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faenilZogG_lap1op, I mean, wtf??11:54
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ZogG_lap1opfaenil: no i mean WTF12:02
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: fucking nokias from 2000 can have different colour back doors and themes12:03
faenilZogG_lap1op, the fact that you expected much more doesn't mean that they promised much more12:03
ZogG_lap1opblackberry LE with just being red and written developer edition on back is ok as it's free12:03
faenilI expected a more exclusive other half myself12:03
ZogG_lap1oplook i was pissed i got STL100-112:03
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faenilbut that doesn't mean you can attack people like that12:04
ZogG_lap1opit's shitty, but i can't complain as IT's FREE12:04
ZogG_lap1oplet's say i would be angr at blackberry if i get it for paying a lot of money12:04
faenilman, you still paid normal price12:04
faenilbut you're getting an *additional* OH12:04
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faenilyou can be disappointed and say you expected more12:04
faenilbut not that way12:04
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: it's priced 5 $12:04
ZogG_lap1opthere is no headphones there12:04
faenilZogG_lap1op, where 5$?12:05
ZogG_lap1opno screen sticker or anything12:05
ZogG_lap1opit's plastic with text and small NFS12:05
faenilscreen sticker? what phones comes with a sticker which is not the factory one?12:05
ZogG_lap1opit's less than 5$ for each in scale of few thousand for company12:06
ZogG_lap1opdevice is over priced as it's first one12:06
faenilZogG_lap1op, did you notice that the only colour available at launch is white?12:06
ZogG_lap1opTOH is advertise as hw addition12:06
ZogG_lap1opmake it so12:06
faenilZogG_lap1op, if it was just the "5$" do you think there wouldn't have been more colours?12:06
ZogG_lap1opfor fuck sake, how do i attack people12:06
faenilZogG_lap1op, no12:06
faenilZogG_lap1op, on the opposite, TOH on website is just advertised as software12:06
ZogG_lap1opthere is no sw either12:07
faenil(and on most reviews as well)12:07
ZogG_lap1opif i get extra preview app or something it would be cool12:07
faenilsoftware as in software-extension, ambiance or whatever that can be12:07
ZogG_lap1opbut only fucking theme?12:07
ZogG_lap1opmaaaan12:07
faenilZogG_lap1op, man, I said I agree with that12:07
faenilI was expecting more myself12:07
ZogG_lap1opyou know i'm not asking for hw keyboard or camera there12:07
faenilbut the way you attack is too strong12:07
ZogG_lap1opall i asked fucking attenton12:08
ZogG_lap1opsomething interesting12:08
ZogG_lap1opunlike like they say it12:08
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: so if i think they making something wrong and pointing it out is attacking?12:08
faenilZogG_lap1op, no, it's the way you point it out12:09
ZogG_lap1opwhy everyone so affraid of me telling bad things and making bad advertisment for jolla? all i do is say the fucking facts12:09
faenilZogG_lap1op, you have the right to be disappointed and to tell them12:09
faenilZogG_lap1op, yes but you do it like they OWE you the moon12:09
ZogG_lap1opit's just colour and theme and it's nothing special for TOH12:09
ZogG_lap1opso if they don't want bad word on internet about them they shouldn't do it12:09
ZogG_lap1opit's not my fault man12:10
faenil"don't make me stupid"12:10
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: they kind of own me, as i paid for outdated HW12:10
faenilthat's aggressive12:10
faenilZogG_lap1op, outdated HW? it's a freaking Snapdragon40012:10
faenilhow is that outdated?12:10
ZogG_lap1opamd it was told not once " maybe outdated a little but cool OS and TOH"12:10
ZogG_lap1opOS is beta, TOH is colour12:10
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ZogG_lap1opso fo fuck sake, it can't be NOT THAT and NOT THAT and NOT THAT12:11
faenilonly because the resolution of the screen?12:11
ZogG_lap1opit has to be at least something12:11
ZogG_lap1opram resolution12:11
ZogG_lap1opi know that market and shit12:11
ZogG_lap1opi do understand12:11
faenilno that's all I see12:11
ZogG_lap1optalked about it12:11
faenilyou've got a last gen chipset12:12
faenilbut you never say about that eh?12:12
ZogG_lap1opbut at least give something extra for that price12:12
ZogG_lap1oplemme give you example12:12
ZogG_lap1opi worked on few R&D projects at work12:12
faenilZogG_lap1op, again, I agree geeks were expecting something more12:12
faenilbut none ever said they were working on a hw extension12:12
ZogG_lap1opand there was customer that wanted feature i developed and couldn't QA12:12
ZogG_lap1opwe told him he can get it for free12:12
ZogG_lap1opas beta12:12
ZogG_lap1ophe didn't liek how it worked12:12
ZogG_lap1opwe rolled him back12:13
ZogG_lap1opeveryone happy12:13
ZogG_lap1opbut i can't imagine what would happen if i ask money for beta version of something and give him nothing12:13
faenilZogG_lap1op, so what?12:13
ZogG_lap1opthe point is if you want to sell something beta, even if it would be awesome one day12:14
ZogG_lap1opat least throw something with it that actually works12:14
faenilZogG_lap1op, the system works pretty good12:14
faenilI think we're drifting subject here12:14
ZogG_lap1opfor now high price ( i get more with N9 for much less price)12:14
faenilZogG_lap1op, maybe you don't remember BB10 first version?12:14
faenil3g disconnecting and not reconnecting without reboot?12:15
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: no MMS, no landscape, it's beta, some android apps crash12:15
faeniland stuff like that12:15
faenilZogG_lap1op, no landscape is a design choice12:15
faenilZogG_lap1op, some androids apps crash? it depends if it's apps' fault12:15
ZogG_lap1opwhen i got it it was ok12:15
faenilwe all know android is not known for it's stability12:15
ZogG_lap1opand agian i got bb10 for free, can't complain12:15
faenildoesn't matter, people bought12:15
faenilthe fact that you got it from fre12:15
faenilmeans nothing12:16
ZogG_lap1opor crash because of support of android12:16
faenilpeople bought it for 599€12:16
faenil(or was it more)12:16
ZogG_lap1opthey can't as well delete them from 3rd party market12:16
faenilZogG_lap1op, what?12:16
ZogG_lap1opso it's mine field with android apps then12:16
thedead1440_faenil: sorry to interrupt but landscape support is being worked on according to woot so it's not actually a design choice ;)12:16
faenilthedead1440_, you're talking about browser I guess12:16
faenilthedead1440_, I didn't specify the word browser anywhere ;)12:17
ZogG_lap1opi don't think only browser as it was a lot of talking about TOH keyaboard12:17
ZogG_lap1opit bought a lot of people12:17
thedead1440_faenil: he said landscape support isn't present due to sensors not due to design choice ;)12:17
faenilZogG_lap1op, yes, the fact that people wanted it a lot doesn't mean anything to what jolla promised, imho12:17
ZogG_lap1opdon't tell me jolla didn't say anythign so they don't want to scary customers till they buy to find out by themselves that it's too laye12:17
faenilthedead1440_, yes but was that about browser?12:18
ZogG_lap1opjolla did't peomise thing12:18
faenilthedead1440_, landscape works in android apps12:18
ZogG_lap1opit was in silent to just make more rumors with space crafts like TOHs and stuff so people would want it more12:18
faenilZogG_lap1op, sorry didn't get your long sentence12:18
thedead1440_faenil: he didn't mention only browser but it was a general comment that due to receiving sensors late they couldn't implement landscape support12:18
ZogG_lap1opi don't get how you don't see it12:18
faenilZogG_lap1op, yes, because that's the potential, and it's important for people to see it12:19
faenilZogG_lap1op, but the only thing I heard marc saying was that "we're not working on a hw solution at the moment" or something like that12:19
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faenilhw other half, I don't remember12:19
faenilZogG_lap1op, of course when you're presenting the other half concept you're presenting the concept (Jolla Love Day) so it's CRITICAL to give people an idea of what it can be done12:20
faenilZogG_lap1op, but you know, things need time, resource etc12:20
faenilI never heard jolla saying it would have hw TOH at launch12:20
faenilI only heard it encouraging people to be part of the development because you can do cool things with the TOH12:21
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ZogG_lap1opfirst of i saw people ddosing their twiitter with questions about toh and it's specs for a while12:25
ZogG_lap1opand they didn't got reply for a long time12:25
ZogG_lap1opso don't tell me encourage12:25
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ZogG_lap1opit maybe stupid example, but if you know Animal Farm or anything about communism, you can understand that on words and promises you can be anything and future is bright12:26
ZogG_lap1opbut in ral world it's not always liek that12:26
ZogG_lap1opagain if you come to someone and not keeping too much secret and telling actually what;s going on person may understand you12:27
ZogG_lap1opbut for now we had no info on what state and what it would be and how we would get it12:27
ZogG_lap1opso it was assumable tht it's end user project12:27
ZogG_lap1opand it would be end user finished project12:27
ZogG_lap1opi knwo that we would have bugs12:28
ZogG_lap1opbut bugs vs not finished is different things12:28
ZogG_lap1opas well don;t compare to iphone 1 or android 112:28
ZogG_lap1opor even bb1012:28
ZogG_lap1opeven bb10 had more apps, invested in people and hackatons for reason12:29
ZogG_lap1opwhile jolla didn;t communicate on proces and revelant nothing12:29
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faenilZogG_lap1op, oh right, jolla and blackberry same resources..12:29
faenilnice point there, ahahah12:29
ZogG_lap1ophow are resources relevant man?12:30
faenilZogG_lap1op, you have no idea how much bb invested in those events and devices12:30
faenilare you kidding me?12:30
ZogG_lap1opsomeone forced jolla to sell to whole EU?12:30
faenil12k devices handed out12:30
ZogG_lap1opso?12:30
faenilso read again above12:30
ZogG_lap1opjolla had other ways and had community it could use12:30
faenilyeah, but no devices to hand out at the moment12:30
ZogG_lap1opand i by community i mean community that supported n900 by itself12:31
faenilZogG_lap1op, so, jolla sells only in finland --> boooo only finland?12:31
ZogG_lap1opota updates and shit12:31
faeniljolla sells in EU ---> boo, no free devices?12:31
ZogG_lap1opthey didn't use those resources12:31
faenilI mean, seriously12:31
ZogG_lap1opand didn't work coolabarated12:31
faenilZogG_lap1op, they WANT to use those resources12:31
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: please don't jump from topic to topic12:31
faenilZogG_lap1op, it's you doing that, I'm replying only12:32
ZogG_lap1opanything i say i hear "BUT jolaa is ..."12:32
ZogG_lap1opno one forced them to do what they do and the way they do12:32
ZogG_lap1opthere are always few options12:32
ZogG_lap1opand ways12:32
faenilZogG_lap1op, also using communtiy means PLANNING for that, and making sure it is done the right way12:32
ZogG_lap1opi don't ask for free device12:32
faeniland you know what? it would find familiar to you, planning takes time12:32
faeniland you know what else? don't know if you heard marc's speech at launch12:33
faeniljolla had a chipset until few months ago12:33
ZogG_lap1opi paid fucking 500+ $ for not end HW and no apps and no eco system12:33
ZogG_lap1opeven no headphones in box12:33
ZogG_lap1opno MMS12:33
faeniland then they had to rebuild everything in 6 months12:33
faenilI'm sure you *can* understand that not everything is possible in that timefrime12:33
faenilframe*12:33
ZogG_lap1opall the noise was made and for now it's nothing special12:33
faenilZogG_lap1op, seriously, you're blaming for no headphones in the box12:34
faenilthat is really......aww...12:34
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: it's nothing, but this and this and that12:34
faenilZogG_lap1op, it's the OS in a good state12:34
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: that telll me at least one thing that is good about jolla phone and its not abscract and it's not future planned thing12:34
faenilreliable enough in my opinion12:35
ZogG_lap1opstraight away12:35
faenila very good start for something which keep developing12:35
ZogG_lap1opNOT ABSTRACT12:35
faenilexactly, not abstract, a shipped product12:35
ZogG_lap1opby product you mena plastic that turns on12:35
faenilwhich hasn't even had a reboot from what I've read so far12:35
ZogG_lap1op?12:35
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faeniljust so you appreciate a minute12:35
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faenilZogG_lap1op, are you kidding me? plastic that turns on?12:36
ZogG_lap1oplet's try again12:36
ZogG_lap1opwhat is so special and not abstract about jolla phones12:36
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: all phones that are released shipped product12:36
ZogG_lap1opwhat makes jolla special12:37
faenilthe OS? and its design and the otherhalf?12:37
ZogG_lap1opotherhalf for now is just colour and theme (so it's abstract)12:37
faenilZogG_lap1op, no, there are pins on the phone for I2C12:37
faenil-> it's REAL12:37
faenilnow go on ;)12:37
ZogG_lap1oppin there, is it used?12:38
ZogG_lap1opi heard that N9 had led but it was never released and support for messages :)12:38
faenilnot currently, as I guess there hasn't been time to develop a full os, make a full switch of the whole graphics and mw stack in 6 months12:38
ZogG_lap1opnotifications*12:38
faenilbut it's just missing a proper other half12:38
ZogG_lap1opso it's abstract for now12:39
ZogG_lap1opso now we don't have finished product right?12:39
faenilZogG_lap1op, no, the pins are there, the OtherHalf support is done12:39
ZogG_lap1opand the price is high right?12:39
ZogG_lap1opand it's okay as it's first product12:39
faenilit's just missing a company to produce a oh which USES that REAL concept12:39
faenilnobody said Jolla would be making hw extensions itself12:39
faenilthat could be the case, but you don't have to give that for granted just because you like to believe so12:39
faeniljolla gives you the platform to do that innovation12:40
faenili.e. the phones, with the connections and handling of OH12:40
faenilthat's what jolla promised, afaik12:40
faenilZogG_lap1op, why no finished product? I don't get it...12:40
ZogG_lap1opbut again, don't tell me i'm not thankful, as Jolla has to be MORE thankful for people who pay that much money for something that can be bright future or can fail in a month. where no support for a lot of things was announecent officially while fan boys just dream of space crafts as TOHs and jolla wouldn't approve/disapprove just to keep noise around it.12:40
faenilZogG_lap1op, are you saying that since you ship an HDMI port with your phone you also have a to ship a monitor using it??12:40
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faenilZogG_lap1op, I don't think that's being done because they're sadic (is that english? :D)12:41
faenilit's just lack of time because of the reasons I said above12:42
faeniland everything keeps being developed12:42
faenilas all products evolve12:42
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: do not compare IO ports and actuall part of device12:44
ZogG_lap1opthey don't have to ship geek TOHs12:45
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ZogG_lap1opeven not for all preorders12:45
ZogG_lap1opbut at least for those 450 first12:45
faenilZogG_lap1op, it's you who're saying that they had to make a hw oh12:45
faenilotherwise you're not happy12:45
faenilZogG_lap1op, that still takes time and resources12:45
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: even if not HW12:45
ZogG_lap1opat least something SW12:45
ZogG_lap1opwith something special12:46
ZogG_lap1opthat makes it LE12:46
faenilI agree, I think I told you many times already that I expected something myself12:46
ZogG_lap1opLE is limited right?12:46
faenilyes, colour is limited12:46
faenilso stop saying it's not limited, please12:46
faeniljust because your idea of limited is different12:46
ZogG_lap1opif i can print it on 3d printer and download theme files from other phone it makes it no LE at all12:46
faenillook up dictionary and clear your doubts :P12:46
faenilZogG_lap1op, you must be kidding me xD now 3d printing?12:47
faenilZogG_lap1op, oh let me know how much you'll pay for a decent quality OH btw when you print it, okay? ;)12:47
faenil(that's unrelated though)12:48
ZogG_lap1opit's back door of phone what is so "quality" abut it?12:49
faenilZogG_lap1op, the material and the way it's actually created, I don't think a botmaker (or whatever was the 1k$ printer) can do that, for example12:53
faenileven if you clean it with acetone steam12:53
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ZogG_lap1opyou don't have to use cheap one12:55
ZogG_lap1opit's enuf that you have ebay account and expensive one you can sell things out12:56
ZogG_lap1opso i bet in few weeks we have old kind of limited TOHs on ebay12:56
ZogG_lap1opi even can give you idea of chipest simplests limited edition toh12:57
ZogG_lap1opcheapest12:57
ZogG_lap1opfor those first 450 people :)12:57
ZogG_lap1opthat will as well makes person more happy and promote how jolla is open12:58
ZogG_lap1opsimply add your name12:58
ZogG_lap1opit would sync to jolla12:58
ZogG_lap1opyou have extra app with gnu liscense or about jolla that only on limited phones12:59
ZogG_lap1opand there is 450 names in thanks and about :)12:59
ZogG_lap1opor those names can go to about of end user phone12:59
ZogG_lap1opas thanks12:59
ZogG_lap1opit's smae only colour TOH but makes it personal13:00
ZogG_lap1opexclusive13:00
faenilZogG_lap1op, I think you missed the *hand-written* thank you card in the 450 preorders box13:00
ZogG_lap1opsimple like that13:00
faenilZogG_lap1op, but yes, according to you that's not limited, as I can write it myself and put it in the box XD13:00
faenilZogG_lap1op, yeah the names would have been a good idea imho13:01
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ZogG_lap1opfaenil: as well 32GB version (again even not for all but 450 first) would be good idea, as with today prices i don't think the difference would be that great15:40
faenilZogG_lap1op, don't make assumptions, they usually don't work if you're expert in the manufacturing field :P that's what I learned15:41
faenilif you're not*15:41
ZogG_lap1opstill the difference in price wouldn't be that huge15:43
ZogG_lap1opon other hand when end user will buy device price would probably drop by that time15:43
ZogG_lap1opsooooo :(15:43
faenilZogG_lap1op, I'll go deeper, don't assume it's just a price difference15:46
ZogG_lap1opi know what you mean15:49
ZogG_lap1opbut i'm talking about part that do not reuire extra drivers/space15:49
ZogG_lap1opmost phones have few variant, but i would prefer 16 + microsd than 32 with no microsd slot15:49
ZogG_lap1opi'm just talking about them showing more attention to people who upport them15:50
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paby the way, is sailfish os available for N9? some long time ago i remember Jolla saying they would have made a somewhat unofficial version available for developing on N918:32
pa(since i'm not gonna pay 400€ for a jolla phone, i think this is the only way i can do development for sailfish)18:32
paok maybe this is not the best channel to ask such question :p18:33
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thedead1440_pa: nope. The closest you get to a sailfish image is sourenaya(spelling)'s work on tmo which is just the sdk image. I guess you need to wait now that the actual device is out for him to try to get something better19:16
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paso they will not release the sailfish os version they themselves used thus far for the development?19:20
pabad bad bad19:20
pafor them mostly.19:20
paI'm not gonna buy a device to develop for jolla. and since i believe this is the same for most of the N9 developers, not gonna buy a jolla phone to run android applications worse than on an android phone (which already sucks)19:21
pabesides, i'd prefer a N9 image rather than a free dev device from jolla.. It's so very ugly..19:23
paat least this one19:23
thedead1440_They did say they would help porting efforts but not release a port themselves due to legal issues. Also things have changed since then with the use of libhybris becoming more of a permanent measure and possibilities of sailfish running on most android devices19:25
thedead1440_Personally I am waiting it out, their conflicting messages somehow put me off from pre-ordering and although I hope they succeed I will be waiting it out for a few months to see how they progress from now on19:26
thedead1440_My one main suspicion of their browser being shit is almost right and since I use Firefox on my i9305, I don't see why I should use it on a lower specced phone knowing that Firefox is a resource hog even on a 2gig device19:28
thedead1440_If ever I can try sailfish on my i9305 and I can live with it, I would show my support by purchasing their device otherwise I am simply tired of working round things for them to work...19:29
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GeneralAntillesIt's Gecko, not Firefox.21:33
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer51: ping23:20
befordpong23:20
ZogG_laptopbeford: i need you too :)23:22
DocScrutinizer05hmm?23:33
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