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| lardman | any ideas on how to get a pro file to build a binary that is not under /usr/local/ ? | 00:23 |
|---|---|---|
| lardman | I was assuming qmake PREFIX=/usr | 00:24 |
| djszapi | INSTALLPREFIX=/usr ? | 00:26 |
| kimju | \o/ - working menu entry in meego-terminal to force it to stay on landscape/stay on portrait/follow device orientation | 00:26 |
| djszapi | mmh, PREFIX should do the trick. | 00:28 |
| kimju | next up, enabling/disabling the special key input bar. | 00:28 |
| mikhas | kimju, grep for MInputMethodState | 00:29 |
| djszapi | lardman: use cmake and -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr :p | 00:29 |
| lardman | for Qt stuff djszapi ? | 00:29 |
| djszapi | yup | 00:30 |
| lardman | hmm, ok | 00:30 |
| lardman | it is possible with qmake though, as I've done it before | 00:30 |
| djszapi | http://klatexformula.sourceforge.net/klfwiki/index.php/User_Manual:Qmake_compilation_options | 00:31 |
| * lardman doesn't like being defeated | 00:31 | |
| lardman | ah, needed to edit the pro file | 00:33 |
| djszapi | DESTDIR = $$(PWD) | 00:34 |
| djszapi | message(The project will be installed in $$DESTDIR) | 00:34 |
| djszapi | I think qmake is one serious weakness of Qt. | 00:36 |
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| mikhas | wow, Madde really tries hard to be stupid | 00:40 |
| mikhas | debian/tmp/home/michael/local/qt-sdk/Madde/sysroots/harmattan-nokia-meego-arm-sysroot-1122-slim/usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/features/miniature-game.prf | 00:40 |
| mikhas | this is where it puts the prf file | 00:40 |
| mikhas | as if that would match the directory structure on the N950 | 00:40 |
| djszapi | it reminds for scratchbox :) | 00:41 |
| djszapi | * me | 00:41 |
| djszapi | There are also things like that over there. | 00:41 |
| mikhas | it is | 00:41 |
| mikhas | that is the insane part about it | 00:41 |
| mikhas | they wanted to get rid of sbox … by wrapping it with a dumb tool | 00:41 |
| djszapi | I could never really managed in scratchbox to find the right FindFooBar.cmake module since it puts into some heuritics place inside the debian folder :/ | 00:42 |
| mikhas | well, I actually get along with sbox | 00:42 |
| mikhas | that's why Madde's stupidity is extra harsh for me | 00:42 |
| mikhas | productivity killer | 00:42 |
| mikhas | and I only try to get it to work because it comes with that Qt SDK | 00:43 |
| djszapi | ohh it is just one small example of the scratchbox things, but already annoying | 00:43 |
| mikhas | so that others (not even me!) can compile my project | 00:43 |
| djszapi | the perl situation is even much worse. | 00:43 |
| djszapi | but it is also true for the whole qemu emulation and others. | 00:45 |
| djszapi | I could never build a package with few or more test cases inside scratchbox without force disable of the test runs, which is ... not nice :) | 00:47 |
| mikhas | and of course, debian install files dont allow for regex | 00:47 |
| mikhas | hate hate hate | 00:47 |
| djszapi | they do ? | 00:48 |
| mikhas | really? | 00:48 |
| djszapi | really. | 00:48 |
| mikhas | *.prf did not work | 00:48 |
| mikhas | to match above | 00:48 |
| djszapi | that is not because of regexp is forbidden | 00:48 |
| djszapi | well, I always use wild cards for version things for instance. | 00:48 |
| djszapi | so versions. Always worked. | 00:48 |
| mikhas | the debian manual doesn't think it is important to tell me what kind of regex it uses | 00:49 |
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| djszapi | well, I use what is used by bash things, like grep, find and so forth | 00:52 |
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| lardman | so how do I add extra files to a package with dpkg-buildpackage? | 00:55 |
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| lardman | e.g. headers | 00:55 |
| lardman | even better, how does one create a -dev package? | 00:56 |
| djszapi | lardman: add an entry in the control file and create the relevant install file | 00:56 |
| lardman | ah, control file was the missing link | 00:56 |
| lardman | thanks djszapi | 00:56 |
| djszapi | you can also play with symbols file, if there is a need for that, but I would avoid that, if you do not have that much time :) | 00:57 |
| lardman | nah, just need to package up some headers into a -dev package | 01:00 |
| djszapi | lardman: are you familiar with rpm packaging, btw ? | 01:01 |
| lardman | nope | 01:01 |
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| lardman | oh I do hate packaing | 01:06 |
| lardman | hmm# | 01:07 |
| lardman | I hate packaging | 01:07 |
| lardman | added entry to control file, added .install file matching that name, no package | 01:07 |
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| djszapi | what did you run then ? | 01:08 |
| djszapi | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot ? | 01:08 |
| lardman | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot | 01:08 |
| djszapi | show the control file ? | 01:09 |
| lardman | hmm, I may be wrong, I have a package but no temp dir created under debian | 01:09 |
| lardman | I may hve spoken too soon | 01:10 |
| lardman | nope, just the docs included in the -dev package | 01:11 |
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| leinir | gah... QSoundEffect(pulseaudio): Error decoding source | 01:16 |
| kimju | hmm, I don't see any way to hide the toolbar in docs, only unregister it completely. | 01:16 |
| mikhas | lardman, does your qmake project file INSTALLS += target ? | 01:21 |
| lardman | yes mikhas it does | 01:22 |
| lardman | do I need to add another target? | 01:23 |
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| lardman | What I never understood is how one goes from the *.install file paths to the actual build tree paths | 01:26 |
| lardman | or is it just vey intelligent? | 01:26 |
| lardman | very | 01:27 |
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| lardman | laptop battery about to run out, seems like a good time to head for bed | 01:29 |
| lardman | night all | 01:29 |
| djszapi | lardman: it is much of difficult mapping..You are basically just deciding what to really install. You can overwrite the paths and such, but normally it is really straight-forward | 01:29 |
| djszapi | * not much of .. | 01:29 |
| lardman | djszapi: will have a chat to you tomorrow if you're about | 01:29 |
| lardman | as it's not working for me atm | 01:29 |
| djszapi | sleep well :) | 01:30 |
| lardman | anyway must head off before battery dies completely | 01:30 |
| lardman | night! | 01:30 |
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| seif | still no new on the next updatE? | 02:09 |
| djszapi | seif: maybe the end of september | 02:10 |
| seif | djszapi, so notwitter support coming out ? | 02:10 |
| djszapi | or october, but it is just a guess work | 02:10 |
| djszapi | sorry ? | 02:10 |
| seif | my harmattan on n950 does not support twitter accounts yet | 02:12 |
| djszapi | I am not sure I can talk about what it will support, sorry ... | 02:13 |
| djszapi | mmm, since I can use my N9 outside with PR image..well, it certainly has twitter. | 02:13 |
| djszapi | seif: I think it is not a big deal to get it working though. | 02:14 |
| seif | yeah my pr image is for n950 | 02:15 |
| seif | i wanted to know if there is an image update soon | 02:15 |
| djszapi | I think they will ship one with the release. Someone linked a page today here with the date, September for that | 02:18 |
| djszapi | but it is just guess-work :) | 02:21 |
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| rm_you | hrm | 02:36 |
| rm_you | so rebooting didn't fix my blank call window problem | 02:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: >>Departed Facility in TEL AVIV - ISRAEL Monday, August 01, 2011 19:03 << \o/ | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: seems they transport from tel aviv to LOD with bike, or taking a walk | 03:08 |
| * GeneralAntilles yawns. | 03:10 | |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, yeah, testing Sports Tracker | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: so seems your deadline 08-03 will be the date. Dunno if it's the last day to pick it up, or the first day you're not at home | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: hush! you're several TZ behind, you're not allowed to yawn right now ;-D | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Long day | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whew | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | how do I get the fqn of a file? except from concatenating CWD with the relative filename | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | shell | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | dirname and readlink all are not helpful, even for "see also:" in manpages | 03:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | stat -c %N x #also not what I need | 03:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | Is that a valid question? | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I point at various files in /sys with multiple paths | 03:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | dang, isn't there any function/executabe that, on ># themagicls ~/../B/x; replies >> /home/B/x | 03:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mmmpff! I probably could compare inode number of the file in question, and a given FQN path I want to know if it's same file or not | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | is there any tool that lists all hardlinks pointing to a file? | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think it's possible to do that. | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Other than with find, or something like tracker. | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably a dang heavy tool, it had to ls -lr / and compare the inode numbers | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | There is no 'stat' that spits out all of the directories the file is in, or its names, as that's not held in the file inode. | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah find | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | find / -inum 764634 | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | is probably what I look for | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | or -samefile :-D | 03:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway unless I find out what's "A 0 0 33061" in (grep -v "A 0 0 33" ) /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ... :-S | 03:50 |
| SpeedEvil | inode 33061? | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, thought that as well first, but it's either a group ID, or a permissions bitset | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | S 15 com.nokia.maemo H 40 a68426a5b1586cccd918bbb63798c43ca26b7a8d A 0 0 35309 P 22 energy-profiler-server R 30 usr/bin/energy-profiler-server | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | S 15 com.nokia.maemo H 40 871ed0d45e694039478e651295861fb3ec1080fd A 0 0 35309 P 8 libc-bin R 16 usr/lib/pt_chown | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - the long string is obviously a hash | 03:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sring length:15 com.nokia.maemo Hash length:40 871ed0d45e694039478e651295861fb3ec1080fd A??? 0 0 35309 Package length:8 libc-bin Reference length:16 usr/lib/pt_chown | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | in the whole 700some kB refhashlist there are EIGHT lines not matching "A 0 0 33" | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | flags indeed | 03:56 |
| rm_you | so rebooting didn't fix my blank call window problem, any thoughts? | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/124816/ | 03:56 |
| SpeedEvil | There should possibly be a packagename in there too for eavh file | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually it seems like 33261 and 33188 are the only sets of flags(?) used | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Different signers? | 03:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer checks /etc/groups | 03:58 | |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, I guess that's aegis permissions | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | the whole hashlist was useless if it wasn't for telling aegis WHAT to do with those files | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | the 3 ints suggest U G O | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Seems logical. | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's exactly ONE line with G!=0 | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | err 2 | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | S 15 com.nokia.maemo H 40 838157fee92ca7a8df6c093dea9079145a3ed2f3 A 0 30021 34285 P 14 openssh-client R 17 usr/bin/ssh-agent | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | S 15 com.nokia.maemo H 40 9465b53d341467bfe43b7975b488dd61cc2dde32 A 0 30018 35181 P 21 sdk-connectivity-tool R 18 usr/sbin/devrootsh | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | setgid() ? | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro once deduced about missing setgid perm for bash, from a aegis diagnostic printout in syslog | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | wish I could find where from he got the bit meanings | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmmm - Aegis: credp_kcheck failed 9990004 bash - is 7 digits | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | while hashlist flags(?) are 5 | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | man 5 refhashlist !!!1!!1!!!!@#%&&!!1 | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | grrrr | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# cat /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist|wc -l | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | 5546 | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ehmmm | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | S 0 H 40 0b2879714e842125406fcee56f7c8881475dbc05 A 0 0 33261 P 2 mc R 30 opt/mc/libexec/mc/extfs.d/uace | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | S 0 H 40 c31fe5dda65c9e711364a26c10a72bd53069d9bc A 0 0 33188 P 2 mc R 28 opt/mc/etc/mc/edit.indent.rc | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | S 0 H 40 e4bbe0cd6120fa1287fcd3ed8a298fe81ce6e89f A 0 0 33261 P 2 mc R 29 opt/mc/libexec/mc/fish/unlink | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | S 0 H 40 d62804c56054aa03ce38d09ea4d308d983f288db A 0 0 33261 P 2 mc R 30 opt/mc/libexec/mc/extfs.d/ulha | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | fun bit: one file got other flags(?) | 04:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmmmmm, edited opt/mc/etc/mc/edit.indent.rc, started mc, no issues at all, not even any logs in syslog | 04:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | refhashlist record for the file didn't change though, ergo it can't be correct now | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | maybe it will now blow up if something tries to exec() the file when it wouldn't before. | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | let's try it :-D | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/124818/ | 04:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, I always get "permission denied" when I try to run those scripts as root | 04:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# su - user | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | su: can't set groups: Operation not permitted | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | as user as well | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/124819/ you can't execute shellscripts. GREAT! | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, while in develsh | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/124820/ | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | I wonder how often they poke the RDA devices to see if anyones bricked them | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 04:39 |
| MohammadAG | daily | 04:39 |
| MohammadAG | or every other day | 04:40 |
| MohammadAG | I broke an N97 mini once | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | there should probably a button "reflash" in the GUI ;-D | 04:40 |
| MohammadAG | Aegis, protecting kids from internet porn since 2011 | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | +be | 04:40 |
| MohammadAG | sh: ./xxx: Operation not permitted | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | you've been told not to play doctor games! operations are always not permitted | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | and xxx operations even more | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | this friggin aegis crap gives me headaches | 04:44 |
| MohammadAG | i'm going to sleep | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | e.g. what is develsh, what does it do and why can it do what it does? | 04:44 |
| MohammadAG | my N950 better be here when I wake up | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 04:45 |
| rm_you | so rebooting didn't fix my blank call window problem, any thoughts? :P | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | restful dreams! | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | yet none | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | rm_you: I guess it's simply a bug | 04:46 |
| rm_you | yeah, but how do I FIX it | 04:46 |
| rm_you | lol | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe even a race | 04:46 |
| rm_you | it worked at first | 04:47 |
| rm_you | for like the first week | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | the REFLASH! | 04:47 |
| rm_you | lol | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | then* | 04:47 |
| rm_you | that's not a good solution | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: | 04:47 |
| rm_you | because if i don't figure out the problem, it will probably keep happening | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't see any alternative | 04:47 |
| rm_you | not reasonable to reflash every week | 04:47 |
| rm_you | i don't have a problem reflashing | 04:47 |
| rm_you | but you see the problem, no? | 04:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Kill yourself. | 04:48 |
| * GeneralAntilles coughs. | 04:48 | |
| rm_you | lol GA | 04:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | It requires blood sacrifice. | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, you must reflash and then be alert about the steps causing the problem again | 04:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's how Elop is powered. | 04:48 |
| rm_you | DocScrutinizer: but i know every single action i took before it started | 04:48 |
| rm_you | and none of them seem related | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | then reflash and redo | 04:48 |
| rm_you | and see if it breaks again? | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | irrelevant what seems related | 04:49 |
| rm_you | lol | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | either it's reproducable by your steps, or it's heissenbug | 04:49 |
| rm_you | lol | 04:50 |
| rm_you | n950 has quantum processor | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | rm_you: look, it might be a random flipped bit in flash. it might be proximity sensor broken after one week. or it *might* be actually caused by your unrelated steps done during last week | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody but you can find out | 04:52 |
| rm_you | lol | 04:52 |
| rm_you | yeah | 04:52 |
| rm_you | i prolly will | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | and your only chance is reflash | 04:52 |
| rm_you | i'm going to investigate | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp when you claim your steps are "unrelated" | 04:53 |
| rm_you | what was that utility package | 04:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even you seem to have an idea where to look and what for | 04:53 |
| rm_you | there was a util package someone mentioned earlier | 04:53 |
| rm_you | useful for debugging these sorts of issues | 04:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably script (1) - make typescript of terminal session | 04:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bisect down to the one instruction/action that triggers the bug, then we'll be wiser | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | but first: reflash and see if the bug vanishes | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | to ruke out it's been always there or a hw defect | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | rule* | 04:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Does anyone know where to get large ferrite bars cheaply? I'm wondering about ones similar to the ones in my induction cooker for containing the field on the underside. | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | or ignore the whole issue - if your app you're developing isn't related to making calls, you just as well can ignore the whole thing | 05:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Argh | 05:00 |
| rm_you | no, it was a util to actually see the inner workings of an active Qt window | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's called gdb ;-P | 05:01 |
| Termana | morning | 05:01 |
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| ieatlint | anyone looked much into changing the standby/lock screen? | 05:09 |
| ieatlint | or more specifically, where the image file is located/configured | 05:09 |
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| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer, ieatlint, dm8tbr: you could always use a universal battery charger around when such things happen - http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Rom8-Z_zd0o/TeCwEokQMvI/AAAAAAAACJA/FxK7PeL8FbU/s640/Universal+Battery+Charger.jpg | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | yoh | 06:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | but... does it come with TX4? ;-D | 06:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | seriously, this MUST NOT happen | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~2119 | 06:25 |
| infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | the less on a device with "no user servicable parts inside" | 06:25 |
| hiemanshu | yes it MUST NOT happen, and hasn't happened for me either when my battery drained like 5-6 times now, though my N900 has gone crazy, but thats a different story | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | imagine this happening on N9 | 06:26 |
| hiemanshu | 'hey darling, I think I broke my N9' 'Naah the battery just died and nokia didn't care enough to fix the issue, let me charge it up for you' | 06:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | the service points will need automatic coffee machines and little paper cups. And a corner with armchairs for the waiting customers ;-P | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | hammocks, drinks, and a hula band | 06:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I bet no developer ever let his N9 sit for 4 weeks with a depleted battery, then tried to start charging it. Odds are the cell (self)depleted enough during those 4 weeks to deadlock the device | 06:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but hey, why am I telling this now, rather than publishing it crypted on my blog, and publish the decrypt key with a big HAHA, wehn the first 10.000 N9 returned to service for charging? | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | I offered free hw review, Nokia wasn't interested. A bit of sarcasm may be ok, no? | 06:37 |
| twoboxen | ugh… this security policy makes it a huge pain in the ace to dev for the n950 | 06:38 |
| twoboxen | wtf root doesn't have permission to delete a file with user/users ownership | 06:38 |
| hiemanshu | heh well no, they wont be interested in anything, because they uhmm, dont care much about it | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | twoboxen: welcome to the wonderful world of AEGIS | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~aegis | 06:38 |
| infobot | [aegis] http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism | 06:38 |
| twoboxen | where is my sudo gain root that actually works | 06:39 |
| twoboxen | i'm about to say f. this… it's difficult EVERY step of the way | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | inexistent | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | twoboxen: welcome to the club, I already got tired with ranting :-D | 06:40 |
| twoboxen | :) | 06:40 |
| twoboxen | if they are going to abandon this platform, at least give us a way to get FULL dev mode | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | twoboxen: you missed the best yet [2011-07-31 21:28:21] <DocScrutinizer> I'm going to eventually document on wiki: "aegis is protecting arbitrary files from editing/deleting/renaming/chmod. You have no means to know if a file is protected that way. Touching such a file will possibly result in bricking and need for a reflash of complete system. That's the situation and you either deal with it or forget about harmattan, as nobody is going | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | to do anything about it to fix this permanent threat" Maybe NOT - CBA | 06:42 |
| twoboxen | so true | 06:43 |
| twoboxen | DocScrutinizer: I know I was counting on qole's easy debian. and he is pissed as well | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | the evil notorious aegis selfdestruction function | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Aegis-kills-device.jpg | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you're about to "say f. this" - I'm a tad further over the edge | 06:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://dz015.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-or-python-security-fw-and-harmattan/ | 06:50 |
| twoboxen | DocScrutinizer: meaning, you already said 'f this' | 06:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>After installing the package, do NOT modify the installed files if they request a token. Security FW will discover an unexpected change in the file and lock the device (ops! reflash).<< | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/files/python scripts/ | 06:52 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: >>After installing the package, do NOT modify the installed python scripts if they request a token. Security FW will discover an unexpected change in the file and lock the device (ops! reflash).<< | 06:52 |
| twoboxen | are there any petitions or forums where people are staging a protest? WTF does Nokia care what we do? | 06:52 |
| twoboxen | they didn't for the n900 | 06:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer hands over the banner to twoboxen, sighs, yawns, and waves | 06:53 | |
| twoboxen | WebOS is a lot nicer… webos<somedate> and you get ACTUAL dev access… openssh, root access, etc. See? The users who do that know what they are getting into | 06:53 |
| twoboxen | DocScrutinizer: So what platform are you moving to now? :) | 06:53 |
| hiemanshu | wp | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | staying at fremantle for now (and next few years) | 06:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | never been interested in N9 anyway | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | eventually Samsung might come up with sth similar to maemo, which is *not* bada | 06:55 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: do you know what bada means? | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | wave, or sea, or sth | 06:55 |
| hiemanshu | bada is big in hindi | 06:56 |
| hiemanshu | and in korean it means ocean or sea | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems bada is "made in korea" though | 06:56 |
| twoboxen | DocScrutinizer: what about intel's actual meego releases? They can't be that far off. | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | no handheld devices | 06:57 |
| hiemanshu | well yeah, nothing as of yet, but you can run it on the N9{,00,50} apparently | 06:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | support for N9 from Nokia is more than questionable | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | regarding "real" meego | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | and honestly I don't care, as - like I already mentioned - I'm not particularly interested in N9. And it seems there won't be any "meego" device from Nokia after N9 | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | so no matter how you look at it, it looks like a dead end | 07:00 |
| hiemanshu | pretty much yes, and I am not moving to android, so its most likely iOS or webos for me | 07:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | nota bene N9 never got attributed as NIT by Nokia | 07:06 |
| twoboxen | hiemanshu: you mean the me ego CE release? Does it work on n950 yet? | 07:08 |
| twoboxen | on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N950 so does me ego use aegis? | 07:11 |
| twoboxen | why the hell didn't they just follow android's security model | 07:17 |
| twoboxen | it meets all their goals on http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/maemo-6-platform-security | 07:17 |
| dm8tbr | hiemanshu: yes, such things go unsaid. I just mentioned the hacky approaches | 07:19 |
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| dm8tbr | moaning | 07:41 |
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| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, iOS? seriously? | 09:40 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: I have owned an iPhone, so yeah, iOS is better than android, much much better | 09:40 |
| MohammadAG | in what ways? | 09:41 |
| hiemanshu | every way? | 09:41 |
| MohammadAG | not really? | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | it's 8:36am and we're discussing platform wars | 09:42 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, I'm actually holding a shotgun for the courrier | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | trust me, in the future, platforms and their APIs matter less, they'll just be a delivery mechanism to differentiate with the ecosystem being the free web | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:43 |
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| MohammadAG | Forwarded for delivery, meh | 09:44 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: the main thing about iOS is loads of games \ | 09:45 |
| hiemanshu | \o/ | 09:45 |
| hiemanshu | and I have developed for iOS | 09:45 |
| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, meh, I've been with maemo for a year, never cared about games | 09:46 |
| MohammadAG | development needs a mac, I don't intend on buying one | 09:46 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: I travel enough to care about games | 09:46 |
| MohammadAG | plus it's Obj-C | 09:46 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: I have a mac, and getting another one some time soon | 09:46 |
| hiemanshu | yeah, Obj-C is beautiful code, and prettier API cals | 09:46 |
| hiemanshu | calls* | 09:47 |
| MohammadAG | so why aren't you on an iPhone? | 09:47 |
| hiemanshu | I lost mine | 09:47 |
| hiemanshu | about a month or so ago, and not buying one right now, waiting for iPhone 5 | 09:47 |
| hiemanshu | only reason I am not full time into iPhone dev is no Qt | 09:47 |
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| MohammadAG | well, the platform war didn't work well | 09:50 |
| MohammadAG | let's talk rpm vs deb | 09:50 |
| * MohammadAG runs | 09:50 | |
| Stskeeps | i've used debs, i've used rpm, and i like rpm better, allows me a much nicer workflow | 09:50 |
| MohammadAG | but RPM sucks!!!1!1 | 09:51 |
| Stskeeps | not a productive argument | 09:52 |
| MohammadAG | Obviously, I wasn't being serious... | 09:53 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: I have used rpm all my life, deb is just meh | 10:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | <<in the future, platforms and their APIs matter less>> seems I've heard this since end of last millenium, still it didn't exactly come true, despite chromeOS, thin clients, clouds and all | 10:13 |
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| antman8969 | does anyone know who owns the my-meego.com site? (also my-maemo.com) | 10:20 |
| hiemanshu | antman8969: see who owns the domain. use a whois service | 10:21 |
| antman8969 | I was hoping for a user name lol | 10:21 |
| antman8969 | micheal jirz | 10:21 |
| antman8969 | jerz | 10:22 |
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| lbt | FYI http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/Problem_Statement discuss in #meego. Also see http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=27975 and email threads | 10:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ?? | 10:56 |
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| harbaum | Pretty enteraining read ... | 11:02 |
| * Arkenoi thinks easydebian must be hell to use on capacitive touchscreen | 11:02 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | you bet | 11:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | esp without mouse and kbd support, due to missing hostmode (and alas this doesn't seem to change any time soon) | 11:08 |
| Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer, well, you may use bluetooth ones.. | 11:08 |
| RST38h | I am creating a repo on OBS. What repo type should I choose? | 11:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | If I had, I'd test it to confirm :-D | 11:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: strawberry | 11:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | scnr | 11:10 |
| djszapi | RST38h: pick one via advanced interface. | 11:11 |
| djszapi | and armv7el there. | 11:11 |
| RST38h | aha | 11:12 |
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| djszapi | DocScrutinizer: we are gonna have a documentation review meeting with the SDK team prolly. Let me know what you miss from the aegis documentation (without screaming, and in a mature mood please) and I try to get into this. | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: noticed, thanks | 11:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Thanks! | 11:59 |
| SpeedEvil | 'man aegis' | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe ask twoboxen and javispedro as well, if they appear from the underbush | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | man 5 refhashlist | 12:01 |
| djszapi | yeah, please tell it to everybody | 12:02 |
| djszapi | we try to make it work by Friday. | 12:02 |
| djszapi | I would appreciate a wikipage for it with short notes. | 12:03 |
| Arkenoi | damn they call *this* http://thinkflood.com/products/redeye-mini/ "affordable". $50 for fscking IR diode with simple converter! would be useful as we do not have CIR anymore if not the price | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaaah, of course! >>what is a practicable way to make aegis "hush", I.E. get a set of tokens for root that lets root feel like root?" | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | WUT? | 12:04 |
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| * SpeedEvil writes page overview on wiki. | 12:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer | dang, I bet I could do better, by feeding left headset channel with max dBm 20kHz and rectify/multiply it for VCC, while right channel outputs signal | 12:06 |
| Arkenoi | root cannot even view dmesg, that sucks! | 12:06 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: no, it does not. | 12:06 |
| djszapi | you have no idea what a user device means. | 12:06 |
| Arkenoi | user device means you cannot view dmesg? | 12:06 |
| djszapi | *sigh* | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, this comment was it for me | 12:06 |
| Arkenoi | hell even iPhone can do | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | cheerio | 12:07 |
| Arkenoi | doesn't it qualify as user device? | 12:07 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: in my opinion, it is much worse approach if you have a unix workstation design for a consumer phone. | 12:07 |
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| djszapi | Arkenoi: frankly, you should just learn instead of whining, how to do things. | 12:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm writing an overview of the issues as I see them on the wiki. Comments or alterations welcome when I have it up - maybe a few mins I'll post the link. | 12:09 |
| Arkenoi | djszapi, i run selinux enforced mode on my desktop, it does not suck that much | 12:09 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: hahahahahaha | 12:09 |
| djszapi | made my day =) | 12:09 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: about aegis ? | 12:09 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: yes. | 12:09 |
| djszapi | cool, thanks really. | 12:10 |
| SpeedEvil | The broad themes, about why it causes issues, an the narrower things that we want to know. | 12:10 |
| djszapi | We got an opportunity to meet the SDK team and fix the documentation by Friday | 12:10 |
| djszapi | I would like to see everybody's feedback | 12:10 |
| djszapi | if it does not now happen, it cannot be easily amended in the near future... | 12:10 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer can be a little bad-tempered. | 12:10 |
| djszapi | so please take it seriously as an opportunity to improve this field. | 12:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I am. | 12:11 |
| Arkenoi | actually it would be more useful to have thing like that on the desktop as it has potentially bigger malware and remote exploits threat exposure (potentially means who the hell will hack linux desktops when there are zillions of windows machines with careless users) | 12:13 |
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| Arkenoi | we had vulnerable flash with remote code execution bug on the n900 from the very beginning and no one gives a fsck | 12:13 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: yeah, we know you know better and all the principal security engineers are just silly at Nokia and Intel :) | 12:16 |
| djszapi | including Linus Torvalds who is heavily rejecting the selinux kernel model and accepted an upstream approach which is pretty much aegis alike. | 12:16 |
| djszapi | * than all | 12:16 |
| SpeedEvil | The issues Aegis was intended to solve are pretty much those solely around a mass-market series of handsets. | 12:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Intended to take over much of Nokias line. | 12:17 |
| Arkenoi | selinux is a good thing and its poor adoption is shame on humanity | 12:17 |
| SpeedEvil | The reality - when it's implemented on one niche handset - is more questionable. | 12:17 |
| djszapi | 12:17 < SpeedEvil> The issues Aegis was intended to solve are pretty much those solely around a mass-market series of handsets. -> no, it is not true. | 12:18 |
| djszapi | but nice to see you are confident enough to know better than us :) | 12:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Umm. | 12:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Back when Aegis was designed, this was the vision. | 12:19 |
| Arkenoi | SpeedEvil, i just think a futile attempt to make DRM that does not suck is so futile.. though Aegis security model is worth something even beyond DRM | 12:19 |
| SpeedEvil | That was the (public) plan. | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | i still kind of want something like aegis in a world where devices are as promiscious as a US teenage girl studying in europe | 12:20 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: never really been a plan at the architecture design. I think you should just learn more about this field before saying so untrue explanations. Just start at the smack kernel implementation. | 12:20 |
| SpeedEvil | There were security platform announcements around n900 time which I assume were about aegis, which ever made it into the n900. | 12:20 |
| Arkenoi | having a trusted environment on a consumer device is great as long as the trust relationship are under the full control of the owner | 12:20 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: By issues, I mean security issues for a phone maker. | 12:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Not security issues as a general kernel or unix thing. | 12:20 |
| djszapi | 12:20 < SpeedEvil> There were security platform announcements around n900 time which I assume were about aegis, which ever made it into the n900. -> so untrue again. | 12:21 |
| SpeedEvil | No, it's not untrue. | 12:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume that. | 12:21 |
| djszapi | ok, if you know better, I give up. :) | 12:21 |
| SpeedEvil | If my assumption is incorrect, fine. | 12:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I have no data, as as far as I know, this has not been published. | 12:22 |
| Arkenoi | phone makers are anal. nokia is double so. see, HTC lets you take HD2 and run android on it and nothing terrible happens. Nokia guys thing that the sky will fall if you are allowed to change OS on a consumer device (n900 is really not an example) | 12:22 |
| djszapi | what bugs me is that, I have been trying to help as much as possible here since I feel it my obligation. Nobody does it apart from me in my team, and people keep saying they know better. Don't you think it is a bit soul-destroying ? | 12:23 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil ^ | 12:23 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: What aspect of that are you disagreeing about. That there were announcements and talk of a security platform on the n900? | 12:23 |
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| djszapi | SpeedEvil: aegis has nothing to do with N900 | 12:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I know. | 12:24 |
| SpeedEvil | However, statements were made at that time which seem to the outside world to be very related to what aegis has turned out to be on the n950. It would seem logical to outside observers that there was an internal development project running at that time to make aegis. | 12:25 |
| djszapi | please stop speculating. | 12:25 |
| SpeedEvil | And at that time, the vision was (publically at least) that maemo was going to take over a large slice of nokias handsets. | 12:25 |
| Arkenoi | no one expects the spanish inquisition^W^WElop | 12:26 |
| SpeedEvil | If you can't publically address these points - say so - fine. | 12:26 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: publicly address 100 times ? :) | 12:26 |
| djszapi | sorry, I find it really tiresome. | 12:27 |
| djszapi | I have never seen any aegis work on N900, period. (at gazillion times). | 12:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I never said it was working on the n900. | 12:27 |
| djszapi | sorry, I find it time wasting, afk :) | 12:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I said it seems from the outside like at least design work was going on at that time. | 12:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyway - reading docs and writing overview - please critisise that. Sorry we're talking past each other appparantly. | 12:28 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: seriously the last time, 1000005th. Aegis was designed for Harmattan and then a very alike approach was proposed against the Linux kernel as an upstream version. Linus accepted it since he just simply dislikes selinux like almost everybody else in the linux security domain apart from the selinux developers. really period. | 12:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm not disagreeing with you. | 12:31 |
| Arkenoi | do you mean i am a pervert or work for NSA? | 12:32 |
| Arkenoi | (or both) | 12:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - the above seems to be what I understand too - it's just I expressed it in different ways. | 12:32 |
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| Arkenoi | SELinux is disliked by people who are too lazy to profile their software | 12:33 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm not saying that aegis was ever intended for n900, just that there were (unclear) announcements made at that time. | 12:33 |
| Arkenoi | unfortunately it includes almost all "enterprise software vendors" | 12:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 12:33 |
| Arkenoi | but it does not mean SELinux is bad | 12:34 |
| SpeedEvil | SELinux is a good idea in principle. Most software has way too much access. | 12:34 |
| Arkenoi | redhat team made hell a lot of work to write selinux policies for most packages | 12:34 |
| djszapi | SELinux does not really work in the practice, but let us not fight it again. There are enough mailing list threads about it amongst the linux security experts. Since selinux was born there were just new upcoming linux security models. The reason is very simple. It does not work in the practice, hard to configure, not modularized and I could enumerate, really overdiscussed matter. | 12:35 |
| Arkenoi | could you please provide a proof it does not work? | 12:36 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: try to configure selinux for a really simple task and then smack. | 12:36 |
| djszapi | You will see the difference in no time. | 12:36 |
| kimju | my wish, apart from core documentation (like description of those /var/lib/aegis/* files) would be documenting all the various capabilities in use, what they (dis)allow and which of those can not be set in "unofficial" packages. | 12:37 |
| djszapi | kimju: that has nothing to do with aegis | 12:37 |
| djszapi | those are really application things... | 12:37 |
| djszapi | if an application defined a token, like tracker, tracker should document it, next! :) | 12:37 |
| Arkenoi | i have done that, quite simple and there are comprehencive tutorials, actually i am going to do that for all my packages and i do not consider it to be waste of time | 12:38 |
| djszapi | hahahahahahaha | 12:38 |
| kimju | djszapi, technically you're of course correct, but for user, that all seems "aegis". | 12:38 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: There - seems - to be no public documentation of these things you are saying. Which is why people are asking questions that are silly. | 12:38 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: And getting upset as you're saying they're silly, because we don't know what's in scope or not. | 12:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry - this probably isn't productive, I'll get back to writing coherent thoughts for wiki. | 12:40 |
| djszapi | kimju: we can put one line into documentation, it has nothing to do with aegis, ok | 12:40 |
| Arkenoi | well, people may dislike SElinux or not, but I am yet to see SElinux causing a fraction of PITA aegis happily provides | 12:40 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: I told you gazillian times to look for documentations and videos | 12:40 |
| djszapi | do I need to make the google for you ? | 12:41 |
| djszapi | ok, let us give one example.... | 12:41 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: I'm looking at them at the moment. | 12:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry - I haven't dug as deep into the docs as I should. | 12:41 |
| SpeedEvil | reading hrouhg the released docs. | 12:41 |
| kimju | djszapi, please make it two lines, to other pointing the blame to the apps :) | 12:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Part of the confuseion may be as I'm basicng my comments of others that may not have read the docs. | 12:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there more than at http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/ ? | 12:42 |
| kimju | djszapi, but still, I'd like to see such documentation. even if it's not your (personally nor the teams) responsibility to make such. | 12:43 |
| Arkenoi | and i guess aegis is one of primary reason we are not likely to see cheap chinese phones and tablets with harmattan | 12:44 |
| Arkenoi | well, the diversity of maemo platform is not a good thing for wide adoption | 12:44 |
| kimju | and I actually do like some things that aegis makes possible, like secure storage in the device. | 12:45 |
| Arkenoi | there is TPM thing, like "embedded smartcard", it is much more simple and widely available | 12:47 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: However - whatever - thanks for the willingness to discuss things, and sorry there seems to be so much drama. | 12:47 |
| djszapi | the drama is only that, people are not constructive if there is some issue :) | 12:48 |
| djszapi | they tend to be smarter than a bunch of principal engineers in full time :) | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think anyone is claiming that. | 12:48 |
| kimju | I wonder what is wrong with my mg-terminal package, it gets build but then obs gets stuck when it should move the resulting .deb to repo. | 12:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Disagreeing with policy is not disagreeing with the team of engineers, it's disagreeing with their managers. | 12:49 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: also, do not forget, meego tends to use the aegis-alike upstream security model. | 12:49 |
| djszapi | y does not have to be complicated. | 12:49 |
| djszapi | https://lkml.org/lkml/2007/9/29/147 | 12:49 |
| djszapi | also, just good feedbacks in comparison with android, windows security model... | 12:50 |
| kimju | other packages seem to get build and pushed to repos, mine gets stuck each and every time. | 12:50 |
| djszapi | so yeah, there might be undocumented things that can be improved, but whining all the time when we are still better than everybody else ... :) | 12:50 |
| djszapi | well, that is not really constructive. | 12:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | The problem is that at times it's not been clear what the release configuration of the n9 is. | 12:51 |
| djszapi | it is like saying kdevelop's cmake system sucks :) | 12:51 |
| djszapi | it is not perfect, there are minor issue, but still the one available and the best ever for that purpose. | 12:51 |
| SpeedEvil | And - for example - from the perspective of most open-source developers - there is the worry about what happens if nokia stops signing stuff 12 months down the line, and drops all support. | 12:51 |
| djszapi | and I think that is something people forget to remember. | 12:51 |
| SpeedEvil | 'best ever' - for purposes of nokia. | 12:52 |
| Arkenoi | so can anyone answer me a simple question: how do i look at dmesg? | 12:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Ayway - it's probably best if I clarify this in document form. | 12:53 |
| Arkenoi | that reminds me symbian certificate uglyness | 12:53 |
| djszapi | 12:52 < SpeedEvil> 'best ever' - for purposes of nokia. -> again untrue :) | 12:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Rather than trying to put points at random in off-the-cuff responses that may seem confrontationa. | 12:53 |
| djszapi | such a security model has nothing to do with Nokia...ie, smack and meego.... | 12:53 |
| djszapi | and actually upstream linux kernel, so anybody can use it... | 12:53 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: Nokia = manufacturer | 12:54 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: I'm not saying specifically nokia, sorry. | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | kimju: osc wipebinaries doesn't help? | 12:54 |
| kimju | Stskeeps, there is no binaries | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | kimju: hmm | 12:55 |
| kimju | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=mg-terminal&project=home%3Akimju%3Aharmattan | 12:55 |
| kimju | if someone wants to have a look | 12:56 |
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| Arkenoi | is sip account plugin opensource? | 13:14 |
| w00t_ | I don't think any of the UI stuff (apart from the framework) is | 13:16 |
| Arkenoi | damn that sucks | 13:16 |
| Arkenoi | again | 13:16 |
| * Arkenoi did hope harmattan is more open than fremantle | 13:17 | |
| Stskeeps | apps/ui level was kinda announced way ahead of time not to be | 13:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N950/Aegis-notes -1th cut on questions about aegis. | 13:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Comments? | 13:32 |
| SpeedEvil | This is based on at best a skim over the available aegis docs, I need to do more indepth reading. | 13:35 |
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| MohammadAG | no copy/pasting in terminal eh? | 13:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Comments on the above MohammadAG? | 13:41 |
| kimju | MohammadAG, not yet, at least. | 13:41 |
| frals | MohammadAG: its OSS so patches welcome im sure ;) | 13:42 |
| djszapi | kimju: tokens are documented btw, we did instead of the relevant teams internally.... | 13:42 |
| djszapi | that will be fixed :) | 13:42 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: we already overdiscussed the first question of yours here :) | 13:47 |
| djszapi | please make notes about things we discuss, if it is not evident. | 13:47 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, still haven't hit anything from aegis | 13:47 |
| MohammadAG | it's been with me for an hour :P | 13:47 |
| MohammadAG | oh and I set relaxed exec on, that was the first thing I did | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: Part of the problem is I'm trying to work out state from others comments, available docs, without an actual device. | 13:48 |
| djszapi | hehe :) | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Other than RDA - which as I understand it is not running a similar image. | 13:49 |
| djszapi | RDA ? | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | The above is intended as a framework others can jam stuff into. | 13:50 |
| frals | remote device access | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Remote Device Access | 13:50 |
| djszapi | btw, it is possible to work with qemu as well to emulate images in the future | 13:50 |
| djszapi | I guess it will fit to the general QtCreator approach. | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Some of the development stuff I'm interested in will never be supported by qemu | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - USB host. | 13:51 |
| djszapi | I am just saying that will also help some people and some things. | 13:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 13:52 |
| lardman | morning all | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Qemu is a useful tool, though I assume aegis can't work under qemu? | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Or is there a seperate certificate. | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Morning. | 13:52 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: From what I see, almost all the questions were discussed here. | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N950/Aegis-notes lardman - somewhere to stick questions. Some of them may be bad questions, which can be linked to docs. | 13:53 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: I think it would be better to send to the mailing list than highlighting everybody :) | 13:54 |
| djszapi | if any. | 13:54 |
| djszapi | if there is no mailing list, then forum I guess. | 13:55 |
| SpeedEvil | The questions were discussed - I don't recall answers - I may have misinterpreted the answers, or not been present. However, IRC is a volatile medium, and not the best place for docs. | 13:55 |
| djszapi | that is why I have been saying for a while for everybody to document the hard bits discussed here :) | 13:57 |
| djszapi | I always note the hard parts on the wikipage. | 13:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is why I created the above - to have somewhere to scribble on. | 13:57 |
| SpeedEvil | What wikipage? | 13:58 |
| Arkenoi | btw iirc all early aegis presentations mentioned that it *can* be turned off, losing access to DRM-protected content if there is any, but everything other should work | 13:58 |
| Arkenoi | it is quite surprising that it turned out it cannot | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | Arkenoi: that's my understanding too, with a self-made kernel, everything else is a bug | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | (provided no sim lock, device lock) | 13:58 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: thanks | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Has it been determined if any core binaries will fall over if aegis is not present? | 13:59 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: you can turn it off.... | 13:59 |
| djszapi | open mode...own kernel... | 13:59 |
| djszapi | gazillion times repeated. | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - as addressed in the above page - what happens. Do you just lose angry birds, or does the dialer, maps, ... stop working. | 14:00 |
| lardman | What we could do with is e.g. qgil asking someone from inside the Nokia security side to comment on the page | 14:00 |
| lardman | though I'm sure that's pretty clear to everyone | 14:01 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: what happens if you do not use the platform ? Mmmh, probably no guarantee for anything by nokia ? | 14:01 |
| djszapi | lardman: accept that we are aware of these issues, already and the SDK team was boosted gazillion times. | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: Which essentially means you can't do anything requiring any kernel mods for users. | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a devs-only hack. | 14:01 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: 1) It is very good in my opinion 2) It is not any different to N900 | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Umm. | 14:02 |
| Arkenoi | orly? | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Power-kernel. | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | For example. | 14:02 |
| lardman | djszapi: we need it spelled out to us though ;) | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | That is a fairly widely installed package, that cannot be duplicated on the n9. | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | That's a fair difference. | 14:03 |
| djszapi | I am not getting you. | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power The custom kernel contains additional modules for IPv6, packet filtering, QoS, NAT, tunneling, kernel configuration, Wifi mesh networking, builtin ext3 for booting from other media, ext4, XFS, reiserfs, NTFS read support, ISO9660, UDF, CIFS, automounter, squashfs, unionfs, device mapper and dm-loop, cryptography, cryptoloop, EFI partitions, UTF8 codepages, mouse+joystick input, PPP, PPTP, serial support, US | 14:05 |
| djszapi | so ? | 14:05 |
| SpeedEvil | That package cannot be used by users on the n9. | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is a fairly large difference to the n900. | 14:06 |
| Arkenoi | "It is very good thing" | 14:06 |
| Arkenoi | hell | 14:06 |
| Arkenoi | not really owning your own device is "very good thing" | 14:07 |
| Arkenoi | the major advantage of n900 was that you do not need to "jailbreak" it for useful things manufacturer did not keep in mind | 14:08 |
| Arkenoi | that's what "open" means | 14:08 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: I answered the questions on the wikipage. | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Without actually answering the question. | 14:14 |
| lardman | djszapi: can you give some more details? | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: SpeedEvil: what happens if you do not use the platform ? Mmmh, probably no guarantee for anything by nokia ? | 14:14 |
| lardman | e.g. qualify ""You can still use it with own kernel image to a certain extent. | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | And seeming to contradict your earlier comment | 14:14 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: do you expect from Nokia to take the responsibility for your kernel ? :) | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | If you can run your own kernel, but it requires replacing large chunks of the software that most users rely on, then it's not an option for users. | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | No, it's a factual question. | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | If you run your own kernel, what stops working. | 14:16 |
| Arkenoi | if "open mode" renders device half-unusable it is practically equivalent of "you cannot actually use open mode" | 14:16 |
| SpeedEvil | 'open mode' - for example could mean that the dialer, camera, ... don't work. | 14:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Hell - mce and bme too. | 14:17 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer51: which voltage would you consider low enough to test the recovery? I have one bl4d down to 2.7xV now | 14:19 |
| SpeedEvil | dm8tbr: That should probably be low enough. I think that's around the hard shutoff in the n900 | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Checking now. | 14:22 |
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| lardman | if I've got the meego sdk installed, where does one find the sdk maintenance tool to update it to support Harmattan targets too? | 14:22 |
| dm8tbr | I'm draining it a bit more at around 100\Omega to make sure it stabilizes below 2.75 | 14:23 |
| djszapi | 14:16 < SpeedEvil> 'open mode' - for example could mean that the dialer, camera, ... don't work. -> nope, works just fine | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Ideally it'd be 0V - the internal protection circuitry kicks in - providing no power. | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: This will be the case on the release firmware? | 14:23 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: I think I will change my help policy, I will document more and talk less here :) | 14:24 |
| dm8tbr | SpeedEvil: *nod* prolly somewhere around 2.3? I'm currently seeing 2.4 | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | I wouln't go lower than that | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | That's in the range of possibly damaging. | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm surprised the battery let you do that. | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | 2724 the n900 shut off at - the lowest voltage I have in logs. | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | dm8tbr: If that's the case - many of the concerns about the possible impacts of the security model go away. | 14:26 |
| dm8tbr | ok, the battery disabled itself. let's see when I see voltage again | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle - if everything goes right, and it always shuts off properly, there should be some months before the battery voltage gets low enough to not allow charging. | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | If it does in fact require power in the battery to charge. | 14:29 |
| dm8tbr | I know someone who had a very low charge problem, the -Owait-charging fixed it | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | It's great to have a recovery method that we know works from absolutely positiverly flat though. | 14:31 |
| SpeedEvil | (Or to know it won't) | 14:31 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: this is myth for me only: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25529&postcount=94 I could never reproduce it on any devices I had. | 14:36 |
| dm8tbr | ok, this battery stays at 0V for now. I'm cooking another one that I'll try to hover around 2.7 | 14:36 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: The images internal nokia people have differ from released images. | 14:36 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: At least so I understand. | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Of course - the above could be a bug which has been fixed. | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Rather than intentional policy. | 14:38 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: I cannot reproduce it neither with N9 nor with the published N950 | 14:39 |
| SpeedEvil | It may have ben a result of earlier poking around, not directly related to the error that seemed to cause it. | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Unsure - can't reprouduce here, for obvious reasons. | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | 'published n950' is the same image as released to devs? | 14:41 |
| djszapi | yes, of course. | 14:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | If this is representative of the released n9 - great. If we can run our own kernels, and no critical stock software falls over, many of the concerns dissapear. Thanks. | 14:45 |
| kimju | lbt, is there anything I can do to try to find out why the obs doesn't like my package? (still the same problem, hangs in building state after succesfully compiling it) | 14:45 |
| djszapi | kimju: I have been having the same issue for 3 weeks :p | 14:47 |
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| kimju | djszapi, nice to know that I'm not the only one :) | 14:49 |
| djszapi | Also, SpeeEvil: https://lkml.org/lkml/2007/9/29/147 | 14:49 |
| djszapi | That is a good starting point about security and linux... | 14:50 |
| dm8tbr | SpeedEvil: device with dead battery now hooked up to a wall wart. the led in the corner came up immediately. let's see. | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Good sign. | 14:50 |
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| * RST38h writes forum.meego.com off the list of places to seek help | 14:55 | |
| RST38h | Kiddies, *again*. | 14:56 |
| kimju | it's a web forum, what did you expect? | 14:57 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: I think I found a commit relevant to that. It seems that issue was addressed, but I cannot still reproduce the issue :p | 14:57 |
| djszapi | so if any, it is probably an image bug. | 14:58 |
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| djszapi | DocScrutinizer51, to you too ^ | 14:59 |
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| dm8tbr | do we have the led behaviour pre-boot documented somewhere? | 15:11 |
| dm8tbr | currently it went from solid to blinking | 15:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | If it's like the n900. | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Solid is hardware. | 15:12 |
| dm8tbr | well there you go, device boots | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: heh, no | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Blinking is software - it boots into ACT_DEAD state | 15:13 |
| Stskeeps | if you look at serial output it's obvious it's nolo :) | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 15:13 |
| dm8tbr | I had to keep the power button pressed for 10s or so | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | believe him. | 15:13 |
| dm8tbr | I'd need a jig to verify that ;) | 15:13 |
| * SpeedEvil is feeling a fair bit more positive about the device now. | 15:13 | |
| dm8tbr | any chance to get one? :D | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | (well - modulo the whole non-having thing) | 15:14 |
| dm8tbr | the device just recovered from a truly and utterly dead battery | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Another interesting test would be to try that with a dead battery with .7R in series with it. | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | (two year old battery equivalent) | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | But that's not really important yet. :) | 15:15 |
| dm8tbr | SpeedEvil: mmmhhh, I'd need to rip an bl4d apart for that... | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes - or make a patch lead. | 15:16 |
| * SpeedEvil looks at his patch lead. | 15:16 | |
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| djszapi | SpeedEvil: one of the Linus comments about selinux: https://lkml.org/lkml/2007/10/2/377 I must say, I agree with him about it. | 15:18 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: I'm not advocating it. | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | In fact - I'd be totally in favour of Aegis - and it would be a positive selling point - if I could sign my own keys. | 15:27 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand it, the signature has to be done online by the SDK calling a nokia server somewhere. | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | If there isn't verification of what's signed - inspection of source - a major reason it's a good idea falls over. It's all in the implementation. | 15:30 |
| djszapi | aegis-origin is actually written by me :p | 15:31 |
| djszapi | that is an important bit of the design. | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | I've no arguments with the concept of aegis - it's all in the implementation as to how likely I am at some point in the future to purchase a n9. | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | From a platform security point of view - something like the apple store where everything is verified for sanity would be a great thing. | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | But this is some way in the future, and raises obvious issues. Aegis of course can do this. | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | (implementation = configuration largely) | 15:34 |
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| lcuk | lardman, ping for later. when you add items onto the eventwall, are they persisted, as in when you reboot will the items remain there? | 16:05 |
| lardman | hey lcuk | 16:05 |
| lcuk | \o | 16:05 |
| lardman | I guess so, it looks like it's a DBus call, so the state is presumably held by the event wall app itself | 16:06 |
| GAN900 | OK, I give up on using that thing daily. | 16:06 |
| lcuk | yeah | 16:06 |
| djszapi | lcuk o/ | 16:06 |
| lcuk | hence me asking, thp do you have any input on this | 16:06 |
| lcuk | hiya djszapi | 16:06 |
| lcuk | GAN900, which thing? | 16:06 |
| * lcuk waiting for new battery for his n950 | 16:07 | |
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| lcuk | morning fiferboy \o | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Why? | 16:10 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, just wondering whether an app would need to repopulate it after a reboot | 16:17 |
| lardman | far too many twitter posts on mine | 16:18 |
| lardman | would be good to be able to determine what appears, and how long for, etc | 16:19 |
| lardman | I also don't like the way the notifications vanish so quickly, I'd prefer to have to manually clear them a la Android | 16:19 |
| thp | lcuk: what? | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: battery - why | 16:20 |
| djszapi | lardman: You can actually eliminate manually them since they appear on the other screen anyway | 16:20 |
| RST38h | I have neither Facebook nor Twitter account. Can you imaging how happy my life is? :) | 16:20 |
| lardman | djszapi: eliminate twitter posts? | 16:20 |
| RST38h | s/imaging/imagine | 16:21 |
| lardman | or facebook perhaps they are | 16:21 |
| lardman | RST38h: :) | 16:21 |
| djszapi | lardman: yup | 16:21 |
| lardman | I'd prefer things like RSS news items to appear there | 16:21 |
| lardman | djszapi: that's alot of manual work to do though | 16:21 |
| kimju | any pointer how to prevent vkb from showing up? | 16:21 |
| RST38h | Got a + account though and it kinda sucks | 16:22 |
| djszapi | lardman: one swipe more actually than that what you asked for :D | 16:22 |
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| RST38h | Wondering when Google geniuses finally figure out the difference between "have X in my circle" and "want to read X's posts" | 16:23 |
| apol | how do we run qml apps in harmattan? there's no qml viewer? | 16:23 |
| RST38h | there is | 16:23 |
| RST38h | you can install it from the harmattan-dev repo | 16:24 |
| RST38h | but it does not run properly, lots of errors | 16:24 |
| lardman | djszapi: Is it possible to choose what data sources are accepted? | 16:25 |
| lardman | e.g. so I could completely disable facebook | 16:25 |
| lardman | and also only enable some twitter sources, etc | 16:25 |
| apol | RST38h: so what is the preferred way? | 16:25 |
| djszapi | lardman: sorry ? | 16:26 |
| lardman | on the events wall thingie | 16:26 |
| RST38h | apol: Apparently code your own app with QDeclarativeView | 16:26 |
| djszapi | lardman: there is a feed settings, for instance. | 16:26 |
| frals | lardman: settings-> notifications-> | 16:26 |
| fiferboy | lardman: You have twitter posts on the event wall? | 16:26 |
| lardman | no facebook | 16:27 |
| RST38h | lardman: Actually, got a better question: How do I import my Google Reader RSS feed into Harmattan? | 16:27 |
| frals | -> feed on homescreen* | 16:27 |
| lardman | some things are republished from twitter on facebook, hence my confusion | 16:27 |
| apol | -.- | 16:27 |
| apol | ok | 16:27 |
| fiferboy | Ah | 16:28 |
| djszapi | apol: you need this one ? qt4-declarative-qmlviewer | 16:28 |
| lardman | yay, finally I can see RSS feed info :) | 16:28 |
| lardman | thanks djszapi frals | 16:29 |
| apol | djszapi: well, I don't need it if I can't use it to distribute my application | 16:29 |
| djszapi | Can we update the image on the N950 device ? For instance I can use N9 out of Nokia with newer Pr images. Hence why asking. | 16:29 |
| djszapi | apol: qmlviewer is just for debugging purposes imho. | 16:30 |
| lardman | djszapi: we have no source of newer images afaik | 16:30 |
| djszapi | lardman: I have, trust me :p | 16:31 |
| lardman | djszapi: shame we all don't too! ;) | 16:31 |
| djszapi | agreed | 16:31 |
| apol | djszapi: well, makes little sense to have everything in a scripting language and force developer to create a dummy c++ application just to load the scripts | 16:31 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, what thing do you think? | 16:32 |
| lardman | GAN900: what's up with it? | 16:32 |
| lardman | Other than the lack of a notification light | 16:32 |
| djszapi | apol: I am not getting you. What I told is only that qmlviewer can be only good for development purposes. | 16:32 |
| apol | djszapi: the alternative is to create a c++ app | 16:33 |
| djszapi | apol: yes, I know these things :) | 16:34 |
| djszapi | however makes little sense for some simple Ui change test in some cases. | 16:35 |
| djszapi | but since you need to package it anyway, it is not much of an overhead. | 16:35 |
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| apol | ... yay? | 16:37 |
| apol | xD | 16:37 |
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| djszapi | lardman: Could you manage the packaging issue from the last night ? | 16:37 |
| djszapi | some dev package installationg. | 16:38 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: if you dont put the qml in a resource file, you can make small changes without having to recompile or repackage | 16:38 |
| lardman | djszapi: no, but it's not that important atm, so I'll revisit it later when I need to get it sorted - would prefer to get some coding done now rather than wasting time | 16:38 |
| djszapi | hiemanshu: except that you either need to update the hash manually for every change or using some aegis tool which is even worse imho | 16:39 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: well I did with a C++ backend and qml for the UI, worked just fine even after changes | 16:39 |
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| djszapi | hiemanshu: with some aegis tool ? Point is that I think it is better to follow the platform recommendation and for instance, what QtCreator does. On the other hand, I do not like tray files on my system. | 16:40 |
| djszapi | writing a hash updating tool for every bit change is technically possible, not much worth doing it though in my opinion. | 16:41 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: nope, no tools, changed file, restarted app, and it worked | 16:41 |
| djszapi | yeah, in some local area :D | 16:42 |
| hiemanshu | http://wiki.meego.com/Porting_Fremantle_Applications_to_Harmattan#Store_QML_in_Filesystem_instead_of_Resources | 16:42 |
| thp | wazd: ping | 16:43 |
| RST38h | thp: Look what I found: http://pastebin.com/43hWWLUh | 16:44 |
| djszapi | hiemanshu: actually, for easier things, qemu might even be better. | 16:44 |
| RST38h | thp: And this little fragment is enabled on Harmattan, if I to believe debian/rules | 16:45 |
| djszapi | prolly as an embedded thing inside the QtCreator like it happened with other mobile platforms. | 16:45 |
| djszapi | * qemu-alike | 16:45 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: qemu is very very slow :( | 16:46 |
| djszapi | hieamnshu: not for me | 16:47 |
| djszapi | I do not feel any difference between swiping in an emulated qemu image and the device. It is almost the same speed here. | 16:48 |
| djszapi | Note, I am not a QtCreator expert, they might even have better technology and background experience with it to speed up inside that. | 16:48 |
| djszapi | and I think it is way very nice you can just run the application from QtCreator without all the transfer things if you make a trivial Ui alignment, for instance. | 16:49 |
| hiemanshu | or you could subsitute com.nokia.meego with com.nokia.symbian, and use the symbian simulator | 16:50 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile: Nokia ditches letters for all-number names | 16:50 |
| hiemanshu | yeah Nokia 500 | 16:50 |
| RST38h | djszapi: You may be able to, but I can't | 16:50 |
| RST38h | djszapi: None of the dh tools appear to work in QtCreator on Windows. | 16:51 |
| vandenoever | more portable than Amiga 500 | 16:51 |
| RST38h | So, applications compile but fail at packaging | 16:51 |
| vandenoever | and comes with batteries | 16:51 |
| RST38h | Nokia 100 was a WinCE-based GPS unit afaik | 16:51 |
| djszapi | RST38h: actually it confirms me that the emulator I said nice... | 16:51 |
| slaine | So the N9 is now called ? | 16:52 |
| RST38h | djszapi: well, as none of the apps run for me, it is pretty useless | 16:52 |
| RST38h | slaine: 9? =) | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: gruntmaster 3000 | 16:52 |
| slaine | lol | 16:52 |
| djszapi | RST38h: nothing works for you since I have been here seriously :D | 16:52 |
| RST38h | djszapi: Well, Maemo5 tools work for me | 16:53 |
| djszapi | RST38h: At least, it is something on your end since my colleague uses Windows and works oob | 16:53 |
| RST38h | djszapi: Basic Linux GCC works for me. Visual Studio and even Symbian SDK work for me | 16:53 |
| RST38h | djszapi: Android SDK and NDK both work for me | 16:53 |
| RST38h | djszapi: Even SB-based platform SDK for Harmattan works for me, especially after some advice from mgedmin | 16:54 |
| RST38h | But QtCreator does not, sorry =( | 16:54 |
| djszapi | well, from what I can say, it works here with my colleague's PC. | 16:54 |
| RST38h | Yea, it works in some galaxy far away | 16:55 |
| frals | only ever used qtcreator for coding, never got it to work with my workflow for development | 16:55 |
| djszapi | Also, generally "does not work" is good for nothing, steps steps steps | 16:55 |
| frals | so basically i edit the code, then i switch to terminal and compile and deploy ;( | 16:55 |
| djszapi | and try to report a bug against QtCreator if you think they did something wrong after you make sure. | 16:55 |
| RST38h | djszapi: Steps: 1) Create an empty harmattan app 2) Run it 3) Creator tries compiling ,packaging, fails with an error message | 16:55 |
| RST38h | End of story | 16:55 |
| djszapi | We cannot reproduce it here... | 16:56 |
| djszapi | It is a bit slower on Windows, but that is... | 16:56 |
| RST38h | dh_make missing | 16:56 |
| djszapi | sounds like an "invalid" bug :) | 16:56 |
| RST38h | yea, that is why I am not going to file it | 16:56 |
| RST38h | Will just say that QtCreator does not work when asked if anyone should use it | 16:56 |
| djszapi | RST38h: do you use msvc or mingw ? | 16:57 |
| RST38h | Installed mingw when offered by QtCreator install script | 16:57 |
| djszapi | are you sure the debian tools are installed properly ? | 16:57 |
| djszapi | are they also in the path ? | 16:58 |
| tomma | RST38h, use remote compiler =) | 16:59 |
| RST38h | Look, I do not know | 16:59 |
| RST38h | I followed the instructions given to me by the QtSDK install script | 17:00 |
| RST38h | Any sane install script should take care of installing all necessary pieces into the right places | 17:00 |
| RST38h | And it certianly did not show any error messages during installation | 17:00 |
| GAN900 | lardman, doesn't do any of the things I use my N900 for. | 17:02 |
| GAN900 | lardman, excepting: make phone calls and send SMS | 17:02 |
| RST38h | what are the other things? | 17:02 |
| djszapi | RST38h: you never did debugging when something is not working ? :) | 17:02 |
| djszapi | also, was madde installed properly ? It does not actually have the "real" debian tools, it is just some short cut for those. | 17:03 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, FBReader, IRC, web, GTalk. | 17:04 |
| RST38h | GAN: Ok. GTalk actually works, nicely | 17:05 |
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| divan | RST38h, how did make gtalk work? | 17:06 |
| RST38h | GAN: www.google.com/reader/i then try clicking at the top icons to access other google services in mobile form. There will be a link to the mobile gtalk web applet, send it to your application menu | 17:06 |
| divan | RST38h, ahh, in browser? | 17:07 |
| RST38h | GAN: May want to book mark a few other of these mobile pages (Reader, News, Plus) | 17:07 |
| RST38h | Some of them show up in a very plain :generic" style, ignore these | 17:07 |
| RST38h | Also, mgedmin compiled FBReader and MohammadAG compiled communi IRC client. Both work, albeit not optimally. | 17:08 |
| hiemanshu | communi is usable but butt ugly | 17:08 |
| RST38h | same with fbreader | 17:09 |
| RST38h | they both need a few changes | 17:09 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, FBReader segfaults loading any book. | 17:10 |
| GAN900 | The web browser crashes on 2/3rds of the site I attempt to load. | 17:10 |
| RST38h | web browser seems to work for me | 17:11 |
| djszapi | hiemanshu: it would be nice to have something working on N9 as well. Someone being aware of Venemo's IRC client ? | 17:11 |
| RST38h | but I am only lvisiting a very limited number of sites | 17:11 |
| GAN900 | So, back to the N900. Will use it for testing until we get a retail image. | 17:11 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: well I haven't spoken to venemo in a while so no idea really, but it should be too tough to write an irc client using libircclient-qt | 17:12 |
| * RST38h will try QApplication::setFont() when he gets home tonight. In theory this should automagically make most standard Qt apps usable | 17:12 | |
| hiemanshu | RST38h: or fix meegotouch-qt-style | 17:12 |
| RST38h | too much work | 17:12 |
| RST38h | it is not even being used at the moment, afaik | 17:13 |
| hiemanshu | well its usable, so fixing it would make all fremantle qt apps just work, well most of it | 17:13 |
| djszapi | hiemanshu: I do not think it makes sense to reinvent the wheel since that has actually been what Venemo nicely did. | 17:13 |
| djszapi | However I would have used telepathy-idle, prolly. | 17:13 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: well we'll have to wait till he is around then | 17:14 |
| RST38h | hiemanshu: crashes and burns on me | 17:14 |
| hiemanshu | RST38h: well it worked for my app on meego-ce | 17:14 |
| hiemanshu | and it showed up fine on SB too | 17:14 |
| RST38h | not on the n950 though | 17:14 |
| RST38h | dunno why | 17:14 |
| djszapi | nothing works for RST38h :D | 17:14 |
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| lardman | Seems to me that if we had an extras-devel repo we might know about more of these apps ;) | 17:15 |
| RST38h | see above for the list of things that work for me | 17:15 |
| RST38h | lardman: whip up your own | 17:15 |
| djszapi | lardman: there is something like that, actually. | 17:15 |
| djszapi | with no QA :p | 17:16 |
| RST38h | lardman: if you do, I will upload some stuff there =) | 17:16 |
| lardman | RST38h: sure | 17:16 |
| lardman | how? | 17:16 |
| lardman | don't tell me I need to use obs | 17:16 |
| hiemanshu | well I could set up a repo on my server if anyone wants one | 17:16 |
| lardman | RST38h: ah don't worry about my how, I thought you meant one already existed | 17:17 |
| lardman | doh | 17:17 |
| djszapi | hiemanshu: there is already a short term non QA solution and one QA solution for the long run | 17:17 |
| lardman | must learn to not mix lines up while reading :) | 17:17 |
| djszapi | what is the sense of sharing it further on ? :) | 17:17 |
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| djszapi | * separating | 17:18 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: is the long run one Ovi Store? | 17:18 |
| djszapi | nop | 17:18 |
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| GAN900 | Man, the LF is so acutely useless. | 17:42 |
| GAN900 | Worse, they're a giant roadblock. | 17:43 |
| * SpeedEvil passes GAN900 a fork. | 17:43 | |
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| GAN900 | Why did it take until now for the LF to nix apps.meego? | 17:52 |
| rm_work | lolwut? | 17:54 |
| rm_work | i assume there's an article or something related? | 17:56 |
| kimju | http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/Problem_Statement | 17:57 |
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| lardman | GAN900: so the lawyers could be paid for the whole time? | 17:59 |
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| lardman | formeego.org sounds a bit crap imho | 18:03 |
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| * javispedro comes back from holidays to find about the formeego fiasco | 18:13 | |
| Stskeeps | well, patents do suck | 18:14 |
| M4rtinK2 | lbt: any idea why I'm getting "ERROR: can't resolve libraries to shared libraries: glib-2.0" ? | 18:16 |
| M4rtinK2 | while building Gobject-Introspection | 18:16 |
| lbt | M4rtinK2: sorry ... bit busy atm | 18:17 |
| M4rtinK2 | lbt: np :) | 18:17 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, patents don't suck outdated and subverted patent laws suck | 18:23 |
| rm_work | heard a good NPR segment on software parents last week | 18:24 |
| GAN900 | and incompetent government agences granting and enforcing them. | 18:24 |
| rm_work | seems like maybe mainstream is picking up on the issue | 18:24 |
| GAN900 | (but I'm being redundant) | 18:24 |
| javispedro | also | 18:24 |
| javispedro | Yet another "please do not ask harmattan questions on this ML" | 18:25 |
| GAN900 | They should just send an autoreply from the mailserver to emails containing Harmattan. | 18:31 |
| GAN900 | "Die! Die, die die! Productive scum!" | 18:31 |
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| javispedro | hah | 18:32 |
| javispedro | funny and sad. | 18:32 |
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| * javispedro sighs at the idea of having to follow three forums to keep with harmattan news: tmo (where most n900ers are), fmc (where most previously n900, now n950 users are), and developer.nokia.com (where most previously s60, now n950 users are) | 18:37 | |
| javispedro | fortunately, we have this channel... | 18:37 |
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| hiemanshu | has anyone converted mp4 video to play on the N950? | 18:42 |
| lardman | javispedro: yeah, I've pretty much given up on fora until someone posts a link here | 18:42 |
| lardman | javispedro: how was your holiday, go anywhere nice? | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: It's depressing when stuff that's useful gets left behind. | 18:43 |
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| lardman | SpeedEvil: as in information? | 18:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Usenet put discussion in one place. Supported a wide variety of clients, and had a distributed server architecture. | 18:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | Even global logging. | 18:43 |
| lardman | agreed | 18:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Now we have a billion forums all with shitty interfaces. | 18:43 |
| lardman | I also find the myriad Meego mls too much to follow | 18:43 |
| macmaN | javispedro: good point there | 18:44 |
| GAN900 | javispedro, mwkn! | 18:45 |
| javispedro | lardman: Tuscany (florence, etc.) -- nice place, but too many peopl | 18:46 |
| javispedro | GAN900: indeed! | 18:46 |
| lardman | javispedro: that's the problem with going on holiday to sunny places in the summer ;) | 18:46 |
| javispedro | lardman: yep, there was also some kind of public transportation crisis resulting in huge traffic. didn't help :) | 18:47 |
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| suy_ | so, there is no specific mailing list for harmattan? only forums or this channel? :-( | 18:48 |
| * lardman is currently enjoying the Mediterranean summer weather in the UK today | 18:48 | |
| javispedro | technically, there's no specific Harmattan fora at all. | 18:48 |
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| alterego | lardman: is nice isn't it. | 18:49 |
| * javispedro is still waiting for someone (arjan? ;) ) to post that "Harmattan questions should better not be asked in the Application Developer Support" fmc forum. | 18:49 | |
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| lardman | alterego: quite amazing really, though I'm sure there's rain not far off! | 18:50 |
| alterego | Yeah, got very cloudy here now. | 18:51 |
| alterego | Looks like it may rain at some point. | 18:51 |
| lardman | has been sunny all day here, which is nice, but ~27C in the shade now | 18:51 |
| javispedro | it rained heavily here last week, plants ruined -- looks like I chose a good week to leave | 18:51 |
| javispedro | *(here at barcelona) | 18:52 |
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| rm_work | hiemanshu: all my mp4 play natively, without conversion | 18:55 |
| rm_work | though i am working on figuring out the perfect profile for video | 18:55 |
| rm_work | when I get it figured out i'll let you know | 18:55 |
| hiemanshu | rm_work: well the 720p mp4 I tested was very very laggy | 18:56 |
| rm_work | yes | 18:56 |
| rm_work | 720p doesn't play | 18:56 |
| rm_work | the screen isn't even 720p tho, so | 18:56 |
| rm_work | basically you need to re-encode to native | 18:56 |
| rm_work | so it doesn't have to attempt to scale | 18:56 |
| rm_work | i think the scaling is what kills it | 18:57 |
| hiemanshu | I am using total video converter, and trying to figure out the best profile too, so far selecting PSP Video and giving a custom res seems to work | 18:57 |
| rm_work | i use mencoder with a script | 18:57 |
| hiemanshu | with a very decent video output | 18:57 |
| hiemanshu | I have all my videos on my HTPC which runs windows | 18:57 |
| rm_work | wooo re-encoding ON DEVICE with mencoder :P | 18:58 |
| * rm_work kries | 18:58 | |
| lardman | hiemanshu: Windows?! oh dear | 18:58 |
| rm_work | what size is our screen again? | 18:59 |
| rm_work | 856x480 or something random like that? | 18:59 |
| lardman | sorry rm_work, not sure | 19:00 |
| * lardman calls it quits for the afternoon, catch you all later on | 19:00 | |
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| javispedro | 854 | 19:00 |
| rm_work | k | 19:03 |
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| hiemanshu | rm_work: 854 480 | 19:04 |
| hiemanshu | lardman|gone: yes, it works perfectly | 19:05 |
| alterego | Wow, that's the quickeset I've seen ice melt in aaages. | 19:06 |
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| rm_work | alterego: lolwut | 19:10 |
| rm_work | mmm, mencoder is getting ~8.3 FPS encoding video on my n950 | 19:14 |
| rm_work | x264 to xvid | 19:15 |
| hiemanshu | I have a 30 min video, that will take about 75 mins to encode | 19:15 |
| rm_work | lol | 19:15 |
| rm_work | encoding my 4 minute video in 10 minutes | 19:16 |
| rm_work | so yeah | 19:16 |
| rm_work | about right | 19:16 |
| rm_work | 2.5x length | 19:16 |
| hiemanshu | yeah | 19:16 |
| hiemanshu | which means, time to upgrade your PC! | 19:16 |
| rm_work | lol | 19:16 |
| rm_work | pft | 19:16 |
| rm_work | my PC would encode this in ike 30 seconds | 19:16 |
| rm_work | but since i don't have a USB cable on me and zero wireless connectivity at the office | 19:17 |
| rm_work | i get to do it on the phone | 19:17 |
| rm_work | at 8.3 FPS :P | 19:17 |
| M4rtinK2 | what about using the DSP ? :) | 19:17 |
| rm_work | lol | 19:17 |
| rm_work | dunno if there is a driver for the DSP in mencoder for encoding lol | 19:18 |
| javispedro | it's a good idea. | 19:18 |
| hiemanshu | rm_work: I am doing it on my PC :/ | 19:18 |
| javispedro | there should be in gst | 19:18 |
| npm | rm_work: do you have mencoder .deb? howbout ffmpeg? | 19:18 |
| npm | i think the gstreamer plugin idea woud be better | 19:18 |
| rm_work | yes i have mencoder deb | 19:19 |
| rm_work | ~packrat | 19:19 |
| rm_work | 'bah | 19:19 |
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| rm_work | where's infobot | 19:19 |
| * npm wonders about libvideo-renderer-gst-playbin2 | 19:20 | |
| rm_work | http://www.ageofikon.com/prh/index.php?Action=list&System=.%2F&Arg=mplayer&Section=&Repo=0 | 19:20 |
| * hiemanshu wonders if aegis did something to infobot | 19:20 | |
| rm_work | mplayer deb contains mencoder | 19:20 |
| npm | gst-nokia-wm | 19:20 |
| javispedro | oh, packrat is useful again. | 19:20 |
| rm_work | javispedro: did you miss me fixing it last week? :P | 19:20 |
| rm_work | it REALLY should be in the topic now :/ | 19:21 |
| javispedro | yes, I was on holiday. | 19:21 |
| rm_work | ah lol | 19:21 |
| javispedro | wonder if we are going BACKWARDS regarding repos =) | 19:21 |
| rm_work | well... i fixed it to work with harmattan | 19:21 |
| rm_work | now you are caught up :P | 19:21 |
| rm_work | lol yes, it seems that way | 19:21 |
| rm_work | wow this poor thing is actually heating up a bit encoding | 19:22 |
| rm_work | hooo man and it's eating the battery like a mofo | 19:22 |
| javispedro | Was going to ask for mine to be added but either way I have nothing useful until I get closed-source headers there. | 19:22 |
| javispedro | there being COBS | 19:22 |
| javispedro | I'll probably have to blow the dust off reprepro for the time being. It also goes well with this entire "going backwards" theme. | 19:23 |
| npm | looks like http://sheeplauncher.net/debs/ is what i was looking for | 19:23 |
| M4rtinK2 | nice domain name :) | 19:24 |
| wazd | well, maybe I'll sound stupid, but is it hard to just port fapman to harmattan and use maemo.org xtras as a defaault repository? | 19:25 |
| wazd | Cause i really don't want to get back to those times with packrat :) | 19:25 |
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| wazd | sorry for my ignorance anyway :D | 19:28 |
| javispedro | wazd: the idea is to eventually have a common meego repo | 19:31 |
| javispedro | but this seems more like a obstacle race than anything else. | 19:31 |
| divan | How to get default theme background color in QML? | 19:33 |
| rm_work | npm: yes that's my repo, lol | 19:34 |
| rm_work | npm: what were you looking for? :P | 19:34 |
| rm_work | sheeplauncher.net is johnx's domain | 19:34 |
| wazd | javispedro: yeah, but we still don't have any packag manager except that extravagant built-in updater :) | 19:34 |
| rm_work | i pay for half of the VM so i can use it :P | 19:35 |
| fiferboy | divan: Do you mean set the colour scheme so all the widgets have the correct highlight colours? | 19:38 |
| wazd | fiferboy: ! o/ | 19:39 |
| divan | fiferboy, Not exactly. Currently I don't want to change the theme. And now I have Rectangle with default color is set to 'white'. But all other widgets seems to use some kind of light grey color and I'd like Rectangle to be of the same color. | 19:40 |
| fiferboy | divan: I'm not sure how to get the colour of the default widgets | 19:41 |
| fiferboy | I don't know the answer to my intrepetation of your question either :) | 19:41 |
| fiferboy | I was hoping someone would, but it seems not possible in QML ATM | 19:42 |
| fiferboy | Hi wazd | 19:42 |
| wazd | fiferboy: how's it going? Had crazy birthday celebration? :) | 19:45 |
| fiferboy | wazd: It's going good. Birthday was nice and quiet (the way I like it) | 19:47 |
| wazd | fiferboy: yeeeah, we all know how you like "quiet" :D | 19:49 |
| wazd | fiferboy: especially when it comes to songs from 80's-90's :D | 19:49 |
| wazd | fiferboy: anyway, do you have any apps to test? :) | 19:52 |
| fiferboy | wazd: "Lexicon" is ready to test from my repo | 19:55 |
| fiferboy | You can find it on Pack Rat | 19:55 |
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| tomma | fiferboy, you mean themes window background color or similiar with Qt Components? | 19:56 |
| * javispedro ponders when will be the right time to introduce the issue of nokia-binaries in suposedly OSS COBS | 19:56 | |
| fiferboy | tomma: IIUI in meego-touch-framework apps you can choose from a bunch of different colour themse that will make the widgets highlights follow the scheme | 19:57 |
| fiferboy | With Qt Components I haven't found a way to have anything other than blue | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: been there already | 19:58 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: in practice, the harmattan binaries aren't on the actual cobs, except as caching, AFAIK | 19:58 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: is this last week news? Last I remember where some long ago discussions about having to sign an EULA to use those in COBS | 19:59 |
| javispedro | s/where/were | 19:59 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: no idea how it was solved eventually but sometimes there's easy solutions to things, ie, too trivial issues | 19:59 |
| Stskeeps | do remember the cobs is driven by volunteers and they have more than enough in their hands after the patent fiasco | 20:00 |
| javispedro | yes, that's what "the right time" part was about ;) | 20:01 |
| javispedro | they hadn't been imported at all initially due to the EULA thing, but will try now again and see if it's been solved with this rate technical solution to a legal problem ;) | 20:02 |
| javispedro | *rare | 20:02 |
| tomma | fiferboy, there is theme object but i have no idea what you can get from it | 20:02 |
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| tomma | fiferboy, ok UIConstants.js contains some color defs | 20:05 |
| javispedro | oh, funnilty enough, COBS dependency resolver now thinks it has nokia-binaries but builder VM sources.list doesn't. | 20:07 |
| * javispedro retries, just in case. | 20:07 | |
| Stskeeps | not sure sources.list matters | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | isn't pulled in that way | 20:08 |
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| rm_work | my favorite response to most of those sort of legal issues is "i'm doing it anyway, you can go fsck yourself. sue me." just in this case it's a lot more likely someone will take that suggestion to heart | 20:09 |
| javispedro | this is as usual probably because I'm doing weird things | 20:09 |
| javispedro | I have this on build-depends: "opengles-sgx-img-common-dev [armel]" | 20:10 |
| Stskeeps | right, there's something about obs not being fond of those | 20:12 |
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| fiferboy | tomma: How do you access the theme object? | 20:16 |
| fiferboy | I have seen reference to it before | 20:16 |
| wazd | http://s61.radikal.ru/i171/1108/97/fe2f52036eb2.png <- what do you guys think? :) | 20:23 |
| fiferboy | wazd: Mockup or actual code? | 20:24 |
| wazd | fiferboy: mockup but it won't take too long to make such an app I guess | 20:24 |
| fiferboy | Looks nice | 20:25 |
| wazd | Also I'm thinking about color-coding temperatures | 20:26 |
| wazd | like orange for hot and blue for cold | 20:26 |
| npm | rm_work: thanks for the repo ... i wanted mplayer ... was also looking for ffmpeg. | 20:26 |
| wazd | but I'm not sure bout it | 20:26 |
| * npm an hour late | 20:27 | |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_work, yeah, but what if they do? :P | 20:27 |
| rm_work | lol dunno :P i go broke? | 20:29 |
| rm_work | npm: i'll look at compiling ffmeg | 20:29 |
| javispedro | "The setup of the repository is broken, build not possible"? | 20:31 |
| npm | while you're at it :-) ... http://code.google.com/p/spekle/ | 20:31 |
| npm | ^^ rm_work | 20:31 |
| * javispedro attacks OBS with Delta Force .... critical damage! | 20:31 | |
| fiferboy | javispedro: Do you have multiple source code versions for that pakcage? | 20:31 |
| npm | thanks for ffmpeg. rm_work.... it's actually a dependency for some functionality in http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1_0_6_armel.deb | 20:32 |
| rm_work | k | 20:32 |
| javispedro | fiferboy: you mean multiple source packages? no, I delete the previous one before commiting a new one. | 20:33 |
| npm | as the "download to audio" makes use of it to extract audio from videos | 20:33 |
| rm_work | you can do that with mencoder | 20:33 |
| rm_work | but yeah | 20:33 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: That's what I meant. I ran into trouble until I deleted the old ones | 20:33 |
| rcg1 | anyone knows how to add entries to the status indicator menu drop down list? | 20:33 |
| wazd | fiferboy: http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/1108/d1/a00584973e7f.png <- what do you think bout color coding? :) | 20:34 |
| npm | (and if someone knows the gstreamer equivalent that would invoke the DSPs, that would be cool too) | 20:34 |
| rcg1 | afaik you need http://apidocs.meego.com/git-tip/mtf-old/meegotouch-systemui/mstatusindicatormenuextensioninterface_8h.html but i can't find it anywhere | 20:34 |
| npm | although that may not be necc. for audio extraction | 20:34 |
| javispedro | fiferboy: thanks for the hint I am to blame though ;) | 20:34 |
| rcg1 | another source of information is: http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-systemui/trees/master/demos/plugins | 20:34 |
| rcg1 | are these the right places to look at? | 20:34 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: With OBS it is _always_ user error ;) | 20:34 |
| fiferboy | wazd: That looks pretty cool! | 20:35 |
| divan | wazd, colors are pretty intuitive | 20:36 |
| rcg1 | wazd: nice work.. and yeah colors are naturally understandable | 20:36 |
| rm_work | npm: what version is spekle on? | 20:37 |
| rm_work | don't see it anywhere | 20:37 |
| lcuk | wazd, ++ on the subtle color hinting | 20:39 |
| lcuk | very nice effect :) | 20:39 |
| wazd | maybe we can go even further and slightly change "today" background :) http://s51.radikal.ru/i134/1108/45/36c7a8930b0e.png | 20:40 |
| RST38h | moooo wazd | 20:40 |
| wazd | RST38h: o/ | 20:40 |
| javispedro | Seemingly I broke OBS =) | 20:51 |
| javispedro | ah well | 20:51 |
| javispedro | looking at the queue I see I'm not the only one who did | 20:51 |
| M4rtinK2 | so it was you :) | 20:53 |
| RST38h | javispedro: evening! | 20:54 |
| M4rtinK2 | looks pretty dead | 20:54 |
| javispedro | evening RST38h, got the device? | 20:54 |
| RST38h | javis: yea | 20:54 |
| javispedro | M4rtinK2: no wonder, with four packages stuck there for hours | 20:54 |
| RST38h | javis: currently hacking QMainWindow, trying to get access to that bar at the bottom | 20:54 |
| RST38h | I have found a place where Qt creates it in the source code | 20:55 |
| javispedro | you are using old school Qt? | 20:55 |
| javispedro | are you sure it's not the bar drawn by mcompositor? | 20:55 |
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| RST38h | yea | 20:56 |
| javispedro | and COBS is down! | 20:56 |
| * javispedro pats himself on the bac | 20:56 | |
| javispedro | k | 20:56 |
| rm_work | npm: wow, lot of depends here :/ | 20:56 |
| npm | yes, if you speak of spekle, yes. | 20:58 |
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| npm | i think if i start working on that again, my head will explode :-) | 20:58 |
| rm_work | lol yes | 20:58 |
| rm_work | and ffmpeg | 20:58 |
| javispedro | bt | 20:59 |
| javispedro | w | 20:59 |
| javispedro | when you upload ffmpeg, do you enable the restricted codecs or not? | 20:59 |
| javispedro | you are talking about x264 so I bet yes? | 20:59 |
| rm_work | i'm working on ffmpeg | 20:59 |
| rm_work | getting as many codecs in as possible | 20:59 |
| rm_work | but it takes a lot of efforrt | 20:59 |
| rm_work | i'm better with mplayer | 20:59 |
| * javispedro ignores the legal part of that and congratulates rm_work | 21:00 | |
| npm | rm_work: sweet | 21:00 |
| fiferboy | Dammit javispedro, I was trying to build something on OBS when you brought it down >:| | 21:00 |
| RST38h | javispedro: anyway what did you do to obs? =) | 21:00 |
| wazd | RST38h: he used it, obviously :D | 21:01 |
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| javispedro | I hit "rebuild" on a package that had "repository configuration errors" | 21:01 |
| javispedro | it's now back up and it is building | 21:02 |
| javispedro | so I guess it worked! | 21:02 |
| fiferboy | I can't view the log of my application building, so I have to assume it is still going | 21:03 |
| javispedro | yeah me neither, and it's been building for 38 minutes already | 21:03 |
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| javispedro | that's impossible | 21:03 |
| javispedro | either way someone's terminal package has been on the queue for 9 hours | 21:04 |
| fiferboy | lol | 21:04 |
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| RST38h | Ok, good news: | 21:07 |
| RST38h | the QApplication::setFont() thing works | 21:07 |
| hiemanshu | RST38h: it has to :P | 21:07 |
| RST38h | So, we can now have a decently working Communi IRC client, if MOhammad cares to make the change | 21:07 |
| hiemanshu | well the buttons will still be small | 21:08 |
| javispedro | fiferboy: this time I think it's been you the one who crashed the COBS frontend =) | 21:09 |
| javispedro | you job's also stuck. | 21:09 |
| RST38h | hiemanshu: No | 21:09 |
| hiemanshu | RST38h: fixing font size fixes that too? | 21:09 |
| RST38h | hiemanshu: The buttons will have to resize with the font | 21:09 |
| RST38h | at least they seem to do here | 21:10 |
| hiemanshu | ah | 21:10 |
| M4rtinK2 | my GI build seems to be stuck too... | 21:10 |
| lcuk | wazd, where is the omweather app running? is there possibility to add to the lock screen? | 21:10 |
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| M4rtinK2 | and I can't get to the overview page to cancel the build :) | 21:11 |
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| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: around? | 21:12 |
| javispedro | M4rtinK2: according to this, it just went through | 21:12 |
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| hiemanshu | RST38h: I cant remember the correct XLFD for the dejavu font to test | 21:14 |
| hiemanshu | using the -font param | 21:14 |
| RST38h | hidemanshu: setPointSize(24) | 21:15 |
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| RST38h | hidemanshu: forget the fontfamily, although you can set it to "Nokia Pure" | 21:15 |
| M4rtinK2 | ah, I see | 21:15 |
| hiemanshu | RST38h: well I want to test it without actually messing with the code, so wondering | 21:15 |
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| M4rtinK2 | yay for rpc timeout | 21:16 |
| * javispedro does not understand what is going on behind COBS queue. Probably human intervention. Thanks then. | 21:16 | |
| RST38h | hiemanshu: -font will not work. Dunno why | 21:17 |
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| hiemanshu | RST38h: how did you try to use -font? | 21:17 |
| hiemanshu | just normal name or size wont work really | 21:18 |
| hiemanshu | you need to use XLFD for the font | 21:18 |
| hiemanshu | also IIRC Qt compiled with fontconfig will not accept the -font argument | 21:18 |
| hiemanshu | RST38h: 'The font should be specified using an X logical font description. Note that this option is ignored when Qt is built with fontconfig support enabled.' from the docs | 21:20 |
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| RST38h | hiemanshu: <sigh> It works when you do QApplication::setFont(). | 21:21 |
| RST38h | hiemanshu: I do not care why it does not work otherwise. | 21:22 |
| hiemanshu | RST38h: yeah, because that it how you would normally do it too | 21:22 |
| javispedro | the communi client looks decent | 21:23 |
| javispedro | in fact it might even require less paintwork than xchat to make it pass as a native app (if anyone wanted) =) | 21:23 |
| M4rtinK2 | I hope "No AEGIS_HASH_FDS environment" is fixed in the near future - it is making the logs LOOONG :) | 21:23 |
| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: why ? They do not shop up after the real build, just during the very beginning, initialization stage | 21:24 |
| fiferboy | There, my build went smoothly that time | 21:24 |
| djszapi|windows | it is not a biggie since it does not pollute the real happenings | 21:24 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi|windows: lol @ |windows :P | 21:24 |
| djszapi|windows | * shop = show :) | 21:24 |
| javispedro | fiferboy: yeah, my resubmitted build also went fine this time (and I didn't change a letter, so it wasn't my fault after all ;P ) | 21:25 |
| djszapi|windows | hiemanshu: well, yeah I made an NSIS installer for our cross-platform project by using cmake. | 21:25 |
| djszapi|windows | :p | 21:25 |
| RST38h | javispedro: XChat is gonna be hopeless, custom Gtk display widget and all | 21:25 |
| javispedro | well | 21:26 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: but is is still part of the live log so the page with is like a kilometer long | 21:26 |
| javispedro | Gtk apps are still NOT entirely out of the question.. | 21:26 |
| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: not sure why it matters. | 21:26 |
| M4rtinK2 | javispedro: I'm actually trying to compile GTK and Clutter :) | 21:26 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: but GTK is meh, and will never get a native theme, so well if its but ugly, meh | 21:27 |
| javispedro | Compiling is easy | 21:27 |
| hiemanshu | butt* | 21:27 |
| javispedro | the hard part is integrating | 21:27 |
| M4rtinK2 | no i'ts not :) | 21:27 |
| javispedro | I already did it .. | 21:27 |
| lcuk | M4rtinK2, ... | 21:27 |
| M4rtinK2 | I'm working on it third day in row not getting any closer :) | 21:27 |
| djszapi|windows | evening lcuk :) | 21:27 |
| javispedro | M4rtinK2: what problem are you hitting? | 21:28 |
| M4rtinK2 | javispedro: oh ? :) | 21:28 |
| lcuk | evening djszapi|windows | 21:28 |
| javispedro | hiemanshu: who needs a native theme when you have gtkqt ;) ? | 21:28 |
| lcuk | do you want to tinker with a little windows toy? | 21:28 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: even that wont work until you fix meegotouch-qt-style :P | 21:28 |
| javispedro | it probably does not work with gtk3, but I'm more interested in the older Maemo versions of Gtk+... | 21:28 |
| M4rtinK2 | javispedro: mostly with Gobject-Introspection | 21:28 |
| M4rtinK2 | and also pixman does not want to build | 21:29 |
| javispedro | M4rtinK2: try your stuff on scratchbox first | 21:29 |
| M4rtinK2 | well yeah, should be faster | 21:30 |
| djszapi|windows | lcuk: I am porting libliqbase to windows8 :) | 21:30 |
| javispedro | and, considering COBS seems to be introducing random failures, easier. | 21:30 |
| M4rtinK2 | but it should still end on OBS in the end | 21:30 |
| javispedro | M4rtinK2: in the _very_ end. | 21:30 |
| M4rtinK2 | javispedro: okok :) | 21:30 |
| rm_work | i've nearly given up on COBS for now | 21:30 |
| lcuk | djszapi|windows, porting? | 21:30 |
| rm_work | just using SB to get anything actually compiled | 21:31 |
| lcuk | if so cool! | 21:31 |
| lcuk | I wasn't sure there was a yuv overlay to use | 21:31 |
| lcuk | is that your new project? | 21:31 |
| djszapi|windows | =p :) | 21:31 |
| RST38h | javispedro: take a look here: | 21:32 |
| M4rtinK2 | javispedro: so basically I should just build binary packages in sb | 21:32 |
| M4rtinK2 | install them and then compile packages that depend on them ? | 21:32 |
| RST38h | javispedro:http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/blobs/4.7/src/gui/widgets/qmainwindow.cpp | 21:32 |
| RST38h | javispedro: search for QMainWindowLayoutPrivate::init | 21:33 |
| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: it cannot be that ultimate rule, try to use your sanity | 21:33 |
| djszapi|windows | if a dependency cannot be achived, do not try to force it :) | 21:33 |
| djszapi|windows | but yeah, that straight-forward in general | 21:33 |
| M4rtinK2 | well, some of the dependencies HAVE to be bogus :) | 21:34 |
| djszapi|windows | :) | 21:34 |
| M4rtinK2 | like espeak -> portaudio19 -> libjack-dev -> libraw1394-dev -> lynx-cur -> openssh-client :) | 21:35 |
| djszapi|windows | well, I packaged portaudio19 | 21:35 |
| javispedro | RST38h: you mean QMainWindowPrivate::init? | 21:35 |
| djszapi|windows | I also left out the libjack part | 21:35 |
| djszapi|windows | that is reasonable, yeah ;) | 21:35 |
| M4rtinK2 | I think I tried your package but espeak didn't like it | 21:35 |
| javispedro | portaudio on the n950? | 21:36 |
| javispedro | ah, ok, I confused it. | 21:36 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: I'll try again and report results :) | 21:37 |
| djszapi|windows | I think my package is actually now broken | 21:37 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: any idea which espeak version should I use ? :) | 21:37 |
| M4rtinK2 | oh | 21:37 |
| djszapi|windows | since we made a shared community repository | 21:37 |
| djszapi|windows | but I think there are people who cloned it from me when it worked | 21:37 |
| djszapi|windows | I always use the debian testing, wheezy | 21:37 |
| javispedro | djszapi|windows: (shared community repo) WHERE? =) | 21:38 |
| djszapi|windows | read the wikipage | 21:38 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: this one seems to build: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=portaudio19&project=home%3Asandst1%3Aharmattan | 21:38 |
| djszapi|windows | yep | 21:39 |
| javispedro | so it works in that you pull packages instead of packagers pushing them | 21:40 |
| * fiferboy sighs | 21:41 | |
| fiferboy | Is there *really* no date picker in QML for Harmattan? | 21:41 |
| javispedro | fiferboy: there seems to be one in the qt components sample application | 21:42 |
| djszapi|windows | javispedro: packagers push packages to a shared repository. | 21:42 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: Yeah, I am just looking there now | 21:42 |
| fiferboy | But there is nothing mentioned in the documentation, so I have a feeling they implemented their own | 21:42 |
| fiferboy | Aha! It is in com.nokia.extras | 21:44 |
| fiferboy | I never knew about this before | 21:44 |
| fiferboy | This is what the "extras" gallery means! I feel a whole new level of understanding | 21:45 |
| javispedro | do not worry, the understanding will eventually dissipate. | 21:45 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: I hope so, this is a very unfamiliar sensation | 21:46 |
| rm_work | oh man, so many depends | 21:47 |
| rm_work | npm, you better be happy once i get ffmpeg :P | 21:47 |
| rm_work | OH | 21:48 |
| rm_work | IS THAT WHERE ALL THOSE WIDGETS ARE | 21:48 |
| rm_work | #(*%^#*%&#$ | 21:48 |
| rm_work | was wondering why i had only like 10 basic crap widgets to choose from | 21:48 |
| rm_work | and QML seemed kinda lame as i couldn't figure out where to get more | 21:49 |
| javispedro | what, are you using a VISUAL interface builder? | 21:49 |
| rm_work | QtCreator? :P | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | just write it in hand, you imbecile | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | even my wife can write qt components and qml | 21:49 |
| rm_work | yes | 21:49 |
| rm_work | i do | 21:49 |
| harbaum | Mine, too! | 21:49 |
| rm_work | but i used the visual thing to see what they were called | 21:49 |
| rm_work | and to see what was available | 21:50 |
| rm_work | how else would i know | 21:50 |
| lcuk | rm_work, apparantly whinging in #harmattan | 21:50 |
| javispedro | this visual thing sounds like wp7 | 21:50 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Hey! My whinging led to a self-discovery! | 21:50 |
| lcuk | of course | 21:51 |
| lcuk | who in here are also publishing their builds to rpm meego x86 for instance? | 21:51 |
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| lcuk | or is the obs here purely used for one kind of app? | 21:52 |
| javispedro | lcuk: I was just going to, wondering whether I can push both rpm spec and debian dsc to the same obs package or I need to create both | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | obs can do both types of packaging in same | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | 'obs package' | 21:52 |
| javispedro | s/both/two/ | 21:52 |
| lcuk | javispedro, would expect if your project contains both it would work, and Stskeeps confirmed that I tihnk | 21:53 |
| javispedro | nice to know | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | i think it's something about debian.tar.gz and stuff | 21:53 |
| javispedro | I do not know how that part works | 21:53 |
| djszapi|windows | javispedro: you can, there are gazillion examples ;) | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS | 21:53 |
| javispedro | I read a bit about the debian part, and found that I can use old style 1.0 packaging | 21:53 |
| djszapi|windows | yep, but does not make sense to use that | 21:54 |
| javispedro | depends on where your interest is -- if I want to share source package with fremantle, it does :) | 21:54 |
| M4rtinK2 | lcuk: I think there should be a wiki page/howto about this dual packaging :) | 21:55 |
| djszapi|windows | javispedro: please try to do quality packages. | 21:55 |
| rcg1 | did anybody compile a vnc client yet? | 21:55 |
| djszapi|windows | yes | 21:55 |
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| lcuk | M4rtinK2, for obs it should be a case of just putting the right info into the root folder | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | i think harmattan should just man up and take rpm packages | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:55 |
| djszapi|windows | even vnc gui actually | 21:55 |
| lcuk | ++ | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | ie, able to install meego compliant ones | 21:56 |
| rcg1 | djszapi|windows: sweet.. got a link at hand? | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | (yes, that's restricted to meego api) | 21:56 |
| djszapi|windows | Stskeeps: what do you mean ? | 21:56 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: if you believe the biggest problem with compliance is just that, well, that can probably be fixed... | 21:56 |
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| djszapi|windows | automatic spec -> debian converter ? | 21:56 |
| rcg1 | else i'll just google a little more later | 21:56 |
| djszapi|windows | that is not really harmattan specific stuff :p | 21:56 |
| M4rtinK2 | lcuk: so I'll have a package that has both spec & dsc inside ? | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: people have repacked opera for meego arm to harmattan.. | 21:57 |
| javispedro | just ship a rpm.deb with a preloaded db including the few key packages and call it a day | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: yes | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | in fact, i'm putting out 100 eur for those who will post such a solution :P | 21:58 |
| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: may I have a question, why do you duplicate packages ? | 21:58 |
| djszapi|windows | instead of using the shared repository ? | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | just to show how easy it could have been to solve this crap once and for all long ago | 21:58 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: what do you mean ? | 21:59 |
| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: portaudio19 is already available at more places. | 21:59 |
| javispedro | update manager would be a problem | 21:59 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: I just branched the package from you repository | 22:00 |
| javispedro | aegis on the other side can probably be fixed as there was at least work started to make it work with rpm | 22:00 |
| M4rtinK2 | or is there another way ? | 22:00 |
| djszapi|windows | use the shared repository please | 22:00 |
| djszapi|windows | javispedro, no it was not ? | 22:01 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: how does it work ? | 22:01 |
| djszapi|windows | rcg1: this one ? https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=x11vnc&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan | 22:01 |
| rcg1 | djszapi|windows: great! thanks | 22:01 |
| M4rtinK2 | I'm learning as I go so I might have missed something important | 22:01 |
| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan | 22:01 |
| javispedro | djszapi|windows: there's this, no idea how complete it is: https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-platform-security/rpm | 22:02 |
| djszapi|windows | if you miss a package feel free to propose and we can set you maintainer | 22:02 |
| djszapi|windows | javispedro: you are wrong, it has nothing to do with aegis | 22:02 |
| djszapi|windows | it was for meego. | 22:02 |
| javispedro | and it is very, very, very, very similar to aegis. | 22:03 |
| djszapi|windows | aegis cannot fix it.... | 22:03 |
| djszapi|windows | since it is not aegis project. | 22:03 |
| javispedro | ? | 22:03 |
| djszapi|windows | two different projects. | 22:03 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: well I thought this is a repository for "working" packages | 22:03 |
| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: yep, portaudio19 is working in sandst1's branch | 22:03 |
| fiferboy | Back to square one: "com.nokia.extras 1.1" doesn't work on N950 | 22:03 |
| djszapi|windows | we should just copy paste it :p | 22:04 |
| M4rtinK2 | like I first make sure it works in my harmattan repository and then send a push request in the community one | 22:04 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: You were right, understanding is fleeting | 22:04 |
| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: it works in sandst1's branch | 22:04 |
| djszapi|windows | we should just grab it for now | 22:04 |
| javispedro | djszapi|windows: not saying it will work out of the box (but it even might), but the idea is very much the same (passing hashes to a fd) | 22:04 |
| djszapi|windows | javispedro: then again :) aegis cannot fix it. | 22:04 |
| fiferboy | Although, /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras exists | 22:05 |
| fiferboy | Maybe just a version issue? | 22:05 |
| djszapi|windows | aegis has nothing to do with rpm | 22:05 |
| djszapi|windows | the "Software Distribution Area" of aegis deals with dpkg wrapper, that is | 22:05 |
| javispedro | djszapi|windows: what do you mean by "fix"? | 22:05 |
| javispedro | sign? let it run? | 22:05 |
| djszapi|windows | [22:00] <javispedro> aegis on the other side can probably be fixed as there was at least work started to make it work with rpm | 22:05 |
| javispedro | ah, ok =) | 22:05 |
| djszapi|windows | no aegis cannot be fixed by design, period | 22:06 |
| djszapi|windows | what you mean just do not know is called smack :) | 22:06 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: isnt the one in sandst1's branch .spec based ? | 22:06 |
| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: nop | 22:06 |
| javispedro | so there I meant "aegis can be hit with a large enough hammer so that it considers binaries installed by RPM as legit as those installed by dpkg" | 22:07 |
| M4rtinK2 | this one ? https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=portaudio&project=home%3Asandst1 | 22:07 |
| npm | rm_work: i'll be happy even w/o ffmpeg.. but i'll be even happier with... thanks | 22:07 |
| rm_work | npm: NEARLY there | 22:07 |
| fiferboy | FYI, com.nokia.extras 1.0 works on the N950 | 22:08 |
| rm_work | had to actually fix some source code to get it to compile, lol | 22:08 |
| * javispedro ponders why do I always eventually end up talking about aegis | 22:08 | |
| * javispedro decides to call it a day and go rest | 22:08 | |
| javispedro | cya | 22:08 |
| rm_work | npm: vorbis and theora are my last two depends, compiling them now | 22:09 |
| djszapi|windows | javispedro: to be honest, I do not understand what is the purpose of your saying with rpm | 22:09 |
| djszapi|windows | rpm is not the guaranteed stuff there, period | 22:09 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: so when I see a working package in some repository, what is the right way of using it ? branching it to my repository or some other way ? | 22:11 |
| javispedro | djszapi|windows: see above discussion with Stskeeps | 22:11 |
| javispedro | have to really go now, cya | 22:11 |
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| djszapi|windows | Stskeeps: I did not get the purpose of using rpm for fake purposes on Harmattan | 22:12 |
| djszapi|windows | Could you ellaborate please ? | 22:12 |
| djszapi|windows | I actually tried this Well I tried to change the fiasco image and I think validator init is protected as well as bb5 validator-init is checked by the kernel and bb5 is doing some stuff with the PA so even if you manage to replace the binaries you won't disable security | 22:12 |
| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: well, if it works it is better to put into the shared repository | 22:13 |
| djszapi|windows | so that others can have access to it easily. | 22:13 |
| djszapi|windows | not from 20-30 scrach personal repository :p | 22:13 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: of course, this is the ultimate goal :) | 22:14 |
| M4rtinK2 | but I'd really like to see that it works before dumping non-building package + half a ton of its dependencies that are not actually needed in there | 22:15 |
| djszapi|windows | all the dependencies are available in the shared repository | 22:15 |
| djszapi|windows | there is some issue with portaudio19 build in the shared repository, but unfortunately I am not having time to investigate. | 22:16 |
| M4rtinK2 | so should I just create a espeak package and submit it in the shared repository ? | 22:17 |
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| RST38h | Any QML gurus here? (and I mean people who know what they are doing) | 22:25 |
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| frals | RST38h: whats up? | 22:26 |
| frals | not saying im a guru, but ive done a bit of qml :p | 22:26 |
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| RST38h | hehe | 22:27 |
| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: dodgy mobile internet :) Back to the question, I am just making local osc test with the shared repository usage for the dependencies and if it works I push it. Unfortunately, c-obs is tiresome for me to go through the same process twice. | 22:27 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, no. | 22:27 |
| RST38h | anyway, I would like to run QDeclarativeView event loop without calling QApplication:exec(). Is there a way to do tht? | 22:27 |
| GAN900 | We lack those people. | 22:27 |
| RST38h | Ideally, I want to start it and continue with my own execution when QDeclarativeView closes | 22:28 |
| frals | that, i dont know i'm afraid. i guess #qt-qml or #qt might know | 22:28 |
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| RST38h | auke: Not familiar with Qt's event loops, are you? =) | 22:30 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: I have send a submit request to the share repository | 22:30 |
| M4rtinK2 | for Espeak 1.44 from Natty | 22:31 |
| RST38h | actually, found it already | 22:31 |
| RST38h | QEventLoop Loop; | 22:31 |
| RST38h | Loop.exec() (and Loop.exit() inside the loop) | 22:31 |
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| djszapi|windows | M4rtinK2: you are a maintainer, please use it directly, try to make your best and feel yourself responsible if you break something :p | 22:33 |
| rm_work | what version of arm are we? | 22:34 |
| djszapi|windows | armv7el | 22:34 |
| rm_work | hrm | 22:34 |
| rm_work | ok | 22:34 |
| rm_work | so | 22:34 |
| rm_work | --enable-neon --enable-armvfp --enable-armv5te --enable-armv6 --enable-armv6t2 --extra-cflags="-mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfloat-abi=softfp -mfpu=neon" | 22:34 |
| rm_work | i should change that to... | 22:34 |
| M4rtinK2 | djszapi|windows: hh ok :) | 22:36 |
| rm_work | hrm don't see one for armv7 | 22:36 |
| rm_work | we still cortex-a8 ? | 22:38 |
| tomma | yep | 22:39 |
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| Stskeeps | no armv5te | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | it blows up with mfloat-abi=hard | 22:41 |
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| RST38h | BTW, can I have both PageStackWindow and some pages in a single qml file? | 22:58 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Yes | 22:58 |
| fiferboy | Create your pages inline and set the page stack initialPage to one of them | 22:59 |
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| RST38h | fiferboy: You mean, I can't have them underneath pagestack and refer to them by names? Need to have them inside pagestack { } ? | 23:01 |
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| fiferboy | RST38h: Yes, they have to go inside pagestack, but you can refer to them by id | 23:18 |
| RST38h | ah, ok | 23:18 |
| fiferboy | A QML file is only allowed to have one top-level element | 23:18 |
| RST38h | a small change then | 23:18 |
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| RST38h | and I guess for the message boxes one has to use MeegoTouch? | 23:19 |
| javispedro | technically if you use MeegoTouch you're doomed. | 23:22 |
| RST38h | IDs cannot start with an uppercase letter | 23:22 |
| javispedro | You have to use the com.nokia.* components | 23:22 |
| RST38h | javispedro: That is officially, not technically. Technically, mostof the Nokia's own UI uses meegotouch extensively. | 23:22 |
| rm_work | damn, ffmpeg is defeating me | 23:22 |
| javispedro | I know, only Facebook and Maps use QML | 23:22 |
| rm_work | "gcc is unable to create an executable file." | 23:23 |
| RST38h | And, I only need a freaking message box, for Tentacled's sake! | 23:23 |
| GAN900 | fiferboy, did you split the qml files yet? | 23:23 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Yes, if the ID starts uppercase it is refering to a component file AFAICT | 23:23 |
| rm_work | how is it failing this hardcore T_T | 23:23 |
| RST38h | OMG | 23:23 |
| fiferboy | GAN900: Of course now, that would be productive :P | 23:23 |
| RST38h | btw when MQL screws up it screws up really well, messes up the desktop | 23:23 |
| GAN900 | fiferboy, weak sauce. | 23:23 |
| fiferboy | GAN900: Have you made a good icon yet? | 23:24 |
| GAN900 | Yes, but I'm not giving it to you until you split the files. | 23:24 |
| * GAN900 me looks shiftily around the room. | 23:24 | |
| * GAN900 coughs. | 23:24 | |
| djszapi|windows | javispedro: you cannot bypass the security by using rm | 23:24 |
| djszapi|windows | *rpm | 23:24 |
| javispedro | ah, let's continue :) | 23:25 |
| djszapi|windows | "I actually tried this Well I tried to change the fiasco image and I think validator init is protected as well as bb5 validator-init is checked by the kernel and bb5 is doing some stuff with the PA so even if you manage to replace the binaries you won't disable security" | 23:25 |
| javispedro | ah, new topic | 23:25 |
| fiferboy | GAN900: Show me a grainy blurry-cam shot of it and I will split the files | 23:25 |
| javispedro | validator-init is checked by the kernel? hm.. | 23:25 |
| djszapi|windows | of course | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | rm_work: don't have mfloat-abi=hard | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | err, =softfp | 23:26 |
| rm_work | ah | 23:26 |
| rm_work | lol k | 23:26 |
| rm_work | i was like "yeah, not using hardfp" :P | 23:26 |
| rm_work | cool | 23:28 |
| rm_work | working i think | 23:28 |
| rm_work | thanks | 23:28 |
| javispedro | ah yes, bootloader passes the hash of validator-init | 23:29 |
| javispedro | via "vhash=stuffstuffstuff" cmdline | 23:29 |
| javispedro | however | 23:30 |
| javispedro | If there is R&D certificate present in the device then allow ... validator-init to run ... even if the SHA1 hash did not match." | 23:30 |
| djszapi|windows | R&D certificate is not PR. | 23:31 |
| javispedro | I bet. | 23:31 |
| djszapi|windows | and even if you could hack validator-init which is not the case, there is still a low-level bb5 defense | 23:32 |
| javispedro | either way, before I forget, the RPM stuff was not about bypassing but rather allowing it to do the same dpkg does (for "" origin only) | 23:32 |
| javispedro | so that Meego compliant OSS RPMs can be installed as is. | 23:33 |
| javispedro | but bb5 is used mostly for secure storage | 23:34 |
| djszapi|windows | at least I like how debian cares about the API breakages. That is awesome that no distribution cares about. | 23:34 |
| djszapi|windows | I would not really like to proceed with that workflow, I think the debian way is good enough. | 23:34 |
| djszapi|windows | rpm packaging.... :) | 23:34 |
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| djszapi|windows | yes and no | 23:35 |
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| djszapi|windows | there are other good bits there as well | 23:35 |
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| javispedro | but if you manage to control validator-init, you control the interesting bits -- you can disable enforcing. what you lose afterwards depends on whether DocScrutinizer's predictions are true or false ;) | 23:37 |
| javispedro | will you lose cellmo? nokia account? maps? gps? /me has no idea. | 23:38 |
| djszapi|windows | not getting you | 23:38 |
| djszapi|windows | you cannot turn off validator-init with the pr images. | 23:38 |
| RST38h | Ok, what do I do about this one: file:///opt/speccy/Config.qml:2:1: module "Qt.labs.components" version 1.1 is not installed ??? | 23:39 |
| djszapi|windows | it is of course simply not possible. | 23:39 |
| javispedro | "for now" :) | 23:39 |
| djszapi|windows | huh ? | 23:39 |
| djszapi|windows | I think the guess itself really is very wrong | 23:39 |
| rm_work | they say "it is simple not possible" for just about every security framework on every cellphone OS <_< and they keep getting hacked. i'll agree with javispedro "for now" | 23:39 |
| djszapi|windows | since that would seriously mean you turned off the kernel part of the security | 23:40 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Only version 1.0 is available on the device at this time, I think | 23:40 |
| RST38h | ok, replacing | 23:40 |
| djszapi|windows | rm_work: sorry, but this is really not an arguement | 23:40 |
| djszapi|windows | if it cannot be broken, it is good enough period | 23:41 |
| djszapi|windows | even if "anybody" says for now, yes, for now until it is not broken :) | 23:41 |
| rm_work | ? | 23:41 |
| rm_work | i think he's saying it will be broken | 23:41 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: any idea how I can bring the QML page to front, blocking my QMainWindow? | 23:41 |
| djszapi|windows | "for now" has not much technical meaning | 23:41 |
| djszapi|windows | rm_work: no, it is technically impossible. | 23:42 |
| rm_work | and now back to what i saifd | 23:42 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: You are loading a QML component from C++? | 23:42 |
| rm_work | they say "it is simple not possible" for just about every security framework on every cellphone OS <_< and they keep getting hacked. | 23:42 |
| javispedro | not really saying how, Nokia might even eventually relent and provide R&D cert. | 23:42 |
| djszapi|windows | rm_work: give me the steps | 23:42 |
| rm_work | we don't know YET. that's why we he said "for now" | 23:42 |
| djszapi|windows | so what ? | 23:42 |
| rm_work | i believe someone will figure it out | 23:42 |
| djszapi|windows | what is the consequence of "for now" ? | 23:43 |
| djszapi|windows | what do we benefit from this statement ? | 23:43 |
| rm_work | you keep saying it is never possible | 23:43 |
| djszapi|windows | seems quite useless to me | 23:43 |
| rm_work | we're just saying "it probably will be possible eventually" | 23:43 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: Yes | 23:43 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: Furthermore, I have got a normal QMainWindow and not running QApplication::exec() | 23:43 |
| djszapi|windows | rm_work: sorry, but I do not have time for non-technical chit-chat. Come back, when you have the steps, period | 23:44 |
| rm_work | wow | 23:44 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: So what happens when it loads the QML component? | 23:44 |
| rm_work | i wish i had /ignore for IRC trolls :/ | 23:44 |
| RST38h | Instead, I am processing events with QCoreApplication::processEvents() | 23:44 |
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| RST38h | fiferboy: immediately covers it with my QMainWindow, does not let me swipe any more | 23:44 |
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| RST38h | rm_you: You have /ignore | 23:44 |
| RST38h | rm_you: also have /kick and /mode +b, if you wish so | 23:45 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: You can _try_ setting the z property on your pagestack | 23:45 |
| rm_work | ah xchat does have ignore somehow | 23:45 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: But it sounds like the QMainWindow should not be showing up at all? | 23:45 |
| djszapi|windows | "for now" :D:D:D | 23:45 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: Well, I would guess it should go to the bottom | 23:45 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: called hide() on it now, let us see how it works... | 23:46 |
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| rm_work | awesome | 23:46 |
| RST38h | died. | 23:46 |
| rm_work | someone tell me next time he says something | 23:46 |
| rm_work | i think i got it working | 23:46 |
| javispedro | pssh. | 23:46 |
| javispedro | just forget about the entire thing | 23:47 |
| rm_work | it's not that really | 23:47 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: How is the pagestack being inserted? As it's own window, or /INTO/ the main window? | 23:47 |
| rm_work | i *will* systematically ignore anyone on this channel who says *anything* "just can't be done" | 23:47 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: as its own. just added existing wqmainwindow as parent, trsting | 23:47 |
| RST38h | testing | 23:47 |
| fiferboy | rm_work: You just can't ignore everyone like that. Can't be done. | 23:47 |
| RST38h | rm_work: add "you are not supposed to do it" morons | 23:48 |
| RST38h | rm_work: I have just ignored the entire forum.meego.com for this reason | 23:48 |
| rm_work | the reason we're all here is usually because we enjoy doing things that other people say can't be done :P | 23:48 |
| * djszapi|windows is not here because of that | 23:49 | |
| fiferboy | RST38h: I take it you are injecting some QML in FBReader? | 23:49 |
| rm_work | cellphone security frameworks is a silly example though, because it happens with just about every phone that comes to market, lol | 23:49 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: nah, much simpler for now | 23:49 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: trying to add a QML-based config page to my emulators | 23:50 |
| rm_work | so unless Nokia can do what Google and Apple can't, it should be *possible* to break | 23:50 |
| javispedro | they have something | 23:50 |
| javispedro | they were deadly serious, for some reason more than google or apple =) | 23:50 |
| rm_work | lol | 23:50 |
| rm_work | well, i've been toying with ideas about how to break aegis | 23:51 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Ah. Sounds useful for FBReader in the future, though :) | 23:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Desolder the SOC, solder one on which doesn't believe in such things. | 23:51 |
| djszapi|windows | javispedro: yes, we got very positive feedbacks compared to android or apple | 23:51 |
| djszapi|windows | that is true. | 23:51 |
| rm_work | haven't had time to try anything yet, and it's definitely very deeply embedded :) but i believe it can be done by someone dedicated enough | 23:51 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: QML is so orthogonal to the traditional Qt that I am afraid it will not be possible | 23:52 |
| rm_work | npm: do you mind if i don't include x264 as an ENCODER in ffmpeg? it should still be able to decode | 23:52 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: The interaction between QML and Qt code is actually pretty useful, though | 23:52 |
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| RST38h | fiferboy: Even for tis simple use case, I am seriously considering just going with the traditional Qt with a bit of Meegotouch where Qt does not | 23:53 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: I am trying to get this interaction working as we speek and failing miserably | 23:53 |
| javispedro | rm_work: btw, I have something for you :) | 23:53 |
| fiferboy | I have some complicated database models that are simple to use in QML, although model interaction is one of the better apects of this | 23:53 |
| javispedro | rm_work: http://pastebin.com/ULfZUBsx | 23:53 |
| javispedro | rm_work: those are the ffmpeg configure flags the pre1&2 used | 23:53 |
| RST38h | just doesn't work outside of a single documented scenario =( | 23:53 |
| rm_work | pre1 / pre2? | 23:53 |
| javispedro | palm | 23:53 |
| rm_work | ah lol | 23:53 |
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| rm_work | i'm using the flags from Maemo5 | 23:54 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: I guess a dialog to contain the QML doesn't help any? | 23:54 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, in a similar way that visual basic worked well with activex, qml does have its positive aspects and things it is good at | 23:54 |
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| javispedro | rm_work: mentioning it because it is a rather complete set with all the popular commercial codecs | 23:54 |
| rm_work | hrm | 23:54 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I am exceedingly impressed with the way QML list views work with my large database model | 23:54 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: On the contrary, a QML-based dialog would be very very nice to have | 23:55 |
| RST38h | Would solve my problem | 23:55 |
| fiferboy | Using thread with signals and slots so as not to block the QML UI is quite easy too (after some trial and error) | 23:55 |
| lcuk | nice | 23:55 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: What about a Qt dialog with the QML loaded in it? | 23:55 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, i have an app rolling around head recently | 23:55 |
| RST38h | nah, head enough threads with android, don't want to bring them here unless absolutely necessary | 23:55 |
| lcuk | for making a garden management system | 23:55 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: how do I achieve that? | 23:55 |
| lcuk | something to require a plants database | 23:56 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Create a QT Dialog and use a declarative view and create.component to populate it with the pagestack? | 23:56 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Should be possible, but I haven't tried that yet | 23:56 |
| javispedro | there's also the com.nokia.* qml dialogs... ;) | 23:56 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: A plant spotting app? :) | 23:57 |
| javispedro | they are clones of the meegotouch ones, written in qml | 23:57 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: I can tell you right now, the datepickerdialog is not ready in 1.0 | 23:57 |
| fiferboy | Neither is the tumbler dialog | 23:57 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, no | 23:57 |
| javispedro | WHAT? a plain slot machine date picker and is not even working? | 23:57 |
| javispedro | but then why it's on the demo application? | 23:58 |
| lcuk | a garden system, where I can using gps and climate | 23:58 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: The powerful drop-in replacement isn't working | 23:58 |
| lcuk | know when to sow seeds etc | 23:58 |
| lcuk | for a blossoming garden at a specified time | 23:58 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: For the demo application they pretty much write their own from scratch | 23:58 |
| lcuk | coordination system really | 23:58 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Horticulture made easy? | 23:58 |
| javispedro | fiferboy: if you have the time and the qml expertise, you could write your own and publish it | 23:58 |
| lcuk | i suppose the same algorithm will be used already in cooking recipe programs | 23:58 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, just idle thoughts | 23:59 |
| javispedro | make it calendar-ish instead of slot machine | 23:59 |
| lcuk | spending time in the garden recently | 23:59 |
| fiferboy | javispedro: That is pretty much what I am looking at now | 23:59 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: I tried embeddeding it into a dialog and filed | 23:59 |
| RST38h | failed | 23:59 |
| RST38h | (shit, I ate this keyboard) | 23:59 |
| javispedro | wow, you must have been really hungry. | 23:59 |
| fiferboy | RST38h: Is it doing the same thing? Showing the main window in front? | 23:59 |
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