IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2006-12-13

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myren$25001:36
myrenman i'm tempted to get a 77001:36
myrencompusa in store picup01:36
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* rev loves his 77001:50
* tigert uses his 770 a lot01:51
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* rev does too01:58
revit's especially great for programming in smalltalk, reading ebooks, reading PDFs and browsing the web01:59
revbest handheld PDF reader I've ever used01:59
revi'm actually reading all my radical newspapers in PDF now and not waiting for them to come in the mail!01:59
glasswhats the best .txt viewer app?02:03
glassfor book like material02:03
myreni'm just scared the next iteration is going to show up in a month or something02:29
myrenhaving gps would be mad useful to me02:29
myrenand who knows what else will be in there02:29
myrenbut damn do i want a nice mobile platform to program for02:31
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shaprmyren: I'm going to give my 770 to my girlfriend and buy the new one for myself :-)02:45
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myren:)02:46
revglass: use FBReader02:47
myrenflorian: whats #oe?  opportunistic encryption?02:47
revglass: at least, it's the only ebook reader for the 770 that i know... but i like it. itdoesn't have all the features i wish it did that i have on the ebook reader i use on WinCE (?Book) but it is good02:47
florianmyren: OpenEmbedded02:48
glassokays02:48
myrencoolies, thanks.02:48
glassi've read tons of books from series60 phone screens, 770 can't be worse :)02:48
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Merculishello all03:42
Merculis:-)03:42
Merculisis there a tutorial on basic 770 usage?  for example, installing applications or the use of the application manager in OS 2006 (2.0)?03:43
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Merculisalso, is SSH installed by default, or must it be added?03:44
adoyleMerculis - you may want to start here: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog200603:53
adoylessh must be added. it's on that page. You will need Osso Xterm first.03:53
adoylesee http://maemo-hackers.org/wiki/OssoXterm for a slightly different view of loading stuff03:54
MerculisI looked at that and was interested in installing gaim.  I am actually trying to help my friend out and I don't have a 770.  Anytime he goes to install an application via .deb file, it is saying that it is not compatible with the OS.03:54
adoyleI'm no expert on that, by far. I have flashed the latest (ca. November) version of the OS. Most things seem to work then.03:55
adoyleHe can find that here - http://www.maemo.org/downloads/nokia_770.php03:56
MerculisI saw that in the application manager, you needed to add URLs to the list of repositories that it searches for new 3rd party apps.03:56
Merculissort of like apt or yum03:57
adoyleYes, you can do that. It's in the menu of the application manager03:57
adoyleIf you have xterm, etc., you can become root and do the debian installs via apt and dpkg03:57
Merculisahh03:57
Merculiswell03:57
adoyleIt depends on how much of a Linux geek your friend is03:57
Merculiswhat I am trying to do is have him install ssh so that I can vnc into his computer and then do everything via ssh on his pc03:58
MerculisI will prolly put the maemo in dmz and then ssh from my house03:58
Merculis:-P03:58
adoylewhoo. It's doable. But a bit of a tall order to talk someone through03:58
Merculisyeah03:58
Merculishence why I am trying to start with getting gaim or ssh installed03:59
adoyleMight be faster to get your hands on it and get it set up03:59
MerculisI am in DC he is in Miami03:59
Merculis:-P03:59
Merculishehe03:59
adoyleUPS... might be cheaper than the aggravation!03:59
adoylegotta run, good luck!04:00
Merculisthanks04:00
Merculis"1) Click on the title bar of the application manager, then tools, the application catalog and then key in each url"04:01
Merculisanyone have a screenshot of that screen?04:02
Merculisso I can walk my idiot friend through it?04:02
Merculisor at least be able to tell me...field by field how to input a line in this format?04:03
Merculisdeb http://repository.maemo.org/contrib mistral free non-free04:03
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adoyleI'm back for a bit... it's pretty clear where they go once you're in. You hit "new" and the fields are pre-populated. http://, mistral, main. Just substitute the new ones04:11
adoyleclick ok, and it refreshes the package list04:11
adoyleIf you screwed up, it hits an error. You can go back in and edit the entry.04:13
Merculisahhh04:14
Merculisk04:14
adoyleAlso, if you just browse to a .deb with the browser and click it, it will offer to install it or save it.04:19
adoyleFor simple things, that's easier. For xterm, the application catalog way is easier because it pulls in a bunch of other stuff04:20
adoyleOnce xterm is in, the dropbear .deb on this page - http://www.komputika.net/maemo/ will be easier to install than ssh, I think. ssh is a little more robust but I think it took more work to get it installed04:21
Merculiswhat if it says that an application is incompatible from the urls04:21
adoyleThat's where I'm not sure. I think it's key to have the latest OS. Even new 770's don't have the November update04:22
Merculis "Unable to install. Package is incompatable with current software."04:22
adoyleyes, I've seen that. Either the OS is too old, or the package is too old.04:28
Merculishmm04:29
adoyleThe 770 is a great system for hacking on but it sure helps to have it in your possession04:30
Merculisobviously04:31
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Merculisso to start dropbear....05:04
Merculisis /etc/init.d/dropbear start   ?05:04
adoyleIt seems to start automatically when you open an xterm05:04
adoyleor just run 'dropbear' as root05:04
Merculisgotcha05:05
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qgilping10:24
qgilnow10:24
qgilhi, urgent call from a next OSSO team member10:24
qgildo you have any opinion about this area in Helsinki:10:25
qgilhttp://maps.google.com/?q=Helsinki,+Finland&ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=60.221902,24.841837&spn=0.002552,0.01354&t=h&om=110:25
qgilwe have found a house to rent and it looks good10:25
qgilI only want to know a bit about impressions of the area - if locals think that phantoms wonder at night because there was an ancient cemetery, those kinds of things :)10:26
suihkulokkithat's good (and expensive) area10:26
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qgilthanks suihkulokki, the price of the rent/m2 is not bad compared to other houses visited around Espoo etc10:32
qgili have also asked at http://www.finlandforum.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=17161410:33
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Fatalthat map is broken10:36
Fatalit's not coverd in snow and i can't see any polarbears10:36
sxpertFatal, rotfl10:40
sxperthow about this one ? http://labs.metacarta.com/osm/?lat=8937068.34442&lon=2817187.09395&zoom=4&layers=B0010:40
qgilthanks Fatal, your help is indeed appreciated  :)10:44
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bergieqgil: not so bad, a bit of suburbia10:55
Anidelgood "GMT+1"-morning to everyone!10:55
bergieqgil: about 15 minutes to center of Helsinki via train10:55
qgilthnaks bergie, we are 4 people and this is why we need something a bit bigger (also my wife woirks from home) - this is why we need to choose between a bit of helsinki suburbia or go more far to Espoo etc10:57
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bergieqgil: this is definitely more convenient than Espoo because of the train... public transportation in Espoo sucks10:57
JaffaMorning, all10:58
bergieqgil: though you would have a shorter commute to Ruoholahti from south Espoo10:58
qgilnp, if this saves time to wife + 2 kids going to the center that's ok11:00
suihkulokkiqgil: it's 15min to center, but osso is in ruoholahti. also mäkkylä train station is in espoo billing area so the train ticket price is same as from anywhere in espoo11:01
qgili can deal with those extra 10 minutes - and I very much prefer wife happier because it's near the center  :)11:02
qgilshe's a city woman, you know11:02
suihkulokkiotoh you can save money and get some excersize and take a bike to ruoholahti11:03
roopeMäkkylä is a nice place.11:14
roopeThere are nice parks around there.11:14
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Anidelguys, yesterday I was looking for a place where to hack to let the Nokia 770 install apps on the MMC rather than the internal flash memory. By asking the user where to install the app.11:20
Anidellooking around I have found this link that might help with this matter:11:20
Anidelhttp://hczim.de/software/mmc-unionfs.html11:20
Anidelanyone tried/knows this method ?11:20
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JaffaAnidel: I used it on 2005 OS, but there are apparently problems for 2006 OS and hcz's only released a few limited beta copies.11:33
* Jaffa has ended up using a bind mount over the top of /home/user11:33
AD-N770good morning11:33
tigertmorning11:45
tigertqgil: howdy11:46
sxpert-worktigert: morning11:46
sxpert-worktigert: you know anything about sqlite3 ?11:47
tigertnot much?11:47
qgilhi tigert, welllanded back home and entering the Move Phase  :)11:59
tigert:)12:00
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AnidelJaffa: yep I was reading about that, right now.. I'll take a better look at it and see if I can make it work somehow on the OS 2006 -212:10
AnidelJaffa: what's a "bind" mount ?12:10
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Anideljaffa: just read the man.. well it's not the same thing...12:12
veliAnidel: 'man mount' and search 'bind'12:15
Anidelveli: just did it12:17
Anidelveli: see my last message... and that is not really what I am aimed at...12:17
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florian_kc hi all12:49
keesjhi13:14
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keesjhmm my first spam on cosy@xxxx.dds.nl15:09
keesjand maemoruby@xxxx.dds.nl bots are on the wiki L(15:09
keesjand it's about cheap nokia's15:14
jtrakeesj: now you can expect a lot of spam since the address will be available to email harvesters in channel logs on web15:18
keesjxxx must be replaced with something else15:19
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jtraah, ok then, I just checked that xxxx.dds.nl has MX record but it apparently resolves for whole *.dds.nl15:24
keesjyes  you get your domain username.dds.nl and you can have whatever you like before the at sign15:25
keesjthat's why I know where the spam comes from15:25
keesjso I hope there is no user named xxxx :)15:26
TakI hope there is!  take that!15:26
keesj:)15:32
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timelessping16:36
Merculispong16:36
timelesshow do i find a list of the 100 most recently added projects16:36
Merculismeditate16:37
timeless(Garage)16:37
Takhah16:37
X-Fadegarage Statistics16:37
X-FadeHosted Projects: 10616:37
X-FadeAll of them :)16:37
X-FadeWell minus 6..16:38
timelessi only have 93 of them16:38
Takminus the six with the top downloads ;-)16:38
timelessi'm missing some of the last 2516:38
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timelessok16:45
timelesshow do i get a list of all 10616:45
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minraremoo16:46
minrathe maemo docs look great.  the i386 dev environment also16:46
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minrashould i start with mistral or sirocco?16:47
Takon the device? or as far as scratchbox?16:48
minrawell i would upgrade the device16:48
* timeless pokes tak16:48
minrajust kind of scared to ruin my working config16:48
* Tak jumps16:48
* Tak shrugs16:49
minraso i think i better get the mmc booting working so i can keep the rootfs on the flash16:49
minrayeah i know... hey i bet that fceu sound can be worked out16:49
minraregardless of frameskip i hear blips when the screen updates16:49
minrabtw i also hear blips when the nokia sound plays when i shutdown16:49
Takyeah, the sound plays great when you stop updating the screen ;-)16:50
minraare you in contact with the fceu devs?16:50
Takwell16:50
Takthe problem is that there really are no fceu devs currently16:50
minramaybe they could provide pointers16:50
minraah16:50
Takexcept all the different maintainers of all the different forks like this one16:50
Taktimeless: did you want something, btw?16:51
timelessyes16:51
timelessa list of all the projects i missed that have sources in garage16:51
minraah.  is the audio engine sourced from someone else?  often there is an unrelated author to the project who provided the dsp/fm code16:51
timelesshttp://swift/world-all/source/garage16:51
TakI have no idea how to get a list of all the garage projects16:52
minrais there a particular UMTS bluetooth cellphone to recommend for the 770?  i cant keep using this bar for internet... they are getting sick of me16:54
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Anidelhallo16:54
minrahuhu16:54
Tak"The 'RecipeViewer' application facilitates the process of transferring photos from your cameraphone to your Nokia 770..."16:54
Takworst name ever16:54
Anidel:)16:55
Takunless 'recipe' means photo in some language16:55
Anidelnot in italian16:55
jtraminra: heh, I solved the internet access with this: http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/tmp/n770-evdo.jpg so I have up to 700Kbits dl, almost everywhere in my country16:56
minraTY i check...16:57
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Anidelthat hack to the USB jack is to bring 5v back to the Nokia right ?16:59
minraWow  wat is the blue  device...16:59
minraHmm the only celular flatrates i find in germany are umts the anydata modems are cdma17:03
Anidelyep EVDO is a CDMA technology17:04
Anidelin Europe there's no such a thing.. but there is HSCPDA or something similar :D17:04
jtraAnidel: yes17:04
AnidelHSDPA17:04
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Anidelthat's an UMTS (WCDMA) enhancement ...17:05
jtraAnidel: I'm in europe, yet CDMA is here17:05
minraYou wrote a kernel module for that¿17:05
Anidelin Italy it can go up to 3.6Mbit (with TIM) or 1.8Mbit (TIM and Three at least are offering it)17:06
AnidelCDMA in europe ?17:06
sxpert-workno, HDSPA17:07
koenumts and wcdma are like ethernet and csma/cd17:07
Anidelyes17:07
jtraAnidel: but for data only, for voice there is GSM (900MHz, 1.8GHz) and UMTS (in cities only)17:07
minraI see you wrote a kernel patch  nice17:07
sxpert-workEVDO is like "only works for verizon"17:08
Anideljtra: no.. UMTS is for voice and data17:08
sxpert-workAnidel: UMTS is a flop17:08
Veggenbecause of the pricing? Priced reasonable, I guess people would seriously consider it?17:09
sxpert-workway too expensive for what it does17:09
jtrawell, I wrote patch, but it is not necessary, just simple usbserial or pl2303 driver with right USB IDs will work17:09
Anidelwell I'm using Three here in Italy .. and let me state it, i am quite happy now.. 9? a month and I got 50Mb a day.. for the nokia is enough17:09
suihkulokkisxpert-work: price depends on your locale...17:09
sxpert-workVeggen: like, orange fr has a 70 € a month contract on which they block ssh... wth17:10
jtraAnidel: yes it is, but what I wanted to say is that CDMA is used here only for data17:10
sxpert-workI have much more luck finding open wifi spots :D17:11
sxpert-workor cracking closed ones :D17:11
jtrawe have also GPRS and GRPS with EDGE available, but latency si very high 1 second and multiplies of that if packet gets lost; a nd that suck when you want to use remote terminal17:12
minraHere aps are limited to 100mw so range sux17:12
Anideljtra: here in the US ?17:12
sxpert-workminra: just get a better antenna on your side :D17:12
jtrahere in the Czech Repubulic (Europe)17:12
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Anidelwell, again.. with Three I have a prepaid card for calling ( I get credit for every incoming SMS I get :) ) and for connecting (9? a month/50Mb a day) and there's no limitation17:13
Anideland it's quite fast17:13
minraver nice deal anidel17:13
Anidelyeah I am lucky indeed17:13
Anidelit was 9? for 5Mb a day.. they changed it since Dec 1st17:14
Anidel50Mb a day it's a lot.. as I have connection at univ every day and DSL at my parent's house and unlimited plan (GPRS) at home.. so .. on the move 50Mb is really enough17:14
Veggenbelieve it or not, but I look forward to porn on the cell phone being popular. It tends to drive bandwidth ;-)17:15
Anidelveggen: sadly but that's true17:15
sxpert-workVeggen: heh.17:16
inzShould make "free" cell phone porn services and invest in telcos with good gprs/whatever services17:16
Anidelso :) now that Three made me this gift, I can say that I am very happy with it.. it has proven useful in many situation (on the move)...17:17
Anidelit = being the nokia 77017:18
VeggenAnidel: going by train to Italy from Antibes (close to Nice), it did once help me find a train connection that the guy I was trying to book my ticket from didn't believe in. "No. It doesn't exist". Sure it does - look here, Italian train service on the web confirms it, and a local train from here will bring me to the border well in time"17:20
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VeggenI also used maemo mapper a lot, even without GPS it's very useful. (I had a gps, but only having instant access to city maps from google is useful)17:22
konttoritigert: I've now built a theme maker with support for the Nokia theme images / layout files17:25
Anidelveggen :()17:25
Anidel:)17:25
tigert!!!17:25
tigertkonttori: awesome!17:25
konttoriyeah. Wasn't quite as simple as I hoped.17:25
tigertkonttori: okay17:25
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tigertdid you reach michael for the gtkrc bundle thing?17:25
konttoriMy source file was so small that I afforded creating additional buffered versions of the full image every now and then based. Your 8000x image was so big that java ran out of heap too easily. Well, now it's faster and doesn't consume that much mem17:26
konttorinope17:26
X-Fadekonttori: Did you try to package tigert's theme?17:26
sxpert-workVeggen: hahaha17:26
konttoriYeah17:26
sxpert-worknice one :D17:26
konttoriWell, I don't have 770, so no go for testing that one out though17:26
konttorishould work though17:26
X-FadeCan you put it up somewhere? I can test it for you.17:27
konttorihmm... ok. with tigerts permission that is17:27
tigertkonttori: we need to get those to you too. so did you end up trying to mesh the gtkrc's together?17:27
tigertsince we need to make them ready for you17:28
tigertso you don't need to17:28
tigertor what was the hard part?17:28
konttorihmm... I didn't try that one yet. I just read the layout file and at the moment only cut the images based on that. I'll make it to get the colors17:28
konttorithe hard part was getting around javas mem limitation17:28
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konttoriI think it has like 64 megs of heap by default or something like that.17:29
tigertah right17:29
tigertsince the template is rather.. um.. big17:29
konttoriyeah17:29
tigert:)17:29
tigertMaemo de Hutt17:30
konttoriSo, it takes like 25 Megs all by itself17:30
tigertyeah17:30
tigertit is big17:30
konttoriANd it needs to be also in a bufferedimage format (both must exist at the same time for a short while).17:30
konttorithus 50 megs mem consumption for a while17:31
tigertwe also want to try if the theme tools could run in the device itself17:31
tigertthat'd be kinda neat17:31
tigertbut slow too :)17:31
konttoritigert: Neat... yeah, but doesn't make sense really17:31
tigertwell, it kinda does17:31
tigertbut yea17:31
tigertnot :)17:31
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konttorihttp://www.helsinki.fi/~konttori/MediaConverter/Plankton.deb17:33
konttoriNo idea if it works or not.17:33
konttoriAnd colors and fonts are not official17:33
konttoribut hey, try it out and see it it works at all17:34
tigertlemme try17:34
tigertbooting the other 770, the poor thing was out of battery17:35
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sxpert-worktigert: the next one needs a larger battery :D17:35
tigertno battery lasts 2 weeks in backback17:35
tigert:)17:35
tigertkonttori: so did you do -3 or -2?17:36
konttori-317:36
konttori... I think17:36
tigert-3 is sardine-layout so it is a bit broken on the 77017:36
tigertbut it should still mostly work17:36
konttoriAhh17:36
konttoriBut I only used the image crop file17:36
tigertbut the statusbar (top bar) is a bit different size in sardine17:36
konttoriso, it doesn't use that gtkrc17:36
tigertand also the control panel is styled differently,17:36
konttoriahh... damn17:36
tigertbut the problem of course is,17:37
tigertI havent done a -2 theme yet17:37
tigertbut I will try to push this done soon17:37
X-FadeWell, it kind of works ;)17:37
tigertX-Fade: cool17:37
tigertX-Fade: controlpanel will look crazy17:37
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tigertand there's going to be 2 slices of missing images on the left panel17:37
tigertbut otherwise it should be quite working17:37
X-FadeI'll try it out on my herring too.17:37
tigertkonttori: so does the app now let you choose a layout.txt and a template?17:38
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tigertX-Fade: it should wrok on herring17:38
tigertlet me know how it goes17:38
tigertactually17:38
tigertherring should have it even17:38
tigertsince I think MDK added it there17:38
tigertbut basically, get the -2 template and start sketching17:38
tigertthe thing works perfectly in scratchbox now already17:38
tigertand the thememaker is complementing that wonderfully17:39
Guardianre, how to setup sbrsh with herring ? should i follow scratchbox.org's doc ?17:39
X-FadeBooting herring now. Will try it there.17:39
tigertGuardian: unfortunately I have no idea17:39
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konttorihttp://www.helsinki.fi/~konttori/MediaConverter/ThemeMakerBETA.zip17:40
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konttoriYou can just copy -2 layout file in place of the current one17:41
X-Fadetigert: Ah, nice alpja shading in the menu over the desktop :)17:41
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X-Fade*alpha17:41
Jaffakonttori: java -Xmx128m would be handy17:41
X-FadeThe 'active programs' button is still weird looking.17:42
X-FadeThe image repeats in the vertical direction.17:42
JaffaX-Fade: take a screenshot of plankton?17:42
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tigertX-Fade: yea17:42
X-FadeJaffa: herring doesn't let me install taskbar plugins..17:43
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X-FadeIt keeps restoring the taskbar on each boot..17:43
tigerttry maemo-screenshot-tool?17:43
X-FadeAlready filed a bug on that. But no reaction yet.17:43
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tigertwasnt there this commandline thingy?17:43
X-FadeYeah, I will try via ssh..17:44
inzHas osso-screenshot-tool been renamed?17:44
X-FadeHmm the sidebar isn't replaced with this Plankton.deb17:44
tigertX-Fade: try rebooting?17:45
tigertsometimes it doesnt quite seem to switch everything17:45
tigertinz: no17:45
tigertinz: just my bad memory17:45
inzoki =)17:45
X-Fadetigert: I already did..17:45
tigertX-Fade: ok. weird.17:45
tigertdamn17:46
tigertI wish there was more time17:46
tigertI want to finish this theme17:46
X-FadeHmm why does the shade of the taskbar drop left and right? What kind of light is that ;)17:46
tigertand it doesnt help that I keep changing the style :)17:46
X-Fadeehm shadow :)17:46
tigertwhat do you mean? it could be that thememaker has a bug! :)17:46
tigertits "light from above" light I guess17:47
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X-Fadehttp://breet.com/maemo/Plankton-desktop.png17:51
X-FadeSee my messed up desktop :)17:51
X-FadeJust a little bit of Plankton, but a lot of the original theme..17:52
konttorijaffa: yeah, but better to get the soft to run on defaults so that I don't have to tell everybody to increase heap.17:53
Anidelvery nice indeed17:53
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konttoriI think the cut locations or the gtk rc are not 100% compatible with each other17:54
konttoriI'm off to get some pizza. maybe talk about this later today or maybe tomorrow17:55
X-Fadekonttori: Thanks anyway :)17:55
Anidelenojoy the pizza17:55
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tigertkonttori: I try to kick mdk to do the bundles stuff17:59
tigertkonttori: and myself to actually finish this theme for the -2 layout17:59
tigertso we can have something that works completely17:59
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X-Fadetigert: but I do like the theme! (When looking at the template) :)18:00
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* konttori is back18:26
konttoriso, should -2 have proper working layout? (in the cut file)?18:27
konttoriShould I move to -2 for gtkrc as well?18:28
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konttoritigert: Yeah, I really need to have a compilation gtkrc if it's possible / if such exists.19:05
jtracan I do something about this: battery runs very low so I switched n770 off, put on the cover and put it into the bag; while putting in the bag I inadvertently pressed the power button - the n770 booted in the bag with the cover on (which was evident from boot-up melody)19:06
jtraI would like to prevent booting when cover is put on19:06
Takwow - I thought the buttons were unresponsive when the cover was on19:07
minrasounds like a hardwre - firmwa1re prob19:07
jtraI thought it too19:09
JaffaI think not if R&D mode is enabled.19:09
roopeit cannot detect which way the cover is on.19:09
roopeyou do want to boot if the cover is like ... the other way round on.19:09
jtraI have R&D enabled19:10
Jaffaroope: of course it can: otherwise the screen would go off when the cover was slotted on the back!19:10
jtraand version is 2.2006.39-1419:10
roopeOh, yeah, you're right.19:10
roopeBut it ... it's off then. :)19:10
roopeIt cannot know not to turn itself on if it's off. :)19:10
roopeThe power button is probably really really stupid.19:11
jtrathe screen just get lit for a second and then it is off again while n770 is booting - so it can be detected19:11
inzjtra, having R&D off requires the power key to be held down, so that'd at least make accidental powerup less probable19:11
roopewouldn't it need to be partly on in order to have some logic to know not to turn itself on?19:12
roope(which makes no sense, i know)19:12
Takroope: that's a good point19:12
inzroope, same kind of logic as what it takes to require the power key to be held down19:12
Taklike those annoying dvd players that have an LED on when they're turned off19:12
jtraroope: but it could switch off quickly then19:13
Takthe cover-on thing is at least partially mechanical, though19:13
roopeIt could certainly.19:13
roopeAnd it's... afaik there are various states of deep sleep. even off isn't really off.19:13
roopeWith the alarms and all that...19:14
Takbtw, is there any kind of "hibernate" mode?  where it dumps the system state to mmc and powers off?19:14
roopebut i'm not a technical person, so better me to be silent about this. :)19:14
minra770 detects difference between front and back slotting19:15
sxpertminra, hmm ?19:16
sxpertthere's a magnet in the cover, and a hall effect sensor next to the hardware keys...19:16
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revi was wondering hw it did that!19:18
revat the same time, i wish hitting the power button just turned it off lik that too19:18
revesp because i like to leave it open when i go to bed, so the alarm is loudest19:18
revso i just have to let it time out19:18
revnot that those 5 minutes of power is some huge drain19:18
revand as someone who has had like 16 different PDAs before the 770, it was decidedly confusing UI19:19
Takan option in the menu that pops up when you hit the power button would be nice19:19
revyeah19:19
revi'd rather have it where hitting the power stud turned it off19:19
revbut holding it down brought up the options19:19
revturned it off = hibernate19:19
Takit's in a place where it gets hit accidentally, though19:20
revwhen i first got it i did a lot of experimenting to determine when it's off, when the screen is just blanked, etc19:20
TakI hit mine by accident all th etime19:20
revyeah, but big deal19:20
revi mean19:20
revwho care if you bump it and it hibernates19:20
TakI do, it'd be a huge pita19:20
revyou just turn it back on... like every other PDA which has done fine with that model.19:20
* rev shrugs19:20
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Taknot so much if it's in my pocket or whatever, but if I'm using it19:20
revthe sliding case doesn't bug me now that i know the parameters of it19:20
revbut i still wish i could just turn it off when i'm going to bed19:21
inzrev, you can turn the device off, alarm will sound anyway19:21
revinstead of having it shine onto the ceiling for 5 minutes with my wife saying "turn that off!" while is stall and then it does. heh.19:21
revinz: really?19:21
inzrev, works for me at least =)19:21
revinz: is it accurate? i mean, does it boot a few minutes ahead of time?19:21
revinz: you mean it works from a completely cold start? when you've actually powered off?19:21
Takrev: put it face down? ;-)19:22
inzrev, the rtc chip can powerup the device, so you can completely power off19:22
inzrev, dunno of accuracy though, haven't really tried19:22
revthe new 870 or whatever doesn't have a metal cover, so it seems they'll pick some solution to this19:22
revTak: yeah, i do that too19:22
revbut19:22
revi don't like to, the alarm isn't as loud that way19:22
revi use it for a morning alarm19:22
* Tak nods19:22
Takthat might be a good applet, actually19:23
TakScreenOff19:23
revit's weird, because i hear the relatively quiet TOne 1 or whatever for an alarm, but my wife's loud blaring alarm doesn't bug me at all19:23
* Tak pulls up applet howto19:23
revi don't even notice hers19:23
* rev is trying to figure out how to give any old X11 app an icon on the sidebar so i can switch back and forth to it19:23
inzrev, you can try the accuracy, set an alarm for +5 mins (>2 at least) and check the time when the device wakes up19:24
revright now it's a huge pita, i have to kill it if it gets somewhere in the background that i can't get to it19:24
revinz: yeah, i'll give that a whack19:24
inzrev, if the alarm is within 2 or so minutes, it will no really power down19:24
inz+t19:24
jtrarev: define WMCLASS stuff?19:24
jtrarev: window manager uses this to find the app to switch back to it19:25
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revjtra: which means modifying the source of the app, not something i can do within the maemo env, yes?19:26
revinz:ah, that's interesting19:26
jtrarev: in case of SDL apps it is possible via environment19:27
jtrarev: it is described here: http://www.maemo.org/maemowiki/GameDevelopment  search for SDL_VIDEO_X11_WMCLASS19:28
* jtra is gone19:28
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revhrmm... would it be special for SDL apps, or any ol X app work too?19:31
revme looks there19:31
revi guess i could just do the work to maemomize it, but i don't usually do C19:32
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revbut at least now i have an x86 mac, i can finally put x86 linux on it, which is needed for the 770's x-dev tools19:32
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minrai am just starting but themaemo docs and oncept  seem very clear19:37
Takminra: are you planning to hack on any of the xmame projects?19:38
minrayes19:39
TakRequest to join on the garage, and I'll add you19:39
minraineed to scam internet athome first19:39
TakI could probably switch over to the public svn too, I suppose ;-)19:39
minrai cant workin bars oron the street19:40
minrai need time19:41
minrawhen i do a top - i also see maemo-launcher taking up non-trivial cpu19:45
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minrathere may be a chance to disable some cpu intensive things in audio... filtters .. envelopes19:49
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minrabattery gone on bt kbd...typing with pen... ack19:50
Takdon't forget about the thumbboard ;-)19:50
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minrait is not a computer wo kbd20:09
minrawell  gotta run20:09
Takseeya20:09
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ferencevening21:16
florian_kchi ferenc21:17
ferenchello florian21:18
ferenci just sent out an update on midgard migration:21:19
ferenchttps://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo2midgard-discussion/2006-December/000042.html21:19
ferencif you are interested in the new site please take some time and read the mail.21:20
ferencwe are looking for help in testing the new app catalog.21:20
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* florian_kc takes a look later, need to get food first21:21
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* timelyx needs to bug ferenc sometime21:25
tkoferenc, would it be possible to have on the front page a simple site map describing which parts of the site are supposedly final / under testing / placeholders -- it would help at least me to figure out which links are worth following21:27
tkohmm.. top 6 books in librarything are all harry potter. I wonder if that tells more about harry potter / rowling, or librarything users...21:32
ferenctko: good idea about the site map. but the content that will be available first for public editing is under Applications and partially under Documents21:35
X-FadeHmm try to login :) That midgard menu isn't the same style as the rest of the website yet?21:35
ferencfor the app catalog i have to complete the user manual: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?UsingTheApplicationCatalog&id=106&type=g21:36
ferencfor Doc authoring we have to write a brand new user manual.21:36
ferencX-Fade: correct21:36
X-Fadeferenc: Don't know if that is supposed to be themed at all?21:37
ferencX-Fade: well, we have now a basic authentication window when you click login. did you get the "standard" Midgard CMS login screen?21:38
tkoferenc, allrighty21:38
X-Fadeyeah.21:38
ferencX-Fade: oops. can you paste the link?21:38
tkow00t, where's the tag cloud? =)21:38
X-Fadeferenc: Next to search? :)21:38
X-FadeAt the top of the page?21:39
ferencX-Fade: http://test.maemo.org/midcom-login- , right? it is the same for you as well.21:39
X-Fadehttp://test.maemo.org/midcom-login- yep21:40
ferenctko: would it really make sense? we don't have sub categories in the app catalog.21:40
ferencX-Fade: strange. for me there the HTTP auth window pops up.21:40
X-FadeHmm it now automagically logs me in with my cookie..21:40
ferencahh! yes. that could be the reason.21:40
ferencwhat if you remove the cookie?21:40
X-Fadelet me try that out :)21:41
tkoshouldn't there be tags for apps, then?21:41
tkoI mean, hierarchical is so old :)21:42
ferenctko: yes, that's a great idea. carlos mentioned it earlier.21:42
X-Fadeferenc: hmm it still logs me in automatically. I cleared all cookies for test.maemo.org21:42
ferenci want tags, but we have no field for that yet in the DB21:42
tkoanother thing I'd like is to have a (small) screenshot of the app in the flat list21:42
mgedminscreenshots are good21:43
tkonow one needs *gasp* read through the application list :)21:43
tkoscanning through for screenshots would be nicer (I'd probably just skip all apps not having one)21:43
ferencdo you think it would help? what if there is no screenshot available?21:43
X-Fadetko: I for one really hate tag clouds. ;)21:43
ferenci know with styles you can hide things..21:43
X-FadeTrying to find a category in a bunch of randomly organised words sucks.21:44
ferenctko: interesting point of view about screenshots.21:44
tkowe should encourage (read: make it really simple) having screenshots21:44
ferencX-Fade: especially if you have 10 flat categories and no sub cats.21:44
ferenctko: what if we do it a little later, not for the launch?21:45
X-Fadeferenc: Wow, the site looks broken in IE. Looks like I have to fix that too :)21:45
ferenctko: we'd like to complete testing (functional/regression) and kick off the new maemo.org soon21:45
X-FadeOn IE you don't even have the search box?21:46
tkoferenc, guess it depends on your release goals. I'd think the screenshots would be a bit polish, IMHO21:46
ferencX-Fade:  would be great if you could commit fixes for IE :)21:46
ferenctko: my release goals originally were very simple. i wanted an identical site with the current maemo.org, but on top of midgard.21:47
X-FadeI'll try to find some time in the next days.21:47
ferencwell, compared to that we already did a lot more.21:48
ferencX-Fade: that'd be nice.21:48
tkoferenc, oh. seems the goals have shifted a little bit since21:48
ferenctko: well, it is really crazy to work with guys who can not stop throwing in ideas :)21:48
X-Fadeferenc: the website seems to lack a real frontpage.21:48
tkoferenc, isn't that what phase 2 is for? :)21:48
X-FadeThis doens't look inviting at all?21:48
ferenctko: we have a full set of tasks for Phase 2, and I would say soon Phase 3 wll be shaping up as well.21:49
ferencX-Fade: yes, i know.21:49
ferenci requested some fancy marketing materials so i am waiting those.21:49
ferencwe can have a "composite" component on the front page, that can have nice pics.21:50
ferencthe idea was to have 3 image links pointing to various places on the site. TigerT or Bergie could tell more.21:50
X-FadeYeah, I think some pics will help a lot ;)21:50
tkopicture of the day kind of thing?21:50
ferenctko: yes, kinda. but it would not change every day i guess :)21:50
ferencif you wait a sec i will demo it.21:51
tkowhich reminds me, the front page should probably have 'app of the day' or something as well :)21:51
ferencjust have to edit it on the internal server first21:51
X-FadeSome smooth, highly styled Nokia image. Like the one on the box.21:51
ferenctko: yep, we had the idea as well.21:51
ferenctko: again, lack of time, so we will not have it now.21:51
tkostory of our lives...21:52
ferencX-Fade: i hope i get some of those from our marketing dept.21:52
ferencone thing guys, i am looking for some "kick":21:52
tkoferenc, it's OK if the maintenance continues and is not just dropped21:53
ferenchow to communicate for existing wiki users that if they do not have a garage account then they should register asap21:53
tkomailing list + wiki front page?21:53
X-Fadeferenc: redirect the edit button on the wiki to a message page? :)21:53
tkoand maemo.org news?21:53
ferenctko: yes. we also have a nice tool which could send polite emails to each and every wiki editor21:53
ferencX-Fade: brilliant!21:54
ferenci would like to put the wiki content to the site first.21:54
ferencthen inform the wiki users/editors to move over and start using the new site.21:55
X-Fadeferenc: Why not use some of these pics? http://www.nokia.com/A4138058?category=77021:57
X-FadeThey are released for press. I guess that we can use them too? :)21:57
ferencX-Fade: true... but i would not like maemo.org to become a flashy marketing site. we should keep our focus on developers and development.21:58
ferencthough these new changes (like app catalog) are targeting "end users" as well, who somehow end up at the site21:59
X-FadeYou can always gimp some hello world code on the screen? :)21:59
tkoferenc, like from tableteer? :)21:59
ferencX-Fade: :))21:59
X-FadeThese pics have all been photoshopped. Rather obvious too..22:00
glasseven semi-serious users end up at app catalog22:00
glassor is there a place for "non devs" or whatever to find apps, really?22:01
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ferencglass: there isn't,  to my knowledge.22:07
ferenctko: images from tableteer? well.. i don't know..22:07
ferencby the way frontpage: do you have proposals for a slogan?22:09
X-Fadeferenc: Hmm using links to bora.research.xxxxx isn't going to work also..22:09
tkoferenc, uhh, I meant being redirected from tableteer to maemo.org (apps catalog)22:12
ferencX-Fade: that's right. where did you find such?22:13
ferenctko: ahh, ok. yes, that will make sense.22:13
tkoferenc, wrt slogan, did valtteri mention we should emphasize maemo being the open source part of ITOS ?22:15
ferenctko: i have sometimes problems what all of use think about maemo. what is maemo? etc etc.22:16
ferencfor some it is just a word, someone says it is a dev platform, some says it is an application dev platform only22:16
ferencnow we say it is the open part of the IT OS :)22:17
tkoI know what you mean.. up until tuesday morning I though 'maemo API' meant something else than we apparently want to say it is :)22:17
ferenctko: :)22:17
ferencoh, one other meaning: some thinks maemo is maemo.org22:18
ferencwell, to have one slogan which suits all these is quite a challenge.22:18
tkowell, friday is probably a good time to figure it out22:19
ferenctko: yes. btw. did you discuss the Friday meeting here at #maemo already?22:19
tkono, I wasn't sure it's going to happen22:20
tkothere's a tiny bit of transparency missing :)22:20
mgedmin "maemo is a five letter word"22:20
ferenctko: well, we can make it happen.22:21
ferencmgedmin: i guess you are close to the truth :)22:21
tko"maemo, the son of pwgen" :)22:22
X-Fadeferenc: commit r127 for example.22:22
ferenctko: oh yes.22:22
ferencX-Fade: checking22:22
tkoferenc, yeah.. it'll probably work out nicely if someone just states up front that he'll announce the meeting and publish minutes22:23
X-Fade"maemo: so dynamic even Nokia doesn't know where it's heading" :)22:25
tkoX-Fade, nice, but it might be difficult to get that pass marketing :)22:26
koen"maemo: opensource, but not overnight"22:26
X-Fades/Nokia/we/g :)22:26
koen"maemo: asking for a roadmap pisses people off"22:27
X-Fade"maemo: the other side of the great firewall"22:27
Takmaemo sounds like the name of a cheesy mascot22:28
Taktherefore, we need a cheesy mascot22:29
ferencTak: good point! we need one.22:29
tkoI said that a long time ago! though I didn't say 'cheesy'22:29
ferenctko: i remember. but unfortunately our artists dept. was not established back then..22:29
Takmaybe a giant stylus with feet, arms, and oversized eyeballs22:29
Takas long as it's not too phallic22:30
ferenctigert and MDK should perhaps gather "maemo artists"22:31
ferencpersonally i don't know anybody else from nokia who works with graphics etc.22:31
tkoferenc, and erik, he did the sardine graphics I think22:31
ferencand actively present here in the community.22:32
ferencoh yes, I am sorry. I forgot him.22:32
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ferencapologize Erik22:32
tkohe's not here, I think, so we can freely talk behind his back :)22:32
ferenctko: anyway, you see how much this team changed since the start? we have real artists nowadays :)22:33
ferencwe really need some fresh blood and ideas though.22:33
tkowe have lots more crazy people these days than before, yes :)22:34
ferencanyway, check out the pics at test.maemo.org (dummies, created by tigert)22:34
ferencthis is the thing i meant earlier.22:34
X-FadeFor app of the day?22:35
tkooh yes, could definitely use something like that22:35
X-FadeOr a few random apps from the database.22:36
X-FadeBut the website is still very fetch heavy. Your browser has to do a lot of requests to get all things included from a page.22:37
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X-Fade8 stylesheets, 6 javascript files etc etc..22:38
X-Faderefreshing that a random page takes 6 seconds on my 20Mbit connection in firefox :)22:39
ferencX-Fade: after the tests we will switch off debug logs and enable squid22:40
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ferenci don't know how much it will help, but I was told that it will.22:40
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X-FadeI think concentrating all those seperate files will also help a lot.22:41
X-FadeI don't even want to try to open this page on gprs :)22:41
ferencX-Fade: can you drop an email on this to the discussion list?22:41
ferencs/can/could22:42
X-FadeI also discussed that with bergie some weeks ago.22:42
X-FadeBut I can also send that to the list.22:44
keesjis there software available for the n770 that you have to pay for?22:44
ferencX-Fade: pls do so, we have forgotten so many things already :(22:44
ferenckeesj: i have heard about some PIM suite which needs some subscription fee if you want to use it for a longer time...22:44
ferenckeesj: i got no link at hand, though22:45
X-FadeYeah, I already posted about the side menu. That is should not be drawn when empty. But nobody responded ;)22:45
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ferencX-Fade: yes. we don't have it on the frontpage anymore22:45
ferencand on the app catalog we will put the search box there22:45
X-Fadeferenc: it still messes up the app catalog.22:45
ferencwhich reminds me to do it.22:46
X-Fadeah..22:46
ferenctigert designed the search stuff today, i got to integrate it now.22:46
X-Fadeferenc: yeah, I think that was that commit I pointed out to you :)22:46
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ferencX-Fade: yes, i am right on it. will take a while though.22:47
X-FadeNo worries :) Working outside company hours eh?22:48
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_Handful_Hi! any german folk here to help us translating Canola?22:51
_Handful_and of course.. other languages are welcome too =)22:51
_Handful_ferenc: I think we will break with hungarian lol22:52
ferencX-Fade: sad but true i like this stuff.22:54
ferenc_Handful_: i am in for that22:55
_Handful_ferenc: we are finishing the .po files, then I will send you ok?22:55
_Handful_very little amount of text..22:56
ferenc_Handful_: no :( please upload them to garage :)22:56
_Handful_but we are on our way to "force" it to be open22:56
_Handful_ferenc: Ow yes... better!22:56
_Handful_I will do that..22:56
ferenc_Handful_: cool22:56
_Handful_amd good news for the ones that are using it, we reduced a lot the cpu usage22:57
_Handful_we needed to remove some small eye candy effects.. but it's going to be much more easy to use other applications along with canola now22:57
_Handful_smooth text-scrolling was mainly the problem : /22:57
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tkohmm, I wonder if I'll manage to collect an unresolved issues list this week :-/23:50
ferenctko: we still have a few hours left from the week :)23:54
tkoI have at least half of tomorrow already booked, some of friday, and there's still work I should be doing this week too...23:55
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