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| |tbb| | heya, maddler | 00:46 |
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| Jaffa | Right, bed time. | 00:51 |
| Jaffa | g'night | 00:51 |
| |tbb| | n8 jaffa | 00:51 |
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| vol | anyone have an 800 that just randomly wont boot up past the white nokia screen? | 02:03 |
| maddler | vol: never happened here... | 02:03 |
| vol | i had it plugged in worked fine for 12 hours and now it wont boot | 02:04 |
| MDK | vol: experienced here | 02:04 |
| MDK | vol: had same problem | 02:04 |
| vol | howd you get around it? | 02:04 |
| MDK | vol: enable and disable rd flags and reflash | 02:05 |
| MDK | don't ask... | 02:05 |
| vol | wow | 02:05 |
| MDK | err, rd mode I mean | 02:06 |
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| vol | yea i figured thats what you meant | 02:06 |
| vol | was it a certain app that broke it you think? | 02:06 |
| MDK | you haven't done anything 'particular' before it happened? | 02:07 |
| vol | i installed some software off the repositories listed for it in the wiki | 02:07 |
| MDK | in my case - i found my device in this state after night | 02:07 |
| vol | yea, it was sitting on my desk plugged in for a few hours after working fine all day | 02:08 |
| MDK | vol: you're not using the e-mail client? | 02:08 |
| vol | no, i tried setting up the account but never finished setting it up | 02:09 |
| vol | i had jabber running, dropbear, cifs kernel module installed | 02:09 |
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| MDK | hmm, okay, need to sleep | 02:10 |
| MDK | try my solution | 02:11 |
| MDK | you might try reflashing first, but in my case it didn't help | 02:12 |
| vol | alright, thanks for the advice | 02:14 |
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| vol | MDK: that worked | 02:25 |
| vol | thanks for the help | 02:26 |
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| * minra is gonna have TV on his n770 soon :P | 02:45 | |
| minra | hooray for open source | 02:45 |
| SyntaxNinja | yay, but tv usually sucks ;) | 02:48 |
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| maddler | a DVD player would have been better... | 02:50 |
| maddler | as well as a VGA out! :D | 02:50 |
| minra | tv does, a pvr is the solution | 02:51 |
| minra | just need to figure out the best way to stream to mplayer | 02:52 |
| desrt | a vga out port wouldn't physicall fit on a 770 :p | 02:53 |
| cesman | minra: I use mythtv and I have a userjob that transcode any recording to an avi format playable on 770/800 | 02:54 |
| minra | lavc/mpeg4/divx or xvid? | 02:54 |
| cesman | minra: I have a simple wrapper around the 770-encode.pl script | 02:55 |
| minra | ok thats lavc iirc... i cant recall getting an xvid to play smoothly even with the dsp yuv conversion | 02:56 |
| minra | i'll get mythtv going when i score a better pc. for now i have to roll my own | 02:58 |
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| * maddler hits the bed! | 03:06 | |
| |tbb| | is there any vid-converter script allready optimised with the best settings on a n800? | 03:08 |
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| Tak|770 | evening gents | 03:26 |
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| xtbbx | is it normal that the built in email client wont receive emails from the account where it was send? for example me@gmail.com write an email over the N800 to me@gmail.com, the email would not come into the incomming folder | 03:31 |
| Tak|770 | are you sure it's a client thing and not a server thing ? | 03:32 |
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| xtbbx | if i log into the gmailaccount over the web, the mail is in the incomming folder | 03:34 |
| xtbbx | on the n800 only in the sent folder | 03:34 |
| sp3000 | xtbbx: gmail's pop doesn'tt present msgs you sent | 03:36 |
| sp3000 | via gmail's smtp | 03:37 |
| xtbbx | ah k | 03:37 |
| sp3000 | it's annoying, yes :/ | 03:38 |
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| Tak|770 | On 1/27/07, Anuj Verma (Kevin) <kevin.verma@gmail.com> wrote: | 03:43 |
| Tak|770 | > https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=979 | 03:43 |
| Tak|770 | > | 03:43 |
| Tak|770 | > Thanks for your kind attention, | 03:43 |
| Tak|770 | > | 03:43 |
| Tak|770 | > Cheers, | 03:43 |
| Tak|770 | > Kevin | 03:43 |
| Tak|770 | > | 03:43 |
| Tak|770 | > _______________________________________________ | 03:43 |
| Tak|770 | > maemo-developers mailing list | 03:43 |
| Tak|770 | > maemo-developers@maemo.org | 03:43 |
| Tak|770 | > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers | 03:44 |
| Tak|770 | > | 03:44 |
| Tak|770 | omg wtf | 03:44 |
| Fatal | omg wtf | 03:44 |
| Fatal | why did you paste all that? | 03:44 |
| Tak|770 | I'm so sorry | 03:44 |
| Tak|770 | 770 autopasted :( | 03:44 |
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| xtbbx | someone should kickban Tak , jk | 03:47 |
| Tak|770 | opera doesn't seem to clear the thumbpad buffer | 03:47 |
| Tak|770 | so is anyone else's 770 losing little chunks of plastic from the area surrounding the plugs on the bottom ? | 03:53 |
| xtbbx | not me | 03:55 |
| xtbbx | is there a wikipedia offline suite, optimized for N devices 800x480 available? | 03:56 |
| Tak|770 | the first time, I just thought I bumped it on something or dropped it, but it just happened now with me holding it | 03:57 |
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| Tak|770 | oh wow - I totally didn' know about the application chooser! | 04:12 |
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| Tak|770 | howdy rev | 04:29 |
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| shapr | SHAZAM! | 05:08 |
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| Markov | hey what's the default passwd for locking on the n800? | 05:12 |
| Markov | found it. 12345 :) | 05:14 |
| Tak|770 | it's like the combination to some idiot's luggage | 05:15 |
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| * rev gets an 800! | 05:35 | |
| rev | tak | 05:35 |
| rev | Tak|770: | 05:35 |
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| Tak|770 | rev: eh? | 05:43 |
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| rev | !! | 07:35 |
| * rev dances | 07:35 | |
| rev | Tak: you thar? | 07:35 |
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| Tak | here | 07:43 |
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| * Tak shovels snow on top of northernp | 07:49 | |
| northernp | hey! | 07:49 |
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| rev | sorry tak... i don't know why i wanted to tell you so bad, but ... i got selected for one of the super-discounted N800s... i was totally pumped. i guess i was telling you because i hope ryou get picked for one, because of all the stuff you've ported. that's all. blah! | 07:51 |
| Tak | lol | 08:00 |
| Tak | congrats man | 08:00 |
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| zuh | Tak: about the 770 casing falling apart, maybe it's related to this: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388 | 08:25 |
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| Tak | zuh: that's exactly it, thanks! | 08:27 |
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| Hydroxide | Hey, I just upgraded my 770 to IT2006 (latest version), added the maemo-hackers.org repository, and tried to install dropbear-client. It was unable to install it, leaving it partially installed, and now I can neither reinstall nor uninstall it. dpkg --purge from the command line as root gives an unknown operand "==" to the [ command, and then a segfault | 09:02 |
| Hydroxide | how can I resolve this? | 09:02 |
| Hydroxide | something is definitely broken about the dropbear-client package or something it depends on, and this will cause problems for anyone who tries to follow the HowDoIBecomeRoot2 instructions on an IT2006 770 with the latest update. | 09:04 |
| Hydroxide | never mind, I found out the problem. who do I get in contact with to suggest a fix to the postinst/prerm scripts for the dropbear-client package? it's simply using "==" instead of "=" in several places that's causing the problem | 09:13 |
| tigert | see the package maintainer name perhaps? | 09:48 |
| tigert | or post to the devel list | 09:48 |
| tigert | btw there is openssh package too | 09:48 |
| tigert | in maemo repository I think | 09:48 |
| tigert | but now I got to run, later | 09:49 |
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| Rotund | anyone know of a 770 package for Open Handed Contacts? | 10:01 |
| Hydroxide | tigert: thanks. I switched to openssh anyway since I want to make the ssh server listen only on localhost (and require port forwarding for remote access) | 10:03 |
| Hydroxide | Rotund: now, can anyone tell me where to find a working openvpn .deb? The site mentioned on ApplicationCatalog2006 seems to be down | 10:05 |
| Hydroxide | err, that was not specifically directed toward Rotund | 10:05 |
| Hydroxide | sorry :) | 10:05 |
| Rotund | n/p | 10:05 |
| Hydroxide | I'd ideally like the version with lzo compression support | 10:05 |
| Hydroxide | but I can't seem to access either one, nor the port's homepage | 10:05 |
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| [mbm] | anyone know where to get libsqlite0 for the n800? | 10:23 |
| maddler | Hydroxide: it's a problem with busybox | 10:23 |
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| maddler | Hydroxide: get full dropbear at http://www.komputika.net/maemo/ | 10:23 |
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| Hydroxide | maddler: it's not a problem with busybox, actually, the "==" syntax is bash-specific, not standard POSIX sh. replacing every occurrence of "==" in the maintainer scripts with "=" fixed the problem. | 10:45 |
| Hydroxide | maddler: /bin/sh shouldn't be expected to support "==" but the dropbear scripts in the maemo-hackers.org/apt repository do | 10:45 |
| [mbm] | think support for the == was added to busybox at some point | 10:46 |
| [mbm] | but it is a bashism | 10:46 |
| Hydroxide | yes, it's definitely a bashism. and it's unnecessary for the maintainer scripts to use | 10:47 |
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| * [mbm] remebers everything breaking when ubuntu switched to dash for sh | 10:48 | |
| Hydroxide | if they want to insist on using it, they should add a dependency on bash and change the maintainer-scripts to specify bash in the #! line | 10:48 |
| Hydroxide | oh did they? I didn't know about that. in Debian I think bash is still default sh, but it's definitely a bug in Debian's eyes if a package breaks with dash as sh | 10:48 |
| tko | [mbm], IIRC there's a newer version of sqlite on n800 | 10:49 |
| [mbm] | tko: trying to get maemo-mapper running and I can't seem to find all the packages it depends on | 10:49 |
| [mbm] | namely the libsqlite0 | 10:49 |
| Jaffa | [mbm]: installing from the repo or direct from the deb? | 10:49 |
| [mbm] | I didn't see it in any of the 2007 repos but it was listed as compatible so I tried the deb directly | 10:50 |
| Hydroxide | maddler: anyway, I got the maemo-hackers.org/apt version of dropbear-client installed by hacking the maintainer scripts after it had failed to install and then running dpkg --configure -a | 10:52 |
| Hydroxide | maddler: and then later uninstalled it to switch to openssh so that I could get the server listening only on localhost | 10:53 |
| Hydroxide | [mbm], Jaffa: you don't happen to know the answer to my openvpn question, do you? (i.e. what site should I get the IT2006 deb from instead of the non-working one listed on ApplicationCatalog2006?) | 10:54 |
| [mbm] | there was another site that had a package just called 'dropbear' | 10:56 |
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| [mbm] | hmm found the sqlite in the 2.0 contrib | 10:56 |
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| Hydroxide | ya, but I don't need dropbear any more. the only thing I'm looking for is openvpn. as I said before, the sites listed on the app catalog for IT2006 don't work | 10:58 |
| [mbm] | oh, dunno | 10:59 |
| Hydroxide | and I tried searching the new app catalog at test.maemo.org, which doesn't provide any results even for IT2007 | 10:59 |
| [mbm] | saw a vpn concentrator there, didn' | 11:01 |
| [mbm] | didn't see oenvpn | 11:01 |
| Hydroxide | yeah | 11:02 |
| [mbm] | hmm cool, load meter from the 2.0 still works | 11:06 |
| Hydroxide | are you on a n800? | 11:07 |
| Hydroxide | I ordered mine recently, and hopefully it'll be on its way soon if not already. much thanks to nokia for the discount code, which actually made me able to afford it | 11:07 |
| [mbm] | yeah I'm using an n800 | 11:08 |
| Hydroxide | cool | 11:08 |
| Hydroxide | is it much improved over the 770? I haven't actually seen one in person yet | 11:09 |
| [mbm] | never really played around with the 770 much, although my friends who have seem to be drooling over my 800 | 11:10 |
| Hydroxide | ah | 11:10 |
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| * maddler back on track! | 12:00 | |
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| c0ffee | moin | 12:11 |
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| guerby | Hydroxide, did you find openvpn and lzo deb? If not I have them and I can put them on my site | 12:18 |
| maddler | c0ffee: heya... | 12:21 |
| [mbm] | hmm .. hp48 emu doesn't work in 2007 | 12:22 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 12:49 |
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| noir | hi | 13:04 |
| Hydroxide | guerby: I was able to find the lzo deb. as for openvpn, I didn't find a .deb, but I did find a downloadable executable that was openvpn with lzo support | 13:08 |
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| guerby | Hydroxide, ok I'm putting the openvpn deb on my site, a sec | 13:08 |
| Hydroxide | guerby: I'd still encourage you to put it on your site and update the maemowiki ApplicationCatalog2006 site, but I don't need it at the moment | 13:08 |
| Hydroxide | guerby: thanks for offering, though | 13:09 |
| guerby | Hydroxide, http://guerby.org/ftp/nokia800-deb/ | 13:11 |
| Hydroxide | guerby: well, I was talking about my nokia 770. but, when my n800 arrives in a few days, I'll remember that link. thanks. | 13:12 |
| guerby | Hydroxide, these are n770 deb | 13:12 |
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| guerby | no change for n800 | 13:12 |
| Hydroxide | guerby: ah. in that case i'll remember it when I get my n800 and/or if I need to reflash my 770 :) | 13:13 |
| Hydroxide | thanks | 13:13 |
| Hydroxide | guerby: wait, I thought it was 2.0-2maemo2 that had lzo support, not 2.0-1maemo2 | 13:14 |
| guerby | Hydroxide, will add a README what I did is installed -1 and then overwrote openvpn binary with the one provided (plus installing liblzo) | 13:15 |
| Hydroxide | ah | 13:15 |
| Hydroxide | O dpm | 13:15 |
| Hydroxide | err | 13:16 |
| Hydroxide | I don't particularly need the .deb then, right? the functionality is self-contained within the openvpn binary | 13:16 |
| Hydroxide | the rest is just things like a changelog and possibly a startup script (which might be useful if you want to seriously customize your network setup to start a VPN connection on certain WLANs | 13:17 |
| Hydroxide | but is otherwise unnecessary. even for that it's not 100% needed) | 13:17 |
| guerby | Hydroxide, I downloaded my setup before the -2 was done, I don't know if the -2 does work (and I can't download it) | 13:19 |
| Hydroxide | ah | 13:19 |
| guerby | Hydroxide, I added a README and liblzo1 I use | 13:19 |
| Hydroxide | do you have the source package (.dsc, .diff.gz, .orig.tar.gz) | 13:20 |
| guerby | Hydroxide, no (and I don't have scratchbox :) | 13:22 |
| Hydroxide | ah | 13:22 |
| Hydroxide | I know I made a lzo-enabled deb for IT2005 | 13:22 |
| guerby | Hydroxide, the URL and patch was mentionned in the app2006 at some point | 13:22 |
| guerby | let me search | 13:23 |
| Hydroxide | the app catalog 2006 doesn't have any working links for openvpn except to download a binary executable | 13:23 |
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| Hydroxide | I just installed IT2006 today so I haven't gotten around to setting up a dev environment yet | 13:23 |
| Hydroxide | (I have the old dev environment for IT2005 still) | 13:24 |
| guerby | Hydroxide, patch probably was on http://www.rahkonen.org/openvpn.html but it doesn't work right now | 13:24 |
| Hydroxide | yeah | 13:24 |
| guerby | Hydroxide, anyway openvpn+vncviewer is really nice :) | 13:25 |
| Hydroxide | when I have a bit of time for maemo hacking I can check my IT2005 scratchbox environment to see if the relevant patch is there. do you know if it has changed from Maemo 1 to Maemo2 other than getting rid of /var/lib/install ? | 13:25 |
| guerby | /var/lib is no longer there, but I don't know about other changes | 13:29 |
| guerby | just using the stuff for now, I should install scratchbox one of these days :) | 13:29 |
| c0ffee | normal .deb files are now used for installing | 13:30 |
| c0ffee | not this strange 2005 format anymore | 13:30 |
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| Hydroxide | guerby: /var/lib is clearly still there, but /var/lib/install is gone. /var/lib is a standard part of any system | 13:33 |
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| Hydroxide | c0ffee: the 2005 format was still a standard .deb, except that you had to install it into /var/lib/install instead of the root directory, meaning that things like apt wouldn't work normally without some setup and a lot of things couldn't be installed into important parts of the system | 13:34 |
| Hydroxide | c0ffee: I agree the 2006 way of using the normal system framework is better | 13:35 |
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| Hydroxide | well, I found my patch to -2.0-1maemo1, but I don't have the source package for -2.0-1maemo2 | 13:42 |
| maddler | damn... I can't get gizmo working... | 13:43 |
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| maddler | looks like I can't change my online status... | 13:59 |
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| melmoth | Mhhh, i have to copy a file in a Makefile, the source file is dependent of the architecture being used for the build | 14:04 |
| melmoth | any idea how to manage this in the Makefile ? | 14:04 |
| zuh | I'm not sure how "bash" this is, but: "if test `uname -m` == "arm" ; then echo foo ; else echo bar ; fi" seems to work | 14:16 |
| melmoth | hmm, thats an idean. | 14:17 |
| melmoth | right now, instead of doing install -m 644 build/lib.linux-armv5tel-2.5/_Sword.so $(DESTDIR)/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/ | 14:17 |
| zuh | The arch should be defined to some variable in Makefiles (with autotools) though, but not sure which one... You'd want to use that. | 14:17 |
| melmoth | i choose to do: | 14:17 |
| melmoth | find -name Sword.o -exec cp {} . \; | 14:17 |
| melmoth | install -m 644 ./Sword.o $(DESTDIR)/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/ | 14:17 |
| melmoth | it s quick and dirty, but heu, the whole package is already not that orthodox :) | 14:18 |
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| tko | melmoth, what about looking at the Makefile itself how it chooses to put the .so where it ends up? | 14:30 |
| tko | melmoth, or (just guessing) how about using python setup.py install ? | 14:31 |
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| melmoth | because its not a python code, its c++ generated by swig , and the make file is sort of crappy: i made it myself :) | 14:34 |
| melmoth | But now, i have workarouded the problem | 14:34 |
| melmoth | it s just....ugly | 14:34 |
| melmoth | but hey, it work :) | 14:35 |
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| jose | hi | 15:36 |
| jose | what is the degault user password? | 15:37 |
| jose | (in the n800) | 15:37 |
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| c0ffee | it's unset afaik | 15:37 |
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| |tbb| | kulve: have u checked the url i have paste u, for hacking the software keyboard | 15:43 |
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| jose | so is it possible to do ssh as user? | 15:51 |
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| jose | i have dissable the root login and i cannot gain root access | 15:52 |
| maddler | jose: try installing becomeroot package and the using: sudo gainroot | 15:53 |
| maddler | then set a password for user: passw user | 15:53 |
| jose | thanks maddler | 15:53 |
| maddler | np | 15:53 |
| c0ffee | passwd :) | 15:53 |
| maddler | pardon :) | 15:54 |
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| pancake | hi | 15:58 |
| pancake | can I use the maemo 3.0 sdk for developing apps for n770? | 15:58 |
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| jose | maddler: i get the following error: "cal_read_block(r&d_mode): size zero, block not found?" | 16:00 |
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| c0ffee | pancake, no, but you can install the 2.1 rootstrap in the same sandbox | 16:05 |
| c0ffee | see syslog.movial.fi | 16:05 |
| pancake | ok | 16:06 |
| pancake | tx | 16:06 |
| pancake | nokia has no plans for os2007 of n770? | 16:06 |
| c0ffee | see the url in the topic | 16:07 |
| |tbb| | pancake: not nokia but the maemo-hackers indeed | 16:08 |
| pancake | i know ;) | 16:08 |
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| c0ffee | \o/ devesh | 16:11 |
| devesh | c0ffee: hello there | 16:12 |
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| |tbb| | wth, if i try to install tar on the n800 with following command N84U:~# apt-get install tar | 16:38 |
| |tbb| | i get a never ending list of packages which will be removed beginning with | 16:39 |
| |tbb| | apt-https bluez-utils busybox chavo codelockui dnsmasq docpurge dpkg hildon-control-panel hildon-control-panel-navigatorapplet | 16:39 |
| |tbb| | ending with | 16:40 |
| |tbb| | pre-installed-videos ssh sysvinit vncviewer | 16:40 |
| |tbb| | 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 109 to remove and 4 not upgraded. | 16:40 |
| |tbb| | whats up on there? | 16:40 |
| c0ffee | missing repositories i would guess | 16:41 |
| nomis | maybe tar conflicts with busybox and all the other stuff depends on busybox. | 16:41 |
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| |tbb| | WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed. | 16:45 |
| |tbb| | dpkg busybox (due to dpkg) sysvinit | 16:45 |
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| |tbb| | anyway to install tar on another way | 16:45 |
| sp3000 | you might be able to --force-somethings usefully if you know why there's a conflict | 16:48 |
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| |tbb| | anyone remember the scriptname to start programms on the N from ssh | 16:57 |
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| [mbm] | |tbb|: you can specify a command to run right on the ssh commandline as you log in | 17:08 |
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| |tbb| | i would start programms like the built in emailclient on the n800 from cmdline | 17:15 |
| [mbm] | is that a question? | 17:15 |
| |tbb| | therefore i need a startupscript IIRC | 17:16 |
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| kkito | hello | 17:27 |
| kkito | are there here the guy that ported scummvm to maemo? | 17:27 |
| * hap spent few hours trying to get a debian/etch on vmware for the maemo SDL | 17:44 | |
| hap | SDK | 17:44 |
| hap | i feel like the ubuntu vmware image will do just fine. | 17:45 |
| hap | when I do af-sb-init.sh start within the scratchbox terminal, I have windows in the zephyr x window, but no application, no left icons, etc | 17:46 |
| hap | is that supposed to be that way? | 17:46 |
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| ajturner | I finally d/l the maemo vmware image - working great so far | 17:58 |
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| lardman | Afternoon all. Does anyone else get the odd thing that when you lock your n800 near a known access point, when you wake it up, it thinks it's connected (and shows the little icon)? | 18:04 |
| lardman | but isn't in fact connected, and was disconnected before having the screen/keyboard locked | 18:05 |
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| hap | nevermind. | 18:21 |
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| lardman | hmm, curious, it would appear that passing -mfpu=vfp on its own to GCC is not enough, -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp is needed otherwise softfloat code is generated | 18:27 |
| jose | hi guys | 18:28 |
| jose | i need help flashing the n800 | 18:28 |
| jose | i download the image RX-34_2007SE_2.2006.51-6_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM and the flasher-3.0, but in the help i cannot find the command i need to use to flahs this kind of image | 18:29 |
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| jose | anyone could help me? | 18:29 |
| Veggen | It's the same as for the others. | 18:29 |
| zuh | A command of 'flasher -f -F <image>' should do it (as root) | 18:29 |
| jose | thanks zuh | 18:30 |
| jose | i will try :D | 18:30 |
| Veggen | https://maemo.org/maemowiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux?highlight=%28CategoryFlashing%29 | 18:30 |
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| Veggen | https://maemo.org/maemowiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux will do...damned non-paste-friendly urls ;) | 18:31 |
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| jose | thanks Veggen | 18:32 |
| jose | i was searching for quite a while and i didn find this howto :D | 18:38 |
| jose | i need to get used with the maemo web | 18:39 |
| hap | i need to get the SDK working and get used to it :) | 18:50 |
| lardman | nice, n800 runs at ~54Mflops compared with 770's ~1.7Mflops | 18:51 |
| lardman | not all that close to my build machine's ~949Mflops of course | 18:52 |
| lardman | though that's close to a clock-speed scaling difference | 18:52 |
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| c0ffee | hum hum | 19:33 |
| c0ffee | so the qemu can't execute armv6 instructions it seems | 19:33 |
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| hap | hmm | 19:34 |
| hap | my scratchbox doesn't work, it complains about SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD being not set | 19:35 |
| hap | and apt-get -f install fails :( | 19:35 |
| hap | any hint? | 19:35 |
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| konfoo | is the latest xterm in any repo? maemo-hackers.. ? | 19:39 |
| lardman | konfoo: for the n800? | 19:39 |
| konfoo | lardman|gone: yeah | 19:39 |
| konfoo | damn bitchx autocomplete :) | 19:40 |
| lardman | in the maemo one, you need to enable reb-pill mode | 19:40 |
| lardman | s/reb/red | 19:40 |
| konfoo | ok good deal | 19:40 |
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| lardman | c0ffee: how did you test? | 19:41 |
| guerby | lardman, what benchmark are u using to measure flops? | 19:42 |
| c0ffee | marc2.theaimsgroup.com/?l=qemu-devel&m=114364317919922&w=2 | 19:42 |
| lardman | guerby: That was just the first line of flops.c | 19:42 |
| lardman | guerby: I have results from whetstone (and dhrystone too) | 19:43 |
| c0ffee | but the 770 obviously throughs SIGILL on simd instructions | 19:43 |
| guerby | lardman, N800 as hard fp? | 19:43 |
| guerby | s/as/has | 19:43 |
| c0ffee | so it might be possible to write some software emulation | 19:43 |
| lardman | guerby: yes | 19:43 |
| hap | [sbox-SDK_X86: ~] > fakeroot apt-get -f install | 19:43 |
| guerby | lardman, what GCC flags did you use while compiling? | 19:43 |
| hap | Setting up ssh (3.8p1-3osso7) ... | 19:43 |
| hap | /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set | 19:43 |
| hap | anyone had such an error ? | 19:44 |
| lardman | c0ffee: Ah, not a good thing to read | 19:44 |
| lardman | guerby: to get fp? | 19:44 |
| guerby | lardman, yep | 19:44 |
| greentux | evevning... somebody knows a where I can get a beta tinymail paket for 770? | 19:44 |
| lardman | guerby: -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp | 19:44 |
| tko | hap, you should've configure the armel target to use qemu.. maybe time to reconfigure, or export SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD=qemu-arm ? | 19:44 |
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| lardman | guerby: -mfpu=vfp on its own doesn't do anything | 19:45 |
| guerby | lardman, they kept the ABI compat | 19:46 |
| guerby | `soft' and `hard' are equivalent to `-msoft-float' and | 19:46 |
| guerby | `-mhard-float' respectively. `softfp' allows the generation of | 19:46 |
| guerby | floating point instructions, but still uses the soft-float calling | 19:46 |
| guerby | conventions. | 19:46 |
| hap | tko: hmm i tried that, strange | 19:46 |
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| lardman | guerby: yep | 19:47 |
| hap | tko: now I got Starting system message bus: /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: qemu-arm: No such file or directory | 19:47 |
| hap | tko: i got the ubuntu vmware image, shouldn't that be already set? | 19:47 |
| tko | hap, no idea, sorry | 19:50 |
| tko | hmm, or maybe it's just SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD=qemu (see /scratchbox/tools/bin) | 19:50 |
| jacques | lardman, do you know if maemo 3.0 is built with -mpu=vfp ? | 19:50 |
| hap | hmm ok | 19:52 |
| lardman | jacques: Not sure, I guess some parts are | 19:54 |
| jacques | like maybe libm.so | 19:54 |
| lardman | jacques: the fact that only some binaries needed to be changed for os2007on770 indicates that not everything uses fp, but also that some stuff does | 19:54 |
| jacques | I was going to get objdump out and look | 19:54 |
| lardman | jacques: Oh yes, libm must be to get these results | 19:54 |
| lardman | I'll stick them up in raw form in a tick so people can take a look-see | 19:55 |
| jacques | thanks :-) | 19:55 |
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| lardman | ~lart Nvu for being hard to use | 20:03 |
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| lardman | jacques: Take a look in http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/ | 20:11 |
| lardman | jacques: 3 txt files which contain the copied & poasted outputs, I'll organise them a little better when I find a better html editor | 20:12 |
| lardman | s/poasted/pasted | 20:12 |
| lardman | jacques: The Compiling things file gives the commands used and urls for the benchmark code | 20:13 |
| jacques | lardman, cool, looking | 20:14 |
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| lardman | np, let me know if you see any wierd results, I'd compiled some of the flops.vfp benchmarks using just -mfpu=vfp and was wondering why they weren't very quick | 20:15 |
| lardman | adding in the -mfloat-abi=softfp sorted that out | 20:15 |
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| jacques | yeah, I had seen that in the faq for the codesourcery toolchain | 20:18 |
| jacques | I did some nbench runs with and without vfp instructions, but what I saw made me wonder if libm is built with vfp | 20:19 |
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| jacques | looks like -Os for the win | 20:20 |
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| jacques | those small caches | 20:20 |
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| lardman | jacques: Well flops certainly performs better with -O2/O3 | 20:26 |
| jacques | only the first module tho ? | 20:28 |
| jacques | am I reading it incorrectly? | 20:28 |
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| lardman | nope, my mistake | 20:30 |
| lardman | need to look at the flops.doc file and see what the weighting if for the different modules | 20:31 |
| lardman | I need to that is (out of interest) | 20:31 |
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| kulve | have anyone tried the xmaeme? I just get "not found" erros on some of the files.. | 20:35 |
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| lardman | night all, food time | 20:44 |
| SyntaxNinja | hm. if sb-menu isn't showing any CPU transparency menu, can anyone give me a hint as to what is wrong? | 20:44 |
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| SyntaxNinja | I just installed the scratchbox-devkit-cputransp package | 20:44 |
| SyntaxNinja | do I have to re-run a configure step? | 20:52 |
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| lardman | jacques: I see what you mean about libm | 20:55 |
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| lardman | I'm running some tests on my Sharp sl-c750 for comparison (pxa255) and it's produced a whetstone (O2) score of 20MIPS compared with the N800's 33.3 to 50 | 20:58 |
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| lardman | and Whetstone uses trig functions... | 20:58 |
| lardman | flops score is well down on that from the N800 (order of magnitude) as expected | 21:00 |
| soleblaze | hm.. | 21:00 |
| soleblaze | ah good there it goes..the n800 is so flkaey | 21:01 |
| lardman | soleblaze: What's the problem? | 21:04 |
| soleblaze | oh it won't start up from being off | 21:05 |
| soleblaze | just the white nokia screen | 21:05 |
| soleblaze | had to pull the battery and put it back in to get it to boot upc orrectly | 21:05 |
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| lardman | ah, installed something funny? | 21:08 |
| soleblaze | nope | 21:08 |
| lardman | or battery flat? | 21:08 |
| soleblaze | battery was low enough that it wouldn't start before I put it in the charger | 21:08 |
| konfoo | anyone here compiled mono in scratchbox? | 21:09 |
| tko | konfoo, MDK probably did | 21:10 |
| tko | http://www.mdk.org.pl/articles/2007/01/28/clone-wars | 21:10 |
| konfoo | tko: nod, curious if anyone else has :) | 21:10 |
| MDK | konfoo: it's not that hard | 21:13 |
| MDK | the process looks like this: | 21:13 |
| MDK | 1) compile whole mono inside i386 with monolite | 21:13 |
| MDK | 2) copy the sole 'mono' binary to a new mono devkit | 21:14 |
| glassss | hmm that's pretty neat | 21:14 |
| MDK | 3) copy the gthread2.0, gmodule2.0, glib2.0 (from your /usr/lib/) to /scratchbox/host/lib/) | 21:14 |
| konfoo | MDK: cool thanks. any special compile flags? | 21:15 |
| MDK | 4) create a new arm target with the mono devkit | 21:15 |
| MDK | 5) compile just the mono vm for arm (--disable-mcs-build) | 21:15 |
| MDK | now you have it all | 21:15 |
| konfoo | ;) | 21:15 |
| MDK | konfoo: nope | 21:15 |
| konfoo | excellent | 21:15 |
| konfoo | thanks | 21:15 |
| MDK | I tested sucsefully with SVN on both 770 and n800 | 21:16 |
| MDK | svn versions | 21:16 |
| tko | where's the sacrifice step? :) | 21:16 |
| MDK | tko: somewhere between 2 and 3 you have to pray a little | 21:17 |
| konfoo | heh | 21:17 |
| MDK | and you need to bootstrap gtk-sharp-2 for 2.6 | 21:17 |
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| MDK | tko: this limo thing is laughable | 21:22 |
| MDK | " The FPL is the primary software license under which the Common Code of the | 21:25 |
| MDK | Foundation Platform is licensed among members. | 21:25 |
| MDK | ..." | 21:25 |
| MDK | "There is no license granted to distribute any source code to a non-Member." | 21:25 |
| MDK | I love the introduction: | 21:27 |
| MDK | "As competition increases in the mobile phone marketplace, handsets will require more innovative software to make them attractive and unique to end users while lifetime of handsets is getting shorter every year. Consumers want devices with cool software features for productivity, music and entertainment, and sports and active lifestyles." | 21:27 |
| MDK | read -> we're scared of iphone | 21:27 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 21:31 |
| MDK | they obviously have no any clue about gpl | 21:34 |
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| jacques | lardman, yep, that's the wort of thing I saw too - the nbench modules which use trig functions did not speed up much at all when I built nbench with vfp | 21:35 |
| jacques | s/wort/sort/ | 21:35 |
| jacques | but the module/s which just did fp math without using libm sped up by at least an order of magnitude, maybe more | 21:36 |
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| lardman | jacques: Well it's good to see there's room for improvement :) | 21:45 |
| tko | MDK, I saw them covering open source licenses separately so I'd expect them to get gpl | 21:46 |
| tko | MDK, overall it just looks like an exclusive club, building proprietary stuff on top of kernel and gtk | 21:46 |
| ferulo | exclusive club like karaoke toilet? :p | 21:47 |
| MDK | tko: it looks like SCO to me | 21:47 |
| tko | they're just defining their license for proprietary stuff to have the same effect as gpl | 21:47 |
| MDK | 'same effect'? But how they can expect not to provide ie. kernel source to non-members? | 21:48 |
| tko | I didn't see them say that | 21:49 |
| tko | the fpl only covers code written by the members, for the members, and all derivative works will also have to be under fpl | 21:49 |
| tko | so for the parties who *do* get to see the code, it's roughly similar as gpl | 21:50 |
| lardman | I guess the idct in any of the video/audio decoders would use a precalculated table of cosine coefficients, so not speedup there from making libm vfp rather than softvfp | 21:52 |
| lardman | ssvb: ping | 21:54 |
| ssvb | lardman: pong | 21:55 |
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| MDK | tko: hmm... still, I don't think they can operate in a complete separation | 21:55 |
| lardman | ssvb: I was just wondering what you'd done for the n800 version of mplayer? Did you compile it for vfp, etc.? | 21:56 |
| MDK | ie. we already know that 'gtk modifications' are a pretty interesting topic | 21:56 |
| MDK | they would have to release those modifications | 21:56 |
| ssvb | lardman: well, I don't have my n800 delivered yet so I can't investigate what options work the best for it | 21:57 |
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| tko | sure, but it looked to me they're using gtk and linux only to be able to say they're using gtk and linux, everything else looked like to be proprietary "members-only" stuff | 21:58 |
| ssvb | lardman: I tried to build an experimental package with arm11 and vfp optimizations, but the feedback is a bit confusing | 21:58 |
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| suihkulokki | imho the mere idea that this semi-opensource "fpl" is a good idea is sign that the limo members just "do not get it" | 21:59 |
| ssvb | lardman: so I guess I will have to test it myself and try to identify bottlenecks | 21:59 |
| lardman | ssvb: What toolchain did you use? Does the CCS one support arm6? | 22:00 |
| ssvb | lardman: i still use maemo 2.0 sdk (mistral), the codesourcery toolchain does not refuse vfp options, so probably it should support them | 22:01 |
| ssvb | lardman: on the other hand i have already encountered numerous bugs in codesourcery toolchain :( | 22:02 |
| ssvb | ICE, incorrect code generation and unability to compile profile enabled (gprof) builds | 22:03 |
| tko | suihkulokki, well, it sort of makes sense when you try to get companies working together, having the members only gpl prevents any single one of them to own the imaginary code base | 22:03 |
| lardman | ssvb: I've found that one must specify -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp otherwise it still produces softfloat | 22:03 |
| MDK | tko: and that's exactly the flaw of it IMHO | 22:03 |
| MDK | since the companies are actually competitors | 22:03 |
| lardman | ssvb: i.e. if you only try using -mfpu=vfp | 22:03 |
| MDK | why would they even want to have 'same' codebase? | 22:03 |
| MDK | everybody in the end needs some kind of 'leverage' over the competition | 22:04 |
| tko | MDK, but no company wants to maintain whole frameworks alone | 22:04 |
| MDK | so in the end 'all members will be equall, but some will be more equal than others' | 22:04 |
| tko | unless they're monopoly | 22:04 |
| lardman | ssvb: Someone also said earlier that the toolchain can only generate arm5, so I wonder if much of a speedup could be achieved using an arm6 compiler | 22:04 |
| ssvb | lardman: thanks, I'll definitely try these options once I get my n800 device | 22:05 |
| lardman | armv5 and armv6 I ought to say | 22:05 |
| tko | to me the idea seems fairly similar to what we're trying to do, with the exception that we're working on open source instead of private club | 22:05 |
| lardman | ssvb: Cool. How are you going to get one (I read your post on itt)? | 22:06 |
| ssvb | lardman: armv6 optimized build of mplayer crashed on 770, so I guess the compiler at least inserted something armv6 specific into the code | 22:06 |
| ssvb | lardman: anyway, I also have crossdev installed in my gentoo system which can build binaries for arm as well | 22:06 |
| MDK | tko: well, right now there is absolutely nobody except us driving it | 22:07 |
| ssvb | lardman: it uses gcc 4.1.1 and at least works correctly with -pg options, so I can profile code | 22:07 |
| MDK | in terms of making strategicall decisions | 22:07 |
| tko | we got a head start :) | 22:07 |
| MDK | it's a monarchy project | 22:07 |
| MDK | consitutional-monarchy | 22:07 |
| tko | and we're pushing the limits more than other projects | 22:08 |
| zuh | uh, MDK, the bit about the monkey tag in your blog post. You did notice that it also was tagged "spank", right?-) | 22:08 |
| MDK | hah | 22:08 |
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| lardman | ssvb: Okay | 22:10 |
| * lardman reboots back into Linux | 22:14 | |
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| maddler | has anyone tried linking sh to bash instead of busybox? | 22:28 |
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| * maddler just found another 1GB SD card!!! | 22:49 | |
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| maddler | amazing what you can find in your notebook backpack! | 22:49 |
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| sbaturzio | Uh...trouble in updating http://downloads.kernelconcepts.de repository is it alive? | 23:15 |
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| JussiP | Why does my N800 insist on opening the network connection by itself? I have set the RSS reader to not autorefresh feeds. What else must I do to make it stay offline? | 23:32 |
| ferulo | JussiP: offline mode :P | 23:33 |
| Robot101 | JussiP: go to the control panel, connectivity, then set connect automatically to none | 23:34 |
| sbaturzio | or press once the power button then choose 'offline mode' | 23:34 |
| tko | what's wrong with you people. no rtfm or any other smartass remarks?-) | 23:34 |
| Robot101 | tko: there's a manual? | 23:35 |
| JussiP | Thanks. | 23:35 |
| tko | Robot101, who cares? :) | 23:35 |
| sbaturzio | tko: well...documentation is not the best side of N770/N800 ;-) | 23:36 |
| tko | I don't think it has ever stopped anyone before.. :) | 23:36 |
| JussiP | But now when I start Opera, I have to connect manually. | 23:37 |
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| sbaturzio | JussiP: sorry, but what's not clear in words "offline mode"? ;-) | 23:42 |
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| Markov | can someone please point me to the maemopad source tar.gz file? | 23:44 |
| Tak | kulve: did you get that on a known-working rom? | 23:44 |
| tko | heh, fun: http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Didarasq | 23:44 |
| tko | that's especially for ferulo, xan and MDK :) | 23:45 |
| JussiP | There's a difference between connecting to the network when _I_ choose to open the browser and tens of random programs doing it behind my back. | 23:46 |
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| ferulo | "Finnish has 155 words describing different kinds of snow, 499 words for 'cold', 863 words for 'booze'" | 23:47 |
| ferulo | tko: the thing that more scares me is that the spoken finnish in Helsinki for example is suppose to be quite different from the one in Turku... | 23:48 |
| ferulo | and so on | 23:48 |
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