| sciboy | pupnik, Dunno what the difference is, it's not the backlight alone determining the visibility. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| pupnik | have you ever used a flashlight in the midday sun? | 00:00 |
| _Shurik__ | I have to pick it up to look when driving at daytime | 00:00 |
| _Shurik__ | I think n800 screen is awsome still | 00:00 |
| _Shurik__ | we'll see more sun tolerant solutions in the future | 00:01 |
| _Shurik__ | it's a kinda anti beach browsing solutions | 00:01 |
| sciboy | pupnik, If you put a reflective surface under the screen with minimal space the sun wouldn't be an issue. | 00:01 |
| pupnik | the n770 is too bright already. i am a cave dweller | 00:01 |
| _Shurik__ | they meant to say if you're on the sun - do something fun! Get off line damn it | 00:01 |
| pupnik | heh yes "transflective" i think | 00:01 |
| frob | http://pastebin.com/d6d2f033a the new browser doesn't even start in scratchbox | 00:02 |
| frob | maybe timeless is around, but I already abused his patience today :) | 00:03 |
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| sciboy | pupnik, Yup that's the one. | 00:05 |
| _Shurik__ | so not n800 anyway | 00:05 |
| _Shurik__ | n990 will probably have that, and that built in 9mm luger I wanted for self defence | 00:06 |
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| maddler | damn! too warm!!! here!!! | 00:22 |
| maddler | 40 degrees are too much! | 00:22 |
| pupnik | btw the sdl sound output of many games is problematic | 00:22 |
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| * pupnik gains renewed respect for the stability of it2006 | 00:27 | |
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| maddler | eh... I didn't had the time to restore the whole thing after the upgrade... :( | 00:28 |
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| frob | I don't know if it's normal, but my graphical environment scratchbox is damn unstable, even open a "save as" dialogue in maemopad kill the app | 00:35 |
| frob | s/kill/kills/ | 00:35 |
| infobot_ | frob meant: I don't know if it's normal, but my graphical environment scratchbox is damn unstable, even open a "save as" dialogue in maemopad kills the app | 00:35 |
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| _Shurik__ | that's what I've heard too | 00:36 |
| frob | _Shurik__: what? | 00:37 |
| _Shurik__ | that emulation is non existant pretty much | 00:38 |
| frob | sigh | 00:39 |
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| * frob wants to kill someone | 00:39 | |
| * _Shurik__ hands frob his Makarov | 00:41 | |
| _Shurik__ | just pull the slide back | 00:41 |
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| frob | frack, I have to reboot just to change the goddamn target, since sb assumes there are other sessions open, while there AREN'T | 00:43 |
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| zabi2 | hey | 00:48 |
| zabi2 | has anyone here been about to install ssh on the nokia 770? | 00:49 |
| zabi2 | has anyone here been able to install ssh on the nokia 770 i mean? | 00:49 |
| pupnik | got a new emulator | 00:51 |
| * pupnik plays space quest 3 | 00:52 | |
| pupnik | yeah zabi2 dropbear or ... uh openssh - dropbear here iirc | 00:52 |
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| maddler | zabi2: yup... both OpenSSH and Dropbear... | 01:00 |
| user__ | does anyone know how i can get fbreader to auto-detect my ebooks? they are all in mmc2/ebooks. | 01:01 |
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| frob | and now, why on earth do you have to restart af-fb-init.sh a _couple_ of times, with xephyr dying now and then, before actually getting to see the hildon desktop ? | 01:05 |
| maddler | user__: dunno... check in fbreader docs... | 01:05 |
| maddler | ;) | 01:05 |
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| pupnik | frob, mine is broken here - never get a desktop | 01:07 |
| frob | ypeee, xephyr dies again! | 01:08 |
| frob | pupnik: wow, I should count myself *lucky* then? :D | 01:08 |
| frob | pupnik: and this is supposed to be the *stable* sdk | 01:08 |
| pupnik | i seem to get "root window unavailible (maybe another wm is running?)" | 01:09 |
| pupnik | well i'm sure there's a solution | 01:09 |
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| frob | pupnik: one which doesn't involve a mass killing? | 01:10 |
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| HumanPenguin | Hi Folks. Is their somewhere on the maemo.org site that I can set up a scratch project to get information on who may be interested. I am thinking of setting up a HAM Radio project that uses APRS (automatic Position Reporting system) with Maemo Mapper. | 01:13 |
| pupnik | i don't know of one. you can submit to the applicationcatalog wishlist or start a thread in the internettablettalk.com forums | 01:15 |
| HumanPenguin | I have started a thread on internettablettalk.com. Just wanted somewhere that I could post status etc while I experiment and decide if its possible. I suppose I could set up a Yahoo group or something (Hildon Ham) and try to gether interested folks | 01:17 |
| _Shurik__ | APRS? | 01:18 |
| _Shurik__ | so how it going to work> | 01:18 |
| maddler | HumanPenguin: you could have a blog on maemopeople.org :) | 01:18 |
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| HumanPenguin | APRS is a HAM protocol you connect a PC to a RADIO and a GPS and send you location over a set channel. You also listen to other stations and print thier location on a map. Also has messageing system etc built into the protocol. www.aprs.net explains the protocol. How it would work TBC | 01:20 |
| _Shurik__ | ahha | 01:21 |
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| HumanPenguin | Well in most situs we conect a TNC (like a radio modem and send signals that way. But we have several apps out their that comunicate via a sound card doing the TNC job in software. So I am thinking if I convert a Bluetooth Headset and mount it to my radio I can then communicate via bluetooth to the radio just translating the data into sound. | 01:22 |
| _Shurik__ | and what do you use ham radio for? | 01:22 |
| pupnik | anybody with an n800 want to test freesci? (sierra game interpreter) | 01:22 |
| _Shurik__ | I mean, I know, but like how often and why? | 01:22 |
| DaniloCesar | pupnik, Ok | 01:23 |
| DaniloCesar | Do you have a deb package of it? | 01:23 |
| pupnik | no, needs to be started from terminal | 01:23 |
| DaniloCesar | No problem... | 01:23 |
| DaniloCesar | python or C? | 01:24 |
| DaniloCesar | pupnik, send me.... | 01:24 |
| pupnik | both | 01:24 |
| DaniloCesar | nice.... | 01:24 |
| HumanPenguin | In this case the radio is used to pass location and message info among other hams in the area. We have a reapeater network that covers most of the metro areas in the US. we use APRS a lot for search and rescu type stuff. And just to play looking at folks location on maps as we drive etc. It is genrally done on 146MHZ so line of sight only. | 01:24 |
| _Shurik__ | I see | 01:25 |
| frob | cool | 01:26 |
| HumanPenguin | Ham is pretty popular in the US. ~700k users | 01:26 |
| frob | could it be used to *spy* on people? :D | 01:26 |
| _Shurik__ | My friend is HAM-ster (?) :) | 01:26 |
| _Shurik__ | just could never figure out is that something I'm interested in :) | 01:26 |
| frob | I mean, aprs transmitter in the car, receiver with maemo mapper on the other side, very sci-fi esque :D | 01:27 |
| _Shurik__ | well, he was untill his transiver got stolen | 01:27 |
| _Shurik__ | basically 101 reasons not to pay attention to the road | 01:27 |
| frob | uh, who the hell would steal a ham radio? | 01:27 |
| _Shurik__ | well, it looks expensive | 01:28 |
| HumanPenguin | Nods u need to be a bit of a nerd to use it. As for spying Not leagally :o) given that you need a radio $100+ and PC of some form $150 + a GPS $50 all used its a dard expensive bug. But I have it on my car and technically if the car was stolen itsa a pricy lojack | 01:28 |
| _Shurik__ | it was one of those submersible Yaesu radios | 01:28 |
| _Shurik__ | 350-400 bucks or so | 01:29 |
| HumanPenguin | I have that for this but I have a mobile in the car 8900 the radio I am planning to use for this is about $350 new but I have a used one that would work cost me $80 | 01:29 |
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| _Shurik__ | I just wouldn't know what to talk about | 01:30 |
| _Shurik__ | Um.. so you're driving? Me too | 01:30 |
| _Shurik__ | and you can't copy/paste | 01:30 |
| HumanPenguin | Frob: Steal the car not the radio the equipment is hidden in the trunk. | 01:31 |
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| HumanPenguin | frob: PS used ham radios sell well if you know who to sell them to. of couse selling them without a licence can be hard | 01:32 |
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| HumanPenguin | frob: go look www.hamradio.com few mins looking at the prices will tell you why they might get stolen. Unfortunaly 700k users dosent help with the supply and damand priceing equation ;o( | 01:37 |
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| lasko | I've got a question maybe someone could answer. I'm looking for an IAX client for the Nokia 770.. is there one out there? | 01:43 |
| HumanPenguin | frob again: cooler way of spying. This is open data and we have repeaters that sync it to the internet. This link http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=aa4rc points to a friend of mine driving up the GA400 as we speak | 01:44 |
| pupnik | lasko i don't know - if you see a GTK based iaxclient, it might be fairly easy to port... http://iaxclient.sourceforge.net/ | 01:45 |
| lasko | hmm | 01:45 |
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| lasko | Haven't had much experience with that.. kinda hoped someone already did it.. Ok thanks I'm off to try some porting. | 01:46 |
| frob | HumanPenguin: wow | 01:48 |
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| HumanPenguin | Frob: as I say the HAM community has reapeaters all over the place. the set up is such that even though most HTs can only handle 5w the repeater network will transmit it all over a city and the internet then syncs from city to city. | 01:51 |
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| HumanPenguin | OK I created a Yahoo group [HildonHam ยท N800 HAM Radio] Ill post my experiments there | 02:05 |
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| _Shurik__ | more like standing up 400 :) | 02:17 |
| _Shurik__ | it's a mess right now | 02:17 |
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| HumanPenguin | You live in the Atlanta Area ? | 02:19 |
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| fro1 | does anybody have doxygen packages for amel ? | 02:37 |
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| NeoStrider | hello folks | 03:25 |
| NeoStrider | lks | 03:27 |
| NeoStrider | lks | 03:27 |
| NeoStrider | lks | 03:27 |
| NeoStrider | anybody home? | 03:27 |
| NeoStrider | ome? | 03:27 |
| NeoStrider | ome? | 03:27 |
| NeoStrider | ome? | 03:27 |
| pupnik | mmm | 03:27 |
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| NeoStrider | hello pupnik | 03:28 |
| pupnik | whas is new NeoStrider | 03:28 |
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| NeoStrider | my hype...its always like new =-P | 03:29 |
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| raku2 | Can anyone else login and edit pages on the Maemo wiki? | 03:52 |
| raku2 | I was trying to edit http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot but can't login even though I have an account | 03:53 |
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| pupnik | raku2: several people have login problems on maemo.org | 03:54 |
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| jpt9 | hey | 03:54 |
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| jpt9 | has anyone ported elinks to maemo? it's much better than links. | 03:55 |
| pupnik | wow, my app crashed the 770 and created a strange LCD display mode that slowly faded to white, whith a grey bar slowly moving down the screen drawing junk on the right hand side | 03:55 |
| jpt9 | well, it isn't exactly porting; more like cross-compiling | 03:55 |
| pupnik | !google elinks+maemo ? | 03:56 |
| jpt9 | doesn't seem like it... | 03:57 |
| pupnik | elinks: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libgnutls-dev libgpmg1-dev liblua50-dev liblualib50-dev libperl-dev smbclient | 03:57 |
| jpt9 | okay how about recompiling links with graphics support :-) | 03:58 |
| jpt9 | (like the -g option) | 03:58 |
| pupnik | yeah a lightweight browser with gfx would be nice | 03:59 |
| jpt9 | that would be like the fastest graphical browser on the n770 :-) | 03:59 |
| jpt9 | there's already links... | 03:59 |
| jpt9 | shouldn't be too hard to recompile it and change one option (well, there are probably dependencies for libraries for all the gfx formats...) | 04:00 |
| raku2 | pupnik: thanks. | 04:00 |
| jpt9 | ??? | 04:01 |
| pupnik | links: debian/changelog: * This is not the 2.xx client. No graphics or ECMA[java]script. | 04:01 |
| pupnik | hmm | 04:01 |
| pupnik | aah links2 | 04:01 |
| jpt9 | oh... sorry. | 04:01 |
| jpt9 | didn't realize that. | 04:01 |
| jpt9 | what do you think? | 04:02 |
| pupnik | might have a go at it | 04:02 |
| jpt9 | considering the speed (or lack thereof) of opera, you would have tons of adoring fans :-D | 04:03 |
| pupnik | wondering whether to leave out javascript | 04:03 |
| jpt9 | hmm... | 04:03 |
| jpt9 | good question. | 04:04 |
| jpt9 | if you can turn it off in the links preferences, and it doesn't make it too big, i'd say keep it (unless it causes tons of problems) | 04:04 |
| pupnik | it's disabled by default | 04:06 |
| jpt9 | oh. | 04:06 |
| jpt9 | try it without it first. | 04:06 |
| pupnik | yeah, trying to figure out why the mouse support isn't working | 04:07 |
| jpt9 | what's wrong? | 04:08 |
| pupnik | need to build libgpmg1-dev, i think | 04:09 |
| jpt9 | oh. | 04:09 |
| pupnik | ok got it installed | 04:13 |
| pupnik | session.o: In function `goto_url_f':session.c:(.text+0xc8ac): undefined reference to `jsint_execute_seq' | 04:14 |
| jpt9 | it doesn't work, then? | 04:14 |
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| pupnik | ok fixed that | 04:15 |
| jpt9 | it works? | 04:16 |
| jpt9 | have you tried links -g yet? | 04:16 |
| jpt9 | just so you know, google seems to crash links on my ibook when it's in graphics mode. | 04:18 |
| pupnik | ty | 04:18 |
| pupnik | the mouse/stylus support might not be so easy - lots of problems with gpm | 04:20 |
| jpt9 | apparently it does subpixel antialiasing... | 04:20 |
| jpt9 | oh... | 04:20 |
| jpt9 | even if the stylus doesn't work, it'll still be useful. | 04:21 |
| pupnik | trying to hack it in.. | 04:21 |
| pupnik | works, with mouse and graphics :P | 04:22 |
| jpt9 | really?! | 04:22 |
| pupnik | yep | 04:22 |
| jpt9 | can you post a .deb? | 04:22 |
| pupnik | it doesn't do fullscreen, the fonts are ugly, and it's not hildonized yet | 04:24 |
| jpt9 | oh. | 04:24 |
| pupnik | so bluetooth keyboard only | 04:24 |
| pupnik | but it's not half bad | 04:24 |
| * jpt9 doesn't have a bluetooth keyboard... | 04:24 | |
| jpt9 | how much work does it take to hildonize an app? and what do the fonts look like? | 04:25 |
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| pupnik | well it's a bold fat serif on a couple of sites that shouldn't have em | 04:26 |
| pupnik | but it's doing good with heise.de | 04:26 |
| jpt9 | are they antialiased? | 04:26 |
| pupnik | yep | 04:26 |
| jpt9 | sub-pixel? | 04:26 |
| jpt9 | (not that it's really possible to tell... hit esc > options > video options to check) | 04:27 |
| pupnik | is the 770 RGB or BGR? | 04:27 |
| jpt9 | not sure... | 04:27 |
| jpt9 | try RGB. | 04:27 |
| jpt9 | is it beautiful? | 04:28 |
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| * fro1 grubles for having to compile avahi by himself | 04:31 | |
| fro1 | *grumbles | 04:32 |
| pupnik | it's very nice jpt9 | 04:32 |
| pupnik | uses 0% cpu and 13% of memory | 04:32 |
| jpt9 | :-D | 04:32 |
| jpt9 | links2 is awesome. | 04:32 |
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| SeRi | what is links2? | 04:35 |
| _Monkey | rumour has it links2 is awesome | 04:35 |
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| pupnik | i had my stylus in my mouth and had to sneeze | 04:35 |
| pupnik | now i can't find my stylus | 04:35 |
| jpt9 | lol... | 04:35 |
| jpt9 | it's a version of links that can do graphics using X :-) | 04:35 |
| SeRi | ah is just links | 04:35 |
| SeRi | but 2nd version?!? | 04:35 |
| HumanPenguin | lol | 04:35 |
| jpt9 | possibly the fastest graphical browser on earth! | 04:35 |
| jpt9 | great for n770s :-) | 04:35 |
| SeRi | c00l | 04:35 |
| disq | guadec 2008 in istanbul? best news i've heard this week! | 04:38 |
| fro1 | istanbul? wtf? | 04:40 |
| disq | wtfw? | 04:41 |
| fro1 | well, it's.. unusual | 04:41 |
| disq | international open source gatherings don't usually happen here, yeah. | 04:42 |
| fro1 | heeeeeeelp I need avahi on scratchbox!!! | 04:42 |
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| jpt9 | pupnik: can you send me a copy to try (even if you haven't hildonized it yet)? as a temporary measure, i'm running x11vnc on the n770 so I can use my ibook as a keyboard :-) | 04:44 |
| disq | looking for SDL gurus | 04:46 |
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| pupnik | am i the only person who has a digital camera that refuses to focus on the 770 screen? | 04:53 |
| jpt9 | lemme go try mine... | 04:53 |
| pupnik | jpt9: it wouldn't run on your system | 04:53 |
| jpt9 | ??? | 04:53 |
| disq | i could try with my dslr | 04:53 |
| jpt9 | what do you mean? | 04:53 |
| jpt9 | it's running 2007HE. | 04:53 |
| pupnik | well the gpm package won't install | 04:54 |
| jpt9 | oh. | 04:54 |
| pupnik | you could copy the libraries over manually | 04:54 |
| jpt9 | where would i put them? | 04:54 |
| pupnik | /usr/lib | 04:54 |
| jpt9 | how much work does it take to hildonize an app? | 04:55 |
| pupnik | oh and for keyboard/mouse on the 770 i usually run synergy when i'm at my desk | 04:55 |
| jpt9 | ah. | 04:55 |
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| pupnik | i wouldn't try to hildonize elinks | 04:56 |
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| jpt9 | i thought this was links2? | 04:56 |
| pupnik | sorry links2 | 04:56 |
| jpt9 | why not? | 04:56 |
| pupnik | it would be like rewriting a lot of it | 04:57 |
| jpt9 | oh. | 04:57 |
| * jpt9 thought it would just be adding a bit of code to handle the keyboard, etc... | 04:57 | |
| pupnik | unfortunately no | 04:57 |
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| * frob ponders the best (and FASTEST) way to port a package from debian to maemo | 04:58 | |
| frob | suggestions ? | 04:58 |
| pupnik | got money? | 04:58 |
| jpt9 | why? | 04:58 |
| frob | heh | 04:58 |
| jpt9 | well, i have money, but no way to transfer it to other people... | 04:58 |
| pupnik | no it's in response to frob | 04:58 |
| frob | and I don't have money, or time | 04:58 |
| jpt9 | oh. | 04:58 |
| pupnik | jpt9: dillo uses gtk1.2 - it'd be easier to port that to hildon | 04:58 |
| jpt9 | oh. | 04:59 |
| jpt9 | that'd be awesome too :-) | 04:59 |
| frob | actually it's a damn boring process | 04:59 |
| frob | maybe there's an 'automated' way to pull and build deps ? | 04:59 |
| * jpt9 thinks pupnik should squeeze all his uber-leet maemo porting/compiling skills into an AI for a with a whiz-bang web interface :-) | 04:59 | |
| SeRi | I am starting to become a Nokia freak | 04:59 |
| * SeRi is scared..... | 05:00 | |
| jpt9 | we're all nokia freaks here :-) | 05:00 |
| frob | not me | 05:00 |
| pupnik | jpt9: how about a keyboard that works with all linux apps, not just the hildonized ones? | 05:00 |
| jpt9 | what about one? | 05:00 |
| frob | I'm freaking out, actually | 05:00 |
| SeRi | lol^^^ | 05:00 |
| SeRi | why? | 05:00 |
| frob | because I need avahi | 05:00 |
| frob | and INdT ported it | 05:01 |
| pupnik | jpt9: i'd like to make one, but i don't know how i'd pull it up | 05:01 |
| SeRi | ahhh avahi deamon.... avahi satan.... same shit :P | 05:01 |
| jpt9 | pupnik: mind control :-) | 05:01 |
| pupnik | s/make/port | 05:01 |
| jpt9 | status bar icon! | 05:01 |
| jpt9 | what do you think? | 05:01 |
| pupnik | yeah that'd proly do it | 05:01 |
| jpt9 | wouldn't be able to use full screen, but it'd work. | 05:01 |
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| SeRi | heheheh iPhone keyboard on the N800 | 05:02 |
| SeRi | not bad | 05:02 |
| SeRi | Loks ok | 05:03 |
| SeRi | looks* | 05:03 |
| pupnik | links2 rules! | 05:03 |
| jpt9 | yeah. | 05:03 |
| disq | i couldn't get it to run (the indt keyboard) | 05:06 |
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| jpt9 | pupnik: how about messagease <exideas.com> or edgewrite <http://depts.washington.edu/ewrite/>? | 05:06 |
| Ginman | anyone know of a good image viewer? | 05:06 |
| SeRi | Mirage | 05:06 |
| fro1 | on top of it, my connection just dies | 05:06 |
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| SeRi | Mirage is what I use it can even resize :) | 05:07 |
| fro1 | did I miss anything ? | 05:07 |
| jpt9 | yes. | 05:07 |
| SeRi | alot! | 05:07 |
| Ginman | is there a way in mirage to load a folder and scroll through it? | 05:07 |
| jpt9 | nokia released the n75. | 05:07 |
| jpt9 | sorry, n785. | 05:07 |
| SeRi | Yes Ginman | 05:07 |
| jpt9 | the power of an n800 in the decent case of the n770. | 05:07 |
| fro1 | ha! | 05:07 |
| Ginman | how so, SeRi? | 05:08 |
| pupnik | jpt9 you mean http:/pupnik.de/pics ? | 05:08 |
| SeRi | You can load the folder within the application and scroll thu the pics | 05:08 |
| pupnik | .html | 05:08 |
| jpt9 | lol... | 05:08 |
| * jpt9 wants one. | 05:08 | |
| jpt9 | i feel sorry for all the n800 owners. when i'm on the T, I stick my charliecard in between the n770 and the case. | 05:09 |
| jpt9 | quite useful. | 05:09 |
| jpt9 | what's the bottom-most round thingy on the right? | 05:09 |
| SeRi | my nuts? | 05:09 |
| Ginman | it doesnt let me select a folder when i try to open something, SeRi | 05:09 |
| SeRi | JJ :P | 05:09 |
| pupnik | jpt9: a little camera | 05:10 |
| jpt9 | oh. | 05:10 |
| Ginman | oh shit, im a dumbass | 05:10 |
| SeRi | LOL | 05:10 |
| jpt9 | how about a gooseneck camera :-) | 05:10 |
| SeRi | You said it I didnt :) | 05:10 |
| pupnik | probably a pop-out camera that could rotate forward or back would be best | 05:10 |
| pupnik | let you use it as webcam or as a photo device | 05:10 |
| pupnik | notice that the dpad is larger, with a smaller enter button in the middle | 05:11 |
| Ginman | ok, last question, is there a way to change the view to be horizontal? | 05:12 |
| SeRi | Mhhhhhhhhhhh good question | 05:12 |
| Ginman | besides rotating all the pictures | 05:12 |
| SeRi | Not sure | 05:12 |
| pupnik | is that the slick image viewer with animated zoom? | 05:13 |
| SeRi | You can rotate, resize, scale, crop, etc... | 05:13 |
| jpt9 | what image viewer is this?! | 05:13 |
| Ginman | mirage | 05:13 |
| SeRi | Mirage | 05:13 |
| SeRi | Is what I been using :) | 05:13 |
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| Ginman | maybe there is some e-book reader that can do jpg and png and rotate the view? | 05:14 |
| zabin | Does anyone know how to get ssh on a nokia 770? | 05:14 |
| SeRi | apt-get install ssh | 05:14 |
| zabin | i dont have a way to get to apt-get do i? | 05:14 |
| SeRi | fro xterm with root privilages | 05:14 |
| SeRi | How do I know?!? did you installed it? | 05:15 |
| SeRi | You need osso-xterm | 05:15 |
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| SeRi | and becomeroot packege | 05:15 |
| Ginman | theres a tutorial somewhere on the site | 05:15 |
| zabin | SeRi: do you have a nokia 770? | 05:15 |
| zabin | when i go to install xterm it says im missing librarys | 05:16 |
| SeRi | Yes I have a 770 and a 800 | 05:16 |
| zabin | hildon-lsbs0 libfontconfig1 libfreetype6 libgconf2 libosso1 | 05:16 |
| SeRi | zbin http://maemo.org/downloads/product/osso-xterm-advanced | 05:17 |
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| SeRi | If you go to ITT I wrote a tutorial about this step by step | 05:17 |
| zabin | SeRi: i have to be logged in? | 05:18 |
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| SeRi | no | 05:18 |
| SeRi | just go to the 770 forum | 05:18 |
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| unique311 | hello all | 05:19 |
| SeRi | WAZ UP!!!!!!!!!!! | 05:19 |
| unique311 | different day, same shit.. | 05:19 |
| SeRi | I hear you! | 05:19 |
| unique311 | been hacking away at myspace code | 05:19 |
| SeRi | ahhhh nice nice.... | 05:19 |
| unique311 | http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=218115742 | 05:20 |
| unique311 | this looks good? | 05:20 |
| zabin | SeRi: where is this forum? | 05:20 |
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| SeRi | internettablettalk.com | 05:21 |
| SeRi | unique not bad | 05:21 |
| SeRi | but it has some wierd message everywhere! | 05:21 |
| SeRi | hahahaha | 05:21 |
| SeRi | ok I brb | 05:22 |
| pupnik | jpt9: http://penguinbait.com/links.gz | 05:22 |
| zabin | SeRi: whats the title of the article? | 05:22 |
| pupnik | hmm link dead? | 05:23 |
| jpt9 | gimme a sec.... | 05:23 |
| jpt9 | doesn't seem to be working, though... | 05:23 |
| jpt9 | nope. | 05:23 |
| unique311 | i link to his messed up .jpg | 05:24 |
| jpt9 | can't connect to penguinbait.com | 05:24 |
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| SeRi | any new apps out there? | 05:25 |
| SeRi | anything interesting? | 05:25 |
| pupnik | ok then i'll host it jpt9 gimme a minute | 05:25 |
| jpt9 | okay. thanks. | 05:25 |
| unique311 | ukmp | 05:25 |
| unique311 | well not new | 05:26 |
| zabin | SeRi: do you think you could send me a link to that article i couldnt find it on the 770 forum | 05:26 |
| unique311 | update posted..but i might be late on the find | 05:26 |
| SeRi | is a sticky! | 05:26 |
| SeRi | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3776 | 05:26 |
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| fro1 | argh | 05:32 |
| fro1 | sometimes I have uninstallable packages, but wgetting them from repo.maemo.org and dpkg -installing works | 05:32 |
| fro1 | and my sources.list is clean | 05:32 |
| fro1 | and I have updated | 05:32 |
| fro1 | wtf | 05:33 |
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| pupnik | jpt9 links2 maemo for N770 / 800 is here http://pupnik.de/links2_armel_bin.tgz | 05:36 |
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| Ginman | what is links2? | 06:00 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that links2 is awesome. | 06:00 |
| pupnik | hehe | 06:00 |
| disq | nice | 06:01 |
| pupnik | _Monkey forget links2 | 06:01 |
| _Monkey | pupnik: I forgot links2 | 06:01 |
| pupnik | _Monkey links2 is a lightweight graphical web browser (non-hildon) http://pupnik.de/links2.html | 06:01 |
| _Monkey | OK, pupnik. | 06:01 |
| disq | what is kagu? | 06:03 |
| _Monkey | kagu is a complete rewrite of ukmp with a strong focus on object oriented design and a2dp support. You can find it here: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu | 06:03 |
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| pupnik | neeeeaaarwwooow BOOM! crash... | 06:19 |
| disq | k, night | 06:21 |
| pupnik | cu disq | 06:23 |
| fro1 | argh | 06:29 |
| fro1 | even the glib2 version in bora is *ancient* | 06:29 |
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| derf | They're only 6 releases behind. | 06:34 |
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| derf | I mean, really, what's 3 years among friends? | 06:36 |
| Agogo | guys,how do i increase my internal memory? not including sd cards...for n800 | 06:37 |
| SeRi | funny links2 is allready compile by sombody else | 06:40 |
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| SeRi | waz up agogo | 06:45 |
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| wahez | I get GPG errors (BADSIG) when I try to update my N800. I just got my N800 and I didn't add any repositories. Is there something wrong with the repositories? | 06:46 |
| Ginman | is there a port of vent available for the 770? because that would just be awesome | 06:48 |
| SeRi | vent? | 06:50 |
| SeRi | Fick I just change my hostname in my tablet and everything went to shit | 06:50 |
| SeRi | fuck* | 06:50 |
| SeRi | ventrillio? | 06:51 |
| SeRi | waz up with my n800 | 06:52 |
| SeRi | is acting stupid | 06:52 |
| Ginman | yeah, ventrilo | 06:52 |
| SeRi | nope no port as of yet | 06:53 |
| derf | Yeah, don't change the hostname. | 06:53 |
| Ginman | man, someone should get to work on that | 06:54 |
| derf | I bricked the thing 3 or 4 times before I convinced myself that really wasn't a good idea. | 06:54 |
| pupnik | SeRi: got a link to it? | 06:54 |
| SeRi | to what? | 06:55 |
| pupnik | links2 | 06:55 |
| SeRi | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=62745#post62745 | 06:55 |
| pupnik | yeah penguinbait's links to it were dead | 06:56 |
| SeRi | well those are alive | 06:56 |
| SeRi | fuck and I dont remember my hostname | 06:57 |
| SeRi | now this sucks big donkey ass balls! | 06:57 |
| SeRi | well ill be damn I remember | 06:58 |
| SeRi | Mhhh I think I know why we can not change the host name | 06:58 |
| pupnik | woot xkbd! | 06:59 |
| SeRi | Nice! I have a project | 06:59 |
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| SeRi | Yeap is also in ITT | 06:59 |
| SeRi | some body has a script for it | 06:59 |
| SeRi | wow I think I did hose my N800 | 07:02 |
| pupnik | wow 856 posts SeRi :) | 07:04 |
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| SeRi | TYea :) | 07:11 |
| SeRi | Yea* | 07:11 |
| SeRi | :) | 07:11 |
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| pupnik | greets zodttd | 07:14 |
| zodttd | hi :) | 07:14 |
| pupnik | SeRi: do you see how to add that on/off XKBD with load-applet-run? | 07:15 |
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| zodttd | I finally get some games running really well with psx4gp2x, and now I'm starting to lose support from gp32x it seems. Today build got a lot of complaints, yet Abe's Oddysee is running so well. :( | 07:15 |
| zodttd | (plus just about everything else, I changed the image handler for ISO type support) | 07:16 |
| SeRi | Yes | 07:16 |
| SeRi | Is a script you need load applet run only works for N770 | 07:17 |
| * pupnik has an original oddworld psx cd - never played | 07:17 | |
| zodttd | Heh I have it somewhere too, all dirty and covered with dust :P | 07:17 |
| pupnik | SeRi: on it2007he installing load-appliet run generates conflict "trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/hildon-status-bar/libload.so', which is also in package load-applet" | 07:18 |
| SeRi | I know they havent port it the bastard to OS2007 :) | 07:19 |
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| pupnik | zodttd: so i just dd the cdrom to .iso and play that? | 07:20 |
| pupnik | SeRi: the xkbd runs on top of sdl fullscreen which is very useful | 07:21 |
| SeRi | yeap | 07:21 |
| zodttd | pupnik: It used to be just add an .iso. But since iso formats can differ, I switched to RAW .bin format and people are confused :P | 07:22 |
| zodttd | They basically just need to convert the .iso to .bin with IsoBuster and it will work, but lots of people have bad images or are just plain confused. :( | 07:23 |
| pupnik | ok i get it | 07:23 |
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| pupnik | SeRi: i'd be nice if that xkbd could be minimized to a small square at the edge of screen | 07:25 |
| SeRi | ahhhh hildonized | 07:25 |
| pupnik | or if you could toggle it with a selection in the home button menu | 07:26 |
| pupnik | no it wouldn't need to be hildonized | 07:26 |
| pupnik | just make a 'minimize' button to the right of the ctrl button | 07:26 |
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| pupnik | and when you click on the minized window it goes to fullsize | 07:26 |
| SeRi | interesting | 07:27 |
| SeRi | you should post it in the actual thread | 07:27 |
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| pupnik | ij | 07:30 |
| pupnik | ok | 07:30 |
| raku2 | I had a question about creating fat32 partitions on an MMC card for my 770 | 07:30 |
| raku2 | does anyone know the partition type to pass to sfdisk? | 07:30 |
| pupnik | "mount" tells me /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat | 07:31 |
| SeRi | yeap is vfat but to fdisk you do | 07:31 |
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| SeRi | sfdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk0 | 07:32 |
| SeRi | ,1500,6 | 07:32 |
| SeRi | ,,L | 07:32 |
| SeRi | ,, | 07:32 |
| SeRi | ,, | 07:32 |
| SeRi | 1500 is the size | 07:32 |
| SeRi | in MB | 07:32 |
| raku2 | yeah, I know I can make it vfat (type 6) but I want to make it fat32, because of the cluster size thing | 07:33 |
| SeRi | 6 is for vfat | 07:33 |
| SeRi | are you going to dual boot? | 07:33 |
| raku2 | was hoping to boot from a 2nd partition (ext2) | 07:34 |
| SeRi | well | 07:35 |
| raku2 | i wanted to make it fat32 because I plan on having a bunch of map tiles, each of which is a small file. | 07:35 |
| raku2 | and with vfat, the cluster size is 4K i think... | 07:36 |
| raku2 | (on a 1.5GB partition) | 07:36 |
| SeRi | give me a sec wife | 07:37 |
| raku2 | np. | 07:40 |
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| raku2 | Yeah man, specifying the '-uM' option is awesome. Much easier to work in MiB than cylinders. Also makes the lines shorter and not wrap on the 770 display. | 07:41 |
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| SeRi | yeap.... sorry wife is talking to me.... | 07:44 |
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| SeRi | ok back... | 07:53 |
| raku2 | no worries. After some research, I'm not sure i'm going to bother. | 07:53 |
| raku2 | I thought there might be some benefits of Fat32, but I think those were incorrect assumptions | 07:54 |
| SeRi | any ways in fat32 you use 32 | 07:55 |
| raku2 | for the partition type? | 07:55 |
| SeRi | I was going to ask you if you wjee sure | 07:55 |
| SeRi | where | 07:55 |
| SeRi | it actually kills your cards life span | 07:56 |
| raku2 | why? | 07:56 |
| raku2 | And from my searching, the type I came up with was '0b' | 07:57 |
| SeRi | to what I understands the reads and writes are more intensive... are sd cards life cicles are determin on how many r/w | 07:57 |
| SeRi | well could be I never got in to it to be 100% sure | 07:58 |
| SeRi | again thats not my area of expertise that would be penguinbait | 07:58 |
| ptrktn | would anybody know for sure if the mediaplayer inthe new n800 firmware supports multibyte chars? | 08:01 |
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| raku2 | cool. No worries. Thanks for your help. sfdisk is definitely easier (especially to document) with -uM | 08:04 |
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| inz | I read on a newspaper that a 770 appears in Die Hard 4.0, does anyone know of this? | 09:36 |
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| kosola | inz: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7050 | 09:40 |
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| giga | Reed Richards uses a N770 in silver surfer | 10:26 |
| *** giga is now known as Gigabites | 10:26 | |
| timeless | yeah, i have a printed picture of that outside my office | 10:26 |
| timeless | still need to see the movie | 10:26 |
| timeless | fwiw, it's the Nokia 770. Nokia marketting droids added the n for the N800 | 10:27 |
| Gigabites | bah so what | 10:27 |
| Gigabites | it's still not as cool or know as their other N series | 10:28 |
| Gigabites | known | 10:28 |
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| tigert | konttori: whoa | 10:41 |
| konttori | morning | 10:41 |
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| konttori | tigert: Good to see you again. | 10:41 |
| tigert | yeah | 10:41 |
| tigert | still on vacation for 2 weeks | 10:41 |
| konttori | ahh... good for you! | 10:41 |
| tigert | yeah | 10:41 |
| tigert | was in guadec meanwhile | 10:41 |
| konttori | planning of doing any flying while on vacation? | 10:42 |
| tigert | installing ukmp :) | 10:42 |
| tigert | konttori: perhaps. want to come along? | 10:42 |
| tigert | weather permitting of course | 10:42 |
| konttori | Sounds great! Would be honored. | 10:42 |
| tigert | wtf is _Monkey? | 10:42 |
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| tigert | I dont like these automatic privmsg's if I say "weather" | 10:43 |
| Jaffa | Morning all | 10:43 |
| tigert | morn | 10:43 |
| tigert | weather EFHF | 10:43 |
| pello | ih, anyone have a nokia n800 patched with the last firmware and have a ver very instability connection with FON ap ? | 10:43 |
| tigert | pello: is the ap far? | 10:44 |
| pello | 50cm | 10:44 |
| tigert | go a bit farther? | 10:44 |
| pello | it works really good before the firmware upgrade | 10:44 |
| pello | it doesn't works better | 10:46 |
| pello | gtalk can't sync | 10:46 |
| tigert | do other access points work ok? | 10:47 |
| * tigert wonders if fon uses some specific auth scheme that causes problems? | 10:47 | |
| tigert | file a bug in any case? | 10:47 |
| pello | hah don't worry it finally works | 10:48 |
| * pello waked up ten minutes ago | 10:49 | |
| konttori | tigert: We were talking yesterday with Roope about the kinetic scrolling and he was telling that you and him have been pushing it for the device (and browser) for some time now. | 10:49 |
| * pello slaps himself | 10:49 | |
| tigert | pello: :) | 10:49 |
| tigert | what was the problem? | 10:49 |
| konttori | I hope you will get it to be implemented to the browser asap | 10:49 |
| pello | i forgot that i was connected on the public ssid | 10:49 |
| tigert | konttori: yeah, it makes a lot of sense. of course there is an issue with how the interaction currently works with lists | 10:49 |
| tigert | pello: :) | 10:49 |
| pello | and have forget to authenticate me on fon portal | 10:49 |
| tigert | konttori: particularly it becomes very complex with multiple selections etc | 10:50 |
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| konttori | tigert: Well, how about just put the list selection as modal if user clicks on a list | 10:50 |
| tigert | konttori: ie, lots of timing tuneups etc to make it work sensibly | 10:50 |
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| tigert | konttori: what do you mean? | 10:50 |
| timeless | kontorri: i'm confused | 10:51 |
| konttori | put the select list widget to force scroll lock on, put the select list to go to the roughly the middle of the screen and only allow the user to escape by clicking outside the select box or by selecting an item | 10:51 |
| timeless | the browser is open sources | 10:51 |
| timeless | s/s$/d/ | 10:52 |
| timeless | but engineering effort is most certainly not assigned to whatever whims externals have | 10:52 |
| timeless | mostly it's constrained to performance | 10:52 |
| timeless | how can you expect anything to happen ASAP | 10:52 |
| tigert | timeless: your attitude helps little, please | 10:52 |
| tigert | we try to fix things inside too | 10:52 |
| timeless | and how can talking to roope (a ui designer) have any influence? | 10:52 |
| tigert | lets not get into this now | 10:52 |
| * timelyx shrugs | 10:54 | |
| timelyx | it's bad enough having actual managers making unreasonable demands | 10:54 |
| timelyx | and we have more than enough of them | 10:54 |
| timelyx | konttori: have you played with firefox/seamonkey's autoscroll? | 10:55 |
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| timelyx | would its scrolling behavior be relatively sufficient for your needs? | 10:55 |
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| timelyx | if so, adapting that to the browser would be considerably easier than trying to implement something else | 10:55 |
| timelyx | and it's probably something you yourself could do | 10:55 |
| tigert | xan had something implemented in the gtk scroll widget | 10:56 |
| tigert | it worked reasonably well too | 10:56 |
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| timelyx | interesting | 10:56 |
| tigert | but the problem is to make it work really well and nicely on all cases | 10:56 |
| timelyx | too bad the code isn't sharable :) | 10:56 |
| tigert | it might well be | 10:56 |
| timelyx | btw, what do you guys expect to have happen for google maps? | 10:56 |
| konttori | timelyx: never. Is it good? | 10:56 |
| tigert | dunno where it is, but it was not finished and polished anyway | 10:56 |
| timelyx | or google spreadsheets? | 10:56 |
| timelyx | konttori: please play with it | 10:56 |
| konttori | where can I test it out? | 10:57 |
| timelyx | tigert: gtk code isn't sharable to a gecko renderer | 10:57 |
| tigert | what I want to avoid is cases like the mozilla browser, with nice stuff, but a LOT of small interaction issues here and there | 10:57 |
| timelyx | konttori: it's mostly just part of seamonkey, not really sure how it works in firefox | 10:57 |
| timelyx | just trigger middle mouse | 10:57 |
| tigert | things need to be polished and consistent | 10:57 |
| * timelyx nods | 10:57 | |
| timelyx | personally i don't want to spend time implementing any *more* things that break google web apps | 10:58 |
| timelyx | and i don't want to be more inconsistent with the rest of the maemo platform | 10:58 |
| timelyx | we already have both of those | 10:58 |
| timelyx | (even from before gecko) | 10:58 |
| timelyx | i think you're basically saying you don't like panning | 10:58 |
| timelyx | which is good, because i don't like it either | 10:58 |
| timelyx | however, i suspect your replacement breaks google maps and friends at least as badly | 10:58 |
| tigert | no no | 10:58 |
| timelyx | which doesn't help me | 10:58 |
| tigert | I like panning | 10:58 |
| timelyx | ypu = konttori | 10:59 |
| tigert | ah :) | 10:59 |
| timelyx | anyway, somewhere i have a doc that lists all the input modes for browsers | 10:59 |
| timelyx | it's something like 10 | 10:59 |
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| timelyx | http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhmd4jxt_43htq827 | 11:00 |
| timelyx | ignore the picture at the bottom, i use google docs as a pastebin :) | 11:01 |
| bokubob | Has anyone here used pidgin with a yahoo japan account? | 11:01 |
| konttori | I like panning as well, but I would love it to be accelerated based on speed of movement of the finger. And kinetic scrolling does that quite well. | 11:01 |
| timelyx | the problem is that each different feature from either a desktop browser or a previous internet tablet becomes something users expect to be able to use | 11:01 |
| timelyx | konttori: do you have a problem with speed based on tapping on a scrollbar and how far you are from the thumb? | 11:02 |
| timelyx | anything that involves touching the content area of a web browser is a disaster | 11:03 |
| tigert | timelyx: yeah, that is what I mean with the complexity | 11:03 |
| timelyx | and i really really don't need more of them | 11:03 |
| timelyx | it's bad enough that i have the 9 or so i've listed | 11:03 |
| tigert | timelyx: and it is a disaster if things are not well thought out - which takes time and also effort from coders to get everything right | 11:03 |
| timelyx | tigert: yep | 11:03 |
| tigert | "almost right" is not enough | 11:03 |
| timelyx | like all the flubs from 770 | 11:03 |
| tigert | which takes lots of co-operated effort | 11:03 |
| timelyx | the password manager is another good example | 11:03 |
| tigert | well, there are lots of good examples :) | 11:04 |
| konttori | True enough. But as there is already the scrolling by dragging finger (panning), it would ge no worse by adding it to be kinetic. | 11:04 |
| timelyx | we managed to break opera's password manager ... | 11:04 |
| timelyx | konttori: um | 11:04 |
| timelyx | any change can be worse | 11:04 |
| timelyx | it's engineering time, and time to add new bugs | 11:04 |
| tigert | its hard to say without testing | 11:04 |
| timelyx | and new interaction conflicts | 11:04 |
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| tigert | yeah | 11:04 |
| timelyx | and it's time lost from doing whatever else | 11:04 |
| timelyx | note: i'm not always opposed to adding features | 11:04 |
| timelyx | however, i have more than enough headaches at the moment | 11:04 |
| timelyx | and input modality, while something i want to fix, is not something i need more complexity in before i fix it | 11:05 |
| konttori | You know, at the moment it scrolls only by the amount you pand with your finger. With kinetic it would scroll that much AND if speed given at the end of scroll, by the amount of speed versus drag (as in the opposing force) | 11:05 |
| timelyx | personally, i think panning was stupid | 11:05 |
| timelyx | and regret not having been able to squash the proposal before the 770 shipped | 11:05 |
| timelyx | but i didn't work for Nokia then | 11:06 |
| timelyx | it's stupid partly for the reasons you describe it as inferior | 11:06 |
| timelyx | partly because it wasn't implemented globally for the whole system (a tigert point i believe) | 11:06 |
| konttori | I think that the most convenient way of scrolling is by using the dpad middle button for page down, but that's just me. | 11:06 |
| timelyx | and partly because it was guaranteed to eventually break web apps (my point) | 11:06 |
| timelyx | yeah, that's the biggest reason that panning made absolutely no sense | 11:07 |
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| tigert | timelyx: panning is awesome, but it should be everywhere | 11:07 |
| tigert | and this makes other restrictions then | 11:07 |
| tigert | its all a game of tradeoffs and which are most important | 11:07 |
| timelyx | "ooh, i can use my finger to scroll, even though there's a perfectly good arrow available" | 11:07 |
| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:07 |
| tigert | like, do we really need multiple selection everywhere? | 11:07 |
| konttori | what arrow? | 11:07 |
| tigert | timelyx: the arrow sucks | 11:07 |
| timelyx | konttori: the "dpad", hardware keys | 11:07 |
| tigert | timelyx: I use panning all the time | 11:08 |
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| konttori | ahh... but then dpad should be configured for page up page down events. | 11:08 |
| tigert | its hard to say what is important unless you test with a small sample of users and see what really works | 11:08 |
| timelyx | tigert: do we have pressure sensing for the hardware arrows? | 11:08 |
| konttori | currently it's so slow to use that there's no point in using it | 11:08 |
| timelyx | i know we have something for home/escape | 11:08 |
| tigert | timelyx: pressure sensing? | 11:08 |
| timelyx | konttori: i suspect we could get pagedown for "long press" | 11:08 |
| timelyx | not quite sure it'd do the right thing, it'd definitely have to be tuned | 11:09 |
| konttori | but then it would easily scroll too much. | 11:09 |
| tigert | its all about finding a sensible set, that works for 90% of cases | 11:09 |
| tigert | tuning it correctly | 11:09 |
| konttori | indeed. | 11:09 |
| tigert | and sorry, forgetting about the 10% that would be another 100% of more work | 11:09 |
| timelyx | 5% would be 100% more work, the last 5% will be another 200% at least | 11:10 |
| tigert | since complexity = more code = more bugs to fix = harder interactions and just more complex experience | 11:10 |
| *** user__ has joined #maemo | 11:10 | |
| tigert | but lets see | 11:10 |
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| timelyx | konttori: personally, i'd rather implement something like the n95 | 11:10 |
| tigert | I am on vacation still :) | 11:10 |
| timelyx | where you got a popup small preview of the document | 11:10 |
| timelyx | and you can drag around that | 11:10 |
| timelyx | are you familiar w/ googlemap's small map insert? | 11:11 |
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| timelyx | iirc it's hidden on the n800 by default | 11:11 |
| timelyx | anyway, try it on a desktop | 11:11 |
| bokubob | Two finger scrolling? | 11:11 |
| konttori | timelyx: That is only a suplementary scrolling method. You would need normal panning / scrolling anyway | 11:12 |
| timelyx | it lets you drag around the section of the whole that you want to see | 11:12 |
| konttori | bokubob: n800 doesn't detect two fingers. | 11:12 |
| timelyx | konttori: i can't afford anything that interacts with interacting with the full web screen | 11:12 |
| bokubob | Ok, thanks. | 11:12 |
| konttori | how about letting the panning happen only when the dpad middle is pressed? | 11:13 |
| konttori | or would that be too difficult for people? | 11:13 |
| timelyx | i'd love too, but the button is used to open the fkb, select items, focus items, and trigger links | 11:13 |
| timelyx | i blame nokia for not at least having as few buttons as the gameboy | 11:13 |
| timelyx | a,b,select,start. hello 1988 | 11:13 |
| timelyx | i think probably it'd be triggered by a long press on one of the other directional arrows | 11:14 |
| timelyx | (especially if i can kill spatial navigation) | 11:14 |
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| timelyx | probably it'll be something like <left> triggers an overview | 11:15 |
| timelyx | <right> triggers a focus | 11:15 |
| timelyx | <top> unfocuses | 11:15 |
| tigert | konttori: several approaches probably would work | 11:16 |
| konttori | I fail to see the point of an overview in a device with 800x480 screen | 11:16 |
| konttori | but that's just me | 11:16 |
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| timelyx | konttori: ever use planets | 11:16 |
| tigert | but its a matter of testing and also trying to find one that people find | 11:16 |
| timelyx | well, planets small enough *not* to crash the browser... | 11:16 |
| tigert | timelyx: overview is not really needed if scrolling works nicely | 11:16 |
| tigert | damn | 11:16 |
| tigert | now the mozilla is crashing all the time on my n800 | 11:16 |
| tigert | I think its the fricken youtube videos :) | 11:17 |
| timelyx | http://tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/intro-linux.html | 11:17 |
| tigert | since it also crashes on urho's blog page directly | 11:17 |
| timelyx | tigert: can you make that page work well? | 11:17 |
| tigert | timelyx: well. that page is a lot of scrolling also on desktop | 11:17 |
| konttori | Just disable the flash plugin ;) | 11:18 |
| konttori | Hey, did you guys have a look at how archos handles flash movies? | 11:18 |
| timelyx | tigert: yes, i know | 11:18 |
| timelyx | the point is that (or something kinda smaller) is the problem for overview | 11:18 |
| timelyx | find the picture which has arrows that are not contained inside the lines | 11:19 |
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| timelyx | or better, find the hamster wheel | 11:19 |
| timelyx | konttori: when you use acceleration, or constant scrolling | 11:20 |
| timelyx | what are you actually doing? | 11:20 |
| timelyx | reading? | 11:20 |
| timelyx | and how fast can you read? and does it depend on the kind of content? | 11:20 |
| timelyx | from my perspective, the biggest problem the browser has is that people had problems, and came up with ideas, but they didn't explain the problem they were trying to solve | 11:21 |
| timelyx | which makes it very hard to offer an alternate solution | 11:21 |
| konttori | No, accelerated scrolling is only a means of moving large portion of the page on one go. | 11:21 |
| timelyx | ok, so clearly, for that problem, it'd be fine to use an overview | 11:21 |
| konttori | Like move to the top of the page after reading the article. | 11:21 |
| * timelyx waits | 11:22 | |
| konttori | well, overview moves you completely away from the page. And it needs the whole page to be rendered completely. | 11:22 |
| timelyx | um | 11:22 |
| timelyx | gecko has to render the whole page anyway | 11:22 |
| konttori | ahh... | 11:22 |
| timelyx | and i don't know whatyou mean by away | 11:22 |
| tigert | timelyx: yeah, this "we want this ui, and here's why" is what needs to improve | 11:23 |
| timelyx | gecko is fully capable of painting it w/ alpha over the content you see | 11:23 |
| tigert | timelyx: but it also needs co-operation from you guys | 11:23 |
| timelyx | tigert: i'll pay people to explain their reasons | 11:23 |
| tigert | it is very important | 11:23 |
| tigert | but it is also very important to listen when someone does | 11:23 |
| _Monkey | okay, tigert. | 11:23 |
| timelyx | konttori: got a paypal account? i'll give you 1usd from tomorrow's birthday money as a reward for explaining why you wanted acceleration | 11:23 |
| tigert | so it doesnt end up as insane bicycle shed issue | 11:24 |
| timelyx | someday someone will have to explain bike shed to me | 11:24 |
| tigert | _Monkey: can you make the privmsgs optional? | 11:24 |
| _Monkey | tigert: i don't know | 11:24 |
| tigert | sigh | 11:24 |
| timelyx | _Monkey: help | 11:24 |
| tigert | why do we have a bot here anyway? | 11:24 |
| timelyx | to annoy us? :) | 11:24 |
| konttori | timelyx: Acceleration is a nice way of navigating around the content of the page. really hate the fat that I have to keep pushing the pan again and again when I try to move to the top of the page or to the interesting part of an article. | 11:25 |
| konttori | I'm not saying that it's the only way, it just happens to be a very cool looking way of approaching the problem | 11:25 |
| tigert | timelyx: its also, just like coding more takes time, explaining does that also | 11:26 |
| konttori | Acceleration is a minor modification the current panning that improves the functionality of the current pan. | 11:26 |
| timelyx | konttori: tigert / my point here is that it's important that everyone know what the underlying problem is | 11:26 |
| tigert | so its not something people have the time to do a lot | 11:26 |
| tigert | but I agree sharing the knowledge is important | 11:26 |
| timelyx | konttori: here, my premise is that i want to remove panning | 11:27 |
| timelyx | it breaks more and more sites | 11:27 |
| timelyx | consider docs.google.com | 11:27 |
| timelyx | 90% of the page is both scrollable and dragable | 11:27 |
| konttori | Yeah, and if that is the case with nokia, then it's just fine by me. But if panning is there, then it would benefit from kinetic. | 11:27 |
| timelyx | note: i'm almost never going to speak for nokia | 11:27 |
| timelyx | and it's fairly safe to assume i'll never speak for nokia here | 11:28 |
| tigert | lets just say the issue is complex | 11:28 |
| timelyx | {standard-disclaimer-i-speak-for-myself-or-no-one} | 11:28 |
| konttori | But if panning is removed, then the arrow keys need to be modified by default for page up / page down kind of behaviour. | 11:28 |
| tigert | and ajax sites are just one part of this | 11:28 |
| konttori | Or the scoll bar needs to take 3 times more width so that it would be usable by thumb as well. | 11:28 |
| timelyx | konttori: basically, given the fact that panning causes a lot of pain and is something i'd rather remove instead of improve, the last thing i want to do is modify its impl | 11:28 |
| tigert | it also doesnt help that google documents is very cpu hog | 11:28 |
| timelyx | tigert: wfm on my 1.6ghz mac :) | 11:29 |
| timelyx | are you using a computer from 1997? :) | 11:29 |
| timelyx | oh, you probably are.. | 11:29 |
| timelyx | konttori: but yes, changing the scrollbar size seems to me to be something we should seriously consider | 11:30 |
| timelyx | although, from internal bits, i think they might change the scrollbar to be totally different | 11:30 |
| tigert | one from 2006 with an ARM | 11:30 |
| timelyx | not sure | 11:30 |
| konttori | yeah, but if you do that, then you need to drop off the left side navi bar completely. | 11:30 |
| timelyx | tigert: class equivalence of 1997 | 11:30 |
| tigert | but it is slow even on my laptop | 11:31 |
| konttori | Because when you do that, scroll bar will take about as much space as the left navi bar and there's like no space left for the app. | 11:31 |
| timelyx | given i had a p2/450 in 1998 | 11:31 |
| konttori | and if you widen the scroll bar in one place, it'll have to be widened every other place as well. | 11:31 |
| timelyx | konttori: i take it you don't use browser full screen | 11:31 |
| tigert | konttori: and that leads to a need to redesign a lot of applications | 11:31 |
| konttori | I do, but that's not the only way to use it. | 11:31 |
| timelyx | i think it'd probably be more like only the active frame gets a scroller | 11:31 |
| konttori | tigert: yeah. | 11:31 |
| tigert | like, all the two-pane layouts are bye-bye then | 11:31 |
| tigert | which then kicks schedules in the arse etc | 11:32 |
| konttori | And as opposed to implement panning everywhene, you end up with freeing the space for the scroll bar altogether. | 11:32 |
| tigert | its a fscking snowball | 11:32 |
| tigert | and we all know it | 11:32 |
| konttori | You might instead have a trasparent notificator of the location. | 11:32 |
| timelyx | tigert: don't forget the people who want portrait mode :) | 11:32 |
| tigert | lets just say portrait mode is not exactly my top priority at this point :) | 11:32 |
| timelyx | konttori: scrolling an overview is something that could be implemented everywhere :) | 11:32 |
| konttori | timelyx: indeed. And in that implementation the scrollbar would take even more space. | 11:32 |
| konttori | I mean in the portrait mode. | 11:33 |
| tigert | but this kind of rethinking takes a big effort | 11:33 |
| konttori | timelyx: you must be kidding | 11:33 |
| timelyx | thanks for clarifying/qualifying | 11:33 |
| timelyx | konttori: why? | 11:33 |
| timelyx | if you have 10,000 emails | 11:33 |
| timelyx | or if you have 10,000 pictures | 11:33 |
| timelyx | would you really object to an overview for them? | 11:34 |
| konttori | And in your 10 000 emails, how do you actually know where to scroll in that overview? | 11:34 |
| timelyx | in outlook, i jump by date region | 11:34 |
| timelyx | or header creature | 11:34 |
| konttori | panning is much better in that kind of application.. | 11:34 |
| timelyx | whichever is the current grouper | 11:34 |
| timelyx | in pictures w/ picasa, it's the same | 11:34 |
| timelyx | panning fails miserably in both cases | 11:35 |
| konttori | sounds like you are making quite a big change to all the apps in that manner of thinking. | 11:35 |
| roope | Hello. | 11:35 |
| timelyx | hi :) | 11:35 |
| konttori | I'm not opposed to special cases, but for general lists, there needs to be a general scolling method. | 11:35 |
| timelyx | out of curiosity, how many photos, mp3s, and emails do you have? | 11:36 |
| timelyx | (general survey, roope is welcome to answer too) | 11:36 |
| konttori | I have around 1000 mp3s, 2000 photos. | 11:36 |
| konttori | No emails, as the email app doesn't work | 11:36 |
| timelyx | you're free to answer emails for things outside your device | 11:36 |
| timelyx | same for the others :) | 11:36 |
| timelyx | i have 0 emails in the device, but i certainly have more than 100 outside :) | 11:36 |
| tigert | You are currently using 1112 MB (38%) of your 2880 MB. | 11:37 |
| tigert | Inbox (563) | 11:37 |
| tigert | (unread) :) | 11:37 |
| timelyx | You are currently using 2795 MB (97%) of your 2880 MB. | 11:37 |
| timelyx | in red text! | 11:37 |
| timelyx | darn | 11:37 |
| * timelyx hates the red text | 11:37 | |
| timelyx | that's the old/full mailbox | 11:38 |
| roope | Panning is great. | 11:38 |
| timelyx | the new one is using 19% | 11:38 |
| roope | (just reading the backlog :) | 11:38 |
| tigert | :) | 11:38 |
| timelyx | the new one is say 4months old | 11:38 |
| timelyx | anyway, how do you organize (or not) your pictures? | 11:39 |
| timelyx | and how do you find anything in them? | 11:39 |
| timelyx | also, have you tried scrolling in outlook for windows? | 11:39 |
| timelyx | when you start scrolling by dragging the thumb, it shows you a hint about what you're zooming past | 11:40 |
| timelyx | same is done iirc in word and excel | 11:40 |
| roope | about 10000 mp3:s on my computer. couple thousand photos. | 11:40 |
| timelyx | it might show you the current pagenumber or section or date/month category | 11:40 |
| timelyx | or a row/col in excel i suppose | 11:41 |
| * timelyx rarely uses excel | 11:41 | |
| timelyx | All messages in the Trash have been deleted forever. | 11:41 |
| timelyx | You are currently using 2783 MB (96%) of your 2880 MB. | 11:41 |
| timelyx | that didn't really help much | 11:41 |
| tigert | hehe | 11:41 |
| * timelyx tries deleting spam | 11:42 | |
| tigert | konttori: ukmp could show a spinner animation or progressbar when scanning memory card | 11:43 |
| tigert | now it looks like it is dead | 11:43 |
| tigert | since it takes quite a while | 11:43 |
| timelyx | You are currently using 2782 MB (96%) of your 2880 MB. | 11:43 |
| timelyx | ok, spam really doesn't count for much | 11:43 |
| timelyx | You are currently using 576 MB (20%) of your 2880 MB. | 11:44 |
| timelyx | hrm, so much for only using 19% :( | 11:44 |
| roope | For finding music, I don't ever scroll through a list of 10000 songs. I filter them down and then select. | 11:44 |
| timelyx | roope: and photos? | 11:44 |
| roope | Metadata. Select a right date or folder. | 11:45 |
| timelyx | hrm, next, do any of you use ebooks/pdfs? if so, how many do you have | 11:45 |
| timelyx | and how short are they? | 11:45 |
| * timelyx finds it hard to believe that scrolling is a problem for just browser | 11:45 | |
| timelyx | roope: what's the worst filter down case you have for songs? | 11:45 |
| konttori | tigert: true. I'll see to add something for the first go. | 11:46 |
| roope | Scrolling is a problem allover, but the current implementation of using these scrollbars is part of the problem. | 11:46 |
| tigert | konttori: another thing is, I dunno if is supposed to do it already, | 11:46 |
| roope | Well, I type a couple of letters and then select the song. Or search the artist and then the song. | 11:46 |
| tigert | but long press of "esc" key (back arrow) should quit apps | 11:46 |
| tigert | and I know this is not well documented anywhere I guess | 11:46 |
| tigert | or close windows, rather | 11:46 |
| tigert | wow | 11:46 |
| tigert | device rebooted | 11:46 |
| pello | damn, not my day, battery died while installing osso-xterm | 11:47 |
| timelyx | tigert: nice :) | 11:47 |
| roope | I'm using this Approcket app for windows, it's a bit like quicksilver. It's really easy to access nearly any song. | 11:47 |
| konttori | tigert: I'll add the esc. | 11:47 |
| roope | Just type a couple first letters and it comes up in the list. | 11:47 |
| konttori | It's been on my list for a while. | 11:47 |
| timelyx | roope: *nod* | 11:47 |
| timelyx | that's kinda what i expect | 11:47 |
| konttori | I use itunes, which is just great. | 11:47 |
| timelyx | one way to do that is w/ a pan/scroll where as you go letter changes in item titles are shown | 11:47 |
| timelyx | so if you're now in the "rock"et section | 11:47 |
| roope | Deep hierarchies imho just suck. It's faster to search. | 11:47 |
| timelyx | it shows that | 11:47 |
| roope | Than to go through many levels. | 11:48 |
| timelyx | and when you end up in "rythm" and blues, you see that | 11:48 |
| roope | timelyx: Yeah, those things are ok. Even my ipod starts to do that. | 11:48 |
| timelyx | sure you could do a type search, but if people like pannig (or something like it) | 11:48 |
| roope | If I scroll fast enough, it starts just showing the initial letter of where I'm scrolling. | 11:48 |
| timelyx | right | 11:48 |
| tigert | text input on the go is also harder | 11:48 |
| timelyx | that's what i'm thinking of when i talk about overview scrolling | 11:48 |
| timelyx | most good apps have such a model | 11:49 |
| timelyx | and people recognize it, even if they don't really remember it being there | 11:49 |
| timelyx | the browser doesn't have that | 11:49 |
| timelyx | the n95 browser does | 11:49 |
| roope | Yeah. Opera 4 mini for S60 is very nice. | 11:49 |
| roope | It goes overview - 100% view always. | 11:49 |
| tigert | also the webkit one does that I think | 11:49 |
| tigert | damn | 11:49 |
| konttori | well, e.g. itunes only just shows the entire content of your lib in one list with scrollbar. | 11:49 |
| tigert | now ukmp reboots my device | 11:50 |
| tigert | I wonder what happens | 11:50 |
| timelyx | wah. gmail delivered a phishing attempt for paypal | 11:50 |
| konttori | and that's the default behaviour of probably the most used mp3 app. | 11:50 |
| tigert | I am scp'ing songs over, could be that too | 11:50 |
| timelyx | tigert: webkit = n95 | 11:50 |
| konttori | tigert: try it in xterm | 11:50 |
| konttori | use MediaCenter command. | 11:50 |
| roope | Opera 4 mini has really nice details that add up to the experience. For instance when going to the next web page it doesn't clear up the previous one before the next one loads. I really hate looking at the blank screen in the s60 browser for 5-10 seconds for every page. | 11:50 |
| roope | It feels a lot faster than the s60 one also. | 11:51 |
| tigert | konttori: I'll copy the songs over first | 11:51 |
| timelyx | anyway, i really think implementing an overview is a lot more useful/important than most of the other options | 11:51 |
| timelyx | roope: will that run on my e61i? | 11:51 |
| * timelyx needs to get it... | 11:51 | |
| roope | timelyx: Yes. Just go to http://www.operamini.com/beta/ it's free for now. | 11:52 |
| roope | I have it on my e61. | 11:52 |
| roope | I still don't think that the overview and scroll/pan are somehow exclusionary things. You can have both. | 11:52 |
| roope | overview is a somewhat specific case for the browser. | 11:52 |
| roope | The scroll/pan is more of a general framework navigation style question. | 11:53 |
| roope | http://www.operamini.com/beta/demo/ | 11:53 |
| timelyx | roope: i'll grab it from work (after lunch) in 30mins i guess | 11:54 |
| roope | It's a shame s60 forces 3rd party apps to ask every time "is it all right for this application to connect to the internet". | 11:54 |
| tigert | hm | 11:55 |
| roope | timelyx: it's about the best browser I've used with my s60 so far. | 11:55 |
| tigert | does mplayer (and thus ukmp) play ogg? | 11:55 |
| timelyx | roope / tigert: what's the format for the FRHOC wifi pass? | 11:55 |
| tigert | FRHOC? | 11:55 |
| timelyx | if you don't recognize that, you can't help :) | 11:56 |
| roope | mine has 13 numbers. | 11:56 |
| timelyx | yes | 11:56 |
| timelyx | it's a function of your birthday and your id | 11:56 |
| timelyx | but getting the sequence right is beyond my ability to remember | 11:56 |
| wumpus | roope: that would imo be a great thing if all browsers did that, show the page when fully loaded, I loatha seeing pages being built up image by image paragraph by paragraph etc :) | 11:56 |
| wumpus | loathe* | 11:56 |
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| timelyx | i think it's something like day month decade id | 11:56 |
| roope | Well, I don't mind if the structure would remain stable. | 11:56 |
| roope | But of course it can't. | 11:56 |
| timelyx | wumpus: so... | 11:57 |
| timelyx | we have managers who complain that the browser looks unresponsive | 11:57 |
| roope | timelyx: looks like nokid id + 5 numbers of ddmmy | 11:57 |
| timelyx | if it doesn't paint /something/ | 11:57 |
| timelyx | roope: which order? | 11:57 |
| wumpus | well, true, if it would show a rectangle of the size of the images, but empty it woul dbe oke... but I hate the page changing while loading | 11:57 |
| roope | in that order. id first. | 11:57 |
| timelyx | ok, thanks | 11:57 |
| timelyx | oddly enough, some users have the same complaint | 11:57 |
| wumpus | I've always hated that in web browsing, compared to other interactive menus etc | 11:57 |
| timelyx | i.e. the managers aren't entirely out of their gourd | 11:57 |
| roope | The s60 browser is the worst. At first it shows the content, then it hides it, then it shows it again. | 11:58 |
| timelyx | wumpus: kinda stuck | 11:58 |
| roope | I wouldn't mind reading the text non-css-formatted. | 11:58 |
| wumpus | idd | 11:58 |
| timelyx | you don't know if the image will load until you've downloaded it | 11:58 |
| timelyx | it could be invalid at the last bite | 11:58 |
| timelyx | byte | 11:58 |
| timelyx | if it's invalid, you have to rotate to the fallback content | 11:58 |
| timelyx | and reflow | 11:58 |
| timelyx | no matter what /some/ operation *will* require changing layout | 11:58 |
| wumpus | no, you could just show the empty rectangle of the right size | 11:59 |
| timelyx | you can bet one way or the other | 11:59 |
| wumpus | with an 'invalid' icon | 11:59 |
| timelyx | sure, but if the image isn't valid | 11:59 |
| timelyx | then you must at that point change to the alternate text | 11:59 |
| timelyx | the placeholder goes away in standards mode | 11:59 |
| timelyx | it's a requirement of html | 11:59 |
| wumpus | but it could remain the same size | 11:59 |
| timelyx | no | 11:59 |
| timelyx | html spec doesn't allow that | 11:59 |
| timelyx | only quirks modes do | 11:59 |
| timelyx | sorry. i've been working on web browsers and quirks for many years | 11:59 |
| timelyx | and i love controversies | 12:00 |
| wumpus | I don't care about the html spec, it was just a gripe I've had with web browsing since the beginning | 12:00 |
| timelyx | and quirks, and such | 12:00 |
| wumpus | and I've been there since 1995 | 12:00 |
| timelyx | yeah, well... users, web authors, web browsers, and specifiers | 12:00 |
| timelyx | make 1 or maybe 2 happy | 12:00 |
| timelyx | pick | 12:00 |
| timelyx | or perhaps, try not to make more than 3 unhappy? | 12:00 |
| tigert | gotta love FAT and memory cards | 12:00 |
| tigert | [131204.512000] sdd: rw=0, want=3998720, limit=1999360 | 12:00 |
| tigert | [131204.512000] attempt to access beyond end of device | 12:00 |
| tigert | fsck | 12:00 |
| timeless | $ | 12:01 |
| timelyx | did fsck really have nothing to say? :) | 12:01 |
| * tigert wonders whats up with timeless and his two nicks | 12:01 | |
| wumpus | timelyx: anyhow, all the reflows while loading are inefficient as well, especially on an embedded device | 12:01 |
| timelyx | tigert: i have 3 actually | 12:02 |
| timelyx | timelyx is my mac, it has scrollback | 12:02 |
| timelyx | timelE61i is well, my phone | 12:02 |
| timelyx | timeless is me in a screen session, reachable from anywhere, limited scrollback | 12:02 |
| wumpus | It'd be a nightmare f some day I opened a newspaper and it'd be reflowing while I read it :') | 12:02 |
| timelyx | wumpus: it's coming! | 12:02 |
| timelyx | digital ink is getting better | 12:02 |
| wumpus | hehe I suppose | 12:02 |
| wumpus | so are broken standards coming to paper too, yay | 12:03 |
| timelyx | however, most likely the cpus will not be as slow as the ones we have | 12:03 |
| timelyx | and probably they'll be smarter | 12:03 |
| timelyx | and only render when they're done | 12:03 |
| wumpus | let's pray for that :) | 12:03 |
| timelyx | you don't see advertisements on billboards that incrementally renders | 12:03 |
| timelyx | advertisers pay for quality | 12:03 |
| wumpus | it's especially annoying on sites with large amount of images.. each time you try to read some text, it jumps down, while the image snaps in place | 12:04 |
| timelyx | would you like a Coca Cola sponsored n800i with that? | 12:04 |
| timelyx | disclaimer: i know of nothing relating to partnership deals with anyone | 12:05 |
| wumpus | I'd like a pepsi one better but thank you :D | 12:05 |
| timelyx | well, thank pepsi if they offer it :) | 12:05 |
| timelyx | seriously, most likely for a thing like paper, the key will be whether someone manages to sponsor enough cpu power w/ decent battery | 12:06 |
| wumpus | though I'd wonder if they'd sponsor the devices or the sites/network | 12:06 |
| timelyx | the alternative is to not actually send unrendered content | 12:06 |
| timelyx | if you send pictures to the newspaper along w/ a hitmap rule for what goes to new locations | 12:07 |
| timelyx | then the paper doesn't have problems | 12:07 |
| wumpus | or an intermediate format, which exactly specifies the position and size of each text block and image | 12:07 |
| timelyx | it's only a problem if your digital paper lets you draw circles on it, fill in surveys, ... | 12:07 |
| timelyx | yeah... | 12:07 |
| * tigert tries to get enough music on his device to see ukmp's panning :) | 12:07 | |
| timelyx | the paper could accept pdfs as input :) | 12:08 |
| timelyx | in fact, most digital ink devices do that as a primary source | 12:08 |
| timelyx | browser support is always secondary from what i've seen | 12:08 |
| wumpus | pdfs are great format for that indeed | 12:08 |
| wumpus | it might replace html some day :) | 12:08 |
| timelyx | hrm | 12:08 |
| timelyx | do you enable js in your acrobat reader? | 12:09 |
| konttori | tigert: easiest way is to make a e.g. party list of 100 songs in itunes and copy those to the device. | 12:09 |
| timelyx | it can have at least as many security bugs as a web browser | 12:09 |
| tigert | konttori: yeah | 12:09 |
| wumpus | well your browser would effectively be acrobat reader, in that case, so it's no longer a heavy plugin | 12:09 |
| tigert | I need more music :) | 12:09 |
| timelyx | heh | 12:09 |
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| tigert | need to "consult" roope after vacations I think | 12:10 |
| timelyx | hrm., konttori and roope specified how many songs they have | 12:10 |
| timelyx | tigert didn't | 12:10 |
| roope | me and marko could set up a nice mp*3 store somewhere | 12:10 |
| konttori | tigert: ukmp uses the gstreamer, so once you have the ogg plugin, oggs will work. | 12:10 |
| tigert | marius has some too but its a bit hm.. different taste :) | 12:11 |
| timelyx | arg | 12:11 |
| tigert | konttori: where to get that? | 12:11 |
| timelyx | that reminds me, i need to deal w/ gstreamer | 12:11 |
| timelyx | actually | 12:11 |
| timelyx | konttori: how well do you know gstreamer? | 12:11 |
| timelyx | i'm looking for someone i could pay to write a wrapper or mapping to gstreamer | 12:11 |
| timelyx | (out of my own pocket) | 12:11 |
| konttori | timelyx: I don't know it too well. Just enought to get by some annoying bugs. | 12:12 |
| konttori | Ogg plugin is here: | 12:13 |
| konttori | http://ogg.garage.maemo.org/ogg-support.install | 12:13 |
| timelyx | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=272132&action=view | 12:13 |
| timelyx | is the file i'm stuck trying to convert to gstreamer | 12:14 |
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| konttori | out of my league | 12:14 |
| timelyx | there are way too many repos | 12:14 |
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| wumpus | indeed, way too many | 12:16 |
| tigert | lets try | 12:16 |
| wumpus | up to the point that you wonder why they use repositories, if you have to add one for each package anyway :) | 12:17 |
| timelyx | heh | 12:17 |
| timelyx | the theoretical reason is upgrades | 12:17 |
| timelyx | in practice it's so that you can get version conflicts in the future :) | 12:17 |
| konttori | I'll have to add tag parsing for ogg files soon. So many open source people (like tigert) seem to have oggs. | 12:19 |
| konttori | current one just uses the folder name as album name. | 12:20 |
| timelyx | heh | 12:20 |
| tigert | konttori: ah | 12:24 |
| tigert | man, it crashed | 12:25 |
| * tigert runs from terminal | 12:25 | |
| tigert | heh | 12:25 |
| tigert | read-only fs | 12:25 |
| tigert | fun with FAT | 12:25 |
| tigert | but ukmp shouldnt crash on that :) | 12:26 |
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| timelyx | :) | 12:28 |
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| * timelyx grumbles | 12:29 | |
| timelyx | the next browser update would probably take a >1mb hit for certificate checks | 12:29 |
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| konttori | tigert: True. I'll have to add some code that will check the access level. | 12:41 |
| konttori | timelyx: really? | 12:42 |
| konttori | so, it will be checking the validity of the certificates and that code takes a meg? sweet. | 12:42 |
| timelyx | konttori: gcc sucks | 12:42 |
| timelyx | it's not anywhere near that simple | 12:42 |
| konttori | ahh... well. I guess it never is ;) | 12:42 |
| timelyx | today the browser checks the validity chain for certs it has | 12:42 |
| timelyx | or rather in the browser you have | 12:43 |
| konttori | ok, and in the future? | 12:43 |
| timelyx | the browser i could build today can download certificates it sees referenced but doesn't have | 12:43 |
| timelyx | from http, https, ldap | 12:43 |
| timelyx | your browser also assumes that a cert is only signed by one other cert | 12:43 |
| konttori | ahh... is that the normal behaviour for firefox? | 12:43 |
| timelyx | but certificates can be signed by multiple certificates... | 12:44 |
| timelyx | konttori: i'm a gecko developer first, a maemo browser engineer because i'm paid to do it | 12:44 |
| * konttori was just watching the opera mini 4 demo vid. | 12:44 | |
| konttori | nokia really needs to put good dpads to use that kind or scrolling around. | 12:45 |
| timelyx | note: windows Vista and to some extent windows XP (or rather IE and any app that uses the OS to do networking on those platforms) already does this stuff | 12:45 |
| timelyx | not going to happen :) | 12:45 |
| timelyx | have you seen the e61i thumb? | 12:45 |
| timelyx | it's awful | 12:45 |
| timelyx | and it's probably the future :) | 12:45 |
| konttori | Nope. I did test it quickly though. | 12:45 |
| konttori | really? | 12:45 |
| timelyx | well, my crystal ball is at least as foggy as yours | 12:45 |
| konttori | Does it have force sensitivity? | 12:45 |
| * timelyx chuckles | 12:46 | |
| timelyx | but nokia tries very hard to reuse components | 12:46 |
| konttori | I know. Still, even by modifying the dpad mold, it could be made better. | 12:46 |
| timelyx | i think an eraser head component would probably make more sense | 12:46 |
| timelyx | those have had pressure recognition for probably well over a decade | 12:46 |
| konttori | you mean like they have on laptops? | 12:46 |
| timelyx | yes | 12:46 |
| konttori | I think that could work pretty well. | 12:47 |
| timelyx | trackpoint i suppose might be a more technical term | 12:47 |
| konttori | I was kind of thinking 61 had that | 12:47 |
| timelyx | http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mobiletechreview.com/image/news/nokiae61i1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php%3FBoard%3Dnews%26Number%3D27922&h=350&w=305&sz=34&hl=en&start=2&sig2=OaT5zntW1m16IS_k8rvikg&um=1&tbnid=6BdpbSye9NpYLM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=105&ei=ORynRqO6N4LK0gSKxICVBg&prev=/images%3Fq%3De61i%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN | 12:47 |
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| konttori | that looks just as bad dpad as they have in n800. (only smaller) | 12:49 |
| konttori | I hope I'm wrong | 12:49 |
| konttori | Considering nintendo kind of perfected normal dpad in the early 80s with NES, nokia could have learned something of dpad design from that. | 12:50 |
| konttori | well.. I guess they did. Ngage rockers were in both editions pretty good. | 12:51 |
| timelyx | i think it's actually worse | 12:51 |
| timelyx | the button area is bigger | 12:51 |
| timelyx | and the right/left are positioned such that i tend to hit the adjacent buttons :) | 12:52 |
| konttori | the middle button. Yeah. seems like it. But that might be an illusion (if it's actually made from one plastic piece) | 12:52 |
| timelyx | no, i own both | 12:52 |
| konttori | shame. | 12:52 |
| timelyx | i just don't have either in front of me | 12:52 |
| konttori | I mean shame it doesn't work (not shame that you have 'em) | 12:53 |
| timelyx | my n800s are in my bag because i should be at work | 12:53 |
| dpb_ | timelyx: ugh, that long link you posted somehow highlighted me :D | 12:54 |
| AD-N770 | timelyx: Which is the problem that you have with gstreamer ? | 12:55 |
| timelyx | dpb_: heh | 12:57 |
| timelyx | AD-N770: i have code that uses liboggplay (?) and i need it converted to use gstreamer | 12:57 |
| timelyx | (in a modular way ...) | 12:57 |
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| AD-N770 | timelyx: just for palying ogg files in another app ? | 13:03 |
| AD-N770 | timelyx: on gstreamer is really easy write this kind of stuff, just at command line for example gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location= /media/mmc1/Music/On\ the\ Night/01\ -\ Calling\ Elvis.ogg ! oggdemux ! ivorbisdec ! dsppcmsink | 13:03 |
| timelyx | in another app, yes | 13:04 |
| timelyx | a gecko web browser to be more specifically | 13:04 |
| timelyx | which is receiving streaming content | 13:04 |
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| AD-N770 | timelyx: are you providing the buffering of the streamed content or could you delegate it to gstreamer ? | 13:05 |
| timelyx | providing | 13:07 |
| timelyx | i am the web browser | 13:07 |
| * dpb_ browses with timelyx | 13:07 | |
| timelyx | i have all sorts of non transferable auth tokens floating around | 13:07 |
| timelyx | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=272132&action=view | 13:07 |
| AD-N770 | timelyx: people on #gstreamer channel probably could help you better than me. But from my point of view you have a pair of options | 13:10 |
| maddler | morning all... | 13:10 |
| AD-N770 | 1) delegate to gstreamer the handling of the streamed content using gnomevfssrc, rtspsrc, mmssrc or whatever that will be apropiate, you can use palybin that will autoplug the required element depending on the src, mime and pluggins aviable | 13:13 |
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| pupnik | timelyx: you have a gstreamer ogg plugin? | 13:14 |
| AD-N770 | 2) create a src element that does the interaction with your internal buffering and use it with decodebin to create the decoding pipeline plus the sinks | 13:14 |
| pupnik | hmm | 13:14 |
| pupnik | ignore my question :) | 13:15 |
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| AD-N770 | timelyx: write a pluggin for gstreamer is really easy, I need only 4 days of work/reading tutorial to write my first one | 13:18 |
| timeless | plugin? | 13:18 |
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| AD-N770 | plugin, sorry my english isn't good as I would like | 13:19 |
| AD-N770 | for the tuner tool, I wrote a plugin that performs a FFT(uses kissFFT) on one second of audio data | 13:20 |
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| disq | morning (i really woke up this late) | 13:20 |
| AD-N770 | after find the peakl, fundamental frequency | 13:20 |
| AD-N770 | peak | 13:20 |
| AD-N770 | and send a msg to the app | 13:20 |
| AD-N770 | with that element I can build a pipeline like dsppcmsrc ! kissfft ! fakesink | 13:21 |
| AD-N770 | and all the sound captured by the mic is analysed | 13:22 |
| AD-N770 | on the app I'm running a second pipeline with audiotstsrc ! dsppcmsink for the piano keyboard to produce some notes | 13:23 |
| pupnik | yaay for timelyx! rihs buttons plz mompf kthx :) | 13:23 |
| timelyx | ? | 13:24 |
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| pupnik | heh better dpad and right hand side buttons are my personal holy grail | 13:30 |
| timeless | ah, yes, well, i don't have *any* influence over hardware | 13:30 |
| timeless | and from talking about it w/other people, it seems like virtually no one in the software group does | 13:30 |
| timeless | even after being here for a couple of years in some cases | 13:31 |
| timeless | i'm not saying that we really should make a gameboy, although i poke management about it perhaps twice a year :) | 13:31 |
| pupnik | i know it's not a priority | 13:31 |
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| pupnik | i can live with the onscreen buttons on the right hand side - been testing them with ur-quan masters now for two days | 13:32 |
| pupnik | but i really have problems with the dpad :( does anybody you meet recognize it as a problem? | 13:32 |
| timelyx | which problems do you have? :) | 13:32 |
| pupnik | moving left-right-up-down quickly is very difficult. | 13:32 |
| timelyx | fixing them doesn't seem to be a priority | 13:33 |
| pupnik | also the enter button is in the way | 13:33 |
| pupnik | ok | 13:33 |
| pupnik | if another company like gamepark holdings licensed the n800 or n900 (whatever) internals and designed a gaming case around it, that might be a possibility to sell units to the gaming/emu niche | 13:35 |
| pupnik | another possibility i am looking at is hand-building a case for a bluetooth gaming pad that fits around the n770 (just for me) | 13:35 |
| timelyx | problem is, the only company of any interest out there is nintendo | 13:36 |
| timelyx | and they know how to do ui design and hardware design better than we do. oh and marketting! | 13:36 |
| pupnik | yes, they sell many units- i read 100,000 last february or something | 13:36 |
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| timelyx | oh, and they've done a fairly good job of managing wifi and touchscreen and arrows/buttons ... | 13:36 |
| pupnik | the DS has wifi? | 13:37 |
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| * pupnik has gotten two people interested enough in the N770/800 to buy one | 13:38 | |
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| timeless | NintendoWIFI.com | 13:40 |
| zodttd | back | 13:43 |
| zodttd | Im one of the two people interested right pupnik? :) | 13:43 |
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| pupnik | :) | 13:51 |
| pupnik | well you knew about it before zodttd | 13:51 |
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| zodttd | :) | 13:53 |
| inz | pupnik, you mean 770/N800 ;) | 13:54 |
| zodttd | pupnik: Technically I wasnt interested in the tablet enough to get one until I saw your projects. | 13:54 |
| SeRi | Good Morning guys | 13:54 |
| zodttd | mornin | 13:54 |
| * SeRi ywans.... | 13:55 | |
| SeRi | Man time to go to work.... | 13:55 |
| SeRi | yay DS hacks! | 13:55 |
| SeRi | I love DS bootloaders and roms :P | 13:55 |
| SeRi | ok guys I am off to work.... cya! | 13:57 |
| pupnik | i dunno, that DS device looks too clunky | 13:57 |
| pupnik | cheers SeRi | 13:57 |
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| Toma- | could someone please port 'saytime' to maemo? :D it would be super. like those old talking clocks | 15:19 |
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| inz | Toma-, date +'%A %B %d %H:%M'|flite | 15:26 |
| Toma- | flite you say... | 15:26 |
| Toma- | oh NEAT! :D | 15:27 |
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| Toma- | moimart.org is dead :S | 15:29 |
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| pupnik | I want a cashier job at a store with no customers. | 15:36 |
| pupnik | Toma-: you can put it in a cron script too, or make an hourly chime... | 15:37 |
| Toma- | oh nice. | 15:37 |
| Toma- | i cant find a package for flite anywhere tho | 15:37 |
| Toma- | seems the person never put it on garage | 15:38 |
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| jait | Toma-, maemo mapper pulls it when you try to install it | 15:46 |
| Toma- | oh wow. ok then | 15:47 |
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| Toma- | ill use apt then :) thanks | 15:47 |
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| lool | jobi: Around? | 16:19 |
| lool | jobi: Is there a canonical place where I can fetch the patch between you gtk and upstream's? Should I diff a SVN export of your gtk module against the tarball? | 16:19 |
| lool | jobi: I need gdk_close_all_temporary_windows() for newer hildon-desktop :) | 16:19 |
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| alterego | Anyone have any issues with a 4Gb mini SD card in the N800? | 17:07 |
| alterego | Thinking of purchasing a couple. | 17:07 |
| keesj | alterego: I did not have issues on the N800 and I use it as rootfs | 17:12 |
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| alterego | keesj, cool. | 17:12 |
| keesj | skype stopped working lately but that's different :p | 17:12 |
| keesj | alterego: but on the forums and mailing list some people had troubles | 17:13 |
| alterego | Well, I have a problem with the on screen keyboard since I installed the microb browser :) | 17:13 |
| alterego | keesj, yeah, I remember reading about that. I wasn't quite sure what their issue was. | 17:13 |
| keesj | I cant' select oprea als browser andy more :p | 17:13 |
| alterego | Yeah, I can't do that either. | 17:13 |
| alterego | I've uninstalled MicroB and it's deps and it's still got that engine selection menu. | 17:14 |
| alterego | With MicroB selected, and I'm still getting this on screen kb issue. | 17:14 |
| keesj | the card failed twice on me on the 770 booth time it was with maemo-mapper or cannola | 17:14 |
| alterego | I think I'll wait for the next ITOS release before I reflash the device though, because it's not exactly a major problem for me. | 17:14 |
| derf | Maemo Mappers kills those cards hard. | 17:15 |
| alterego | Well, that is the 770 | 17:15 |
| derf | I don't have a 4 GB one, but even a 2 GB gives me trouble. | 17:15 |
| keesj | could it be something with special files created by sqlite | 17:15 |
| derf | On an N800. | 17:15 |
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| derf | With Maemo Mapper I would suspect simply the volume of I/O done on a ton of small files. | 17:16 |
| derf | No idea about Canola. | 17:16 |
| * alterego uninstalls Maemo mapper. | 17:16 | |
| derf | What?! No way. | 17:16 |
| derf | Most useful application ever. | 17:16 |
| k-s[WORK] | ehehehe | 17:16 |
| alterego | It would be if it used a RAM disk for it's SQL database and then copied it to the SD card during power cycles. | 17:16 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: did you see my vkbd demo? | 17:16 |
| derf | alterego: Uh, that would be worse, I think. | 17:17 |
| alterego | derf, How would that be worse? | 17:17 |
| derf | It crashes enough that I'm already annoyed at the number of things it doesn't sync to disk until you quit the application. | 17:17 |
| derf | (and it doesn't shutdown gracefully if it's still running when you power off the device) | 17:17 |
| alterego | It wont make it worse derf. | 17:17 |
| derf | I just heard you say "cache more things in RAM", while I want "cache fewer things in RAM". | 17:18 |
| derf | How is that not worse? | 17:18 |
| alterego | Oh, so it's worse because of something you want. | 17:18 |
| derf | Hence the "I think" at the end of my statement. | 17:18 |
| alterego | It won't trash memory cards if the SQLite database is on a RAM disk. | 17:18 |
| derf | See, I don't believe that. | 17:19 |
| alterego | derf, well that's your problem. | 17:19 |
| derf | I think it has far more to do with the map data than the SQLite database. | 17:19 |
| disq | k-s[WORK]: trev told me he has a lot of work today, so he's not around | 17:19 |
| alterego | Oh, so it continually opens and writes to the map images? | 17:19 |
| alterego | I don't think so .. | 17:19 |
| derf | It does if you're scrolling around with auto-download on. | 17:20 |
| alterego | derf, I think you're missing the point. | 17:20 |
| disq | maemo-mapper does not trash memory cards. come on | 17:20 |
| alterego | Downloading new images is just going to use up more SD memory. It's not going to constantly be writing to the same area on the media and wear it out. | 17:20 |
| SeRi | I have use maemo mapper since my 770 and It has not even once trash my cards | 17:21 |
| derf | Perhaps I should be more clear. The card itself continues to work fine. After I reboot the device because the kernel freaks out. | 17:21 |
| alterego | We're talking about your cards now? | 17:21 |
| disq | memory cards to wear-leveling so writing on the same area is not a problem (because you don't write on the same area) | 17:21 |
| derf | I was always talking about my cards. | 17:21 |
| derf | I don't know what else you'd expect me to talk about. | 17:22 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:22 |
| derf | disq: Yes, that's why I wasn't worried about it. | 17:22 |
| alterego | Well, I'm not worried. | 17:22 |
| disq | derf: i was just clearing the air about that | 17:22 |
| alterego | I barely use it. | 17:22 |
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| alterego | Though, I probably would more if I knew how to cache a large region. | 17:23 |
| derf | Go into "Manage Maps", you can download the currently displayed region at the detail levels you select. | 17:23 |
| alterego | Ah, that easy. | 17:24 |
| * alterego reinstalls maemo-mapper | 17:24 | |
| pupnik | do any of you ever use the 'home' button (bottom button) on the device? | 17:24 |
| alterego | ;) | 17:24 |
| alterego | All the time. | 17:24 |
| derf | I basically use it when I'm on travel, which has been quite often in the past 6 months. | 17:24 |
| alterego | pupnik, all the time .. | 17:24 |
| pupnik | hmm ok | 17:24 |
| disq | pupnik: all the time if i have a fullscreen app on the fg | 17:24 |
| derf | It's useful when you've got something fullscreened. | 17:25 |
| derf | Yeah. | 17:25 |
| keesj | pupnik: all the time , I even preffered how it worked on the it2006 | 17:25 |
| alterego | My xterms and browsers are always fullscreen. As are my MSN conversation windows. | 17:25 |
| pupnik | ok, i need to make these sdl games appear in that, and also get the x virtual keyboard to appear in that list | 17:25 |
| keesj | perhaps we can create a wiki page with stuff we would like on the next generation device? | 17:26 |
| alterego | I'd like a laser. | 17:26 |
| disq | speaking of sdl. i need a sdl guru (to track my unknown keysym problem) | 17:26 |
| derf | I'd like a shark. | 17:26 |
| keesj | a real joy-stick | 17:26 |
| disq | i'd like a popcorn machine | 17:26 |
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| disq | a real joy-stick and a jog dial on the opposite site | 17:27 |
| keesj | scroll weels more buttons | 17:27 |
| pupnik | analog stick keesj ? | 17:27 |
| alterego | Urgh. | 17:27 |
| pupnik | or a fast 8-way dpad? | 17:27 |
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| alterego | I don't want any more buttons thanks .. | 17:27 |
| disq | i don't think they'd go for analog stick | 17:27 |
| keesj | pupnik: no just a normal c64 type :p | 17:27 |
| keesj | with different autofire modes | 17:28 |
| pupnik | would you buy a slide-in shell with bluetooth dpad and right hand side buttons? | 17:28 |
| disq | i would absolutely try it | 17:29 |
| keesj | pupnik: I don't know, I already have a wii-remote, I would prefer the buttons on the deice to be usable | 17:30 |
| keesj | hmm yes I would if they would be mapped to new actions like scrolling | 17:31 |
| disq | of course it has to be very solid when mounted | 17:31 |
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| sp3000 | timeless: love how bug cloning files bugs on GET :O | 17:37 |
| sp3000 | that'll teach me to use it eh ;) | 17:37 |
| * sp3000 generally expects reload to be safe unless it complains | 17:37 | |
| * inz always excepts reload to be safe | 17:39 | |
| sp3000 | meh, it's only in the relevant rfc | 17:39 |
| inz | (and is often let down) | 17:39 |
| sp3000 | who reads those | 17:40 |
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| sp3000 | cloning is an evil feature anyway :) | 17:40 |
| Toma- | hey... wii-mote and the 770 would be great... | 17:41 |
| alterego | What's the deal with this iPhone keyboard? | 17:44 |
| alterego | Why is it so "great"? | 17:44 |
| keesj | Toma-: it's really working | 17:44 |
| Toma- | is it a garage project? | 17:45 |
| keesj | no' it's a mud package | 17:46 |
| pupnik | the iphone keyboard on IT? | 17:48 |
| Toma- | need something interesting to do with my 770 :( | 17:48 |
| pupnik | Toma-: plenty of things to do! help test and improve http://pupnik.de/software.html | 17:48 |
| Toma- | would really love a drum machine | 17:48 |
| Toma- | :o never seen this page | 17:49 |
| keesj | you could try to download it from here http://www.keesj.dds.nl/repo/repository_it2007/ | 17:49 |
| pupnik | keesj: what package? | 17:50 |
| Toma- | cwiid | 17:50 |
| keesj | https://maemo.org/community/wiki/hardwarewishlist/ | 17:51 |
| keesj | pupnik: cwiid | 17:52 |
| pupnik | ah for wii remote | 17:52 |
| Toma- | does cwiid need a n800? | 17:52 |
| pupnik | i can't use those pages | 17:53 |
| inz | keesj, try to paste maemo.org -links with http instead of https | 17:53 |
| keesj | sorry | 17:53 |
| inz | keesj, I don't mind, I have a garage account, but for someone who doesn't, it is annoying | 17:53 |
| Toma- | *yep* | 17:53 |
| Toma- | :D | 17:53 |
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| keesj | it's also annoying to browse the site using https anyway, every time i try to paste something the thing goed in edit mode :p | 17:54 |
| pupnik | oh wow, my account logs into maemo.org now! wootness | 17:55 |
| derf | Maybe I should try it. | 17:55 |
| Toma- | keesj: does cwiid need a n800? im getting a libbluetooth2 error | 17:55 |
| inz | keesj, I have a habit of painting text while reading it... | 17:56 |
| derf | Awesome. 404. | 17:56 |
| keesj | Toma-: this version was compiled fo the n800 but I can create one for the 770 if you want to try | 17:56 |
| Toma- | yeh ill give it a bash | 17:57 |
| Toma- | ill go grab a wiimote | 17:57 |
| Toma- | i can do a --force to install | 17:57 |
| Toma- | shouldnt really matter right? | 17:57 |
| keesj | Toma-: I don't know | 17:57 |
| keesj | did somebody read the "5 button" keyboard slashdot post a few day's ago? | 17:58 |
| Toma- | not too deeply | 17:59 |
| keesj | it's a bit complicated but I would like to spend some time learning a typing method for on the road | 17:59 |
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| pupnik | a wearable interface to the Tablet would be some fun future tech. Chording keyboard in pocket and display in sunglasses :) | 18:01 |
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| keesj | rfid reader? ir? distance meter, waterproof ' | 18:03 |
| Toma- | wmgui: error while loading shared libraries: libbluetooth.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 18:04 |
| Toma- | bummer | 18:04 |
| Toma- | oh yes | 18:04 |
| guardian_ | hmm i'm logging into my n800 using ssh, to which directory does the "Documents" directory correspond to ? | 18:04 |
| Toma- | bit of ln -s and bam :D | 18:05 |
| guardian_ | i thought it would be /home/usr/MyDocs | 18:05 |
| guardian_ | but it's not | 18:05 |
| derf | /home/user/MyDocs/.documents | 18:05 |
| guardian_ | oh | 18:05 |
| guardian_ | :) | 18:05 |
| guardian_ | thx | 18:05 |
| derf | Yer welcome. | 18:05 |
| maddler | keesj: I was thinking about an RFID reader :) | 18:05 |
| Toma- | well its recieving buttons. no motion | 18:05 |
| keesj | Toma-: for motion you just need to ehnable it in the gui | 18:06 |
| Toma- | ahh | 18:06 |
| keesj | Toma-: and if you have a kernel uinput module you can also use the remote as mouse | 18:06 |
| pupnik | freesci? | 18:06 |
| Toma- | sweet :D | 18:06 |
| keesj | you can also shake it, but audio did not work last time I checked | 18:07 |
| keesj | maddler the kits are quite big | 18:07 |
| keesj | perhaps a gprs chip? | 18:08 |
| Toma- | pretty laggy | 18:08 |
| pupnik | _Monkey: freesci is the Interpreter/Emulator for Sierra On-Line adventure games. Test and comment! 770/N800 compatible testing version here http://pupnik.de/freesci.html | 18:08 |
| _Monkey | OK, pupnik. | 18:08 |
| Toma- | keesj: can you map the wiimote buttons to the Nintendo emulator? | 18:09 |
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| timeless | hello world | 18:17 |
| timeless | so, um, in case people are curious, i finally got enough time to talk to people about the browser packages and their incompatibilities | 18:17 |
| timeless | yesterday/today was supposed to be spent setting up something like a blog so i could post announcements | 18:18 |
| timeless | oh well, i'll definitely need that | 18:18 |
| timeless | anyway, there are two packages (tablet-browser-controls, browser-eal) which you can install from application manager if you have the extras repository | 18:19 |
| timeless | they aren't compatible with the 4.2007-26 tablet-browser-ui (and its depedent) packages | 18:20 |
| keesj | Toma-: I have not played with the emulator but why not | 18:20 |
| Toma- | hmmm! :D | 18:20 |
| timeless | we will be issuing an updated package which includes dependencies to force that | 18:20 |
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| Toma- | mobile NES? yes plx! | 18:20 |
| keesj | if you run the daemon (and the a uinput module) it should just generate the input events | 18:20 |
| Toma- | ok | 18:21 |
| Toma- | i dont think theres a uinput for 770 | 18:21 |
| timeless | but first, we're going to do some testing cycles :( | 18:21 |
| pupnik | We could use someone to dive around the gp2x fceu NES emulator sources and fix the speed/sound issues. | 18:23 |
| keesj | Toma-: it's shipped with the btkdb | 18:24 |
| keesj | http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/ | 18:24 |
| Toma- | ahh thanks again | 18:24 |
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| whaq_ | timeless: is that for the mozilla based browser? | 18:27 |
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| inz | timeless, I can fix you with a blog in maemo-hackers.org, if you want ;P | 18:33 |
| timeless | whaq: um | 18:33 |
| timeless | so, well, the fault is mozilla based browser being intertwined with the browser ui | 18:34 |
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| timeless | but it's basically possible to pull in these packages without related libraries | 18:34 |
| timeless | and break opera | 18:34 |
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| timeless | inz: i need to just setup a small script | 18:34 |
| whaq_ | great | 18:34 |
| timeless | whaq: people who install microb don't have this problem | 18:35 |
| timeless | but not everyone should be forced to use a beta | 18:35 |
| timeless | unfortunately, um | 18:35 |
| timeless | well.... | 18:35 |
| * timeless hates debian | 18:35 | |
| whaq_ | will there be an easily-accessible option for end user to choose the active\default browser? | 18:35 |
| whaq_ | yes heh | 18:35 |
| timeless | there's supposed to be a menu below Close> that does that | 18:35 |
| timeless | i've seen it | 18:35 |
| whaq_ | great | 18:35 |
| timeless | i've had people report it's there | 18:35 |
| timeless | i've also had dozens of reports of it not being there | 18:35 |
| whaq_ | perfect, even. | 18:35 |
| timeless | and i've seen that too | 18:35 |
| whaq_ | that is weird | 18:36 |
| inz | I have it there | 18:36 |
| timeless | you can read bugs.maemo.org to see how to get it if you don't have it there | 18:36 |
| timeless | but before you hack it | 18:36 |
| timeless | please try to figure out what's special about your system | 18:36 |
| timeless | because no one has explained how they didn't get it | 18:36 |
| timeless | and we need to fix that too | 18:36 |
| timeless | but we can't w/o understanding the cause | 18:36 |
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| sp3000 | timeless: have you ruled out some locale effects | 18:37 |
| * sp3000 hasn't been testing it, mind | 18:37 | |
| timeless | i haven't | 18:37 |
| timeless | currently worrying about this other thing | 18:37 |
| whaq_ | me either, my n800 is still in the mail.. | 18:37 |
| timeless | did you see the conclusion to the locale stuff? | 18:37 |
| whaq_ | What other thing... TABS?? :D | 18:37 |
| sp3000 | probably not | 18:37 |
| timeless | sp3000: check the bug while i finish filing this | 18:37 |
| inz | Does anyone know how to get useful rss out of bugzilla | 18:37 |
| timeless | inz: eh? | 18:38 |
| timeless | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_id=388810,382267&ctype=rss | 18:38 |
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| inz | timeless, I want rss that has the last changed -date as item date, not the bug creation date | 18:38 |
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| timeless | http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Bugzilla&component=Creating/Changing+Bugs&format=guided&bug_severity=enhancement | 18:40 |
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| timeless | i'll fix it if you file it | 18:40 |
| timeless | be sure to provide steps to get to the rss you're talking about | 18:40 |
| timeless | and be sure to provide an attachment showing what you get and an attachment showing what you want | 18:41 |
| timeless | i don't fix bugs i can't understand | 18:41 |
| timeless | and if the bug isn't easier to fix than other things i have to deal w/, i'll ignore it | 18:41 |
| timeless | but if you make it trivial for me to fix by spelling out exactly what you want changed, | 18:41 |
| timeless | ... | 18:41 |
| inz | ;) | 18:41 |
| timeless | you're competing for attn, make your bug count, you'll get it :) | 18:41 |
| timeless | it'd also be appreciated if you include examples showing why it's a correct change | 18:41 |
| timeless | either a reference to a standard or just some url that changes often enough so that it can be seen | 18:42 |
| inz | timeless, first I'd need to fight the change to bugzilla, then to the administrators of the 'zilla in question... | 18:42 |
| timeless | your goal should always be to make it easy for an engineer to fix and then easy for the engineer to justify accepting the fix | 18:42 |
| inz | timeless, I guess I'll just make a perl script that makes it good enough for me | 18:42 |
| * sp3000 whispers param | 18:42 | |
| timeless | inz: if the bugzilla is bugs.maemo, i have enough pull to get things changes | 18:43 |
| inz | timeless, but I'm an engineer, I want to fix things, not explain why they're broken | 18:43 |
| timeless | s/s$/d/ | 18:43 |
| inz | timeless, almost that one, but not quite | 18:43 |
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| timeless | inz: http://mxr-test.landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla/source/template/en/default/list/list.atom.tmpl | 18:44 |
| sp3000 | timeless: 1669 doesn conclude anything about locales, is that another bug? | 18:44 |
| timeless | 1706 | 18:44 |
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| sp3000 | dnd is hard, let's go shopping | 18:46 |
| timeless | ? | 18:46 |
| sp3000 | unrelated | 18:46 |
| timeless | sp3000: xml is hard, let's go shopping | 18:46 |
| timeless | (related) | 18:46 |
| whaq_ | ?? | 18:47 |
| inz | timeless, that template looks like what I want... | 18:47 |
| timeless | whaq: see the bug i referenced | 18:47 |
| timeless | inz: i didn't pull it out of my rear... | 18:47 |
| timeless | seriously, i know and will gladly fix it | 18:48 |
| timeless | but you need to explain what i need to do | 18:48 |
| timeless | preferably in a bug so i can sell it | 18:48 |
| timeless | it'd be fixed by friday upstream | 18:48 |
| inz | timeless, I know, but it's not anywhere near the one I get | 18:48 |
| whaq_ | heh | 18:48 |
| timeless | inz: what version of bugzilla are you using? | 18:48 |
| inz | timeless, 2.20 | 18:49 |
| timeless | inz: there's a view using tree drop down at the top | 18:49 |
| timeless | change to bugzilla2.20.x | 18:49 |
| _Monkey | timeless: that doesn't look right | 18:49 |
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| timeless | for kicks, you can click "diff file" | 18:50 |
| timeless | and select bugzilla2.20.x in one tree and bugzilla in the other | 18:50 |
| timeless | then click "submit query" | 18:50 |
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| timeless | you'll see that they're indeed different, although only near the bottom | 18:50 |
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| timeless | http://mxr-test.landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla2.20.x/diff?file=/template/en/default/list/list.atom.tmpl&diffvar=bugzilla | 18:50 |
| * sp3000 homes | 18:50 | |
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| timeless | sp3000: these new features on mxr-test really are useful :) | 18:51 |
| sp3000 | :) | 18:51 |
| pupnik | Sumbdy bld an aoss wrapper for /dev/dsp output kthnx | 18:51 |
| timeless | inz: a proper diff is available by using the CVS Log links | 18:51 |
| timeless | http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsview2.cgi?command=DIFF&subdir=%2Fmozilla%2Fwebtools%2Fbugzilla%2Ftemplate%2Fen%2Fdefault%2Flist&file=list.atom.tmpl&rev1=1.1.2.3&rev2=1.4&whitespace_mode=show&diff_mode=context | 18:52 |
| timeless | hrm, actually, i suppose there are some other differences at 32/36/39/44/50/52 | 18:53 |
| timeless | i just can't see those !s too dimm | 18:53 |
| * timeless will have to try sticking them in bold :) | 18:53 | |
| inz | timeless, is there a way for the user to choose between rdf and atom feeds? | 18:53 |
| timeless | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_id=388810,382267&ctype=rdf | 18:54 |
| timeless | bit very useful | 18:54 |
| timeless | s/bi/no/ | 18:54 |
| infobot_ | timeless meant: not very useful | 18:54 |
| timeless | wait, you have *two* bots? | 18:54 |
| inz | timeless, the bugzilla I use outputs rdf-based rss for ctype=rss | 18:56 |
| timeless | inz: lemme finish filing this bug | 18:57 |
| timeless | could someone please tell me the prayer one says right before someone dies? | 18:57 |
| timeless | is that called "last rites"? | 18:57 |
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| * zuh never thought bug filing could get that dangerous | 18:57 | |
| timeless | zuh: hold | 18:58 |
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| timeless | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 | 18:58 |
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| timeless | imagine filing that bug report | 18:58 |
| timeless | sure you shouldn't actually stick a human subject where they did, but um... the actual results do include death in what was it, 6 cases? | 18:58 |
| inz | timeless, I'm off to sauna now, I'll see if I'm still bothered by it tomorrow ;) | 18:59 |
| * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch | 18:59 | |
| Hyperion|n800 | lol | 18:59 |
| inz | timeless, and anyway it seems to be fixed upstream | 18:59 |
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| timeless | inz: ok :) | 18:59 |
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| timeless | hyperion: yeah, it's not really funny,... | 19:00 |
| timeless | keep in mind we have cases of exploding batteries | 19:00 |
| *** dneary_zZz is now known as dneary_away | 19:00 | |
| timeless | and today there were reports of exploding remote control airplanes | 19:00 |
| timeless | you can say a prayer for the plane before you blow it up | 19:00 |
| timeless | there are also people who manage to brick their n800s | 19:01 |
| timeless | definitely want to say the prayer before it dies... | 19:01 |
| timeless | sorry, i think some humor is worthwhile when dealing w/ unhappy people | 19:02 |
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| timeless | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1720 | 19:18 |
| timeless | ok, i'd appreciate it if a few people at least read that item | 19:19 |
| * timeless goes off to figure out blogging software | 19:20 | |
| unique311 | sl i just read on gustavobarbieri blog, that his EFL stuff are just a showcase... | 19:20 |
| unique311 | anyone working on app using gustavo's method? will we soon be seeing these eyecandy apps for the devices... | 19:21 |
| Jaffa | unique311: It's a showcase/test bed for what Canola is using in the next version (AIUI) | 19:22 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: it's a cool example (any chance you can rebuild browser-eal or tablet-browser-controls with a dependency on tablet-browser-ui et al?) | 19:25 |
| timeless | jaffa: we'll do that | 19:26 |
| timeless | but there's no chance i'm shipping it before friday | 19:26 |
| timeless | i'm going to have testers figure out all the different variations | 19:26 |
| timeless | you could help | 19:26 |
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| timeless | basically i need to know if 2.2007 is broken also | 19:26 |
| timeless | (really, i want to know if 770 non hacker edition is broken too) | 19:27 |
| timeless | if 2.2007 is broken, then i suspect that the fix you/i are considering is wrong | 19:27 |
| timeless | because it'd probably break even more things | 19:27 |
| timeless | and that's definitely not what i want | 19:27 |
| timeless | does anyone here have or remember an ancient n800? | 19:27 |
| timeless | i'm trying to understand what releases existed | 19:27 |
| timeless | bugs.maemo lists 2.2007, 3.2007, 4.2007 | 19:27 |
| timeless | but my memory differs, so i need to find a normal person to confirm | 19:28 |
| timeless | anyway, if you could follow the steps i've outlined in the bug w/ 2.2007 / 3.2007 and determine if they too are breakable | 19:30 |
| timeless | that'd be a great help | 19:30 |
| timeless | if we break those, i need a very different fix plan | 19:30 |
| timeless | right now i need to figure out how to deal w/ announcements and some other things | 19:30 |
| timeless | (qa and releng went home for the day, otherwise tomorrow morning that's what qa does. and releng would setup the repositories for qa to test..) | 19:31 |
| Jaffa | timeless: I'll try and find time, but I'm (suddenly) super massive busy at work :-( | 19:31 |
| timeless | it doesn't really have to be you of course, anyone willing to reflash could do it | 19:31 |
| timeless | the steps to reproduce are designed for anyone to be able to folllow | 19:31 |
| timeless | although i didn't include the url for getting the older flash images | 19:32 |
| timeless | which i did in the steps i gave to qa | 19:32 |
| timeless | (instructions were clear: download from the official public site, but i did the download before a went home to avoid risk of confusion) | 19:32 |
| timeless | i'll comment in the bug explaining that it would be helpful | 19:32 |
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| timeless | hrm, stupid question | 19:35 |
| timeless | can you flash a device using windows? | 19:35 |
| notpeter | yes | 19:36 |
| timeless | where are the instructions for that? | 19:36 |
| timeless | i can find instructions for linux and osx | 19:36 |
| timeless | (and i've used both) | 19:36 |
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| jait | timeless, try the official n800 product pages | 19:37 |
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| timeless | ah, http://nds1.nokia.com/files/support/global/phones/software/Nokia_Internet_Tablet_Software_Update_Wizard.exe | 19:38 |
| notpeter | For 770: http://usa.nokia.com/A4144790 For n800: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010 | 19:38 |
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| notpeter | Specifically, you have to change the image selected at the end of the wizard process http://europe.nokia.com/link?cid=PLAIN_TEXT_80298 | 19:40 |
| timeless | thanks | 19:40 |
| notpeter | np | 19:40 |
| timeless | kinda silly that mameo.org doesn't have pages for this | 19:40 |
| timeless | one stop shopping ... | 19:41 |
| timeless | especially given how amazingly bad nokia's site is at getting google hits | 19:41 |
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| notpeter | I have a 770, and looking to take a bunch of screenshots for tutorials, what apps do people use? | 19:44 |
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| timeless | there's a screenshot-tool commandline | 19:44 |
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| timeless | i tend to use it w/ "sleep 5" | 19:44 |
| timeless | there's also a cpu meter tray applet | 19:44 |
| timeless | that happens to have a screenshot feature | 19:44 |
| timeless | don't ask me why | 19:44 |
| notpeter | Hehe, cause people who care about load probably want to take screenshots at some point ;) | 19:45 |
| timeless | also not sure what you mean by "bunch", are you trying to make avvideo | 19:45 |
| timeless | notpeter: *shrug*, taskmanager on windows, activity monitor.app on osx neither have such a feature | 19:45 |
| timeless | of course, both os's come w/ native screen shot support | 19:45 |
| notpeter | yeah, too bad my mac doesn't have a "print screen" button ;) | 19:46 |
| timeless | cmd-opt-3 | 19:46 |
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| notpeter | no, I know, for use in windows | 19:46 |
| timeless | *word* i think printscreen is command (a.k.a the Apple key) - shift - 3. | 19:46 |
| timeless | oh, hrm | 19:46 |
| timeless | my usb keyboard is mac oriented | 19:46 |
| timeless | i don't recall having problems using it w/ windows | 19:47 |
| notpeter | not a big deal, twas just kidding | 19:47 |
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| notpeter | but since you mention it, there isn't a way to record video, is there? I think the easiest way would be to just run a script that ran screenshot tool taking a screenshot every five seconds or something and then put them all together later off device. | 19:49 |
| timeless | that's what i was wondering if you were looking for | 19:49 |
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| timeless | my keyboard kinda looks like this: http://www.nextag.com/Adesso-PCK-308B-Tru-81106118/prices-html w/o the gray bits | 19:50 |
| notpeter | but I'll stop speculating, I'll play with what's out there and see if it fits my needs | 19:50 |
| timeless | http://only.mawhrin.net/~mss/thingies/mst/ looks vaguely interesting | 19:51 |
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| timeless | "Load applet" is the status bar thing that does it | 19:52 |
| timeless | itaka sounds interesting | 19:55 |
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| * timeless gives up | 19:56 | |
| timeless | i'd probably use a shell script that basically loops around sleeping and screenshottooling | 19:57 |
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| jjazz | I'm trying to setup an N800 and noticed there's no /usr/bin/editor. I know the device comes with vi, but there doesn't seem to be an escape key. Are there any other editors on the device? Thanks. | 20:01 |
| timeless | you can use osso notes gui :) | 20:01 |
| timeless | there's an upgraded xterm that has an esc button | 20:01 |
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| jait | jjazz: try the escape hw key, it's the one with the arrow | 20:01 |
| timeless | but the hardware escape (back) key works to send escape | 20:01 |
| pupnik | the circle-arrow button should be e... | 20:01 |
| jjazz | Ah, good tips. Thank you all. | 20:02 |
| jjazz | More questions: is there a way to read an image off the device? I thought I might use it for backup. That way I can restore the box just by flashing it. | 20:03 |
| timeless | technically yes | 20:03 |
| timeless | i had it done once | 20:03 |
| timeless | in practice, i'm not sure how useful it | 20:03 |
| timeless | is | 20:03 |
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| timeless | since the result isn't really compatible w/ anything | 20:03 |
| timeless | the flasher wants input that's in an unrelated format | 20:04 |
| disq | probably 0xFFFF can do that | 20:04 |
| jjazz | Ah. OK. I'll stick with rsync then. | 20:04 |
| timeless | yeah, rsync is reasonable | 20:04 |
| jjazz | And, before I reinvent the wheel, anybody know a script that will convert gpe-calendar's sqlite db to ical? | 20:04 |
| timeless | i'm also not really sure you can do it w/ special hardware | 20:05 |
| timeless | when it was done for me, the guy used special hardware | 20:05 |
| timeless | but i suppose it's probably theoretically possible, he basically did a dd if=/dev/{something} | 20:05 |
| jjazz | timeless: Special hardware... that I don't have. Happily, rsync is a known quantity. :) | 20:05 |
| timeless | isn't rsync one of those apps i can't get for maemo? :) | 20:06 |
| jjazz | I got it via apt-get. | 20:06 |
| timeless | ok :) | 20:06 |
| timeless | i just recall having trouble getting some fairly basic tool on some strange platform, i thought it was rsync | 20:06 |
| timeless | otoh, it might have been windows | 20:07 |
| jjazz | Well, I had to search all over the place for a repository, but I did eventually find one. | 20:07 |
| timeless | (and yes, i know rsync is amazingly portable, but some toolchains are just amazingly broken) | 20:07 |
| jjazz | I'm looking into scratchbox. All these random repositories kind of freak me out. | 20:07 |
| timeless | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2007-February/004142.html | 20:07 |
| timeless | having killed a standard desktop using repositories, you definitely want to use /something/ to protect yourself | 20:08 |
| jjazz | timeless: that link goes to a version of rsync that wouldn't install on my N800. It's built for the arm instead of the armel | 20:09 |
| timeless | oh, you said n800 | 20:09 |
| timeless | sorry | 20:09 |
| timeless | for some reason i thought you said 770 | 20:10 |
| jjazz | Cool. My bt keybd just arrived. | 20:10 |
| * timeless gives up | 20:11 | |
| timeless | maybe it was rsync that i couldn't find easily :) | 20:11 |
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| inz | notpeter, if you want to upload your screenshots to flickr, you can also use mh-shot-tool ;) | 20:12 |
| jjazz | timeless: deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ 2.0 free | 20:12 |
| timeless | > The spirit of simplicity extends even to Apple retail stores. The elevator in Apple's popular Tokyo store, for instance, has no floor buttons. It stops on every floor of the four-story building. "I got used to this," said Hiroshi Kawano, 40-year-old employee of a printing firm, on a recent visit to the store. "It's simple, and I like it." | 20:13 |
| * timeless chuckles | 20:13 | |
| pupnik | hahaha | 20:15 |
| jjazz | Whoa. This keybd is awesome. | 20:16 |
| inz | timeless, paternoster-elevators are even cooler, they don't even have doors | 20:17 |
| timeless | inz: been there done that | 20:17 |
| timeless | Lucerna building in Prague | 20:18 |
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| * k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back. | 20:18 | |
| *** k-s[AWAY_WORK] is now known as k-s[WORK] | 20:19 | |
| inz | timeless, sadly I've never used one, the finnish parliament house has "one" though | 20:19 |
| timeless | yes, i've heard/read | 20:19 |
| timeless | go to prague :) | 20:19 |
| inz | maybe some day | 20:19 |
| timeless | the longer you wait the less likely it'll be operational :) | 20:20 |
| Sparrow- | I have always wondered what happens after the top floor with that kind of elevators | 20:20 |
| timeless | you move laterally | 20:20 |
| inz | and go down | 20:20 |
| Sparrow- | nice | 20:20 |
| jani | does anyone know any bejeweled port to maemo ? | 20:21 |
| inz | Sparrow, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster | 20:21 |
| timeless | i think i had one | 20:21 |
| timeless | on one of my older devices | 20:21 |
| jani | gweled .. found one | 20:21 |
| timeless | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/battlegweled/ ? | 20:21 |
| jani | yep. | 20:22 |
| timeless | yeah | 20:22 |
| timeless | although iirc their repo was gone | 20:22 |
| timeless | so i couldn't install any of their software on my later devices | 20:22 |
| jani | but no source .. | 20:22 |
| timeless | there was a 5yr girl who was fairly upset at me because i introduced her to crazyparking and then didn't have it | 20:22 |
| timeless | fwiw, getting 5yr olds upset is a bad idea | 20:23 |
| jani | =) | 20:23 |
| timeless | and introducing them to addictive games and then losing them is pretty bad | 20:23 |
| timeless | since they have a fairly good memory | 20:23 |
| jani | getting any amotions out of 5yr girls is allways hazardous | 20:23 |
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| timeless | it'd been a while since i had much in the way of interactions with that age group | 20:24 |
| jani | i have one of those so its kinda hard to be without. | 20:25 |
| timeless | i suppose you don't remember what it's like not ... | 20:25 |
| jani | to be 5yr girl or ? | 20:26 |
| timeless | having one around | 20:26 |
| * timeless suspects life is much more exciting | 20:27 | |
| jani | if you like lots of screaming and shouting then yes =) | 20:28 |
| jani | im not complaining thou so dont get me wrong there. | 20:28 |
| inz | jani, so you do like lots of screaming and shouting? | 20:29 |
| * timeless chuckles | 20:29 | |
| jani | nah. im just Not complaining. | 20:29 |
| jani | stating the facts | 20:29 |
| jani | there's a difference. | 20:29 |
| jani | very minor. usually only audible only by db meter. | 20:30 |
| * pupnik watches thoughtfix take apart a n800 on youtube | 20:30 | |
| jani | anyway, i was thinking.. if i manage to wrap up this curses based bejeweled, i'll try to port it to maemo too .. | 20:31 |
| pupnik | the full version not port-able? | 20:32 |
| jani | well, this is just for practicing how to make portable code .. | 20:32 |
| jani | and seems that battlegweled doesnt come with source ? gweled source i have ... | 20:33 |
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| jani | and i really want to make the curses version =) | 20:34 |
| pupnik | mk | 20:36 |
| timeless | jani: can you figure out if they're related? what's the license for gweled? | 20:37 |
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| jani | they most propably are. | 20:38 |
| jani | maemo.org says "A Gweled based bejeweled clone for Maemo, if the optional multiplayer battle mode. Wi-fi only." | 20:39 |
| timeless | jani: send an email to the maintainer asking for the sources | 20:39 |
| timeless | gpl2 obligations | 20:40 |
| jani | yep | 20:40 |
| jani | its a shame how things are like this, not honouring gpl .. | 20:41 |
| timeless | s/honouring/understanding/ | 20:42 |
| inz | http://openbossa.indt.org.br/games/pool/games/ | 20:42 |
| jani | i was trying to fish that url from .install files. thanks =) | 20:42 |
| timeless | i was already at that directory | 20:43 |
| timeless | but i didn't notice the .tar.gz | 20:43 |
| timeless | for some reason i decided it wasn't what i was looking for | 20:43 |
| timeless | the general trick is to add /pool/ to a repository | 20:43 |
| inz | timeless, maybe your brain cannot decompress gzip? | 20:43 |
| timeless | inz: brain's very tired from all the other things, but had i clicked the link, my browser would have sent it to winzip which handled it fine | 20:44 |
| timeless | i think i've been in .deb land too long | 20:44 |
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| timeless | i was looking for a file named w/ debian source conventions | 20:44 |
| jani | im not that familiar with deb repositories myself | 20:45 |
| inz | timeless, isn't that w/ debian source conventions | 20:45 |
| inz | timeless, no dash in version => no upstream => no .orig in tarball | 20:46 |
| timeless | maybe | 20:46 |
| timeless | i think all the packages i use are hacked to hell | 20:46 |
| inz | ;) | 20:47 |
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| jani | i gosh. | 20:50 |
| jani | battlegweled uses .bmp images | 20:50 |
| timeless | you don't approve? | 20:50 |
| timeless | marbbles and blocks do | 20:51 |
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| jani | i havent noticed those. i will take need to take alook then. | 20:51 |
| * pupnik notes that matchbox-keyboard is a newer 'improved' xkbd | 20:52 | |
| timeless | the blocks in blocks are from bmp | 20:52 |
| timeless | as are the numbers | 20:52 |
| pupnik | anybody know what that black onscreen keyboard on the penguinbait OPENROX video is? | 20:52 |
| jani | well, those images take approx 5mb .. not much but still it is 4.8mb that would be used for something else. | 20:53 |
| pupnik | bmp: how to waste space :P | 20:53 |
| timeless | err | 20:53 |
| timeless | you realize that jffs2 does compression | 20:53 |
| timeless | space is relative | 20:53 |
| jani | yes i do | 20:53 |
| zuh | jffs2 makes speed relative too ;) | 20:54 |
| jani | but its not propably that efficient compared to image compression for actual image data =) | 20:54 |
| pupnik | good point re: compression. but image specific compression like in png can be more efficient | 20:54 |
| timeless | virtually everything in marbles is bmp | 20:56 |
| timeless | one thing i'm not sure is how much is actually shipped | 20:56 |
| jani | i knew it was horrible but i never checked what fileformats it uses. | 20:56 |
| timeless | i'm looking at the sources | 20:56 |
| timeless | you're internal, right? | 20:57 |
| timeless | http://swift/osso10/find?string=bmp$ | 20:57 |
| timeless | just wander around | 20:57 |
| jani | well, my badge says external but i have access. | 20:57 |
| jani | allthou im on holiday now. but im on compapps. | 20:58 |
| zuh | timeless: I was about to say that keep your insider urls out of public channels but apparently that's sort of valid url in "real" world too :P | 20:58 |
| timeless | that's a relatively complete reference for what we ship | 20:58 |
| timeless | zuh: normally i get a google redirect to some site | 20:59 |
| timeless | which is fun | 20:59 |
| timeless | no connection details are disclosed in that url | 20:59 |
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| jani | i'll have to check that later when i get to the office. thanks. | 21:00 |
| jani | that jffs2 is bastard thing btw. | 21:00 |
| jani | well, not the fs itself but how testers think how it should work. | 21:00 |
| zuh | Internal urls just suck since most of the people here won't be able to access it... It's like waving candy at children and saying they can't have any | 21:01 |
| timeless | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/songbird/find?string=png | 21:01 |
| timeless | have some candy | 21:01 |
| timeless | zuh: i'm trying to get an external equivalent running on probably lxr.maemo.org | 21:02 |
| timeless | the urls i do toss around are intentionally generic | 21:02 |
| timeless | and only show off general features that you could use on any of my installs | 21:02 |
| timeless | mxr.mozilla.org mxr-test.landfill.bugzilla.org timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test ... | 21:02 |
| zuh | That's cool, though I was mostly making a general comment about any non-accessible urls. | 21:02 |
| timeless | swift happens to be internal and yes, it happens to have a collection of all garage sources | 21:03 |
| timeless | but the goal is to get that published outside for everyone to use | 21:03 |
| timeless | i just need to spend some time when i'm *not* fighting browser fires to do it | 21:03 |
| jani | timeless: you work also in ruoholahti or ? | 21:04 |
| timeless | yes | 21:04 |
| timeless | i couldn't say that until we released browser last week :) | 21:04 |
| jani | =) | 21:04 |
| timeless | zuh: would it be in bad form for me to indicate my room number? :) | 21:05 |
| jani | hehe | 21:05 |
| timeless | jani: wander around in search of the org chart hanging over the 770 from silver surfer next to the n800 sales info from nokiausa/nokia.com | 21:05 |
| timeless | (yes the org chart is company confidential ...) | 21:06 |
| timeless | it also isn't accurate (never was) | 21:06 |
| zuh | timeless: only if your contract probhibits such things :) | 21:06 |
| timeless | there's a rule about disclosing connection specific details or something | 21:07 |
| timeless | swift doesn't disclose that | 21:07 |
| timeless | and osso10 was released including bleeding that detail | 21:07 |
| timeless | the rest of the url as i've indicated can be found all over on sites i control (and on a number i don't e.g. the mozilla.org one) | 21:07 |
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| timeless | i try to be very careful about such things | 21:07 |
| jani | =) | 21:08 |
| timeless | i'll talk about things that other people are doing in the open (e.g. plankton), but you can get it just as easily as i can | 21:08 |
| timeless | probably more easily, since i need a proxy | 21:08 |
| jani | well, to make it simple, i usually need to say "Im that dreadlocked/breaded fellow" and everybody remembers seeing me there =) | 21:09 |
| jani | s/breaded/bearded/ | 21:09 |
| infobot | jani meant: well, to make it simple, i usually need to say "Im that dreadlocked/bearded fellow" and everybody remembers seeing me there =) | 21:09 |
| * timeless doesn't remember | 21:09 | |
| * timeless is the american with an opinion about everything | 21:09 | |
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| jani | then you code too much =) | 21:10 |
| timeless | i don't get out much, no | 21:10 |
| * timeless decides to walk home | 21:10 | |
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| alterego | Anyone ever have the task selector show up with big icons and text? | 21:29 |
| alterego | As though it's continually detecting a fat finger press which never happened? | 21:29 |
| pupnik | do you mean thumb keyboard? | 21:30 |
| alterego | No, you know how the N800 detects when you press the application/contact/web menu with a finger it displays a large menu. | 21:30 |
| alterego | Like that but with the task switcher menu (accessible through the home key) | 21:31 |
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| pupnik | wow i never did that before! | 21:31 |
| alterego | ;) | 21:31 |
| alterego | Well, that's happening every time the task selector menu comes up. And it shouldn't. | 21:32 |
| alterego | Does that until I restart the device. | 21:32 |
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| alterego | I think I will reflash my N800 in a bit actually .. | 21:33 |
| alterego | Get rid of some of these weird things hopefully. | 21:33 |
| jani | i thought it was a new feature. | 21:33 |
| roundeye | does any konw where i can find the host command and whois for mistral? | 21:33 |
| alterego | Oh, yeah. | 21:33 |
| alterego | I can reverse it! | 21:33 |
| alterego | ^_^ | 21:33 |
| alterego | So if you open the menu using a finger or thumb it comes up big, and successive opens with the home button will bring up the big version. | 21:34 |
| alterego | But if you do it with small object/nail/pen it comes up small again. | 21:34 |
| alterego | Well, that's nice ^_^ | 21:34 |
| `0660 | actually the big buttons come up only for people with really fat fingers | 21:36 |
| `0660 | :p | 21:37 |
| roundeye | dose any have whois or host working on there nokia? | 21:37 |
| sp3000 | `0660: the rest of us get the gray alien fingers version | 21:38 |
| jani | i dont think so but there was some net tools just released wasnt there ? | 21:38 |
| jani | something was in maemo devel list by quim few weeks ago. | 21:39 |
| roundeye | hmm ill look into it | 21:40 |
| roundeye | do you have a link where i could start looking? | 21:40 |
| jani | im quite sure the announcement was in maemo.org too.. | 21:41 |
| notpeter | is anyone using the high speed MMC kernels on a 770? http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#mmcplus | 21:41 |
| jani | http://maemo.org/news/view/1181130611.html | 21:42 |
| jani | containing ping, arping and tracepath for simple network analysis | 21:42 |
| jani | but no host/whois .. | 21:42 |
| roundeye | cool | 21:42 |
| pupnik | configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check | 21:42 |
| roundeye | well ill keep looking | 21:42 |
| roundeye | i would like to have ping too thow | 21:42 |
| jani | anyway, host would be pretty easy to implement | 21:42 |
| roundeye | thanks you jani | 21:42 |
| pupnik | ahh nm | 21:43 |
| jani | and whois, depends on what sort of stuff you want to do with it, i'd say there's alot of web apps which can do better whois service than most commandline tools. | 21:43 |
| roundeye | i konw but im tring to troble shoot some issuses on the lan | 21:43 |
| jani | atleast when it comes to making queries against multiple whois servers. | 21:43 |
| jani | ack | 21:44 |
| roundeye | im having problems with the name server where im at | 21:44 |
| jani | thats one thing where web whois cant help ya =) | 21:44 |
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| pupnik | it appears that i can not create an x window with less than full width in ITOS | 21:57 |
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| fatal-_ | considering video on n800, what would be the ideal video format and resolution? I was thinking about how to watch dvd's with it... | 22:00 |
| pupnik | i use http://www.bleb.org/software/770/770-encode.pl to convert movies to nokia friendly format | 22:02 |
| pupnik | http://www.bleb.org/software/770/ | 22:02 |
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| fatal-_ | pupnik: oh, thanks, I'll try that one. I just got a 2GB sd and thought that I shoud put it into some use :) | 22:04 |
| pupnik | depends on what you're using to play the stuff... mplayer can do xvid/divx | 22:05 |
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| trevarthan | Is there a menu application or something out there that I can configure with my most commonly used shell command, so that when I start up xterm I just run one command and then press down a bunch of times or something? | 22:21 |
| trevarthan | I could write one... but I'm lazy. | 22:21 |
| alterego | You can configure the toolbar. | 22:22 |
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| trevarthan | yeah, I know, but I need more options than that. | 22:22 |
| trevarthan | it gets crowded. | 22:22 |
| cbx33 | hey all when i run python gtk apps....the edge of the window over laps the nice faded edge of the screen on the left | 22:23 |
| cbx33 | anyway to stop this? | 22:23 |
| cbx33 | nmapfe is very crowded.....hehehe ;) | 22:23 |
| alterego | cbx33, in the SDK? | 22:23 |
| cbx33 | i just installed python | 22:23 |
| cbx33 | and I'm running a very simple program | 22:23 |
| cbx33 | but i want it to look nice | 22:23 |
| cbx33 | just like | 22:23 |
| cbx33 | import gtk | 22:23 |
| alterego | cbx33, you need to read the Python tutorial. | 22:23 |
| cbx33 | oh ok | 22:23 |
| lmoura | cbx33, are you using hildon.Window or gtk.Window? | 22:24 |
| cbx33 | the maemo python tutorial? | 22:24 |
| alterego | You have to create a Hildon::Window and a Hildon::Program | 22:24 |
| cbx33 | gtk window | 22:24 |
| cbx33 | i guess that's the problem | 22:24 |
| alterego | No, Hildon::Window | 22:24 |
| cbx33 | ahh | 22:24 |
| alterego | Yes :) | 22:24 |
| cbx33 | got a link | 22:24 |
| cbx33 | would relaly like to read up on that | 22:24 |
| whaq_ | hm.. quite a lot of bluetooth keyboards in the market.. any particularly good one? | 22:24 |
| lmoura | cbx33, pymaemo.garage.maemo.org | 22:24 |
| alterego | nmapfe isn't properly ported to maemo, that's why it doesn't integrate with the UI. | 22:24 |
| cbx33 | alterego, i know | 22:25 |
| cbx33 | oh and i tried to untar the pygtk src today | 22:26 |
| cbx33 | to get the docs | 22:26 |
| cbx33 | and i got tar: invalid tar magic | 22:26 |
| cbx33 | any ideas? | 22:26 |
| alterego | cbx33, it's gzip'd too I'd imagine. | 22:26 |
| alterego | Try, tar xzf tarfile.tar | 22:26 |
| trevarthan | Any way to launch console apps from a button on the Home screen? | 22:27 |
| alterego | cbx33, If you're using UNIX you can use 'file filename' to find out what kind of file it is. | 22:27 |
| cbx33 | alterego, yeh that didn't work | 22:27 |
| cbx33 | i did | 22:27 |
| alterego | cbx33, if that doesn't work. Try downloading the source again ;) | 22:27 |
| cbx33 | whaaa | 22:27 |
| cbx33 | really? | 22:27 |
| cbx33 | corrupted? | 22:27 |
| alterego | Come on, it's not that big :) | 22:27 |
| cbx33 | heheh | 22:27 |
| cbx33 | is pymaemo.... the python you instlal from the repos? | 22:28 |
| pyhimys | cbx33: tar xf foo.tar | 22:28 |
| pyhimys | it might be non-gzipped | 22:28 |
| cbx33 | its a .tar.gz | 22:29 |
| cbx33 | i tried that | 22:29 |
| cbx33 | it won't budge | 22:29 |
| pyhimys | damn. | 22:30 |
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| alterego | Yeah, probably corrupted then. | 22:32 |
| timelyx | hey jani? | 22:36 |
| timelyx | indt games for maemo just posted to add a garage project :) | 22:36 |
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| cbx33 | ok I'll try again later on | 22:37 |
| alterego | Well, that was short lived. | 22:37 |
| cbx33 | thanks guys | 22:37 |
| jani | email or to the website? | 22:37 |
| cbx33 | is pymaemo.... the python you instlal from the repos? | 22:37 |
| alterego | My site is no longer #1 in google for Ruby Maemo :~( | 22:37 |
| alterego | Oh well, I'm gonna move the project to rubyx.co.uk anyhow. | 22:38 |
| timelyx | a project | 22:40 |
| timelyx | i don't generally do approvals of project proposals | 22:40 |
| timelyx | err, i've *never* done them :) | 22:41 |
| timelyx | but i get email for them :) | 22:41 |
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| MDK | robtaylor: wtf, I can't authorize you still dude | 22:53 |
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| jani | ack | 22:54 |
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| pupnik | i think i figured out a possible way to get xkbd out of the way when running apps. the window height is selectable (but not the width) so i might be able to add a button to change window height to 8 pixels. then a tap in that area will revert it to the normal size | 23:17 |
| fatal-_ | uh oh. all the sound output of my n800 is more or less garbled suddenly :o | 23:18 |
| Sulis | fatal-_: that has happened to me twice, first time i had to reflash it to fix it, but the second time it only took a restart | 23:18 |
| fatal-_ | hmm. well, restart time then | 23:19 |
| Sulis | good luck | 23:20 |
| pupnik | reboot fixed the tv brightness problem | 23:20 |
| unique311 | http://forum.72dpiarmy.com/viewtopic.php?t=1586 | 23:22 |
| fatal-_ | reboot fixed the problem.. | 23:22 |
| unique311 | pupnik for you... | 23:22 |
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| unique311 | can u port senior | 23:23 |
| cbx33 | thanks for the hildon help | 23:31 |
| cbx33 | anything else that I should use hildon for rather than gtk? | 23:31 |
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| * cbx33 wants a btkb but they are all so expensive | 23:32 | |
| roundeye | ok | 23:32 |
| roundeye | guys | 23:32 |
| roundeye | heres the question | 23:32 |
| roundeye | borg vs. transformers who wins | 23:32 |
| cbx33 | borg | 23:32 |
| cbx33 | though I'd love it if the transformers did | 23:33 |
| Sulis | pft, the borg assimilate their technilogical and biological likenesses into their own | 23:33 |
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| unique311 | transformers | 23:33 |
| pupnik | looks fun unique311 | 23:34 |
| unique311 | i tried | 23:34 |
| pupnik | what didn't work? | 23:34 |
| GreySim | Is installing software on '06 on a 770 generally a major hassle, or am I (hopefully) missing something? | 23:35 |
| pupnik | ? | 23:36 |
| pupnik | it's a bit of a hassle sometimes | 23:36 |
| * GreySim is particularly interested in Evince and Xournal and can't seem to make it work. | 23:36 | |
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| cbx33 | thanks so much for the hildon links | 23:38 |
| N800 | I tried compiling it pupnik... | 23:38 |
| cbx33 | guys this is gonna be so cool | 23:38 |
| N800 | but failed.. | 23:38 |
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| N800 | complained about SDL_mixer.h | 23:38 |
| ||cw | GreySim: you added the sources right? | 23:38 |
| GreySim | Are there sometimes multiple places to get things? Maybe I'm just using the wrong repository... | 23:39 |
| GreySim | Yes. | 23:39 |
| pupnik | N800 i found some of the sdl headers were missing and i manually copied them in from another debian distro | 23:39 |
| GreySim | It's giving me missing package problems when trying to download. | 23:40 |
| pupnik | then install those missing packages first | 23:40 |
| pupnik | N800 you should have /usr/include/SDL/SDL_mixer.h | 23:41 |
| GreySim | Wait, wrong error. One moment please. | 23:41 |
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| GreySim | Unable to download. Package not found. | 23:43 |
| pupnik | where did you see that error | 23:44 |
| unique312 | ?? | 23:44 |
| GreySim | Also, hurray for word completion. | 23:44 |
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| GreySim | Application manager, when trying to install Xournal. | 23:45 |
| unique311 | pupnik, will you give it a go when you have time? | 23:45 |
| pupnik | compiling... | 23:46 |
| unique311 | cool | 23:46 |
| pupnik | GreySim: do you have 770 or 800? | 23:47 |
| unique311 | my scratchbox must be borked then... | 23:47 |
| GreySim | Before, it was giving me problems about libglade, and somewhere, saw that repository.maemo.org mistral free non-free was supposed to have had it. | 23:47 |
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| GreySim | 770. | 23:47 |
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| ||cw | unfortuantly sometimes repo's go offline | 23:47 |
| GreySim | As in temporarily, or shutting up shop? | 23:49 |
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| ||cw | either | 23:49 |
| pupnik | i never got Xournal installed either | 23:50 |
| cbx33 | grrr | 23:51 |
| pupnik | and maemopad+ that also claims sketching ability didn't work either for me | 23:51 |
| cbx33 | i just re tared up some files and I can't untar them on the N800 | 23:51 |
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| GreySim | Is there a biggest and/or best repository to be working with for the 770? | 23:54 |
| * GreySim might've chosen some poor repositorys to start with. | 23:55 | |
| pupnik | GreySim: i'd contact the porter directly | 23:56 |
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| GreySim | Hmm. Well, thanks all. | 23:58 |
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| pupnik | unique311: can you test super mario war? | 23:58 |
| pupnik | i have an unstable tablet here | 23:59 |
| unique311 | yeah send it | 23:59 |
| unique311 | how did you compile it. | 23:59 |
| unique311 | my scratchbox is definitely screwed | 23:59 |
| pupnik | ./configure && make | 23:59 |
| unique311 | come on.. | 23:59 |
| unique311 | man | 23:59 |
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