IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2011-07-19

GAN900	gone be a lot of ellipses.	00:00
DocScrutinizer	in appstarter? yeah nice ;-P	00:00
javispedro	sensorfw only polls the accelerometer	00:00
DocScrutinizer	""please use WidgetGa..."	00:00
javispedro	it is each and every app which calculates what its orientation should be depending on whatever logic they want	00:01
javispedro	which is why I was saying that uniform rotation lock in Harmattan is impossible, and I mentioned this weeks ago	00:01
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: obviously sensorFW has to provide a physical and a logical orientations, and the two are largely unrelated	00:02
javispedro	it also the way it will work on my SDL -- you listen to the accelerometer and notify system which orientation "your logic" decides --	00:02
javispedro	and also the way it works on WebOS.	00:02
javispedro	(which Harmattan is clearly based upon ;)) j/k	00:02
javispedro	(but only this last sentence is the joke)	00:02
DocScrutinizer	the whole situation is a bad joke	00:03
Jaffa	Venemo: Memento	00:04
* Jaffa goes +1 on his naming things doodah		00:04
DocScrutinizer	I mean I'm not the ueber system architect so nobody else ever before could have noticed that - so why is there no clean definitive advisory on that?	00:04
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: I want orientation based on face recognition	00:04
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: fair enough - and for sure your orientation wouldn't care at all about accelerometers then	00:05
Venemo	Jaffa, :)	00:05
DocScrutinizer	and also work in spaceshuttle	00:05
Venemo	current ideas are MemGame and YourMemory	00:05
Venemo	Memento sounds nice :)	00:05
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: actually that's a brilliant idea	00:05
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Also solves the issue when I'm holding the device in bed, lying down and it decides to be portrait (when I want it to be landscape)	00:06
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: the cam already has face detection	00:06
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: I bet the face orientation comes for free with that	00:06
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: exactly	00:07
javispedro	Jaffa: knowing the rules behind MTF orientation detection serves me well there ;) (on inverted landscape it will be on portrait if last orientation was portrait)	00:07
rm_work	GAN900: i'm legitimately excited about writing a backlight widget (if someone doesn't beat me to it)	00:08
rm_work	with the source opened for the MCE lib, and the neat way the statusbar applets are oriented, it should be a breeze to just shove it under the volume one :P	00:09
rm_work	and significantly less config necessary	00:09
rm_work	who was it that was also doing this?	00:09
rm_work	MohammadAG?	00:09
rm_work	I forget	00:09
DocScrutinizer	may I dare and boldly introduce a int user-screen-orientation, range 0..360 unit degrees	00:09
rm_work	i guess if you beat me to it, so be it, i'll just work on something else	00:09
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: :)	00:14
rm_work	DocScrutinizer: rofl	00:16
rm_work	does xrandr let me do it? :P	00:17
lcuk	rm_work, have you seen the n8 brightness control?	00:17
rm_work	lcuk: nope	00:17
lcuk	it is quite nifty	00:17
rm_work	honestly i'd be happy with a copy of the volume control slider that controls brightness instead	00:17
rm_work	but	00:17
rm_work	let's see what it has	00:17
rm_work	you got a screenshot?	00:17
lcuk	a mo	00:18
javispedro	rotation is not done using xrandr	00:18
javispedro	but if you patched libMTF, you could introduce arbitrary degree-precision rotation support	00:18
javispedro	so yes, you could have 45º rotation	00:18
rm_work	:P	00:19
DocScrutinizer	rm_work: I always though xrandr was all about that, yes	00:19
rm_work	libMTF is what it uses?	00:19
javispedro	(hopefully Qt components either follow the same MTF logic by copy'n'paste or link with MTF)	00:19
lcuk	rm_work, http://liqbase.net/20110717_001.jpg	00:20
lcuk	crap, i meant http://liqbase.net/20110718_002.jpg	00:20
javispedro	lcuk: what a big n8! ;)	00:20
rm_work	lol was about to ask	00:20
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: smebody should push to make sure this is going to happen	00:20
rm_work	lcuk: ok so, what am I looking at here	00:21
lcuk	the first or the second pic? :)	00:21
rm_work	second	00:21
rm_work	lol	00:21
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: I already pushed enough when I called for xrandr rotation, I'm now in complacent mode.	00:21
lcuk	rm_work, that is the brightness controller on the n8, thats all	00:22
javispedro	it works. enough for me. now keep it stable for a few versions so that I can code SDL against that "rotation way".	00:22
rm_work	lcuk: right but how does it work...	00:22
lcuk	its just a slider with some info graphic to help	00:22
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rm_work	lcuk: ah ok, i thought it might be more complicated than that	00:22
rm_work	it was not immediately apparent	00:22
lcuk	don't overthink, its symbian :P	00:22
rm_work	thought maybe you had to pick a circle or something	00:22
rm_work	lol	00:22
rm_work	seems like it is just taking extra space for the heck of it	00:22
rm_work	i mean, i could include something like just the bottom strip (black to white) for reference	00:23
rm_work	but it'd probably look a bit out of place	00:23
rm_work	let me look at the widgets i can use again	00:23
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: is there a specific ticket against QtM or QML or whatever that needs to get opened? I have no overview about which level of system does/provides/fails-on what wrt orientation	00:24
lcuk	i have to say, tracy is wanting this n8, it is a well built phone o_O	00:24
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: you might want to open a feature request for providing a way to lock an orientation externally in a MTF app.	00:25
DocScrutinizer	seems like xrandr, if implemented, would provide user-screen-orientation, but as it's not it's up to anybody's guess how to determine what's the system's logical orientation now	00:26
javispedro	xrandr will NOT be implemented	00:26
javispedro	I pushed it neraly half a year ago.	00:26
javispedro	even arjan agreed with me.	00:26
Venemo	meh.	00:27
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: I might have helped if only I knew about it	00:27
Venemo	I thought Maemo 5 used XRandR	00:27
DocScrutinizer	helped on pushing	00:27
javispedro	Venemo: yes, Harmattan doesn't.	00:27
DocScrutinizer	but probably just meh	00:27
Venemo	meh indeed.	00:27
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: when the _kernel guy_ agrees with me and they don't implement it, well..	00:27
javispedro	to give them a break, I understand that the rotation animation with xrandr is... hard.	00:28
* DocScrutinizer turns away, deeply depressed		00:28
xerxes2	have a problem with raw qml, it shows a grey bar at the bottom	00:28
xerxes2	anyone else seen that?	00:28
xerxes2	fullscreen works fine though	00:29
* DocScrutinizer leaving room, mumbling "F*.-# animation, better do nothing than a simple thing?"		00:29
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: still, a hook in MTF for an external orientation lock (gconf key, etc.) is probably a trivial feature request	00:29
javispedro	and if we can the major toolkits to agree on such a key	00:30
javispedro	it would be pretty decent.	00:30
DocScrutinizer	yes	00:30
javispedro	otherwise, you can still probably lock orientation if you lie to MTF apps about:	00:31
javispedro	the accelerometer and the keyboard open/closed state	00:31
javispedro	and the status of tv out	00:31
DocScrutinizer	yeah super!!! my spirit level will be as amused about that as your AR (oops was that SpeedEvil 's AR?)	00:31
javispedro	which are the inputs to their orientation detection algorithm	00:31
xerxes2	so raw qml is locked to landcape always?	00:31
javispedro	xerxes2: as is raw qwidgets.	00:32
rm_work	wait, is there TV-out on this too?	00:32
xerxes2	i see thanks	00:32
javispedro	rm_work: via headphone plug, N900-style.	00:32
rm_work	do I just need to use N900 cable for it?	00:32
DocScrutinizer	bbl, need a break	00:32
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rm_work	k	00:32
rm_work	cool	00:32
DocScrutinizer	tested it, same quality as N900 basically	00:32
DocScrutinizer	cheers	00:33
javispedro	cya DocScrutinizer	00:33
rm_work	oh hey while i'm here, someone tell me how i should be taking care of the battery in this think	00:33
rm_work	*thing	00:33
* rm_work waves at DocScrutinizer		00:33
rm_work	should I be trying to keep it charged constantly (i'm at work or at home with a computer 90% of the day) so i could just leave it plugged in most of the time	00:33
rm_work	is that better for the battery than letting it drain every single day and plugging it in at night? or is it irrelevant	00:34
DocScrutinizer	yes	00:34
DocScrutinizer	better	00:34
rm_work	so keep it as fully charged as possible	00:34
rm_work	?	00:34
DocScrutinizer	bme is rather "sane" (for whatever metrics of sane) on N950	00:35
rm_work	k	00:35
DocScrutinizer	keep it "charging"	00:35
rm_work	k	00:35
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: found one of the meego.com ML threads about rotation: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-November/480021.html	00:36
javispedro	November 2010, more than half a year :)	00:36
javispedro	have to go, cya	00:42
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer, http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-November/480038.html	01:17
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer, MeeGo 1.3 will swap to wayland anyway, so they will have a good excuse why they can do such nonsense.	01:19
DocScrutinizer51	well, if everyting else fails, then just let's lennart and introduce the orientation daemon. API is dbus, apps will ask about orientation there and everything else the app devels don't need to care about. pusblish this NOW, and hype it on the fora and ML, and in wiki. ship an example app using it	01:20
Venemo	LoL	01:20
MohammadAG	Venemo, I wonder how MeeGo 1.3 and Harmattan will work together	01:20
Venemo	MohammadAG, in no way	01:20
Venemo	MohammadAG, if Nokia engineers come to their senses, then Harmattan+1 might be based on meego.com MeeGo...	01:21
DocScrutinizer51	Venemo: just that there are no more Nokia engineers to do harmattan+1	01:26
Venemo	there will be	01:26
Venemo	a "disruptive" (or whatever) device	01:26
Venemo	:D	01:26
DocScrutinizer51	indeed it is	01:26
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DocScrutinizer51	somebody introduced the FOSS idea to Nokia and persuaded them to try it. 770, N800,810, N900 and Nokia started to hate it. N9 and they buried it for good	01:29
Venemo	but I don't understand why.	01:30
Venemo	they could have dominated the entire market if they got it right	01:31
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DocScrutinizer51	now Nokia is back to "the serious business" - with winP7	01:31
Venemo	eh	01:31
Venemo	their attitude is the same. the managers are nuts, and they don't care about their customers	01:31
Venemo	I only feel sorry for their employees who are trying to make something out of all of that	01:32
DocScrutinizer51	yup	01:32
DocScrutinizer51	it probably sucks being a Nokia employee these days	01:33
ieatlint	you're overthinking it	01:36
ieatlint	nokia has/had a LOT more symbian guys than maemo guys	01:36
Venemo	indeed	01:36
Venemo	but they didn't manage to get Symbian right either	01:37
ieatlint	telling all of the symbian guys that this new thing called maemo is going to usurp you makes them fight back	01:37
ieatlint	they did, and everyone lost	01:37
Venemo	it's always the small details and the idiotic management decisions that ruin their stuff	01:37
SpeedEvil	The silly part is that they probably had plenty manpower to do both.	01:44
SpeedEvil	maemo/symbian	01:44
SpeedEvil	http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOK	01:45
SpeedEvil	eeek	01:45
SpeedEvil	The peak in feb is around rumors of MSFT acquisition of nokia?	01:46
* SpeedEvil forgets.		01:46
Tronic	The stock has gone down steadily ever since Feb11.	01:46
Tronic	Feb11 = burning platform + WP7 announcement.	01:46
SpeedEvil	yeah - I know.	01:46
SpeedEvil	I think June was the detailed timescale for WP7	01:47
SpeedEvil	(end of 2011)	01:47
Tronic	It will keep going down until the board announces a strategy shift and Elop is fired.	01:47
GAN900	What a profoundly useless browser.	01:47
SpeedEvil	Tronic: Indeed.	01:47
SpeedEvil	I think selling nokia short is still a good plan.	01:48
Tronic	Unless some other company (Microsoft or some Chinese) makes a buy offer in attempt to overtake the company.	01:48
SpeedEvil	True	01:48
Tronic	Shorting might be a good idea still, yes, but I am not willing to risk my money on it either way.	01:48
SpeedEvil	The price is getting low enough that some of the big chinese makers might consider it worthwhile	01:49
Tronic	Especially the dumbphone segment (tech, factories, patents, marketing channels) should be interesting for the chinese.	01:50
SpeedEvil	yep.	01:50
Venemo	think about N900->N9(50)... there aren't THAT many things that they could have added to make us all buy it	01:51
Venemo	but they didn't, because the management is stupid	01:51
Tronic	(not to mention the Nokia brand, which still has value)	01:51
Venemo	Tronic ++	01:51
SpeedEvil	Venemo: ? - what do you mean - that the n950 is saleable?	01:51
Tronic	Microsoft on the other hand might be planning to buy the smartphone unit and start manufacturing Microsoft branded smartphones but that doesn't seem so likely anymore.	01:52
Venemo	SpeedEvil, I mean that they should have added some features (mostly minor details) to Harmattan that could have made us all buy the N9	01:53
Tronic	Well, I'm off to bed. I guess we'll see what the future brings, eventually.	01:53
Venemo	SpeedEvil, about not selling the N950, they made another mistake.	01:53
Tronic	My estimate is for N9 to become available Sep-Oct but since the release is nerfed, it is not going to be the big revolution it should be (I am talking iPhone 5 killer here).	01:54
SpeedEvil	Venemo: ah	01:54
SpeedEvil	Indeed - the 'right' way would be to go to maemo.org. Now - for everyone that's actually coded or ported an app - offer them a n950	01:55
SpeedEvil	As a start.	01:56
SpeedEvil	Then everyone with karma >500 should get one. :)	01:56
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DocScrutinizer	kill AEGIS!!!!!!!!!!!!	02:10
GeneralAntilles	Got a long way to go until this is usable day-to-day.	02:10
GeneralAntilles	Gotta love the SDK integration, though.	02:10
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DocScrutinizer	""nokia needs aegis and will keep it, as yoghurt sport and skype need it""	02:10
DocScrutinizer	you SEE where that is targeting at	02:11
DocScrutinizer	FOSS is useless, let's care about those companies that SELL stuff via OVI	02:11
DocScrutinizer	""what, there's mobile hotspot, an app that obsoletely yoghurt sport? Doesn't matter, as Yoghurt is a commercial player, and they generate money flow""	02:13
DocScrutinizer	s/obsoletely/obsoletes/	02:13
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: ""what, there's mobile hotspot, an app that obsoletes yoghurt sport? Doesn't matter, as Yoghurt is a commercial player, and they generate money flow""	02:13
DocScrutinizer	Nokia always dreamt of being like Apple (allegedly is), earning their money with the appstore rather than with doing what they really know about: BUILD FRIGGIN EXCELLENT HW and sell it	02:15
DocScrutinizer	OVI never took off - who's to blame? The FOSS nerds	02:16
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DocScrutinizer	Nokia doesn't want "us" as customers, they want the google sheep and iPhone fanboys, that shell out the money without thinking, and don't complain about cherry and signed bootloaders and aegis, and esp who do not mess around with downloading things from OVI for free despite the fact Nokia placed a "lock" into apt. That's not how Nokia is used to do business, we are only valuable as coding monkeys	02:23
DocScrutinizer	and N900 showed we aren't controllable	02:24
DocScrutinizer	they planned to control us via aegis, but finally Nokia switched targets and now it's big business again, read "commercial aka winP7 aka a working ecosystem where people are used to buy what you offer to them"	02:26
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, well, they have more numbers and more money, sadly.	02:26
DocScrutinizer	that's all what counts, when it comes to shareholder value	02:27
DocScrutinizer	there's no obligation and no liability for Nokia to furhter support that FOSS approach	02:28
DocScrutinizer	and it didn't pay back	02:28
DocScrutinizer	so it's binned now	02:28
DocScrutinizer	I attributed M6 the final nail to maemo's coffin, and well, it is	02:30
DocScrutinizer	if you love(d) maemo, stay with maemo, stay with M5	02:32
DocScrutinizer	meego pretty obviously has no future at Nokia	02:32
DocScrutinizer	there'll be no Nokia supperted linux based OS for phones better than fremantle any time soon	02:34
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GeneralAntilles	Everyone judge fiferboy's FBReader! http://andrew.olmsted.ca/harmattan/packages/	02:59
SpeedEvil	Oh - neat - for harmattan!	03:00
DocScrutinizer	help me out, what's FBReader?	03:00
SpeedEvil	books	03:01
DocScrutinizer	aah	03:01
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, only the greatest thing in the world.	03:01
DocScrutinizer	explains why I didn't know	03:01
DocScrutinizer	a real BUCH is waaaay greater than any FBReader	03:02
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: If you believe that way, I have a slowly expanding amazon store.	03:02
SpeedEvil	I have maybe 4000 books that I'm listing on amazon	03:02
DocScrutinizer	don't get me wrong, there are benefits from ^F in pdf	03:02
SpeedEvil	PDF is the most broken and useless format for fiction.	03:02
SpeedEvil	http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/shops/storefront/index.html?ie=UTF8&marketplaceID=A1F83G8C2ARO7P&sellerID=A3HDMJ3NALRQ5G - random books and stuff	03:03
DocScrutinizer	but I'd not want to read any belletristic in my holiday on a N9??	03:03
SpeedEvil	Physical books get scuffed and mislaid and ...	03:04
DocScrutinizer	sure	03:04
DocScrutinizer	maybe I'd actually like a 9" e-ink	03:04
SpeedEvil	Also I have a nice little preprocessor that adds backlinks to the first occurrance of a char in a PDF	03:04
SpeedEvil	And in dim light, setting the n900 to dim works way better than trying to screw around with gettign the lighting right for e-ink	03:05
GeneralAntilles	Fiction and diagram-free non-fiction is what you read on a phone.	03:06
SpeedEvil	yes	03:06
DocScrutinizer	reading a book on N900 resembles the guy at McDonals that is visually impaired and reads the newspaper char by char with a magnifying glass, each day for ~3h	03:06
SpeedEvil	For aything but the simplest diagrams, it's painful.	03:07
SpeedEvil	I have read perhaps 500M of fiction on my n900	03:07
GeneralAntilles	I think I'm over 500 books since the 770.	03:08
DocScrutinizer	or, maybe even better, it feels to me like listening to music with a hearing aid	03:08
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, OK, we get it. It doesn't suit you. :P	03:08
DocScrutinizer	I wouldn't want to watch movies on N900, and I wouldn't want to read books on N900. For anything else than mere informational purposes	03:09
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DocScrutinizer	well, it's useless to debate it :-D	03:09
DocScrutinizer	so yeah, for those who enjoy reading books on a 4" screen, probably FBReader is the best thing since sliced bread. I frankly admit I got no clue about it	03:11
SpeedEvil	I find it useful - at 13 lines/screen or so - with the button to change page	03:11
DocScrutinizer	landscape or portrait? :-D	03:12
DocScrutinizer51	hmm, might actually be bearable	03:14
kimju	finally managed to get an updated terminal installed on the device. took only about 6 hours, mostly thanks to aegis.	03:15
DocScrutinizer51	we got little booklets called "Reklam" here, yellow and size ~DIN A 6 or smaller. a 4" screen in fullscreen portrait is like half a page	03:16
SpeedEvil	landscape	03:17
SpeedEvil	I can read 13 lines in ~8 seconds - less text on screen is annoying	03:19
DocScrutinizer51	kimju: \o/ isn't aegis great?	03:19
kimju	what finally worked was: 1) uninstall old version with dpkg -P --force-all 2) remove .desktop file left in /usr/share/applications/installer-extra/ 3) uninstall via application manager 4) reboot, 5) reinstall new package.	03:19
DocScrutinizer51	kimju: now for the nice part: what was that terminal you installed?	03:20
kimju	meego-terminal from gitorious, compiled locally in scratchbox.	03:20
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, usually between 28-32 lines in portrait here.	03:20
kimju	now that I got it running I can start making changes to it..	03:20
DocScrutinizer51	kimju: and is it better than stock?	03:21
kimju	it's the same thing.	03:21
DocScrutinizer51	aah	03:21
kimju	but I want to make it better.	03:21
DocScrutinizer51	now you gonna make it better	03:21
DocScrutinizer51	yeah got it	03:22
GeneralAntilles	SIM's going back in the N900 tomorrow.	03:23
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: how long?	03:24
DocScrutinizer	here <24h	03:24
GeneralAntilles	Um, since about 11:30 this morning.	03:25
DocScrutinizer	:-D	03:25
GeneralAntilles	Not even 10 hours	03:26
GeneralAntilles	Well, 3 biggest things I use the N900 for day-to-day	03:26
DocScrutinizer	I even forgot already if I managed to check SSC and USSD	03:26
GeneralAntilles	GTalk/AIM, IRC, FBReader.	03:26
kimju	multisims are nice, I can have same phone number in two (or actually in five) phones simultaneously.	03:27
DocScrutinizer	yeah, alas you can't get multisim here for prepaid	03:27
DocScrutinizer	but my sim is so old I could even clone it ;-D	03:28
kimju	not here either. and no more than two sims on any new contract. legacy contracts and services are nice to have sometimes.	03:29
DocScrutinizer	legacy SIM hw has its nice aspects too	03:30
GAN900	Is Firefox working?	03:30
SpeedEvil	I'd love it if I could do true software SIM	03:31
DocScrutinizer	it's no problem at all	03:31
DocScrutinizer	just the phone hw isn't built do support it ootb	03:31
SpeedEvil	Not quite.	03:31
SpeedEvil	you can't normally get the secrets	03:31
SpeedEvil	modulo hacks that I understand you can do with openbts	03:32
DocScrutinizer	yes, unless you got a 11y-o SIM, like mine :-)	03:32
DocScrutinizer	(openbts) umm, I don't think you can get the secrets this way either	03:33
DocScrutinizer	with the old SIMs some smart hackers found ways to "read out" the secret cryptokey by observing response time to certain challenge values, observing the power consumption and noise, or both	03:35
DocScrutinizer	there's nothing you could do via OTA API that you couldn't do with the same SIM in a cardreader	03:36
DocScrutinizer	new SIMs are hardened against such attacks	03:37
GAN900	So, um, filetypes the browser doesn't recognize it just says "No." to?	03:41
GAN900	WTF?	03:41
GAN900	Is this a WAP browser?	03:41
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: ??	03:42
GAN900	Trying to download a Baen free lib selection.	03:43
GAN900	Refuses to download any of the formats.	03:43
GAN900	How do I paste the clipboard in term. . . .	03:43
DocScrutinizer	not at all	03:44
GAN900	Sigh	03:44
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DocScrutinizer	harm doen't really support a system wide c&p	03:44
SpeedEvil	GAN900: it can read html and epub just fine	03:44
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: I vaguely remember that it's not possible to simply request the secrets. When I looked at it it seemed to be possible to request the SIM authenticate with a weak encryption, which you can crack.	03:45
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: (c&p) that's btw been the moment when my SIM moved back to N900	03:45
GAN900	Type application/epub+zip not supported.	03:45
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: yes	03:46
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: but you never can request the secrets, it's a challenge/response scheme afaik	03:46
SpeedEvil	yes	03:46
SpeedEvil	I mean you request the challenge/response with an insecure encryption	03:47
GAN900	Useless thing is only usable for app testing right now.	03:47
SpeedEvil	http://www.webscription.net/SendFile.aspx?SKU=0671578499&ProductID=379&format=E	03:47
DocScrutinizer	sure, that's how you eavesdrop on a phone - doesn't help to clone your own SIM though	03:47
SpeedEvil	Is a link to '1632'	03:47
SpeedEvil	in epub format	03:48
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: yup	03:48
SpeedEvil	I'd need to reread it - as I understood it there were a choice of challenge/response protocols that authenticate against teh same secret keys.	03:48
SpeedEvil	Some of the algorithms were crackable	03:49
DocScrutinizer	or make it a member of a heterogeneous beowulf :-)	03:49
GAN900	SpeedEvil, don't feel like typing it into the device.	03:49
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	03:51
SpeedEvil	www.mauve.plus.com/b.epub also	03:51
DocScrutinizer	Not found - 404	03:53
DocScrutinizer	URL requested (/b.epub) not found	03:53
SpeedEvil	umm	03:53
SpeedEvil	Should be there now - oops	03:55
GAN900	OK sim's going back.	04:04
GAN900	Whew. That's better.	04:09
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rm_code	hrm, finally home and with SDK installed properly :P	04:29
rm_code	so.... is setting up scratchbox with xephyr and setting up QtCreator two completely different ways to develop?	04:43
DocScrutinizer	aiui yes	04:43
rm_code	lol ok...	04:44
DocScrutinizer	but don't trust a word I say about development and SDK	04:44
rm_code	lol k	04:44
DocScrutinizer	I know there's SB and MADDE	04:44
rm_code	well i'm setting up both and shall see which one i will go with	04:44
rm_code	i have very little Qt experience, was mostly a gnome guy before	04:44
rm_code	so this'll be fun! :P	04:44
rm_code	their widget library seems nice	04:45
DocScrutinizer	probably QtCrreator is in line with the madde thing	04:45
DocScrutinizer	Qt seems fun, yes. I did some Qt development like 5 years ago	04:45
ieatlint	yeah, the qt sdk has a harmattan toolchain...	04:46
GeneralAntilles	Qt SDK seems pretty reasonable.	04:47
ieatlint	i don't know if it supports any of the lower api calls, but it has qt and (i believe) mtf anyway	04:47
ieatlint	easier to setup than scratchbox, that's for sure	04:47
antman8969	so just got my n950 and I recall people in here talking about aegis problems.... was there a wiki somewhere I can read?	04:49
rm_code	ah man	05:08
rm_code	just deployed the hello world app	05:08
rm_code	this is SO easy with a device and QtCreator	05:08
rm_code	damn	05:08
rm_code	this looks like a decently nice IDE too	05:09
rm_code	we'll see what i think after actually trying to build something, but first impression is great	05:09
ieatlint	it's not perfect, but it has some convienient features	05:13
GAN900	Working Designer would be nice.	05:17
rm_code	umm so how can I make a statusbar applet <_<	05:22
rm_code	or add to the statusbar	05:22
rm_code	why is it that i'm always trying to do something "outside the norm" >_>	05:23
ieatlint	you need to use the harmattan api for that	05:25
rm_code	oooook...	05:26
rm_code	this?	05:26
rm_code	http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/api_refs/	05:26
ieatlint	yeah	05:26
rm_code	ooook....	05:27
rm_code	i looked at that FIRST, didn't see anything, which is what led me to QtCreator :P	05:27
rm_code	eh, i'll worry about it later	05:27
ieatlint	yeah, i don't know if those apis are in the harmattan toolchain for the qtsdk	05:28
ieatlint	look at the application framework	05:28
ieatlint	i think libduicontrolpanel is where you want to look	05:29
ieatlint	but i'm not too sure	05:29
rm_code	hrmrm	05:36
rm_code	ok wtf i take it back	05:38
rm_code	this IDE is horrible	05:38
rm_code	once you actually get a project set up it is completely non-intuitive	05:38
ieatlint	oh, no, the correct place for adding things to the toolbar is via MAction (derived from QAction)	05:39
rm_code	where's that	05:42
ieatlint	under libmeegotouch... urls seems janky for this	05:42
ieatlint	and i'm still not 100% sure :)	05:42
ieatlint	http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/api_refs/showdoc.php?pkn=libmeegotouch&wb=daily-docs&url=Li94bWwvZGFpbHktZG9jcy9saWJtZWVnb3RvdWNo	05:43
ieatlint	it's unclear, and i don't have time to look further now, but am also insterested in the answer	05:43
rm_code	k	05:44
rm_code	well, thanks	05:44
ieatlint	i am entertained that there is a libduicontrolpanel though	05:45
rm_code	i wonder if i can find the source for the volume control applet	05:48
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rm_code	YES	05:57
rm_code	got the source	05:57
rm_code	win	05:57
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rm_code	blah compiling these demos on EITHER api, and I get different include errors on each	06:21
rm_code	it's like it needs both APIs or something	06:21
ieatlint	both apis?	06:25
ieatlint	the scratchbox sdk will have everything the qt sdk has	06:26
rm_code	hrm	06:26
rm_code	i mean, in QtCreator it lets you use two APIs	06:26
rm_code	Harmattan Platform API, and Meego 1.2 Harmattan API	06:27
rm_code	when i use the second it complains about not being able to load "meegotouch_defines" and then fails to find MLibrary	06:27
rm_code	if i build on the first, it complains about not being able to find MStatusIndicatorMenuExtensionInterface	06:28
ieatlint	ah, yeah, it does have two toolchains there, no clue why	06:28
ieatlint	seems to default for "Platform for Harmattan" for me	06:30
rm_code	ok	06:30
rm_code	then i'll need to solve	06:30
rm_code	MStatusIndicatorMenuExtensionInterface	06:30
rm_code	ah the joys of learning a new API	06:32
rm_code	so yeah	06:38
rm_code	does the QtCreator gui designer just not work? i guess that's what GAN was referencing it earlier	06:38
rm_code	on the plus side, the widget rotation is super easy	06:54
antman8969	lol its default I think	07:04
rm_code	hrm, what Qt calls a "spinner" is exactly not what 99% of the rest of the world calls a spinner	07:04
antman8969	and yea the designer is buggy, but I think it leads to bad habbits anyway	07:04
antman8969	is it the loading spinner?	07:04
rm_code	yes	07:05
antman8969	i guess i'm that .01% :(	07:05
rm_code	normally a spinner is a numeric box with +/- buttons	07:05
antman8969	oooh, you're right actually	07:05
antman8969	it was called "busy indicator" in the git repo	07:05
antman8969	they change stuff for no reason	07:05
rm_code	yeah <_<	07:05
rm_code	annoying	07:05
rm_code	I want a REAL spinner	07:05
rm_code	and... in Qt it is also called a spinner	07:06
rm_code	but it doesn't appear to exist in the Qt Designer	07:06
rm_code	of course, the "spinner" as they define it also doesn't show uo	07:07
rm_code	*up	07:07
rm_code	wtf this is missing 90% of the GUI components	07:07
antman8969	keep it simple ;)	07:08
antman8969	BUTTONS ONLY	07:08
rm_code	>_<	07:08
rm_code	for the app i'm doing, I need a spinner	07:08
rm_code	I guess i just need to make a label that is bound to an integer and make buttons that increment/decrement	07:09
rm_code	seems overly complicated	07:09
rm_code	when all I want is a spinner	07:09
rm_code	and i feel like Qt has a really nice looking one	07:09
antman8969	making you're own anything is pretty easy with qml. The problem is that the qt-components project will porbably make one eventually then you'll be pressured to go back and change yours	07:10
rm_code	well	07:10
rm_code	http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/declarative-ui-components-spinner.html	07:10
rm_code	so	07:11
rm_code	how do I actually make one	07:11
antman8969	the source for that spinner is in the "Spinner.qml" file	07:11
antman8969	someone did the work for you	07:11
rm_code	wait	07:11
antman8969	you should look into PathViews tho, it's the shit	07:11
rm_code	this isn't a default part of the UI?	07:12
rm_code	i have to download it or something?	07:12
antman8969	lol there isn't really a "default" part. The dfault is just shapes pretty much	07:12
antman8969	if you make you app available for maemo5 users, you can't use any of the components	07:12
antman8969	and maemo doesn't have qtquick 1.1	07:12
antman8969	so it's not really THAT cross platform anymore	07:13
rm_code	i thought Qt had its own widgets	07:13
antman8969	Yea you're thinking desktop widgets	07:13
rm_code	it doesn't actually, it just has shape making and people have to define the widgets?	07:13
rm_code	no i'm thinking GTK+ widgets	07:13
rm_code	like	07:13
rm_code	Spinner	07:13
rm_code	<_<	07:13
antman8969	Yea, the full Qt version does, but not QML	07:13
antman8969	but we need to use QML for harmattan	07:14
rm_code	soooo	07:14
rm_code	basically what you're saying is, this is way less useful and simple than i thought it would be to switch to Qt	07:14
rm_code	i was looking forward to having the full library of Qt widgets available	07:15
rm_code	:(	07:15
antman8969	lol well, it's "different" than you thought, still easy tho	07:15
antman8969	Qt is C++, which we are using very little of in the UI now	07:15
antman8969	because it's all done in QML	07:15
rm_code	ok, so since we don't have QtQuick, i still can't use this?	07:15
antman8969	with the meego touch UI lib "com.meego"	07:15
rm_code	so i have to make my own still?	07:15
antman8969	depends. Spinner? probably. But someone made it for you already	07:15
antman8969	so thats off the list	07:16
antman8969	buttons? thats in com.meego 1.0	07:16
rm_code	but it uses QtQuick	07:16
rm_code	so i can't use it?	07:16
antman8969	you can, QtQuick IS QML lol	07:16
rm_code	you said we didn't have QtQuick available	07:16
rm_code	<antman8969> and maemo doesn't have qtquick 1.1	07:16
antman8969	we done have qtquick 1.1 on maemo n900	07:16
antman8969	the old phone	07:16
rm_code	oh	07:16
rm_code	fremantle doesn't have it	07:16
antman8969	so it poses backwards compatibility problems	07:16
antman8969	BUT	07:16
antman8969	they have 1.0	07:16
rm_code	harmattan is still maemo :P	07:16
antman8969	lol true	07:17
antman8969	basically what I was trying to say was, if you don't build your app with the intention of it working for n900, it won't	07:17
rm_code	so i just download this QML file and shove it somewhere and then load it?	07:17
antman8969	yep, the qml/ directory	07:17
antman8969	it's like pythin in that respect	07:17
antman8969	if it was in a sub dir, then you import it with : import "dir"	07:18
antman8969	this is the page you want http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativeelements.html	07:18
antman8969	it's the qml "api"	07:18
antman8969	ish	07:18
antman8969	if you're confused, don't worry. QML is like, a year old	07:18
rm_code	>_>	07:19
rm_code	i was expecting Qt	07:19
rm_code	i guess I was misinformed :P	07:19
antman8969	lol it's the future of Qt	07:20
rm_code	Alright, defined this QML thing	07:20
antman8969	QML is the language, Qt markup language	07:20
rm_code	trying to actually put one in my project now	07:20
antman8969	you made a harmattan project right?	07:20
rm_code	but... the old Qt actually HAD a spinner as a base element	07:20
rm_code	yes	07:20
antman8969	but its dead now! dead!	07:20
antman8969	anyway	07:20
antman8969	you have a qml dir	07:20
rm_code	yeah	07:20
antman8969	thats where all the qml goes	07:20
rm_code	i put the file there	07:20
rm_code	and included it in my project	07:21
antman8969	yep, which means you need to add it to your project file under "Otherfiles"	07:21
antman8969	and add it to your resource file	07:21
antman8969	this is all harmattan specific btw	07:21
rm_code	yeah	07:21
rm_code	i mean	07:21
rm_code	i already added it	07:21
rm_code	it's in my project	07:21
antman8969	if you want to use it, then you use it like any other QML element: Spinner {}	07:21
antman8969	it's basically CSS	07:22
antman8969	like how you would use a Rectangle {}	07:22
antman8969	actually	07:22
antman8969	the main.qml file in the spinner project you found online would be agood reference	07:22
antman8969	http://apidocs.meego.com/1.2/ is the api for the harmattan / meego qml components	07:22
rm_code	ah	07:22
rm_code	i am looking for it in the items section	07:23
rm_code	i wanted to drag it in	07:23
antman8969	ooh the designer view. I'd stay away from it	07:23
rm_code	only have used the designer so far for UI layout	07:23
rm_code	ah >_>	07:23
rm_code	ok then	07:23
antman8969	take a look at the QML, it's pretty simple	07:23
rm_code	so much for that	07:23
rm_code	was really looking forward to having a graphical UI designer	07:23
antman8969	I mean, it does work sometimes, but not like it should yet. It's still pretty new	07:24
antman8969	my work is usually worse if I rely on it	07:24
rm_code	oooo ok	07:24
rm_code	i can define them	07:24
rm_code	empty	07:24
rm_code	and then edit their properties in the designer	07:24
antman8969	thats an option	07:24
antman8969	at that point tho, might as well stay in the qml lol	07:24
antman8969	watever works for you	07:24
rm_code	well i don't know the options yet :P	07:25
antman8969	lol yea, I always have the api opened up	07:25
rm_code	well	07:26
rm_code	hrm	07:26
antman8969	most of them have the same options tho, when it gets to lists and stuff is when you need help	07:26
rm_code	they don't show up... my app is just blank :(	07:26
antman8969	well, help remembering	07:26
antman8969	The spinner?	07:26
rm_code	yep	07:26
antman8969	did you take out the label and button?	07:26
antman8969	you should look at teh main.qml file in the online version, a spinner probably needs a model	07:26
antman8969	which would be ListModel{}	07:27
rm_code	ah	07:28
rm_code	still expecting it to work like GTK or old Qt	07:28
rm_code	just want to define it and it shows up T_T	07:28
rm_code	a spinner used to be a one-liner	07:28
antman8969	tade offs, there are other one liners	07:28
antman8969	the anchoring system is worth it imo	07:28
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rm_code	hrm	07:34
rm_code	fighting with the anchors right now	07:34
rm_code	i want something to be "top middle" and it's more like... not	07:34
antman8969	top middle of.. the page element?	07:35
rm_code	yeah	07:36
rm_code	and the other needs to be bottom middle	07:36
antman8969	well assuming its a child	07:37
antman8969	you need to add these anchor lines	07:37
antman8969	anchors.horizontalCenter: parent.horizontalCenter	07:37
antman8969	and anchors.top: parnent.top	07:37
antman8969	and play around with anchors.topMargin to get the spacing right	07:37
rm_code	yeah i did exactly that	07:38
antman8969	assuming they actually have sizes too, then you have to play around not sure	07:39
rm_code	hrm	07:41
rm_code	ok this seems not too bad	07:41
rm_code	if it would go where i tell it to, but i'm going to assume it's because i'm a nub at this point	07:42
antman8969	lol most likely	07:42
antman8969	one thing that is annoying is needing to add the qml files to the resource file	07:43
antman8969	that wasn't the case in.... any other Qt	07:43
rm_code	can it not just be automatic?	07:44
rm_code	include * from folder qml/ ?	07:44
rm_code	apparently not	07:44
rm_code	so, what do I use as the default container	07:45
rm_code	not a Row, apparently, it does weird things	07:45
antman8969	rows will always lay things out ina row	07:45
antman8969	but you're thinking like desktop qt	07:45
antman8969	you really don't need a container	07:45
antman8969	if you want an image in the top middle	07:45
antman8969	just make an image and anchor it	07:45
antman8969	if you want 5 in a row, throw then in a Row{} and anchor the Row to the top	07:46
rm_code	k	07:46
rm_code	so, lock in portrait does nothing?	07:55
rm_code	>_>	07:55
* Stskeeps yawns		07:55
antman8969	how are you doing it?	07:58
rm_code	lockInPortrait: true	07:59
antman8969	oh lol, guess not then	08:00
antman8969	theres probably a way to do it in main.cpp	08:00
antman8969	thats how it was done in other version at least	08:00
rm_code	hrm k	08:02
rm_code	and for some reason the thing i bound to the top isn't showing up >_>	08:03
rm_code	bottom one is totally working tho :P	08:03
rm_code	ah well, i'll have to figure out the cool stuff tomorrow	08:10
rm_code	like, how to bind a label's text to a variable i defined in the cpp	08:10
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antman8969	ooh, I guess we're including the qml files in the resources file so they get compoiled into the executable	08:33
antman8969	hmm... helping people stay closed source?	08:33
Stskeeps	well, they're still raw qml in there	08:33
antman8969	having to debug is definetly a deterrant at least...	08:34
antman8969	as opposed to plain text	08:34
antman8969	file*	08:34
antman8969	other than that, the only other side effect is I can't edit the source when I"m on a bus...	08:34
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Termana	morning	09:15
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* Termana_ sighs.		09:17
Termana_	DDoSed BNC makes me a sad panda	09:17
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antman8969	anyone know of any screen protectors for the n950?	10:18
antman8969	feeling very nervous	10:18
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alterego	zehjotkah seemed to know of some, was asking for requests on twitter yesterday.	10:31
antman8969	I just bought 2 droid matte protectors for 5 bucks http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Motorola-Droid-A855-Matte-Screen-Protector-Pack-of-2/5197454/product.html?cid=123620	10:32
antman8969	should be fine, and I like the matte feel	10:33
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Summeli	does anyone here know how to disable swipe in fullscreen game with N950?	10:33
kimju	I'm waiting for a while if zagg is going to release on invisible shield for n9/n950.. if not, I still have few n800 and other bigger shields that could be modified to fit..	10:35
ieatlint	zagg sells just sheets to cut yourself...	10:35
ieatlint	finding a laser cutter also is often pretty easy, but getting the dimensions isn't	10:36
harbaum	thp: ping	10:37
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Kaadlajk	Summeli: there will be QML API for that at somepoint, now there is just a workaround	10:40
Kaadlajk	I just cant find where it was documented	10:40
Summeli	Kaadlajk: what's the workaround? :)	10:41
Summeli	I'm still with QWidgets, so that workaroudn would be nice ;-)	10:41
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Kaadlajk	Summeli: this is how I saw it done for QDeclarativeView http://pastie.org/private/wdvaznqu9lpubnjpxnnhvq	10:56
Kaadlajk	could not find where that was documented	10:56
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Summeli	Kaadlajk: thanks, I'll try it :)	11:00
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tonberry__	anyone working on the harmattan browser?	11:04
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sebas	Hey :)	11:08
sebas	I'm playing around with the n950, trying to get a package installed, but I'm struggling with the device's security	11:08
sebas	Aegis rejecting qt-components_1.0~git20110712-1_i386.deb: package 'qt-components' already installed from 'com.nokia.maemo' -- not replacing it from unknown origin	11:08
sebas	docs, as far as I could find suggest that I should be able to just install something on the device	11:08
frals	not sure you can replace system packages that easily	11:08
frals	also, why are you installing i386 on arm?	11:09
Mek	you can if you first remove it	11:09
Mek	but yeah, wrong architecture is a bigger problem :)	11:09
sebas	ah, crap ... picked the wrong binary	11:09
Mek	but still you can't upgrade it to your own package, you first need to de-install the com.nokia.maemo provided one	11:09
Mek	(which will also remove some meta-package that will break system updates, but then system updated are not supported anyway afaik)	11:09
sebas	ok, uninstalling it (and subsequently picking the armel package ;)) seems to help	11:11
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Venemo_N950	morning	11:29
* andre__ wonders what people use for chatting on N9/50		11:30
Stskeeps	ssh	11:31
Stskeeps	:P	11:31
dm8tbr	Stskeeps++	11:32
ieatlint	sms	11:33
ieatlint	there are no chat plugins for the n950 currently	11:33
* dm8tbr would love to see XMPP for harmattan as an account protocol		11:34
ieatlint	at an unspecified future date, there will be in a similar fashion to the n900	11:34
jussi	I dont have one yet, but Quassel2go of course for IRC	11:34
dm8tbr	I thought SIP had also messaging? aka SIMPLE	11:35
ieatlint	yes, theoretically, and that is already enabled on the n950	11:35
Venemo_N950	Freenode WebChat atm	11:35
ieatlint	but which chat system uses it?	11:35
dm8tbr	M$ OCS uses something like SIP. I wanted to check if I can make them talk	11:35
Venemo_N950	my home internet connection stopped working? but I'm an irc fan... so http://webchat.freenode.net	11:36
ieatlint	i suspect we will not see any additional n950 updates until mid-august :(	11:36
ieatlint	seems many many people at nokia are already on holiday	11:36
dm8tbr	I woudln't be so sure	11:36
jussi	ieatlint: finland goes on holiday in July...	11:37
ieatlint	that explains a lot :)	11:37
ieatlint	i kept thinking it was a little early	11:37
flux	in general I'd say finns have a 4 week summer holiday	11:37
Venemo_N950	hehh	11:37
Venemo_N950	good for them...	11:38
ieatlint	yeah, i get 3 weeks a year, and that includes days i take for sick-leave	11:38
ieatlint	lucky bastards	11:38
flux	well, there's also one week winter holiday	11:38
jussi	:D	11:39
dm8tbr	hrm no tun/tap on the device. no VPN :(	11:39
flux	dm8tbr, now that sucks	11:39
dm8tbr	who do we need to talk to to get an "advanced" kernel going for harmattan?	11:39
frals	vpn should be possible	11:40
dm8tbr	cd /lib/modules && find .\|grep tap \|wc -l	11:40
dm8tbr	0	11:40
dm8tbr	unless it's built in	11:41
dm8tbr	haven't checked that yet	11:41
frals	ive seen vpnc running so i would assume its not hard to do at least ;)	11:41
dm8tbr	hmm I see 'tun' related things in /sys but not tap	11:42
Venemo_N950	4 weeks holiday... no wonder they don't get any work done	11:42
flux	I guess there are other means of establishing the vpn tunnel	11:42
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flux	dm8tbr, tap might even be an 'older' technique compared to tun..	11:43
flux	I remember using tap eons ago	11:43
frals	dont get any work done? pft	11:43
TSCHAKeee	...._ANOTHER_ $(#@$(#@ channel?	11:43
* TSCHAKeee puts this next to the 47,000 other tabs		11:43
dm8tbr	flux: tun and tap are fundamentally different things	11:44
flux	dm8tbr, well, openvpn can use either one in any case?	11:44
dm8tbr	flux: one is for IP and one is for raw ethernet	11:44
flux	oh, I didn't know that tun is only for ip	11:44
Venemo_N950	hm	11:46
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Damion3	morning	11:54
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alterego	Soooo, huuungry ..	12:04
alterego	I should make something to eat,	12:04
* alterego wanders off.		12:05
lardman	harbaum: did you work out a method for the .pro file?	12:11
harbaum	Nope	12:11
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harbaum	Do we have qtmobility 1.1?	12:13
alterego	It's nice how well the N950 works even under direct sunlight	12:14
djszapi	Venemo_N950: why I think you cannot turn off the security is also that, this distribution and kernel, etc were supposed to target the user audience (aka. there will be not many customers buying N9 for hacking)	12:14
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alterego	I think someone should port screen. If we can't have multi window terminals :p	12:15
djszapi	alterego: should not be biggie to port.	12:16
djszapi	I would really like to have an IRC client.	12:17
Stskeeps	+1	12:17
djszapi	konversation port would be cool. :)	12:17
ieatlint	harbaum: we're on qtmobility 1.2	12:17
djszapi	alterego: I am packaging screen for you :)	12:17
alterego	yay :)	12:17
ieatlint	harbaum: check out http://projects.developer.nokia.com/qtinfo and http://tehinterweb.com/qtinfo-n950.html for my n950's output	12:18
Venemo_N950	djszapi, I understand	12:18
alterego	I was going to work on multiple window support for terminal at somepoint' when I get the time. Butscreen is good :)	12:18
harbaum	ieatlint: Si this is completely outdated already: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Implementing_orientation_change_animation_with_QML	12:19
djszapi	alterego: heh, the only hard dependency is pam.	12:19
harbaum	alterego: Who has a buttscreen?	12:19
ieatlint	hah, i posted the comment on that (obviously, i guess)	12:19
djszapi	I could not get it working yet. I also needed that for kdelibs.	12:19
ieatlint	that article was never correct	12:19
ieatlint	so outdated"	12:19
ieatlint	"is wrong	12:20
djszapi	alterego: test fails in qemu/scratchbox -> unhandled exception, segfault	12:20
djszapi	I could not turn the test cases off yet.	12:20
ieatlint	the method i detail in my comment is valid. it can be adapted more exclusively for qml by putting in a signal handler for a resize of the main rectangle/item of the qml screen	12:21
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alterego	djszapi: probably something wrong with qemu :/	12:23
djszapi	alterego: yeah :/ I have never found a package with test cases where it succeeded. Test always fails in qemu	12:23
djszapi	(which will probably not fail on the gadget, thus we can safely turn them off)	12:24
harbaum	ieatlint: So how does one do rotation in plain qml?	12:26
ieatlint	harbaum: well, you could do onWidthChanged: on the top level qml element	12:28
ieatlint	then if( width > height ) { <landscape modifications> } else { <portrait modifications> }	12:28
harbaum	ieatlint: But the width doesn't change. Nothing happens if i rotate the deivice	12:28
ieatlint	you may want to create a property to store the current orientation as well...	12:28
Damion3	you can run meego-terminal -n	12:28
ieatlint	if the phone reorients its UI, it will resize the application that is in the foreground	12:29
Damion3	I always do that as once I've sshed I find I need to check iwconfig regfularly due to the low power wifi	12:29
ieatlint	and in doing so, the width will change	12:29
harbaum	ieatlint: really, nothing happens if i rotate the phone. my app can handle aspect ratio changes pretty nicely, but that isn't happening	12:29
ieatlint	huh, then i question if the change is somehow not being detected	12:30
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ieatlint	am doing a test right now to confirm	12:32
harbaum	ieatlint: thanks	12:32
harbaum	or do i have to set some focus in the qml?	12:33
ieatlint	huh, i indeed can confirm that simply thowing a onWidthChanged: doesn't get triggered	12:33
Mek	I thought there was some magic in the Page (or PageWindow or something like that) component that handles orientation changes	12:34
harbaum	so what does cause plain qml apps to rotate?	12:34
Mek	(without a Page as parent, even a Sheet component won't have any support for orientation changes)	12:34
ieatlint	i do however find these signals: onOrientationChangeAboutToStart:, onOrientationChangeStarted:, onOrientationChangeFinished:	12:35
harbaum	Mek: So "plain qml" is also unsupported? Either use qt componentsn or be stuck in landscape?	12:36
ieatlint	i would use one of them.. i just tested and can confirm they work	12:36
Mek	harbaum: well, I assume you should be able to replicate whatever qt components do, but yeah, since all orientation changing happens client-side, you need to have some code in your app to actually do that	12:36
ieatlint	harbaum: in plain qml there should be some signal to indicate the change... i've always done it via QWidget and the event handler	12:36
ieatlint	but i'm confident there is a method	12:36
harbaum	and that code will interfere with other devices?	12:37
harbaum	wouldn't it be great if qt would work cross plattform?	12:38
Mek	well, that's the idea of qt components. If you use qt components (and only the "generic" api (that is not quite finished yet)), it should work on any platform that has qt components implementations	12:39
ieatlint	harbaum: haha	12:39
harbaum	Yeah, but this constant "don't use that anymore, it's deprecated" is really happening too often imho	12:40
harbaum	we had plain qt->mtf->qml->qt components in what? 6 months?	12:40
Mek	mtf was deprecated before it was released :P	12:40
harbaum	that doesn't make it better ...	12:40
ieatlint	mtf was deprecated, and then 6+ months later released	12:40
ieatlint	and qt5 deprecates more, and moves qwidgets to the sideline	12:41
cpscotti	hiemanshu, Finally!!! Ok, now.. stop cursing all of us and enjoy your toy! :)	12:52
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Damion3	oh great the flasher util from developer.nokia.com just starts out by wiping all data warning that you probably should have backed up 1st	13:01
Damion3	I wanted to just do a basic non user data firmware flash as it got itself in to a reboot loop	13:02
hiemanshu	cpscotti: hah	13:03
hiemanshu	:P	13:03
hiemanshu	cpscotti: I got on a computer after almost 3 days now :/	13:03
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cpscotti	hiemanshu, hehe! good way to deal with the anxiety	13:04
hiemanshu	cpscotti: nope, like I said, house moving and such	13:05
hiemanshu	about 30-ish people at home right now	13:05
cpscotti	hiemanshu, jeez.. not the ideal time&place to get proper "focused" hacking it seems.. lol.	13:09
hiemanshu	cpscotti: about 6 people asked me for the device already :/	13:09
cpscotti	hiemanshu, ughh.. and I bet they are complaining about the "little bits&bugs".. or even.. comparing it to an iphone :/	13:10
hiemanshu	nope, they haven't even touched it yet	13:10
cpscotti	hiemanshu, expect that..	13:11
hiemanshu	anyways, I am off	13:11
hiemanshu	gotta start dropping people off at the airport	13:11
cpscotti	ehhe.. ok.. see ya!	13:11
hiemanshu	cpscotti: btw my phone a trip through germany, UK, and then india :P	13:11
* hiemanshu is off		13:12
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kimju	any ideas why qmake is not working in scratchbox: http://pastebin.com/VxmF7ckR ?	13:21
cpscotti	kimju, weird isn't it? I'm using qmake myself inside sb and worket out of the box	13:23
kimju	it worked previously for me too. haven't even upgraded any package on this machine since.	13:23
cpscotti	works on HARMATTAN_X86 ?	13:24
kimju	oh, never mind, /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core restart fixed that	13:25
jussi	Is there some way I can get a working version of what is on the n9 in a simulator on my PC? (running kubuntu)	13:25
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cpscotti	kimju, great :D good to know that ... lol	13:27
cpscotti	jussi,no.. basically not. The best thing I saw so far was scratchbox but very few of the apps are there. (the swipe/ui behaviour is all there though)	13:28
jussi	cpscotti: hrr, thats frustrating. Hopefully one day soon we will get it.	13:29
cpscotti	jussi, well.. I don`t know if that`s the'll ever happen (in terms of all the apps & stuff).	13:31
cpscotti	jussi, but in terms of development environment, it`s pretty good	13:31
harbaum	Where is the official qt components docu? I can only find something for symbian	13:31
jussi	cpscotti: ok, fair point. Is there a guide for setting that up?	13:31
cpscotti	jussi, yep.. wait a min	13:32
harbaum	http://qt.nokia.com/products/qt-addons/qt-quick-components only refers to the built-in doc of QtSDK, but my installation doesn't even include a single qt components demo or example	13:32
jussi	cpscotti: got to run out to the shop, brb. Ill look for the post when I get back. thanks.	13:33
cpscotti	jussi, should be here: https://www.developer.nokia.com/search/search.xhtml?view=ebs&s=x&tl=0&ob=best&me=false&l=20&expandDoc=false&k=harmattan+scratchbox&oldK=harmattan&submit_button= but developer.nokia is acting weird	13:35
cpscotti	jussi, found it: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Getting_started_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Configuring_Platform_SDK_for_Harmattan	13:36
thp	harbaum: pong	13:41
harbaum	thp: i am struggling with rotation on my qml app. do you know some docs on how to enable rotation on plain qt apps (no qt components)?	13:42
alterego	Wait, no open link in terminal omgwtfbbq?!?!?!	13:43
Damion3	oh, the dev release doesn't have -n on meego-termina;	13:44
thp	harbaum: wrap a PageStackWindow around your root element	13:44
harbaum	thp: Oh, so no way around qt components	13:45
harbaum	That's sad as the demos fail to run nicely on the desktop and i'd really like to stay cross plattform	13:45
thp	harbaum: http://repo.or.cz/w/gpodder.git/blob/harmattan:/data/ui/qml/main_harmattan.qml	13:46
thp	harbaum: you can have two different qml files per platform	13:46
thp	it's how i do it with gpodder	13:46
harbaum	and where does the branch takie place?	13:47
thp	harbaum: the cross-platform main file then is this: http://repo.or.cz/w/gpodder.git/blob/harmattan:/data/ui/qml/main_default.qml	13:47
thp	harbaum: in the setSource call on QDeclarativeView	13:47
harbaum	so the main app needs to know it runs on meego	13:47
thp	yes	13:47
harbaum	how to achieve that?	13:48
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thp	http://repo.or.cz/w/gpodder.git/blob/harmattan:/src/gpodder/__init__.py, 'detect_platform'	13:49
thp	i basically read /etc/issue and check if the string MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan is in there	13:49
thp	that's not the most sane way of doing it, but it works for me	13:49
harbaum	Imho there is no sane way as they explicitely don't want you to detect meego as such	13:50
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thp	yep, that's true. there could be some QSysInfo api, but i have not looked into that	13:51
vitna	hi everyone	13:51
thp	harbaum: it would be cool if qml supported conditional imports	13:52
vitna	someone has used qtmultimediakit 1.1 on n950?	13:52
harbaum	if would be cool if qml were just cross plattform	13:52
thp	harbaum: which platform are you missing?	13:52
harbaum	desktop	13:52
thp	vitna: yep, why?	13:52
thp	harbaum: it supports desktop	13:53
vitna	thp: i tried with Audio and SoundEffect elemtns in qml and on phone doesn't work	13:53
vitna	in the simulator all work fine	13:53
thp	vitna: audio definitely works, haven't used SoundEffect yet	13:54
vitna	strange	13:54
thp	vitna: try using it without the soundeffect - maybe it's a bug there	13:54
vitna	ok now i try	13:55
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harbaum_	thp: are you running qt components on the desktop? The forum ppa stuff can't find theme related media in myinstallation	13:56
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mgedmin	I'm curious: is the mail client on the n950 modest or something else?	13:59
Stskeeps	no, this is qmf based	14:01
lardman	re	14:03
lardman	harbaum_: re Qt pro stuff, oh, shame	14:03
harbaum_	lardman: I am searching the the way to build and app for desktop, maemo5, symbina and meego _today_	14:07
vitna	doh :-1: error: Packaging failed: Foreign debian directory detected.	14:08
lardman	harbaum_: I just want to build for maemo5 and meego/harmattan; do let me know what you find out	14:09
achipa	harbaum_: qml is cross platfom, but UI paradigms and platform guidelines inherently aren't...	14:17
lcuk	achipa, write an app and feel confident enough about its UX and keep that style wherever you use it (see apple products on windows)	14:22
achipa	lcuk: style is the least of the issues, and that is why crossplatform does work on the desktop	14:23
achipa	(for now I must add, seeing where Windows 8 is going)	14:23
lcuk	and we see many apps not following the os guidelines	14:24
achipa	Which is a bad thing, especially when the guidelines tie into input methods and services	14:25
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lcuk	achipa, not suggesting otherwise	14:33
lcuk	for starting a new app on any platform I agree, "use the guidelines, Luke" is absolutely right thing to do	14:34
lcuk	but once your app grows and becomes cross platform that is more tricky	14:34
achipa	cross-platform UI is dead even on the web (as sites move to have at least two versions, desktop and mobile)	14:34
achipa	lcuk: all the more reasons to do proper UI-logic decoupling and as thin UI layer as possible	14:35
* lcuk nods		14:36
lcuk	ps achipa many devices now have selling point of being able to browse the "normal" websites ;)	14:36
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lardman	the issue for me is not ui related, it's that writing some component may require that different things are done on different platforms - even harmattan vs maemo5	15:03
lardman	so in the code one can use #defines, but I'm not sure what one does with the .pro file. E.g. for maemo5 I want the hildon stuff in there, but for harmattan I don't	15:04
lardman	.pc file imports basically iirc	15:04
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achipa	lcuk: 'being able to' is a poor surogate for 'conveniently', as we've seen from the iOS example	15:15
achipa	lardman: wint^H^H^H^Hharmattan scopes are coming	15:16
lardman	achipa: good news	15:16
lardman	any ideas as to timeline?	15:16
achipa	next SDK update, whenever that is (soon TM)	15:17
lardman	cool :)	15:17
djszapi	soon is generally a scary and long meaning :)	15:18
achipa	lardman: djszapi: for impatient souls: http://wiki.meego.com/Porting_Fremantle_Applications_to_Harmattan#Harmattan_scope	15:19
djszapi	achipa: it is not just about us, almost the whole community with these gadgets..	15:19
achipa	yes, that's why it's in a wiki :)	15:20
djszapi	well, 4-5 weeks are a forever life :)	15:20
djszapi	or if it is even more :)	15:20
achipa	the bottom line is - don't invent a Q_WS_MAEMO6 or sorts when a 'real', supported define is coming	15:21
Damion3	why can't the n900 and n950 sync stuff over BT ?	15:22
lardman	Damion3: they can	15:22
macmaN	they can	15:22
Damion3	I can find and pair and hcitool scan finds eachother	15:23
Damion3	but trying to sync contacts simply refuses to see the other device	15:23
Damion3	and I'm not the only person to report this	15:23
macmaN	http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950	15:23
macmaN	yep but youre the last person in the world to read this wiki	15:24
macmaN	LAST I SAY	15:24
Damion3	macmaN: that worked on the previous firmware, I couldn't get the n950 to see the n900 so I pushed from the n900. However now the n900 camn't see the n950. I found this wiki page after already discovering this myself last time.	15:24
Damion3	hmm "YMMV it would seem. -lardman " :)	15:25
macmaN	ok anyway, what i ended up doing was to make N900 "Get Contacts" that seems to for some reason live inside the Send menu	15:26
macmaN	that was before that wiki page was born	15:26
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Damion3	hmm	15:27
Damion3	I wonder if this has anything to do with the type of device the n900 is reporting itself as. In another BT scanning window the n950 sees it as a camera but other phones as handsets	15:31
Damion3	/etc/bluetooth/main.conf has a class setting which makes this differ from a normal handset	15:47
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djszapi	Who would feel like helping with a community IRC client for Harmattan ? Have someone started it ?	16:02
djszapi	* has	16:02
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Damion3	okay I synced by using a C0	16:08
Damion3	as both phones were able to connect and sync to that device and we had one lying around.	16:09
Damion3	I suspect it's the device type which contact sync isn't happy with. I should update the wiki	16:09
frals	Damion3: C0?	16:16
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jussi	bah, cant seem to get anything to appear in xephyr after following http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Getting_started_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Configuring_Platform_SDK_for_Harmattan	16:19
jussi	any tips?	16:19
spenap	what's failing, jussi ?	16:24
jussi	spenap: it all seems to work fine, I start scratchbox, xephyr, run the session start, but then there is nothing in the xephyr screen.	16:25
spenap	basically: launch xephyr outside scratchbox with the params they specify there, export the display inside scratchbox so it uses the Xephyr instance and then invoke meego-sb-session start	16:25
jussi	spenap: yes, thats exactly what I did.	16:27
jussi	http://paste.ubuntu.com/647290/	16:27
jussi	and http://paste.ubuntu.com/647292/	16:28
spenap	well, I have +extension Composite instead of -extension Composite (don't know why, just "recycled" the command I already had for launching Xephyr)	16:29
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spenap	besides that, I don't see differences there. However, sometimes my Xephyr doesn't show anything until I click on the screen	16:30
spenap	and drag left or drag	16:30
jussi	yeah, I just copied that which is on the wiki.	16:30
spenap	then it re-paints and the content appears	16:30
jussi	Yeah, I tried that. might try restarting xephyr	16:30
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jussi	spenap: ahh, I figured it out :)	16:35
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jussi	bit strange, the display needed to be exported as =:2.0 not =: ... o.O	16:37
jussi	bit strange, the display needed to be exported as =:2.0 not =:2 ... o.O	16:37
spenap	mm	16:37
flux	jussi, doesn't matter	16:38
spenap	I'm using =:2 and works for me, you must have solved it with some other change	16:38
flux	by =:2 you mean the value is :2, right?	16:38
Damion3	frals: some tiny S^3 device, possibly NDA	16:39
jussi	the only thing I changed was [sbox-HARMATTAN_X86: ~] > export DISPLAY=:2 to [sbox-HARMATTAN_X86: ~] > export DISPLAY=:2.0	16:39
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flux	jussi, and if you switch it back again, it stops working etc? funny thing then.	16:40
flux	I would expect DISPLAY=:2 xlsclients and DISPLAY=:2.0 xlsclients to work equally	16:40
Mek	hmm, the harmattan application template thing in qt creator claims an app icon has to be 64x64 pixels, yet the icon templates and guidelines say app icons are 80x80 pixels	16:41
flux	mek, I think it wants to say you're supposed to use only 64x64 for the icon or something, while the template is bigger	16:41
fiferboy	Mek: App icons needs to be 64x64 for the application manager	16:41
Mek	well, qt creator refuses to use any file that is no 64x64 pixels	16:41
Mek	hmm, okay... so a 64x64 icon for the app manager and a 80x80 for the actual menu... (most icons in the app manager currently just seem ugly rescaled 80x80 ones at least...)	16:43
jussi	right, Im off, talk laters again :)	16:43
Mek	still seems like a bug in the qt creator template that it doesn't have support for the 80x80 one	16:43
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Summeli	Kaadlajk: thanks for the tip. I got the swipe disabled :)	16:54
razvanpetru	Hi, any solutions for the SelectionDialog C++ model bug? I'm trying to build a combobox and I'm stuck...	16:55
razvanpetru	better yet, why are there no comboboxes? :P	16:56
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fiferboy	razvanpetru: You are trying to implement a SelectionDialog using QWidgets?	17:01
razvanpetru	no, I'm trying to use the one from Harmattan	17:02
razvanpetru	which doesn't support C++ models apparently, it only supports ListModel :(	17:02
fiferboy	Ah. But a QML ListModel can use a C++ delegate (I think)	17:03
fiferboy	Does that help in your situation?	17:03
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razvanpetru	yeah but... how will I get the 100 items inside that ListModel?	17:03
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razvanpetru	I've tried to add each item from the model from JS like this: for(var i = 0;i < qmlModel.rowCount();++i)	17:03
razvanpetru	but QML can't see the rowCount function	17:04
Mek	hmm, there doesn't even seem to be any reason why model is hardcoded to be a ListModel in that qml file...	17:04
frals	worst case you just copy the implementation and change the property to be <whatever> instead of ListModel	17:04
frals	since the implementation doesnt seem to depend on the fact its a ListModel	17:05
frals	should file a bug about that if you havent already	17:05
razvanpetru	what type should I use instead of ListModel?	17:05
razvanpetru	e.g: property TheTtpe model: <value>	17:05
frals	QObject should do fine I guess	17:06
razvanpetru	ok thanks :)	17:06
razvanpetru	I see it's importing UIConstants.js though... on the phone that import fails for me	17:06
razvanpetru	do I have to also deploy it on the phone?	17:06
Mek	or just make it an alias for selectionListView.model	17:06
frals	as long as your model is compaatible with listviews model and has a count() method	17:06
Mek	so `property alias model: selectionListView.model` would probably be the best solution	17:06
frals	yeah, what Mek said would be better	17:07
frals	or hm	17:07
razvanpetru	selectionListView also refers to root.model :)	17:08
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Venemo	we should launch the "What's your favorite error message in Harmattan" contest	17:10
Venemo	so far, my favorite error message from my N950 is "Something's wrong with your network connection."	17:11
razvanpetru	funny, on device it can't find CommonDialog, the parent of SelectionDialog	17:11
fiferboy	Venemo: Not an error message but I like the Warantee screen :)	17:11
Venemo	fiferboy, warranty? that is funny too, yes :)	17:12
razvanpetru	teaches me to meddle with the official components I guess...	17:12
razvanpetru	but I don't get something: I inject my C++ model to QML and QML can't find the methods like rowCount... this is totally unexpected	17:13
Venemo	razvanpetru, you wanna add a C++ class to QML?	17:13
razvanpetru	Venemo: I did it like this: QAbstractItemModel *const countryModel = &d->countries; d->context->setContextProperty("qmlCountryModel", countryModel);	17:14
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Venemo	mhm	17:14
razvanpetru	and QML can see the object, if I console.log it the name is correct... but when I enumerate its properties with for(var x in qmlCountryModel) the model stuff is missing	17:15
Venemo	hmm	17:15
Venemo	what is the type of d->countries?	17:15
razvanpetru	class CountryModel : public QAbstractListModel	17:16
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razvanpetru	I'm trying to create a combobox of countries... 10x harder than I expected really	17:16
razvanpetru	although now that I think about it, rowCount is not Q_INVOKABLE...	17:19
Venemo	why don't you register that type?	17:19
Venemo	qmlRegisterType<CountryModel>("YourAppName", 1, 0, "CountryModel");	17:20
Venemo	before you load the QML	17:20
Venemo	then:	17:20
Venemo	d->context->setContextProperty("qmlCountryModel", d->countries);	17:21
Venemo	remember to use the Q_PROPERTY macro in the class for properties	17:21
Venemo	razvanpetru, ^^	17:21
Venemo	I hope this helps	17:21
razvanpetru	if I register it, what can I do with it that is not possible just with setContext?	17:22
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razvanpetru	I think I still have to mark the functions/variables of interest :)	17:24
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Venemo	you misunderstand.	17:25
Venemo	razvanpetru, registering makes the QML engine aware of your class.	17:26
Venemo	razvanpetru, adding to context adds an object to the context	17:26
razvanpetru	and if we combine them, QML is aware of my object :)	17:26
razvanpetru	but I still have to say Q_PROPERTY, Q_INVOKABLE I think?	17:26
razvanpetru	at the beginning I was expecting some magic to make models' functions available in QML, but I think there's no easy way	17:27
Venemo	the functions will be available	17:28
Venemo	my stuff is a lot less complicated than yours, but still, I can show you if you wish	17:29
Venemo	http://sources.venemo.net/harmattan/ -> the .zip here contains the source	17:29
razvanpetru	thanks	17:30
rm_work	gaaaah going to have no development time today, sucky	17:31
rm_work	going to see a movie with GF... sad that I am more like "gah no development time" than "yay movie" tho >_>	17:31
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razvanpetru	Venemo: correct me if I'm wrong, but the functions are only available because you've marked them with Q_PROPERTY, right?	17:34
razvanpetru	I don't think it can work otherwise, moc can't know what function to expose.	17:34
Venemo	razvanpetru, nono	17:34
Venemo	razvanpetru, see that I can call methods too	17:34
razvanpetru	how does it work then	17:35
Venemo	eg. I called MemoryGameBoard::starGame	17:35
Venemo	from my QML	17:35
razvanpetru	well that one's a slot :)	17:35
razvanpetru	mystery solved :D	17:35
Venemo	http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/declarative-tutorials-extending-chapter1-basics.html	17:36
MohammadAG	rm_work, which movie?	17:36
fiferboy	rm_work: I did development time DURING a movie with my wife last night (at home) :)	17:37
rm_work	lol me too	17:37
rm_work	last night was HP7.1	17:38
rm_work	tonight is HP7.2	17:38
fiferboy	I got a working version of FBReader packaged last night (with horrible UI, but working)	17:38
rm_work	i got... QtCreator configured	17:38
rm_work	and deployed some test apps	17:38
rm_work	so I guess that's a start	17:38
fiferboy	rm_work: I did that too :D	17:38
rm_work	trying to figure out QML... I was expecting more like the full Qt	17:38
rm_work	but it turns out i don't actually get any of the cool Qt widgets	17:39
rm_work	I guess	17:39
rm_work	not really sure how that works	17:39
razvanpetru	cool widgets like combobox	17:39
rm_work	and since they are defined in QML and not in the code, I'm still not sure how to access them from the code part	17:39
razvanpetru	who needs comboboxes...	17:39
MohammadAG	what's the ProductOrders URL?	17:40
rm_work	the struggles of a GTK+ developer who has some experience with the old Qt and was expecting something similar...	17:40
fiferboy	rm_work: It took me pretty much all of last week to get a handle on QML/Qt Components	17:40
rm_work	I should have started sooner	17:40
rm_work	but	17:40
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Stskeeps	if my wife can make apps with qt components, so can you guys	17:40
Stskeeps	:P	17:40
rm_work	was busy all the past few weeks anyway	17:40
rm_work	lol Stskeeps	17:40
Venemo	rm_work, you get cooler stuff than the old QWidgets	17:41
rm_work	your wife could have a PhD in compsci for all I know :P	17:41
Stskeeps	rm_work: nah, economics	17:41
rm_work	lol	17:41
Stskeeps	and not phd	17:41
Venemo	rm_work, for a working and very-very simple example, you could look at the source I linked a bit earlier.	17:41
rm_work	yeah	17:41
rm_work	i was about to	17:41
rm_work	I found the source for the statusbar widgets and was trying to get them to compile with no luck	17:42
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rm_work	neither the builtin statusbar widget (volume) or the demo ones would work	17:47
kimju	any idea where the keymap for hw keyboard is specified?	17:47
kimju	I already found the xml files for vkb	17:47
rm_work	can anyone with more experience with this help me out a bit? see if you can get the demos from the system-ui package to compile?	17:48
rm_work	i was getting a different error with each one	17:48
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razvanpetru	what errors	17:49
Venemo	rm_work, maybe ask achipa when he comes back, he's a pro	17:49
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razvanpetru	wonder if you can have functions as properties	17:51
razvanpetru	e.g property function foo: function() { console.log("bar"); }	17:52
rm_work	razvanpetru: pasted a bunch of them last night, i am at work now	17:52
rm_work	the errors were different depending on which API i tried to use	17:52
rm_work	either Harmattan Platform API, or Meego 1.2 Harmattan API	17:52
rm_work	one would be missing something like MLibrary	17:52
razvanpetru	do you have a link to the sources?	17:53
rm_work	and the other would be missing some huge thing	17:53
rm_work	yeah sec let me find it	17:53
Venemo	razvanpetru, you can just do function foo() { ... }	17:53
razvanpetru	no I was thinking of doing a generic combobox	17:53
Venemo	ah	17:53
rm_work	http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/s/system-ui/	17:53
razvanpetru	right now I'm using a stupid hack and adding each item in the ListView when the dialog is shown	17:53
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rm_work	err wait thats the debs	17:54
razvanpetru	I've tried to hack SelectionDialog but it doesn't even work	17:54
rm_work	oh no there's the tar.hz	17:54
rm_work	*gz	17:54
razvanpetru	can't find UIConstants, can't find some QML items if i copy it in my file	17:54
rm_work	http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/s/system-ui/system-ui_0.20.74-1+0m6.tar.gz	17:54
rm_work	theres a demo folder in there	17:54
rm_work	couldn't get either demo to compile	17:54
rm_work	also there's the built-in extensions / plugins or whatever they're called	17:55
razvanpetru	that's a hefty package... :)	17:55
rm_work	couldn't get those to compile either	17:55
kimju	ok, found the hw kbd layouts: /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/evdev	17:55
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seif	bey guys	18:26
seif	guys i want to install my own package but aegis wont let me since it does not know the source	18:27
seif	i want to install python-telepathy	18:28
seif	from the maemo repos	18:28
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fiferboy	seif: Did you download it and try installing as root with dpkg?	18:32
seif	devel-su	18:33
seif	how do i access root	18:33
seif	?	18:33
fiferboy	devel-su should work	18:33
seif	it wont let me	18:34
seif	~ # dpkg -i --force /home/developer/debs/python-telepathy_0.15.17-1_all.deb	18:34
seif	Aegis rejecting /home/developer/debs/python-telepathy_0.15.17-1_all.deb: package 'python-telepathy' already installed from 'com.nokia.maemo' -- not replacing it from unknown origin	18:34
seif	aegis aborting dpkg -- all listed package files rejected	18:34
alterego	Doesn't sound like you're in developer mode.	18:34
alterego	I just ssh root@localhost :)	18:34
seif	what is the password then	18:34
seif	ah got it	18:35
seif	rootme	18:35
alterego	Heh	18:35
alterego	Such a good password .. Everyone manages to guess it ..	18:35
seif	well	18:35
seif	RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# dpkg -i --force /home/developer/debs/python-telepathy_0.15.17-1_all.deb	18:35
seif	Aegis rejecting /home/developer/debs/python-telepathy_0.15.17-1_all.deb: package 'python-telepathy' already installed from 'com.nokia.maemo' -- not replacing it from unknown origin	18:35
seif	aegis aborting dpkg -- all listed package files rejected	18:35
seif	can i get aegis to shut up	18:35
fiferboy	Ah, installing an unkown source over a trusted source	18:36
fiferboy	aegis definitely wouldn't like that	18:36
fiferboy	No idea how to bypass that, though	18:36
alterego	You have to uninstall it, then install the untrusted one.	18:36
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kimju	seif, dpkg -P --force-all, then reinstall the new	18:44
seif	done	18:44
seif	thanks	18:44
seif	ok any idea how i can run a something wiht "aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec"	18:45
Scifig	Hi, Is it possible to use single debian/control file for harmattan and fremantle but use different package names in the "Depends" field?	18:48
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alterego	Scifig: not really no.	18:52
seif	guys how do i use "aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec"	18:52
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harbaum	Argh ... the first qt component i ever use misses theming files ....	18:57
harbaum	Blanco is missing meegotouch-button-navigationbar-button-background-disabled	18:57
seif	MohammadAG, there=	18:58
seif	?	18:58
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Scifig	alterego: Then the only option is to use multiple debian folders with different control files? debian_fremantle/debian_harmattan?	18:59
Scifig	I am using scratchbox with one debian folder. Not sure how to make multiple debian_* folders work there	18:59
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seif	guys can some1 help me with aegis please?	19:05
seif	i keep getting	19:06
seif	RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec	19:06
seif	Error: Permission denied	19:06
mgedmin	whoa, meego-term sets $TERM to 'linux'	19:16
mgedmin	seif, from your root shell start a subshell with 'develsh', and then try that aegis-foofoo in that subshell	19:16
hiemanshu	alterego: devel-su > ssh :P	19:20
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fiferboy	If an application is not a "native" Harmattan app and isn't showing up as a thumbnail in the task switcher is there something you can add to the .desktop file?	19:37
fiferboy	I seem to remember this being the case with Fremantle	19:38
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cpscotti	fiferboy_, well generally having the .desktop and deploying it properly would do the trick	20:01
fiferboy_	cpscotti: Hmm, I wonder why it doesn't show up then	20:02
cpscotti	fiferboy_, QtCreator generates .desktop files for the "Harmattan App" template	20:02
cpscotti	compare yours to that one	20:02
fiferboy_	I have done that, and everything from a Harmattan desktop file is in mine	20:03
fiferboy_	Maybe it is something extra in mine that is throwing it off	20:03
cpscotti	humm.. is the .desktop file being installed in the right place? iirc there's a dh_something to trigger updating that.. if it appears after reboot might be something like that	20:05
fiferboy_	cpscotti: Yeah, the desktop file is in the correct place and it even launches the applications	20:05
fiferboy_	It just doesn't show in the task switcher as a running application	20:05
cpscotti	try rebooting..	20:05
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cpscotti	if it shows up it's something related to the debian/rules dh_something..	20:06
fiferboy_	Tried that, still the same	20:06
cpscotti	hmm	20:06
fiferboy_	My desktop file is not the same as an app deployed from the SDK	20:06
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fiferboy	Sorry, NOW the same	20:06
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cpscotti	what about the rules?	20:07
fiferboy	Rules are definitely different than a typical Harmattan built application	20:08
fiferboy	It is like the window is missing some property that shows the system it is running	20:08
fiferboy	I thought in Fremantle with, for example, SDL apps you could override this in the desktop file	20:08
Mek	the window doesn't have the don't-show flag set?	20:08
fiferboy	Mek: I haven't explicitly set that	20:09
fiferboy	X-HildonDesk-ShowInToolbar=true	20:09
Mek	what kind of thing is your window?	20:10
fiferboy	A QApplication	20:10
Mek	that's not a window...	20:10
fiferboy	Well, it is a QApplication based program so I assume QWindow os sth	20:11
Mek	there is no such class (in qt4)	20:11
Mek	so you don't know what widget your window is?	20:12
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Mek	because some widgets like QDialog do have the don't show flag set by default	20:12
fiferboy	Mek: I am compiling the Qt4 version of FBReader	20:12
cpscotti	fiferboy, isn't it QMainWindow ?	20:13
fiferboy	I haven't dug into it too far, but it runs fine (desktop UI) but doesn't display	20:13
fiferboy	cpscotti: That sounds right	20:13
Scifig	I have QApplication based Qt quick app which is displayed in task switcher. I have Categories and OnlyShowIn=X-MeeGo; set in .desktop file	20:13
Scifig	I don't think using QApplication is an issue here.	20:14
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fiferboy	Scifig: I had those set and it didn't make a difference	20:15
frals	fiferboy: if you can link us to a repo with code i think this would get easier :)	20:15
fiferboy	frals: The fbreader.org page has the source (no repo as far as I know)	20:16
fiferboy	I have overriden a few things so I can build the debian desktop version in HARMATTAN_ARM scratchbox	20:16
* cpscotti is lost around FBReader's source.. Jeez!		20:17
fiferboy	cpscotti: I was glad that someone else expressed interest in porting it, since the QT4 interface isn't ideal	20:17
cpscotti	frals, fiferboy http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle-1.3/free/source/f/fbreader/ this one?	20:17
fiferboy	I just wanted a quick and dirty build	20:17
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fiferboy	cpscotti: Same verion as 0.12.10, but from the site rather than maemo repo	20:18
fiferboy	FBReader has all the different packaging (maemo2/3/4/5, desktop, etc) built into the main source	20:19
frals	wow that code base is scare	20:20
frals	scary*	20:20
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fiferboy	frals: Yeah, that's why I'm not getting too deep :)	20:20
cpscotti	frals, yep.. apparently main window inherits ZLApplication ... now... wthell's that?	20:21
frals	fiferboy: but it works fine except it doesnt show up in task switcher?	20:21
fiferboy	fms is going to work on a port and he is pretty familiar with it	20:21
frals	cpscotti: ZLibrary is in the root, seems to be a "convenient" wrapper for all toolkits you can imagine :D	20:21
fiferboy	cpscotti: Ah yes, ZLibrary is the giant library it is based on with multiple UIs	20:21
fiferboy	frals: Yes, everything is working (after I packaged a couple libraries) except task switcher	20:22
mgedmin	fiferboy, if you manage to get fbreader working, I'll be eternally grateful	20:22
frals	it seems to inherit from qmainwindow, so i suppose it should work...	20:23
cpscotti	frals, hahehe.. found it now.. jeez.. these guys aren't lazy at all!	20:23
fiferboy	mgedmin: If you don't need the task switcher (just restart and close) you can get a fairly good version from me :)	20:23
fiferboy	mgedmin: Interface has desktop-sized elements, but the reader works fine	20:24
mgedmin	I could try to help you debug maybe	20:24
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mgedmin	are you using qt creator or scratchbox?	20:25
fiferboy	scratchbox	20:26
fiferboy	I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a project that Qt Creator would understand	20:27
frals	fiferboy: i would probably see if modifying the constructor of ZLQtApplicationWindow::ZLQtApplicationWindow(ZLApplication *application) :	20:28
frals	would make a difference	20:28
GeneralAntilles	Really wish we had newer firmware.	20:28
fiferboy	frals: I'll take a look at that, thanks	20:28
frals	but might not make a difference, the move/resize/setWindowIcon looks interesting to me, but it shouldnt break the taskswitcher...	20:29
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* mgedmin wonders if the task switcher expects to see a certain WM_CLASS, or some other property, or maybe expects to find a .desktop file matching the application		20:30
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: You should start a campaign to get it	20:30
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, hehe, there's something I'm good at.	20:31
fiferboy	mgedmin: I tried playing around with X-Maemo-WM-Class in the desktop file	20:31
mgedmin	hey, xprop is preinstalled on the n950, neat	20:31
frals	mgedmin might have the answer	20:31
frals	does a "normal" plain qt app show up in task switcher?	20:31
hiemanshu	frals: yes	20:32
hiemanshu	frals: my plain app showed up just fine	20:32
mgedmin	I'm seeing interesting properties like	20:32
mgedmin	_MEEGOTOUCH_VISIBLE_IN_SWITCHER(CARDINAL) = 0	20:32
mgedmin	on a browser window	20:32
mgedmin	it becomes 1 when I swipe away from the window into a task switcher	20:33
mgedmin	so it looks like something the window manager maintains, not something the app itself does	20:33
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seif	what do u think guys	20:34
seif	?	20:34
seif	http://i.imgur.com/V1dIj.png	20:34
cpscotti	seif, cool.. what is it?	20:37
seif	cpscotti, basically i am logging anything you do using zeitgeist	20:37
seif	then i can open the map widget	20:37
seif	point at a location	20:38
seif	and it will hsow me stuff i did at the location	20:38
mgedmin	fiferboy, fbreader upstream repository is at https://github.com/geometer/FBReader/	20:38
fiferboy	mgedmin: Ah cool, last I cehcked there was no repo	20:38
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cpscotti	seif, cool! I once thought about doing something like that but never went further.. cool!	20:38
mgedmin	last I checked they were using subversion, a couple of years ago	20:38
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mgedmin	the repository url is not exactly easily findable on the fbreader page	20:39
mgedmin	well, I tell a lie, I found it by going to fbreader.org and pressing Ctrl+F repository <enter>	20:39
mgedmin	but the menu on top has nothing about development/sources/VCS/etc.	20:39
fiferboy	Wasn't it a private repo for a while though?	20:39
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seif	cpscotti, are u familiar with qt	20:40
seif	or meego-touch	20:40
GeneralAntilles	My ButtonRow keeps ending up at the top of the page almost off screen. . . .	20:41
cpscotti	seif, qt.. yes. meego-touch.. trying to get there	20:42
mgedmin	interesting, there's a "bada" branch on fbreader's git repo	20:42
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Are you using an anchor layout?	20:43
GeneralAntilles	anchors doesn't seem to affect placement.	20:43
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fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Set 'buttonRow.anchors.top: parent.top' ?	20:44
fiferboy	Or something like that	20:44
GeneralAntilles	No effect.	20:45
frals	GeneralAntilles: are you anchoring to the window top? i think you need to allow space for the statusbar unless you are full-fullscreen	20:45
GeneralAntilles	Trying to anchor it in the toolbar.	20:45
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Is your toolbar anchors to the page bottom?	20:45
frals	GeneralAntilles: can we see code and picture? :)	20:45
GeneralAntilles	ToolBarLayout { ButtonRow { anchors.top: parent.top } }	20:46
GeneralAntilles	Actually, the button row seems to nuke the whole toolbar.	20:46
GeneralAntilles	'cause the other ToolIcon ends up right center.	20:46
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Try just anchoring the left and right of the button row to the toolbar left/right	20:47
GeneralAntilles	I basically copied the code here: http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/qt-components/qt-components-meego-tabbutton.html	20:47
frals	GeneralAntilles: and how does the page you added it to look?	20:48
GeneralAntilles	http://pastebin.com/yKaavdrw	20:48
frals	GeneralAntilles: do you have smth like this: Page { tools: ToolBarLayout { ButtonRow } } }	20:48
GeneralAntilles	Where do the ctrl-shft-p screenshots end up?	20:49
frals	MyDocs/Pictures or MyDocs/.images iirc	20:49
frals	GeneralAntilles: I think you should have tools: ToolBarLayout { on line 11	20:49
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seif	cpscotti, maybe we can work together on making this a badass app :)	20:51
GeneralAntilles	Now I've got a blank screen	20:52
GeneralAntilles	A well-commented example application would be a big help.	20:52
cpscotti	seif, cool.. are you using anything like github or the like already?	20:53
seif	launchpad	20:54
seif	?	20:54
cpscotti	seif, cool! link?	20:54
seif	https://code.launchpad.net/~seif/+junk/qt-lav	20:54
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mgedmin	fiferboy, where could I find an fbreader deb that you've built?	20:54
* GeneralAntilles sighs.		20:55
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GeneralAntilles	The docs are no help at all here.	20:55
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cpscotti	seif, cool! python :D! I'll have a look when I have time!	20:56
seif	cpscotti, awesome	20:56
* cpscotti getting hist late afternoon espresso ready!		20:56
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frals	GeneralAntilles: blank page after adding tools:? any warning?	21:00
piggz	is anyone else having problems adding Meego:1.2:Harmatten to their list of repositories in the home proect?	21:00
mgedmin	I like how the harmattan sdk setup script is written in Python and not in shell	21:01
GeneralAntilles	frals, dunno.	21:01
* GeneralAntilles gives up for the moment.		21:01
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fiferboy	mgedmin: http://andrew.olmsted.ca/harmattan/packages	21:01
GeneralAntilles	If anybody can point to an application that implements page tabs in the toolbar it'd be much appreciated.	21:01
fiferboy	mgedmin: Everything in that directory except personal-lexicon is required	21:02
fiferboy	Also, it tunrs out that FBReader DOES show up in the task switcher, it just closes IMMEDIATELY afterward	21:02
mgedmin	whoa	21:04
mgedmin	crashes, you mean?	21:04
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fiferboy	mgedmin: Yeah, segfault	21:04
* mgedmin enjoys the preinstalled wget		21:04
mgedmin	oh aegis you so funny	21:05
* mgedmin demands sudo!		21:06
* mgedmin forgot that devel-su changes the current working directory		21:06
fiferboy	mgedmin: Yeah, that stung me before	21:07
fiferboy	mgedmin: If you set a keybinding for full screen you should be good to go (I think)	21:08
GeneralAntilles	Firefox must be available somewhere.	21:10
mgedmin	fiferboy, fbreader doesn't appear to want to start from the launcher, but I can run it from a shell	21:11
fiferboy	Yeah, I fixed that locally (didn't make it into the build)	21:12
fiferboy	mgedmin: Actually, it works after a reboot	21:14
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mgedmin	huh?	21:15
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mgedmin	what was the fix? updating some kind of .desktop cache from a postinst?	21:16
fiferboy	mgedmin: No, the fixed file is in that install (I think) but it takes a reboot after install (I think)	21:16
fiferboy	Worked for me, anyway	21:16
fiferboy	mgedmin: The cache update might be the ticket	21:16
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mgedmin	and boom segfault	21:18
mgedmin	on swipe, like you said	21:19
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mgedmin	backtrace: http://pastie.org/2238548	21:22
mgedmin	I suppose the app ought to check if it's visible or not and refrain from drawing if it's not?	21:23
fiferboy	mgedmin: zlibrary seems like it would handle its own paint events, so that is very likely an issue	21:24
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GeneralAntilles	http://www.flickr.com/photos/sjgadsby/5954394183/	21:25
xerxes2	anyone found arrows on the swkb?	21:26
Scifig	GeneralAntilles, Did you try this? tabbed UI --> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/How_to_build_a_tabbed_UI_with_QML	21:27
mgedmin	xerxes2, do you mean there are arrows that could be found?	21:27
xerxes2	no i can't find any	21:27
GeneralAntilles	Scifig, not Qt Components.	21:27
GeneralAntilles	Which is where I'm stumbling.	21:27
Scifig	GeneralAntilles, That example doesn't use Qt components, it is plain QML	21:28
GeneralAntilles	Right	21:28
xerxes2	if anyone that got a n950 i put up packages for panucci to test: http://enlisy.org/~xerxes2/pkg/	21:29
xerxes2	dunno if mutagen already exists somewhere	21:29
xerxes2	if not you need that too	21:30
xerxes2	haven't done the headset support yet	21:30
xerxes2	mgedmin: for one liners i like the swkb but without arrows it's pretty much useless	21:34
rm_work	GeneralAntilles: lol wish you were here last night	21:34
rm_work	GeneralAntilles: you seem to be going through exactly what i went through	21:34
GeneralAntilles	rm_work, ah, fun.	21:35
GeneralAntilles	I wish the Qt Components widget example application were actually commented in a useful way.	21:35
mgedmin	xerxes2, in xterm you can use ctrl-p/n/f/b and home the app implements emacs keybindings ;)	21:35
rm_work	GeneralAntilles: "this designer is dumb. these anchors do nothing. where are all the widgets. how do I actually make this stuff show up."	21:35
rm_work	GeneralAntilles: yeah.... the "demo apps" that are related to what I want to do, don't compile	21:35
GeneralAntilles	I like that the tutorial application lifted its comments wholesale directly from the example app.	21:35
GeneralAntilles	Designer not working makes things irritating	21:36
GeneralAntilles	Wish the Simulator could handle Qt Components.	21:36
rm_work	GeneralAntilles: though I did eventually get one of the anchors to work	21:36
rm_work	the "bottom" anchor worked	21:36
rm_work	but the element i anchored to "top" actually disappeared and will not show up now	21:36
GeneralAntilles	There seems to be a lot of little niggles that aren't documented.	21:36
rm_work	wish i had time to do some dev tonight	21:36
GeneralAntilles	Wish we had somebody on staff with some real experience here.	21:36
rm_work	brb meeting	21:36
rm_work	yeah >_> there are some	21:37
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rm_work	ant was being helpful last night	21:37
rm_work	but srsly, brb	21:37
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles, rm_work: I'll send you my qml file to take a look at if you like	21:37
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, do you have a ButtonRow in your ToolBarLayout?	21:37
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: No, but I have a toolbutton and label anchored in there	21:38
GeneralAntilles	The problem seems to be that the ButtonRow nukes the toolbar.	21:38
GeneralAntilles	It explodes to all four corners of the screen.	21:38
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: I'll take a look, did you pastie your code somewhere?	21:38
mgedmin	fiferboy, tapping on fbreader in the launcher results in this line appearing in /var/log/syslog:	21:39
mgedmin	Jul 19 21:38:32 (none) meegotouchhome[1967]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib-GIO - g_app_info_launch_uris: assertion `G_IS_APP_INFO (appinfo)' failed	21:39
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fiferboy	mgedmin: That is with FBReader failing to launch?	21:40
mgedmin	yes	21:41
mgedmin	I haven't rebooted yet	21:41
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, http://pastebin.com/yKaavdrw	21:41
GeneralAntilles	That's the main.qml	21:41
GeneralAntilles	There's also a MainPage with the TabGroup.	21:41
GeneralAntilles	I should just put the whole project up, but I'm lazy.	21:41
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* mgedmin suddenly notices harmattan-sdk-setup.py is a 7 thousand line long Python script and decides he won't read it through after all		21:43
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mgedmin	fiferboy, fixed the fbreader launch bug with vi /usr/share/applications/FBReader.desktop by removing %F from the Exec line	21:49
mgedmin	now I need a vim .deb ...	21:50
fiferboy	mgedmin: I can launch it after a reboot with the %F	21:50
mgedmin	weird!	21:50
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Anchor your buttonrow right to the parent.right	21:51
fiferboy	That works for me	21:51
GeneralAntilles	Try it in a bit, currently trying to cleanup a twitter debate with Texrat. :P	21:51
mgedmin	fiferboy, you're right, I added the %F back and it still starts	21:51
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mgedmin	would be nice if meegotouch logged something about "noticed a change in .desktop file, reloading"	21:55
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mgedmin	what font did fbreader use on a n900?	21:57
mgedmin	SwissA, apparently	21:58
fiferboy	mgedmin: n900 used the maemo5 codebase for UI	21:58
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mgedmin	oh, develsh gives me access to dmesg again! nice	22:11
GeneralAntilles	Love that font for reading.	22:12
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Nice twitter war	22:13
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* mgedmin -> cd ~		22:18
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harbaum	I really need some qt components documentation. E.g. how are the buttons grouped in the gallery?	22:30
fiferboy	harbaum: Which buttons	22:31
fiferboy	The actual photos or the toolbar?	22:31
harbaum	the ones that are labeled "Column of Buttons"	22:32
fiferboy	harbaum: Oh sorry, thought you were talking about the gallery application :)	22:33
harbaum	no, the QMLComponentGallery	22:34
sebas	harbaum: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTCOMPONENTS-200 find "ButtonColumn"; seems quite informative	22:34
sebas	though a bit funnily styled for our well known Qt API docs ;)	22:35
harbaum	How do i interpret this? No doc at all atm?	22:37
fiferboy	harbaum: library.developer.nokia.com has documentation	22:37
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harbaum	sebas: Thanks, ButtonColumn was what i was searching for	22:47
sebas	harbaum: nice, you're welcome	22:47
deimos_	is it common not to see meego component dragged in Design ?	22:47
deimos_	do I messed up something ? :)	22:48
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fiferboy	Designer doesn't display Qt Components yet	22:58
deimos_	ty	23:01
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Mece	hello	23:16
lcuk	#MeeGo is an awesome #Linux based #MMORPG where you level up by submitting code patches and conquering the OBS machine! http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/93414143234805760	23:20
SpeedEvil	:)	23:24
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khertan	Evening !	23:33
khertan	does there is qml qt harmattan component expert in the room ?	23:33
Mek	I played a bit with it/wrote a somewhat complicated UI with it...	23:34
khertan	i'm trying to do a pseudo multi windows app	23:34
khertan	(a source code editor ... as usual)	23:34
khertan	using pagestack seems the solution	23:34
khertan	but only pop / push / replace methods available with this object	23:35
khertan	so can't navigate between windows	23:35
khertan	i didn't want a level hierarchy between the windows	23:35
khertan	and as pop destroy the Page component :)	23:35
Mek	TabGroup might work for that?	23:36
khertan	the problem of tab group is that it s put things in the toolbar	23:36
khertan	where place is limited	23:36
Mek	it's a set of pages that you would usually switch between with a set of TabButton's, but you don't need to use the TabButton of course...	23:36
piggz	latitude updater is sucessfully doing the oauth magic	23:36
piggz	map widget is displaying, jsut need to get the location	23:36
khertan	oh ... no forced use of something with qml ? :)	23:37
khertan	Mek, thx for the idea ... qt component example on that part isn't clear enough for me :)	23:37
Mek	TabGroup just seems to have a currentTab property, that you can set to any child item of the TabGroup	23:38
khertan	Mek, for your information i ve try to instantiate many QDeclarativeView to reproduce multiple windows concept in the task manager ... but this segfault each time i open more than 6 QDeclarativeView (i think it use too much memory )	23:38
Mek	lol, yeah, each QDeclarativeView has it's own javascript interpreter with all the overhead that brings...	23:39
Mek	but since only one of them can be active at the same time, couldn't you do some hack where you have multiple windows, but one QDeclarativeView that you move to the active window, so it still shows up as multiple windows in the task manager? :)	23:40
khertan	Mek, yeah but in fact it s pretty slow to use the task manager	23:40
khertan	because when you "swipe" you go sometime to icon list, to resume view, ...	23:41
khertan	and taskmanager have windows title	23:41
Mek	ah yeah	23:41
khertan	and taskmanager haven't windows title	23:41
khertan	so difficult to identify which highlighted source code you jump to	23:41
Mek	especially with it rearranging things all the time...	23:41
lcuk	khertan, make your own titlebars	23:45
lcuk	and as a hint, use a hash of the filename to make a colour	23:45
lcuk	each then has a slightly different titlebar clour but that stays the same for the files you work on	23:46
lcuk	very helpful for memory	23:46
lcuk	:)	23:46
Mek	and make it a multi-process application, one process for each file... that is what Documents does too	23:46
lcuk	the colour hints on the buttons in the right hand side toolbox use the same	23:46
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.20110607_220246.liqdesign2.scr.png	23:47
Mece	hey does the take screenshot thing work for you?	23:50
Mece	in qt widgets gallery	23:50
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khertan	lcuk, i already made my own title bar :)	23:57
khertan	lcuk, integrating everything in the same ui should be faster to switch between source view	23:58
khertan	Mece, works for me	23:58
rm_work	mgedmin: yes, WTB a vim .deb as well T_T	23:59

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