| djszapi_ | also, elementary mathematical question: | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ZogG_laptop | jonni, do you have tweeter or blog? | 00:00 |
| djszapi_ | do you think 0.0.8 is higher than 0.0.20120724 ? | 00:00 |
| pa | it is outdated but it is 0.0.20120724-0~rzr1 | 00:00 |
| djszapi_ | do you think 0.0.8 is higher than 0.0.20120724 ? | 00:00 |
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| pa | well the question is: who packaged it that way? | 00:00 |
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| pa | coz apt think so | 00:01 |
| djszapi_ | pa you know this is an open repository :) | 00:01 |
| djszapi_ | it is not like the c-obs setup which is blackbox | 00:01 |
| djszapi_ | you can check out :) | 00:01 |
| pa | probably i should put rawcam on hold, then it will stop bugging me | 00:01 |
| pa | i just wanted to report | 00:01 |
| djszapi_ | well, for me rawcam is a no priority | 00:02 |
| djszapi_ | so feel free to volunteer | 00:02 |
| djszapi_ | me and rzr cannot do everything unfortunately. | 00:02 |
| djszapi_ | we would need more contributors. | 00:02 |
| djszapi_ | to sustain this more healthily. | 00:03 |
| rzr | just push packages to shared repo | 00:03 |
| djszapi_ | but unfortunately most of the volunteers were scared off by c-obs | 00:03 |
| djszapi_ | pa check if you can ignore stuff | 00:04 |
| djszapi_ | it is possible to arch with the config. | 00:04 |
| djszapi_ | otherwise it should be X.Y.Z~20120915 for instance like the qt5 packages were this morning | 00:04 |
| djszapi_ | on arch* | 00:05 |
| pa | ah right | 00:05 |
| pa | that was probably the issue | 00:05 |
| djszapi_ | nope | 00:06 |
| djszapi_ | the main problem is that it is not updated :D | 00:06 |
| djszapi_ | nobody is doing the work | 00:06 |
| djszapi_ | if it is important for you perhaps you can package this one? | 00:07 |
| djszapi_ | if not, I would just suggest to remove it or so | 00:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | pa, i think there is dev's repo | 00:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | try to ping him to push it to rzr's repo | 00:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | or download source and do it yourself :P | 00:08 |
| pa | i tried to post on his announcement thread | 00:08 |
| pa | let see what he answers | 00:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | the dev is mostly on nemomobile chan | 00:09 |
| djszapi_ | well it should be a few minutes job :D | 00:09 |
| djszapi_ | less job than communicating this altogether :d | 00:09 |
| pa | i think it would be best if dev would mantain his pkg on the repo (or put on the store) | 00:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | i have it built in my repo but i have older version | 00:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | excat as rzrs one but working :P | 00:09 |
| djszapi_ | pa: you cannot expect that from each developer | 00:09 |
| djszapi_ | that is unreal. | 00:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | as there were aegis things missing there i think | 00:09 |
| djszapi_ | that is why packagers exist in the first place :D | 00:09 |
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| ZogG_laptop | it's not logical, as they are all developed for same OS/platform | 00:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | they should be maintained by devs | 00:13 |
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| ZogG_laptop | ports and other out of harmattan stuff should be packages and maintained by maintainers | 00:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | but again then they need to keep them uptodate | 00:13 |
| djszapi_ | pa: do you really think that developers maintain the packages on any linux distributions? :D | 00:14 |
| djszapi_ | except few if ever, never. | 00:14 |
| pa | no, i know | 00:14 |
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| djszapi_ | you will have spend more time with encouraging and convincing them than just doing yourself. | 00:14 |
| pa | but in this case, since we already have to generate a deb.. | 00:14 |
| djszapi_ | *spent | 00:15 |
| djszapi_ | except that c-obs is not the same as a full-fledged environment | 00:15 |
| djszapi_ | c-obs needs some expertise. | 00:15 |
| djszapi_ | and they will be scared off in the first stage already | 00:15 |
| djszapi_ | at the first issue | 00:15 |
| djszapi_ | not to mention most of them get the packages out of the ide | 00:16 |
| djszapi_ | and done | 00:16 |
| djszapi_ | that is unacceptable for any community repository stuff from the ground up | 00:16 |
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| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_, mostly developers who make proper software at least maintain in their own distro | 00:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | and i had requested few devs to maintain for my ditro and got fast responce | 00:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | but after all you are right | 00:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | mostly they don't | 00:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's just we have small platform | 00:17 |
| djszapi_ | a lot of communication about it forth and back is just not worthy | 00:17 |
| djszapi_ | everybody will waste the time. | 00:17 |
| djszapi_ | if it is important for you, do it. | 00:18 |
| djszapi_ | if not, do not do :D | 00:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | and i think if they already use cobs or repo it would be nice to as k them to push to repo, as it will help to have uptodate packages | 00:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't care i wait from him to push it to apps4meego | 00:18 |
| djszapi_ | The qt5 developers would laugh at me asking them for packaging the project for Harmattan lol | 00:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | as i wait from Venemo to push to apps4meego | 00:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | don't compare | 00:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'm talking about app only for harmattan | 00:19 |
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| pa | any idea how to create a qml mappolyline in c++? | 00:42 |
| pa | it says: path : list<Coordinate> | 00:44 |
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| pa | do you think i can pass a QList<QtMobility::QGeoCoordinate> ? | 00:45 |
| pa | i guess Coordinate is a qml wrapping for QGeoCoordinate | 00:45 |
| pa | and list probably for a QList? | 00:45 |
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| pa | probably most of you sleep already, but.. | 01:05 |
| pa | has anybody ported qtm-geoservices-extra to harmattan? | 01:06 |
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| ZogG_ | qwazix, ping | 01:12 |
| ZogG_ | qwazix, do you mind to push rawcam updates to apps4meego and/or rzr repo? | 01:13 |
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| pa | so this guy, caco aka george ruinelli.. ported cacheme to harmattan, makes it not free, and does not even release the source code for the gpl part of it? | 01:18 |
| djszapi_ | he does not have to. | 01:25 |
| djszapi_ | also, you can ask money for free software. | 01:25 |
| pa | money is ok | 01:27 |
| pa | but why doesnt he have to release the source of the gpl part of his ap? | 01:27 |
| pa | it's gpl, not lgpl | 01:27 |
| pa | i checked | 01:28 |
| pa | (in the original cacheme) | 01:28 |
| djszapi_ | because he does not have to | 01:28 |
| djszapi_ | he only need to send a copy to someone if explicitely asked. | 01:28 |
| djszapi_ | needs* | 01:28 |
| djszapi_ | read what gpl is | 01:28 |
| pa | i see | 01:28 |
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| pa | by the way, do you know if dwaradzyn is still (active) in the community? i havent found signs of activity in the last.. yearsmaybe^ | 01:30 |
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| beford | pa: did you get another phone? | 01:40 |
| beford | I saw you talking about battery life early | 01:41 |
| pa | beford, no still the same (even though im considering to send it back again) | 01:46 |
| beford | oh but which one? I thought you lost it | 01:47 |
| pa | yes, i got one stolen, so i bought another one | 01:48 |
| pa | but long time ago | 01:48 |
| beford | ah | 01:48 |
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| ZogG_ | pa, buy another one | 01:56 |
| ZogG_ | an one more | 01:56 |
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| pa | making fun coz u got it for free, hah | 01:58 |
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| ZogG_ | pa, i bought mine | 02:01 |
| ZogG_ | i bet it cost me more as they do not sell it in my country | 02:02 |
| beford | same here | 02:02 |
| ZogG_ | i got n950 for free though :P | 02:02 |
| beford | same for the N900 and the N810 | 02:02 |
| ZogG_ | i bought n900 and no garantee or any place to repair | 02:03 |
| ZogG_ | so i ruined it more trying to fix myself | 02:03 |
| ZogG_ | and no n810 ( | 02:03 |
| ZogG_ | beford, u have been on TMO for a while then, how come i never talked to you on #maemo or have i? | 02:04 |
| beford | I am quiet | 02:04 |
| pa | :) | 02:05 |
| ZogG_ | don't lie :P | 02:05 |
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| ZogG_ | u alway make a mess here | 02:05 |
| ZogG_ | wait till Doc falls asleep and flood :P | 02:05 |
| beford | heh | 02:06 |
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| beford | well I've been here on the irc for a while, I just never registered on the ITT forums back then | 02:07 |
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| ZogG_laptop | beford, :P | 02:16 |
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| beford | Elleo: ping | 07:02 |
| Elleo | beford: pong? | 07:03 |
| beford | Elleo: hey :D | 07:03 |
| Elleo | hey | 07:03 |
| beford | Elleo: just wanted to ask you something, I dont have a Kindle and I want to know if I can still register for amazon and get an ebook, and use your app to read it? | 07:03 |
| Elleo | beford: yep, as long as the kindle store is supported in your country you should be fine | 07:04 |
| beford | do you know if its possible to read on the Desktop too? | 07:04 |
| Elleo | (even if its not, I believe you can pretend to be a US customer for Kindle stuff) | 07:04 |
| Elleo | beford: under Windows and I think MacOS there are desktop apps | 07:05 |
| beford | ah great, thanks! | 07:05 |
| Elleo | or under both those and Linux you can use the cloud reader (which my app is based around) | 07:05 |
| Elleo | that's at https://read.amazon.com | 07:05 |
| Elleo | beford: if you don't mind extra effort you can also strip the DRM from Kindle books using some plugins for Calibre and then read them in FBReader | 07:07 |
| Elleo | (or any other ebook reader that supports Mobipocket format) | 07:07 |
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| louisdk | Some say that Harmattan has no apps. I've just sitting for hours downloading interesting apps. Maybe Android has more apps - but many of them are useful? | 08:17 |
| Khertan_n950 | louisdk: depends on use case. try to found a good source code editor on ios .... there is none ;) | 08:20 |
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| ZogG_laptop | qwazix: what's exactly obs buulding problem? | 08:50 |
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| ZogG_laptop | has itsnotabigtruck got back? | 08:55 |
| qwazix | ZogG_laptop, I was going to seek your help, when I upload the latest version it does nothing. Just says excluded... | 09:07 |
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| ZogG_laptop | qwazix: it's in harmattan or your repo? | 09:10 |
| qwazix | my repo | 09:10 |
| qwazix | https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Aqwazix | 09:10 |
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| ZogG_laptop | qwazix: i'll try to build :P | 09:12 |
| qwazix | thanks | 09:12 |
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| ZogG_laptop | qwazix: why do you have 005 and 006 | 09:15 |
| qwazix | what is 005 and 006? versions? | 09:15 |
| qwazix | ah, I just committed with osc, and it didn't replace | 09:16 |
| qwazix | I thought that was the intended behavior but obviously it's not. | 09:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | qwazix: u need to delete and add :P | 09:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | that's the way it works | 09:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think it's the problem | 09:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | but not sure | 09:17 |
| qwazix | ok, got that. I'll try later (I don't have my dev setup on my laptop) | 09:17 |
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| ZogG_laptop | just loging and delete files from web :P | 09:18 |
| qwazix | Yeap, it's building :) | 09:19 |
| qwazix | thanks a million | 09:19 |
| qwazix | hope it builds | 09:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | it just didn't know what version to build :P | 09:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | if it doesn't ping me :P | 09:20 |
| * ZogG_laptop thinks that he needs to stop using ":P" smile that much | 09:21 | |
| qwazix | I should have thought about that, just by osc being like subversion, I thought I shouldn't rewrite history | 09:22 |
| qwazix | Of course I've got to go and push 0.0.8 there, and then upload to A4M | 09:23 |
| pa | qwazix, why not ovi store too? | 09:23 |
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| qwazix | pa, I will upload in ovi store as paid, but still want community members to be able to download it for free | 09:23 |
| pa | ah so you wanna sell it | 09:24 |
| pa | ok | 09:24 |
| qwazix | I feel that's a fair way to distribute software. People here helped very much to make rawcam what it is so they're entitled to a free copy. Those who believe that it's worth something can purchase it from ovi. | 09:26 |
| qwazix | I also think that Nokia stabbed us in the back by not including a community application source in harmattan like maemo extras, and don't want to reward them very much just because ovi is the only preinstalled way to get apps | 09:28 |
| qwazix | ZogG_laptop, Yay! It built. | 09:28 |
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| ZogG_laptop | qwazix: yap :P | 09:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | qwazix: i agree with ovi paid /aaps4meego - free practice | 09:35 |
| beford | hi | 09:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | qwazix: but i would recommend to pus it to rzr repo as well, as apps4meego fell down lately few tiems and it took a lot of time to repair it now wehn X-Fade is not that around | 09:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | beford: go back to sleep :) | 09:36 |
| beford | 1am why sleep | 09:36 |
| beford | its sunday | 09:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | 1 am is 01 or 13? | 09:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | i lways get confused | 09:36 |
| beford | 01:00 | 09:36 |
| qwazix | ZogG_laptop, it's already there, when I build latest I will ping rzr to push new version. | 09:36 |
| beford | pm = post meridian, which means afternoon and night | 09:37 |
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| ZogG_laptop | beford: i always check wiki and always forget :P | 09:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | that's why i believe 24 hr system is supirior | 09:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | qwazix: oh right, i think djszapi_ built it | 09:41 |
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| beford | ZogG_laptop: did you get any case for the n950? | 09:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | and anyway u can't update till end of CC | 09:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | beford: case? | 09:42 |
| beford | cover ? | 09:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't use it for n9 even | 09:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | so i didn't bother to get for n950 | 09:42 |
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| beford | well I use it on the N9 I think it has saved it from a couple of falls | 09:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think not dropping it saved it from falls :P | 09:43 |
| beford | i'm not perfect | 09:43 |
| beford | ZogG_laptop: did you see the boot selection video from juicemen on tmo? that looks nice | 09:45 |
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| ZogG_laptop | beford: nope | 10:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | where? | 10:19 |
| beford | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=86775 | 10:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | beford: did you try nitdroid or nemo? | 10:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | thinking of trying both on n950 | 10:31 |
| beford | nitdroid on the N9 | 10:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | how smooth is it? | 10:31 |
| beford | alot | 10:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | good | 10:32 |
| beford | phone calls do not work for me | 10:32 |
| beford | but I've seen on videos that they work for e-yes | 10:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | do they work for anybody? | 10:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | i mean audio | 10:32 |
| beford | yes e-yes posted videos | 10:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | e-yes: :P | 10:33 |
| djszapi_ | beford: how many people use it? | 10:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | how can he know? | 10:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | beford: found 2 months used playbook 32gb for 200$ | 10:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | thinking | 10:41 |
| beford | yea, I wouldn't know, but there are enough users on the nitdroid forums to make e-yes' angry asking the same over and over again | 10:42 |
| djszapi_ | lol | 10:47 |
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| rzr | hi sorry i was disconnected last 12h | 13:39 |
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| jpnurmi | anyone willing to help with brainstorming names for an evernote client? :) | 14:50 |
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| urmet | Hi. I recently got my hands on a N950 and now I'm tring to find a safe kernel to flash on it to get it into openmode. Current firmware on it is PR1.2 | 15:13 |
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| bindi | urmet: how'd you get your hands on one? D: | 15:24 |
| urmet | got a new job as a sysadmin and they had it lying around and were all like: here - have this phone, sysadmin needs a phone with a full keyboard :D | 15:26 |
| bindi | damnit | 15:26 |
| bindi | i want one too | 15:26 |
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| ZogG_laptop | urmet: lol | 15:30 |
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| Lava_Croft | urmet: what :D | 16:02 |
| Lava_Croft | Thats a nice way to get a hold of a N950 | 16:02 |
| urmet | well. I aint complaining | 16:04 |
| Lava_Croft | ;) | 16:05 |
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| djszapi_ | rzr: can you fix the pulseaudio19 package? | 16:31 |
| rzr | djszapi_: will have a look once home | 16:33 |
| rzr | it worked IICR | 16:33 |
| djszapi_ | yeah, but the package was utterly odd | 16:34 |
| djszapi_ | tried to update, and works locally. | 16:34 |
| djszapi_ | not on c-obs :/ | 16:34 |
| djszapi_ | I wanted to get funkeysynth in. | 16:34 |
| djszapi_ | looks a cool application, and that depends on pulseaudio19 | 16:34 |
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| rzr | good luck | 16:37 |
| djszapi_ | I will not work on it more for now. | 16:38 |
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| ZogG_laptop | pulseaudio — booooo | 16:50 |
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| ZogG_laptop | ~ping | 18:12 |
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| infobot | ~pong | 18:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | oh | 18:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | goog | 18:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | good | 18:12 |
| pa | i think the battery drainer i had was the older version of cron | 18:23 |
| pa | i updated yesterday, cron was updated together with 3 other pkg, and now idle consumption is back at 3mA | 18:24 |
| pa | it's a suspicion tho.. no real evidences | 18:25 |
| pa | but if taht's true, well then im happy with PR1.3 :) | 18:25 |
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| jonni | heh, I coded application for my personal use which prints devices lockcode in cleartext, quite usefull if you have forgotten your devicelockcode. :) | 18:41 |
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| pa | releasing it or..? | 18:42 |
| jonni | heh, dont know if I can ever release it, as the api's that it uses to dig the info are not so public | 18:44 |
| jonni | just wanted to see if I can do it :) | 18:44 |
| jonni | (and it requires hacked capas, so ovi store is out of the question anyways= | 18:45 |
| jonni | ) | 18:45 |
| djszapi_ | jonni: and hacky store? :) | 18:45 |
| djszapi_ | inception store. XD | 18:46 |
| jonni | heh, someone needs to do hacky store :) | 18:46 |
| djszapi_ | jonni: so cooked farewell-cake for tomorrow? | 18:47 |
| jonni | actually it would be quite easy to do, just install hacky stores pgp key as com.nokia.maemo, and setup repo with gui. | 18:47 |
| pa | would be handy | 18:47 |
| djszapi_ | for ... ? | 18:48 |
| djszapi_ | hacker, yes. | 18:48 |
| djszapi_ | not for end users. :D | 18:48 |
| pa | hacky apps | 18:48 |
| jonni | coffee room will be full of cakes :) | 18:48 |
| djszapi_ | jonni: also drink? :) | 18:49 |
| djszapi_ | is there anybody left there from the harmattan team? | 18:49 |
| jonni | naah, we already has sauna evening on friday, so drink side was covered then | 18:49 |
| djszapi_ | drink cannot be covered enough for Finns. XD | 18:50 |
| djszapi_ | jonni: have you worked on something interesting after the 17th of July? | 18:51 |
| djszapi_ | or was it June? | 18:51 |
| djszapi_ | yeah June, before the QtCS. | 18:52 |
| jonni | harmattan teams were fired a long time ago. Mostly I have been doing personal projects lately, home network tweaking, setting up ssd drive to car stereos, inserting sdcard floppy emuation to my old Amiga, gotten Nexus7 and looging howto tether that with N9 (either custom hostapd or patched wpa_supplicant), etc. | 18:54 |
| djszapi_ | jonni: will your new stuff be open source? | 18:55 |
| jonni | on harmattan side my current tweaks that Im doing is custom kernel, custom hostapd, custom libsms, custom devicelock, custom warning.rle maker, custom cli backup&restore, automatic sha1 reflashlist resigner, etc, I have a dream to make somekind of mega release when I get my things ready. | 18:57 |
| jonni | only thing is that I dont know if I have that much free time in the future :) | 18:58 |
| jonni | most of the code is ready, just need to test and package them into some usable form. | 18:59 |
| djszapi_ | jonni: I mean your company stuff | 19:00 |
| jonni | djszapi_: ah, yes and no, mostly I think that I will be doing propriatary side in the future. | 19:01 |
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| djszapi_ | jonni: you sold your soul to the devil? :P | 19:16 |
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| djszapi_ | qwazix: you are the rawcam author? | 19:59 |
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| qwazix | djszapi_, yes | 20:02 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: I had problems while packaging. | 20:03 |
| djszapi_ | ~updates | 20:03 |
| djszapi_ | ~update | 20:03 |
| infobot | rumour has it, update is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer/2012/01/25/harmattan-1.2-beta-now-available-as-ocf-for-nokia-n950 | 20:03 |
| qwazix | djszapi_, what problems? I'm not a packaging guru either, ZogG helped a lot with the procedure | 20:04 |
| rashm2k | hey djszapi_ | 20:06 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: cannot recall :D | 20:06 |
| rashm2k | If you have a ListView Model backed by a QStringList model.get(xxx) does not work | 20:07 |
| rashm2k | however model[index] does work | 20:07 |
| rashm2k | might be a good idea to include this in the docs somewhere | 20:08 |
| djszapi_ | rashm2k: it is not a docs issue | 20:08 |
| djszapi_ | it should be a faq on a community wiki | 20:08 |
| djszapi_ | we cannot always check the documentation for faqs | 20:08 |
| djszapi_ | if solved or not | 20:08 |
| qwazix | djszapi_, https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=rawcam&project=home%3Aqwazix here are latest dsc and tar.gz | 20:09 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: could you please push to the community repository? | 20:10 |
| qwazix | How is that done? | 20:11 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: submit | 20:11 |
| djszapi_ | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=rawcam&project=home%3Aqwazix | 20:11 |
| djszapi_ | submit package | 20:11 |
| djszapi_ | and then home:rzr:harmattan | 20:12 |
| qwazix | ok, doing it now | 20:12 |
| qwazix | done | 20:17 |
| qwazix | Another question, for apps4meego the screenshot and icon must be in the root folder of the tarball? | 20:18 |
| djszapi_ | why not ovi? | 20:20 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: would you like to maintain this package in the community repository? | 20:21 |
| djszapi_ | because then I can assign you as the maintainer to that package. | 20:21 |
| qwazix | yes I can do that | 20:22 |
| qwazix | djszapi_, it's already uploaded to ovi but it will be paid there | 20:22 |
| qwazix | (haven't got through QA yet) | 20:23 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: accepted. | 20:24 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: I do not know about apps4meego, but I can assure you it is not used by many. | 20:24 |
| djszapi_ | plus the maintainance is kinda abandoned unfortunately. | 20:25 |
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| qwazix | yeah, I suppose, but I feel that Nokia stabbed us in the back with removing extras from harmattan and I want to get in their eye | 20:26 |
| qwazix | that's why I want to upload to a4m | 20:26 |
| qwazix | djszapi_, so let's say there's a new version out after the feature freeze, do I do the same procedure to upgrade the package in the community repo or what? | 20:31 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: you can work directly in the community repository | 20:33 |
| qwazix | aha, ok then, I'll keep it updated. Thanks | 20:33 |
| djszapi_ | yw :) | 20:34 |
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| khertan | qwazix, and worst ... qa at nokia store is random | 20:56 |
| khertan | i'm tired of their QA random ... so i ve remove everythings from their store | 20:56 |
| khertan | and publish only on apps4meego | 20:57 |
| qwazix | khertan, yes I heard, I've been lucky on that matter though | 20:57 |
| * djszapi_ had no any issues | 20:57 | |
| * djszapi_ has actually received valuable feedback from the Ovi store | 20:57 | |
| djszapi_ | in addition they usually delete the insane reviews when I report, like in few hours as this week for instance. | 20:58 |
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| rzr | khertan: hi think about also pushing to shared repo devel versions untill i set up a snapshot bot | 21:00 |
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| djszapi_ | also apps4meego is not a "free" repo either | 21:02 |
| djszapi_ | it is driven by a company. | 21:03 |
| djszapi_ | same as c-obs where the community did not actually get accesses to what they would need. | 21:03 |
| djszapi_ | also, who works on apps4meego for Harmattan, like QA? | 21:05 |
| djszapi_ | what tools are applied for QA? | 21:05 |
| djszapi_ | how many downloads has it a week for instance? | 21:05 |
| djszapi_ | how much and swift reponse from the staff for an inquiry? | 21:06 |
| djszapi_ | how fast do they fix a bug? | 21:06 |
| djszapi_ | also, what does it mean the OVI QA is "random"? | 21:08 |
| qwazix | djszapi_, your concerns seem valid, but don't all of them except downloads per month apply for maemo extras? And that's obviously a better thing than ovi. Also downloads/month is a chicken-egg thing. If there aren't any valuable apps, downloads will not go up | 21:09 |
| djszapi_ | maemo extras != apps4meego | 21:10 |
| djszapi_ | I do not think the point is to get an open source, but unusable store. | 21:11 |
| qwazix | in what sense? Except for the stupid decision not to allow dependencies | 21:11 |
| djszapi_ | I think people are happier with a store more manpower behind for help | 21:11 |
| djszapi_ | and that is clearly Ovi | 21:12 |
| djszapi_ | and has always been | 21:12 |
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| djszapi_ | not to mention, there is no apps4meego client on the firmware. | 21:13 |
| djszapi_ | on top of the much less manpower. | 21:13 |
| khertan | djszapi_, depending who test and random of stupidity you got some stupid answer : didn't work | 21:14 |
| djszapi_ | why is that stupid? | 21:14 |
| djszapi_ | if it does not work for them? | 21:14 |
| djszapi_ | are you calling them liar? | 21:14 |
| khertan | djszapi_, because, they didn't read at least the purpose of the apps | 21:15 |
| khertan | have new rules not in the qa rules dependings on who test it | 21:15 |
| djszapi_ | well that is your problem | 21:15 |
| djszapi_ | an application should be intuitive in the first place. | 21:15 |
| djszapi_ | do not expect people reading man or help pages. | 21:15 |
| khertan | think always there is copyright problem | 21:15 |
| djszapi_ | this is a fairly basic point in application development. | 21:15 |
| khertan | djszapi_, yep that i know | 21:16 |
| djszapi_ | and it of course can happen everywhere | 21:16 |
| djszapi_ | not just in Ovi. | 21:16 |
| khertan | and i agree | 21:16 |
| djszapi_ | but I would not say, they did not read it. | 21:16 |
| djszapi_ | perhaps it was just complicate for them | 21:16 |
| khertan | i say it, and i assume | 21:16 |
| djszapi_ | as it can be for anybody else. | 21:16 |
| khertan | for example you can't even name a service your application is for | 21:16 |
| khertan | one was refused | 21:16 |
| djszapi_ | so if you cannot make your application intuitive you will have bigger problems than ovi... | 21:17 |
| khertan | because i say it use desktoppr services ? | 21:17 |
| qwazix | The fact that there is no apps4meego client together with the stupid no-dependencies thing feels to me like a deliberate crippling of the community character of maemo/meego, in favor of the little money they will make from ovi. That's why I'd like the scale to shift away from it. Ovi was there on the N900 too, and nobody used it, because the community applications were elsewere. And maemo extras weren't enabled till pr1.2 (which probably | 21:17 |
| qwazix | happened just because noone used ovi) | 21:17 |
| khertan | like creating a twitter apps whithout never saying it s connect to twitter | 21:17 |
| qwazix | *weren't enabled in the firmware | 21:17 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: where is apps4foobar enabled? | 21:18 |
| djszapi_ | on android? | 21:19 |
| djszapi_ | on ios? | 21:19 |
| djszapi_ | on blackberry? | 21:19 |
| djszapi_ | no | 21:19 |
| djszapi_ | not to mention Android asks for 25 EUR, Nokia asked for insignificant 1 EUR for distributing your application. | 21:19 |
| qwazix | ehm, that's the reason I don't use either of them | 21:19 |
| khertan | but at a time wan't open to independant | 21:19 |
| khertan | /s/wan't/wasn't | 21:20 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: why do you need apps4foobar? | 21:20 |
| djszapi_ | when there is a bunch of people to have worked on the official store? | 21:21 |
| djszapi_ | why would you need more? | 21:21 |
| djszapi_ | also, I highly doubt you would give out of your hands the store option if you are the vendor. | 21:21 |
| qwazix | And I would be a bit more relaxed in criticising nokia IF the N9 was to be the mass market device it was intended to be. But it's still a niche device like the N900 and by PR1.3 they knew that very well, so they could very well enable community repositories on it so that it could last another day | 21:21 |
| djszapi_ | would be a very silly business strategy. :) | 21:21 |
| djszapi_ | if you can money out of it. | 21:21 |
| djszapi_ | get* | 21:21 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: you do not know the history | 21:22 |
| djszapi_ | and you are throwing bad words at them. | 21:22 |
| djszapi_ | they actually did give all the credentials to apps4meego. | 21:22 |
| djszapi_ | which I would not have had personally. | 21:22 |
| qwazix | maybe I don't. I just see wasted potential. | 21:22 |
| djszapi_ | given* | 21:22 |
| djszapi_ | apps4meego has exactly the same credential set as ovi store | 21:23 |
| djszapi_ | they gave this out in the last minutes. | 21:23 |
| djszapi_ | Like I said, I find it a false decision, but they did. | 21:23 |
| djszapi_ | in addition maintaining two app stores officialy is double the work | 21:25 |
| khertan | djszapi_, that an other aegis problem </troll> | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | plus of course you would outsource the money of your business. | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | khertan: there is no aegis problem | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | that is exactly my point | 21:25 |
| khertan | djszapi_, which business ? they kill it | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | they solved it for the community | 21:25 |
| khertan | djszapi_, yep | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | khertan: kill what? | 21:26 |
| djszapi_ | do you think the 1 EUR is not going to a Nokia bank account and so forth? | 21:26 |
| khertan | MeeGo / Maemo currently by they switch to WP | 21:26 |
| djszapi_ | irrelevant | 21:26 |
| khertan | i don't think they catch many money from the store | 21:26 |
| djszapi_ | ovi still has income until now. | 21:26 |
| khertan | djszapi_, probably just enough to pay qa teams ? | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | so I fail to see why they should deny that income. | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | they do not dislike money :) | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | who knows or cares | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | it is their wallet. | 21:27 |
| khertan | djszapi_, indeed | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | I would not like to dig into that. | 21:27 |
| khertan | noone care :) swith to apps4meego | 21:27 |
| khertan | :) | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | I do not see why. | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | it is pretty much abandoned as c-obs is. | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | it is not available for users by default. | 21:28 |
| khertan | and ? | 21:28 |
| djszapi_ | and ovi has much more work behind and applications. | 21:28 |
| qwazix | Anyway, the bottom line of my thinking is this: Nokia could benefit from an infrastructure set up like maemo extras, where developers can reuse code from others, and give the phone a much bigger selection of apps in less time. The loss of money from individual application sales could be very well offseted by larger N9 sales volumes. All reviews were raving about the phone but in the end they recommended against buying for the lack of apps | 21:28 |
| qwazix | , dead ecosystem etc. | 21:28 |
| khertan | and why both could not coexists ? | 21:28 |
| djszapi_ | and it means a complete no go for me. | 21:28 |
| khertan | it s not like if n9 was mass market | 21:28 |
| khertan | and not a end of life product | 21:28 |
| qwazix | 1 extra N9 is equivalent to about 2000 sales of a one-euro app | 21:28 |
| khertan | djszapi_, and search is so useless on ovi store that most user use web site to found apps | 21:29 |
| djszapi_ | disagree | 21:29 |
| djszapi_ | they have pretty much made the search nice | 21:29 |
| djszapi_ | it catches substrings etc nowadays | 21:29 |
| khertan | all search result you got are scam rss apps | 21:29 |
| djszapi_ | well the last few months at least. | 21:29 |
| djszapi_ | that is not what I have seen 1-2 hours ago while looking for a type of application... | 21:30 |
| djszapi_ | I do not think we need two stores | 21:31 |
| qwazix | Anyway the windows phone decision is relevant here: obviously the money is on selling devices, not other peoples apps. | 21:31 |
| djszapi_ | we would have needed one good store | 21:31 |
| djszapi_ | IMO and community repository would have been enough. | 21:32 |
| djszapi_ | ovi* | 21:32 |
| djszapi_ | and a client for installing from the community repository. | 21:32 |
| qwazix | djszapi_, that would be the best thing ever | 21:33 |
| djszapi_ | I have never seen the point of apps4meego for Harmattan :) | 21:33 |
| djszapi_ | in the beginning, I thought it could have been nice if there is a manpower army behind. | 21:33 |
| djszapi_ | but it never was the case. | 21:33 |
| djszapi_ | so a lightweight community repository client would have been less work. | 21:33 |
| djszapi_ | no rating, comment, etc, but less work anyways | 21:34 |
| djszapi_ | and that is why I think it was a wrong decision to ask for permissions for apps4meego | 21:34 |
| djszapi_ | we should have asked for the community repository intead. | 21:34 |
| djszapi_ | instead* | 21:34 |
| djszapi_ | apps4meego has few packages | 21:34 |
| qwazix | I agree with that too | 21:34 |
| djszapi_ | the community repository has 700+ projects with at least 1000-2000 packages. | 21:34 |
| djszapi_ | and anybody can be nominated easily to add and maintain new packages. | 21:35 |
| djszapi_ | maintaining a full app store requires a bunch of contigous work. | 21:35 |
| qwazix | yes but there's no QA, and some packages do not work at all | 21:35 |
| djszapi_ | maintaining a very simple repository is much less work, and hence doable. | 21:35 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: exactly my point | 21:35 |
| qwazix | even a simple qa like diablo, were the maintainer just promotes by himself | 21:35 |
| djszapi_ | we do not have enough manpower for this either | 21:36 |
| djszapi_ | why do we think we have then enough manpower for a full-fledged community app store? | 21:36 |
| qwazix | I've seen a lot of complaints that the community repo is full of non-working packages | 21:36 |
| djszapi_ | like? | 21:36 |
| djszapi_ | people will always complain :D | 21:37 |
| djszapi_ | and will call us random stupid like khertan did with ovi :D | 21:37 |
| djszapi_ | there is nothing new about that unfortunately. | 21:37 |
| djszapi_ | but my point remains: why would we wanna set up a full-fledged appstore when we do not even have the manpower to set up a community repository in the first place? | 21:37 |
| qwazix | rawcam for example had a higher version in the repo and didn't work at all, so people with the repo enabled had problems installing my .deb | 21:37 |
| djszapi_ | an app store requires community repositories plus lots of additional work. | 21:38 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: well, zogg packaged that and you. | 21:38 |
| djszapi_ | blame yourself :P | 21:38 |
| djszapi_ | I am not in charge of that. | 21:38 |
| djszapi_ | and yes, there are problems, but "full of non-working packages" is utterly exaggeration. | 21:39 |
| qwazix | no, I didn't, rzr did but anyway I'm not blaming anyone | 21:39 |
| qwazix | I'm just advocating a two-step repo | 21:39 |
| djszapi_ | the whole qt5 and kde stacks are working entirely fine. | 21:39 |
| djszapi_ | it is already more than two steps. | 21:39 |
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| djszapi_ | we have stable, testing, and unstable. | 21:39 |
| djszapi_ | again, my packages do work as far as I know which is about 100-200 | 21:40 |
| djszapi_ | including the whole KDE stack with dependencies and Qt5. | 21:40 |
| djszapi_ | but me and rzr cannot package the whole world together :D | 21:40 |
| djszapi_ | so how did anybody think an app store will work out? :D | 21:40 |
| djszapi_ | especially since that was mostly born when the platform was beheaded. XD | 21:41 |
| djszapi_ | harmattan was one of the first platform having Qt5 beta 1 for instance, and qtquick2. | 21:41 |
| djszapi_ | platforms* | 21:41 |
| djszapi_ | now you will maintain rawcam, it will hopefully work :D | 21:41 |
| djszapi_ | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=rawcam&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard -> looks like it built fine. | 21:42 |
| djszapi_ | also, people can open bugreports if something is not working. | 21:43 |
| djszapi_ | hard to see they experience problems when they do not report. | 21:43 |
| qwazix | Yep I saw it, I'll add the repo and test it to be sure, but I tested it from my repo and works, so it should be the same. | 21:43 |
| djszapi_ | I still feel the "full of non-working packages" a bit exaggerating. | 21:45 |
| djszapi_ | any other example on the tip of your tongue? | 21:45 |
| qwazix | I didn't mean to devalue the work behind the community repository by any means, I think you're doing a superb job, and I was honoured that rzr packaged rawcam to make it more easily accessible | 21:45 |
| qwazix | I just read a few complaints. One was worded something like that, I don't remember by whom: "Many packages are just built on the community repository and never tested" | 21:46 |
| djszapi_ | I fully tested the KDE stack | 21:47 |
| djszapi_ | and Qt5 stack | 21:47 |
| djszapi_ | and the pull many dependencies in. | 21:47 |
| djszapi_ | so I tested all the dependencies as well implicitely. | 21:47 |
| djszapi_ | moreover applications built on the top of those. | 21:48 |
| djszapi_ | hard to judge without concrete examples. | 21:48 |
| qwazix | And as I had read one or two responses from rzr that he packaged something without knowing if it works, I was inclined to believe it, obviously wrongly. | 21:48 |
| khertan | djszapi_, you know i didn't complain about nokia ovi store until recently where qa refused for strange reason | 21:48 |
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| khertan | s | 21:48 |
| khertan | i really have the feeling that they put guys without competences | 21:49 |
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| khertan | recently | 21:49 |
| djszapi_ | khertan: same to you too, cannot judge without conrete cases. | 21:49 |
| djszapi_ | but for one, you will have always more n00b in the community. | 21:49 |
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| djszapi_ | qwazix: right, so the community repository is mostly packaged by me and rzr. | 21:50 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: I can assure you all of my packages were tested without any exception. | 21:50 |
| djszapi_ | I build in scratchbox, and I then install the generated packages right away | 21:50 |
| rzr | not mine | 21:50 |
| djszapi_ | and if everything works, it goes for testing. | 21:50 |
| khertan | djszapi_, wleux apps, they complain that Copyright Infrigment because i name desktoppr.co in the description of the apps | 21:50 |
| djszapi_ | and once the community repository built it and distributed it, I can test on my device | 21:51 |
| khertan | KhtBMA, i sayed that it s an unofficial authenticator for diablo3 | 21:51 |
| khertan | djszapi_, they refuse it because diablo 3 is a commercial name | 21:51 |
| khertan | how to describe the apps so ? | 21:51 |
| khertan | khtsimpletext, they complain three time that didn't install ... | 21:51 |
| khertan | the fourst time ... it s was ok | 21:52 |
| khertan | their repo was down so the app installer wasn't able to download the depandancies | 21:52 |
| djszapi_ | khertan: you think they are liars if they say, your application does install for them? | 21:52 |
| khertan | djszapi_, this is concrete case | 21:52 |
| rzr | describe it as unfree game that may screw your life | 21:52 |
| djszapi_ | does not* | 21:52 |
| djszapi_ | if they distribute your application | 21:52 |
| khertan | djszapi_, the app didn't install because the nokia repo was not | 21:52 |
| djszapi_ | while the apps "repository" is down | 21:52 |
| djszapi_ | it will be non-working for the users | 21:53 |
| djszapi_ | so I would reject too. | 21:53 |
| khertan | djszapi_, if the repo is down, they can't download it | 21:53 |
| djszapi_ | until the things fixed. | 21:53 |
| khertan | so it s not fault of the apps | 21:53 |
| khertan | but of their store | 21:53 |
| khertan | how should i fix that ? | 21:53 |
| djszapi_ | khertan: well you need to test these things... | 21:53 |
| djszapi_ | before sending... | 21:53 |
| khertan | include statically all libs provided on their repo ? | 21:53 |
| djszapi_ | and it is easily reproducable... | 21:54 |
| khertan | djszapi_, no it s not easily reproductable | 21:54 |
| djszapi_ | not to mention, you can be happy they allowed that. | 21:54 |
| khertan | their is cache by country | 21:54 |
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| djszapi_ | I would reject by default if you depend on the apps where you should not. | 21:54 |
| rzr | anyway depending on nokia store is too risky i feel | 21:54 |
| djszapi_ | since there is no guaranee for that. | 21:54 |
| qwazix | djszapi_, it's standard ovi procedure to allow dependencies from the sdk | 21:54 |
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| khertan | i DIDN'T DEPENDS ON APPS :! | 21:54 |
| khertan | APPS DEPENDS ON LIBS THEY HAVE IN THEIR REPOSITORY STORE | 21:55 |
| djszapi_ | apps=softwares | 21:55 |
| djszapi_ | your capslock seem to be screwed. | 21:55 |
| djszapi_ | seems* | 21:55 |
| khertan | yeah | 21:55 |
| khertan | my mind too | 21:55 |
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| qwazix | for example rawcam depends on fcam which on pr1.1 is on sdk repo while on pr1.2 is on device (and newer version), there is no other way than depend on it | 21:56 |
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| djszapi_ | qwazix: except that the sdkrepo is not the apps repository | 21:56 |
| djszapi_ | or it was not at least. | 21:56 |
| qwazix | khertan talks about the sdk repo too methinks | 21:57 |
| djszapi_ | I believe not. | 21:57 |
| djszapi_ | at least he was asking here few times about the apps "repository" | 21:57 |
| djszapi_ | and if he can depend on packages in there. | 21:58 |
| djszapi_ | and I suggested to him not to, if he can avoid. | 21:58 |
| qwazix | but you can't depend on other packages except sdk ones I think when submitting to ovi | 21:58 |
| djszapi_ | because that repository has no guarantee, and it was seen to be down many times. | 21:58 |
| djszapi_ | my applications do not depend on the apps repository afaik. | 21:58 |
| djszapi_ | unsure about the diablo3 issue | 22:00 |
| rZr | we'll talk about it later i have to go | 22:00 |
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| djszapi_ | ianal, I would leave that issue to a lawyer. | 22:00 |
| qwazix | and what does that repo contain? | 22:01 |
| djszapi_ | if they say, it is not ok, I can change it to something else to be safe. | 22:01 |
| djszapi_ | it is not a big problem to fix. | 22:01 |
| djszapi_ | it is a one liner.. | 22:01 |
| djszapi_ | they do not need to re-test and so forth. | 22:01 |
| djszapi_ | so I would expect it a simple fix with swift procedure. | 22:02 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: do not know by heart; I would need to check it. | 22:02 |
| djszapi_ | I do not have time for that as of now. | 22:02 |
| qwazix | nvm, I was just curious | 22:03 |
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| djszapi_ | but it is known for being down a lot, so better to avoid. | 22:05 |
| djszapi_ | qwazix: do you also contribute to nemo? | 22:06 |
| qwazix | A little bit, recently | 22:07 |
| djszapi_ | do you see any future for that? | 22:07 |
| qwazix | I like very much spending time on UI so I started a little project to bring some consistency and plan to the nemo UI | 22:08 |
| qwazix | As for the future, I think it's directly related to available devices | 22:08 |
| qwazix | I think that with a few months more work nemo will pass the tipping point of being usable day to day, | 22:09 |
| djszapi_ | I wish you good luck about that. | 22:10 |
| djszapi_ | Unfortunately, I have been hearing the same for over a year. | 22:11 |
| qwazix | It sure feels that it has more future than harmattan, but that may just be the excitement, dunno... | 22:11 |
| djszapi_ | but let us hope, it is true this time. | 22:11 |
| djszapi_ | I have contributed to that project long ago when it was still called meego. :) | 22:11 |
| djszapi_ | then meego de, then meego ce, and then nemo. | 22:12 |
| djszapi_ | perhaps I missed a name in the meantime. | 22:12 |
| qwazix | I think that's about correct | 22:12 |
| djszapi_ | and we have alway been said, it is soon ready for daily usage. | 22:12 |
| djszapi_ | and to be frank the edition about one and half a year ago was. :) | 22:13 |
| djszapi_ | soon ready for that. | 22:13 |
| qwazix | It's pretty stable now as it is, it's just missing applications and polish. | 22:13 |
| djszapi_ | I do not know how it went so long afterward without getting there. | 22:13 |
| djszapi_ | afterwards* | 22:13 |
| qwazix | Many things are being rewritten from mtf to qml | 22:13 |
| djszapi_ | still qtquick1 :/ | 22:14 |
| djszapi_ | I have been playing recently with qtquick2 on Harmattan. | 22:14 |
| djszapi_ | and the meego components. | 22:14 |
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| qwazix | Is it so different syntactically? | 22:15 |
| qwazix | I mean is it hard to upgrade existing apps? | 22:15 |
| djszapi_ | most likely that is what nemo will also need in the future, but probably not near. | 22:15 |
| djszapi_ | hmm, not really, no. | 22:16 |
| djszapi_ | I am trying to make the transient as smooth as possible now. | 22:16 |
| djszapi_ | although the version bumps will be needed. | 22:16 |
| djszapi_ | cannot tell any other porting effort for now. | 22:17 |
| qwazix | Have you seen the new nemo home built on qml? | 22:17 |
| djszapi_ | the C++ side may need some refactoring, but that is outside the scope of the component. | 22:17 |
| djszapi_ | components.* | 22:17 |
| djszapi_ | nope. | 22:17 |
| djszapi_ | I have not seen that project the last one year or so. | 22:18 |
| djszapi_ | perhaps someone gave the phone into my hands. | 22:18 |
| djszapi_ | but actively, I have only seen one and half a years ago. | 22:18 |
| djszapi_ | on my N900 :-) | 22:19 |
| qwazix | It looks a lot more like harmattan now. It even has swipe. (not all the animation stuff but still) | 22:19 |
| djszapi_ | was extremely slow and burnt my hands :) | 22:19 |
| djszapi_ | it made the phone so hot. | 22:19 |
| qwazix | Haven't tried it on N900 lately, but on N950 is very speedy. | 22:19 |
| djszapi_ | I would not like to flash that to my n9. | 22:20 |
| djszapi_ | and my n950 is about 2000-3000 kms away now unfortunately. :P | 22:20 |
| djszapi_ | forgot to grab before the relocation. | 22:20 |
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| qwazix | Anyway, I have to go. About the community repo before, I didn't mean to question your work, I just heard some complaints and just stated what I heard, but as you said, people will always complain. | 22:29 |
| djszapi_ | no worries. :) | 22:30 |
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| qwazix | g'night | 22:30 |
| djszapi_ | gnight! | 22:32 |
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