| Anssi138 | does this work: /sbin/initctl start ssh | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| Anssi138 | i don't have device here. | 00:01 |
| kuenx | It said 'ssh start/running, process 4015'. But ps shows nothing | 00:03 |
| Anssi138 | you can try connecting locally. | 00:03 |
| kuenx | I might have messed some things things up when following tutorials on how to get SSH access to work again | 00:04 |
| kuenx | you mean ssh to 127.0.0.1? | 00:04 |
| Anssi138 | ye, or localhost. | 00:04 |
| kuenx | connection refused as root | 00:04 |
| kuenx | also as user | 00:05 |
| Anssi138 | you can start the developer mode and try with that developer user. | 00:05 |
| Anssi138 | that should work | 00:05 |
| kuenx | nope, developer user also refuses connection | 00:06 |
| kuenx | developer mode is on | 00:06 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | there's some major weirdness related to developer-mode turning ssh on and off | 00:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you install openssh-server, it enables ssh | 00:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then if you install developer-mode it stays enabled | 00:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then if you remove it, it turns it back off | 00:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and so on | 00:07 |
| kuenx | itsnotabigtruck: Can I just install openssh-server with apt from the nokia repo? | 00:08 |
| Anssi138 | there are developer mode start&stop scripts somewhere. those are probably not most robust. | 00:08 |
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| Anssi138 | kuenx: so the ssh server is not running? ps -ef | grep ssh | 00:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | kuenx: yeah | 00:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you can install all the dev mode stuff individually | 00:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the catch-22 is that it's tricky to do so if dev mode isn't already on | 00:09 |
| jabis | with developer mode on devel-su - and passwd user / passwd developr to enable logon | 00:09 |
| jabis | *developer even | 00:10 |
| kuenx | itsnotabigtruck: openssh-server was already installed | 00:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah | 00:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that wasn't all that related | 00:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but there's all sorts of ways it can go fubar | 00:11 |
| jabis | if you don't set the environment with suffix - with devel-su your root commands won't actually work on most occasions | 00:12 |
| jabis | like starting / stopping daemons etc | 00:12 |
| kuenx | *should* developer SSH access work out of the box with a fresh PR1.2? | 00:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jabis: well, that just has to do with the path, right | 00:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | kuenx: as long as you flipped the developer mode switch on, yeah | 00:13 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | and use the password from the sdk connectivity tool | 00:13 |
| jabis | env variables and paths yes | 00:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jabis: if you ssh in, /sbin is in the path by default | 00:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and /usr/sbin | 00:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it's not with meego terminal | 00:14 |
| kuenx | itsnotabigtruck: ok, I will try to re-flash and see if it works. Then maybe try to enable SSH for user after I got it to work | 00:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | kuenx: weird | 00:16 |
| kuenx | Thanks so much for helping everyone. But I think I might have messed up some of the startup scripts when following the numerous 'how to enable ssh' threads without undoing first | 00:17 |
| jabis | I just reflashed one 16gb one with 1.2 and developer mode came working about out of the box | 00:17 |
| kuenx | jabis: good news. I'll do that | 00:17 |
| kuenx | thanks | 00:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, just log in as developer | 00:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no need to set a pass on user | 00:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you can use devel-su to become user if the need be | 00:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | this ought to work: devel-su -c 'devel-su -s /bin/develsh user -' | 00:18 |
| kuenx | devel-su is to become root, isn't it? | 00:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (use root password) | 00:19 |
| kuenx | ok | 00:19 |
| kuenx | I got to go | 00:19 |
| kuenx | sorry | 00:19 |
| kuenx | Thanks so much | 00:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | later | 00:19 |
| kuenx | I'll be hanging in here once I got my dev setup working | 00:20 |
| kuenx | later | 00:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://i.imgur.com/u7q5d.jpg | 00:26 |
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| mankeli | itsnotabigtruck: yeah, it needs that fuse-utils. but the problem is that harmattan-dev only has fuse-utils 2.8.5maemo5+0m6, but device has libfuse2 2.8.6maemo5+0m7 which is a no-no for that libfuse package | 01:18 |
| mankeli | and of course i have inception :-) | 01:19 |
| mankeli | of course i could try patching the fuse-utils package to install with newer libfuse2 and cross my fingers that the ABI hasn't changed | 01:21 |
| mankeli | but it's little bit too dirty | 01:21 |
| mankeli | it would be a temporary fix | 01:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | mankeli: are you sure they have to match | 01:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, if you have scratchbox, grab the fuse source package from the pr1.2 source iso | 01:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and build that with dpkg-buildpackage | 01:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that'll spit out all the debs for fuse, presumably including fuse-utils then | 01:25 |
| mankeli | haven't set up scratchbox yet | 01:28 |
| mankeli | altho i should. that madde stuff is kinda awful | 01:28 |
| mankeli | what is pr1.2 source iso? | 01:28 |
| mankeli | and that fuse-utils package has libfuse (= 2.8.5maemo5+0m6) in dependencies | 01:34 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | mankeli: nokia refuses to distribute the gpl-mandated source code through a convenient method, so they send it out on DVDs via snail mail | 01:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which then get requested by people, imaged, and uploaded | 01:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's often the only way to get updated packages that are in sync with anything newer than pr1.0 | 01:40 |
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| mankeli | oh nice! | 01:42 |
| mankeli | i found some big pr1.2 source archive from piratebay, but this is much nicer | 01:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah... | 01:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | once you download it, if you could make a torrent out of it that would be awesome | 01:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i can't seed because i'm behind a nat i don't control | 01:43 |
| mankeli | why nokia doesn't distribute that themselves? | 01:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i tried to promote making a torrent before but no one can be arsed with such a thing :( | 01:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | mostly because it seems for a lot of people here torrents = piracy and piracy = evil | 01:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and as for distributing themselves, who knows why | 01:47 |
| mankeli | yeah, torrents have gained such a reputation | 01:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | everything about the SDK side of things with harmattan is ass backwards | 01:48 |
| mankeli | which is annoying | 01:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a number of people inside and outside of nokia are pissed off with them | 01:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | apparently they had staff cuts early on but that doesn't excuse how backwards the whole arrangement is | 01:48 |
| mankeli | what | 01:48 |
| mankeli | ..so what's going on in there? | 01:49 |
| mankeli | that fuse package in pr1.2 dvd seems to contain also fuse-utils. weird that they don't have it in their own repo | 01:50 |
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| mankeli | since they have libfuse2 which is built from that same source package | 01:51 |
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| wook | hey folks, what's last kernel for n950? | 01:51 |
| wook | m6 or m7? | 01:51 |
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| javispedro | mankeli: http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/n9sources_repo/ | 01:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | wook: m7 | 01:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | specifically, 2.6.32.48-dfl61-20115101 | 01:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | N9 and N950 use the same kernel | 01:55 |
| wook | where to get m7? :| all i could find was m6 (OneClickFlasher) | 01:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | wook: what are you trying to do | 01:56 |
| wook | mess around :D | 01:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but (if it's not classified) what are you trying to get at doing | 01:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | first, the +0m7 suffix is just something nokia's build system does | 01:56 |
| mankeli | javispedro: thanks, i'm browsing that but also downloading the .iso | 01:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but the kernel that ends with +0m7 belongs to PR1.2 | 01:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so if you just want to get that kernel, you should upgrade your entire N950 to PR1.2beta | 01:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is the latest released for N950 | 01:57 |
| wook | yes, i know that | 01:57 |
| wook | but where to get beta pr? | 01:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's on the website | 01:57 |
| javispedro | mankeli: but you can put that into your sources.list and then use apt-get source to download | 01:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | just google it, you'll have no trouble finding it | 01:58 |
| Tronic | itsnotabigtruck: I can create a torrent, seed and post to TPB. | 01:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Tronic: that would be awesome | 01:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | probably best off doing the N9 one which is slightly newer | 01:58 |
| wook | aaargh :D | 01:58 |
| Tronic | itsnotabigtruck: Need to have the files + description because I have no clue and no time/interest to figure it out myself. | 01:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i.e. this one http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/1.2-2/SDK_Sources_PR1.2.ISO | 01:58 |
| Tronic | Should I package the .ISO or the contents of it? | 01:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | good question, i'd say do the iso | 01:59 |
| wook | itsnotabigtruck, mind if i msg? | 01:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | definitely don't do it like the old torrent, which had all the filenames mangled into 8.3 frormat | 01:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | wook: yeah, don't ask, just do it | 01:59 |
| Tronic | Is it a bootable image or something? If plain files, I suppose the files themselves would be preferred. | 01:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Tronic: it's a whole bunch of DSC and TAR.GZ files, not bootable | 01:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | publishing the whole thing forces people to download the whole thing en bloc and therefore be able to seed properly | 02:00 |
| Tronic | That's not really an issue. | 02:00 |
| Tronic | People generally download entire torrents, especially if they are going to stay around seeding it, anyway. | 02:01 |
| Tronic | ... but it sucks having to unpack stuff after downloading. | 02:01 |
| Tronic | Some (scene) idiots even post rars or zipped rars within torrents instead of the extracted contents. | 02:01 |
| Tronic | So, what should I write in torrent description? | 02:02 |
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| Tronic | 3 minutes to finish download. | 02:03 |
| mankeli | javispedro: i don't have scratchbox installed | 02:06 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Tronic: /me shrugs | 02:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Nokia N9 Public Source Code - PR1.2 (30.blahblah) | 02:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | + a blurb about it being useful for developers | 02:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Use Harmattan Platform SDK <http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/platform-sdk/> to build packages. | 02:11 |
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| villager | hmm, I just booted up my n950 after something like half a year (been too busy), but it doesn't seem to be any obvious way to upgrade it to pr1.2 | 02:20 |
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| villager | grbl, took a lot of googling to find anything newer than pr1.1 | 02:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | villager: it's not that hard to find :p | 02:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but yeah, you want the PR1.2 beta | 02:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's the latest public n950 firmware | 02:36 |
| * javispedro feels the need to enter the arcane world of Xlib again | 02:40 | |
| Tronic | TPB is being a little slow today (nothing new). | 02:41 |
| Tronic | Perhaps it also dislikes adding the full file list to torrent description. | 02:42 |
| villager | itsnotabigtruck: seems to be for me... the harmattan-dev.nokia.com front page only links to pr1.1, and very few google results point to anything other than "it's here!" articles or the pr1.1 page | 02:57 |
| villager | but I found it at last I guess | 02:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Tronic: putting the full file list in the description? | 02:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's hundreds of files :O | 02:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if the user wants to find the file list they can grab the torrent and view it | 02:58 |
| villager | itsnotabigtruck: but I didn't see any pr1.2 beta, I'm flashing the regular pr1.2 image for n950 | 03:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | villager: the only one that's available is the beta...but it's almost identical to the final 1.2 | 03:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the beta is 2012-W02-6 | 03:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | final is 2012-W07-1 | 03:02 |
| Tronic | itsnotabigtruck: People may google for individual packages and so they could find TPB. But torrent search engines will display those lists anyway... | 03:05 |
| villager | the page says nothing about beta, just Harmattan 1.2 (3.2012.02-6, released 2012-01-25)... file name seems to be Linux_OCF_02-6_RM680-RM680-OEM1.bin | 03:06 |
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| Tronic | http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7162952 | 03:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | nice | 03:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | @everyone if you can, seed it! | 03:08 |
| villager | I'm not sure how to do that... would I download the file from that url first? | 03:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Doenload the few tens of K torrent file. | 03:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Then point your favourite torrent client at it | 03:14 |
| villager | (otherwise my computer has 24/7 connectivity with high-speed cable connection so seeding is no problem) | 03:14 |
| merlin1991 | itsnotabigtruck: eh why do you need seeds for that | 03:15 |
| merlin1991 | it's on docs server, here aswell: http://merlin1991.at/harmattan/PR1.2/30.2012.03-5_sources.iso | 03:15 |
| villager | SpeedEvil: yeah but when I looked at that page, nobody else had that file, so I thought the torrent client wouldn't be able to get it | 03:16 |
| villager | looks like now someone else is seeding though | 03:16 |
| villager | not downloading, though, so perhaps that url is still a better idea? or? | 03:17 |
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| merlin1991 | hm seems that that file is actually newer | 03:18 |
| villager | oh well, who cares, I'll just leave the torrent client up for fun | 03:18 |
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| Tronic | A lot of peers connecting, no-one is downloading anything. I wonder WTF. | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | You don't have the parts they want. | 03:20 |
| Tronic | Tested myself that downloading to another host works. | 03:20 |
| Tronic | Ummh, I seeding. | 03:21 |
| Tronic | *I am | 03:21 |
| sahib_ | 0 bytes so far, download doesn't seem to take off for some reason... | 03:21 |
| Tronic | 4.0 MB uploaded (to my other server) | 03:22 |
| xXxdevilxXx | but why are u guys torrenting? | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: thanks for stopping that piratebay madness | 03:23 |
| xXxdevilxXx | better to place it onto some really fast shell or something like that | 03:23 |
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| xXxdevilxXx | slice it into parts.... | 03:23 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: when did this iso come out? | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | which one? | 03:24 |
| merlin1991 | the pr1.2 | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw "come out" is not the right term here, both ISO are from people who received DVD from Nokia | 03:25 |
| merlin1991 | yea, but you get what I mean :D | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the filename is what I got told was either written on the disk or the actual name of the disk or files on it | 03:26 |
| Tronic | Switched qBittorrent to Transmission, now seeding is actually working. | 03:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | merlin1991: well, the idea is to have something more redundant | 03:28 |
| Tronic | Albeit, only 40 kB/s upload rate at the moment. You guys must have super slow Internet connections or there is some problem... | 03:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and torrents are great for any sort of large file | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 03:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's good to counteract the perception that they're only for large pirate files | 03:29 |
| Tronic | Also great for transferring directory trees. | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | but WTF do you need to refer to a piratebay URL to point others to a particular file? | 03:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: well, one could copy-paste the magnet uri | 03:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | besides, what's so bad about the pirate bay | 03:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a site, it is what you use it for | 03:30 |
| Tronic | DocScrutinizer: What's wrong with using a TPB URL? | 03:30 |
| merlin1991 | itsnotabigtruck: because there are http hosts for this | 03:30 |
| merlin1991 | no need for torrents | 03:30 |
| merlin1991 | it's on docs host, mine, and possibly others aswell | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | TPB comsidered highly illegal | 03:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | merlin1991: but torrents can be faster and don't have a single point of failure | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I prefer it's not mentioned in this chan | 03:30 |
| merlin1991 | well beat my or docs upload and also 2 points isn't single point ;) | 03:31 |
| Tronic | Besides, you could always use https://www.google.com/search?q=filetype:torrent+metallica | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, if you get any less than full speed of what *your* downstream allows when DL the file from my server, PRETTY PLEASE let me know! | 03:32 |
| Tronic | So, unless you want also Google not being mentioned on this channel, I don't really get the point. | 03:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's not considered highly legal whereever it's being hosted now :p | 03:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | er, highly illegal | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Tronic: you already got the point | 03:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | like i said before, it is what you do with it | 03:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in this case what you do with it is redistribute a legit iso | 03:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so yeah | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't want to understand that TPB is not the right URL to refer to legal torrents? OK, I define TPB URLs a ban'able word in this chan | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | find a better way! Tronic already used one, even to point to an "illegal" torrent | 03:35 |
| xXxdevilxXx | guys, what's the problem? | 03:36 |
| xXxdevilxXx | isn't it better to slice iso into .zips and upload it like that? | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm all for torrents (though not really needed here) - I don't like that particular site/URL used in any context here | 03:36 |
| xXxdevilxXx | the pirate bay is not illegal thing, and don't have anything to do with illegal things... | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe in your book | 03:38 |
| * virtuald gets the popcorn | 03:38 | |
| xXxdevilxXx | sue them for illegality... | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, I rather kick you. Way simpler and more direct action. I don't mind what they do, I mind what is done in this channel. If you don't get that, you're a basket | 03:40 |
| xXxdevilxXx | owh, i will be soooooooo, soooo hurt if you kick me out | 03:40 |
| xXxdevilxXx | lol | 03:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and i'd rather you not get so worked up all the time | 03:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (and everyone else too, sheesh) | 03:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm completely relaxed | 03:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's quite apparent >_> | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | just a bit astonished about some people's lack of understanding simple contexts | 03:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | chanop says: torrent OK, particular URL not OK. period. | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | no further discussion needed | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | just to remind you: there are IRC policies that forbid posting ANY URL. Not that I'd even consider to apply such policy here | 03:44 |
| wook | omG, lol, dude, where's your power off button? :D | 03:46 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: didn't see that one | 03:48 |
| virtuald | http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/007/445/pancake_bunny.jpg?1249339142 | 03:48 |
| merlin1991 | is it a freenode policy? | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | one a number of chan, yes | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | virtuald: is this any related? | 03:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if yes, then please give some context explaining what we will see when we bother to look at that URL. If not then please explain why you're going OT | 03:49 |
| virtuald | yes. this is oolong. he balances stuff on his head. | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, thanks. So I don't have to visit that page, just to learn I'm not interested in it | 03:50 |
| virtuald | lighten up, everyone loves cut animals. | 03:51 |
| virtuald | oh | 03:52 |
| virtuald | cute animals. :D | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | i love cut animal and to cut animals ;-) | 03:53 |
| virtuald | some may prefer them cut but that's just nasty | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least when it's some 250g from Argentina, medium | 03:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mmmm | 03:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I haven't had a good steak in a while. | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | though my friend Werner Almesberger thinks I'm a sissy, real men don't do it under 500g. He should know, he lives in Argentina ;-D | 03:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh | 03:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eat until you're comfortably full. | 03:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eat too much and you're just ruining the experience. | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D indeed | 03:58 |
| virtuald | i used to be the one saying stuff like that. it's not an argument. | 03:58 |
| virtuald | so lets all grep hands around the campfibre and sing we shall overcome | 04:00 |
| Tronic | DocScrutinizer: I just cooked beef fillet pepper steaks with friends a few hours ago. I think I ate almost half a kilo, all medium minus :) | 04:01 |
| Tronic | Finnish, though, not Argentinan. | 04:01 |
| Tronic | So good :) | 04:02 |
| virtuald | beef is like 98% human | 04:08 |
| virtuald | eat me | 04:09 |
| virtuald | 8-) | 04:10 |
| javispedro | man, I want to visit Finland some day | 04:11 |
| javispedro | (totally unrelated comment of the day ;) ) | 04:11 |
| merlin1991 | yep finland is on my to visit list aswell :) | 04:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/us/police-tracking-of-cellphones-raises-privacy-fears.html?_r=1 :/ | 04:14 |
| javispedro | so please shutdown your personal tracking devices | 04:14 |
| javispedro | you know, before the N900, I was pretty much a cell phone free person :( | 04:15 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | javispedro: in this case the revelation is that the cell phone companies supply the info warrant or not, for a fee | 04:17 |
| javispedro | even worse =( | 04:17 |
| javispedro | in any case, it's starting to become somewhat of an habit that every move towards privacy produces an equal opposite reaction | 04:19 |
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| javispedro | itsnotabigtruck: you were complaining about glue? :) I had to add 11k lines of code for some kind of weird Xlib glue I still don't fully understand | 04:41 |
| javispedro | s/glue/boilerplate | 04:41 |
| javispedro | THAT is arcane =) | 04:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | javispedro: hah | 04:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, i don't think i've heard anything good about xlib at all | 04:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | isn't there a more modern wrapper api for it though | 04:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | can't you use that? | 04:46 |
| javispedro | sadly not :( | 04:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | xcb | 04:46 |
| javispedro | they have not yet rewritten "this" part on top of xcb | 04:47 |
| javispedro | yeah | 04:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ah :( | 04:47 |
| javispedro | XIM | 04:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | javispedro: hmmm...looking that up, might you be able to ditch XIM and go with SCIM or one of the other new shiny replacements for it | 04:53 |
| javispedro | SCIM is on top of XIM | 04:53 |
| javispedro | (the 11k lines of glue come from them =) ) | 04:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | javispedro: but isn't that in the library? so that doesn't count as your glue code | 04:54 |
| javispedro | Good question, but I just looked and they do not export those symbols seemingly | 04:56 |
| javispedro | in any case the glue was in .a very nicely apart (Ximdkit), so not complaining | 04:56 |
| javispedro | oh ( http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/unsupported/lib/IMdkit/ ) =) | 04:57 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | sigmaorion: did flashing your phone go OK? | 05:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and did you get inception? | 05:26 |
| sigmaorion | itsnotabigtruck, thank you for asking | 05:26 |
| sigmaorion | I had no time at all and now I'm just about to flash it! | 05:26 |
| sigmaorion | just waiting for the battery level to raise over about 50% | 05:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh lol :p | 05:27 |
| sigmaorion | after flashing it I will try to incept it | 05:27 |
| sigmaorion | so, now that we are talking about it... any advice before flashing? lol! | 05:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, just make sure you back up all your stuff :p | 05:28 |
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| sigmaorion | yeap, done! | 05:29 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | apparently the built in backup doesn't back up sms and a bunch of people have been bit by that | 05:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh, and remember to flash with 001 so you get pr1.3 right off the bat | 05:30 |
| sigmaorion | why would the backup app backup sms? I wouldnt expect it to do it... | 05:30 |
| sigmaorion | PR1.3??? | 05:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | why wouldn't it, it's user data | 05:31 |
| sigmaorion | is there a 1.3 release?? | 05:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, the one that comes after pr1.2 :p | 05:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it isn't out yet | 05:31 |
| sigmaorion | oooh, I thought it was already out! lol! | 05:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's being worked on, no idea when it's actually coming out but the word on the street is that it's close | 05:31 |
| sigmaorion | and what new stuff will it bring? | 05:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not much, fix bugs mostly | 05:32 |
| sigmaorion | oh, ok... is PR1.2 too buggy? | 05:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and you'll want to wait for my inception patch | 05:32 |
| sigmaorion | sure I will! | 05:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's no buggier than pr1.1, generally | 05:32 |
| sigmaorion | it's good, then | 05:33 |
| sigmaorion | I didn't find many bugs in pr1.1 | 05:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's quite a few...but not everyone runs into them | 05:33 |
| sigmaorion | not that I've been looking for them anyway | 05:33 |
| sigmaorion | yeah, I didn't, lol! | 05:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | one thing to be advised of, don't put harmattan-dev.nokia.com in your apt repositories | 05:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | or any other unsigned apt repos | 05:34 |
| sigmaorion | I know that I've found a couple, but they were not important at all and didn't bother me too much, so I can't remember them | 05:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pr1.2 broke those | 05:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, don't try booting the 'rescue kernel' on pr1.2 unless you're using open mode to begin with | 05:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you boot into open mode once you do so every time until a reflash, starting with pr1.2 | 05:34 |
| sigmaorion | rescue kernel? I dont even know what it is, lol! | 05:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then you shouldn't need to worry | 05:35 |
| sigmaorion | but just curious... | 05:35 |
| sigmaorion | what is that thing? | 05:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a kernel that makes your rootfs a mass storage device | 05:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so you can unscrew your N9 without reflashing | 05:35 |
| sigmaorion | interesting! | 05:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but booting it puts you into open mode, and that means you need to reflash anyway much of the time | 05:36 |
| sigmaorion | if I had enough time I could have serious fun! | 05:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | before pr1.2 you could boot back out of open mode and all was well | 05:36 |
| sigmaorion | what is to put you into open mode? | 05:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also it doesn't seem to work consistently so that's a problem too | 05:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | open mode = what you go into when you boot something untrusted | 05:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it displays a rather scary warning and locks out some aegis-related stuff | 05:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | however it also lets you get around aegis without inception | 05:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but inception is a lot more convenient than open mode | 05:37 |
| sigmaorion | I see... | 05:37 |
| sigmaorion | thanks for your advices!! | 05:38 |
| sigmaorion | where can I read about all that stuff? | 05:38 |
| sigmaorion | I have time to read when I'm in my travel to work and back (1 hour travel by bus in each direction) | 05:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | most of it's scattered around in various places on tmo | 05:38 |
| sigmaorion | I'd like to do some reading about low level details | 05:39 |
| sigmaorion | I mean, starting from N9s' hardware to its OS details | 05:39 |
| sigmaorion | so that I can really understand | 05:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, there's no one place to find that info | 05:40 |
| sigmaorion | but it's all there scattered... | 05:41 |
| sigmaorion | itsnotabigtruck, write a book!!! lol! | 05:41 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | o.O | 05:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i mean, what actual sort of info are you looking for | 05:41 |
| sigmaorion | not really sure, actually | 05:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | like if you're writing an app and need some help in a particular area i could point you in the right direction (maybe) | 05:42 |
| sigmaorion | let me try to explain... | 05:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | otherwise it's kinda hard to help | 05:42 |
| sigmaorion | I have used Linux for years in PCs and I have a good idea of PCs hardware, so I have read about Linux kernel, and so on... | 05:43 |
| sigmaorion | so, I can have a big picture about how a Linux runs on a PC | 05:43 |
| sigmaorion | when I come to the N9, there are a lot of differences | 05:43 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | not as many as one might think, besides the usual embedded stuff | 05:44 |
| sigmaorion | start with the bootloader, for example | 05:44 |
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| sigmaorion | I have no idea on how it works, and which one is it... is it closed, open source? | 05:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what about it? it's closed | 05:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it does the usual bootloader stuff and loads the kernel | 05:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is stored on its own NAND partition, not in /boot | 05:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's some nokia proprietary thing called nolo | 05:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not like uboot or redboot or whatever | 05:45 |
| sigmaorion | nolo? | 05:45 |
| sigmaorion | have never heard about it | 05:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, Nokia Omap LOader | 05:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | or maybe NOkia LOader | 05:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's because only maemo devices use it | 05:46 |
| sigmaorion | and then, the aegis stuff... | 05:46 |
| sigmaorion | I have no idea of how that works, lol! | 05:46 |
| sigmaorion | anyway, Nokia gives out a lot of information about it | 05:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | how it works, or how to use it | 05:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's some decent info on the nokia site, though it's very opaque if you don't already know about it | 05:47 |
| sigmaorion | yeap, exactly! | 05:47 |
| sigmaorion | if you don't already know about it, it's hard to start... | 05:47 |
| sigmaorion | that is what exactly happened to me | 05:47 |
| sigmaorion | I read a little bit and stoped | 05:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_Security_guide.html | 05:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | this one is OK | 05:48 |
| sigmaorion | but I was asking beacuse, maybe, there was one place to read about everything | 05:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i've had it in the back of my head to try writing a wiki page or something but that sort of thing takes a long time | 05:49 |
| sigmaorion | yeap, I guess there was where I started reading | 05:49 |
| sigmaorion | that's a lot of work!!! | 05:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the basic concept is fairly simple, really | 05:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | on linux, most people think in terms of root or not root, but there's actually a lot of gradations in between | 05:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | because of linux capabilities | 05:50 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | each capability represents a power of the root user | 05:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the idea is that it's possible to give an app only a subset of root powers to keep things secure | 05:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | however on normal linux it isn't used much | 05:50 |
| sigmaorion | yeap, I never used it in my PC | 05:51 |
| sigmaorion | not seen it much around | 05:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the major part of aegis is a scheme for assigning those capabilities | 05:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and deciding which capabilities should be assigned based on the "manifest" in the .deb | 05:51 |
| sigmaorion | but how would you assign those "privileges" to your app? | 05:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it can assign some other stuff besides capabilities, too | 05:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you write an xml file and put it at debian/packagename.aegis before you build your package | 05:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, that's how you do it if you build the debian package the traditional way, it's different if you use qt creator or other things | 05:52 |
| sigmaorion | and what is you cross-compile an app and just want to copy the exacutable to /bin, for example | 05:53 |
| sigmaorion | ? | 05:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | however, the major problem with aegis is that instead of giving the power to the people, it mostly exists to protect the user from the phone | 05:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | er, whoops | 05:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | protect the phone from the user | 05:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rather than protect the user from badguys | 05:53 |
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| sigmaorion | lol!!! everybody would be afraid of their own phone! | 05:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | haha | 05:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, as a consequence of that it doesn't let you just request any privilege you want | 05:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what inception does is give you a way to install an app that does let it just request any privilege it wants | 05:54 |
| sigmaorion | of course you must know exactly what you are installing | 05:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | right, which is why you shouldn't incept indiscriminately | 05:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it's not that much of a risk | 05:55 |
| sigmaorion | anyway, are there really dangerous apps around for harmattan? | 05:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no, not really | 05:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a few store apps have ads in them, that's about the upper bound of questionable apps | 05:55 |
| sigmaorion | besides, I don't have any secret information in my phone, hehe | 05:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and those aren't the sort of thing that needs inception | 05:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a much greater risk that somebody might put together a poorly made package that screws up your phone | 05:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that was not that uncommon with N900 | 05:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lots of amateurs who didn't know that much about debian packaging | 05:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but that hasn't really happened that often | 05:56 |
| sigmaorion | yeap... but, if I'm installing non official stuff in my phone, I'm ready to flash, just in case! | 05:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yep. so anyway, that's pretty much what aegis is all about | 05:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | - determine whether a package is allowed to ask for the privilege | 05:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | - store the privileges that were asked for | 05:58 |
| sigmaorion | and talking about being ready to flash, my phone is pretty close to 100% | 05:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | - when the app is run, activate those privileges | 05:58 |
| sigmaorion | (my wife's calling for diner!! I'll be back in half an hour!) | 05:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | later | 05:58 |
| sigmaorion | cya later! | 05:59 |
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| * sigmaorion is flashing pr1.2 at this very moment | 07:56 | |
| sigmaorion | SUCCESS!!! | 08:00 |
| * sigmaorion is already enjoying! | 08:00 | |
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| itsnotabigtruck | sigmaorion: cool | 08:02 |
| sigmaorion | yeap!! changing to english... I hate translations! | 08:04 |
| sigmaorion | it was pretty fast to flah a 1GB image!!! | 08:04 |
| sigmaorion | and it kept my emails accounts and inboxes!!!! | 08:08 |
| sigmaorion | it rocks!! | 08:08 |
| sigmaorion | well, gotta go to bed... | 08:23 |
| sigmaorion | see you, itsnotabigtrack | 08:24 |
| sigmaorion | many thanks for your advices and your flashing guide! | 08:24 |
| sigmaorion | ;) | 08:24 |
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| auenf | awesome, mail doesnt open since updating to PR1.2 | 08:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | auenf: congratulations, you just ran into one of the many problems with doing the SSU instead of flashing | 08:34 |
| auenf | OTA | 08:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the "ota upgrade" is called an ssu | 08:34 |
| auenf | ok, i cant access the settings of some accounts | 08:35 |
| auenf | so that seems to be the issue | 08:35 |
| auenf | hmm, how can i remove accounts :/ | 08:36 |
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| mankeli | itsnotabigtruck: oh right! i installed scratchbox, compiled fuse with it. then I noticed that my opensh wasn't incepted properly. but after re-installing few pkgs, sshfs is now working! thank you very much for help | 09:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | mankeli: yay | 09:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | we desperately need a solution for distributing those sorts of packages | 09:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i was going to write an autobuilder script for mohammadag but never ended up doing so | 09:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that would build all the source packages | 09:56 |
| mankeli | it would be quite great | 09:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a slightly complex problem because of the need to ensure that the packages don't come out with weird tainted dependencies | 09:57 |
| mankeli | especially if mohammadag is willing to donate his storage and bandwidth for such a cause | 09:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the idea was to write a script that would process the source package info, build a graph, toposort it, then execute a build on each one then install it | 09:58 |
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| mankeli | shouldn't the dependencies be more-or-less right already in those source tarballs? | 09:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so, not that bad in python but rather tricky | 09:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, first, you want everything to be built with up to date headers | 09:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and second, debian tries to auto-detect binary dependency version numbers | 09:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in theory the binary dependency versions should end up the same | 09:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | often using older dependencies in the build = different dependency versions | 10:00 |
| mankeli | so...because harmattan sdk sb has older versions of some packages dpkg-buildpackage would create packages with wrong dependencies? | 10:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah | 10:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | at least wrong if whatever is shipped originally is right | 10:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | needing to do this whole exercise is ridiculous | 10:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | nokia already has repos with the proper sdk packages, they just refuse to release them | 10:02 |
| mankeli | wtf | 10:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they've just completely neglected the public sdk repo | 10:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | part of the idea is to force people to write backwards compatible apps for ovi store | 10:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and to be fair, due to that auto version detection thing i mentioned above, building against some packages in an up to date sdk will prevent installing in an os version older than the sdk | 10:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | for example, some of the nokia people were compiling their apps with the pr1.3 sdk which broke installing on pr1.2 | 10:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | simply because of the dependency versions that the debian tools put in | 10:04 |
| mankeli | i guess it's kinda ok that debian autodetects the versions, since if eg. library api is different in older version of some dependency, it wouldn't work anyway | 10:05 |
| mankeli | or am I misunderstanding completely | 10:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, yeah, it's a good thing, in theory | 10:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it's fussy and a lot of packages seem to ship with incorrect version detection info | 10:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so you end up with noise | 10:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | like the qt packages just end up making a dependency on whatever you built with or newer | 10:06 |
| mankeli | I see | 10:07 |
| mankeli | i wonder if they are going to update the public sdk repos when 1.3 arrives if that's the "final version" | 10:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i hope, but i'm not counting on it | 10:08 |
| jonni | update is quite likely, but nobody has even yet confirmed that there will be even pr1.3 coming :) | 10:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jonni: but a proper update, or what they did with pr1.2 | 10:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | with pr1.2 they added something like 5 packages | 10:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and only ones they backported to pr1.0 | 10:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so far they've been committed to this no-sdk-updates thing | 10:14 |
| jonni | itsnotabigtruck: atleast they have patched 3 holes that inception was using (if there is pr update ever coming) :) | 10:14 |
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| mankeli | nice priorities. fix inception holes, but leave the sdk outdated | 10:16 |
| divan0 | Hi all. So, is there any chance to install Harmattan or Meego/Mer/Tizen on Lumia? Or any chances to do it in the future? | 10:17 |
| dm8tbr | divan0: no | 10:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | meh | 10:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's like trying to seal the holes in a piece of swiss cheese | 10:17 |
| mankeli | i guess meego kernel isn't going to work on qualcomm chipset anytime soon | 10:18 |
| divan0 | that's bad | 10:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | divan0 mankeli: well, fortunately the kernel is open source so i doubt that's the largest stumbling block | 10:18 |
| dm8tbr | mankeli: secure boot loader, how would you load an own kernel? at least that's the rumor | 10:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | finding drivers for the lumia's hardware might be troublesome | 10:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, that's a greater issue | 10:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also in the case of harmattan the res is probably a problem | 10:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, no idea if the lumia's radio speaks the same interface as the N9's | 10:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but likely not | 10:19 |
| mankeli | yeah, i have also heard that wp7 is pretty closed up | 10:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it is | 10:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's by no means a hacker platform | 10:20 |
| divan0 | wp7 is closed of course | 10:20 |
| jonni | well lumia's are booted to linux kernel before windows is flashed on the factory, but no you cannot as end user flash meego on lumia, bootloader is locked before it leaves the factory. | 10:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | even if you root it, you're still highly limited | 10:20 |
| divan0 | I've got Lumia and don't know what to do with it, if it's not possible to install meego... | 10:20 |
| dm8tbr | divan0: sell it | 10:21 |
| jonni | you can always give Lumia to your gf or parents :) | 10:21 |
| mankeli | only the exterior of lumia is similar to n9 | 10:21 |
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| divan0 | jonni: I will break with gf if she'll use wp7 ))) | 10:22 |
| divan0 | s/she'll/she/ | 10:22 |
| mankeli | it WAS going to be a meego phone for chinese market, but when et wp7 thing came they quickly replaced the omap with qualcomm stuff and pushed it to the market | 10:22 |
| jonni | I have lumia800 on my table, have to admit that on some things it is faster than N9 | 10:23 |
| divan0 | It would be pretty awesome push for Nokia if Harmattan could be installed on the next models of Nokia phones (hopefully with qwerty). | 10:23 |
| jonni | but on other things its lacking, so I am still using N9 as my primary phone. | 10:23 |
| Arie | jonni i agree, but the lumia is extremely boring | 10:23 |
| jonni | think that I love in N9 is that if something irritates me I can just recode it to my liking | 10:24 |
| Arie | i also have one right here in front of me, i don't have any interest to use it | 10:24 |
| divan0 | jonni: even if it's 10x faster, it's closed platform anyway, so it's useless. | 10:24 |
| mankeli | divan0: not going to happen :( | 10:24 |
| jonni | (ofcourse it helps that I have full access to sources and to fully signed repositories). | 10:25 |
| mankeli | but i guess they are progressing with meltem | 10:25 |
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| divan0 | jonni: full access to sources of WP7? | 10:25 |
| jonni | android and ios ;-) | 10:34 |
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| djszapi | Hey! Does anybody know here how to set up badges on the Qt Developer Network page ? It shows me a blank page, if I click on the "Badge settings" on the left side of the "Edit profile" menu. | 11:26 |
| tomma | maybe you haven't earned any badges? | 11:29 |
| djszapi | well, I should have a few in fact :-) | 11:32 |
| djszapi | pretty much almost everything I saw out there so far. | 11:33 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | i should now be eligible for delicious delicious karma transfer | 11:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | from tmo to midgard | 11:35 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | can someone help me with a command? | 13:54 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Trying to get a desktop file to execute a shell script | 13:55 |
| MFaro-Tusino | I have Exec=/usr/bin/aegis-exec -s -u user -l '/usr/bin/meego-terminal -n -e sh /home/user/.BatteryWidget/percent.sh' but thanks to aegis, the files are given root permissions | 13:55 |
| MFaro-Tusino | is there a way to run this as root without needing to input pass each time | 13:55 |
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| mankeli | MFaro-Tusino: you could try setuid | 14:07 |
| MFaro-Tusino | in the manifest? | 14:08 |
| mankeli | no, set the flag to percent.sh | 14:09 |
| Anssi138 | what about ssh'ing root@localhost 'stuff' | 14:09 |
| MFaro-Tusino | but i will still need to input the password no? | 14:09 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Mankeli : How would I set the flag? sorry, still new at this tuff | 14:10 |
| Anssi138 | well if you set ssh keys you should be able to to just login i think | 14:10 |
| MFaro-Tusino | *stuff | 14:10 |
| mankeli | hopefully the root ssh access disabled, especially if there's no password set :) | 14:10 |
| Anssi138 | at least with std passwd :) | 14:11 |
| mankeli | MFaro-Tusino: try chmod 4555 percent.sh | 14:11 |
| mankeli | and then chown file to root:root | 14:12 |
| mankeli | at least that's what works on normal linux | 14:12 |
| MFaro-Tusino | But i will need to do it manually each time the app is installed | 14:12 |
| Anssi138 | that's quite nasty anyway. | 14:14 |
| MFaro-Tusino | can I change the exec option of the desktop file to run in through aegis-exec without parsing through the user component? | 14:15 |
| MFaro-Tusino | eg Exec=/usr/bin/aegis-exec -l '/usr/bin/meego-terminal -n -e sh /home/user/.BatteryWidget/percent.sh' | 14:16 |
| mankeli | why do you need aegis-exec anyway | 14:16 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Not sure, just saw it on some development forum | 14:17 |
| MFaro-Tusino | it has worked for me | 14:17 |
| MFaro-Tusino | it is just now that i have packaged it, i am getting this permission issue | 14:17 |
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| mankeli | well you should be able to install root uid files with packages | 14:18 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | Thats the thing, it does install with root uid | 14:18 |
| djszapi|windows | so any python gurus here ? :) | 14:19 |
| djszapi|windows | thp: ? :p | 14:19 |
| MFaro-Tusino | but when i did my app initially, i just cp'd all the files into place | 14:19 |
| djszapi|windows | merlin1991: ? :) | 14:19 |
| MFaro-Tusino | so it is done assuming user permission | 14:19 |
| mankeli | ah | 14:19 |
| diorahman | anyone know how to call Accounts-UI interface? | 14:19 |
| mankeli | i misunderstood | 14:19 |
| diorahman | is there a convenience class just like ShareUiInterface? | 14:20 |
| diorahman | maybe this one? ./usr/share/dbus-1/services/com.nokia.AccountsUI.service | 14:21 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Mankeli: Any idea how i can do it? | 14:25 |
| merlin1991 | djszapi|windows: here now | 14:26 |
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| djszapi|windows | merlin1991: http://paste.kde.org/452756/ | 14:30 |
| djszapi|windows | http://paste.kde.org/452762/ | 14:30 |
| djszapi|windows | merlin1991: long story short, we switched to python 3.2 from 2.7 recently for the KDE Windows project. | 14:30 |
| djszapi|windows | so it is probably due to that | 14:30 |
| djszapi|windows | (worked before) | 14:30 |
| merlin1991 | hehe 2.7 -> 3.2 is an evil switch :) | 14:30 |
| merlin1991 | anything 2.x -> 3.x is evil :D | 14:31 |
| djszapi|windows | I know | 14:31 |
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| djszapi|windows | I removed python from my arch machine | 14:31 |
| djszapi|windows | since they have been shipping python3 since the day first | 14:31 |
| djszapi|windows | at any rate...do you see the issue ? | 14:31 |
| djszapi|windows | merlin1991: just out of the curiosity, is it a more painful change than qt3 -> qt4 ? | 14:32 |
| merlin1991 | I never experienced that change | 14:32 |
| djszapi|windows | right there are still softwares not recovered from that qt major change. | 14:32 |
| djszapi|windows | merlin1991: anyway...ideas ? :-) | 14:32 |
| merlin1991 | you need to encode the string as bytes | 14:33 |
| * djszapi|windows has zero clue about python (TM) | 14:33 | |
| merlin1991 | fp.write(('#define CHECKSUM "%s"\n' % sm).encode('utf-8')) | 14:34 |
| djszapi|windows | merlin1991: just in case python3 ? | 14:34 |
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| merlin1991 | djszapi|windows: alternatively you can give it a default encoding when opening the file pointer --> fp = open(sys.argv[3], "wb", encoding='utf-8') | 14:37 |
| djszapi|windows | merlin1991: just in case python3 ? | 14:38 |
| merlin1991 | yep | 14:38 |
| djszapi|windows | or will that work for both ? | 14:38 |
| merlin1991 | uh dunno if it works for both | 14:38 |
| merlin1991 | and I just realized I told you foobar | 14:39 |
| djszapi|windows | it would be nice if I do not need to do things conditionally. | 14:39 |
| djszapi|windows | some solution which works for both... | 14:39 |
| merlin1991 | because if you have a 'b' in the filemode it does not do encodings at all for you | 14:39 |
| merlin1991 | the problem is that strings in pyhton3 are not strings in python2 | 14:39 |
| merlin1991 | and pyhton3 has the idea of "binary strings" | 14:39 |
| djszapi|windows | so only "ifdef" like solution ? Is there such a thing in python codes btw ? | 14:40 |
| djszapi|windows | not preprocessor obviously, but some runtime stuff | 14:40 |
| diorahman | hum | 14:40 |
| djszapi|windows | merlin1991: most of the linux users use python2, and some of them plus kde-windows use python3. | 14:41 |
| djszapi|windows | so it /has/ to work with both. | 14:41 |
| merlin1991 | well you can check for the python version on runtime | 14:41 |
| djszapi|windows | inside the python file ? | 14:41 |
| merlin1991 | yes | 14:41 |
| djszapi|windows | how ? | 14:41 |
| merlin1991 | if sys.hexversion > 0x03000000 | 14:41 |
| merlin1991 | but let me test first if it works on both | 14:42 |
| merlin1991 | (got python2 and 3 installed here) | 14:42 |
| djszapi|windows | right | 14:42 |
| merlin1991 | using .encode works on both | 14:45 |
| merlin1991 | but why do you need binary write mode on the file in the first place? | 14:46 |
| djszapi|windows | merlin1991: no clue, not my project | 14:47 |
| djszapi|windows | if they need, I accept it, and adopt the feature to python3. | 14:47 |
| djszapi|windows | that is all. | 14:47 |
| merlin1991 | I don't see a point why they would need it :D | 14:47 |
| merlin1991 | becuase without binary mode it would work on pyhton3 without changes :D | 14:48 |
| djszapi|windows | yes | 14:48 |
| djszapi|windows | if it was text thingie | 14:48 |
| djszapi|windows | let me do a git blame | 14:48 |
| djszapi|windows | more than years ago :-) | 14:49 |
| merlin1991 | you can either add an explicit encode line to each write or just change the file mode form wb to w | 14:50 |
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| merlin1991 | both solutions work on 2.x and 3.x | 14:50 |
| djszapi|windows | well, encoding seems to be a workaround | 14:50 |
| djszapi|windows | and I can CC the original author | 14:50 |
| djszapi|windows | I would not like to change this "feature" even if it is a bug | 14:51 |
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| djszapi|windows | merlin1991: to me it seems it should be text | 14:53 |
| djszapi|windows | since it generates C++ style thingie | 14:53 |
| merlin1991 | to me aswell | 14:53 |
| djszapi|windows | C/C++ | 14:54 |
| djszapi|windows | well, let me try to build it | 14:54 |
| djszapi|windows | it seems an abandoned stuff anyway | 14:54 |
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| djszapi|windows | last commit 3 years ago | 14:54 |
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| djszapi|windows | merlin1991: ok, I pushed, thanks | 14:59 |
| merlin1991 | yw | 14:59 |
| djszapi|windows | if it is not okay, someone is gonna shot me | 14:59 |
| merlin1991 | better lrn2doge bullets ;) | 15:01 |
| djszapi|windows | fair enough :) | 15:01 |
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| diorahman | anyone could help on this: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?234626-How-to-Launch-Accounts-UI-(just-like-MeeIn) | 15:20 |
| MohammadAG | mankeli: I am | 15:22 |
| MohammadAG | I have an idling i5 | 15:22 |
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| khertan | Hi all ! | 15:25 |
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| xmlich02 | ja budu pracovat, ju? | 15:31 |
| xmlich02 | sry | 15:31 |
| xmlich02 | bad window | 15:31 |
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| wook | sorry for bit stupid question, but, how to get keycodes of device? (vol up and vol down keys) | 16:07 |
| auenf | ok, so moving .qmf dir made email work again | 16:10 |
| auenf | so i didnt need to flash :P | 16:10 |
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| merlin1991 | hey khertan ;) | 16:44 |
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| diorahman | any ideas on this: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?226609-How-to-integrate-with-the-N9-Accounts-FW ?? | 17:37 |
| diorahman | thanks | 17:37 |
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| pa | any alternative to nokia MD50? | 17:43 |
| pa | i dont want to pay 100 bucks for a bluetooth speaker | 17:43 |
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| dm8tbr | diorahman: there is at least Aard's XMPP plugin that uses the settings and accounts structure | 18:08 |
| khertan | merlin1991: hey | 18:12 |
| diorahman | dm8tbr: owh, do yo have access to it's source? | 18:29 |
| diorahman | *its | 18:29 |
| dm8tbr | diorahman: IIRC there's a git repo somewhere™ | 18:31 |
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| dm8tbr | diorahman: https://gitorious.org/xmpp-accounts looks like it | 18:32 |
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| diorahman_ | dm8tbr: thanks | 18:35 |
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| diorahman_ | dm8tbr: but, how to dbus-send (sending message) to the account-ui ? :-) | 18:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | dm8tbr: what's missing from that? | 18:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | any reason why it was never distributed? | 18:36 |
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| diorahman | hum | 18:38 |
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| ZogG_laptop | tedtalks is nice app | 18:47 |
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| diorahman | ZogG_laptop: thanks! :_) | 18:52 |
| diorahman | dm8tbr: hum, I could call the invoker then | 18:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | diorahman: your work? | 18:53 |
| diorahman | ZogG_laptop: yes, it is , please support me :-) http://aegis.no.de/ted/donate | 18:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | diorahman: i would, after i'll re-connect new card to paypal again | 18:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | diorahman: btw you should change name | 18:55 |
| diorahman | ZogG_laptop: Awesome :-) Haha, yeah? | 18:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | as it's names talks | 18:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | name | 18:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | like TED on icon and talks in the label | 18:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | but despite icon label should include TED or at least not to be talks as it's too general word to use | 18:56 |
| diorahman | ZogG_laptop: I'm sorry, I couldn't follow you. I decided to put just Talks, since the TED is already in the icon | 18:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | it is logical but i wouldn't connect both | 18:57 |
| diorahman | ZogG_laptop: will do some experiment with that with next release :-) | 18:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | thanx | 18:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | diorahman: did you announced it on TMO? | 18:59 |
| diorahman | not yet, I'm just a beginner, will do that after smoothing some rough edges | 19:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | man, it's much more stable and usefull than my app, so do it | 19:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | anyway yo uannounced on n9-apps =) | 19:02 |
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| diorahman | ZogG_laptop: yes I did :-) | 19:05 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | itsnotabigtruck | dm8tbr: what's missing from that? | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | itsnotabigtruck | any reason why it was never distributed? | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | diorahman ^ might you know? | 19:15 |
| diorahman | itsnotabigtruck: about what? the plugin? | 19:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, the xmpp accounts plugin | 19:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i saw that before and i'm wondering what the catch is | 19:16 |
| diorahman | well, I don't know, I'm asking the question because I wanna use account-ui just like meein does | 19:17 |
| diorahman | and maybe somehow, could reuse the credentials from e.g. connected facebook and twitter user information | 19:17 |
| diorahman | about that xmpp I don't really know | 19:18 |
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| diorahman | since the accounts-ui plugin only have provider and service, there is no "interface"-file for dbus, what is the choices to call it? | 19:24 |
| diorahman | If it has invoker, then can we just call it? | 19:24 |
| amppa | any idea how the store works -- if a free application changes to a paid one, will all existing installations still receive updates as before? | 19:24 |
| diorahman | the thing is, how can we get the "signal" when it's done? | 19:24 |
| dm8tbr | itsnotabigtruck: Aard is here, you can ask him. IIRC he wanted to put it into ovi store | 19:26 |
| diorahman | dm8tbr: cool! | 19:26 |
| dm8tbr | itsnotabigtruck: I have it on my N950, it works like a charm | 19:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm | 19:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | aard: ping | 19:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | don't think i've ever seen him around here | 19:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | 176 people and so many never say a word :/ | 19:28 |
| diorahman | itsnotabigtruck: haha | 19:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | dm8tbr: i know there was a previous xmpp plugin hosted on github i think? | 19:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that i don't think was finished | 19:30 |
| diorahman | BTW, itsnotabigtruck do you know how to call the accounts-ui (and the specific plugin) via dbus or anything else? | 19:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the gitorious has one commit, in january | 19:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so if the plan was to actually release it i don't see the logic behind waiting 3 months | 19:31 |
| Aard | itsnotabigtruck: yes? | 19:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aard: oh hey, as you can see i was wondering about the status of your xmpp account plugin project | 19:32 |
| Aard | it's working, I just never got around to make the qml look nice | 19:33 |
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| diorahman | Aard itsnotabigtruck yeah I tried it just now :-) | 19:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aard: planning on finishing that up and releasing soon? | 19:35 |
| diorahman | Aard: do you know how to "launch" the UI (of your plugin) via dbus? :-) | 19:36 |
| diorahman | Aard: or is there another way so the caller could track down what;s happening with the callee? | 19:37 |
| Aard | itsnotabigtruck: depends on time and how annoying qml is to me | 19:37 |
| Aard | diorahman: you can just directly call it with the right parameters (start it from accounts-ui, note the parameters, and invoke it manually) | 19:38 |
| diorahman | Aard: example please :-) I don't know the params for the accounts-ui | 19:39 |
| Aard | diorahman: accounts-ui = the graphical thingy. you tap on it, and then from ps output you take the parameters | 19:39 |
| Aard | itsnotabigtruck: there's currently about 200 lines of uncomitted local changes I need to get around to clean up, and some fixing with the qml | 19:40 |
| Aard | itsnotabigtruck: on an unrelated note, do you want to have a graphical installer for inception? I did something which includes installing inception from ui, and at least that part could probably be released, after some cleaning | 19:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | aard: ooh | 19:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i thought about implementing one but held off on it because there'd still be no gui way to actually incept anything with it | 19:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | to get any benefit from installing inception you need to know the terminal | 19:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's why i was thinking about building an app repository with a fancy installer, but that's a lot of work | 19:46 |
| Aard | well, it's just a simple ui, and a small non-ui program which runs with root-permission and get's called doing the dirty stuff. you can just throw it somewhere, and install it through the web browser | 19:46 |
| Aard | extending it to support package installs shouldn't be too much work | 19:47 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | aard: main screen looks OK, except for the background color | 19:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also needs to be XMPP (Jabber) [with a space] | 19:55 |
| Aard | itsnotabigtruck: $ git diff src/resources/qml/xmpp-settings.qml | wc -l | 19:55 |
| Aard | 98 | 19:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also maybe change Username to Address or Jabber ID | 19:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 19:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you're going to commit that soon maybe i should just rebuild and test that then | 19:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i assume this is going to end up in AFM? seeing that you have all the debian packaging stuff set up | 19:56 |
| Aard | I planned to throw it into the store | 19:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | upload it to afm too | 19:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it needs more stuff desperately | 19:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you put the DSC and TAR.GZ into c-obs and do some stuff to submit it into apps for meego | 19:58 |
| Aard | we'll see. I'm still unsure if I want to start messing with debian packages on obs ;) | 19:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | aard: well, aren't you already messing with debian packages :p | 19:59 |
| Aard | it's different to just build it in scratchbox and mess around with a system mainly designed for building rpms | 20:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | whoa | 20:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, the settings screen needs a little bit of styling :p | 20:01 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | also btw the XMPP icon needs to be put in a squircle | 20:02 |
| Aard | in a what? | 20:02 |
| bindi | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squircle | 20:04 |
| Aard | well, I had no intention to mess with the icon ;) | 20:04 |
| bindi | so, does google talk work with n9? | 20:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aard: well, it needs to be messed with :p in order to comply with harmattan design guidelines | 20:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | bindi: of course, that's out of the box | 20:05 |
| Aard | i.e. they won't accept it in store without? | 20:05 |
| bindi | okay | 20:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | nokia put in all the infrastructure for xmpp accounts, but then locked it down to google only :/ | 20:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | aard: they'll accept all sorts of stuff | 20:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but if you want your app to look *good* it needs to blend in | 20:05 |
| Aard | well, then I don't care ;) | 20:05 |
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| diorahman_ | Aard: do you mean, after launching the account-ui, then I have to launch the plugin manually? (by calling the invoker?) and then listen the signal from accounts-ui? | 20:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | forget the store requirements, that's irrelevant | 20:06 |
| Aard | I did this last year because I wanted to use jabber without mc-tool, nothing else ;) | 20:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm a bit irritated with people using nokia's lax store requirements to justify inferior quality | 20:06 |
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| Aard | well, I don't care much about the ui side | 20:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, the xmpp logo just needs to be dropped on top of the squircle background like this: http://i.imgur.com/GOkUD.png | 20:07 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | also, there's a telepathy option that controls whether someone who's not a contact can call you, maybe add another option for that | 20:08 |
| Aard | on my phone the current version does not render (i.e., syntax error in qml), so I'll have to look at that first before I can push it. if you're lucky early next week | 20:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ignore certificate and require ssl could perhaps be combined into one option | 20:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. insecure mode = ignore on, require off | 20:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | secure mode = ignore off, require on | 20:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | because with require off, a mitm can just make it seem like the server doesn't support ssl | 20:10 |
| Aard | it's just 'prefer ssl' in that case, which does make sense | 20:11 |
| Aard | treating ssl on jabber as anything but 'nice to have, but not important' is nonsense | 20:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | aard: it's the only security you have on N9 IM so it's pretty damn important | 20:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and secure mode should definitely be the default | 20:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that is, require on, ignore off | 20:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you trust the server, and you're communicating with someone on the same server, jabber ssl is ok security | 20:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | for interdomain connections, with today's jabber server implementations you can't trust it | 20:13 |
| Aard | the point of jabber is that you have lot's of distributed jabber servers, so having it is mostly nonsense | 20:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aard: in any case, if you could make the settings secure-by-default that would be great | 20:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw what license is this under? the gitorious says GPL2 but i didn't see any license banners in the code | 20:16 |
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| Aard | it's gplv2 | 20:20 |
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| diorahman | Aard: from qdbus, I could get method void com.nokia.AccountsUI.Launch(QString ServiceType) | 20:30 |
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| diorahman | the service type should be: social, IM etc? but it doesnt change anything | 20:30 |
| diorahman | :| | 20:30 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, Aard: are you going to implement the strict ssl by default | 20:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | realistically most people use the default settings and i'm worried people are going to get roped into insecure defaults | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | (<itsnotabigtruck> also btw the XMPP icon needs to be put in a squircle) IIRC there's a infra to do that on device, for bookmarks | 20:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: hm, interesting | 20:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | though in this case it needs to be prepped in advance | 20:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | like the ones supplied by nokia for various services | 20:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (pretty much everything but xmpp, in fact :p) | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | prepare in advance using on-device infra | 20:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ...or on a host pc and shipped in the package | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, no | 20:46 |
| bindi | how significantly will being available on google talk 24/7 drain the battery? | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean: use your device to prepare the icon, then copy to your PC | 20:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | bindi: somewhere between not at all and a lot | 20:47 |
| bindi | lol, okay | 20:47 |
| bindi | will just have to see then :) | 20:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you probably won't get 3 to 4 day battery life | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | more like: substantially | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | or like: 3..4h standby | 20:47 |
| bindi | wut | 20:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: errr, no | 20:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | unless something is severely wrong, not even close | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends on amount and esp frequency of traffic, and media channel aka 3G / WLAN / USB? | 20:49 |
| bindi | 3G | 20:49 |
| bindi | will just have to see tbh | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 20:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i had my xmpp configured with mc-tool for a while | 20:49 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | it still lasted at least 2 days | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3G is probably more like 4h than 4d | 20:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | 3 to 4 hours is fud | 20:49 |
| bindi | doubt it will affect at all, since Android has google talk 24/7 available too :> | 20:50 |
| Arie | and what about on 2g? | 20:50 |
| bindi | er, by at all i mean a little | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arie: 2G is waaay better | 20:50 |
| bindi | argh. by at all i mean that much | 20:50 |
| Arie | that's what I assumed as well | 20:50 |
| Arie | it should last at least a day on 2G | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what I get with IRC on N900 | 20:51 |
| bindi | atleast a day on 2G? | 20:51 |
| bindi | lol | 20:51 |
| Arie | i keep fmobi/aim running at all times on 2G and it lasts me all day without a hiccup | 20:51 |
| bindi | yeah i'll just stop listening to you guys and do my own testing :D | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | with 3G more like 6h | 20:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the irc clients are probably less efficient | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.e. a quarter | 20:51 |
| Aard | itsnotabigtruck: the defaults will probably change, though it'll stay as separate settings | 20:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you're probably comparing apples to oranges | 20:51 |
| Arie | DocScrutinizer: that's about right | 20:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | aard: the separate settings doesn't matter that much, the defaults are important | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | itsnotabigtruck: that's no question of client, but a qustion of protocol | 20:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: well, it could be a bit of both | 20:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | esp if the telepathy stuff puts things into powersave modes | 20:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and the 3rd party irc client doesn't | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEH | 20:52 |
| Aard | right now it's settings how I need them, once it's ready for publishing I might change some of them | 20:52 |
| Arie | powersave mode activity is a must, if you expect to get at least a days use out of it | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | if your protocol causes inbound ping every 30s, your 3G eats battery in 3h | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | no matter what client does | 20:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no way to force any PS on it | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it way more depends on the *server* you connect to, rather than your client | 20:54 |
| Arie | well that nulls the idea of PS | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah well, that special HARM PS mode, NFC | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | you might have a point there | 20:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but AIUI this PS mode just does a hidden offline mode, so you're also not 24/7 'online' | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | even if you might think so | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | also nfc what's google talk. Maybe it's a weird VoIP-over-XMPP implementation, then the server might avoid to send frequent pings, and you get same standby like with usual VoIP | 20:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the max period between any keep-alive pkgs for servers (your VoIP UA actually is a server when you look at it from internet, it has open port and accepts inbound traffic) is determined by the session-timeout in any NAT your 3G provider is using | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | as soon as the NAT terminates the session (the port assignment for inbound), you're no more available from the internets | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you need keep-alive pks sent every other minute or sth | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | to stop NAT session timeout | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | some nifty carriers might offer uPnP for their NAT. Some may not have a NAT at all (saunalati comes to mind) | 21:05 |
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| dm8tbr | saunalahti does default nat, but you can turn it off nowadays | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah, I see | 21:09 |
| dm8tbr | also: I just disabled sip register on my N950 | 21:09 |
| dm8tbr | it sucked and never worked anyway for me | 21:09 |
| dm8tbr | I now have working inbound over XMPP | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | with keep-alive? or NAT free? | 21:10 |
| dm8tbr | and as I use XMPP for messaging anyway, there is no overhead, actually it reduces overhead as I don't need active SIP register | 21:10 |
| dm8tbr | XMPP is TCP based for the control channel | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 21:10 |
| dm8tbr | voice goes through RTP | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | RTP voice needs no keep alive - *usually* | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 21:10 |
| dm8tbr | ;) | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I say *usually* as you might have situations where you listen for minutes, and your codec does silence pause | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | or raher, you speak for minutes, while far end doesn't send data due to silence pause | 21:12 |
| dm8tbr | in addition only aplicable if silence detection kicks in | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what I meant, yep | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, standby for server services like any flavour of VoIP is highly determined by network (when it comes to 3G) and almost unrelated to the UA you use | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's kinda like asking "how much will it reduce my standby when I run an apache server on my device?" | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | answer: depends on what "the internet" does | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | unrelated to your apache config | 21:17 |
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| knee | I noticed today that push notifications stop working when switching between networks.. (noticed this with ebuddy xms). If I start the app when connected it works perfectly, if I than switch networks / get disconnected it stops working until I start the app again.. Is this a 'problem' in harmattan itself or in ebuddy (and is there a way to fix it?) | 21:47 |
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| ZogG_laptop | frals: saw your tweet about headphones, ddi they work good with n9? | 22:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | i mean all controls and stuff | 22:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | 905i or what was the model | 22:00 |
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