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| pahartik | is there way to open URLs from shell in Maemo? (just like 'open' would on MacOS X) | 00:24 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:50 |
| Eloi | Good morning and Happy new year ^^ | 10:50 |
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| Guardian | morning all, happy new year | 11:41 |
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| jtokash2 | Has anyone done anything with mono on the 770? | 12:14 |
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| qgil | jtokash2: http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:ARM and many more references at http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=mono+nokia+770 | 12:21 |
| keesj | I really think that mono is the main reason that sun is open sourcing j2me | 12:32 |
| keesj | and the startup time is outstanding on the Nokia 770. sounds great | 12:33 |
| JussiP | Also, Classpath is getting close to 100% compliancy. | 12:33 |
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| keesj | and that would a an other reason to opensource java? | 12:36 |
| JussiP | Yes. Since there's going to be a free version of Java anyway, it's in Sun's best interest to control that area as well. | 12:38 |
| * lle has never understood how Sun makes any money from Java | 12:39 | |
| lle | I think open sourcing it means they've finally given up their false hopes of generating serious revenue from it. | 12:40 |
| lle | maybe this reflects the end of yet another hardware company's dream of converting into a software company | 12:44 |
| keesj | lle but just imagine there was no java. what hardware can sun sell | 12:45 |
| keesj | it will not run MS-webserver or whatever that is called :) | 12:45 |
| lle | Sun had a hard time selling hardware, java or not | 12:46 |
| lle | I distinctly remember how some senior exec from Sun was preaching how they'll re-invent themselves as a software powerhouse. That was in late 90's. | 12:47 |
| lle | every hw vendor goes through that at some point | 12:48 |
| lle | I'm waiting Dell to do it | 12:48 |
| lle | should be hilarious | 12:48 |
| koen | DellOS | 12:49 |
| koen | it crashes every day, but you'll get a new copy delivered via UPS | 12:49 |
| keesj | and what about that slashdot article stating that opensolaris is to become something big? http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/31/018218 | 12:49 |
| * lle doesn't hold his breath while waiting for opensolaris to take over the world | 12:50 | |
| glass_ | dell-mobileEdition | 12:50 |
| keesj | :) | 12:50 |
| koen | "What Paul Murphy, resident ZDNet Sun Fanboy, hopes will happen in IT 2007" | 12:52 |
| koen | the better title for that slashdot article | 12:52 |
| Guardian | and most people are wondering "what the hell is opensolaris" :D | 12:54 |
| suihkulokki | Sun definetly does lots of nice stuff, but their senior execs are repulsive loudmouths | 12:54 |
| koen | openslowaris | 12:54 |
| suihkulokki | and sun does understand howto react to competition | 12:56 |
| lle | suihkulokki: have to agree, the damage they took post-bubble was always going to be very bad. I honestly don't know what they could've done to significantly alter the course of history | 12:57 |
| suihkulokki | microsoft showed that .net allows creating petshop application in less and more intuitive lines than in java, (much) easier setup, and the .net petshop performed much faster than the java one | 12:58 |
| suihkulokki | and sun responded by "ow that petshop app is just a demonstration of java tech" | 12:58 |
| suihkulokki | "it's not supposed to be a benchmark" | 12:58 |
| suihkulokki | instead of actually finding out why java sucked compared to .net and fixing the issues, and coming back with a better "petshop" demo | 12:59 |
| lle | Sun has been in the corporate IT business long enough to know that in the end, it's all about perception | 13:00 |
| suihkulokki | lle: sun could have done something with cobalt.. they just killed cobalt and cobalt people formed montavista. | 13:01 |
| lle | probably true, that was a brilliant waste of about $1B | 13:01 |
| lle | didn't know montavista was started from leftovers from cobalt? are you sure you're not mixing stuff? | 13:03 |
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| lle | I think you're mixing things, monta vista has hired quite a few ex-cobalt people, but that's like way after monta vista was started | 13:05 |
| lle | and it seems it was $2B, but that was bubble-era acquisition so it doesn't have any connection to reality. | 13:09 |
| suihkulokki | yeh ok, I mixed up. I just remembered mvista seemed to have many cobalt people and made the connection wrong way | 13:12 |
| suihkulokki | lle: well, cobalt was bought with (bubble-priced) stock, so it was only investors who lost | 13:14 |
| lle | suihkulokki: that's alwas good to keep in mind ;) | 13:15 |
| lle | I've no experience of the cobalt servers, so can't say if the whole deal was just hot air, or if there truly was something behind it. Not at all surprised that it hit a stonewall at Sun's engineering department though. | 13:17 |
| suihkulokki | lle: basicly they created the first successfull linux appliance, a box you could by, attch the power and ethernet and you have file sharing and web. | 13:28 |
| suihkulokki | s/by/buy/ | 13:29 |
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| suihkulokki | sun of course got worried that people would buy rather the cheap and easy cobalt rather than one of the big and expensive sun servers | 13:30 |
| lle | hmm, a linux box in 2000? | 13:31 |
| lle | that's what, a 2.0 kernel? | 13:32 |
| suihkulokki | quite a bit ahead of time, yes | 13:32 |
| lle | yes, maybe too much :) | 13:32 |
| koen | 2000? that might be 2.4 | 13:33 |
| koen | 2.0 is ~1994 iirc | 13:33 |
| koen | the days when 2.0.30 was *new* and *shiny* | 13:34 |
| lle | right, getting these decades right gets harder and harder... :( | 13:34 |
| lle | it must've been 2.2 | 13:35 |
| lle | that came out in 99 | 13:35 |
| lle | 1994 was 1.0 | 13:35 |
| suihkulokki | linux-mips.org wiki says cobalts first shipped with 2.0.x | 13:36 |
| lle | so I guessed right ;) | 13:36 |
| lle | still, my point was that maybe, just maybe the sun engineers were onto something when they didn't immediately say "ooooh!" and jump onboard the merry linux bandwagon. | 13:37 |
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| kender | hi | 13:38 |
| lle | suihkulokki: you're saying that cobalt used mips? | 13:40 |
| suihkulokki | lle: the first ones yes, later they changed to x86 | 13:41 |
| lle | no wonder sun dropped it then. I mean, how stupid would you be if you replace your own niche cpu with an even more obscure one... ;) | 13:41 |
| suihkulokki | according some page in the internet (so it must be true) they ported linux to mips | 13:41 |
| lle | if its functionality was anything like the Linux NAS box we got in '99, it must've been crap | 13:42 |
| lle | can't be much difference since it would be based on Samba anyway. | 13:43 |
| suihkulokki | they still were 7y ahead of everyone else | 13:45 |
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| timeless | i'm confused, this isn't #opensolaris, i'm in both, could you please stop confusing me? | 14:05 |
| kender | timeless, this is #maemo | 14:11 |
| timeless | a whole bunch of the last comments were about opensolaris. btw i'm not registered, so i can't ctcp reply :) | 14:12 |
| kender | timeless, oh, I thought that you were using bitchx or iirc , those sometimes are confusing | 14:12 |
| timeless | oh, i'm using epic, and it clealy shows <lle:#maemo> Sun has been in the corporate IT business long enough to know | 14:13 |
| lle | hmm, I wonder what would then be the expected content for #maemo? | 14:15 |
| timeless | note, i'm not specifically picking on you, my scrollback ran out of good quotables | 14:16 |
| lle | you're seriously complaining about off-topicness on IRC? :P | 14:17 |
| kender | and, timeless , by the way, why that topic? | 14:18 |
| timeless | yes :) | 14:18 |
| timeless | kender: because i'm in #opensolaris and it's really strange | 14:18 |
| timeless | it /doesn't/ make sense to me for people to be talking about it here | 14:18 |
| kender | ermmm | 14:18 |
| kender | I'm not saying anything about off-topics or not | 14:19 |
| kender | I'm asking about the topic of this channel | 14:19 |
| kender | hehe | 14:19 |
| timeless | well, crashes / hangs in pdf viewer | 14:19 |
| timeless | crashes in home | 14:19 |
| kender | "shapr hugs Finland" | 14:19 |
| timeless | problems getting WLAN working or finding your WLAN password | 14:19 |
| timeless | problems w/ scratchbox | 14:19 |
| timeless | cross compiling/porting | 14:20 |
| timeless | problems w/ maemo.org | 14:20 |
| timeless | help w/ garage | 14:20 |
| kender | mm... | 14:20 |
| timeless | complaints that nseries.com sucks | 14:20 |
| lle | all about problems... so negative. | 14:20 |
| timeless | i have a very long list | 14:20 |
| kender | timeless, yes | 14:20 |
| kender | and I undertand those | 14:20 |
| kender | I'm agree with you | 14:20 |
| kender | but my question | 14:20 |
| timeless | hrm, well, if you have positive feedback, i'd rather you send it to management or something | 14:20 |
| kender | isn't that | 14:20 |
| kender | xD | 14:20 |
| timeless | so that it's archived for posterity | 14:20 |
| lle | haha ;) | 14:20 |
| timeless | irc is too temporal for that | 14:20 |
| timeless | at least let marketting use your happy satisfied customer quotes | 14:21 |
| lle | too timeless, you might say? | 14:21 |
| timeless | in one meaning, yes :) | 14:21 |
| lle | do not worry, I'll refrain from making positive comments or anything that could be understood as an endorsement concerning maemo or 770. | 14:22 |
| timeless | sorry | 14:23 |
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| timeless | i don't mean to come off as that negative | 14:23 |
| timeless | it's just that, there's nothing to fix in a good comment | 14:23 |
| timeless | i can't make good better | 14:23 |
| timeless | i'd gladly try to help w/ porting problems :) | 14:24 |
| lle | well, if it can't be improved upon, just focus on undermining its credibility | 14:24 |
| timeless | is that a sun/java/ms/.net reference? | 14:25 |
| lle | yeah, in a rather vague sense | 14:25 |
| * pahartik wonders if Canola is hardcoded to not see MPEG ADTS AAC or MPEG audio layer 2 content | 14:25 | |
| * timeless thinks canola is hard coded to cause the device to reboot in 3months | 14:25 | |
| koen | check the source | 14:28 |
| koen | oh, wait... | 14:28 |
| timeless | is it closed source? | 14:28 |
| lle | what is this Kanala thing people keep talking about? | 14:29 |
| koen | timeless: yes | 14:29 |
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| keesj | lle,something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yALbL_3XYbM | 14:42 |
| keesj | but it did not work for me | 14:42 |
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| keesj | 770 is big endian right | 18:20 |
| keesj | (question) | 18:20 |
| keesj | hmm apparently not. | 18:21 |
| koen | it can be bigendian | 18:22 |
| koen | lika any ARM core | 18:22 |
| koen | s/lika/like/ | 18:22 |
| keesj | can? I just read on a blog that it's little-endian | 18:24 |
| lle | it's configured that way | 18:25 |
| koen | arm cores are endian agnostic | 18:25 |
| koen | if you want it to be BE, make the kernel init it as BE | 18:25 |
| lle | for this particular implementation using big-endian would be sub-optimal | 18:25 |
| koen | for extra fun, use softfpa as ABI on a LE booted arm core | 18:26 |
| koen | that will make the floatingpoint word order BE | 18:26 |
| koen | ain't arm fun? | 18:26 |
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| keesj | That just sounded like some kind of rap, | 18:44 |
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| Guardian | does gtk have something builtin that enables to create widgets out of an xml description at runtime ? | 19:08 |
| tko | UIManager sort of does it, but the libglade equivalent isn't in any released version yet | 19:10 |
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| Guardian | ok | 19:19 |
| Guardian | thanks | 19:19 |
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| tko | public class Pair { public Object getThird() ... | 20:13 |
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| tko | hmm, if I'm interpreting the message from tax office correctly, they're basically saying "we made a mistake, you pay" | 20:31 |
| s-ndh-c | is there a c# binding for the hildon librarys? | 20:33 |
| s-ndh-c | i would like to testdrive mono on my 770 | 20:34 |
| s-ndh-c | if not i will stay with c instead :) | 20:34 |
| florian_kc | use c :-) | 20:42 |
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| s-ndh-c | ok | 20:49 |
| s-ndh-c | iam used to gtkmm i hope using the c api isnt that much different | 20:49 |
| s-ndh-c | is it? | 20:49 |
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| Pio | you guys have much luck with gpesyncd syncing to evolution? | 21:59 |
| koen | Pio: yes, but I last tried a year ago since gpe-calendar now supports .ics over http | 22:01 |
| Pio | hmm | 22:02 |
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| Guardian | re, in a RC file, is it possible to make bg_pixmap use a region on a bigger image file by specifying origin x,y and width,height ? | 22:38 |
| bstock | so, i saw this video of a guy using a 770 to get into cell phones via bluetooth. I know it's a vulnerability in the cell phone's bluetooth implimentation, but is it just that the phones allow unauthorized pairing or is it more then that? the video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dltjEnrePxc | 22:53 |
| qgil | bstock: interesting video, the 770 itself seems to be innocent, though | 23:03 |
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| bstock | right i agree | 23:04 |
| bstock | i was just wondering if he had to run special software to get that to work or just pair it up and do it... i don't know how some of the other cell phones work | 23:05 |
| X-Fade | bstock: Typical bluesnarfing? You can use any pc with bt for that? | 23:06 |
| qgil | bstock: I'm not the bluetooth expert but it seems that pairing is just enough - the "privacy" is based on proximity | 23:06 |
| X-Fade | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluesnarfing | 23:07 |
| bstock | huh.. i'd be surprised if they would allow pairing without authentication. i know current phones do | 23:07 |
| bstock | wikipedia says 'Any device with its Bluetooth connection turned on and set to "discoverable" (able to be found by other Bluetooth devices in range) can be attacked' | 23:08 |
| bstock | that really sucks, must be a vulnerability in the bluetooth RFC or something..? | 23:08 |
| s-ndh-c | bstock: why? | 23:11 |
| bstock | why what? | 23:11 |
| s-ndh-c | dont use bluetooth untrusted locations, its as easy as that | 23:11 |
| s-ndh-c | or better dont use it ever | 23:11 |
| s-ndh-c | :) | 23:11 |
| bstock | right i don't.. | 23:11 |
| bstock | well i use bluetooth to pair to my 770 as well as bluetooth headset | 23:11 |
| s-ndh-c | yeah i see | 23:12 |
| bstock | but on my razr, i have to enable discoverable mode manually and it only lasts 60 seconds, so i'm not worried about getting attacked or anything | 23:12 |
| bstock | it just sucks that bluetooth has those problems | 23:13 |
| * pahartik uses Bluetooth everywhere | 23:13 | |
| * s-ndh-c doesnt even have a single bluetooth device besides my n770 | 23:18 | |
| * pahartik would not know how to use Nokia 770, or what to use Nokia 770 for, without Bluetooth | 23:21 | |
| suihkulokki | pft, that wikipedia article is hysterical and uninformative | 23:21 |
| bstock | yes well it's not exactly a hacking guide or anything.. | 23:22 |
| bstock | just general info about the subject | 23:22 |
| Pio | so if i see a package that wants some scirocco libs, but i have mistral, if i add scirocco repos in my sources.list, it will pull in the scirocco packages that it needs and keep my other mistral stuff intact right? | 23:23 |
| suihkulokki | bstock: nobody is claiming that tcp/ip is insecure because there are tcp/ip servers with security issues | 23:23 |
| rabelais | agreed, just because the implementation by most stacks is buggy doesn't make the protocol itself flawed... | 23:25 |
| bstock | yes but the bt problem seems to be an issue with the bt protocal.. i think, not the implimentation of bt | 23:25 |
| bstock | i don't know much on the subject | 23:25 |
| bstock | it just looked like the protocal had security flaws | 23:25 |
| bstock | is that not true? | 23:25 |
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| suihkulokki | some specific bluetooth _services_ have security issues | 23:27 |
| bstock | hmm alright | 23:28 |
| bstock | so only certain phones have issues, not all phones that are discoverable by default? | 23:28 |
| suihkulokki | certain phones have issues | 23:29 |
| bstock | alright, then the wikipedia article is inaccurate | 23:30 |
| suihkulokki | for example 770 does not have any listening bluetooth services, so there is notthing to attack | 23:33 |
| suihkulokki | from the vague descriptions of bluesnarfing I could find, it seems that basicly many phones allow accessing virtual serial port service from any client when set to discoverable | 23:34 |
| glass_ | snarfing on media is usually media hungry moviestyle misinformation shit | 23:35 |
| glass_ | blue- | 23:35 |
| suihkulokki | generally allowing anyone to access when discoverable should only be allowed for services such as OBEX push, where a dialog is presented to user to accept/decline | 23:36 |
| suihkulokki | although many people will just hit accept to whatever dialog they see.. | 23:37 |
| suihkulokki | but you don't want to pair with someone just to exchange vcards | 23:37 |
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| lle | suihkulokki: depends how she looks | 23:44 |
| rabelais | oh, I have a question about the telepathy connection managers, when telepathy-sip is released, will it just be dropped into the framework and now the 770 will have SIP support? | 23:51 |
| rabelais | or will we also need some kind of frontend as well? | 23:51 |
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