IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2011-11-16

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ZogG_laptopit's sounds nice but wouldn't do it for wallpaper app even if it's code sometimes more complicated than even games00:00
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artemmaZogG_laptop: why?00:03
ZogG_laptopi don't know00:05
ZogG_laptopi wouldn't pay for it00:05
artemmawithout in-app purchasing I'd sell it for something like 1 euro00:05
ZogG_laptopi would buy nice game and not even coz of grafics but nice idea00:06
artemmait definitely should be less expensive than actually useful apps or good games00:06
ZogG_laptopand usefull apps00:06
ZogG_laptopi don't thinl i'll ever buy program with subscription payment though00:06
ZogG_laptopit's not about how money00:06
artemmaabout subscription, for now it is just an idea about trying it00:06
ZogG_laptopcoz even 5 euro is cheap00:06
ZogG_laptopbut the idea to pay for something maybe pretty but actually something you can do yourself even change wallpaper by dowloading pictures yourself00:07
artemmathe idea is to charge for something good00:08
artemmaand improving00:08
artemmaI am not sure where I end up with00:08
artemmabut the idea is to provide good search, tags, comments, scheduling, etc00:08
artemmamaybe mixing with pics from your own gallery00:08
artemmaclever caching against battery use, entertaining on every device unlock (and not jsut nce an hour) etc00:09
artemmajust changing wallpaper once an hour may not be good enough for charging, ineed00:09
ZogG_laptopi just think utilities and that sort of apps should be opensource00:12
apeleteZogG_laptop: by opensource do you mean free ?00:13
ZogG_laptopno i mean opensource00:14
apeleteI think I agree with that too00:14
ZogG_laptop and that mostly free by the way00:14
ZogG_laptopbut i know developer needs to eat00:15
ZogG_laptopso i see donation is good option00:15
nix-cyrusbtw any korg emulator for N9? maybe I just don't know about it.. or there is only VMPK&FluidSynth?00:15
ZogG_laptopthink of world without linux / vim and so on00:15
ZogG_laptopnix-cyrus: there is this guy on g+ who poerted pretty few emulators00:15
ZogG_laptopi think it's RST38h00:16
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apeleteopensource does not mean free, I don't mind paying for software _if_ I have support (updates and help if I have trouble using it) _and_ it is actually useful00:16
apeletebut I see your point, we got here because it was free in the first place00:17
M4rtinKrzr: well, I plan to push the GTK package to, just to see what it does :)00:17
M4rtinKif it compiles, etc.00:17
M4rtinKthere are still some issues though - virtual keyboard is not triggered, severely hampering usability on the N900:18
M4rtinKand a user reported that the dev packages don't work for some reason00:18
ZogG_laptopapelete: not only free but everyone can add and improve00:19
apeletebut we (the linux community) will have to think about business models if we want to push free software writing further into daytime activity00:19
ZogG_laptopasterisk apache ngix00:19
ZogG_laptopi need to go as my battery is dying00:20
apeleteI'll be here from now on I think00:20
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apeletehope to see you next time :)00:21
M4rtinKrzr: I would also not mind porting some additional packages but all those esoteric build errors are getting a bit on my nerves :)00:21
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npmM4rtinK: would this help your GTK virtual keyboard issue:
_MeeGoBot_Bug 18619 maj, Medium, ---, x2rich, RELE FIXED, Virtual Keyboard does not appear for GTK+ apps (meegotouch-inputmethodbridges)00:48
npmwow, meegobot is here too...  cool00:48
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thpok, so i came up with a crappy shell script instead00:50
M4rtinKnpm: interesting !00:50
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M4rtinKanybody knows if Harmattan uses meegotouch-inputmethodbridges or something else to handle text input ?00:52
npmeven more fun is somewhere in there some simple qml frob to make the keyboard transparent (which it is on my meego 1.2 exopc tablet, along w/ Keyboard input for GTK+)00:52
M4rtinKalso, the version I have packaged comes from Fremanlte and is quite ancient so the question is if this would work with it00:53
npm(unlike most people's exopc meego's that sucked mine actually works proper courtesy of and a lot of hacking)00:53
M4rtinKisn't GTK+ in the MeeGo base actually ?00:53
npmthus the bug if VKB don't work00:53
npmand apparently, i'm seeing meego bugs fixed, despite being dead, but i don't know where they end up00:54
M4rtinKit's quite funny that Harmattan is about the only platform without easily available GTK :D00:54
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npmbut hey, at least intel offered a bailout to 4tiitoo after running them off the meego-cliff like lemmings :-) :
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M4rtinKwell, I would say the lesson of this debacle is01:01
M4rtinKto never trust an os/platform that is not developed transparently in the open01:01
M4rtinKinternal bugtrackers, private emails, closed door meetings, hidden roles -> run for the hills :)01:02
M4rtinKat least Mer + Nemo seem to be progressing quite nicely this time01:02
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* DocScrutinizer moans about confusion Nokia creates with 3.712 zillion firmware variants of 40-4 and each of those referenced by such nonsense like "variant black" "variant cyan" etc - WTF has color of case to do with firmware?01:42
DocScrutinizeralso both tmo and fmc threads are unbearable regarding the S/N and level of confusion spread as good advice there01:43
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DocScrutinizerreally, this is disgusting - makes me hate the device even though I don't need to flash right now01:44
Milhouse@DocScrutinizer: It's a policy Nokia have followed with coloured Symbian devices, no idea what relevance the colour has, unless of course some firmware came with different default themes to reflect the colour of the device (though I doubt it).01:45
DocScrutinizernot on N901:46
MilhouseNot to mention, most users are not meant to even see the different firmware "variants" as NSU should update devices automagically01:46
DocScrutinizernfc what's NSU01:47
MilhouseNokia Software Updater01:47
DocScrutinizermust ne a redmond crap related thing01:47
MilhouseDocScrutinizer: Nope, pre-dates Feb1101:47
DocScrutinizerso in which .deb can I find NSU? or is it a .rpm?01:48
MilhouseDocScrutinizer: For flashing?01:48
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MilhouseAh, sorry. Yes, it's a Windows executable (I get your Redmond reference now)01:49
DocScrutinizerhalley:~ # zypper search for_flashing01:49
DocScrutinizerNo packages found.01:49
* DocScrutinizer wants to go back to 1971 and play with intel400401:51
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SpeedEvilSome people may be slightly taking the piss.01:55
GeneralAntillesHoly shit:
SpeedEvilYeah - that's awesome.01:58
DocScrutinizerfsck vimeo01:59
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DocScrutinizerwhen a 3 y o browser doesn't show the page, or even segfaults (nokia's awesome site), I feel like going berserk02:01
augustlhmm, I haven't gotten any notifications about the OTA update yet on my N9..02:02
augustlI've used developer mode a few times. It's disabled now. But perhaps that taints my phone to not receive automatic updates?02:02
augustlis there something I can do to check if my phone is updateable? And perhaps also force it to update now, instead of waiting for the OTA?02:03
DocScrutinizergo for the funny flashing game02:03
MilhouseDocScrutinizer: YouTube version if it helps:
DocScrutinizerplease read *the whole threads* to reach a state of perfect confusion02:05
DocScrutinizermy completely uneducated recommendation was to go for the NDT version for the correct storage size02:06
DocScrutinizerseems it's the genuine one02:06
DocScrutinizersome say you can flash to any sub-variant, even from branded to NDT02:07
augustlwell that sucks02:09
augustlI bought an N9. They announced an update. I haven't got it. WTF02:10
jabisthe update was held back after 001 region got bricked phones and such02:10
jabisaugustl: ^02:11
jabisnot a succesfull OTA when so many angry customers - which rovio'll prolly turn into a new hit game x)02:12
augustlwhy is Apple the only company in the universe with clear intentions and communications..02:16
DocScrutinizerMilhouse: thanks02:16
Milhouseaugustl: I believe it's because they have a plan.02:18
augustlI bet there's no information about the pulled update on though02:18
augustlor that the update even exists :)02:18
augustlsomething like would be nice02:19
augustldoesn't have to be as fancy as :)02:20
MilhouseAlthough to be honest, Apple aren't perfect either. Look at the radio silence over their latest iPhone updates and the continued problems people are having. Impressive though how easy their update process is compared with Nokia, and that they can get it out globally to everyone all at once, none of this staggered bs you get with Nokia.02:21
augustlhmm, says an update doesn't exist02:21
augustlso it's _mentioned_ even if the information is wrong/outdated02:21
Milhousei like that url, seems quite appropriate...
augustlMilhouse: that's because apple love secrecy though02:21
augustlas soon as information is public it's trivial to find and obtain02:22
jabisaugustl: some peeps mentioned that the UK site had NSU - still nothing on 001 region (northern europe) tho x)02:22
jabisone of the bigger problems I heard was that certain regions that were blocked from harmattan repos, so when they needed to upgrade the rest of the (bundled) packages, they were getting 404 error (one reason more to flash it instead)02:24
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npmoh goody, VoiceToGoog is finally unblocked in china ( #51 China 1 )03:52
npmmy program03:53
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npmyeah, it allowed voice search of youtube, which is blocked.03:54
SpeedEvilThat looks neat.03:54
npmit is!03:54
npmtry it03:54
npmcontribute (GPL)03:54
SpeedEvilZigbee is annoying.03:54
SpeedEvilIn that it's anti-GPL standard.03:54
npmto get unblocked, i did this:
npmeven though i was told i needed a separate version for china, or rather that would be preferable03:56
DocScrutinizerooh, blocked in ovi store?03:56
npmin the future, i want to do this to allow for arbitrary programs to be launched03:56
npmDocScrutinizer: only for release 0.1.0 release 0.2.1 is available *everywhere*03:56
npmand has been DLd in 51 countries03:56
SpeedEvilHow many downloads?03:57
npm790 since Nov 4/503:57
npmother weird statistic03:58
npm#1 Unresolved 98.7 %03:58
npm#2 Nokia N9 1.1 %03:58
npm#3 Nokia N900 0.1 %03:58
npmhow did they get it running on n900??03:58
SpeedEvilIs unresolved n950?03:58
npm(pretty cool if they did... maybe i should just load up the deb and see )03:59
SpeedEvilOr is it just broken?03:59
npmthat's the other weird thing.03:59
npmi can't imagine theres 0.987 * 790 N950's out there03:59
npmand i'm curious to find out from people like thp how many DLs they get for progs like gpodder03:59
npmjust so as to get an idea of how many devices are out there. (or maybe some other popular program in the "home" page)04:00
SpeedEvilyou should have +1 on n950 now04:01
npmi'm sort of hoping it's "just broken" because it would be sad if nokia hadn't moved all those units as n9s04:01
SpeedEvilAnd it worked for my first test string. :)04:01
npmnow you can switch languages and play it back in a funny foreign accent04:02
npmfrench, german, dutch are pretty funny04:02
npmas is chinese04:02
SpeedEvilIn a way the app depresses me - though not because of the way it's coded or designed.04:02
SpeedEvilSimply that I can't have - most of 20 years after voice recognition sort-of-worked on the PC - similar software on my linux hardware.04:03
SpeedEvilSome of which might be phones.04:03
npmyou can04:03
npmvoicetogoog runs on fedora04:03
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SpeedEvilSure - but it's just sending a wav to google.04:03
npmalthough i broke it recently and need to disable GPS stuff when there's no GPS hardware present04:03
SpeedEvilWhich has obvious issues if there isn''t any internet.04:03
npmoh, you mean that voice rec isn't widely avail.04:04
npmgoog's stuff is some of the best AI out there04:04
npmthey have the top AI professors (some of mine) working there04:04
SpeedEvilThe app is awesome, but for some things, more limited voice recognition - like I was using on dragon dictate in 1998 or so - would be just fine.04:04
npmand they seem to train it on porn :-)04:04
npmbecause whever it can't understand something, it comes out kinda filthy, or just says "new york"04:05
* SpeedEvil imagines a horde of AI professors at keyboards with headphones.04:06
npmactually, there's an online dragon that works quite nice, on the right platform.04:06
npmone of the things is that it seems to have "search result" and trending concepts "built in" so that you can say names and it gets the spelling correct a lot of the time04:07
npmand it is undoubtedly "learning" from what people are asking for in search04:07
npmi expect it to become fully aware one of these days :-)04:08
SpeedEvilnpm: Initially - the 'localisation' button is blank.04:08
npmhmmm. what is your $LANG04:09
SpeedEvilNeat app!04:09
SpeedEvilEnglish-UK, I think04:10
SpeedEvilWhere would I find this in the UI04:10
npmwhat happens if you long-touch the localization button04:10
npmdoes it still come up blank?04:10
SpeedEvilI got a list of flags, and I picked one, and now it shows last selected04:10
npmacutally, if you do the "about voicetogoog" menu entry and hit "ok" to compose mail to'll print lang info. if you want to mail it to me that would help04:11
SpeedEvilActually - ...04:11
npmas in just let "about" create a mail draft and click "send"04:11
SpeedEvilOk - can do04:11
npmi should actually check that  account to see if i've got mail.04:12
npma few other tips (needs instruction manual)04:12
npmyou can long-touch items in detail view and it'll play back the note04:12
DocScrutinizerMEH - Store: "problem on opening this page. Lost connection or connection too slow. Check connection settings and try later"04:12
npmmultiple select items in order and hit play or speak and it'll play back in order, like a playlist04:12
npmgo to map view while it's happening and you can watch your "track" as you said different things, w' the transcribed words poping up04:13
npmand you can toggle between map/detail by long-touching the menu04:13
SpeedEvilAnnoying - I now hit the same issue I've hit before - it's not recognising my google mail account.04:13
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npmbleh. spoke too soon on china04:14
npm"Content failed in China because it contains a few options which China user can't access, such as "Youtube"."04:14
SpeedEvilOk - mail away, I think.04:18
npmSpeedEvil: well unless you're an italian woman saying "vai a milano" , i haven't received that mail yet :-)04:22
DocScrutinizerthis article can't get downloaded, please try again04:23
npmwhat are you dling?04:23
SpeedEvilnpm: Odd. It said it sent.04:24
npmwell gmail could be taking its time04:26
SpeedEvilUI fail on the mail interface.04:27
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SpeedEvilHad to explicitly tell it to send.04:27
npmgot it04:29
npmthat should work. but maybe you found a bug (doh)04:30
npmlet me try that04:30
npmSpeechLangModel#onCompleted(): system language 'en_GB' --> 'en-GB'  ... file:///opt/voicetogoog/qml/voicetogoog/LangButton.qml:83: TypeError: Result of expression 'recognizerLanguageModel.get(recognizerLanguageModel.defaultIdx)' [undefined] is not an object.04:35
npmyep bug04:35
SpeedEvilI need to select something else before I can select en_gb04:35
npmi was so busy testing all the other languages that i forgot the main language04:35
npmthe weird thing is that on mine, it came up en_gb anywasy and worked.04:36
npmbut the uninited var is the problem... well there's always the next version... will phaps be soon because of the china /youtube issue04:37
npmanybody have suggestions on making a *.pro and qtc_packaging/debian_harmattan/rules spit out two different .deb's with everything the same other than say one QML file04:38
npmi guess i have to have one for china and one for the rest of the world04:38
DocScrutinizer(stern voice)04:40
npmSpeedEvil: be happy to know that you've got the only language producing that bug04:41
npm env LANG="en_AU" /opt/voicetogoog/bin/voicetogoog04:41
npmworks fine04:41
DocScrutinizerwould it actually auto-trigger actions like searching in google?04:42
npmit's just the default language, i forgot to initiualize something04:42
npmnot "auto" because it's not siri.04:42
DocScrutinizeror do I have to select those from menu?04:42
npmbut rather you say something and then decide what you want to do with it04:42
npmfor one you can select multiple items and have those all become part of the "data"04:42
npmso for example you can have an introduction and different parts and include them in an email without having to redictate the entire thing each time04:43
DocScrutinizer"mouse... err touchscreen - how obsolete :-S" ;-P04:44
npmi'm not sure i like the idea of "siri" -- as it can't possibly understand language or intent. it just does some stupid pattern recotgnition04:44
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npmit is more geeky and "tool like" than siri04:44
npmplus you can't edit or select multiple items in siri. or plot utterances on a map, or see when/where you said it04:45
SpeedEvilSeen the siri hacks?04:46
SpeedEvilDoes need a sig though04:46
npma different app, perhaps using same infrastructure could be built to do "siri" like things04:46
DocScrutinizerwell, as long as it allows me to create the formula for transparent aluminium with like 25 keypresses err screentouches, as Scotty did ;-D04:46
npmyeah seen the hacks for siri. perhaps in the future there could be multiple back-ends04:47
DocScrutinizerI think I more want sth like a voice input to cmd line, so *I* decide what to do, not some AI04:48
SpeedEvilJob done.04:48
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npmDocScrutinizer: you can. just use voicetogoog, select what you want, do "copy selection to clipboard" and paste to your shell04:51
npmit even understands punctuation (e.g. "exclamation mark") and "smiley face"04:51
DocScrutinizeryes, I just need a macro for that04:51
DocScrutinizerI.E. all on one button, or even on speech input timeout04:52
npmso that it automatically put it in the clipboard as soon as you said it?04:52
npmi had that originally, but i found it annoying as it would erase stuff on the clipboard i needed04:52
DocScrutinizeryes, and then automatically copied into xterm04:52
npmjust don't say "rm -rf /" :-()04:52
DocScrutinizersure it has to be an optional alternative operation mode04:52
npmwhat i want to do at some point is make voicetogoog's underpinnings a "widget"04:53
npmso you can stick a little microphone icon on the VKB, or in your apps, and have it insert text like a keystroke04:53
npmwas planning on adding it as a icon next to the search icon in
npmand then not distributing that app in china :-)04:55
DocScrutinizerit's FOSS, no?04:56
DocScrutinizerfeel like getting my hands dirty :-D04:57
npmgo to "about voicetogoog" and hit ok so it drafts me a mail and ask for source04:57
DocScrutinizerhey, ok04:57
npmi'll put it up on at some point pretty soon.04:58
DocScrutinizerthough I doubt this will work on this device, that has no mail account configured04:58
npmheh just send it to NielsMayer at gmail dot com04:59
DocScrutinizer:nod: will do04:59
DocScrutinizersleep now04:59
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dm8tbrmood groaning07:40
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vsync_in the land of the harmattan, the beginning of this day seems cold08:11
ieatlintit's been cold since february, in fact08:34
gabriel9it starts snowing08:37
TronicSeems warmer than yesterday.08:40
TronicAlready plus 1.5 °C in Espoo. It was below zero same time yesterday.08:40
ieatlintsounds like a lovely country08:40
ieatlintwas 21c here today08:41
* Tronic gets his coat (the warm one).08:41
RST38hieatlint: it is winter where you are isn't it?08:41
ieatlintRST38h: not till december?08:42
ieatlinti'm in the northern hemisphere if that's what you're asking08:42
* ieatlint is in california08:42
RST38hah, California... ok08:43
RST38hNo seasons there.08:43
ieatlinttrue... small price to pay08:43
ieatlintalthough we do get a lot of snow in the winter in the mountains08:43
gabriel9snow is nice08:44
gabriel9i buyed snowboard08:44
gabriel9can't wait to try it08:44
ieatlintwas always a skier myself08:45
gabriel9it is the same in a way08:48
gabriel9you climb on the hill08:48
gabriel9and then slide :)08:48
ieatlintbah, climb... we have machines for that08:48
djszapiX-Fade morning, could you manage the system-services package ?08:51
gabriel9yea, and then we will use machines for sliding08:51
gabriel9this year i climbed one one mountain08:51
gabriel9and it was great08:51
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gabriel95h of climbing08:52
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ieatlinti love hiking08:59
ieatlintpassion of mine really08:59
ieatlintcalifornia is a great place for it.. have done hikes that have gained 700m in elevation, and a hike once that begin at 2.8k, went up to 3.2k, and then down to 2k in elevation... fun :P09:01
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elpuriieatlint: same here09:48
elpuriand i'm likely relocating to california in jan09:49
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elpuriany tips on good trails?-)09:49
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ieatlintdepends on where in california you're going09:57
elpuribay area but i'm willing to drive 3-4h for good climbs10:01
ieatlintsounds like we'll need to talk :)10:02
* ieatlint was born and raised in the bay area10:02
RST38hieatlint: -5c, http://
ieatlintwhere's that?10:03
RST38hNext time I hear about +21c, going to kill that kitten and put a vide on Youtube!10:03
RST38hieatlint: Moscow, last evening10:03
meceIt's +5C here. Almost summer.10:03
ieatlinti got lucky... not only did i grow up in a place that didn't know the word "winter", but the silicon valley was at my doorstep10:05
mecewas -5C during the night tho.10:05
meceCold weather makes you really appreciate the warm tho.10:05
djszapiwarm is for weaks :)10:06
mecedjszapi, haha exactly10:06
ieatlinthaha, i'll enjoy my weakness then by putting on a t-shirt and going for a walk10:08
meceieatlint, I wear t-shirts all year round10:09
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djszapimorning aheinecke10:11
aheineckemorning djszapi and no i did not look further into the soprano problem *blush* ;)10:11
ieatlintalright, i'm off to bed... have this annoying recurring group of people who insist i show up at specific times in exchange for monies10:12
djszapiaheinecke: there are news10:12
meceieatlint, depends on what I'm doing :)10:12
djszapiaheinecke: btw, what I wanted to ask: could you manage the accommodation in the same hotel for the KDE Harmattan sprint ?10:12
aheineckeyes i'm also booked there10:12
meceieatlint, if I'm just walking less than a block I'll just wear a t-shirt.10:12
djszapiaheinecke: nice, also the social event will be on Friday evening, not Sunday10:13
meceieatlint, unless it's raining or snowing wet snow.10:13
djszapijust making sure you attend to the sprint already on Friday.10:13
ieatlintwell, i'll buy anyone who shows up to dev days in sf a drink :)10:13
meceieatlint, dry snow is not so bad. Wind and wet snow requires a jacket :)10:13
aheineckedjszapi: yes i'll be arriving at 11:50 or so at berlin hbf so i should be at the sprint location some time after10:14
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djszapiaheinecke: meh, I figured out the soprano issue ...10:26
djszapiX-Fade: found it ....10:27
aheineckedjszapi: so what was it?10:31
djszapicmake version..10:34
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djszapiaheinecke: I asked the responsible persons for the SDK 4 months ago to update the cmake version. They did not do it ..10:54
djszapiit should have already been there in PR 1.010:54
aheineckestill nasty that soprano does not have the required version, can you fix this upstream in soprano?10:55
djszapiaheinecke: even if we can, no chance to get a release.10:55
djszapiaheinecke: only thing we can do for now is to have a debian packaging patch10:55
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qronicI have to say that messing with on boot, you can't win time before aegis is sealed11:01
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lardman|homemorning all12:01
lardman|homeanyone managed to get video from the camera working in QML?12:01
lardman|homeI get this: virtual GstElement* QGstreamerGLTextureRenderer::videoSink() : Fallback to QVideoSurfaceGstSink since EGLImageTextureHandle is not supported12:02
xarcasslardman|home: I hope, you have already set up aegis manifest12:03
lardman|homeand the camera is active, as when I kill my app I hear the click of it switching off. No visible output though12:03
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djszapilardman|home: do you use high-level API, like multimedia kit ?12:03
djszapior raw device access ?12:03
lardman|homexarcass: yeah, I added these: GRP::video and GRP::pulse-access12:03
xarcasslardman|home: there was a thread on the about Video element and Camera element, can't remember exactly, but there was some clashing12:04
djszapilardman|home: if you use high-level qt interface, you should really never add those credentials.12:04
djszapiotherwise do not be surprised if OVI blocks your app for obvious reasons.12:04
lardman|homedjszapi: bit of both... QAbstractVideoSurface12:04
xarcassdjszapi: it wasn't working without them. at least in beta fw12:04
djszapilardman|home: that is a qt multimedia class, so you should remove those credentials.12:05
lardman|homeIs there an exampe code somewhere that actually works? I don't want to take photos (there's lots of qml camera examples), but need to grab video frames12:05
djszapisince qtmultimedia does the boiler plate for you.12:05
lardman|homedjszapi: ok, I get the same message without them12:05
djszapiexactly, you do not need those12:06
lardman|homeI have the same error no matter what's in the manifest12:06
djszapiyes, it is not manifest at all as you can see from the fallback message.12:06
lardman|homeyeah, well the message doesn't look like a failure, just a fallback12:06
lardman|homeso I wonder if it's a rendering issue as the camera seems to be active12:07
xarcasslardman|home: have you got Video and Camera QML elements instantiated in your app? this might be an issue12:07
lardman|homexarcass: nope12:07
lardman|homeI'm basing loosely on alterego's code here:
lardman|homeI guess I should look at how the qml camera component works and hack at that12:08
lardman|homeintercept the viewfinder frames12:08
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xarcasslardman|home: looks pretty low-level for me. i thought that's an QML issue. i'm giving up12:09
lardman|homexarcass: np, I'll add some debugging output and see if it's a rendering problem or not12:10
djszapilardman|home: send me your workhorse, and I can send it to the camera guys, if you wish.12:10
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lardman|homedjszapi: sure, I'll do a bit more hacking then push to svn12:11
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lardman|homethanks both of you, will report back in a bit12:12
* lardman|home must give baby back to hiswife and head to work12:12
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* djszapi is updating cmake..12:19
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razvanpetrudid aegis get more restrictive? I remember being able to delete stuff in /home/dev as root...13:24
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djszapiyes, it got.13:25
Termanaaegis get more restrictive? Imagine that...13:25
nid0is there any way to track down reliably what an n9 app list icon is for? I seem to have had one randomly appear that has no text, cant be directly deleted, and does nothing13:30
nid0usr/share/applications/ doesnt immediately seem to have any obviously out-of-place .desktop files that could be associated with it13:30
qronicyou can also check /home/user/.local/share/applications/13:32
nid0yeah nothing obvious there either :\13:33
nid0the icon in the app list is totally different to all the others, it doesnt even shade when clicked, it just does nothing whatsoever13:34
djszapisorry, but what installed that icon ?13:35
nid0I have no idea, I just noticed it there yesterday morning. It wasnt there the middle of the day previously, all I knowingly did between them was install a couple of pieces of software from ovi (which had their own correct working icons and which i've since removed) and updated the appsformeego client13:36
nid0the icon itself is a white squircle with a black background, and a white down arrow inside the squircle with a horizontal white line under it13:37
djszapiyou have the first step. Figure out what installs that ...13:37
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razvanpetrumaybe it's malware13:53
Hq`the icon comes with appsformeego client13:54
Hq`no idea what it is for13:54
CorsacI guess it's the one click installer, but aiui it shouldn't be displayed13:56
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Corsac is the desktop file content13:57
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macmaNsup folkities13:59
macmaNis there a thorough description somewhere on what the harmattan power saver mode exactly does behavior wise14:00
macmaNi think my main interest is background connections off vs power saver + background connections on14:00
macmaNpower saver effectively seems to disable bg conns14:01
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gabriel9is there any way to backup my os(navifirm, firmware) from N9?14:21
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gabriel9i see that there is a way to install new14:24
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DocScrutinizermacmaN: yes, in N9 local manual there is some description15:47
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DocScrutinizermeh, de_DE locale, so I'll translate as good as I can ;-D >>ACTIVATION OF POWER SAVER \ Forgot your charger? Activate power saver mode to extend remaining talk- and standby-time. You also can configure [...] [bla] automatically [blah] when batery low. [**now**:] In power saver mode: \ the phone does not at all or less frequently search for available WLAN networks \ unused connections get disconnected \ display brightness is reduced<<15:53
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macmaNyeah, i read the n9 i screen about it16:16
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macmaNit doesnt go deep enough re background connections, there seems to be some sort of a war between those two16:17
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macmaNwhich doesnt get reflected in the ui in a sensible way. trying to find out for sure if im understanding this correctly.16:17
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DocScrutinizererr, it seems pretty clear to me16:56
DocScrutinizerallow background connections is about setting up / keeping connections without user interaction triggering them, no? And power save mode is about *closing* background connections as soon as they aren't used anymore, I.E. when no more traffic16:57
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DocScrutinizerso the one is about allowing to establish a connection, while the other cares about closing it as soon as possible rather than keeping it up16:59
DocScrutinizermy take on it16:59
macmaNyeah doc, i agrees. yet in the UI they are both enabled at the same time. but for example device brightness gets hidden when you activate it. it feels like background connections toggle should also get hidden.17:00
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macmaNbut it doesnt, which creates the "so i keep wondering what is the most optimal battery/usability compromise" lingering thought in my way17:01
macmaNand also wonder whether being able to enable them both simultaneously is an oversight, rather than by design17:04
DocScrutinizerNB for GPRS it probably doesn't really work as advertised. I guess they still won't tear down GPRS login at all, just remove the default route and the GPRS network interface. From a device borne app POV that's almost the same, from a power savings POV you usually don't want to tear down GPRS login as the mere login doesn't eat much power at all (a lean ~3mA on N900 iirc) while it's actually the particular data TX bytes that ramps up the17:05
DocScrutinizerRF transmitter and thus cuts thru your battery much like a phonecall does. On a more general view if your carrier does nasty then your phone still may receive inbound data packets as long as logged in to GPRS APN, and those will need TX ramped up to NAK them, even when local network IF is down17:05
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DocScrutinizermacmaN: nah, enabling both makes perfect sense17:06
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macmaNi fail to see how, considering how background connections simply do not activate at all17:07
DocScrutinizermodulo the concerns about not *really* tearing down GPRS login17:07
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macmaNoh, i should probably also mention17:08
DocScrutinizerooh, so you say "power saving mode" blocks establishing background connections all together?17:08
macmaNthat i am referring to power saving mode = On, *not* %-based "Auto" activation mode17:08
macmaNyes exactly17:08
DocScrutinizergathered as much, yeah17:08
macmaNi can see how having both enabled makes sense in Auto mode, since you are able to use bgc until Auto kicks in17:09
DocScrutinizernow that's a bug then, as this is not what the help text says how PSM is suuposed to work17:09
macmaNbut if psav is on 100% of the time, bgc dont come on *at all*17:09
DocScrutinizerthat's a bug17:09
macmaNi guess i should put that fancy schmancy new harmattan bug tracker to good use17:10
DocScrutinizer>>unused connections get disconnected <<17:10
DocScrutinizerit clearly doesn't say >>background connections are blocked<<17:10
macmaNexcept actually i noticed that none of the apps are even able to trigger a connection17:10
DocScrutinizerthat's a bug17:11
DocScrutinizerwell, I need to readup for the definition of "background connection"17:11
fluxso is it a bug in functionality or user interface?17:11
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DocScrutinizerAIUI it should allow background connection getting established, in PSM17:12
fluxmacman, oh you mean applications you are explicitly running?17:12
macmaNflux: yes17:12
fluxforeground connections have worked for me in PSM17:12
fluxif those don't work, then indeed it sounds like a bug17:12
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fluxI've only used the automatically triggered PSM17:12
macmaNflux: yes, they have for me too when i used it in Auto mode17:12
macmaNi just started trying On today17:12
DocScrutinizershouldn't make a difference17:13
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DocScrutinizerNB PSM also does >>not at all or less frequently search for available WLAN networks << and >>reduce display brightness<< (that's why brightness control slider vanishes)17:14
DocScrutinizerso what *is* a "background connection" ?17:15
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macmaNwhatever it is, it is the only thing that allows gps to work normally for me17:16
macmaNusing foreground connections for gps based apps simply doesnt get any of the network help capability for location fix17:17
DocScrutinizerhaha, the "(I)" at internet->background-connection is pretty fuzzy and sounds exactly like PSM17:17
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DocScrutinizerthough the helptext is pretty unclear and fuzzy, it seems to me "allow background connections" basically means that non-interactive tasks like scheduled mail polling are allowed to establish a connection17:19
DocScrutinizerbut that'S only one of the 3 different implicit definitions on how this background-conn option works, in this one help-text page17:20
DocScrutinizerit's just the one def that makes most sense to me17:21
macmaNall i can say is that bgc enabled = wifi on all the time17:21
DocScrutinizeryes, that's obvious17:23
macmaNdunno, is it?17:23
DocScrutinizererr no17:23
macmaNi would expect bgc to mean that wifi gets triggered on and off17:23
macmaNwhenever a polling cycle occurs17:23
macmaNinstead, it just stays on17:24
DocScrutinizerit's plausible it stays on if you got an app that does "background" data traffic all the time17:24
DocScrutinizerthat's exactly how I read it as well17:24
macmaNright. except there shouldnt be such an app. aside from messaging accounts, which i have offline.17:25
macmaNthat just leaves the news feed.17:25
DocScrutinizerwell, no (damn confusing stuff), it shall shut down between poll cycles **if PSM enabled**17:25
razvanpetrubackground connection = always connected17:26
razvanpetruand no background connection = never connected :p17:26
DocScrutinizerbce == allow to *establish* new connection when needed17:26
DocScrutinizerpsm == tear down bc when not used anymore17:27
razvanpetrufrom observing the thing, I have no idea how it works, barely got it to work reasonably...17:27
razvanpetruand still, I have to manually connect to wifi, otherwise it's always connected to it17:27
macmaNthe first is actually the behavior with bgc disabled :)17:27
Corsacnote that connection in this case means the IP connection (wether wireless or gsm/3G), not the tcp/udp one made by an application17:28
DocScrutinizerthe fist?17:28
razvanpetruwell anyway, I'm happy to see that powersaver actually does something17:28
DocScrutinizerCorsac: sure17:28
Corsacbut on top of that you can set connections to automatic or not17:28
razvanpetruI wonder if it lowers brightness below the 20% of the settings slider which seems to be ineffective17:28
DocScrutinizerthe first?, even17:28
Corsacso if there's no connection set to automatic and BC are enabled, it'll popup a message each time, I guess17:28
macmaNDocScrutinizer: first = bce == allow to *establish* new connection when needed17:29
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macmaNahh no nm, i mixed foreground vs bgc17:29
macmaNsomebody should draw a fricking block diagram about this17:30
macmaNor a state diagram rather17:30
razvanpetruthat's what I was thinking :)17:30
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macmaNseriously, i need to kick fricking wordpress to the curb and install trac as my primary outside world communication platform17:31
macmaNwiki knowledge base, world accessible bug tracking, wiki diagram plugins, good wiki syntax for writing good content17:31
DocScrutinizerbtw the (I) suggests background connection means "new connection to establish while screen locked"17:32
macmaNnon-relation to that can be verified by just switching bgc on, and witnessing how connection is immediately triggered while your screen is still unlocked17:34
macmaNi doubt it waits for any actual app activity whatsoever17:34
macmaNnetwork activity*17:34
DocScrutinizerunless we read the source text (which isn't available I guess) we will never know for sure what it's actually doing17:37
DocScrutinizerand Nokia's helptext is confusing rather than helping17:37
macmaNim sure if a well written blog post style query was posted somewhere, perhaps we could persuade djzsapi or someone to dig some information up17:38
macmaNit shouldnt probably be a government secret type info17:38
macmaNyeah yeah i know, no need to comment further17:38
macmaNi still have hope17:38
DocScrutinizerno, but it would need both insight into the actually implemented algo as well as a willingness to write a clear crisp explanation of what it does and how it works17:39
DocScrutinizerI'd raher hope for somebody like jonwil REing the whole mess with strace/gdb to a degree so we clearly see what's checked for and when it does what, rather than a better explanation coming from Nokia. Unless there's real public demand and complaints coming in via customer care17:41
DocScrutinizerposting a terse precise list of questions that are not answered in helptext might actually help to make Nokia move and publish some augmented explanation somewhere. This list should probably have points like >> a) what exactly is a background connection? \n b) what exactly will "enable background connections" change regarding behaviour? ..."17:46
DocScrutinizerc) what will power saving mode active change regarding behaviour related to internet connections? and how does this differ from the behavior changes introduced by "enable background connections"?17:49
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DocScrutinizerbtw there are TWO "allow background connections" options, one in "internet" and one in "mobile (GSM)"17:52
mgedminpeople say they control the same flag, from two different places17:53
razvanpetruyeah, I noticed that17:53
DocScrutinizerHAHAHA and they are both the same17:53
DocScrutinizermgedmin: yes, they actually do17:53
DocScrutinizernow THAT is puzzling insane17:54
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djszapiaheinecke: I will package git master HEAD soprano17:55
djszapithe missing cmake modules are committed there.17:55
djszapithat is our shelter for now =)17:55
DocScrutinizerand it even more convinces me that GPRS login is kept up even when ifconfig gprs0 down17:56
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DocScrutinizerwell, one bug for sure: bgc:disabled, psm:enabled, all apps on device closed, no ssh connection to devie via WLAN -> still WLAN connection stays up18:12
DocScrutinizerooh wow, it disconnected18:13
DocScrutinizerso no bug, but expected behaviour, just I wasn't patient enough :-D18:14
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: ?o/ long time no see18:15
DocScrutinizer\o/ even18:15
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DocScrutinizermeh, alas it doesn't even connect now to WLAN when I open browser and try to surf some URL18:16
DocScrutinizerit simply "hangs" with a progress bar like 5%18:17
DocScrutinizernow comes up with "can't open page" error msg18:17
DocScrutinizerhmm wlan fsckd up on device, doesn't list any APs18:18
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DocScrutinizernow THIS seems to be a veritable bug18:19
macmaNdoc ive seen that18:21
macmaNno progress browser18:21
macmaNbut on a side note: is there some sftp client ui available yet18:21
djszapiX-Fade ping18:23
SpeedEvilI suppose you're gonna say that the command line doesn't count?18:23
djszapiX-Fade is that expected I have a package for scheduling for more than 10 minutes, but not building ? There are no workers by me working on any packages.18:23
DocScrutinizermacmaN: the missing 26 AP SSIDs in network listing are the true bug symptom18:24
DocScrutinizerwlan chip or driver fsckd up18:24
DocScrutinizerreboot :-S18:24
djszapiM4rtinK: do you have an idea or/and experience for that ? ^18:27
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M4rtinKdjszapi: I'm used to packages "updating" for hours, until they finally time out18:31
M4rtinKnot sure about "sheduled" but might be a similar issue18:31
djszapiit got further. There was about 20 minutes out-time.18:32
djszapi"No AEGIS_HASH_FDS environment" is spammy :p18:32
macmaNDocScrutinizer: re some more bgc fun, pending image sharing transfers will never start until you enable bgc18:33
M4rtinKdjszapi: in case it gets stuck: osc abortbuild [OPTS] PROJECT [PACKAGE] Options :)18:33
macmaNyou can manually connect all you want, that doesnt phase the transfer queue one bit18:33
DocScrutinizeractually according to syslog it seems ICD2 makes kernel unload wl1273 module, and subsequently no loading of internetconnection-ui applet or whatever will re-load it18:34
djszapiM4rtinK: yep, I know.18:34
DocScrutinizeroh ell, reboot time18:35
macmaNDocScrutinizer: well on n900 unloading the kernel module with wifi switcher made a huge difference for battery life18:35
djszapiM4rtinK: there is actually even a ui web interface opportunity for aborting18:35
DocScrutinizermhm, so what?18:35
macmaNnothing. just a probably useless remark of what i know about that.18:35
DocScrutinizeryes, you're right, this is how fremantle managed wlan18:36
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M4rtinKdjszapi: I have encountered some cases where the stuck package won't react on the web ui and needs to be killed with osc - but that was before the OBS update so it might be fixed now18:37
DocScrutinizerand I guess HARM does same, just it "forgets" to load the module when you need it for establishing a WLAN connection, after bgc:disabled+psn:enabled unloaded it18:37
djszapifixed by now18:39
M4rtinKoh, good to know :)18:40
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DocScrutinizerNov 16 11:51:05 (2011) kernel: [414417.953002] onenand_wait: correctable ECC error = 0x0001, addr1 0xa, addr8 0x018:42
DocScrutinizerNov 16 11:51:05 (2011) kernel: [414417.955657] onenand_wait: correctable ECC error = 0x0001, addr1 0x4, addr8 0x6018:42
DocScrutinizerNov 16 11:51:05 (2011) kernel: [414417.956756] onenand_wait: correctable ECC error = 0x0001, addr1 0xa, addr8 0x018:42
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DocScrutinizerhmm, incidence? ->18:44
DocScrutinizerNov 16 14:54:36 (2011) kernel: [425429.064514] onenand_wait: correctable ECC error = 0x0001, addr1 0xa, addr8 0x018:44
DocScrutinizerNov 16 14:54:36 (2011) mce[551]: mce-io.c:mce_close_file(): Failed to close `/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-004b/wait_for_gesture'; Device or resource busy18:44
DocScrutinizerhere's what it did for bgc:disabled,psm:enabled after I cloed my ssh connection and waited for some 60s:
DocScrutinizerand actually that's same as above, plus the failing search for a new internet connection when I started browser:
javispedroDocScrutinizer, I also have several of those correctable ECC errors, always error=0x0100 addr1=0x4 addr8=0xac18:52
javispedrothey persist after a reflash18:53
javispedroand most interestingly, some aegis activities trigger it18:53
SpeedEvilECC errors are expected, and normal.18:53
Corsacas long as they are indeed correctable18:54
SpeedEvilWell - yes.18:54
javispedroSpeedEvil, _always_ on the same address, even after a reflash?18:54
SpeedEvilThe hardware page is the one with errors.18:54
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SpeedEvilA certain sub set of pages will have correctable errrors.18:54
SpeedEvilAs time gos on, some of those pages will worsen until they are no longer correctable, at whcih time they are retired.18:55
DocScrutinizershould get marked "bad block" on next flashing18:55
SpeedEvilThere is a 'good' correctable error threshold.18:55
SpeedEvilYou're only guaranteed the first block has no errors.18:55
SpeedEvilThe rest of the device is specced as 'will have a capacity of over X after 10000 writes, including correctible errors'18:56
SpeedEvilOr similar.18:56
DocScrutinizerwell, anyway, oneNand supposed to hold swap only?18:56
DocScrutinizer(besides kernel, CAL, other immutable stuff)18:56
DocScrutinizer(first block) actually I think it's one out of 4 first blocks18:57
javispedrothis is the reason I can trigger it when doing aegis-y stuff18:57
javispedro(such as, installing a package)18:58
SpeedEvilPossibly 4, yes, I was quoting from the one in the n90018:58
djszapiM4rtinK: ;-)19:11
M4rtinKdjszapi: congratulations ! :D19:12
djszapiwas a hard born :)19:12
DocScrutinizerok, FYI re background connection/poser-save-mode: I allowed background connections, enabled PSM, while logged in ssh via WLAN. Result: immediate tear down of WLAN. Starting browser and opening the "news about N9" URL re-established WLAN, ssh session still ok and working after that. locked screen with browser open -> no WLAN tear down for 5 min. Closed browser -> immediate teardown of WLAN. So CONCLUSION: a browser connection is stable19:17
DocScrutinizeragainst PSM teardown, while a ssh login doesn't matter at all, when bgc:ena/PSM:ena19:17
DocScrutinizerall this applies only when WLAN connection got auto-established. Doing exactly same (plus additional) tests after selecting same WLAN AP from manual connect to internet menu, the WLAN stays up.19:23
DocScrutinizeror not19:23
DocScrutinizerapparently it also shuts down a minute or two after I close browser19:23
DocScrutinizerok last test: establish WLAN manually, only log in via ssh, waaaaait19:24
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DocScrutinizer~ $ while sleep 15; do date; done  -> running since >3min now, over WLAN19:29
DocScrutinizersurvived another >4 min after I opened and closed browser, now killing the "ping"19:35
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DocScrutinizerWLAN down19:40
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DocScrutinizerso it seems safe to assume: "power-save-mode active will tear down WLAN *eventually* when no more data traffic happens on any of the existing connections"19:41
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DocScrutinizerpossibly interactively established sessions/connections like e.g. in browser might completely block tear down of WLAN19:42
DocScrutinizerwhile "non-harmattan" sessions (like ssh) happily get killed/cut whenever PSM daemon decides to time out - unless there's still active traffic on them at that moment19:43
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SpeedEviliptables list?19:46
DocScrutinizermeh for doing that on N9 unbearable shell19:47
DocScrutinizeron device :-D19:47
DocScrutinizerwhat I will do now though is a ping to $outside19:47
DocScrutinizersee if that'S establishing a connect at all19:48
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DocScrutinizer>> ping: sendto: Network is unreachable19:49
DocScrutinizerNB this is with bgc:en19:49
DocScrutinizerping: bad address: ct.de19:50
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DocScrutinizerso not even dnsmasq can crank up a background connection19:50
DocScrutinizerwhen PSM:en19:51
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DocScrutinizerhah, disabling PSM instantly establishes the "connect auto" WLAN connection19:53
DocScrutinizer*something* is not entirely straight with all this19:53
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DocScrutinizerI'd expect this behaviour (not even ping estabishing a cobbection) for bgc:0, not for bgc:1+psm:119:56
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DocScrutinizerso it seems while it would make sense to have separate settings for bgc and psm, the actual implementation implies bgc:0 on psm:1 and thus renders the bgc setting moot when power saving is active19:58
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DocScrutinizerOR xterm and the cmdline flock are even lower a caste than background connections, plus HARM's very own resolver/dnsmasq also suffers from being in this caste20:01
DocScrutinizerCBA to test generic HARM apps that might have some special code to open_background_sock()20:02
griartemma: You here?20:02
DocScrutinizerlike maybe mail20:02
artemmagri, hi there20:02
artemmayep, I am here :)20:02
artemmaIn the middle of 5 min break actually :)20:02
griartemma: You did publish to ovi, right? Do they really only accept square screenshots? In my n9 ovi client all applications have rectangular ones but I'm not able to upload a rectangular one20:03
artemmagri, it's more complex than that20:03
artemmathey want rectangular screenshots indeed20:04
artemmabut on the very last step you will suddenly see a popup out of nowhere20:04
artemmathat will ask you to upload 854x480 screenshots as well20:04
djszapiaheinecke: I will bring some Qt Stickers for the sprint. :)20:04
artemmathat said you should be able to upload rectangular screenshots now20:04
artemmais the size correct?20:05
artemmathere are limits for resolutions, file size and file types20:05
griartemma: So those square screenshots are only for the stupid website?20:05
artemmaI guess so20:05
artemmagri, what's your app about?20:06
grisending sms via internet sites (scraping, using api ..)20:07
artemmaoh, looks nice and useful20:07
grithe screenshots say pretty much of nothing :P20:07
artemmathough maybe not so much for people who have money for N920:07
artemmaI guess you have or will have version for Symbian as well20:07
grinot symbian compatible20:08
DocScrutinizerok, one last clarification: "background connection" obviously doesn't mean "connection of an app that doesn't have focus (is in 'background')", browser even when not visible and settings are bgc:0+psm:1 doesn't cause WLAN to disconnect20:08
gritoo much use of harmattan system components20:08
artemmawith the current Symbian phone prices Symbian phones can be exactly stuff bought by your target market20:08
djszapigri: on a side note: I might need your help this weekend because of the accounts plugin.20:08
artemmaoh.. I thought it's mostly qml20:08
artemmawell, good luck with Web2SMS!20:08
gridjszapi: ok20:09
griartemma: Well, it's qml with mostly everything done in c++ :)20:09
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DocScrutinizerooh, but locking screen seems to help, it's disconnected now20:10
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artemmaBTW, is here anybody from Helsinki?20:11
artemmaAnything interesting happening in Helsinki tomorrow? (related to programming, agile or maybe some leisure event/concert)20:11
* artemma is traveling to Helsinki for work tomorrow, thinking about evening time20:11
nix-cyrusgri: is it something like whatsapp and kik messenger or what?20:11
grinix-cyrus: not really20:12
grinix-cyrus: Whatsapp does not send sms, it only contacts it's own service which both clients need to have20:12
grinix-cyrus: my program really sends sms to the other side20:12
grigets useful if you need to send sms to different countries (there are services to send cheap sms worldwide)20:13
grior if you are in a foreign country, have wifi and want to send free sms home :)20:13
grior if your provider gives you free sms per month on their website like o2 germany does20:14
nix-cyrusgri: and is it for free? I mean sending sms to other countries??20:14
grinix-cyrus: Depends on the service you use20:14
DocScrutinizerok scratch that, lemme rephrase:20:14
griyou can add multiple accounts20:14
nix-cyrusgri: so.. if I understand right your program just make interface to providers web-service for sms sending?20:14
grinix-cyrus: right20:15
DocScrutinizer"background connection" obviously means "connection of an app that doesn't have focus (is in 'background')", browser when not visible and settings are bgc:0+psm:1 causes WLAN to disconnect eventually20:15
griand also for providers which don't have a api, there it starts scraping the website like you would have to do with your browser20:15
nix-cyrusok) it's nice.. does your app in
grinix-cyrus: No, I don't have an icon ... a blocker :)20:16
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nix-cyrusgri: so any reps? or you can try apps.for.meego :)20:17
grinix-cyrus: I want to reach the average user, so only ovi ...20:18
grinix-cyrus: I also assume the provider you would use is not implemented :D20:18
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rzranyone bored enough to fix this ?20:33
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Passelianyone having issues with internet connection on N9?20:35
Passelisometimes apps like web browser + feeds don't seem to be able to use active internet connection20:37
Passelionly poweroff/poweron will resolve this issue20:37
Passelieven when listening music with meespot app above apps cannot connect to internet20:38
Passelimail app seems to work also when above apps fails20:38
razvanpetruthe only problem I have is that the wifi is not used if it's already started using 2g and I turn wifi on...20:39
mgedminI've had problems when wifi appears to be online, but communication fails20:39
mgedmindisconnecting/reconnecting fixes it for me20:39
PasseliV 20.2011.40-4_PR_00120:39
Passelisame problem affects both 3g + wifi20:40
mgedminI suspect the access point (openwrt on a buffalo wzr-300gn, there's a known issue with wpa group rekeying iirc in the firmware version that I have)20:40
Passeliapps are not able to use active internet connection20:40
razvanpetruI bet lumia doesn't have this issues :P20:41
nix-cyrusrazvanpetru: why?20:42
razvanpetrueh it was more tongue-in-cheek :)20:42
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razvanpetruI'm actually curious about how good it is...20:42
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nix-cyrusrazvanpetru: oh ok20:42
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Chaz6Is it possible to sync my contacts with my nokia(/ovi) account like on symbian?20:55
Chaz6I can't figure out how to do it20:55
Chaz6I tried going to Settings->Sync but it only lets me add a bluetooth device20:56
Chaz6ahh got to do it through the nokia account under accounts.. weird!20:57
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deramChaz6: add ovi account with accounts tool21:11
deramrest is automatic21:12
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lardman|homeIs there an easy way of making the camera output rotate with the device rotation?21:52
lardman|homeThe video data are being rendered in a QDeclarativeItem21:54
lardman|homeI see I can call setRotation(), but is that usually necessary? Presumably I'll need to make that a property of the QML item, etc., seems like there ought to be an easier way?21:57
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djszapiX-Fade: how did it get rpc timeout during the building process around 20% ?
djszapinever really seen such an obs issue heretofore.21:59
lardman|homehey djszapi, you'll be glad to hear my issue this morning was merely an anchor problem, so the video was not visible... doh!22:00
djszapiaegis broke the anchors ?! :D22:00
lardman|homenah ;)22:01
lardman|homeI've yet to remove the aegis stuff though, but will have to check it still works22:01
djszapiyes, you indeed need.22:01
lardman|homeah ok, but not on the N9?22:02
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apeletehello #harmattan22:10
ajalkanehello to you22:12
apeleteI've been trying to install harmattan platform sdk on a debian squeeze, but it failed twice because I only have ~6GB left on my / partition before beginning the install22:12
apeletebefore the end the installer ran out of space22:13
apeletehow much space that thing needs actually ?22:13
ajalkaneapelete: perhaps you should install it to some partition that has more space?22:13
djszapiapelete: I use 10-20 GB for sb22:14
mgedmindu -xhcs /scratchbox => 7.5 GB22:14
djszapiand definitely separate partition22:14
apeleteif I try userinstall instead of admininstall it complains that sb is not installed and ask me to run admininstall22:14
apeletecan I specify the partition ? I want it to live in /home/apelete/22:15
mgedminI _think_ du did not double-count the bind-mount of /scratchbox on /scratchbox/users/mg/scratchbox (because it printed a SCARY FILESYSTEM CORRUPTION OMG-no-we-do-not-know-what-bind-mounts-are-why-do-you-ask warning instead)22:15
luke-jrmgedmin: du -x22:16
mgedminluke-jr, <mgedmin> du -xhcs /scratchbox => 7.5 GB22:16
apeleteso, is there a way to install to /home or am I obliged to resize my / partition ? I did not find any clue about partition selection in the install script...22:19
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djszapiapelete: use sb instead of creatorcrap :)22:20
mgedmindjszapi, "harmattan platform sdk" *is* scratchbox22:21
djszapi+ creator I guess22:21
djszapiso not really pure sb which is the main purpose of mine. Eliminating the creatorcrap22:21
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apeletedjszapi: I don't think so, pdk is pure scrachbox + the needed harmattan targets22:22
apeleteisn't it ?22:22
djszapinever really used harmattan platform sdk ...22:22
djszapiI have a nicely working sb since ever.22:22
apeleteok, how do you installed sb + harmattan targets ?22:23
djszapibut anyway, of course you can install sb onto another partition22:23
djszapiyou can even move it later anyway22:23
mgedminthere's a debian repository somewhere over at, isn't there?22:23
mgedminapelete, is your /usr separate from / ?22:23
djszapiapelete: well do you have a separate partition at all for this purpose ?22:24
mgedminso, a few of those gigs are scratchbox binaries (which will go into /), the others are the chroot'ed system, which you ought to be able to place on a different partition without too much trouble... I think22:24
apeleteI have /home separate from /, that's it22:25
djszapithat is not a wise thing ...22:25
djszapiapelete: anyway, I use lenny chroot, and sb inside that22:25
apeletebut everything is in a single lvm, so I was thinking about resize, but that's another PITA22:25
djszapiI have a separate partition for lenny chroot22:25
djszapiresizing is not PITA, mainly not with lvm22:26
mgedmin(as long as nothing goes wrong :) )22:26
djszapicould never really get anything wrong.22:27
javispedropdk :)22:28
djszapihow is the creator sdk called ?22:28
ajalkaneapelete: can't you install it in chroot wherever you want if it insists on / ?22:28
javispedrodjszapi: nokia qt sdk22:28
djszapithanks, blacklisted ;)22:29
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apeletejavispedro: yeah, I tried that, qtcreator is a bloated mess, no thanks22:30
djszapimuhaha :D22:30
* javispedro will not disagree with that 22:30
javispedrouh, gtg22:31
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apeleteajalkane: the is the harmattan pdk installer does not ask _where_ you want to install22:33
apeleteit automatically puts sb in /, and a few bits and pieces (don't know what exactly since it failed on me) in /home22:33
ajalkaneapelete: that's why I asked why not install it inside chroot. If you run the installer inside chroot, then if it tries installing in / it actually installs inside the chroot22:33
djszapiapelete: follow my instructions.22:34
djszapithough, a bit newer version than lenny might be more fashionable.22:36
djszapiI installed 2 years ago. Hence, lenny.22:36
apeleteok, so I'm going to install a squeeze chroot in my /home, and run the installer in that22:37
djszapithough, it does not matter much22:37
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djszapisince I do not effectively use the chroot22:37
djszapiI switch to sb directly from host.22:37
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djszapiM4rtinK: do you have an idea for this ?
M4rtinKdjszapi: I don't see any log - thats the issue ?22:58
djszapiI do not really know what the issue is ...22:59
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djszapiI have not ever touched the previously working kdelibs.22:59
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ZogG_laptopX-Fade: ping23:08
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X-FadeZogG_laptop: pong23:09
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M4rtinKdjszapi: check it out now - the good old "RPC timeout" error message showed up :) a rebuild should fix this23:15
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MilhouseAnyone working on getting Mer up and running on a Raspberry Pi?23:31
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nix-cyrusMilhouse: Raspberry Pi is already in online order??23:32
Milhousenot available for order yet, though i believe they've been seeding various OS vendors with prototype devices23:33
ieatlintMilhouse: i believe it is, in the #mer channel23:33
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Milhouseieatlint: cool23:33
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