IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2011-10-06

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artemmaIf it is recommended to use PageStackWindow, how do I use TabButtons then?00:16
artemmaTabButtons expect TabGroup items to have the same id00:17
MohammadAGartemma, MTF?00:17
artemmaand how do I put PageStackWindow's stack into a TabGroup :/00:17
artemmasome concept clash in my mind00:17
MohammadAGa PageStackWindow holds Pages00:17
artemmaHarmattan-specific qml00:17
MohammadAGyou should have one PageStackWindow and many Pages00:17
ieatlintyou might use a PageStack instead of a PageStackWindow there00:17
ieatlintbut that's a guess00:18
MohammadAGthere should only be one stack ieatlint00:18
artemmadaamed, I spent a day making sure I can use Window on desktop and PageStackWindow on Harmattan :)00:18
artemmathere's an example http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt-components/qt-components-meego-tabbutton.html?tab=000:18
MohammadAGPageStackWindow works on a desktop00:18
artemmawith several page stacks00:19
artemmasomething didn't work for me on desktop00:19
MohammadAGI'm not sure why it's using several page stacks00:19
ieatlinti thought you could only have 1 window, but different stacks?00:19
MohammadAGwhy different stacks?00:20
MohammadAGjust push different pages on one stack00:20
ieatlintso that tabs can have independent stacks?00:20
artemmaok, I better stop asking now: to vague understanding00:20
artemmaI'll code something and arrive to more proper questions00:20
MohammadAGwell, makes sense I guess00:20
ieatlintharmattan docs make me sad00:20
artemmayep, PageStackWindow doesn't exist in Symbian components00:21
artemmaso can't run it on desktop or simulator00:21
artemmaand some toolbarbutton details are different00:22
ieatlintthere are meego components for the simulator that support PageStackWindow i think00:22
artemmaieatlint: I failed to find how to use them then00:22
ieatlintfucking osx00:24
ieatlintsomething is eating ram, but i'm out of ram, so i can't even run top to see what it is00:25
artemmaIs Firefox your favorite browser?00:25
MohammadAGor you could copy PageStackWindow.qml into your project00:26
ieatlintchrome... and yeah, i closed 4 windows in my browser, and now i can load things, and osx reports is has 2gb of free ram00:26
* ieatlint stabs00:26
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ieatlintanyway, my current liesure project has a base of PageStackWindow and runs fine in qtsimulator00:27
ieatlintcurrent version of sdk/qtcreator00:27
artemmaieatlint: It surprises me. Then I am really missing something00:27
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ieatlinti think i needed to enable it in the qtsdk package system00:28
ieatlintam trying to check, but it feels it needs to check a nokia server before telling me what i have installed00:28
ieatlintyeah, there's an option there... Qt SDK -> Experimental -> Harmattan -> Qt Components -> Qt Quick components for Harmattan Simultator00:30
artemmaI remember seeing something about declarative definition of settings plugin. Does it really work?00:30
artemmaieatlint, thanks a lot! I'll try it00:30
MohammadAGanyway, the right way is to port the components to the platform00:31
MohammadAG4squick uses the Symbian stack, on MeeGo00:31
ieatlintthe right way seems to involve a lot of swearing and anger00:31
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ieatlintugh, today is not my day with nokia, as i pull my n950 out of my pocket and find it unresponsive00:35
SpeedEvil:/00:36
ieatlintyay, it randomly was able to boot00:37
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artemmawhat was that special url to get the theme icons00:52
artemmacan never remember it :(00:52
artemmalike iconSource: "theme://icon-l-clock-main-view"00:52
MohammadAGQIcon::fromTheme()00:52
MohammadAGoh, nvm00:53
augustlnoob question: what exactly is the N9 using for UI? Afaik Qt is only a cross platform wrapper that binds to a subsystem. Is that correct? If so, is it Qt or the subsystem that is responsible for the great N9 UI?00:53
artemmaimage://theme/ !00:54
augustlthe N9 feels snappier than my old iPhone 4, so I'm really curious what UI framework that has achieved this.00:54
artemmaaugustl: QtComponents00:54
augustlartemma: looking it up, thanks00:55
artemmathat is, well, QML components drawn on canvas00:55
MohammadAGartemma, no00:55
artemmareally?00:56
MohammadAGThe N9's UI is MTF00:56
artemmaoh00:56
augustlso Qt has a built in way of rendering to anything that can draw rgb pixels?00:56
MohammadAGBased on Qt's QGraphicsScene00:56
artemmanow I remember00:56
augustlMohammadAG: hmm, what's MTF?00:56
artemmaQt components are for 3rd parties00:56
MohammadAGMeeGoTouchFramework00:56
artemmanative apps are done in meegotouch00:56
MohammadAGQt Components is QML00:56
MohammadAGand all the UI framework is an extension to meegotouch00:56
augustl"MeeGo Touch is deprecated, do not use it in new projects as it is scheduled for removal from MeeGo" :O00:56
MohammadAGscrew that00:56
MohammadAGit's deprecated in MeeGo 1.300:57
MohammadAGHarmattan is 1.200:57
MohammadAGand deprecated != removed00:57
artemmaand 1.3 is planned for like never :)00:57
augustlMeeGo 1.3 = Tizen?00:57
berndhsit's all deprecated now :/00:57
MohammadAGno, 1.3 is out as a CE00:57
MohammadAGbut Harmattan won't be updated to that I guess00:57
MohammadAGI use MTF for all my apps00:57
MohammadAGcause I prefer C++ over JS00:57
augustlso MTF is responsible for the awesome snappy animations, etc?00:58
augustl(on the N9)00:58
MohammadAGyeah, and mcompositor00:58
ieatlintwell, MTF is just a subset of Qt00:58
MohammadAGyeah00:58
ieatlinton QGrphicsView00:58
MohammadAGyep00:58
ieatlintso your answer is that Qt is the reason the N9 has nice graphics00:58
augustlI see, thanks00:58
DocScrutinizer51and I prewfere the way bettweer MTF ovder crappy QML widgets and general functionality00:58
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> Based on Qt's QGraphicsScene <-- ieatlint00:58
ieatlintand it's heavily customized from the regular Qt00:59
MohammadAGQt's core is the same00:59
ieatlintand every 3 months nokia dramatically changes things :P00:59
DocScrutinizer51prefer*00:59
augustlso in Qt + MeeGo, we have a Linux based platforms capable of creating UIs rivaling iOS, something even Android isn't capable of imo. And Nokia is abandonig it, meh.00:59
MohammadAGPraise elop00:59
augustlI'm excited to see what the community ends up doing with MeeGo. Perhaps I'll flash my N9 to MeeGo CE 1.3 :)01:00
berndhswhether Nokia is abandoning it, or it will come back with the meli-thing, fun speculation01:00
MohammadAGthat's for low end devices01:00
augustlberndhs: hmm, meli-thing?01:00
augustlMohammadAG: ah01:01
berndhsmelt-something01:01
berndhsyes for low end phones, but that is a relative concept01:01
augustland I do love the swipe UI, which CE doesn't have I guess.01:01
berndhswhat is low end next year is not the same as now01:01
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ieatlintever notice that elop is pole backwards?01:01
ieatlintthis clearly means something important01:02
DocScrutinizer51melt-me01:02
augustlPestle Phone is an anagram of Stephen Elop01:02
augustlcoincidence? Don't think so!01:03
ieatlintit all makes sense now, mango, meltemi, meego, maemo01:04
augustlbtw, is it correct to say that N9 essentially runs Maemo? Since it hasn't been fully merged into MeeGo yet?01:04
ieatlintthe N9 runs harmattan, aka meamo601:04
ieatlintmaemo601:04
DocScrutinizer51yep01:04
ieatlintso yeah, it's more maemo than meego, but it's far removed from maemo5/fremantle01:04
MohammadAGaugustl> and I do love the swipe UI, which CE doesn't have I guess.01:05
augustlbut it uses meego touch for a lot of stuff01:05
MohammadAGyou can get swipe UI on MeeGo CE 1.201:05
MohammadAGI'm not sure if 1.3 introduces an ABI break01:05
MohammadAGbut technically, just copy the libs over01:05
augustlMohammadAG: the Nokia one, the  very same as on the N9, or a CE "copy"?01:05
MohammadAGsame one01:06
MohammadAGthat's why I said copy the bins and libs over01:06
augustlhmm, that's cool01:06
MohammadAGand probably illegal01:06
specialaugustl: also take a look at w00t and alterego's 'lipstick'01:06
MohammadAGbut hey, where's the fun in legal stuff :p01:06
MohammadAGshouldn't have said that before my N950 replacement was sent01:06
augustlso meltemi is a replacement for low end symbian, and is powered by Qt?01:06
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ieatlintmeltemi is allegedly a replacement for low end symbian, and is rumoured to run qt01:07
berndhsthey're not saying what meltemi is01:07
augustlall nokia said was that they'll use windows phone 7 a lot, and that they're abandoning MeeGo, right? They haven't said they'll abandon symbian, making low end phones, etc?01:07
ieatlintbut all we know is in a WSJ article that nokia isn't really contesting01:07
ieatlintthey didn't say they were abandoning meego really01:07
berndhsdoesn't Nokia make all their money with low end phones ?01:08
ieatlinti mean, they are, but they never really said it01:08
DocScrutinizer51they make all their voisd with too cheap lowend phones01:08
DocScrutinizer51void01:08
augustlthe N9 could use a few updates for polish, so I hope they haven't abandoned it yet ;)01:08
ieatlintrumours say there's pretty much no one left working on meego01:09
ieatlintso don't count on any real updates01:09
DocScrutinizer51of course they have - hey it's starting to SELL soon01:09
augustlthe notification screen clearly needs a widget-ish API for example ;)01:10
augustlso that apps can add items that aren't notifications to it01:10
DocScrutinizer51so make that a ddecdent desktop screen instead01:11
ieatlintwhat is the release version on the n9 anyway01:11
ieatlintaugustl: do you have a retail n9?01:11
augustlI'm thinking something between android widgets and notifications.01:11
augustlieatlint: yep, checking now01:11
augustlieatlint: MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan 10.2011.34-1_PR_00901:12
ieatlintmy guess is 39-1, but it might be 34-101:12
ieatlintah, ok01:12
ieatlintyeah01:12
ieatlintthere'll be some updates then, for sure01:12
augustlyay01:12
augustlhow I wish they'll post an update where they remove aegis01:12
augustlso developers can mod the swipe UI as they want01:13
ieatlintextremely unlikely01:13
augustladding widgets for example ;) And replacing the mail app, which is kind of half-good. Etc.01:13
augustlyep..01:13
augustland since all web apps seem to use user agent sniffing instead of feature detection, I have to use native apps01:14
augustlgmail.com on the N9 is awful01:14
MohammadAGfenix is good01:14
augustlso is twitter.com and facebook.com01:14
MohammadAGuse fennec if you hate the default browser01:15
MohammadAGfenix for email01:15
augustlMohammadAG: no fenix in the Ovi store, hmm01:15
augustlhoping Mozilla will release Firefox for the N9 soon.01:16
augustlhmm, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84ofBgvTwTE01:18
augustlit exists already?01:18
augustl"Type application/x-install-instructions not supported."01:20
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augustlfound a .deb. Do I need developer mode to install Firefox on a N9?01:27
ieatlintno, but you need to enable installations from unknown sources01:27
ieatlintSettings -> Applications -> Installations01:28
ieatlintand check the box in there01:28
augustlhow do I install a deb after that is done?01:28
augustla website suggests e-mailing it to myself, heh01:30
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augustlalso, found the deb on my-meego.com which I don't find particularly trustworthy. Anyone know where on mozillas sites I can download the deb?01:31
ieatlintuh, the browser will open the package manager for it if you get it from there (can do file:///home/user/MyDocs/blah.deb), or if you install one of the file managers from the store01:32
ieatlintalternatively, enable dev mode and dpkg -i in the terminal01:33
augustlall I can find are .install files that the N9 browser doesn't seem to handle01:33
augustlguess I'll browse around until I can find a .deb and try to open it in the browser ;)01:33
ieatlintno idea what .install files are01:34
augustlme neither01:34
augustlhttp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/maemo/en-US/01:34
augustlreally hard to find a 9.0 fennec deb on mozilla's site01:35
augustlMeeGo isn't even mentioned on https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Platforms01:35
DocScrutinizerjust click on the .deb in browser to start download, then click to the downlouaded file in "downloads" screen to install01:36
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DocScrutinizerseems there are no .install files for HARM01:37
augustltrying to find the deb first :)01:37
augustlholy shit this is hard, it can't possibly have been relased in any way shape or form01:39
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ieatlintuh, no, mozilla didn't release for harmattan01:39
DocScrutinizerI'd guess mozilla has a hard time to create a deb for an OS that's even "not available yet"01:39
ieatlintsomeone took the maemo5/fremantle/n900 build and repackaged for harmattan01:39
augustlI see01:40
augustlDocScrutinizer: not available yet?01:41
DocScrutinizeryawn01:41
augustlDocScrutinizer: huh?01:42
* DocScrutinizer just wonders how chinese make it to sell chargers, cradles, pouches, whatnot, even months befor rollout of $random_product01:44
augustlthe N9 is available in many countries now, so not sure what you mean with "not available yet".01:44
DocScrutinizerpff01:45
ieatlintsadly not mine, and i have no obvious way of purchasing one :(01:45
augustlDocScrutinizer: "pff" what?01:46
DocScrutinizerIhad to use physical force to convice that dude not to sell me one when I took a walk on the street, sure01:46
augustlDocScrutinizer: just asking01:46
DocScrutinizerI think it's no 2 weeks ago Nokia *anounced* start of sales01:47
SpeedEvilaugustl: As far as I'm aware, nobody has recieved one.01:50
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/OffersOfProduct/2263338_-n9-16gb-nokia.html  shipping: week42, week42, not yet, week 42, 2011-10-2701:51
SpeedEvilaugustl: Or said they've gotten tracking number.01:51
ieatlinti'm pretty sure the n9 is a myth, and doesn't actually exist01:52
DocScrutinizer:-D01:53
ieatlintor what is the myth one, the RM-692?01:53
ieatlintthere's the n950 at RM-680, the N9 at RM-696 and a third one referenced in the images...01:53
DocScrutinizerRX-71 ?01:55
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specialSpeedEvil: people have received them01:56
DocScrutinizerobviously nobody of mozilla01:56
DocScrutinizer;-P01:56
ieatlintyeah, well, mozilla is in the US01:56
artemmalocal operator was arranging some fun quest today01:56
ieatlintthey had a hell of a time getting the N900s01:56
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ieatlintthey actually bought one off me because they couldn't secure a supplier01:56
artemmawinners were supposed to get N9 a week earlier than others, that is probably today as well01:56
artemmain the local (Finnish) operator stores N9 is on Oct 1301:57
DocScrutinizerthen any company planning to publish a _real_ app might have a really hard time to find their way around aegis policies and restrictions. Considering e.g. Opera even shipped their own vkbd on N900. For games it's even harder02:01
DocScrutinizerI don't expect Operat to ship a version for N9 any time soon02:02
DocScrutinizerOpera*02:02
DocScrutinizerand *real* games are rarely implemented in plain QML XP02:03
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DocScrutinizerhonestly, in my book the whole platform is stillborn. But then that's just me, and I don't really care a lot02:04
SpeedEvilspecial: Ok - I'm commenting on lack of people on IRC, I guess.02:06
specialSpeedEvil: https://twitter.com/#!/w00teh/status/121255254246432769 is my source02:07
DocScrutinizeroooh, did I mention that as soon as any company found a way to implement their ACME app despite all the aegis policy restrictions, Nokia is going to ship an OS update with tighter policies so the whole ACME project is doomed?02:09
DocScrutinizerit's up to your guessing how many companies are willing to take that risk02:11
SpeedEvilspecial: Now go and count how many users seem to have recieved nokia n9 or #n9 hashtag. I question if any of them are actual users, not dev, and there are around 4.02:18
SpeedEvil(looking over the last couple of days)02:18
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specialSpeedEvil: pretty sure w00t got his through a norwegian carrier, nothing special02:20
specialbut yeah, they don't seem to be shipping for most people yet02:21
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: uh, what are you basing your info on that nokia is going to further restrict the platform?02:22
DocScrutinizeron the fact that they did once? on the obvious option they got to do it any time again?02:23
ieatlintrestricting permissions when going from a developer build to a release build is not particularly shocking02:25
ieatlintand if you followed the nokia dev guidelines, your application should not have been affected02:25
ieatlintit's unlikely they will further restrict permissions, unless it is in response to a specific security threat02:25
DocScrutinizerBWAHAHAHAHAHA, the tale always been our version is so braindamaged restricted *because* it's exactly same policy as user device02:26
ieatlinti'm not sure there was ever an official tail, just assumptions02:27
ieatlinti didn't get a memo about aegis with my n950 anyway02:27
DocScrutinizerand please don't make me die from laughing by tellig me about "nokia dev guidelines" - are you referring to "just use SDK and QML only" which clearly is no option for *real* development as mentioned above, or are you referring to the non-existent listing and explanation of available tokens?02:28
artemmalisting all the stuff in any category carefully is not nokia style..02:29
ieatlintnokia provides guidelines on how to use qt with mtf, opengl, etc02:29
artemmaSymbian QML components seem to be the only known [by me] exception02:29
artemmamaybe Symbian components developers touched Qt culture too much02:29
ieatlintaegis is more about preventing you from modifying the base system than anything else02:32
ieatlintit's a poor attempt at sandboxing02:32
SpeedEvilWith all the stuff the user cares about in one sandbox.02:33
SpeedEvilspecial: I read up, and found that w00t indeed ordered from telenor02:35
SpeedEvilAre hte apps available to n950 and n9 on the store different?02:35
ieatlintno02:35
ieatlintonly difference is what's on the base image... n9 has more02:36
SpeedEvilSo angry birds still isn't in the store?02:36
ieatlintit's on the base image of both the n9 and n95002:37
SpeedEvilWell - yes - I mean >5 levels02:37
SpeedEvil(neglecting magic)02:37
ieatlintoh, i think you buy that from inside the app02:37
SpeedEvilLink is broken02:38
* ieatlint shrugs02:38
SpeedEvilIt redirects to rovio, which redirects to the store, and opens nothing.02:38
ieatlinti never got into angry birds, so i haven't even played a level on the n95002:38
berndhsclearly the problem is they used rpm instead of deb, or the other way around02:39
ieatlintdamn right, they should've used _____02:41
* SpeedEvil goes back to trying to beat 83280 on 1-502:43
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ieatlintis it impolite/insisensitive/wrong to say "ding dong the witch is dead" ?02:58
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SpeedEvilhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_jobs02:59
SpeedEvilARGH02:59
ieatlintyep02:59
ieatlintno surprise, he wasn't there yesterday02:59
SpeedEvil(Argh in that I just got 86450,  but I looked away at the crucial moment)02:59
ieatlintwe'll see if apple becomes a friendlier company now03:01
* SpeedEvil regrettably is not holding breath.03:02
DocScrutinizerhaha03:02
DocScrutinizerI'm quite sure apple became a less friendly place without him03:03
ieatlinti dunno, he was known for making it a religion even in the 80s03:04
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SpeedEvilThere are now solid market-driven reasons for most decisions on apple, which will keep it beaving damn near the same.03:09
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ieatlinthe must have been really disappointed in the iphone 4s03:14
* SpeedEvil wonders at apples stock price tomorrow03:15
ieatlinteh, probably not much, him stepping down as ceo was the more direct message03:18
SpeedEvilWell - indeed.03:18
SpeedEvilRationally, there should be no impact at all03:19
berndhsyeah but you're talking about the stock market, rational ain't got nothin to do with it03:19
SpeedEvilExactly.03:22
SpeedEvilOw.03:24
SpeedEvilI've just been going over some reciepts of moneys I got in the past, and computed what I'd have gotten if I'd invested it in AAPL back in 2002.03:25
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SpeedEvilIs there a way - other than review - to submit bugs on a ovi app?03:38
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SpeedEvilOr, indeed, find their source. (if open)03:42
DocScrutinizersubmit bug tickets? this is a mass market system ;-P03:42
SpeedEvilAnd yes.03:43
DocScrutinizererr, end user03:43
berndhsyou're supposed to buy the next release if the current one has a bug03:43
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DocScrutinizeror send device in to Nokia repair&care via that unique method I developed back when N900 was new: flush it down the toilet, it will reach Nokia R&C in the most direct and speedy way possible XP03:45
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: probably you'll need to contact rovio directly via phone call to get those add-on levels03:48
DocScrutinizerbtw it's quite tellrale that A-B isn't available via OVI shop but comes with Nokia(!) image, like e.g. develsh03:50
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DocScrutinizerfeels like quite in line with my concerns about *real* development form some hours ago03:51
DocScrutinizerI'd not be surprised if angry birds couldn't get installed via OVI at all, due to permissions needed that aren't available for anything but genuine Nokia source03:52
SpeedEvilThat seems unlikely03:53
DocScrutinizerwell, I got no beta2 here, you're free to check the permissions/tokens/policy (dang, who's writing a glossar finally for all those terms?) if you got beta2 with AB03:54
SpeedEvilWhere are the per-app tokens stored?03:57
DocScrutinizerRTFM BWAHAHAHA ;-)04:08
DocScrutinizerlet's see if I can spot it04:08
SpeedEvilHaha.04:10
SpeedEvilangrybirdsfreemagic --help04:10
SpeedEvilProduces a long list of commandline option04:10
DocScrutinizernice04:10
DocScrutinizer:shrug: sorry, can't recall it, I don't even recall where restok is living, and CBA to use find04:15
DocScrutinizerless +'/angrybirdsFOOBAR' /var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf04:17
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders how a user is supposed to reinstall AB, after she decided to uninstall it for some free space on those small 16GB04:18
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SpeedEvilNo tokens04:30
DocScrutinizerany clue what'sa /var/lib/usbutils/usb.ids ?04:32
SpeedEvilpart of udev04:35
SpeedEvilhmm04:36
DocScrutinizerhmm. hmm?04:36
SpeedEvilNot obvious04:37
SpeedEvilgadget IDs came to mind.04:37
SpeedEvilBut why so large?04:37
DocScrutinizerfirst I thought04:37
DocScrutinizerand why so binary04:37
DocScrutinizerintrusion detection system? ;-P04:37
DocScrutinizermeh, found my next fav foe: usb_moded04:40
SpeedEvilOh04:41
SpeedEvilIt'ssimply gzipped04:41
DocScrutinizerlol04:41
SpeedEvilAnd it's similar to what's probably on your systems udev usb rules04:42
DocScrutinizerweird, what for is it needed anyway?04:42
berndhscan't install rsync, how unfortunate04:42
SpeedEvilOddly it doesn't seem to have nokia phones04:44
SpeedEvil(recent ones)04:44
SpeedEvilI guess it's pulled in with udev04:44
SpeedEvilAnd nobody cared04:44
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DocScrutinizerdang, how did you unzip it?04:46
SpeedEvilzcat04:46
DocScrutinizerthanks :-)04:46
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DocScrutinizern805:00
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DocScrutinizerfind / -name '*usb*'  2>/dev/null made me feel sleepy05:01
SpeedEvilNNight!05:05
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djszapihttp://www.engadget.com/2011/10/05/steve-jobs-in-his-own-words/06:16
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iekkumorning07:38
RST38hMoorning.07:39
dm8tbrmoo07:41
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DocScrutinizermorning08:23
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rantomGonna ask again11:33
rantomAnyone installed Quicklaunch yet?11:33
rantom*sigh* s/Quicklaunch/Shortcuts11:37
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rantomhttp://projects.developer.nokia.com/shortcuts/wiki/Downloads11:37
MohammadAGmorning11:39
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rantommorning11:59
DocScrutinizermoaning12:01
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arfollanyone know where certificate_install expects to find certificates and what extension they should use?13:21
SpeedEviliirc .pem13:22
SpeedEvil /var/lib/aegis or something13:22
SpeedEvilfind / -name "*cert*"13:22
arfollSpeedEvil: i've tried .pem and in various places in /var/lib/aegis but it doesnt want to appear :-(13:23
SpeedEvilOooh13:25
SpeedEvilhttps://online.sagepub.com/cgi/register?registration=FT2011-IMECHE-213:25
SpeedEvilREGISTER TO RECEIVE FREE ONLINE ACCESS TO ALL 18 JOURNALS OF THE INSTITUTION OF MECHANICAL ENGINEERS ON SAGE JOURNALS ONLINE                         UNTIL OCTOBER 31, 2011.13:25
SpeedEvil                      You can register for a free SAGE Journals Online account to access personal tools and13:25
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merlin1991I just read the log of today morning, and now I'm wondering what I should use for an n9 specific app in terms of ui framework, qml or mtf?13:54
ajalkanemerlin1991: QML if you want futureproof, MTF otherwise if that's your alley. MTF apps start faster. They also have more of those stock widgets you see in the included apps.13:55
merlin1991this feels just like glib vs qt on maemo again13:55
merlin1991glib if I want to look like the system, qt if it's supposed to be "futureproof" damn it qwidget is deprecated13:56
ajalkaneI guess it's similar situation.13:56
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merlin1991hm nokia server is showing me the middle finger, rootstrap dl @ 80KB/sec14:01
jreznikmerlin1991: not sure - you can look system like with both qml and mtf14:03
jreznikQt Components has one advantage - there's also Symbian14:04
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djszapi~seen wazd14:21
infobotwazd <~wazd@188.123.241.176> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 6d 3h 39m 18s ago, saying: 'heya'.14:21
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djszapiVenemo: o/14:21
Venemohey djszapi14:21
Venemodjszapi, I've just read your blog :)14:21
djszapioh thanks :)14:22
Venemodjszapi, you mentioned that you participated in the IRC meeting from your N9.14:24
Venemodid you, by any chance, use IRC Chatter to do this? :P14:24
VenemoI missed it, but I'll try to be there in #mer at 18:00 UTC (20:00 here), but I think I'll be on a train at that time. so I dunno if I can go.14:25
djszapiI used your software, yes :)14:25
Venemodjszapi, oh by the way, I've finally implemented some changes that make it possible to reconnect after a disconnection!14:25
djszapithat is sweet! :)14:26
Venemodjszapi, there is no GUI yet that would indicate this, but it works in the background14:26
VenemoI need to test it further. such as, does it work when the phone automatically switches from 3G to wifi, and such.14:27
djszapiyeah. Do you have a release plan btw ? Rather, uploading to OVI plan ?14:29
Venemoyes I do14:29
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Venemobut I don't have release dates... I can't foretell when I will have the free time to complete it14:30
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mtd~seen rzr15:11
infobotrzr <~rzr@rzr.ww7.be> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 12d 22h 59m 38s ago, saying: 'RST38h: put dj in cc. too plz'.15:11
mtdanyone have a deb for rsync for beta2?  rzr's harmattan repo's package has some dependency on base_files= 4.x15:12
mtdrsync: Depends: base-files (>= 4.0.1) but 3.1.osso2+3.1.10.osso45+0m6 is to be installed15:12
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alteregoHrm, why isn't this bloody working ..15:50
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alteregoOh, silly me ..15:54
alterego(as always)15:54
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tsdgeosi'm trying to use harmattan components in Qt SDK but they do not show in the "graphic" editor15:58
tsdgeoswhat am i missing?15:58
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RzRmtd: hi17:09
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RzRmtd: I am slowly back in bizness :)17:09
mtdRzR: nice :)17:12
mtdRzR: I am trying to learn all the OBS-fu from you :)17:12
mtdRzR: for example, I suppose I should be using sarge base-files, but not sure why squeeze seems to be recommended for building packages against17:13
* mtd is distracted by stupid osc woes now, though - basic auth failed though I can login fine via chrome :(17:13
mtdRzR: thanks for your packages, btw...on beta1 I used tmux and a few others all the time.17:14
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RzRmtd: no more on beta2 ?17:21
RzRfell free to fork my rsync and I'll merge it back17:21
mtdRzR: I suspect it might be something on my side - I built rsync in scratchbox and I get the same dependency error17:22
mtdRzR: rsync: Depends: base-files (>= 4.0.1) but 3.1.osso2+3.1.10.osso45+0m6 is to be installed17:22
mtdI just force the install and it seems to work OK17:22
RzReys i read that17:22
RzRyes ..17:22
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RzRjust try to rebuild after you rm "(>= 4.0.1)"17:23
mtdRzR: ah, fine :)17:23
mtdRzR: not sure why it worked before, though - I don't think I had that problem with beta117:23
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RzRi am still on b117:32
mtdRzR: ah, ok.17:32
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* mtd 's scratchbox has problems with osc 401 basic unauthorized because of http://bugs.python.org/issue963917:46
* mtd facepalm.17:47
mtdRzR: thanks, removing that lets rsync install fine.17:47
mtd(obviously, but I'm new to this so I don't have a good sense of what hacks are OK and what aren't)17:48
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RzRmail your obs repo and I'll merge it17:51
RzRmail me17:51
mtdRzR: will do; I'm fixing osc so I can conveniently upload to my repo, so it's not there yet :)17:52
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mtdRzR: what debian vrsion do you recommend to use in your OBS repos?  squeeze?18:00
RzRI think I try testing 1st18:02
RzRi'll have to check18:02
mtdRzR: I copied your setting, but just wondering if you had changed your mind or something18:03
mtdRzR: I am uploading rsync now18:03
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* mtd did something wrong, and getting "Server returned an error: HTTP Error 301: Moved Permanently" when "sending meta data" for the new directory18:08
mtdwill have to learn more tomorrow18:08
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Venemo_N950hi18:35
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faenilhi!! :) Have been offline for 3 days due to ISP change...any news in the meanwhile? :)19:19
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SpeedEvilfaenil: N9s are hitting actual customers in small numbers.19:35
SpeedEvilw00t got one.19:35
faenilhey! :D19:36
SpeedEvilw00t: can you comment on any differences between n9, and n950 firmware/19:36
faenilI think there are so many differences :)19:36
alteregohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F_VBjdeyQY19:36
SpeedEvilI mean besides 'boring' differences like or example swype19:36
SpeedEvilw00t: Oh - and Steve Jobs popped off.19:36
alteregoQML HTML5 application state transfer :)19:36
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faenilyeah Steve Job's death is the only news I have received so far19:37
TronicI guess no WebGL on the final device either?19:40
ieatlintanyone have a good store for the n9 that ships internationally?19:56
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augustlieatlint: where are you located?20:04
ieatlintcalifornia20:04
ieatlintbest i can find is an aussie store with the 16gb model for $654USD shipped20:04
augustlI only know of one store in Norway that sells it without a contract20:05
augustl950 USD.. Currency fail.20:05
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augustland they don't ship afaik, it's a nokia concept store with no webshop20:07
RzRieatlint: at bottom : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=7768320:07
ieatlintyeah... the AUD is nearly the same as the USD, so easier20:07
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Elessar$750/$810 for 16/64 GB models in Russia without contract20:09
ieatlintthat the price on a store that ships and is reputable?20:10
ieatlintpreferably in english so i don't spend $800 with google translate :{20:10
augustlI hope Marko Ahtisaari is working on reverting Elops desicion :)20:12
w00tSpeedEvil: mm, anything in particular you're interested in?20:12
ieatlintdoes swype actually work on the release fw?20:13
ieatlintdoes it float?20:13
augustlswype?20:13
ieatlintyeah, swype keyboard20:13
SpeedEvilw00t: In no particular order. Can you buy angry birds from the in-game link, or does it just hit a blank page.20:14
SpeedEvilw00t: I assume settings -> security -> developer mode isn't there?20:14
SpeedEvilWhat about settings -> applications -> installations -> allow from non ovi sources20:15
w00tdeveloper mode is there20:15
w00tnon-store sources setting is there20:16
w00tangry birds purchase opens a webpage which appears to open the store(?), but i'm not sure if that's actually working or not, or if it's just amazingly non-obvious20:17
augustlSpeedEvil: they're both there20:18
augustlthe developer mode is apparently quite restricted though20:18
SpeedEvilsame here - on AB.20:19
SpeedEvilI was wondering if they'd managed to unbreak it for release.20:19
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pinheiroguys  http://pastebin.com/fXq0XE4k20:26
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ieatlintSpeedEvil: the problem is not the n9, it's rovio20:28
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ieatlintwhen you click on that link, it loads an angrybirds.com website20:28
ieatlintwhich does a 302 redirection to http://store.ovi.mobi/games/20:28
ieatlintso they need to update their 302 to point somewhere useful -- which is likely waiting on the game being published in the ovi store for the n920:29
SpeedEvilPossibly, yes. I surmised that.20:29
SpeedEvilI'm just boggling that they haven't got it out.20:29
SpeedEvilAnd that the EA games game is not more heavily promoted in store20:30
ieatlintyou mean gof2?20:30
SpeedEvilsims HD20:31
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ieatlintyeah, hadn't heard of it :P20:31
rantomopenssh-client (and -server) are in the N920:32
rantom?20:32
pinheiroany one has add trouble flashing the n950 under linux?20:36
rcgpinheiro: nope20:39
SpeedEvilyes rantom pinheiro20:39
rcgwell consider me talking for myself ;)20:39
pinheiro"Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy"20:39
pinheiro?20:40
rantomSpeedEvil: ok, with develop-mode I'd assume?20:40
rantomdeveloper*20:40
pinheiroSpeedEvil: any solution?20:41
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pinheiroSpeedEvil: think i managed to make it work21:00
pinheiromodprobe -r cdc_phonet21:01
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pinheirorepetedly on a second konsole21:01
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pinheiroas root21:01
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pinheiroat least he says he is errasing it now21:02
* pinheiro wonders how long it will take to errase it21:02
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pinheirothis is taking 4ever21:04
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rcg1pinheiro: thats normal21:43
rcg1takes quite a while21:43
rcg1but well should have been finished by now21:43
rcg1shoulda have looked at the timestamps21:43
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pinheiroerror21:54
pinheiroRROR: Failed to erase MMC using 'secure' method21:54
pinheiroErasing finished at 19:38:1921:54
pinheiroErasing unsuccessful21:54
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ajalkaneI'm kinda of a coward. Or conservative. I haven't dared to install the new SDK. Does it work OK with Harmattan?22:36
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ieatlintwhat do you mean, i've never seen a qtsdk update break things :P22:47
merlin1991hm my scratchbox broke on apt-get upgrade22:48
merlin1991qt packages died with too many errors22:48
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ajalkaneYeah... I'm kind of like feeling, "it's working ok for me right now, don't fuck it up by trying to update"22:54
merlin1991I ended up getting the resent rootstrap and doing the scratchbox target from scratch22:58
matrixxI feel like that all the time22:59
ajalkanethe problem is, I'm also feeling like "maybe I'm missing out on something important if I don't have the new version". And so I fuck it up every now and then.23:03
matrixxthat's the other side of the coin :/23:04
merlin1991the other side for me was, hm this weekend n9 hackaton @ metalab, DEVICES --> need to update my dev environment and get running again23:05
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pinheiroits briked23:16
pinheirogaaa23:16
pinheiroERROR: Failed to erase MMC using 'secure' method23:17
matrixxmerlin1991: hehe23:18
matrixxmerlin1991: that's a good motive :)23:18
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ieatlintmetalab had a n9 hackathon?23:46
ieatlintnice23:46
ieatlinti show up at my local hackerspace and just get 30 people on macbook pros and a bunch of hippies who insist "fermented foods are healthier" staring at me23:47
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alteregoHeh23:51
merlin1991ieatlint: is going to have, this weekend23:53
merlin1991we even get catering from nokia austria afaik23:53
ieatlintlucky bastards23:54
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