| *** lenscape_ has quit IRC | 01:13 | |
| *** Martin_Hellwig has left #europython | 02:00 | |
| *** ccm|mac has joined #europython | 03:34 | |
| *** Tv has quit IRC | 04:48 | |
| *** hajs has quit IRC | 05:27 | |
| *** hajs has joined #europython | 05:27 | |
| *** Tv has joined #europython | 07:33 | |
| *** Tv has quit IRC | 07:40 | |
| *** Tv has joined #europython | 07:56 | |
| *** Tv1 has joined #europython | 08:15 | |
| *** Tv has quit IRC | 08:15 | |
| *** ccm|mac has quit IRC | 08:38 | |
| *** ccm|mac has joined #europython | 08:38 | |
| *** ccm|mac_ has joined #europython | 08:40 | |
| *** ccm|mac has quit IRC | 08:40 | |
| *** Tv2 has joined #europython | 10:15 | |
| *** Tv1 has quit IRC | 10:22 | |
| *** MrTopf has joined #europython | 11:57 | |
| *** ccm|mac_ has quit IRC | 13:35 | |
| *** lenscape_ has joined #europython | 16:07 | |
| *** zeth has joined #europython | 19:02 | |
| zeth | Hello everyone | 19:02 |
|---|---|---|
| *** qwright has joined #europython | 19:05 | |
| *** pedronis has joined #europython | 19:05 | |
| zeth | Hello! | 19:14 |
| qwright | hi zeth!! | 19:14 |
| *** Martin_Hellwig has joined #europython | 19:15 | |
| *** dboddie_office has joined #europython | 19:16 | |
| dboddie_office | Hello everyone! | 19:16 |
| zeth | Hi dboddie_office! | 19:17 |
| *** Martin_Hellwig has left #europython | 19:19 | |
| dboddie_office | zeth: Ready for another EuroPython? ;-) | 19:19 |
| *** Martin_Hellwig has joined #europython | 19:23 | |
| Martin_Hellwig | hi everyone | 19:23 |
| dboddie_office | Martin_Hellwig: Hi! | 19:23 |
| Martin_Hellwig | the meeting starts in 5 right? | 19:24 |
| zeth | yes | 19:27 |
| zeth | dboddie_office: we try our best ;) | 19:27 |
| zeth | Meeting begins now in fact | 19:28 |
| Martin_Hellwig | like a proper meeting ;-) | 19:28 |
| zeth | So anyway, I am Zeth, 2008 europython was my first one | 19:28 |
| zeth | I volunteered/was volunteered by John to help | 19:28 |
| zeth | and this year it is here in Birmingham | 19:29 |
| zeth | God's own city ;) | 19:29 |
| zeth | maybe other people like to introduce themselves while we wait for anyone else? | 19:29 |
| Martin_Hellwig | okay I'll have a go :-) | 19:29 |
| Martin_Hellwig | I am Martin P. Hellwig from DCUK Technologies LTD | 19:30 |
| *** pboddie has joined #europython | 19:30 | |
| Martin_Hellwig | I have no experience at all with conferences but my boss (actually wife) said I should help out :-) | 19:30 |
| Martin_Hellwig | so here I am, we are located in Nuneaton which is very near Birmingham | 19:31 |
| Martin_Hellwig | thats about it I guess :-) | 19:31 |
| zeth | cool | 19:31 |
| zeth | have we ever met? I assume not | 19:31 |
| Martin_Hellwig | Probably not, I moved recently from the Netherlands to the UK | 19:31 |
| zeth | cool | 19:32 |
| zeth | we had a good dutch turnout at our UK conferences that we ran | 19:32 |
| *** pinner has joined #europython | 19:32 | |
| zeth | so hoping for lots of dutch people for Europython | 19:32 |
| pinner | Good evening all | 19:32 |
| Martin_Hellwig | Yes Birmingham is easily doable from the Netherlands | 19:32 |
| zeth | evening | 19:32 |
| zeth | pinner: we are introducing ourselves | 19:32 |
| qwright | evening | 19:32 |
| pinner | sorry to be late - technical problems | 19:33 |
| Martin_Hellwig | good evening | 19:33 |
| qwright | haha! | 19:33 |
| pinner | Welcome, Martin! | 19:33 |
| Martin_Hellwig | Thank you | 19:33 |
| pedronis | Hello | 19:33 |
| pinner | Hi Samuele | 19:33 |
| pinner | Is everyone happy with the agenda? | 19:34 |
| zeth | Does anyone know if we are expecting anyone else? | 19:34 |
| Martin_Hellwig | Bit confused about point 1 :-) | 19:34 |
| pinner | Samuele: are we expecting lac and jacob22 | 19:34 |
| pedronis | pinner: no idea, I'm just sort of back from a vacation in the US, haven't seen/heard them yet | 19:35 |
| pinner | Martin_Hellwig: Apologies from people unable to attend. I have one, from Richard Taylor | 19:35 |
| Martin_Hellwig | ah okay | 19:35 |
| *** fuzzyman has joined #europython | 19:35 | |
| pinner | We'll wait a few minutes for them, then | 19:35 |
| pinner | Hello Michael | 19:35 |
| fuzzyman | Hi - I gotta grab a coffee - so back in 5 (sorry) | 19:36 |
| fuzzyman | just got home | 19:36 |
| pinner | Meantime, I've just put up a page at http://europython.eu/EuroPython2009 | 19:36 |
| zeth | pinner and qwright would you like to introduce yourselves? | 19:36 |
| dboddie_office | Quick, assign all duties to fuzzyman while he's away! | 19:36 |
| fuzzyman | :-) | 19:36 |
| *** nickbooker has joined #europython | 19:37 | |
| pinner | OK, I'm John Pinner, I chaired PyCon UK 2007 and 2008 and helped with past EP's. I'm the local organiser for EP 2009. | 19:37 |
| pinner | hello nick | 19:37 |
| zeth | nickbooker: please introduce yourself also | 19:38 |
| nickbooker | hello. I'm Nick Booker, and work for Clocksoft with John. I also helped with Pycon UK the last 2 years. | 19:38 |
| qwright | I'm Quentin Wright, involved in sponsorship and the Tech Team for several PyCon UK's | 19:38 |
| pinner | If you can look at the EuroPython2009 page, that could form a basis for discussions this evening. | 19:39 |
| zeth | since the introductions have become more serious, I was the vice-chair for the 2 PyConUKs also | 19:39 |
| zeth | fuzzyman who is making coffee was also one of us from PyconUK | 19:40 |
| MrTopf | Hi there | 19:40 |
| dboddie_office | MrTopf: Introduce yourself! | 19:40 |
| MrTopf | why? everybody should know me!!!! ;-) | 19:40 |
| pinner | hello Christian | 19:40 |
| MrTopf | I am Christian Scholz from Germany, usually doing social media stuff at such conferences, besides that you can find me at http://mrtopf.de/blog | 19:41 |
| MrTopf | Hi pinner | 19:41 |
| MrTopf | Hi dboddie_office :) | 19:41 |
| pinner | OK, shall we start? | 19:41 |
| zeth | yup | 19:41 |
| Martin_Hellwig | ack | 19:41 |
| * MrTopf hopes for streaming-capable network at the next conf :) | 19:41 | |
| zeth | network at PyConUK last year was excellent again, if we have similar setup then that should not be a problem | 19:42 |
| MrTopf | cool | 19:42 |
| pinner | Item 1: Apologies. Just one from me: Richard Taylor. But he volunteered to do the signage. | 19:42 |
| pinner | Any more apologies? | 19:42 |
| pinner | OK, silence is golden. Item 2: Proposed schedule. | 19:43 |
| pinner | Mr Ghum thought that having a deadline of April 1 for submisssions would not be taken seriously | 19:43 |
| Martin_Hellwig | I agree on that | 19:44 |
| dboddie_office | That's just a detail. Is the start of April a good deadline? | 19:44 |
| fuzzyman | (back) | 19:44 |
| MrTopf | I think if we announce it April 1st it wouldn't be taken serious | 19:44 |
| fuzzyman | Jonathan Hartley would like to be involved but is unable to attend this meeting | 19:45 |
| pinner | Make it Sunday 5th April? | 19:45 |
| fuzzyman | Sounds fine to me if it leaves us enough planning time | 19:45 |
| dboddie_office | pinner: Sounds good. | 19:45 |
| Martin_Hellwig | 4 months should be enough | 19:45 |
| pinner | fuzzyman: we'll find plent for tartley to do in due course! | 19:45 |
| dboddie_office | pboddie: Do you have the past schedules to hand? | 19:46 |
| qwright | Easter is 10/11/12/13 April | 19:46 |
| pinner | April 5th is early by past EP standards, but I'm keen that we have a schedule published earlier than usual, otherwise delegates don't know what they're spending their money on | 19:46 |
| Martin_Hellwig | any important football match during those dates (somehow this is important in the UK)? | 19:47 |
| MrTopf | I guess it should also have the possibility of moving it a bit later | 19:47 |
| zeth | yes, and better to start early in case things slip, if we start late and slip then it falls apart | 19:47 |
| pboddie | http://www.europython.org/Planning/Timetable | 19:47 |
| pinner | Martin_Hellwig: not as important as drinking tes ;) | 19:47 |
| MrTopf | yep | 19:47 |
| pinner | sorry, tea | 19:47 |
| Martin_Hellwig | :-) | 19:47 |
| dboddie_office | pboddie: Then talk submission start needs to be earlier than last year. | 19:48 |
| MrTopf | ok, deadline shouldn't be during teatime | 19:48 |
| zeth | dboddie_office: I have started setting up the submission system today | 19:48 |
| zeth | should be okay by december 14th | 19:48 |
| pinner | The proposal for CFP is 14th December | 19:48 |
| dboddie_office | zeth, pinner: Just in time for the holidays. :-) | 19:49 |
| zeth | well I can get it done by 14th December if it is basically the same as last year but in django as people requested | 19:49 |
| zeth | otherwise will need more time for some other idea | 19:49 |
| qwright | talk submission last year closed on 2nd June | 19:49 |
| pinner | Plenty of time to do your talk submission over the holidays. | 19:49 |
| dboddie_office | I think it's worth it. Getting going again after the New Year is difficult. | 19:50 |
| zeth | The fields will be similar as this http://pyconuk.org/submit.html | 19:50 |
| zeth | but in Europython stylesheet | 19:50 |
| zeth | if people are happy with that kind of thing then it can be done by 14th | 19:50 |
| pinner | zeth: I think the limiting factor on 14th December is not the talks submission systems, but Tim doing the website design and us populating it. | 19:50 |
| pinner | Are we agreed with the schedule, with Talks Submissions deadline of 5th April? | 19:51 |
| qwright | 2009 is two weeks earlier than 2008 which was 7th to 12th July | 19:51 |
| pboddie | By the way, I read somewhere that python.org doesn't use Pyramid any more, but maybe I just skimmed a message incorrectly. | 19:51 |
| fuzzyman | pboddie: I think you are correct that pyramid is no longer used | 19:52 |
| *** Martin_Hellwig1 has joined #europython | 19:53 | |
| *** jacob22 has joined #europython | 19:53 | |
| pinner | Hi jacob | 19:53 |
| jacob22 | Hi, sorry about being late. I had another meeting. | 19:53 |
| dboddie_office | pinner: I think the 5th April deadline is fine. We hope to get things done earlier this year. | 19:53 |
| pboddie | pinner: Earlier is better, and it's not much earlier than the *planned* deadline from last year, anyway. | 19:54 |
| pinner | I've just checked with Tim Parkin, Pyramid is no longer used, It uses macro templates scripted. Tim hopefully will join us soon. | 19:54 |
| zeth | it must be earlier than last year, no offence but the pyconuk seems to be organised ahead of europython normally, and pyconuk was in september | 19:55 |
| pinner | OK, in the absence of other comments let's accept the amended schedule (ie talks changed 5th April), it can always be fine tuned later. | 19:56 |
| pinner | Ready for Item 3: Future meetings? | 19:56 |
| zeth | yup | 19:56 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | yes, what's wrong with e-mail? | 19:57 |
| pinner | Some people (me included) would prefer VoIP meetings to IRC, I think it's worth a try. | 19:57 |
| fuzzyman | I would much prefer IRC | 19:57 |
| *** Martin_Hellwig has quit IRC | 19:57 | |
| dboddie_office | Martin votes with his feet. :-) | 19:57 |
| pinner | Martin_Hellwig1: we'll use that as well. Seeing that you have a bad connection, it may be as well ;) | 19:58 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | still hre | 19:58 |
| zeth | in the UK python planning meetings we used Voip, and I preferred it to IRC | 19:58 |
| zeth | you had a much clearer sense of who people are and if they are in the meeting | 19:58 |
| dboddie_office | I think we can do both. After all, it's useful to discuss some things textually. | 19:58 |
| fuzzyman | we did struggle with VOIP though - the quality was never much cop | 19:58 |
| *** tim_ has joined #europython | 19:58 | |
| zeth | no thats true | 19:58 |
| tim_ | ho! | 19:58 |
| zeth | but it was not orchestral music | 19:58 |
| pinner | Hello Tim! | 19:58 |
| zeth | hi tim_ | 19:58 |
| pboddie | I'm happy with IRC. If VoIP were to be used, I'd want a real phone endpoint which uses a non-special number, mostly because I can call the UK for nothing on those numbers. | 19:59 |
| pinner | Tim, we're discussing whether to try VoIP for meeting, or stick with IRC, or both | 19:59 |
| tim_ | I prefer IRC for these things but then I can type fast | 19:59 |
| tim_ | and don't mind longer meetings can be multitasked | 19:59 |
| fuzzyman | IRC for PyCon US planning seems to work very well | 19:59 |
| zeth | Well I personally found the Europython IRC planning meetings much slower and more time consuming, but maybe it is different since we have agenda this time | 20:00 |
| qwright | good for painting sheds? | 20:00 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | with the choice between voip and IRC I prefer IRC | 20:00 |
| pinner | Let's take a vote, do we try VoIP? | 20:00 |
| tim_ | You have to be better at managing the meeting with IRC definitely ... an agenda is always handy and someone working as a chair helps | 20:00 |
| pinner | +1 from me | 20:00 |
| qwright | yes | 20:00 |
| pedronis | -1 from me | 20:01 |
| jacob22 | abstain | 20:01 |
| zeth | I think I have lost this argument, but I think in VOIP you actually get things done | 20:01 |
| fuzzyman | -1 from me | 20:01 |
| nickbooker | abstain | 20:01 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | -1 | 20:01 |
| dboddie_office | 0 from me (we can try it, if you want) | 20:01 |
| pboddie | +0 | 20:01 |
| tim_ | abstain | 20:01 |
| MrTopf | abstain | 20:01 |
| zeth | +1 from me | 20:01 |
| zeth | so we are at 2 + -3 + 0 + 0 | 20:02 |
| pinner | +1 from q | 20:02 |
| zeth | oh yes | 20:02 |
| zeth | so we are at 3 + -3 + 0 + 0 _ 0 | 20:02 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | all square then, any with the final? | 20:02 |
| pboddie | Technically it was int("yes") from q. ;-) | 20:02 |
| pinner | so it's about level | 20:02 |
| zeth | what are the objections from anti-Voip people? | 20:02 |
| zeth | what are the concerns? | 20:02 |
| tim_ | I should probably add that I'm less likeley to make meetings over VOIP than I am with IRC as I can multitask and work with IRC from anywhere | 20:02 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | quite simple, Internet quality in the UK is not what I am used to the Netherlands | 20:03 |
| zeth | well yeah, but does multitasking make a quick and efficent meeting? | 20:03 |
| pedronis | it requires too much commitment and setup, it really depends whether you think you need casual partecipant or not | 20:03 |
| dboddie_office | If it helps groups of people get specific things organised then there's no reason not to use it. I don't mind summarizing spoken stuff on IRC. | 20:03 |
| tim_ | with VOIP I have to be at home and prepared as I never use it for anything else | 20:03 |
| MrTopf | what sort of VoiP btw? skype or SIP stuff? | 20:03 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | and my environment is a bit noisey | 20:03 |
| qwright | sip | 20:03 |
| pinner | SIP | 20:03 |
| fuzzyman | VOIP quality less, text has lots of advantages over voice, IRC can be done on a lower quality connection | 20:03 |
| zeth | We used SIP for pyconuk meetings | 20:03 |
| MrTopf | then I first need to set lots of things up ;-) | 20:03 |
| fuzzyman | VOIP makes it harder to multitask | 20:03 |
| MrTopf | like probably some firewall stuff | 20:04 |
| fuzzyman | IRC makes it easier to review what has been said and who has agreed to do what | 20:04 |
| zeth | but multitasking makes meetings go on forever and no one commits to anything | 20:04 |
| fuzzyman | I disagre | 20:04 |
| fuzzyman | I still multitasked in PyconUK meetings | 20:04 |
| fuzzyman | and PyCon US IRC meetings are fine | 20:04 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | that is an organisational problem imo not something which is solved by either voip or irc | 20:04 |
| fuzzyman | we get things done and commit to things | 20:04 |
| jacob22 | zeth: I disagree about that. If you have an agenda and a chairman, you can be very efficient on IRC. | 20:04 |
| zeth | Okay, IRC with chairing seems to be the way to go | 20:05 |
| fuzzyman | a text medium is much easier to work out who has agreed to what | 20:05 |
| pinner | OK, we stay with IRC for now, those that want VoIP can set it up and give it a go outside of the main IRC meetings. If it looks good we can revisit it. | 20:05 |
| zeth | if pinner is okay making the agendas? | 20:05 |
| pinner | zeth: OK | 20:05 |
| tim_ | pI agree with Jacob - you need to be organised with IRC. | 20:05 |
| zeth | IRC is potentially more inclusive, but I worry that it makes people hard to pin down | 20:06 |
| zeth | Anyhow, I think we can move on? | 20:06 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | please | 20:06 |
| pinner | zeth: should be easier to pin them down 'cos it's recorded as text. | 20:06 |
| pinner | We stick with IRC for now, OK? | 20:07 |
| pboddie | OK. | 20:07 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | ack | 20:07 |
| pinner | but before we leave meetings, how about frequency? | 20:07 |
| *** Tv2 is now known as Tv | 20:07 | |
| zeth | once a week for half an hour after new year? | 20:07 |
| pinner | I suggest every two weeks now, and increase the frequency later if we need to. | 20:08 |
| zeth | is that too ambitious? | 20:08 |
| zeth | ok | 20:08 |
| zeth | that makes sense | 20:08 |
| fuzzyman | ok - this is generally a bad day though | 20:08 |
| tim_ | once every two weeks ok for me.. | 20:08 |
| fuzzyman | frequency is fine | 20:08 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | is it possible to do it an hour later? | 20:08 |
| zeth | we should maybe use the nasty table website thing? | 20:08 |
| fuzzyman | yeah - although you should write a better one in Django coz the UI for that sucks | 20:09 |
| zeth | later is better for me but not for everything I assume | 20:09 |
| pinner | zeth: we need a regular time spot | 20:09 |
| zeth | fuzzyman: clearly since you identified it by "nasty table website thing" | 20:09 |
| zeth | ;) | 20:09 |
| pinner | the time has always been a problem, especially with the different time zones. | 20:09 |
| fuzzyman | I'm an anomaly I'm afraid Tuesday 5.30 - 6.30 is okish - any other day I am only available from 8.00pm | 20:09 |
| zeth | yeah, it gets pretty late in the east | 20:10 |
| qwright | So go for Tuesdays? | 20:10 |
| zeth | it is two-three hours later than UK in Europe | 20:10 |
| zeth | in eastern europe | 20:10 |
| pinner | EP has usually been 1800 hours CET, which is awkward for us in the UK | 20:10 |
| zeth | what is CET again? | 20:10 |
| pboddie | We could move it one hour later. If I recall correctly, it was Aiste who wanted it earlier. | 20:10 |
| zeth | GMT + 1 ? | 20:10 |
| pinner | central european time | 20:10 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | okay then consider my request not requested :-) | 20:10 |
| zeth | so we have 6pm and then we lose fuzzyman at 6.30 | 20:11 |
| zeth | give us an incentive to finish | 20:11 |
| pinner | How about if we change to 1900 CET, 1800 GMT ? | 20:11 |
| zeth | yup (sorry I was in GMT) | 20:12 |
| fuzzyman | I can be there for part of that at least | 20:12 |
| qwright | So we are saying: alternate Tuesdays at 1800 GMT | 20:12 |
| fuzzyman | if we stick with Tuesday | 20:12 |
| pinner | qwright: yes | 20:12 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | Fine with me | 20:12 |
| zeth | cool | 20:13 |
| zeth | can we move on? Any objections to that time? | 20:13 |
| pinner | OK, Tuesdays at 1800 GMT it is | 20:13 |
| pinner | Item 4: website format | 20:13 |
| pinner | Have you all looked at http://europython.eu/EuroPython2009 | 20:13 |
| fuzzyman | there now | 20:14 |
| pinner | Tim, can you explain the proposal? | 20:14 |
| fuzzyman | looks ok :-) | 20:14 |
| tim_ | yeah | 20:14 |
| tim_ | I thought it would make sense to reuse the python website engine | 20:15 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | to inexperienced to comment :-( | 20:15 |
| tim_ | it appears to be useable by lots of non-webby people | 20:15 |
| tim_ | and builds static html files | 20:15 |
| zeth | I like last year's logo, can we just get the year changed? | 20:15 |
| tim_ | the website design can be rearranged to make it look suitably different (but pleasingly familiar) | 20:15 |
| pinner | tim_: but still has a wiki section? | 20:15 |
| pinner | we found the wiki good last year | 20:16 |
| tim_ | The python wiki is I think the same and hence we can use the same wiki skin .. | 20:16 |
| MrTopf | ah, the annual technology change :) | 20:16 |
| pinner | zeth: I've asked zack to update the logo, no response in last 10 days yet. | 20:16 |
| tim_ | @MrTopf - not really | 20:16 |
| zeth | Yes I think keep the wiki at or near the front, and then have the other pages in our own stuff again | 20:17 |
| pboddie | pinner, zeth: Maybe we should send Zack something as a "thank you" if not already done? | 20:17 |
| tim_ | I'm suggesting using what has worked with python.org | 20:17 |
| pinner | MrTopf: not really, we just updating it | 20:17 |
| qwright | Do we want sponsor's logos on the front page - europython 2008 had none - compare pyconuk 2008 | 20:17 |
| MrTopf | ok | 20:17 |
| tim_ | using static html for the main site built with rest files | 20:17 |
| tim_ | and skin the wiki up with a similar html skin | 20:17 |
| zeth | yeah, we have a script for that already | 20:17 |
| tim_ | the python.org html has been tested in every browser going.. | 20:17 |
| tim_ | and seems pretty good.. | 20:18 |
| MrTopf | maybe we can get the source files from zack so we can update it ourselves? | 20:18 |
| zeth | we have a bash script, and we have a python rst version of it | 20:18 |
| zeth | that builds website from static content | 20:18 |
| pinner | pboddie: he did win the competition... and I thanked him | 20:18 |
| tim_ | can you reskin it easily zeth? | 20:18 |
| zeth | yeah | 20:18 |
| tim_ | should be simple to use the python.org html with then... | 20:19 |
| zeth | the bash version is just sed, the python version is just docutils | 20:19 |
| jacob22 | tim_: I think this sounds great. Static html files are music to my ears. | 20:19 |
| tim_ | what about building menus? | 20:19 |
| pinner | tim_: sounds good, when could you have the prototype? | 20:19 |
| tim_ | does it include something simple for left hand nested menu? | 20:19 |
| zeth | my python version has automatic navigation | 20:19 |
| tim_ | cool.. | 20:19 |
| fuzzyman | tim_: is the build process and needed dependencies well documented? | 20:19 |
| zeth | but lets move on, we are getting a little hung up on which script generates the static pages | 20:20 |
| tim_ | if you could use the python html (I'll send the template files used for the python.org website) | 20:20 |
| tim_ | I'll update the css to put new logo and style on it | 20:20 |
| zeth | We agree to have some static pages and a wiki? | 20:20 |
| pinner | zeth: I think so, let's vote | 20:20 |
| tim_ | makes sense to me - use what we have with some proven html - update the css | 20:20 |
| pinner | +1 from me | 20:20 |
| tim_ | +1 | 20:20 |
| zeth | +1 | 20:20 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | +1 | 20:20 |
| nickbooker | +1 | 20:20 |
| fuzzyman | It sounds fine but I have no idea what the alternatives are | 20:21 |
| fuzzyman | if we have people committed to making this work then +1 | 20:21 |
| qwright | +1 | 20:21 |
| zeth | alternative would be to use a CMS or build something in Django | 20:21 |
| pboddie | So is the front page like python.org, then? | 20:21 |
| tim_ | @fuzzyman - build a cms (alhough the real task would be "get someone to maintain cms") | 20:21 |
| zeth | or to not have a website, send out pigeons | 20:21 |
| fuzzyman | there is a lot to be said for static html | 20:21 |
| pinner | zeth: no way, from past experience | 20:21 |
| fuzzyman | although I like pigeons | 20:21 |
| tim_ | @pboddie - we can customise the front page easily | 20:21 |
| zeth | I voted for static html | 20:21 |
| qwright | I'd say go for static everytime | 20:21 |
| tim_ | @pboddie - pigeons don't validate - we should use xpigeons | 20:22 |
| fuzzyman | +1 based on you guys doing the work (or explaining the system to anyone who has to modify the content) | 20:22 |
| zeth | lol | 20:22 |
| MrTopf | +1 | 20:22 |
| pinner | OK, decision time : it's static HTM + wiki. Tim will do the CSS | 20:22 |
| pboddie | Or perhaps, structurally, like the PyCon UK arrangement now. | 20:22 |
| pboddie | ...I suppose? | 20:22 |
| MrTopf | it would be good if we can also embed streams etc. later but that's simple embed-Tags | 20:22 |
| tim_ | javascript ? | 20:22 |
| zeth | Well we can go with our static for now, and if anyone wants to do dynamic for the year after they can extend it in that direction | 20:22 |
| MrTopf | yes | 20:22 |
| tim_ | simple ajax calls? | 20:22 |
| MrTopf | same for RSS | 20:23 |
| MrTopf | well, it's usually hosted elsewhere so we only need to put the embed tag or the provided JS on the page | 20:23 |
| tim_ | if someone doesn't have a js browser - point them at the original rss feed | 20:23 |
| MrTopf | for RSS we might find some useful widget | 20:23 |
| zeth | MrTopf: that should be fine | 20:23 |
| zeth | we had an RSS feed in PyconUK, not sure if anyone read it | 20:23 |
| pinner | Let's give the complications a miss for now, just a basic site that works. | 20:23 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | agree we need content first | 20:24 |
| tim_ | @zeth - could you point me at a repo with the BoR scripts? | 20:24 |
| MrTopf | zeth: at least I think there should be some button where you can subscribe to information | 20:24 |
| fuzzyman | zeth: if we have a news blog then we will need rss | 20:24 |
| zeth | well sticking MrTopf 's embed tag into our /templates/ file is not beyond us | 20:24 |
| fuzzyman | but for news we can use wordpress or blogger | 20:24 |
| pinner | We don't want to get into the sort of complications that have plagued other conferences | 20:24 |
| MrTopf | we have a blog already setup | 20:24 |
| fuzzyman | ok | 20:24 |
| MrTopf | and a twitter account | 20:24 |
| MrTopf | I would propose we keep that | 20:24 |
| fuzzyman | great | 20:24 |
| MrTopf | might have 1 or 2 subscribers | 20:24 |
| pboddie | Agreed with MrTopf. | 20:24 |
| zeth | Agreed, no need to change that now | 20:25 |
| MrTopf | well, 19 subscribers | 20:25 |
| zeth | I do have a nice Django blog software I use, but I vote to keep the current one | 20:25 |
| MrTopf | we should work on making it more | 20:25 |
| pinner | OK, we know what we're going for: static HTML + wiki, add blogs, streams, whatever later. | 20:25 |
| zeth | ok, so I explained the talks submissions earlier | 20:26 |
| zeth | we all agree to that part of the proposal? | 20:26 |
| pinner | end of that discussion for tonight, OK? | 20:26 |
| tim_ | @pinner: can somene send me the bash/sed/awk/vi/ex stuff to take a browse at? | 20:26 |
| pinner | tim_: yes | 20:26 |
| zeth | tim_: I can do that | 20:26 |
| jacob22 | If you need a good shopping cart implementation for bookings, I have written one: http://sourceforge.net/projects/rawcart/ | 20:26 |
| tim_ | ta | 20:26 |
| qwright | We have one that works already!! | 20:27 |
| jacob22 | qwright: Ok. | 20:27 |
| zeth | Interesting | 20:27 |
| zeth | maybe we take a look regarding the year after | 20:27 |
| pinner | jacob22: I'll take a look | 20:27 |
| qwright | 2011? | 20:27 |
| zeth | 2010, I think we want to keep things as much the same as we can in 2009 so we can spend our time organising new things | 20:28 |
| zeth | I mean things we have been bad at before | 20:28 |
| zeth | like publicity | 20:28 |
| MrTopf | (19 subscribers... ;-) ) | 20:28 |
| pinner | tim_: can you give me date fro your prototype, it affects the 14th December Announcement and CFP date | 20:28 |
| pinner | tim_:? | 20:29 |
| tim_ | If you can get me the assets and what you need on the home page | 20:29 |
| MrTopf | I will send a list of things we can do to reach people and build a community to the list hopefully soon | 20:30 |
| tim_ | I'll tweak the css - can someone help with plugging the html into the bash/sed thing? | 20:30 |
| pinner | tim_: I'll call you after the meeting | 20:30 |
| tim_ | k | 20:30 |
| pinner | OK, Item 5: Tasks and Responsibilities | 20:30 |
| qwright | What did you have in mind? | 20:31 |
| pinner | Referring to the europython.eu/EuroPython2009 page, I think the most important thing is Publicity/Marketing | 20:32 |
| pinner | Have we any professionals here? | 20:32 |
| pboddie | We usually have a long list of "targets" for spamming, but it'd be good to see others doing some of that spamming. | 20:32 |
| qwright | This will take several people to carry out - maybe everyone contributing their bit in domains that they are familiar with | 20:32 |
| pboddie | http://www.europython.org/Planning/Publicity | 20:33 |
| pinner | There's no substitute for personal contact | 20:33 |
| MrTopf | well, I can just give you some things on what can be done using social media. | 20:33 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | I can mail on the NLUUG list, but that's about it | 20:34 |
| MrTopf | on twitter we have 62 followers | 20:34 |
| jacob22 | We should do more marketing at the various Pycons and possibly also the ACCU. | 20:34 |
| zeth | tim_: I can help with the plugging also | 20:34 |
| zeth | tim_: I can help with the plugging design into the system also | 20:35 |
| pboddie | Was "how did you find out?" part of the surveys? | 20:35 |
| zeth | #(bit behind, had phone call) | 20:35 |
| *** regebro has joined #europython | 20:35 | |
| tim_ | zeth: ta | 20:35 |
| fuzzyman | how many attendees does Europython have normally? | 20:35 |
| MrTopf | can we also reach former attendees easily? | 20:36 |
| fuzzyman | do you think there are many people who would be interested but just haven't heard of it - isn't it fairly well known? | 20:36 |
| pinner | pboddie: can't remember | 20:36 |
| zeth | I like the wiki chart | 20:36 |
| pinner | fuzzyman: 220 last year I think | 20:36 |
| zeth | we had 220 at europython but that was in the baltics | 20:36 |
| pinner | fuzzyman: yes, lots haven't heard of it | 20:36 |
| qwright | We have the pycon attendees to e-mail | 20:36 |
| zeth | in the UK we shoukd aim for more | 20:36 |
| qwright | I meant pyconuk | 20:37 |
| fuzzyman | ok | 20:37 |
| zeth | The UK is easier and more common to get to than Lithuania | 20:37 |
| tim_ | offtopic: see http://www.eventwax.com/ - possibly useful event management? | 20:37 |
| zeth | so we should expect more | 20:37 |
| pinner | but we need to be reaching the people who don't know about it, not the one's who've come before | 20:37 |
| MrTopf | but we also shouldn't forget about those who were there before | 20:37 |
| zeth | so we should maybe all be publicity officers | 20:37 |
| zeth | and track who we have contacted in the wiki chart | 20:38 |
| pinner | zeth: yes, but someone need to mastermind it | 20:38 |
| zeth | that is true | 20:38 |
| pinner | any volunteers ? | 20:38 |
| pinner | deafening silence | 20:39 |
| pinner | any mugs? | 20:39 |
| zeth | this is where VOIP allows people not too escape | 20:39 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | we'll I would take it if nobody else wants it but I am crap at it | 20:39 |
| zeth | Martin_Hellwig1 +1 | 20:39 |
| pinner | zeth: I'm not sure we'd have a different result. | 20:40 |
| zeth | We have Martin_Hellwig1 | 20:40 |
| zeth | so everything is fine | 20:40 |
| pboddie | What kind of masterminding do we need, exactly? | 20:40 |
| pinner | crap is better than nothing, I can help, who else will? | 20:40 |
| pinner | pboddie: whip cracking I suspect | 20:40 |
| zeth | The publicity mastermind needs to talk to the rest of us, and track who we are emailing | 20:40 |
| zeth | so that everywhere gets emailed | 20:41 |
| pinner | and assign responsibilities | 20:41 |
| *** tim_ has quit IRC | 20:41 | |
| zeth | yup | 20:41 |
| pboddie | Surely people just need to manage their own channels and agree to post out information, even talk to people, when we have something to tell them. | 20:41 |
| fuzzyman | great | 20:41 |
| zeth | well, the first year in PyconUK we had such a post, and it worked much better with it | 20:41 |
| MrTopf | we should also have information ready everybody can use and we can tell people then to spread the word themselves on their channels/blogs etc. | 20:41 |
| qwright | for starters we need a conference announcement by the 14th December | 20:41 |
| pinner | will everyone please mail Martin with an idea of what they can do. | 20:42 |
| zeth | okay so was Martin_Hellwig1 the only candidate for publicity co-ordinater? | 20:42 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | So to sum up my responsibility is to list all the comm channels, make sure they are used | 20:42 |
| pinner | Yes, thanks Martin. | 20:42 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | and be beaten afterwards when nobody shows up right? | 20:42 |
| zeth | yup, find out people's comm channels too | 20:42 |
| zeth | yup | 20:42 |
| fuzzyman | what is Martin's email address then | 20:42 |
| fuzzyman | ? | 20:42 |
| pinner | Let's move on | 20:42 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | martin.hellwig@dcuktec.org | 20:42 |
| zeth | great | 20:43 |
| pinner | Keynote Speakers | 20:43 |
| zeth | so what other jobs do we need? | 20:43 |
| pinner | Guido has said he can't make it | 20:43 |
| dboddie_office | I think Cory Doctorow is an interesting choice. | 20:43 |
| zeth | I personally like it when the keynote speakers are not completely on-topic. | 20:43 |
| MrTopf | Cory would be great | 20:44 |
| fuzzyman | I have a contact wit h Cory | 20:44 |
| zeth | cool | 20:44 |
| fuzzyman | I will ask him | 20:44 |
| pinner | So will people get ideas together for the next meeting | 20:44 |
| zeth | fuzzyman: cheers! | 20:44 |
| pinner | and put them on the EuroPython2009 page | 20:44 |
| fuzzyman | pinner: ideas for what? | 20:44 |
| pinner | fuzzyman: keynote speakers | 20:44 |
| zeth | pinner: what is the chance of Tony Hoare coming?: | 20:44 |
| fuzzyman | ok | 20:44 |
| zeth | pinner: didn't we ask hin before? | 20:44 |
| zeth | what is scheduling conflict or he hated us? | 20:45 |
| fuzzyman | Simon Peyton Jones would be good | 20:45 |
| pinner | zeth: the MS man is trying | 20:45 |
| fuzzyman | or the guy who writes F# and works in Cambridge | 20:45 |
| MrTopf | Ken Robinson :) | 20:45 |
| fuzzyman | Don Symes | 20:46 |
| pinner | Let's leave keynotes for this evening, we need to be finishing soon. Put your ideas on the wiki | 20:46 |
| zeth | I think someone really out there, Jeremy Clarkson but someone like that who is free or close to free | 20:46 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | James May | 20:46 |
| fuzzyman | ok | 20:46 |
| pinner | zeth: the last thing Clarkson is : free | 20:47 |
| zeth | yeah I know | 20:47 |
| zeth | bad example | 20:47 |
| pinner | OK, sponsorship | 20:47 |
| pinner | Who wants to take hold of sponsorship? | 20:47 |
| qwright | I could have a go | 20:47 |
| dboddie_office | I'd like to put the brochure from last year into version control. | 20:47 |
| dboddie_office | Then people can dump it if they want. | 20:47 |
| dboddie_office | Or use it... | 20:47 |
| dboddie_office | qwright: Or I could send you the files. | 20:48 |
| pinner | dboddie_office: we'll use it | 20:48 |
| zeth | Lempit Opik on protecting the UK from asteroids | 20:48 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | qwright: perhaps coordinate it with me so we can send an uniform message out? | 20:48 |
| pinner | but first we need a sponsorship coordinator | 20:48 |
| dboddie_office | jacob22: Are you interested in doing sponsorship stuff again? | 20:49 |
| pinner | q has volunteered, is that OK with everyone ? | 20:49 |
| zeth | I am doing talk submissions so I rule myself out | 20:49 |
| pinner | we can all let q know who our contacts are | 20:49 |
| fuzzyman | +1 for q | 20:50 |
| zeth | q was good getting the money in PyConUK, maybe he could work with jacob22 if he has time | 20:50 |
| pboddie | Whoever ends up doing it should get access to the appropriate mailing list resources if we're still going to use them. | 20:50 |
| pinner | and he can ensure that we don't clash in our approaches | 20:50 |
| qwright | we have some from PyConUK, but could do with more. | 20:50 |
| pinner | q and jacob22 sound a good team | 20:50 |
| jacob22 | I'll be happy to assist q. | 20:51 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | ack | 20:51 |
| qwright | I'll happy to assist jacob | 20:51 |
| pinner | OK, it's q and jacob then | 20:51 |
| zeth | +1 | 20:51 |
| zeth | next unfilled job? | 20:51 |
| pinner | OK, I think that's enough for tonight | 20:51 |
| pinner | we don't need to fill any more jobs just yet | 20:52 |
| zeth | cool | 20:52 |
| qwright | Next Meeting: Tuesday 16th December 1800 GMT?? | 20:52 |
| pinner | once the announcement is made then we'll need more | 20:52 |
| fuzzyman | fine | 20:52 |
| pinner | qwright: yes | 20:52 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | pinner: would you mind making a quick summarization and send it on the maillinglist? | 20:52 |
| fuzzyman | I've added a couple of ideas for keynote speakers and will try to think of any more | 20:52 |
| pinner | Martin_Hellwig1: one of us will precis it and post on ep-improve | 20:53 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | thanks! | 20:53 |
| pinner | OK, time to close | 20:53 |
| zeth | cool, so shall we declare the meeting closed, and those that want to go can, and those that want to hang around can? | 20:53 |
| pinner | Thanks everyone for joing in! | 20:54 |
| fuzzyman | what's the URL to sign up to ep-improve? | 20:54 |
| fuzzyman | don't think I'm on the list | 20:54 |
| pboddie | http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython-improve | 20:54 |
| fuzzyman | thanks | 20:54 |
| zeth | ok, that is the only EP list I am on | 20:54 |
| MrTopf | we should have nice buttons for signing up for those lists | 20:54 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | oooh shiny buttons! | 20:55 |
| MrTopf | I can do buttons :) | 20:55 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | :-) | 20:55 |
| pinner | Good night everyone, with or without shiny buttons | 20:55 |
| zeth | lol | 20:55 |
| zeth | night pinner | 20:55 |
| MrTopf | night pinner! | 20:55 |
| qwright | see you next time | 20:55 |
| zeth | night q | 20:55 |
| Martin_Hellwig1 | goodnight, I'll have my tea now :-) | 20:55 |
| zeth | night Martin_Hellwig1 | 20:55 |
| MrTopf | heh :) | 20:55 |
| zeth | like the waltons | 20:55 |
| *** qwright has quit IRC | 20:55 | |
| *** Martin_Hellwig1 has left #europython | 20:56 | |
| MrTopf | I am just waiting for the next meeting :) | 20:56 |
| zeth | so now we are off topic, does anyone know anyone in hardware? | 20:56 |
| MrTopf | but that will indeed be skype.. | 20:56 |
| zeth | it would be fun to have some hardware person to give a keynote | 20:56 |
| fuzzyman | zeth: buy a Mac | 20:56 |
| fuzzyman | oh | 20:56 |
| MrTopf | ask Steve Jobs :) | 20:56 |
| fuzzyman | :-) | 20:56 |
| zeth | I am writing from a Macbook pro now, using Ubuntu on the mac | 20:56 |
| fuzzyman | flair enuff | 20:57 |
| zeth | I was thinking liek someone from Intel or AMD | 20:57 |
| zeth | or that openmoko man | 20:57 |
| fuzzyman | that would be cool | 20:57 |
| zeth | the guy that came up with it | 20:57 |
| fuzzyman | intel or AMD anyway | 20:57 |
| pboddie | Steve Jobs knows people in hardware: met them last time he signed a contract in Taiwan, I would imagine. | 20:57 |
| zeth | yeah a whole week of software, would be fun to hear about hardware in a keynote | 20:58 |
| zeth | this is the processor you will be running python on next year | 20:58 |
| MrTopf | that's how it starts.. next year you want a keynote about gardening then! | 20:58 |
| zeth | well last time we had one about visuasing demographic data | 20:58 |
| zeth | visualising demographic data at EP 2008 | 20:59 |
| zeth | gardening would actually be cool | 20:59 |
| MrTopf | I knew it!!! ;-) | 20:59 |
| fuzzyman | stuff gardening I'm afraid | 20:59 |
| fuzzyman | hmmm.... and visualizing demographics data for that matter... | 21:00 |
| zeth | so the BBC were PyConUK sponsors last year, maybe they could come up with someone | 21:00 |
| fuzzyman | Stephen Fry would be great | 21:00 |
| fuzzyman | he's a real techie as well | 21:00 |
| zeth | if they are being paid by the BBC, we don't have to pay them | 21:00 |
| zeth | ys | 21:00 |
| zeth | yes | 21:00 |
| zeth | Stephen Fry would be great, tell him that up to 400 open source programmers | 21:01 |
| zeth | probably all male | 21:01 |
| zeth | he would certainly come for that ;) | 21:01 |
| fuzzyman | lol | 21:01 |
| pboddie | Hans Rosling's keynote was probably the best I can remember. Even better than Alan Kay and Steven Pemberton. | 21:01 |
| MrTopf | I think Mark Shuttleworth was pretty cool, too | 21:02 |
| zeth | Dr John Pugh would be interested | 21:03 |
| MrTopf | maybe we can the next one from TED ;-) | 21:03 |
| MrTopf | we can then say that TED just makes the preselection for us | 21:03 |
| zeth | Dr John Pugh would be interesting | 21:03 |
| zeth | Dr John Pugh is English MP who is big open source advocate | 21:04 |
| fuzzyman | Charles Stross | 21:04 |
| fuzzyman | he mentions Python in his books | 21:04 |
| zeth | yeah | 21:04 |
| zeth | sci-fi author would be good | 21:04 |
| MrTopf | John Cleese would be good :-) | 21:04 |
| zeth | lol | 21:07 |
| *** Tv has quit IRC | 21:07 | |
| zeth | yeah, we need an angle though | 21:07 |
| zeth | Britney Spears is not likely to be interested | 21:07 |
| zeth | they need to actually want to meet us all | 21:07 |
| *** nickbooker has quit IRC | 21:08 | |
| zeth | Alan Cox is not so far away | 21:09 |
| *** pinner has quit IRC | 21:11 | |
| pboddie | See you in two weeks, everyone! | 21:12 |
| * pboddie is leaving. | 21:13 | |
| *** pboddie has left #europython | 21:13 | |
| *** Tv has joined #europython | 21:50 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!