| ajalkane | What's NB= | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ajalkane | ? | 00:00 |
| djszapi | next billion... | 00:00 |
| RST38h | forget next billion | 00:00 |
| ajalkane | I guessed that, but the next billion's got the Elop Axe +5 of MS holy fire. | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 00:00 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: irrelevant | 00:00 |
| djszapi | qt5 was born for primarily that case. | 00:01 |
| RST38h | the way things are going, the relevant question is who will go bust first, RiM or Nokia | 00:01 |
| djszapi | the paradigm and the whole vision was constructed upon that. | 00:01 |
| djszapi | were* | 00:01 |
| * RST38h farts every time he hears the word "paradigm" | 00:01 | |
| ajalkane | djszapi: why is that irrelevant? If no one is using Qt5 on mobile, what use is it that it was constructed for that paradigm? | 00:01 |
| RST38h | Twice on the use of word "vision" | 00:02 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: because it is just simply not dead | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 00:02 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: there is no qt5 running in KDE | 00:02 |
| djszapi | and way way long way we need to come up with. | 00:02 |
| djszapi | it is already used on Harmattan | 00:02 |
| djszapi | and as far as I see on Android | 00:02 |
| djszapi | recap: it is currently mostly only used on mobile phones. | 00:02 |
| RST38h | You have got a company that shed most of its R&D people, turned itself into a production outfit for Microsoft, making stuff nobody wants. | 00:02 |
| RST38h | And the funny part is that even Microsoft does not need what it does too much, with WinRT, Win8, and WP8 | 00:03 |
| ajalkane | I'm still not seeing any enormous gains on using qt5 on harmattan. The only gains you've outlined is for Qt5 to become better, if I understood correctly. | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and let me guess: still suggests to go "future", accomplish "visions", stick to "paradigms"? | 00:03 |
| RST38h | What vision? What paradigm? What next billion? The Meltemi people have been let gojust recently. | 00:03 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: well, yes and no. | 00:04 |
| RST38h | The QML-base Qt stuff is pretty much a disaster | 00:04 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: if Qt5 gets better due to the actual usage, of course it is gonna be better for Android etc | 00:04 |
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| RST38h | In fact, every time someone says "we need to include JavaScript" it is a sure sign of disastr | 00:04 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: not to mention the new features there were nowhere in Qt. | 00:04 |
| djszapi | plus the less maintenance hell for many things. | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ajalkane: aaaah, of course. abuse a nearly dead platform to improve a nearly dead toolkit | 00:05 |
| djszapi | sure, you will not get anything by using opengl instead of opengl as an end user | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since the change from gtk to qt to qml wasn't enough to piss of every single developer on this planet | 00:06 |
| RST38h | Doc: you have forgotten two more steps | 00:06 |
| djszapi | but of course, that is not the only main point. | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I thought as much, yes | 00:06 |
| RST38h | Doc: One is C# and the next one is WinRT | 00:06 |
| RST38h | I am sure making your device incompatible with any reasonable programming language made lots of progress for Microsoft and Nokia, vision-wise | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, we're about to await winRT on HARM now? | 00:07 |
| RST38h | Doc: Oh, I am talking in general sense | 00:07 |
| ajalkane | I'm not sold on the utility of Qt5 on Harmattan on these arguments. Not until it's easy to deploy for end users as a dependency. And very easy work-flow for developers. Both are missing at the moment. | 00:07 |
| RST38h | Doc: If you are a Nokia developer, you are viewing Harmattan as just one generation of many | 00:08 |
| RST38h | Doc:And it does not look good either | 00:08 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: then you are not buying many things | 00:08 |
| djszapi | too many things IMO | 00:08 |
| djszapi | KDE for Harmattan, Qt for Android, KDE for Android ... etc in the long queue... | 00:08 |
| RST38h | And why do you need KDE for Android? | 00:08 |
| djszapi | KDE on Windows, Mac... and what not. | 00:08 |
| RST38h | Or even Qt for Android... | 00:08 |
| djszapi | RST38h: why wouldn't you? | 00:08 |
| RST38h | I can provide lots of reasons why I would NOT | 00:09 |
| djszapi | if there is a ready made logic in KDE that you can just wrap with a new UI ? | 00:09 |
| ajalkane | These all seem like something 99% of Harmattan users have no use for. | 00:09 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: KDE has no use ? :o | 00:09 |
| RST38h | djszapi: no such logic I can think about | 00:09 |
| RST38h | djszapi: given that Android has got many more apps than KDE has to offer | 00:09 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: KDE on harmattan is something I'm willing to claim 99% of Harmattan users will never install. If it ever becomes available. | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: wrong addressee to talk about logic | 00:09 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: then I have fake 40k downloads for just 2 KD Eapps. | 00:10 |
| djszapi | KDE apps* | 00:10 |
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| ajalkane | djszapi: KDE is quite different than some applications that have been ported from KDE, aye? | 00:10 |
| djszapi | you do not understand what KDE is. | 00:11 |
| ajalkane | Might be. So you meant Qt5's utility is that KDE apps can be have on harmattan? | 00:11 |
| djszapi | no... | 00:11 |
| djszapi | It has been in a royal PITA to deploy KDE. | 00:11 |
| ajalkane | KDE doesn't use Qt5 at the moment, so what's the extra utility of Qt5 in that context? | 00:11 |
| djszapi | I have spent a decent amount of my life with working on that project, and managing people around | 00:12 |
| djszapi | but we did it! | 00:12 |
| djszapi | and many users are happy, and we got a lot of positive feedback. | 00:12 |
| djszapi | you were claiming, if it is not two minutes to deliver, it is not worth it. | 00:12 |
| djszapi | I am saying, I disagree with that. | 00:12 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 mumbles "don't feed the troll", blinks, talks to himself "idiot! nobody will listen to you" | 00:12 | |
| djszapi | ajalkane: KDE (frameworks branch) does use Qt5. | 00:13 |
| djszapi | actually that branch only uses Qt5. | 00:13 |
| ajalkane | Those were not my exact words. But you're close to it if you modify your algorithm with benefit/cost analysis | 00:13 |
| ajalkane | Does your apps use Qt5? | 00:14 |
| djszapi | in other words: | 00:14 |
| djszapi | KDE is probably a lot more painy to deliver than Qt, so what ? | 00:14 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: well, I'm glad someone has taken the painful road. Especially if it will make others to do similar work in the future easier. | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ajalkane: you're aware you discuss with a guy who probably still claims aegis is the greatest thing since Konrad Zuse | 00:15 |
| RST38h | Who is Konrad Zuse? Some mucho German deathcamp torturer? | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | based on the proposition he contributed to it | 00:15 |
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| ajalkane | DocScrutinizer05: lol yeah... but well, I do agree in principle with him that aegis is good. But the platform security policy as implemented on Harmattan is stupid. | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then I guess in ~24 months you both will agree Qt5 on HARM also is as great as aegis, only the way it got used by app devels made it suck donkey balls | 00:17 |
| RST38h | btw, deploying kde apps without deploying the whole thing is very very difficult | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki zuse | 00:18 |
| infobot | At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuse (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{redirect|Zuse|Konrad Zuse's son|Horst Zuse|the institute|Zuse Institute Berlin}} {{Infobox scientist | name = Konrad Zuse | image = Konrad Zuse (1992).jpg|200px | image_size = | caption = Konrad Zuse in 1992 | birth_date = {{birth date|1910|6|22|df=yes}} | birth_place = Berlin, German Empire | death_date = {{death date and age|1995|12|18|1910|6|22|df=yes}} | death_place = Hünfeld, ... | 00:18 |
| RST38h | and deploying the whole thing makes it very very unusable | 00:18 |
| djszapi | RST38h: for you, but not for tons of users who were happy. | 00:18 |
| RST38h | people get happy over stupidiest of reasons... | 00:19 |
| djszapi | ah, yeah KDE is a crap, I forgot. :) | 00:19 |
| RST38h | no, not crap | 00:19 |
| djszapi | I brainwashed them in fact :D | 00:19 |
| RST38h | just designed to be used standalone | 00:19 |
| ajalkane | lol... I think even today that Qt5 on Harmattan would be great. It just would have to be made practical. And it's not that. Nokia Store nor apps4meego support dependencies. And no one has made easy workflow for sharing the Qt5 libs. It needs to be easy for developers and users to get any usage. | 00:19 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: you are wrong | 00:20 |
| djszapi | I have just said, we did make a nice workflow for this, even very well documented. | 00:20 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: can you point me to the documentation? | 00:20 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: sure, here you go: http://community.kde.org/KDE_Mobile/Harmattan#Packaging_your_KDE_Mobile_application_with_shared_libraries | 00:21 |
| djszapi | I can even cross-link tons of examples that implemented that. | 00:21 |
| djszapi | and of course, there is always the ministro way. | 00:22 |
| djszapi | btw, I do not think apps4meego is any good | 00:23 |
| djszapi | for the mass. | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ajalkane: but wait, 24 months from now harmattan is dead like a a dinosaur turd fossil, thanks to Nokia discontinued the OVI signing shit that's needed for anything on HARM to work, thanks to insane aegis concept of centralized trust chain | 00:23 |
| djszapi | what is not in ovi, that does not matter to me unless the apps4meego guys get the client built into the firmware which is very unlike. | 00:23 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: thanks... but isn't it waste of precious device space to include the same libs on every app? | 00:23 |
| ajalkane | DocScrutinizer05: can inception/open kernel be used to get around that shit? Nokia's going down very soon anyway. | 00:24 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: well, the answer is quite obvious | 00:24 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: 1) 2.8M/usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4.8.1 ( for instance ) | 00:24 |
| djszapi | 2) Ministro way | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ajalkane: it probably can, not though for the Nokia core apps | 00:25 |
| djszapi | I personally like the bundled stuff | 00:25 |
| djszapi | and I dislike distracting workflows etc | 00:25 |
| djszapi | but that is what you can do anyway | 00:25 |
| djszapi | sure, you could become a cooker chef, if you dislike the reality. | 00:25 |
| djszapi | but I still like hacking anyway, and this is what can be done anyway. =) | 00:25 |
| ajalkane | Sure can be done... but I seriously doubt anyone would want to include multi megabyte libraries in their application unless they get big practical gains for the application... not just some stuff that helps Qt5 become better. | 00:26 |
| djszapi | or shall I do ... what ? Lumia ? iPhone ? | 00:26 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: all the KDE apps do | 00:26 |
| djszapi | works fine without any issues | 00:27 |
| djszapi | I cannot share your worries at this point. | 00:27 |
| ajalkane | for KDE apps it's probably a practical thing. | 00:27 |
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| djszapi | and this is not just done by KDE anyway | 00:27 |
| djszapi | practically by any application using additional dependencies. | 00:27 |
| djszapi | I do not really see the difference between KDE and Qt in this regard... | 00:28 |
| ajalkane | DocScrutinizer05: that sucks. You're saying that once Elop's axe decapitates Nokia's head, the core apps won't work anymore? | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 00:28 |
| ajalkane | Damn annoying... | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they won't cease to work, but quite obviously you can't re-install them | 00:29 |
| djszapi | inception has been a big hack anyway | 00:29 |
| djszapi | nobody cared about nicely making a community kernel. | 00:29 |
| djszapi | which would have been the clean way anyway. | 00:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ////IGNORE!!!!! | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dmanit | 00:30 |
| djszapi | funky thing is that, people complain, but they do not actually do almost anything against what they dislioke. | 00:30 |
| djszapi | dislike* | 00:30 |
| ajalkane | DocScrutinizer05: Is that a big problem? I mean, in the worst case you can feflash the fw | 00:30 |
| djszapi | just trolling. | 00:30 |
| ajalkane | s/feflash/reflash | 00:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | when you reflash the firmware, where from will you get the additional apps? | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | those which need any friggin aegis tokens | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or whatever that'S called | 00:31 |
| djszapi | token is an entirely distinct thing... | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | where will you publish your new apps? | 00:32 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: so what do you propose ? | 00:32 |
| ajalkane | I'd thought either jonni's magical backup utility, or open kernel would help with that. But I know nothing about this subject. | 00:32 |
| djszapi | keep complaining, life sucks ? | 00:32 |
| djszapi | like people with aegis, and do nothing against it ? | 00:32 |
| djszapi | I am inclined to do actually something with the current ingredients anyway | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure you can install the (actually existing, nicely made) openmode kernel, but then again your whole aegis crap will go pooof | 00:33 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: no, I actually propose people experiment with Qt5 and hopefully come with a good workflow for it. It doesn't exist yet. | 00:33 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: what exactly does not exist ? | 00:33 |
| djszapi | I have just told you the workflow. | 00:33 |
| djszapi | what you can do. | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | incl all the apps that depend on aegis | 00:33 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: that workflow is KDE specific. We need easy, QtCreator based workflow that's easy for anyone getting their feet wet with harmattan development | 00:34 |
| djszapi | it is not. | 00:34 |
| djszapi | This theory has nothing to do with KDE. | 00:34 |
| djszapi | same applies to Android Qt, etc. | 00:34 |
| djszapi | we just happened to be the first group inventing these things. | 00:35 |
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| ajalkane | djszapi: I'm not a fan of the same multimega inclusion of libraries included in every app. Why not put them into some shared location? | 00:35 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: well, if you ignore me, then I am done. :) | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, afk | 00:36 |
| djszapi | 22:24 < djszapi> 2) Ministro way | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since this chan is "KILL KILL!!!!" without proper ignore list, and friggin boring and mindboggling with | 00:37 |
| ajalkane | lol doc | 00:37 |
| djszapi | "...I personally like the bundled stuff..." "...and I dislike distracting workflows etc..." | 00:37 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: I do not know the Ministro way, but I guess it's the libraries shared thingy? | 00:37 |
| ajalkane | Is that some kind of installer that downloads the libs if needed? | 00:38 |
| djszapi | so, you would make your users life hard | 00:38 |
| djszapi | with additional todos | 00:38 |
| djszapi | who cares about 2 MB+ ? | 00:38 |
| ajalkane | No the point is, users life should be easy, and devs life should be easy | 00:38 |
| djszapi | or 3 MB+ or 5 MB+ now ? | 00:38 |
| djszapi | minority | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody gives a shit about devels' life | 00:38 |
| djszapi | and of course stuff is not designed for the majority. | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's all about the end result, as this isn't a development platform where the devel is the end user | 00:39 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: yes... in Alice's world... | 00:39 |
| djszapi | you can make dev's life easier here or users' | 00:39 |
| djszapi | I prefer users' life having simpler. | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yet Nokia went over the top regarding this paradigm | 00:40 |
| ajalkane | DocScrutinizer05: except the devels themselves :). I sure as hell don't have time to run through hoops to get some "latest gratest" working, unless there's a real good reason for it | 00:40 |
| * RST38h farts | 00:40 | |
| ajalkane | djszapi: I dunno... to me those are pretty big sizes. Especially as 3mb/5mb is just the core library. Then there's the others libs on top of that. | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ajalkane: then stick with ... gtk? MTF? maybe even Qt? | 00:42 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: again who cares ? | 00:42 |
| djszapi | until there are tons of applications, when the need arises for fixing ? | 00:42 |
| ajalkane | DocScrutinizer05: On Harmattan QML + C++ works well | 00:42 |
| djszapi | We are talking about boosting a project | 00:42 |
| djszapi | walking step by step | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as there's never been a reaaly sound reason for all this framework_of_the_month madness | 00:42 |
| * RST38h sighs and notices how they are talking about completely wrong things | 00:43 | |
| djszapi | and "sure as hell", bundled stuff is way easier to deal with for end users Joe | 00:43 |
| *** hardaker has quit IRC | 00:43 | |
| RST38h | The topic should be making/keeping project RELEVANT | 00:43 |
| djszapi | than getting dependencies right "on their own"./ | 00:43 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders how to make his farts relevant | 00:43 | |
| *** tom___ has quit IRC | 00:44 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as yet another dalvik-2-epigone on a walking dead platform like HARM foir sure isn't | 00:45 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: I can only talk about myself, but I'm not going to arbitrarily make my application 10-20 times its size just to boosting Qt5 project, unless my application uses something that benefits greatly from that increase in size | 00:45 |
| djszapi | well, you will not help Qt5 make a success that way :) | 00:45 |
| djszapi | but I do not worry too much about your involvement anyway. | 00:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | when does the ovi x.509 certificate expire | 00:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | when do the repository signing gpg keys expire (if they ever do) | 00:46 |
| djszapi | we will still do the job. | 00:46 |
| djszapi | since we like Qt anyway. | 00:47 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: Even if I would use qt5, my contribution would not make qt5 success. I simply don't have time to contribute to qt5. If I was paid to work on Qt related technology, things would be different. | 00:47 |
| djszapi | perhaps, you do not know what contribution means. | 00:48 |
| djszapi | or rather: you define that differently than the rest of us, contributors. | 00:48 |
| ajalkane | Perhaps | 00:48 |
| djszapi | contributor is even any simpler tester, bug reporter, etc | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ajalkane: why should your contribution to HARM / maemo help qt5 anyway? what's the benefit for HARM in that? | 00:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, have all those customers bought N9 to support qt devels or what? | 00:49 |
| djszapi | to be honest, I have not felt recently this hostile atmosphere towards Qt5 recently, but whatever. | 00:49 |
| ajalkane | DocScrutinizer05: I know too little about all the details of Qt5, but from the little I know the main advantages of Qt5 on Harmattan would be efficiency of QML and 3D. Basically QML based games would benefit.' | 00:50 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: absolutely wrong | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to make qt5 a better framework, and devels' life a breeze | 00:50 |
| djszapi | that is the only thing which would not change most likely. | 00:50 |
| djszapi | opengl remains opengl like I siad. | 00:50 |
| djszapi | said* | 00:51 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 suggests a short look into python history, and (lacking) success of python3, and maybe learn from the sad story | 00:52 | |
| ajalkane | DocScrutinizer05: But really when you get down to it, my interest of Qt5 on harmattan is because I got into the Maemo summer '12 Qt5 device program. That's the basis of my interest in it. | 00:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh shit | 00:53 |
| ajalkane | That's why I'm looking into it, and trying to see if there's some smart way to go about it | 00:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's 4 harmattan repo signing keys expiring in 2012 | 00:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | october 3rd, specifically | 00:53 |
| ajalkane | october you say? Hmm... I'm smelling a master plan somewhere in Elop's nest. | 00:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the appsformeego key doesn't expire until 2020 and the maemosw and genss keys don't ever expire | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | itsnotabigtruck: goood! so maybe just maybe Nokia will refresh them before they fire the only guy knowing how to do that | 00:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the expiring ones are "nokia repository signing key Nv1" | 00:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so the question is whether those keys are actually used to sign the 001 etc. repositories | 00:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if not, then it's a false alarm | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but then, otoh, what's the use of signing keys when nobody is around to use them (you know it's always key pairs. sure you do) | 00:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | to verify signatures generated via those keys | 00:56 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: well, essentially you look at Qt5 from different angle than us, hackers of that. | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and what if you need a new signature? | 00:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is needed as long as harmattan phones are around | 00:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and probably fremantle too | 00:57 |
| djszapi | we wanna make that a success, but you do not give a shit about that, just use that if it is ever available. | 00:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer05: what? as long as the content doesn't change, which probably won't be happening if nokia closes shop >_> | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, on fremantle we live happily without any such signatures basically | 00:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the signatures are valid as long as the key is valid | 00:57 |
| djszapi | "nicely", that is. Whatever it means, I have not already said. | 00:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and i'd bet you'd find you're incorrect | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are some, but not that essentially important to the whole thing | 00:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | as with most things | 00:57 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: You summarized it it pretty well. | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, thanks for reminding me | 00:58 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: well, it is fine. It is healthy, if you are not enthusiast and biased about Qt. :) | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | another ignore | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | friggin insane channel | 00:59 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: we are desperate dudes xD | 00:59 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: I like Qt, but my free time is really limited. If I had more time, I'd probably hack even on Qt. But now I barely have time to do some small applications. And even that half-assed. | 00:59 |
| djszapi | well, the reason does not matter in the end. | 01:00 |
| djszapi | you are not biased and enthusiast to put work into that for whatever reasons. | 01:00 |
| ajalkane | I'd like to put that on my tombstone. "ajalkane was not biased" | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | isn't it significant how those who shout at each other the most are most identical in their twisted ways | 01:01 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 heads over to tmo ca thread, fetches some more popcorn | 01:01 | |
| ajalkane | I recommend some good wine with the popcorn! | 01:02 |
| djszapi | with your mentality there would be no KDE4 | 01:04 |
| djszapi | or perhaps even prior KDE versions | 01:05 |
| djszapi | when QGV came out, that was a royal PITA to use with full of bugs, on top of which, Plasma has been based. | 01:05 |
| ajalkane | I think there would. | 01:05 |
| djszapi | hard to use, so do not use. | 01:05 |
| djszapi | but even in this case, I do not see what is hard | 01:06 |
| djszapi | afaict, I have enumerated the available two approaches. | 01:06 |
| djszapi | both are pretty simple to implement. | 01:07 |
| ajalkane | Maybe I just suck, but I think it would take me many hours to get it working. | 01:07 |
| djszapi | to write one line for a shared library into your control file ? | 01:08 |
| djszapi | rules* | 01:08 |
| ajalkane | Remember, I don't use cmake | 01:08 |
| djszapi | what has debian packaging to do with cmake wrt the rules file and simple copy? | 01:08 |
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| ajalkane | I dunno. Maybe the packaging is really easy. Frankly I haven't even gotten that far. I've used many hours just to get the qt5 cross-complation + QtCreator to work together well | 01:10 |
| djszapi | why would you cross-compile ? | 01:11 |
| djszapi | in the first place. | 01:11 |
| djszapi | they usually provide up to date qt5 packages. | 01:11 |
| ajalkane | If I'm using alpha releases I like to be able to compile them myself. Especially if I need to modify something. | 01:11 |
| djszapi | why would you modify something, if you do not have time? | 01:12 |
| ajalkane | if I have no other choice, ie. it will speed up my progress | 01:12 |
| djszapi | but I can understand your painy, if you do not do nicely... | 01:13 |
| djszapi | and you ignore the simplifcation they do... | 01:13 |
| djszapi | perhaps, you could try out the packages. | 01:14 |
| djszapi | you will love it. | 01:14 |
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| M4rtinK | from my perspective until there are Python bindings for it, Qt 5 is pretty irrelevant for me | 01:15 |
| ajalkane | Maybe. But I didn't have huge problems compiling them. I'm mostly battling QtCreator now. | 01:15 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: lol... | 01:15 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: that makes no sense | 01:16 |
| djszapi | I mean python is obviously not available for something which is not even released or close that anyway | 01:16 |
| djszapi | to* | 01:16 |
| djszapi | but yes, there are people already making researches afaict | 01:16 |
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| djszapi | ajalkane: drop qtcreator | 01:17 |
| djszapi | your problem is that crapcreator, not qt5! | 01:17 |
| ajalkane | haha, might be | 01:17 |
| djszapi | too bad we have had to spend few hours to localize the real problem... | 01:17 |
| djszapi | which is unrelated to qt5... | 01:18 |
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| M4rtinK | djszapi: yeah, I know, it would not be very wise to start building the bindings until things are more stabilized | 01:19 |
| M4rtinK | but the lack of bindings still means a can't use it at the moment :) | 01:19 |
| ajalkane | Well, IMO to gain in development popularity in harm it should be easy in QtCreator | 01:20 |
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| djszapi | ajalkane: your problem is not with Qt5 | 01:20 |
| djszapi | your problem is with QtCreator. | 01:20 |
| ajalkane | My problem is with dev ease + user ease. And I don't even think I have real problem, as I think these can be solved. | 01:21 |
| djszapi | It is not something many people working on Qt5 including me will ever fix this for you. | 01:21 |
| djszapi | simply because many qt devs dislike qtcreator. | 01:21 |
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| ajalkane | I bet the QtCreator folks are in love with it | 01:22 |
| djszapi | then butter them up | 01:22 |
| djszapi | cannot find pleasure in helping with this, L( | 01:22 |
| djszapi | :) | 01:22 |
| ajalkane | Too late, Elops's coming with an axe | 01:22 |
| M4rtinK | I think dependency handling is more serious that Qt Creator support | 01:23 |
| djszapi | you mean "than" or "supports" ? | 01:24 |
| M4rtinK | *than | 01:24 |
| djszapi | and what is incomplete or incorrect what I mentioned about that issue afore ? | 01:25 |
| M4rtinK | I'm just saying what I think is more important | 01:27 |
| djszapi | right, but what is not done deal about that? | 01:27 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: pretty please, just ask for the total removal of the project instead of help :) | 01:28 |
| djszapi | (qtcreator, that is lol...) | 01:28 |
| M4rtinK | if that KDE developed shared library scheme is generic enough for non-Qt apps, than everything is fine :) | 01:29 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: No need, Elop is slowly crossing from Finland's Lapland towards Norway as we chat | 01:29 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: it is. | 01:29 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: who cares about Elop ? | 01:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yay, i got docscrutinizer to ignore me >_> | 01:29 |
| M4rtinK | ..but i still thing "proper" package management would work too :) | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i am probably being a bit cranky right now :( | 01:30 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: if any, I would talk about MeeGo as the culsprit. | 01:30 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: yeah, I know many people were blindly following the "new wave" dictated, but that has not made that good itself. | 01:31 |
| ajalkane | Elop's the one swinging the axe. You know he likes to do it. | 01:31 |
| djszapi | Elop did not decide about MeeGo. | 01:32 |
| djszapi | which twisted Nokia into a kinda desperate state. | 01:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Things went icky with maemo way before Elop. | 01:33 |
| ajalkane | No matter... he's the executioner.' | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: he clearly decided to abort meego | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | most decisions can't be traced all the way up to the ceo, but this one can | 01:33 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: it was a wrack at Elop times. | 01:33 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - ovi store stopped working what - ~6mo in | 01:33 |
| djszapi | already. | 01:33 |
| djszapi | even before that. | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also...what do you mean "ovi store stopped working" | 01:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what happened | 01:34 |
| SpeedEvil | itsnotabigtruck: Ovi store was for a while to be how commercial apps were distributed on n900 | 01:34 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: again, how cares about the meego cancellation ? | 01:34 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: the most appropriate question: why was MeeGo born in the first place ? | 01:34 |
| djszapi | mostly to kill Maemo totally. | 01:35 |
| djszapi | to commit suicide about the only proven platform. | 01:35 |
| djszapi | this makes me sad again :-S | 01:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: that sounds a bit conspiratorial...why would they cook up some fancy plan to "kill maemo" when it would easily do that on its own, with time | 01:35 |
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| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: N9 was (still is) people like | 01:36 |
| djszapi | it is shiny etc | 01:36 |
| djszapi | and this was achieved by 50% of available resources, if not more. | 01:36 |
| djszapi | and I am *not* speculating here. | 01:36 |
| djszapi | I *was* shared between the two projects. | 01:36 |
| djszapi | if not less* | 01:37 |
| djszapi | and even meego, why the darn loosy Intel ? :o | 01:38 |
| djszapi | at least not the rpi foundation, but not much better... | 01:40 |
| djszapi | Perhaps there were even big problems before establishing MeeGo, but that was surely a big head cut. | 01:44 |
| M4rtinK | and now for something completely different | 01:44 |
| M4rtinK | anyone got an idea how to add an element to MenuLayout ? | 01:45 |
| M4rtinK | I have a menu layout with a Quit button on Fremantle | 01:45 |
| M4rtinK | which is of course useless on Harmattan | 01:46 |
| M4rtinK | any way how to do this cleanly without using two almost similar MenuLayouts ? | 01:46 |
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| djszapi | M4rtinK: sorry ? | 02:04 |
| djszapi | Could you please clarify what you mean ? | 02:04 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: ? | 02:04 |
| M4rtinK | any idea about the MenuLayout ? | 02:05 |
| djszapi | well, I would like to help, but I have no clue what you are talking about. xD | 02:05 |
| djszapi | what is "MenuLayout" ? | 02:06 |
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| M4rtinK | djszapi: I have this: https://github.com/M4rtinK/mieru/blob/master/gui/qml/MainView.qml#L235 | 02:06 |
| M4rtinK | and want the "Quit" MenuItem to not show up on Harmattan | 02:07 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: the good old qml ifdef question... | 02:09 |
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| djszapi | M4rtinK: well, make a separate item with your customized menu item | 02:09 |
| djszapi | having a boolean property for enabling the quit... | 02:09 |
| djszapi | hmm, that would not actually help | 02:11 |
| djszapi | well, you could have a C++ accessor for getting the platform. | 02:12 |
| djszapi | and set the visibl property of the quit thingy | 02:12 |
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| M4rtinK | well, its not a problem to disable it | 02:13 |
| M4rtinK | but to do that without any graphical glitches | 02:14 |
| M4rtinK | if I set visible : false and height : 0 | 02:14 |
| M4rtinK | it won't show up but the menu bottom is not round anymore | 02:14 |
| M4rtinK | I've also tried adding the Quit button to a second menu layout anchored on the first one | 02:15 |
| M4rtinK | but that renders as two menu layouts with a small gap between them | 02:16 |
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| trx | M4rtinK did you try to destroy() it in some eg. onCompleted ? | 02:25 |
| trx | actually that won't work :/ | 02:26 |
| jonni | M4rtinK: its easier just to ifdef in c++ side, so it loads different mainview in harmattan. | 02:28 |
| jonni | although there is no harm having quit item in the menulayout, I usually keep the quit item there even on harmattan.. | 02:29 |
| trx | me too | 02:29 |
| M4rtinK | trx: it works. :) | 02:30 |
| trx | it does? | 02:31 |
| trx | thats.. unexpected :) | 02:31 |
| M4rtinK | and it does exactly what I wanted :) | 02:33 |
| M4rtinK | eq. no glitches and layout duplication :) | 02:34 |
| M4rtinK | lets call it "QML sculpting" :) | 02:34 |
| trx | great :) | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi jonni! :-) | 02:38 |
| jonni | ;) | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how's living? | 02:39 |
| jonni | well life is what it is, I'm one of the 3700 who is getting booted in Finland in few months :). But interesting times ahead, 2 job interviews booked on next week. | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good, at least for the 2nd half of this mess | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good luck! | 02:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :( | 02:42 |
| M4rtinK | trx: this is how it looks like in the end: https://github.com/M4rtinK/mieru/blob/master/gui/qml/MainView.qml#L258 | 02:42 |
| jonni | and if I dont find anything in finland, then I can always move to south africa, amazon has open positions in cape town :) | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hey :-D | 02:43 |
| M4rtinK | trx: and thanks a lot ! I was just about to start with the ParrentChange animation :) | 02:43 |
| jonni | someone from there already asked if any of us would be interested ;) | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonni: and, are you? | 02:44 |
| trx | M4rtinK thats exactly what i had in mind, but then i remembered that i have read in the docs that objects that you define staticaly in qml can't be destroy()'ed | 02:45 |
| trx | "it would produce an error" | 02:45 |
| trx | M4rtinK no problem, happy to help | 02:45 |
| jonni | Doc: heh, I have a wife, so if there salary would be 2x higher than normally then sure :) | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, I see | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I often felt similar | 02:46 |
| jonni | heh, ofcourse it could be possible, dont know what amazon offers :) | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | last time when I considered to move to Tampere ;-D | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now I'm glad I didn't | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 02:47 |
| jonni | well Tampere still seems to have plenty of IT startups and companies in the region. Its just nokia which isnt hiring anymore. | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, and I'd for sure be in those 3700 as well, when I did | 02:48 |
| RST38h | RiM is still hiring =) | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 02:49 |
| jonni | but RiM doesnt have office in finland :) | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I recently chatted with them | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | didn't look where from the mail came | 02:50 |
| jonni | I didn try to download BB10 SDK and simulator, but failed miserabely to get SDK to deploy QML helloworld to simulator, so tooling side still needs improvements. | 02:51 |
| M4rtinK | trx: I haven't seen any errors - so it indeed seems to work just fine :) | 02:51 |
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| M4rtinK | FYI: there is a working PySide port for BB10 & Qt-Components are also reportedly running on the Playbook just fine :) | 02:52 |
| RST38h | Doc, how have you managed to transdickify Estel? | 02:53 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | jonni: just replied on teh thread | 03:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hopefully i don't appear to be overly hostile | 03:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and good luck with your job search | 03:04 |
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| jonni | itsnotabigtruck: it was an ok reply. Even I felt wronged when they dismissed my application, but I have realised that there is nothing much that can be done, community has voted council as dictators, and in any resolution someone will get disapointed, if end results are adjusted then those that won and it would be taked away from them, would also cause bad blood. But yes everyone is free to have their own opinions, but there is no | 03:11 |
| jonni | resolution to problem which would make everyone happy. | 03:11 |
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| jonni | (or there resolution would be for developer relations to issue 20 extra devices out of nowhere, but thats a bit unlikely scenario) | 03:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jonni: heh | 03:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, it's quite obvious that a solution that makes everyone happy is impossible | 03:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | certainly not now that it's so heated | 03:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but either the councilors are in the wrong or they're in the right, and if they're in the wrong, why does the solution need to make them happy | 03:16 |
| heymaster | Hello, all. How to cast qsqltablemodel to qobject ? | 03:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heymaster: ... (QObject *)foo ? | 03:18 |
| heymaster | itsnotabigtruck: ok | 03:18 |
| heymaster | will try | 03:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'd strongly recommend you read some c++ tutorials before writing anything with qt | 03:18 |
| heymaster | hehe :) | 03:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you'll save a lot of pain and tears | 03:18 |
| heymaster | i know :) | 03:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and in general all QSomething objects derive from QObject | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: eh? | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: dict transdickify | 03:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but also you need to know how pointers (and references) work in c++ | 03:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heymaster ^ | 03:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you copy/paste that c-style cast i wrote it probably won't work | 03:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and you can't upcast non-reference/pointer values | 03:20 |
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| RST38h | Doc: TRANSDICKIFY (verb) - Magically turn someone into a dick. | 03:20 |
| heymaster | itsnotabigtruck: ok, will search for info | 03:21 |
| heymaster | itsnotabigtruck: qobject_cast<QObject*>(model) ; | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: ooh, didn't realize *I* did that ;-D | 03:22 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | heymaster: qobject_cast is unnecessary if you're upcasting | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: however if I did, then probably by outright and sternly disagreeing on shipping custom kernel with CSSU-S/T | 03:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | static_cast is just fine | 03:23 |
| heymaster | itsnotabigtruck: ok :) what is means upcasting ? | 03:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the C-style cast (type)value is a compact way of writing a static/reinterpret/const cast | 03:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | again, you need to read about c++ | 03:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm trying to help but i'm not particularly interested in explaining c++ fundamentals | 03:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you need to know those *first* before diving in the deep end | 03:25 |
| heymaster | itsnotabigtruck: it means QObject derived object casts to QObject ? | 03:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, it means casting up the hierarchy | 03:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | toward the root | 03:25 |
| heymaster | ok :) | 03:25 |
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| heymaster | Can I create QSqlTableModel cast it to QObject and export to QML ? | 04:23 |
| heymaster | And assign to ListView Model ? | 04:24 |
| heymaster | I get error MainPage.qml:90: Unable to assign a function to a property. | 04:24 |
| heymaster | I rewrote model: server.getModel() | 04:25 |
| heymaster | ReferenceError: Can't find variable: name | 04:25 |
| heymaster | I get 3 error messages, exactly as my model has | 04:27 |
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| heymaster | http://qt-project.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_QSqlQueryModel_in_QML << I will try this | 04:35 |
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| heymaster | it worked :) | 05:47 |
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| ZogG_N9 | morning | 06:40 |
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| ladoga | rzr: packages with user/* fix (so they can be removed using phone's UI) and a minor description fix are at my ftp http://www.saunalahti.fi/ladoga/harmattan/yle-dl/ | 11:07 |
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| denism | does anybody know - is Qt-on-Pi dead already? Looking for something else than my N9 / Tegra2 Trimslice. | 11:13 |
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| Lava_Croft | i want to slowly murder the person responsible for screwing up the n9 camera | 12:22 |
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| Velmont | :| | 12:34 |
| Velmont | jonni: Opera also needs people, Sweden is kinda close to Finland :] | 12:39 |
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| dm8tbr | I thought opera was from .no ... | 12:46 |
| rzr | http://www.arabtimesonline.com/NewsDetails/tabid/96/smid/414/ArticleID/184798/reftab/73/t/Nokia-cuts-to-claim-850-jobs/Default.aspx | 12:46 |
| Velmont | dm8tbr: Yeah, but sweden is closer to Finland. -- But yeah, I would like more people coming to Opera HQ, so then I don't have to be newest hire in my team anymore :P | 12:47 |
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| rzr | wasnt there a rumour that fb will swallow opera ? | 12:49 |
| alterego | Sounds like a stretch | 12:50 |
| alterego | Someone should just buy the Salo factory .. | 12:50 |
| alterego | If I had millions I'd do it .. | 12:50 |
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| HtheB | hi | 12:51 |
| Velmont | rzr: Rumors are just that. I have no faith in it. | 12:54 |
| rzr | i have no faith at all | 12:54 |
| Velmont | Well, i think that was a wrong word to use, -- I don't think there's anything to it, I should've said. | 12:55 |
| HtheB | does anyone have some knowledge about hildon desktop? | 12:56 |
| rzr | not that much that stuff seems orphaned now | 12:56 |
| HtheB | rzr, we are trying to get maemo5 running in chroot | 12:56 |
| HtheB | for harmattan | 12:57 |
| HtheB | we managed many stuff already but there is still some stuff to do | 12:57 |
| HtheB | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84987 | 12:57 |
| HtheB | please have a look | 12:57 |
| rzr | HtheB, i tried that one too | 12:59 |
| rzr | best would be to build xephyr | 12:59 |
| HtheB | explain please | 12:59 |
| rzr | see | 13:00 |
| rzr | http://rzr.online.fr/q/ubuntu | 13:00 |
| rzr | we could do the same w/ m5 | 13:00 |
| rzr | we just need this dawn x server xephyr | 13:00 |
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| HtheB | hmmm | 13:01 |
| HtheB | got time? :) | 13:01 |
| HtheB | lets try it | 13:01 |
| rzr | what ? | 13:02 |
| HtheB | building xephyr? :p | 13:03 |
| HtheB | (to be honest, I think I didn't get it yet) | 13:03 |
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| rzr | no you got it :) | 13:16 |
| rzr | mer.deb did built it maybe that package will work | 13:16 |
| rzr | see what i mean ? | 13:17 |
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| rzr | http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://developers.solidot.org/developers/12/06/23/1026242.shtml&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://developers.solidot.org/developers/12/06/23/1026242.shtml%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-beta%26hs%3DBFX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Dimvns&sa=X&ei=YRnmT8bIBsrB8gO-8bm1Cg&ved=0CCcQ7gEwAA | 13:20 |
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| HtheB | hmmm | 13:28 |
| rzr | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1226657#post1226657 | 13:29 |
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| HtheB | did someone made that package already before? | 13:32 |
| rzr | in m5 ? dont think so , but in mer yes | 13:33 |
| HtheB | youre the compile master | 13:33 |
| HtheB | (re)compiling stuff is your best thing | 13:33 |
| HtheB | :p | 13:33 |
| rzr | HtheB, i have harmattan tool chain , not fremantle here | 13:33 |
| HtheB | booo | 13:34 |
| HtheB | it is for harmattan though | 13:34 |
| rzr | should be easy to setup but i am short on disk | 13:34 |
| HtheB | arghh | 13:34 |
| rzr | no we should build it on m5 | 13:34 |
| rzr | since we will run it from the chroot right ? | 13:34 |
| HtheB | true | 13:36 |
| HtheB | but somehow we just couldnt get that stupid hildon desktop to work | 13:36 |
| rzr | well i used to start mer inside diable | 13:37 |
| dymaxion | Hi, has anyone had experience with using the N9 with external USB based power packs? I have one that offers both 5V/1A and 5V/2A outputs, however neither can charge the N9. I think it must be some firmware bug. The OS reports that there is not enough power to charge. Don't know why the N9 can't pull enough current? Anyone else seen this problem? | 13:37 |
| rzr | well i used to start mer inside diablo | 13:37 |
| HtheB | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1225906#post1225906 | 13:37 |
| HtheB | see last post | 13:37 |
| rzr | dymaxion, i used one on my n950 | 13:37 |
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| dymaxion | rzr, ever any problems? I've tried it on 2 other phones, no problem (one iPhone 3G, one Samsung GNote) so can only assume it's the N9 that has the problem. but whether it's my phone or the OS I don't know... | 13:38 |
| rzr | we can compare the specs of our packs what's yours | 13:40 |
| dymaxion | mine is an Aigo - PB8020 powerpack 8000mAh | 13:42 |
| rzr | mine | 13:45 |
| rzr | http://xoopardesign.com/products/product.php?id=34 | 13:45 |
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| dymaxion | cute powerpack! :-) Mine's this one http://www.aigo.com.hk/products/100-aigo-new-designed-power-pack-pb8020use-for-ipad2.aspx | 13:50 |
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| rzr | yours is 8k mine 1.5 | 13:59 |
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| ZogG_laptop | is it good? | 14:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'm thinking to buy one | 14:08 |
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| jonni | dymaxion: here's is how to make your external powerpacks detected http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83519&page=2 | 14:09 |
| dymaxion | It's good... nice design... i like the soft touch plastic coating... and it's got interchangable connectors for diff phones... (only cost me 300 HKD over here :-) | 14:10 |
| dymaxion | thanks jonni, I'll have a look at this... | 14:10 |
| jonni | basicly just get small usb flex adapter and short d+ and d- pins. | 14:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | jonni: i missed the point of it? if i use native cable it wouldn't detect it? | 14:12 |
| dymaxion | so basically the solution at the mo is to short the data pins so that the N9 doesn't detect it as a data/pc connection.. and thus will just charge.. | 14:13 |
| jonni | ZogG_laptop: yep native cable would not detect it... or it you if you short circuit d+ and d- in native cable. Its just easier and cheaper to shortcircuit the adapter. | 14:13 |
| jonni | s/it/it would/ | 14:14 |
| infobot | jonni meant: ZogG_laptop: yep native cable would not detect it would... or it you if you short circuit d+ and d- in native cable. Its just easier and cheaper to shortcircuit the adapter. | 14:14 |
| jonni | blah bad search/replace. | 14:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | oh, the difference that it would detect it as computer/data? i can live with it for as long as it still charges | 14:15 |
| jonni | but anyways if you want to use powerpacks that are normally designed for ipads, then you need to do that kind of hack. | 14:15 |
| jonni | yes, after the shortcircuit it alwayus detects it as charger and not as comp/data. | 14:16 |
| dymaxion | jonni, so the question is why is it if it detects as comp/data why won't it still charge? if I plugged phone into computer it would charge so both use cases should still charge. | 14:17 |
| jonni | dymaxion: because it doesnt detect it at all, as ipad chargers use non standard detection methods. | 14:17 |
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| dymaxion | I see... so in the intiial chat, where it's talking by whatevver voltage signing mechanism... the N9 thinks the battery is talking in klingon | 14:18 |
| jonni | yep | 14:19 |
| dymaxion | damm you apple !!! | 14:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | jonni: and how it works with android? | 14:20 |
| jonni | but anyways its really easy fix, and total cost is around 2-3 euroes and 5 minutes time. | 14:20 |
| dymaxion | i hate the way they always do things different just to break the standard mould... grr... well glad I have some spare micro usb cables around!..... only prob left my soldering iron overseas... | 14:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | s/how it works/how does it work/ | 14:20 |
| infobot | ZogG_laptop meant: jonni: and how does it work with android? | 14:20 |
| dymaxion | well if the N9 firmware got programmed with some extra knowledge of the iPad charge protoocol it would then be able to talk to it... but i guess that would never happen.... so no point trying! | 14:21 |
| jonni | ZogG_laptop: no idea, I havent seen any android phones yet in my life :) | 14:21 |
| dymaxion | android must either ignore all that and by default just charge like a dumb phone :-) | 14:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | jonni: they have usb to micro-usb as we do | 14:21 |
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| dymaxion | my "ipad compatible" battery pack works with my g/f android phone... I'm gonna try it with my other symbian nokia 500 see what happens! | 14:22 |
| jonni | most likely they just ignore and accept the nonstandard thingie. | 14:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | dymaxion: afaik there is program for power for n9 and if it works like n900 it's not really nice | 14:22 |
| jonni | and the other adventage is also that normally data cables are only charged as 500mA, but with shortcircuit you get it on wall mode, so it charger 1A atleast | 14:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | jonni: is it healthy for phone? | 14:23 |
| jonni | ZogG_laptop: its healty, the wall charger that comes with the phone uses 1A. | 14:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | jonni: i don't use it btw, i use n900's charger =( | 14:24 |
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| jonni | you get 2x faster charging with that compared to n900 charger :) | 14:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | as i got american socket and gave my adapter to grandpa with old laptop =( | 14:24 |
| jonni | heh get new adapter from dealextreme :) | 14:25 |
| dymaxion | well the android phone charges at 1A even from the battery... so it must just have some mechanism where it tries and ramps up the current and see how much the USB device/battery/comp can giev | 14:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | i hope the one i'll get in future would have normal socket | 14:25 |
| dymaxion | i wonder what the charge curve would be like for a 2A supply which my battery pack can provide.. prob fry the battery! :-) | 14:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | jonni: i think to buy new charger, but i can't find good one, i want original from nokia, the ones with speed boost =) | 14:26 |
| dymaxion | unless the N9 will just draw a max of 1A.. | 14:26 |
| dymaxion | would be interested to get a Dev involved with the N9 to explain how the N9 is programmed to charge... | 14:26 |
| jonni | well yes with inception you should be able to patch bme to force wall mode, but I havent bothered to code it. was easier to make the adapter. | 14:29 |
| dymaxion | true... :-) jonni, btw did you ever check what charging behaviour does the N9 exhibit with the data lines on open circuit rather than shorted to ground? | 14:36 |
| jonni | usually it does 500mA or 100mA or just 0. | 14:37 |
| jonni | depending on what data lines tells the device behind it is. | 14:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | jonni: so it's bme also in N9? | 14:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | it is crap and closed like was in N900? | 14:44 |
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| Kozzi | hurhur | 15:06 |
| Kozzi | s/hurhur/haha | 15:07 |
| Kozzi | hmm | 15:07 |
| Kozzi | s/hurhur/haha/ | 15:07 |
| Kozzi | hurhur | 15:07 |
| Kozzi | s/hurhur/haha/ | 15:07 |
| infobot | Kozzi meant: haha | 15:07 |
| Kozzi | Hah! | 15:07 |
| Kozzi | nice.. | 15:07 |
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| * Lava_Croft grumbles some more at N9 camera | 17:00 | |
| Lava_Croft | by the time the camera was loaded, the heavy thunderstorm passed by | 17:00 |
| Lava_Croft | >_< | 17:00 |
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| Venemo | lol | 17:07 |
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| MohammadAG | Two N950 fatalities? | 17:29 |
| Lava_Croft | someone killed two N950s? | 17:29 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer: Said I did :p | 17:30 |
| Lava_Croft | :o | 17:31 |
| Lava_Croft | ill take any broken n950's too | 17:31 |
| Lava_Croft | just to stroke it | 17:31 |
| Lava_Croft | so, did you? :) | 17:31 |
| Lava_Croft | i mean, how does one get two n950s in the first place | 17:31 |
| jonni | you just need to win enough competitions... | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | that sounds too much like work to me | 17:37 |
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| Kozzi | wow the CA mess is more interesting than I though it would be | 19:14 |
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| rzr | http://vimeo.com/44567643 | 19:25 |
| dymaxion | I tell you what annoys me about the N9 camera... is it's focus problems in high brightness / contrast scenarios.. | 19:25 |
| dymaxion | (stage lighting) | 19:26 |
| dymaxion | I was really really annoyed as it couldn't focus in both video and photo mode... | 19:26 |
| dymaxion | was overexposed too.. so had to manually dial down the exp comp... | 19:26 |
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| dymaxion | I was performing at the Mont Blanc opening party in Beijing... and had loads of hollywood movie stars on stage so close... but I couldn't get good shots...! whereas... sad to say it.. but there were some iphone 4s users nearby who shot with zero problems... | 19:27 |
| dymaxion | sigh :-( | 19:27 |
| rzr | the council has been setup my mr flop :-) | 19:27 |
| Kozzi | the video is passworded | 19:28 |
| rzr | Kozzi, cant you see it ? | 19:28 |
| Kozzi | nope | 19:28 |
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| Kozzi | dymaxion: I'm more annoyed at the amount of noise | 19:28 |
| rzr | too bad i can | 19:28 |
| rzr | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1226754#post1226754 | 19:29 |
| Kozzi | This is a private video. Do you have permission to watch it? If so please provide the correct password. | 19:29 |
| rzr | i could at least | 19:29 |
| Kozzi | oh I was able to watch a moment a go.. | 19:29 |
| dymaxion | well I'd rather have noise (although yes I don't like the noise on the N9) but to miss the shot completely is worse than having the shot wiht some noise! | 19:29 |
| rzr | same oen at bottom | 19:30 |
| rzr | http://symbian-developers.net/nokia-air-cloud-storage-by-nokia-to-come-soon/ | 19:30 |
| Kozzi | wall I don't take pictures that often anyway but seeing those shots my N9 remind me of those taken by 5800 | 19:30 |
| Kozzi | I don't like ths development | 19:31 |
| Kozzi | cloud service is okay but having to rely on cloud services sucks | 19:31 |
| jonni | usually it helps when you remove the plastic protection screen in front of the lens ;) | 19:34 |
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| heymaster | Any good qml tutorial for functions, variables or it's not QML and I need to learn JS ? :P | 21:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | mostly js | 21:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | afaik | 21:22 |
| heymaster | I hate JS and never used it :) | 21:22 |
| heymaster | Any good JS crash course tutorial ? ;) | 21:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | http://www.codecademy.com/ | 21:27 |
| heymaster | too much time consuming :) | 21:28 |
| heymaster | I known programming basics, used many languages, but haven't mastered programming :) | 21:30 |
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| heymaster | Looks like learning syntax every time :) | 21:31 |
| heymaster | I', searching something like "instant python" tutorial, but for JS | 21:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | than try the request in google | 21:34 |
| heymaster | ok :) | 21:34 |
| heymaster | http://eloquentjavascript.net/contents.html << looks like I found good tutorial/book | 21:39 |
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| heymaster | What component to use to make few labels with textedit fields ? Any grouping is needed ? | 23:03 |
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| heymaster | us Item and anchor ? | 23:32 |
| heymaster | use* | 23:32 |
| piggz | heymaster: could also use grid | 23:33 |
| heymaster | piggz: thanks | 23:34 |
| beford | anyone have had problems with scratchbox? like after installing it everything works, but after rebooting the machine it stops working? | 23:44 |
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