IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2011-12-10

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gabriel9i love this song: "Put the right thing to the right place, do it alot"00:05
vsync_let me get this straight, is that song pro- or anti-buttsex?00:07
VenemoRichlv, I don't think so.00:08
gabriel9no, the meaning is that you always do something good and do it alot00:08
gabriel9all thint that song is about sex00:09
GeneralAntillesReboot didn't help. :(00:10
GeneralAntillesWhat the hell sort of messed up bug is this. . . .00:10
RichlvDocScrutinizer, you said : <DocScrutinizer> and I appreciate all the reasonable effort from inside $Nokia to compensate the damage done   - is there something specific you had in mind, or maybe some coverage on that i could read about it ?00:12
DocScrutinizerRichlv: I just see Nokia e.g. changed NOLO to a version that allows loading of open mode kernel00:18
DocScrutinizerand there's been considerable effort inside nokia to bring proper openmode to devels00:19
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RichlvDocScrutinizer, thanks for the response. do you see that effort as limited to specific device or as a bit more of a wider approach ?00:22
DocScrutinizerwell, it's an effort of the former maemo now meego team I'd say00:25
DocScrutinizeror parts thereof00:25
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VenemoI'd say that with their last breath, they want to ensure that the new device(s) can be as "open ended" as the N8x0 and the N900 was.00:27
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b3llwhen using a QML Audio Element, does one need to do anything other than set the source to access its metadata?00:31
Venemohaven't a clue00:35
GeneralAntillesGrrr00:37
DocScrutinizerto those interested, there is new stuff on that wicked server ;-D00:37
GeneralAntillesNow it's just spamming all of the previous text messages from the last three people.00:37
* GeneralAntilles stabs things00:37
DocScrutinizera howto.txt and a .deb00:37
b3llthanks Venemo, doesn't look like anyone knows, I may have to resort to some sort of c++ proxy or something, since harmattan doesn't use the md5(title)-md5(artist).jpg for cover art, right?00:38
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: you might consider http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/ for next MWKN00:43
GeneralAntilles5 copies of every damn text message00:46
GeneralAntillesWhat00:47
GeneralAntillesThe00:47
GeneralAntillesFuck00:47
DocScrutinizerLOL00:49
yipdwGeneralAntilles: how do you replicate that behavior; I've never seen it happen on the N9 I've got00:50
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DocScrutinizer~aegis-no-thanks is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/00:52
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer00:52
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*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "A place for harmattan device and development discussions | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member | Please stay on topic and no NDA stuff here | Developers : http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | ~aegis-no-thanks"00:52
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DocScrutinizer~aegis? is <reply>see aegis-no-thanks00:54
infobot...but aegis is already something else...00:54
DocScrutinizerthought as much00:54
DocScrutinizer~no-aegis is <reply>see aegis-no-thanks00:54
infobotDocScrutinizer: okay00:54
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Venemob3ll, I have no cluse01:01
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Venemob3ll, I have no clue01:11
gabriel9_guys where didi you learn to code qml qt01:14
leinirthe interwebs! ;)01:15
leinirMore seriously, the tutorial videos and code samples on qt.nokia.com and devnet :)01:16
M4rtinKgabriel9_: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qml-tutorial.html http://developer.qt.nokia.com/wiki/PySideDocumentation/#5be5dacb948a23c02e25c37df1efd5c2 http://wiki.meego.com/QML_tutorials01:16
M4rtinKthere is also THPs tutorial: http://thpmaemo.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-tutorial-pysideqml-on-meego.html01:17
M4rtinKsome more links: http://wiki.meego.com/HarmattanQMLPythonOBSResourceList#QML01:18
GeneralAntillesyipdw, hell if I know01:18
GeneralAntillesJust started happening.01:18
M4rtinKalso, there is the source for the components gallery: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components/trees/master/examples/meego/QmlComponentGallery/qml01:19
gabriel9_nice01:19
gabriel9_thanks01:19
gabriel9_my boss is gone kill me becouse i don't rest :D01:20
M4rtinKyour boss or the lack of rest - you are doomed :)01:21
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gabriel9_either way i'm dead01:21
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gabriel9_anyone know size of toolbar?01:22
gabriel9_height01:22
DocScrutinizerhttp://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/__THIS_IS_MEANT_FOR_N9   http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/mini_howto_open_securemode.txt01:23
DocScrutinizerand I promise I won't bitch against aegis anymore - well, unless I'm in an extraordinary grumpy mood ;-D01:24
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gabriel9_is there any way to manipulate files with Qt quick? like create file, write and save/close?01:36
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Sazpaimonif I hear whatsapp one more time, im going to start slapping people01:42
* DocScrutinizer slaps Sazpaimon a bit01:43
Richlvhmm-wtf. why would n9 refuse to download ovi store apps while connected to a computer...01:43
DocScrutinizerhmmm, because MyDocs unmounted maybe?01:44
* artemma is looking at qvernote project. Last commit in february, doesn't compile with Qt SDK.. hmm01:44
Sazpaimonwait wait01:44
Sazpaimonofficial openmode kernel now?01:45
Richlvunmounted in phone becaue mounted to usb host, or - ?01:45
SazpaimonSDK_Sources_PR1.1.ISO what is this, the DVD image that nokia sends for GPL requests?01:45
artemmagabriel9_: Not with Qt quick itself (runs in a sandbox). Something you can do via QtMobility, other stuff can be exposed to QML from C++01:45
DocScrutinizerthat's actually a very fine trick to store sth to MyDocs *on device* while device is linked to PC in mass storage mode. It simply will vanish and get thoroughly hidden as long as device is NOT in mass storage mode again01:46
artemmavia Qt mobility bindings I mean01:46
gabriel9_i was thinking that would be easy :)01:46
Sazpaimonok i looked at the #harmattan log from when this was posted01:47
Sazpaimonlooks like that ISO is true PR1.101:47
Sazpaimongreat stuff01:47
artemmagabriel9_: why would you need to manage exactly files? For more usual mobile use (contacts, photos, etc) there's QtMobility bindings01:47
artemmawith all my love to JS I am not sure if I'd like Qt Quick to be able to open/close/wirte-bytes to files01:48
DocScrutinizerSazpaimon: well, the stuff that results from it is even greater01:48
DocScrutinizeropensh :-D \o/01:49
Sazpaimonwhere is opensh from anyway01:49
DocScrutinizerfinally ROOT on your own device01:49
Sazpaimonis it part of the PR1.1 sources?01:49
DocScrutinizernope01:49
Sazpaimonwho's baby is that01:49
DocScrutinizernot really01:49
DocScrutinizerit's probably a clone of develsh, but with *slightly* longer list of tokens requested in aegis-manifest01:50
Sazpaimonand opensh can execute arbitrary binaries?01:50
Sazpaimonwithout a hacked kernel?01:50
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DocScrutinizershould01:50
gabriel9_well i need to create some text files and save them01:50
Sazpaimonwell the hacked kernel seems required to load it01:51
gabriel9_and also you could change them01:51
DocScrutinizerSazpaimon: no, to install it01:51
b3llFor future reference, cover art for music is stored at /home/user/.cache/media-art/01:51
artemmagabriel9_: I am afraid you need to do it from C++. Good news is that it's very easy to expose that to QML, so in C++ you can have just file system access01:52
gabriel9_i know some C++ and some guys from work are C++ gurus01:55
gabriel9_and as i recall there is nice api in qt for file manipulation01:56
* Richlv wants to hit whoever designed n9 "restore" feature :/01:56
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SazpaimonDocScrutinizer, I still dont undererstand how this is not a hackl02:06
Sazpaimonyou need to load a hacked kernel to install opensh02:07
DocScrutinizerthis kernel is not hacked02:07
DocScrutinizerit's a proper UNhacked kernel that is supported by Nokia's NOLO02:08
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SazpaimonzImage-2.6.32.39-dfl61-20113701 isnt hacked?02:08
Sazpaimonso enable-root-superuser.diff is there just for historical purposes?02:08
DocScrutinizermeh02:08
Sazpaimondid this kernel come from the SDK ISO then?02:09
DocScrutinizerI'd really love to discuss meanings of words with you all night long, but I actually have to leave now to get me a beer02:09
Sazpaimonallright thebn02:10
Sazpaimon*then02:10
DocScrutinizera kernel built from sources provided by Nokia is hardly a hack, even when some patches got applied - after all that'S what opensource is all about02:10
DocScrutinizerand Nokia themselves applied patches to linus kernel02:11
Sazpaimonyes, its less hacky then applying PR1.0's kernel to PR1.1 and changing the version number02:12
Sazpaimonbut semantics02:12
DocScrutinizerso nokia ships N9 with a custom kernel, and this open mode kernel at my server is just another custom kernel. Why is mine a hack and Nokia's sacrosanct?02:13
DocScrutinizernokia supports loading "my" kernel, they even needed to ship a fixed NOLO to allow that02:14
Sazpaimonbecause the patch says "aegis hack"02:14
Sazpaimon:P02:14
DocScrutinizerpfff02:14
Sazpaimonjust sayin02:16
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Richlvif i'd like to waste my time on reporting issues with n9 (including feature/improvement requests...), what would be the best place for that ?02:48
MekRichlv: https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/ I guess02:53
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RichlvMek, thanks, will take a look at it :)03:19
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djszapizz_gri: mmm, your account wrapper is a bit buggy09:18
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Richlvdamn. after reflashing & restoring a backup this phone has seemingly stuck in flight mode. wireless works ok and is enabled/disabled as i enter/exit flight mode, mobile connection does not work (and the airplane icon is always shown). if i go to "mobile network" with flight mode disabled, network selection is "automatic", but i can't change it10:53
Richlvnetwork mode is "dual" - i can change it to gsm, but when i return to that page it's "dual" again10:53
Richlvhas there been anybody else with similar issue ? unfortunately, i don't recall whether it was broken after reflash or whether backup restore did something. oh, n9, and simcard is inserted :)10:54
Richlvha. http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-10-20.log.html has something similar, but with n950...10:56
Richlvnope, seems to be different10:58
Richlvtried starting up w/o and with sim, no difference11:06
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fralshow did you flash your N9?11:39
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Richlvfrals, flasher 3.12.1 + PR1.1 image12:37
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fralsand what version did you have on your phone before you flashed it?12:37
frals(and where did you get this pr1.1 image?)12:38
Richlvi also had PR 1.1, but that one was updated with the built in updater12:38
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Richlvimage to flash was downloaded from http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com12:38
fralsand you didnt get any error when flashing? say, about cmt-* smth not being updated?12:39
fralsdue to trying to downgrade or something like that?12:40
_MeeGoBot_Hear ye, hear ye! dm8tbr, my master has decided that I shall henceforth look up bugs at harmattan-bugs.nokia.com and not bmc. (intended for #harmattan)12:42
dm8tbrbug 112:43
_MeeGoBot_Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1 nor, Normal, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO NOTREPRODUCIBLE, [cloned] calendar import via bluetooth from n900: reminders are in the future and uneditable12:43
Richlvfrals, before that i got flashing errors on rootfs, possibly because of a libusb bug. last flash was from a different system and was 100% successful on all components12:48
Richlvand no, it didn't complain about this being a downgrade12:48
Richlvas flashed version was the same as the one on the phone12:49
Richlvdidn't see anything interesting in dmesg either12:49
Richlvbug 12312:49
_MeeGoBot_Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots12:49
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hiemanshumy contacts are randomly mixing, and being assigned to different FB contacts13:08
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Richlvcontinuing on my "permanent flight mode", wifi works. if i start the phone up in actual flight mode and leave it that way, it doesn't ask for pin - i can "activate sim" later, then it asks for pin and happily accepts it13:36
Richlvooooh13:38
Richlvtrying to send an sms said "mobile network is switched off. turn it back on ?"13:39
Richlvi tapped yes, of course - and flight mode icon disappeared :)13:39
Richlvfhew. won't have to reflash again :)13:39
Richlvand all "mobile network" controls work again13:40
Richlvand it looks like PR1.1 doesn't allow remote root login by default13:43
ZogG_laptopRichlv: it does for developer@13:49
ZogG_laptopfor root nogo13:49
ZogG_laptophmm i'm asked for twitter password now every 20 minute if nt less13:50
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RichlvZogG_laptop, yeah, it's a good thing anyway :)13:53
Richlvi guess 'developer' account has no password by default13:53
Richlvok, this is soooo sweet. i have ssh session to my phone and i'm root =)13:54
Richlvwondering how bash performs on it...13:54
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Richlvand pubkey auth works. YEAH13:59
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dm8tbrhttp://apina.biz/41221.jpg - that would look nice with an N9 :D14:42
Venemogood morning everyone :)14:43
ZogG_laptopmorning14:46
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DocScrutinizermoo15:09
dm8tbrmooo15:14
hiemanshumoooo15:16
* DocScrutinizer ponders to abandon /ignore and adopt a ruthless +q scheme instead15:17
DocScrutinizermeh, better not :-D15:18
* hiemanshu sets mode +q DocScrutinizer!*@*15:19
hiemanshu:D15:19
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Richlvdoh. i should verify permissions of directories i create before wondering why scp to /home/developer fails...15:19
DocScrutinizer/mode #harmattan +q *15:20
Richlvhrm. chown developer developer    / chown: developer: Operation not permitted15:20
Richlvwtf15:20
Richlvtrying that as root...15:20
DocScrutinizerhah15:20
DocScrutinizerroot is moot15:21
Richlvis it... dreaded a-thing ?15:21
DocScrutinizer~no-aegis15:21
infoboti heard aegis-no-thanks is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/15:21
DocScrutinizerbtw a few new bits there since 10min15:22
* Richlv wonders how safe that is, especially after my adventures at flasin =)15:22
Richlvflashing15:22
Richlvmaybe i should start sending angry letters to nokia for them to ignore15:22
DocScrutinizeryou're not flashing anything, you just load a openmode kernel to RAM once, to install a opensh pkg15:23
Richlvhmm. will add that to my list of things to try, thanks :)15:24
DocScrutinizerinstalling that opensh pkg can't be done in secure mode15:24
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DocScrutinizerthose of you trying to access  http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/nokia/*  please query me15:29
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DocScrutinizerthis is (was) a mirror of harmattan-dev.nokia.com with daily backups, but it's not very useful via http. if you tell me what you're interested in, I might help15:31
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naughty-hi guys16:12
naughty-how can i hide custom sms sounds from music player?16:15
djszapiVenemo: o/16:18
djszapiRichlv: you are notw allowed to do chown from unknown origin.16:20
djszapiand that is not "wtf", but quite expected.16:20
djszapiotherwise anybody could just get the "root" account and do whatever he wants with that operation.16:20
djszapiimho, chown should be completely forbidden, but it is only available for you from Ovi.16:29
ZogG_laptophmm what qml element would you advice for images gallery popup?16:30
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djszapiZogG_laptop: what would you precisely pop up ?16:31
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i just used that example of gallery images grid16:32
ZogG_laptopnow i want to make it part of program16:32
ZogG_laptopi used Sheet and it's on it16:32
djszapiand what is the difficulty ?16:32
ZogG_laptopi have grid 4x6 e.g so if i have only 3 pics on last row a see the part of prev page16:34
djszapiZogG_laptop: why not a separate page ?16:35
javispedroDocScrutinizer: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=36648&postcount=18516:37
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: :_D HI!!!16:37
javispedrohi :)16:37
DocScrutinizer~tell javispedro about no-aegis16:38
javispedroheh16:38
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faenilhey people :) o/16:38
Venemohi faenil16:39
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* djszapi is bloooooeeeing because of the must have cmake -> qmake change :/16:40
javispedrohello :)16:40
faeniljavispedro: getting 5h remaining battery at startup :D16:40
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i don't remember why i didn't do it16:41
javispedroheh16:41
javispedrowell, I was not happy with my n950 battery performance as of lately16:41
naughty-how can i hide sound files from music player?16:41
djszapiZogG_laptop: just put your sheet onto a new page16:41
faeniljavispedro: I'm talking about the 5820tg, :P16:41
javispedrofaenil: ah16:42
javispedrofun confusion either way :)16:42
faenil:D16:42
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: why i would use sheet than?16:42
djszapiZogG_laptop: I do not understand why sheet is needed but I am a low-level guy, not Ui after all16:43
djszapiZogG_laptop: but I guess you need to use it if you wanna have a separate page anyway16:43
djszapiZogG_laptop: since the gallery application is so simple, it does not this page concept that much.16:44
djszapiuse*16:44
djszapior maybe you can just set the blackground black.16:47
djszapiand put the images on those.16:48
djszapibut still you should not mix up different page contexts into one if possible.16:48
djszapicontents*16:48
MohammadAGdjszapi: Don't worry, we were also forced to start using aegis the same way you were forced to use qmake16:49
djszapinot really, you could use open mode16:50
djszapiand right now, it is even "official".16:50
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: hmm with theme.invert i got whole ap[p black16:50
djszapithere is no "cmake mode" for Qt516:51
MohammadAGYay16:51
ZogG_laptopthere is no make for future16:51
ZogG_laptopall apps would be opensource16:51
ZogG_laptopand you would need to upload theme and they'll compile parts on fly =)16:52
djszapishould have written into the comment at the Qt Certificate(s), I do not answer for crapmake questions :)16:53
merlin1991open mode on the n9 with 1.1? did I miss something?16:54
djszapiwell, the ideal way is not an open-mode kernel, but just a tool on top of the existing one16:56
djszapiand if any, that might come only along with PR 1.216:56
djszapiif there is PR 1.2 at all16:56
djszapiI cannot talk about it more, you will see guys :)16:57
* merlin1991 waits16:57
faenilahahaha16:59
faenildjszapi keeps teasing us :D16:59
DocScrutinizermerlin1991:16:59
DocScrutinizer~no-aegis16:59
infobotit has been said that aegis-no-thanks is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/16:59
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: that's for n950 though16:59
DocScrutinizerNO16:59
merlin1991then the url is missleading :D16:59
djszapimerlin1991: they share the kernel16:59
DocScrutinizerwell, it is16:59
djszapieven the development kernel is not the same source17:00
DocScrutinizerI'm just about to clean up a bit17:00
djszapiit is really just about tooling. I would personally prefer a tool putting into open mode, and not changing the kernel forth and back before and after pushing something to Ovi.17:00
djszapinow the same source*17:00
djszapibecause well ... that is just not comfy.17:01
merlin1991damn you doc I just browsed through the dir, and now you moved it :D17:04
djszapihttp://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/ -> it is actually not working17:05
djszapijavispedro: ping17:09
javispedropang!17:09
DocScrutinizerback to normal, just now it's a symlink ;-)17:09
DocScrutinizerhttp://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/17:09
djszapiyou got 1.0 sources ?17:09
DocScrutinizeris the original now17:09
djszapiohh it was pali17:09
javispedrodjszapi: no, I don't17:09
DocScrutinizer~literal aegis-no-thanks17:09
infobot"aegis-no-thanks" is "http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/"17:09
djszapianyway, if he can request a new one he will get the new sources17:09
djszapithey mentioned that it was sent because, at the time of request, they did not have PR1.1 sources17:09
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DocScrutinizerinfobot: no, aegis-no-thanks is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/17:10
infobotDocScrutinizer: okay17:10
DocScrutinizer~no-aegis17:10
infobotaegis-no-thanks is probably http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/17:10
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: found two solution and both are not good for me =)17:10
ZogG_laptopone if to make rectagle17:10
ZogG_laptopbut that i can't scroll17:10
ZogG_laptopmaybe i can turn it on but do now know how17:11
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djszapiZogG_laptop: just use a page, really.17:13
djszapiless then 10 characters plus, and done17:13
merlin1991so In case I go fuck aegis I just have the kernel loaded all the time?17:14
* Aranel wonders If anybody else's N950 / N9 screen doesn't timeout as intended and behaves always-on for unknown reason.17:15
djszapimerlin1991: yes, and before pushing to OVI flash the stock back. After the publishing story, you again flash the open-mode kernel. Quite a hassle.17:17
Araneldjszapi: filed #376 today ^^ hope they grant "devicelock" call or at least do something to allow this.17:18
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i do17:18
djszapiso basically double testing and everything17:18
ZogG_laptopback how i set background color for it17:18
djszapiAranel: right, but as I said, it is never gonna be changed ;)17:18
merlin1991djszapi: I was more interested in running crazy stuff for my own without pushing stuff to ovi :)17:19
djszapiZogG_laptop: color: "black";17:19
Araneldjszapi: and there's nothing to be done? :| would open mode help against this?17:19
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: page have no color value17:19
djszapimerlin1991: open kernel was already available as in told how to do17:19
djszapimerlin1991: it is just that, Nokia actually did it, but it is still not the nice way. Hopefully you do not need to get used to it, and a tool will provide this stuff17:20
djszapiAranel: no, open mode will not overwrite the Ovi workflow17:20
djszapiZogG_laptop: use theme.17:20
djszapior a content item filling in the page then with color: "black";17:20
djszapianchor filling and all that jazz17:20
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Araneldjszapi: oops, I think I don't understand exactly. I want to create a dead simple app/script/hack/shortcut to lock screen, I won't push it to Ovi (since they'll never allow it, maybe appsformeego later) why should I care about Ovi?17:22
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: used rectagle but how can i do it scrollable downn?17:22
djszapiAranel: AFM will never work even that much since they even have less credentials.17:22
trxZogG_laptop use Flickable17:23
djszapiAranel: unless AFM really takes the openmode kernel into account which is well ... I would not use an app from there then17:23
djszapiZogG_laptop: I do not understand your problem. What if just change the theme first ?17:23
djszapirectangle + flickable is just the second hack. Try to develop the nice way first17:23
Araneldjszapi: d'oh. Is there any "forget credentials and all those stuff, just do the work" mode? isn't this called open mode? :|17:23
djszapiAranel: you can do that locally for sure, if that is  your dream17:24
Araneldjszapi: asking for personal use ofc, I may think about AFM and Ovi later.17:24
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i don't want whole thing to be black17:24
Araneldjszapi: so If I understood it correct: I can do it for myself, I can't do it for others, I should push them de open mode too?17:24
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Aranelthem to*17:25
ZogG_laptopjust the background of certain page that has image grid, that is scrollable17:25
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: what happened to the mini-howto?17:26
djszapiAranel: yes17:26
djszapiZogG_laptop: yes, indeed, please follow my instructions17:26
DocScrutinizermoved to opensh17:26
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i did17:26
djszapiX-Fade ping, do you plan to support open mode kernels in AFM ?17:27
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: than or everything black, or i can't scroll down all pictures or else17:27
djszapithat is utterly strange because I have a list where the page has a theme, and the list item overrides the page background without no issues17:28
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djszapiwith no issues*17:28
Aranelwell then I'll do the magic for myself and document/share it for others, if most of the community migrates to open mode later, they'll be able to use it.17:28
djszapiAranel: that is really painy.17:28
djszapiI would propose an open-mode kernel apps store instead (with one dedicated open-mode kernel for sure).17:29
djszapisince we do not wanna do these things for many applications manually for everybody's handset.17:29
Aranelwell that'd be pretty much exceed my abilities but sounds good if somebody volunteers to handle it.17:30
Aranelby the way, is there any known important disadvantages of open mode?17:31
AranelIf an end-user moves to open mode would he suffer?17:31
Aranel(except the warranty and ovi music stuff)17:31
djszapihe would basically lose everything security relatecd17:31
djszapiso it means that welcome to the scam and malicious world.17:32
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Aranelis this the same as N900 or it's somehow more protected?17:32
djszapimore or less the same regarding the security: no security at all.17:33
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: can you show me the part of code?17:33
djszapiZogG_laptop: hold on a momment...17:33
javispedroAranel: currently explored, and suggest you try it for a few days and report on your experiences17:34
djszapiAranel: I am sort of having the imagination, people will abuse the open mode kernel even for Ovi app development when they do not need it.17:34
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: wait i may solved it17:34
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: could you add a md5sum for the unpatched kernel zimage too?17:35
javispedroAranel: for example, passwords are lost for accounts17:35
djszapiZogG_laptop: https://projects.kde.org/projects/playground/games/gluon/repository/revisions/master/show/player/harmattan17:35
Araneldjszapi: if -as you proposed- an open-mode store with an acceptable QA policy starts working, I think platform security wouldn't be that important.17:35
Araneljavispedro: can I? ^.^ I thought that we were waiting for newest kernel sources from Nokia?17:35
djszapiAranel: hahahahaha17:36
javispedro~tell Aranel about no-aegis17:36
djszapiAranel: that is the whole purpose of the security and Ovi.17:36
javispedroAranel: fresh from days ago17:36
djszapiAranel: so you lose basically everything, and you are telling me Ovi will check everything manually for each bit of a code, and there are no needs for security platforms, just binary scanner tools.17:36
RST38hjavispedro: are you happy? =)17:36
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: wich one?17:36
javispedroRST38h: yesterday I sent my n950 to finland for repairs, so, not much :)17:37
javispedroRST38h: happy from the webos news though17:37
djszapiAranel: you do not probably have experience with this, but even on the Ovi and Android market, it is a /huge/ job to get it right, and they cannot still manage it with these strict security policy decisions.17:37
djszapiZogG_laptop: https://projects.kde.org/projects/playground/games/gluon/repository/revisions/master/entry/player/harmattan/main.qml#L4417:37
Araneljavispedro: would you kindly send me it's URL? ^^ plus: if you enter their pw's again do they work?17:38
djszapiZogG_laptop: https://projects.kde.org/projects/playground/games/gluon/repository/revisions/master/entry/player/harmattan/MainPage.qml#L4317:38
javispedroAranel: you have the URL in that PM infobot sent you :)  After entering the passwords again it worked, but I didn't check if it remembered them after a reboot.17:38
Araneljavispedro: oops looks like infobot sent me a PM :) thank you, I'll look into it and document it's downsides if possible.17:38
RST38hjavispedro: they are opensourcing webos, I kinda thought it would eclipse n950 trouble17:38
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: iconsource?17:39
djszapiZogG_laptop: that is an example for overriding the blackground theme, yes.17:39
djszapiZogG_laptop: hold on, giving you screenshots...17:40
javispedroRST38h: I wouldn't want to put my fingers on which parts they'll opensource though17:40
javispedrook, weird sentence.,17:40
Araneldjszapi: I really don't have *any* experience on it to be honest :) I'm not opposed to Aegis, I just think that it's too restrictive and nobody cares to make it better, so getting rid of it maybe better than learning to live with it.17:40
djszapiZogG_laptop: http://lpapp.blogspot.com/2011/12/kde-mobile-and-gluon-reports.html -> You can see, the background is black under the list17:40
javispedro*be17:41
javispedro*bet :)17:41
RST38hjavispedro:same here17:41
djszapiAranel: 100-200 developers do not care maximum, but I might over-exaggerate that number. Many hundred and thousand users or even more do care about their data.17:41
Araneljavispedro: on the more "entertaining" side: since WebOS is getting open-sourced, would you think preenv for N9 :))17:41
djszapiso if you do not do a usable app for users, well go for open mode17:41
djszapiand you do not care if someone makes something nasty with your phone.17:42
javispedroAranel: doesn't help preenv at all17:42
javispedroI know all I could possibly wanted to know about PDK apps :)17:42
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: mind if I pm you?17:42
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: go ahead17:43
djszapiyipdw: if you wanna me, I can publish my account plugin code soonish.17:43
djszapi(though it does not use oauth, just plain text password authentication because the OCS standard only supports that and OpenID atm)17:44
Araneldjszapi: I can't understand the reasoning behind DeviceLock::State locks, how would It make things easier for Ovi QA?17:47
djszapiAranel: I was not speaking about that credential specifically.17:48
djszapiand as I said more times, I would like to see that available...17:48
djszapiI think you are just lost in details without seeing the forest from the trees :)17:49
Araneldjszapi: that gets another question to my mind: can we make Aegis "less aggressive" instead of completely removing it?17:49
djszapiaegis is not agressive. Aegis is a platform and tool. Same like the atomic energy17:50
Aranellike, giving a default configuration, but allowing user -by a very user-unfriendly way, if necessary- to change what's allowed or not?17:50
javispedrodm8tbr: btw, sowatch now builds in OBS. I've put the most recent versions in COBS.17:50
djszapiand as for a tool and platform like that, it allows everything to play with17:50
javispedro*my COBS17:50
dm8tbrjavispedro: \o/ awesome, time for me to learn OBS and fork it for testing LiveView :D17:51
javispedrodm8tbr: I don't know much about OBS, if you fork anything I'd prefer you fork from git :)17:51
javispedroI am going to spend a few days getting it to work on the n90017:51
javispedroprobably made much easier now thanks to achipa's qtmobility12 port17:51
djszapiAranel: parallel example, I do not dislike Qt because of the crappy creator.17:52
dm8tbrjavispedro: already did, but I can now fork the cobs package and use it for my git17:53
Araneldjszapi: I understand the reasoning behind Aegis, and the use-case of Aegis on Harmattan, but not allowing a dead-simple lock thing or a great achievement like usb hostmode.. well at least it should be possible to set which credentials will be allowed.17:53
javispedrodm8tbr: I have a script now that makes a COBSable package from the qt creator project, by just cp -ring the proper qtc_packaging subfolder and uncommenting the "Please uncomment this line for use outside of QtC" lines in debian/rules17:54
dm8tbrjavispedro: quick question, does the code as is bind a bt service on the n9? or does it only try to connect the remote watch directly?17:54
djszapiAranel: you confuse aegis (the platform) with the platform usage17:54
javispedrodm8tbr: only connect17:54
javispedrodm8tbr: metawatch doesn't try anything on its own17:54
dm8tbrjavispedro: ah, I'll need to look at that then too :/17:54
javispedroso the phone has to actively look for it17:54
Araneldjszapi: my reasoning behind this is, for example devicelock:State is harmless, but Wipe EMMC would be nasty. All-or-none is not the way to deal with it.17:54
dm8tbrLV expects that the phone is connectable17:55
djszapiAranel: you confuse aegis (the platform) with the platform usage17:55
Araneldjszapi: maybe I'm :) can you explain it more?17:55
djszapiIOW, I am also rejecting how the other lib and application developers made it crappy on Harmattan17:55
javispedrodm8tbr: that is weird :S17:55
djszapiAranel: since they had a great tool for doing whatever they want. Much better than android or anybody else has.17:56
djszapiAranel: if they pay at least few hours attention in this product development, we could have a much better policy set. Again, aegis is a platform, it does not decide instead of the platform users, like Ovi store.17:56
Aranelby the way when I'm saying "Aegis" , I don't mean the Aegis (Tool), I mean Aegis (Roadblock), I think I should made it clear before ^^17:57
djszapiAranel: so if you are not getting it, I am on your side, but as an aegis developer, I would like to enlight you, we did not decide these policies.17:57
Araneldjszapi: is there any way to instead of disabling Aegis, making new policies?17:58
djszapiAranel: typical example is the open mode kernel and a community app store for that. They can do whatever they just want with aegis.17:58
javispedroyeah17:58
djszapiAranel: yes, there is, but Ovi store decided to not give you that rights.17:58
javispedroI'm still liking the idea to someday do an AFM installer app that would prompt the user on the tokens requested17:58
javispedrosadly with the current patched kernels aegis is virtually disabled entirely17:59
RST38h"sadly"? naaaaaah17:59
dm8tbrjavispedro: you could still read the requested tokens and pop up a dialogue though?18:00
DocScrutinizerAranel: (aegis (roadblock)) I'm calling this paegis, for aegis-policies18:00
javispedrodm8tbr: yes, but in openmode you can do whatever you want even if you request no tokens18:00
javispedrodm8tbr: making it useless18:00
dm8tbrjavispedro: right, it would rely on the software being so nice and asking for everything it would like to do :)18:01
javispedronot only because of the patched mode; the d-bus daemon also stops caring18:01
javispedrodm8tbr: yep :)18:01
javispedrothe "evil" bit :D18:01
javispedro*of the patched kernel18:01
AranelAegis with custom policies sounds awesome, but I wonder if it'll be possible in the future or not.18:01
javispedroI know some people have altered aegis' policies as they wanted while in open mode then booted back to closed.18:02
DocScrutinizerit basically can not be done, as there's nothing stopping malware from getting the policies it wants18:02
javispedrothis however is probably blocked since pr1.118:02
Araneljavispedro: doesn't it run a check for this?18:02
javispedrosince pr1.1 there are some checks18:02
javispedromaybe someday'll come one can install opensh in stock :)18:03
DocScrutinizerwe'd need a NOKIA-supported dpkg-wrapper to do all this nice user-inquiring18:03
djszapijavispedro: this thingie should be a userspace tool imho, not an open-mode kernel. I think it is the wrong approach18:03
javispedrodjszapi: but without having access to the extended permissions, this would be hard18:04
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djszapijavispedro: except that if the tool comes from trusted Nokia origin, and it can do whatever it is allowed to.18:05
javispedroyeah, but you know what our chances for that are :)18:05
djszapiwell, I know what is going on internally ;)18:05
djszapior beta version is flashing exactly the same kernel, but with different flasher option18:06
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djszapithat would probably be uncomfy, but at least a better protection in a way.18:06
DocScrutinizerbut then...  http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/H_E_N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/__THIS_IS_MEANT_FOR_N9 -> >> user needs to boot into open mode kernel, something that no malware could do. Of course once you switched "to the dark side" and got opensh installed on your system, it is basically as safe or vulnerable to malware attacks as any other linux system, maybe marginally better still thanks aegis.<< User isn't supposed to install fron any18:06
DocScrutinizersource other than OVI store anyway, and the apps there are supposed to be "safe"18:06
djszapisince flashing your personal device is more confident than grabbing userspace tools18:07
djszapieven though, you should not connect to anything at the airport :D18:07
djszapisince the flasher way will not defend against that either ;)18:07
DocScrutinizerso in the end we wouldn't need *any* aegis alike thing on device, as long as QA on OVI is doing their job18:08
DocScrutinizerinstalling random crap from random sources is sth where not even aegis will save you in the end. You're doomed when you decide to go that path18:09
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javispedroit could help18:10
javispedrothough18:10
DocScrutinizeraegis is all about *forcing* users to only install from OVI18:10
DocScrutinizerwhile it tries (futile effort though) to allow apps from random sources that are considered "safe" according to the metrics of paegis. I elaborated on why this will never pan out18:11
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merlin1991I must be doing something wrong, turn off n9, start flasher with -l -b -k $ZIMAGE, plug in n9 results in a loaded kernel (according to flasher) and a screen with the batter loading icon18:27
merlin1991and no way to unlock the screen or anything18:27
javispedrohold power button? xd18:28
merlin1991turns it off :D18:28
javispedrofor not more than ~4 sec18:29
merlin1991let me retry :D18:30
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i did other trick18:31
merlin1991javispedro: it seems like the n9 doesn't really boot, I unplugged it after flasher returned, and I only got the nokia text for a few seconds before the screen went dead and the device did shut off18:34
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javispedrocharging logo means device booted18:34
merlin1991well I got no chargning logo this time, only nokia text for some time and then dead n918:35
* merlin1991 gives up18:38
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ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: what was bat status before?18:41
merlin1991about full18:42
merlin1991rebooted into normal harm, and battery shows almost full18:42
merlin1991I'm chargning it till it says full and will try again then, but I think something else is wrong18:45
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DocScrutinizer:-/18:47
DocScrutinizerwhich kernel did you use? patched or clean openmode?18:47
merlin1991patched18:47
DocScrutinizerhmmm18:47
merlin1991it looks like it didn't get past nolo for me (if the initial nokia logo is from nolo)18:47
DocScrutinizerI should finally start tests myself ;-D18:48
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: duh, you got latest PR?18:48
DocScrutinizerNOLO got some updates recently18:48
DocScrutinizerto make unsigned kernels load18:48
merlin1991I'm on 1.1 (20.2011.40-4_PR_001)18:49
DocScrutinizerhmmm18:49
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DocScrutinizerFFS18:49
* DocScrutinizer goes for having another secret conference ;-D18:50
gabriel9howdy18:50
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djszapizz_gri: I think the storeIdentity in your account plugin is not correct18:54
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: may i ask another question19:01
gabriel9i can't find a way to detect orientation in qml19:02
gabriel9just in c++19:02
djszapigabriel9: use components and you will love it19:02
gabriel9components? :D19:03
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djszapiZogG_laptop: never !! ;) go agead, do not ask to ask ..19:03
djszapiahead*19:03
gabriel9where are that comnponents?19:03
DocScrutinizerso *anybody* actually tested the openmode kernel (either flavour) of http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/H_E_N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/ ?19:03
djszapitake a look at the landing page19:04
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djszapibut anyway, why would you like to detect the orientation on top of what the components provide ? http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt-components/qt-components-meego-page.html?tab=119:05
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i use gridview and i used delegate Image{} now i changed to mousearea{image{}} and i added onpressed but nothing happens on pressed, i want to select image from grid19:07
gabriel9well i want to resize some elements when i'm in landscape19:07
djszapiI am unsure that is a valid common use case, as in: that is probably the reason why they did not focus on that feature...19:08
gabriel9maybe19:08
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: what i did wrong?19:09
gabriel9i noticed that toolbar shrinks/expands when changing orientation19:09
djszapiZogG_laptop: why don't you use a button with iconSource ?19:10
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: so make all images buttons?19:10
djszapior put the MouseArea inside the image...19:11
djszapiif it is implemented that way....19:11
djszapiif not, Item { Image {...} MouseArea {...}19:11
djszapi}19:11
djszapiso if Image does not allow that, you need to use a container for that, I bet.19:11
Richlv<djszapi> Richlv: you are notw allowed to do chown from unknown origin.19:12
Richlvhmm, what does "from unknown origin" mean here ?19:12
djszapibut I would prefer MTF questions :P19:12
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djszapiRichlv: exactly that, you do not have a trusted origin for executing that stuff19:12
djszapior develsh.19:12
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-12-09.log.html#t2011-12-09T07:51:56 seems z720 booted that kernel successfully19:14
DocScrutinizer>>1st state N9 boot open kernel without issues, without installing anything just play with some apps and reboot. N9 die, now need to reflash.<<19:15
DocScrutinizerso what's up fellas? I need FEEDBACK if that stuff on http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/H_E_N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/ is actually useful to anybody!19:16
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: seems like he got further than I did, I just can't get it to boot the kernel19:18
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DocScrutinizerhmm, yeah. That's what bothers me a lot20:00
DocScrutinizeranyway javispedro says he booted the kernel - even on N95020:00
djszapiVenemo_N950: o/20:01
djszapizz_gri: the translation saying about this might be not entirely correct:     <name>Nokia Account</name>20:01
djszapi    <description>Nokia account for Ovi</description>20:01
djszapizz_gri: the Nokia account for Ovi seems to be doing basically the same I did.20:01
DocScrutinizerso I wonder a) why it doesn't work for you, and b) if ANYBODY ELSE got it working or failed. Seems feedback is sparse, maybe openmode is not that interesting to devels as we all thought20:02
Venemo_N950hey djszapi20:05
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: it will prove quite valuable to the subset of N9 owners that are looking for more than just consuming the basic set of OVI apps etc.20:08
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: only if it gets used and actually works20:09
djszapiVenemo_N950: how is stuff ? :)20:09
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: when i press on certain button on grid how can i tell the function it was this button or not other?20:11
ZogG_laptopdo i need to make function to generate ids?20:11
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djszapidelegates do have this index.20:11
djszapibut I tried it with lists, so no real idea about the grid thingie...20:12
djszapiI would expect that it provider the row and column index...20:12
djszapiprovides*20:12
djszapitry to seek the relevant qt codebase for information. They tend to underdocument these features...20:13
djszapicurrentIndex : int20:14
djszapicurrentItem : Item20:14
djszapihe currentIndex property holds the index of the current item, and currentItem holds the current item. Setting the currentIndex to -1 will clear the highlight and set currentItem to null.20:15
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djszapiso if you would like to use this index on the next page, you better save it into a local property created.20:16
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djszapihttps://projects.kde.org/projects/playground/games/gluon/repository/revisions/master/entry/player/harmattan/MainPage.qml#L27 -> 27 and 53, you will love it20:17
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i think i managed, but i have other question : if i have one page for upload and other with gallarie, how i pass result to upload?20:18
djszapiwhat result ?20:18
ZogG_laptopthe button id e.g.20:19
djszapiI have just written it above ....20:19
djszapiby giving a practical example from a working code...20:19
ZogG_laptopoh missed that20:19
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: confused20:32
djszapiconfused about what ?20:33
ZogG_laptopwhere you use function pushPage20:35
djszapiconfused about what ?20:36
ZogG_laptop?20:37
djszapiI think you are not asking precise questions.20:37
djszapiI am not sure what your problem is, or what you are confused about.20:38
Venemo_N950djszapi, well, thanks for your asking :)20:45
Venemo_N950djszapi, I've just won a fair match of Starcraft 2, so I'm in a good mood20:47
javispedrowaaaaaah20:47
djszapiwe should play one together at some point...20:47
javispedroI want my VGA card back20:47
djszapiI was a big SC1 battlegame player :)20:47
* javispedro curses ASUS and their RMA20:47
Venemo_N950djszapi, you play SC2 too? :)20:48
djszapinever tried, but I was quite okay with battlenet on SC1. I think I had a good achievement there :)20:48
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Venemo_N950djszapi :)20:55
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* Richlv wants cellhunter on n9 =)21:08
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Richlvalthough trying to get registration status from dbus fails with   "Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.nokia.phone.net was not provided by any .service files" :/21:23
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: where is the point in code where you pass data to other qml?22:34
ZogG_laptopto other page?22:35
djszapiZogG_laptop: I do not pass it. The other page can access to the property of this page..22:37
djszapibut you can surely make a js function or similar things for passing.22:38
ZogG_laptopi saw your fuction but cant find where u use it22:38
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djszapihttps://projects.kde.org/projects/playground/games/gluon/repository/revisions/master/entry/player/harmattan/GameDetailsModel.qml#L3722:40
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Richlvis there any "suggested" method to get java on n9 ? (to run microemulator with it)23:42
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