IRC log of #europython for Thursday, 2010-05-27

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zethHi all19:00
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zethHi paul_boddie19:06
paul_boddieHello zeth!19:10
zethHow are you?19:10
zeththe meeting is now today at 6pm is it?19:10
paul_boddieOK. And yourself? Busy?19:10
paul_boddieYes, the meeting was moved to today. Everyone forgot the meeting on Tuesday apart from two or three attentive souls.19:11
zethYeah busy19:11
zethbut busy with good things19:11
paul_boddieMoving to Finland not yet on the radar, then? ;-)19:12
Taggnostris there someone from Finland that will go to europython?19:16
paul_boddieProbably a few, I would imagine.19:16
paul_boddieI can't remember how many there were last year, though.19:16
Taggnostrso I guess you are not in Finland then, I see you were talking about it19:17
paul_boddieAre you in Finland?19:22
Taggnostryes19:23
paul_boddieWhereabouts?19:23
TaggnostrI'm in Turku19:25
paul_boddieI've only ever been to Helsinki and Tampere, unfortunately. Is Turku nice at this time of year?19:26
Taggnostryes19:28
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contraryhello everyone20:00
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dboddieHello20:00
dboddie(and goodbye?)20:00
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contraryeither this channel is very quiet or my xchat is sulking20:05
dboddieHello20:06
dboddieMaybe both. Your connection seems to be unpredictable.20:06
contrarywell I can "hear" you20:06
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ghumPRESENT20:07
contraryPRESENT20:08
contraryIs there an agenda20:10
ghumis there anybody else here? :)20:11
zethPRESENT20:11
contraryghum:me20:11
zethHello paul_boddie and Taggnostr20:12
ghum(besides you and me, contrary  :)20:12
dboddiePRESENT20:12
ghumaaaahhh20:12
Taggnostrhello zeth20:12
dboddie(yawn...)20:12
ghumnow it is getting crwoded :)20:12
zethpaul_boddie, Taggnostr Thanks for your messages before20:12
zethI had gone afk20:12
zethI have been to Turku a few times20:13
zethI went to the castle20:13
zethand got the ferry once from there to Stockholm, that was really cool20:13
paul_boddiePRESENT20:14
Taggnostryes, it is20:14
zethThe archipelago is really beautiful to stare at all day20:14
paul_boddieThe ferry goes via the Ă…land islands, doesn't it?20:15
zethyeah20:15
Taggnostrwhere are you from?20:15
zethand you are not really very long in open sea20:15
zethmost of the trip you are surronded by little islands20:15
zethlots of nice summer cottages and things to look at also20:16
paul_boddieYou should do the Norwegian coastal voyage for more of that kind of thing.20:17
zethOlen englantilainen20:17
paul_boddieAre we waiting for pinner?20:17
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zethJust spoke to rob20:19
zethjohn is on the say home20:19
zethjohn is on the qay home20:19
zethjohn is on the way home20:19
zethI cannot type today20:19
* ghum gives Zeth a doubleyou20:19
zeththanks20:19
zeth:-)20:19
zethpinner won't be on for 15 mins at least I imagine20:20
zethso lets start I think20:20
zethDo we have an agenda?20:20
contraryI didnt think there was a parrot in room20:21
paul_boddieI haven't seen an agenda.20:21
zethWe can probably use the old one:20:22
zethhttp://wiki.europython.eu/MeetingAgenda2010051120:22
Taggnostris there a meeting for the organizers?20:22
zethTaggnostr: yeah, you can play too20:22
zethSo20:22
zethSTARTMEETING20:22
zethAPOLOGIES20:22
dboddieDo we do the PRESENT thing again now?20:23
zethI rang John's mobile but no answer, because he is driving home20:23
zethdboddie: I think it is okay20:23
paul_boddie#startmeeting20:23
zethlets press on and not get killed by the semantics20:23
paul_boddieHave to get the syntax right! ;-)20:24
zethas we are late already20:24
zethDo we even still use that script?20:24
zethokay in case we do20:24
zethPRESENT20:24
paul_boddiePRESENT20:24
zethAPOLOGIES john pinner20:24
zeth(might come later)20:24
contraryPRESENT20:25
dboddiePRESENT20:25
ghumPRESENT20:25
ghumI have an apologie concerning talks ...20:26
zethTOPIC talks20:26
ghumthe same thing I sent around the mailing list ... I persuaded Hanns to submit a talk about Jessyink20:26
zethgo gh20:26
zethgo ghum20:26
ghum(that is Prezi but open source as Python extensions to InkScape)20:27
zethno problem20:27
ghumBad news:20:27
ghumit was submitted only friday last week...20:27
ghumso, after the initial scheduling.20:27
zeththats fine20:27
ghumWould be phantastic to be able to schedule it :)20:27
zethwe included it20:27
zethI think we included it?20:27
ghumGREAT20:27
zethAnyway we are aware of it20:28
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moreati_Sorry I'm late, my turn to forget about the meeting20:28
zethSo we met in Birmingham on sat20:28
ghumGood. Please let me add the constraints: Monday <= talk <= Tuesday20:28
zethand we made a draft of the schedule20:28
ghumyeah. loved that draft20:29
zethThanks to moreati for doing most of the heavy work with approving talks and pinner for inputting the schedule20:29
ghumwhat I enjoyed less: only one place for Lightning Talks20:29
paul_boddieYes, great job everyone!20:29
ghum(place in time)20:29
zethghum: see wed 9:4520:30
zethlecture room 120:30
zethhttp://www.europython.eu/talks/timetable/20:30
zethis that no good?20:30
zethSo that link is the draft timetable20:30
zethmore changes will happen20:30
ghumAh, JessyInk on wednesday is not possible20:30
zethpinner and I have some possible cancellations20:30
ghumHannes has to leave on Tuesday20:30
zethfine20:31
zethwe will move him up next time we change it20:31
ghumgreat!20:31
ghumif there are some cancellations20:31
zethSo when exactly is he here?20:31
zethMonday and Tuesday?20:31
ghumYes20:31
ghumHe has to leave on Tuesday evening20:31
moreati_Please also look at the Tutorial times20:31
zethright okay20:31
ghumIf more slots become available: I would love to have another LightningTalkSession20:32
zethWell20:32
zethwhat we might do20:32
zethis that if we get more cancellations20:32
zethwe might cancel a room20:32
zethLecture room 1 on wed20:33
moreati_ghum, I think one of the Plenary sessions could become lightning talks20:33
zethand have it all open space in there20:33
zethYeah20:33
zethWe don't want to scedule lightning talks against some other talks20:33
ghumyes, zeth20:34
zethlightning talks work better as plenary sessions20:34
ghumyes20:34
zeth(i.e. when everyone is therE)20:34
zeththere20:34
ghumagree totally20:34
zethSo20:34
ghumso my proposal is: if more cancellations, get a bingo-line for LT :)20:34
zethit is ongoing20:34
zethyeah20:34
zethhopefully we wont20:34
ghum(bingo=4 rooms :)20:34
zethproblems are people getting into UK20:35
zethfrom far far away20:35
zethand some people who need sponsors to fly them in20:35
zethbecause they are coming from far far away20:35
zethanyhow20:35
zeththe talks are ongoing, are you ready to move to the next topic?20:36
zethTOPIC Sponsorship20:36
ghumready20:36
paul_boddieThere are three 14:00 "keynote" slots which don't seem to be allocated to anyone currently. Maybe LT can appear in one or more of those.20:36
zethundo new-TOPIC20:36
* ghum agrees with paul_boddie20:36
paul_boddieOh, and is it safe to publicise the timetable now? Or wait until the official June 1st milestone?20:37
ghumw8 until milestone20:37
zethI think it is okay, what does moreati think?20:37
ghumas long as rescheduling is being done20:37
zethWell there will be rescheduling up until the end20:37
moreati_wait, we still need to finish those few details20:37
zethbut yes maybe wait a couple of days20:37
zethThere are a few broken links I noticed20:38
zethI will fix them20:38
zeththe abstracts page is behind the schedule20:38
zethwill need to regenerate the abstracts page20:38
zethOther than that, are people generally happy with the timetable20:39
zethany problems with it?20:39
zethAt the moment we are considering "open space" as well as the BOF point20:40
zethbut that might go, depending20:40
zethWe were going to have wed in lecture room 1 to be open space20:40
zethBut maybe the concept overlaps with BoFs?20:41
zethwhat do you all think?20:41
zethokay, well stopping the monologue20:41
ghumI cannot really find the difference between BoF and Open Space20:41
zethTOPIC Sponsorship20:41
moreati_ghum, ditto20:41
ghumSo I suggest to name it BOF  / OpenSpace20:42
zethTo me they seemed to be the same concept20:42
paul_boddieI think it overlaps, yes. As long as you don't write "Birds of a feather flock together" scarily multiple times on the schedule like at one conference I went to. Very threatening!20:42
zethbut to people who were helping last year, they seemed to have some philosophy of open space with weird rules, but I never got it20:43
zethI think maybe we can just have BoF20:43
zethBoF point has worked well in previous years20:43
zethI have enjoyed hanging out there20:43
zethaa_ was always there20:43
zethso anyway20:43
moreati_re sponsorship, John told me Oracle will be providing some, the amount isn't finalised20:44
zethgreat20:44
moreati_that's all I know20:44
zethwho is heading up sponsorship now, just john and Q?20:44
moreati_yes20:44
zethThere was someone else last year20:44
zethbut I forgot who20:44
zethAnyway since no one is here from sponsorship team, lets move on20:45
zethI wait 30 secs20:45
zethTOPIC Registration20:45
zethmoreati_: any idea on numbers?20:46
zethI haven't logged into that cart thing since PyConUK20:46
zeth200820:46
zethso I have no clue20:46
zethI was about 200 last time20:46
zethand a lot of speakers were not registered yet20:46
moreati_I don't know a more up to date number, it was 200 as of Saturday20:47
zethcool20:47
paul_boddieI'm sure pinner will inform us before the end of the meeting.20:47
zethhope so20:47
zethwe can give him a dump of the meeting thus far if he emerges20:47
zethit was jacob20:47
zethlaura's husband20:48
zeththat was who was in the sponsorship team last year20:48
zethTOPIC Accommodation20:48
zethI also know nothing about this20:48
zethTOPIC Infrastructure20:48
zethRichard Taylor is going to make signs20:48
zethpaul_boddie: any thing to add about the web or wiki?20:49
zethTOPIC Keynotes20:49
zethI know nothing about this20:49
zethTOPIC publicity20:49
zethAre we going to organise a push when the schedule is ready?20:50
zethTOPIC Any Other Business20:50
zethThats it20:50
moreati_Yes, please make a note your diaries to bombard http://wiki.europython.eu/Publicity/Channels on tuesday20:51
contrarymove on?20:51
contrarymove on?20:51
zethI suggest we arrange a new meeting when everyone else can come20:51
zethcontrary: do you have anything to say20:51
contraryyes20:51
zethgo for it20:52
contraryI want to send out a message to ep mailing list telling everyone about the Partner Programme - will it be shown on the website alongside the talks20:52
zethGood point20:52
paul_boddiezeth: Not much to add about the Web site or Wiki, really.20:52
zethcontrary: I think on the last point20:52
zethwe need to do something about that20:52
zethI agree that the partners programme should be on the same table as the schedule20:53
zethThen new people who are organising their travel here20:53
zethwill know whats on20:53
* dboddie has nothing to add about sponsorship.20:54
contraryI am confused.  are we talking about PP or sponsorship20:54
zethPP20:54
zethTOPIC partners programme20:54
dboddiePP - sorry20:54
contrarySo is it agreed the PP programme will be publicised on the same page as the talk?20:55
zethno worries, so is the timetable here final-ish? http://wiki.europython.eu/NonPythonProgramme20:55
zethEnough to put into the timetable20:55
contraryYes20:55
zethSo for the others here20:55
paul_boddieWe can promote it a bit better on the front page, too.20:55
zeththe suggestion is that we put a column in the timetable20:56
zethfor the partners programme20:56
moreati_I'll glue the PP programme and conference timetable together before tuesday20:56
contraryyes20:56
contrarywhen it is done i will send out an email20:56
zethDECISION Partners programme will be on the main timetable20:57
zethACTION moreati will glue them together20:57
zethACTION contrary will compose an email for the list about it20:57
zethACTION zeth will check links on timetable and that the abstracts are up to daste20:58
zethdate20:58
zethI think we are getting to the end now20:58
zethas anyone got anything else to say?20:58
moreati_no20:58
contrarygood night20:59
ghumgood night, too20:59
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zethI have john on phone20:59
ghumcool21:00
zethhe is coming on21:00
ghumanything newsworthy? Sponsors or KEynotes?21:00
ghumaaah21:00
ghum<--- goes into w8ing mode21:00
zeth230 registered21:00
zethpinner has agreed sponsorship with oracle21:01
zethwho haven't yet paid for last year21:01
ghumcould be an accounting database problem :)21:02
paul_boddieghum: They aren't SAP so it can't be performance issues. ;-)21:02
ghumpaul_boddie: you should not ignore the tarpits of Oracle Applications :)21:03
zethKeynotes: Simon Phipps, Bruce Lawson, Guido21:03
zeth(pinner still talking)21:03
zethGuido will do Q&A21:04
zethother people that john is talking to21:04
zethanyone want to say anything to pinner?21:05
zethsince I have him on phone?21:05
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zethPinner is saying he is in favour of more lightning talk sessions21:06
paul_boddieShould we use some of those keynote slots, then?21:06
zethpinner is here now21:06
zethso I hanged up phone21:06
moreati_hi pinner21:06
zeth19:06 < zeth> DECISION Partners programme will be on the main timetable21:06
zeth19:06 < zeth> ACTION moreati will glue them together21:06
zeth19:07 < zeth> ACTION contrary will compose an email for the list about it21:06
zeth19:07 < zeth> ACTION zeth will check links on timetable and that the abstracts are up to date21:06
pinnerhi, sorry to be so late: I've been training all week and have just come home after dropping the students at the station21:06
paul_boddieNo problem!21:07
zethJessyInk needs to be on Monday or Tuesday21:07
pinnerghum: you're right, there are not enough lightning talks21:07
ghumesp. a LT session on day 2 is helpfull21:08
ghumit may be a short one21:08
zethThe big publicity push will be on tuesday, announing the schedule21:08
paul_boddiePerhaps Wednesday at 14:00 could be a LT slot as well.21:08
ghumpaul_boddie: it would be better to have it on Tuesday21:08
ghumso Wednesday is filling more rapidly when people learn of the joy of giving a LT21:08
zeth18:51 < ghum> I cannot really find the difference between BoF and Open Space21:08
zeth18:51 < moreati_> ghum, ditto21:09
paul_boddieRemember that it's four days, ghum! Four days needing lightning talks, although Monday is probably a bit early.21:09
moreati_previous years, we've had one LT session earlier, to warm people up and encourage talks at the later sessions21:09
zeth(pinner: I pasted some of the meeting you missed)21:09
moreati_tuesday seems a good day for that21:09
pinnersuggest LT session on Tuesday,as a minimum21:09
ghumadditional LT Session that is21:10
paul_boddieFour days is unprecedented, really.21:10
pinnerzeth: I saw, ta21:11
zethThe discussion above was whether we need both open space and BoF21:11
zethWe don't have today either of the two michaels21:12
zethopen space fans21:12
zethIf we end up losing the argentian talks21:12
zethtalk21:12
pinnerThe Bof space is for small informal meetups, I think the idea os a separate bigger Open Spacde was for bigger meetups, say if the Djangoists wanted a meetup, for instance21:12
pinnerseveral people wanted a barcampish Open Space, (Mr TopF?) but I thinks that is for another occasion21:14
zethwell that is what they had before21:14
zethThey had some weird rules and sat in a circle signing kumbaya21:14
zethI don't think we have anyone to lead that this year21:15
zethMichael Sparks did that at PyConUK, and MrTopF has done the same kind of thing21:15
pinnerthere are still a few people we are expecting talks from, but who have not submitted, as usual. Like Chris Tismer, and a new person, Hilary Mason21:16
paul_boddieWhen it comes to Open Space (capital letters, with rules), the people who really want that sort of thing have to drive it. It doesn't work so well when everyone else has to second guess them.21:17
pinnerLukas as putting together a (musical) group for a jam session, he's talking to the digital music people at the Conservatoire.21:17
pinnerI guess that would have to be a late afternoon session in the Recital Hall21:18
pinnerbut until he come up with something definite we can't do much21:18
zethpaul_boddie: agreed it needs a strong and charismatic chair to keep the thing rolling, we have not had a volunteer for that as yet21:19
ghumpinner: if there is music, please make sure to give advanced info to Ableton ( sponsors in 2009, makers of musik software)21:19
paul_boddieMaybe we can mail the list and someone like Christian will step up.21:19
ghummaybe they can contribute to music making21:20
pinnerghum: will do, we need to ask them about sponsorship, as well21:20
zethpaul_boddie: good idea, assuming we still have the space21:20
zethI think we might be full21:20
zethwe have 4-5 tracks, plus BoF point21:21
zethplus people just hacking and chatting21:21
zethplus people in the loo and in the pub21:21
pinnerzeth: if need be e can always hire an extra room, say Lecture Room1, should be big enough21:21
paul_boddieEverybody knows that there's no talking allowed in the loo.21:21
ghumloo ?21:22
moreati_toilet21:22
zethI always talk to the guy in the next urinal, just don't look down21:22
zethhowever this is Euro-Python though21:22
zethurinals are not very european21:22
* pinner has just been reminded that he is supposed to be taking his wife out..21:23
pinnerzeth: the best urinals are Dutch, and have a Sphinx logo on them, they're made by a friend of mine :-)21:24
dboddieIt's probably a good moment for me to leave as well...21:24
zethI think we are done?21:24
moreati_I have nothing more.21:24
paul_boddieYes, I think I'm going, too.21:24
zethpinner: can your friend do a keynote?21:25
pinnerthanks, Zeth for chairing it, difficult keeping yourself in order, eh?21:25
zeththere was very few of us here21:25
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zethI need to re-roll the abstracts page21:26
zethI forgot how we make the pickles21:26
pinnerzeth: pass, but he might lend us some ceramic Sphinxs21:26
zethcool21:26
zethI saw some woman on the TV21:26
zethwho had set up a new factory in Stoke21:26
zethmaking ceramics21:26
zeththat would be a cool keynote21:26
zetheveryone else is closing them and moving them to china21:27
pinnerzeth: Richard is re-building the site every night as from about now, I think21:27
zethshe is going the other way21:27
zethokay21:27
zethcool21:27
zethI need to fix some errors in the abstracts21:27
zethThe problem is going to come on tuesday21:28
pinnerzeth: in the talk_build directory, ./build_talks.sh live sched, AFAIR21:28
paul_boddieAll that "we must make stuff in China" thing is frequently more motivated by suits wanting to "maximise shareholder return" than other more genuine business reasons, I would argue.21:28
zethspeakers who are not on the europython improve list, will suddenly bring up problems with their slot21:28
zethmaybe we just call it done when it is done?21:29
zethIs it worth emailing speakers first with the timetable?21:29
zethI think that might be bad idea though21:29
paul_boddieWell, the announcement is just to let people know what is being spoken about, not the precise path through the conference venue that they will need to take.21:30
zethit would invite people to pick the whole thing apart21:30
pinnerzeth: moreati did that already21:30
zethah cool21:30
paul_boddieSo, we could more or less announce it now (or on June 1st). The moving of talks could still take place.21:30
pinnerthe time table page says that it will change before the conf21:31
pinnerpaul_boddie June 1 would be fine21:31
Taggnostris it possible to edit the talk abstract and the speaker profile?21:33
pinnerone thing I forgot: Yusdi is happy to do the timetable again. But he may not be able to come this year. He's left school:they paid for him last year. he put a lot of work in and I'd like to offer him free entrance21:33
paul_boddieYes, he did an amazing job. I think he deserves free entrance.21:34
pinnerzeth: can you answer Taggnostr?21:35
zethTaggnostr: yes21:36
zethTaggnostr: well possible for me21:36
zethpinner: cool21:36
paul_boddieTaggnostr, zeth: self-service editing, I guess.21:37
Taggnostrso if I want to change something I should ask you (or some of the other organizers), right?21:37
zethyeah21:37
zethwe never got around to making it user editable21:37
pinnerTaggnostr: I think zeth was going to give speakers access to their talks and bios on the Django system, but I don't know where he's got to.21:37
Taggnostrthat would be nice21:38
zethwell the problem is not people editing them21:38
zethbut that we never got around to giving out usernames and passwords21:38
zethnot much point doing it now21:38
zethsince next year's Europython will bin the whole lot and do their own thing21:38
* pinner needs to go, and apologises for his incompetence in being late21:39
zethhave a nice night21:39
ghumgn8!21:39
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pinnerzeth: I hope not, but we shall use it for PyCon UK anyway21:39
pinnergood night all!21:39
zethpinner: that is a good point21:40
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zethTaggnostr: did you have some changes?21:41
Taggnostrzeth, yes, let me check21:43
zethjust type them over IRC here and I will add them21:43
* paul_boddie is leaving.21:44
paul_boddieSee you all!21:44
zethnight paul_boddie21:44
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