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| Venemo | Hi | 09:28 |
|---|---|---|
| Venemo | could someone help me with taming D-Bus? | 09:29 |
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| macbeth8c | hi does anybody know how to use application to block Maemo OS? | 14:36 |
| macbeth8c | possibly during boot to run the app & sometimes block the system | 14:37 |
| Venemo | what do you mean by "block the system"? | 14:40 |
| macbeth8c | I am writing the face recognition authorization app :) | 14:40 |
| macbeth8c | so if the face is rejected I need to blick the system with the pin code | 14:41 |
| macbeth8c | *block | 14:41 |
| Venemo | oh | 14:43 |
| Venemo | well, honestly, I don't know that much about the system | 14:43 |
| macbeth8c | Venemo, do you know how to run the app on startup? | 14:43 |
| Venemo | yes | 14:43 |
| Venemo | http://blog.exys.org/entries/2010/Maemo5_Lastfm_Widget_With_Qt.html | 14:44 |
| Venemo | check the bottom of the page | 14:44 |
| macbeth8c | ok good | 14:44 |
| macbeth8c | I bookmarked it | 14:45 |
| macbeth8c | that's something useful however such application can be easily closed? | 14:46 |
| macbeth8c | is it bash script? can I add some logic to the script? | 14:46 |
| Venemo | look around in your /etc/event.d/ folder and its contents | 14:47 |
| Venemo | all the daemons are starting there | 14:48 |
| Venemo | I don't know a thing about bash or shell scrips, sorry :( | 14:48 |
| Venemo | The N900 is my first Linux experience that lasted longer than 5 minutes :) | 14:48 |
| macbeth8c | Venemo, best way is to hacked the OS so that it will extend standard pin question | 14:50 |
| macbeth8c | *hack | 14:51 |
| macbeth8c | not sure if we can make a pin-check from the app | 14:51 |
| macbeth8c | are the maemo sources available, Venemo ? | 14:52 |
| macbeth8c | not fully probably | 14:53 |
| Venemo | well, parts of it | 14:55 |
| Venemo | most of the OS is open | 14:55 |
| Venemo | the core drivers and Nokia apps are usually closed | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | /etc/X11/X11sesson.post | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | is the dir that all the user-X applications are started in | 14:57 |
| macbeth8c | dont have it on my scratchbox | 14:58 |
| macbeth8c | maybe its only on device | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia-N900-02-8:/etc/X11/Xsession.post# ls | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | 04hildon-welcome-wait 32mafw | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | 15hildon-status-menu 32mafw-gst-renderer | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | The scripts are caled in numeric order | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | So if you add something before 04 - then it comes up before all of the stuff, and you get a basically blank X server | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | at 80, you get it completed all initialisation | 15:01 |
| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, what is the type of files in the catalogue? | 15:01 |
| macbeth8c | file 32mafw | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | shell scripts | 15:01 |
| macbeth8c | ok I see so its like a startup sequence? | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 15:02 |
| lcuk | Venemo, :) "first linux experience" thats common for a lot of people, theres something different about having this little dedicated linux box than booting up a live cd | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | It starts with bringing up hildon-status-menu - then it runs all od the others in teh right order - as some may require earlier bits to work to come up peoprley | 15:03 |
| macbeth8c | so... can I use all the OS resources & libraries at 01? | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | macbeth8c: That's a multi-part question really. | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | macbeth8c: OS can mean many things. | 15:03 |
| macbeth8c | installed libraries & qt | 15:04 |
| SpeedEvil | At '00' - the X server has started, but you have none of the services that usually run as user. for example, tracker. | 15:04 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 15:04 |
| macbeth8c | interesting :-) | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | X server is the graphical program that all display happens through. | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Before that you see only the moving dots. | 15:05 |
| macbeth8c | ok SpeedEvil is the user always allowed to close the window of the app? | 15:06 |
| * lcuk had a pic with a wolf with red eyes instead of dots | 15:06 | |
| SpeedEvil | When there is no window manager, the first application effectively has that role. | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | It is the application which would manage closing programs. | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | So, no. | 15:07 |
| macbeth8c | what is the sequence number of window manager? | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | I think it's hildon-desktop | 15:09 |
| Venemo | lcuk - yes, that is true :) | 15:09 |
| macbeth8c | so 04 | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | There is no specific number | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | they are just called in numeric order | 15:09 |
| Venemo | lcuk - add to that the fact that I'm a Windows developer by my work, so I can't use Linux for my general OS needs :( | 15:09 |
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| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil why? | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System_protocols_and_architecture | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | because | 15:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | That happened to be the way the developer of the bit that runs the script did things | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | It allows easy reordering, and replacement of bits, as well as insertion | 15:11 |
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| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, if you had the task of placing the authentication app in the OS like me, how would you do it? | 15:12 |
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| lcuk | Venemo, :) its a position a lot of people are in, hope you are enjoying your n900 :) | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | You basically want to ask the user for PIN on boot? | 15:14 |
| Venemo | lcuk - yes, it gives me a very good impression of how life goes outside MS's reach :P | 15:15 |
| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, yes, if the face recognition task fails | 15:15 |
| Venemo | lcuk - also, developing for it is like back in the old times, exploring everything again :) | 15:16 |
| macbeth8c | oh and I must be able to use camera resource of course | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | macbeth8c: err - face recognition? | 15:16 |
| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, yea :) | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand it - if you put an application into '01' or so int hat sequence - and it does not exit - the boot will stall. | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | And the user cannot kill it. | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | This unfortunately isn't quite clean. | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | As for example, there would be no clean way to power off from this state | 15:18 |
| macbeth8c | yea.. | 15:18 |
| SpeedEvil | The 'right' way would be to do more or less the 'standard' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_display_manager_%28program_type%29 solution for multi-user devices. | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Where you have a nice lock if the user wanders away, and also an initial login screen when they have to login. | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | This is significantly harder though | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Isn't there a way to get a PIN on boot already? | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | If so - work out where that program is, and replace. | 15:20 |
| macbeth8c | yea it would be nice :) | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Also multiple users would be nice. | 15:21 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - it might be nice to be able to give your phone to someone in 'guest' or 'guest-offline' - where they get a blank user, with all the applications, but no access to the normal users files | 15:21 |
| SpeedEvil | That again is another step up in effort alas. | 15:22 |
| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, that application is to be a protection against theft | 15:23 |
| Venemo | well, the N900 asks for PIN on boot, but anyone can skip it and use its non-phone functionality | 15:23 |
| Venemo | also, anyone can access any data on it without any password | 15:23 |
| macbeth8c | it will be probably once per day/week the application will start and scan the face | 15:23 |
| Venemo | machbeth8c: a simple "Enter password" dialog would suffice for me | 15:24 |
| SpeedEvil | If face recognition works, there is little resaon not to use it for unlock | 15:24 |
| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, yea it works already , I am working on it some time, just I need to placed in the right place and polish | 15:26 |
| Venemo | huh | 15:30 |
| Venemo | awesome | 15:30 |
| macbeth8c | its my term project at school :D | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | have you done any tests on false positive/negative ratges? | 15:31 |
| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, not yet but I will | 15:31 |
| macbeth8c | I also want to do an extension to align the pic with the coordinates from gravity sensors | 15:33 |
| macbeth8c | it will decrease false negative | 15:33 |
| macbeth8c | too bad N900 doesnt have 3D sensors :D | 15:34 |
| SpeedEvil | It can easily sense down | 15:34 |
| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, how? | 15:34 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Accelerometer | 15:35 |
| macbeth8c | bookmarked | 15:35 |
| macbeth8c | no example code?? | 15:36 |
| macbeth8c | ok got it | 15:36 |
| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, do you know what are the readings in scratchbox of it? ;-) | 15:37 |
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| macbeth8c | DocScrutinizer, hi :) | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi | 16:57 |
| macbeth8c | I was able to connect it | 16:57 |
| macbeth8c | yday | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | fine | 16:58 |
| macbeth8c | yea | 16:58 |
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| kW_ | Hello! Has anyone experience putting Maemo 5 PR 1.2 completely on a eMMC partition? | 20:05 |
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| zgoldberg | Anybody around to do some quick application QA and provide a thumbs up (or down) for Zhaan? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/zhaan/0.5-1/ | 20:19 |
| SpeedEvil | I have it on my stack | 20:26 |
| Venemo | what is Zhaan? | 20:36 |
| zgoldberg | A UPnP Control point | 20:36 |
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| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, what are the differences between Maemo 5 and previous versions of the OS? | 21:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | not really looked at past versions | 21:37 |
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| lirtex | How can I display a pop-up message in maemo (n900), like those yellow "notes" that are used by default in the n900? | 21:56 |
| w00t_ | lirtex: read up on libnotify | 22:00 |
| frals | or libhildonnotify me thinks? | 22:01 |
| w00t_ | Venemo will likely be very helpful for you | 22:01 |
| w00t_ | (as he's been working on those all day) | 22:01 |
| Venemo | I answered on qt-maemo already :) | 22:11 |
| w00t_ | k | 22:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | macbeth8c: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/06/13/1456251/Lenovo-Trying-Face-Recognition-For-Logins-On-New-Laptops | 22:56 |
| kW_ | Hello! How can I reset the N900 (e.g. a forced reboot)? | 23:01 |
| SpeedEvil | hold the powerbutton down for 10s | 23:02 |
| SpeedEvil | that should always reboot it | 23:02 |
| Venemo | sudo gainroot | 23:02 |
| Venemo | reboot | 23:02 |
| SpeedEvil | if it does not, remove the battery | 23:02 |
| kW_ | well, it does not reboot after 10 seconds (note that no proper OS is running at this stage on my N900) | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | remove the battery, or allow it to run down | 23:04 |
| kW_ | well, removing the battery works... but is there anything "nicer" to reboot or poweroff the machine? | 23:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Setup a watchdog to watch the powerbutton | 23:04 |
| kW_ | well, I just disabled the watchdogs ;-) because they stop my machine prematurely... | 23:05 |
| macbeth8c | kW_, use console to shut down | 23:06 |
| macbeth8c | cmd root and shutdown | 23:07 |
| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, thanks for the story | 23:08 |
| kW_ | macbeth8c: well, at this stage, I do not have network and thus no ssh... and also no console | 23:09 |
| kW_ | (it is at the early booting stage) | 23:09 |
| macbeth8c | kW_, you can try the kill sequence | 23:09 |
| macbeth8c | kW_, there is a special sequence of the keys to press to shut down linux machine | 23:10 |
| macbeth8c | it works on regular linux , not sure about maemo | 23:10 |
| kW_ | well, it is Alt+SysRq+B | 23:10 |
| kW_ | I think that the N900 lacks some keys for this... ;-) | 23:11 |
| macbeth8c | kW_, so what do you have? | 23:14 |
| macbeth8c | :D | 23:14 |
| macbeth8c | if it is early boot stage you can easily take off the battery | 23:16 |
| macbeth8c | there are no disks to damage... | 23:16 |
| kW_ | macbeth8c: well, I'm more worried about mechanical wear and tear | 23:17 |
| macbeth8c | do you need to do it often? | 23:17 |
| kW_ | well, until I got the software right :-) | 23:19 |
| macbeth8c | dont want to discourage you but that may be infinity long ;-) | 23:20 |
| macbeth8c | "there is one more bug" :D | 23:21 |
| kW_ | well, this is why I ask ;-) | 23:21 |
| macbeth8c | kW_, run without battery only on the adapter | 23:22 |
| macbeth8c | and see what happens | 23:22 |
| macbeth8c | that may enable you to switch it of from outside instead of manipulating the battery | 23:23 |
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| macbeth8c | *of/off | 23:24 |
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| kW_ | macbeth8c: well, running it from an ordinary usb cable connected to a USB host does not seem to work | 23:27 |
| macbeth8c | yep, try the regular adapter, the power on higher rate of energy | 23:28 |
| macbeth8c | USB is less rate | 23:28 |
| Venemo | well, I don't wanna be rude | 23:28 |
| Venemo | but why is this in any way related to development? | 23:29 |
| macbeth8c | Venemo, it is | 23:29 |
| kW_ | is it possible to redirect the console to something like serial-over-USB? | 23:29 |
| kW_ | Venemo: well, when developing software which runs _very early_ in the boot process (and when actually developing the boot process itself...) | 23:29 |
| macbeth8c | kW_, may I ask you who do you setup this early run in the system? | 23:30 |
| macbeth8c | my question asked in the afternoon was about this thing | 23:31 |
| macbeth8c | ;-) | 23:31 |
| kW_ | macbeth8c: well, I want to run the N900 on a fully-encrypted root partition | 23:32 |
| kW_ | macbeth8c: for this to work, the user has to input the passphrase very early in the boot process | 23:32 |
| kW_ | macbeth8c: it seems to be actually easier than on the openmoko, because the n900 has a keyboard which you can actually read from simple shell scripts when booting | 23:32 |
| macbeth8c | kW_, Im developing face recognition based authentication | 23:32 |
| kW_ | that's cool :-) (however, I doubt that it can be prevented that somebody prints out some facebook-image and uses this for authentication... ;-)) | 23:33 |
| macbeth8c | kW_, true | 23:34 |
| macbeth8c | kW_, we use in our institute now 3D based authentication that is much more difficult to fool | 23:35 |
| macbeth8c | but mine is just a student project | 23:35 |
| SpeedEvil | macbeth8c: Two factor. | 23:36 |
| SpeedEvil | You display a sequence of words, and gurn at the appropriate ones. | 23:36 |
| macbeth8c | gurn? | 23:38 |
| Venemo | kW_ - sorry, I misunderstood then. | 23:39 |
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| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, you mean let user to choose the words? | 23:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean that the system authenticates the face | 23:47 |
| SpeedEvil | The system then uses movements of that face to confirm that the mind behind the face knows a secret | 23:47 |
| macbeth8c | SpeedEvil, this is what I try to avoid in Biometrics | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | As a simple example - you setup a rule 'always smile at star-trek char names' | 23:48 |
| macbeth8c | to remember secrets | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | In that case, I would approach it differently. | 23:48 |
| macbeth8c | there is also other project on the mobile platform if you are interested | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I would use iris recognition with the main camera. | 23:48 |
| macbeth8c | it uses accelerometer to record the patterns of walk/gait of the user | 23:49 |
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| lcuk | i would hack the main camera to flash when it detects an eye in close proximity ;) | 23:49 |
| macbeth8c | every creature has individual | 23:49 |
| macbeth8c | so if phone detects that the owner starts move in different patterns then unusual it blocks itself | 23:50 |
| lcuk | macbeth8c, something as simple as storing the phone in another pocket or with different orientation would really put a dampner on your da | 23:51 |
| lcuk | y | 23:51 |
| kW_ | cool | 23:51 |
| kW_ | move-based authentication | 23:51 |
| lcuk | plus, if you cant login the user would have to walk around the block again | 23:51 |
| macbeth8c | lcuk, then you need the secret code to unlock it | 23:52 |
| macbeth8c | :) | 23:52 |
| lcuk | not foretting of course different shoes | 23:52 |
| macbeth8c | its not like block forever | 23:52 |
| lcuk | sprained ankle | 23:52 |
| lcuk | pirate amputation | 23:52 |
| lcuk | donkey rides | 23:52 |
| lcuk | macbeth8c, when WILL it be useful then? | 23:53 |
| macbeth8c | lcuk, but it is worth research | 23:53 |
| lcuk | worth research is something distinct and repeatable | 23:53 |
| lcuk | ie - using the accelerometer buried into some footwear | 23:53 |
| lcuk | but basing it on a device in your pocket will be prone to lots and lots of noise | 23:53 |
| lcuk | having said that, "shake your phone to the beat in your head" | 23:54 |
| lcuk | would work | 23:54 |
| macbeth8c | lcuk, think of it in this way... | 23:54 |
| macbeth8c | you implement it to detect the walk pattern and if it detects unusual behavior it connects to the web and checks if the phone id is on the :stolen list: | 23:55 |
| macbeth8c | then if it is it blocks and gives the IP of the theft | 23:55 |
| lcuk | fuck, so i'd get phone calls just because i start running? | 23:56 |
| macbeth8c | no, you place the phone on the list in case it would be stolen | 23:56 |
| lcuk | huh, sure - so im walking down the street | 23:56 |
| lcuk | and meet my missus - so i link arms with her | 23:56 |
| lcuk | my gait will change | 23:56 |
| macbeth8c | lcuk, you can implement the change periods... like if the gait is changed over the long period of time | 23:57 |
| lcuk | would the system phone my emergency number ? | 23:57 |
| lcuk | how long? | 23:57 |
| macbeth8c | dont know.. not doing this project myself | 23:58 |
| lcuk | it might work for the Proclaimers | 23:59 |
| lcuk | (8) i would walk 500 miles (8) | 23:59 |
| lcuk | (8) and i would walk 500 more (*) | 23:59 |
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