IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2011-12-07

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gabriel9	damn	00:14
gabriel9	i can't put toolbar on the top	00:14
GeneralAntilles	OK, why does this damn thing arbitrarily decide not to use WiFi networks automatically?	00:19
gabriel9	did you turn on background connection?	00:20
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M4rtinK	also, the networks might need to be moved to the "connect automatically" group in settings	00:22
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I keep switching it on	00:26
GeneralAntilles	and it keeps turning it off.	00:26
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Tronic	GeneralAntilles: I think that happens when in powersave mode.	00:34
Tronic	Then it won't keep itself connected unless there is a reason.	00:34
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gabriel9	Does anyone know where can i found projects from here: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Develop/Qt/Code_examples/Qt_Quick.xhtml	01:18
gabriel9	they are not aviable anymore	01:19
djszapi	they /are/ available	01:21
djszapi	there is just some maintenance ongoing, but it does not mean they deleted the projects for fun	01:21
M4rtinK	maybe they are somewhere on Gitorious ?	01:29
M4rtinK	at least the examples gallery lives there	01:29
gabriel9	maybe	01:30
gabriel9	can anyone tell me what is this element for header bar: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_UI_design_in_Harmattan_applications.html	01:31
gabriel9	rectangle	01:33
djszapi	I know it in MTF, but not in components..	01:37
djszapi	not sure it is exposed, as many other important things are not exposed either.	01:37
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gabriel9	MTF?	01:42
djszapi	Meego Touch Framework	01:43
djszapi	the whole operation under QML.	01:43
djszapi	Components*	01:43
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gabriel9	i don't understand why are they keap it a secret	01:46
djszapi	what do you mean ?	01:47
gabriel9	exposed	01:48
gabriel9	it is not exposed	01:48
gabriel9	so it is a secret	01:48
djszapi	because components and qml in general are pre-mature stuff	01:49
gabriel9	aha	01:50
gabriel9	so i shuold wait or get source code of the File Manager	01:50
gabriel9	it's late, good night	01:51
rzr	there are some opensource filemanagers to look at	01:51
gabriel9	http://store.ovi.com/content/208884?clickSource=search&pos=2	01:52
M4rtinK	even filebox has not source yet	01:52
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M4rtinK	at least I didn't find it anywhere	01:53
rzr	cuteexplorer is opensource see my test	01:54
rzr	http://rzr.online.fr/q/file	01:54
djszapi	what should we see in cuteexplorer ?	01:54
djszapi	I do not see the sheet header...	01:55
djszapi	there is only a custom lineedit, that is	01:55
rzr	hint press play button	01:56
rzr	bottom left	01:56
djszapi	did, but I did not see sheet header	01:56
rzr	what is a sheet header ?	01:57
mgedmin	I peeked at the builtin apps and decided the header was just part of the background png	01:57
rzr	ah that one you talked before i joined in	01:57
rzr	ok	01:57
djszapi	what gabriel9 actually asked	01:57
mgedmin	I tried to emulate it with a few rectangles and text	01:57
djszapi	this cuteexplorer has nothing to do with it	01:57
djszapi	mgedmin: not really	01:58
djszapi	there is a MTF element for this directly.	01:58
mgedmin	that must be nice for those using MTF...	01:58
djszapi	it is just the mere fact, components is pre-mature about this, too	01:58
mgedmin	anyway here's my half-baked attempt at a QML header bar: https://github.com/mgedmin/qml-time-tracker/blob/master/qml/TimeTracker/Header.qml	01:58
djszapi	yes, it is hackable, but it is not nice	01:59
djszapi	imho, it would be nice if someone can send a patch against qt components even if they more or less refuse reviewing merge requests.	02:00
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phunguy	does the n9 wifi-hotspot fix need to be applied against pr 1.1?	02:04
M4rtinK	also, they might do something about the menu "pop up" having fixed size in landscape	02:05
M4rtinK	even if you just add a single vertical slider, it stile covers about 40% of the screen	02:05
M4rtinK	*still	02:06
phunguy	M4rtinK> are you talking about how we can't use the qt components in qt creator for harmattan like we can for symbian?	02:12
M4rtinK	no	02:13
M4rtinK	I mean that when you call open() on a Menu instance	02:13
djszapi	M4rtinK: what are you talking about ?	02:13
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djszapi	what menu instance and 40 ? I am not getting it	02:14
djszapi	40%*	02:14
M4rtinK	djszapi: just an example of another quirk in components	02:14
djszapi	quirk in what ?	02:14
djszapi	I do not experience any 40%	02:15
M4rtinK	lets have a Menu: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt-components/qt-components-meego-menu.html	02:15
M4rtinK	in portrait, it respects the size of its content	02:15
djszapi	as for me: joikuspot: pretty much 20% maximum	02:16
djszapi	and that is fair enough. Nothing to fix on that	02:16
M4rtinK	in landscape it has a fixed width	02:16
djszapi	it is the same respect for me in both orientations	02:16
M4rtinK	strange	02:17
djszapi	the height of the cell is according to the text	02:17
djszapi	I see no problems.	02:17
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rafael2k	people, I installed mplayer package and using x11 driver any video played fine, but after some seconds the screen goes black. if I tap any key, screen comes back	02:52
rafael2k	how to disable screen blanking?	02:53
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z720	anyidea this err "onenand_wait: correctable ECC error = 0x0100, addr1 0xa, addr8 0x0"	03:38
z720	could it be bad memory?	03:38
SpeedEvil	Correctable errors are normal	03:39
SpeedEvil	Abd expected	03:40
z720	got it,now at least not that worry	03:42
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ptl	Hello!	04:31
ptl	I had an N900 and I am considering buying the N9. Does it offer a similar experience? I've read that it doesn't have GTK+, does it mean it does not run GTK+ applications at all?	04:32
ptl	'ello?	04:38
ieatlint	the UI is completely different, and no, gtk applications will not work on a stock n9	04:42
ptl	on a 'stock' n9; but is it possible to apt-get it, or something?	04:50
ptl	my devices do not stay in 'stock' state for too long :D	04:50
hiemanshu	ptl: getting GTK+ working on the N9 would be like putting in a V6 engine in a V8 car, not that it wont work, It will be too of much work and the end result isnt that satisfying :P	05:18
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ptl	hiemanshu: but there are good GNU/Linux GTK+ applications and that's the point of me wanting that.	05:24
ptl	hiemanshu: is it 'too much work' or is it an apt-get away?	05:25
yipdw	ptl: gtk+ isn't in any repositories shipped on the device; I'm not sure how much effort would be required to import appropriate packages from another source	05:30
yipdw	(haven't tried)	05:30
ptl	so in practice it's not really there. I thought most programs written for the N900 would be ported to the N9, so I'm mistaken.	05:34
ptl	So, is it worth it since I cannot run my old GNU/Linux favorites? At least packages like ImageMagick work?	05:34
yipdw	ptl: well, in that one specific case:	05:41
yipdw	$ apt-cache search imagemagick	05:41
yipdw	imagemagick - image manipulation programs	05:41
yipdw	if you'd like, I can upload an apt-cache dump of what's on my N9, which is pretty much in its stock configuration (+ developer mode enabled)	05:42
hiemanshu	ptl: well you'll have to compile, install gtk+, writing the theming of it so it has a native look, etc, its too much of work really	05:43
yipdw	amusingly, emacs22-gtk is in the package list, but it's broken	05:44
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ptl	yipdw: sorry, I was away, yes, I'd like that very much to have an idea :-)	06:10
ptl	vim is?	06:11
yipdw	ptl: https://raw.github.com/gist/98e1daea24f9c0b45108/5e298785d36d5dd9795834a47e19492b4e207273/gistfile1.txt	06:13
ptl	thanks	06:13
ptl	2399 packages... seems low :-/	06:15
yipdw	there's not much there, yeah	06:16
ptl	there's no vim???	06:23
ptl	sysvinit looks like a regression, the N900 used upstart	06:24
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Tronic	ptl: Think of N9 as a smart phone where N900 was a pocket-sized laptop with a phone.	06:40
Tronic	There still are too many limitations with N9 :/	06:40
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yipdw	ptl: the Mer project may be up your alley	06:43
Erika	if n9 had a keyboard it could easily be as powerful as n900	06:52
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hiemanshu	Erika: not really, platsec screws a lot of things up	06:54
Erika	what's that	06:54
hiemanshu	platform security, Aegis in this matter	07:04
Erika	oh	07:04
hiemanshu	It stops you from a lot of things	07:13
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ieatlint	yeah, the n950s don't exactly change the whole dynamic of the OS just because they have a keyboard	07:20
ieatlint	i like the n9, and i like the new OS, but it targets a different demographic vs the n900	07:20
ieatlint	the n900 was much more of a hacker phone... the n9 was designed to be a consumer device	07:21
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djszapi	Erika: do not listen to hiemanshu. Platform Security has nothing to do with policies. He cannot realize it, sadly.	07:42
Erika	it's a shame they couldn't release an updated n900 with an usb port that doesnt break loose and some updated specs	07:42
dm8tbr	djszapi: please cut this condescending tone out in here, thanks.	07:43
djszapi	Erika: too much expectation. These projects are not tiny	07:43
Erika	i know :P	07:44
Erika	it's all marketing, as far as i know	07:44
Erika	probably why they dropped meego in favor of windows	07:44
Erika	more money to be made	07:44
djszapi	and sadly, we investigated MeeGo	07:44
Erika	yeah	07:45
djszapi	much more than Intel, and that was a big mistake.	07:45
Erika	yeah	07:45
dm8tbr	well, meego was not a bad concept, it was the politics that made it a problem. then it was cut off before gains could materialize	07:46
djszapi	please do not misinterpret me, thanks.	07:46
Erika	meego would make a fine phone os (vs maemo being a mobile computer os)	07:46
djszapi	I have never sad MeeGo is a bad concept.	07:46
hiemanshu	oh wait djszapi started off again?	07:46
dm8tbr	djszapi: please do not misinterpret my comments. ktx	07:46
djszapi	Erika: platform security does not decide policies. It is just a tool/platform (as its name says). Restrict policies are decided elsewhere. Just for making sure, many people not understanding this simple principle will not bypass you. ;)	07:48
Erika	i understand	07:48
hiemanshu	aegis stops you from doing alot of things you could do with the N900, PERIOD!	07:48
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* DocScrutinizer fetches popcorn and watches the silence		07:55
jonni	N9 Harmattan has aegis as tool to protect binary integrity on consumer OS, N9 Nemo is not consumer OS and doesnt have aegis, and you can do what ever you like to, just like in N900. And you can still flash your custom kernel to make harmattan a hacker device, but you just cant submit apps that use too much credentials to ovi store.	07:58
djszapi	and you lose the warranty.	08:01
djszapi	which is the most dangerous imo about this expensive device.	08:01
jonni	so in reality aegis is not stopping you to do anything, its the ovi store source-policy which limits what credentials can be applied to your applications, if you want to massmarket your app.	08:02
DocScrutinizer	while the selection of incriminated credentials is obviously rather random	08:02
DocScrutinizer	and the first 2 or 3 implementations of aegis (incl the core policies) were rather buggy and allowed a hacker to do whatever they want, while throwing sticks at legs of nice developers and users	08:04
dm8tbr	on a much productive note: does anyone know if I can download compiled sowatch packages anywhere?	08:04
DocScrutinizer	dunno if next (p)aegis version will be better	08:04
dm8tbr	I only found one from september	08:04
pabs3	personally I want some platsec on my laptop, some app isolation would be nice since there are so many security issues these days	08:07
DocScrutinizer	pabs3: get selinux	08:09
DocScrutinizer	or apparmor	08:09
DocScrutinizer	those are made to serve your demand - aegis not	08:10
pabs3	I didn't think that would allow say, preventing Firefox from looking at my SSH keys	08:10
DocScrutinizer	sure	08:10
Stskeeps	it's 7am and we're discussing aegis? really?	08:10
Stskeeps	:P	08:10
DocScrutinizer	exactly that is what both are made for	08:10
pabs3	Stskeeps: its 2pm not 7am	08:10
jonni	just run your firefox with different uid, problem solved :)	08:10
DocScrutinizer	dang, in an hour I'm learning about OSE	08:11
DocScrutinizer	so I have to do it now	08:11
DocScrutinizer	pabs3: for your problem even ACL might suffice	08:11
djszapi	pabs3 defome "your SSH keys". root or user ?	08:12
djszapi	define*	08:12
DocScrutinizer	one thing's for sure: aegis doesn't help for the issue	08:12
DocScrutinizer	tbh HARM has worse problems than just aegis: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-12-06.log.html#t2011-12-06T22:46:49	08:15
DocScrutinizer	it's just a me-too anridiotoid OS	08:15
pabs3	HARM?	08:15
DocScrutinizer	or maybe metoo-iOS	08:16
DocScrutinizer	HARM Ain't Real Meego	08:16
DocScrutinizer	~harm	08:16
pabs3	heh	08:16
djszapi	because if you run firefox as root, it cannot access to the user ssh key, and vica versa	08:16
DocScrutinizer	ok, guys. have fun!	08:18
DocScrutinizer	cheers	08:18
MohammadAG	Third N950 out for delivery!!!	08:19
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: you mean it's actually arriving, having passed customs?	08:22
DocScrutinizer	with his luck... I wasn't surprised it "fell off the truck" 100m before arriving at him - or just a package with a stone inside arrives	08:24
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil: Today yeah	08:26
SpeedEvil	:)	08:26
MohammadAG	Took two weeks though	08:28
MohammadAG	The first one took 2 days	08:28
DocScrutinizer	they forgot which of both was the one with the explosives inside ;-D	08:28
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w00t	MohammadAG: what happened to the second? :-P	08:40
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hiemanshu	w00t: the customs department kept it with them :P	08:47
w00t	wth, permanently? :)	08:50
w00t	not that I can completely blame them!	08:50
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hiemanshu	well until Nokia askes them for it	08:50
hiemanshu	or something like that	08:50
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Piru	interesting. my N9 has been losing the phone part recently. cannot call or receive calls, sms or else. gprs is dead as well. .. until I either powercycle or hotplug the sim	09:00
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djszapi	jonni: your devicelockd restart idea will not work	09:17
djszapi	just only if autolock is set off	09:17
djszapi	which is normally not the case	09:17
jonni	hmm, I have autolock 60 minutes, and restart works for me atleast	09:18
jonni	or you mean that only if autolock is set on?	09:18
denism	yes it will work for 60 minutes	09:19
djszapi	jonni: it will not work if the autolock is off*	09:19
djszapi	and many people use the phone like that since they do not normally know or want to know the code. They would not like to bother with it basically.	09:20
jonni	ah thats true, but it shouldnt work anyways, since there are cases that if autolock is off, then security code has not even been defined yet.	09:20
djszapi	and the devicelock credential deny is "almost" intentional	09:21
djszapi	because of this reason.	09:21
djszapi	as many people do not know their code, so they will be unable to unlock it.	09:21
dm8tbr	For me the raison d'etre of such a button is anyway: lock now instead after timeout.	09:21
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jonni	I would be more worried if it would prompt for code before code has been even set.	09:22
djszapi	which is not the case.	09:22
djszapi	:) buy a phone, give it to me for a minute to take a look on it - and your phone will have unknown for you lock code, even a child is able to set up, just playing with the device. Any change by user to devicelock settings has to be confirmed by entering lock code	09:23
djszapi	just initial set up of lock code - does not require anything. and it is really a problem/bug. But it was an important 'business requirement' by somebody who is not working in Nokia anymore :) so such lesson will not be learn by them	09:23
denism	djszapi: of course it is cool, but I really do not understand why do you quote me from our private p.m.o. discussion - publicly without saying to me that you will do so	09:25
djszapi	it was from Denis, yes	09:26
djszapi	I am sorry for the missing quotes	09:26
djszapi	I did not know this yesterday, and I would accept that if it is available.	09:26
djszapi	sorry for not asking*	09:28
djszapi	couldn't a popup dialog happen if the autolock is off if someone tries to programatically do it ? From the devicelock side, just a syslog entry ? The programmer could make it visible in a popup or so ?	09:33
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djszapi	so this is this the relevant bug: https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=114	09:36
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer: The second N950 still shows clearance delay, wonder if Nokia will ever get it back	09:42
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dm8tbr	Just a friendly reminder to all people here on the channel. Please do not expose/quote/discuss internal/NDA information on this channel. Thank You!	09:55
Stskeeps	and if anyone reveals obvious NDA'ed information, don't hesitate to report them to corporate security?	09:56
ptl	why not? let'em do that :P it's like reading spoilers for a miniseries	09:56
ptl	NDA is overrated anyway	09:56
Stskeeps	ptl: even for open source developers it's tainted, let's say, if someone spilled copyrighted source code it wouldn't be usable	09:56
yipdw	actually, on that note, I do seriously wonder -- if MeeGo/Harmattan is truly considered dead by Nokia -- what the barriers to open-sourcing most of it are	09:57
yipdw	some parts, like the Dolby Surround code, sure, I understand that that must remain closed	09:57
Stskeeps	yipdw: time, money, 3rd party stuff	09:57
Stskeeps	open sourcing isn't cheap	09:57
yipdw	I know there's costs involved, but how bad are they	09:57
dm8tbr	in a huge corporate environment? imense	09:58
pabs3	I would hope the opposite, reveal more NDA stuff thanks	09:58
MohammadAG	Very I'd say	09:58
w00t	getting lawyers to read over everything, and getting hackers to clean things up enough for a release at $x/hr, for thousands, hundreds of thousands of LOC? a lot	09:58
Stskeeps	yipdw: one of the good things about nokia open source is that they check everything through so what you get non-tainted OSS	09:58
Stskeeps	it costs, but so does a lawsuit if you used it and it happens to infringe on someone's patent	09:59
Stskeeps	or license conditions, etc	09:59
dm8tbr	other companies forget to remove the 'confidential' 'need permission to even look at' stuff from their headers	09:59
dm8tbr	not to mention forgetting to properly add licensing info	09:59
Stskeeps	so, long story short: bloody expensive	09:59
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yipdw	well, I was hoping for a response from some of the Nokians around here, but I guess that'll do	10:01
* yipdw has open-sourced previously proprietary code before, didn't find it too hellish		10:01
yipdw	admittedly, very different environment than Nokia	10:02
Stskeeps	i worked as maemo.org distmaster and assisted doing this, so it's pretty accurate	10:02
yipdw	ahh	10:02
Stskeeps	smaller companies are usually easier to do it, but a big company with patents to protect..	10:02
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Stskeeps	but i do believe that different approaches than those are needed for a big company to be agile in open source	10:04
Stskeeps	it's methods that were invented in a world where git trees weren't common	10:04
Stskeeps	just tarball distributions	10:04
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djszapiN9	do you know dm8tbr ?	10:12
hiemanshu	huh?	10:12
djszapiN9	sorry, bad completion :p	10:12
Stskeeps	hiemanshu: as in, oss were released in code drop formats, tarballs, not with git-like constant patching and merging, collaboration	10:13
djszapiN9	interesting, i was in a separate query tab, and it inserted in the main ha channel	10:13
hiemanshu	Stskeeps: that was for djszapiN9 :P	10:13
djszapiN9	irc-chatter, weird	10:14
Stskeeps	arh, ok, i have him on ignore for the sanity of both of us, so nevermind	10:14
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hiemanshu	Stskeeps: lol ok	10:21
djszapiN9	also, if i click on seaparate tabs, it inserts texts into the type field. It is also a regression, I think	10:23
hiemanshu	and I thought you didn't care about it since I was working on it	10:24
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MohammadAG	N950 delivered \o/	11:02
MohammadAG	I'm 200km away though	11:02
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hiemanshu	MohammadAG: haha, run to it!	11:30
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hiemanshu		11:43
*** hiemanshu changes topic to "A place for harmattan device and development discussions \| Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member \| Please stop on topic and no NDA stuff here \| Developers : http://library.developer.nokia.com/ \| http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page \| logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ \|"		11:44
*** hiemanshu changes topic to "A place for harmattan device and development discussions \| Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member \| Please stay on topic and no NDA stuff here \| Developers : http://library.developer.nokia.com/ \| http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page \| logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ \|"		11:45
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javispedro	honor thy nda!	11:45
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rcg	oh nda... we're not worthy... http://forums.watchuseek.com/attachments/f10/429570d1304196362-vintage-explosives-timer%3B-how-does-work-were-not-worthy.jpg	11:58
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decibyte	haha. i wish i wasn't too dumb to guess what's been revealed that shouldn't have been.	12:08
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denism	about my message on (today 09:24:02 AM) denism - there was no any NDA violiation, but it was just a quote from a private channel which I did not expect	12:16
denism	if really I hope there will be more public information about devicelock available later, as it provides a lot of interesting dbus services (non-protected by aegis), like 'provisioning settings' - which might be useful for some other enterprise software (not only to Mail for Exchange on the device)	12:19
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dm8tbr	thanks for clarifying. still it doesn't hurt to remind people from time to time that this is a public channel :)	12:19
jonni	just submitted my first N9 app to Ovi store, lets see what QA will say :)	12:19
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javispedro	fun read -- https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s#105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s	12:26
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javispedro	some of the problems she mentions also ring a bell, which is ... funny, one would guess they'd have more manpower.	12:27
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javispedro	and more influence on 3d driver's devs	12:28
javispedro	some of the thinks she says are also lies (or at least, they are why-they-are-doing-this); she fails to mention EGL_CONTEXT_LOST at all for ex.	12:29
javispedro	s/thinks/things	12:30
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javispedro	do not read the comments unless you want to die laughing though.	12:33
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alterego	jonni: what's the app? :)	12:46
jonni	alterego: BabyLock	12:50
alterego	What does it do?	12:50
jonni	disables swipe on any application that you want to.	12:51
djszapi	jonni: does it use the same thing you sent me when I asked about game screen locking ?	12:52
jonni	just something that was requested in forums, ie for games that have forgotten to disable swipe, and your irritated when game swipes away accidentally, or if you want to give device to baby for playing drums app or whatever.	12:52
jonni	djszapi: yes,'almost' the same thing :)	12:53
djszapi	I was referring to the API call you showed.	12:53
alterego	How do you get out of apps then if you disable swipe and there's no quit button?	12:53
jonni	alterego: short press powerbutton	12:53
alterego	Is that already an OS feature?	12:53
jonni	re-enables swipe again	12:54
alterego	Or something you've integrated?	12:54
jonni	nope, its not an os feature :)	12:54
alterego	Oh, short press should lock :)	12:54
jonni	I've just integrated that together	12:54
alterego	Cool,	12:54
jonni	basicly it just re-enables swipe when you visit lockscreen	12:54
alterego	Neat	12:55
jonni	that way it works for all apps	12:55
jonni	managed to increase my Airport record from 42 to 84 after I disabled swipe on it. was really irritating when screen swiped away when there was 10 planes in collision course.	12:57
djszapi	I guess it does not hurt my application where this feature is already available. So it is not toggle hopefully :)	12:59
jonni	should not hurt, and anyways I only expect people to use it on apps that dont have that option built-in.	13:03
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djszapi	Can you lookf or patterns in the description of the applications whether or not there are already similar applications ?	13:08
djszapi	It is sometimes to hard to figure it out from application names.	13:09
djszapi	speaking of which, does Ovi check the description for being decent ?	13:09
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jonni	djszapi: using web browser in store.ovi.com search allows you also to search description	13:29
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djszapi	jonni: how about the ovi client ?	13:38
jonni	djszapi: just checked actually ovi client search also searches the description	13:39
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djszapi	right	13:41
jonni	web is just easier to use since you see the descriptions in the list without opening each app seperately	13:41
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cos^	does anyone suffer from N950 asking PIN code randomly?	14:09
cos^	it might be related to poor cell reception as it happens often at home	14:10
trx	most of the time, i have no cell reception at home	14:14
trx	still, it never happened to me	14:14
pabs3	I don't think 'suffer' means what you think it means	14:14
trx	so i dont think its related to signal reception	14:15
jreznik	maybe try different sim card	14:23
decibyte	is the sim inserted the same way as on n9?	14:23
decibyte	via that sliding thing at the top?	14:24
jreznik	decibyte: no it's not	14:26
decibyte	okay	14:26
jreznik	and the mechanism is... so there's possibility that it's not hold there correctly and then it asks for pin once it's registered again	14:27
hiemanshu	decibyte: its slid in on the side, a full size sim	14:28
hiemanshu	well technically mini-sim	14:28
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decibyte	it's just that both a friend a i had some problems with reception dropping and even sometimes having to reenter the pin. he put a couple of pieces of tape on the back of the sim, says it has improved for him. i did it just yesterday, too early to tell whether it has improved for me.	14:29
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Aranel_N9	How can I manually lock N9 (as in lock code)? I'm all ears for any hacks/tips. 'initctl restart' doesnt work for me. (command not found)	14:52
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djszapi	Aranel_N9: can you paste the output?	15:00
dm8tbr	I'd try /sbin/initctl instead of just initctl	15:01
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djszapi	if /sbin is not in the path, there are bigger issues	15:02
dm8tbr	djszapi: go file a show-stopper then, it isn't.	15:04
djszapi	Aranel_N9: do you try it over ssh btw ?	15:04
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djszapi	Aranel_N9: because it seems the terminal drops it for .. no idea why ..	15:05
djszapi	but if you will use it from your app, it should work since other apps also use it that way	15:06
djszapi	it should also work over ssh	15:08
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Aranel_N9	djszapi: okay /sbin/initctl works and restarted perfectly. But It didn't lock the screen.	15:09
djszapi	Aranel_N9: do you use terminal ?	15:10
djszapi	I would not recommend that for development..	15:10
Aranel_N9	djszapi yes I did to try, why not?	15:11
djszapi	because you have issues like this	15:11
djszapi	which does not happen over ssh if you have an access to a PC	15:11
djszapi	Aranel_N9: you do not have the autolock off right ?	15:12
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Aranel_N9	djszapi I do :/ But It's why I am doing this, to lock screen manually without using autolock	15:18
dm8tbr	works for me here	15:18
dm8tbr	Aranel_N9: it will only work if you have devicelock timeout enabled in general	15:18
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djszapi	Aranel_N9: it does not work if autolock is off as said previously.	15:19
dm8tbr	Aranel_N9: just set the timeout to some very high value and then you can override it with this to lock instantly	15:19
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dm8tbr	Aranel_N9: if you don't want to do this another approach might be a shortcut that opens the settings window with the device lock settings. dunno if that's possible	15:20
djszapi	Aranel_N9: sadly, it does not work otherwise.	15:20
Aranel_N9	dm8tbr I cant set it higher than 60 mins.	15:20
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djszapi	Aranel_N9: yes, that is true.	15:21
Aranel_N9	how about a script to set it to 60min, restart initctl and set it back to off? How can I set it to 60/off from xterm?	15:22
dm8tbr	I can see that some people would like such a constellation. Probably the closest is that shortcut I mentioned	15:22
djszapi	Aranel_N9: If I am not mistaken you cannot. That is why I said cannot do much else sadly.	15:24
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cos^	decibyte: thanks, i'll try that. but it won't affect bad reception..	15:26
Aranel_N9	djszapi So It's not possible if I dont set autolock on?	15:37
djszapi	restart will not work as you expect, no.	15:39
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Aranel_N9	djszapi maybe an API or something like that? No hope? ._.	15:41
djszapi	Aranel_N9: Ovi did not allow you to do that, nope.	15:41
djszapi	https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=114	15:42
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MohammadAG	What's this autolock bug everyone's talking about	15:49
Aranel_N9	djszapi okay then :/ Thank you for your help so far :)	15:53
Aranel_N9	MohammadAG I was trying to lock the N9 screen manually (as in lock code) but for some reason there is not any api for that.	15:55
djszapi	there is an API for that, but no available credentials.	15:55
Aranel_N9	djszapi would it be fixed in 1.2 maybe?	15:56
djszapi	I think it will be fixed never	15:56
Aranel_N9	djszapi why not?	15:58
djszapi	I cannot talk about the details.	15:58
MohammadAG	There is an API	15:59
MohammadAG	You Need mce::Devlock	15:59
MohammadAG	Or something like that	15:59
MohammadAG	You can	15:59
MohammadAG	It's because it allowed unlocking the device without a code on Fremantle	15:59
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Aranel_N9	djszapi oh ok :) so if Nokia doesnt allow us to do, they should implement manual lock themselves. I'll file a bug/whine more about it ^^ Thank you anyway :)	16:10
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djszapi	please do not, just add your 0.02$ in the bug above.	16:11
jmaister	Hi! I'm having a wierd issue with svg on meego: http://cl.ly/1c0s093A1W2g2N26232j it's supposed to look like this: http://cl.ly/2T3e0y1U1B2V333a3v3Y Any idea what the problem may be?	16:11
Aranel_N9	MohammadAG yeah I heard that one but according to @djszapi its not working atm.	16:12
djszapi	correct	16:13
Aranel_N9	djszapi I'll do that too but I think manual lock also needs its own report, even if the more general api bug doesnt get fixed, at least it'd okay if they solve this spesific issue.	16:15
djszapi	none will be solved but go ahead :)))	16:16
djszapi	Aranel_N9: but please make a reference from yoru report into the o ther	16:19
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Jare	i think nokia should bind manual devlock to the double click action of the power button	16:25
djszapi	that would block me to check out the date if the screenlock is on	16:26
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djszapi	but I think a software button would be nice	16:28
djszapi	Arkenoi: you can write an OVI software for this with either a software button or double click as mentioned above :)	16:31
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Jare	how so? There's a threshold value for double click action	16:31
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faenil	N9 44-2 ( PR 1.2 ? ) Firmware on navifirm!	16:34
djszapi	no	16:35
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Jare	a software button in the app menu would be sufficient too	16:36
Jare	can it be implemented by someone else than nokia?	16:37
Jare	or how is it with those credentials above?	16:37
djszapi	yes and no.	16:37
djszapi	it is not more than handling a button with that restart command. Not much more than that. Fairly simple app to Ovi. You cannot turn the autolock off though	16:38
Jare	anyway it shouldn't take more than "five minutes" for nokia to do such an app, should it?	16:38
djszapi	it should	16:39
djszapi	much more than 5 minutes	16:39
djszapi	if possible at all that I doubt.	16:39
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Jare	btw is there any news on samba filesharing?	16:41
djszapi	I think I shared everything needed about that	16:42
djszapi	no changes expected	16:42
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Sazpaimon	so what's this 44-2 firmware about	17:15
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Sazpaimon	looks like it's only available in MEA variants	17:21
Corsac	hmhm, interesting, the phone just asked me my PIN code, without any reboot or so	17:22
cos^	Corsac: N9 or -50?	17:26
Corsac	N9	17:26
cos^	so the bug is in both models	17:27
cos^	did it happen in a place with poor cell reception?	17:27
Corsac	hmhm, it's at full bars right now	17:27
Corsac	but we have large, rock wals	17:28
Corsac	walls*	17:28
cos^	mine seems to ask for pin code at home in a room with bad reception	17:28
cos^	but here at work it hasn't asked for it even once	17:28
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Corsac	hmhm, what exactly is lost when doing a reflash?	18:20
Corsac	(or maybe, what is not lost)	18:20
dm8tbr	your IMEI :)	18:26
dm8tbr	cos^: I think there are at least two problems. One is related to bad reception, the other is related to how the card sits in the device.	18:27
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cos^	dm8tbr: could be. the latter is solved easier.	18:39
dm8tbr	nod	18:39
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ZogG_laptop	\o	18:49
ZogG_laptop	hmmm, why would char* data;	18:51
ZogG_laptop	data = malloc(BUFFER_SIZE);	18:51
ZogG_laptop	would work in C + gcc compiling	18:51
ZogG_laptop	while in qt creator it doesn't compiles =(	18:51
djszapi	depends on the "does not compile details".	18:53
ZogG_laptop	upload.cpp:92: error: invalid conversion from 'void' to 'char'	18:55
djszapi	probably warnings are turned into errors	18:56
djszapi	and that is imho cool	18:56
djszapi	but anyway, show the code ..	18:56
tomma	in c++ that is invalid comversion?	18:56
djszapi	ZogG_laptop: you might need either a c style cast or reinterpret	18:57
djszapi	if gcc, probably c style cast is ok	18:57
ZogG_laptop	http://dpaste.org/Y2XuQ/	18:57
ZogG_laptop	djszapi: i get result from curl	18:58
ZogG_laptop	so i used some function to set it in memmorry	18:58
ZogG_laptop	now i need to get it to string	18:58
djszapi	ZogG_laptop: or use .c suffix	18:58
djszapi	I am not sure whether qtcreator forces g++ in every case, but if not: .c suffix should do	19:00
djszapi	if it does, just cast it	19:00
djszapi	btw, you can always check how it tries to build and reproduce it on command line in such cases to see.	19:02
tomma	-fpermissive allows that with g++ but i would use c-style casting	19:02
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djszapi	I would use .c suffix for a c program	19:03
djszapi	if c++, I would not use c style cast..	19:04
Piru	c++ is anal about types	19:05
ZogG_laptop	it was simplest c program i kinda wrote (lurking in exmaples) and it works, but now i'm trying to get the qml gui for it so i need c++ =(	19:06
djszapi	why don't you use new then instead of the malloc thingie ?	19:07
djszapi	and you do not need this casting at all then	19:07
ZogG_laptop	djszapi: i think my c++ and c knowledge too poor =\	19:08
djszapi	char *data = new char[BUFFER_SIZE];	19:09
djszapi	and then delete [] data; instead of the free stuff	19:09
tomma	nice document http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/mixing-c-and-cpp.html	19:09
Piru	extern "C"	19:10
djszapi	why would he mix C and C++ ?	19:10
djszapi	clean C++ is enough imho	19:10
Piru	because c++ is stupid :)	19:10
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djszapi	ZogG_laptop: Also, make sure QByteArray/QString is not better for you than raw char* ;)	19:12
ZogG_laptop	djszapi: slowly slowly	19:14
ZogG_laptop	i want to make something working and than to improve it	19:15
ZogG_laptop	why can't i just use my c app in qtcreator to make qml gui =(((((((((((	19:16
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jonni	nice, I got my sourcecode.request dvd today, and indeed it seems to contain pr 1.1 kernel sources.	19:23
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tomma	is there lots of custom opensource stuff?	19:24
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Piru	well someone should put the stuff online :)	19:25
jonni	seems to have all the gpl sources that product uses.	19:26
jonni	most likely someone will do that soon	19:26
tomma	i mean the kernel	19:26
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djszapi	jonni: as for me, it was not a question Nokia is fair or not in this question	19:33
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* npm wonders if someone made an nfc screen lock for n9 -- and stick the nfc tag on your keychain		19:42
Corsac	well, that means you have to have your keychain at 2cm from your n9	19:43
npm	and if you're dumb enough to stick you keys in same pocket as phone...	19:43
npm	not all the time. just to unlock the screen	19:43
npm	easier than typing in a PIN	19:43
npm	just touch your keys to the phone	19:44
npm	i guess i'm finally getting an nfc capable phone eventually (c7) but wrong os for this idea	19:45
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ZogG_laptop	i did it and compiiled app but still no go =)	19:56
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ZogG_laptop	jonni: hey	20:01
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ZogG_laptop	damn that bug is F annoying and i would NEVR understand why Nokia releases only PR updates and no small fixes and especially BUG fixes	20:05
ZogG_laptop	this politic is idiotic	20:05
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frals	what bug?	20:07
ZogG_laptop	frals i got that bug when twitter account was unable to connect	20:08
DocScrutinizer	@all: please don't get this /topic wrong, for me that reads like "I know it, but I can't talk about that due to NDA", and "you just violated the non-NDA-topic", and quoting obviously private or classified stuff, all will cause banhammer. If somebody feels like sth's wrong in this chan, they approach a CHANOP and don't discuss it publicly in this chan. If somebody approaches some other member and threats him for whatever reason, the	20:09
DocScrutinizer	victim also approaches CHANOP and asks for help.	20:09
ZogG_laptop	so i reseted all accounts. now if i reboot all passwords are reset everytime and time to time i canot connect to skype or twitter so i need to delte account and re-add it, for twitter i need as well go to site and invoke n9 app access and that re-add account	20:10
ZogG_laptop	DocScrutinizer: what was that about?	20:10
DocScrutinizer	we seen a ressurection of the rather weird "and no NDA stuff here" part in topic	20:11
ZogG_laptop	what is NDA?	20:12
DocScrutinizer	~nda	20:12
MohammadAG	So my N950 is probably on 22-6	20:12
infobot	I'm not allowed to tell you	20:12
ZogG_laptop	not discuss a...	20:12
MohammadAG	Should I update it?	20:12
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: yes	20:12
DocScrutinizer	non disclosure agreement	20:12
MohammadAG	Non Disclosure Agreement	20:12
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: did you get it?	20:12
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop: It's in jerusalem	20:12
DocScrutinizer	means nuttin	20:13
DocScrutinizer	I stll say it gets lost on last 100m	20:13
ZogG_laptop	DocScrutinizer: yeah i have something to tell you than about topic but i can't coz of NDA =)	20:13
MohammadAG	So I can't get my hands on it till another 11 hours	20:13
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer: It's home	20:13
DocScrutinizer	ZogG_laptop: you said "jehova"	20:14
DocScrutinizer	STONE HIM	20:14
ZogG_laptop	jehova?	20:14
DocScrutinizer	life of brian	20:14
ZogG_laptop	u confussing me	20:14
DocScrutinizer	ZogG_laptop: everybody saying "NDA" in this channel gets kicked!	20:15
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		20:15
*** DocScrutinizer was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)		20:16
ZogG_laptop	ndb	20:16
ZogG_laptop	ndd	20:16
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ZogG_laptop	ndf	20:16
ZogG_laptop	=)	20:16
ZogG_laptop	sometimes i don't get you people	20:16
MohammadAG	NDA	20:18
* ZogG_laptop throughs iphone at MohammadAG		20:18
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer: Its not working	20:18
MohammadAG	I'm already typing from one thanks	20:18
MohammadAG	I got really fast typing on iOS's virtual keyboard	20:19
ZogG_laptop	there is irc cient on iphone? =)	20:19
MohammadAG	It's way too good when you have haptic feedback on it	20:19
MohammadAG	Yes obviously	20:19
ZogG_laptop	haptic?	20:19
DocScrutinizer	on a related topic: yoh dawg, heard you're complaining about me being rude to you, so I will kick you so you can complain about me being rude while you're complaining about me being rude	20:19
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: can it call?	20:19
daniel_o	hrhrhrhr DocScrutinizer	20:20
ZogG_laptop	DocScrutinizer: =*	20:20
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MohammadAG	There's also ssh, bash, xterm coreutils and apt	20:20
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop: Vibra on key press and buttons but not anything else	20:20
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: i know just kiding	20:20
MohammadAG	Like harmattan but better	20:20
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MohammadAG	We should add that to hildon in Fremantle/cssu	20:21
MohammadAG	As an option of course	20:21
ZogG_laptop	add what? vibra?	20:21
MohammadAG	Just requires patching libhildon	20:21
MohammadAG	Vibra on button press, not screen press	20:21
MohammadAG	So scrolling won't toggle vibra, pressing a button will	20:22
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: like on n9(dunno about n950)	20:22
MohammadAG	Yes, but that's half baked	20:22
ZogG_laptop	why is that?	20:22
MohammadAG	Not all buttons do it, the dialer does	20:22
MohammadAG	Not sure if that changed	20:23
yipdw	the dialer in PR1.1 has haptic feedback	20:23
yipdw	or at least what I'm running does	20:23
MohammadAG	yipdw: What else? Nothing	20:23
MohammadAG	The dialer had it since 1.0	20:23
yipdw	MohammadAG: the Swype and English US onscreen keyboards	20:23
MohammadAG	yipdw: What I meant is it doesn't work across all the up	20:24
MohammadAG	UX	20:24
yipdw	I don't disagree	20:24
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: typing msg now and it has vibra on keys	20:24
yipdw	I'm just stating facts	20:24
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop: An MButton doesn't vibrate	20:24
MohammadAG	A QML Button doesn't vibrate	20:24
MohammadAG	It's not universal like on iOS (via a custom tweak of course)	20:25
MohammadAG	We can do it on hildon too	20:25
MohammadAG	Patch libhildon and ship in CSSU	20:25
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Jare	oh great, neither user nor root is allowed to create symbolic links	20:47
ZogG_laptop	symbolik links are for ...	20:57
ieatlint	Jare: are you by chance trying to do that in MyDocs?	20:58
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augustl	been googling around for installing android ICS on a N9	22:08
augustl	anyone got some links for me? :)	22:08
ajalkane	ICS on a 1ghz processor? It might be a world of pain?	22:08
augustl	really? hmm	22:08
augustl	it's made for dual core?	22:09
ajalkane	Looking at the common Android hardware, N9 seems kinda underperforming. Just my impression.	22:09
augustl	worth a shot :)	22:10
augustl	getting meego back onto the n9 might prove hard if I regret, though, right?	22:10
ajalkane	There's flasher out there if you have windows machine, you can always get it back	22:11
augustl	ah, that's good	22:11
augustl	is ICS released though? Can't seem to find it	22:11
ajalkane	Sources are at least. I haven't heard anyone porting it to N9.	22:11
ieatlint	uh, just as a note, i wouldn't blindly assume the flasher will work like that	22:13
ieatlint	i honestly don't know, but i would not bet on it allowing you to simply revert	22:13
augustl	isn't that how flashers work? hmm	22:14
ieatlint	there's a lot more that goes on than simply sending over the system image	22:14
DocScrutinizer	indeed	22:14
ajalkane	ieatlint: if you can flash from Mer back to Harmattan, why wouldn't it work from Android back to Harmattan?	22:14
augustl	should get a new phone I guess.. Tired of waiting for polish that'll probably never come..	22:14
DocScrutinizer	should work	22:14
augustl	ah I should definitely test Mer too	22:15
ieatlint	ajalkane: i'm really not saying it won't.. i'm just saying you should look into it more before you hose yourself	22:15
ajalkane	ieatlint: sure, good warning... I think augustl will be the first line in testing this ;)	22:16
ajalkane	I wouldn't myself consider switching to Android from Harmattan	22:16
ajalkane	I can imagine trying out Mer	22:16
ieatlint	i suspect the driver issues will prove problematic for android	22:17
ajalkane	yeah	22:17
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ajalkane	Looking at where Ndroid for N900 is, it can be a rocky road	22:18
augustl	what kind of driver issues? Sound, graphics, typical linux driver problems?	22:18
Stskeeps	the hardest thing won't be the drivers, the hardest thing will be operating blindly	22:18
Stskeeps	you can't do a fbcon and you can't do auto fb update mode	22:19
Stskeeps	(that easily)	22:19
Stskeeps	so it's really difficult to bootstrap in the first place	22:19
Corsac	grmbl, I don't have the PR1.1 flash image with me	22:19
augustl	Stskeeps: what's fbcon and auto fb update mode?	22:20
Stskeeps	framebuffer console	22:21
Stskeeps	and the fact you have to tell kernel, manually, to update the display	22:21
augustl	been reading http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/7/2585779/android-history, got me hooked on Android..	22:22
augustl	how "ready" is Mer? Can I browse the web, place calls and send SMS with it?	22:23
Stskeeps	you mean Nemo, Mer's just a core	22:23
Stskeeps	and yes, phonecalls/sms work	22:23
augustl	ah	22:23
ajalkane	augustl: if you think Harmattan is not polished, you won't like Nemo/Mer.	22:23
Stskeeps	probably, yeah	22:23
augustl	hehe	22:23
Stskeeps	but at least Nemo's OSS	22:23
Stskeeps	you can polish the turd yourself	22:23
Stskeeps	:)	22:23
ajalkane	haha yeah	22:24
ajalkane	gives something more meaningful to do for evenings than drinking beer	22:24
augustl	are there any other options I could check out?	22:24
ajalkane	Beer, games and hookers.	22:24
Stskeeps	blackjack	22:25
augustl	I'll come back in 10 years	22:26
augustl	basically I want xfce for a smartphone	22:26
augustl	by that I mean something linux-y and simple and clean that is very stable	22:26
Stskeeps	yeah, it sounds good at first but UI wise it's a nightmare	22:26
Stskeeps	and battery wise	22:26
ajalkane	I'd say Nemo/Mer is you best hope. So if you're not overly enthusiastic about beer, games and hookers, I recommend to start hacking away with Nemo	22:27
ajalkane	Android is quite loosely linuxy	22:28
rcg	are there open source implementation to do the very basics like telephony, sms, and websurfing via 3g yet?	22:28
rcg	*implementations	22:28
Stskeeps	rcg: sure, Nemo	22:28
rcg	great	22:28
augustl	indeed.. That's why I don't want a transformer prime. I like my emacs ;)	22:28
Stskeeps	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxQLIjcYAMU	22:29
rcg	i'm just asking.. i only follow nemo very loosely	22:29
rcg	Stskeeps: i think you are quite active there.. is there some summary site that keeps track of new features, working features?	22:30
Stskeeps	rcg: wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo and follow our release announcements	22:30
augustl	that video shows Nemo has the same major annoyance that the N9 meego has.. You don't get good feedback when clicking and app icon.	22:30
augustl	(imo, of course)	22:30
Stskeeps	augustl: send a patch, though i think that image is a bit slower than i've seen startups	22:31
rcg	Stskeeps: great :)	22:31
ajalkane	Harmy's one disadvantage is the slow loading of apps that use QML. Unless you provide a splasher image it seems too slow. I hope they can optimize it a bit	22:32
rcg	Stskeeps: and well.. honestly, do you think it'll work out this time with creating a complete open source cellphone os?	22:32
ajalkane	But probably by the time they have optimized it the CPUs in smartphones have outran the optimizations already	22:32
augustl	I don't mind slow startup that much. It's more that you should get _some_ indication that you successfully launched the app. Like a spinner, or like iOS that immediately shows the splash screen	22:32
augustl	on N9 even if there's a splash you don't get to see it immediately	22:32
rcg	sorry for the lack of confidence ;)	22:32
Stskeeps	rcg: my main aim is the Core, i believe in open source cores, hardware adaptations not so much, UIs.. well, let's see	22:32
rcg	ic	22:33
Stskeeps	nemo isn't half bad and much further than i've seen things be	22:33
Corsac	gngn, “can't connect to usb while your memory is in use”	22:33
ajalkane	splash screens are displayed immediately. The problem is, it's up to the app developer to specify it, and many just skip providing it (including me :)	22:33
Corsac	ok, but who uses it?	22:33
rcg	and one could run it on n9?	22:33
ajalkane	You can run Nemo on N9, I believe there's images already.	22:35
ajalkane	If not, it's in the plans	22:35
ajalkane	But it's probably not end user ready just yet, but for tinkerers could very well be	22:36
Stskeeps	we can always use more hands	22:36
ajalkane	My understanding is, that if you tried Meego CE on N900 in spring/summer, then you'll find Nemo better than that	22:36
ajalkane	So it's progressing...	22:37
rcg	well.. i consider myself a tinkerer.. but i would like to have something to mess with that i can take with me on a regular basis and at least do the very basics like phone, sms, and web surfing	22:37
dm8tbr	that we reached at midsummer release	22:38
ajalkane	Nemo can do that	22:38
dm8tbr	it was kind of the 'story' we wanted to complete for it	22:38
rcg	sounds great	22:38
Corsac	could someone with access to a windows give me a link to PR1.1 firmware image?	22:38
ajalkane	I hate the word story in development context :). Anyone know where it originates from?	22:39
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dm8tbr	ajalkane: scrum uses this a lot in the way of 'user story'	22:39
ajalkane	dm8tbr: ah right, thanks	22:40
dm8tbr	also note that I put it in '' in the first place :)	22:40
ajalkane	dm8tbr: I noticed it, which reminded me of my distaste as you put it in quotes. Without the quotes I would have been steaming with rage but not saying anything :)	22:41
dm8tbr	although I do think those 'user stories' are good metaphors for what is the goal. from the developer perspective they can be quite awkward. (I'm a project damager at work, can you tell?)	22:42
dm8tbr	but back to the topic at hand :)	22:42
ajalkane	I don't know what's wrong with use case.	22:42
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dm8tbr	they just needed to reinvent the name I think	22:43
ajalkane	User story is still somewhat okay, it doesn't get my rage-a-meter to the red	22:43
dm8tbr	ah, there is also the marketing 'story', yeah that makes my BS-o-meter asplode	22:43
ajalkane	omg	22:44
DocScrutinizer	user story is a kinda retarded term	22:44
DocScrutinizer	use case is precise and to the point	22:44
rcg	well.. if you want a retarded term.. -> monetizing enabler	22:44
ajalkane	But it really gets my rage-a-meter to boiling point when people are talking about 'stories' in development context	22:45
Stskeeps	meh, HCI	22:45
ajalkane	I'm not sure what's the problem, but I've not been enraged by the "ecosystem" as much as I was in spring. Maybe over-exposure. Maybe it has not been spouted so much recently.	22:47
dm8tbr	I'm sure they'll be soon back with an all new ecosystem story to shove in your face... :-þ	22:49
ajalkane	God save us all... can someone scrub that term from the irc logger buffer lets no CEO gets wind of the term?	22:50
ajalkane	* lest	22:50
dm8tbr	I could do that for #mer and #nemomobile, but not here, not my bot ;)	22:51
Stskeeps	dm8tbr: just as long as you don't start editing mailing list archives, urgh..	22:52
Stskeeps	:P	22:52
dm8tbr	mwahahaha	22:52
ajalkane	I approve all editing of mailing list archives that include the words "ecosystem story"	22:52
SpeedEvil	Maybe just that the comparative 'ecosystems' are so toxic.l	22:52
Corsac	hmhm, is there a way to not display the character at all when entering a password?	23:05
dm8tbr	also if you use swipe and there is a dictionary word in your password, it will show as a whole for a second ;)	23:06
dm8tbr	swype, sorry	23:06
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Corsac	hmhm, interesting, there are 3 keys for the luks-encrypted signon files	23:36
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DocScrutinizer	we got even THREE bots here	23:44
DocScrutinizer	literally nobody is able to scub them all	23:44
DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	23:44
infobot	DocScrutinizer: :)	23:44
Corsac	DocScrutinizer: hmhm btw was there finally a way to run untrusted binaries on developer mode or not?	23:45
DocScrutinizer	err as user I think you can run whatever you want	23:45
DocScrutinizer	I refused to upgrade to latest though, so better ask sb else ;-D	23:46
DocScrutinizer	esp since my not so latest version is convinently rooted	23:46
DocScrutinizer	so I couldn't even tell for that version	23:47
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