| Jaffa | qgil: true, but don't forget the pool of people who can hack on the lower levels, or those with UI ideas (which once released are often fixed) or, best of all, the pool of developers who are willing to put up with more flaws than a consumer to get a good product out at the end of it. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| cworth | Wow, and 2006 was a lot worse. | 00:00 |
| c0ffee | maemo-hackers, repo.m.o, and repo.m.o/extras/ should do the trick | 00:00 |
| Jaffa | qgil: but I don't envy your job - fun as it sounds ;-) | 00:00 |
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| suihkulokki | Jaffa: re closed planning, I think the only way it could be changed would actually have a open source platform (aka maemo) being developed, and new siikrit products would be created on top of maemo releases | 00:00 |
| cworth | What's the reason for all these separate repositories? And what can we do to get this much much closer to 1? | 00:00 |
| suihkulokki | currently the situation is oppisite (meamo relases are based on product releases) | 00:00 |
| cworth | (And preferably, just a checkbox away on the default install...) | 00:01 |
| Jaffa | suihkulokki: Agreed, that's my conclusion too. But I can see the many problems arguing that from an internal Nokia business perspectice. | 00:01 |
| * sp3000 slaps the wiki | 00:01 | |
| tko | cworth, we already have the extras repository where people can upload packages.. but they don't :-/ | 00:01 |
| Jaffa | cworth: the process for uploading to the extras repository needs to be improved. | 00:01 |
| suihkulokki | cworth: well, you need to ask maemo-hackers people why they stick at their own repo | 00:01 |
| qgil | Jaffa: I'm not underestimating all the HELP Nokia is getting from the community, I'm only saying that the best way to get this help (IMO) is exchanging help: | 00:01 |
| tko | lack of publicity I suppose | 00:01 |
| cworth | tko: Can we just copy all the packages from all these repositories into extras and then remove the listings from the wiki? | 00:02 |
| Jaffa | tko: I uploaded my first packages early last week but they've not appeared and I've had to feedback. | 00:02 |
| * Jaffa needs to poke ferenc tomorrow. | 00:02 | |
| c0ffee | poke him a bit from me, too :) | 00:02 |
| qgil | the community helps Nokia doing this by helping themselves in their own developments, and Nokia helps the community supporting this and that, and providing great tools for developers (this last bit falls under my responsibility and I know we are not in the best of the scenarios now) | 00:02 |
| c0ffee | btw | 00:03 |
| c0ffee | it would have been very interesting, if the developer device mails included a paragraph 'you have been selected because ...' | 00:03 |
| tko | cworth, if someone was willing to spend the time to do it, and agree with the maintainers, I guess | 00:03 |
| qgil | c0ffee: how long would it take for you to write this paragraph once? | 00:03 |
| Jaffa | qgil: sounds good. One of the things which has been bugging me since gregale was announced (but I've not yet fully formed, so forgive me if this is half-baked) is related to what tko said earlier. All these different code names (which end up being different repositories) all for Maemo 2.x is a mistake. I'd suggest keeping all Maemo 3.x releases as "bora" | 00:04 |
| c0ffee | qgil, don't tell me you memorized all the reasons or did it using post-it notes :) I'd think such information is available in digital form | 00:04 |
| qgil | Jaffa: copy this and paste it in an email answering my thread in maemo-developers, please | 00:04 |
| Jaffa | c0ffee: yeah, but you'd want to write it in public-facing, polite, corporate-speak. | 00:05 |
| c0ffee | qgil, it's more or less another formulation for 'we need help-wanted notes from maemo' | 00:05 |
| Jaffa | qgil: will do: I'll sleep on it and perhaps be more cogent in the morning :) | 00:05 |
| Jaffa | get this help (IMO) | 00:05 |
| Jaffa | is exchanging help: | 00:05 |
| Jaffa | <tko> lack of publicity I suppose | 00:05 |
| Jaffa | Doh. | 00:05 |
| Jaffa | Damn copy buffer. | 00:05 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, bed time now. | 00:05 |
| c0ffee | g'n8 jaffa | 00:06 |
| keesj | tko, I have not been able to upload because of the gpg stuff, I have almost become a debian package engineer. not every body can find the time to create great software and package and upload it | 00:06 |
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| qgil | Jaffa: be tough, please | 00:06 |
| henryykt | hi everyone | 00:06 |
| MDK | tko: what do you mean? | 00:06 |
| cworth | qgil: As for "great tools for developers", even before quality, I think it's really important to see some of the fundamental tools, (flasher and things needed to bring the device up "from scratch" be made open). | 00:06 |
| tko | keesj, I know | 00:06 |
| MDK | tko: icon sizes? | 00:06 |
| qgil | c0ffee: I'm happy saving as many minutes as possible delivering those 500 devices - anyway there is not always a clear reason | 00:06 |
| tko | MDK, the warnings in the console | 00:06 |
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| tko | MDK, and if you fix the warnings, icons disappear from TN menus.. whoops | 00:07 |
| c0ffee | qgil, i can imagine :) | 00:07 |
| qgil | cworth: email to the list replying my thread :) | 00:07 |
| cworth | qgil: In order to create some fundamental community momentum, that community has to be able to see itself as being self-sufficient. | 00:07 |
| c0ffee | reminds me, of something i could note as well | 00:07 |
| henryykt | it seems that on N800 gdk_devices_list() also returns Touchscreen as device. Is this expected behaviour? | 00:07 |
| cworth | qgil: Which thread? | 00:07 |
| * cworth doesn't read maemo-developers religiously | 00:07 | |
| MDK | tko: hmmm, didn't notice that. I tested with the example (hildon-icon-sizes-example) and it worked fine | 00:07 |
| qgil | cworth: yes, I know :) the problem comes when we ware dealing with a project with hardware and sales involved, and the community is not going to be self-.sufficient there ever (or not in this century, at least) | 00:08 |
| tko | MDK, sure, but the menu icons and other stuff is borked | 00:08 |
| MDK | hmm | 00:08 |
| MDK | will check tomorrow | 00:08 |
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| qgil | cworth: http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-January/007527.html | 00:09 |
| MDK | could it be the general icon sizes borkage? | 00:09 |
| cworth | qgil: Well, for "self sufficient", I mean that the community could go on playing with an "obsolete" device, (as far as sales are concerned), indefinitely. | 00:09 |
| tko | MDK, no, it's just that gtk does not know how to parse FALSE for boolean properties, you need to use 0 .. duh! | 00:09 |
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| tko | MDK, I've made a bunch of changes to gtkrc again.. I'll probably commit the obvious ones tomorrow | 00:10 |
| qgil | cworth: yes, this could be a reasonable aim - however the 770 is being still sold - and inside you have many hardware/software components that not even Nokia can open since don't belong to them - I'm not excusing Nokia, just providing some details about the complexity behind | 00:11 |
| MDK | tko: ok. I've got the hildon-calendar patch all done so we can get the legal stuff rolling | 00:11 |
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| tko | MDK, I also triggered another menu flickering problem.. but on the bright side, I have menus scrolling :) | 00:12 |
| qgil | alright, it's getting late here, and I'm one of the first ones stepping in our office in the morning | 00:12 |
| tko | qgil, even before karl? | 00:13 |
| c0ffee | if you want to be credible as an open-source guy, you must not appear at work before 3pm | 00:13 |
| tko | heh | 00:13 |
| qgil | please, make clear what are you deepest desires around the development platform, in the maemo-developers list, the most specific and pragmatical you are the easier will be to us to move things forward | 00:13 |
| qgil | tko: I'm at 7am there | 00:14 |
| nomis | I put a HildonHVolumeBar into a Menuitem, which in turn gets added to a MenuShell. However, Clicks on it just close the menu, how can I pass the clicks through to the embedded widget? | 00:14 |
| tko | qgil, wow | 00:14 |
| c0ffee | already flooding your with mails, qgil :) | 00:14 |
| cworth | qgil: Right. One problem is that no rationale exists for each of the closed source parts. Why's the flasher not open for example? (Not that I'm asking you for an answer for that now, but that's a question Nokia could address---and similarly for each other piece.) | 00:14 |
| c0ffee | cworth, it contains and very secret protocol for flashing from TI | 00:15 |
| c0ffee | nobody could just sniff it | 00:15 |
| cworth | It would definitely be great to see an image that could be built and flashed with entirely open source/tools, (even if it didn't lead to full funcitonality of all components of the device). | 00:15 |
| c0ffee | or pipe the whole flasher through ida4l | 00:15 |
| qgil | cworth: this is another reasonable request | 00:15 |
| c0ffee | i already sent it :) | 00:15 |
| c0ffee | <- first | 00:15 |
| qgil | thanks | 00:16 |
| qgil | and good night | 00:16 |
| c0ffee | good fight | 00:16 |
| c0ffee | good night | 00:16 |
| qgil | good right | 00:16 |
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| henryykt | exit | 00:37 |
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| c0ffee | gn8 | 00:46 |
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| nomis | Is the code for brightness/volume applet really closed? Or do I miss something obvious? | 00:58 |
| nomis | I'd really like to know if the menu that they pop up really is a menu or something else. And if it is a menu, how the volume bar got integrated. | 00:59 |
| timely | give me a few | 00:59 |
| timely | hildon=status-bar-display ? | 01:00 |
| timely | doesn't seem to be open source :( | 01:00 |
| timely | there's a real menu from the looks | 01:01 |
| timely | you should be bale to use a gtk inspection tool to determine this :) | 01:01 |
| nomis | I really don't get it. That really should be simple code and could serve very well as example for other applets. Oh well. | 01:01 |
| timely | the code won't have a comment saying "this isn't open source because XXX" | 01:02 |
| nomis | :) | 01:02 |
| timely | unless it's "this include code from <XXX>" | 01:02 |
| nomis | actually I believe I am at 80% replicating the functionality. It is just that the embedded volumebar/controlbar do not actually work, because the menu eats the mouseclick. | 01:03 |
| timely | it seems to be a HILDON_CONTROLBAR whatever that is | 01:03 |
| nomis | timely: oh, that widget is publicly available. | 01:03 |
| nomis | timely: I use it already. | 01:03 |
| timely | oh, i'm not saying it isn't | 01:03 |
| timely | just that it's 1am and i'd rather not look it up and indeed assume you can look it up :) | 01:04 |
| nomis | timely: the problem for me right now is: Is it embedded into a GtkMenuItem? Or is the stuff that pops up not a Menu? | 01:04 |
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| timely | hrm | 01:06 |
| timely | looks like it's a window | 01:06 |
| timely | with a menu hint, a menuitem, menu packing | 01:06 |
| timely | and your contorl | 01:06 |
| timely | ie.no it isn't in a menu | 01:06 |
| timely | hrm, superbowl started | 01:07 |
| timely | did i miss any good commercials? | 01:07 |
| nomis | timely: hmm, ok. | 01:08 |
| nomis | timely: thanks. That at least eases my mind, although it means more work :) | 01:08 |
| timely | not sure how one goes about asking if this stuff could be open sourced | 01:08 |
| timely | i think wha tyou should do is find the public contact from the debian package and ask them :) | 01:08 |
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| timely | the info is in debian/control | 01:09 |
| * timely goes back to solaris | 01:09 | |
| nomis | timely: thanks. | 01:09 |
| timely | oh | 01:10 |
| * timely ponder | 01:10 | |
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| timely | if i'm not in the us, do i not get us commercials? | 01:11 |
| timely | that'd suck | 01:11 |
| timely | the only good part about the superbowl is the commercials | 01:11 |
| timely | is anyone streaming the american superbowl feed? :( | 01:11 |
| Milhous1 | Cheerleaders are nice :) | 01:14 |
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| Milhous1 | I hope they explain the rules, I don't have a flipping clue! | 01:16 |
| timely | if there's a controversy, they'll explain | 01:17 |
| timely | 4 downs to get 10 yards | 01:18 |
| timely | usually if you aren't close enough or under enough pressure, you punt on the 4th down | 01:18 |
| timely | if you don't make 10 yards progress from the original first down position w/in 4 downs, it's a turnover on downs, and the other team gets possession at the spot of the last down | 01:19 |
| Milhous1 | Thanks. How often do the cheerleaders come out? | 01:19 |
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| timely | you can score 6pts for a touchdown (td), 3 for a field goal (fg), 2 for a safety (tackling the offense in their own endzone) | 01:20 |
| timely | extra points after touchdown are either 1 (normal, by kicking), or 2 (another play to get the ball to the endzone) | 01:20 |
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| Milhous1 | So it's like rugby, I'll go with the Colts - are they any good? | 01:20 |
| timely | technical play time is 1 hr, in 4 quarters | 01:21 |
| timely | don't ask me? | 01:21 |
| timely | i've been on the wrong side of the globe for the better half of the year | 01:21 |
| jaebird | colts are favored by most | 01:21 |
| jaebird | bears haven't been since the mid 80s | 01:21 |
| timely | besides, i haven't followed NFL in years | 01:21 |
| timely | yuck | 01:21 |
| timely | my announcers are speaking finnish | 01:21 |
| timely | could someone *please* find me an american stream? | 01:22 |
| timely | anyway, every quarter the teams switch sides (and orientation) | 01:22 |
| Milhous1 | I've got Don 'miami vice' Johnson here (Sky, UK) | 01:22 |
| timely | for the 2nd and 4th quarters, the ball actually moves to the symetric location | 01:23 |
| timely | for the 1st and 3rd quarters, the ball is kicked by one team to the other (kickoff) | 01:23 |
| timely | there's a coin toss that determines who choses if they are kicked or kick the ball for the first quarter | 01:23 |
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| timely | the other team does the honors for the 3rd quarter | 01:23 |
| Milhous1 | I feel like an American watching football and not understanding the off-side rule | 01:24 |
| timely | after most scores there's another kickoff | 01:24 |
| timely | you mean for hockey? :) | 01:24 |
| timely | the offside rules in football aren't too complicated | 01:24 |
| timely | you're offside if you're across the line of scrimage when the ball is snapped | 01:24 |
| timely | depending on whether you have a good video feed or a sucky one, you might get a nice digital yellow stripe showing that line | 01:25 |
| Milhous1 | Nice looking stadium - Indianopolis | 01:26 |
| timely | anyway, time generally runs until the 2 minute warning | 01:26 |
| timely | (which iirc is per half) | 01:26 |
| timely | each team gets 3 timeouts per half | 01:27 |
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| Milhous1 | I'll try and stick with this Superbowl, have fallen asleep during the previous finals I've watched | 01:27 |
| timely | time stops for injuries, first downs, penalties (?), and sometimes running out of bounds or incomplete passes | 01:27 |
| Milhous1 | Someone just scored from kick off | 01:28 |
| timely | yep | 01:28 |
| Milhous1 | Hester? | 01:28 |
| timely | nice run | 01:28 |
| * timely shrugs, the names don't mean anything to me :) | 01:28 | |
| Milhous1 | Was rather | 01:28 |
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| timely | anyway, that's the basics | 01:29 |
| timely | there are penalties for pass interference, holding, roughing the quarter back, too many/few men on the field | 01:29 |
| |tbb| | 92 yards touch down | 01:30 |
| timely | offsides, failing to snap the ball before the 30s clock runs out | 01:30 |
| timely | s/yards/yard/ | 01:30 |
| timely | don't ask why :) | 01:30 |
| timely | (it's a 92 yard touch down [run]) | 01:30 |
| Milhous1 | Bugger, Hester plays for the Bears - not good! Go Colts! :) | 01:30 |
| timely | oh, and it looks like the coverage includes a digital frist down marker | 01:31 |
| Milhous1 | Blue line? | 01:32 |
| timely | oh, false starts | 01:32 |
| timely | false starts are basically after an offensive player is set (hands in position) and moves | 01:32 |
| timely | blue line is line of scrimage | 01:32 |
| timely | yellow is first down marker | 01:33 |
| timely | (which is how far you have to get to get your next first down) | 01:33 |
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| Milhous1 | Right, thanks | 01:33 |
| timely | penalties range from 5, 10, 15 yards in general | 01:33 |
| timely | with changes when you're w/in 2yrds of the endzone | 01:33 |
| timely | iow you can't score based on a penalty | 01:33 |
| timely | so they switch to half the distance if the normal thing would be too much | 01:34 |
| timely | (half the distance [to the goal line]) | 01:34 |
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| timely | interception | 01:34 |
| timely | ok, turnovers can happen in a number of fun wyas: | 01:34 |
| timely | 1. interception | 01:34 |
| timely | 2. fumble | 01:34 |
| timely | 3. loss of down | 01:35 |
| timely | 4. kickoffs | 01:35 |
| Milhous1 | Think I need to watch this more often to get the hang of the rules | 01:35 |
| Milhous1 | Wtf??? Commercial break | 01:35 |
| timely | for a normal kickoff there's a guy who | 01:35 |
| timely | oh, cheer leaders would be visible during some of those breaks, but you might not see them because of coverage :) | 01:35 |
| Milhous1 | Nooooooooo..... | 01:36 |
| timely | anyway, for a normal kickoff, there are two people who are likely to receive the ball | 01:36 |
| timely | and they have a choice of either indicating fair catch, or planning to run with it | 01:36 |
| timely | if they indicate fair catch, then you can't run into them, and they can't run | 01:36 |
| timely | if they don't, then the opposite :) | 01:36 |
| Milhous1 | Would be cool if a Nokia N800 commercial came on! | 01:37 |
| timely | but if the ball hits one of the receiving team's players, and it isn't fair catch (?), then the other team can grab it | 01:37 |
| timely | what's the going rate for a commercial this year? | 01:37 |
| timely | 2-3million for 30s? | 01:37 |
| timely | nokia doesn't have the budget | 01:37 |
| timely | and i won't see it anyway :( | 01:37 |
| Milhous1 | Catch and run away with it? | 01:37 |
| timely | run or down it, yeah | 01:37 |
| timely | (downing is a technical term) | 01:38 |
| Milhous1 | Yeah 2m would be better spent on developing better software :) | 01:38 |
| Milhous1 | Yay cheerleaders on Sky.... | 01:39 |
| timely | http://www.nfl.com/fieldpass | 01:40 |
| timely | i'm upgrading to an american audio stream | 01:40 |
| Milhous1 | 'I love the British accent' lol | 01:40 |
| Milhous1 | This is more like it | 01:41 |
| timely | yeah, someone suggestion the bbc feed | 01:42 |
| timely | s/ion/ed/ | 01:42 |
| Andy80 | do you know if "gmediaserver" for Linux is compatible with "Media Streamer" for N770? | 01:43 |
| Andy80 | they both should support UpNP standard... but I cannot make media streamer work.. | 01:44 |
| Milhous1 | ITV in the UK also showing Superbowl | 01:45 |
| Milhous1 | Though I avoid ITV like the plague (except for Formula 1) | 01:45 |
| timely | url? | 01:46 |
| Milhous1 | Sorry, broadcasting - not sure if they are streaming try itv.co.uk | 01:47 |
| timely | france2 seems to have it too | 01:48 |
| timely | but i don't get that | 01:48 |
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| timely | anywa, that's most of the major rules | 01:49 |
| Milhous1 | Appreciated | 01:49 |
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| Milhous1 | I reckon I could have scored that first goal though ;) | 01:50 |
| timely | ooo, nice fumble | 01:51 |
| timely | well, you've now seen both fumbles and interceptions :) | 01:51 |
| Milhous1 | Very careless | 01:51 |
| timely | it's kinda like pool | 01:51 |
| Milhous1 | They get very excited by fumbles | 01:52 |
| timely | of course, it's raining fairly heavily | 01:52 |
| timely | but that's nowhere near as much fun as the icebowl | 01:52 |
| Milhous1 | Colts defence is non existant | 01:53 |
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| timely | basically the general scoring progression is 7 each side alternating | 01:53 |
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| timely | your best way to win is by getting an extra scoring possession by a turnover | 01:53 |
| Disconnect | quit it, i'm behind realtime (hidef mythbox) | 01:53 |
| Milhous1 | Lol sorry disconect | 01:53 |
| * timely is listening to the official audio which is like 1 play behind the video here :( | 01:54 | |
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| Milhous1 | More commercials!!! | 01:55 |
| timely | time for a snack | 01:56 |
| Milhous1 | Same here | 01:56 |
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| Disconnect | wow someone needs to dry off that ball | 01:59 |
| Disconnect | (yes i'm that far behind) | 01:59 |
| timely | heh | 01:59 |
| timely | not much point, it's raining heavily | 02:00 |
| Disconnect | yah but back to back fumbles is a bit much | 02:00 |
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| timely | note that rain will usually mean more running since passing is even more risky | 02:00 |
| timely | at least, i believe that's right, i really haven't paid attn to football in nearly a decade | 02:01 |
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| Milhous1 | Disconnect: Blimey, how far behind are you? | 02:06 |
| timely | i'd say he's 5-10mins back | 02:08 |
| Milhous1 | Play time here is: 1:40 | 02:08 |
| Milhous1 | Just stopped | 02:08 |
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| Milhous1 | Bears looking good to win this at the moment | 02:09 |
| Disconnect | Milhous1: 38 mins out of 45 right now. so about 8 mins | 02:11 |
| Disconnect | 2:58 here | 02:11 |
| Disconnect | it'll go up and down (got ribs on the smoker so i have to pause it periodically to go tweak them) | 02:11 |
| Disconnect | its amazing how many channels are mostly talking about the game right now | 02:12 |
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| Milhous1 | Got two showing it here but to be honest nobody really cares for it, suspect it's a nice filler for the overnight schedule | 02:13 |
| nomis | bah, that sucks. The stuff I have on screen right now does not behave right at all. Gah. | 02:14 |
| Milhous1 | First quarter over | 02:15 |
| Milhous1 | Bring on the cheerleaders!!!! | 02:15 |
| nomis | Do I now have to put the Menuitem inside a Button to make it react to clicks or what? Grgh. | 02:16 |
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| timely | nomis: i didn't see a button | 02:26 |
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| nomis | just weird. | 02:27 |
| nomis | oh well. I'll have a fresh look at it tomorrow. | 02:27 |
| nomis | I guess I have to grab the pointer as well, and manually hide the window if a click has happened and all that kind of stuff a menu does at free will. Grgh. | 02:29 |
| Milhous1 | Any chance of a 'wardrobe failure' at half time? | 02:29 |
| Milhous1 | Weather is geting worse by the look of things | 02:31 |
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| s-ndh-c | hm | 03:04 |
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| s-ndh-c | those mono tarbals from the new wiki entry work well on my n770 device | 03:13 |
| s-ndh-c | but i cant get this mono-devkit working in my scratchbox target | 03:14 |
| alp | ok, i'm updating my hildon c# binding. it dates from 2005-10-24 -- has there been any restructuring in library naming since then? | 03:14 |
| s-ndh-c | [sbox-i386: ~] > mono | 03:15 |
| s-ndh-c | /scratchbox/devkits/mono/bin/mono: /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found (required by /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/libgthread-2.0.so.0) | 03:15 |
| s-ndh-c | it allways gives me that | 03:15 |
| alp | i'm guessing at least libhildonwidgets has changed | 03:16 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: isnt there a changelog from 1.1 to 2.x? | 03:17 |
| alp | ChangeLog was empty | 03:17 |
| s-ndh-c | hehe | 03:17 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 03:17 |
| alp | i see hildon-lgpl is obsolete | 03:18 |
| alp | the binding used to cover hildonlgpl, hildonwidgets and hildonfm | 03:18 |
| s-ndh-c | MDK: any idea what i might have done wrong? | 03:23 |
| lle2 | s-ndh-c: have you copied libgthread from your host system to /scratchbox/host_shared/...? | 03:32 |
| s-ndh-c | lle2: yeag | 03:32 |
| lle2 | it seems to be built against a newer glibc than what sb provides | 03:32 |
| s-ndh-c | iam running ubuntu edgy | 03:33 |
| s-ndh-c | i just copied those from /usr/lib of my host system | 03:33 |
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| lle2 | you could try getting those libs from debian/sarge, I think. | 03:34 |
| s-ndh-c | i can see in /scratchbox/host-shared/ the libc.so.6 is a link to libc-2.3.2 | 03:34 |
| s-ndh-c | lle2: ok will try that | 03:34 |
| s-ndh-c | anyways time to sleep | 03:35 |
| lle2 | or rebuilding them inside sb, using the host target | 03:35 |
| s-ndh-c | you mean download libglib and compile that in the host target? | 03:36 |
| s-ndh-c | and then copy the resulting bins to host-shared/lib? | 03:36 |
| lle2 | for example | 03:37 |
| lle2 | or to /host_usr/lib inside sb | 03:37 |
| s-ndh-c | will try that tommorrow | 03:37 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 03:37 |
| s-ndh-c | thx for the hint, maybe that works out | 03:37 |
| lle2 | /host_usr is the "official" end-user installed tools dir | 03:38 |
| s-ndh-c | i see | 03:39 |
| s-ndh-c | will give that a whirl | 03:39 |
| lle2 | I never quite understood how the sb devkit thing works so I keep dumping my own stuff to /host_usr | 03:40 |
| s-ndh-c | but as i can just use my host to compile c# programs its not a blocker not to get mono work inside the sb env, it might get more interesting to get it working inside sb when alp has done a new hildon binding | 03:42 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 03:42 |
| s-ndh-c | time to sleep | 03:42 |
| s-ndh-c | cya guys | 03:42 |
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| Tak | do I need a g_main_loop() for osso_hw_set_event_cb to work? | 04:13 |
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| alp | i updated the hildon binding at http://www.ndesk.org/nbind/ -- there are a few parser fixups but i haven't checked coverage yet | 04:20 |
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| Tak | apparently the answer is "yes" | 04:45 |
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| Milhous1 | How can Indianapolis be World Champions when no other country is involved?! V. funny.... | 05:23 |
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| Tak | what other country would want to be involved in american football? | 05:54 |
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| JoshTriplett | If I want to create a program with two main views (choosing a recording and playing a recording), how should I do that? Two HildonWindow objects? One HildonWindow with a gtk.Notebook and hide the tabs? Something else entirely? | 06:03 |
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| JoshTriplett | Do I want to repopulate my HildonWindow with controls for each view each time you switch? | 06:04 |
| JoshTriplett | Or should I keep two top-level containers around, and reparent one or the other into the window? | 06:04 |
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| Tak | IMO you should have one container populated with each set | 06:15 |
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| JoshTriplett | Tak: OK. That makes sense. | 06:18 |
| JoshTriplett | Also, if I want to manage a list of servers to connect to, what UI makes the most sense for that? A single "manage servers" dialog with buttons for "new", "delete", and "connect"? Or a menu listing all the servers and a "new" item at the bottom? In the latter case, how should deletion work? How can I make a menu with an X icon at the right edge like the Home menu? | 06:22 |
| Tak | maybe similar to xchat's server list? | 06:25 |
| JoshTriplett | Haven't tried xchat yet. :) | 06:26 |
| Tak | ah - it has a listbox with the servers, and buttons for add, edit, remove, connect | 06:27 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: Similar to the Application Catalog dialog in the Application Manager, but with Edit in place of Details, and a Connect button? | 06:28 |
| Tak | yeah | 06:29 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: Should I pop it up and auto-open the New dialog the first time you open the application? | 06:29 |
| Tak | if a server's required, then probably | 06:29 |
| JoshTriplett | Yeah. | 06:29 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: Writing an application to use the N800 as a MythTV remote, using the MythFrontend telnet interface. | 06:30 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: Naturally, you need a frontend. :) | 06:30 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: Hmmm. Since the application allows only one frontend at a time, perhaps I should use a combobox. Same buttons at the bottom, but it might make the dialog a bit less overwhelming for the common case of having only one frontend. | 06:33 |
| JoshTriplett | This seems like such a common pattern, perhaps Hildon should supply a standard dialog for managing a list of items; you supply it with a means of popping up a dialog for an individual item, and a function to summarize an item, and it gives you the add/edit/delete, and optionally a "use this one" button like "connect". | 06:37 |
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| Tak | new fceu layout coming: http://xmame.garage.maemo.org/images/zelda.png | 07:10 |
| disq | yawn | 07:14 |
| disq | morning | 07:14 |
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| JoshTriplett | Tak: Nice. | 07:32 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: One thought, though: | 07:32 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: You can already get to "save" and "load" via the hardware keys. | 07:32 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: And if you moved the video output to the far left, you'd have room on the right for two columns of buttons. | 07:33 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: That would allow the traditional button layout of the NES controller, with B to the left of A. | 07:33 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: And Select to the left of Start. | 07:34 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: You could then put "screenshot" and "quit" on the bottom row, leaving a blank row so people don't hit them accidentally while playing. | 07:34 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: Or alternatively, you might consider putting B and A on the bottom, select and start above that, and quit in the traditional upper-right. | 07:36 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: Just my opinion, as someone who used the original NES controller, and had a hard time with B above A rather than to the left. | 07:36 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: For instance, with the original controller, you could hold B with part of your thumb, and press and release A with the rest of your thumb; hence, Mario used B to run and A to jump, so you could run constantly and jump when needed. | 07:39 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: I can't seem to manage that with the fceu layout, though admittedly I didn't try it for very long. | 07:39 |
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| JoshTriplett | Tak: What do you think? | 07:42 |
| Tak | hmm | 07:44 |
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| Tak | I still do that, just with my thumb vertical | 07:44 |
| Tak | like you had to with Y+B on snes | 07:45 |
| Tak | it also felt awkward to me holding the 770 so that my right thumb was horizontal | 07:45 |
| Tak | additionally, I'm planning to change the hw keys to volume change | 07:46 |
| c0ffee | moin | 07:46 |
| imawinar | mooin | 07:47 |
| Tak | thoin? | 07:47 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: Hmmm, I see your point. Y+B on the SNES actually felt more comfortable than B+A on the NES, because of the downward angle. But vertical feels less comfortable to me than horizontal, which feels less comfortable than downward angle. | 07:47 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: And angles take up lots of space... | 07:47 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: And configurability here seems like massive overkill. :) | 07:48 |
| Tak | indeed | 07:48 |
| Tak | it seems like inadvertently hitting sel or start would be more likely if they were horizontal | 07:50 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: And I wouldn't hold the original NES controller up as a model of ergonomic design. :) | 07:50 |
| Tak | you mean people's hands aren't completely square and horizontal?! ;-) | 07:51 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: Out of curiosity, does the directional control allow you to move diagonally? | 07:54 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: Does it register two directions at once? | 07:54 |
| Tak | yes, you can move diagonally | 07:55 |
| c0ffee | the hw keys only send one keypress at a time afaik | 07:55 |
| Tak | although it only registers one keypress | 07:55 |
| Tak | you can even throw your boomerang diagonally in zelda | 07:55 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: So you get "right pressed" then "down pressed" and you treat that as "down-right", then you get "right released" and you start sending the game "down" instead? | 07:56 |
| Tak | I didn't have to hack that part of the code at all, actually | 07:57 |
| Tak | it just worked as-is | 07:57 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: Makes sense; I guess a keyboard does work the same way. :) | 07:57 |
| Tak | hmm - I don't suppose there's any handy-dandy implementation-independent ossolike way to adjust the volume? | 08:00 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: System volume? Dunno. | 08:00 |
| JoshTriplett | Tak: But thanks for actually using system volume, rather than an independent volume control like the media player does. :) | 08:01 |
| Tak | don't thank me yet ;-) | 08:01 |
| imawinar | it's not an issue with 770, but frequently indep volume is good | 08:03 |
| imawinar | for e.g. you are playing background music and want to regulate your foreground app's volume | 08:04 |
| gpd | fyi - the i-blue 2 works perfectly with maemo-mapper :D | 08:18 |
| gpd | had the tablet stuck to the windscreen with a universal pda adapter - and had maps on the go | 08:19 |
| Tak | nice | 08:22 |
| Tak | is there a list of supported devices on the mapper site? | 08:23 |
| Tak | hooray, random reboot | 08:24 |
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| imawinar | never saw that on a 770 | 08:25 |
| Tak | hmm, watchdog reset | 08:25 |
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| JoshTriplett | I've hit at least two of those, both when playing media. | 08:27 |
| JoshTriplett | I've heard some stories of DSP-related lockups on the N800. | 08:28 |
| JoshTriplett | s/heard/read/ | 08:28 |
| Tak | so the stuff in /var/lib/dsme/lifeguard_resets is what caused the watchdog to go off? | 08:31 |
| Tak | my fiancee says it does it when playing media | 08:31 |
| Tak | in this case, it was just sitting there idle | 08:32 |
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| imawinar | hmm | 09:05 |
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| keesj | Mögge! | 09:27 |
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| timely | Do you want this directory created now [y,n,?,q] ? | 10:50 |
| timely | ERROR: Please enter yes or no. | 10:50 |
| timely | oops | 10:50 |
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| Feral_Kid | Does anyone know of a good how-to to get mapper up and running properly? | 11:17 |
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| tigert | search internettablettalk forums for maemo mapper | 11:18 |
| tigert | it has stuff about how to set it up | 11:18 |
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| Feral_Kid | tigert> Thanks, just found my way over there... | 11:19 |
| Feral_Kid | tigert> Of course, now I have lost focus as I sit here reading about OS2007... :) | 11:20 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:23 |
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| Feral_Kid | Oh joy... Just when I get my 770 working somewhat decently, I find that there is no real upgrade path to enjoy OS2007... | 11:25 |
| Jaffa | Feral_Kid: OS2007 for 770's first release happened last week (still beta, unsuported etc.) | 11:25 |
| maddler | morning... | 11:25 |
| Feral_Kid | Jaffa> Ah, I missed that... | 11:26 |
| Feral_Kid | Jaffa> internettablettalk makes it sound like OS2007 is only for the N800... | 11:28 |
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| Feral_Kid | I do hope that they get BT working so I can finally use my headset... | 11:28 |
| Jaffa | Feral_Kid: | 11:29 |
| Jaffa | Feral_Kid: http://www.notacloud.com/blog/?p=27 | 11:29 |
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| Feral_Kid | Jaffa> Thanks for that... Heh, ok... When will we get a generic VOIP client! :P | 11:33 |
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| bedboi | hi there | 12:31 |
| maddler | heya bedboi! | 12:33 |
| bedboi | hey maddler | 12:33 |
| bedboi | anyone is aware of wxwidget packages? | 12:33 |
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| imawinar | mmm | 13:03 |
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| X-Fade | Hmm it seems that invisible input boxes are 'desired presentation for the | 13:06 |
| X-Fade | current theme | 13:06 |
| X-Fade | on Nokia N800 ;) | 13:06 |
| VRe | Is the theme n800 giving bit more screen estate for the programs or does it only look like that? | 13:07 |
| X-Fade | https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1008 | 13:07 |
| X-Fade | VRe: I think even less than on 770.. | 13:07 |
| X-Fade | VRe: The bar at the top has grown a few pixels in height.. | 13:08 |
| VRe | That bar or left looked thinner | 13:08 |
| X-Fade | VRe: No, it is the same width. | 13:09 |
| Veggen | Jaffa: btw - have I got the wrong repository, or do we still lack the mud-builder packages in the extras-repository? | 13:13 |
| Veggen | (been looking for them, because there's a few packages I'm waiting for, there) | 13:13 |
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| keesj | who tried the it2007 on the n770? | 13:24 |
| keesj | is it as stable at the n880 release ? | 13:24 |
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| Jaffa | Veggen: correct. | 13:26 |
| keesj | Jaffa: What do you think about adding a home url / screenshot to the mud package format? | 13:27 |
| tigert | X-Fade: yea, the combobox is supposed to be like a line | 13:36 |
| tigert | X-Fade: to make it look different from the select pulldown where you cannot type | 13:37 |
| tigert | but its kinda backwards, I agree | 13:37 |
| tigert | since all other input fields have a frame | 13:37 |
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| tigert | so this one is just different | 13:37 |
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| c0ffee | puh | 13:41 |
| c0ffee | what mailing list am i subscribed to now? | 13:41 |
| c0ffee | and which new do i have to subscribe to | 13:41 |
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| maddler | checked google already? :D | 13:42 |
| Jaffa | keesj: good idea - will help when it comes to auto application-catalogue updating. | 13:45 |
| X-Fade | tigert: But you _can_ type in it.. | 13:47 |
| X-Fade | tigert: it is both text input and select.. | 13:48 |
| X-Fade | tigert: So now you have a to guess where to click if you want to type in your username. | 13:48 |
| X-Fade | tigert: They could at least have a different background color. So the element stands out from the rest window background? | 13:49 |
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| keesj | Jaffa: I also want to create a small gui thing. a bit like cosy-bookmarks , but for command line programs | 13:53 |
| keesj | I think I want to make the home applet using lua | 13:54 |
| tigert | X-Fade: that is what I said | 13:58 |
| tigert | X-Fade: the one you cannot type in, has a frame | 13:58 |
| tigert | and the one that you can type in does not | 13:58 |
| tigert | it should just be styled differently | 13:58 |
| tigert | but hey, it's all in the theme | 13:58 |
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| tigert | fix it and let me know how you would solve it? | 13:58 |
| tigert | I would perhaps just style the non-editable select widget with rounder corners or a slight gradient or something, to indicate it cannot be typed in. | 13:59 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Do you have the template for the default theme? Or do we need to run the reassemble util? | 13:59 |
| tigert | while the combo entry would have a slight "sunken in" text-entry look | 13:59 |
| tigert | X-Fade: you have scratchbox? | 13:59 |
| tigert | X-Fade: svn co https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-theme-cacher/ | 14:00 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Not atm, but will setup a VM when I have time ;) | 14:00 |
| tigert | in sbox, fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -tc | 14:00 |
| tigert | and install the hildon-theme-cacher deb; | 14:00 |
| tigert | X-Fade: svn co https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-theme-layout-3/ | 14:00 |
| tigert | in sbox, fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -tc | 14:01 |
| tigert | and install the hildon-theme-layout-3 deb | 14:01 |
| tigert | svn co https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/hildon-theme-plankton/hildon-theme-plankton-3/ (note the BRANCH!, it's not trunk!) | 14:01 |
| tigert | -3 in all those is os2007 | 14:01 |
| tigert | edit the template in hildon-theme-plankton-3/template/template.png, then in sbox: fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -tc | 14:02 |
| X-Fade | tigert: I first want to invest some more time in fixing the new maemo site. As that has some visual bugs too. | 14:02 |
| tigert | and you get the theme deb | 14:02 |
| tigert | that you can install with application isntaller | 14:02 |
| tigert | I think the cacher needs redpill mode for now | 14:02 |
| tigert | X-Fade: yeah | 14:02 |
| tigert | but well, this is how the theme template works | 14:02 |
| tigert | -layout- -package is only needed for building the package deb | 14:02 |
| tigert | cacher is needed in the device | 14:03 |
| tigert | from then on, just sketch stuff on the template, | 14:03 |
| tigert | save over the old template.png | 14:03 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, I have looked into theme editing before. MDK make some nice tools for that. | 14:03 |
| tigert | and re-run dpkg-buildpackage in the theme dir | 14:03 |
| tigert | yes | 14:03 |
| tigert | this whole tool setup is our work, mostly MDK's | 14:04 |
| tigert | there is of course konttori's tool as well | 14:04 |
| tigert | which now should be able to use the same template and layout files | 14:04 |
| X-Fade | btw. Do you know why for IT2007 the topbar was made a few pixels bigger? | 14:05 |
| X-Fade | Seems totally usesless to me. As the icons remainded the same size.. | 14:05 |
| X-Fade | It uses up even more screen estate and that is already expensive. | 14:06 |
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| X-Fade | Another example is the filemanager. The un-usable screen space is not even funny. Check the tree on the left. | 14:07 |
| X-Fade | At least 20% of padding to the left and right of that tree. It doesn't even leave enough space to display "Internal memory". | 14:09 |
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| tigert | well yeah | 14:14 |
| tigert | we are trying to get rid of the silly paddings | 14:14 |
| tigert | but this all can be done now even | 14:14 |
| tigert | HildonWindow AFAIK is styled entirely by the gtkrc | 14:14 |
| tigert | so you should be able to fix these things by hand quite easily | 14:15 |
| tigert | my own interest for example is to try how it would look if the right side border was gone altogether | 14:15 |
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| X-Fade | Yeah, editing the gtkrc has been on my list too. Just need to have 48 hours in a day :) | 14:17 |
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| jpetersen | i try to run mono programs as described in maemo.org/maemowiki/mono in the scratchbox (x86 target) | 14:28 |
| jpetersen | it fails with a System.DllNotFoundException: gtksharpglue-2 | 14:29 |
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| Jaffa | Veggen: Aha, ferenc's said there was a problem with the packages - has let me know so I'll look again shortly. | 14:36 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 14:45 |
| * hanno waves back. | 14:46 | |
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| keesj | Jaffa: you must ge gaining respect for people who managed to get debs in the repo every day. | 14:51 |
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| tigert | jpetersen: do you have gtk-sharp? | 14:59 |
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| jpetersen | tigert: yes | 14:59 |
| zuh | tigert: The UI can be customized pretty far with the themes, yes. I hacked a version of (a previous version of) plankton to have 80px wide buttons for the windows (I like to use the UI with fingers ;). This of course meant that the title label got pretty narrow, but I don't really mind that. | 15:02 |
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| tigert | zuh: ideally all apps just remember their state, and there is no need to "minimize" | 15:08 |
| tigert | you just "hide" windows | 15:08 |
| tigert | and the desktop handles killing unnecessary processes and brings them back up when requested | 15:08 |
| tigert | for you they are just "not visible" | 15:08 |
| Guardian | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/gregale/armel-minimal/ is it a naming error or the armel-minimal tgz file is missing ? | 15:09 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: certainly adds weight to the mud project's raison d'etre. | 15:17 |
| Guardian | oh some french in this technical world | 15:18 |
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| melmoth | La vie est pleine de surprises... | 15:18 |
| Guardian | which does not answer my question about a Maemo_Dev_Platform_v2.2_i386-minimal-rootstrap.tgz file present in the armel-minimal directory | 15:19 |
| Jaffa | Bien sur, mais ma francais est trop mal pour les conversations interesment | 15:19 |
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| Guardian | yeah as surprising as this file :) | 15:19 |
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| koen | papa fume une pipe | 15:20 |
| Jaffa | koen: il ne fume pas dans une cafe, maintainent. | 15:20 |
| Guardian | :) | 15:21 |
| koen | right | 15:21 |
| Jaffa | (oooh, topical French :-)) | 15:21 |
| Guardian | sensible subject for smokers here | 15:21 |
| Jaffa | I use the word "French" somewhat loosely. | 15:21 |
| sxpert-work | smoking is now banned in public places such as this channel :D | 15:21 |
| Guardian | at work smokers always go outside, i would be curious about people's stress when they used to smoke at their desk all the day long | 15:23 |
| sp3000 | Guardian: file sez the i386 has arms | 15:27 |
| Veggen | Guardian: To me, smoking laws is a "thank god the world is finally becoming sensible"-thing. | 15:29 |
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| Veggen | Guardian: as to most people. Because, most people do not smoke, I think, in any country? (or is there places where more than 50% smoke?) | 15:31 |
| koen | Veggen: visit the middle east | 15:31 |
| Guardian | i would say that if it's not 50% then it's rather close to it | 15:32 |
| Veggen | koen: ok. In this case, I guess only the traditional western world (Europe, North America), that is actually enacting smoking laws, that counts... | 15:33 |
| koen | smoking laws rub me the wrong way | 15:33 |
| koen | and I'm a non-smoker | 15:33 |
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| koen | or rather, the anti-smoking laws | 15:34 |
| MoRpHeUz | which file formats are supported by n800's media player ? | 15:34 |
| Veggen | koen: I've nothing against people smoking. I just would prefer they didn't around where I am :) | 15:34 |
| koen | Veggen: it depends on where I am, and what their are smoking (cigarettes vs sigars) | 15:35 |
| sxpert-work | Veggen: yeah, also that they don't do it with that contempt look towards non-smokers | 15:35 |
| koen | the company car smells like an ashtray because the former owner smoked in there | 15:36 |
| koen | that annoys me | 15:36 |
| koen | me smelling like an ashtray after going to the pub annoys me a lot less | 15:36 |
| koen | (non)smoking should have guidelines instead of laws | 15:37 |
| koen | if you can't work it out something like that between people people it usually doesn't help to involve the police and judical system | 15:37 |
| glassss | guidelines don't work for bars.. they almost-always end up filled with smoke and you'll have hard time to find a non-smoking bar | 15:37 |
| koen | true | 15:38 |
| Veggen | koen: But seriously - every place they have enacted smoking laws, bars and restaurants have whined a lot beforehand. Then, smoking laws is enacted, and half a year later, the complaining stops short, because there's actually more people going out - and generally drinking/eating more instead of only smoking. | 15:39 |
| koen | I was thankfull for the smoking ban the last weeks, the regional manager would only shut up to go outside to have a smoke | 15:40 |
| glassss | veggen: yeah it doesn't matter in the long term that much.. | 15:40 |
| glassss | smokers are good at adapting | 15:40 |
| glassss | when forced | 15:40 |
| Veggen | glass: Mm, but you have to force them. I have stopped believing in the ability of smokers to act sensible. It's not that most smokers aren't sensible, but it's enough that a very few aren't, and the rest will gladly light up their smoke because everyone else are. | 15:42 |
| pyhimys | I started smoking because of the anti-smoking propaganda. | 15:42 |
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| Veggen | Believe me, I'd like it if we had the kind of society where it'd be natural for a smoker to ask "excuse me, is it ok if I light my cigarette". Problem is, smokers have taken that for granted for far too long. | 15:43 |
| jmspeex | Does anyone have any tip on how to order a N800 from Australia (or any country where it isn't directly sold)? | 15:43 |
| jmspeex | with the developer discount I mean... | 15:44 |
| Jaffa | jmspeex: make friends with someone in one of the anointed countries | 15:44 |
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| jmspeex | Jaffa: I was more hoping for a link to someone that could ship it... | 15:45 |
| jmspeex | Is the discount only valid for the Nokia shop? | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | jmspeex: Yes, it is only valid for the Nokia shop.. | 15:48 |
| Jaffa | jmspeex: | 15:49 |
| Jaffa | Ignore that. | 15:49 |
| jmspeex | hmm... | 15:49 |
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| * hanno has some questions regarding the N800 hardware and how to get started developing... | 15:54 | |
| hanno | I'm wondering if the N800 is actually capable of playing 800x480 video @ 25 fps. | 15:57 |
| hanno | (I know the software is not - yet). | 15:58 |
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| imawinar | hi hanno, unlikely | 16:06 |
| imawinar | rough guess on my part, based on the players i know | 16:07 |
| hanno__ | thanks, imawinar. where is the N800's bottleneck? | 16:07 |
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| skler | I have successful installed non HID kb on N800 with kbdd | 16:07 |
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| imawinar | i don't think the cpu could handle it | 16:08 |
| imawinar | how big of a sd card can the 800 take? | 16:09 |
| skler | 4gb | 16:09 |
| mgedmin | officially 2 gb | 16:09 |
| mgedmin | some 4 gb cards work | 16:10 |
| mgedmin | there's an updated kernel that supports sdhc cards | 16:10 |
| hanno__ | imawinar: So far, up to 2 GB. SDHC is reported to be working with an unofficial patch, which would enable 16 GB and more. | 16:10 |
| hanno__ | imawinar: I guess that the CPU is quite fast enough for certain codecs, e.g. it should be able to decode DVD MPEG 2 video. No? | 16:11 |
| jmspeex | hanno__: actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the DSP part of the OMAP was able to decode 800x480 in real time (with a very optimised decoder). | 16:11 |
| hanno__ | jmspeex: I wouldn't be surprised, either, but does anybody know before I start learning DSP development? ;-) | 16:12 |
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| hanno__ | Would be pretty stupid to try and then finding out that it's utterly useless to learn that. | 16:13 |
| imawinar | going to the screen that's 22 MB per second at 30 fps | 16:13 |
| hanno__ | imawinar: yes, that's why i am asking if the hardware is able to handle that kind of data transfer, at all. | 16:14 |
| imawinar | if you can code at that level, then write something to test the raw throughput | 16:16 |
| jmspeex | hanno__: consider that the main bottleneck would probably be the memory bandwidth, not the computing power. | 16:17 |
| jmspeex | So if it fits in the memory bandwidth, it can probably run in real time. | 16:18 |
| hanno__ | well, it's easy to dream this up. i'll dig into some developer documents to find out if there's any chance to learn that in reasonable time. | 16:20 |
| bedboi | anyone is aware of wxwidgets packages? | 16:22 |
| |tbb| | heya where can i get the source of the rss-news-feed-reader applet of maemo3? | 16:25 |
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| keesj | bedboi: did you package wxwidgets of do you want somebody to package it? | 16:45 |
| Jaffa | keesj: MUD packages (irssi, links, cal and netcat) going through upload process (again). | 16:46 |
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| tzz | has anyone been able to use evince with .cbz packages on the N800? I have unzip installed, but .cbz files are not shown in the file selector. | 17:05 |
| tzz | (cbz == comic booc zipped archives, basically a zip of images) | 17:06 |
| tzz | in case anyone is interested, .CBR archives work fine, and are rendered very well | 17:07 |
| tzz | I'll submit a bug, just curious if I was the only one :) | 17:08 |
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| Tak | does it actually use the zip command, or does it use libz or something? | 17:09 |
| tzz | tak: don't know, but sinze etrunko provided the unzip command as part of his evince N800 package, I would assume it uses unzip | 17:10 |
| Tak | ah | 17:10 |
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| tzz | I'll just e-mail him, no big deal. | 17:11 |
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| * mgedmin emits some hate packets towards people responsible for nokia webshops-that-refuse-to-sell-stuff | 17:24 | |
| Tak | they probably have router-level blocking for IHP packets | 17:25 |
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| hanno__ | Jaffa, are you there? Or am I using the private message command wrong in this IRC client? | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | hanno__: freenode does not allow you to send private messages until you register and identify with nickserv | 17:27 |
| hanno__ | doh. | 17:27 |
| * hanno__ discovers the message saying so in the hidden window... | 17:28 | |
| keesj | Jaffa: I added a few cool packages lately | 17:28 |
| keesj | x11vnc so that you can export / record the display, and and a wiiremote client | 17:28 |
| keesj | I played My first wii remote enabled xmoto game yesterday | 17:29 |
| Tak | keesj: ooo! how was it? | 17:31 |
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| everaldo | Morning | 17:36 |
| everaldo | MDK, ping | 17:36 |
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| keesj | Tak: alright , not supper becasue it's is not the best game for that , but the package simply implements a uninput device (and can also be used as mouse) | 17:36 |
| * zulla is back, now registered. | 17:36 | |
| * zulla used to be hanno. | 17:36 | |
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| keesj | Now I am spending some time to try to make a nice demo , tigert showed me a game what would be more suitable, but I forgot the name | 17:38 |
| maddler | any clue on getting Evince to work on N800? | 17:39 |
| tzz | maddler: etrunko posted a link to it for the N800, did you see it? | 17:40 |
| tzz | it works for me, I just sent a followup to the maemo-users list with some minor problems | 17:40 |
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| maddler | tzz no... | 17:41 |
| maddler | lemme check... | 17:41 |
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| maddler | tzz: any clue on the subject? | 17:44 |
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| * behdad watches the n770 in the wifi ad at Logan airport | 17:47 | |
| garrett | heh | 17:49 |
| garrett | cool | 17:49 |
| garrett | too bad Logan doesn't have free wifi (at least that I'm aware of) | 17:49 |
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| bedboi | lol, amule works on n800 | 17:50 |
| garrett | it's too much money to pay for a day pass when one will be there for 30 minutes | 17:50 |
| tzz | garrett: they do, just one ariline I believe | 17:50 |
| garrett | aha | 17:50 |
| |tbb| | bedboi: true? | 17:50 |
| bedboi | i've ported it right now | 17:50 |
| garrett | I must fly that airline | 17:50 |
| bedboi | |tbb|: yep | 17:50 |
| garrett | (; | 17:50 |
| tzz | garrett: they had a big fight with the Logan administration about it | 17:50 |
| |tbb| | deb | 17:50 |
| bedboi | |tbb|: obviously with webserver | 17:50 |
| bedboi | but that's enough | 17:50 |
| tzz | maddler: did you find the evince N800 package? | 17:50 |
| garrett | http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-5817482.html | 17:51 |
| garrett | aha | 17:51 |
| garrett | continental | 17:51 |
| * mgedmin imagines that nokia webshop job applications have a checkbox "sadistic inclinations", and people who do not check it are not employed | 17:51 | |
| |tbb| | bedboi, where to get the install packages | 17:52 |
| garrett | paying $8 for half an hour to an hour is crazy -- especially when considering that's 1/4 of my monthly payment for 'Net access at home | 17:52 |
| bedboi | ehehe, there are no packages for now | 17:52 |
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| |tbb| | so how do u get it to run then | 17:54 |
| shana | hi everyone | 17:54 |
| Jaffa | keesj: I saw - very cool :) | 17:55 |
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| keesj | Jaffa: perhaps that every time we have 10 extra packages we can send a mail to the mud user list with a list of new stuff | 17:56 |
| shana | are apps ported for OS2006 able to run in OS2007? | 17:56 |
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| shana | and can someone point me to where I can find information about flashing the n800 in case of...errmm... I blow it up with some bad install? :) | 17:57 |
| keesj | saerdnaer: most of them are | 17:57 |
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| keesj | afk | 17:57 |
| kkito | shana, http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowTo :) | 18:00 |
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| shana | ta, kkito :) | 18:01 |
| soleblaze | You flash the maemo by running by it naked..it's rather easy. | 18:01 |
| soleblaze | shana: do you use windows or linux/os x? | 18:01 |
| Tak | soleblaze: that just causes mine to burst into flame | 18:02 |
| shana | soleblaze: but then it'd go into shock and start rebooting endlessly... wouldn't help none :p | 18:02 |
| shana | soleblaze: first 2 | 18:02 |
| soleblaze | shana: mine's only done that three times. | 18:02 |
| kkito | Tak, I ported a cps2 emu to the n800 ;) | 18:02 |
| maddler | tzz: yup... found... | 18:02 |
| soleblaze | shana: ok. Sometimes it skrews up to the point where you have to use an rd flag (and you can't do that in windows) | 18:02 |
| Tak | kkito: cool - what's cps2? :-P | 18:02 |
| soleblaze | cps2 is an arcade chipset | 18:02 |
| shana | soleblaze: mine has been heroically widthstading my persistent prodding | 18:02 |
| soleblaze | capcom something something | 18:02 |
| Tak | I see | 18:03 |
| shana | soleblaze: ah, rd flag, must remember that | 18:03 |
| kkito | Tak, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPS-2 | 18:03 |
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| shana | thx soleblaze | 18:03 |
| Tak | are you going to port every component of xmame separately? ;-) | 18:03 |
| soleblaze | there's a few emulators that just do cps | 18:03 |
| Tak | yeah, it looks like the "compact" version of xmame doesn't do cps2 | 18:04 |
| kkito | Tak, xmame is all plain c, and it is slow :( | 18:05 |
| soleblaze | ugh I can't remember the flag..it tells it to turn the boot protection off | 18:06 |
| kkito | gngeo and my cps2 emu port are programmed using arm asm, and are really fast :) | 18:06 |
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| soleblaze | I remember having problems running cps2 games on an 800mhz c3 | 18:06 |
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| Tak | nice | 18:06 |
| soleblaze | ah | 18:07 |
| kkito | soleblaze, cps2 emu is running at 30-40 fps on my n800, with sound enabled :D | 18:07 |
| soleblaze | ./flasher --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset | 18:07 |
| soleblaze | kkito: nice | 18:07 |
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| soleblaze | you need to do that if you flash it and it's still going into a rbeoot loop | 18:08 |
| shana | soleblaze: cool, thx | 18:08 |
| shana | I predict a future where that might be necessary :p | 18:08 |
| soleblaze | then after it boots up you need to use the flasher ./flasher --clear-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset --disable-rd-mode | 18:08 |
| soleblaze | an older version of maemo mapper caused me to have to do that | 18:08 |
| |tbb| | soleblaze what cps2 is good for | 18:09 |
| ||cw | c3 is the via chip? | 18:09 |
| soleblaze | ||cw: yeah | 18:09 |
| soleblaze | |tbb|: it has the d&d games, a buncha fighters, giga wing | 18:09 |
| ||cw | I recall the 600 c3 being compaired as equal to a celeron 300 | 18:10 |
| kkito | super puzzle fighter :) | 18:10 |
| soleblaze | yeah I think they said the 800 was about 500mhz | 18:10 |
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| soleblaze | kkito: haha I forgot about that game | 18:10 |
| glassss | cps2 .. very nice! | 18:11 |
| soleblaze | c7 is a much nicer chip..heh..my c3 is now my firewall | 18:11 |
| kkito | soleblaze, if you want i can send to you my cps2emu binary | 18:11 |
| glassss | lots of nice games on cps2 | 18:11 |
| soleblaze | I don't think my dcc is working correctly | 18:11 |
| soleblaze | though i guess it's small enough to email eh? soulblaze@gmail.com | 18:12 |
| kkito | offcourse | 18:12 |
| |tbb| | where to find that emulator and roms | 18:12 |
| soleblaze | roms? torrents for mame roms..emulator..i guess from kkito lol | 18:12 |
| soleblaze | kkito: thanks | 18:12 |
| soleblaze | I gotta get to work..I'm already half an hour late lol | 18:13 |
| soleblaze | luckily no one cares..or is that unluckily | 18:13 |
| Tak | kkito: is it open-source? | 18:13 |
| kkito | Tak, yes | 18:14 |
| Tak | would you email me your modified source? | 18:15 |
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| kkito | Tak, the hack is very primitive and i dont want to make it public for now, but i will do it | 18:20 |
| Tak | are you going to make a more polished version? | 18:20 |
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| bedboi | is load-apple-run supposed to work with 3.0 ? | 18:24 |
| keesj | 30-40 fps ! | 18:26 |
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| kkito | can you access to http://83.54.93.1:8002 ? | 18:32 |
| Tak | no | 18:33 |
| kkito | Tak, and now? | 18:33 |
| bedboi | kkito: it's ok here | 18:34 |
| Tak | yes | 18:34 |
| kkito | well here you have the cps2emu binary, the tool to do the cache files and some instructions to run the emu | 18:35 |
| Tak | eek - how large is the binary unpacked? | 18:35 |
| kkito | soleblaze, i cannot send to you the email, if you want you can grab the emu from there http://83.54.93.1:8002 | 18:35 |
| kkito | 556,7 KB | 18:36 |
| kkito | but it is for the n800 not 770 | 18:36 |
| * Tak nods | 18:36 | |
| Tak | what's in the zip then? 29M of source? | 18:37 |
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| kkito | ohh sorry there some .chache fies... | 18:38 |
| kkito | i am goint do do another zip file | 18:39 |
| kkito | download cps2emumaemo2.zip | 18:40 |
| kkito | not the cps2emumaemo.zip | 18:40 |
| bedboi | how to get screenshots on bora? | 18:42 |
| kkito | and if you want the roms ... http://www.gp2xtorrents.com/torrents-details.php?id=354 | 18:42 |
| kkito | but i dont know if it is legal | 18:43 |
| tzz | has anyone compiled libpcre3-dev yet? I want zsh and libpcre3-dev is a prerequisute, but I don't want to waste my time if it's already been compiled. It doesn't work straight from source. | 18:44 |
| keesj | kkito: are you doing some gp2x dev? | 18:47 |
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| inz | tzz, I have, nginx required it | 18:47 |
| Tak | kkito: got it btw, thanks | 18:47 |
| kkito | keesj, no, :P | 18:48 |
| inz | tzz, in maemo-hackers.org repository | 18:48 |
| keesj | inz I miss the open url in my default desktop xterm :p (I think there are working alternatives) | 18:49 |
| inz | keesj, I use gnome-terminal, from which the url regexes are shamelessly copied from ;) | 18:50 |
| keesj | inz for me gnome is like windows , I try in once a year because I forgot how happy I was with my current desktop | 18:52 |
| inz | keesj, at work I use gnome with fvwm, which is quite nice | 18:52 |
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| Pio | inz, i used to do that.. does fvwm integrate pretty well with gnome's desktop management now? i stopped using it because a few bad bugs at the time | 18:54 |
| Pio | the workspace switcher and window list were unusable | 18:55 |
| inz | Pio, i don't use gnome desktop, nor panels | 18:55 |
| Pio | yeah, thats the answer i usually get when i ask that :) | 18:55 |
| tzz | inz: thanks, I'll add it to my scratchbox | 18:55 |
| everaldo | shana, ping | 18:55 |
| Pio | thats all i really use gnome for.. heh | 18:55 |
| * mgedmin loves gnome | 18:55 | |
| Pio | i like fvwm just for the strict control you have.. metacity has gotten a little better by adding some gconf keys that let you make it less atrocious but it still has some evil things | 18:56 |
| tzz | inz: do you want to build zsh yourself or should I do it? It should compile straight out of the source, at least it did for me. | 18:56 |
| inz | tzz, I can do it too... | 18:56 |
| tzz | inz: that would be great, I look forward to it. zsh is very good for N800/770 because it's very economical for find-type operations. | 18:57 |
| tzz | e.g. ls **/*.rar instead of find . -name "*.rar" | 18:57 |
| tzz | and zmv is just wonderful | 18:58 |
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| mukund | http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/07/02/05/139207.shtml | 19:01 |
| keesj | inz: the real problem is that I am seriouly getting adicted to wmii as window manager | 19:01 |
| bedboi | so nobody here can take screenshots with n800? | 19:01 |
| keesj | bedboi: sorry only movies :p | 19:02 |
| Tak | no osso-screenshot-tool on n800? | 19:02 |
| real-dev | bedboi: found out this afternoon http://gnuite.com:8080/nokia770/load-applet-run/load-applet-run_0.4.3-2_armel.deb | 19:02 |
| real-dev | works on my n800 | 19:02 |
| bedboi | thanks | 19:02 |
| zulla | bedboi: I am using osso-screenshot-tool on my N800. | 19:03 |
| zulla | Works. | 19:03 |
| bedboi | zulla: where did you get it? | 19:05 |
| zulla | bedboi: "apt-get install" and I was ready to go. | 19:05 |
| kulve | http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2007/01/17/maemo-screen-grabber/ | 19:06 |
| kulve | that uses osso-screenshot-tool too | 19:06 |
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| zulla | bedboi: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/bora/free/binary/osso-screenshot-tool_1.20-1_armel.deb | 19:08 |
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| bedboi | http://linuxtogo.org/~ldecicco/amule_on_n800.png | 19:17 |
| bedboi | funny | 19:17 |
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| __smoke | heyhey, anyone ever tried to run "free pascal crosscompiled executables" in maemo, i got the xcompile working (win32->arm/elf binary) but i get "-sh: ./test: Permission denied" trying to run a simple "hello world" | 19:19 |
| Tak | chmod 755 ./test ? | 19:20 |
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| keesj | chmod +x ./test | 19:21 |
| __smoke | still same...the test binary has -rwxr-xr-x flags, i'm a bit linux nub so i dont know what those meant | 19:21 |
| __smoke | i'll try the +x | 19:21 |
| keesj | is the same.. | 19:21 |
| keesj | did you put in on the mmc? | 19:22 |
| __smoke | yeh | 19:22 |
| jcml_ | mmc is mounted noexec | 19:22 |
| __smoke | ow | 19:22 |
| __smoke | that explains alot :p | 19:22 |
| jcml_ | ISTC | 19:22 |
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| __smoke | omg, it works ! | 19:23 |
| kkito | Tak, i put another cps2emu.maemo binary please download the last, the version that you downloaded before have a bug. | 19:23 |
| __smoke | so cool | 19:23 |
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| __smoke | so, just a notice, freepascal compiler can produce runnable elf/arm binaries xcomiling them on win32 platform :) | 19:24 |
| __smoke | xcompiling* | 19:24 |
| __smoke | *plugplug* | 19:24 |
| __smoke | <3 pascal | 19:24 |
| mgedmin | wow | 19:25 |
| Tak | kkito: grabbing | 19:25 |
| kkito | Tak :) | 19:25 |
| ||cw | this looks a lot like maemo http://www.pocketables.net/2007/02/new_h9_umpc_run.html | 19:25 |
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| __smoke | yeh, except i havent found any nice themes that exploit alpha on widgets :p | 19:26 |
| Tak | indeed | 19:27 |
| Tak | even the double-arrow at the bottom of the app bar | 19:27 |
| __smoke | really hate it that my ip widget obscures the background, it took me goddam 2 hours to find the background image ! | 19:27 |
| __smoke | n800 looks better than that, all plasticy that device | 19:29 |
| ||cw | http://www.pocketables.net/2007/02/h9_linux_umpc_p.html it's $490 in lots of 500 as well... | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | looks very maemo-ish | 19:31 |
| jcml_ | It /is/ maemo, n'est pas? | 19:31 |
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| Tak | jcml_: I agree | 19:31 |
| __smoke | they have some icons at the bottom of the screen, havent seen those in maemo | 19:32 |
| ||cw | that wouldn't be that hard to amke with a desktop widjet though | 19:32 |
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| ||cw | gprs as well | 19:33 |
| mgedmin | 7" screen, so not pocket-sized | 19:34 |
| __smoke | 7" screen, that's a bit larger than nokias, sounds inconviniently large | 19:34 |
| __smoke | allright | 19:35 |
| ||cw | no, but 770/n800 sized | 19:35 |
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| ||cw | i thought the 770 was 7"? | 19:35 |
| keesj | they have the buttons on the "right" side | 19:35 |
| Tak | keesj: I know! totally unsuited for gaming! :-P | 19:35 |
| __smoke | think 770 is about 5" diagonally ? | 19:35 |
| ||cw | i forget | 19:36 |
| __smoke | the whole device | 19:36 |
| ||cw | yeah, dunno why i thought it was 7 | 19:37 |
| Tak | 6.41" diagonal | 19:37 |
| ||cw | screen or whole thing? | 19:37 |
| Tak | whole thing | 19:37 |
| __smoke | so, once they invent 7" fitting rear pockets on jeans, i'll go with nokia | 19:37 |
| ||cw | so like 5-5.5" screen | 19:37 |
| Tak | probably | 19:37 |
| ||cw | heh | 19:37 |
| shana | if only it didn't look so much like a transistor radio... | 19:38 |
| ||cw | my 770 fits in my back pocket just fine | 19:38 |
| Tak | too bad they didn't bump up the resolution for the larger screen | 19:38 |
| ||cw | yeah | 19:38 |
| __smoke | made in taiwan, they still have the 80s transistor radio plastic molding lines running, no need to replace, just costs money :p | 19:38 |
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| mgedmin | isn't the n770 screen 4.1" or something? | 19:39 |
| __smoke | need i get a measuring tape...where'd i put that thing :/ | 19:40 |
| garrett | __smoke: the device is just about the size of a DS Lite, but a ltitle thinner | 19:41 |
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| garrett | and both are very pock-fitting for me, at least in my pockets | 19:41 |
| __smoke | n800 has a 10.7cm screen, diagonally, think the 770 is same | 19:41 |
| __smoke | so you go imperial on 10.7cm | 19:41 |
| __smoke | dont have a converter in my n800, cant calculate, eek, error error | 19:42 |
| __smoke | so, 4.2" vs 7"...that's quite a bit larger | 19:43 |
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| shana | ok, now this is weird... http://www.transistor.org/collection/northamerican/noram3.html and http://www.carrypad.com/gallery/d/2645-2/IMG_0156.JPG | 19:44 |
| timely | so, anyone here familiar w/ apt-get? | 19:44 |
| timely | :) | 19:44 |
| |tbb| | tak have u got cps2emu.maemo running? | 19:44 |
| Tak | no | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | timely: what's your question? | 19:45 |
| timely | i'm trying to use apt-get --download-only to grab some big meta package | 19:45 |
| |tbb| | ive tried it but i dont get it to run | 19:45 |
| timely | i've added things like --allow-unauthenticated and --fix-missing | 19:45 |
| timely | and a bunch of others | 19:45 |
| Tak | I don't have an n800 yet ;-) | 19:45 |
| timely | but i keep getting "The following packages have unmet dependencies" | 19:45 |
| timely | E: Broken packages | 19:46 |
| |tbb| | ah k | 19:46 |
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| timely | all i want is for apt-get to download the package(s) i specify and all dependent packages | 19:46 |
| __smoke | well, godda go, byebye | 19:46 |
| timely | and this is for an automated process, and i don't really want to hack around it, i'm fully capable of doing that, but that isn't the point :) | 19:46 |
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| mgedmin | well, it looks like apt-get is unable to find all the dependent packages | 19:47 |
| mgedmin | maybe your sources.list is incomplete | 19:47 |
| timely | $ apt-get --download-only gtk2-engines-sapwood | 19:48 |
| timely | gtk2-engines-sapwood: Depends: libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2:2.6.10-1.osso8) but it is not going to be installed | 19:48 |
| timely | Depends: libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.8.1) but it is not going to be installed | 19:48 |
| s-ndh-c | wow now mono works in scratchbox | 19:48 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 19:48 |
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| timely | $ apt-get --download-only libgtk2.0-0 | 19:48 |
| timely | Download complete and in download only mode | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | timely, is that in scratchbox or in the device? | 19:48 |
| timely | $ apt-get --download-only libpango1.0-0 | 19:49 |
| timely | Download complete and in download only mode | 19:49 |
| timely | "no" | 19:49 |
| mgedmin | when it downloads libgtk2.0-0, what version does it download? | 19:49 |
| timely | :( i'm missing my gpg file | 19:51 |
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| timely | well at least that explains why i have the unauthenticated thing | 19:51 |
| timely | 2:2.6-10.2-osso30 | 19:53 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: do you have a maemo 2.X compatible hildon binding ready? | 19:53 |
| s-ndh-c | just managed to get mono working in scratchbox | 19:53 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 19:53 |
| timely | which i think is newer than 2:2.6.10-1.osso8 | 19:53 |
| timely | brb | 19:53 |
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| * Tak tries to picture scsharp on an n800 | 19:54 | |
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| s-ndh-c | guess i will just checkout the svn code and see if it works | 19:54 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 19:54 |
| |tbb| | is ruby available at n800 | 19:55 |
| * mgedmin scratches head | 19:56 | |
| mgedmin | apparently I do not understand apt-get | 19:56 |
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| xan | MDK, ping | 20:03 |
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| Veggen | mgedmin: problems? | 20:04 |
| mgedmin | as a matter of fact, yes | 20:05 |
| mgedmin | nokia won't sell me my n800 | 20:05 |
| mgedmin | but if you were asking about apt-get, then the problem is timely's, not mine | 20:05 |
| Veggen | ah. | 20:05 |
| Veggen | hmmf. I should get a better way of sorting old mail. | 20:06 |
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| Veggen | Once again, I have to open the big (probably 200.000 messsages now) pile of unsorted inbox-mail. | 20:07 |
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| Veggen | is there any good command-line tools..like, maildirgrep? I'd like that. | 20:09 |
| mukund | just use grep | 20:10 |
| Veggen | yah. | 20:11 |
| Veggen | but I'll need to do it together with find. grep/the shell isn't that happy with several 100k files :) | 20:11 |
| ||cw | even grep -r? | 20:12 |
| mgedmin | there's grepmail | 20:13 |
| ||cw | pretty sure I've grep'd my whole desktop before | 20:13 |
| mgedmin | I don't remember if it handles maildirs | 20:13 |
| mgedmin | it does handle mailboxes | 20:13 |
| Veggen | mgedmin: only mailboxes, it seems. | 20:13 |
| mgedmin | grep -r foo /path/to/maildir then | 20:14 |
| Veggen | yah, but some nice packaging would be nice. I actually liked mh-tools, that way. | 20:15 |
| alp | s-ndh-c: i've been checking my work into nbind (http://www.ndesk.org/nbind/) -- it builds, but i need to make a tweak before it will work | 20:16 |
| alp | you can try building it and start to review the api if you want | 20:16 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: so i run autogen in nbind dir? | 20:16 |
| alp | it has a custom build system. just 'make' in nbind/hildon should do | 20:17 |
| s-ndh-c | ok will try that | 20:17 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: i just build that on my host or inside scratchbox? | 20:18 |
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| alp | host will do for now, there's no unmanaged glue (yet, and hopefully never) | 20:18 |
| s-ndh-c | hehe | 20:18 |
| timely | mgedmin: pong? | 20:19 |
| s-ndh-c | thx will try and see if it works for me | 20:20 |
| alp | it only covers the hildon-1 MDK linked to in his blog right now. i need to find out what api should be covered (things have changed since 2005) | 20:20 |
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| timely | veggen: what are you trying to do? | 20:20 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: i see | 20:20 |
| * timely uses glimpse for some things and there's an imap daemon w/ very good searching available | 20:21 | |
| * timely thinks it's cmu's | 20:21 | |
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| kender | hello | 20:22 |
| Tak | afternoon kender | 20:23 |
| kender | hey Tak ;-) | 20:23 |
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| Veggen | timely: oh, just trying to find a handful of specific mails from a very large mailbox ;) | 20:25 |
| Veggen | (will need to search, though) | 20:25 |
| Tak | anybody on mistral want to try the efp package from garage extras? (requires fceu) | 20:25 |
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| Veggen | hmm, just 113k mail. not as bad as I though. | 20:25 |
| Veggen | thought. | 20:25 |
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| Veggen | Once mutt has opened it, it's not bad at all to use mutt for it. | 20:26 |
| timely | veggen: your large inbox can't match mine :) | 20:26 |
| kender | tigert, efp? | 20:26 |
| timely | veggen: but seriously, glimpse or the cmu imap server would work for you | 20:26 |
| tigert | efp? | 20:26 |
| * timely wouldn't really recommend glimpse | 20:27 | |
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| mgedmin | offlineimap + moving 80 megs from one maildir to another (16k messages) == a week | 20:27 |
| timely | speaking of which | 20:27 |
| timely | anyone wanna place odds on pine or mutt keeling over dead if i ask them top open my inbox? :) | 20:28 |
| Tak | efp is a dfsg-free nes game | 20:29 |
| mgedmin | I'm sure mutt will happily chug along and open it... in about half an hour | 20:29 |
| inz | tzz, I've packaged the zsh, but it seems to not work too well... | 20:29 |
| Tak | "Escape From Pong" | 20:29 |
| mgedmin | now, if your tried to open it with the 770's built-in mail client... | 20:29 |
| mgedmin | ouch | 20:29 |
| timely | inz: aww | 20:29 |
| * timely loves zsh | 20:29 | |
| tigert | mgedmin: friends don't let friends.. | 20:30 |
| inz | tigert, mutt?-) | 20:30 |
| tigert | mutt is fine | 20:30 |
| inz | +use | 20:30 |
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| s-ndh-c | alp: it doesnt build, maybe because my hosts gtk-sharp install is 2.10? | 20:31 |
| timely | veggen: if you're going to have an inbox like that, i'd suggest using screen | 20:31 |
| timely | leave your mail client always open | 20:31 |
| timely | it'll save you the pain of opening it later :) | 20:31 |
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| alp | s-ndh-c: any errors to pastebin? | 20:33 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: http://pastebin.ca/341526 | 20:34 |
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| |tbb| | screen available for n800 | 20:35 |
| alp | s-ndh-c: interesting. i've only tried with mono/gtk# svn | 20:36 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: its ubuntu edgys packages | 20:36 |
| timely | tbb: well | 20:37 |
| timely | ssh'ing to a screen server makes more sense | 20:37 |
| noir | hi | 20:37 |
| timely | what's the point of running screen locally? | 20:37 |
| s-ndh-c | but i can test against svn to see if its that | 20:37 |
| |tbb| | thats true | 20:37 |
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| s-ndh-c | yeah thats how i run my irssi | 20:40 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 20:40 |
| |tbb| | me2 | 20:41 |
| alp | s-ndh-c: Gtk.Widget has a method Activate() but Hildon.Caption has an event called Activate it seems, and for some reason your compiler doesn't like it and mine deals with it | 20:41 |
| alp | (and Hildon.Caption is a subclass of Gtk.Widget) | 20:41 |
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| alp | so in this situation, it's best to remap the event name to something like "Activated", but we should also find out which of our compilers is broken | 20:43 |
| alp | s-ndh-c: we should make sure our generated sources are the same too of course | 20:44 |
| alp | so pass me your Caption.cs | 20:44 |
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| s-ndh-c | alp: here is my Caption.cs http://pastebin.ca/341545 | 20:47 |
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| tko | http://quotes.burntelectrons.org/1898 | 20:54 |
| alp | s-ndh-c: just wrote a test case, http://pastebin.ca/341557 | 20:54 |
| maddler | re | 20:54 |
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| kender | hey maddler | 20:55 |
| maddler | heya kender... | 20:55 |
| maddler | :) | 20:55 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: yeah my mcs doesnt like that | 20:56 |
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| kender | If I make a program that plays audio files using Gstreamer, the program is going to be using the DSP while playing the file? | 20:59 |
| koen | depends on your pipeline | 21:01 |
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| kender | koen, explain me that please | 21:01 |
| kender | the file is a mp3 | 21:01 |
| koen | if you tell gstreamer to use the mpg123 plugin it would use the dsp | 21:01 |
| kender | I see | 21:02 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: will try with svn head | 21:02 |
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| kender | so, the best way of going it, is using gstreamer and the mpg123 plugin? | 21:02 |
| koen | no | 21:03 |
| inz | if you tell gstreamer to use the mp3sink, then it would use the dsp | 21:04 |
| alp | s-ndh-c: fix is in svn | 21:04 |
| kender | so, which is the best way? | 21:04 |
| alp | s-ndh-c: i just added an api mapping to nhildon, no need to upgrade. i'll find out more about the change in mcs | 21:05 |
| kender | if I want to do a mp3 player for maemo, what will be the best option? | 21:05 |
| hub | kender: use gstreamer | 21:06 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: ok will try again | 21:06 |
| kender | yes, hub , which with plugin? | 21:07 |
| kender | *with which | 21:07 |
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| kender | I mean, for using the hardware at top level... | 21:08 |
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| s-ndh-c | -rwxr-xr-x 1 michi michi 65K 2007-02-05 20:08 nhildon.dll .. it worked | 21:09 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 21:09 |
| Tak | dspmp3sink? | 21:10 |
| koen | playbin? | 21:10 |
| s-ndh-c | alp:i just put the hildon.dll in the same dir as the app right? | 21:10 |
| kender | two of them are inside the original firmware image? | 21:11 |
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| |tbb| | for what is that nhildon.dll good for? | 21:12 |
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| s-ndh-c | alp: thx will try if i can get your sample app working, would be realy great if we could code hildonized apps in c# :) | 21:14 |
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| alp | s-ndh-c: you will need to add a dllmap to the config file from "hildon-1" to the right name, which i don't know ye | 21:16 |
| alp | yet | 21:16 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: ok will see if i can figure that out | 21:17 |
| s-ndh-c | but first iam going to get me something to eat | 21:17 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 21:17 |
| alp | right. screenshot if you get anything working. i notice Hildon.App(lication?) etc. are not around any more | 21:18 |
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| fish | re | 21:25 |
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| shana8 | hi | 21:38 |
| timely | hey | 21:38 |
| timely | anyone here familiar w/ maemo mapper? | 21:38 |
| nelson | timely: somewhat. What's your question. | 21:39 |
| shana8 | testing out the xchat app on n800 | 21:39 |
| timely | google maps has a saved locations feature | 21:39 |
| timely | can maemo mapper download those locations? :) | 21:39 |
| shana8 | this work pretty well | 21:39 |
| ||cw | shana8: of course it does, it's xchat | 21:40 |
| shana8 | no zoom though | 21:40 |
| shana8 | and the startup dialogue wont let me write on rhe channel name | 21:41 |
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| shana8 | but pretty god so far | 21:41 |
| shana8 | good | 21:41 |
| shana8 | his the zoom feature exclusive of the n800? | 21:42 |
| shana8 | is | 21:42 |
| tzz | inz: I can test zsh if you want. Did you have to change a lot in the source, or just compile it as expected? | 21:44 |
| tzz | inz: drop me a link or send me the .deb at tzz@lifelogs.com | 21:45 |
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| ||cw | shana8: it's application dependant on how to handle the zoom toggle | 21:47 |
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| nelson | timely: not that I know of. | 21:48 |
| shana8 | oh, ok, so xchat doesn't handle zooming | 21:49 |
| nelson | timely: maemo-mapper has a POI catalog, and I'm sure that you could import the saved locations into maemo-mapper, but the code doesn't exist to do it. | 21:49 |
| timely | nelson: i've already lost one POI catalog | 21:51 |
| timely | because the system backup software didn't "back up my settings" | 21:51 |
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| acidborg | hi | 21:52 |
| * timely returns to looking for someone adventurous enough to claim to understand apt :) | 21:52 | |
| Tak | there's always #debian ;-) | 21:52 |
| timely | i tried | 21:52 |
| Tak | try on oftc? | 21:52 |
| timely | they didn't notice me and i'm not sure i really have the scrollback to filter out the dozens of other questions :( | 21:53 |
| timely | small screen :) | 21:53 |
| nelson | Hrm. Yeah, unfortunately, the "Application Catalog" is a work in progress. | 21:53 |
| nelson | No, wait, I mean, "It still needs work". Having it be a work in progress is a *good* thing. Much better than being broken AND fixed in stone. | 21:53 |
| Tak | imo it's less broken than the previous | 21:54 |
| nelson | indeed, yes. | 21:55 |
| nelson | (but the idea of multiple repos is not good.) | 21:56 |
| acidborg | what programs can other people use to videotalk with my n800? | 21:56 |
| acidborg | I mean, google talk for PC doesn't allow videotalk ... | 21:56 |
| Tak | nelson: you mean mistral/scirocco/gregale/bora ? | 21:57 |
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| Molagi | anyone got mplayer working good on n800 yet? | 21:58 |
| Molagi | freezes all the time on me | 21:58 |
| kender | last version? | 21:59 |
| Molagi | what is the latest | 21:59 |
| nelson | Tak: no, more along the application line. I can understand that Nokia wants a bright line between "Nokia-supported" and "Community-supported" installations. | 22:00 |
| Tak | ah | 22:00 |
| nelson | Tak: but that only gives cause for two repos. | 22:00 |
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| nelson | Tak: I'm opinionated here, but ... I think that to give the best support, you want to minimize the number of interactions with the victim^H^H^H^H^H^Huser. | 22:01 |
| nelson | First question should be ``Click here and tell me if it says "Nokia or Community" ''. | 22:02 |
| Tak | isn't that what garage extras vs tableteer is? | 22:02 |
| nelson | I see no committment (from anybody) to have only two repos. | 22:03 |
| timely | where does the third party nokia software live today? | 22:04 |
| nelson | If the answer is "Nokia", then the community sends them to NOkia. If "Community", then Nokia sends them to us. | 22:04 |
| nelson | timely: if I could wave a magic wand, the answer would be "Go into Application Catalog and add the community repo URL, which is http://XYZ". | 22:05 |
| Tak | there's no reason for that not to be garage extras | 22:06 |
| timely | hrm, the thing i was thinking of lives in catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified | 22:06 |
| timely | nelson: by third party nokia | 22:07 |
| timely | i mean that there's a nokia group that isn't the group that makes the 770 | 22:07 |
| timely | and they wrote software (mediastreamer) for the 770 | 22:07 |
| timely | to me they're a very confusing third party | 22:08 |
| timely | (2nd party is of course you, and calling them 4th party is just wrong) | 22:08 |
| tolgam | have you seen this : http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/05/h9-umpc-runs-linux/ doesn't it reminds you an other UI ? :) | 22:12 |
| mgedmin | nice transparency effects, though | 22:14 |
| tko | err.. not even close. for one the rss applet and arrow keys are on the right hand side | 22:15 |
| tko | :) | 22:15 |
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| kaatis | i mailed them and asked if i could buy a developer device :) | 22:17 |
| tolgam | :) | 22:18 |
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| |tbb|_ | i followed the instructions of maemo.org to install maemo3 on a debian system now i became following error while trying to install the sdk kit | 22:25 |
| |tbb|_ | E: Scratchbox version is too old (scratchbox-core ). | 22:25 |
| |tbb|_ | E: The minimum required scratchbox-core version is 1.0.7. | 22:25 |
| |tbb|_ | apt-get install scratchbox-core tells me i allready got the newest version:/ | 22:26 |
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| sbaturzio | |tbb|: try with the maemo-scratchbox-install_3.0.sh script | 22:27 |
| |tbb|_ | if runned that before | 22:27 |
| sbaturzio | |tbb|: on my Debian/Unstable worked fine | 22:28 |
| tolgam | same for me on an arch | 22:29 |
| mgedmin | sbaturzio: from where did you get scratchbox? (i.e. what's the line in /etc/apt/sources.list)? | 22:29 |
| sbaturzio | mgedmin: the script downloaded and installed it for me | 22:30 |
| sbaturzio | no changes in sources.list | 22:30 |
| mgedmin | oh | 22:30 |
| mgedmin | hm | 22:30 |
| mgedmin | the 3.0 script? | 22:30 |
| mgedmin | or an older script? | 22:30 |
| mgedmin | you can get the latest version of scratchbox from deb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ ./ | 22:31 |
| sbaturzio | the script here: http://repository.maemo.org/stable/bora/ | 22:31 |
| mgedmin | hm | 22:31 |
| sbaturzio | just download the script and execute it | 22:31 |
| mgedmin | I installes scratchbox myself with apt-get before I ran the bora install script | 22:32 |
| mgedmin | it worked for me that way | 22:32 |
| kaatis | |tbb|_, if you installed to path other than /scratchbox and you have old scratchbox in /scratchbox then you need to give new install path with -s argument | 22:32 |
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| |tbb|_ | i have removed it now | 22:32 |
| |tbb|_ | try to download it again | 22:33 |
| |tbb|_ | way to go | 22:33 |
| kaatis | |tbb|_, per default the installer checks the version in /scratchbox | 22:33 |
| MoRpHeUz | n800's Media player supports which formats of videos ? | 22:33 |
| MoRpHeUz | just mp4 ? | 22:34 |
| |tbb|_ | ive runned the installer with -d option | 22:34 |
| mgedmin | I'm sure it supports more | 22:34 |
| mgedmin | and I'm sure it supports not enough | 22:34 |
| mgedmin | :) | 22:34 |
| MDK | re | 22:34 |
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| s-ndh-c | wb MDK | 22:35 |
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| shana | can I mount samba shares in the n800? | 22:37 |
| s-ndh-c | alp: i think the its hildonprogam in 2.x and above | 22:38 |
| tko | MDK, does this remind you of something? :) http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/05/h9-umpc-runs-linux/ | 22:38 |
| jobi | what a brilliant UI! | 22:38 |
| MDK | hmmmm | 22:39 |
| Fatal | china++ | 22:39 |
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| MDK | great desktop metaphor | 22:39 |
| MDK | I wish we could have it | 22:39 |
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| MoRpHeUz | mgedmin: I'm trying to stream a video using vlc to it.. | 22:40 |
| ||cw | shana: if the kernel has smbfs and/or cifs drivers, yes | 22:40 |
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| MoRpHeUz | mgedmin: it keeps buffering (full fills the bar 3 times) and then it stops for no reason (no video or audio is played) | 22:41 |
| shana | so what's the meaning of "Unknown Device" error? | 22:41 |
| shana | because smbclient can connect to the share | 22:41 |
| MDK | I think they just ripped of the hildon ui ideas etc. | 22:41 |
| MDK | somehow I can't believe they run maemo desktop et all | 22:41 |
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| Tak | lot of work for them to recreate that much detail from scratch | 22:43 |
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| tko | well, it's fairly safe to copy nokia brand | 22:45 |
| tko | probably much cheaper than trying to come up with your own rational design | 22:46 |
| MDK | haha | 22:46 |
| keesj | maemo does not look like anything nokia has done in the past right? | 22:46 |
| keesj | but yes , always better to embrace! | 22:47 |
| MDK | hmm, there was this touchscreen phone | 22:47 |
| jobi | they have alpha in the home applets, we don't | 22:47 |
| tko | it actually evolved from a phone | 22:47 |
| keesj | interesting | 22:47 |
| keesj | (the evolution thing) | 22:48 |
| MDK | http://www.dynamoo.com/moobiles/images/nokia/nokia-7710.jpg | 22:48 |
| MDK | noki a7710 | 22:48 |
| jobi | marius had that one for a while | 22:48 |
| keesj | We have such a phone at work | 22:48 |
| jobi | he asked to change because it was really too bad | 22:49 |
| MDK | tigert brought it one day | 22:49 |
| MDK | yeah, it's really bad | 22:49 |
| jobi | you can feel the KS touch in the UI ;) | 22:49 |
| keesj | the problem we had is that non of the existing midlet where ready to run on such a large screen | 22:49 |
| keesj | midlets | 22:50 |
| keesj | I think the h9 is closer to the 770 :p | 22:51 |
| tko | was it the 800x480 screen that made you think so? | 22:51 |
| tko | or the UI? | 22:51 |
| tko | or ... :) | 22:51 |
| roope | :D that's great! | 22:52 |
| roope | It even has the triangles >>. | 22:52 |
| tko | don't remind me | 22:52 |
| roope | Then again, it's totally different. It has four plugins, we have three. Plus it has the time at the end of them. | 22:52 |
| jobi | so it must be a pda | 22:53 |
| tko | and the arrow keys and the rss applet are on the right side, we have them on the left.. clearly a different thing | 22:53 |
| keesj | tko, for me it it the application launcher on the left , that is really something I don't really like on the maemo, and it it there , again | 22:53 |
| tko | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT6YO30GhmQ | 22:54 |
| keesj | I understand that you lose less space if you put it left or right (480x20 < 800 x 20) | 22:54 |
| keesj | tko, I was searching for that exact fim :p | 22:55 |
| tigert | maemo looks a LOT like the 7710 ui | 22:56 |
| tigert | and I have one on my desk at work, charging it | 22:56 |
| tigert | its cute in that way | 22:56 |
| tigert | looks very familiar | 22:56 |
| tigert | but its symbian afaik | 22:56 |
| jobi | yep | 22:57 |
| glassss | 7710 is symbian | 22:57 |
| glassss | "series90" though they buried that name | 22:57 |
| roope | Series 90 symbian. | 22:57 |
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| nelson | I was playing with my N800 at a King's Singers performance yesterday, and the two young women behind me kept making loud remarks about how cool the N800 was and were pointedly wondering what it was. | 22:57 |
| glassss | coded one presentation for it.. | 22:57 |
| nelson | Unfortunately, their ardor cooled once they found out it cost $400. | 22:57 |
| roope | My friends are actually suprised about that price, they expect it to cost even more. | 22:58 |
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| roope | (Not suprised in a way that they would rush out to but it, but still.) | 22:58 |
| roope | buy it. | 22:58 |
| tigert | nelson: better $400 than $1000 for an UMPC | 22:58 |
| garrett | a lot of people were asking me about it over the weekend | 22:58 |
| glassss | it looks more expensive, having a high res screen etc you don't see in cheap devices | 22:59 |
| garrett | they were all interested in it | 22:59 |
| garrett | like some are computer geeks too | 22:59 |
| |tbb|_ | how can i check scratchbox-core version | 22:59 |
| tigert | my N800 rebooted several times today :( | 22:59 |
| tigert | but not in a loop | 22:59 |
| tigert | need to see what happened | 23:00 |
| tigert | it has been pretty stable so far | 23:00 |
| tigert | I installed maemo mapper since | 23:00 |
| garrett | tigert: I've had a reboot loop twice | 23:00 |
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| tigert | garrett: yeah, people are looking at the reboot loops | 23:00 |
| garrett | but thankfully it stopped on the second and third time | 23:00 |
| tigert | trying to find the cause, its being taken fairly seriously | 23:00 |
| garrett | and then some random reboots too | 23:00 |
| garrett | good to know | 23:00 |
| garrett | I have since turned off the rss stuff, and that seems to make things a little more stable | 23:01 |
| garrett | it could be a placebo too | 23:01 |
| garrett | heh | 23:01 |
| keesj | tigert, my problems started after wanting to use maemo mapper , I have put the sd card in the slot , | 23:01 |
| nelson | yeah, but I'm in the USA .... it says "Nokia" so they 1) expect it to be a cellphone, and 2) expect it to cost $50. | 23:01 |
| tigert | nelson: yeah :( | 23:01 |
| garrett | nelson: heh, yeah, that's what everyone asked, "Oh, so it's a Nokia -- so it's a cellphone?" | 23:01 |
| tigert | the darn bundles | 23:01 |
| nelson | I long for the day when bundles die. | 23:01 |
| tigert | "AAAAAaand it's a PHONE TOO!!" | 23:02 |
| tigert | nelson: they just started in Finland even | 23:02 |
| tigert | for 3G phones one can do bundles | 23:02 |
| tigert | it used to be illegal before | 23:02 |
| nelson | NNNNNOOOOOOOOoooooooo!!!!!!! Your poor country. | 23:02 |
| garrett | I said, "No, it's not really a phone, but there is software available that lets you do voip stuff, like gizmo -- and skype is coming out 'soonish'." | 23:02 |
| nelson | Sell stock in Finland. It's all going down the tubes. | 23:02 |
| garrett | I think they still think it's a phone though d: | 23:02 |
| roope | It should be NOtaphonekIA | 23:02 |
| garrett | heh | 23:02 |
| garrett | NOKIA Notaphone800 | 23:03 |
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| sxpert | just like NOKIA Everythingbutaphone61 | 23:03 |
| tigert | I wish phones were phones | 23:04 |
| tigert | and tablets were tablets | 23:04 |
| Veggen | garret: I kept telling a guy that it wasn't a phone, and that it had wifi and bluetooth for communication. And demonstrated it in a restaurant...and after having tried it, he was dissapointed that it didn't use the GSM for network more automatically...."well, it doesn't have GSM"..."oh...but it's a Nokia?" "Yes, but not a phone" | 23:04 |
| tigert | well, tablets are tablets | 23:04 |
| glassss | you can buy phones that are phones if you really wish.. thing is that they just suck | 23:04 |
| glassss | 1110's are available for under 40bucks or something | 23:04 |
| glassss | etc etc | 23:04 |
| |tbb|_ | ive runned the script a second time, still it wont install me the sdk it | 23:04 |
| |tbb|_ | kit | 23:04 |
| Veggen | glasss: that said, it wouldn't have sucked if it was like now *and* had GSM built-in. | 23:04 |
| tigert | but my ideal phone would be the 5500 | 23:04 |
| sxpert | Veggen, I showed it to some old (60+) friend of mine coming out of the swimming pool... grabbed some open wifi connection and started browsing away :D | 23:04 |
| |tbb|_ | E: Scratchbox version is too old (scratchbox-core ) | 23:05 |
| roope | The tablet - phone thing is actually strange. Even if it would be a phone, would I replace my current phone with it? No, it's too large. Then, would I get two phone accounts, two SIM cards? Definitely not. | 23:05 |
| tigert | waterproof, EDGE, bluetooth | 23:05 |
| tigert | and a 2megapixel camera | 23:05 |
| |tbb|_ | apt-get install scratchbox-core says it is the latest allready | 23:05 |
| roope | So ... why exactly should it be a phone? | 23:05 |
| tigert | and its SMALL! | 23:05 |
| tigert | for a recent nokia phone | 23:06 |
| garrett | I'd like a bluetooth phone so I could at least back up my contacts | 23:06 |
| tigert | they get so huge :( | 23:06 |
| tigert | I want this kind of thing to talk with on the GSM network and to use it to get to the net with the tablet | 23:06 |
| garrett | I hate Verizon ): | 23:06 |
| tigert | I would never want to "sidetalk" with a N800 | 23:06 |
| tigert | that'd be just the silliest looking log ever | 23:06 |
| |tbb|_ | could anyone help | 23:07 |
| roope | Then again operators wouldn't mind to sell a dedicated separate line/number just for the tablet, but. | 23:07 |
| garrett | bluetooth headphone support for the N800 would be nice | 23:07 |
| garrett | (; | 23:07 |
| tigert | roope: yeah, it doesnt make sense | 23:07 |
| MDK | on the other hand, I noticed I'm using phone less and less | 23:07 |
| garrett | or maybe auto speaker-to-the-ear setting for voip software | 23:07 |
| MDK | I used to do a lot of gsm and sms few years ago | 23:07 |
| MDK | but nowadays I do like one call each 3 days | 23:08 |
| MDK | sometimes even less | 23:08 |
| MDK | almost no sms | 23:08 |
| garrett | (like go mono with only one speaker, and make it quieter) | 23:08 |
| MDK | IM and e-mail has taken over the with-friends communications | 23:08 |
| MDK | but maybe it's just me | 23:08 |
| garrett | MDK: yeah, it's just you | 23:08 |
| garrett | jk | 23:08 |
| garrett | (: | 23:08 |
| garrett | I think that's basically what happens a lot | 23:08 |
| everaldo | hey MDK | 23:09 |
| garrett | people are basically doing IM and SMS because phones are too expensive and the customer service & plans with phone companies suck | 23:09 |
| MDK | hey everaldo | 23:09 |
| garrett | and email too, although more and more younger people are doing IM and SMS more than email | 23:09 |
| everaldo | MDK, have you seen my comment in your blog? | 23:09 |
| kaatis | |tbb|_, what does "/scratchbox/tools/bin/sb-conf version" tell | 23:10 |
| keesj | I am just getting old and don't go out that often | 23:10 |
| garrett | oh, and myfacebookspacetube-ish sorts of stuff | 23:10 |
| MDK | everaldo: yeah, cool | 23:10 |
| MDK | everaldo: the hildon-1 is kinda significantly modified | 23:10 |
| MDK | we dropped a lot of old API's etc. | 23:10 |
| everaldo | MDK, yes... I must update files | 23:10 |
| MDK | if there are problems with the gapi parser or something -- scream ;) | 23:11 |
| |tbb|_ | You dont have active target in scratchbox chroot. | 23:11 |
| |tbb|_ | Please create one by running "sb-menu" before continuing | 23:11 |
| MDK | we can change it now, even including binary compatibility | 23:11 |
| |tbb|_ | Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed! | 23:11 |
| everaldo | MDK, but it is not so difficult, theres a XMl to do it | 23:11 |
| MDK | (if something is broken that is) | 23:11 |
| tko | MDK, oh, that reminds me.. is get_color() API sane now? :) | 23:11 |
| MDK | yeas, it's like in gtk | 23:12 |
| MDK | you pass an alloced struct | 23:12 |
| tko | \o/ | 23:12 |
| everaldo | MDK, about packaging... had you working on it? (I have it for 770) | 23:12 |
| MDK | tko: there is a bug in kusimas code when using propery access though | 23:13 |
| MDK | "small details like that..." | 23:13 |
| garrett | tigert, MDK: what's the best way to go about making a theme? | 23:14 |
| |tbb|_ | it looks like it could not determine which version is allready installed | 23:14 |
| kaatis | |tbb|_, those first two lines are ok as you don't have a target yet. but i think the third is caused by vdso. try "echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/vdso | 23:14 |
| kaatis | .. as root | 23:14 |
| maddler | tigert: your theme is *great* | 23:14 |
| Fatal | url? | 23:15 |
| MDK | garrett: I can bootstrap a theme package for you | 23:15 |
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| MDK | we need more good themes | 23:15 |
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| garrett | MDK: cool | 23:16 |
| garrett | yeah, I'd like to work on one sometime | 23:17 |
| MDK | you need sbox though | 23:17 |
| MDK | to build packages | 23:17 |
| tko | MDK, something to add to hildon-themes-tool maybe? hildon-theme-new mytheme ? :) | 23:17 |
| everaldo | MDK, I will working on it (mono package) on weekend, if you have some comments please send me a message. | 23:17 |
| garrett | MDK: I have sbox in ubuntu under parallels on my mac | 23:18 |
| garrett | (; | 23:18 |
| MDK | tko: yeah, exactly | 23:18 |
| garrett | just to have lots of layers | 23:18 |
| garrett | it works though | 23:18 |
| |tbb|_ | something strange, if i type echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/vdso it should create a file with 0 in it right | 23:18 |
| tko | MDK, what kind of build-dependencies did the packages have, actually? I think you might be able to build and use them on normal debian system | 23:18 |
| MDK | everaldo: cool. I'll be here, so just poke me when you have some questions | 23:18 |
| |tbb|_ | when i do that, i became no such file or directory .... | 23:19 |
| MDK | tko: yes, the whole system is built in such a way, that it doesn't depend on debian itself | 23:19 |
| MDK | tko: I mean, there is proper pkgconfig shit for everything etc. | 23:19 |
| MDK | though, there was something being a limitation | 23:20 |
| MDK | I don't remember what however | 23:20 |
| kaatis | |tbb|_, what kernel/distro are you running | 23:20 |
| tko | I meant that you should be able to build even the whole theme package on a normal debian distro, without sbox | 23:20 |
| tko | if you felt inclined to do so | 23:20 |
| MDK | yeah I know | 23:21 |
| |tbb|_ | debian 2.6.18 | 23:21 |
| garrett | but you'd want to test it somehow -- and would need sbox for that, right? | 23:21 |
| MDK | true | 23:21 |
| garrett | of course, on the device too | 23:21 |
| Fatal | you can't go around randomly creating files in /proc | 23:21 |
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| Fatal | either they exist or they don't | 23:21 |
| MDK | it'd be cool to have tango icons for the device | 23:22 |
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| MDK | I'm not deeply in love with some of our icons | 23:22 |
| MDK | I actually hate them badly | 23:23 |
| MDK | like the wifi-globe icon | 23:23 |
| garrett | yeah, I'd like Tango icons for it too | 23:23 |
| garrett | andreasn was working on the new g-i-t theme for the 770 | 23:23 |
| garrett | it more or less mostly worked on my N800 when I was playing around with it | 23:24 |
| garrett | I'll have to do the same thing, with Tango icons | 23:24 |
| kaatis | |tbb|_, do you have built vdso in your kernel | 23:24 |
| tko | jobi, I always forget, we need to make the personalization applet update icon theme as well | 23:24 |
| garrett | yeah that would be nice | 23:25 |
| MDK | good point | 23:25 |
| garrett | right now, one has to make it the "hicolor" theme, and reboot the device | 23:25 |
| MDK | we don't really support parallel icon themes installed at the moment | 23:25 |
| |tbb| | kaatis: well i dont know what it is so i dont think so | 23:25 |
| tko | well, you can have them *installed* nicely.. :) | 23:25 |
| jobi | tko: ok | 23:25 |
| garrett | the hicolor method currently works, but only supports 1 theme and is a bit painful to change (; | 23:26 |
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| jobi | MDK: you can specify in the gtkrc which default icon theme to use, meaning we could have others | 23:26 |
| tko | jobi, and get rid of the horrible gtkrc mangling :) | 23:26 |
| tko | jobi, have you tried appending 'gtk-icon-theme-name = "foo"' in the current-gtk-theme ? :) | 23:26 |
| garrett | the wasted blank space around the apps, especially on the right -- can that be fixed in the themes, or is that harder to address? | 23:27 |
| jobi | tko, MDK: have you figured out the application theming? | 23:27 |
| garrett | I mean, I'd rather have the scrollbars a little bit beefier instead of that space | 23:27 |
| MDK | jobi: working on it right now | 23:27 |
| tko | jobi, I think we have the logic figured out, MDK was about to hack something | 23:27 |
| MDK | jobi: you'll be the first affected in the line | 23:27 |
| garrett | and I know the scrollbars being larger can be done in GTK+ themes | 23:27 |
| MDK | (maemo-af-desktop rc split-up) | 23:27 |
| tko | jobi, we did come up with a related case, which is: how would you do plugin specific theming :) | 23:28 |
| jobi | tko: I did something like that when running hildon stuff on desktop, I had installed the hildon icon theme in parallel to the hicolor and specified hildon as default in gtkrc; it worked fine | 23:28 |
| tko | jobi, you can do it in the /usr/share/.../gtkrc, but it's not the right place to do it IMO | 23:29 |
| garrett | how can one force a refresh of the themes w/o having to reboot? | 23:29 |
| jobi | tko: agreed | 23:29 |
| zuh | garrett: yeah, setting slider-width and stepper-size should do it IIRC | 23:29 |
| jobi | garrett: change to another theme then back | 23:29 |
| tko | garrett, the right border of the application area is controlled in gtkrc, forgot the actual setting but it's there | 23:29 |
| jobi | tko: only for HildonWindow | 23:30 |
| tko | (or all borders are controlled in gtkrc) | 23:30 |
| tko | deprecated widgets don't count :) | 23:30 |
| jobi | AFAIK | 23:30 |
| MDK | garrett: however, the current theming system is done so, that you can't modify gtkrc from themes | 23:30 |
| garrett | jobi: that'll work for the icons and stuff too? | 23:30 |
| MDK | garrett: you can justr draw-in the theme in the existing layout | 23:31 |
| garrett | MDK: with the caching or such? | 23:31 |
| garrett | tko: oh, so one can turn that off? | 23:31 |
| MDK | garrett: well, that was made to simplify things | 23:31 |
| garrett | really? how so? | 23:31 |
| MDK | the gtkrc's are a huge beast | 23:31 |
| |tbb| | so kaatis what i have to do know? | 23:31 |
| MDK | prolly only 1% might be interesting to you | 23:31 |
| garrett | heh | 23:31 |
| garrett | I looked at a gtkrc; it is huge | 23:31 |
| tko | MDK, you'd probably benefit from writing the rationale somewhere :) | 23:32 |
| MDK | we don't have reliable ways to split the stuff | 23:32 |
| jobi | you can remove the cache files and it uses the non-cached gtkrc | 23:32 |
| MDK | so for now we have themes that are based on layouts | 23:32 |
| MDK | layouts = gtkrc + 'guides' for images | 23:32 |
| garrett | how do you regenerate the cached version? | 23:32 |
| MDK | it's generated on theme installation | 23:32 |
| garrett | theme installation == deb install? | 23:32 |
| MDK | yeas | 23:33 |
| MDK | *yes | 23:33 |
| MDK | you can regenerate ALL caches of ALL themes by running hildon-theme-recache-all | 23:33 |
| MDK | tko: this is what you should try running on gtk install btw | 23:34 |
| nomis | MDK: you're working with the hildon-widgets, right? | 23:34 |
| MDK | silently ignoring error of it not neing present | 23:34 |
| MDK | nomis: yes | 23:34 |
| nomis | MDK: how would I create a menu-like thingie with widgets embedded like the volume/brightness applets? | 23:34 |
| tko | MDK, can you file a bug so that I remember still tomorrow? | 23:35 |
| MDK | tko: sure | 23:35 |
| nomis | MDK: I tried creating a menu, embedding these widgets into MenuEntries. However, the Menu apparently ate the clicks. | 23:35 |
| garrett | also, it's annoying that there's this empty space around menus too | 23:35 |
| tko | nomis, they're dialogs with specific settings and widget names and whatnot to get the menu-like looks | 23:35 |
| garrett | I'd rather have the menu items being a touch larger and NOT have the empty space and border | 23:35 |
| tko | we don't have any howto for that, afaik | 23:36 |
| tko | we should, though | 23:36 |
| nomis | tko: yeah, I'd appreciate. I'd be glad about sourcecode :) | 23:36 |
| garrett | anyway, probably a lot of this can be tweaked in the thing that makes the gtkrc | 23:36 |
| garrett | right? (: | 23:36 |
| tko | garrett, yep.. it's all there somewhere | 23:36 |
| nomis | tko: (really, I don't understand why the volume/brightess aren't open - there simply cannot be very complicated stuff in them) | 23:37 |
| tko | most of it, at least | 23:37 |
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| garrett | is there a process viewer / manager for the device? | 23:38 |
| tko | nomis, strategy decisions, for better or worse.. home is open, plugins closed, etc.. | 23:38 |
| garrett | like if I have a crazy app taking lots of cpu and/or memory, being able to graphically kill it w/o a terminal would be nice | 23:38 |
| |tbb| | kaatis: still there? | 23:38 |
| garrett | I saw that if it does it for too long for a normal app, then there's a system dialog that should take care of things | 23:38 |
| nomis | tko: yeah :-/ | 23:38 |
| Tak | heh, the watchdog will kill it for you ;-) | 23:39 |
| |tbb| | what is this vdso? | 23:39 |
| tko | as I recall some hope applet was just recently uploaded to stage | 23:39 |
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| fish | is there still nothing like 'dialog' for the maemo ui? | 23:41 |
| MDK | dialog? | 23:42 |
| tko | huh? we have tons of dialogs | 23:42 |
| MDK | I think fish means curses dialog | 23:42 |
| fish | 'dialog' the ncurse menu stuff but i mean something like that for the maemo ui | 23:42 |
| tko | oh, that dialog | 23:42 |
| mgedmin | zenity? | 23:42 |
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| MDK | zenity | 23:42 |
| tko | zenity ? | 23:42 |
| MDK | haha | 23:42 |
| fish | is there a port of it? | 23:42 |
| tko | if it's not in the catalog it doesn't exist :) | 23:43 |
| fish | i was looking at zenity but it depends one many libraries which are not port of maemo | 23:43 |
| MDK | huh? | 23:43 |
| tko | must be the debian package which are always built with all possible dependencies | 23:44 |
| nomis | tko: didn't you say that you have a GTK-introspection tool? Could you invoke it on the volumebar in the volume-applets menu? :-] | 23:44 |
| garrett | GTK-introspection tool? | 23:44 |
| s-ndh-c | how do i do a screenshot? | 23:44 |
| garrett | like you can click and discover things about GTK+ widgets? | 23:45 |
| MDK | garrett: not really ;) | 23:45 |
| garrett | oh; I was getting excited | 23:45 |
| MDK | garrett: a gobject-api introspection tool | 23:45 |
| MDK | boring stuff but helpfull | 23:45 |
| garrett | GLE, way back in the day, was something useful like that | 23:45 |
| tko | nomis, it works only on static types, only what you can figure out starting from foo_get_type() function | 23:46 |
| garrett | and I've been hoping that someone make another tool like that for many years now | 23:46 |
| nomis | tko: ah, ok. | 23:46 |
| garrett | at-poke is kinda sorta almost there | 23:46 |
| garrett | but it isn't useful for doing wacky theme related stuff | 23:46 |
| tko | there was some tool like that.. from google or ibm maybe | 23:46 |
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| tko | (just click on a widget and you get a lot of stuff) | 23:46 |
| MDK | garrett: gtk theming, from the artist point of view, sucks big time | 23:46 |
| kaatis | |tbb|, sometimes | 23:47 |
| garrett | yes, totally | 23:47 |
| tko | didn't show style properties though IIRC | 23:47 |
| garrett | I wholeheartedly agree | 23:47 |
| alp | MDK: can you explain which of the hildon libraries need bindings? | 23:47 |
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| MDK | alp: hildon-1 is the first target | 23:47 |
| kaatis | |tbb|, sorry don't know a solution to your problem. never had that or heard of that problem. maybe try with a newer kernel? | 23:47 |
| tko | argh. we really need to write these things somewhere | 23:47 |
| garrett | hildon-based stuff for a desktop theme engine could be promising though | 23:47 |
| alp | ok, i did that one. things like hildonlgpl seem to be deprecated though | 23:47 |
| MDK | alp: (former hildon-libs, some basic gtk-based widgets we're using) | 23:47 |
| garrett | but it would still suck, although probably a lot less | 23:48 |
| |tbb| | kaatis: my kernel doesnt support that right now, and im not able to install a new one :/ never done that | 23:48 |
| MDK | hildonlgpl goes away, don't bother | 23:48 |
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| MDK | alp: 'did that one'? What you mean? | 23:48 |
| tko | there's a page in wiki listing stuff that is changing, but not completely what exactly are they changing into | 23:48 |
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| alp | MDK: http://www.ndesk.org/nbind/ <- i updated the hildon c# binding from 2005 earlier today | 23:48 |
| alp | the old binding also had hildonfm | 23:49 |
| tko | MDK, http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HAF/APICleanup | 23:49 |
| kaatis | |tbb|, then i'd try the vmware player image with everything preinstalled | 23:49 |
| MDK | alp: cool | 23:50 |
| MDK | alp: the new hildon needs to be tested with gtk 2.10 though | 23:50 |
| MDK | crap, we need images or something | 23:50 |
| tko | poke fer :-] | 23:51 |
| alp | so this is not actually on the device? | 23:51 |
| MDK | alp: not, *ugh*, yet | 23:51 |
| keesj | alp, are c# 2.0 partial types open classes? | 23:51 |
| MDK | and don't ask when | 23:51 |
| tko | basically it is possible to take your n800, install sardine unstable + experimental and still have it not blow up | 23:51 |
| MDK | since all we could do than is smile in a silly way | 23:51 |
| alp | keesj: it's just a compiler feature, nothing clever like extension methods | 23:52 |
| MDK | tko: 'pray' should be added to the process at some point | 23:52 |
| MDK | alp: libosso would be a good target afaik | 23:52 |
| alp | once compiled the type is "closed" i guess in your terminology | 23:52 |
| alp | MDK: do you know if libosso is a thin wrapper over the dbus api or has more smarts? | 23:53 |
| MDK | good question | 23:53 |
| alp | history has shown it's best to avoid libdbus if possible | 23:53 |
| MDK | hah | 23:53 |
| keesj | alp alright thanks | 23:53 |
| MDK | tko: hints? | 23:53 |
| tko | alp, you mean more than average unstable library? | 23:54 |
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| tko | alp, it's pretty much a thin wrapper around few things | 23:54 |
| alp | tko: don't know, i rewrote it in c# and my implementation has been pretty popular. the libdbus c# binding did not work well | 23:54 |
| tigert | garrett: the spacing should be possible to change with just gtk theming | 23:54 |
| tigert | garrett: look at hildon window styling | 23:54 |
| tigert | it should have some borders there | 23:54 |
| tigert | try removing the right side altogether | 23:55 |
| tigert | what sucks is a lot of stuff is interdependent | 23:55 |
| alp | tko: cool. i'll put aside a few hours and see if it can be ported | 23:55 |
| tigert | it would be nice to have a small gui grid apo to resize the different areas in sync | 23:55 |
| tko | HildonWindow::borders = { 24, 24, 0, 24 } -- that's left,right,top,bottom if I'm not mistaken | 23:55 |
| tigert | yeah | 23:56 |
| tigert | and the graphics to be changed accordingly | 23:56 |
| tigert | tko: do you know dynadraw btw? | 23:56 |
| tigert | THAT would rule for a sketching tool | 23:56 |
| tko | MDK, the thing you showed today? | 23:56 |
| MDK | i was showing it | 23:56 |
| tigert | federico has some ancient code for gtk 1.2 that can probably easily be ported to gtk2 | 23:56 |
| tigert | need to try it on the device display | 23:57 |
| tko | yea, it looked pretty nice | 23:57 |
| MDK | everaldo: do you have some smart solution for devkit? | 23:57 |
| tko | not that I would have any use for it, though :) | 23:57 |
| tigert | some predefined tools and we'd have a cool skething tool | 23:57 |
| everaldo | MDK, no why? | 23:57 |
| tigert | tko: it is a LOT easier to draw nice curves with it | 23:57 |
| tigert | than with the regular pen tool | 23:57 |
| MDK | everaldo: it's externally installable but it needs to 'provide' apt mono package | 23:57 |
| everaldo | MDK, well.. what you mean as devkit? | 23:57 |
| MDK | everaldo: perl does something similarly | 23:58 |
| everaldo | MDK, humm... CPAN? | 23:58 |
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| MDK | no no | 23:58 |
| MDK | I mean -- you have mono vm running in the outside (devkit) | 23:58 |
| MDK | as you don't want to run it through emulation on the arm target | 23:59 |
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| everaldo | MDK, I have no solution | 23:59 |
| MDK | but the devkit needs to hack the apt database to make it look like mono is installed | 23:59 |
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| MDK | so that some other mono packages don't start pulling mono | 23:59 |
| MDK | perl devkit work similarly | 23:59 |
| MDK | perl is running on the outside of sbox (for perf reasons?) | 23:59 |
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