| *** Aiste has quit IRC | 00:01 | |
| *** lenscape_ has quit IRC | 02:05 | |
| *** MrTopf has quit IRC | 02:06 | |
| *** MrTopf has joined #europython | 02:06 | |
| *** MrTopf has quit IRC | 02:08 | |
| *** MrTopf has joined #europython | 02:09 | |
| *** MrTopf has quit IRC | 02:27 | |
| *** lenscape_ has joined #europython | 08:55 | |
| *** ccm|mac has quit IRC | 09:03 | |
| *** ccm|mac has joined #europython | 09:18 | |
| *** sverrej has quit IRC | 10:42 | |
| *** MrTopf has joined #europython | 11:03 | |
| *** sverrej has joined #europython | 11:09 | |
| *** sverrej has quit IRC | 11:23 | |
| *** Sharebear has joined #europython | 12:41 | |
| *** edgarsj has left #europython | 13:18 | |
| *** menesis has joined #europython | 14:44 | |
| *** Aiste has joined #europython | 15:04 | |
| avn | hi Aiste | 15:10 |
|---|---|---|
| *** regebro has joined #europython | 15:15 | |
| *** mgedmin has joined #europython | 15:25 | |
| avn | mgedmin: "good morning" ? ;) | 15:45 |
| * mgedmin croaks | 15:45 | |
| tobixen | morning? what timezone are you in? ;-) | 15:51 |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 15:51 | |
| tobixen | (or how many beers did you drink yesterday?) | 15:51 |
| *** Aiste has quit IRC | 15:55 | |
| *** menesis has joined #europython | 15:57 | |
| *** Sharebear has quit IRC | 16:39 | |
| MrTopf | We are on the frontpage of http://slideshare.net | 17:05 |
| Tv | so is a hummingbird with music.. | 17:12 |
| dboddie_ | Yes, but the hummingbird is clearly trying so hard to be on the front page. :-) | 17:14 |
| *** povbot` has joined #europython | 17:21 | |
| *** pboddie has joined #europython | 17:23 | |
| MrTopf | well, we hopefully stay longer in our top spot there than the bird ;-) | 17:23 |
| pboddie | Real Estate 2.0? | 17:24 |
| pboddie | 2.0 == bubble? | 17:24 |
| MrTopf | I wonder if this is some conference :) | 17:27 |
| MrTopf | if so they wouldn't have to worry about what to discuss | 17:27 |
| MrTopf | the one on there with 7000+ views is a somewhat awful presentation | 17:28 |
| mgedmin | which one is that? | 17:29 |
| *** povbot has quit IRC | 17:37 | |
| MrTopf | the second one in the real estate one | 17:38 |
| MrTopf | real estate spotlight | 17:38 |
| dboddie_ | MrTopf: Still, they managed to get you to view it, so mission accomplished there, I think. ;-) | 17:40 |
| MrTopf | well, but I don't buy it ;-) | 17:45 |
| MrTopf | and as I understand this is some template. So if anybody wants to sell me a house with this, then good bye ;-) | 17:45 |
| MrTopf | in other news I am not using iMovie to do the videos | 17:46 |
| MrTopf | you can look in the old location for a new version of the cocos one | 17:46 |
| MrTopf | this one is a little bit problematic anyway though because of lighting conditions and small fonts | 17:46 |
| pboddie | I'll try and take a look later on. | 17:47 |
| MrTopf | now I am trying the whole day to do video #2 ;-) | 17:48 |
| MrTopf | If I wouldn't have mistyped the right dimensions it would be finished now | 17:48 |
| MrTopf | but now it needs to render again for it's 90 mins | 17:48 |
| *** sverrej has joined #europython | 18:31 | |
| *** Aiste has joined #europython | 18:48 | |
| *** sverrej has quit IRC | 19:06 | |
| *** Aiste has quit IRC | 19:07 | |
| *** ccm|mac has quit IRC | 19:30 | |
| *** HenrikV has joined #europython | 19:38 | |
| HenrikV | did anyone make a summary on the file system effort? | 19:39 |
| Tv | i should | 19:40 |
| Tv | i've been a bit too braindead -- storm fronts always do that to me | 19:41 |
| Tv | days spent fighting a headache :( | 19:41 |
| *** sverrej has joined #europython | 19:42 | |
| *** ccm|mac has joined #europython | 19:44 | |
| *** pboddie has quit IRC | 19:49 | |
| *** MrTopf has quit IRC | 20:07 | |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 20:20 | |
| tobixen | HenrikV: http://eagain.net/gitweb/?p=fs.git | 20:22 |
| tobixen | We've made an API for communicating with file-system-alike structures, and we've made an implementation for the local fs plus for an in-memory file system | 20:23 |
| tobixen | there are still some few things missing, though ... like symbolic links, modes, ownership, etc | 20:23 |
| HenrikV | Super cool | 20:24 |
| tobixen | Interfaces for FTP and tarfiles are being worked on | 20:25 |
| HenrikV | Tv, does drinking lots of water help? Also stay off coffee/tea | 20:25 |
| *** regebro has left #europython | 20:25 | |
| tobixen | I'm planning to maybe start up writing a PEP and raise some awareness on the newsgroup/mailinglist | 20:26 |
| HenrikV | I think it would be perfect for Python 3.1 track | 20:27 |
| *** sverrej_ has joined #europython | 20:38 | |
| *** sverrej has quit IRC | 20:49 | |
| *** emilis_info has quit IRC | 20:56 | |
| *** emilis_info has joined #europython | 21:00 | |
| Tv | tobixen: oh btw, your __eq__ etc class is broken | 21:10 |
| tobixen | can you prove it? ;-) | 21:11 |
| Tv | tobixen: it thinks it any two things inheriting that class that are u'/' are equal | 21:11 |
| Tv | even when one might be e.g. remote | 21:11 |
| tobixen | hm | 21:11 |
| Tv | you changed the isinstance from Path to the mixin class | 21:11 |
| Tv | self.__class__ would be better, but that makes subclasses equal Paths, which isn't automatically so | 21:12 |
| tobixen | IIRC I thought two objects to be equal if their root and pathname is the same | 21:12 |
| Tv | if they're both Paths | 21:13 |
| Tv | in this case, they're equal if they happen to use the utility methods | 21:13 |
| tobixen | if they would be different file systems, the roots would be different | 21:14 |
| Tv | i'm not sure what the root thing is, honestly | 21:15 |
| Tv | why does it need it? what's the use? | 21:16 |
| tobixen | to identify what file system an object belongs to ... the problem is that when I moved the self._pathname logics to a mixin class I could no longer test if self.other is a (_localfs).path or not | 21:18 |
| tobixen | that move was strictly not needed for the in-memory fs anyway ... I rethought it a bit. | 21:19 |
| Tv | exactly | 21:19 |
| Tv | you're moving "what class am i compatible with" to an attribute | 21:19 |
| Tv | i think that's broken, ugly and wrong ;) | 21:19 |
| tobixen | I also thought that self.root could be used for security tests ... i.e. one could add a .chroot()-method later on | 21:19 |
| Tv | doesn't belong in base fs api | 21:20 |
| Tv | i'm also less than happy about .mkdir()s new boolean args | 21:20 |
| Tv | you're forcing every single fs to implement both of them | 21:20 |
| tobixen | hm | 21:20 |
| Tv | when a utility function could solve the problem for all fs's, not pushing implementation to all of them | 21:20 |
| tobixen | you do have a valid point. I did have to duplicate two lines of code, and I was not happy with it | 21:21 |
| Tv | fs.util.maybe_mkdir, fs.util.mkdir_parents, or something | 21:21 |
| Tv | maybe change the self.root thing to if type(self) is not type(other): return NotImplemented ? | 21:22 |
| tobixen | but it should be simple to use ... if simple operations requires a utility library to be imported, it will be more difficult to use | 21:22 |
| Tv | screw subclasses, for now; it's safer to assume they are not comparable | 21:22 |
| Tv | tobixen: well how about class MyFS(object): maybe_mkdir = fs.util.maybe_mkdir | 21:23 |
| Tv | tobixen: or just splitting the functionality to different functions, providing yet another mixin | 21:24 |
| Tv | with the idea that you only need to define mkdir | 21:24 |
| tobixen | I'd feel more comfortable with the mixin. | 21:24 |
| Tv | fs'es should be easy to write, too -- not just easy to use | 21:24 |
| Tv | sure, whatever floats the boat, as long as it's not kludgy | 21:24 |
| Tv | but that means we're piling a bunch of "additional crap" into these classes most of them will not want to override | 21:25 |
| Tv | i think that's a bad architecture | 21:25 |
| Tv | i'd be happier with a simple core, no extra methods making a mess of the namespace | 21:25 |
| Tv | but maybe that would require an vfs-style layer :( | 21:25 |
| Tv | personally, i don't think fs.util.maybe_mkdir(p) is all that bad | 21:26 |
| tobixen | I think it's pretty bad ;-) | 21:27 |
| Tv | i'd trade towards making filesystems simpler | 21:27 |
| Tv | like, my ideal is that a new fs is <100 lines of python, not inheriting anything | 21:27 |
| tobixen | you really don't like inheritation? :-) | 21:28 |
| Tv | i don't believe in all fses sharing a common base | 21:28 |
| tobixen | I think a proper object should come with "batteries included". But it may as well be a wrapper class | 21:28 |
| Tv | if you force that, there will be ugly hacks to get around self._pathname etc | 21:29 |
| Tv | think of it this way: | 21:29 |
| Tv | file-like objects don't all inherit file (or basefile) | 21:29 |
| tobixen | I'm not at all enforcing subclasses to use self._pathname. I even found that I didn't want it in the inmem fs :-) | 21:29 |
| Tv | sequence-like objects don't all inherit some sequence class | 21:29 |
| tobixen | file-like objects does have quite many methods that can be implemented using other of the methods | 21:30 |
| Tv | but most of the time you only really need the .read() and .close() quacking | 21:31 |
| tobixen | Hm | 21:31 |
| tobixen | http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3116/ | 21:31 |
| Tv | does that pep talk at all about how you'd actually use that thing?-o | 21:32 |
| Tv | are you just supposed to inherit some default implementation of the two higher level interfaces, if you implement the raw level? | 21:33 |
| Tv | if so, i don't really see the point of splitting it in three layers | 21:34 |
| Tv | when the topmost two are pretty much unchangeable | 21:34 |
| Tv | or is it supposed to be rawio + bufferedwrapper + textwrapper? | 21:35 |
| Tv | "buffer is a reference to the BufferedIOBase object to be wrapped with the TextIOWrapper." | 21:35 |
| Tv | aha | 21:35 |
| Tv | wrapping | 21:35 |
| tobixen | wrapping is possible for us, too | 21:36 |
| Tv | where the more abstract layer has the less abstract as an attribute | 21:36 |
| Tv | sure, but then it will wrap all .child etc call results too | 21:36 |
| Tv | gets silly way faster | 21:36 |
| Tv | think of .walk() | 21:36 |
| Tv | the amount of extra objects created and destroyed | 21:36 |
| Tv | which is why i'm willing to type fs.util.maybe_mkdir(p) | 21:37 |
| tobixen | We have only two file systems so far. I think we should implement at least one more, and discuss design issues based on our experiences | 21:38 |
| Tv | or fs.util.copy(src, dst), instead of src.copy(dst) | 21:38 |
| Tv | i don't want to push convenience methods into every filesystem | 21:39 |
| Tv | sure, i should be writing gitfs right now.. | 21:39 |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 22:14 | |
| zeth | Hello All | 22:27 |
| tobixen | /nick All | 22:29 |
| tobixen | Hello zeth! ;-) | 22:29 |
| zeth | How are you doing? | 22:30 |
| tobixen | tjah | 22:30 |
| tobixen | I have a big backlog of work that needs to be done, and no motivation for doing it | 22:31 |
| zeth | I know how you feel | 22:31 |
| zeth | I have been distracting myself by trying to work out the PyConUK schedule a bit | 22:32 |
| zeth | but it seems too early still maybe | 22:32 |
| zeth | we don't have all the talks in yet | 22:32 |
| zeth | I am cornering people for talks now | 22:33 |
| tobixen | Someone should go there and talk about our file system library ;-) | 22:34 |
| zeth | you should! | 22:35 |
| * tobixen ducks | 22:35 | |
| tobixen | when is it going to be anyway? | 22:35 |
| zeth | 12th to 14th September 2008 | 22:35 |
| zeth | 12th is tutorial and warm up day | 22:36 |
| tobixen | I somehow doubt my employer would send me to PyConUK ... and chances are we'll be in Beijing at that time anyway. But, after all, Stansted is the only sensible international destination we have from our home airport ... | 22:36 |
| zeth | well Stansted <> Birmingham I do all the time | 22:37 |
| zeth | I go on the cheap coach | 22:37 |
| zeth | but there is trains also | 22:37 |
| tobixen | I'd rather hitch. I just took an "eurolines lux" from Riga to Tallinn ... but it was really "eurolines sux" | 22:37 |
| zeth | the coach goes through the countryside, but it is direct so I just fall alseep or do work | 22:38 |
| zeth | cool | 22:38 |
| zeth | I really like Tallin | 22:38 |
| zeth | I prefered Tallin to Vilnius | 22:38 |
| * zeth ducks | 22:38 | |
| tobixen | They were supposed to have fresh newspapers, free coffee, toilet, TV-entertainment, internet and electricity on the bus. Two points - they did have electricity and the toilet probably worked | 22:38 |
| zeth | I think the British National express has power | 22:39 |
| Tv | electricity in the toilet seat for the occupant, entertainment for the rest | 22:39 |
| tobixen | Tallinn is spelled with two n's, and the Estonians are quite picky on it. ;-) | 22:39 |
| Tv | and internet for the resulting video | 22:39 |
| tobixen | They were supposed to have Internet on some British buses also. We were trailing a bus on the highway while I tried to figure out by google earth when we rented a car in England earlier this year | 22:39 |
| zeth | lol | 22:40 |
| tobixen | but the internet connection didn't work at that bus either. :-( | 22:40 |
| zeth | 3G card | 22:40 |
| tobixen | so we got lost :D | 22:40 |
| zeth | is the way to travel | 22:40 |
| Tv | 3g is pretty poor on the road | 22:40 |
| Tv | hopping from station to station too fast to keep up | 22:40 |
| tobixen | but it's anyway only 3g in the bus | 22:41 |
| tobixen | I had UMTS through my telephone - but then I started replacing my phone abroad every time it got stolen or driven over by a bus | 22:41 |
| zeth | right okay, normally I take the 12:40 am Stansted to Bham, so I just sleep anyhow | 22:42 |
| zeth | there is normally a cheap flight from helsinki to stansted, but all the trains have finished | 22:42 |
| tobixen | it seems that the access point settings should be configured on the telephone itself, so buying a telephone abroad, internet through the telephone through my norwegian provider doesn't work anymore | 22:42 |
| Tv | tobixen: but that's only settings | 22:43 |
| tobixen | I've called and emailed and nagged both on customer service and in the shop, but all they could help me with was to get MMS working. Googling also didn't help. I dunno ... it's weird | 22:43 |
| tobixen | Anyway, I somehow enjoy spending my time searching for open wifi's and trailing wifi buses on the highway ;-) | 22:44 |
| zeth | yeah, I went on a tour once with someone who can do that kismet stuf | 22:45 |
| zeth | he doesn't really want the internet, he just likes breaking them | 22:45 |
| zeth | kids hey | 22:45 |
| Tv | all the illegality without any of the benefits | 22:45 |
| zeth | yeah, really weird | 22:46 |
| zeth | I just have enough to do without Internet | 22:46 |
| zeth | if I plan ahead I can fill my computer full of stuff | 22:46 |
| Tv | europython made me realize how addicted i am to ubiquitous 3g on phone | 22:46 |
| zeth | I also puts all the docs I ever need in /usr/share/doc | 22:47 |
| Tv | im, maps, web browsing... | 22:47 |
| zeth | so tommi, since you are here, fancy an autumn mini-break in the UK ;) | 22:49 |
| Tv | pyconuk? | 22:51 |
| zeth | yup | 22:51 |
| Tv | i actually don't know much about the uk variant | 22:51 |
| Tv | i've seen plenty of ep and one pycon us | 22:52 |
| zeth | I didn't mean the lake district ;) | 22:52 |
| Tv | not convinced either way, currently -- plan is to move to US in october, so it may be a hectic time | 22:52 |
| Tv | but i should talk about some projects | 22:52 |
| zeth | so PyconUK is a bit different to europython, bit the same | 22:52 |
| zeth | the conference venue is not hotel | 22:52 |
| zeth | it is a music college | 22:52 |
| zeth | in the historic(ish) centre of bham | 22:53 |
| tobixen | ep was in CERN two years ago :-) | 22:53 |
| zeth | dead centre of town | 22:53 |
| zeth | it has a cafe like bit in the middle the same | 22:53 |
| Tv | hehe missed talk submission deadline already | 22:53 |
| zeth | the parties are organised centrally | 22:53 |
| zeth | the talks deadline was a bit optimistic | 22:53 |
| Tv | yeah | 22:54 |
| Tv | zeth: if you want me yammering about fs api and something else, i might actually do that | 22:54 |
| zeth | please do! | 22:54 |
| Tv | i don't really fly for less than two talks ;) | 22:54 |
| zeth | sure | 22:54 |
| zeth | do one on one day and one the next ;) | 22:54 |
| Tv | but i like hallways a lot, too, so it isn't always an organized one | 22:55 |
| zeth | or do both on the first day, while you are sober | 22:55 |
| zeth | British Python people drink a bit | 22:55 |
| zeth | you might have guessed | 22:55 |
| Tv | let's see, at ep i had.. two talks, lightning talk, fs open space, twisted qabofwtfbbq, another twisted gathering mostly about greenlets where i got invited to and answered some questions, and the fs sprint | 22:56 |
| zeth | the atmosphere is slightly more informal because the venue is closer together | 22:56 |
| zeth | and because the main but is at a weekend | 22:56 |
| zeth | so the delegates are a bit more diverse | 22:56 |
| zeth | and because the main *bit* is at a weekend | 22:57 |
| zeth | too many bits and buts ;) | 22:57 |
| Tv | so two days, really? | 22:57 |
| zeth | so basically only maybe 1/3 or 1/4 will be professional Python people | 22:57 |
| zeth | others will be programmers in other languages | 22:57 |
| zeth | or people in other parts of IT | 22:57 |
| Tv | ah | 22:58 |
| zeth | or people not in IT at all | 22:58 |
| zeth | that is how we got more than Europython just in UK | 22:58 |
| Tv | weird audience for a python conference | 22:58 |
| Tv | i loved the linux-kongresses i went to -- wide background but deeply technical people | 22:58 |
| zeth | like we had one talk from a Police Inspector | 22:58 |
| zeth | so the main part of the conference is sat and sun | 22:59 |
| zeth | this year the first event is on Thursday | 22:59 |
| zeth | a pub night, mostly the crew and people who did set up | 22:59 |
| zeth | they are the ones there early | 23:00 |
| zeth | Friday is tutorials and little informal groups doing stuf | 23:00 |
| zeth | f | 23:00 |
| zeth | Sat and Sun are main days | 23:00 |
| zeth | then we have sprint rooms available on Mon-tue | 23:00 |
| zeth | there is a pub night or dinner every night of course | 23:00 |
| zeth | not sure how else to describe it really | 23:01 |
| Tv | "England". | 23:01 |
| zeth | well we have lots of welsh people | 23:02 |
| zeth | and some scots and ireland | 23:02 |
| zeth | not too many from abroad | 23:02 |
| zeth | this year we have three americans coming over | 23:02 |
| zeth | last year we had Christian Tismer and maybe another german or two | 23:03 |
| zeth | the first year we did not tell anyone else abroad about it because we did not want people choosing PyConUK over Europython | 23:03 |
| zeth | now it doesn't matter so much as there is no Europython until next year | 23:04 |
| Tv | hehe | 23:04 |
| zeth | and that is in England too | 23:04 |
| Tv | which reminds me | 23:04 |
| Tv | what was that comment about something else happening close by near that time? | 23:04 |
| Tv | somebody said something at ep | 23:04 |
| zeth | which time? | 23:04 |
| Tv | near pycon uk | 23:05 |
| zeth | well last year there was a Munich Python day at the same time which we tried but failed to link up via video | 23:05 |
| zeth | we didn't have MrTopf | 23:05 |
| Tv | maybe it was just web2.0 expo, for the yanks | 23:06 |
| Tv | stop at NYC on the way back | 23:06 |
| zeth | pass, not sure | 23:06 |
| Tv | or linux kernel summit | 23:06 |
| Tv | dunno | 23:06 |
| zeth | I didn't hear anything about it | 23:06 |
| zeth | last year people some went to PyConUK on the way to Kernel summit | 23:07 |
| zeth | Birmingham to Oxford is pretty short journey | 23:07 |
| zeth | yeah kernel summit is after PyConUK | 23:09 |
| zeth | if he is going to both, you could maybe ride in Shuttleworth's jet ;) | 23:09 |
| Tv | yeah not going to the US before Oct | 23:10 |
| Tv | don't want any extra trouble with visa | 23:10 |
| zeth | well it is easy to come to the UK | 23:10 |
| zeth | we have not left the EU yet ;) | 23:10 |
| tobixen | yet? ;-) | 23:11 |
| tobixen | you're anyway not in schengen and not in euro-zone and after all a quite isolated country ;-) | 23:11 |
| Tv | yeah not in schengen is pretty much the only real thing in travel | 23:12 |
| Tv | eu isn't much easier than rest of the civilized world; schengen is the easy area | 23:12 |
| Tv | (and yes, US is not part of the civilized world..) | 23:13 |
| tobixen | I was travelling through London/Essex quite much this year already due to that line we have to Stansted now. And last year I went to Ireland and Glasgow. | 23:13 |
| tobixen | There was very short queues and very little trouble | 23:13 |
| tobixen | My wife even got through the security control in Glasgow with two knifes in her handbag | 23:13 |
| tobixen | but when I went through Stansted some weeks ago it was horrible, like 45 minutes queue time for passport control on the way in | 23:14 |
| Tv | let me put it this way | 23:14 |
| tobixen | and maybe 30 minutes queue time for security control on the way out (of England) | 23:14 |
| Tv | i've been to the US quite a bit | 23:14 |
| Tv | i've never queued under 30 minutes | 23:14 |
| Tv | for pure immigration only | 23:14 |
| Tv | plus all the other queue points | 23:14 |
| tobixen | I've been once, and it went relatively smooth - but that was before they demolished the WTC | 23:15 |
| * xorAxAx had 2 journeys to the us, both under 15 min. immigration queue waiting times | 23:15 | |
| xorAxAx | (that was JFK and SFO respectively) | 23:15 |
| Tv | tobixen: that was a different country | 23:15 |
| tobixen | though, I was a bit shocked that they asked me: "what are you going to do in the US?". That was first time ever I got such a question, and it felt like a private matter :-) | 23:15 |
| Tv | i've seen jfk enough many times to know when the renovation process makes progress, and they change the corridors | 23:15 |
| tobixen | things were so much easier before the security crazyness | 23:16 |
| Tv | tobixen: ah before .eu, .fi border guards did the same -- easy to pick out the nervous ones | 23:16 |
| * xorAxAx remembers the day when he was allowed to look into the cockpit as a child :) | 23:16 | |
| xorAxAx | no doors in between | 23:16 |
| tobixen | hey, my child was allowed to look into the cockpit just some weeks ago | 23:16 |
| xorAxAx | hmm | 23:17 |
| tobixen | and it's not that long time ago since some asylum seeker went nuts trying to chop up the pilot with an axe in a Norwegian small passenger plane ... | 23:17 |
| zeth | the security is crap | 23:18 |
| tobixen | but I'm most amazed that my wife was allowed to board in Glasgow with two knifes in her handbag. One of them was the swiss army knife, it had been in that bag for ages and several flights | 23:18 |
| zeth | all just a show | 23:18 |
| Tv | my favorite security theater story | 23:19 |
| Tv | one time i made the security gate beep | 23:19 |
| Tv | realized i still had a phone in my pocket | 23:19 |
| xorAxAx | zeth: yeah, i like the tsa comedy group | 23:19 |
| tobixen | only once? It beeps on 10% on passengers regardless of whether they have metal on them or not | 23:19 |
| Tv | took it out, handed it to the guard, said "oh it was probably this" | 23:19 |
| xorAxAx | and how they screen your face, marking some wierd hieroglyphs on your ticket | 23:19 |
| Tv | guard took phone, went to put it on the x-ray, and let me go | 23:19 |
| Tv | so | 23:19 |
| tobixen | heh | 23:20 |
| Tv | if you test positive | 23:20 |
| zeth | yeah sounds about right | 23:20 |
| Tv | as long as you have *some* metal, it's alright | 23:20 |
| zeth | the metal in your bones or something | 23:20 |
| zeth | or it can't tell the difference | 23:20 |
| zeth | in my bag coming back from Europython I took out one laptop | 23:20 |
| Tv | naah, just remember: if you're carrying a gun, have something innocent too | 23:20 |
| tobixen | Tv: sorry to say, but that was an exception. They are instructed to check you physically - and due to the 10%-thing you are not allowed to go through the scanner again | 23:20 |
| zeth | left the other in | 23:20 |
| zeth | nothing | 23:20 |
| Tv | tobixen: it wasn't really an exception, it was more a magician/con-man confidence trick | 23:21 |
| zeth | Also I had a pretty scary set of wires | 23:21 |
| Tv | i didn't mean to do it | 23:21 |
| Tv | but i realized my timing hit him perfectly | 23:21 |
| zeth | A UK plug with a european adapter on the end, perfect ball and chain weapon | 23:21 |
| tobixen | when I went to the US, I had a car battery with me to power the laptop. It really looked like a bomb. And I was allowed to board with it :-) | 23:21 |
| Tv | just when he was about to say something, i offered the phone (distracted) and said that it was probably that (these are not the droids you are looking for) | 23:21 |
| xorAxAx | now try that again with a mustache, tobixen | 23:21 |
| xorAxAx | umm, Tv | 23:21 |
| zeth | or strangle the cabin crew with the cord | 23:21 |
| tobixen | yes, cords are excellent for strangling. I've thought of it | 23:21 |
| Tv | tobixen: uh, big batteries are not allowed on board, even in luggage | 23:22 |
| zeth | I almost always forget to take out the liquids | 23:22 |
| tobixen | Learnt that from the James Bond films ;-) | 23:22 |
| tobixen | Tv: this was before WTC fell down, remember :-) | 23:22 |
| zeth | the funny thing is, you are allowed smoking stuff such as lighter or matches | 23:22 |
| Tv | tobixen: heh, that rule is actually more about minimizing accidental damage | 23:22 |
| zeth | and they sell you scotch and vodka the other side of security | 23:22 |
| tobixen | Not so long ago my child ran through the metal detector with a rucksack on his back ... of course it beeped like crazy, but noone bothered to stop him :-) | 23:22 |
| Tv | tobixen: burning LiIon is not your friend.. | 23:22 |
| zeth | all you need is one of those little hand soap bottles | 23:23 |
| tobixen | yep, laptop battery _is_ explosive | 23:23 |
| zeth | that my Finnish wife carries everywhere | 23:23 |
| tobixen | and it's fairly trivial to trigger it | 23:23 |
| Tv | zeth: tobacco industry has good lobbyists | 23:23 |
| zeth | that would be thinkening agent | 23:23 |
| zeth | stick the soap in the vodka | 23:23 |
| zeth | add a piece of clothing | 23:23 |
| zeth | worked for the Finns in the winter war | 23:23 |
| tobixen | but vodka contains 60% of water, that's quite a lot. | 23:24 |
| zeth | twenty of those in a plane | 23:24 |
| tobixen | I don't think they are allowed to sell strong spirits in the tax free? | 23:24 |
| zeth | well you would certainly need a lot of thickening agent to get it to light at all | 23:25 |
| zeth | I think it would be easier and simplier to take over a plane while it is on the runway | 23:27 |
| zeth | start by stealing a suitable vehicle from track side | 23:28 |
| zeth | drive up to the plane | 23:28 |
| zeth | take off | 23:28 |
| zeth | You need a pilot | 23:28 |
| zeth | but not sure if the airline can disable the plane in software remotely? | 23:29 |
| zeth | actually that is even better | 23:29 |
| zeth | at night, install rootkit on plane | 23:29 |
| tobixen | when I was in the military, we all had guns and it was walking distance to the civilian part of the airport. No fences. I was thinking more than one time about how easy it would be to take over an airplane ... | 23:33 |
| zeth | I suppose motivation is important | 23:35 |
| zeth | what would you do with it then? | 23:35 |
| zeth | did you hear the thing about the British train stations?: | 23:36 |
| tobixen | no? | 23:36 |
| zeth | They brought in sniffer dogs to sniff for explosives, but they are not allowed to sniff Muslims as dogs are unclean in their religion | 23:37 |
| tobixen | lol | 23:37 |
| zeth | I read an article by Bruce Schiender once | 23:38 |
| zeth | where he explained that profiling is the only thing that works | 23:38 |
| zeth | but it is socially unacceptable | 23:38 |
| xorAxAx | supported by a lot of surveillance? | 23:38 |
| zeth | so they do all this nonsense instead | 23:38 |
| xorAxAx | or how would profiling work without? | 23:39 |
| zeth | with surveillance in the sense of being prepared yes | 23:40 |
| zeth | profile the customers from booking all the way onto the plane | 23:40 |
| zeth | but again you are several million times more likely to be killed in the cab to the airport | 23:41 |
| zeth | and no one cares about car crashes | 23:41 |
| zeth | so by playing this security show game we have lost | 23:42 |
| *** MrTopf has joined #europython | 23:43 | |
| zeth | not that this has anything to do with Python in Europe | 23:43 |
| zeth | unless we can flog them better systems | 23:43 |
| zeth | more dynamic and flexible | 23:43 |
| xorAxAx | so obviously we should start collecting more data and evaluate it better? | 23:43 |
| xorAxAx | a bit like google? wasnt there this eff short story where google does the immigration services for the us | 23:44 |
| zeth | Well, imagine it was the British Empire for the moment | 23:44 |
| zeth | if they bombed a bus, we would destroy mecca or something | 23:44 |
| MrTopf | Hey zeth, xorAxAx | 23:44 |
| zeth | we don't play that game any more | 23:44 |
| MrTopf | I should post 1-2 videos to the blog | 23:44 |
| xorAxAx | i am not loyal to the queen, so thats probably even worse | 23:44 |
| zeth | hi MrTopf | 23:44 |
| zeth | since we don't want to play war | 23:44 |
| zeth | we should buy them off | 23:44 |
| xorAxAx | which game? | 23:45 |
| zeth | the crusade game | 23:45 |
| tobixen | hm ... googling "google immigration service" doesn't show up anything useful ;-) | 23:45 |
| zeth | Maybe like mediveal times, Prince William should do his bit and marry Osama bin Laden's niece | 23:46 |
| zeth | MrTopf: wow you have videos done already? | 23:46 |
| MrTopf | zeth: 2 ;-) | 23:46 |
| zeth | cool | 23:46 |
| xorAxAx | tobixen: let me google for it :) | 23:46 |
| MrTopf | it of course turned out to be annoying ;-) | 23:46 |
| MrTopf | the right tools are simply missing | 23:46 |
| MrTopf | I spend one day on trying to automate things like creating intros | 23:47 |
| tobixen | so on next python spring the proper tools should be developed? ;-) | 23:47 |
| MrTopf | then I noticed that AppleScript sux big time and that Apple has not documented their APXL language properly | 23:47 |
| MrTopf | tobixen: well, I wouldn't mind some startup which does a proper video platform | 23:47 |
| zeth | MrTopf: I have no control over the blog, that is a pboddie thing | 23:48 |
| MrTopf | I have control over it ;-) | 23:48 |
| MrTopf | it's more about encoding videos what I am annoyed by | 23:48 |
| MrTopf | and things like iMovie, Keynote and so on | 23:48 |
| MrTopf | but wordpress.com might not allow flash embeds for those videos | 23:48 |
| MrTopf | so I will put in links | 23:48 |
| zeth | What about Flumotion, does that do it> | 23:49 |
| zeth | ? | 23:49 |
| xorAxAx | tobixen: http://www.radaronline.com/from-the-magazine/2007/09/google_fiction_evil_dangerous_surveillance_control_1.php | 23:49 |
| xorAxAx | tobixen: wasnt even eff | 23:49 |
| zeth | I know nothing about video | 23:49 |
| MrTopf | zeth: well, I wanted nice looking intros.. flumotion might be good for converting but then again I also would need to learn more about it | 23:49 |
| MrTopf | I should have asked at EuroPython directly ;-) | 23:49 |
| xorAxAx | oh, he is an EFF member | 23:49 |
| zeth | but something called flumotion was used at GUADEC for something once | 23:49 |
| MrTopf | and forced Thomas to do the conversion stuff ;-) | 23:49 |
| MrTopf | anyway, it seems iMovie is doing it for now | 23:50 |
| MrTopf | at least I have some workflow | 23:50 |
| MrTopf | and not 500MB files | 23:50 |
| MrTopf | it just takes it's 90-150 minutes per video to render | 23:50 |
| xorAxAx | MrTopf: did you look at fefes c3 workflow? | 23:50 |
| MrTopf | no | 23:50 |
| MrTopf | do you have a link | 23:50 |
| zeth | can we have .ogg videos, or some kind of format I can play on my laptop? | 23:50 |
| MrTopf | I am not sure it's applicable though | 23:51 |
| MrTopf | zeth: if you convert it.. ;-) | 23:51 |
| zeth | i.e. when on the road | 23:51 |
| MrTopf | I am just doign what iMovie can do | 23:51 |
| zeth | what format are they in .flv ? | 23:51 |
| MrTopf | mov and flv | 23:51 |
| zeth | mov is okay | 23:51 |
| MrTopf | but with AAC and H264 | 23:51 |
| zeth | actually flv probably is playable offline | 23:51 |
| MrTopf | I guess it is | 23:51 |
| zeth | oh right, so I can put it on my video ipod ;) | 23:52 |
| zeth | That my wife won at a conference | 23:52 |
| MrTopf | yes, I should buy the pro option of blip.tv for a month | 23:52 |
| MrTopf | then it also produces ipod compatible versions | 23:52 |
| zeth | it has the word Google lasered on the back | 23:52 |
| xorAxAx | MrTopf: http://ftp.stw-bonn.de/pub/24C3/matroska/24c3-2250-de-abschlussbericht_fem.mkv | 23:52 |
| MrTopf | xorAxAx: thanks | 23:53 |
| zeth | well on my Linux computer, it makes me ipod video compatible things, but as I said, I know nothing about video | 23:53 |
| MrTopf | even on Linux nowadays such things should play ;-) | 23:53 |
| MrTopf | and if somebody in the community complains I would have a job for that person ;-) | 23:53 |
| MrTopf | converting it is actually just running some script | 23:54 |
| MrTopf | it just might take some time | 23:54 |
| MrTopf | and uploading again somewhere of course | 23:54 |
| zeth | everything plays on Linux in Europe, we have no software patents | 23:54 |
| MrTopf | but even this can be handled if the script is on some server already | 23:54 |
| zeth | or not enforcable software patents | 23:54 |
| zeth | in US, it is a bit dodgy many media formats on Linux | 23:54 |
| zeth | but technically it works | 23:54 |
| zeth | the european patent office gives out software patents in violation of EU law | 23:55 |
| zeth | and in violation of British law | 23:55 |
| zeth | but no one stops it | 23:55 |
| zeth | but the patents it gives out cannot be enforced | 23:56 |
| zeth | so you can play any format in Europe | 23:56 |
| zeth | MrTopf: out of interest, what are the two talks? | 23:56 |
| zeth | and MrTopf are you free in september 12-14th? We could do with media help in PyconUK | 23:57 |
| MrTopf | cocos2d, the game engine and django newforms-admin | 23:57 |
| MrTopf | I am going on vacation on 16th I think so I guess that won't work | 23:57 |
| MrTopf | but doing video is not hard so I'd think everybody can do it | 23:58 |
| MrTopf | just use ustream.tv if the network is good | 23:58 |
| MrTopf | then you don't even need to upload it later as it directly records it | 23:58 |
| MrTopf | and usage is very simple | 23:58 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!