IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2011-12-17

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tarantism	Hi all, Is it possible for an application to inhibit swipe to minimise/close? I'm getting many accidental closes due to multi-touches that are nothing like a swipe.	00:09
ieatlint	yes	00:12
ieatlint	trying to find the page on that now	00:13
kimju	someone even made an app for disabling that	00:13
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ieatlint	http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Enabling_swipe_lock.html?tab=3&q=swipe&sp=all	00:15
gri	yay, finally after 16 days "Good news! The QA team will allow global distribution of the application. The	00:15
gri	content is now in the final stages of QA and it should be published shortly."	00:15
tarantism	ieatlint: Thanks very much indeed. I didn't know about those docs.	00:16
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MohammadAG	MList allows multiselection but there's no way to get a list of selected items	01:10
MohammadAG	wohooo for excellent API	01:10
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gri	MohammadAG: erm it has a QItemSelectionModel?	01:21
MohammadAG	gri, and that does what?	01:24
gri	handling selections?	01:25
gri	like it does on every QAbstractItemView?	01:25
MohammadAG	QListView has a selectedIndexes method	01:27
MohammadAG	why doesn't MList have the same?	01:27
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gri	yes, which is a forward to selectionModel()->selectedIndexes()	01:27
gri	selectedIndexes() is very evil if you have a lot of items	01:27
gri	(which will never happen on a mobile ui)	01:28
MohammadAG	oh	01:28
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gri	http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?229941-Suggestions-for-App&p=865520&viewfull=1#post865520	01:36
gri	that's why we have so much crap/appwizard/spam apps ...	01:36
ieatlint	haha	01:39
ieatlint	that and advertising	01:39
ieatlint	i'm going to make an app that just tells you what century it is and charge $2 for it	01:40
ieatlint	it'll use advanced proven astrology to get its answer	01:40
gri	:D	01:40
gri	I'll do "drill sergeant", an app that will shout at you all the time no matter if you set your phone to silent or not :D	01:41
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ieatlint	how about just make an application that claims it can "hack computers" when plugged into them, and instead just sends you their imsi and contact list	01:43
gri	really, why do we code when I see "Famous Quotes" in the ovi store which is a AppWizard application that simply displays a damn rss feed, costs 4.99 € and even has some idiot who rated it and therefore paid for it?	01:44
ieatlint	we call those schills	01:44
gri	ieatlint: I bet ovi content guidelines forbid me to transfer the contact list :(	01:44
* SpeedEvil should not have responded to that thread gri.		01:45
ieatlint	:P	01:46
gri	I really do not understand why they allow setting a price for those rss feed crap	01:47
gri	that not those	01:47
SpeedEvil	Oh - thanks for reminding me - I have a response to my other thread that I'd missed.	01:49
SpeedEvil	http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?227400-Browser-proxy-outside-S40.&p=857824#post857824	01:49
ieatlint	programming is hard, you're just being elitist by insisting everyone who writes apps has to know how to do it	01:50
SpeedEvil	But not a good response.	01:50
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javispedro	SpeedEvil: you are great (re that comment on the thread)	01:51
SpeedEvil	I'd much rather have found a positive response to the s40 proxy	01:52
SpeedEvil	webcompressor	01:52
ieatlint	how about an app that costs $10 and just tells the buyer that they're irresponsible with their money	01:52
SpeedEvil	I can see RSS for money having apoint.	01:53
SpeedEvil	For example, someones blog that they want contributions for.	01:53
javispedro	creating money from nothingness seems to be the rule these days, so why not	01:53
SpeedEvil	If it's generally useful.	01:53
gri	SpeedEvil: a contribution where nokia takes 30% off? (don't know the percentage, that's only a guess)	01:53
SpeedEvil	30% of n >0	01:54
ieatlint	it's like 2000 again, except instead of web companies its mobile apps	01:54
ieatlint	which has suddenly reminded me of this http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Farticles.cnn.com%2F2011-10-20%2Ftech%2Ftech_web_mc-hammer-search-engine_1_search-engine-mc-hammer-google%3F_s%3DPM%3ATECH&ei=Z9rrTvT1CvTYiALFqI2KBA&usg=AFQjCNGE4TPJeecpoQzmXtTPMQ-2LSs-VQ	01:55
ieatlint	blah, damn you google and your urls	01:55
ieatlint	http://articles.cnn.com/2011-10-20/tech/tech_web_mc-hammer-search-engine_1_search-engine-mc-hammer-google?_s=PM:TECH	01:55
gri	I hate these "related entries" in newspapers, ovi apps etc.	01:57
javispedro	time to hear this tired old song again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6IQ_FOCE6I	01:57
gri	especially that store.ovi.com does display the "similar apps" by default instead of the comments and rating of an application	01:58
tomma	and usualy those similiar apps are only similiar by not being any way related	02:01
gri	"you like crap? you might also like ..."	02:02
yipdw	it occasionally seems to work -- related applications for Spotify include "Internet Radio Player", "gPodder Podcast Client", and, amusingly, Spotify	02:02
yipdw	at least we know that an application is related to itself	02:02
yipdw	or maybe there's multiple entries named "Spotify"	02:03
gri	I think the website lists all versions for an application if you haven't selected an device	02:04
yipdw	that result list is from the Store application on my N9	02:04
yipdw	if that's returning results for all devices, that's pretty broken :P	02:04
gri	well for now I just used the n9 and never symbian. But today I logged into a rda device and added my ovi account	02:05
gri	and the symbian ovi app displayed all my n9 apps	02:05
gri	but I haven't tried what happens when I click on them	02:05
tomma	i hope you removed that account after you used that rda device	02:07
gri	sure :)	02:07
tomma	it is pretty sad after you log in to device and notice someone has used facebook account there...	02:08
gri	but I found a n9 from rda where users did not remove their nokia account ...	02:08
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: WOW	02:09
DocScrutinizer	yipdw: hooray! frooble: similar to snuzzle, oooomphla, and gruuun - now I know exactly how useful and awesome frooble is XP	02:11
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DocScrutinizer	incidentally I have no fucking clie what's spotify	02:12
DocScrutinizer	clue even	02:12
yipdw	DocScrutinizer: well, yeah, frooble might as well be closely related to those, just as it's closely related to foo, bar, and other metasyntacticals	02:12
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DocScrutinizer	if you missed the pint... not my fault	02:13
DocScrutinizer	point	02:13
DocScrutinizer	though I think you also missed a pint	02:14
yipdw	I think I get your point, but it's weakened if you don't know what Spotify is (it's a music streaming service)	02:14
ieatlint	i want a pint	02:14
yipdw	in that light there is a relationship between that application and the others	02:14
DocScrutinizer	so what?	02:14
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: you're a source of great web3.0 application names!	02:14
yipdw	so a client for a music streaming service is related to other music streaming applications via the fact that they all stream audio	02:15
* javispedro goes register ooooomphla.gruun.net		02:15
yipdw	I didn't say it was a great relationship, but it is one	02:15
yipdw	I'm also not sure why you're attacking me over this	02:15
ieatlint	ls	02:15
ieatlint	er..	02:15
javispedro	ieatlint: Pipe broken	02:15
ieatlint	:(	02:16
DocScrutinizer	yipdw: sorry, a long nourished hatred against product detail specs like "xfrooble: an X GUI for frooble" - - WTF IS frooble?? KTNXBY	02:18
yipdw	DocScrutinizer: I understand that, but the description for the Spotify client lists it in the "Music" category and describes what Spotify is	02:19
ieatlint	but frooble is awesome	02:19
yipdw	it really isn't that bad of a description	02:19
DocScrutinizer	k, then sorry for me kicking in inmidst the convo	02:19
ieatlint	should make "xwhich: an X GUI for which"	02:19
yipdw	additionally, someone who is looking for Spotify is going to know what it is; and someone who sees it in a list of relationships for music player applications can (well, should be able) to infer that it has something to do with music	02:19
yipdw	admittedly, the Ovi Store relationships do fail at this in some instances	02:20
yipdw	like the Battery Usage application is listed as being related to a flashlight app (what?)	02:20
DocScrutinizer	probably both use python XP	02:21
yipdw	they're both categorized as utilities, which I guess is part of the problem -- "utilities" is IMO a really terrible category, because you can throw so much into it	02:21
DocScrutinizer	btw Battery Usage application might do exactly what the name suggests, other than what you thought it might do	02:22
yipdw	it reports battery usage, yeah	02:22
DocScrutinizer	it uses battery	02:22
DocScrutinizer	quite a lot	02:22
* javispedro lols		02:22
javispedro	Battery Usage is this -- http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VUl9vmSgIu8/TtJ0s1hrctI/AAAAAAAAA7I/E6ULxbpWxGE/s1600/pa1-192x192.PNG ?	02:23
javispedro	hm... how could it even try to estimate that information?	02:24
SpeedEvil	wakeups	02:24
DocScrutinizer	BSAHAHA	02:25
DocScrutinizer	well, it's funny and coloful	02:25
yipdw	not sure; I can't find its source code	02:25
DocScrutinizer	I'd add jumping hamsters	02:26
yipdw	but, yeah, a similar method to powertop, probably	02:26
DocScrutinizer	BS	02:26
DocScrutinizer	sorry	02:26
yipdw	BS on what?	02:26
yipdw	do you mean that powertop's reports are BS?	02:26
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil and ShadowJK and me are probably the 3 guys that know most about power consumption and how to measure it	02:27
yipdw	in that case, please enlighten me as to why powertop's reports are bogus	02:27
yipdw	"BS" isn't very educational	02:27
SpeedEvil	Powertop is almost bogus.	02:27
DocScrutinizer	and yoiu can not measure what's printed there	02:27
SpeedEvil	For example, wakeups are not a very good proxy of anything.	02:27
DocScrutinizer	yipdw: how could I educate you on a false assumption made by YOU?	02:28
SpeedEvil	You can wake up 4 times in a millisecond, and it will use essentially no power over waking up once.	02:28
yipdw	DocScrutinizer: I didn't make any assumptions about veracity of poewrtop	02:28
DocScrutinizer	I never even mentioned powertop	02:28
SpeedEvil	And md5sum /dev/zero will have no wakeups, but use 100% of CPU	02:28
SpeedEvil	Measuring power use is _hard_.	02:28
yipdw	what I'm saying is that what the Battery Usage application might do is something similar to powertop	02:28
SpeedEvil	If you want to attribute that use to processes.	02:28
yipdw	I don't know how accurate it is	02:28
DocScrutinizer	and I'm not a nice guy as SpeedEvil	02:28
yipdw	nor did I claim it was accurate	02:28
yipdw	however, if you can tell me why powertop is usually inaccurate, or at least provide papers or publications to such information, I'm happy to read them	02:29
DocScrutinizer	I could educate you though why ls or df figures are bogus for battery consumption	02:29
yipdw	I'm not really sure what ls or df figures have to do with battery consumption	02:29
javispedro	as I human I have a hard time attributing causes of power consumption, I am quite surprised someone would attempt to do it automatically	02:30
DocScrutinizer	I'm not sure what powertop has to do with battery consumption	02:30
yipdw	DocScrutinizer: dude, if you don't want to tell me, then just say so	02:30
yipdw	don't give me some run-around	02:30
DocScrutinizer	well, Iam sure it's mostly unrelated	02:30
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DocScrutinizer	powertop is just monitoring one thing: CPU wakeups	02:32
DocScrutinizer	powertop has no fucking clue about e.g modem eating MASSIVE energy for TX	02:32
yipdw	ok	02:32
yipdw	thanks	02:33
yipdw	I'm really not out to make you look bad, seriously	02:33
SpeedEvil	As another analogy, powertop is trying to work out how much energy your house is using by analysing the sound it makes.	02:33
yipdw	I'm not trying to claim that powertop or any other automated method actually works, because I don't know	02:33
yipdw	all I said is that the battery usage application might use the same method	02:34
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yipdw	sorry if power management touches a nerve, but seriously, calm down	02:34
DocScrutinizer	maybe it does, and then it's bogus	02:34
yipdw	that's fine	02:34
javispedro	note that the intel version of powertop, on acpi platforms, actually reports current current (A)	02:35
DocScrutinizer	maybe it's way smarter (actually possible) and tries to weigh power consumption of different subsystems by monitoring a twohundered system parameters, but still there are domains it is doomed to fail: phone for example	02:36
yipdw	no idea; as I mentioned I haven't yet been able to find its source	02:36
javispedro	that's where my comment of "I'm having a hard time to do it as a human" fits in =)	02:36
javispedro	doing it meaningfully requires quite a handful of rules	02:37
M4rtinK	X-Fade: you here ? :)	02:37
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: and you won't get powerfactor for TX from modem, it keeps it	02:37
javispedro	and will still have thousands of weird cases, which usually happen when one is interested in power usage..	02:37
DocScrutinizer	I.E your modem, during phonecall, may get advice from BTS to send with 10mW or with 2W, or anything in between. No way to tell	02:38
DocScrutinizer	for data the situation is similar	02:39
DocScrutinizer	(actually even there is some way to tell, but it seems BB5 doesn't support it)	02:40
DocScrutinizer	this way is meant to reduce WLAN TX power when modem sends with Pgsm so that Pwlan + Pgsm is not exceeding a certain maximum	02:41
DocScrutinizer	I haven't heard of this feature ever been implemented in real life	02:42
yipdw	so powertop's pretty much useless on a phone because all it can do is measure what the CPU is doing, and is oblivious to coprocessors and indeed any other component	02:43
DocScrutinizer	mostly	02:43
DocScrutinizer	it's useful to find runaway processes that hog the CPU	02:44
DocScrutinizer	actually one of the most useful values it printsa out is the percentage CPU stays in certain C-states	02:45
DocScrutinizer	and certain clockspeeds	02:46
Richlv	ouch, http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/11/connect-bluetooth-keyboard-n9/ sounds complicated for such a simple task. is that approach the best available ?	02:46
DocScrutinizer	since not too long ago "official" msg was "bt kbd doesn't work at all with harmatan"	02:47
DocScrutinizer	so anything better than that can't be completely bad ;-)	02:47
DocScrutinizer	s/since/until/	02:48
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders if there'll be any silicon arriving for slaughtering before xmess		02:49
DocScrutinizer	pending: GTA04, hooker800	02:50
Richlv	DocScrutinizer, heh, ok, thanks :)	02:51
* javispedro ponders if I'll get my VGA card before christmas		02:53
javispedro	starting to get tired of 16bpp	02:53
* DocScrutinizer ponders to order a VGA card at Amazon for javispedro		02:53
DocScrutinizer	when Asus returns your smoked-up one, we build a railgun out of it and shoot a new window to Asus building	02:54
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javispedro	plain rocks will be enough	02:56
* ieatlint actually lives not far from their US HQ		02:56
ieatlint	i can go throw some rocks for you next week	02:56
javispedro	I think I'll spare the US guys, the problem lies in the EU branch	02:57
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javispedro	but I appreciate the offer.	02:57
MohammadAG	woo, facebook checkins 100% done	02:58
MohammadAG	well, 99.9%, till I figure out how to preselect items	02:58
MohammadAG	but that's not that major	02:58
MohammadAG	about 5 times the lines of code for Fremantle though	03:00
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG, your occasional posts get ever more gibberish ;-P	03:00
MohammadAG	Sociality for Harmattan	03:00
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DocScrutinizer	aaah	03:00
MohammadAG	cause the built in client sucks	03:00
MohammadAG	the UI's good, but slow, very very slow	03:00
MohammadAG	Sociality doesn't have the same good UI, but is way too quick	03:00
MohammadAG	even compared to the iPhone app	03:00
mck182	hey all, I'm trying to build my first n9 app but I'm stuck with this: http://paste.kde.org/174794	03:00
mck182	I'm using the latest sdk downloaded straight from nokia	03:01
DocScrutinizer	shall I place a bet what's the problem ;-P	03:01
mck182	I have a project with two subprojects - a lib and an ui	03:01
Richlv	ah, there's some gui manager for bt keyboards - http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4828&page=3	03:01
mck182	DocScrutinizer: packaging issue....but /me knows squat about that	03:03
MohammadAG	and Qt Creator segfaulted	03:05
MohammadAG	yay	03:05
DocScrutinizer	I place all my money I have in my hand on MSSF	03:06
DocScrutinizer	aka aegis and related policy	03:07
MohammadAG	hmm, MeeGoHomeTouch seems to fork all processes	03:07
MohammadAG	not to*	03:07
DocScrutinizer	MeeGoHomeRun err MeeGo TouchDown	03:11
MohammadAG	killing it kills all processes	03:12
MohammadAG	much like restarting SpringBoard on iOS	03:12
MohammadAG	I miss when you could restart hildon-desktop without killing processes	03:12
* merlin1991 wants to see sociality on the n9 as soon as possible		03:13
merlin1991	inbuilt client is so bad speed wise	03:13
MohammadAG	checkins take 6s	03:13
MohammadAG	(assuming you already have a GPS lock)	03:13
* DocScrutinizer wants to see a proper OS on N9(50) as soon as possible		03:13
MohammadAG	where the fuck should icons go so they're not red squares!	03:14
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer: baybe steps ;)	03:14
DocScrutinizer	with a limited but selected number of apps	03:14
MohammadAG	let's start with spelling baby correctly	03:14
merlin1991	MohammadAG: 2 am ;)	03:14
MohammadAG	3:15 here	03:15
MohammadAG	full path in .desktop file fixed it	03:16
merlin1991	MohammadAG: /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/icons works fine	03:16
merlin1991	(without full path)	03:16
SpeedEvil	1AM here, but I woke up 4 hours ago.	03:16
merlin1991	and that path is mentioned in the dev library	03:16
MohammadAG	woke up 24-4 hours ago	03:16
MohammadAG	yay for nonstandard location	03:16
merlin1991	MohammadAG: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Alternative_development_environments_Platform_SDK_user_guide_Packaging_your_application_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK.html#Adding_an_application_launcher_icon	03:17
MohammadAG	1.5s startup for sociality	03:17
merlin1991	gotta love this instruction:	03:17
merlin1991	Create an icon that meets the following criteria:	03:18
merlin1991	SVG format	03:18
merlin1991	80 x 80 pixels in size	03:18
MohammadAG	just need to add commenting to posts and profiles then we're ready for 0.1	03:18
MohammadAG	cannot compute	03:18
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MohammadAG	merlin1991, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1137854&postcount=5	03:18
DocScrutinizer	1324084751 here	03:19
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer: the size? :D	03:19
DocScrutinizer	%s	03:19
DocScrutinizer	date +%s	03:19
MohammadAG	merlin1991, http://i41.tinypic.com/mcfyp4.jpg	03:20
MohammadAG	integrates with Harmattan maps + drive	03:20
merlin1991	looks promising	03:21
MohammadAG	not sure why the checkin button is way off from center	03:21
DocScrutinizer	and I woke up at 1324015200	03:22
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, you're human right?	03:23
DocScrutinizer	according to my uptime I'm at least not digital technology of this civilization	03:24
DocScrutinizer	though some here seem to think I am	03:25
merlin1991	true, that would be shorter ;)	03:25
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DocScrutinizer	but then who can be certain about when the storage image got installed?	03:26
* MohammadAG slaps DocScrutinizer		03:26
DocScrutinizer	might not even be built by the time it claims it was	03:26
MohammadAG	talk human	03:26
MohammadAG	use UTC	03:26
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ok	03:28
DocScrutinizer	= = . . . . . = . . = . . . = . . = . . . . = . = . . . . . . . = . . . . = . =	03:28
* MohammadAG shoots self		03:28
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javispedro	"The Year of Linux Disappointments" -- http://lwn.net/Articles/472135/	03:30
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pawky	Me happy guy, me got N9 that actually works.... :-D	04:02
SpeedEvil	:)	04:03
pawky	:-)	04:03
pawky	well.. next step would be to get rid of the anoying limitations in the standard firmware... but thats step 2..... :-)	04:04
merlin1991	gst-launch is in gstreamer0.10-tools right?	04:17
merlin1991	I can't install it on my n9 (dev mode enabled) but apt claims some other package is referencing gstreamer0.10-tools which it can't find	04:17
merlin1991	where did gst-launch go? :/	04:21
merlin1991	anybody with n9 and dev mode enabled plase pastebin me the content of /etc/apt/sources.list.d/	04:30
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merlin1991	I fixed it by adding 'deb http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ harmattan/sdk free non-free' into another .list file there :/	04:46
javispedro	remove it as soon as possible	05:28
javispedro	gnite	05:28
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TSCHAKeee	what causes this? Aegis rejecting /home/developer/qorbiter-src_0.0.1_armel.deb: opt/qOrbiter/bin/qOrbiter not installed by the package	08:28
TSCHAKeee	aegis aborting dpkg -- all listed package files rejected	08:28
TSCHAKeee	Deployment failed.	08:28
TSCHAKeee	Error while building project qOrbiter_src (target: Harmattan)	08:28
TSCHAKeee	When executing build step 'Deploy Debian package via SFTP upload'	08:28
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villager	TSCHAKeee: just guessing, but perhaps the Aegis manifest contains that file but the .deb doesn't	09:57
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jonni	yep, I've gotten simular kind of errors, where .deb is missing some files that is mentioned in aegis file.	10:25
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gri	ohoh, when installing my application via ovi store it does kill the ovi store client and hangs up the phone for ~30 seconds o_O	10:53
gri	hope this just happened for me	10:54
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MohammadAG	morning	11:45
SpeedEvil	Morning.	11:46
SpeedEvil	Did your n950 actually arrive - I don't think I caught the end of that drama.	11:46
l32606	morning. although it is time for my dinner now. :-)	11:48
SpeedEvil	It's technically morning here, though I got up 6 hours ago.	11:48
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l32606	N950 is too rare, luckily I can use N9 as my developer device...	12:01
Venemo_N950	the N950 is an elegant beauty!	12:02
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ieatlint	i sold my n950 for booze	12:03
ieatlint	got two cases of beer for it	12:03
ieatlint	was a good night	12:03
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, yep, third one, second one is stuck in customs	12:10
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=80884	12:10
SpeedEvil	haha.	12:12
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alterego	2nd N9 arrives today :)	12:14
alterego	I can see the DHL tracking info :D	12:14
alterego	teeheehee	12:14
ieatlint	bought another n9?	12:15
alterego	Neah, Gift	12:15
alterego	Freebie	12:15
ieatlint	lucky then	12:15
* RST38h moos		12:15
ieatlint	i'm really tempted to buy one of the 64gb ones	12:15
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alterego	I bought a 64G black one	12:15
RST38h	altrego: fought down the desire to buy a pink one? =)	12:16
alterego	Worth every penny, expensive, but worth it. It's a beautiful device.	12:16
alterego	RST38h: I want a pink one :(	12:16
ieatlint	yeah, i've got two 16gbs right now	12:16
RST38h	Here they are sold side by side - real and fake N9s	12:16
ieatlint	i had a pink one for a while	12:16
RST38h	The fake ones are cheaper	12:16
ieatlint	it's pretty god damn pink	12:16
alterego	Heh	12:16
* RST38h prefers black, n950-black		12:16
alterego	(I actually have 2 N9s)	12:16
alterego	But one is a white proto for work.	12:17
ieatlint	RST38h: fake ones here are about $80 cheaper	12:17
RST38h	Although N9s have actually got a damn good display	12:17
alterego	So it's not mine.	12:17
RST38h	ieatlint: same here	12:17
ieatlint	alterego: same here... a blue 16gb that's mine, a white proto 16gb for work	12:17
RST38h	but something like $150-$200	12:17
ieatlint	and i'm really tempted to buy a black 64gb one	12:17
RST38h	ieatlint: don't see why not: it will get you through the next 2 years, probably	12:18
RST38h	so, does not seem like such a waste of money	12:18
alterego	ieatlint: my personal one is black 64 like I said, it seriously is sleek :)	12:18
ieatlint	it's truly depressing... with the n900, i was happy, but everyone else looked at me like i was crazy and i really did understand why	12:18
alterego	I don't know what colour this one will be, hoping it'll be blue :)	12:18
ieatlint	with my n9... people look with envy, both at the hardware and software	12:18
RST38h	people look at n900 with envy	12:19
RST38h	even now	12:19
ieatlint	and it's a dead end platform :(	12:19
RST38h	especially after seeing what it can do	12:19
ieatlint	alterego: is it from quim by chance?	12:19
alterego	ieatlint: the black one?	12:19
RST38h	Will be another year or two or three before a worthy Maemo competitor comes up =(	12:20
alterego	I bought my N9 ..	12:20
ieatlint	RST38h: i'm surrounded by people normally playing with arduinos who look at the n900 with a definite "meh"	12:20
ieatlint	alterego: the one you're getting	12:20
alterego	ieatlint: no, it's a Developer Champion welcome gift	12:20
ieatlint	but your response basically tells me no	12:20
RST38h	ieatlint: And what can they do with their arduino? Make a MIDI-connected dildo?	12:20
ieatlint	RST38h: spend $20, that's what	12:20
alterego	RST38h: there's the arduio drones	12:20
alterego	They look cool :)	12:21
RST38h	ieatlint: to me, it is $20 wasted; I am not buying a proto board unless I have a clear use for it	12:21
RST38h	s/a/another/	12:21
infobot	RST38h meant: ieanothertlint: to me, it is $20 wasted; I am not buying a proto board unless I have a clear use for it	12:21
ieatlint	i've a friend who hooked up two arduinos to run a ~1.2m x .7m LED display with the game of life	12:22
ieatlint	haha	12:22
alterego	Heh	12:22
MohammadAG	sadly the reason the N900 is popular here is because it has a keyboard and doesn't suck like the N97	12:22
alterego	I never liked the N97	12:22
RST38h	ieatlit: does not count unless it is illumination for the whole building, MIT-style	12:22
ieatlint	that the tetris on a building one?	12:23
RST38h	N97 keyboard had cyrillic "B" missing. Fail.	12:23
RST38h	(yes it is pretty much as if it missed roman "B" in English)	12:23
ieatlint	well, plenty of geek looked with envy at the n900	12:24
ieatlint	but only after they saw it up close	12:24
MohammadAG	I liked the design	12:24
MohammadAG	And the OS	12:24
ieatlint	with the n9... i have random people asking about it	12:24
ieatlint	i liked it back before the new iphone was released	12:24
ieatlint	i was able to tell people it was a prototype iphone	12:25
ieatlint	was pretty funny	12:25
MohammadAG	So what?	12:25
MohammadAG	iPhone 5	12:25
RST38h	iPhone 666, the Apocalypse Edition	12:25
* RST38h notes that the potential for religion-based anti-Apple campaign is greatly underestimated		12:26
RST38h	"What phone would Satan use?" etc	12:26
ieatlint	if you believe hard enough in apple, it'll even cure cancer	12:26
RST38h	ieatlint: you mean, Jobs did not?	12:27
ieatlint	i think the evidence speaks for itself	12:28
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Creteil	Hi all, can someone drive me step by step how I can add a site in the list of the last visited of web app on N9 ?	12:33
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ZogG_laptop	gri: morning =)	12:42
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: ping	12:43
Aranel	Creteil: you mean the start-up window on browser, don't you?	12:45
Creteil	Aranel, yes	12:46
MohammadAG	pong	12:46
Aranel	Creteil: here's the last step for it: http://my-meego.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=765&faq=9 , get it from Store and use it to your hearts content.	12:46
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: have you played with mce.ini and leds? i couldn't make them work, though t did work for few people	12:47
Creteil	Aranel, but I have 2 new links added and I don't know how they come here ?	12:47
MohammadAG	...	12:47
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, what exactly are you trying to do?	12:47
Aranel	Creteil: It adds them automagically, don't know based on which criteria.	12:47
MohammadAG	you need mce::LEDControl for the LEDs, and you can't get that	12:47
Creteil	:-(	12:47
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: there are patterns of led behaivour on n9/50	12:47
Creteil	Aranel, ok ..	12:48
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, you seem to have ignored all my explanation yesterday about how we know that	12:48
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: you don't need it, just go to /etc/mce/mce.ini and find part for n950 (680) and change the settings	12:48
MohammadAG	NEED WHAT?	12:48
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: i probably did	12:48
MohammadAG	you can't activate the DBus pattern without that aegis credential	12:49
MohammadAG	see https://gitorious.org/harmattan-m6-utils/led-event-notifier/blobs/master/ledinterface.cpp	12:49
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: but jonni did and it worked as well as i checked with damagedspline and we succeeded to turn on led while charging with screen on ( while it worked only with screen off)	12:50
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, you're missing the point	12:50
MohammadAG	bme activates that	12:51
MohammadAG	no other apps activates the LED	12:51
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: so?	12:51
MohammadAG	so it's only for charging	12:51
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: there is communication builtin pattern in mce as well	12:51
MohammadAG	sigh...	12:51
MohammadAG	and what will activate that?	12:51
MohammadAG	nothing	12:51
ZogG_laptop	we are talking about different things man	12:51
MohammadAG	no, we're not	12:52
MohammadAG	you're talking about how the N950 has patterns for events	12:52
ZogG_laptop	yes	12:52
MohammadAG	and how it should blink if we "modify the file"	12:52
ZogG_laptop	yes	12:52
MohammadAG	which is stupid	12:52
ZogG_laptop	why?	12:52
MohammadAG	the patterns are there, we knew that before the N950 was even announced	12:52
ZogG_laptop	ok	12:52
MohammadAG	but no apps activate the pattern	12:52
ZogG_laptop	oh	12:53
MohammadAG	which is why I made https://gitorious.org/harmattan-m6-utils/led-event-notifier/trees/master	12:53
ZogG_laptop	jonni: ^	12:53
MohammadAG	and it doesn't work due to aegis mce::LEDControl	12:53
* Aranel think no Zen Bound for N9 is sad. Can't we run Maemo games in a seperate environment like preenv?		12:54
ZogG_laptop	Aranel: you can try to build it on n9	12:59
Aranel	ZogG_laptop: how come? it's closed.	12:59
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ZogG_laptop	i mean install	13:01
macmaN	MohammadAG: got n950z yet?	13:03
MohammadAG	yeah	13:04
MohammadAG	well, third one, not the second	13:04
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: i'm trying to upload image with qnetwork	13:05
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: mind for little help?	13:05
MohammadAG	sure	13:06
ZogG_laptop	i used your example and changed it fo my needs but the image upload is not working	13:06
ZogG_laptop	lemme show you code, wait a sec	13:07
ZogG_laptop	postData.append("key=MY_KEY&");	13:09
ZogG_laptop	postData.append("image=\"/home/user/MyDocs/test.png\"");	13:09
ZogG_laptop	tried to do postData += file.readAll() as well but everytime i get file corrupt	13:10
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: ?	13:12
ZogG_laptop	with curl i just used to set key as key and image as filepath	13:12
MohammadAG	you sure you used filepath not @filepath with curl?	13:14
MohammadAG	also, you're feeding the filepath to the server as the image	13:14
MohammadAG	you need to do	13:14
MohammadAG	postData.append("key=YOUR_KEY&);	13:15
MohammadAG	postData.append("image=")	13:15
MohammadAG	postData.append(file.readAll());	13:15
ZogG_laptop	playing with it now	13:22
ZogG_laptop	do not work	13:25
ZogG_laptop	should file be file://path or /path/ ?	13:25
gri	AAAAAAHHH	13:26
macmaN	MohammadAG: great, i can start with the OMP chant then :>	13:26
gri	ovi store signing has rendered my application unusable	13:26
gri	now I have to find out how to unpublish it as fast as possitble :(	13:26
ZogG_laptop	why do you want to unpublish it?	13:26
gri	since it can not be used	13:27
gri	I used the AID to store credentials	13:27
gri	but the ovi store signing has changed the AID	13:27
gri	so my application can't read it's own data	13:27
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, you'll need to pass the actual data, not the filename	13:27
MohammadAG	why the AID?	13:27
ZogG_laptop	i'm trying to	13:28
MohammadAG	QApplication::setApplicationName() and QSettings() work fine	13:28
gri	I did not want to introduce a new token	13:28
ZogG_laptop	QFile img_file(file);	13:29
ZogG_laptop	postData.append("image=");	13:29
ZogG_laptop	postData.append( img_file.readAll());	13:29
gri	MohammadAG: I mean account data saved by libsignon-qt	13:29
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ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: what am i doing wrong?	13:29
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, where are the API docs?	13:31
MohammadAG	did you see how my example appended headers and stuff?	13:31
MohammadAG	you'll need to do that if you're not doing it	13:31
ZogG_laptop	why do i need use headers?	13:31
tomma	to tell size of file	13:31
ZogG_laptop	hmm	13:31
tomma	and give pointer to QFile in qnam::post()	13:32
MohammadAG	are you opening the file?	13:32
MohammadAG	img_file.open(QIODevice::ReadOnly)	13:32
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ZogG_laptop	no i didn't	13:34
MohammadAG	well that's problem no. 1	13:34
MohammadAG	second is not using headers	13:34
MohammadAG	read my example agin	13:34
MohammadAG	alterego, I want to override closeEvent(), but I'm getting the MApplicationWindow from the cache in the system, is there a way to install an event filter	13:36
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: all i needed to open file, it does work now	13:38
ZogG_laptop	thanks	13:38
MohammadAG	don't forget to close the file after reading it	13:39
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, ^	13:39
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: k, but the problem is uploaded file is corrupted	13:39
ZogG_laptop	it's uploaded in terrible quality	13:40
MohammadAG	use headers	13:41
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ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: ok trying to use headers as in your exapmle, it says i do not send api key =\	13:49
ZogG_laptop	datas += "Content-Disposition: form-data; key=MY_KEY; image=\"" + info.baseName() + "\"\r\n";	13:49
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Venemo_N950	hey!	13:54
gri	someone here with an ovi account who can comment on my application? ovi store does not allow me to edit my comment or write another one	13:55
Venemo_N950	I'm about to meet djszapi in person :)	13:55
gri	I want to warn people to not download my content ..	13:55
gri	Venemo_N950: heard that just from him :)	13:55
Venemo_N950	who wants me to say hi for him? :)	13:55
Venemo_N950	gri :)	13:55
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ZogG_laptop	Venemo_N950: me	13:59
ZogG_laptop	gri didn't get what's wrong with app	13:59
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gri	ZogG_laptop: The application uses libsignon-qt to securely store account data. The access to the account data is hardcoded to my AID (aegis application id). Unfortunately this ID changed due to ovi store signing and my application therefore can't save or read it's own account data. This means it is absolutely not usable	14:01
gri	the QA team seems to have tested with the unsigned package, so they did not encounter this error	14:03
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mck182	hey guys, I'm writing my first app for n9 and I can't deploy it from QtCreator :/ fails at packaging -- http://paste.kde.org/174860/ -- how can I solve this?	14:08
mck182	it's a subprojects project with qml ui and a library	14:08
gri	mck182: Did you modify the "rules" file with QtCreator?	14:08
mck182	gri: yes...but only after I got this error	14:08
mck182	didn't help	14:09
gri	QtCreator replaces tabs with spaces	14:09
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, headers are dependent on your service	14:09
mck182	oh yeah	14:09
gri	but the rules file needs tabs	14:09
mck182	gri: it fails if there are spaces	14:09
MohammadAG	you still send what you send the same way	14:09
MohammadAG	but add headers to the request	14:09
mck182	gri: saying "you wanted to use tabs instead of spaces"	14:09
gri	mck182: Ah ok, then I have no idea	14:10
gri	best thing is to never touch the rules file created by QtCreator :)	14:10
mck182	well I didn't even know about them before that error ;)	14:10
gri	mck182: If you don't mind, you can just close QtCreator and delete that qtc_packaging directory	14:11
gri	it will create it again when opening the project	14:11
mck182	gri: sure, let me try	14:11
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: how do i figure out which one i need?	14:11
MohammadAG	read the api	14:11
mck182	gri: ok, got a "can't find lib" error now	14:13
gri	which lib?	14:13
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: nithing there i could find	14:13
ZogG_laptop	http://api.imgur.com/resources_anon#upload	14:13
mck182	http://paste.kde.org/174866/	14:13
mck182	gri: my own	14:13
mck182	that's part of the project	14:13
MohammadAG	did you set type?	14:14
gri	mck182: It already tells you what the problem is :)	14:14
gri	mck182: either change the RPATH of your lib or deploy it to /usr/lib	14:15
mck182	gri: yeah, way better now	14:15
mck182	gri: how can I change the rpath?	14:15
MohammadAG	are you doing an outside app or something integrated in gallery?	14:15
gri	mck182: Do you deploy the app and the lib into the same directory?	14:16
mck182	gri: I /think/ so	14:16
gri	mck182: does the .pro of your lib have INSTALLS key?	14:16
* mck182 checks		14:16
mck182	gri: ooh! yes, it is there	14:17
gri	where does it point to?	14:17
mck182	gri: there's an if maemo5 { target.path = /opt/usr/lib } else { target.path = /usr/lib } INSTALLS +=target	14:18
gri	hmm	14:19
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: my own app i just trying to use qnetwork instead of curl	14:19
gri	I think it would be much easier if you'd build the lib as a single package and install that to your device and development environment	14:19
gri	even though that does not work for ovi publishing but for testing	14:19
mck182	I see	14:20
mck182	althoug I'd love to get it to Ovi eventually ;)	14:20
gri	sure but I don't have any more time yet to try to help you :)	14:20
gri	I'm already late and have to leave ..	14:20
mck182	gri: thanks a million anyway!	14:21
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ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: i succeed to do it using some example from internet but still don't get why that one worked	14:28
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: can i query you?	14:40
ZogG_laptop	may i?	14:40
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BluesLee	~aegis-no-thanks	15:14
infobot	i heard aegis-no-thanks is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/	15:14
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MohammadAG	does the concept of stacked widgets exist in MTF or will I have to show/hide?	15:38
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ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: busy?	15:48
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MohammadAG	nop	15:52
ZogG_laptop	you are from ipone on irc?	15:55
ZogG_laptop	is it cimfy/	15:57
ZogG_laptop	comfy?	15:57
SpeedEvil	I've used IRC from my n900, when my computer was down.	15:59
SpeedEvil	Worked OK.	15:59
SpeedEvil	Got up to 35wpm	15:59
SpeedEvil	That was however with hwkbd	15:59
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ZogG_laptop	thats my point	16:01
ZogG_laptop	i use it on n9 sometimes but it's not the best way	16:02
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Lilltiger	Do anyone know how to fix the suttering sound issue on N9 when using skype calls?	16:08
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drclaw-123	hello	16:13
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drclaw-123	I am going straight ahead with my question:	16:14
ZogG_laptop	?	16:14
drclaw-123	I want to install the final package of my PR1.1 install .. mp-harmattan-340-pr	16:15
ZogG_laptop	Lilltiger: quality? than it's connection problem	16:15
drclaw-123	via apt-get	16:15
drclaw-123	however, apt-get install mp-harmattan-340-pr .. fails because aegis prohibits installation of libarchive1-2.8.0-4	16:15
drclaw-123	saying: libarchive1-2.8.3 is installed from com.nokia.maemo .. and it is trusted, yet 2.8.0-4 (also from that location) is not trusted	16:16
drclaw-123	how can I force aegis to accept installation of that single deb file?	16:17
ZogG_laptop	are you rtying to update?	16:17
drclaw-123	the phone is essentially updated .. except for this single package mp-harmattan-340-pr	16:18
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drclaw-123	the device says it is pr1.1 .. but the update message is still on the home screen.	16:18
drclaw-123	and it is big and annoying	16:18
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ZogG_laptop	just reflash than or use nsu	16:20
drclaw-123	but .. reflash will kill my apps, right?	16:20
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ZogG_laptop	yes	16:22
drclaw-123	:\|	16:22
ZogG_laptop	._.	16:22
drclaw-123	so there is no way to make aegis believe that the 2.8.0-4 deb file is trusted after all ?	16:23
ZogG_laptop	you can download it	16:25
ZogG_laptop	and dpkg -i	16:25
ZogG_laptop	but u need dev mode	16:25
Lilltiger	ZogG_laptop, it seemd to be, althought i had full bars on the connection and was 30cm from the router.. had to put it on 5GHz N-mode only for it to work :(	16:26
ZogG_laptop	Lilltiger: it can be prob on otherside as well	16:28
ZogG_laptop	and internet on router	16:28
Lilltiger	wrks perfect from the pc	16:28
vihta	drclaw-123: dunno this specific case , sometimes export AEGIS_FIXED_ORIGIN=com.nokia.maemo helps to those aegis problems,	16:30
xmlich02	hi, I have basically hello world project with xmllistmodel and there is an error which I cannot find. It crashes only on n9 device, but it it working in simulator http://pcmlich.fit.vutbr.cz/tmp/untitled1.tar.gz	16:30
xmlich02	http://pastebin.com/bVLYpF66 (the same code)	16:30
ZogG_laptop	xmlich02: what is the error?	16:32
xmlich02	segmentation fault	16:32
drclaw-123	vihta: it now says only allowed in open mode	16:33
MohammadAG	<drclaw-123> and it is big and annoying	16:34
MohammadAG	I agree	16:34
MohammadAG	I want to stay on beta2 but hate that message	16:34
ZogG_laptop	i never got ota so i don't know how it looks like	16:36
MohammadAG	like this	16:37
MohammadAG	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1137854&postcount=5	16:37
MohammadAG	annoying as fuck	16:37
MohammadAG	need some graphics editors' help	16:37
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: wazd?	16:38
xmlich02	i have found, that the crash is caused by content of xml file	16:44
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drclaw-123	how exactly does aegis know what the source is?	16:45
SpeedEvil	The signature	16:47
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mpr	how do I access qml properties from c++ if the qml stuff is created by QmlApplicationViewer? the binding docs assume that you're creating a QDeclarativeEngine and QDeclarativeComponent directly in your code..	16:49
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Lilltiger	Is there any app/settings that can make my N9 to work as an audiodevice for my PC?	16:51
Lilltiger	over bluetooth that is	16:52
mpr	ah, I can just treat the viewer as the component and just do viewer->setProperty() etc?	16:53
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mpr	..or not	16:59
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jonni	mpr: depends what you want to do, you can do for example viewer.rootContext()->setContextProperty("multitouch", &touch); etc	17:15
jonni	mpr: or stackoverflow.com/questions/5709820/communication-between-c-and-qml	17:18
mpr	it's not very encouraging that the asker says that the top answer's suggestion didn't work for him :)	17:20
mpr	but ok, so I can get the QDeclarativeContext through viewer.rootContext(), now I have to just figure out how to traverse the qml hierarchy through that to get to a specific property	17:23
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villager	grr... is it supposed to be possible to see Qt Quick components for Harmattan in the Qt Creator's Designer?	17:38
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mpr	maybe it's supposed but didn't work for me, I'm just writing the qml like css or something and then executing to see the results :)	17:41
villager	okay, then it's not just me at least	17:43
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tarantism	Hi all, I've got a thin white border around my app that's driving me nuts. Looks like one pixel top and left and two pixels right and bottom. It looks like a deliberate border. Anyone know how to get rid?	18:15
tarantism	I'm using a QMainWindow. Qt::FramelessWindowHint doesn't help.	18:17
javispedro	is your app NOT running fullscreen?	18:22
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mpr	btw how do you disable the black rounded corners?	18:30
TSCHAKeee	how can I tell the fake and the real N9's?	18:30
mpr	they don't fit very well to the environment when you're compiling for the desktop :)	18:30
tarantism	javispedro: thx. Just found it. QGraphicsView inherits QFrame and defaults to having a bloody frame. Who thought that was a good idea?	18:31
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: hi!	18:32
javispedro	hi Doc	18:32
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mpr	jonni: seems that that viewer->rootContext() also gives a wrong rootcontext, you have to edit the applicationviewer class to get the right one: http://meegoharmattandev.blogspot.com/2011/11/qmlapplicationviewer-and.html	18:52
mpr	now it works, and yeah using those context properties is probably wiser than tying c++ code to a specific qml structure (if that would even be possible?)	19:00
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mpr	well I guess it would be possible through rootObject()	19:18
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Aranel	<qml question>How can I call sheet.open() from SomethingElse.qml? </qml question>	19:21
Aranel	I mean, I want to use it's sheet element on another, not identical qml file.	19:22
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ZogG_laptop	mgedmin: ping	23:28
mgedmin	ZogG_laptop, hi	23:30
ZogG_laptop	sup	23:30
ZogG_laptop	http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2336306/imgrup_0.0.3_armel.deb	23:32
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* mgedmin in the middle of something, will take a look soon-ish		23:35
ZogG_laptop	ok	23:36
ZogG_laptop	if i'm not answering i'm not here nymore	23:36
bemasc	Do I have to do anything to make my App have access to the camera?	23:40
bemasc	(maybe a setting somewhere in Qt Creator?)	23:41
ajalkane	bemasc: aegis credentials	23:41
ajalkane	aegis.manifest	23:42
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ajalkane	http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_Security_guide_Harmattan_APIs_that_require_credentials.html	23:43
bemasc	ajalkane: thanks! I'm not using any of those APIs though, AFAICT. I'm just trying to open /dev/video0.	23:44
bemasc	also, I don't have an aegis.manifest file (I guess it's not part of the Qt Creator project template)	23:44
bemasc	how do I add one?	23:44
ajalkane	bemasc: aegis is pretty comprehensive in it's quest to protect the developer from the device ;)	23:44
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ajalkane	bemasc: start here http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_Security_guide.html	23:45
bemasc	that page says "In most applications, the SDK creates the Aegis manifest file automatically.", but maybe because I'm not using those APIs that logic doesn't trigger	23:45
ajalkane	Yeah if you access the dev directly, naturally not	23:45
ajalkane	There's this aegis.manifest file that you can create. See the docs, it has some examples to get you started.	23:46
bemasc	found it. "Creating the Aegis manifest file manually with Qt SDK"	23:46
gri	Don't use a hardcoded aegis AID in your program I found out today :P	23:47
bemasc	looks like my manifest.aegis is currently totally empty (0 bytes)	23:48
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ajalkane	It usually is	23:50
bemasc	What's the deal with <for path="..."/>? Does everything get installed to /usr/bin?	23:52
* bemasc looks for /usr/bin/angrybirds ... nope		23:53
ajalkane	bemasc: no, that's just the path to the executable these credentials are applied to	23:53
bemasc	I'm pretty sure I want the credential GRP::video applied to my App, wherever it's installed.	23:53
ajalkane	yeah, but you must know where it's being installed :)	23:54
bemasc	oh ... Apps are really installed in absolute paths, like Debian!	23:54
bemasc	wow	23:54
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bemasc	ok, looks like the answer is "/opt"	23:57

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