IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2011-09-07

GeneralAntilles. . .00:09
GeneralAntillesWhy would TI layout a keyboard on their calculator in ABC. . .00:10
GeneralAntillesWhat happened to QWERTY?00:10
ajalkaneGeneralAntilles: QWERTY is quite illogical and a relic from the mechanical typewriters. ABC etc. makes more sense. Surely TI is a sensible company.00:11
GeneralAntillesQWERTY is illogical00:12
GeneralAntilles(which is why I use Dvorak on devices where it makes sense)00:12
GeneralAntillesHowever, my thumbs are already trained for QWERTY00:12
GeneralAntillesRetraining for ABC sucks.00:12
ajalkaneDVORAK is tuned to english languages. The only logical, cross-language solution, is ABC.00:13
javispedroworse is better00:13
GeneralAntillesajalkane, yes, well, I'm not planning on using anything but English on this thing.00:21
ajalkaneI guess your complaint then should be "What happened to DVORAK" :-P00:22
GeneralAntillesI'm not asking silly questions. :)00:23
GeneralAntillesGiven that the target audience for these devices are students aged 12-2100:23
ajalkaneSeriously speaking, I'm kinda terrified of as a touch-typist that QWERTY layouts might be getting into the bin.00:23
GeneralAntillesand their PRIMARY mode of communication is through QWERTY thumb keyboards, well. . . .00:24
GeneralAntillesThere's no way QWERTY is going anywhere anytime soon.00:24
ajalkaneWith all the new pads and smartphones etc., and younger generations not needing such typing, it may be in 25 years QWERTY is a relic00:24
javispedroajalkane: until the day Steve Jobs comes out of retirement and ships the iKeyboard with the AWESOME layout QWERTY is not going away00:24
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GeneralAntillesMan, how awesome would it be to be able to type awesome with one hand?00:25
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ajalkaneWell, it's not going away overnight. But one generation is enough if they manage to push personal computers into fringe with all these new shitty replacements.00:25
GeneralAntillesBy the time PCs are gone we'll all have retinal implants.00:26
javispedrowith the AWESOME layout can also type incredible, beautiful, unbelievable, great, amazing, better, and easier with just one finger!00:26
ajalkaneI sure as hell want to be hacking away on cutting edge hardware/software by my 90's on my retinal implants.00:26
GeneralAntillesFunny side-note: Deus Ex: HR has an awful lot of PCs floating around when retinal implants are cheap and accessible.00:26
SpeedEviljavispedro: That is coming. Technology to let you enter a whole word with one keystroke00:27
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, do you remember that Onion ivdeo?00:27
SpeedEviljavispedro: The vkbd easily fits on a 43" display00:27
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/00:27
rm_workrofl yes, the one button laptop00:28
rm_worki loved that00:28
alteregoDONE IT!00:28
javispedroyeah, had to see it again =)00:28
alteregoSweet, got qt multimedia -> zbar decoding bar codes :D00:29
javispedroSpeedEvil: hopefully a mainstream tech by the time I get that 43'' screen on my phone ;)00:29
GeneralAntillesI love the pricing structure00:29
GeneralAntilles$2,598 for 8GB00:30
ajalkanehehe, onion ones in a while manages to get a great laugh00:30
GeneralAntilles$9,596 for 40GB00:30
GeneralAntillesajalkane, just once in a while?00:30
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.theonion.com/video/sony-releases-new-stupid-piece-of-shit-that-doesnt,14309/00:30
SpeedEvilAlso - meh - paywalls.00:30
alteregoSeems to be working much better now too ..00:30
SpeedEvilI mean - I like the onion and all - but not enough to go without fruit for a month.00:31
ajalkaneokay, onion makes me laugh more often than slashdot00:31
ajalkaneare all the funny stuff nowadays in videos in onion? :)00:31
GeneralAntillesMore of them.00:32
ajalkaneI feel old.00:32
GeneralAntillesThe print stuff is still good, though.00:32
GeneralAntillesLotta of it US-centric.00:32
ajalkaneI remember Onion was quite hilarious a decade or something like that ago. It's still good, but I rarely remember to read it.00:33
DocScrutinizerajalkane: Scotty:"computer!" <no answer> Pavel: "use the mouse, Scotty!"   Scotty grabs mouse, holds it like a microphone, says in stern voice "Computer!"...00:34
alteregoHe actually says "Hello Computer" :)00:35
javispedroIt's sad that's one of the few examples of someone getting right how computer interfaces change =)00:35
alteregoThat part always cracks me up00:35
alteregoHrm, now I need to generate my own QR code, hook this stuff to qml00:36
alteregoAnd initiate an offline app caching00:36
alteregoThen I have app download from qr code working :)00:37
DocScrutinizerand hell, is any of us faster than Scotty on that (from his POV) prehistoric keyboard, when he sketches transparent Aluminium in <15s, with ~7342 keystrokes/minute?00:40
* SpeedEvil looks at his boule of transparent aluminium.00:42
DocScrutinizeractually it seems like his first 5 keystrokes reconfigure the UI of that program into hyper-shortcut mode00:42
SpeedEvil(sapphire)00:42
ajalkaneThey don't make Scotties like that anymore, RIP.00:42
DocScrutinizeryeah :-/00:42
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* DocScrutinizer wonders why each $RANDOM 2D-barcode is caled QR-code nowadays00:44
alteregoyour face00:47
DocScrutinizerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcode#Matrix_.282D.29_barcodes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_Code00:49
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DocScrutinizer51you know true 3D-barcode is still one of the most promising storage technologies of the future?01:05
ajalkaneBut if the holographic principle holds true, maybe a 2d representations is the most promising approach of deep understanding of the 3D-barcode representation... It boggles the mind01:11
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DocScrutinizer51no, the pseudo-3D of 2D holographics is just a special kind of magnifying glass. True 3D storage uses holographic techniques on volumetric storae media01:16
ajalkaneI'm not sure which comes first, me in a wheelchair or that tech.01:17
ajalkaneActually me in a wheel chair is too easy a guess. But have humans visited Mars before 3D storage techs, that's a good puzzle.01:18
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SpeedEvil3D storage exists now.01:32
alteregoLooks like I*mve got a fair amount of work to do if I want access to raw video data, live using QtMobility.01:46
alteregoAh, think I know what I need to do now :)01:52
* javispedro tries to understand what the magic fmrx opcode does01:59
javispedro"0x3f 0x00 0xf3 0x88 0x01 0x01"01:59
javispedropfft.01:59
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GAN900Magic!02:23
SpeedEvilIf you look at it in ascii, it's xyzzy02:25
SpeedEvil(not really)02:25
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GeneralAntilleshttp://twitter.com/#!/joooe/status/110641702238294016 5.5 days of use on the MetaWatch.04:34
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GeneralAntilleshttp://www.engadget.com/2011/09/06/how-to-turn-a-spare-lcd-panel-into-a-working-monitor-for-33/04:55
GeneralAntillesI want an iPhone 4 display for my keyboard.04:55
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artemmLooks like Sep 15 +- a day is going to be N9 sales start - http://t.co/sWsbsjR09:38
artemmin Finland09:39
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dm8tbryeh, first public touch and all that09:58
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DocScrutinizeryawn10:15
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JaffaMorning, all11:29
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lardmanmorning Jaffa and everyone else11:33
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faenilGood morning everyooone :D11:41
lcukmorning \o11:41
Venemohey :)11:42
faenilso any news since 3 days ago?11:43
djszapifaenil: everybody got a new software, but no more left :)11:43
faenilI had uni exams on 5th and 6th so I've been away :)11:43
faenildjszapi: aahahhah11:43
faenildjszapi: u joking, right? lol11:44
faeniljavispedro: I am ready to test out the radio thing :)11:44
faenilI have read the forum post, but I'll wait for you if you need anything to be done11:45
djszapifaenil: he is not here ?11:45
faenillol, did not even check, he's always here :D11:45
faenilwell, I'm going to fix my bicycle then :) cya later :)11:46
hiemanshudjszapi: we are out of new software? BS, they haven't even started with new software :P11:50
Venemodjszapi is particularly jokey about new sw, especially when I'm also on this channel :P11:51
fluxvenemo, so it could be said.. you're djszapi's muse?11:53
Venemoflux, I think he got mad because I said about a thousand times on this channel:11:54
* Venemo wants new software for N95011:54
Venemo:P11:54
djszapi"C++0x will introduce the keyword constexpr, which allows the user to guarantee that a function or object constructor is a compile-time constant." -> mmm, this is good.11:54
Venemolamdas are better11:55
fluxdjszapi, unfortunately the functions allows are quite limited. iirc recursion is prohibited ;).11:58
flux(s/allows/allowed/)11:59
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djszapiflux: I have never really seen a need for that, just that what it actually solves.11:59
fluxdjszapi, it would limit evaluating actual algorithms involving looping during compile time12:00
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flux..of course, you can still use template magic for many things12:00
djszapialso, there is nothing written like that on the wikipage.12:00
djszapinot that I could put any rationale behind that claim.12:01
fluxindeed it doesn't seem to mention lack of recursion, but I'm still pretty sure that limitation has been mentioned elsewhere12:02
fluxI guess harmattan platform won't see constexpr for a while, though?-)12:03
djszapialso, templates were also improved a lot, for instance the external template anyways.12:03
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kkitohello13:30
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kkitoDo you know if flash plugin from n900 is working in firefox for the n950?14:04
djszapikkito no need for that, there is flash supported on newer images.14:05
Arkenoidjszapi, since which version? and does it work with builtin browser too?14:05
Venemo_N950how can I copypaste in harmattan's terminal?14:06
djszapiArkenoi: you mean with grob ?14:06
Arkenoiyes14:08
dm8tbrhttp://shootspeak.com/2011/06/29/fennec-gives-nokia-n9-the-ability-to-display-flash-content/14:09
Venemo_N950also, how can I open a pdf in harmattan?14:09
djszapiVenemo_N950 simple, "Documents".14:09
Venemo_N950djszapi, but it doesn't appear14:10
Venemo_N950djszapi, I wgeted it into MyDocs/Documents14:11
dm8tbrmight need a rerun of tracker?14:11
djszapi"does not appear" is poor answer, isn't it ? :)14:11
djszapidm8tbr: should not14:11
Venemo_N950well, I can't see the pdf in the Documents app14:12
djszapiVenemo_N950: if a graphical app does not work, it is always a good practice to run it from cli14:12
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Hq`I think the tracker only runs when the device has been idle for some time, so try to wait for a while...14:19
trxany suggestions on how i can dynamically populate a Menu component with items?14:19
kkitodjszapi: flash supported on  harmattan newer images?14:19
kkitoby the default webkit browser?14:20
djszapikkito: please read the aforementioned link.14:21
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DocScrutinizerdunno if it's already known: devel-su - user; ln -fs /usr/share/applications/meego-terminal.desktop /home/user/.local/share/applications/quicklaunchbar3.desktop; # change quicklauncher (4 icons) nr.4 search to terminal14:25
DocScrutinizertakes effect instantly14:26
RST38hDoc: Do you by any chance know an easy method to find out what is holding given package back from upgrading?14:26
Venemo_N950djszapi, problem solved, and it was my fault14:26
DocScrutinizeri.e. no reboot or anything needed14:26
RST38hWHAT quicklaunchbar? I do not see any =)14:27
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DocScrutinizereh?14:27
DocScrutinizerRST38h: sorry about "holding back" - nfc14:27
DocScrutinizerre "quicklaunchbar" - you're kidding, are you?14:28
RST38hnot kidding. what is it?14:29
DocScrutinizerthe 4-icon thingie showing up when you slide up a little and hold e.g the lockscreen14:30
DocScrutinizeror contacts screen14:30
RST38hAh really...14:31
RST38hnever got that14:31
* RST38h only using n950 for development so far14:31
matrixxhidden secret14:32
jreznikit's very well hidden :) I know it only from presentations and took some time to realize that it works only when some app is on14:32
leinirquicklauncher's kinda nice :)14:33
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djszapiDocScrutinizer: yeah, that is known. :)14:34
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DocScrutinizerdjszapi: ooh, so why didn't I find about it when searching FMC?14:35
DocScrutinizermaybe I shouldn't start another thread about it?14:35
djszapinot sure what you mean.14:37
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DocScrutinizernm, posted it to FMC anyway14:40
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DocScrutinizerbwahahaha wiki.meego.com search doesn't allow me to enter any searchtext14:43
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DocScrutinizerobviously another case of "this site been optimized for firefox"14:45
DocScrutinizersorry meego, I'm still not going to change to *your* favourite browser, so your site becomes usable14:46
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ArkenoiRST38h, iirc almostTI did keep state on fremantle?14:59
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RST38hArkenoi: yes it did15:06
Arkenoion harmattan it does not15:07
Arkenoiwow, and multiple instances are being open15:09
RST38hArkenoi: probably some aegis-related crap not letting it write into ~/.ati8515:09
DocScrutinizerRST38h: or maybe it writes there on exit?15:10
DocScrutinizer(like xchat)15:10
RST38hDoc: And why is that bad?15:11
DocScrutinizer(for xchat it's a known effect you should stop the program after doing any config changes you want to stay)15:11
hiemanshuRST38h: if it closes due to an error, you loose all settings15:11
RST38hDoc: In AlmostTI, press [2nd] [OFF]15:12
DocScrutinizerexactly15:12
hiemanshuor if you kill -9 or ^C15:12
DocScrutinizerwhere "error" is a normal shitdown as well15:12
RST38hDoc: or press top right corner, either will exit the app15:12
DocScrutinizershutdown LOL15:12
RST38hDoc,Arkenoi: I am more interested if AlmostTI works without Net connectivity15:12
RST38hBecause the Nokia guy says it crashes when parsing .qml file15:13
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djszapiis there any way on forum.meego.com to get notification if my post got replied ?15:17
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ajalkanedjszapi: you can get notifications for new replies on the topic.15:34
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djszapiajalkane: how ?15:40
ajalkanedjszapi: Thread tools -> Subscribe to this thread15:44
djszapiajalkane: that will report only if I got a reply, and not all the posts in a long thread ?15:46
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ajalkaneall posts in the topic. These forum softwares are poor at knowing its a reply to specific message (quick reply etc user related probs)15:50
djszapitoo bad :(15:50
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MohammadAGThe N950 warns you when storage is low, when you're recording a vid, that's a nice touch16:07
MohammadAG"10 minutes of video recording left, too low on storage" or something16:07
MohammadAGOn battery low, it stops recording, that's bad, imo16:08
macmaNehhh, thats weak16:17
macmaNreal coders wouldve triggered aegis self destruct instead of a simple warning16:18
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macmaNstop recording NOW... or ELSE16:18
* macmaN wants new N950 firmware16:18
macmaNor how was it the saying goes here16:19
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fiferboymgedmin, ping?18:17
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djszapiN9hi fiferboy18:20
fiferboydjszapi, hi18:21
fiferboydjszapiN9, aegis defeated my phone the other day18:34
fiferboyAnd I didn't realize the one click flasher formats the user storage by default :(18:35
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djszapififerboy: what do you mean by "defeated" ?18:36
RST38hfiferboy: bricked?18:37
fiferboyI was poking at meego-im-uiserver and got the "device is malfunctioning" screen18:37
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djszapififerboy: I do not see anything related to "aegis defeated" yet. Could you please ellaborate why you said "aegis defeated" ?18:39
djszapi(malfunctioning is system-software/service matter how they handle things)18:39
fiferboyIs it no aegis that gives you the malfunctioning screen?18:39
RST38hBTW, what prevents one from building a new kernel that has aegis disabled?18:39
RST38hsome kind of a flash lock?18:39
djszapiwhy are you asking the same questions every single day after getting the answers all the time ?18:40
fiferboydjszapi, I was under the impression that aegis controlled the malfunction screen18:40
djszapififerboy: nope, that is system-service/software18:40
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fiferboydjszapi, ah, I stand corrected18:41
djszapififerboy: I can even do that with a simple echo18:41
djszapior just running one binary.18:41
StskeepsRST38h: bug in bootloader18:42
fiferboydjszapi, Ok then I'm made at the system-service/software :)18:43
fiferboy*mad18:43
RST38hStskeeps:Fixable?18:44
StskeepsRST38h: yes, once you get fw upgrade18:44
djszapiN9well, you cannot be mad without proving that there is a bug somewhere because of foobar18:44
RST38hStskeeps: Uff...good18:44
fiferboydjszapiN9, no I'm mad that I did something stupid18:44
RST38hStskeeps: I cannot see how this shit can continue for long, frankly =(18:44
StskeepsRST38h: screw aegis(TM)18:45
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fiferboyAnd ended up losing all my photos18:45
RST38hStskeeps: Well, compiling it out is certainly more useful than endlessly bitching about it =(18:45
djszapiN9RST38h, please return your gadget and give it to those people who would die for one18:45
RST38hdjszapiN9: Thank you for your data input.18:46
djszapiN9and who could behave18:46
kimjuI'd left it in the kernel, just allow disabling the enforcing mode.18:46
RST38hyep18:46
RST38hSomebody said that completely cutting it out is impossible, but disabling should work18:46
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Stskeepsagreed, allow disabling enforcing should do the trick18:47
djszapiN9actually more people said gazillion times18:47
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RST38hStskeeps: BTW, a guy from Nokia said that QtQuick .qml parser goes to Internet (!) when parsing a .qml file and crashes if Internet is out18:48
RST38hStskeeps: The only reason I can thinkabout is for getting a schema, but it is stil very weird18:48
w00tuh? no18:48
StskeepsRST38h: schema for qml is insane, it's not xml18:48
StskeepsRST38h: i've just run qt components on a net-less device :P18:49
w00tit can access resources (qml, images, whatever) located over a network, but it doesn't *need* an internet connection, and doesn't access it by any sort of default18:49
Stskeepsso i doubt it's true18:49
RST38hStskeeps: the guy may have some internal firmware for all I know18:49
djszapiN9plain false18:49
StskeepsRST38h: please give his name so he can be locked in a sauna18:49
RST38hStskeeps: But it certainly sounds disturbing18:49
StskeepsRST38h: i can't recognise that, at least18:50
RST38hHeh, just tried myself with Net off - it crashes indeed18:50
RST38hNo,wrong. It's ok, my mistake18:51
djszapiN9yeah qt cpp code is also parsed over the network:D:d18:52
RST38hOk. Disabling Wifi. Running app. App runs.18:52
RST38hNow, causing the app to open a QML stack.18:53
RST38hIt starts bringing up WiFi, then dies.18:53
rm_workgah why do i suck so bad at cron18:53
RST38hStarting app with WiFi up, doing the same ting18:54
rm_worksomeone here a cron wizard (or at least know how to use it decently)?18:54
Stskeepswas this your weird MTF-QML-widgets mix?18:54
Stskeeps:P18:54
RST38hThe appshows QMLstack just fine.18:54
RST38hStskeeps:Nope18:54
artemmrm_work, there's cron.daily/hourly where you can put your scripts for cron18:54
rm_workartemm: ah i am using crontab -e18:54
RST38hStskeeps: Not using MTF. And the QWidget->QML transition is completely standard, just as the doctor ordered18:54
rm_workwhere is that18:55
RST38hStekeeps: So, WTF does QML want from the network???18:55
rm_workand does it work on only super recent versions of specific cron daemons?\18:55
artemmrm_work, the other day somebody told me there's no crontab in harmattan18:55
StskeepsRST38h: dunno, not sure about harmattan impl18:55
w00tfacebook app works fine without network, and it's QML, so... dunno what you're managing to do18:55
RST38hWeird, weird shit18:56
Stskeepsvalgrind the stuff?18:56
w00tmy own QML app also works fine without network18:56
rm_workartemm: ah i just mean, i general, not necessarily on Maemo18:56
RST38hWon'tfind network accesses18:56
RST38hYou probably mean trace18:56
w00tso again, not sure what you're doing :P18:56
rm_works/i gen/in gen/18:56
infobotrm_work meant: artemm: ah i just mean, in general, not necessarily on Maemo18:56
w00thow does it terminate?18:57
w00tregular exit, or abnormal18:57
RST38hwith a crash I think18:57
w00tgot a backtrace?18:57
RST38hw00t:try starting with network disabled18:57
w00tRST38h: I did18:57
RST38hNot yet18:57
w00tI have no network18:57
* w00t has to go, bbl18:58
djszapimmm...my n9 does not boot without network :)18:58
* RST38h applies proctological analysis18:59
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ajalkanefiferboy: any idea if your qml theming patch is getting green light?19:09
fiferboyajalkane, I haven't seen any progress on the merge request or bug report :(19:11
RST38hStskeeps: Ok, got it to segfault. Any idea how to make Harmattan drop cores?19:11
StskeepsRST38h: no19:11
* Stskeeps doesn't know much about harmattan beyond deep levels19:11
ajalkaneWell... hope for best for it to get into some future update19:12
fiferboyYeah, it seems to take a long time for anything to get into the mainline19:12
fiferboyProbably a lot of review and testing19:13
RST38hI now know for sure that it crashes in QML parser when the network is offline19:13
ajalkaneYeah, Nokia moves carefully. Understandable.19:13
RST38hJust need to get it to dump core =)19:13
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RST38hOk, got stack trace19:15
RST38hIt went into an endless recursion inside libQtDeclarative.so.4 and died there19:16
RST38hgdb says corrupt stack19:16
RST38hSo, who here has been screaming about Qt NEveR EVER going to the Net when parsing QML? :)19:17
artemmthat' funny19:17
artemmnot all the qt enabled device are going to be net-enabled19:17
artemme.g. car kits19:17
RST38hit is probably some bug they have got19:17
RST38hI have also got an strace of the whole thing19:18
artemmoh, well, you can certainly make such a qml that will go to net19:18
RST38hBut I have not19:18
artemmif you put image source to http19:18
artemmor if your JS file is on the web19:18
RST38hno images on http, in fact all images are stock19:18
artemmso it's your own qml with just local stuff19:18
RST38hcorrect19:18
artemmindeed, it shouldn't go to web :/19:18
artemmand you don't use webview, do you?19:19
RST38hNo.19:19
artemmsounds like a bug to me19:19
RST38hBTW, some troll is doing gettimeofday() all the time. Nobody told them it is not a good idea?19:19
artemmso u have crashes on desktop?19:19
RST38hyes.19:19
artemmis your network a corporate one?19:19
RST38hno.19:20
artemmwhat about proxy rules19:20
artemmany autoconfiguration there19:20
artemm?19:20
* RST38h sighs at artemm: why do you need to know all this?19:20
RST38hAre you gonna fix QtDeclarative.so?19:20
artemmGot a small idea that maybe even though you are accessing local file it still tries to resolve proxy rules and if proxy rules are on the net..19:21
artemmRST38h, nope, but everybody can file a bug19:21
RST38hNo,it does not19:21
artemmas long as the reason is clear19:21
RST38hthey will not fix it though19:21
artemmoh well, I don't have further ideas despite being interested19:21
RST38hat least not if you file it via publicly available channels19:21
djszapiN9artemm the problem is that nobody can reproduce it19:24
artemmit's a pity19:24
artemmthough Qt guys are into not releasing shit and I'd expect extra attention to that serious issue even if it's rare19:25
RST38hI am sure you can reproduce it19:25
RST38hAnyone needs a QML file?19:25
RST38hhttp://fms.komkon.org/Config.qml  <== Enjoy!19:26
djszapiN9artemm this guy told that qml parsing happens over ethernet, it is plain false19:27
RST38hThis is not what I have said though19:28
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RST38hI have said that QML parser for some reason requires network connection and crashes on .qml file parse when connection is off19:28
RST38hI have also given you the .qml file in question.19:28
Venemo_N950RST38h, if that is true, then it's ridiculous19:29
RST38hSo, why are you continue bitching, djszapiN9?19:29
artemmhey, you've got a single qml for reproduction, submit a bug then19:29
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RST38hartemm: Thanks for advice.19:29
thansenis this a place where I can ask about this stuff... http://api.maps.ovi.com/devguide/overview.html19:29
artemmIt was intended to be more of a cheer up than an advice19:29
RST38hDo not need cheering up, thanks.19:29
artemmEven if QML parser needed internet (which I find hard to believe) it must not crash in such a normal situation for a mobile phone as no connection19:30
Venemo_N950agreed19:30
* RST38h has no idea wtf that parser is doing19:31
RST38hBut gdb indicates that it either goes into infinite recursion in libQtDeclarative or corrupts stack there19:31
Venemo_N950RST38h, have you found this on an N950?19:31
RST38hYes.19:31
RST38hVenemo: In fact, download .qml file from the URL above and try for yourself19:32
Venemo_N950well, my QML app runs happily without any connection19:32
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kkitoDo you know how to create a qml listview like the "contacts" listview?19:32
RST38hMight bit some component19:32
RST38hs/bit/be19:32
RST38hOne of these:19:32
RST38himport QtQuick 1.119:32
RST38himport Qt.labs.components 1.019:32
RST38himport Qt.labs.folderlistmodel 1.019:32
RST38himport com.nokia.meego 1.019:32
tomma_ListView + your delegate19:33
evilJazzRST38h, if you start to disable unnecessary parts in your code, does it still happen?19:34
djszapiI do not care about QML file, I care about steps to reproduce.19:34
djszapiQML file is just one of them. I will not investigate more than trying the steps out.19:35
evilJazzjust wondering, tried my rather big app in Flight mode on the device and it is starting just fine, however I am not using  Qt.labs.components and Qt.labs.folderlistmodel19:35
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RST38heviljazz: All parts in my code are necessary19:35
RST38hdjszapi: Have I asked you to investigate?19:35
djszapiyour issue is invalid until it cannot be reproduced.19:36
evilJazzRST38h, well, just to pinpoint the issue. Perhaps starting with the settings, trimming down the delegate etc.19:36
* RST38h sighs again: your own coworker from Nokia reported the damn issue to me19:36
djszapiit can*19:36
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RST38hBut ok, lemme humor you19:36
RST38h1. Download http://fms.komkon.org/EmuMeego/ati85_1.5.1-1_armel.deb19:37
RST38h2. Install with dpkg19:37
RST38h3. Run AlmostTI by clicking on the icon19:37
djszapisorry, but after your tone, I do not even care about it.19:37
RST38h4. Pull down the control panel and disable WiFi19:37
RST38h5. Click on the top left corner of AlmostTi and select TI8319:37
RST38h6. Watch it crash19:37
RST38hIf you do not care about it, then why do you continue bitching about me reporting this problem?19:38
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evilJazzRST38h, I had big trouble with the Flickable and nested ListViews. Figured out, it was not my code at all, but changes in 4.7.4. I was able to reduce my code to a small test case, which I filed a bug report with on Sunday. Martin Jones already fixed the issue yesterday. Pretty cool. Hope to see the fix in one of the updates.19:39
RST38hTo run it under gdb, run as follows:19:39
RST38hgdb /opt/ati85/ati8519:39
RST38hset args -home /opt/ati8519:39
RST38hrun19:39
RST38h(same steps in the UI, see it crash)19:39
evilJazzRST38h, will try in about 15 mins, gotta eat first19:39
RST38hBtw, if anyone has -dev version of QtDeclarative installed on their device, please, do run the above gdb test case and see what 'bt' says19:40
djszapibt is useless compared to valgrind19:40
djszapiit actually crashes for me with and without internet19:42
djszapias for me, it is still invalid.19:42
djszapiit is completely network independent here.19:42
RST38hworks fine with wifi up here19:43
RST38halso works for other people with N950s19:43
djszapialso, you can use gdb --args ... btw19:43
djszapiI cannot run it from gdb, nothing happens.19:45
djszapiexcept this: Starting program: /opt/ati85/ati85 -home /opt/ati8519:45
djszapi[Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]19:45
djszapino ui opened at all..19:45
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RST38hrun as a user.19:45
RST38hdon't run as root if you have aegis enabled19:45
djszapirunning as user again did not help19:45
RST38hok. run /usr/bin/run-ati85 from command line as a user, see what happens19:46
djszapisorry, but please try to provide steps that it can be reproduced with.19:46
RST38hSee above.19:47
djszapiI cannot reproduce it that way.19:47
RST38hSorry.19:47
djszapiahh wait19:49
djszapiI tried mobile internet19:49
djszapinot wifi.19:50
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djszapi(that was the default connection here)19:50
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djszapiok, same with wi-fi as well19:51
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RST38h"research in high performance computing with Ruby"... mhm19:54
djszapiyes, because that is the slowest script language.19:54
djszapiat least one of them19:54
djszapiRST38h: at any rate, please me know the outcome of this issue whenever it happens, please.19:56
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evilJazzRST38h, I can reproduce the problem here in Flight Mode. Once I switch to TI83, it asks whether to enable Wifi, I click "No" and I see a black screen. The app doesn't actually crash. Once I try to close it via the task switcher screen the default TI85 display returns again.20:10
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npmi was looking at output of '/opt/QtSDK/Madde/bin/mad list' and saw  "rx71-harmattan-1122  (installable)" --> what is this?20:17
npmoh nevermind it's the simulator i didn't install, right?20:17
npmis there any reason to have both "harmattan-nokia-meego-api  (installed)" and "harmattan-platform-api     (installed)" ?20:19
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tomma_npm, nokia-meego-api does not have all things platform-api has20:27
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tomma_well atleast old versions didn't20:27
tomma_CONFIG+=shareuiinterface-maemo-meegotouch didn't work with harmattan-nokia-meego-api20:29
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RST38hOk. I have run ines (for simplicity) with and without network and dumped two straces20:31
RST38hlet us see what diff says20:31
npmtomma_: so the nokia-meego-api target is just there for API compat w/ meego and n9/n950 devs should just use harmattan-platform-api20:35
npmso people wanting to save space or not have extra targts that need to be manually switched in qtcreator can just skip installing nokia-meego-api right?20:36
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RST38hHmmm, without WiFi it tries opening the same .qml file twice20:44
RST38hand coredumps on the second open20:44
RST38hah, I think I have found it. Weird, weird crap20:48
* frals smashes head against QtSDK20:48
fralsso the brilliant simulator works, but fuck me if it would include qt-components20:48
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artemmIf a harmattan app needs to download some files from internet and keep it for its own purposes, what would be the sane location for it?21:16
berndhsartemm: xdg data location ?21:19
artemmI am just not very familiar with default locations for anything in unix21:19
artemmapp is to download a picture from the web21:19
artemmlater I'll probably manipulate it and replace one wallpaper with it21:19
berndhsnormal place is ${HOME}.local/share/21:20
berndhsthat's what you get when you ask Qt for the data location21:20
berndhsand it is set in ${HOME}/.profile21:20
berndhsso if you ask Qt, you don't have to know if you're on linux or something else21:21
artemmshould there  be subfolder with application's name?21:21
artemmor something like this21:21
artemmnot to mess with the other app files21:21
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berndhsyes21:21
berndhsapplication name, or if the applications are in groups, Qt usues organization name21:22
berndhslike Nokia, TrollTech,...21:22
artemmaha, thanks21:22
berndhshaving said all that21:22
berndhsHarmattan specifies the data location as .local/share21:22
berndhsand also says you should put data in MyDocs21:23
berndhsthis is bug 387 :)21:23
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=387 maj, High, ---, martin.xu, VERI FIXED, Enable/disable WIFI device may cause ConnMan crash if a WIFI group hidden network is connected21:23
berndhsno not meego bug21:23
berndhsharmattan API bug21:23
artemmoh21:23
berndhsthe bot is confused :)21:23
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artemmso I should ignore qt's data location and just put to ~/.local/share/myAppName ?21:24
artemmsorry, got confused21:24
berndhsat the moment, Qt says ~/.local/share/myAppName21:25
artemmoh, that sounds right21:25
berndhswhich is the standard way of xdg21:25
berndhsbut harmattan gives 2 mutually exclusive answers21:25
berndhsits not you who is confused :)21:26
artemmwell, that sounds good enough, I am not going to store gigabates of data. If the location given by Qt is along at least some *nix convention, it should be good enough21:26
artemmby asking qt for data location, do you mean using QSettings with some proper key?21:27
berndhssounds reasonable to me21:27
berndhsit not settings, its something else21:27
berndhshttp://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.8-snapshot/qdesktopservices.html#storageLocation21:28
berndhsthat one I think21:28
berndhsand also ~/.profile21:28
artemmreading21:28
artemmI guess using QDesktopServices is more sane than reading environment variables21:29
berndhsi think so21:29
artemmand hell knows under which shell app is started21:29
berndhsright21:29
artemmso .profile may not be executed21:29
berndhsQDesktopService is more portable21:30
artemmThanks a lot, QDesktopServices::DataLocation looks like what I need21:30
RST38hPROBLEM SOLVED21:31
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* artemm looks at the file download example and wonders whether its simpler to ask system to download file via wget or something similar21:39
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npm re putting files into ... ~/.local/share/myAppName what about using ~/.config/myAppName ??22:28
npmisn't that a standard loc, or is that inappropriate for DLing files?22:29
npmin other words can't ones app put all files in ~/.config/<appname> instead of having ~/.local/share/<appname> AND ~/.config/<appname>22:29
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MohammadAGsigh22:31
MohammadAGI need Windows under Linux or Linux under Windows22:31
fralsvirtualbox and seamless mode <322:31
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npmMohammadAG: I had to use windows under qemu to submit an application to intel appup http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/uploading-to-appup-running-windows-IE-and-silverlight-under-qemu.png22:36
artemmnpm: config sounds like place for settings, etc22:36
MohammadAGfrals, when you have a big ass HDD22:36
MohammadAGI already filled my 500GBs22:36
artemmand then anyway if i can ask Qt for the data location, probably it's the best22:36
MohammadAGI know! I need a mac!22:36
* MohammadAG hides22:36
MohammadAGartemm, what are you storing?22:36
artemmimage22:37
MohammadAGtemporary?22:37
artemmI am going to replace wallpaper on schedule22:37
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MohammadAGoh nvm22:37
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artemmneed some place for file storage22:37
MohammadAGif it's temporary use CacheLocation22:37
artemmnot sure how temporary it is22:37
artemmI may need to keep them for a day or a week22:37
MohammadAGyeah, use DataLocation for your purpose22:37
npm these aren't local settings /home/npm/.config/google-chrome/Default/Local Storage22:38
artemmIf I figure I want history22:38
MohammadAGit's actually just /home/$user/.cache22:38
artemmwell, I'll start with what Qt gives22:38
MohammadAGI'm not sure where data location is22:38
MohammadAGartemm, just a tip22:38
MohammadAGI noticed this after hours of trying22:38
MohammadAGQDesktopServices returns a string22:38
MohammadAGthe directory won't exisst22:38
artemmoh22:39
artemmthanks22:39
artemmwill keep in mind22:39
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artemmgot to leave now22:39
npmand qtcreator stores files in .config too /home/npm/.config/Nokia/qtcreator/generic-highlighter22:39
MohammadAGQString dir = QDesktopServices::storageLocation(QDesktopServices::DataLocation);22:39
MohammadAGQDir dirObject = QDir(dir);22:39
npmso i'm not going to change my code to stick stuff in .local/share/<appname> :-)22:39
MohammadAGif (!dirObject.exists())22:39
MohammadAGdirObject.mkpath(dir);22:39
artemmgot it22:40
MohammadAGnpm, .config is used by QSettings22:40
artemmwill use .config if data location is bad22:40
MohammadAGno, that's for QSettings :P22:40
npmso will an app be in violation if it stores all it's local stuff in ~/.config ??22:41
MohammadAGno, since Gtk apps use that sometimes22:41
MohammadAGbut .config is naturally for inis, not images22:41
MohammadAGit's just wrong22:41
npmok, so i guess i won't worry about it being for qsettings22:41
MohammadAGI'm not sure if it's backed up22:42
MohammadAGif it is, I expect users to have larger backups :p22:42
npmi'm not thinking about images as much as say sql database storage related to app22:42
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MohammadAGoh, that's fine then22:42
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MohammadAGcuteTube does that22:43
npmexactly the app i'm thinking of22:43
npm~/.config/cutetube/Databases/63db502ea46fc7fe74e01e615d2c00d6.sqlite22:43
MohammadAGthough I'm not sure why cuteTube uses sqlite for settings22:43
MohammadAGoh, could be usernames22:44
berndhsthe xdg standard is well accepted, putting things in .config and .local, and also widely ignored :)22:44
npmMohammadAG: yes, it stores user/passwords for one22:46
npmsee http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1_11_2.tar.gz http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1_11_2.i586.rpm http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1.11.1_armel.deb22:49
npm^^ my fork22:49
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kkitohello23:07
kkitoDo you know in what package are https://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/View_Headers.html ?23:08
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