| pa | kozzi, can i ask you a question? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kozzi | yes | 00:00 |
| pa | i want to start creating some app, in poarticular i wanted to start with a toggle for flight mode. i was planning to have a look at the source of toggle psm | 00:00 |
| pa | but it+s not available, but i read you made the icon for it | 00:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: but the flight mode setting is on the main settings screen... | 00:01 |
| pa | do you know iwheter it's available somewhere? | 00:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's literally two taps to turn it on or off | 00:01 |
| pa | well.. still. | 00:01 |
| pa | also wifi on off | 00:01 |
| pa | to be honest i really miss a panel like in android to switch the various stuff | 00:01 |
| kozzi | lol, yeah I pm the maker that icon | 00:01 |
| pa | but i know widgets are not possible on meego | 00:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | promise you won't try and charge for a toggle button app :p | 00:02 |
| pa | of course | 00:02 |
| pa | i mean | 00:02 |
| kozzi | I had nothing else to do with the app though | 00:02 |
| pa | maybe i wont even put it on the store | 00:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw idea: have two icons and interchange the icon based on the current flight mode state | 00:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it could be tricky however making sure it updates even if the user manipulates it from settings | 00:03 |
| pa | is it possible? | 00:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's definitely possible to change the icon, all you have to do is edit the .desktop file from your app | 00:03 |
| pa | ah i see | 00:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | meegotouchhome automatically updates with no additional intervention | 00:03 |
| pa | do you know whether the source code of some toggle is somewhere? | 00:03 |
| pa | and is gps toggable on meego? | 00:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, if you're toggling something different, i don't know how that would help | 00:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | since the meat of the program is adjusting the relevant setting | 00:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | for the icon changing stuff check out the source code for talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1167127 | 00:04 |
| pa | well, i never did anythng for meego, i was just looking for something simple to start off | 00:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | most settings are controlled from gconf | 00:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so you probably adjust flight mode by manipulating gconf | 00:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think there's a way to hook gconf to notify you if the setting changes | 00:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you can use that to auto-update the icon | 00:06 |
| pa | ah ok | 00:06 |
| kozzi | 2g3g toggler is quite nicely made | 00:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://developer.gnome.org/gconf/2.16/ | 00:07 |
| kozzi | unlike psm toggle, the screen wont turn black while displaying notification about changing mode | 00:07 |
| pa | found the source | 00:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | looks like you want a gconf "listener" | 00:07 |
| pa | ah that+s something i need! | 00:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but i wonder if there's a way to set up a gconf listener without running a background process | 00:07 |
| pa | btw is it my impression or opera keyboard is better than the stock meego keyboard? | 00:08 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | hmm, would changing flight mode state run a dbus notification? | 00:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you *might* be able to get timed to listen for a dbus signal on flight mode state change | 00:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and invoke the icon swap process | 00:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (yes, i just realized that my icon swap idea probably involves waaaay more code than the actual toggling part :p) | 00:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | try using dbus-monitor and playing with the flight mode toggle in settings | 00:11 |
| pa | ah | 00:11 |
| pa | actually flight mode is already there | 00:11 |
| pa | same guy as 2g3g | 00:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: hmm...do it betetr! | 00:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://projects.developer.nokia.com/flightmode/browser | 00:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | fork it and add the icon swapper | 00:13 |
| pa | first i have to find the souce | 00:14 |
| pa | source | 00:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i just linked it | 00:14 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | so there needs to be 4 scenarios: install, update_icon, toggle, uninstall | 00:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | where toggle happens if the user invokes it from the homescreen, update_icon happens if the user toggles from settings instead, install/uninstall manage the hooks for the update_icon | 00:15 |
| kozzi | toggle for flash light would be nice | 00:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | kozzi: just download 'the flashlight' | 00:16 |
| kozzi | one which doesnt open any app screen | 00:16 |
| pa | ah, by the way, question | 00:16 |
| pa | is there any way to prevent the camera app to go in sleep mode when it+s not in focus? | 00:16 |
| kozzi | just tap the icon and the light goes on, another to disable | 00:16 |
| pa | like if it+s filming | 00:17 |
| pa | so that the flashlight could be turn on | 00:17 |
| kozzi | itsnotabigtruck: yeah I have it, it takes some time to run though | 00:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm, there's a theme applet in meegotouch-controlpanelapplets | 00:21 |
| pa | interesting that for 2g3g there are no source | 00:21 |
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| kozzi | good night | 00:31 |
| pa | night | 00:31 |
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| Aranel | djszapi: I'm looking into that add-to-boot feature I asked about you lately, but I'm kind of confused, where should I look at exactly, to grant root IO access to an .sh script? | 00:44 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Aranel: put <request><credential name="UID::root" /><for path="/path/to/foo.sh" /></request> in debian\packagename.aegis | 01:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in a folder for a debian package | 01:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Thanked: 42 times < woot | 01:11 |
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| merlin1991 | woot? | 01:22 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | merlin1991: woot. | 01:29 |
| merlin1991 | I see | 01:29 |
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| djszapi | gabriel9: pong | 01:54 |
| djszapi | pa: there is the torch app | 01:56 |
| djszapi | it opens a screen up, but really just toggle. | 01:56 |
| djszapi | I do not think there is any closer to your wish. | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | There re two torch apps. | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | One sucks. | 02:02 |
| djszapi | the one is which won 50k | 02:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | ... The one with the lightbulb that breaks dimming? | 02:04 |
| djszapi | not sure what you mean. | 02:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | won 50k? hm? | 02:04 |
| djszapi | you apparently never heard of the app comptetion last year... | 02:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011 oh, this | 02:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and no, i didn't | 02:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i didn't hear about any of this stuff until it was way too late :| | 02:07 |
| djszapi | nah, not that one. | 02:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then which one, because i'm not finding much of anything else besides an 'icon competition' | 02:09 |
| djszapi | check the channel log. | 02:09 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | ...or you could skip this back and forth since you obviously know which one it is | 02:11 |
| djszapi | nah, I will not do the job for you. | 02:12 |
| djszapi | I should do exactly the same search | 02:12 |
| djszapi | but I did the job for you ... meh lazy people ... http://qtinnovationchallenge.nokia.com/login.aspx | 02:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | "This Qt Innovation Challenge is a private, invitation-only opportunity" | 02:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | an opportunity that has close to zero visibility on google | 02:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and...that's what they awarded the prize to? | 02:14 |
| djszapi | man you were lazy to look for this in the channel log :) | 02:14 |
| djszapi | please do not blame google... | 02:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | why should someone who specializes in generating shovelware with a price tag for as many platforms as possible get a free payout :/ | 02:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://www.phonetorch.com/wb/pages/downloadpurchase.php | 02:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | two euros for a program that, in most cases, displays a blank screen | 02:18 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | reminds me of that guy who wrote 100 apps for winphone as quickly as possible | 02:35 |
| djszapi | my friend has 11 harmattan apps in ovi | 02:37 |
| djszapi | and he earned like 500-1000 EUR with those. | 02:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's the thing, people wouldn't do it if it didn't make money | 02:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in my overly idealistic idea of what an app is supposed to be, it shouldn't even be possible to do 11 proper apps since when the n9 was launched | 02:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | *to have done 11 | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I debate that. | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Proper apps can be very, very minimal from a technical POV | 02:41 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: not just money, that is just a side effect | 02:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and those apps should be $0 - anything else is a basically a cash grab | 02:41 |
| djszapi | also, getting money does not work with pushing paid apps | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Stuff like nice data traffic counters. | 02:41 |
| djszapi | this is the receipt: | 02:41 |
| djszapi | pushing for free | 02:42 |
| djszapi | get 15k download | 02:42 |
| djszapi | and when they are used to it, make it paid | 02:42 |
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| arekinath | djszapi: the drug dealer model, eh? :P | 02:55 |
| arekinath | first one is always free | 02:55 |
| djszapi | exactly. | 02:55 |
| djszapi | and see how dependent they get. | 02:55 |
| arekinath | I really want a wifi stumbler app, just haven't had the time to hack on it | 02:56 |
| djszapi | really, if you start a paid app (even one eur), you hardly have downloads | 02:56 |
| djszapi | in comparison with free apps where even me having 100 downloads a day with a useless app | 02:57 |
| djszapi | that nobody looks for just, maximum while browsing all the apps | 02:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | part of what really gets me is that i'd expect that the price at least purchases finesse | 02:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but there seems to be pretty much no correlation between price and elegance or whatnot | 03:00 |
| djszapi | just like in the world everywhere without regarding the software industry... | 03:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i can't find anything /philisophically/ wrong with the whole thing but it isn't a situation that leads to top notch anything | 03:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also outside of software, often "finesse" is exactly what a higher price tag buys you | 03:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. cars would be a good example | 03:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw is the ovi store featured list set algorithmically, or manually? | 03:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i noticed your game is featured | 03:04 |
| djszapi | not really no | 03:04 |
| djszapi | I bought many creep stuff almost in every bit | 03:04 |
| djszapi | even cars can be very creepy for higher costs | 03:05 |
| djszapi | my friend could explain it better.... | 03:05 |
| djszapi | so not sure how it is relevant to Ovi. That is how the world has always worked. | 03:05 |
| djszapi | no idea about featured list | 03:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | fire up the ovi client | 03:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you're #7 | 03:06 |
| djszapi | not here, at least. | 03:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | after MusiKloud, GT Racing Motor Academy HD, fMobi, Gravity Guy, Pocket RPG, and Unit Converter (all free) | 03:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm, maybe it's user or locale dependent? | 03:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | are you looking at your phone? because it doesn't look like the featured list is on the website | 03:08 |
| djszapi | I do not see any featured list with kanagram, sorry. | 03:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: hmm, what's the #1 featured app on your end | 03:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | must be segmented by country or something | 03:15 |
| djszapi | Britney naked :) | 03:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 03:16 |
| djszapi | "Balloon Popper". | 03:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | w00t just ported iperf, time for an actually working speed test | 03:18 |
| djszapi | heh there is a big bikeshed discussion on kde-coredevel | 03:23 |
| djszapi | about user rights on bugzilla ;-) | 03:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | [ 4] 0.0-22.8 sec 3.00 MBytes 1.11 Mbits/sec | 03:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | [ 3] 0.0-18.4 sec 2.13 MBytes 969 Kbits/sec 47.502 ms 42/ 1561 (2.7%) | 03:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (tcp / udp 10mbit transmit) this is supposed to be 3(.5)g... :/ | 03:24 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | [ 4] 0.0-22.8 sec 3.75 MBytes 1.38 Mbits/sec < over wifi...something must be wrong | 03:26 |
| * djszapi is implementing a custom VKB | 03:34 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | i just realized it was so slow because i was uploading from the phone to my server, heh | 03:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so that's actually good news, it means the HSUPA is kicking in | 03:38 |
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| ieatlint | wait, you got 3+ mbytes/s over HSUPA? | 03:46 |
| ieatlint | the phone has a max HSUPA rate of 5.7mbit | 03:47 |
| ieatlint | oh, nm, i'm misreading the fields :) | 03:47 |
| * ieatlint is smart | 03:47 | |
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| itsnotabigtruck | ieatlint: after testing with nuttcp, it looks like i'm getting 1 Mb up, 2 Mb down | 04:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not exactly blinding speed, but i don't think i'm in an HSPA+ area | 04:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | though 2 Mb isn't anything amazing even for old-school "7 Mb" hspa | 04:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | "Since the phone is not tied with any carriers in the U.S., you will be limited to just 3G connectivity as the carriers restrict access to their locked HSPA+ and 4G LTE networks" is this true? (from some blog site) | 04:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | while i wouldn't put it above the carriers to do that, that sounds fishy | 04:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_Lumia_800#Issues | 04:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what on earth is this (see "ACTA-SMS bug") | 04:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | while the ACTA connection seems to be made up by somebody with an overactive imagination, that's a rather peculiar issue | 04:38 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | hrm, so unity ported their engine to N9 - but unlike the iphone and android versions they don't allow anyone to have it unless they publish their game through unity | 06:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that is, unity prices and sells the game | 06:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | while it sounds like an interesting program, wtf kind of arrangement is that | 06:50 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | i have a capacitive stylus *somewhere* but i can't find it :( | 07:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it never worked very well on my zune though | 07:44 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | itsnotabigtruck, so I may do what I really didnt ever want to do with this steam thing | 08:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | remove the libpurple plugin and just do it all in qt | 08:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | because I installed the android version in an emulator, and it does a lot more than just chat | 08:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | its almost the entire client, with the community, store, etc | 08:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Sazpaimon_: lol | 08:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | isn't that entirely distinct from what you were going to do | 08:10 |
| Sazpaimon_ | well, not entirely | 08:10 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the chat/contacts bit would be integrated as usual | 08:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | integrated messaging through telepathy != app | 08:10 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but I was going to have a seperate app as well, for the community and store | 08:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and don't do messaging through a custom app, that sucks 100% of the time | 08:10 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i know | 08:10 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it defeats the purpose | 08:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm trying to port milkytracker to the N9, though i'm realizing that tiny capacitive touchscreen + tiny buttons = bad idea | 08:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/paolobes/vmwaros10/milkytracker2.png | 08:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :p | 08:12 |
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| befr0d | dafuq | 08:12 |
| befr0d | xD | 08:12 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i figure once a user creates their account in the manager, the .desktop icon will be created | 08:12 |
| Sazpaimon_ | which will have all the community/store stuff | 08:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm | 08:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | just do it the way the twitter client does | 08:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | have the icon always, and prompt the user to invoke accounts-ui and make an account | 08:15 |
| Sazpaimon_ | that works too | 08:16 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i guess i'll spend this weekend reading up more on telepathy-qt docs | 08:23 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | it may be easier to use that than telepathy-glib | 08:23 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | since iirc Qt has the ability to parse json without any additional libs | 08:24 |
| djszapi | X-Fade, lbt: search is broken for me on the c-obs | 08:24 |
| djszapi | X-Fade, lbt: http://paste.kde.org/428186/ | 08:24 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | so the problem with milkytracker is that it gets letterboxed | 08:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but the touch coordinates don't get adjusted | 08:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so in order to tap load, you have to tap 1cm to the left x_x | 08:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also concerning icons being too small, djszapi is going to *love* this app :p | 08:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | hm | 08:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | would it be easier to parse xml or json in qt | 08:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | im thinking xml | 08:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | because the steam api can return both xml and json | 08:38 |
| djszapi | err ? | 08:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i wasn't aware qt even had a json api | 08:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it definitely has an xml api | 08:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | iirc QScriptEngine can be used for json | 08:39 |
| djszapi | you mean /parser/ api | 08:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: the meaning is obvious... | 08:40 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but yeah, i think you're right, Qt does have some nice code to parse xml | 08:40 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: not at all | 08:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also processing json using a javascript engine is probably a bad idea | 08:40 |
| djszapi | json api means: it provides a json output | 08:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not only is it totally overkill, it could allow all sorts of stuff that contains js code and isn't proper json | 08:40 |
| djszapi | like the standard in question... | 08:40 |
| djszapi | which is obviously not the case | 08:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: "would it be easier to parse xml or json in qt" | 08:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | context is everything | 08:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | now i need to put some module files on my n9 | 08:41 |
| djszapi | not obvious | 08:41 |
| djszapi | who do not catch every sentence, no. | 08:41 |
| djszapi | json API is not a parser API. | 08:41 |
| djszapi | it is quite the opposite | 08:41 |
| djszapi | and I would really suggest json anyway | 08:42 |
| djszapi | and yes, many people parse json from js for good | 08:43 |
| franz` | json would be easy to regex what you want out of it probably | 08:43 |
| franz` | *easier | 08:43 |
| Sazpaimon_ | shut up franz go back to #! | 08:43 |
| franz` | :( | 08:43 |
| dm8tbr | o.O | 08:44 |
| Sazpaimon_ | franz do i gotta put up with you here now too? :( | 08:44 |
| franz` | I just attached to freenode to check something else, don't worry I'll be gone soon enough | 08:44 |
| djszapi | Lars implemented a super nice parser for json recently. | 08:44 |
| Sazpaimon_ | djszapi, are you referring to qjson? | 08:45 |
| djszapi | nope | 08:45 |
| djszapi | imo that was not too efficient. | 08:46 |
| Sazpaimon_ | either way I wanted to avoid using extra libraries if possible | 08:46 |
| Sazpaimon_ | plus if I wanted json parsing, it's be easier to stick with qjson because iirc, it's already in the official nokia repos | 08:47 |
| djszapi | why would you stick with that ? | 08:47 |
| djszapi | as I said, its performance is not too good;. | 08:47 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but xml parsing would be orders of magnitude easier anyway | 08:47 |
| djszapi | and you even said you do not wanna have external lib.. | 08:47 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so its a moot point | 08:47 |
| djszapi | I disagree | 08:47 |
| djszapi | actually, due to our Standard, I experience the opposite. | 08:48 |
| djszapi | people keep asking for more and more json output support because it is way easier to parse. | 08:48 |
| djszapi | way closer to the programming languages... | 08:48 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but DOM parsing isnt really that difficult | 08:50 |
| djszapi | well, tell it to the standard users | 08:50 |
| djszapi | why they ask json if it is not easier to parse :D :D | 08:50 |
| djszapi | I guess you what json is ? | 08:50 |
| djszapi | and what it represents, right ? | 08:50 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yes I know what json is | 08:51 |
| djszapi | then I do not understand how xml is "easier". | 08:52 |
| djszapi | since json has a format very close in idea to the programming languages. | 08:52 |
| djszapi | xml does not. | 08:52 |
| djszapi | actually, that is the whole idea behind it :) | 08:53 |
| djszapi | "JSON is a text format that is completely language independent but uses conventions that are familiar to programmers of the C-family of languages, including C, C++, C#, Java, JavaScript, Perl, Python, and many others." | 08:53 |
| djszapi | from the first article of the official page. | 08:54 |
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| djszapiN9 | it also depends on the difficulty what the standard ships. For instance an interchangable xml/json jsin format is getting unhandy. | 08:57 |
| djszapiN9 | but that is because it tries then to resemble the more difficult xml format with mapping. | 08:58 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | w00t, figured out how to set the res in milkytracker, no more letterboxing | 09:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and no, the whole idea of json is that it's an artifact of javascript, and everybody hopped on it because they were looking for "anything but xml" | 09:02 |
| djszapiN9 | you missed the first article of the official page. | 09:03 |
| djszapiN9 | since you basically say the opposite what the official page says | 09:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://i.imgur.com/7gnol.png | 09:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what the "official page" says doesn't make anything fact | 09:05 |
| Sazpaimon_ | itsnotabigtruck, w00t isnt here | 09:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | :P | 09:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there can't be an "official page", the authors of that page didn't even invent it, they just put a name on it | 09:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the whole idea of json is a retroactive one | 09:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it seems like i'm getting a lot of audio hiccups | 09:07 |
| *** oberling_ is now known as oberling | 09:12 | |
| djszapiN9 | huh, you even say the json page lies about the json idea ? | 09:18 |
| * djszapiN9 chuckles | 09:19 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapiN9: no, but i am saying that there's nothing original about json | 09:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a part of the javascript syntax cut out of context | 09:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | nothing more, nothing less | 09:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm not saying it's a bad idea to use it, i am saying all the hype is undeserved and reeks of the usual cargo cult nonsense | 09:25 |
| djszapi | sorry, I would not like to argue with you. | 09:27 |
| djszapi | if you say completely the opposite than 1) wiki 2) official site 3) #json 4) Our experience with our customers | 09:28 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | you've been arguing, with me and/or sazpaimon, since liek an hour ago | 09:28 |
| djszapi | because you say really really incorrect things | 09:28 |
| djszapi | but apparently, you cannot be englihted, oh well. | 09:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no, i'm stating the truth, mixed in with my opinion of json being overrated | 09:28 |
| djszapi | enlightened* | 09:28 |
| djszapi | it is not a matter opinion what the json idea is | 09:29 |
| djszapi | of* | 09:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | [02:28] <itsnotabigtruck> you've been arguing, with me and/or sazpaimon, since liek an hour ago | 09:30 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if you include the info icon, its been 24 hours | 09:30 |
| djszapi | so what ? | 09:30 |
| djszapi | please stop saying incorrect things | 09:30 |
| djszapi | and stand being corrected. | 09:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, yay, milkytracker works | 09:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | all i need to do is a) hardwire the res to 480x852, b) give it some nice icons, c) ship it | 09:31 |
| djszapi | I am really not enjoying wasting my time, nor reading incorrect information here.... | 09:31 |
| Sazpaimon_ | there really should be a page that maps telepathy-glib functions to their equivalent classes and functions in qt4 | 09:32 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if one exists | 09:33 |
| djszapi | but I can take them non-seriously since they seem to be just opinions, not facts :) | 09:33 |
| djszapi | Sazpaimon_: there is ? | 09:33 |
| djszapi | blame telepathy devs this time ? | 09:33 |
| djszapi | instead of typing telepathy and qt into google ? | 09:33 |
| Sazpaimon_ | djszapi, I have the telepathy qt4 docs | 09:34 |
| * djszapi does not really understand what the problem is then ... | 09:34 | |
| Sazpaimon_ | djszapi, i was saying because I know more about telepathy-glib than qt4 | 09:34 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so if there was something that gave a telepathy-qt4 function its equivaleent glib function that'd be nice | 09:35 |
| Sazpaimon_ | its not really a big deal, though | 09:35 |
| djszapi | you do not probably even need to use telepathy-qt4 for the account plugin anyway... | 09:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | djszapi, I was looking into porting the protocol itself into a pure telepathy plugin | 09:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | instead of telepathy-haze + libpurple | 09:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it'll allow me to have better control over the API calls | 09:39 |
| djszapi | tp plugin for what ? | 09:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | steam | 09:39 |
| * djszapi not following | 09:39 | |
| djszapi | weren't you about to write an account plugin ? | 09:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I am | 09:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and I did | 09:39 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but it uses telepathy-haze and a libpurple plugin | 09:40 |
| djszapi | so you would like to reinvent those for what ? | 09:40 |
| Sazpaimon_ | better control over the API so I'm not relying on telepathy-haze which maps libpurple functions to telepathy's | 09:41 |
| djszapi | why would you need better control ? | 09:41 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I'm going to need to modify the libpurple plugin anyway since it isn't complete | 09:41 |
| djszapi | what is wrong with tp-haze ? | 09:41 |
| Sazpaimon_ | there isn't anything wrong with it | 09:41 |
| Sazpaimon_ | its the libpurple plugin | 09:41 |
| djszapi | and why not contribute back ? | 09:41 |
| djszapi | instead of reinventing ? | 09:42 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I did | 09:42 |
| Sazpaimon_ | he never replied to my patches | 09:42 |
| djszapi | define "never". | 09:42 |
| djszapi | how long time... | 09:42 |
| Sazpaimon_ | its been about two weeks | 09:42 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i emailed him and sent him a few PMs on IRC | 09:42 |
| djszapi | might be normal | 09:42 |
| Sazpaimon_ | maybe | 09:42 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but I did my part | 09:42 |
| djszapi | one of our qt components maintainers is having 1 month long winter vacation | 09:43 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the thing is, there are a few API calls i want to do that fall outside of the scope of a libpurple plugin | 09:43 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so I would need to write code to do this in Qt anyway | 09:43 |
| djszapi | and why not extend ? | 09:43 |
| djszapi | or fix. | 09:43 |
| djszapi | that would be a community mentality. | 09:43 |
| Sazpaimon_ | because like I just said | 09:43 |
| djszapi | be patient. | 09:43 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it falls out of the scope of a libpurple plugin | 09:43 |
| Sazpaimon_ | ie. it makes no sense to have the API calls I want in it | 09:44 |
| Sazpaimon_ | because the libpurple plugin is chat, nothing more, nothing less | 09:44 |
| djszapi | from what I can say tp-haze works according to what I have been told. | 09:44 |
| djszapi | not sure about your scenario | 09:44 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i.. just... said... that tp-haze isnt the issue | 09:44 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the issue is that the libpurple plugin is good for one thing, and I need more things, and the more things I need fall outisde of the scope of the libpurple plugin | 09:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, it seems that tp-haze 'works', the problem is that you're dealing with an abstraction on an abstraction | 09:45 |
| djszapi | I frankly do not get your use case. | 09:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and that's rarely anything good | 09:45 |
| djszapi | the telepathy-haze part works | 09:45 |
| djszapi | so why would you use telepathy-qt4 ? | 09:45 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: that is what qt is ... | 09:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and haze was built specifically with the typical im services in mind, exclusively | 09:45 |
| djszapi | so you basically say qt is rarely anything good ... | 09:45 |
| djszapi | even further: kde adds a lot of abstractions to qt... | 09:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you're taking my words out of context, and to be frank qt makes the best out of a bad thing | 09:46 |
| Sazpaimon_ | for example, when logging in to steam, there are two completely different errors that come up, but both are mapped to the same lubpurple constant, incorrect credentials | 09:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it has its problems like being ignorant of exceptions | 09:46 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but of these cases need to be handled differently | 09:46 |
| djszapi | oh even qt is bad :D | 09:46 |
| * djszapi giggles | 09:46 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is a good example of the abstraction on an abstraction problem | 09:46 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but because i'm completely reliant on haze, which is completely reliant on lubpurple, I cannot make a special use case for this | 09:47 |
| djszapi | also about 2 weeks contribution: I waited 2 months for a Nokia qt contribution. | 09:47 |
| djszapi | even if they are paid for dealing with that. | 09:47 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if I made the API call directly from my app, and didn't have to rely on haze/libpurple, I would know what to do | 09:47 |
| djszapi | how is it harmattan specific ? | 09:47 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it... isn't | 09:48 |
| djszapi | right... | 09:48 |
| Sazpaimon_ | where did harmattan come into this | 09:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, night! | 09:48 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i never mentioned that | 09:48 |
| djszapi | Sazpaimon_: #harmattan channel we are in. | 09:48 |
| djszapi | as for harmattan, you should not use tp-qt4 | 09:48 |
| djszapi | in an account plugin | 09:48 |
| djszapi | everything should be upstreamed. | 09:48 |
| djszapi | and that is what I exactly said from the beginning. | 09:48 |
| Sazpaimon_ | what are you talking about | 09:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, i can see this going on for a looooooong time | 09:49 |
| jonni | heh, i took 6 years to get one of my bug reports to be fixed, that needed some patience :) | 09:49 |
| djszapi | jonni: what bug ? :) | 09:49 |
| Sazpaimon_ | djszapi, why dont you go tell the people that made telepathy-butterfly that their project is wortless too | 09:49 |
| Sazpaimon_ | because telepathy-haze already implements msn | 09:49 |
| djszapi | huh ? | 09:49 |
| djszapi | okay, put it clear since you do not understand: | 09:50 |
| djszapi | almost no plugins use tp-qt4 for account. | 09:50 |
| djszapi | and you should not deal with that layer normally either | 09:50 |
| djszapi | if you do, you are doing something wrong or very very corner case. | 09:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | whoa, i had 57 tabs | 09:50 |
| djszapi | tp-qt4 should be used in other layers. | 09:50 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the account plugin is a seperate thing from what I want to make | 09:51 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but the account plugin will benefit from when I make it | 09:51 |
| Sazpaimon_ | since it wont use haze anymore | 09:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: so if you're going to write a connection manager then what are you *supposed* to use | 09:51 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it'd use my telepathy connection manager | 09:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | because the whole idea here is to write a connection manager | 09:51 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: how would be a connection manager an account plugin ? | 09:51 |
| djszapi | completely separate things. | 09:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: two parts of one system | 09:52 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I.. never said they were the same project | 09:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the system being steam chat on harmattan | 09:52 |
| djszapi | Sazpaimon_: right. | 09:52 |
| djszapi | Sazpaimon_: for that, you might get more help on #telepathy | 09:52 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if the docs confuse me too much, maybe | 09:52 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but from what I've read, the coding is simmilar to telepathy-glib, just cleaner | 09:53 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but im glad we understand eachother now, at least | 09:53 |
| djszapi | well, I have harmattan specific layer of this project in my mind when I am in a #harmattan channel... | 09:54 |
| Sazpaimon_ | its not like everything discussed here is harmattan related | 09:54 |
| djszapi | but we need to try... | 09:55 |
| Sazpaimon_ | yeah and then this place becomes as dead as #maemo | 09:55 |
| Sazpaimon_ | RIP | 09:55 |
| djszapi | not really, that is a fairly basic principle on #mer | 09:55 |
| djszapi | it was also a bsaic principle for #meego-arm when Stskeeps monitored it. | 09:56 |
| djszapi | he exactly said the opposite, #maemo went off-topic too much | 09:56 |
| djszapi | and I agree with him. | 09:56 |
| djszapi | anyway, what you might need to use tp-qt4, is the client code connected to the account plugin. | 09:56 |
| Sazpaimon_ | regarding the account plugin, there's still a few things that I need to figure out regarding how to handle the need auth code reply | 09:57 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | even if I use a different connection manager, i'd still have to rely on telepathy's connection status messagesw | 09:58 |
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| djszapi | Venemo_N950: have you pinged me last night ? Sorry, was napping. | 09:58 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, no problem :) | 09:58 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and if the user logs in, gets incorrect password, that's fine, I can send the invalid credentials message | 09:58 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, setting my image on MNotification does not work :( | 09:58 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | but if the user logs in, and gets "need auth code," there's no telepathy message that corresponds to that except invalid credentials | 09:59 |
| djszapi | Sazpaimon_: from what I see, you need to learn about this topic yet :P | 09:59 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: oh :/ | 09:59 |
| Sazpaimon_ | djszapi, I have a basic understanding of how telepathy communicated with dbus from telepathy-glib, I assume it isn't different from qt | 09:59 |
| djszapi | it is not about telepathy. | 09:59 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, I gave it the full path of my icon, but it should work according to the docs | 09:59 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: any error/warning on console ? | 10:00 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, nope | 10:00 |
| Sazpaimon_ | let me explain the flow here | 10:00 |
| Sazpaimon_ | user puts in their account details, they press submit | 10:00 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | the account plugin creates the account with the connection manager, enables it, and waits for the connection status to change | 10:01 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if it's changed to connected, all is good, exit | 10:01 |
| Sazpaimon_ | if it's disconnected, and the reason is invalid credentials, it means one of two things: | 10:01 |
| Sazpaimon_ | 1. the user put in the wrong username/password | 10:01 |
| Sazpaimon_ | 2. the user put in the right username/password, but needs to input an auth code sent to their email | 10:01 |
| Sazpaimon_ | now, these are two different things, and should be handled differently | 10:02 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: have you tried it on a work horse, or for irc-chatter/puzzle-master ? | 10:02 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but there's no way for the connection manager to know the difference, since it's divorced from the telepathy CM | 10:02 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, can you ping me in a minute? to test the notifications feature? | 10:02 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, I tried in irc chatter | 10:02 |
| Sazpaimon_ | does that explain it a little better | 10:02 |
| djszapi | sure, try to make a workhorse | 10:03 |
| djszapi | a simple application which does nothing else | 10:03 |
| djszapi | just what is really needed. | 10:03 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: also, if you can verify the SelectionDialog from the PR1.3 branch, that is good | 10:03 |
| djszapi | it seems they finally accepted it :) | 10:03 |
| Sazpaimon_ | djszapi, being able to log in is a pretty important aspect of a chat application, just saying | 10:03 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, awesome!! | 10:04 |
| djszapi | Sazpaimon_: I know these things..you do not need to waste your time with explanation :) | 10:04 |
| djszapi | whereas I do not still see how it is relevant to tp-qt4 plugin + account plugin usage. | 10:04 |
| djszapi | it is a different layer from what I can say. | 10:04 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it is, yes | 10:04 |
| Sazpaimon_ | im not really talking about that right now | 10:05 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, notifications work! :) but they don't yet do anything when you click on them. and the image doesn't work | 10:05 |
| Sazpaimon_ | this is on the topic of the account plugin itself | 10:05 |
| Sazpaimon_ | though, I suppose since I'm adding support for more than just chat in the account plugin, I would have to implement the API | 10:05 |
| djszapi | fail to see why ... | 10:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | djszapi, not the chat API | 10:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the other API for other aspects of the program | 10:06 |
| djszapi | and why not in upstream ? | 10:06 |
| djszapi | I am still not getting it ... | 10:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | because an account plugin can do more than just sit in the accouns menu | 10:06 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the google account plugin, for example, adds your gmail account, the twitter account plugin makes the twitter app work | 10:07 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it doesnt have to do just one thing | 10:07 |
| djszapi | I think you have a strange design :) | 10:07 |
| djszapi | and I personally do not have more time for it. | 10:07 |
| djszapi | :/ | 10:07 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I think you do not understand what an account plugin can do | 10:07 |
| djszapi | I would surely upstreamed what is not harmattan specific. | 10:07 |
| djszapi | oh no I never wrote one :) | 10:08 |
| djszapi | (ironic) | 10:08 |
| Sazpaimon_ | Im jsut saying an account plugin doesnt have to be just for conversations | 10:08 |
| Sazpaimon_ | it can do more | 10:08 |
| Sazpaimon_ | which is what my eventual plan for the steam account plugin is | 10:08 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | since the steam web API has the ability to do more than just send chat messages | 10:09 |
| djszapi | wrong design but whatever | 10:09 |
| djszapi | I would surely make the manager reusable. | 10:10 |
| djszapi | I mean imo wrong design. | 10:10 |
| Sazpaimon_ | how is it wrong design? it's following the same dsign as the other account plugins that have multiple uses | 10:10 |
| Sazpaimon_ | they all ship as one program | 10:10 |
| Sazpaimon_ | are you saying they are the wrong design too? | 10:10 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and I could probably still target fremantle with this if I didn't use any meegotouch components and just kept it straight qml | 10:12 |
| djszapiN9 | huh plain qml what.... | 10:13 |
| djszapiN9 | no this is not how other plugins work | 10:14 |
| djszapiN9 | it it the opposite... | 10:14 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the google plugin adds support for gchat and gmail | 10:16 |
| Sazpaimon_ | thats different things | 10:16 |
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| tbf | jpwhiting: hey, just noticed by accident you wondered how contactsd and its telepathy plugin work together? | 10:17 |
| djszapiN9 | avcou | 10:17 |
| Sazpaimon_ | the facebook plugin activates feeds on your feed screen, and activates the facebook app | 10:17 |
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| djszapiN9 | account plugins should be mostly ui | 10:17 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | the facebook plugin is a little more than UI | 10:17 |
| djszapiN9 | and most of the, simple xml file is enough for more than that, like plain paasword | 10:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so is the twitter plugin | 10:18 |
| Sazpaimon_ | they both have their own seperate apps that are tied to their account plugins | 10:18 |
| djszapiN9 | connection management, and sign on are way distinct layers. | 10:18 |
| djszapiN9 | client != plugin | 10:19 |
| djszapiN9 | and as i said one or two hours ago, tp is ok in clieny | 10:19 |
| djszapiN9 | most likely not in the plugin | 10:19 |
| djszapiN9 | tbf he probably sleeps in us, and he said he got the idea :) | 10:20 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so what would you suggest for my earlier issue | 10:21 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapiN9, you'll love the new irc-chatter | 10:21 |
| Sazpaimon_ | for when the user needs an access code to log in | 10:21 |
| tbf | djszapiN9: 'k | 10:21 |
| Venemo_N950 | anyway, goodbye | 10:21 |
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| djszapiN9 | Sazpaimon_, learn learn | 10:21 |
| tbf | jpwhiting: feel free to ask if you still have questions | 10:21 |
| djszapiN9 | tbf are you a tp dev ? | 10:22 |
| djszapiN9 | or contacts? | 10:22 |
| Sazpaimon_ | thats a terrible suggestion, you're basically saying "I dont know, figure it out youself" | 10:23 |
| Sazpaimon_ | and when I do figure it out myself, you say "no that's wrong, do it again" | 10:23 |
| tbf | djszapiN9: second | 10:23 |
| djszapiN9 | Sazpaimon_, you did not figure out yourself | 10:24 |
| djszapiN9 | that is the issue, you did even read the docs | 10:24 |
| djszapiN9 | not* | 10:24 |
| djszapiN9 | but you can amend it. | 10:24 |
| djszapiN9 | tbf vool :) | 10:24 |
| djszapiN9 | cool* | 10:25 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I have read the docs, and from what I understand from them, from the connection manager end, there's no way have the user know that they need to put an auth code in without the account plugin also doing some work | 10:26 |
| Sazpaimon_ | since they're seperate entities | 10:27 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | CM does all the background work, and the account manager handles the UI | 10:27 |
| djszapiN9 | that is what i said | 10:29 |
| djszapiN9 | 1-2 hours ago | 10:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | I already know this | 10:29 |
| djszapiN9 | no | 10:29 |
| Sazpaimon_ | but if there's a case when I need a specific message back from the server, what can I do? | 10:30 |
| djszapiN9 | you wanted to put functionality in the accoint | 10:30 |
| djszapiN9 | more than representing the ui | 10:30 |
| Sazpaimon_ | because there's nothing in the CM that can handle such an event | 10:30 |
| djszapiN9 | i am sorry, but i do not have time to to explain it more | 10:31 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | well i'll stick with what I have then because I can't really come up with an alternative | 10:32 |
| Sazpaimon_ | thanks anyway | 10:32 |
| djszapiN9 | signon documentation | 10:32 |
| kozzi | morning | 10:32 |
| djszapiN9 | keep reading | 10:32 |
| djszapiN9 | if you need special auth | 10:33 |
| djszapiN9 | make a special aignon plugin that is reusable | 10:33 |
| djszapiN9 | it really is not ui thing | 10:33 |
| djszapiN9 | though i wonder why you cannot start with plain password | 10:34 |
| Sazpaimon_ | because steam won't let you | 10:34 |
| Sazpaimon_ | you put in your username and password on a new device, and they send you an auth email | 10:34 |
| djszapiN9 | sad | 10:35 |
| djszapiN9 | but in any case | 10:35 |
| djszapiN9 | ui has nothing to do with non standard auth, or one not already supported by signon | 10:35 |
| djszapiN9 | and tell the standard creators to support openid, oauth etc | 10:36 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i really dont get what you're saying about having a seperate signon plugin | 10:38 |
| Sazpaimon_ | so when the user clicks steam on the accounts list, what app loads | 10:38 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | Im just trying to visualize what youre saying | 10:39 |
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| djszapi | https://build.pub.meego.com/search/search -> Does the search work for someone else ? | 11:17 |
| dm8tbr | WFM | 11:18 |
| djszapi | dm8tbr: https://build.pub.meego.com/ if you type at the top right corner ? | 11:19 |
| dm8tbr | Message: undefined method `strip' for nil:NilClass | 11:19 |
| djszapi | yep, ok, thanks. | 11:20 |
| djszapi | so the indirect access to the search is broken...bugreport. | 11:20 |
| djszapi | X-Fade lbt: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24955 | 11:22 |
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| lbt | yeah - we know, needs an upgrade ... thanks for the bug though :) | 11:24 |
| djszapi | heh, np :) | 11:24 |
| djszapi | jonni: ping | 11:32 |
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| djszapi | lbt: minor issue, but the the text of the last column in the build status table gets out of the cell here: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan | 11:57 |
| djszapi | (It was not like that previously) | 11:58 |
| lbt | that's an upstream bug - I know they'd appreciate a screenshot and a bug report | 11:59 |
| lbt | let me know if you need the sha1 of the version we use | 11:59 |
| djszapi | screenshot done. | 11:59 |
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| pa | is there a way to disable on the N9 the annoying feature "battery is too low to continue with the installation"? | 12:12 |
| pa | basically under 10% i cant install anything | 12:12 |
| pa | it sucks | 12:12 |
| djszapi | would you instead like to mess up your phone ? | 12:13 |
| pa | oh come on, it can install a 72kb app with 8% battery | 12:14 |
| djszapi | except if something is heavily consuming the battery in the background. | 12:14 |
| pa | it doesnt even let me enqueue these installations... | 12:14 |
| pa | and i dont want to charge it until it's 0%.. | 12:17 |
| pa | sigh | 12:17 |
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| dymaxion | pa, your battery will last a lot longer if you *don't* discharge it to 0%. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries | 13:31 |
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| Jaffa | Good grief, I sometimes hate the Internet. The fuss being made over updates to developer-mode and x11vnc are a little... embarrassing. | 13:40 |
| pa | dymaxion, that's what most say. my experience doesnt say the same, tho.. | 13:41 |
| auenf | i assume noone has worked out what causes pulseaudio to use 7% cpu forever after a call? | 13:51 |
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| * RST38h moos | 13:58 | |
| Jaffa | RST38h: moo | 14:05 |
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| Jaffa | Anyone know how to get proper padding when putting a BusyIndicator in a ToolBarLayout? Source: https://gitorious.org/jaffas-playground/sas/blobs/master/qml/SAS/main.qml ends up with http://bleb.org/software/maemo/harmattan-throbber.png | 14:06 |
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| djszapi | Jaffa: have you tried margins, spacings, and anchors ? | 14:39 |
| djszapi | if nothing helps, put them into a row. | 14:40 |
| djszapi | ToolIcons use centerIn: parent; for instance. | 14:40 |
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| * ArkanoiD- still cannot understand why do some twitter contacts appear in the address book while others do not. | 15:31 | |
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| Jaffa | djszapi: Putting it in a ToolIcon, and then centerIn: parent worked. | 15:44 |
| djszapi | Jaffa: nice :) | 15:44 |
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| djszapi | lol I did not know this "creatorproject" thingy...quite handy..should be documented on some wikipage. | 16:19 |
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| jpwhiting | tbf: ping | 18:05 |
| jpwhiting | are you meaning about how contactsd works? | 18:05 |
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| pa | is it possible to plug the N9 to a PC just for charging? | 18:21 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | pa: yep, in fact that's the default | 18:21 |
| pa | ah, cool | 18:22 |
| pa | i have another question | 18:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what can be done to alleviate audio stuttering on N9 | 18:22 |
| pa | i read somewhere that someone managed to enable usb host on the N9 | 18:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | playing a mod file through milkytracker, pulseaudio is using 20% cpu and stutters when the phone transfers to the lp screen | 18:22 |
| pa | does anybody know anything about it? | 18:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | CPU: 56.2% usr 18.7% sys 0.0% nic 25.0% idle < !!! | 18:23 |
| pa | by the way, did someone ever understood why pulseaudio? what was wrong with using just alsa? | 18:23 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | pa: apparently it provides more sophisticated mixing than plain alsa | 18:25 |
| pa | i never had mixing problems before pulseaudio appeared | 18:26 |
| Clint | same here | 18:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: because you weren't doing sophisticated mixing things? /me shrugs | 18:27 |
| pa | hmm like what? | 18:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not actually sure ._> | 18:28 |
| pa | :) | 18:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | apparently nokia updated the dev mode packages (some of them) for pr1.2 | 18:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | developer-mode 1.35 -> 1.42 | 18:28 |
| pa | and by the way, gnome people have been complaining about artsd, and they ended up redoing the same | 18:28 |
| pa | oh, another thing: given the strange usb plug on the n9 (on top), is it possible to use it actually upside down? (like in the car, for example) | 18:30 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | ...why wouldn't it | 18:35 |
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| beford | he probably wants to rotate the screen | 18:37 |
| ottoflux | the internet is full of incomplete (or incorrect) info on N9/950 google/caldav stuff. noticed that the 0th cal (default) doesn't seem to sync, or more appropriately it doesn't seem to display. | 18:38 |
| pa | and another thing: is there the swype for n9? like to type on the keyboard | 18:38 |
| pa | (what was the lock screen customization app called?) | 18:39 |
| djszapi | yes, sort of. | 18:39 |
| beford | there is swype installed by default, you may need to enable it | 18:39 |
| pa | ah ok | 18:39 |
| pa | didnt find it | 18:39 |
| ottoflux | @pa - settings, time and lanuage, text input, Swype | 18:39 |
| beford | lpsmagic ? | 18:39 |
| ottoflux | anyone have info on actual bugs that correctly define the google/caldav/calendar issue? | 18:40 |
| pa | weird.. i press on text input and nothing happens | 18:40 |
| ottoflux | @pa - no menu comes up? | 18:41 |
| ottoflux | should have active input mentod, etc. | 18:41 |
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| pa | no, nothing comes up | 18:41 |
| pa | ah yes | 18:42 |
| pa | now it made it | 18:42 |
| pa | it took a while | 18:42 |
| ottoflux | 3rd item should be Swype. haven | 18:42 |
| ottoflux | ... haven't played with it, but it's there. | 18:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a note: swype was added with pr1.1 | 18:44 |
| pa | definitely buggy | 18:45 |
| pa | turned on | 18:45 |
| pa | keyboard doesnt show up anymore | 18:45 |
| pa | but it's there | 18:45 |
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| pa | hmm.. it fucked up my phone.. lets try to reboot | 18:47 |
| pa | it was extra slow, and keyboard was missing | 18:47 |
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| ottoflux | ah, i'm not really a fan of swype text input anyway :) | 18:51 |
| pa | yes, and actually now i managed to nenable it, but dont get how it works.. it doesnt swipe... maybe i just have to wait 1.2 :) | 18:55 |
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| ottoflux | good luck! | 18:58 |
| pa | i read it should come out in feb | 18:59 |
| ottoflux | i'm about to sell mine if i can't get the google/caldav/calendar issue fixed. | 18:59 |
| ottoflux | yep. it should be soon. | 18:59 |
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| pa | ottoflux, 16 or 64? :) | 18:59 |
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| ottoflux | i'm hoping that fixes the caldav issue. i've seen some bugs that look to be addressed in 1.2 - 64 | 18:59 |
| pa | im looking for a 64 one :) | 18:59 |
| ottoflux | it's beautiful, but until i get that working it's like being married to a supermodel who doesn't want to talk to you. :) | 19:00 |
| jonni | ottoflux: what kind of caldav issue do you have? for me google caldav works just fine in pr1.1? | 19:00 |
| pa | you mean in the browser or where? | 19:00 |
| djszapi | jonni ping | 19:01 |
| jonni | pong | 19:01 |
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| ottoflux | from adding a caldav account | 19:01 |
| djszapi | jonni private pm internally | 19:01 |
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| ottoflux | it syncs, but my first (0th) cal doesn't display while my second does. | 19:02 |
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| ottoflux | can increase the number of cals to display at the 'iphoneselect' url and they show, just not the primary calendar. | 19:02 |
| ottoflux | i'm guessing it's an issue with how google serves it up, or with how meego consumes it. | 19:03 |
| ottoflux | or possibly just the calendar not pulling it up correctly. | 19:03 |
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| pa | they might fix it.. in case they dont pm me when you decide to sell your phone :) | 19:06 |
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| ottoflux | ha ha ... will do. it's really the only OS i like, Android is getting to constricted like iOS | 19:11 |
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| pa | yes | 19:15 |
| pa | it's more like a real linux | 19:15 |
| pa | btw OTG is not yet possible, right? | 19:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | right, the thing about android is that it has a linux kernel but nothing else | 19:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's linux but not gnu/linux | 19:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (didn't think i'd ever use "gnu/linux" in a serious context :p) | 19:19 |
| ottoflux | which OTG? | 19:19 |
| pa | host | 19:20 |
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| pa | that you can plug for example a powered hard drive to it | 19:20 |
| pa | and mount it | 19:20 |
| ottoflux | yeah, not sure - i don't know if it's planned or not but i'm oretty sure it's not in 1.1 | 19:21 |
| ottoflux | oretty = pretty | 19:21 |
| pa | last question | 19:21 |
| pa | is there a windows software for n9? and to do what? | 19:22 |
| ottoflux | NokiaLink for transferring/syncing audio/video/etc | 19:22 |
| pa | ah, just that? ok thanks | 19:22 |
| ottoflux | http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/nokia-link | 19:22 |
| ottoflux | yeah, it integrates nicely with iTunes and Win Media Player, but that's it. | 19:23 |
| ottoflux | it's a lot faster than the old Nok multimedia transfer with N900, so that's a plus. | 19:23 |
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| ottoflux | have to get back to work for now, might be on later. feel free to pm me if anyone runs across a specific bug on this, or after 1.2 is out to see if it's fixed. | 19:26 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | pa: you can use Nokia Suite | 19:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but they sabotaged it to block N9 support, even though it's fully functional | 19:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it seems to work if you start with ovi suite 3.0.290 and add your N9 | 19:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then upgrade to 3.2 (not 3.3!) | 19:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | re-add your N9 if needed | 19:29 |
| pa | and what does it do? | 19:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then you can use it to tether and sync stuff | 19:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | only feature that doesn't work is map download | 19:29 |
| pa | ah i see | 19:29 |
| pa | is that the only way to tether via usb? | 19:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | on windows, more or less | 19:30 |
| pa | or does it work with mS active sync? | 19:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | definitely not | 19:30 |
| pa | i see | 19:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | activesync is for old winmo ONLY | 19:30 |
| pa | thanks for the tip :) | 19:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not wp7, not dumbphones, certainly not harmattan | 19:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and thank goodness, it's a horrible piece of software in all its incarnations | 19:30 |
| pa | true :) | 19:30 |
| pa | had to use it with my old tytn | 19:31 |
| pa | and on linux, how to tether via usb? | 19:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: networkmanager has built-in support for it | 19:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | plug it in, with sync and connect mode, and it'll prompt you to add it | 19:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yay, lbt sorted out my OBS account | 19:33 |
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| faenil | Just got the 3years degreee in Computer Scienceeee | 19:57 |
| faenil | I'm spamming the chats XD | 19:57 |
| faenil | :D | 19:57 |
| ieatlint | congrats | 19:58 |
| ieatlint | should've gone with philosophy though, a lot more jobs there | 19:58 |
| faenil | ieatlint: ahahah | 20:00 |
| ieatlint | today is my last day working on-site at a customer, and i get to go home tonight :) | 20:01 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 20:01 |
| djszapiN9 | Congrats man! | 20:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | nice | 20:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://icofx.ro/ < hrm, i could swear this used to be free | 20:04 |
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| faenil | djszapiN9: Thanks! :D | 20:06 |
| * djszapiN9 has the qt cert exam on Monday | 20:08 | |
| faenil | djszapiN9: you're going to fail it! lol | 20:12 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | so on the desktop it's normal to have a prompt when closing an app that edits files, if there are unsaved changes | 20:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | how is that supposed to be handled on harmattan | 20:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | as it stands, if there's a modified file open, exiting milkytracker defocuses it instead, with a prompt box open asking whether to save | 20:23 |
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| rzr | djszapi: exam lol ? btw i am just learning qml | 21:00 |
| djszapi | rzr: nice :) | 21:01 |
| djszapi | rzr: how are you ? | 21:01 |
| rzr | djszapi: well i needed a text editor so I created mine | 21:01 |
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| djszapi | rzr: I think we could think of decoupling the current community repository at some point into middleware and application repositories. | 21:04 |
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| djszapi | X-Fade ping | 21:05 |
| rzr | djszapi: whare are the benefits ? | 21:05 |
| rzr | djszapi: when I try to build apps I try to make sure the version is in 0.0.x form | 21:06 |
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| djszapi | rzr: it is better to put apps into app stores. | 21:06 |
| rzr | then the other repo will overide those beta packages | 21:06 |
| rzr | thats the idea | 21:06 |
| rzr | but most of those packages are just basic snapshot .. i feel the authors should push to the official repo | 21:07 |
| djszapi | so we could serve as a middlware dependency repository for app stores, like meego4apps | 21:07 |
| rzr | i plan to do that w/ redactily | 21:07 |
| djszapi | apps4meego* | 21:07 |
| rzr | djszapi: this would be unsecure | 21:07 |
| djszapi | what would be unsecure ? | 21:08 |
| rzr | libs4meego should ensure the same if not higher quality of app4meeg | 21:08 |
| djszapi | of course. | 21:08 |
| rzr | ok then the shared repo is just the place for junkies tramp like us :-) | 21:09 |
| djszapi | my applications do not make too much sense for the current community repository. | 21:09 |
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| rzr | well what i would suggest | 21:09 |
| djszapi | since they would need separate packaging for app stores, like ovi, and the community repository. | 21:09 |
| djszapi | so I think we should create an app repository | 21:09 |
| djszapi | and push all the apps from the community repository in there. | 21:09 |
| rzr | is that we tear out of the shared repo interessing packages and push them into app4meego and lib4meego ? | 21:10 |
| djszapi | so that would be a transient/fallback one. | 21:10 |
| rzr | that's the idea | 21:10 |
| djszapi | I am not sure what libs4meego is. | 21:10 |
| rzr | as I said I try to keep the apps version low | 21:10 |
| djszapi | I think our community repository could be that. | 21:10 |
| rzr | libs4meego would be the same as apps4meego w/ the same quality level | 21:11 |
| djszapi | this would be the first step. I would consider later even better separation, like KDE MiddleWare, Gnome middleware etc. | 21:11 |
| djszapi | but this is the very first step. | 21:11 |
| djszapi | libs4meego could be the current repository in my opinion. | 21:11 |
| rzr | why separate kde and gnome ? | 21:11 |
| djszapi | we just need to eliminate the apps from there. | 21:11 |
| djszapi | rzr: clear separation for dedicated goals. | 21:12 |
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| djszapi | you do not need to wait for gnome packages, if you are a kde packager for instance. | 21:12 |
| rzr | the best is to ask users ? | 21:13 |
| rzr | i think there are already too much repos | 21:13 |
| djszapi | I think the very first step is creating an applications repository. | 21:13 |
| rzr | and I dont like the idea that we should rely only on ovi | 21:13 |
| rzr | djszapi: that's the job for app4meego | 21:13 |
| rzr | i think | 21:13 |
| djszapi | and start pushing the apps from the community repository (which is going to be the libs4meego repository hopefully) to that transient/fallback/playground application repository. | 21:14 |
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| rzr | IMHO, I wish we can mentor more pple to help app's packagers to push their apps to a4m | 21:14 |
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| rzr | lbt: X-Fade ? | 21:14 |
| djszapi | obviously, but we cannot remove them at this point. | 21:14 |
| djszapi | we need to put them into a location until they are being published to app stores. | 21:15 |
| rzr | let me suggest to start on thread on the forum | 21:15 |
| djszapi | and I do not even mind their existence after that, as a playground repository since it does not hurt. | 21:15 |
| rzr | its always good to hear feedback from users | 21:15 |
| rzr | btw did you kow of meecatalog ? | 21:15 |
| djszapi | of course. | 21:15 |
| rzr | I just discovered it lately | 21:15 |
| rzr | btw we did not talk about the debian repo too :-) | 21:17 |
| rzr | well I think we should ask also the infrastructures pple of obs too | 21:17 |
| rzr | bbl | 21:18 |
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| djszapi | rzr: Mer/Nemo/PA does what I proposed. | 21:18 |
| rZr | ok good to know | 21:18 |
| djszapi | they even tune it better. | 21:18 |
| djszapi | but I do not think we should hurry with that | 21:18 |
| djszapi | if we can manage the first step, we already achieve a lot. | 21:19 |
| djszapi | rZr: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/OBS | 21:19 |
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| djszapi | so I would go for Harmattan:Applications and Harmattan:Middleware | 21:21 |
| djszapi | the latter is the current, the former would be a freshly established. | 21:21 |
| djszapi | note the fact, libs4meego is a wrong term because of more reasons: 1) The target is Harmattan, not MeeGo in that sense 2) They are not just libraries, but also platforms, certain utils, so more or less like a Middleware container term. | 21:22 |
| djszapi | rZr: and yes, we could call for volunteers on forums, definitely. | 21:24 |
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| djszapi | rZr: would you like to create this apps repository for experimenting in rzr, or shall I do that ? I would personally appreciate it in the same place, somewhere a subproject in rzr. | 21:44 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | is anyone able to use NAVIFIRM right now? | 22:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | nm, false alarm | 22:03 |
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| beford | who wants to help me to figure out why ovi is not approving my app :3 | 22:07 |
| beford | it could be you itsnotabigtruck | 22:07 |
| beford | xD | 22:07 |
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| Chaz6 | I wish obdscope would be ported to n9 :( | 22:10 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | beford: >_> | 22:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what's the issue | 22:20 |
| beford | i've no idea | 22:21 |
| beford | they claim it crashes | 22:21 |
| beford | but I tested in on RDA | 22:21 |
| beford | and it worked | 22:21 |
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| bindi | greetings, totally offtopic here | 23:06 |
| bindi | but does anyone know of a SIP server software that supports SIMPLE? instant messaging that is | 23:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | bindi: i think most sip servers *support* it...not sure if it's a great idea to use it though | 23:06 |
| bindi | well, I tried asterisk, and doesn't seem to support it out of the box, googling doesn't help | 23:07 |
| bindi | why isn't it a great idea to use it? | 23:07 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | bindi: it never took off, at all | 23:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's really only used as part of microsoft's corporate IM system, which isn't 100% simple compatible anyway | 23:12 |
| bindi | yeah i read about microsoft lync | 23:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | XMPP does the same things better | 23:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | problem is that nokia didn't include a gui to set up an XMPP account unless you use google talk | 23:13 |
| bindi | good question btw, does N9 let you do messaging with sip/simple (whichever you call it) | 23:13 |
| bindi | csipsimple on my droid does that | 23:14 |
| bindi | friend has an n9 | 23:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, simple = messaging over sip | 23:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and n9 has that | 23:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but you're really better off using xmpp | 23:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | N9 even supports doing voice calls with xmpp | 23:14 |
| bindi | well you just said it needs google talk | 23:15 |
| jonni | beford: you are not using com.nokia.extras, which is the most command reason for failure? | 23:15 |
| bindi | also i'm not finding anything that integrates well with android | 23:15 |
| jonni | s/command/common/ | 23:15 |
| infobot | jonni meant: beford: you are not using com.nokia.extras, which is the most common reason for failure? | 23:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | doesn't gtalk integrate extremely well with android? :p | 23:16 |
| bindi | that's google talk right? it's bugging atm - can't verify my number (just stuck at "verifying your number"), apparently i should have done the verifying on a PC first | 23:17 |
| beford | jonni, I'm using it, but 1.0 and no fancy components. ovi claims it crashes after doing something and i've been unable to reproduce it | 23:17 |
| bindi | er, google voice* | 23:17 |
| jonni | beford: so your not haing the com.nokia.extras 1.1 (your not allowed to use that) vs com.nokia.extras 1.0 issue, | 23:18 |
| jonni | having | 23:18 |
| jonni | most likely your just using something that is not avail in pr1.0, but is in pr1.1. Usually its that people import extras 1.1 which fails on 1.0, or they try to use some parts of componets that were not avail in 1.0 | 23:21 |
| jonni | just point url to deb, and Im sure someone from this channel can reproduce and tell whats wrong | 23:22 |
| jonni | I left my spare N9 downgrade device at work, so I'm not much of a help today though. | 23:24 |
| jonni | or if your using tumblerdialog you also get qa reject, since that is not in pr1.0. | 23:31 |
| beford | no, just listview | 23:33 |
| beford | let me get the deb I submitted to ovi | 23:33 |
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| bindi | okay fine itsnotabigtruck, i'll use xmpp | 23:36 |
| bindi | now tell me, which server software to use? | 23:36 |
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| ieatlint | looks like some updates out today for the n9 | 23:58 |
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