| |tbb| | i try to show youtube vidz, i tried following instructions of http://getaccess.to/n770/ but i cant open the bookmarked link with the opera browser on my n770. on my firefox browser on the desktop pc it works fine, any suggest | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| Jaffa | |tbb|: tried using http://www.bleb.org/services/vidconvert/ (yeah, another plug for my own stuff, but it might work better) | 00:22 |
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| |tbb| | jaffa, which player do you use to watch them then | 00:31 |
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| |tbb| | i wonder how long the vid convert page will survive | 00:34 |
| Jaffa | |tbb|: built-in one. | 00:48 |
| Jaffa | |tbb|: At the moment, the load is such that there's no reason for it not to survive indefinitely. | 00:48 |
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| |tbb| | how long do u use vidconvert page and how often do u have to wait queued ur vidz to convert | 00:52 |
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| Jaffa | |tbb|: I use it whenever I want to watch something off YouTube on my 770, away from a desktop computer. | 01:10 |
| Jaffa | (or other, non-RealVideo file for that matter) | 01:11 |
| Jaffa | The queue's currently empty, and generally is whenever I use it. | 01:11 |
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| ajturner | when did the N770 nav kit come out? | 03:11 |
| timelyx | recently :) | 03:14 |
| ajturner | that's what I was thinking - not sure when I missed it | 03:14 |
| ajturner | looks interesting, what are they using for mapping? | 03:14 |
| ajturner | teleatlas's stuff or something? | 03:14 |
| timelyx | the vendor is responsible for it | 03:15 |
| timelyx | it's not nokia's | 03:15 |
| timelyx | (navicore) | 03:15 |
| timelyx | http://www.navicoretech.com/Consumer/NewsEvents/news/en_GB/NokiaNavicore770/ | 03:15 |
| ajturner | right, i assumed nokia was just repackaging something | 03:16 |
| timelyx | i don't think nokia's repackaging i | 03:16 |
| timelyx | t | 03:16 |
| timelyx | but maybe i'm wrong | 03:16 |
| ajturner | well, selling it from their site | 03:16 |
| ajturner | hrm, I would like to be able to do the same w/ Maemo mapper | 03:17 |
| ajturner | by storing up large sets of mapping tiles | 03:17 |
| * timelyx did that | 03:17 | |
| timelyx | 1gb mmc + lots of free time on my hands | 03:17 |
| timelyx | i'd suggest not doing that | 03:17 |
| Juhaz | and you wouldn't actually get off-line routing that way, just maps | 03:18 |
| timelyx | http://www.europe.nokia.com/EUROPE_NOKIA_COM_3/Accessories/flash/data/xml/others/770NavigationKit.html | 03:18 |
| ajturner | timelyx - what did you do? | 03:19 |
| timelyx | traveled to the states w/ my 770, maemo mapper, and a bluetooth enabled cell phone or two | 03:19 |
| ajturner | ah, so you d/l'd enroute? | 03:19 |
| ajturner | that's my point - would be nice to precache | 03:20 |
| timelyx | and tried to slurp maps for large portions of the world manually in order to have a demo of the 770 w/o internet access | 03:20 |
| timelyx | i did precache | 03:20 |
| ajturner | I'm hoping OpenStreetmaps makes it into Maemo Mapper | 03:20 |
| timelyx | i spent at least half in an hour @ LHR manually precaching by walking around the world | 03:20 |
| ajturner | demoing where? | 03:20 |
| timelyx | to random people i visited | 03:20 |
| ajturner | well, doing realtime nav using googlemaps is against the TOS | 03:20 |
| timelyx | i wasn't doing realtime anything | 03:20 |
| ajturner | make it to michigan? ;) | 03:21 |
| timelyx | not this trip, only silicon valley | 03:21 |
| timelyx | i was in michigan in 2002 and 2003 | 03:21 |
| ajturner | outside detroit? | 03:22 |
| timelyx | ann arbor both years and grand rapids the second year | 03:22 |
| ajturner | ah, yep | 03:22 |
| ajturner | but obviously SF is the place to be | 03:22 |
| timelyx | kinda depends on your definition of outside i suppose | 03:22 |
| ajturner | heh | 03:22 |
| ajturner | right- AA's don't think they're near Detroit, but they are | 03:22 |
| ajturner | I live about 10 miles outside AA | 03:22 |
| timelyx | i took a greyhound bus back through detroit the first year, so i guess "not safely" would be one answer | 03:23 |
| ajturner | heh | 03:23 |
| * timelyx grumbles | 03:23 | |
| timelyx | nokia's needs to pay people who speak English to write their text | 03:24 |
| timelyx | s/'s// | 03:24 |
| ajturner | most of the people from Nokia I've met *aren't* finnish, so I wonder where they're from | 03:24 |
| ajturner | most have been english, some italians | 03:24 |
| timelyx | random european countries+the far east | 03:25 |
| timelyx | very few from the new world | 03:25 |
| * timelyx wonders if india is considered far east | 03:25 | |
| * timelyx sighs | 03:26 | |
| timelyx | i hope this article was written by a finn | 03:26 |
| timelyx | because if it was written by a native speaker, I'm really ashamed | 03:26 |
| ajturner | I wouldn't be surprised | 03:26 |
| timelyx | they can't even spell United States Government correctly :( | 03:28 |
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| timelyx | i suppose a brit could have written it, but i highly doubt that a brit would make such a mistake... oh well | 03:29 |
| Jaffa | What's the text? | 03:32 |
| timelyx | url i pasted a few screens ago | 03:33 |
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| Jaffa | Definitely non-native speaker. The lack of definite and indefinite articles is the giveaway. | 03:36 |
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| * timelyx sighs | 03:37 | |
| timelyx | it's really unprofessional | 03:37 |
| glass | sometimes people who do speak native english write it not so well | 03:37 |
| timelyx | sometimes people who speak English natively can't write their way out of a paper bag | 03:38 |
| timelyx | that doesn't make you a native speaker. | 03:38 |
| timelyx | the mistakes native speakers make are very different from the ones non native speakers make, at least in general | 03:40 |
| timelyx | Note that in English, you're supposed to capitalize proper nouns, and languages, such as Finnish are proper nouns. This is unlike certain languages, such as Finnish. | 03:41 |
| * timelyx rarely capitalizes anything on irc | 03:42 | |
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| timelyx | does anyone here have os2005 handy? | 03:49 |
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| tigert | morning! | 07:41 |
| tigert | yea, in finnish we don't capitalize stuff like that | 07:41 |
| tigert | but I rarely use the shift key in irc in general anyway | 07:42 |
| tigert | timelyx: we have lots of non-finnish people at nokia, but not _that_ many native english speakers. :) | 07:44 |
| tigert | "non-finns" yeah, but from a wide range of countries really, it's quite an international mix | 07:45 |
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| alump | "GConf warning: failure listing pairs in `/system/http_proxy': Configuration server couldn't be contacted: D-BUS error: No reply within specified time966: arguments to dbus_connection_send_with_reply_and_block() were incorrect, assertion "connection != NULL" failed in file dbus-connection.c line 2769." | 09:12 |
| alump | I get this error on the newest version of 770's firmware - is there a bug in there or in my code | 09:13 |
| alump | this doesn't happen with older versions of os2006 | 09:15 |
| tigert | MDK? | 09:29 |
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| tigert | woot | 10:07 |
| tigert | time to go to work, got the new theme template coordinates extracted | 10:07 |
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| tigert | now thememaker can finally use and share the sardine template, since I have one for OS2006 also | 10:08 |
| tigert | (sardine theme is a bit different) | 10:08 |
| tigert | and then I need to update my own theme and release it :) | 10:08 |
| koen | tigert: does Xan do IRC? | 10:09 |
| X-Fade | Sweet :) | 10:09 |
| tigert | Xan? | 10:10 |
| tigert | X-Fade: indeed :) | 10:11 |
| koen | tigert: the nokia gtk+ performance dude, Xan Lopez | 10:12 |
| koen | tigert: http://blogs.gnome.org/view/xan/ | 10:12 |
| tigert | ah | 10:28 |
| tigert | I am not sure, ask tko | 10:28 |
| tigert | he probably knows | 10:28 |
| tigert | I can ask once I get to the office | 10:29 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:55 |
| koen | hey Jaffa | 10:55 |
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| Guardian | morning | 11:00 |
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| florian_kc | good morning | 11:01 |
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| obergix[work] | morning | 11:14 |
| obergix[work] | anyone know why the navigation kit from Nokia is sold for every other countries but France (and maybe others ?) on the nokia on-line shop ? | 11:14 |
| florian_kc | obergix[work]: That might be a license issue... there might be something different with licensing maps for France. iirc its a pain in Germany as well... | 11:18 |
| obergix[work] | f*ck | 11:19 |
| obergix[work] | florian_kc: thx | 11:19 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:26 |
| florian_kc | hi AD-N770 | 11:30 |
| florian_kc | obergix[work]: but that's really just a guess | 11:30 |
| obergix[work] | florian_kc: I'll try and find time to call the shop | 11:30 |
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| tigert | hmm | 12:01 |
| tigert | 12:02 | |
| florian_kc | hi tigert | 12:06 |
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| tigert | hi :) | 12:11 |
| tigert | /wg 4 | 12:12 |
| tigert | oops ;) | 12:12 |
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| sebas_ | is there any word on java support for maemo? | 12:18 |
| inz | Lots of words, but seemingly no action. | 12:25 |
| sebas_ | crap | 12:25 |
| sebas_ | thats the only thing keeping me from getting this phone | 12:25 |
| inz | tis not a phone | 12:25 |
| sebas_ | sorry | 12:25 |
| sebas_ | i would use it as a phone anyways | 12:26 |
| inz | Well, technically it is a VoIP phone nowadays | 12:26 |
| sebas_ | but i want to be able to develop software to it | 12:26 |
| sebas_ | simple things | 12:26 |
| sebas_ | and i dont wanna code c or c++ | 12:26 |
| sebas_ | that would be a waist of t ime | 12:26 |
| sebas_ | ...if you ask me | 12:26 |
| sebas_ | are there anyother good handheld devices? | 12:27 |
| sebas_ | with linux | 12:27 |
| sebas_ | and java? | 12:27 |
| sebas_ | that are as good as the 770? i cannot find anything like it | 12:27 |
| sebas_ | only old crappy ones | 12:28 |
| sebas_ | i should become a hardware manufacturer. i could please all of you *grandness* | 12:28 |
| sebas_ | heey | 12:29 |
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| inz | If you don't wanna do C or C++, try python =) | 12:29 |
| sebas_ | you can run c# on it | 12:29 |
| sebas_ | i want to run something OO | 12:29 |
| inz | python is OO | 12:29 |
| sebas_ | and not c++ | 12:29 |
| sebas_ | yes | 12:29 |
| sebas_ | but i dont code python | 12:29 |
| sebas_ | hmm | 12:29 |
| inz | Me neither =) | 12:29 |
| sebas_ | that would be a good challange though | 12:30 |
| sebas_ | :P | 12:30 |
| sebas_ | but it runs mono | 12:30 |
| inz | yeah | 12:30 |
| sebas_ | so thats atleast something | 12:30 |
| sebas_ | i could code mono | 12:30 |
| sebas_ | thats java in a way | 12:30 |
| sebas_ | not really | 12:30 |
| sebas_ | but i could pretend | 12:30 |
| inz | C# = Java run through a simple sed script ;) | 12:30 |
| sebas_ | hahahaha | 12:30 |
| sebas_ | "NASA uses Python..." | 12:30 |
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| koen | interpreted languages on a 250MHz arm cpu | 12:31 |
| koen | "interesting" | 12:31 |
| sebas_ | ive been wanting to learn python for a while | 12:31 |
| sebas_ | koen: that is true | 12:31 |
| sebas_ | 250? oh | 12:31 |
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| sbaturzio | is python a real interpreted language? even if it create that "bytecode" just before execution? | 12:33 |
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| sebas_ | wow | 12:37 |
| sebas_ | i will not do python | 12:37 |
| sebas_ | not for a phone | 12:37 |
| sebas_ | hehe | 12:37 |
| sebas_ | it does not look like fun | 12:37 |
| bilboed | sebas_, means you've never used python | 12:38 |
| sebas_ | yes | 12:38 |
| sebas_ | 10:29 < sebas_> but i dont code python | 12:38 |
| sebas_ | i was scrolling though some tutorials | 12:38 |
| bilboed | sebas_, the only downside to python on small devices is the startup time... but there's work being done currently to speed that up | 12:39 |
| sebas_ | hmm | 12:39 |
| sebas_ | but i mean python does not seem to be antying like java, c# etc | 12:39 |
| sebas_ | very diffrent syntax | 12:39 |
| sebas_ | very diffrent everything | 12:39 |
| sebas_ | i would be able to learn it | 12:40 |
| sebas_ | but i need to be motivated due to my autism. | 12:40 |
| sebas_ | and i dont think i would buy a phone to learn to code. | 12:40 |
| sebas_ | python | 12:40 |
| sebas_ | i rememeber once i bought a 286 to learn to code c++ | 12:40 |
| sebas_ | those where the days | 12:40 |
| dwd | sebas_: I have a fairly large Python project running at reasonable speed on a 770. | 12:41 |
| sebas_ | hmm | 12:42 |
| sebas_ | well | 12:42 |
| sebas_ | still | 12:42 |
| sebas_ | they should not exclude java | 12:42 |
| sebas_ | thats just bizzare | 12:42 |
| sebas_ | i mean even if it was slow | 12:42 |
| sebas_ | 770 would get a lot of apps that would work | 12:42 |
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| suihkulokki | nobody excluding java.. | 12:43 |
| suihkulokki | just nobody bothered enough to do it themself | 12:43 |
| dwd | sebas_: I think it's more that Java is excluding the 770, not the other way around. | 12:43 |
| sebas_ | suihkulokki: haha | 12:43 |
| sebas_ | dwd: yes | 12:43 |
| sebas_ | true | 12:43 |
| sebas_ | dwd: lets say 770 and java should be better friends. | 12:44 |
| sebas_ | good diplomatic awnser. | 12:44 |
| Jaffa | Someone needs to just *try* porting phoneme - that'll start a Java ball rolling | 12:44 |
| sebas_ | phoneme? | 12:44 |
| Jaffa | The new open source version of a Java ME (aka J2ME) stack | 12:45 |
| sebas_ | looks intetestibng | 12:45 |
| sebas_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneme | 12:45 |
| sebas_ | heh | 12:45 |
| sebas_ | its not that is it? | 12:45 |
| suihkulokki | someone got quite far porting java to the device, but got stuck doe to a xserver bug | 12:45 |
| Jaffa | No | 12:45 |
| sebas_ | hehe ok | 12:45 |
| suihkulokki | which has since been fixed | 12:45 |
| Jaffa | sebas_: http://phoneme.dev.java.net/ | 12:45 |
| Jaffa | suihkulokki: that was JamVM, wasn't it? | 12:45 |
| suihkulokki | so someone who *cares* about java just needs to pick up the pieces and continue | 12:46 |
| sebas_ | suihkulokki: are you looking at me? | 12:46 |
| sebas_ | ^^ | 12:46 |
| suihkulokki | :P | 12:46 |
| sebas_ | hmm | 12:46 |
| sebas_ | i dont "care" persay about java | 12:46 |
| sebas_ | i could do it with mono | 12:46 |
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| sebas_ | its not like i am planning to code apps to the 770 | 12:47 |
| Jaffa | Mono's not much further than Java on the 770, TBH. | 12:47 |
| sebas_ | i was just thinking if i have a 770 i would one day want to make stuff for it | 12:47 |
| sebas_ | i made a schedualar for my last PDA | 12:47 |
| sebas_ | cos i keep forgetting stuff | 12:48 |
| sebas_ | *signs* | 12:48 |
| Jaffa | GPE Calendar, GPE Todo? | 12:48 |
| sebas_ | i want to make my own | 12:49 |
| dwd | sebas_: Python's a handy language to learn. Runs nicely on the 770, runs nicely on the desktop, runs nicely for webapps. | 12:49 |
| Jaffa | Ah. | 12:49 |
| sebas_ | with my stuff | 12:49 |
| sebas_ | dwd: you mean i should learn a new language just for this? | 12:49 |
| sebas_ | heh, i like your way of thinking | 12:49 |
| sebas_ | a bit annoying and it gives me OCDs but still... it would be a good reason to learn pything | 12:50 |
| sebas_ | python | 12:50 |
| dwd | sebas_: No, I mean you would benefit from learning the language anyway. | 12:50 |
| sebas_ | excatly | 12:50 |
| sebas_ | hehe | 12:50 |
| sebas_ | good point. | 12:50 |
| dwd | sebas_: If it were just for this, I'd agree that'd be a quirky way of thinking. | 12:50 |
| sebas_ | ok then | 12:50 |
| sebas_ | well, i always think quite quirky in the eyes of others | 12:51 |
| sebas_ | that is why they put this stamp on me "high functioning autistic." | 12:51 |
| sebas_ | it really only means my brain works in a diffrent manner. | 12:51 |
| sebas_ | ok | 12:51 |
| sebas_ | i will do some reading then i guess. | 12:51 |
| sebas_ | see if it is fun or not | 12:51 |
| dwd | sebas_: FWIW, Python isn't interpreted anymore than Java is. Python can compile itself, but it also stores the results, and typically the device itself wouldn't do compilation. | 12:51 |
| sebas_ | dwd: thnx | 12:51 |
| suihkulokki | appears someone already did pick up java: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2896 | 12:52 |
| sebas_ | what about databases | 12:52 |
| sebas_ | or where should information be stored on the 770? | 12:52 |
| sebas_ | just in a file? | 12:52 |
| Jaffa | Lot of people are using SQLite | 12:52 |
| sebas_ | there is a SQLite server for 770? hah | 12:52 |
| sebas_ | nice 1 | 12:53 |
| inz | SQLite doesn't have server | 12:53 |
| florian_kc | inz: s/have/need ;) | 12:53 |
| inz | florian, s/have/use/ could be better | 12:53 |
| inz | but anyway | 12:54 |
| florian_kc | :-) | 12:54 |
| sebas_ | inz: hmm, i have never used it, i assumed it was like sql or mysql | 12:54 |
| sebas_ | but lighter | 12:54 |
| sebas_ | :P | 12:54 |
| inz | sebas, it's a bit like them, but all "server operations" are run in the client | 12:54 |
| sebas_ | yeah | 12:54 |
| sebas_ | i am reading about it now | 12:54 |
| florian_kc | sebas_: its similar, yes... and for sure you can use it to store data :-) | 12:54 |
| sebas_ | so _thats_ why its light | 12:54 |
| sebas_ | heh | 12:55 |
| inz | sebas, the other way(tm) of storing (simple) data is gconf | 12:55 |
| inz | sebas, and gconf is backed up by default, so you need not worry about telling backup sw about what files to backup | 12:55 |
| sebas_ | the log of the java discussion will prolly have a bigger file size then the actuall code i will write all together | 12:56 |
| inz | =) | 12:56 |
| sebas_ | ^^ | 12:56 |
| sebas_ | so i should go out and get a 770 then. | 12:57 |
| sebas_ | and learn python. | 12:57 |
| sebas_ | i will go through som tutorials today | 12:57 |
| inz | have phun | 12:57 |
| sebas_ | see how i have missunderstood everything. | 12:57 |
| sebas_ | yah, thnx :) | 12:58 |
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| mgedmin | gconf is for storing user's configuration settings | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | people will frown if you try to use it for something else | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | I think | 13:07 |
| inz | mgedmin, true | 13:10 |
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| Le-Chuck_ITA | Hi all | 13:13 |
| Le-Chuck_ITA | I have two very quick questions about maemo | 13:13 |
| Le-Chuck_ITA | 1. can maemo be installed on pcs? I have a tablet pc | 13:13 |
| Le-Chuck_ITA | Could it be done modifying the original source? | 13:13 |
| Le-Chuck_ITA | 2. I ask this because I would like to have an handwriting recognition engine on linux - is the handwriting input method of maemo open source? | 13:14 |
| inz | yarr | 13:14 |
| inz | The hwr is closed | 13:14 |
| Le-Chuck_ITA | ok thanks :) | 13:15 |
| Le-Chuck_ITA | I would even pay for that | 13:15 |
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| Le-Chuck_ITA | but I suppose nokia won't do the porting | 13:16 |
| inz | Very likely not | 13:16 |
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| Le-Chuck_ITA | thank you iniz | 13:17 |
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| * Jaffa wonders how easy it'll be to get Classpath's GtkWindows to be HildonWindows. | 13:29 | |
| Jaffa | For that matter, given the Gtk fork for the 770, why hasn't the behaviour of GtkWindow changed, making porting trivial? (probably one for tko, probably one I've asked before) | 13:30 |
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| florian_kc | Jaffa: That's one of the major ideas of object oriented software development: inherit instead of change things. For the HildonWindow this solution is absolutely correct. | 13:34 |
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| Jaffa | florian_kc: except it's also one of the fundamental flaws. No-one should be using GtkWindow on Maemo (unless I've missed something), and there's no factory to give you a window (which would abstract the production of the appropriate *Window and therefore make it correct). So porting *anything* requires code changes. Given code changes have already been made, to change the behaviour of input boxes and checkboxes etc. it'd've made sense to replace GtkWindow wi | 13:36 |
| Jaffa | (and whilst at it, changing adding GtkMenuBars to transparently implement the dropdowns) | 13:36 |
| florian_kc | Jaffa: that would be much more complicated to maintain and is likely to cause trouble in future. adding bindings for new widgets should be easy... | 13:37 |
| * Jaffa shrugs - I'd prefer the balance of maintenance to be on Maemo's side, rather than mine. | 13:43 | |
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| mlpug- | Is maemo/scratchbox on cygwin feasible/sensible setup? | 15:06 |
| tigert | depends on your relationship with "pain" | 15:07 |
| Robot101 | it won't work | 15:07 |
| Robot101 | sbox needs binfmt_misc | 15:07 |
| Robot101 | and bind mounts | 15:07 |
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| mlpug- | So to somebody on windows i should say buy another machine install debian or put vmware or something to make windows and linux to coexist, right | 15:13 |
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| sbaturzio | mlpug-: you can set up a dual boot machine, without buying a new computer | 15:14 |
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| mlpug- | Dualboot. Of course. Anyway, cygwin did not get a lot of support in this gallup | 15:21 |
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| Jaffa | mlpug-: I'm doing most of my Maemo develo-pment in Scratchbox on Ubuntu in the free VMware Player | 15:25 |
| Jaffa | I keep meaning to remove work stuff from it, scale it down a bit, and put it somewhere... | 15:25 |
| _follower_ | Jaffa: Yes please! :-) | 15:25 |
| _follower_ | wot hardware are you running the vmware player on? | 15:26 |
| Jaffa | A very nice new laptop from work: Dell D620: dual-core, 2GHz, 2GB of RAM | 15:26 |
| _follower_ | how much hard drive space does ubuntu + sbox need? | 15:27 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, the disk image is currently about 8.5GB - but it's a full Ubuntu system. | 15:28 |
| Jaffa | May well make it unfeasible to share | 15:28 |
| _follower_ | is it practical to have a gui-less install if i'm just wanting to compile? | 15:28 |
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| Jaffa | GUI isn't too hard if you get the Browser Appliance for free from VMware and then run the Maemo installer shell script | 15:29 |
| _follower_ | my issue is performance | 15:29 |
| Jaffa | Yeah | 15:29 |
| _follower_ | i'd be running it in QEmu on 1.67GHz PPC mac with minimal hdd space :-) | 15:30 |
| Jaffa | Should be feasible. There are bound to be basic Ubuntu VMware images out there which only provide text-mode. | 15:30 |
| Jaffa | Ah :) | 15:30 |
| Jaffa | Can QEmu handle VMware images? | 15:30 |
| _follower_ | not sure. i've managed to boot two Ubuntu Live CDs, one was practical one not so much--about 1 hour to boot :-) | 15:30 |
| _follower_ | actually, for that matter does anyone know if ubuntu live CDs allow text-only installs (for the actual installation process)? i assume so... | 15:34 |
| Jaffa | They do. | 15:34 |
| _follower_ | i should try that... is it possible to install only the compilation side of sbox? | 15:35 |
| Jaffa | Don't think so, but the GUI bits won't take up much space (since you need the libraries and headers etc. to compile against) | 15:36 |
| _follower_ | hmmmm.... maybe i'll have to continue my search for some more hdd space... :-/ | 15:37 |
| _follower_ | Jaffa: thanks for the feedback | 15:37 |
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| sylware | Hi, the flasher download page on maemo seems down. Where can I get the linux flasheR? | 15:50 |
| sylware | Are nvidia chips close enough in order to have one driver? | 15:54 |
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| sylware | Oups, wrong channel. | 16:09 |
| sylware | Anything on the flasher? | 16:09 |
| Jaffa | Nope | 16:17 |
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| X-Fade | sylware: It seems the php files are broken. http://maemo.org/downloads/ | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | They are 0 bytes :) | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | But nokia_770.php still works. | 16:24 |
| dwd | Hmmm... From the mailing list - anyone happen to know if Debian's buildd and friends could work for Maemo? | 16:24 |
| _follower_ | umm, any idea why someone removed http://maemo.org/maemowiki/CodeNames (Maemo glossary) from the wiki? | 16:25 |
| _follower_ | someone just pointed the removal out to me... | 16:25 |
| dwd | _follower_: Got pointed out on the mailing list a little while ago, too. | 16:25 |
| _follower_ | oh, i'm many days behind on ml... | 16:25 |
| _follower_ | is it possible to undelete? | 16:26 |
| sylware | X-Fade: nokia_770.php is ok for flasher download? | 16:26 |
| X-Fade | sylware: No, only the image. | 16:27 |
| sylware | X-Fade: I have the image... need the flasher... | 16:27 |
| Jaffa | _follower_: I noticed it earlier, immediate thought was "censorship", but RecentChanges shows it was "mail" | 16:28 |
| _follower_ | yeah, what does "mail" mean? | 16:28 |
| _follower_ | that really sucks--especially with no revision history... :-( :-( | 16:29 |
| Jaffa | _follower_: it's the first bit of the domain name of the IP which did it | 16:30 |
| _follower_ | so does anyone who administers the wiki have any ability to "undelete" pages? | 16:31 |
| koen | it looks like someone deleted the on-disk storage | 16:33 |
| sylware | koen: malicious? | 16:34 |
| X-Fade | I reopened the 'Unable to download flasher utility' https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=858 | 16:34 |
| X-Fade | Please add some me too comments there ;) | 16:35 |
| koen | sylware: or reiserfs | 16:37 |
| _follower_ | hmmm, that sucks: google search for "maemo retu" shows the page content is cached as it shows in snippets but the *actual* cached copy is the deleted page | 16:37 |
| koen | so they deleted google too! | 16:40 |
| koen | it's a conspiracy! | 16:40 |
| koen | </sugar rush> | 16:41 |
| jurop88 | hi all | 16:41 |
| jurop88 | I am upgrading my 770 now and just get caught by the '770 flasher missing page' bug | 16:41 |
| jurop88 | fortunately I found a previous saved copy of it in my HDD :) | 16:41 |
| jurop88 | anybody has some good tricks to update without reinstalling every app? | 16:42 |
| X-Fade | jurop88: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=858 Please complain there :) | 16:42 |
| jurop88 | I found some threads on the subject but nothing really useful | 16:42 |
| jurop88 | @x-fade: I'll do it, also if I don't need it thx to my habit to have lots of backups | 16:42 |
| sylware | koen: this flasher attack seems malicious | 16:44 |
| jurop88 | I read something about python and PIM progs | 16:45 |
| jurop88 | all that I can say is that I am regularly using winzig | 16:45 |
| jurop88 | IMHO it's the best working pim app on N770 | 16:45 |
| jurop88 | really FAST, if you leave it ever open it works with palm speed | 16:46 |
| jurop88 | @x-fade:ok, complained for it :) | 16:48 |
| ajturner | is there PIM app that supports CalDAV? | 16:48 |
| koen | gpe-calendar | 16:49 |
| ajturner | how good is sync now with it? | 16:55 |
| sylware | koen: what are the differences between calDAV and iCal? | 16:55 |
| koen | ical is just a .ics file afaik | 16:55 |
| koen | caldav is an .ics file on a webdav share | 16:55 |
| koen | again, afaik | 16:55 |
| sylware | ajturner: I think you have a sync framework, opensync with the multisync ui. | 16:55 |
| sylware | koen: ok | 16:56 |
| ajturner | really, I want my mobile, laptop & n770 to all have the same sync'd data | 16:56 |
| koen | I never tried pushing to a webdav share, since my 770 is for 'read only' PIM | 16:56 |
| sylware | koen: the good idea would 3 ways sync: google PIM/Workstation PIM/Mobile device PIM | 16:57 |
| jurop88 | i am using winzig both on the 770 and PC | 16:57 |
| dwd | koen: CalDAV is rather more than just an iCal file on WebDAV - the WebDAV server provides lots of searching stuff etc. | 16:57 |
| jurop88 | and using unison both on the pc and 770 on a daily basis works like a charm | 16:57 |
| dwd | koen: Basically it's a full calendaring protocol, that happens to use WebDAV as the core syntax. | 16:57 |
| ajturner | jurop88, I run mac, and use iCal. Winzig says "reported to run on mac, but no details" | 16:58 |
| jurop88 | I think Winzig will works everywhere Python runs | 16:59 |
| jurop88 | uh-oh | 17:00 |
| jurop88 | perhaps not | 17:00 |
| jurop88 | it uses pygtk bindings | 17:00 |
| ajturner | bah! | 17:01 |
| _follower_ | does anyone here remember the "unofficial" code names for the 770/"870"devices? | 17:19 |
| _follower_ | they both started with "S" i think | 17:20 |
| timeless | there were codenames? | 17:20 |
| ajturner | is there an 870 in the pipeline? | 17:21 |
| _follower_ | yeah, someone had added them to the page i starteed | 17:21 |
| _follower_ | and had linked to messages in the mailing list | 17:21 |
| timeless | i thought there was an official secrets act or however the British wrote theirs... | 17:21 |
| koen | su-18w? | 17:22 |
| ajturner | hrm, eta before christmas? | 17:24 |
| suihkulokki | don't you know there is no christmas gifts for naughty industrial spies ;) | 17:28 |
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| sylware | 870: buildin GPS/GSM/UMTS/Bluetooth/wifi/DMT and the coffer make :) | 17:35 |
| koen | don't forget the 20" CRT | 17:35 |
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| suihkulokki | And it's still only half the size and weight ot 770 | 17:36 |
| sylware | koen: and a BIG battery! | 17:36 |
| dwd | koen: What, no projector? | 17:37 |
| ajturner | sounds like the N95 | 17:37 |
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| ajturner | mmm... geolocation | 17:38 |
| sylware | the N95... hum, is this S60 thing are C APIs? Because if so, we should do a port on linux | 17:38 |
| ajturner | what? | 17:38 |
| ajturner | that didn't quite make sense ;) | 17:39 |
| glass | yeah.. what you're talking about? | 17:39 |
| koen | well, Ari Jaaksi has stated that nokia ported linux to all their mobiles... | 17:40 |
| ajturner | and? | 17:41 |
| sylware | N9x and so on are "S60" enabled mobile phone and one of the most downloaded app for "S60" phones is the ogg/vorbis player. I wonder if "S60" specify a set of C APIs | 17:41 |
| glass | why don't you just stop speculating and go to forum.nokia.com and read about the hell that is symbian c++ | 17:43 |
| timeless | awww be nice, i'm sure it's a nice hell | 17:44 |
| timeless | warn and toasty for these cold finnish winters we aren't having | 17:44 |
| glass | it's not nice.. but the job market is nice because of it | 17:45 |
| _follower_ | well, i've "recreated" "CodeNames" as "Glossary" by joining together as many pieces as possible from the Google Cache context snippets: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/Glossary | 17:45 |
| sylware | glass: I though it was an effort to have standard C APIs on mobile phones... | 17:45 |
| timeless | this isn't the place to think about it at all | 17:46 |
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| glass | there's #symbian too, but please just go read the introduction to symbian docs on forum.nokia.com | 17:46 |
| sylware | glass, timeless: I'm interested in maemo, not symbian. | 17:47 |
| glass | it's still worthwhile to read them | 17:48 |
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| wasabi_ | There anyway to send control chars to the n770's terminal fromthe onscreen keyboard? | 17:57 |
| wasabi_ | specifically ESC or ctrl-C | 17:57 |
| wasabi_ | ahh ... found it. no esc though | 17:58 |
| mgedmin | the hardware key just under the arrow keys is ESC | 17:59 |
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| wasabi_ | nice. | 18:00 |
| timeless | why not use the app menu? | 18:01 |
| wasabi_ | Hmm. Anybody have a package containing the openssl binary? | 18:07 |
| wasabi_ | Hmm. Looks like just the libs are distributed. | 18:08 |
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| xan | hi | 19:35 |
| tko | xan, oh, they were looking for you some time in the morning, but now that you're here bookmark the channel so that you don't forget it :) | 19:37 |
| xan | oki | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | ISTR it was koen? | 19:40 |
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| xan | Koen Kool? | 19:42 |
| Jaffa | yup | 19:43 |
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| manaPirat | hi guys :o) | 20:24 |
| manaPirat | eeehm short question: I read on the mailinglists that textinput to qt-appliacitons running on maemo is not possible. Can you verify this? | 20:25 |
| tko | it is possible, though not documented or too well supported or even tested | 20:25 |
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| manaPirat | well :o) .. then i might give it a try .. as the kilelr application that i personaly see for linux mobile devices is a client to nomachines nx-server | 20:28 |
| manaPirat | and the only client libraries available are based on qt4 :-/ | 20:28 |
| manaPirat | and, if i may ask, where do you have your information about QT-issues from? :) | 20:29 |
| tko | I've been maintaining the maemo gtk for a few years now | 20:29 |
| manaPirat | ah :) and you *could* possibly give hints on how to enable textinput for qt-apps *in case* "somebody" runs into trouble? :D | 20:31 |
| tko | see http://maemo.org/maemowiki/InputMethod | 20:31 |
| manaPirat | uhun thanks for that tipp :D | 20:32 |
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| manaPirat | uh that looks like hacking it into the application ;) - thanks for the Information | 20:34 |
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| tko | with gtk it's hacked into the widgets | 20:35 |
| manaPirat | i "think" i understand :) | 20:37 |
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| |tbb| | does the nokia bluetooth keyboard work with the n77k | 20:55 |
| timeless | seems to, assuming there's only one such device and you mean n770 | 20:55 |
| |tbb| | yeah, i mean the 770 | 20:57 |
| |tbb| | is it possible to set the font size of the news feed reader applet on the home screen? | 20:59 |
| manaPirat | hmm .. after this evening of internet and IRC-Research i wonder which framework, and which framewirk will lead the mobile-linux devices market in the upcomming future ..... | 21:00 |
| manaPirat | aah "and which company" | 21:00 |
| manaPirat | they all have pros and cons ... | 21:01 |
| manaPirat | maemo: first consumer product out there | 21:01 |
| manaPirat | Trolltechs qtopia-phone with the greenphone: first real open linux phone | 21:02 |
| manaPirat | FIC's openmoko: seems to have cheaper and better hardware than trolltech | 21:02 |
| * manaPirat sighs due to that choices ... | 21:03 | |
| * koen coughs | 21:03 | |
| koen | who called the greenphone open? | 21:03 |
| koen | qtopia is still closed source | 21:03 |
| manaPirat | well .. the libs arent open, thats right :) | 21:03 |
| koen | and the sdk license is gpl incompatible | 21:04 |
| manaPirat | okay, its the first "you can do homebrew" phone, isnt it? | 21:04 |
| koen | so you can even *create* gpl software with it | 21:04 |
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| manaPirat | you mean you "cant"? | 21:04 |
| koen | you're aren't allowed to create gpl software with the sdk | 21:04 |
| koen | the license says you can only code for qtopia platforms | 21:04 |
| koen | which is gpl incompatible | 21:05 |
| manaPirat | and you are not allowed to sell the stuff if you use the community SDK right? ;) | 21:05 |
| manaPirat | sooooo .. when will the first smartphone with maemo arive? .. i need a small linux phone with terminal-server client :D .. shit ... | 21:06 |
| ssvb | maybe a stupid question, how can I enable core dumps generation on Nokia 770? | 21:06 |
| tko | ssvb, mkdir /media/mmc1/core-dumps | 21:09 |
| * manaPirat unknown command ssvb, | 21:11 | |
| manaPirat | ;) | 21:11 |
| mgedmin | export PS1="ssvb, " | 21:12 |
| manaPirat | *g* eeks with alzheimer's disease? ;) | 21:13 |
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| manaPirat | "/usr/bin/whatsmyname" | 21:13 |
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| tko | whoami | 21:13 |
| mgedmin | PS1="computer, " | 21:13 |
| mgedmin | looks interestingf | 21:13 |
| mgedmin | "computer, ls this directory" | 21:14 |
| mgedmin | "computer, run that program" | 21:14 |
| manaPirat | tscha .. develop maemo to have vioce recognition | 21:14 |
| manaPirat | "computer, enable washing machine" .. the wired home sweet home | 21:14 |
| manaPirat | or wireless, if you like | 21:14 |
| manaPirat | "Mr. i want my washing machine having at lest 128 Mbps" | 21:15 |
| ljp | koen: you dont know what you are talking about., you can make GPL apps with the greenphone sdk | 21:15 |
| * manaPirat doesnt know who is right. But the question is the same: Which open linux smartphone will be the first end-user ready?" | 21:17 | |
| koen | you said 'open', and right now there is none | 21:17 |
| manaPirat | and when will it arive :D my decision on a new cellphone will depend on that :-/ | 21:18 |
| manaPirat | yep, well it depends on how you define it | 21:18 |
| manaPirat | i like the competition that will arise if only the vendors and communitys try to reach compatibility | 21:19 |
| jjazz | Qtopia offers a GPL sdk the purpose of which is to allow creation of GPL'd apps. | 21:20 |
| manaPirat | so you can modify the SDK itself :) | 21:20 |
| jjazz | manaPirat: I don't know about that. | 21:21 |
| koen | jjazz: no, they are not: "NOTE: Downloads for the Greenphone SDK and source code are temporarily unavailable. | 21:21 |
| koen | We expect to make the packages available shortly." | 21:21 |
| manaPirat | well they have to give away the sourcodes if it is GPL, you know? :DDD | 21:21 |
| manaPirat | koen but i think that is due tot echnical problems? | 21:21 |
| jjazz | manaPirat: I don't know that the SDK itself is GPL, just that they offer a GPL SDK. | 21:22 |
| |tbb| | anyone able to port macchanger for the n770? | 21:22 |
| ljp | qtoia 4.2 will be released GPL | 21:22 |
| ssvb | tko: thanks a lot, that's quite an important information, is it available in howto/tuturuial/wiki or anywhere else? | 21:23 |
| manaPirat | that is good news | 21:23 |
| manaPirat | *openly asks:* has anybody insider-information if there is a maemo-enabled smartphone to arive from nokia until january? ;) | 21:24 |
| koen | manaPirat: if it were from nokia, it wouldn't be open | 21:24 |
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| manaPirat | but thier tablet PC is, well "open" isnt it? | 21:25 |
| ljp | nothing is ever good enough for koen | 21:26 |
| tko | ssvb, I'm not sure | 21:26 |
| manaPirat | hehe :) | 21:26 |
| mgedmin | depends upon your definition of "open", I guess | 21:26 |
| manaPirat | ja, said that before mgedmin :) | 21:26 |
| mgedmin | it is more open than, say, PalmOS devices | 21:26 |
| mgedmin | it is less open than I initially expected | 21:26 |
| manaPirat | they provide propritary device drivers, he? | 21:26 |
| manaPirat | thats not good :) | 21:26 |
| mgedmin | almost all the end-user apps are closed | 21:27 |
| manaPirat | and the drivers? | 21:27 |
| mgedmin | so you can't even fix bugs in Notes | 21:27 |
| manaPirat | and user apps are replaceable :D | 21:27 |
| mgedmin | (well, there is MaemoPad which is open source) | 21:27 |
| jjazz | mgedmin: What's the status of efforts to replace the user apps with open versions? | 21:27 |
| mgedmin | I don't know | 21:27 |
| manaPirat | i think they fear that the next open phone might popup and use the gpled-and-user applications *g* that would indeed suck for nokia | 21:27 |
| mgedmin | I'm not that much of a free software zealot | 21:28 |
| manaPirat | and = end | 21:28 |
| mgedmin | I would like it a lot better if the input stuff weren't closed | 21:28 |
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| jjazz | I am a zealot. Opening the source makes it much more likely that the app will improve. | 21:28 |
| mgedmin | I can't input Lithuanian letters even though the handwriting engine itself recognizes them -- but there's no language choice that would let me actually write them | 21:28 |
| ajturner | jjazz - I wonder if that's really true | 21:29 |
| jjazz | mgedmin: That sucks. | 21:29 |
| ajturner | I hear people say that alot | 21:29 |
| ajturner | but I'm not convinced | 21:29 |
| timeless | http://www.drizzle.com/~lettvin/2006/11/windows-shutdown-crapfest.html | 21:29 |
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| * mgedmin is zealot enough to prefer free software, but not zealot enough to start a free software Internet Tablet OS clone | 21:29 | |
| timeless | ms wins a prize, even nokia can't be that bad | 21:29 |
| jjazz | ajturner: Let me put it this way. With closed source, only Nokia can improve it. If they open the source, Nokia and thousands of others can improve it. Odds are that Lithuanian input would exist if the input code was open. | 21:30 |
| jjazz | mgedmin: I'm definitely zealot enough to only choose a tablet/phone that is open and hackable. | 21:30 |
| timeless | mgedmin what exactly do you need for lithuanian letters? last i checked there weren't even fonts for some of the chars | 21:31 |
| mgedmin | all the chars are there | 21:32 |
| florian | bbl | 21:32 |
| mgedmin | I can type them with the virtual keyboard in the "misc accents" section, which is inconvenient | 21:32 |
| mgedmin | the handwriting engine shows me the shapes of all of them | 21:32 |
| mgedmin | but when I actually try to input them, they are not recognized | 21:32 |
| ajturner | jjazz - Im' not saying it "can't", just that I wouldn't assume that open-source = gets better | 21:32 |
| timeless | do you want handwriting recognition or just a keyboard map? | 21:32 |
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| mgedmin | I assume that's because neither my primary nor secondary input language uses them | 21:32 |
| jjazz | ajturner: open source isn't always better, but it's always the chance for better | 21:32 |
| manaPirat | *lol* this URL is good :D | 21:32 |
| ajturner | the best option is usually to open the app for extensions | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | (I chose English and Danish in the handwriting properties, because Lithuanian just ain't there) | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | timeless: both | 21:33 |
| timeless | mgedmin: seriously, pay attn, what precisely do you need | 21:33 |
| ajturner | so core stable functionality is there, and very easy for any/all users to extend - like new input methods | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | timeless: when I draw any of ąčęėįšųūž in the handwriting area, I want that letter to appear in the relevant text box | 21:34 |
| |tbb| | does anyone know how much effort does it take to port macchanger to n770? | 21:34 |
| mgedmin | also, I would like to have a custom virtual keyboard map with these letters on the first screen, and not hidden in a tab | 21:34 |
| mgedmin | but I am not sure it is possible to cram that many additional letters on screen, so handwriting would perhaps be enough | 21:35 |
| timeless | don't forget that shift is available | 21:35 |
| timeless | i'm guessing that being able to munge a keylayout for the osk would be much easier than handwriting recognition | 21:35 |
| timeless | also keep in mind that you could probably be /very/ evil about your use of dead keys if necesssary | 21:36 |
| mgedmin | the thing that interests me is that if I open the handwriting teaching app, I see a lot of accented letters there in the Western section, including all Lithuanian letters | 21:37 |
| mgedmin | yet when I draw them in the vkb, they are not recognized | 21:37 |
| timeless | can you give me steps to reach one of those keys in teach? | 21:37 |
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| mgedmin | sorry, my memory tricked me | 21:38 |
| mgedmin | I do not see "ą" in the list of Western characters | 21:39 |
| mgedmin | but if I go to Shortcuts (Western) and try to draw a shape like "ą" | 21:39 |
| timeless | do me a favor and give me specific steps | 21:39 |
| timeless | and don't include pasting chars into this irc session | 21:39 |
| timeless | i can't see them | 21:39 |
| mgedmin | I get this error popup: "Entered shape is too similar to the already defined character ą" | 21:39 |
| timeless | you're free to provide unicode character references | 21:39 |
| timeless | or urls to them | 21:39 |
| manaPirat | well .. i think my decission is made .. | 21:39 |
| timeless | heh | 21:39 |
| * manaPirat will wait for the OpenMoko phone | 21:39 | |
| mgedmin | ą is U+0105 | 21:40 |
| ssvb | tko: hmm, still no luck, gdb from scratchbox refused to load core file: 'GDB can't read core files on this machine' :( | 21:40 |
| roope | handwriting works so that each language recognizes a different set of characters. | 21:40 |
| roope | So that accented characters that are not in the scope of that language are not then a part of the HWR set of that language. | 21:41 |
| timeless | so far it looks like you'll get to hack an xml file | 21:41 |
| mgedmin | cool | 21:41 |
| * timeless frowns | 21:42 | |
| timeless | you're sure the code you need isn't available? | 21:42 |
| timeless | the code i'm reading implies it would be | 21:42 |
| timeless | libimlayouts-generator 1.5.6-1 is listed in various places on the web | 21:43 |
| * mgedmin wonders what timeless meant by "code" in this context... source code or a unicode codepoint? | 21:44 | |
| |tbb| | timeless could u port macchanger to n770? | 21:45 |
| timeless | i have work to do | 21:45 |
| timeless | so, no, i can't randomly port apps i have on interest it | 21:45 |
| timeless | s/it$/in | 21:45 |
| * timeless frowns | 21:46 | |
| timeless | lemme find someone who knows how to actually work apt | 21:46 |
| * timeless uses scripts | 21:46 | |
| |tbb| | i was just asking, asking doesnt cost anything | 21:46 |
| * mgedmin wonders what libimlayouts-generator is | 21:46 | |
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| * mgedmin looks for xml files with language descriptions, but finds only a binary /usr/share/simpliwrite/ARTHWR_full_little.data blog so far | 21:49 | |
| timeless | afaik it's what you want | 21:49 |
| |tbb| | timeless does it take long to port a app like macchanger? | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | |tbb|: what does that app do? | 21:50 |
| timeless | i maintain ports, i don't port things | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | if it is a simple command-line app that is already packaged for Debian/Ubuntu, I can try to build an armel package for it | 21:50 |
| |tbb| | it does change ur macadress | 21:51 |
| |tbb| | its a commandline app | 21:51 |
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| timeless | hrm | 21:51 |
| timeless | there's a doc for this | 21:51 |
| timeless | mgedmin: do you have an email address? | 21:51 |
| mgedmin | timeless: marius@pov.lt | 21:52 |
| * mgedmin found /usr/share/libimlayouts/fileformat.html in his scratchbox | 21:52 | |
| timeless | yeah, that's what i'm reading | 21:52 |
| * timeless stops reading it | 21:53 | |
| mgedmin | does the handwriting engine pick up a set of acceptable characters from a .vkb file? | 21:53 |
| timeless | um | 21:53 |
| mgedmin | or are these just for the virtual on-screen keyboard? | 21:53 |
| |tbb| | mgedmin: http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/macchanger/?M=A | 21:53 |
| timeless | not sure how to figure that out offhand, gimme a bit | 21:53 |
| * timeless goes to figure out what simpliwrite is | 21:54 | |
| timeless | it has help! | 21:55 |
| timeless | ok, simpliwrite looks like it's harder | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | |tbb|: http://mg.pov.lt/770/dists/mistral/experimental/binary-armel/macchanger_1.5.0-1_armel.deb | 21:57 |
| timeless | lithuanian you said? | 21:57 |
| mgedmin | I've just built it, I haven't tested it | 21:57 |
| mgedmin | timeless: yes | 21:57 |
| timeless | not sure how this works, but it might work | 21:57 |
| timeless | i certainly don't see any list saying "this will not work with lithuanian" :) | 21:58 |
| mgedmin | heh | 21:58 |
| mgedmin | thank you for all the help | 21:58 |
| mgedmin | um, I'd appreciate a pointer to some sample xml files for gen-vkb | 21:59 |
| roope | handwriting has separate files than vkb. | 21:59 |
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| timeless | i can't figure out if the blob is something that is custom tailored to some list of supported inputs | 22:01 |
| timeless | it's quite possible it is | 22:01 |
| timeless | if it is, you'd probably need to figure out who or what simpliwrite is and buy a new blob :) | 22:01 |
| timeless | www.nuance.com/handwriting/simpliwrite/ | 22:02 |
| timeless | does 'a result in a single character when you try it? | 22:09 |
| roope | btw, for some accented characters, for instance ä, it uses the base pattern for a and then just puts ¨ there. So you can't train ä, but you can train a. | 22:10 |
| roope | e gives é, è, ë etc. | 22:10 |
| mgedmin | 'a results in either a or 'a, depending on the distance between ' and a | 22:11 |
| * timeless grumbles at having to specify the language for input | 22:11 | |
| timeless | actually, the recognition is fairly good imo | 22:11 |
| roope | It tries to optimize recognition by decreasing thje amount of possible candidates. | 22:11 |
| roope | So that if you're writing finnish it doesn't even try to match against some weird patterns. | 22:12 |
| mgedmin | which is a good idea | 22:12 |
| roope | For 2006 there's the ... hwr training, if you remove a large amount of unsuitable patterns, the end result is quite good actually. | 22:12 |
| timeless | ok, let's see what we have | 22:13 |
| timeless | ok, looks like the rest of this stuff isn't gpl :( | 22:13 |
| roope | Yeah, it's the engine as shown in the link, which is a commercial product. | 22:13 |
| timeless | actually | 22:13 |
| timeless | you're in luck, i think | 22:13 |
| timeless | lemme see if i can verify | 22:14 |
| mgedmin | it wouldn't be too bad if the language definition files were open | 22:14 |
| timeless | hrm, you're mostly in luck | 22:14 |
| timeless | i just don't know what vcs this stuff comes from | 22:14 |
| timeless | roope: is it safe to say that none of these files have changed since 2005? | 22:15 |
| timeless | mgedmin: it wouldn't help | 22:15 |
| timeless | the app hard codes mappings | 22:15 |
| timeless | you're either lucky or unlucky | 22:15 |
| timeless | in this case, i believe you're lucky | 22:15 |
| * mgedmin wonders what that means | 22:15 | |
| roope | the language files, yes I guess. | 22:16 |
| timeless | either the app hard codes your language, or it doesn't | 22:16 |
| timeless | well, no, the mappings | 22:16 |
| roope | HWR patterns? | 22:16 |
| timeless | if the language file doesn't exist, it could be added | 22:16 |
| timeless | if the mapping from language name to file isn't in a configurable place | 22:16 |
| timeless | then you need to reinvent a binary application | 22:16 |
| timeless | which is much harder than a data file | 22:16 |
| |tbb| | could it be that i cant reboot my device while chargin? | 22:19 |
| timeless | um, i do that all the time | 22:20 |
| mgedmin | |tbb|: you can kinda reboot it, but not completely | 22:20 |
| mgedmin | most of the processes remain running in the background | 22:20 |
| mgedmin | if you want a full reboot, you have to unplug it | 22:20 |
| |tbb| | i cant start the application manager any more | 22:21 |
| timeless | hrm | 22:21 |
| timeless | does gconf have human readable descriptions for its prefs? | 22:21 |
| mgedmin | gconf schemas usually have them | 22:21 |
| timeless | because if it does, i bet you could figure out how to pick the language you want | 22:21 |
| mgedmin | somewhere deep in /var/lib/gconf | 22:21 |
| timeless | yeah, i'd suggest you grovel through the schemas then | 22:21 |
| mgedmin | /etc/gconf/schemas/hildon_inputmethod.schemas ? | 22:22 |
| timeless | roope: is it ok if i give a hint? | 22:22 |
| timeless | sounds likely | 22:22 |
| * timeless tries to figure out how these things are sorted | 22:24 | |
| * mgedmin wishes he knew how to use gconftool | 22:24 | |
| * timeless doesn't :) | 22:24 | |
| mgedmin | do you think I can add lt_LT to /apps/osso/inputmethod/available_languages and it will start working? | 22:27 |
| mgedmin | or should I set the secondary_language? | 22:27 |
| timeless | i wouldn't try messing w/ primary if i risked not being able to use the machine again by doing so :) | 22:27 |
| * mgedmin discovers gconftool-2 -a /apps/osso/inputmethod | 22:28 | |
| timeless | ok, at some point i suspect you're going to need a magic number | 22:30 |
| timeless | the magic number for today is it_IT+7 | 22:31 |
| mgedmin | only I do not see a place to put it | 22:31 |
| timeless | yeah, well, some people have problems :) | 22:31 |
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| timeless | what keys were you considering? | 22:31 |
| mgedmin | available_languages and secondary_language | 22:32 |
| timeless | keep in mind, that i've never been foolish enough to delve into gconf | 22:32 |
| timeless | hrm | 22:32 |
| * timeless wonders what available_languages looks like | 22:33 | |
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| roope | I was actually positively suprised by HWR when I tried it recently. It worked better than from the last time I remember using it. | 22:34 |
| * timeless too | 22:35 | |
| timeless | um, where's gconf? | 22:35 |
| mgedmin | if you log into a 770 and type that gconftool-2 command I wrote earlier, you will see the current values of all settings | 22:35 |
| mgedmin | they are stored in xml files under /var/lib/gconf/, but I do not know if you can edit them there | 22:35 |
| * mgedmin did gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/inputmethod/available_languages -t list --list-type string '[pt_BR,en_GB,fr_CA,it_IT,de_DE,fr_FR,es_ES,sv_SE,pt_PT,es_MX,en_US,el_GR,ru_RU,nl_NL,fi_FI,da_DK,no_NO,lt_LT]' | 22:36 | |
| * mgedmin did gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/inputmethod/secondary_language -t string 'lt_LT' | 22:36 | |
| timeless | personally not that ou need to, i'd reboot my device :) | 22:36 |
| mgedmin | I can now select lt_LT in the input method's Language menu, but none of the shapes I write are recognized | 22:36 |
| timeless | i'm certainly not going to stick a debugger up and follow the full code flow | 22:37 |
| mgedmin | there is certainly a mapping from locale names (en_GB) to something the handwriting engine uses | 22:37 |
| mgedmin | somewhere | 22:37 |
| timeless | can you possibly dump a full gconf tree into a pastebin? | 22:39 |
| timeless | i'm using a 770, and trying to find what i'm looking for w/ it is a bad use of my time | 22:39 |
| timeless | pastebin.mozilla.org is reasonably responsive | 22:39 |
| mgedmin | full XML dump? | 22:40 |
| mgedmin | of the /apps/osso subtree? | 22:41 |
| |tbb| | for what is this ? -> gconftool | 22:41 |
| timeless | yes | 22:41 |
| mgedmin | just a sec... I'd like to strip my account passwords from it | 22:42 |
| timeless | :) | 22:44 |
| timeless | ah | 22:44 |
| * timeless finds the next roadblock | 22:44 | |
| timeless | did you create a vkb file? | 22:45 |
| mgedmin | not yet | 22:45 |
| * timeless would suggest copying some random locale | 22:45 | |
| timeless | go for italian or russian | 22:45 |
| timeless | something you'll recognize | 22:46 |
| mgedmin | gladly, if I could find an xml file to copy | 22:46 |
| mgedmin | hmm ah, it would work with a binary one too | 22:46 |
| timeless | right, just steal an existing binary | 22:46 |
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| timeless | you need to get used to the way reverse engineering works | 22:46 |
| timeless | feed things you have that work to things you think will use them | 22:46 |
| timeless | then corrupt the data as needed | 22:46 |
| timeless | although my guess is that the open tool we mentioned earlier will solve half that problem | 22:47 |
| timeless | (kinda silly that the xml files aren't open though...) | 22:47 |
| mgedmin | an interesting observation: if I select lt_LT as the language from the popup keyboard menu, then the Input method submenu shows both keyboard and handwriting options as disabled | 22:47 |
| timeless | it would | 22:47 |
| mgedmin | perhaps I should compile a system loale? | 22:48 |
| timeless | it's not going to let you use them because it didn't find the vkb | 22:48 |
| mgedmin | locale | 22:48 |
| mgedmin | I created a lt_LT.vkb -> ru_RU.vkb symlink | 22:48 |
| mgedmin | maybe I need to reboot again | 22:48 |
| timeless | ok | 22:48 |
| * timeless reads carefuly | 22:48 | |
| timeless | sorry | 22:48 |
| timeless | hrm | 22:49 |
| timeless | actually, there are some regulations about reverse engineering | 22:49 |
| timeless | i hope you're not violating the terms of the license | 22:49 |
| timeless | you did read the nokia license, right? :) | 22:49 |
| mgedmin | uhh | 22:50 |
| * timeless likes "You may not ... tranlsate ... the Software ... except as expressly provided in this Agreement." | 22:50 | |
| mgedmin | I think the laws here explicitly allow reverse engineering for interoperability purposes | 22:50 |
| timeless | what interop purpose do you have? | 22:51 |
| mgedmin | myself interoperating with the device? | 22:51 |
| mgedmin | :) | 22:51 |
| timeless | does that count? | 22:51 |
| timeless | (seriously) | 22:51 |
| mgedmin | IANAL | 22:51 |
| mgedmin | can poking around in gconf be called reverse engineering? | 22:51 |
| * timeless frowns | 22:51 | |
| timeless | nah, but munging the vkb file probably would be | 22:52 |
| timeless | thankfully using the publicly available generator shouldn't be | 22:52 |
| timeless | and since you have the source for that, it's pretty safe to say that you're fine as long as you just use it | 22:52 |
| mgedmin | maybe I should just file a wishlist bug | 22:52 |
| timeless | my guess is that you'll be stuck tryiing to generate an equivalent of the english keymap | 22:52 |
| timeless | you should be able to do that and once you've done that you can generate a more useful map | 22:52 |
| timeless | that /should/ be ok, but IANAL either | 22:53 |
| timeless | feel free to wishlist, but unless you're offering $$$$$$ and users, i don't expect it to go somewhere | 22:53 |
| timeless | hrm, make that EUR not USD :) | 22:53 |
| * timeless can't figure out this license at all | 22:54 | |
| timeless | it seems to be talking about things that don't make sense | 22:54 |
| timeless | anyway, i think you should be able to figure out how to write an xml file | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | actually, about that vkb generator: its documentation documents the binary file format, but not the input XML schema | 22:55 |
| timeless | the source you have shouldn't be that bad | 22:56 |
| timeless | yeah, i saw that | 22:56 |
| mgedmin | which is a bit strange | 22:56 |
| timeless | yeah, that was my thought at first | 22:56 |
| timeless | anyway, it looks simple enough | 22:57 |
| mgedmin | not without documentation/samples/sources | 22:58 |
| mgedmin | libimlayouts-generator is in the non-free section | 22:58 |
| mgedmin | anyway, big thanks for the support | 22:58 |
| mgedmin | it's time for me to go home | 22:59 |
| timeless | yeah, i'm still trying to figure out why it's in nonfree | 22:59 |
| timeless | oh, cute | 22:59 |
| * timeless grumbles | 22:59 | |
| * timeless will bother a lawyer | 22:59 | |
| * timeless frowns | 23:00 | |
| timeless | what in the world? | 23:00 |
| timeless | yeah, time for me to bother a laywer | 23:00 |
| mgedmin | (and that concludes the demonstration of the inferiority of closed-source software) | 23:01 |
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| * timeless shrugs | 23:01 | |
| timeless | you don't want to read the code | 23:01 |
| timeless | actually, in this case it might be moderately pretty | 23:01 |
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| tbb | which browser do u prefer on ur n770 | 23:36 |
| timeless | ssh/screen/links | 23:37 |
| timeless | it's really fast and low bandwidth :) | 23:37 |
| tbb | ? confused | 23:42 |
| timeless | what's confusing? | 23:43 |
| tbb | dont know what u mean with ssh/screen/links | 23:44 |
| timeless | links is a web browser, screen is a way to run an app and recover its console from another session | 23:45 |
| timeless | ssh is a way to talk to remote computers | 23:45 |
| timeless | personally i don't like web content (flash, java, ...), and i usually don't care about images | 23:46 |
| timeless | so why not use a text browser? | 23:46 |
| tbb | nice never heard of links, lynx is what i like also :) | 23:47 |
| tbb | how to use screen? | 23:48 |
| timeless | screen gives help when you start it | 23:50 |
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| tbb | dont know fr what screen is usefull | 23:57 |
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