IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2007-02-09

nomisbergie: nice. What database do you use?00:00
bergiewww.plazes.com00:00
disqah00:00
disqone could also do that with access point data maybe00:00
disqthere was a symbian app like that. it recorded the cell tower stuff and you could then save places, it would toggle events00:01
disqenable call forwarding when i'm in the office, that kind of thing00:01
bergiedisq: this uses WiFi access points00:01
disqgreat then :)00:02
bergiehttp://beta.plazes.com/help/screencasts.php00:03
matt_cbergie: awesome stuff!00:03
bergienext point is to figure out what to do with the position info00:03
bergiesome ideas:00:03
bergie* Automatically setting system clock to correct timezone00:03
bergie* Opening Maemo Mapper in user's present location00:03
bergie* Opening Maemo Stars in user's present location00:03
bergie* Setting instant messaging status based on location preferences (the "I don't want my clients to call when I'm at home" scenario)00:03
bergie* Populating a "Wikipedia pages near you" feed to RSS reader and Maemo Mapper POI database00:03
bergiefrom our README file ;-)00:03
matt_cbergie: what info is the plazes API basing your location on?00:05
bergieyou actually send a hash of the access point's MAC address to Plazes00:06
disqbergie: is it read/write? can i submit plazes from the tablet? or do i need the pc app?00:06
bergieand if they don't know about the AP you can enter where it is located00:06
bergiedisq: we open the browser to edit form on Plazes.com if the plaze is a new one00:06
bergieno native editor yet ;-)00:06
disqah, ok that's enough. at least on the n80000:07
disq(the 770 is slow as hell after using the n800 for a week now)00:07
bergieyeah... the Plazes site didn't work correctly on 770, but seems to do it with N80000:07
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maddleranyone who installed bootmenu on N800?00:23
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MoRpHeUzcesman: ping =)00:35
MoRpHeUzjust could stream video+audio to n800 using vlc =)00:37
MoRpHeUzencapsulation: ogg, video: theora and audio: vorbis00:38
MoRpHeUz=)00:38
cesmancool!00:40
disqis there a upnp server where we could cut into the transcoding process? ie. i want it to call mencoder with specific params, etc00:42
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MoRpHeUzhhmm00:44
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MoRpHeUzI'm working on making "live" transcoding...but not with an upnp server...00:44
disqi want a bathroombreak-less viewing experience00:44
disqwhere, viewing a tv show / movie, i can pick up my n800 and go get busy, still watching where i left off00:45
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MoRpHeUzdisq: well, I think our solution will solve your problem..=)00:47
disqeverybody in this channel talks like "our" "us" etc. it's becoming hard to figure out who has multiple personalities and who is actually working in a team :P00:48
disq(ok, j/k, n/o)00:49
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MoRpHeUzdisq: haha =)00:51
MoRpHeUzdisq: just check http://gmyth.sf.net . The features that will solve your problem will be commited soon!..00:52
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disqnice00:52
cesmanmultiple personalities, commited?00:53
MoRpHeUzcesman: haha =)00:53
MoRpHeUzhehe..00:53
MoRpHeUzI must check if there really is a team or I'm just crazy ..hehehe =P00:53
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etanooxi say: hello chan01:06
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Lackenhelp01:12
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hubwow01:23
hubYou have 21 other Scratchbox sessions running!01:23
hubhow can that be possible?01:23
tolgamyou just have to launch 22 scratchboxes and close one of them ;)01:24
hubI have only one01:25
hubbut I have 22 users on my regular system01:25
hubis it confusing this?01:25
shackandid you sb_adduser each of them ?01:26
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hubno01:26
hubonly me01:26
hubI mean who outside scratchbox show 2201:27
hubwho inside scratchbox shows nothing01:27
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disqmy scratchbox shows nobody (checking with "w") but i'm logged in01:32
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nomishub: maybe some stray processes from older sessions?01:35
et4chello01:37
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disqbergie: where to put maemoplazer.png? /usr/share/icons/hicolor/?/hildon/01:50
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bergiedisq: no idea, didn't figure out it yet myself either01:55
bergieping me if you do ;-)01:55
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disqtried 26x26 and 48x48 both didn't work. and the icon is 32x3202:03
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etanooxdisq what's the problem?02:09
disqthere's a plazes icon, 32x32 png, and it doesn't how up in the "start menu" (erm.. sorry for the windows reference)02:09
disqs/how/show02:09
etanooxi don't know02:14
disqanybody here working on malomo?02:16
disqfetched/compiled from svn last night, not bad but it's so slow right now02:16
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kkitodisq, malomo? i dont know what it is ;?02:33
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disqthe camera snapshot app02:43
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maddlerdamn... basybox is driving me crazy!03:07
maddlerit keeps assigning $HOME="/home/user" instead of "/media/mmc3/user"!03:07
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koñ04:01
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gpdcrap - my webserver hdd just died04:05
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maddleroAny clue if xchat supports fulldcreen?04:55
maddleroCan't find... and I'd say no....04:56
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Toma-Is there a port of abuse in the works?05:16
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darkstryhey guys05:22
everaldosomeone knows how setup HOST target under scratchbox ?05:22
darkstrydoes the mplayer work for the n800?05:22
darkstry??05:23
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darkstry??05:25
darkstryanyone in here?05:25
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darkstrydoes the mplayer work for the n800?\05:28
disqi think so05:39
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cxmachowdy05:40
* Tak n800 in hand05:54
Takwow - the n800 doesn't have the single-key limitation05:55
disqwhere?05:57
darkstrydoes the mplayer work for the n800?05:58
darkstryi cant download it05:58
darkstryit says wrong version05:58
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shackanis kernel-source-rx-34 2.6.18-osso29 the right source package for bora?06:50
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disqi so hate gtkrc and hildon06:53
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Captain_CapacitoHi, anyone here?07:00
konfoolurking yes07:01
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Captain_Capacitogot a quick question I was hoping someone could answer07:02
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Captain_Capacitocare to give it a shot?07:02
konfoojust ask07:02
Captain_CapacitoOk well, I am trying to install the FM radio app. However, I seem to lack the package "libosso" and I can't seem to figure out how I should go about installing that07:04
* gpd yawns07:04
gpdapt-get install fmradio worked for me07:04
konfoohttp://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationRepositories maybe youre missing a repo07:04
konfoogpd: same..07:04
Captain_Capacitoheh... ok.... now how would I go about getting a command line? :/07:04
gpdI still can't believe it has a radio! :D07:04
konfoogpd: indeed :)07:04
gpdI am an NPR-O-Holic07:05
konfooheh07:05
konfoowould be even better if it had AM07:05
gpdThat USB OTG stuff is also promising07:05
gpdi thought there was a dev post taht it *didn't* have OTG07:05
konfooyeah i saw that as well07:05
konfoohttp://www.marceloeduardo.com/blog/ excellent07:07
konfoowhere is the n800 canola already07:07
JoshTriplettDoes any documentation on the FM radio exist, for aspiring developers of a Free Software fmradio replacement?07:08
[mbm]you'll probably have to rip apart the nokia app07:08
JoshTriplettSigh.07:08
[mbm]if it's just a few ioctls you might be able to do it with strace07:09
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JoshTriplettHaven't looked at the fmradio app yet.07:09
JoshTriplettBut I plan to.07:10
[mbm]had it loaded here.. it was a "wow cool they hid an fm radio in here" and then 5 minutes later I was bored with it07:11
gpdi normally have to carry my fm radio nike player around - not anymore07:11
JoshTriplett[mbm]: I have a few good FM radio stations around here.  And with something other than the Nokia application, perhaps recording off the FM radio might work. :)07:11
[mbm]JoshTriplett: well, the fm radio only works when you have the headphones connected as your antenna07:12
[mbm]otherwise you just get static07:12
JoshTriplett[mbm]: Plus, often the hardware has more capabilities than the software exposes; perhaps it could tune more broadly, for instance.07:12
gpdI live in LA so there are plenty of FM stations07:12
JoshTriplett[mbm]: *the* headphones or *any* headphones?07:12
gpdany headphones07:13
[mbm]well, any headphones07:13
konfoogpd: all spanish :P07:13
gpdkonfoo: si07:13
JoshTriplett[mbm]: Well, I use the headphones most of the time when not at home.07:13
konfoogpd: where i LA are you at07:13
Captain_CapacitoJusted added all those repositories and I still get the same thing :(07:13
gpdWestside baby -- around UCLA07:13
[mbm]I carry the n800 with me but I usually don't carry any cables or accessories07:13
konfooahhh07:13
konfooim in mission viejo07:14
gpdI'll be heading down to SCALE this weekend07:14
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gpdhttp://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale5x/07:15
konfoonod07:16
gpdcesman from this # says he will be on the knoppMyth stand07:17
Takomfg, wtf is up with ancient vim in sbox?!07:17
konfooi dunno if i am going this year07:18
konfooi have been coding 16 hour days for the last 3 weeks almost and i am burned out07:18
konfoothis weekend = vegetate07:18
gpdfair enough07:19
konfooanyone else from here going07:19
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Takgrr - what alsa devices does the n800 have?07:40
Takno plughw:0,0 ...07:40
kulveuse default07:44
kulvebut it's just a software hack, afaik.07:44
Takhm07:45
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Taknice, thanks07:46
disqcpu transparency looks interesting07:49
disqthough i prefer using the full maemo environment (ie. install one deb, then scp the binaries with each new build)07:50
kulvebut you need cpu transp. to compile those binaries07:52
kulvecompiling one .c can be done by just crosscompiling, but e.g. configure runs all kinds of tests that requires cpu transparency to be able to run arm binaries07:53
kulveconfigure e.g. compiles a binary and tests that it can run it07:53
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[mbm]that's just lazy people not writing configure scripts correctly07:54
kulve[mbm]: wrong07:54
kulveit's normal behaviour for configure to do those07:54
kulveunless you explicitly crosscompile stuff, but that's painful07:54
[mbm]I know it's "normal" to see that but it's the wrong behavior07:54
disqcrosscompiling works for me, always worked for me07:55
kulvedisq: heh, try crosscompiling e.g. perl07:55
disqif it doesn't crosscompile then obviously the sdk has problems07:55
[mbm]I mean the configure script should accept the --build and --target options and use the correct compiler07:55
[mbm]and I've lost track of how many packages didn't even do that correctly07:56
tkohow do you crosscompile something that builds a C file which generates something required during the build time?07:57
tkoonly yesterday I heard you can't even "just compile" X07:57
disqah, good tko is here :)07:57
tkoonly a few minutes07:58
disqtko, do you know who designed the current sapwood themes? wish i could put a bounty on their head.. what's with the gutters in HildonWindow, grrr07:58
[mbm]tko: like I said, you set the configure options so that those helper scripts it compiles are compiled for the cpu you're building on and not that of the target07:58
disqi was able to reduce the left border but can't do that with the right one without screwing up the theme (since images are left-aligned)07:59
[mbm]usually you can get away with: CC=arm-whatever-gcc; HOSTCC=gcc08:00
[mbm]export those into the environment and run configure08:00
kulveit's easy to crosscompile e.g. kernel, because it's meant to be crosscompiled. But SB allows as to just pretend we are doing native compililation and compile about any package08:00
[mbm]kulve: yeah I know, and imho it's lazy08:00
kulve[mbm]: but then you can't run any binaries. You can't test anything. And the testing it's reason of configure08:01
kulve[mbm]: hah08:01
[mbm]you're not running the damn binaries on the target platform08:01
[mbm]so it's somewhat pointless08:01
kulvego on, and try cross compiling the thousands of packages in debian..08:01
kulve[mbm]: it depends08:01
[mbm]kulve: just an fyi, openwrt.org - we cross compile tons of shit08:01
[mbm]and yes, we even do perl08:02
kulveif you are using qemu as cpu transp, you are emulating stuff. If you use sbrshd, then you are actually running those on the target hw08:02
kulveI'm off08:03
* [mbm] finds the whole configure scheme pretty ugly, have you ever actually read through a configure script? autogenerated mess08:04
kulvebut I'm not going to change all packages I need. There are just too many of them. That's why I use SB08:04
tkodisq, can't tell you that, but you're not the first one to notice that08:04
kulvenow I'm really off08:04
[mbm]kulve: and that's why you're lazy :)08:04
tkodisq, the resistance group is working on removing or minimizing that :)08:05
* [mbm] actually does patch the configure scripts08:05
disqlol08:05
tkotigert is the point man there :)08:05
disqi wonder if i could tell sapwood to right align the images08:05
tigertmorning08:06
tkohuh?08:06
disqright border is still 24px right now, i could reduce it to 8px but it looks messed up since they're rendered left to right08:06
disqmorning tigert :)08:07
tigertyea. i was thinking 12px or 808:07
tkodisq, oh, you'd also need to touch the bitmap to match the (minimum) dimensions08:07
tkoI haven't yet figure out how should one draw a 3x3 collection of bitmaps when the target area is smaller than any of the individual squares08:08
disqwell.. just changing ::borders worked for the left side. it just doesn't render the extra part (and it's supposed to strech, but doesn't, yeah)08:08
tigertluckily it is themeable, so i am trying to do a -layout- package and fix the plankton in a "fork" to find thee correct spacing.08:08
tigertbut this can luckily be done with only theme changes08:09
tigertso you can fix it by cropping the image as well08:10
disqi mean, if i can do it for the left side, it could also work for the right side. i'm not interested in providing new pngs and all that, just removing the gutters in maemopadplus :)08:10
tigertyeah. it would fix the thing for all apps.08:11
disqtigert: ''style "osso-window-background" { HildonWindow::borders = { 8, 24, 0, 24 } }'' works ok, doesn't stretch the left border but crops it08:11
tkoit's a bit involved how the drawing is done...08:11
tigertbut i am trying to fix this first in plankton. the area is there for legacy reasons, it was used in te os2006 themes more, but now its mostly white anyway, so i think it needs to go.08:12
tkodisq, what are the borders for the right side window graphics?08:12
tigertyea, the right side bitmap must be fixed too to make it work08:13
disqtko: qgn_plat_application_frame_right.png?08:13
tkodisq, can't recall, but sounds right and you seemed to be looking at the gtkrc already :)08:14
tkoI'm wondering why it is left-aligned as the painting logic should in theory allow right aligning08:14
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tigertnow that we have the automated theme tool, we could sometime axe out the qgn_plat_ :)08:14
disqi was actively changing maemopadplus.rc via ssh and restarting maemopadplus on the device repeatedly, just about an hour ago08:14
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tkoIIRC storing the image filenames is the biggest memory consumer in the theme engine :)08:15
tigerttko, the bitmap should be exact size anyway08:15
tkotigert, true, but given the amount of white it just might work if it were right aligned08:16
disqyeah08:16
tigertheh, compressed names.. :) WNBGRGH~.PNG08:16
tigert;)08:16
tkonaw.. 1.png, 2.png, ... :)08:17
disqwhy, since you now have the automated theme tool, just make them 2 character names. 00 thru ff would suffice :p08:17
tigertheh. hashof8chars.png :)08:17
disqand ditch that .png too maybe08:17
tkobarely :)08:17
tkohmm, using all the alphabet doesn't get you below two characters so not much saving..08:18
disq00 thru FF then? case sensitive :P08:19
tkoI was thinking 00..ZZ08:19
tkocase sensitive08:19
disqhmm.. yeah okay better08:19
tigertmaybe we are drifting here slightly? :)08:19
* disq recalls UMSDOS08:19
tkoimpossible :)08:20
[mbm]echo filename | md5sum -08:20
[mbm]:)08:20
tkohmm, good thing I double checked the bus schedule. would've missed my bus had I left at the time I was thinking08:20
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suihkulokkigtk theme obfuscator..08:20
disqbtw, did you guys take a peek at apple's newton developer pdf? sean posted the link on the list, it's really interesting stuff08:20
tigerti am in the bus already08:20
tigertits full of kindergarten kids =)08:21
disqhttp://www.unna.org/unna/apple/documentation/developer/ProgrammersGuideOS2.0.pdf (soo much off topic)08:21
disqbtw since you're both on the bus.. there's a new xchat build for n80008:22
tkooh, I'm not yet. and I don't even have IRC on n800 :-]08:23
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tigertyea.i use ssh + irssi ;)08:24
tkooops. got to run08:24
disqokay :)08:24
tigertit works awesomely well with inz's xterm08:24
[mbm]ssh + screen + irssi / mutt08:24
disqmmm i should check out that xterm, the default font really sucks08:25
[mbm]I can usually switch between mutt and irssi a few times before people notice the difference08:25
[mbm](must be the blue status bars)08:26
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tigertyeah08:27
disqdo you know which wire is connected to the fmradio chip? ground?08:27
tigertinz xterm installs btstream vera and it rox0rz08:28
disqyeah it rox0rz my 770 already08:28
[mbm]disq: think it's using the headphone ground pin as the antenna08:28
disqi'll get a bare 3.5mm jack and solder a tiny wire there08:29
disqit's getting messy with the long headphone cord08:29
[mbm]what would be interesting is if the fmradio could give you a signal strength08:29
disqi wish the chip had rds but doesn't08:30
[mbm]hmm htat'd be fun08:30
tigerti wonder how wide freq band it has08:32
disqwhy don't they use dsp chips/software for this kind of things anyway? make it a dual dsp device, so what08:33
[mbm]at least 87.5-108 Mhz08:33
disq[mbm]: wow. that's really wide :P08:33
[mbm]well that's the fm spectrum08:34
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tigertah right08:34
tigertthat blackberry-like keypad08:34
[mbm]I'm somewhat curous what stage of the dsp the fmradio is hooked into08:35
tigertoops, wrong channel08:35
tigert(friend has a new eseries phone)08:35
[mbm]can the radio be recorded from the n800?08:36
[mbm]if so then you get to abuse it for some basic sampling of fm data08:36
disq(i don't believe in smartphones. i do believe in geek jackets that provide PAN though)08:36
[mbm]haha08:36
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tigertmy friend likes his e6108:37
disqmmm.. n97?08:37
suihkulokki[mbm]: I guess FM radio isn't connected to a any ad-converter, it just converts radiowaves to sound08:37
tigertbut he is in japan, so the n800 wouldnt probably fit the same subay car with him :)08:37
disqmmm.. japan is good. (because they have 14 wifi channels instead of 11/13)08:38
[mbm]suihkulokki: well, they obviously put it through the mux and amp stages.. just curious if they hooked before that08:38
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[mbm](btw the headphone/speaker toggle on the fm radio app can be used as a global toggle)08:39
disqshortcuts in xterm? wow, that rocks08:40
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disqa few months (a year?) ago i did that with hardware macros but that's so much better08:40
tigertyes.08:40
tigerti need to make the toolbar pretty still08:40
tigertthose are defined in gconf btw08:41
tigertso you can tailor them to your taste08:41
[mbm]there's a few glitches with the toolbar and the highlights whe you click the buttons08:41
[mbm]occasionally the highlight isn't under the button08:41
disqmake my toolbar pretty. i'll add more node types (check list, doubly checked check list, outline and maybe vectorsketch) need to design a new create new node dialog08:41
tigertyes. the problem is08:41
tigertthe toolbar has no vertical style defined08:41
disqyeah that's weird08:42
[mbm]disq: as for shortcuts, a better trick is the handwriting input mode .. you can program shortcut phrases where an odd squiggle is transformed into an 80 character ssh commandline08:42
disqtigert: gtk_rc_parse(PIXMAPDIR "/maemopadplus.rc"); works for me btw. just before widget_show_all08:42
tigertit just assumes certain button height and it borks on vertical08:42
tigertdisq, yeah08:43
disqtigert: ie. make a new gtkrc (just the modifications) and.. well you know08:43
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[mbm]hmm I need to find a nice travel bluetooth keyboard08:45
tigertthnks for the line though08:46
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gpd[mbm]: did you look at the think outside sierra - i have one08:48
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[mbm]gpd: used some of those before and they just feel flimsy08:51
disqbtw i'm wondering why they didn't just make another layer on the pcb for the fm reception.. interference with wifi/bt?08:51
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[mbm]the headphones as antenna is a pretty common trick08:51
disqit is08:52
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konfooi wonder at what level the transport is available to the os layer08:55
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[mbm]hmm just using the VIDIOC_G_TUNER ioctls08:57
[mbm]should be compatible with v4l08:58
disqif somebody's wondering: home/end for osso-xterm is KP_Home / KP_End08:58
nelson[mbm]: I have to point you at http://blog.russnelson.com/chordite08:58
disq(just like quake apparently)08:58
[mbm]nelson: slow site08:59
nelsonyeah, I never set up static pages for it.08:59
[mbm]hmm interesting twiddler09:00
konfooit would be interesting if the subcarrier for rds were exposed09:00
nelsonkonfoo: you must be european!09:00
nelsoncuz most people in the USA have never heard of RDS.09:00
konfoonelson: no, usa :)09:00
konfoonelson: its what i do for a living (satellite mostly)09:01
nelsonAha!  I knew it!  Was just going to speculate as much.09:01
konfooheh09:01
[mbm]http://v4l2spec.bytesex.org/spec/r10087.htm .. that should be the api the nokia app uses09:01
nelsonRDS is the Gobi Desert of radio services in the USA.09:02
konfooi tried for a long time to push rds at FEMA for emergency services09:02
konfoobut they are knuckleheads09:02
nelsonYep.09:03
[mbm]heh, I love obscure/archane data formats .. always fun to see what data gets sent09:03
nelsonRDS would be great for a lot of things, but .....09:03
disq(yay for rds talk)09:03
konfoooh rds is a ton of bandwidth09:03
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konfoounfortunately its not used or used for junk.. or the local fm station has some ancient rds box that inserts a song title and that's it09:04
konfooa pity really09:04
disqthe nxp chip specs say it doesn't support rds. it might be filtering the data too. but if it doesn't do that, is it possible to process it with the dsp?09:04
konfoothe rds subcarrier is 115kbits or so09:05
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konfooyou just have to write a section demuxer09:05
konfooif there isnt something already out there09:05
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konfoohttp://v4l2spec.bytesex.org/spec/x6081.htm there we go09:08
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konfooi bet 20 bux the read() for rds returns a null on this thing09:10
[mbm]hmm don't think there are any stations using rds near me or I'd check09:11
konfoothere are a bunch here in LA using it09:11
[mbm]-EINVAL trying to read from /dev/radio009:12
konfooThe modules for the main video chips (bttv, saa7134...) have to be modified to load and use the RDS decoder module. This has only been done for bttv so far. With a bttv card that has a SAA6588, you can read raw RDS data via /dev/radio after loading the saa6588 kernel module. For the moment, saa6588 is not requested automatically by bttv, you have to modprobe it manually.09:12
disqwe know the chip doesn't support rds. so it's either still encoded in the audio (?) or stripped09:14
[mbm]ah, good point. no rds09:14
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[mbm]doubt that the radio is hooked to a dsp input for sampling09:15
konfoothe v4l2 wiki says all decoding done in userland space09:15
[mbm]konfoo: that's after you get the raw data09:15
konfooyes09:15
[mbm]no raw rds data to decode09:15
[mbm]:/09:15
konfoonod, SOL09:16
[mbm]ok, listening to radio is boring as hell.. what else could be done with the chip09:17
konfooheh09:17
[mbm]if we could get signal strength we could use it to home in on low poer fm transmitters09:17
konfooif you had rds you could record those shows automagically :)09:17
[mbm]my interest in the dsp input is not for recording crappy radio shows; I'm thinking one way data transmissions09:18
disqi haven't seen any fm radio that reports signal strength. i don't think that term exists in receiver manufacturerland :P09:18
[mbm]disq: true, tends to be 'carrier/no carrier'09:19
konfooprobably because of the insane multipath09:19
[mbm]wonder what the chances are that I could transmit a few bits in square waves and decode them on the n80009:20
konfoois that radio device limited to 85-108 i wonder09:20
konfooif u can hit 162 you can pick up noaa weather radio09:21
konfoowhat else is there09:21
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konfooEMWIN data in some cities09:21
[mbm]hmm.. where's that datasheet?09:21
disqnxp.. lemme find09:22
disqhttp://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/literature/9397/75015439.pdf09:22
disqi didn't double check the chip name/model, that's the link in maemo-dev (lazy, yeah)09:23
[mbm]bah, that's a marketing paper09:23
[mbm]I want the technical09:23
konfoohttp://www.weather.gov/emwin/zerx96a.htm09:23
konfooand http://www.weather.gov/emwin/winbca.htm09:24
[mbm]disq: TEA5761UK09:25
disq"The FM stereo radio function, which is a next-generation09:25
disqversion of the TEA5761"09:25
disqso nextgen = smaller?09:25
konfooword09:25
konfooaha09:26
[mbm]http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4589 .. has all the chips09:26
konfoothere is a specific model of the 5764 that has rds09:26
konfoowhich looks to be a variation of the 576109:27
[mbm]trying to find the chip in the picture to id it09:27
konfooThe TEA5761 FM radio and the TEA5764 FM radio plus radio-data-system (RDS) are offered as the smallest and most integrated such solutions for mobile phones. Occupying just 50 mm2 of pc-board area (one-third the footprint of previous parts), the TEA5761 requires only 14 external components while consuming just 11 mA.09:27
konfooRequiring only 22 external components, the TEA5764 covers a total area of only 70 mm2 and has a current consumption of 13 mA. Housed in WL-CSP packages, both devices feature a clock frequency of 32.768 kHz and an I2C interface.09:27
ab[mbm]: TEA5761UK supports level detector (aka signal strength) and able to report it via i2c09:27
[mbm]upper left of the picture09:28
[mbm]TEA5761UK-CG528709:28
[mbm]ab: hmm interesting09:28
absee table 1909:29
[mbm]http://www.nxp.com/acrobat/datasheets/TEA5761UK_1.pdf09:30
disqnice09:30
[mbm]konfoo: 76-10809:30
[mbm](MHz)09:30
ab[mbm]: this is on page 2409:30
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konfoooh for jap09:31
konfooahh an easter egg bug with limitations. drat.09:31
[mbm]haha09:31
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konfoohttp://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.pdf always handy09:33
[mbm]ab: table 10, bit 3 .. continuous rssi check09:33
abthis is just a flag09:34
[mbm]sure, but that implies that it's a one time sample otherwise09:34
abwhile #19 describes 4 bit level measure09:34
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konfoosomeone really needs to make a 3.5mm L-jack with 10cmx2.5mm antenna for the n800 now09:38
konfoowould make a nice desktop radio if nothing else :)09:38
keesjno location based stuff?09:38
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disqanybody have code to read touchscreen pressure data from gdk/gtk? i don't really feel like adapting a bunch of x11 code09:45
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ab[mbm]: radio-tea5761.c doesn't read from LEVCHK/IFCHK10:06
ab[mbm]: it is of course possible to do so (I think) and someone need to extend tea5761_do_ioctl() to support it10:07
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ab[mbm]: the issue here is that v4l2 has no ioctl which corresponds to this, so some other ioctl could be 'hijacked' by providing this value. May be VIDIOC_G_PARM could help here, it has V4L2_BUF_TYPE_PRIVATE for driver specific info10:15
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[mbm]ab: actually it does, it's on the VIDIO_G_TUNER ioctl, there's a 32bit signal10:18
TFyregood morning to everyone :) does anyone know how i would be able to use garmin/polish gps maps with maemo-mapper?10:19
TFyreive been having some fun with GPSMapEdit from geopainting.com but it generates bmp files and thats waaaayyy to big even after compressing to jpg (like 1.6 TB)10:19
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ab[mbm]: ah, right. It spreads those 4 bits across 15-bits10:26
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AkatemikAny idea where the learnt words for the virtual keyboard are stored?10:28
[mbm]dunno .. I'd like a blacklist so it stops learning passwords via xterm10:29
AkatemikI'd like to see if it's able to quick teach words and to remove annoying, never used old ones10:29
kulveAkatemik: (home/user/.osso/hildon-input-method10:29
kulves,(,/,10:29
Akatemik[mbm]: That too, although it won't learn anything new10:29
Akatemikkulve: Thanks10:29
Akatemik[mbm]: Using public-keys now10:29
kulvebut it may be hard to do anything for single words..10:29
AkatemikOk... what format is that?10:30
kulvedunno.. :/10:30
[mbm]hmm .. 'ART LIBRARY VER 2.0' on that hwr.lib10:32
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disqdpkg-buildpackage stripped my Maemo-Icon-26?10:33
disqahh..XB-10:35
keesjdisq: Yes something simliar happend to me when creating a repository10:35
Akatemikkulve: Google said that hwr.lib is for handwriting. Are you sure it also stores the words?10:36
kulveno10:36
kulvethat's hwr, not words10:36
AkatemikOk, so then it isn't what I'm looking for10:36
kulve.personal.dictionary and .used.dictionary10:37
AkatemikAh, hidden files...10:37
AkatemikI kinda presumed that since .osso is hidden, it's contents wouldn't be. Dumb me10:37
kulveyeah, never assume anything on those devices :)10:38
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AkatemikHmm... it's still a bit odd format. I guess because it also remembers that some words occur more often after certain words (like -client after dropbear)10:38
keesjI would be great to have pluggable  completion for programming or using the xterm10:39
kulveAkatemik: I don't have clue about the format. I just deleted them, which ofc is not always a good solution..10:39
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AkatemikAlso would be nice to have a tool that would disable the preview/learning of the keyboard, for entering passwords inside xterm10:42
AkatemikUsing public keys to connect from 770 to elsewhere covers most cases, but you still might want to use sudo on the remote host10:43
kulvetools->setting->word completion10:43
kulvefrom the keyboard menu10:43
AkatemikIt also never stores them, with that disabled?10:44
kulveI think it doesn't, but I'm not sure10:44
kulveI always disable it while entering the passwd and I think it doesn't store them then10:45
AkatemikWell, let's enter the same word ten times and see if it get's to the .dictionaries :)10:45
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AkatemikHmm, doesn't seem to learn10:47
AkatemikAlthough now that I tested the learning ability, even learned words don't appear in the dictionary10:47
Akatemik(or the word I just taught it, there's a bunch of old words there, sure)10:48
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Juhazmaybe xterm could ask for password input mode from the vkb when it's been told to not echo..10:53
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disqman the 770 is annoyingly slow. or maybe it's the insensitive touchscreen (yeah, gotta get it fixed)10:55
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JaffaMorning, all11:03
disqmorning11:04
keesjHi11:06
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AkatemikMmh, is ther libconic for maemo < 3.0?11:12
Akatemikthere, even11:12
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darkstryanyone here?11:14
darkstryor alive?11:14
darkstrylol11:14
partdarkstry: no11:14
darkstrylol11:14
darkstrycan u answer me a quetsion11:14
partno11:14
darkstrylol why not11:15
disqdepends11:15
partplease learn to spell first11:15
darkstrydoes the mplayer work on the nokia n800?11:15
darkstryi cant seem to install it for some reason11:15
darkstryit says incompatible version11:15
Guardianmorning maemo11:16
darkstry?11:16
disqdarkstry: probably the wrong repository?11:16
darkstrycan u tell me which one it is?11:17
darkstrybecuase it really doesnt say11:17
darkstryi just go on the website on my tablet... and click the install button11:17
disqdarkstry: answer - http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=34027#post3402711:17
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disqwhoa mplayer comes with gmplauncher now? good11:18
disq(just installed)11:18
konttoridisq: even on N800 it works better than default player. although not as much as it did on 770.11:19
disqyuv to rgb thingy still unresolved?11:19
alphas anyone played with /tmp/bme-dbus-socket?11:19
disqwow malomo comes with a (example) help file. that's unheard of :)11:22
Jaffamalomo?11:25
disqthe cam app. still in svn though11:25
polac_https://garage.maemo.org/projects/malomo/11:25
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nomismoin. Can someone tell me where to get the N800 stock firmware image?11:25
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disqi thought it didn't work. then today i found my photos sitting on the toilet in MyDocs11:26
jonekmorning11:26
partnomis: http://www.maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N80011:26
nomispart: thanks.11:27
dwddisq: Your toilet has a MyDocs?11:30
disq(it also has a /media/mmc1 :P )11:30
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disqwonder if i should solder my iriver earbuds to the nokia headphones11:33
darkstrythanks disq11:36
Guardiani just powered up my N800 for the first time this morning11:36
Guardiani installed fmradio from application manager11:36
Guardiani don't have any icon anywhere to launch it though, what did i miss ? :)11:36
darkstrydid anyone install quetoo?11:36
darkstryguardian, i ask the same qustion11:37
darkstryi have that installed too11:37
darkstrybut no other shit11:37
darkstryno icon to click on11:37
disqyou guys missed the home applet11:37
disqdarkstry: home-select applets-select fm radio from there11:37
darkstryhome applet?11:38
Guardiana right11:38
Guardianthx11:38
disqor you could alternatively open xterm and run "fmradio"11:38
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Guardiandoes it require headphones as antenna ?11:40
disqyeah11:40
disqbut you can choose between speakers and headphones as output, from the actual app11:40
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darkstrythe radio not picking up channel11:42
disqplug in headphones.11:42
Guardianit's nice11:43
Guardianfor additional apps, need to add downloads.maemo.org repo in the application maanger ?11:43
darkstrywierd11:44
disqGuardian: http://www.maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationRepositories11:44
Guardianthank you11:45
darkstrydoes quetoo work?11:47
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disqno idea11:51
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* pahartik fails to find "°" from Nokia 770 keyboard11:55
darkstryhmm11:56
tigertthe radio app should really have a .desktop entry for menu launching11:56
tigertanyone want to do a package that adds it? ;)11:57
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disqthat's too much debian for too little benefit :P11:59
disqwhat bugs me is that the different widths of the net radio applet and the fm radio applet12:00
disqand they don't support the new resizing api either12:00
dwddisq: You could potentially force the issue, by editing the desktop file, couldn't you?12:01
disqi looked for a way to hook the headset's "answer call" button, both with dbus-monitor and in /sys, came up with nothing12:01
disqthere's a layout file in .osso somewhere lemme check12:02
dwddisq: Hummm... You sure the headset button isn12:02
dwdFeh. isn't mapped to a keyboard button?12:02
disqthe device recognizes it, brightens/turns on the screen12:02
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disq..when i squeeze the button12:03
disqmaybe it is.. hmmm12:03
dwdYou could write (or find/port) a little app that prints out keypress values.12:04
nomisflashing the N800 really is fast.12:05
inzI've made a xev package once12:05
nomis6MB/sec.12:05
inzI guess it's in maemo-hackers mistral repo12:05
disqthe only use for that button for me would be, if somebody writes a open source radio app, i will send a patch to control the radio (next/prev preset, even maybe stop/play) but that's all12:05
disq(or an alternate vkb method that implements morse code?)12:06
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dwdnomis: Okay, if you're benchmarking the flasher, you must be really bored.12:07
Guardianhttp://www.dailymotion.com/cluster/fun/video/x11yc7_robot-libido :)12:07
Guardianalso, i tried to browse this url with the n80012:07
Guardianand the video replay was jerky12:07
Guardianthe flash video was preloaded entirely though12:07
nomisdwd: actually it prints out the throughput while flashing  :)12:08
disqyep.. editing ~/.osso/hildon-home/applet_manager.conf works12:08
nomis(and I am flashing the N800 to return it  :-(12:08
dwdnomis: Oh?12:08
nomisdwd: defective camera switch.12:08
dwdnomis: Ah.12:08
nomisand yes, this sucks a lot.12:09
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disqwhat's the headset button called btw?12:10
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dwddisq: George.12:10
disqg.e.o.r.g.e?12:11
dwddisq: No, just George. The power button's called Robert, but you can call it Bob if you get to know it well.12:12
inzDoes the power button have man-boobs?12:14
dwdThat's Mr Power Button to you.12:14
inzCocky, are we ;)12:15
inzAnd no, that's not Mr. Cocky to me.12:16
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tigerthehe12:34
|tbb|_wow,autoscan on the n80012:35
tigerton the radio?12:35
|tbb|_no no, thats a network scanner12:36
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tigertah ok12:40
X-Fadetigert: Can you share your vision on maemo2midgard for the frontpage? I just replied to Ferencs mail.12:41
tigerti am away from mail today, but something like rubyonrails.org would be nice12:43
tigerta nice showcase of few facts and pointers to important things12:43
X-FadeI like the news and planet columns in this mockup: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/LooknFeel#head-30d0cfc061c13dfe0c7fbb19cefaaf724502ef4f12:44
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keesjsKaBoy: are you there?12:50
sKaBoykeesj, yep12:50
keesjI hope you don't find it all to anoying :p12:50
keesjwe are still searching for the best solution,12:51
sKaBoykeesj, nah, no problem! it's better to do a good port than a semi-working one!12:51
keesjsKaBoy: it's more about how we will handle things in the future,(and how we automate this :p)12:52
sKaBoykeesj, and it would be a good example for future packages..12:52
sKaBoyright!12:52
keesjwe also need guidelines for patching rules and control, why have a depends and build-depends and configure add if you still wil end up patching the files12:53
disqhmm.. i'm assuming this is mud talk12:55
keesjI am not a great patch guru , but it is already is two complicated for me if I would like to change something12:55
keesjdisq: you do mind?12:55
disqon the contrary12:55
keesjalright :p12:55
disq:)12:55
JaffaAuto-revert of build-changed files (whether by mud or dpkg-buildpackage) is on the TODO.12:56
Guardiancan the n770 or n800 be used as a gps ?12:59
Guardian(it may be a dumb question :/ )13:00
keesjsKaBoy sent a mud with that actualy does two patches from wich one is downloaded from the web. it is pretty clean if you know the patch will be sent to the upstream maintainer. but perhaps it makes things just a little to complicated, we would at least need to put the file somewhere in svn13:00
keesjGuardian: it can use gps but there is no gps hardware in it13:00
keesjGuardian: perhaps there are some nice tricks that can be done using known hotspots , or using a tool like gnokii to get the signal information from a cell phone13:01
Guardiankeesj: yeah i came accross http://www.amazegps.com/welcome.php few days ago13:02
keesjdisq: sorry for my ignorance did you look at mud yet?13:02
Guardiankeesj: but afaik it's rather expensive and you also need additional positioning module13:03
disqkeesj :) i'm the guy who's trying to compile libsqlite313:04
keesjGuardian: did you read the smart2go anouncement ?13:04
keesjdisq: ok :)13:05
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keesjI am goind to try to make a dsl based qemu maemo image to automate the mud building , so we can start from a clean enviroment every time.13:07
disqmmm... now interestingly mud refuses to start building libreadline4 "Couldn't find extract directory!, build.pm line 79"13:07
keesjJaffa: I would like to know what your feelings are about the two patch thing.13:07
sKaBoykeesj, sorry, i'm at work.. have you had time to contact gpe maintainers?13:08
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Jaffakeesj: downloading patches which are necessary for proper building is not good: no reliance on it always being there. If the patch in question is also headed upstream, then we've got two options: duplicate it in patch/$PACKAGE and sort out the diff when the patch makes it upstream, 2) make it so patch/$PACKAGE and patch/$PACKAGE.<n> get applied (with <n> giving an order)13:10
disqjust checked, building libsqlite3 still seems to work13:10
sKaBoyJaffa, keesj, i'm with (2). or do a patch/$PACKAGE/000-file.patch, .../001-file2.patch and so on.. like debian packages13:12
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keesjJaffa: and the last patch will be the mud diff patch?13:14
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inzhint to debian/ubuntu laptop and scratchbox users: sudo sh -c 'echo -e "#!/bin/sh\ncp /etc/resolv.conf /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf" > /etc/network/if-up.d/scratchbox; chmod a+x /etc/network/if-up.d/scratchbox'13:14
inz(wondered for a longish time yesterday, why my apt-get in scratchbox didn't work at school, while it worked well at home and at work)13:15
inz((tuned out, that the dns server had the same address at work and at home))13:15
disqhaving a static resolve.conf it works for me :p13:16
mgedmindnsmasq might be easier13:16
inzYeah, that should work too13:16
inzI think I need to setup some smtp proxy too13:16
inzSome stupidass networks block outgoing 2513:16
disqbtw inz, have i mentioned how much your new xterm toolbar rocks? thanks.13:16
inzdisq, not sure, but thanks anyway =)13:17
JaffasKaBoy: agreed, although I'm loathe to re-invent the whole of Debian for something which is supposed to be simpler ;-)13:17
mgedmingiven the number of wormy windows machines on the net, I think it's very neighbourly of ISPs to block outgoing port 2513:17
Jaffakeesj: err, if you have both? Not sure whether patch/$PACKAGE should be considered as patch/$PACKAGE.0 or patch/$PACKAGE.$MAXINT13:18
inzmgedmin, well, granted, it's not that bad practice, but it gets frustrating to change the outgoing smtp all the time13:18
disqi configured it as pgup/pgdn/home/end/tab/esc/enter (yeah, i'm a mc freak)13:18
mgedmininz: true13:18
Guardiankeesj: no gonna google for it13:18
mgedminfor roaming I use authenticated smtp over ssl to my work server13:18
keesjJaffa: also I don't know how to revert changes can you help me with that?13:18
mgedminport 465 is usually not blocked13:19
inzmgedmin, yeah, I guess I could make my smtp use ssl, currently it only does tls13:19
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sKaBoyJaffa, well you can call dpatch directly :)13:19
mgedmininz: very true, the xterm keybar is the best thing ever13:19
dwdinz: Port 587 shouldn';t be blocked, and should be used for submission of new mail.13:19
mgedmininz: or perhaps I use tls over port 2525, I don't exactly remember :)13:19
inzmgedmin, =)13:20
mgedmin587 is something new to me13:20
dwdinz: Port 25 should be only for s2s, these days.13:20
mgedminI tried to read that rfc once, I think13:20
mgedminbut fell asleep13:20
mgedminso I don't know why13:20
* inz checks if his postfix listens on 587...13:21
dwdmgedmin: It's one of Randy Gellens's, his are usually pretty readable.13:21
mgedminI was tired :)13:21
inznope...13:21
dwdinz: Probably not by default. Want the config?13:21
mgedminnot right now, I should be working...13:21
JaffasKaBoy: good point13:22
dwdinz: Actually, if you've ommented out bits in /etc/postfix/master.cf about submission, you could just turn those on.13:23
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suihkulokkiinz: that's RFC 2476, and it's precisely the port/rfc for your use case13:24
dwdsuihkulokki: That's the old one, I think it's been updated since then.13:24
inzdwd, there seems to be commented out line there for submission...13:25
dwdinz: In the copy I have, that enforces TLS, which you might not want.13:25
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inzdwd, that would actually be good...13:27
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inzdwd, but I guess I can live with this, I guess no one else is using that, but me ;)13:27
inzdwd, and I do remember to put the TLS tap to the right place ;)13:28
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dwdinz: As long as all your clients support STARTTLS in a sane way, you should be fine.13:29
inzdwd, I'd guess thunderbird can do that13:29
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Guardianis there a way to ask for a password before hildon starts ?13:39
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Guardianprolly like gdm logon13:39
neostriderhello friends13:40
neostriderare are thing going on maemo land?13:40
inzGuardian, you can enable device lock, so it asks for the lock code13:40
dwdinz: Probably. Or you could use Polymer, of course, thus incidentally configuring Telomer too.13:40
Guardianinz: i was also wondering about a "sign to unlock device" module but i guess there is not proper api to plug that13:41
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inzdwd, i guess I'll stick to thunderird (s are go) for now... ;)13:45
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neostriderkkito: good morning! how are things going on Q2?13:57
kkitoneostrider, hello :) if you want i can make a package13:58
neostridergreat!13:59
neostrider(im using scirocco)13:59
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disqha! hit a bug in gtkextensionevents13:59
kkitoneostrider, i have only a n800, then i will make a bora package14:00
neostriderhey14:00
neostriderbut would be unplayable on the 770,right?14:00
kkitoif you want i can share the sources too14:00
neostrideror you wanna test it? heheh14:00
kkitoneostrider, i dont know :/14:00
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neostridercan you just pack the source14:01
neostriderI can try to build it here14:01
neostriderim still using the mistral SDK (and it is doing fine)14:02
neostriderthe sources would be very welcome14:03
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inzwhee, got dpkg-repack to work on n800 =)14:10
Jaffadpkg-repack?14:10
inzJaffa, makes .debs from installed packages14:11
JaffaOh, the "build a deb from the installed package" thingy?14:11
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JaffaYeah, I remember :)14:11
JaffaNever tried it, how useful is it?14:11
inzJaffa, not very ;)14:11
inzJaffa, as it naturally cannot generate the -dev packages...14:12
Veggenthe lack of source packages are a nuicance in itself, btw.14:13
VeggenPeople should be whacked. Thoroughly :)14:14
inzI don't understand why, for example, osso-clock and osso-clock-widget aren't open source14:14
parta proprietary clock sounds dumb14:15
Jaffainz: My guess is that anything Nokia wrote themselves entirely from scratch isn't open source; anything which modified an existing open source product (email, RSS, calculator) is OSS.14:15
JaffaAlthough it's somewhat ironic that the "osso" name is used on closed source components.14:16
partjaffa: what closed components use "osso"?14:16
inzJaffa, alarmd is entirely nokia and is oss ;)14:16
inzpart, osso-sketch, osso-notes...14:16
Jaffapart: osso-clock, as already mentioned.14:17
inzIf you do dpkg -l 'osso-*' you get quite a list of packages14:17
Jaffainz: ah, damnit - another fine theory ruined. What about entirely Nokia-produced *GUI* applications?14:17
inzout of maybe ~10 are open14:17
inzJaffa, that sounds more likely ;)14:18
inzGrr, the source for alarmd 0.4.2 is still not released14:18
partjaffa: ah, that's true. that's dumb too, but I guess "osso" doesn't equal open14:18
bergieguys, anybody know if the Maemo clock has any DBUS services? We could tell it to switch timezones (or set the "remote location") based on where the device is positioned in Plazes14:19
* Jaffa 's never seen a Plazes hotspot AFAIK, where's it prevalent?14:20
mgedmintoday my panel-clock stopped at 10:56 and showed that time for about 1.5 hours14:20
mgedminI was a bit late for work as a result :)14:20
bergieJaffa: any WiFi spot can be registered to Plazes14:20
Jaffabergie: ah, I see.14:20
bergieJaffa: Plazes is just a database of position info per access point MAC address14:20
inzbergie, it has gconf keys, and uses the standard /etc/localtime14:21
bergieinz: ok14:21
* bergie has to investigate that then14:21
inzbergie, and there's osso_time_set, which should be called after the timezone has been changed14:22
bergieinz: the big question is whether we want to actually switch timezone of the device, or just set the remote location14:28
inzbergie, setting the remote location does pretty much nothing afaik14:29
bergietrue14:29
bergiemaybe we could ask user "According to Plazes your time zone has changed. Want to set system clock? Yes/No"14:29
bergieSince you don't change time zones that often that shouldn't become too annoying14:30
bergieand just doing it silently in background could be weird since user never really knows when and why it happens14:30
bergiejust like with cell phones... the automatic time zone update never appears to work correctly14:30
bergiePlazes returns a time zone, but if we use GeoClue and thus also support other means of positioning (like GPS), we could use the timezone web service from here to get it: http://www.geonames.org/export/14:32
* Jaffa 's cell phone time update always seems to work well (around western Europe, at least)14:34
bergieJaffa: I've never had it work for some reason14:38
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Jaffabergie: I think it can be quite operator dependent.14:44
X-FadeJaffa: I know some cells in Belgium that have a wrong time. Everytime I pass by them, my clock is screwed up :)14:44
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JaffaX-Fade: fun14:44
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X-FadeJaffa: Not really :)14:46
disqbergie: does plazes only submit the current connected AP? what if i'm connected via gprs/bt but there are APs (possibly encrypted) around? how about multiple APs?14:50
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bergiedisq: only the connected AP14:54
disqok, is that how plazes works or a limitation of the current script?14:54
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bergiethat is the way most plazes apps work14:56
bergieno idea if I can read the MAC addresses of APs I'm not connected to14:56
disqthat kinda limits the usage of plazes14:57
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disqthe application catalog in the wiki will soon start to crash some browsers15:08
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disq(not to mention some opera bundled internet tablets)15:09
mgedminthe new application catalog is prettier15:09
mgedminwith it had more fields (e.g. separate urls for home page and port page)15:10
mgedmins/with/wish/15:10
mgedminin-line .install file generation would also be Very Very Nice15:10
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disqtuxpaint is 3 megs? woah15:13
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jon1012hey someone knows how much is the guarantee on a 770 ?15:14
jon1012my screen starts to be very strange15:14
jon1012and it only has a few months15:14
mgedminwarranty?  I think it's 12 months15:14
jon1012ok thx15:14
jon1012I've seen people on forums saying that in france they weren't able to get waranty15:15
jon1012I hope it won't be my case15:15
mgedminhttp://www.nokiausa.com/support/warranty/item_details/1,1955,item:770,00.html15:15
mgedminhm, that's for "products purchased in the US"15:15
jon1012anyway, those people where able to get warantee suing nokia15:15
jon1012I hope I won't have to do the same lol15:15
disqyou can try sending the device to italy/germany etc? uk?15:16
mgedmineuropean nokia shop's warranty FAQ says 24 months for phones sold in Europe15:17
mgedmindoes not mention internet tablets15:17
jon1012ok15:17
jon1012yeah15:17
jon1012bwah I'll try reflashing, maybe it's not an hardware problem15:17
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jon1012(there are vertical lines on the screen when there are bright colors)15:19
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mgedminuh oh15:21
mgedminhardware problem15:21
jon1012http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=accessories&message.id=359215:21
jon1012arg, and no customer srvice for intertnet tablets in france :(15:22
vittorioi have problems with my n800 touchscreen. the right side is now alot less sensitive than the left side ,so i have to press with more force. is there a way to make it more sensitive again?15:23
[mbm]odd. try recalibrating it?15:24
vittorioyes, didnt help15:24
zuhRub it with magical pixie dust ;)15:24
disqalso do a search in internettablettalk.com forums15:24
vittorioi have none :)15:24
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jon1012some peoplek on forums say it may be the graphical drivers corrupted by failed boot15:26
* [mbm] was thinking something mechanical like a screen protector on too tight15:26
jon1012:(15:26
jon1012but it wasn't doing that until 1 hour ago15:27
jon1012I will try reflashing15:27
jon1012maybe it will help15:27
jon1012if not I'll call nokia15:27
jon1012(but I can't find their number as when you try to go to "repair" and select france you get a white page :s)15:27
disqgood luck, though your best bet is probably talking to nokia (i'm serious, give the another country thing a go)15:27
jon1012bwah, shitty cxustomer service15:28
jon1012I would have known I wouldn't have bought nokia, even if I love maemo :-/15:28
[mbm]hnn.. n800 really needs a suspend mode; I just heard the thing rebooting itself even though it's been sitting idle for the last 6 hours15:29
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disq[mbm]: it still reboots in suspend mode (well it's not a real suspend, a screen off mode)15:31
[mbm]that's what I mean it needs a real damn suspend mode15:31
disq:/15:31
[mbm]there is a /sys/power/state where you can put it into a lowpower standby but if you leave it in that state for more than 30 seconds it doesn't seem to come out of it without rebooting15:32
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jon1012argl even worse after reflashing15:33
disqbtw i still wonder why they left the soft poweroff (=turn off screen :p ) commented out in systemui.xml15:33
[mbm]disq: because it doesn't actually do a damn thing?15:33
[mbm]turns off the screen and pretends to be off15:33
disqjon1012: that's a hardware defect then, they should be able to replace it15:33
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disq[mbm]: it helps when you're carrying it in your pocket, since it won't turn the screen on unless you hold the power key15:34
JaffaBe interesting to see if the systemui.xml could be intercepted (DBUS/command) to do random things. Then soft poweroff could drop network connections and then act like the 770's cover.15:35
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[mbm]Jaffa: looked at it and it only seems to return an enum15:37
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[mbm]you can't set arbitrary commands15:37
[mbm]oh and there's also a /etc/mce where you can program what to do when the buttons are pressed15:37
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jon1012mhh15:40
jon1012for suppport15:40
jon1012nokia asks me the imei number ?15:40
jon1012what should I enter ?15:40
jon1012someone knows ?15:40
disqinternet tablets don't have imei numbers15:41
disqthough if you have a nokia phone you can enter that one15:41
vittoriowow cool, FM radio really works15:41
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jon1012I don't have a nokia phone :-/15:42
jon1012bwah it won't let me get supoport if I don't have an imei :(15:43
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jon1012someone have a random nokia imei I can enter there ?15:43
jon1012(because here it tells me that it doesn't appear to be valid)15:43
[mbm]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMEI15:44
jon1012thx15:44
jon1012http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3505 mhh15:44
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bergienice, the maemoplazer is now able to sit and watch for network changes... I wonder about the best way to activate it, though15:50
jon1012bwah I've had to use firebug to bypass the javascript imei validatin :(15:50
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Jaffajon1012: ring up?15:54
jon1012Jaffa: ?15:54
sp3000heh15:54
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Jaffajon1012: it sounds like you're using a web interface. Why not just ring the phone number (and follow the "PC Connectivity" hint to get to Level 2 Support)15:58
jon1012I got someone on the phone right now16:01
jon1012"we can't fix internet tablets, try to find a correct support center for it"16:01
jon1012fuck it16:01
jon1012I haven't got any pc connectivy16:01
jon1012they told me to contact a phone shop near my home lol16:02
jon1012fuck nokia :16:02
jon1012:)16:02
jon1012burning my tablet would be easier lol16:02
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[mbm]can't he just give the tablet to one of us and say he burned it?16:03
JaffaNokia support sounds like a nightmare for Maemo devices. Glad I've not had to use it (touch wood)16:04
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cybergypsyhi guys , my n800 has finally arrived - how do i find its MAC address ?16:04
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cybergypsynevermind , its inside the battery cover16:06
tigertyesh16:09
tigertbergie: one thing would be to make a home applet16:10
tigertadding Yet Another Status Icon is not a good idea16:10
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VeggenJaffa: I handed my N770 to a local Nokia dealer. He had no clue what the hell it was, nor where to send it, but I insisted that he should be able to find out. And it *did* work out, in the end, I got a call after a month or two, saying it was back again.16:19
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* Jaffa would find "a month or two" completely unacceptable, TBH.16:22
* disq avoids referring to himself in third person, but he agrees16:23
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VeggenJaffa: Well. It *was* over christmas, etc.16:27
Veggen...and I was generally too busy to play or follow up anyways :)16:28
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Disconnectwhen my 770 blew up (plugged it in to charge and it went boom) I sent it in (followed directions on nokia's website, including the problem-page pdf thing), they lost it for 3 weeks, found it (minus the memory card - my bad for forgetting it - and the power brick that blew it up) replaced it (after another couple weeks) without the card or brick. finally sent 2 64M cards (to replace a 512!) and after almost 3 months, a new power pack16:33
Disconnect(making it way more useful...)16:33
ian_brasilChristmas is different for people addicted to computers...Father Christmas comes down the modem and leaves from the serial port and sya's "Happy Christmas, ROM ROM ROM"16:33
disqstupid GDK_POINTER_MOTION_HINT_MASK was messing up my events16:34
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Veggenian_brasil: I had a ruby-on-rails-spare-time-project that was in despeate need for attention during christmas ;)16:36
Veggenso it was actually just good that my 770 was away.16:36
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jon1012I confirm what I was thinking, nokia has the worst customer support I've ever seen :)17:02
jon1012as soon asit gets back from repair (if they repair it as it's not sure from what they said... it could cost me 300$), I sell it on ebay and no more nokia devices for me17:04
jon1012that said sorry for disturbing you :)17:04
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* nomis waits for what comes with his device.17:05
Tak|workfries?17:05
nomisbut i wanted baked potatos!17:06
jon1012seriously, a device still under waranty, with a screen problem waused by a manufacturing problem, and they say it may cost you 300$, fuck nokia :)17:06
jon1012(no sorry, more than that, as it's 300€)17:06
Tak|workjon1012: you're understandably upset, but what do you expect to accomplish by griping about it in here?17:06
mgedmineh???17:06
mgedminscare us away17:06
jon1012Tak|work: nothing :p17:06
mgedmin(which is not likely)17:06
jon1012Tak|work: but maybe there are nokia gys here who may listen for next products :)17:07
jon1012s/gys/guys17:07
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mgedminnokia internet tablets: cool hardware, mediocre software, customer support from hell17:07
mgedminat least the software keeps getting better17:07
jon1012anyway once all this is finished, I'll post an open-letter to nokia on my blog17:08
kkitomgedmin, cool hardware without drivers17:08
mgedmindrivers == software17:08
kkitothen it isnt so cool....17:08
mgedminthat's part of its mediocricity (sp?)17:08
thomasvsjon1012: posting open letters on blogs is not a correct way of informing a company of a problem17:10
thomasvsor, at least, don't call it "an open letter" :)17:10
jon1012thomasvs: when their customer support ell you "go to hell", it is17:10
thomasvsjon1012: not if you want to achieve something instead of just coming off all emo :)17:11
thomasvsjon1012: I assume you want someone at nokia to hear your complaint17:11
jon1012seriously, I am one of the associates of a computer hardware assembler and it consulting company, if we did that to a client we would be taken out of business in less than one year !17:11
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nomisthomasvs: I really wish there were a channel where you could tell Nokia about stuff and they would take it seriously on a certain level. I'd like to discuss some hardware design descisions etc. and of course the maemo team here is not the proper partner for this.17:12
Tak|workhell, I wish every company had an irc channel cor customer interaction17:12
jon1012yeah17:12
jon1012thomasvs: tell me one good way then17:12
Tak|workunfortunately, most companies can barely get CS people who speak coherently17:13
thomasvsjon1012: exactly, so find the right persion at nokia to send "a letter" to, a blog is a pull model not a push model17:13
jon1012at last my blog has more than 1k visit per day, so maybe they will hear me17:13
nomisI would be completely happy with a snail mail address if someone would guarantee me that they would read it and provide non-boilerplate answers.17:13
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nomisso that your suggestions would actually reach the responsible team.17:13
nomis"I want a hard cover for the next internet tablet, the felt pouch is unable to keep the device from waking up when thrown into a bag.17:14
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nomis"also the felt pouch not even manages to keep the device inside it."17:14
thomasvsnomis: I believe you can buy one in the accessories, I would much prefer it too17:15
thomasvsanyway, my usual strategy is to gripe directly to the nokia devs that I know17:15
jon1012thomasvs: do you know that good person to mail ? :)17:15
nomisthomasvs: the thing is that I don'17:15
thomasvsjon1012: heh, that only works because you know them17:15
thomasvsjon1012: and even then it doesn't always work17:15
nomisdon't understand why they departed from the perfect solution with the 770.17:15
jon1012thomasvs: so an open letter is the good way to go for me !17:16
thomasvsjon1012: ok, good luck17:16
Tak|workapparently not everybody felt it was perfect17:16
jon1012thomasvs: thanks :)17:16
jon1012thomasvs: anyway I will only really complain if they don't want to repare it17:16
Veggenjon1012: The tablets are and will probably be "odd" devices that many nokia people will have no clue about, at all.17:17
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jon1012Veggen: yeah but that someone in customer service tells me "well, if you aren't happy, sue us ! you won't have success without that" isn't really a good way of handling customers17:19
jon1012(my translation maybe is bad, I'm not native english)17:19
partnomis: I don't think there is anyone anywhere who would actually listen17:19
tzzI strongly disagree the Nokia ITOS software is mediocre.  It's extremely good as far as Linux UI goes.  It's miles ahead of the Newton, PalmOS, S60, or Windows Mobile, all of which I have used.17:23
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tzz(responding to mgedmin)17:23
Tak|workthere's at least one newton user who disagrees ;-)17:23
tzzoh, I know.  But, having used the Newton, I can tell you it wasn't quite the rhapsody it's made out to be by its fanboys.17:25
mgedmintzz: do you really believe that?17:25
tzzmgedmin: obviously, since I just said it.17:25
mgedminit's good because it is open (when it is), portable, full of features17:25
mgedminbut it is lightyears behind PalmOS in polish, usability and responsiveness17:25
Tak|workI've never used a newton or a palm for any substantial length of time17:26
mgedminI've used a palm (two palms) for 5 years17:26
mgedminI don't use it any more, because the 770 is much better17:26
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tzzmgedmin: responsiveness in a multitasking preemptive OS is not easy.  Considering all the N800 does vs. the essentially single-tasking PalmOS, I'm willing to live with a little less responsiveness.  I used PalmOS for about 4 years, Palm V and then a smart phone.17:26
mgedminfeature-wise17:26
mgedminI'm not saying it is easy17:27
mgedminand I am also willing to live with the responsivity I get17:27
tzzpolish: do you mean visual or functional?17:27
mgedminbecause features are more important to me17:27
mgedminpolish: probably both, but mostly visual17:27
mgedmine.g. lack of double-buffering that causes ugly rectangles to be drawn before a menu appears17:28
tzzI'd say visual polish is a manner of opinion.  Mine is that ITOS 2007 looks much better than any PalmOS I ever used.17:28
tzzfunctional polish is decent, I agree it could be better but other than keyboard and copy/paste I'm pretty happy with it.17:29
tzzusability is very difficult to quantify.  I'd like to see some usability studies instead of Newton and PalmOS comparisons.17:30
mgedminI concede that it looks better17:30
mgedminbut it does not feel better17:30
mgedminredrawing artifacts, sluggishness17:30
Tak|workplus...nokia loves triangles!17:30
mgedmin:)17:31
tzzheh17:31
mgedminI've got nothing against triangles17:31
mgedminbut the menu scrolling method is plain silly17:31
mgedminand scrollbars are too narrow for my fingernails17:31
Tak|workagreed17:31
mgedminand the dividers, especially when they're right next to scrollbars17:31
Tak|workactually I can just scroll with my thumb on the n80017:31
Tak|workeven the narrowest scroolbars17:31
mgedminI also can, but I don't hit them always17:31
Tak|workthat's the thing I most hope for in 2007on77017:32
Tak|workthe improvements in thumbability17:32
tzzyeah, thumb sensitivity is not built into everything.  I hope that changes, it's a neat effect in the start menus for instance.17:32
tzzalthough the small arrows do annoy me17:32
mgedminone of the biggest annoyances is that I cannot change the volume/screen brightness when there's a info tip hanging17:33
mgedminsaying "loading web..." for example17:33
tzzanyhow, I was just trying to say ITOS 2007 is hardly mediocre.  Unpolished, yes.  But to me, it's better than the other handheld OSs out there.17:33
mgedminI haven't seen that many other handheld OSes17:34
mgedminbut my Palm never used to crash and reboot as often as my 77017:34
mgedminperhaps my standards are unreasonably high17:34
* Jaffa 's did17:34
mgedminUbuntu is good, IT OS 2007 is mediocre17:35
JaffaBut my Psion very *rarely* did.17:35
mgedminwell, I suppose if I gave my Ubuntu 64 megs of ram and a 250 mhz cpu, it would also seem to be mediocre17:35
mgedminif not outright unusable17:35
Tak|workyeah - I still have my old laptop, whose specs aren't much different than the 77017:36
Tak|workhey - I should put maemo on it!17:36
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tzzI forgot to mention GEOS on the Nokia 9500 communicator as a comparison point :)17:39
tzzI owned that for 1.5 years17:39
tzzeven wrote a "dope wars" game for it17:39
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JaffaTak|work: you could even put the shiny new scalable Hildon on it. Trouble is getting something usable from Scratchbox vs. the shiny screenshots the Nokia devs can produce17:42
Tak|workhah - it only goes to 800x600 anyway :-P17:42
Jaffa:)17:44
garrettTak: wow, so the 770/N800 _almost_ matches your old laptop's screen res? (:17:46
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Tak|workI'd say it matches the resolution, just not the aspect ;-)17:46
mgedminheh17:48
mgedminmy oldest laptop was 640x48017:48
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tigertTak|work: actually,17:51
tigertmaemo wouldnt be too bad of an ui at all for a tablet laptop17:51
tigertie, those with a swiweling touchscreen17:51
tigertstock gnome doesnt quite wrok on the tablet mode really17:51
tigertwell, it works but its cumbersome17:52
tigertyou dont really need draggable windows etc, you just want to focus on the apps themselves17:52
kkitohey i made a package that needs to copy some files to the mmc1, but it fails at install because the installer cannot set the chmod to the /media/mcc/dir because it is vfat. What must i to hack to solve it?17:52
Tak|workI agree - I don't see why it would be different on a bigger tablet than on the n80017:52
mgedminwhen the screen is big enough, draggable windows are useful17:53
mgedminhm...17:54
mgedmin12" tablet pc running maemo...17:54
* mgedmin drools17:54
garretthandwriting recognition on the n800 isn't as bad as people make it out to be, at least for me, and I did train it a little17:56
garrettbut it could stand to use some improving17:56
garrettit would be nice if there was a note jotting app that could recognize it anywhere in context instead of having a little field17:57
garrettthat would be totally a killer app17:57
garrettalthough xournal is pretty nice even w/o handwriting recognition17:57
garrettI just wish xournal could also do portrait mode too17:57
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Jaffagarrett: err, what'd be different about just writing at a different angle?17:58
* Jaffa finds his scrawls a bit too big for xournal to be *really* useful :-(17:59
garrettJaffa: the scrollbar of the page, adding a new page, the toolbar17:59
JaffaSo I'm with mgedmin on a 12" tablet PC running Maemo. But faster. And more stable.17:59
garrettI'd like it to be a little like fbreader where I can just flip through new pages back and forth17:59
Jaffagarrett: toolbar becomes sidemounted in portrait mode - it's a feature ;-)17:59
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garrettheh17:59
JaffaPoint taken (and agreed)17:59
mgedminah, but the icons should be rotated :)18:00
garrettwell, the lines and the scrollbar and page zoom all need tweaking for more proper portrait mode18:00
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Jaffamgedmin: damnit :)18:06
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osfameronare the debian packages for scratchbox OK for ubuntu ?18:21
osfameronwell, I guess I'll soon find out :-)18:23
Tak|workI used the scripts18:23
Tak|workand I'm on debian/sid18:23
osfameronwhich ones?18:23
Tak|workthe ones at http://repository.maemo.org/stable/bora/18:24
osfameronah18:24
alumpthat also works fine with ubuntu 6.10 (i just installed today)18:24
Tak|workthe instructions in INSTALL.txt got me set up without a hitch18:25
osfameronI looked at http://home.comcast.net/~3rdshift/articles/Nokia770/Maemo-Installation.html, went to scratchbox.org and added the relevant repo to synaptic18:25
osfameronwell, I'll see if it works :-)18:25
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kenderhello18:28
tkohttp://community.livejournal.com/lbello_english/3991.html :)18:31
* mgedmin grep '^.tch$' /usr/share/dict/words18:33
mgedminhehe18:33
kender:)18:33
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* Tak|work buys a vowel18:33
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mgedminon december 10 someone on our local linux mailing list said that etch will be released "very soon"18:37
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mgedminmy reaction was "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA"18:37
Tak|workis the movie player fixed in the latest n800 image?18:38
c0ffeethe heise computer journal for this month contains a story "edge is released (probably)"18:38
c0ffeeetch even18:38
Tak|work(fixed as in, doesn't hang after a few minutes)18:38
bedboimgedmin: well "very soon" in debian's jargon means "2 years"18:41
bedboidebian developers use geological eras as timescales.18:42
bedboiso, 2 years is really soon18:42
everaldoMDK, Hi, I have a mono devkit done, but I need your help to clear some doubts18:43
JaffaTak|work: no18:43
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Tak|work:-(18:44
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volanyone playing with mplayer on the n800?18:46
volTak|work: im not too sure about the built in player since most of my videos are not in a supported format18:47
Tak|workI'm talking about movies that were specifically transcoded for the 77018:48
Molagimplayer works perfectly on my n800 but i still use the standard media player, it seems a lot more stable18:48
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volMolagi: do you use the default settings that came with the package?18:49
Molagiyeah18:49
osfameronright, now I have scratchbox installed18:49
osfameronwoot18:49
voli tried the default settings but in high motion scenes it skips back and forth a few frames at a time18:50
osfameronah, now I need to isntall maemo sdk18:50
vollike its stuttering18:50
Molagiyeah i had that problem also with the older version of mplayer18:51
MDKeveraldo: hey18:51
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volhm, im running the newest version and i still have that problem18:52
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voli ran it with -ao esd -ac ffmp3 and i dont get the stuttering, it just drops more frames18:52
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osfameronI just tryied apt-get update on my sbox-SDK_ARMEL18:57
osfameronand it's telling my SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set18:57
osfameronI may have unset the variables while trying to select the ARMEL target?18:58
mgedmindon't think so18:58
mgedminhow did you create the target?18:58
osfameronI used the script18:59
mgedmindid you run the maemo installer scri...18:59
mgedminok18:59
everaldoMDK, The devkit-(version) must be package version or scratchbox version?18:59
mgedminhmm18:59
osfameronBut then I tried to select the ARMEL target to run apt-get stuff as suggested in INSTALL.txt18:59
osfamerononly instead of choosing Select...18:59
osfameronI chose Setup... and I may have unset some options18:59
osfameronshould I rerun the script?18:59
MDKeveraldo: package version I guess19:00
MDKeveraldo: I mean, devkits are installed externally19:00
MDKso debian package here is actually optional19:00
everaldoMDK, well, I will include gtk-sharp in devkiy19:00
MDKhmm19:00
everaldoMDK, and search for a place to upload19:00
keesjdevkiy?19:01
everaldodevkit19:01
everaldo:)19:01
MDKyou need to build gtk-sharp packages anyways for the device, right?19:01
everaldoyes19:01
everaldodevkit can include more than one package19:02
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everaldoMDK, I think (not sure) that in sb-mono-devkit we can have mono,gtk-sharp and maemo-sharp19:02
Tak|workosfameron: not sure what the best solution would be19:03
Tak|workif it was me, I'd probably rm the scratchbox and redo, but that may be overkill19:03
osfameronTak|work: I think it's just that I've crapped on the settings...  I'll grep the script and see if it has any obvious commands19:03
MDKeveraldo: well, my only concern is -- since you need to maintain the binary-indep gtk-sharp, maemo-sharp packages...19:04
MDKisn't it better to keep it separated?19:04
MDKin future, you'd need to update only in one place19:04
osfameronaha, I can rerun the sdk installer with -y to refresh the targets19:05
MDKbut this just my *first thought*19:05
everaldoMDK, you mean have mono as devkit and gtk-sharp and maemo-sharp as .deb packages?19:05
MDKeveraldo: yep19:06
MDKpackages as debian-packages for device/sbox19:06
MDKsince the devkit is not a package essentially19:07
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everaldoMDK, looks a nice solution19:07
Tak|workwhy not all packages as .debs?19:07
Tak|workmono-runtime, mono-devkit, mono-gtk-cil, mono-maemo-cil ?19:07
everaldoBecause you need devkit to compile the packages19:07
everaldowe will have mono packages19:08
everaldofor use in device19:08
everaldoIn my concern devkit is to be used only for development purposes19:09
MDKeveraldo: exactly19:09
MDKTak|work: you can't run mono vm inside the arm target19:09
Tak|workeek19:10
MDKTak|work: it exposes the quemu bugs19:10
MDK*qemu19:10
MDKTak|work: some mono stuff requires building native code (.c glue layer) along with the arch-independant code19:10
Tak|workyeah, I know19:10
Tak|workI have lived the nightmare that is mono devel on win3219:11
MDKso you need some way to run the monovm in the arm target19:11
MDKTak|work: is it?19:11
everaldowell, my monovm works fine under win3219:11
MDKrunning mono stuff seems to be trivial these days on win3219:11
everaldoyes... exactly19:11
MDKbut I haven't tried development really19:12
Tak|workI ported MD19:12
osfameronyay!  reinstalling the targets works fine19:12
MDKTak|work: that explains a lot19:12
everaldoabout devkit, I will talk with miguel to have a place to upload it19:12
MDK;)19:12
MDKwe have some shared space on maemo, don't we?19:13
everaldoand on weekend I will work in deb packages19:13
everaldoHave?19:13
Tak|workwhich really wasn't that much work, but setting up dev environs and building svn checkouts of mono,gtk#,etc with cygwin was...tedious19:13
maddlerMDK, everald... if you need Ican give some space...19:13
MDKeveraldo: you might start a garage project19:14
MDKyou can upload stuff easily there19:14
everaldoTak|work, very slow but works fine these days19:14
everaldoMDK, I will start it19:14
everaldoMDK, I think that I have a garage login19:14
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everaldoI also setup my blog finally, maybe create a category maemo will be fine19:15
Tak|workyeah, everything worked ok, but it was very slow, and like any kind of complex software, particularly cross-platform, it had its gotchas19:15
osfameronyay!  I have a Xephyr19:16
MDKeveraldo: sure, we can aggregate it on planet maemo19:18
osfameronwhat's the best docs available for offline reading for startup with maemo dev?19:19
Tak|workthe tutorial's pretty good19:19
osfameronis that installed by the script?19:19
keesjwhat would be a good maemo debian section for sdk tools like the swig?19:19
Tak|workhttp://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/Maemo_tutorial_bora.html19:20
osfameronTak|work: thanks19:20
Tak|workyou could install it pretty easily with wget ;-)19:20
Jaffakeesj: development - definitely not "user/". Don't think it matters too much19:20
Jaffakeesj: if you're looking at the patch, please assign the issue to yourself as soon as you pick it up: that'll prevent duplication19:21
keesjwe need some form of workflow19:21
osfameronTak|work: harr!  annoyingly I'm on irc on my win machine via putty19:23
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Tak|workanybody in an environment where they use BlueSocket ?19:24
mgedminfor some reason I misread that as "BlueSock"19:27
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mgedminand started wondering about the colour of my socks19:27
Tak|workheh19:28
Tak|workbluesocket is this weird proprietary vpn thing19:28
Jaffakeesj: proposed workflow sent to mailing list19:29
Jaffakeesj: comments welcome19:29
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kenderJaffa, keesj does MUD work with svn ?19:31
keesjkender: in what way?19:32
kenderkeesj, they don't make "releases", so there is no tar.bz2 or nothing else, so you have to get the sources from the svn19:32
slomoMDK: just curious but why don't you take the debian mono package? should work fine with a few minor adjustments19:33
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Jaffakender: correct, you need to get mud from svn - and keep it regularly up-to-date at the moment. There is no plan for file releases at any point as it doesn't make sense within the aims of the project.19:36
kenderJaffa, no, that's no my question, hehe, sorry my english :(19:36
MDKslomo: frankly, I don't know19:37
kenderI'm porting an app (shell-fm), that the only way to get the sources is via svn19:37
Jaffakender: yes, there's a <fetch type="command"> where you can specify the comman dto get the sources, e.g. svn export.19:37
kenderahh19:37
kendernice19:37
kenderhehe19:37
kenderthat was my question19:37
kenderthanks19:37
Jaffahttp://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/docs/index.php?id=packageformat#fetch - see "command" heading19:37
MDKslomo: I'm not a debian expert, I just happily passed the ball ;)19:38
kenderJaffa, thanks19:38
slomoMDK: well, i'm maintaining the package with some other's in debian ;) if you have questions... but before i finally have my n800 and finished my next exams i won't try it myself ;)19:38
maddlerlater folks...19:39
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tigertslomo: I think the more collaboration with debian and other projects there is, the better20:02
tigertif the package works okay, of course we should use it20:02
slomotigert: if not it should be made to work ok imho ;)20:02
disqgah. i need some x signalling tips20:05
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disqor a fresh approach20:06
disqheh20:06
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lasalahmmmm... has anyone tried Silica yet ?20:09
kenderkeesj, no answer from garage, there is it?20:10
konfoowhat the rebranded 770 with a python app and 3 buttons?20:10
konfoowhat kind of idiot would pay 3600.... nevermind20:11
lasalayep that one20:11
MDKSilica?20:11
mgedmin$1200 per button20:11
konfoosucker.born.every.minute.20:11
lasalait should be illegal to charge that much money for an open source app20:11
konfoowell its not illegal20:11
konfooit should be illegal to be so clueless as to actually purchase one :)20:12
JussiPAn idiot and his money are soon parted.20:12
konfooindeed20:12
mgedminmake money fast: take a device that costs $350 and sell it to the government or the army for $360020:12
JussiPYou need camo paint for army. That's really expensive, you know.20:12
konfoomgedmin: provided you can fenagle the bidding process, yes20:13
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Pioits not very useful without packet injection, too20:13
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Piopenetration testing my foot20:13
konfooyou could buy a dual core laptop and burn a dozen pentest livecds for a fraction of that price20:13
MDKthat's scary stuff20:13
mgedminPio: try an axe20:14
konfoodid you guys see the screenshots of their app? one still has a link to gazpacho right next to their 'app'20:14
konfooi couldnt stop laffing20:14
mgedminif you really want to pentest your foot20:14
MDKunfortunately, I've seen this rule elsewhere20:14
Pioyou can get a hell of an axe for 3 grand20:14
MDKlike -- fo rgovernment/army/corporations, if a product is not expensive enough -- it's not proffessional20:14
lasalaunder GPL agreement the source code of this app has to me made available to the public i think20:14
MDKit's like this famous Spolsky's story20:14
konfoolasala: yeah good luck with that20:15
MDKhe started selling more of his product when he increased the price20:15
Jaffalasala: a) how do you know it's a GPL app? b) if it were they have to make it available to anyone with the binary. Initially, that'll be only people they've sold it to.20:15
tzzlasala: it's not GPL, I'm sure, the guy was in #maemo a week ago or so20:16
JaffaHometime.20:17
konfoohttp://content.zdnet.com/2346-12691_22-53766-5.html for a laugh at silica20:17
lasalawell it uses canvas.. i thought it was under GPL20:17
konfoohttp://content.zdnet.com/2346-12691_22-53766-6.html my favorite20:18
mgedminI especially like the squished aspect ratio of those screenshots20:18
konfooheh nod20:18
* konfoo shakes his head in disgust20:18
tzzkonfoo: why are you laughing at them?  they are obviously in a niche that has a high profit margin, I've seen lots of such products at more exorbitant prices.20:19
konfoobecause of the sheer amateur hour approach20:19
tzzkonfoo: think about how much it costs to pay developers, marketing, etc. for a startup also20:19
tzzkonfoo: as opposed to what on the N800?  The Gizmo project?20:20
konfootzz: maybe i have higher standards20:20
MDKit's unfair20:20
konfooquite frankly i would be embarassed to sell something like this20:20
MDKit might be legal, but it's unfair20:20
tzzkonfoo: have you written something better?  That made money?20:21
konfootzz: yes. chip on your shoulder?20:21
konfooare you associated with silica?20:21
keesjkonfoo: I like that the first screen shot shows the gazpacho interface builder :p20:22
tzzkonfoo: no20:22
tzznice one though20:22
konfookeesj: my point exactly :)20:22
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tzz"he doesn't agree with me, he must work for them!"20:22
konfooyoure the one bitching at me, not the other way around20:22
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tzzkonfoo: I'm not bitching, read what I said.  I am talking about the realities of the startup business.  You were the one ridiculing a functional product because it doesn't look great.20:25
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bedboianyone lives in london?20:27
bedboii have some questions :)20:27
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konfootzz: i am quite familiar with the realities of doing business. a bad business plan is not an excuse for tacky overpriced product20:29
konfooif they want to do business that way then good luck to them.20:30
tigertwell, the market tells what is a good price20:31
konfooexactly20:31
konfootheir only advantage in selling that is that their product can appear as a line item on government purchase orders20:33
konfoowhich the govt. bean counters love20:33
thomasvsMDK: why is it unfair ?20:36
tigertMDK: it's like Coke20:37
mgedminswindling usually is unfair20:38
tigertMDK: the legend says at one point they tried to sell it as syrup to restaurants with little success. then they got the idea of bottling it and selling it with 10x the price20:38
konfooand coke used to contain cocaine20:39
[mbm]they still sel coke as sryup, look at all the soda fountains20:39
c0ffeethat's why it's called coca cola20:39
mgedminIIRC the cocaine bit is an urban legend20:40
[mbm]mgedmin: pretty much20:40
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konfooCoke had cocaine in it long ago; it is flavored with an extract20:41
konfoofrom the coca leaf (the plant from which cocaine is extracted).20:41
konfooBack a long time ago cocaine was being touted as "the new aspirin"20:41
konfooand was available from the corner drug store, just like aspirin.20:41
konfooThen people started getting addicted to it, it was made20:41
konfooillegal in the US, and Coke susbtiuted caffeine for the cocaine to20:41
konfoogive the drink a "lift" without the addiction...but the coca leaf20:41
konfooextract is still used in Coke as far as I know.20:41
[mbm]it used some of the same ingredients as cocaine but it's not like saying coke is bottled cocaine20:42
mgedminhmm... http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_033.html20:42
konfooeverything had coke in it at the turn of the century20:43
konfoo'tonics' were a big scam20:43
[mbm]heh, there was an interesting special on the history channel last week talking about coke/pepsi and they covered the whole new-coke thing20:43
konfooit all died when the FDA forced tonic manufacturers to list their ingredients on the bottles20:43
konfoowhich they did cause people were becoming addicts left right and center20:44
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Disconnectkonfoo: you have several events mixed together. the addict problem was managed by making some drugs illegal (and some illegal without medical supervision - prescriptions..) the tonics mostly went out because the fda got oversight over claims of health/medicinal benefits and the ingredients labeling was a whole other issue entirely20:45
Disconnect"managed" i should say, but anyway..20:45
[mbm]tonics were whatever you could bottle and were often a mix of garbage and poisons20:46
* [mbm] wonders what was a bigger screwup, new coke or clear pepsi20:53
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cesmannew coke20:56
Disconnectyah20:56
Disconnecti kinda liked clear pepsi.20:56
Disconnectdidn't cry when it went away, but..20:56
[mbm]well, new coke sort of made sense; it was at a time when they were losing market share to pepsi because people liked the sweetness of pepsi better in a one sip taste test20:57
MDKthomasvs: it's unfair, because you're standing on the shoulders of giants, yet you pretend you created the value yourself20:59
MDKbesides, it's damaging the market20:59
MDKit's like packing ubuntu free cd's in a nice box & shrink-wrap, and selling at 400$21:00
* [mbm] finds it funny that converting back to coke classic caused an upswell of popularity that they wouldn't have had otherwise21:00
[mbm]leading some to believe the whole thing was a marketing scam21:00
[mbm]same can't be said about crystal pepsi21:00
thomasvsMDK: right, but anyone can do the same for 50$21:02
tzzmdk: this is called the "strawman" argument.  It's very easy to argue against a $400 package.21:02
tzzmdk: what do you think about $20 Ubuntu with support?21:02
MDKtzz: the strawman is on your side21:03
tzzhuh?21:03
MDKas you're trying to generalize the thing to the point were discussion is impossible21:03
MDKwe're not talking here about 20$ + support21:04
MDKwe're talking about an extreme case21:04
MDKI don't know were 'fair' ends and 'unfair' starts when dealing with open-source21:05
MDKI don't even try to know21:05
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MDKbut in this particular case -- it's unfair in my understanding21:05
thomasvsI think it's reasonably practically defined by "the point where someone else can make money undercutting you"21:05
tzzmdk: what case is unfair?  Can you be specific?21:06
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MDKtzz: 3600$ for this device21:07
tzzif we're talking about commercial software, it's pretty clear to me you can't compare it with Ubuntu, which is 100% free21:08
thomasvstzz: ubuntu is 99% free :)21:08
MDKBTW, on a totally unrelated note -- from what I know, nokia has never explicitly allowed this21:08
MDKwhat might be bad even21:08
thomasvsMDK: it looks like it would be easy to just take hildon, slap a small gazpacho frontend to metasploit, and give away the app as a competitor21:08
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thomasvsMDK: probably the best way to address this company if you feel it's unfair21:09
MDKthomasvs: true21:09
MDKthomasvs: that's why I'm not advocating t ochase them, bring them down, boycot them or sue them21:09
MDKbut still I think it's unfair ;)21:09
MDKbut again, it's probbably not legal even21:10
thomasvswhy not legal ?21:10
thomasvsare they using their own hardware ?21:10
MDKthe rootfs license doesn't allow reselling21:10
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MDKthere was a discussion about this on the ml some time ago21:10
mgedminMDK: does that mean that one cannot sell his 770 on ebay?21:11
mgedminthat's nuts!21:11
MDKmgedmin: wtf are you talking about?21:11
mgedminselling the nokia 770 with extra software21:11
mgedmin"the rootfs license doesn't allow reselling"21:12
MDKthere is a difference between selling your device on ebay, and being a company that sells a product that's based on another product -- rebranding it on the ago21:13
MDKsimilarly, samsung can't sell nokia phones with extra software on it21:13
MDKbut I'm not a lawyer, the rootfs licensing needs to be sorted out anyways21:14
MDKpersonally I'd like it to be possible so that many variants of the device can be created21:15
MDKwith many variants the 'fair' thing will kick in automatically21:15
thomasvsMDK: yeah, exactly21:17
mgedminwhat exactly is that difference?21:17
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thomasvsmgedmin: you don't see the difference between a user selling a used device and a company selling lots of brand new devices ?21:18
thomasvsmgedmin: I have this car I'd like you to sell you then21:18
thomasvsruns great, no mileage, never used21:18
mgedmin:)21:18
mgedminone careful owner who was an old lady21:18
mgedminand never drove anywhere21:18
tigertits like I bought powerbooks, installed my own wallpaper and engraved "TigBook" on them21:19
tigertand sold them, apple wouldnt like that21:19
thomasvstigert: oh, awesome21:19
thomasvstigert: I would so pay double for that if the wallpaper was nice21:19
tigerteven though it would cause great joy and happiness around21:19
mgedminlaser etching!21:19
tigertbut steve wouldnt smile21:19
mgedminstill, my question was more about the legal mechanism that distinguishes one from the other21:20
mgedminselling used (or unopened) device on ebay21:20
pvanhoofso,21:20
mgedminversus rebranding and selling without telling anyone it is based on another company's product21:20
pvanhoofhas anyone here tested tinymails' IDLE support ?21:20
mgedminthat wouldn't be a trademark violation, I think21:20
pvanhoofI trying to find users who have been trying it :)21:20
pvanhoofas it's going to be impossible for me to be testing with all existing imap servers21:21
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tigertpvanhoof: I hate email21:22
disqcan i put different repo_deb entries to a .install file?21:23
pvanhooftigert, :)21:23
tigert:)21:23
disqi mean, some of the components are in another repo, etc21:23
pvanhoofyou are always in for a new twist to something, aren't you tigert ? ;)21:23
tigertdisq: read the spec?21:23
disqi could only find the HOWTO on maemo.org, that's all i got21:23
mgedminthat's the spec :)21:23
disqok, gotta ask ferenc :)21:24
tigerthttps://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/osso-application-installer/doc/repository.txt21:24
tigertthats the same thing I guess21:24
Tak|workdamn, I missed all the good arguments21:24
tigertdisq: but try?21:24
MDKmgedmin: /ww 4721:25
keesjtigert I was on the wmii irc yesterday,it was really funny to hear what they hate.21:25
MDKoh, sorry21:25
mgedminis that a cipher? :)21:26
keesjyou almost get banned if you talk about 3d21:26
MDKmgedmin: I'm not a lawyer. But there is a difference.21:26
tigertsounds like irssi alias for window manipulation21:26
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MDKtigert: i learn from the masters21:26
MDKbtw, 47 irsssi windows...21:27
mgedminmy quota of console-mode applications is filled with vim and mutt21:27
mgedminI could never manage to learn BitchX or irssi21:27
disqyeah gotta try i guess21:27
disqi've been trying stuff this whole day anyways.21:27
tigerthmm21:27
tigertI have 6921:27
mgedminlooks like .install files can have only one repo21:27
Tak|workthe latest version of bitchx broke all my aliases and I haven't bothered to fix them21:28
mgedmina bit of a shame21:28
Tak|workyou can have one repo for bora and one for pre-bora21:28
tigertI used bitchx for a year or so in 1996 or such21:28
tigertbut it was embarassing21:28
disqi also need a way to detect the version of the running maemo environment, my armel2.2 target somehow doesn't get past configure now21:28
Fatalgo.pl is nice when you start to get lost with your windows in irssi, i just type /go mae press tab and it will complete to all matching windows i have open with 'mae'21:28
tigertI always ended kickbanning and shitlisting most of my friends without realizing why :)21:28
Tak|worklol21:29
tigertbecause it had all those automated things to eliminate flooders etc :)21:29
tigertand I didnt know how to turn them off :)21:29
tigertthus I switched to EPIC21:29
tigertwhich I used until about, hm 3 years ago?21:29
tigertwhen I switched to irssi21:29
Tak|workdisq: do they have different versions of hildon libs maybe?21:29
tigertit was a big mental change, epic had split windows21:29
tigertbut I learned to love the irssi way21:29
disqTak|work: it's a stupid error about intltool :)21:30
tigertand I have too many windows anyway to have them in one split screen21:30
Tak|workwell - I meant that as a way to differentiate them scriptically21:30
disqah. nah, i want runtime21:30
Tak|workdoes 2.2 sbox have autotools 1.9?21:30
disqchecking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool21:31
disqas soon as i saw "perl" there i just gave up21:31
Tak|workis libxml-parser-perl installed?21:31
MDKtigert: in '96 I was using mirc ;)21:32
disqyeah, it is21:32
Tak|workI switched to xchat now that I'm so rarely on a machine sans X21:32
Tak|workhm21:32
tigertMDK: heh21:33
tigertMDK: I used window 3.1121:33
tigertI bought win9521:33
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tigertbut never really used it21:33
tigertsince I then had linux21:33
tigerthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdBqJSdsbLo21:33
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Tak|workman - I wish I'd known about linux in 199521:34
tigertI started my CS studies then21:34
tigertfound irc, html, web and Gimp!21:35
Tak|workyeah, not until 98 for me21:35
tigertand it's been a ride since then21:35
Tak|workno kidding21:35
tigertGimp used Motif21:35
tigertbut I did some web stuff with it21:35
tigertno layers21:35
tigertbut it had this "composition" plugin set21:35
tigertie, basically layer modes like "multiply" etc21:35
tigertso one could do drop shadows etc stuff by thinking ahead and planning nicely21:36
konfooi cant even remember what i used before gimp21:36
konfooi vaguely remember some motif apps on hpux21:37
tigerthttp://www.valdyas.org/~boud/images/gimp.png21:37
tigertso many dialogs!21:37
tigertbut it was solid gold21:37
konfooand wavefront composer21:37
tigertI couldnt afford paint shop pro21:37
konfooheh21:37
tigertor photoshop21:37
tigertit was awesome21:37
tigertto have a FREE tool!21:37
tigertand then I learned to know the people who were hacking it21:38
tigerttotally new idea21:38
mgedminit looks so strange...21:38
tigertit was strange21:38
* mgedmin first got linux in 199721:39
mgedminI remember playing with the shell in the slackware boot/root floppies one night21:39
mgedmindidn't have the rest of the floppy images yet21:39
tigertheh21:39
tigert"Pete's GTK is a very nice toolkit, one which could probably replace the horrible interface of xfig without too much difficulty. This project could get you a reasonable ammount of internet-freeware fame."21:39
garretttigert: heh, yeah, I started CS stuff in '95 and found irc, html, web, and Gimp too21:40
tigertwho knew??21:40
garrettand I agree about the trip from then to now too (;21:40
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konfooi went ibm s36 -> minix -> linux.. cant remember.. kernel 0.9 or something21:40
* tigert wonders where S & P are these days21:41
garrettgood question21:41
tigerthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_W._Kimball21:41
tigertym21:41
tigertum21:41
tigertnot that one :D21:41
tigerthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Kimball < this one21:42
hubwow, the gimp in motif?21:42
keesjthe posted gimp image is from 200521:42
garretthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Kimball <- yeah21:42
tigertkeesj: yea it is a new pic21:42
tigertbut its the old codebase21:42
tigertit runs fine on lesstiff21:42
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tigertI think its in gimp.org ftp still21:42
hubI forgot that era21:42
hublike in 1996?21:42
tigerthub: :)21:42
konfoofsp what?21:42
garrettheh, he works for Google now21:42
tigertgarrett: wow21:43
hubgarrett: like lot of people21:43
garrettyeah21:43
hubto bad they require people to move to bushistan21:43
tigertI didnt know spencer was the gnutella author too21:43
hubtoo bad for them21:43
garretthmm?21:43
tigerthub: better than Helsinski?21:43
Tak|worklol hub21:43
garretthe works for Google in NY21:43
tigertor worse?21:43
tigertthere is google office here too apparently21:43
tigertsales only though I guess21:44
tigertor whatever21:44
garrettthere's a google office down the street a block or so from here21:44
Fatalwth. garrett21:44
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hubtigert: there is an office on Toronto. but no egineering21:44
garrettFatal: hmm?21:44
hubtigert: in Europe you have Dublin and Zurich21:44
Fatalplease hold, probing memory21:44
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hubtigert: for Dublin you probably don't need any visa21:45
tigertyea21:45
tigertits not like I am much interested at this point :)21:45
tigertlots of fun stuff at Nokia21:45
tigertto see how we can work with the community and such21:45
hubtigert: unlike myself21:45
tigerthub: come here :)21:45
hubtigert: not possible21:45
konfootheres a new google office in irvine here i see21:46
tigertthough we have NDA's and that crap, but its hard to avoid them anywhere21:46
Tak|workare there any nokia offices in australia?21:46
myrenoohh21:46
myrenkonfoo, any idea what the irvine office's main topics are?21:46
Tak|work(like, interesting corporate stuff, not resellers)21:46
Fatalgarrett: nm, just had the sinking feeling i was hanging around some channel with you and a bunch of people a few years back, but i still got a high fever and can't really place it anyho21:46
garrettFatal: very possible21:47
Fatalgarrett: used to go under different nick?21:47
keesjtigert: It must be hard sometimes the NDA stuff, or people blaming the wrong guys stuff like that21:47
konfoomyren: not really.. one of my old colleagues is a hr manager there now i think21:47
garrettFatal: I pretty much have used garrett for years21:47
konfoothey are hiring, i noticed21:47
Fatalgarrett: must been the channel i'm pondering about then21:48
hubtigert: you know when I see how hard it is for Nokia to provide people in Canada with a way to use the discount, I'm thrilled to go work there. But that is just me. maybe I just need to find a reason21:48
keesjI will start my c/c++ based job next month , I am very very happy21:48
tigerthub: I am ashamed of the nokia store stuff21:48
tigertand how people handle the support stuff as well as the codes :(21:48
garrettFatal: was involved in linux.com way back in the day, been in #gimp and #gnome for many years, lots of other channels21:48
garretttigert: oh man, the store stuff still is giving me issues21:49
Fatalgarrett: mmm, it wasn't on those channels21:49
hubtigert: store.nokia.ca is down for 2 weeks now. that juste make things even more funny21:49
hubgarrett: at least you can order21:49
tigertFatal: garrett was always garrett21:49
hubgarrett: I'm uttely fucked21:49
tigertgarrett: you got the device though?21:49
garrettFatal: it could've been something else, but those are the most obvious ones I can think of21:49
garretthub: oh man21:49
keesjthis was my job http://exmachina.nl/jobs.php21:49
garretttigert: yeah, but they don't think I did sort of21:49
tigerthub: jimmac cannot order either, no shipping to .cz :(21:49
hubtigert: world globalization is clearly not for consumers21:50
Tak|workkeesj: doesn't look bad21:50
Fatalgarrett: was a wee bit more obscure, think a channel of friends only21:50
garrettcould be21:50
garrettI'm in a few of those, and have been in a few others in the past too21:50
tigerthub: yeah21:50
hubtigert: all in all, if I move back to Europe, it is back home21:50
garrettwas it with Trae, aka occy, aka OctobrX? (:21:50
tigerthub: you'd wonder how amazon.com does it? :)21:50
Fatalyeah21:50
keesjIt was fun , but I needed more "hard-core" programming21:50
hubtigert: not that I don't want to go to finland21:50
garrettok, then it is very, very possible then21:51
tigertI was thinking of Occy as well21:51
hubtigert: tigerdirect.ca sell them21:51
tigerthub: with GSM!21:51
tigert:)21:51
hubtigert: a coworker of mine got one before I got the discount21:51
garrettFatal: like #themes.org or something, or hmm... what was a name of one of those channels from way back? d:21:51
Fatalgarrett: naaah, nothing to do with the activities of you guys iirc21:52
Fatalthen again, high fever atm, might be mistakenn21:52
garrettyeah, understand21:52
garretthope you get better soon21:52
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garrettI remember a nick that had something to do with "fatal", but it's really fuzzy too21:53
hubtigert: anyway, I'll wait until not long before the discount expire, and if at that time the issue is not solved, I'll give it away through a blog post21:53
garrettkinda at work, multitasking toward a deadline d:21:53
Fatalheck, i bet it could even been named #occy or so, since the letter o popped into my head, but seems unlikely trae would have a channel named after himself, right?21:53
garrettah, yeah21:53
garretthe did, I think21:53
garrettat one point or another21:53
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garrettas many of our websites were on one of his machines way back when21:54
Fatalaaah21:54
garrett[mbm] was there too21:54
garretthttp://web.archive.org/web/20011127115615/http://occy.net/ <- the style is a little messed up I think21:54
garrettahhh hah artwiz! what happened to him?21:55
[mbm]heh21:55
garrettoh, and daz too21:55
[mbm]havent seen daz since #linuxhelp21:55
Fatalwonder where i stored all my irclogs21:55
* [mbm] really didn't keep in touch with anyone after linux.com folded21:56
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[mbm]kinda sucks that the site is mostly a mirror of newsforge now21:57
garrettyeah21:57
garretttotally21:57
konfoocorporate destruction22:01
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Suliswhich site is a mirror of newsforge?22:02
Fatalhaha, excellent, found irclogs from #xmms in 2001 anyway :D22:02
[mbm]Sulis: linux.com22:02
Sulisah right22:03
garrettFatal: haha22:03
* mgedmin almost never visits sites in .com22:03
[mbm]slashdot.com sucks22:04
Fatalgotcha22:04
Fatal-rw------- fatal/users   29462 2003-01-29 02:30 Irc/Misc Channels/#occy.net.20011221.log22:04
garrettheh22:04
Fatalwasn't too long ago then afterall22:05
Fatalonly 5-6 years22:05
garrett[mbm]: slashdot.net is the better than .com and especially .org22:05
mgedminthere's a slashdot.com?22:05
[mbm]garrett: hmm yeah22:05
maddlerdoh!22:05
[mbm]mgedmin: yeah but it's full of crap22:06
mgedminI see now "_22:06
mgedminer, :)22:06
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konfooi remember i had one interviewee that said slashdot when i asked what trade references do you read22:09
konfoo'ok son you can go now'22:10
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tigertslashdot is org22:11
Fatal"I only read it for the articles"  .. yeaaah right22:11
[mbm]konfoo: least you didn't say digg.com and youtube22:11
kulvetigert: btw. Thanks for the plankton theme. Looks nice.22:11
konfoo[mbm]: i didnt say anything, i was the one doing the interviewing :)22:12
tigertnp22:12
tigertI need to fix the remaining bugs22:12
Veggenmmmmh. ScummVM. It works....but...can one save the games?22:12
Veggen<---just lost ;)22:12
[mbm]konfoo: oops, read that backwards22:12
* [mbm] really can't think of any trade mags worth reading ..22:13
Tak|workI thought I was able to save my Fate of Atlantis game22:14
Tak|workalthough I'm not having any luck with doom saves :-(22:14
garrettVeggen: I believe so, but I don't know how to input the names so one can actually get to save them22:14
konfoo[mbm]: me neither :)22:14
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[mbm]Veggen: you just click save and it generates names automatically22:14
konfooembedded linux journal maybe22:14
Veggenah, I found.22:14
mgedminI only read slashdot for comments rated +5 funny22:15
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[mbm]konfoo: yeah I suppose, sadly I still have a wired subscription even though wired has been nothing but fluff for atleast the last decade22:15
konfoo[mbm]: indeed.. it has dropped to pretty much glorified advertisments22:17
[mbm]konfoo: yeah and without a free cuecat I really don't care for the ads22:17
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[mbm]makezine is cool but often reads like a kids magazine for their lack of technical depth22:18
sbaturzioAloha!22:18
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maddlerany clue on where to download scumm games? :)22:29
nomismaddler: when you're lucky you can get a collection of old lucasfilm games quite cheap.22:30
nomisI bought a big collection like 4 years ago for about 10 EUR or somethign.22:31
garrettmaddler: there are some free ones on scummvm's website22:31
Tak|workI still have my old copy of sam&max somewhere22:32
garrettiirc, scummvm has some sierra support now too22:32
garrettbut not (yet) in the n800, I believe22:33
glas5any sierra engines ported to maemo?22:33
maddlernomis: there was an abandonware site...22:33
konfoomaddler: abandonware sites22:33
konfooheh22:33
maddleroh... abandonia!!!22:33
maddlerand there was also thras* something...22:34
Tak|workooo, I wonder if the ultima underworld engine port ever achieved fruition22:34
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maddlerdamn... day of the tentacle cannot be downloaded...22:35
maddler:D22:35
glas5the games aren't really too hard to find22:35
Tak|workwow, somebody ported UU to pocketpc22:36
glas5or even torrents with all the games22:36
konfoomaddler http://torrentspy.com/download.asp?id=16331122:36
maddlerkonfoo: thx22:36
Suliswhat's UU?22:36
Tak|workultima underworld22:36
glas5uu rocks22:36
glas5great engine for it's time and a great game22:36
Tak|worktotally22:36
glas5broke a logitech pilot mouse with it..22:37
mgedminrandom thought: the 770 has the best user experience for configuring bluetooth dialup of any linux distro I've seen22:37
glas5yeah22:38
hubmgedmin: because it is not a linux distro22:38
hub;-)22:38
tigertmgedmin: I think it takes someone to look throuhg the use cases and design it22:38
tigertand then someone to do it22:38
Tak|workaw, the linux port uses opengl :-(22:38
tigertor, those two doing it together22:38
glas5tak: is it complete yet?22:38
SulisTak|work: what's wrong with using opengl?22:39
glas5speaking of which, is exult ported to maemo?22:39
mgedminwho else finds the wifi disconnect confimation dialog annoying?22:39
mgedminif I didn't mean it, I wouldn't have chosen disconnect from the menu, would I?22:39
Tak|work1) it's unnecessary in this case   2) that means little/no chance of it running on an IT22:39
glas5sulis: the original uu style engine would work faster on 77022:39
Tak|workmgedmin: I agree22:39
Sulisah-hah22:40
Tak|workit ran fine on dos with a 486sx/25 - it doesn't need accelerated 3d!22:40
tigertmgedmin: yeah, some stuff is asking too much with dialogs22:41
glas5uu1 ran fine on a 386sx..22:41
tigertmgedmin: we'll start a ui blog soon too22:41
mgedmincool22:41
tigertas observant people have noticed on garage22:41
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tigertit will hopefully make the stuff more conversation-like with you folks22:42
Tak|workyeah - "This team will be created soon"22:42
tigertits been so one-way22:42
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garrettthe notifications are annoying sometimes, and one has to wait, cannot dismiss them22:42
glas5exult(ultima 7 engine) should be quite easy to port22:42
garrettthey're useful too sometimes though22:42
konfooi always preferred the isometric and 2d ultima games22:43
tigertgarrett: yea, they appear over the thumb keyboard close button for example22:43
garrettheh fun22:43
Tak|workwould be nice to be able to dismiss the notifications with a tap22:43
garrettyeah22:44
garrettthat would be nice at least22:44
Tak|workor maybe a double-tap to reduce accidents22:44
garrettthe loading one, if one dismissed that, may be strange, as the thing isn't necessarily done loading22:45
garrettbut there could be some other notification of loading somewhere else22:45
tigertTak|work: tripletap followed by a double tap!!22:45
garrettplus, load times should be worked on anyway22:45
garretttigert: haha22:45
Tak|workhah, now you're reminding me of gaim22:45
mgedmin+1 for dismissing notifications with a tap22:45
garretttigert: then a tap-slide-tap-tap22:45
Tak|workthere used to be easter eggs if you would, like ctrl+double-middle-click on something22:45
mgedmingarrett: tap out "dismiss" in morse code22:46
tigertanyway, the blog and such will be interesting22:46
garrettTak: there is an easter egg in Red Hat Linux 8 and 9 kinda sorta like that22:46
Tak|workhmm - exult already runs on zaurus22:46
garrettmgedmin: yes!22:46
konfooanyone want to buy a zaurus? :)22:46
konfoo(speaking of)22:47
Tak|workthe "loading" one should be one of those dialogs with a progress bar / bouncing bar anyway, if the loading time is >1s22:48
mgedminprogress bar would be useful, if the time remaining can be estimated22:49
mgedminI do not see an advantage of a bouncing bar over the current throbber22:49
mgedminthe boot progress bar is nice22:49
Tak|workwell - I meant current bouncing bar, like when you change the bg image (iirc)22:50
garrettOH MAN22:50
Tak|workyeah @ boot/flash progress bar22:50
garrettchanging the background image SUCKS22:50
garrettit changes it and then the progress keeps going for another minute or two22:50
Tak|workyeah - why exactly does it take 60s to load an image?22:50
garrettand then you just stare at the cylon eye progress22:50
Tak|workparticularly when the image is actually loaded in the first 5s?22:50
mgedminiirc it's more than just loading, the system composes the status bar etc on top and compresses the result as a png22:50
garrettmgedmin: yes, but it finishes that in a couple seconds22:51
mgedminwhat does it do the rest of the time then?22:51
garrettplays 8,000 games of tic-tac-toe with itself?22:51
Tak|workhmm - is there a non-application-catalog faq on the new wiki?22:52
keesjJaffa: are you there?22:52
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tigertTak|work: its probably something we dont even want to know22:54
Tak|workheh22:54
tigertI noticed the same22:56
tigert"wtf, you just loaded it anyway.."22:56
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Tak|workdoesn't appear to hurt anything if you hit cancel after you can see the image...22:57
[mbm]hmm is it just me or does dropbear not start immediately after boot? seems like it doesn't start until I launch an xterm22:59
inz[mbm], check /etc/rc2.d/S??dropbear22:59
inz[mbm], it may very well be started after desktop (af-base-apps)23:00
[mbm]inz: all the init.d stuff looks fine; was the first thing I checked23:01
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kulvedropbear might suffer from too low entropy23:08
kulveI took a night in our very idle monahas board for dropbear to get enough random numbers to start up.. :)23:08
[mbm]I just get connections refused and then I fire up xterm to see what the problem is and the second xterm starts dropbear works23:08
kulveI've noticed too, that it starts(?) slowly..23:09
Tak|workdoes dropbear have any compelling advantage over openssh?23:09
kulvesmaller23:09
Disconnectsize23:09
kulvefewer dependencies23:09
kulveon n800, no real differencies..23:10
kulveimo23:10
[mbm]openssh is huge, although the n800 has more than enough space23:10
[mbm]dropbear gets used on routers with 2 and 4M of flash where every byte counts23:10
[mbm]and imho works just as well as openssh23:10
inz[mbm], maybe starting xterm creates 'nuff entropy for dropbear ;)23:11
kulvembm try linkin urandom to random (or was it vice versa) and try again23:11
[mbm]think I'll need to figure out a way to wire up serial console so I can poke around more23:11
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[mbm]saw the serial pinout on the wiki but I didn't see any good suggestions for a connector23:12
disqhot glue :P23:13
[mbm]I don't need wires dangling out of it when I'm going through TSA23:14
Tak|workas long as you don't put LEDs on it23:14
[mbm]believe me, I already have enough suspicious devices like that23:14
[mbm]what I need is some snap in connector with pogo pins23:15
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arjanyone got the new version of media streamer running on their n770?23:40
arjah works from new downloads.maemo.org page23:44
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ocnarfid8Anyone have a good case they recommend for the N800?  This slip on deal it came with is no protection for the screen.23:49
sxpertocnarfid8, I think nokia sells something similar to what they have for the 770 as an accessory23:49
arjdidn't seem to work :/23:50
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[mbm]think there was some preorder for a flap that folded over the screen and used magnets23:51
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ocnarfid8I just found that, doesn't seem like its substancial enough.23:52
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[mbm]ocnarfid8: there was a thread at internettablettalk about it23:52
ocnarfid8I want something that will protect it so I can put it in my pocket.23:52
[mbm]also mentioned using stuff like nintendo ds lite cases23:52
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[mbm]I'm still using the cloth sock with mine23:52
user_hi i am new to n800, that is a great tool23:52
Tak|workI just put mine in my pocket23:52
Tak|workit's the only thing there, though23:53
ocnarfid8http://picasaweb.google.com/thoughtfix/NokiaAdventures/photo#501945658670111673823:53
disqdslite case worked perfectly with my 770, will try it with the n800 right now in fact (well.. i kinda hanged it down my belt in E3)23:53
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ocnarfid8This puppy isn't going into my pocket until I find something to put it in. :)23:56
garrettocnarfid8: I use the slip-on thing myself, but I'm just careful and dedicate one whole pocket to the device23:57
ocnarfid8N800 belt buckle?  There's an idea heh.23:57
garrettocnarfid8: heh23:57
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garrettI have a DS Lite too23:57
garrettbut23:57
garrettI don't have a case for that23:58
garrettit flips together shut just fine, so it protects itself23:58
garrettI have a case for some extra ds games though...23:58
disqwell i don't have a ds/dslite23:58
ocnarfid8When I got the video ipod there were no cases out for it, by the time I got a case it was scratched quite a bit :|23:59
ocnarfid8Guess it will take a month or two before someone comes out with some decent cases.23:59
disqbtw you can even use the straps inside the case. the default themes have 24px gutters anyway :P23:59
garrettthat picture with the case is a little annoying, with the lady hovering her drink over the N80023:59
Sulisnokia sell a flip case for the n80023:59
garretts/case/flip cover/23:59
[mbm]ocnarfid8: well, keep the crappy sticker on the screen23:59

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