ?00:00
pupniknone yet00:00
unique311bout to test it out00:01
unique311need to get it installed00:01
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MoRpHeUzunique311: =)00:02
pupnikif you go into the cpu config, disable XA decoding and CD Audio if it isn't yet00:02
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pupniki was amazed to see pcsx only taking up 24% of memory00:04
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unique3111.3 tops on the 77000:05
unique311so 2.6 on the n80000:05
unique311maybe00:05
pupnikall depends on the game00:06
sparrsome games on the psx are hella light00:06
sparrand some arent  :)00:06
sparrgo try wipeout on an emulator00:06
pupnikdid you ever find any public domain/freeware psx games sparr?00:08
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sparrhttp://www.zophar.net/roms.phtml?op=show&type=psx00:10
pupnikty00:11
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pupnikcarnival intro runs sort of00:14
pupnik2fps or so00:14
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sparrtry zelda?00:15
pupnikk00:15
sp3000hmm00:17
sp3000guillem++ re categories00:17
sp3000who uses that stuff :)00:18
* sp3000 is such a hierarchy hater00:18
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timelessModification of non-creatable array value attempted, subscript -100:20
timelessyum00:20
timelesssp3000: categories?00:20
sp3000appman00:20
timelesssp3000: i kicked the skype people today00:21
timelesshopefully they'll stop polluting application manager00:21
sparrheh00:22
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timelessbtw, if you guys have bugs that you see, please either file them or poke me00:22
timelessi'll gladly kick people internally00:22
sparrapp man behavior has become a nonissue for me...  im either in red pill mode or running synaptic instead00:22
timelessit's not hard, most people are close at hand00:22
timelesswhich reminds me00:22
* timeless needs to file a bug against app manager00:23
timelessit seems that if you give it an install file00:23
timelessand one of the repositories in apt is unavailable, app manager forgets what it was supposed to install00:23
timelessor at least, that's the rumor i heard00:23
sparrapp manager misbehaves is ANYTHING is wrong with apt00:23
sparrmeta-bug  :)00:23
sparrs/is/if/00:23
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timelessoops00:25
* timeless chuckles00:25
timelessimagine a list:00:25
timeless1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 5.00:25
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sparrapp manager needs an "im a big boy now" mode, where it will at least TELL me what the apt error is when it dies00:26
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timelesssparr: doesn't the log let you see that?00:26
sp3000sparr, log00:26
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sparraha00:27
timelessso, has someone installed my apt-listchanges thing yet?00:27
* timeless wants to know if it works00:27
sparri wasted a lot of time figuring out what was wrong when i typo'd a repository/component00:27
sparrlink to listchanges again?00:27
sparrill install it now00:27
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timelesshttp://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/apt-listchanges_2.74_maemo-1.deb00:27
sparrive got python2.5 thanks to something that needed pygame i think00:27
timelessyou know, there's a log of this channel00:27
sparroooh, n800?00:27
_Monkeyn800 is much better than a desk phone :-)00:27
timelessoh00:27
timelesserr, you're 770, right?00:27
timelesswell, try it anyway00:27
timelesswould you rather i rename it maemo?00:28
sparrhaha00:28
sparrdepends on python00:28
sparri have python2.500:28
timelessis python not compatible w/ python2.5?00:28
timelessi can rewrite lines in the control file...00:28
sparrpython2.5 should Provides python00:29
sparrbug in the python2.5 package, methinks00:29
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sparrreal problems though...  we dont have ucf00:29
sparri had to shoehorn ucf in the first time i tried localepurge00:30
timelesswhat's the package name00:30
sparrucf00:30
sparr:)00:30
timelesspython-2.5, python-2-5, python25, python2.500:30
sp3000python2.500:30
_Monkeypython2.5 is at pymaemo.garage.maemo.org!00:30
timelesshow do you spell python*2*5*support?00:31
timelessor should i just drop that? :)00:31
sparrpython2.5-support if it exists, but it doesnt seem to exist00:31
sparrok00:31
sparrim going to cheat00:31
sparrim building an equivs package to Provides coreutils and debianutils00:31
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timelesshow about python-apt?00:31
sparrand sending nasty vibes to whoever built busybox without that line00:32
sparrthere is no python*-apt :(00:32
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timelessthis isn't going to work very well w/o it :)00:32
sparrprobably not00:32
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timelesswould you rather i just provide a tarball containing /usr and /etc? :)00:32
timelessor i could make everything Recommends instead of Depends :)00:33
sparrdoes n800 have python-apt?00:33
sparrwell, the coreutils/debianutils thing is the fault of the busybox package00:33
timeless1.2007 doesn't have python afaik00:33
sparrdont "fix" YOUR package to fix theirs00:33
timelesssorry, dealing w/ other people and packages is either easy or hard00:33
timelessin the skype case it was easy00:34
timelessin the busybox case, i'm pretty sure it's hard, otherwise it'd have been done, no?00:34
sparrpython-apt requires python-central00:34
sparrwhich we also dont have00:34
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timelesssp3000: remember i mentioned that depend? :)00:35
sparrhard my ass.  its one line in the package control file.  busybox currently Conflicts debianutils and coreutils.  its technically incorrect for it to Provides them, because it might not depending on compile options, but it would fix a lot of package installs that just want coreutils for something silly like "rm"  :)00:35
timelessyeah00:35
timelessi think busybox hit politics problems00:35
timelesssince it couldn't make up its mind about what it acually did or when00:36
sparrso im going to equivs up a fake package to provide those  :)00:36
sparrwhen i get back.  afk for a few hours.00:36
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sparrsorry i couldnt help with listchanges00:36
timelessthis btw, is part of why i don't like python00:36
timelesspeople think it's cool00:36
timelessbut it's not :)00:36
timelessits dependency hell makes perl look good00:36
timelessat least w/ perl, i can cpan install what i need locally :)00:37
timelesslocally = no root required00:37
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timelesshttp://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/apt-listchanges_2.74_maemo-2.deb00:44
timelesssee if you can install that :)00:44
pupniki somehow missed what this 'listchanges' does.  what is it timeless ?00:44
timelessin theory, although we really don't know00:45
timelessif you manage to get it installed and working (requires python-*)00:45
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timelessthen when you use an apt interface (i.e. application manager) and try to install / upgrade a package00:45
timelessit should dump to log (?) the changelog between the previous version (if any) and the version you're installing00:46
timelesswe have no idea if this will actually work00:46
pupnikcool stuff00:48
* pupnik naps00:48
timelessof course, there's a lot of hand waving involved. like "can you actually get python to work?" and "will it manage to log somewhere useful"00:48
sparrtimeless: parting shot...  CPAN would be more impressive if it was filesystem-case-sensitivity-aware...  was very fun when CPAN overwrote /usr/bin/head with /usr/bin/Head on our OS X server at work00:48
timelessheh00:49
timelessthat's what you're supposed to use HFSX or UFS or ZFS :)00:49
timelessor be smart and don't install anything into / :)00:49
timelessi did say something about doing local installs :)00:49
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timelessand yes, i do have a mac at home00:49
disqplanning to get a macbook soon00:50
timelessbut yeah, you do have some sympathy00:50
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disqi wonder why canola won't like some of my album tags and list them in the unknown section00:54
k-s[WORK]disq: what id3tag shows?00:54
disqk-s[WORK]: please rephrase. is there a binary named id3tag?00:55
k-s[WORK]disq: yep, there are some tools that print the contents of id3 tag00:55
k-s[WORK]one of them is id3, other is id3tag, or id3info...00:55
disqdo you have armel binaries for those?00:55
k-s[WORK]disq: can't you copy to your linux desktop00:56
k-s[WORK]?00:56
disqi know the files have id3 tags (both idv1 and idv2)00:56
disqi don't have a linux desktop but i'll try installing id3 to my linux server :P00:56
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k-s[WORK]disq: :-)00:58
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unique311pupnik, cfgpeop file not found01:05
unique311pupnik, cfgpeopssoft file not found01:05
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unique311ok01:21
unique311zelda runs01:21
unique311slow as hell01:21
unique311how do i bring up the fps?01:21
timelessjust roudn it to 1fps and call it a day? :)01:22
trevarthanugh. I just cheese balled the Kagu thread. :)01:22
* trevarthan rips off his Public Relations hat and stomps on it.01:22
trevarthanwell, I'm goin' home. See ya later peeps01:22
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unique311guessing its 0.501:23
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unique311anyone in here using the tablet with no scratch protect01:52
unique311??01:52
unique311??01:52
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disqscratch protect(ion)? like?01:57
disqi don't have any protection on my n80001:57
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unique311hmmm02:04
unique311disq, the screen protective thingie02:04
unique311you don't use none02:04
unique311was wondering if i needed it.  been using my pocket pc forever without one, and no scratches on it.02:05
disqyeah02:05
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unique311I'm using it screen protector on my n80002:06
unique311its not the original that came with the n80002:06
unique311the one i'm using has a rubber feel02:07
unique311using the stylus with it sucks02:07
unique311The original screen protector was much better with the stylus, but after a couple of months show had scratches on it.02:08
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CHaiNSmaemo site down for anybody else?02:59
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rhysim on dialup. couldnt tell you for a few minutes03:09
rhysn800 gets wiMax next year through sprint btw03:09
CHaiNSits ok now03:13
CHaiNShave you tried this running windowmanager image?03:13
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unique311a2dp is not working04:38
unique311followed instructions04:38
unique311still not working04:39
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unique311motorola h500 doesn't not play well with a2dp05:42
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MaemoUShow can i install themes for maemo in scratchbox05:46
MaemoUS?05:46
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MaemoUSjoin #text05:51
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Toma-im trying to use 770-encode and im getting some nasty audio... http://members.iinet.net.au/~haste/fam606.avi06:36
k8^^06:37
k8(hi)06:37
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trevarthanAnyone know how to turn the screen off programmatically in maemo?06:55
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sparrdont know, Jesse07:11
timelessoh right07:12
timelessyou did ask that question07:12
timelesshave you looked at how the screen saver works?07:12
timelesslooks like you probably want to speak to dsme07:13
timelessdo you have libinactivity-blank?07:14
timelessglory:07:15
timeless/ $ find /usr/lib | grep inactivity07:15
timelessSegmentation fault07:15
sparrfun07:16
sparrfind or grep?07:16
trevarthanI don't get a segfault here, but no matches either07:19
timelessno core dumps folder07:19
timelessso i can't say07:19
trevarthanalright, I'm goin' to sleep. night folks.07:20
timelesshrm, it's definitely part of dsme07:22
timelessah07:22
timelesswell, if you're root07:22
timelessioctl(fb, FBIOBLANK, VESA_POWERDOWN)07:23
timelessok, got it07:24
* timeless pokes trevarthan07:24
trevarthanyeah, still awake07:24
timelessi don't suppose you have a dsme/protocol.h07:24
timelessmce seems to use it07:25
trevarthannot in /usr/lib07:25
timelessit'd be in an include dir silly :)07:25
trevarthannor /usr/include07:25
trevarthanyeah yeah07:25
trevarthanI'm sleepy07:25
timeless systemui_powerkey_menu_dbus_cb07:25
timelessok, you want to abuse dbus :)07:26
trevarthanyeah, let's do that.07:26
timelessok, the enum value is  POWER_KEY_MENU_RESPONSE_TKLOCK =1,07:26
timeless"powerkey_callback"07:27
timelessis the dbus callback07:27
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timeless"com.nokia.mce.request"07:27
timelessis the dbus interface07:28
timelessit expects afaiu a single int32 arg (value 1 from above)07:28
trevarthank. lemme code some stuff up.07:28
timelessnote: no guarantee you can unblank :)07:29
timelessoh, and be careful07:29
timelessthis is the same interface that the user gets for the power key07:29
timelessso you could accidental reboot the device07:29
timelessor power it off or ...07:29
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trevarthanmmmm... nice07:30
timelessoh, good, just in time07:30
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trevarthanyou guys putting your API monkeys on that?07:30
* timeless chuckles07:30
timeless"no"07:30
timelessplease consider this an undocumented backchannel07:31
timelessbut now i have to go07:31
timelessi'll be back in ~90mins i suppose07:31
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trevarthank. hopefully I'll be snoring by then. thanks.07:31
timelessluria: someday someone should explain how you guys managed to make that vkb file07:31
timelessafaict there's no public docs for the xml input file07:32
Luriasigh. must everything go at once?07:32
timelesstrevarthan: btw, that's of course not guaranteed not to change07:32
timelessat least, i can't guarantee it07:32
Luriasorry, pissed cause my home router seems to have died in the middle of an x session07:32
trevarthantimeless: yeah, that's ok. Kagu will probably be obsolete in a few months anyway. :)07:33
Luriaoh, and i didnt make the vkb, had nothing to do with it... but it saved me from figuring out.. for better or worse07:33
Luriabut i think there is a problem with the instructions on that page07:33
Luriatimeless, did you "recompile" (is that the appropriate word?) the fonts?07:34
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Luriawow... its like i hit the mute button on the channel... or am mad lagged07:39
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trevarthanLuria: timeless said he was going away.07:41
Luriaah07:41
Luriashoot07:41
trevarthanThat crap he just told me doesn't make any sense. :)07:41
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Luriamy nx connection died while i was about to edit the scripts to merge the nokia sys fonts with the oss hebrew fonts07:41
trevarthandbus is like throwing darts blindfolded07:41
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Luriaand now my home router seems dead...07:42
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Luriaso no vpn, no debian machines, no apache server for safe browsing.... no massive mp3 collection...07:43
Luriasigh.07:43
Luriai think i may have to go home.07:43
trevarthanmmm... that sucks. I've been there07:44
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Luriathis never happens... the wrt never goes... sometimes its the windows machine with the openvpn endpoint or the apache server on it... but i was sshing direct to my headless debian box... and now nothing works. damn, i wasnt even planning on going home, either.07:46
Luriai wish i had a remote hard reboot07:46
Luriathat didnt depend on the internet, at least...07:46
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trevarthanit would need to be TTY based, then.07:52
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trevarthanasterisk + iaxmodem -> serial TTY maybe07:52
trevarthanor maybe just an asterisk password protected IVR with a reboot machines option07:53
trevarthanonly way in besides the internet, right? the phone line?07:53
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trevarthantimeless: when you get back. I wrote some code: http://www.pastebin.ca/65653507:57
trevarthantimeless: I know you hate python. But I hate C. :) Anyway, I send that, and get this from the dbus monitor: signal sender=:1.652 -> dest=(null destination) interface=com.nokia.mce.request; member=powerkey_callback int32 107:58
trevarthantimeless: and nothing happens. Any ideas?07:58
trevarthanbut seriously, I gotta get some sleep. laters peeps.07:59
Luriayeah, was thinking of setting my openbsd machine to be an asterisk box08:01
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Luriais there a openvpn package for the n800?08:24
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SomeoneE1sehow long does a full charge take on the n800 for a dead battery?08:25
sparrtechnically a "dead" lithium battery cant be charged...  :)08:27
unique311yes it can08:29
unique311if its dead you can always get some life back..08:29
unique311place it in the freezer for 24 hours..08:29
unique311take it out.08:29
unique311let it sit for about 2...08:29
unique311place it back into the freezer for 24 hours...08:30
pupnik_my battery never stops charging.  probably a bug in it2006se08:30
unique311repeat these steps like 5 times08:30
unique311should be good as new.08:30
pupnik_interesting08:31
unique311i thought it was bullshit08:31
unique311tried it, got some time at leas 40+ minutes on my t41p08:32
unique311also remember when i was very young my uncles use to place regular dead AA batteries in the freezer08:32
unique311and they use to work.08:33
SomeoneE1seok08:33
SomeoneE1sefrom an empty battery08:33
Luriato increase conductivity? or ambient humidity?08:33
unique311not sure of the science behind it...08:34
SomeoneE1seI just got a replacement n800 for my borked one and want to know how long to let it charge before I play with it08:34
unique311play with it while its charging08:34
unique311lol08:34
Luriaamen08:35
unique311i didn't even charge my batteries when i got my n80008:35
unique311pop the batteries in it, and started messing around with it.08:35
Luriasorry for the long paste, but08:37
Luria1. It is a VERY bad idea to fully discharge Lithium-Ion batteries. Once Li-ion batteries are discharged below ~2.75v (per cell) an unreversible chemical reaction happens that degrades the overall capacity depending on how low the voltage gets and how long the battery stays in such a state. You should note that your discharge->freezer->charge->repeat method will only help NIMH or NICD batteries. Also, the freezer step does nothing, just w08:37
Luriaastes time. One more thing, also shouldn't discharge the pack down to 0v. If you have a single weak cell in a pack, discharging to 0v could reverse the voltage in the weak cell from the other cells discharging though it. A reverse charge will make the cell weaker... How to properly cycle a NIMH or NICD battery pack: 1. Discharge the pack to 0.6v per cell (See below for info) at C/10 (see below for info) for the first cycle, C/4 for each08:37
Luriafollowing cycle. 2. Charge the pack at C/20 for 25 hours the first two or three cycles, after that use normal charger. 3. Rinse, repeat, wipe hands on pants. Per cell example: 14.4v pack, 14.4/1.2=12 cells, discharge to 7.2v C/*: C/* = total capacity in mAh divided by *. Example: C/4, 1000mAh pack = 250mAh (dis)charge current.08:37
Luriabe wary of the freezer08:37
Luriait used to be a rapid discharge method for reconditioning08:38
pupnik_do the tablets auto power down before the battery goes fully discharged?08:39
pupnik_(one would hope so)08:39
SomeoneE1seunique311 that's what I didi too08:39
Luriai believe so08:39
rwhitbypupnik_: mine has done so08:39
Luriamine always has08:40
SomeoneE1sebut the battry would say 4 hours of use left and then 30 mins later it would just shut off08:40
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SomeoneE1seanyone know how to fast forward mplayer08:44
SomeoneE1seor even pause it08:44
sparrarrows?08:56
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Luria"mplayer -input pause"  i think08:59
Luriahttp://web.njit.edu/all_topics/Prog_Lang_Docs/html/mplayer/08:59
timelessluria: nope, i'm reviewing logs from about 9months ago and writing complaints based on them09:06
timelesstrevarthan: sorry, nope. all i can do is read code which is essentially greek, you can try sp3000 he can use the pointers i've spilled and find someone who speaks dbus (or anyone you can find who speaks dbus and has an osso affiliation).09:06
timelessfwiw, if it's delivered and mce doesn't like it, it'd complain using its logging callback. you might need to poke mce.ini/DeviceMenu/BlankImmediately/TRUE09:06
* timeless grumbles09:08
timelesswho wants to be my bugs.maemo angel this morning?09:09
timeless(you can have a cloak and dagger if the halo is too uncomfortable)09:09
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* timeless grumbles09:14
timelesssw: [bad_bug]09:14
timelesssw: [useless_bug]09:14
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timelesssw: [should_have_used_guided]09:17
Luriatimeless, still here?09:28
timelesskinda09:28
timelessi'm busy ranting at people because no one would be my angel09:28
Luriaso you didnt recompile the fonts?09:28
timeless(angel ~ messenger)09:28
Luriajust a question, cause i was about to but my nx session died09:28
timelessi don't generally need to read hebrew on my tablet,09:28
timelessso, no i haven't09:28
Luriato read is easy09:29
timelessthe last time i'd have wanted it would have been to get the prayer for hanging my mezuzah09:29
Luriadrop ms arial unicode  in .fonts and redo the cache09:29
timelessi think i ended up using my laptop09:29
timeless(yes, that's stupid, but hey)09:29
Luriaand its ... likboa mezuzah09:29
timelessyeah yeah, i did it09:30
Luria:-)09:30
timelessi've actually done it twice now i suppose09:30
Luriathe only reason to do the font recompile is because vkb needs font support in system fonts09:30
timelessthe first time was cooler, since i got a prayer card from a synagogue's dedication and used it at my apt09:30
Luriaotherwise the apps work with ms airal unicode ttf09:31
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Luriathats pretty neat09:31
timelessinteresting09:31
timelessis that arguably a bug in vkb?09:31
Luriai dont think so09:31
timelesswhy not?09:32
Luriathe vkb relies on one of the system fonts, which isnt a bad choice09:32
Luriait should be fixed to something and not treated like an app09:32
Luriato my mind its "lower"09:33
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Luriathe only bad design is that the system fonts dont have 30k+ glyphs :-)09:33
Luriaif you try the maemo.org hack tho, i think the #/usr/sbin/fontmerge in the scripts has to be changed09:34
Luriai think it has to be called with a -c to allow for scripting09:35
Luriabut my session died just as i started vim09:35
Luriaerrr ..../fontforge09:35
Luriaknow what i mean?09:36
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Luriaactually, id like to shoot the guy who put the pipe on the second page of symbols somewhere in the middle of the keymap09:39
Luriatakes me two damn minutes to find it each time09:39
Luriatimeless, btw, http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_him_bora.html09:41
straind`have you tried the UK keyboard?09:41
Luriano, does it help?09:41
straind`Yeah.  Much better.09:41
Luriathat and the minus key requiring shift09:42
straind`Fixes that too.09:42
Luriasomeone should have sent the guy a memo that maemo runs on linux09:42
Luriaerrr... no pun intended...09:42
timelessmaemo runs on linux?09:42
straind`Yeah.  Pipe, minus, /bin/play :)09:42
timelessluria: i don't get it09:43
Luriahttp://www.arava.co.il/matan/770/heb/fontmerge09:43
Luriais the script that merges the fonts09:43
timelessoh wow, they actually documented the xml file?09:43
Luriayeah thought you knew09:43
Luriathey did the whole input thing09:44
timelessi sent a complaint earlier that they haven't open sourced the xml files we have09:44
timelessi don't think i've proof'd the 3-x files09:44
straind`Does the phone keypad vs numberpad annoy anyone else?09:44
timelessi haven't travelled recently09:44
timelessand i think the next time i do, i'm going to be reading the mail specs09:44
timelesswhich sound like they're as stupid as everything else09:44
Luriaanyway that script merges the fonts on that site kept complaining about the arguments or the tokens supplied09:44
Luriathis on vanilla debian09:45
straind`Has anyone tried flite?09:45
Luriawhich makes sense cause running fontforge starts an x app09:45
straind`It seems to have trouble running as user, but it's ok as root.09:46
Luriai checked the docs for fontforge, and apparently, adding -c makes it cli/scripting09:46
Luriai was about to check my theory, but my connection home died09:46
Luriastraind`, fontforge for you goes cli without the -c argument?09:48
* k8 giorno09:48
straind`Luria: I was talking about flite, not fontforge.09:48
Luriaah09:49
Luriasorry09:49
straind`I haven't heard of fontforge. :)09:49
Luriaive installed it, but i havent tinkered09:49
Luriaflite, not fontforge :-)09:49
timelesscontext switches can be dangerous :)09:49
straind`I'm trying to get kismet to talk to me. :)09:50
Lurialike women guns and booze09:50
Luriakismet works?09:50
straind`Yeah.  For me at least.  I have to reboot after, to get wireless access working.09:50
Luriaouch09:51
Lurianow that i mention it, finnish guns are nice.09:51
straind`I don't mind too much because I don't run kismet too often.09:51
straind`This is pretty neat.  I can run flite over SSH and have it start talking wherever it is. :)09:52
* timeless has no interest in finnish guys, or finns, or guys ... :)09:52
* timeless sighs09:53
* timeless needs to write another how not to design a bugzilla09:53
unique311hmmm09:54
Luriastraind`, wait, ssh runs on your desktop and outputs to your n800?09:54
Luriaim not getting something09:54
straind`Yeah.  I can make my n770 talk by using SSH from my desktop.09:54
Luriaoh i see09:55
Luriayou could output the channel text to your 77009:55
straind`SSH *to* the n770 :)09:55
Luriathen we all can annoy you to no end09:55
straind`Luria: Yeah.  If I only knew how to do it, I could do it. :)09:56
straind`I suppose, if I had to I would glue it together with HTTP.  mIRC would make an HTTP request for every channel message and the n770 would take the input and pass it to flite.09:58
straind`Anyone have a (cli) way to make the 770 play a sound file?09:59
Luriahttp://www.oreilly.com/pub/h/196310:00
Luria:-)10:00
Luriaumm mplayer?10:00
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straind`umm nope? :)10:07
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straind`Ok.  After several seconds delay (and pages of GLIB WARNING), it played an mp3.10:10
straind`I don't know why it won't play a wav file, but I need to go to bed an hour ago.10:14
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guardianmorning10:39
_Monkeyaloha10:39
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AD-N770good morning10:40
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pupnik_gp2x successor might have the tablet's 800x480 screen11:14
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pupnik_would be neat if they just could cut a deal with nokia for a version of the N900 with gamepad controls11:16
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dazgardhi here :)11:16
pupnik_moo11:17
dazgardare there any plan to get pulseaudio on the n800 ?11:17
pupnik_wazzat11:17
dazgardpulseaudio is a sound server11:17
dazgardhttp://pulseaudio.org/11:17
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dazgardimagine, you have your headphone, listening to your favorite tunes, outdoor, and once you connect to your home network (wifi,...), the sound is automaticaly routed to your desktop audio system ?11:19
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dazgardhttp://www.gnome.org/mobile/11:19
dazgardhave a look at the "Technologies in Incubation" section :)11:19
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Nermalwoo11:22
Nermalmorning11:22
_Monkeyaloha11:22
dazgardhi11:22
* Nermal drinks coffee and eats his bacon sandwich11:22
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pupnik_dazgard: is there a curses or gtk2 client11:23
dazgardthere are gtk2 utilities11:23
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dazgardfor the volume, sound server choice,11:24
dazgardpulseaudio is really  a good piece of software11:25
dazgardit does support alsa/arts/oss/esound... apromatively any linux sound piece11:26
pupnik_you won't see official support, but a third party could build a client11:27
dazgardi think in a near future, this software will be the default GNU/linux audio interface ;)11:28
pupnik_what about jack?11:29
dazgardim using on all my linux boxes11:29
dazgardit does support jack too :)11:29
pupnik_what does it replace?11:30
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dazgardand what's really cool, it does not add extra latency11:30
dazgardit does not replace anything, the approche was to embrace :)11:31
dazgardbut i think, it should replace all of them :)11:31
dazgardthe latency provided is really suited for professionnal audio work11:32
pupnik_you face an uphill battle convincing people why they should want it11:32
dazgardim using ardour, for recordoing11:32
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pupnik_ardour doesn't need pulse11:32
dazgardyes, but ardour do need jack :)11:33
pupnik_i can understand jack11:33
dazgardand it is not suited to use jack as a default sound "server"11:34
dazgardfor programmers, one simple api (no more alsa/oss/portaudio/.....)11:34
dazgardfor users, it's simply wonderful11:34
pupnik_geez i just built portaudio for the nokias11:35
dazgardimagine, you're in your room, listening to a song, and you want your friend/brother/sister in the other room to listing too11:36
pupnik_so i run icecast11:36
dazgardlol11:36
dazgardjust try pulse, and you will understand what i mean ;)11:37
pupnik_icecast can stream from an internal player, or play back whatever my soundcard hears11:37
pupnik_so i can stream any currently playing source (radio, mp3s, cds)11:37
pupnik_(icecast+darkice)11:38
dazgardyes, i understand, but the include an other piece of software11:38
pupnik_i am being obtuse, but it has a purpose11:39
dazgardman, but the way do you know of any binary for ecasound for the n800 please ?11:40
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dazgardim recording audio with ardour (im writing reggae songs), and i would like to record my ideas as fast as i can (on the road to work,....) and ecasound on the n800 would be really cool11:42
pupnik_ecasound: Unmet build dependencies: libsndfile1-dev (>= 1.0.17-2) python-dev ladspa-sdk (>= 1.0.LGPL-3) libreadline5-dev libjack0.100.0-dev libsamplerate0-dev hevea texlive-base-bin texlive-base texlive-latex-extra yodl ruby1.8 ruby python-docutils python-support (>= 0.4.0)11:44
Luriaooh that made me dizzy11:46
timelesspython and ruby?11:47
timelesswhat is that. make_World11:47
pupnik_buildpackage11:47
pupnik_ardour looks better11:49
dazgardim going to get the maemo sdk and try to build it11:49
pupnik_Unmet build dependencies: patchutils (>= 0.2.25) libsndfile1-dev libsamplerate0-dev liblrdf0-dev (>= 0.3.1-4) ladspa-sdk (>= 1.1-2) libjack-dev libgtkmm-2.4-dev libgnomecanvasmm-2.6-dev libgnomecanvas2-dev libglademm-2.4-dev libboost-dev libsoundtouch1-dev liblo0-dev libcairomm-1.0-dev (>= 1.2.4)11:49
dazgardardour on the n800 ?11:49
dazgardlol11:49
dazgardwhy not :D11:49
pupnik_jsut from a dependencies standpoint11:49
pupnik_you'll have problems with read/write speed to mmc on the 770.  dunno about n80011:50
unique311so who else use their device besides disq without scratch protector thingie11:52
unique311??11:52
unique311??11:52
Lurianot i11:52
pupnik_that is unknowable11:53
pupnik_Does the N800 scratch more eaily than the 770?11:53
Luriacrap. not the unknowable!11:54
Luria:-)11:54
dazgardunique311: 6months im using the default protctor since :)11:54
Luriareally? i found the stylus to be cutting the default plastic on the n800 after three weeks11:55
pupnik_btw there are high-quality USB ADCs for professional recording11:55
Luriaspeaking of hostmode with imaginary objects...11:57
unique311i got rid of the default protector 3 weeks into it11:57
unique311the ones i'm using now are like rubber11:57
unique311not very fond of them..11:57
Luriais there any hope for something like this... http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/June2006/3243.htm ...to work?11:57
unique311when i try to draw with it..not too fun.11:57
dazgardpupnik_: im using the ua-20, but this is really not for professional recording12:01
pupnik_btw dazgard before you think about 'hard disc' recording on a tablet, check your write speed12:01
pupnik_date ; dd bs=1M count=100 if=/dev/random of=/media/mmc1/bigfile.wav ; date12:02
dazgardok, gonna test this :)12:02
pupnik_16-bit 44.1khz stereo requires 176kB/s12:02
dazgardi do not really need 16-bit 44.1khz stereo :)12:03
dazgardit's just not to forget the good ideas :)12:03
pupnik_you can use the built-in microphone for ideas12:03
dazgardyes, that's what im doing for the moment12:04
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dazgardusing maemo recorder, but maemo recorder is not good for those kind of things, and it is quiete buggy too12:05
pupnik_btw that /dev/random input doesn't work with dd and bs=1m for some reason (on 770)12:11
pupnik_strange, writing 10MB took under a second and writing 100 is running over a minute12:12
dazgardbuffereing ?12:12
pupnik_using if=/dev/zero ... straange12:13
pupnik_writing 20MB yielded 606kB/s12:14
pupnik_so you might be able to implement a 4-track recorder on the 770 with default kernel12:15
dazgard:)12:16
dazgardim running the 100M timing test on my n80012:17
dazgardthe n800 hardware is wonderful12:18
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dazgardthe only problem for me withit is the camera, when using it with the "camera software" from nokia, man, this is sooooo slooooooow :(12:18
dazgardi also hope to have a webkit based browser, cause the mozilla based one is too slow too12:21
pupnik_'simple multitrack recorder' builds fine12:21
pupnik_mix 2 1 .3 .3 drums .4 .3 bass 1.3 .9 synth | srp > vocal12:21
pupnik_Vocal track is recorded while listening to mix of drums, bass, and synth12:21
dazgardthat's what im looking for man !!!12:21
pupnik_http://pupnik.de/SMR_maemo_001.tgz12:23
pupnik_no idea whether srp works with the mic input12:24
dazgarddo you have any link please ?12:24
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pupnik_http://www.w140.com/audio/12:25
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sbaturzioAloha!12:25
_MonkeyGuten Tag, sbaturzio!12:25
dazgardthanks man12:26
dazgardsbaturzio: Aloha!12:26
_MonkeyGuten Tag, dazgard!12:26
dazgard_Monkey: hi12:26
_Monkeyniihau, dazgard12:26
dazgard?12:26
pupnik__Monkey: botsnack12:27
_Monkey:)12:27
unique311lol12:27
unique311love these monkey momments12:28
pupnik__Monkey: MITM is a 'Monkey in the middle' attack to compromise secure communications: http://monkey.org/~dugsong/dsniff/faq.html12:30
_MonkeyOK, pupnik_.12:30
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pupnik_that worked well :)12:30
pupnik_dsniff?12:31
pupnik__Monkey, dsniff is a collection of tools for network auditing and penetration testing.  http://maemo.org/downloads/product/dsniff/  also ask me about MITM12:32
_MonkeyOK, pupnik_.12:32
pupnik_pcsx?12:33
pupnik__Monkey, pcsx is an open-source Playstation 1 emulator.  An unoptimized build is available at http://pupnik.de/pcsx.html   Its purpose is to frustrate users and annoy zodttd into porting psx4all to maemo.12:34
_MonkeyOK, pupnik_.12:34
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pupnikCan anybody help me port drpocketsnes to maemo?12:38
pupnikWIP here... http://pupnik.de/DrPocketSnes_Nokia_The_Horror.tgz12:38
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unique311pupnik, what kind of errors are you getting?12:48
pupnikthe various modules need to be made to work with one another12:49
pupnikiow this isn't a recompile with a few tweaks, but getting into the guts of it12:50
pupnikI'm going to wait for v7 to come out, start over, and document the work12:50
pupnikso the snes folks can tell me what i'm doing wroang12:51
timeless_monkey seen kender12:51
_Monkeykender was last seen on #maemo 28 days, 19 hours, 25 minutes and 39 seconds ago, saying: hi [Mon Jul 16 15:24:34 2007]12:51
pupnik_monkey seen zodttd12:52
_Monkeyzodttd was last seen on #maemo 2 days, 6 hours, 56 minutes and 59 seconds ago, saying: wb pupnik_ [Sun Aug 12 03:53:56 2007]12:52
pupnikdamn, missed him.  At least he's alive :)12:53
kulve_Monkey seen _Monkey12:54
_MonkeyI haven't seen '_Monkey', kulve12:54
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dazgardhow can i add the key for "http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com" to my repositories please ?12:57
dazgardcan't find it nowhere12:58
dazgard:s12:58
unique311why are all the nitendo ds emulators for windows12:58
pupnikhttp://desmume.org/12:59
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unique311you are fast pupnik13:00
unique311someone on itt wants a port..13:01
unique311going to see how hard it is to make it happen..and then hit them with bad news13:01
unique311strange first time i've gotten a pkg-config not avail.13:03
pupnikac_tool_prefix isn't getting set right13:04
pupnik:113:05
timeless_monkey lle?13:05
_Monkeytimeless: no idea13:05
pupnikunique311: configure line 698: ac_tool_prefix="/scratchbox/tools/bin/"13:06
pupnikoops hmm13:07
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unique311i have another issue13:07
unique311usually whe configure fails..13:08
pupnikchecking for /scratchbox/tools/bin/pkg-config... no13:10
pupnikwtf13:10
dazgardstupid question, but how can i have a /dev/dsp on the n800 plz ?13:10
dazgardseems there's no oss support13:10
dazgarddoes not the installed alsa have backward compatibility ?13:10
pupnikdazgard: i wish i knew. there's an aoss wrapper you can build but it doesn't do it13:10
pupnikdazgard: if you can figure that out, snes9x will have sound13:10
pupnikhttp://pupnik.de/alsa-oss_1.0.8-1_armel.deb13:11
dazgardcool13:11
dazgard:)13:11
timelesswe ship alsa13:11
unique311pupnik still MIA13:11
timelessat least in 4.2007 there's alsa-lib-1.0.1013:11
* pupnik appoints dazgard as the new sound-figurer-outer13:13
dazgard:)13:13
timelesssardine-20070531/release/alsa-lib-1.0.10/13:14
timelessso it was also in sardine in may13:14
pupnik/mnt/initfs/sys/bus/platform/drivers/omap_alsa_mcbsp13:15
pupnikdazgard: one question would be 'is it possible to get an alsa oss wrapper running without a kernel module?'13:16
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pupnikor is there a simpler way to create a /dev/dsp device?13:17
timelesseveryone should use gstreamer :)13:18
* timeless isn't sure what gstreamer is, but it starts w/ a g, it must be good13:18
timelessg=good, right? :)13:18
pupnikyeah a proper port uses hildon and gstreamer.  but a lot of things aren't going to get proper ports due to time constraints13:19
unique311pupnk wrong version..13:21
pupnikit's really two classes of application.  one is a real tablet-ized app.  another is a desktop linux app that's just a quick compile13:21
unique311seems sourceforge is handing out 0.7.213:21
pupnikunique311: what do you mean?13:21
unique311you need to grab 0.7.313:21
pupnikoh ok13:21
pupnikurl?13:22
unique311on 2 different notebooks13:22
pupnikthey say 0.7.3 is released but their downloads page only has 0.7.213:22
unique311group_id=16457913:23
unique311on sourceforge13:23
pupnikhttp://sourceforge.net/group_id=16457913:23
pupniknope13:23
unique311http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=16457913:24
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pupnikty13:25
timelessoh, i'm not actually a fan of gstreamer or anything13:25
timelesspeople just mention it :)13:25
unique311cannot find lGL not good..so thats out of the question13:25
unique311pupnik..the readme has good info..13:27
unique311how to build different versions.13:27
unique311i just notice it13:27
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pupnikthe GL stuff needs to be pulled out13:30
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unique311can it be done without screwing up the rest of the source on compile13:32
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pupnikunique311: got it built - want the changes?13:37
unique311danm..13:37
unique311you are quick13:37
unique311yeah13:37
unique311send em13:37
pupnikit's not much13:38
unique311did you just go into the directory of the version you want to build13:38
unique311thats the route i was going to take13:38
pupniki'm in desmume-0.7.313:38
pupnikdid your configure run though ok?13:38
unique311i did13:39
unique311but make complianed of the gl stuff13:39
pupnikone second13:40
unique311but then i notice the different directories13:40
unique311for the specific type you want to build..13:40
unique311i was going to try the gtk version.13:40
unique311i got an error could not find gtk.h13:40
unique311dejavu13:40
pupnikhttp://pastebin.ca/65673113:41
pupnikthat's kinda stupid actually13:43
pupnikdeleting -DHAVE_GL_GL_H=1 -DHAVE_GL_GLU_H=1  from makefile would be better13:43
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N800wtf13:45
N800internet don't want to work13:45
N800well its working13:45
N800i'm on irc13:45
N800but webbrowsers are not working13:45
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N800oh13:46
N800its ie13:46
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N800pupnik, its pastebin man..13:47
N800its not going thru13:47
pupnikforget the pastebin - it was stoopid - just delete -DHAVE_GL_GL_H=1 -DHAVE_GL_GLU_H=1 from the makefile and you should be good to make13:47
N800k13:47
pupniklooks like it lays out the dual screen vertically, which isn't good for the tablet13:49
N800i don't have those entries in my makefile..13:50
N800so it runs on the 770?13:51
N800I'll wait for you to upload the your modified source.13:51
pupnik?13:51
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pupnikyeah it runs - looking for a public domain ds rom13:51
pupnikthen it will need a different layout13:52
N800should be easy to do.13:52
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N800thiers an irc channel on freenode for desmume13:52
N800#desmume13:52
pupnikok open configure, line 5577 and remove -lGL and -lGLU13:54
pupnikrerun configure13:54
pupnikthen you should have a amkefile with the HAVE_GL defines13:54
pupnikremove the HAVE_GL defines in the makefile and dsmemu will build without gl13:55
N800not sure we have the same file man..13:56
N800lol13:56
N800configure line 5577 does not contain that line13:57
pupnikwell the code is fine.  just need to pull out the GL -DEFINES and the -lGL and -lGLU13:58
N800k, so can't i just get your modified source code, when you get a chance to upload it.13:59
pupnikthe source is unmodified :P13:59
N800i know why i don't have the same entries as you13:59
N800i ran ./autogen.sh13:59
N800yep that was it14:01
pupnikok i was wrong - i do have to comment out #define INCLUDE_OPENGL_2D in src/cli/main.c14:02
N800i removed line 557714:03
N800and it compile straight thru14:03
N800without having to modify makefile14:03
pupnikok i think configure might have found some remnant of mesaGL i had installed14:04
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N800k so it compile and installed for me..14:05
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N800now what get a dsrom and hope for the best14:05
N800there's a couple of roms on the dsemu site14:05
N800http://www.double.co.nz/nintendo_ds/dsemu.html14:06
N800http://ndshb.com14:07
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N800feck seg fault14:12
pupnikjust crashes here with YASFcave.nds14:12
N800got a segfault using the desmume-cli14:12
N800gtk just gave me a fatal signal14:12
N800you try running with different flags14:13
pupniki just get a 'Killed' message14:13
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N800seg faults here14:14
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pupnikwell go to main.c - the SDL video mode is set to 32 and it needs to be 1614:18
pupnikbut that might break other things14:18
pupnikcli/main.c14:18
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pupnikwhoah it works in sb14:19
N800nice14:20
N800lol14:20
pupnikhttp://pastebin.ca/65675314:21
* pupnik <3s SDL14:21
N800nothing here still14:24
* pupnik is confuzzled14:26
pupnikon the scratchbox i get Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)  and on 770 it starts14:27
N800ok14:28
pupnikwith desmume (not cli)14:28
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pupniknice gtk UI though - no problems with that14:31
N800what about the double screen14:31
N800sucks/?14:31
pupnikactually it's only 384 high14:35
pupnikplaying 'birds' on the pc now - about 12 fps14:35
pupniknp: Ella Fitzgerald and Chick Webb - When I get Low I get High14:36
konttoriwow: pretty harsh critic on the nokia E90: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/02/nokia_new_coke/14:42
N800pupnik, desmume-cli on n800 1.3 fps14:47
N800lol14:47
N800running a tetris homebrew..14:47
pupnikwhat did you do to get it running?14:47
N800going to try the frameskips on the gtk version14:48
N800run desmume-cli tetris.nds14:48
N800the screen is small14:48
N800so small14:48
N800lol14:48
N8001.33 now14:48
floriankonttori: understandable to some extend, but some parts (like the e61 vs. Q9 comparison) are bullshit.14:49
N8003 fps in the gtk version14:49
konttoriWell, I haven't really looked at Q9, so can't comment on that.14:50
floriankonttori: imho the E90 is a great product, but it makes some limitations of S60 pretty obvious...14:50
konttoriIndeed, and their critic on dropping the s80 platform was pretty good imho.14:51
N80010fps with the frameskip14:51
pupnikimpressive - it's emulating an ARM9 67mhz and arm7 33mhz CPU14:52
N80020 fps14:53
N800top it i think14:53
N800but the n800 is not responding too well now14:53
floriankonttori: yes... well, S60 is not designed to be that flexible obviously. S80 hat mich more benefits for more experienced users.14:53
N800must be sucking up resources14:54
florians/mich/much14:54
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pupniknice N800 - let the guys in #desmume know14:54
N800wow15:00
three-wow?15:00
N800desmume at a whopping 92 cpu usage15:00
N80038 on memory15:00
N800lol15:00
three-nice15:00
N800bad..15:00
N800n800 might blow up if im not careful15:01
pupnikemus should use all available cpu15:01
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pupnikN800 try a game that uses 3d15:05
N800hmmm15:05
pupnikget any other apps running?15:05
N800that would definitely blow my n800 up15:05
N800windDS15:05
N800a little program base game15:06
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N800it has p tic tac toe notes, calculator15:06
N800a couple of more things15:06
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pupnikwow hildon comes from the Psion folks according to theregister15:13
whaqhttp://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/08/14/japan.biker.reut/index.html?iref=mpstoryview15:13
robtaylor lol, the register in opinionated cluelessness shocker!15:14
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pupnikwell as far as i'm concerned windows (and windows mobile) is 'The Ultimate Evil'.15:22
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pupnik_oh rehi... T-Online shop in germany lists the Nokia 800 Internet Tablet - Mobiltelefon15:29
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straind`Has anyone had any success with connecting to a bluetooth device via serial?15:40
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pupnik_Openmoko online shop: Sold out!15:45
pupnik_:)15:45
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gla55_how many they had?15:48
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pupnik_dunno, but i'm rooting for them15:48
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pupnik_the neo is a good deal uglier than iphone though :/  the bezel on the side of the screen is too bulky15:58
pupnik_http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/491095441/15:58
pupnik_probably good for stability/protection tho15:58
pupnik_without the case: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/494571426/in/photostream/15:59
bipolarThe production version is going to have WiFi too...16:00
gla55_designwise yea i don't think much of the neo16:01
gla55_not hw-featwise either tho16:01
gla55_hsdpa spoiled16:01
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pupnik_of course with a tablet... just need UMTS for mobile data - and the benq-siemens EF81 is under 100 euro now16:09
Crofton|homekoen, for 2430sdp, I renamed u-boot bb file to u-boot-omap2430sdp_1.2.0.bb16:10
Crofton|homehow can I specify that u-boot  in machine file?16:10
N800pupnik16:10
_Monkeypupnik is here16:10
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Crofton|homearg16:11
N800neopop 60fps16:11
pupnik_what frameskip?16:11
N800screen is way too small. for usage16:11
N800fps16:11
pupnik_ohh16:11
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kulvelardman: some questions about the dsp stuff.. Do you have a minute?16:14
lardmankulve: yep, fire away16:15
N800good frameskip on it16:17
N800yeah this is a good one.16:17
kulvelardman: about block transfers16:17
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lardmankulve: yes16:18
kulvelardman: if the data is short * (16bit) on the ARM side and I transfer it to dsp side and handle it as char * (16bit), do I need to make any conversions?16:18
lardmankulve: no, but you may as well handle it as short on the DSP side as char==short on the DSP (would mean fewer changes to the code and make it more understandable)16:19
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kulveok. And the byte order is the same?16:19
lardmanfor shorts, yes...16:20
* lardman looks for the docs to check that out16:20
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lardmanI guessed for the G.711 and it came out right, so the ARM and DSP should be the same16:20
kulveI tried to find some docs telling that but failed to find anything useful..16:20
lardmanI have something, let me do some digging16:20
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kulvelardman: and I have e.g. char[256] and transfer it to DSP side, I have char[128] there, with 16bit chars, and I need to make some bit shifting to get char[256] where only the 8bits of each 16bit chars would be used?16:23
kulve+if16:23
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lardmanyes that's what you'd have to do. I don;t know whether making a larger array to pass of 8bits in 16bit variables would be slower than doing this on the DSP or vice versa16:24
lardmandid that make sense, pretty confusing now I read it16:25
kulveit did :)16:25
kulveI'm not needing that at least now, just want to know how things work..16:25
kulvei.e. I'm working with 16bits16:26
kulveother question. Is there some sort of memory allocation functions for dsp..?16:26
zafthe openmoko have bluetooth?16:27
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lardmankulve: Dunno, but I presume so, there's a c/c++ programming guide for the DSP. Take a look here: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/psheets/man_dsp.htm16:29
lardmanscroll down to the section starting "TMS320C55x DSPs"16:29
kulveI actually opened the c55 user guid. It included >700 pages ;)16:30
kulve+e16:30
lardmanRight, take a look at the DSPgateway spec pdf, search for the Endianism section16:31
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lardmanhttp://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/pub/3.3.1/DSP_Gateway331_spec_a.pdf16:31
lardmangot to pop out, ask away and I'll answer when I get back16:32
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JaffaMorning, all16:34
kulvelardman|afk: how about tctl command return variables? What should I return in TCTL_TINIT error?16:34
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* pupnik_ is away 16:46
lardman|afkkulve: look at p78 of the DSP gateway spec16:48
lardman|afkkulve: says which of the TCTL commands should or shouldn't return values16:48
lardman|afkkulve: I think init should return zero or an error code (which is defined)16:49
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lardman|afkI'm having second thoughts about malloc() etc,16:50
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kulvehmm.. Where do I find the defined error IDs..?16:51
kulvetokliBIOS.h16:52
lardman|afkkulve: p60, look at EXMAP if you need to define buffers at runtime (I think...)16:52
lardman|afkalso p9816:53
kulvewell, I think I'll manage without those..16:53
lardman|afkWhat are you writing then?16:53
kulveI'm trying to get speex running..16:53
lardman|afkcool16:53
kulvecurrently speex_encoder_init fails16:54
kulveand It doesn't do much16:54
lardman|afkwhat's the failure?16:54
kulveit returns null..16:54
lardman|afkcompile or runtime?16:54
kulveruntime16:54
kulveI haven't yet added any debug "prints" there16:54
lardman|afkIs that on the DSP-side or the ARM-side16:55
lardman|afk?16:55
kulvedsp side16:55
* lardman|afk should take a look at the Speex code rather than asking silly questions16:55
kulvethe c5x port of speex uses char array to replace malloc16:56
disqbtw we released Kagu Media Player 1.0.5 today, fixes some perm errors in 1.0.4 and some more enhancements from trunk16:56
lardman|afkwith a pre-existing maximum size?16:56
kulvehmm.. Actually the speex_alloc has fprints inside VERBOSE_ALLOC defines which I undeffed.. I need to change those to DBG()s to see if they fail..16:56
kulvestatic char spxHeap[SPEEX_PERSIST_STACK_SIZE];16:57
lardman|afkAre you block sending?16:57
kulveyes16:57
kulvebut that actually now fails already in init16:57
lardman|afkI have a feeling that word sending (for commands) with shared memory might be a better way to do it16:57
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lardman|afkthat's the way the Nokia dsp sinks appear to work16:58
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kulveI think I don't need to send any commands..16:58
lardman|afkwell, to get it to stop and start perhaps?16:58
lardman|afkor pause16:59
kulveit initializes on open and dies on close16:59
kulveno need for pause16:59
lardman|afkfair enough16:59
kulveI just feed the data to it and get it back encoded16:59
kulvebut I'll add the debugs and see if they tell me more17:01
lardman|afkI had some failures because I'd mixed up the task type flags17:01
lardman|afkthey resulted in the task not starting up17:01
kulvelardman|afk: btw. what sized data types there are? char = short = 16bit. Int? long double?17:01
kulvemine does start, I see that from the debugs17:02
lardman|afkthat's all in the c/c++ programmers guide iirc17:02
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lardman|afkp118 (5-2) of that guide (called spru281f.pdf)17:03
kulveI find only " TMS320C55x Optimizing C/C++ Compiler User's Guide"17:03
lardman|afkthat's the one17:04
lardman|afkusers of compilers are programmers in my view ;)17:04
kulve"optimizing compiler" sounds scary ;)17:04
lardman|afkp122 for the table17:04
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lardman|afkI see there's complete ASM for a JPEG decoder in spra615.pdf. For an earlier DSP, but looks interesting17:06
lardman|afkaway again17:07
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kulvelardman: thx17:11
lardmankulve: np17:11
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Shurik_morning17:39
_Monkeyaloha17:39
Shurik_anyone able to install and run Kagu on n800?17:40
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proctoShurik_: I was17:43
Shurik_for some reason it never launches for me17:43
Shurik_Loading Kagu and then nothing after several seconds. Strange17:44
proctoare you running the player or the scanner?17:44
proctoI've only run it like 3-5 times17:44
proctobut for some reason, I've run the scanner application first every time17:44
proctothe scanner would launch and close right away17:44
proctobut then the media player would run fine17:44
procto(it would ask me if I want to scan)17:44
Shurik_hmm17:45
Shurik_I tried either one17:45
Shurik_so not sure17:46
Shurik_I'm okay with mediaplayer, but just wanted to see what it does17:46
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lardmanShurik_: Launch it from xterm and see what it says?17:52
Shurik_ooh interesting. Let me try17:53
Shurik_I got to reinstall it though ^)17:53
Shurik_what is typical location for installed programs?17:53
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lardman /usr/bin17:55
Shurik_well now it runs all by itself17:55
Shurik_wicked17:55
Shurik_pretty17:55
lardmanMight be worth trying to start from the menu again and then looking at the contents of the .desktop file if it doesn't work17:56
Shurik_damn, doesn't read utf-8 tags17:56
Shurik_although something need to be done to ID3 before it can17:56
Shurik_I like it17:57
Shurik_no, now it runs fine... wicked17:58
Shurik_alright, it must be a phenomenon known as "developer's presence"17:59
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Lurialol18:12
Luriahttps://www.delta.com/myitinerary/servlet/MyItineraryServlet?cmd=searchBySm18:12
Luriacheck out the favicon18:13
Shurik_?18:13
Shurik_hmmmmmm18:13
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Shurik_svastika? :)18:13
Lurialooks like sun to me18:13
Shurik_yes, it is sun18:15
Shurik_good eye18:15
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bergie_http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/maemo_social_news_launched.html18:21
Nermalhum18:22
Nermalscrolling down on that page gives me lots of the bottom navbars18:22
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kupsitHello18:25
kupsitN800 user here. Lovin it18:25
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straind`cfxstftscdfcfcfdgerrrryetyteytgyyetreytgvryyrtyvtryrtetrvfyrfyerfyehr18:40
straind`cdxsfdw5rere6r635t6etvgsfatwre18:40
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straind`     opd18:40
Shurik_straind: oh yeah?18:41
_Monkeyyeah is there a map that kinda puts all that into a table so people new to the maemo scene have an easier time of it? :)18:41
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straind` jopujjhtyuiopiuuuioooiuuytrewqqqacvgvgvvddszxzdeerrffdsacccbvvbnmmbhgy18:41
Shurik_okay, tell your cat to get off the keyboard18:42
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straind` opd18:42
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straind`  gfug8y8tyb58tyu58698yu69b8u8utyu8utut8u8gut9urgt9ub9u8b9utribtrutghtuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu18:42
straind`micahel18:43
straind`emily18:43
Shurik_frogpad?18:43
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straind`dyddyyuilkhgfytytytytytytytytytytytytytytytytytyttttttttttttttttt18:44
straind` opd18:45
straind` gfdytsgfdytsgygytegyrfye18:45
straind`gytfdyduyfhuty5967b58kit1023456789011121322222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222218:45
mgedminstraind`: there's a cat on your keyboard18:46
sparrwi wish the 770 made a noise immediately when it started to boot...  would be nice feedback when im not looking at it18:46
straind`[]][][][][[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''';;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,...........................................................................///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////gg18:46
straind`h18:46
Shurik_cat that knows Alt+ sequences18:47
straind` opdfghuytrr7er7ey7rfyeyreyty7ytr7yt57ygyrgyegyeytgtygytgvrrrrrvgvrgvcgfccccccccccccccvfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff18:47
straind`09876543210111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111155555555555555555555555555555555555555555556999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999666666666666666666666666588888888888888889999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777778888888888888888888888888818:48
straind`gfyhfghudyhfruthurthi18:48
straind` opd18:49
Shurik_and this is what happens when coffe with extra sugar is spilled onto the frogpad18:49
straind`                                                                      fhuyhyurhuyhfdfudyhturthurthrturhtr18:49
straind`uhyuhbyuhyudhfyudf                                                                                                                                                  hbhbhbvgvvvvvvvhhhhhhhbbnbhj18:49
X-Fade_Ok, this gets annoying. I think someone is asking for a ban...18:49
straind`Sorry.  My son got to the computer.18:50
straind`My cat can't type names like that.18:51
X-Fade_straind`: Open notepad and let him use that..18:52
straind`I forgot to do it when I stepped away.18:52
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o c0ffee18:57
c0ffeetada18:57
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c0ffeeworks again :-/18:58
*** c0ffee sets mode: -o c0ffee18:58
c0ffeebut i guess that's solved anyway :)18:58
*** qgil changes topic to "maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | https://maemo.org/news/ and fav! | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/"18:58
qgillog to https://maemo.org/news/ and fav!18:58
Abulafia#maemo - you are being recorded for perpetuity...18:59
koenqgil: password?18:59
_Monkeypassword is "rootme" (change it instantly)18:59
qgilyour garage account18:59
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c0ffeewith http, anonymous view is possible19:00
qgilc0ffee: do you see the little hearets and fav counts?19:01
qgilhearts19:01
c0ffeewhen logged in, yes19:01
disq_Monkey: good monkey19:01
_Monkeydisq: sorry...19:01
qgilc0ffee: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181519:02
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c0ffeeas a newcomer joining #maemo, i'd prefer to see news without hearts instead a 403 w/o any help :)19:05
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qgilc0ffee: I don't get the joke :)19:08
disqlet me fav my fave app, kagu :P19:09
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Abulafiasigh... getting a touchscreen in linux to run isnt hard (from these docs).... but it aint fun.19:11
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c0ffeeqgil, joke?19:16
c0ffeeqgil, i just meant that if somebody joins #maemo and reads the topic, and wants to see the news, all he gets as a 40319:16
c0ffeeqgil, so I'd rather put the http://maemo.org/news/ in the topic19:16
disqi think you should get rid of https19:17
disqjust use it during authentication19:17
Abulafiawhy19:19
Abulafiahttps sessions are great19:19
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Shurik_:)19:19
disqthey're so sf.net19:19
disqpainfully slow19:19
Luriawell, when your router is down. and you cant vpn to a "safe" connection, i really appreciate perpetual https past authentication19:20
disqkeep https as an option but redirect to http after authentication by default19:21
disqthat's how google does it19:21
Luriaoh, and my home router is down, and i cant vpn to a safe connection at the mo :-(19:21
Shurik_stop hiding things and be free of secure connections19:21
Luriai know, ive had to pause post login on gmail to avoid broadcasting my inbox19:22
Luriabut with customize google, that doesnt happen19:22
disqiirc if you open gmail as https it redirects back to https19:22
sparrwis there an xterm for maemo that can emulate a terminal other than 'xterm'?  vt100, ansi, etc?19:24
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timelessanyone here speak russian? :)19:30
Shurik_da19:30
Phil770_da ?19:31
Phil770_lol19:31
||cwnyet19:31
* Shurik_ seriously19:31
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Shurik_why?19:31
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kulvelardman|gone: got the initialization working :)19:31
lardman|gonekulve: I'm not quite gone :)19:32
lardman|gonekulve: What was wrong?19:32
kulvethe dsp port of the speex casted pointers to int19:32
kulvewhich is only 16bit19:32
kulveand pointers are 16, 23 or 24 (I'm not exactly sure how much)19:33
lardman|goneah, but the DSP runs in bigmem mode19:33
lardman|goneso 16bit won't work19:33
lardman|gonegood to know19:33
kulvein bigmem the pointer is 23 bits, I guess19:34
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lardman|gonenot sure, I just assume the original code was written for non-bigmem19:34
lardman|goneright, really do have to go now, I look forward to hearing your progress on the morrow19:35
lardman|gonebye all19:35
kulvecan the mode be selected..?19:35
Shurik_timeless: so what ya need?19:35
kulvebecause the port is for that exact dsp (c5x)19:35
kulvebut not for dspgw19:35
lardman|gonewhen you compile the kernel I think, bye19:35
kulvebye19:35
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timelessbergie_: how do i get *rid* of the browser stuff from your social news thing? the stuff on garage just collects comments no one will read or answer.19:39
saaibmorning19:39
timelessqgil: please include a url when you file bugs about pages... *grumble* please see how to file a bug <https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=website&component=News&format=guided&rep_platform=ARM&op_sys=Linux>19:39
_Monkeyaloha19:39
timelessnote that you can get https: gmail iff you use the complete correct gmail url w/ https19:39
timelessincomplete urls will get you redirected to http when you're done19:39
timelessshurik: can you switch to russian localization and open help?19:40
timelessi'm trying to decide exactly how to file (or get someone to file)19:40
timelessa bug about the fact that the russian help is slightly broken19:40
Shurik_let's see19:40
Shurik_just regional settings or device language too?19:41
timelessdevice language, sorry19:41
timelessyou need it to give you russian help19:41
Shurik_rebooting19:41
timelesstechnically if you know what you're doing, you can skip it19:42
timelessbut i don't feel like walking through that19:42
* timeless frowns19:42
timelessoh right, certman19:42
Shurik_oh nice, device played USSR Hymn on start up19:42
Shurik_I almost got up19:42
timelessreally? wow19:43
timelessthat's um....19:43
timelessprobably bad19:43
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Shurik_no, kidding19:43
Shurik_alright, all locales in russian now19:43
Shurik_I opened help19:43
Shurik_what else?19:43
timelesslook toward kmaybe the bottom19:43
timelessfor an item that doesn't look very cyrillic19:43
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timelessyou may need to do:19:44
timelessapp menu>third item(second cascadable)>19:44
Shurik_all looks good19:44
timeless>3rd item(first after separator)19:44
timelesswhat os are you running?19:45
Shurik_while in help, right?19:45
timelessyes in help19:45
Shurik_latest + SDHC patches19:45
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timelessin english, that's view>contents19:46
Shurik_4.2007.26-819:46
timelessi can pastebin the translation,i suppose19:46
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Shurik_I see no problems19:46
timelessok, there's a search field at the bottom, right?19:46
timelessenter: Your Nokia19:47
Shurik_Nokia invitation for a call is unnecessary abbriviated19:47
Shurik_but other then that19:47
timelessand search19:47
timelesshrm19:47
timelessare the items in English or Russian?19:47
Shurik_russian19:47
timelessI'm expecting them to be in russian19:47
timelessexcept for a folder19:47
timelesswhich according to the device i saw, and to the sources, isn't19:47
timelessanyway, what did the search results say?19:47
Shurik_0 found19:48
* timeless frowns19:48
* timeless doesn't get it19:48
timelessgot xterm?19:48
Shurik_yes19:48
mgedminshort quiz: what's wrong with this picture: http://mg.pov.lt/media-player-is-insane.png ?19:48
timelessdpkg -l help-contents19:48
timelessi want to know what version you have19:48
timeless2:33, 3:4119:49
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timelesspersonally, i object to the blank between the overflow widget and the clock19:49
timelessbut that's from you using the cpu usage snapshotter19:49
Shurik_4.0-r4891 ?19:50
timelessinstead of xtemrm (sleep 10; osso-screenshot-tool ~/MyDocs/ug.png)19:50
timelessshurik: hrm19:50
timelessodd19:50
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Shurik_it is? :)19:51
timelessthe files i have don't specify the r version19:52
mgedminyes, there was an older version of load-applet that had a nice grayscale version of itself instead of an ugly blank that the current one produces in screenshots19:52
Shurik_I have the latest, KGB approved files19:52
mgedminbut the interesting bit is that media player thinks it's playing two different songs at the same time19:52
timelessmgedmin: i could tell that from the times19:53
timelessalthough i suppose i should have mentioned the two different plaing bits19:53
timelessi think i've seen that19:53
mgedminif I knew how to reproduce this, I'd file a bug19:53
timelessis it actually playing both? :)19:53
timelessand have you installed sysklogd? :)19:54
mgedminno, it's playing one of the two19:54
mgedminalthough I don't remember which one19:54
timelesswhich? :)19:54
mgedminit was a while ago, I just stumbled upon the screenshot just now19:54
mgedminI wanted to attach http://mg.pov.lt/notes-adria-toolbar-bug.png to a new bug report19:55
mgedminlooks like a drawing bug with the toolbar widget19:55
timelessno19:56
mgedminand maybe a layout bug as well (shouldn't the font dropdown be a little narrower to make all the other buttons fit?)19:56
timelessthat's known19:56
timelessit's because you installed fonts19:56
mgedminahh19:56
timelessand the stupid font picker isn't size limited19:56
timelessi believe they fixed that19:56
timelessa bunch of us complained19:56
timelessif you want to file a public bug, i'll tie it to an internal one19:56
timelessheck, i could give you the internal number if you like :)19:56
mgedminI filed a public bug a moment ago19:56
mgedminhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181819:57
timelessarg19:57
* timeless can't find it!19:57
* timeless curses19:58
mgedminheh19:58
mgedmindoes it matter much?  if it's fixed, it'll make its way into the next os release, right?19:58
mgedminand someone will close the public bug then19:58
timelessyeah19:58
timelessbut i'd rather tie bugs sooner19:58
timelessrather than risk them getting lost19:59
timelessqa is underpowered19:59
timelessiirc those are bulleted list and numbered list?20:00
mgedminone of them I don't remember20:00
mgedminthe last one is "save"20:00
timelessno, bulleted list and save20:00
mgedminwhich is the most important button of them all20:00
timelessif you fullscren you can see them20:01
* timeless frowns20:01
mgedminor if I change the theme20:01
timelesswhere the heck is that bug20:01
mgedminis the internal bug about the size of the font picker, or about invisible icons in the popup?20:01
mgedmin'cause I think both ought to get fixed20:01
timelessinteresting question20:02
timelessit's not that they're invisible20:02
timelessit's that they're aligned / placed badly20:02
timelessif you could examine offscreen right20:02
timelessyou'd see the buttons20:02
timelessthe reason that you see nothing is that the top one20:02
timelessbullets, is checkable20:02
* mgedmin pulls out a knife and tries to pull off the right bevel20:02
timelessso all you see is the beginning (The empty checkmark)20:02
mgedminsuddenly it makes sens20:03
mgedmine20:03
timelessi think that notes was supposed to fix their code to be slightly smarter20:03
timelessbut maybe the bug moved out of notes?20:03
timelessthe general way to reproduce the bug is to install xterm20:03
timelesssince it pulls in the fonts20:03
timelessspecifically Bitstream Vera Sans Mono20:03
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timelesstoolbar overflow popup mostly offscreen and useless20:05
timelessis the internal bug20:05
timelesssp3000 filed it20:05
timelessint-5173720:06
timelessfeel free to file a public bug20:06
timelessbut if you're going to file it, and you should20:06
timelessplease include the steps to reproduce20:06
timelessnamely installing xterm (specify which xterm, the one that gets you that font)20:06
timelessoh brother20:07
timelessand please file it20:07
timelessit got a low priority last month20:07
timelessoh hold on20:08
timeless71920:08
timelessis a public bug about this20:08
timelessbut that claims to be fixed20:09
* timeless frowns20:09
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* timeless hates desyncd bug trackers20:09
mgedminhm20:10
timelessok, i've cc'd sp3000 to it20:10
timelessmaybe he can figure out why the public bug is in a different state20:10
* timeless frowns20:10
mgedminregarding your "feel free to file a public bug" remark: I did, it's https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181820:10
mgedmin719 looks similar, but my search for "notes toolbar" didn't let me find it20:11
timelessyeah, well, my search for the notes bug didn't find it either20:12
timelesson my side20:12
timelesssometimes it's better to have a duplicate filed just to make finding bugs easier20:12
timelesse.g. i deeply regret not filing a duplicate of sp3000's internal bug20:12
timelessbecause finding mine would have been easier20:12
timelessoh grumble20:13
timelessyour summary sucks20:13
timelessi'd never find that either20:13
timelesswell, i'd find it, but only because i kept searching for toolbar20:13
timeless"bug" is not valuable as words go20:13
timeless"overflow" is valuable20:13
* timeless resummarizes20:13
timelessand why'd you file it in UI?20:14
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mgedminwhere should I've filed it instead?20:14
timelessnotes? :)20:15
mgedminthere's no such choice20:15
mgedminI suppose "utilities" is the one?20:15
mgedminalso, I thought it was a more generic bug, probably not applicable to just notes20:16
mgedminwhich bug 719 confirms20:16
_MonkeyBug 719 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71920:16
timelessyou filed it in desktop20:16
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timelessif you had filed it in n800 there'd have been a notes20:16
mgedminno I didn't, I filed it in UI20:16
mgedminhuh?20:16
timelesspj20:16
timelessarg20:16
* timeless should go home or sleep or something20:16
mgedminI filed it with https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=N80020:16
* timeless curses20:17
timelessyeah yeah, sorry20:17
mgedmin:)20:17
timelessyes, in the current scheme it belongs in Utiltieshttps://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=N800#Utilties20:17
timelesser20:17
timelessyes, in the current scheme it belongs in Utiltieshttps://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=N800#Utilities20:17
timelesshttps://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=N800&component=&format=guided&rep_platform=ARM&op_sys=Linux20:18
timelesswould help you see that (if you enable js)20:18
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timelesswe're talking w/ quim about how to reorganize the products/components20:19
timelessthey're currently pretty bad :(20:19
timelessthey don't help end users, and they don't help engineers20:19
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timelessok, i've set a dependency, i can't really use the alias field because it's currently taken20:24
timelesshopefully sp3000 can bother someone about it tomorrow20:24
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qgilluria, disq, Shurik_ - the https is justified for the stuff users can do i.e. within garage like uploading new packages that could end up in people's devices - extra security is justified20:59
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*** qgil changes topic to "maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/ | http://maemo.org/news/ login and fav!"21:00
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disqqgil: so you're basically hogging hundreds of maemo.org and garage users (read-only users) for a few authentication-needed read-write operations like uploading files and posting news21:02
qgiltimeless: qgil: please include a url when you file bugs about pages... *grumble* - I do when it's a relevant page I reckon I don't do it when it's obvious (or I'm filking a bug from the tablet and/or in a hurry) - any example I could fix?21:02
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timelessthe news bug you posted21:02
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disqof course people can use the http versions if they wanted to, but for instance they can't fav in http?21:03
timelessit might be obvious to you, and it might be obvious to the person who will fix it21:03
timelessbut it is not obvious to someone searching for a bug about the site21:03
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timelessand it's not obvious to someone browsing through bugs21:04
timelessespecially given how fairly useless the descriptions of components are21:04
timelessand the lack of links in them21:05
pv_why doesn't kagu support ogg? not getting around to do it, or is there a reason?21:05
timelesspv_: if you install ogg-gstreamer, does it not work?21:05
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apple2Has anyone tried the "boot from usb" option of the hacked initfs?21:06
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qgildisq: let me find what "hogging" means exactly  :)21:07
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disqqgil: slow page load times, more load on the server21:08
qgildisq: the idea is that anonymous users can read anything21:09
disqqgil: btw you should also turn on gzip compression if you haven't already21:09
qgildisq: caching takes cares of that besides https21:09
qgilsorry, caching takes care of http and http should be enough to read anything21:09
disqyeah but there is really not much to protect, except file releases and submitted passwords. why make them https and keep the rest http?21:09
pv_timeless: from the code it seems to svan only for mp3's, so not a gst problem21:09
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qgilthen if you need to do additional actions like uploading a deb package you need to have an account21:10
pv_aha,  "FIXME: add support for ogg" :)21:10
qgildisq: I agree the http https relations needs improvement, but why a read.only user needs to jump to https? can ypou provide an example?21:10
mgedminogg support out of the box in the next n800 firmware would be a big PR win for Nokia among open-source developers21:10
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pv_yep, I was quite surprised oggs didn't work in the builtin player21:12
timelessqgil: ack21:12
* timeless generally can't /msg replyy21:12
timelesspv: sigh21:12
timelesspv: does it work in iTunes or iPod?21:13
timelessand does it work in Zune?21:13
timelesscompanies are afraid, very afraid21:13
pv_of patents?21:13
timelessif you want to see apple afraid, there's a public list showing them afraid of it21:13
timelessyes21:13
pv_that I can see21:13
timelessqgil: referencing apple should be fine21:14
mgedminwasn't nokia lobbying for software patents in europe?21:14
disqqgil: there are in fact three classes of users. anonymous, logged in member/user/fanboy, and contributor21:14
timelessmgedmin: that's a question we definitely can't answer :)21:14
disqqgil: what i'm saying is you should only keep the login and the contributor-only pages https21:15
qgilooops will come later21:15
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timelesshttp://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-March/010392.html21:17
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pv_got to love the submarine war. unfortunately it's not restricted to the US21:21
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qgildisq: so, what is a page not subject to contributors? any url21:28
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trevarthananyone want to help me write some code to turn off the screen programatically?21:28
timelesstrevarthan: just use the suid bit and the vesa thing i mentioned at the beginning21:29
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timelessit should "just work"21:29
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disqqgil: news-voting. wiki-editing. no need for https there.21:29
trevarthanIf anyone is curious what timeless is talking about, here's the conversation from last night: http://www.pastebin.ca/65724021:30
trevarthantimeless: I'd prefer to not do suid.21:30
qgildisq: so you mean https for login and then back to http being remembered wiuth cookie or something21:30
disqqgil: yeah21:31
disqsession cookie21:31
timelessthat's useless21:31
timelessi can steal your cookie21:31
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timelessand then impersonate you21:31
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qgildisq: in fact I asked henri from the Midgard crew something like this and he told me (if I remember corectly) that they would look at it21:31
timelessyou have two choices21:31
timelesseither make the cookie only valid for most operations21:31
timelessin whcih case, it'll work21:32
timelessor try to assign the cookie an ip range restriction21:32
disqkeep client's ip adress in a session var just for extra security. ip changes, redirect to /login21:32
timelessthat fails horribly for people w/ proxies21:32
florianre21:32
timelessdisq: ^^21:32
timelessdisq: been there, tried that21:32
timelessbugzilla used that for a while21:32
timelesspeople really hate it when they use proxies21:32
timelessand guess what21:32
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timelessnokians all use proxies21:33
qgildisq: the conversation started because of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156221:33
disqat least try turning on gzip compression if you haven't already21:34
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qgildisq: to tell you the truth I have no idea - I'll ask21:34
* timeless wonders if maemo suppresses caching :)21:34
trevarthanI agree with konttori's cookie idea.21:34
trevarthankeep it simple.21:35
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disqbtw you guys should also write a script to clean broken links in the wiki docs21:35
timelessvoted cookie assigned to logged in users is broken21:35
timelesssome of us use a number of browsers or devices21:36
timelessif you assign a field into the database, that's one thing21:36
disqlots of docs are broken just because maemo.org changed infra what, 3 times now?21:36
* timeless chuckles21:36
trevarthanso what? you really think someone is going to vote spam?21:36
timelessno21:36
timelesspersonally, i've neutralized voting wherever i've gone21:36
qgildisq: maemo.org had the same site since the beginning until this year afaikj21:36
qgiltrevarthan: if you read the comment you'll see I agree with you  :)21:37
qgilthe comments in the bug I mean21:37
trevarthanyeah. you're Quim, I guess.21:37
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timelesspersonally, i think it's trivial to just have two buckets21:37
timelessratings from logged in people21:37
timelessand ratings from annonymous21:37
timelessif you get more than X logged in votes21:38
timelessthen you can drop the anon votes21:38
qgiltimeless: you are the one always insisting in providing feedback to bugs - be my guest21:38
timelessthat way anon people can promote things21:38
timelessqgil: i try things out on people first21:38
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timelessif people don't like it here, i'd sooner not leave a record in the bug :)21:38
timeless(and yes, i know there's a log for the entire channel)21:38
trevarthanI think we need to limit timeless's sentence spam in maemo.org. :)21:39
timeless(but people don't have to read it, people do have to read the bug)21:39
trevarthanCan you use cookies in IRC?21:39
timelessyou can use channel keys21:39
trevarthanj/k, of course.21:39
timelesschannel knocks21:39
* trevarthan runs away21:39
timelesschannel invites/whitelists21:39
timelessthat's about it in terms of server features21:39
trevarthanhey... now you're doing it on purpose...21:39
timelessyou asked for it =b21:40
trevarthanlol21:40
qgildisq: about the wiki /me secretly thinks today that we should simply ddrop most pages, keep it simple and link to ITT wiki21:40
timeless++qgil21:40
timelessless content = less bugs21:40
disqgreat idea :P21:41
trevarthanI agree with qqil.21:41
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qgilkeep maemo wiki for collaboration on stuff that will end up affecting maemo for real i.e. the current discussion about sections, tags etc21:41
disqso, mke2fs /dev/sda1 on maemo.org? mkreiserfs? ext3?21:41
qgilthe maemo wiki is a good place for document the progress made on the mailing list21:41
qgilone day that becomes official, welcome21:41
sparrwgah21:42
sparrwxterm on the 770 doesnt seem to do anything other than xterm terminal emulation21:42
sparrwand thats like the ONE terminal that doesnt work with my sco unix server21:42
timelesssparrw: what should it do?21:42
qgilin fact it was mostly sparr who started with the idea of giving priority to itt wiki21:42
sparrwqgil: i have changed my mind  :)21:43
sparrwtimeless: vt100, linux, pc420, wyse50, ANY protocol other than xterm...21:43
sparrwansi21:43
qgilsparr can you share your changelog ?  ;)21:43
timelessheh21:43
timelessqgil: like anyone can actually parse changelogs21:44
sparrwqgil: neg(*)21:44
timelesswe tried getting an n800 to do that last night, it failed miserably :(21:44
qgilhttp://maemo.org/news/ alogorythm starts to work even if we have almost no votes: the latest new hasn't hit the top of the news main page but falls in the 4th position21:46
qgilif you guys could log in and fav your preferred items now, the page would probably change considerably21:46
timelesscalendar and 300 were the only ones i saw change21:47
timelessmostly jitter21:47
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qgiltimeless: now we have no history and almost no votes, as soon as we get more archive and votes the moves are expected to be more fluent and logical21:48
timelessqgil: is this dig like?21:49
timelessor digg whatever21:49
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* timeless doesn't understand the point21:49
timelessand in bug 156221:49
_MonkeyBug 1562 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156221:49
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qgilnot only digg, it is based in other factors, read Henri's article currently at the top to know more21:49
timelessare you talking about downloads (1..5) score21:49
sparrwyou want us to 'fav' individual stories?  that adds them to our fav list?  why would we use such a list?21:49
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timelessor are you saying 0/+121:50
qgilyou fav stories to push them up in the ranks21:50
timelesshow does an old story fall away?21:50
qgiltimeless the formula to get the karma is more complex that this21:50
timelesstime relative to last fav?21:50
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qgilit takes in account votes, time since publishing, karma inherited from technorati (or something like this, now I don't remember clearly) - many factors21:51
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sparrwqgil: yes, but you also fav them to add them to your fav list...  whats the point of that list?21:51
qgiltimeless: the point is that currently there are in fact a lot of news / posts / images / videos tagged maemo elsewhere, and this is a mechanism to get not only all that in volumes but also a daily snapshot of the most interesting21:53
* timeless tries to figure out how that relates to planet21:53
timeless(which browser still hasn't managed to reach?)21:54
qgilsparrw in principle the idea is that you might want to change your mind - you might also want to go back to that link you remember you liked but you don't remember...21:54
timelessgoogle :)21:54
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timelesseveryone should just browse links using google :)21:55
timelessit'll remember ;)21:55
qgildunno, is a beta of something that, in brief, hasn't been applied in community projects before - or not that we know - so just try and tell us what you like, what you miss, what you think hasn't got a point21:55
sparrwqgil: make it ajax, so i dont have to load TWO pages every time i want to fave something, then ill consider it21:55
qgilsparrw I agree, I was about to file a bug / enhancement request21:55
timelessdoes clicking a heart fav it today, or just let me try to fav it?21:55
* timeless couldn't figure that out :)21:55
qgiltimeless: your favs are your favs - just like your stars are your stars in google mail and many other examples21:56
qgil"try to fav"? I don't understand21:56
timelessqgil: in google mail, if i click a star, it says "you've starred this"21:56
c0ffeethis fav is your fav21:56
c0ffeethis fav is my fav21:56
timelesswhen i clicked the heart, i got some strange input21:56
c0ffeefrom maemo garage to maemo planet21:57
c0ffeelalala...21:57
timelessand couldn't figure out if that meant21:57
* timeless sends c0ffee to an island21:57
qgiltimeless: do you mind filing a but about this unclear step? I agree with you21:57
timelesslemme finnish this comment21:58
timelessthen i'll file21:58
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trevarthank-s[WORK]: you around?21:59
timelessqgil: is this news or something else?22:00
qgilnow only the first 3 entries have extended text, but it looks we could have it for th whole top 10 in the body22:00
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: yep22:00
qgiltimeless: what do you mean?22:00
timelessthis bug you want me to file22:00
timelessremember, i really don't have a clue how maemo.org is organized :)22:01
qgilit's website > news22:01
timelessok22:01
qgilwell, you are in the "News" section22:01
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trevarthank-s[WORK]: I tried installing the iphone kb demo. got an error22:01
timelessno, i lost that web page about 5 pages and 10 mins ago22:01
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: which error?22:01
trevarthanhttp://www.pastebin.ca/65729322:01
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: I was doing packages in too hacky way, I'm trying to fix the packaging right now22:02
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: you should install efl-core and python-efl-core22:02
trevarthanthey're installed.22:02
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: sure?22:02
k-s[WORK]ls -l /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/evas22:03
trevarthanhttp://www.pastebin.ca/65729622:03
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trevarthanls: /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/evas: No such file or directory22:03
k-s[WORK]ouch22:04
k-s[WORK]dpkg -L efl-core22:04
k-s[WORK]actually22:04
k-s[WORK]dpkg -L python-efl-core22:04
trevarthanall I get is '/.'22:05
k-s[WORK]fsck22:05
trevarthanthe first one gives results, second, not so much22:05
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k-s[WORK]trevarthan: the damn package is empty22:07
trevarthanyeah. that's not cool.22:08
k-s[WORK]I'll fix, brb22:08
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timelessqgil: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182022:14
qgiltimeless: thanks a lot22:14
keesj_I need to find a way to manage my evenings22:16
keesj_every time I take so long getting started :(22:17
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keesj_k-s[WORK]: what configure do you use for evas? I have this ./configure --enable-software-16-x11 --prefix=/usr but it's not complete22:18
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keesj_k-s[WORK]: what configure do you use for evas? I have this ./configure --enable-software-16-x11 --prefix=/usr but it's not complete22:18
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k-s[WORK]trevarthan: it will take a bit longer, power failure here ruined the compile22:19
k-s[WORK]keesj_: check maemo-efl svn, there you have my configure.addopts22:19
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keesj_k-s[WORK]: from googlecode?22:20
k-s[WORK]keesj_: no, garage22:20
* trevarthan wanders off to talk to the receptionist22:21
k-s[WORK]keesj_: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/scripts/?root=maemo-efl22:21
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keesj_thanks k-s building as we speak22:30
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k-s[WORK]keesj_: I was about to change "debian/" to be able to build evas/ecore engines selectively22:35
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keesj_ecore failed with _m4_divert_diversion > google -> Don't use autoconf 2.5222:38
keesj_autoconf is on 2.13 in sbox :P22:39
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k-s[WORK]keesj_: weird22:39
k-s[WORK]I run it fine here22:40
k-s[WORK]2.13 here too22:40
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keesj_I have copied the maemo-efl/scripts/e17 to the e17 cvs co of today22:42
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keesj_never ming I will try to find the answer myself !22:43
keesj_mind22:43
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k-s[WORK]keesj_, trevarthan: I've uploaded new packages23:11
k-s[WORK]could you check?23:11
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pupnik_flash!  ah-ahh!23:17
k-s[WORK]pupnik_: ?23:17
pupnik_there was a funny queen song about flash gordon23:17
*** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik23:17
pupnikFLASH!  ah-ahhhh!23:17
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pupnikhey k-s[WORK] do you want to work on a fast snes emulator with me?23:19
k-s[WORK]pupnik: no time :-(23:19
pupnikok thanks... i'd really like to meet some of the maemo people someday23:19
pupniki feel great kinship with y'all :)23:19
k-s[WORK]pupnik: we'll have bossa event next year, you should come23:20
k-s[WORK]will be hosted in a beautiful beach here in Brazil, great hackers, etc..23:20
k-s[WORK]:-)23:20
k-s[WORK]http://www.bossaconference.org/  <-- this year version, the first one23:21
pupnikdragging my flesh to another part of the earth is too expensive for me right now23:21
pupniki am vashti from 'the machine stops'23:22
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trevarthanHey, does BREW or J2ME work on maemo?23:22
gla55_brew certainly not23:22
gla55_haven't been keeping up on the java side of things23:23
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pupnikVashti isolated herself-it was necessary, for neither day nor night existed under the ground23:23
gla55_if there's a vm good enough then yes..23:23
trevarthanMy company is thinking about doing some phone development. I don't know anything about what people use. Which one is most popular?23:23
gla55_pupnik: you've mentioned machine stops before?23:23
pupnikShe thought, "I have not the time."23:23
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: fortunately no :-D23:23
gla55_or i wonder if i saw a reference to it somewhere else a little while ago23:23
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trevarthanHave you guys ever dealt with BREW or J2ME before?23:24
pupnikyes gla55_ - prophecy23:24
pupniki mention it every few weeks23:24
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: fortunately not more than necessary :-D23:24
pupniki do not wish to board the airship23:24
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k-s[WORK]trevarthan: these techs will not apply to maemo, it's more for a desktop/laptop (old-age, 5-10 years ago) than a phone23:25
pupnikVashti was seized with the terrors of direct experience. She shrank back into the room, and the wall closed up again.23:25
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: have you checked the new packages? *_indt4*23:25
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trevarthank-s: not yet. I got pulled into a meeting and redirected to work on mobile device software due to someone around here noticing my interest in maemo. :)23:26
trevarthannot that they're the same thing, but management doesn't really realize that. And I'm fine with it.23:27
trevarthanpupnik: what the heck are you reciting?23:28
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pupnikone of the most visionary short stories of the 20th century - written in 1905-1909 (differeing accounts)23:29
pupnikpredicted irc culture23:29
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trevarthangot a link?23:29
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pupnikyes but goddamn firefox won't remember the hilighted url23:29
pupnikhttp://brighton.ncsa.uiuc.edu/prajlich/forster.html23:30
pupnikit dehilights it as soon as firefox loses window focus (as in synergy use)23:31
thebigzDoes anyone know wifi settings files are? Specificly I need to find where my WEP-PSK is kept, my work connection is not working, I think it is because the PSK is being copy/pasted wrong23:31
trevarthanWhere the heck would I go to talk to someone who has previous experience with embedded phone app devel? Not really an open source friendly environment...   maybe the symbian folks?23:31
madamhello all.  do you happen to know the status of EDS (evolution data server) over dbus?  can i expect it to work?23:31
gla55_trevarthan: i've done some j2me23:31
gla55_trevarthan: and i do symbian for living23:31
trevarthanprivate message coming up. :)23:32
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madamthebigz: gconftool-2 -R / | grep -i wepkey123:35
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Phil770_does anyone know if anything vaguely like Netstumbler exists in a version that can be used on the 770 ?23:44
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pupnikno never and you will be reported to the police23:47
pupnikthis is a hacker tool illegal in germany since may 200723:47
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MoRpHeUzPhil770_: maybe kismet ?23:53
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Phil770_kismet ?23:56
_Monkeykismet is probably http://eko.one.pl/maemo mistral user or http://kismetwireless.net/code/kismet-svn-devel-n800.deb but don't complain if it doesn't work23:56
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Phil770_I love that bot.23:56
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pupnikMITM?23:58
_Monkeysomebody said MITM was a 'Monkey in the middle' attack to compromise secure communications: http://monkey.org/~dugsong/dsniff/faq.html23:58
pupnikthis is also illegal23:58
pupniki know the people in this channel would prefer to ignore politics23:59
pupnikthe problem is...23:59
pupnikPOLITICS WON'T IGNORE YOU23:59

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