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| air | any of you good with xlib? | 13:53 |
|---|---|---|
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| air | sometimes after drawing to the window and flushing, the window doesn't update for about 10-20 seconds and the device has no load | 13:54 |
| air | and after flushing it stays in select() so nothing in the app is causing it to finally update | 13:56 |
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| air | doesn't happen at all when the device is on the charger | 14:32 |
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| qknight | my n900 has full ram usage and is swapping after reboot. i don't have any idea why that happens lately | 15:32 |
| qknight | how much ram should be used on idle? (i'm using imap in the background) but i don't think that imap is the problem | 15:32 |
| air | run top in the terminal | 15:33 |
| air | does it show a program using a lot of ram? | 15:34 |
| ShadowJK | memory use is hard to measure | 15:36 |
| ShadowJK | Immediately after reboot mine sits at 0M swap use, but it'll easily be at 50-60M a minute after boot if I have, for example, python based widgets | 15:36 |
| ShadowJK | 100-150M seems to be normal for me in use | 15:37 |
| air | http://qzx.com/asui/_screenshots/process_viewer-portrait.png -- does n900 have anything like that? | 15:38 |
| qknight | air: htop, top | 15:39 |
| air | top on the n810 doesnt show rss | 15:40 |
| qknight | air: http://dpaste.com/257272/ my memory usage (using htop and konsole export) | 15:41 |
| qknight | so you are telling me that swapping is normal | 15:42 |
| qknight | good to know | 15:42 |
| qknight | thanks | 15:42 |
| air | swapping is never normal | 15:42 |
| air | cat /proc/meminfo |head -n 4 | 15:44 |
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| air | how much buffer and cache are you using? | 15:45 |
| qknight | http://dpaste.com/257274/ | 15:45 |
| air | odd | 15:46 |
| air | you have 90meg free | 15:46 |
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| qknight | air: i don't know why that is | 15:49 |
| SpeedEvil | After 12h up, I have 35M use | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | of sap | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | swap | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually - this is mostly revooted, and not used at all 12h ago | 15:54 |
| qknight | funny. i get a lot of swap usage right after a few minutes of inactivity | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | If you use something heavy like a browser, then it will push lots of rarely used stuff out. | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | This will not get paged back in until it's used. | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | And much isn't used | 16:00 |
| ShadowJK | And it can exist both in RAM and swap at the same time. | 16:09 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 16:10 |
| ShadowJK | Which is why swap "use" number has a tendency to never go down much :) | 16:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Tehre is no pressing reason to 'delete' a on-disk copy of a page that's been paged out and back in, if it has not changed | 16:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Not deleting it means that if needed, that memory can be freed eimmediately, without any issue. | 16:11 |
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| qknight | SpeedEvil, ShadowJK: i did not know that some stuff can exist on both swap/ram at the same time. but your arguments make sense | 17:08 |
| qknight | right now i'm developing torrent support for the evopedia application | 17:08 |
| qknight | -- different problem | 17:08 |
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| qknight | and it seems that something makes the gui very slow. my download runs at 80-300kb/s (torrent) one peer one seed | 17:09 |
| qknight | it is probably the IO which makes it slow but i can't think of how i could change that | 17:09 |
| qknight | does the n900 support io-niceness in some way? | 17:09 |
| ShadowJK | I think rtorrent uses madvise (or fadvise?) to tell kernel to drop parts of the files from ram | 17:11 |
| ShadowJK | so the file data doesn't push out applications | 17:11 |
| tet | Hi ! I'am currently having a lot of problems the python app i'am making for the N900. It uses a configuration file located in /usr/share/myfolder/ which is owned by *root*. But my python app is apparently runned by *user* so it can't write any configuration file one the previous folder ... Any help would be much appreciated :) | 17:15 |
| ShadowJK | I think it's normal to use /home/user/.appname as config file | 17:16 |
| tet | oh ok | 17:18 |
| tet | So i should relocate all my configuration files in /home/user/.myapp | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | /usr is generally read-only, it's NOT supposed to have any config files. Esp config files | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the standard | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | except for system (root) daemons and the like, which usually have their config in /etc | 17:19 |
| tet | ok. Perfectly clear answer. | 17:20 |
| ShadowJK | it's also normal for the app to write a new config file with default settings if it's missing :) | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | usr means unix sharable resources, it might even reside on a different machine and get NFS mounted | 17:20 |
| tet | I'am dumb. Did all the testing as root without noticing this problem earlier in devlopment now i need to correct all references and relocate all those files :'( | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | extremely rarely in the case of N900 of course ;) | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't change the basic rationale | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | tet, how many files is this? | 17:21 |
| tet | ShadowJK, Just 6 :) but i'am kind of lazy :) | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | Then a /home/user/.myapplication/ folder for storing configs | 17:22 |
| tet | always thought /usr was for /user :) i was so wrong :/ | 17:23 |
| ShadowJK | There's also the multi-user heritage. On grown-up systems that might have more than one user, it'd be kinda annoying if one user's settings overwrote the other user's settings | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | so, executables, icons and whatnot go to /usr(/bin) (and optified from there to /opt/... and symlinked) while config data usually lives in the user's home directory, just because there might be more than one users each with his own config | 17:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol, ShadowJK was faster than me, once more :-D | 17:24 |
| ShadowJK | It's probably okay to place default configuration files into /usr/share/appname/ if you don't want to put them inside the application itself, and have the app copy from there if they're missing in /home/user/.appname/ | 17:25 |
| tet | At first i was thinking that placing my conf file in a root owned folder was a good idea, because that config file contains passwords | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, that's nice | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | (copy config from /usr to home) | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | (passwords) if the user has to know the passwords, then there's no use in placing them into root domain | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no sense in hiding passwords from user which he had to enter before and thus already is supposed to know | 17:27 |
| tet | Well if someone take my terminal and browse through the /home folder he can read my password. Of course the answer would be to encrypt them i guess ... but i don't really have time to look into that | 17:27 |
| ShadowJK | ever tried doing "ls -la" instead of the usual ls? :) | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | if somebody has access to your machine as user, then how would you tell he's not entitled to do that | 17:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tet: quite a number of apps store passwords in a obfuscated manner (like rot13) but really that's nonsense | 17:29 |
| tet | In a business company a phone can be re-assigned to another user at barely any moment. Without being completly wiped. So i didn't wanted passwords to remain easily readable ... | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's absolutely irrelevant if they are easily or difficultly readable. They are readable no matter what | 17:30 |
| ShadowJK | Well that's kinda silly considering there'll be passwords stored for the email and passwords stored for the browser too.. and cookies | 17:30 |
| ShadowJK | And whether you place them in /usr or in /home as a "hidden" file or directory, they're still on the device either way, and your app knows how to access them | 17:31 |
| tet | True. Anyway nevermind i'am perfectly aware that as long as somebody can use your terminal anything can't be considered as safe anymore. | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you want safe passwords, use wallet or pw-vault or a similar program, which holds all your passwords and you have to unlock it, either once after boot or every 30 min or for each app's first access after boot or whatever. Unlock by entering your master password which is NOT stored anywhere on the device | 17:33 |
| tet | Ok. I won't have time to do that... i will just let that config here and hope we don't have too curious users... | 17:35 |
| ShadowJK | maemo is a single-user system :/ | 17:36 |
| ShadowJK | /home/user/.file wont actually show up in file manager or a normal ls, by the way | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, not really | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually maemo has several users | 17:36 |
| tet | Well if someone is searching for a password file i'am pretty sure he will try a ls -al :) | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | root, user, sync, hald, messagebus | 17:38 |
| ShadowJK | but just one gui user | 17:38 |
| ShadowJK | just one /home/user | 17:38 |
| ShadowJK | same for everyone using the same device | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's somewhat correct - usually | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | as we got no xdm or similar authentication, there'll be no different GUI users usually | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I pondered several times to fix that | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | main obstacle being the string "user" hardcoded in several maemo closed source apps | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | even more silly than doing things like " if $(id|grep root >/dev/null)..." | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's some reason to assume the root user on a unix system has name "root" (though you probably could name him "admin" as well), but there's no sense whatsoever in assuming the user of a system has a particular name like e.g "user" | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the users home directory is $HOME every time, never /home/user | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | so yes, in that respect maemo is a 'single user system', just because Nokia didn't bother about multiuser and used nasty botches in their code | 17:48 |
| qknight | just had a download running and a sipgate phone call was coming up. next the torrent client reduced it's bandwidth (can that be?). does maemo make such QoS stuff? will have to test this later | 17:51 |
| tet | I maked a Debian package for my python app. It contains the common scripts like "preinst" "postinst" etc. When i update a package, how does it works ? It removes the previous packages and go through all uninstall scripts ? | 17:58 |
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| piggz | hi, im attempting to build for maemo agains kdelibs from http://files.kolab.org/local/maemo/dists/fremantle/extras/binary-i386 ...... cmake cannot find FindKDE4Internal.cmake ..... any ideas? | 22:29 |
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| malloc64 | Does anyone know where to find the desktop SDK virtual image? | 23:47 |
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