IRC log of #europython for Thursday, 2008-02-14

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zethHello18:45
pboddieHello!18:45
zethI have Python West Midlands meeting tonight, so might catch the first half18:45
zethand the end if you go on long18:46
zeththere is wireless there18:46
zethbut not on the bus between18:46
zethhow are you pboddie?18:46
pboddiezeth: Fine. I guess you figured out the Web site issues. Thanks for that!18:46
zethsorry, I have been under a rock18:47
zethwhat website issues18:47
zethmemory like a goldfish18:47
pboddieIt was some bad interaction between mod_python and MoinMoin.18:47
zethoh right18:47
pboddieI linked to it from the last meeting summary.18:47
zethah okay18:47
zethI look at it when I get home in approx 40 mins18:47
pboddieWe just fired off a load of messages at you and hoped that you'd read them later. ;-)18:47
zethah okay18:48
zethI did read them18:48
pboddieI haven't seen them since, but xorAxAx said that it was when MoinMoin is under load.18:48
zethbut then had a powercut which cleared my IRC scrollback18:48
xorAxAxhmm?18:48
zethand forgot it until now ;)18:48
zetha fuse went18:48
pboddieThat kind of thing always happens. :-)18:48
zethmy home server was up 162 days before that18:49
pboddiexorAxAx: Just that MoinMoin cache vs. pickle issue which only happens with mod_python.18:49
pboddie162 days? Think of the polar bears!18:49
xorAxAxwell18:49
pboddiezeth: I guess the site is using mod_python.18:50
zethI like the chart on the wiki of what countries people come from18:50
zethvery interesting18:50
pboddieThe Germans always come out on top. :-)18:51
pboddieI should try and upload the 2006 one, too.18:51
zethI might be being dumb but what is the other column?18:51
pboddieYou can act out your Eurovision fantasies, too. ;-)18:51
zethoh okay18:52
zethI see18:52
pboddieTheres a cumulative total which is just for checking things, I guess.18:52
zethyup18:52
zethif it was eurovision then everyone would be from the former Yugoslavia18:52
zethand the four big countries would get in for free18:53
pboddieOf course, the total lets you say stuff like "5 countries accounted for almost 50% of attendees".18:53
pboddieHave you been reading that Wikipedia entry on Eurovision that someone posted or do you already know too much? ;-)18:53
zethI already know too much sadly18:54
zethOne year the Germans did not qualify and the event lost lots of money18:54
zethbecause advertisers were less interested18:54
zethso they made a rule that the four big countries always qualify18:54
zethso it has enough money to cover costs18:55
pboddieThe Swedes just love Eurovision, but that's not a big market compared to Germany.18:55
zethI suppose German TV puts in a lot as well18:55
pboddieThat's what Wikipedia claimed, at least.18:55
pboddieStill, the figures show a lot of what we already knew: France and Spain weren't well represented last year.18:56
zethI think we need one European one vote system18:56
pboddieSo perhaps some targeted publicity is needed.18:56
zethat the moment the phone vote of a german is worth like 20 times less than a small country18:57
pboddieI'm sure the vested interests wouldn't like that.18:58
zethwell, maybe there would the same system as now18:59
zethbut with a 10 point boost to any entry that gets more than 2 big countries to vote 12 points for19:00
zethAnyhow, 5pm, time to go home, I'll be back on in about 20 mins19:01
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lac_hi all19:38
dboddie_workHello.19:40
zethHi again19:46
jacob22Hi folks!19:58
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zethhello jacob22, pedronis19:59
pedronishi19:59
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jacob22Hi John.20:01
pinnerGood evening!20:01
zethHi John20:01
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MrTopfHi20:02
lac_good evening.  I suspect this will be a very shrot meeting giving that I didn't prepare anything.20:02
lac_Mostly what I want to find out is does anybody need help with anything?20:02
lac_and briefly how are things going?20:02
pinneryou do, I expect ;)20:03
lac_:-)20:03
* MrTopf is mostly lurking20:03
MrTopfbut I blogged about the date and the logos20:03
lac_seems that changing the logo is a popular activity.  I'd like the proposed ones to go on a webpage20:03
pinnerthat's what the wiki is for20:03
lac_someplace where people can do 'click' 'click' 'click' and see the various options20:04
MrTopfhttp://mrtopf.de/blog/plone/planetplone/europython-2008-happening-july-7-12-in-vilnius-lithuania/ and http://mrtopf.de/blog/plone/europython-planning-starts-with-new-logos/20:04
pinnerand paul has already done that20:04
lac_ah.  wonderful!20:04
MrTopfthe blog post also has the logos although not the latest ones20:04
lac_In my backlog of mail is there one from Paul saying he has done that?20:04
pinnerthen I suggest we put a closing date for logo submissions20:04
pinnerand the improve list should vote20:04
lac_Maybe the whole ep list, actually?20:05
pinnerI thought making it the improve list would encouage memebership/volunteers?20:06
lac_Some of the people on improve have been more or less silent, while others on the ep list are backing a candidate.20:06
lac_there is that.  hmmm.20:06
lac_what say the rest of you?20:06
pinnerI'll go with the flow..20:06
lac_so will I, it is hardly the most pressing issue.20:06
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jacob22I think pinner has a point.20:06
lac_Ok, we can do it that way.  Given them 2 weeks more to come up with designs?20:07
lac_er Give?20:07
pinnersounds about right20:07
zethI think 2 weeks is a long time but I have no strong views20:08
pinnerand let's see if the original submission, which was a draft and I think the best idea, can be given a makeover by a graphic artist20:08
pinnerep is not until July, so 2 weeks is fine20:09
zethokay, np20:09
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* pinner has to go in 20 minutes20:09
pinnerevening Paul20:10
lac_Hi Paul.20:10
zethzeth has to get the bus to Python West Midlands also in about 30 mins20:10
jacob22What is the most pressing business for today?20:10
pboddieHello. Sorry to be late!20:10
zeth(don't know how to do the star thing)20:10
lac_Ok, I am working on the budget, thank you john for the prliminary figures.  I'm not ready to present it yet.20:10
lac_I need costs from Aiste for the site.  can you mail me them?20:11
pedroniswe need to decide on themes to have blurbs for the call for talks20:11
lac_costs for food, and rooms20:11
pinnerI need details of the Worldpay account, and delegate fees before we can do much on the bookings system20:11
pboddieMost pressing things: I think timetable/timeline, fees (perhaps), ideas about publicity, sponsors.20:11
pinnerlac: did you get my spreadsheet earlier?20:11
lac_we don't have a Worldpay account.20:11
lac_I just got your spreadsheet, thank you.20:11
pinneroh, then we're stuck with payPal?20:12
lac_There is this complicated form you need to fill out to get one.  I have filled it out but they haven't replied yet.20:12
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pinnerWorldPay also have a quite high standing charge20:12
lac_Depends on whether we get our worldpay account or an alternative.  I am working on that but nothing has happened yet.20:12
* lac_ nods.20:13
lac_got any alternatives you want to push?20:13
pinnerWhat we use is to some extent dependent on our bank a/c20:13
pinnerie, the a/c is in Sweden and you know what you can do better than I20:14
lac_ok.20:14
lac_I have an appoint ment with the bank tomorrow to ask them questions like this.20:14
pinnerlet's wait and see what WP come up with20:14
pinnerditto with your bank, then20:15
lac_re: themes -- I think we should send mail to ep and ask what sorts of things people are interested in.20:15
lac_I'd be interested in mailing all the people who came last year, too.20:15
pinnerWe'll knock up a sample booking page, and leave the card payment method for now.20:16
lac_not sure if we can, legally.  This year I would like to set things up so we can mail people.20:16
lac_Ep is always doing some sort of outreach to some other group.  testing, say or agile methods.20:16
lac_I'm curious as to what sort of outreach people would like this year.20:16
pinnerlast week mobile was a suggested theme20:17
pboddieAbout themes, this is what we talked about last week: http://www.europython.org/community/Talk_Suggestions20:17
pboddieI think we should mail the list and perhaps other areas. Ask people what they want to see. What about feedback from last year?20:17
pinnerI don't recall any feedback on themes20:17
lac_Also, if anybody kows how to reach Arlo Belshee, we owe him money and cannot send it to him until I get bank details.20:17
lac_I don't have a working one.20:17
jacob22€140/year isn't too steep for Worldpay, I think. They advertise recently lowered rate.20:18
pinnerregarding a mobile theme, I'm pretty sure I have the contact to get sponsorship from Nokia20:18
lac_that would be cool20:18
pboddieAbout the timetable. I made a page about that based on previous conferences: http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/Timetable20:19
pboddieIt'd be good for a number of people if we could agree to that or make changes.20:19
pedronislac_: did you ask Bea about Arlo20:19
lac_pedronis: yes, this is where I got the address I am using unsuccessfully20:20
pinnerI think we should go with Paul's time tab;e20:20
pedronislac_: I see20:20
lac_+1 on Paul's timetable20:21
pinnerlac_: if he was desperate for the money he'd have contacted you!20:21
pboddieIs this the Arlo Belshee everyone is trying to reach...?20:21
pboddiehttp://www.linkedin.com/pub/0/13b/0ab20:21
lac_I guess, but I feel rather ashamed about it.20:21
moreati+1 to timetable from Paul20:22
lac_sure looks like it and if he lives in Portland, it will explain why directory assistance in Seattle doesn't know him.20:22
pinnerlac_: your problem solved, then20:23
lac_terrific, thank you paul20:23
pboddieGreat. Well, I'll make that the official calendar, shall I?20:24
lac_can john and jacob22 coordinate on getting Nokia sponsorship?20:24
lac_Paul, yes please20:24
pboddieI hope Samuele is in agreement with the call for talks date.20:24
jacob22Arlo Belshee: a_xp_coach@arlim.org20:24
pinnerthe only thing on the timetable is that we could possibly open registration earlier, if we're ready20:24
jacob22lac_: I'll coordinate Nokia with John.20:25
pedronispboddie: yes it seems reasonable20:25
pedronisI think we should send out the mails about interests tomorrow I suppose20:25
pinnerjacob22:ok, we'll mail offline20:26
jacob22About sponsorship, does anyone want any modifications of sponsorship terms from previous years?20:26
pboddiepedronis: About themes? If you want me to do it, I'll try and come up with something.20:26
pedronispboddie: yes about themes20:26
mgedminspeaking of interests, it looks like inventing a setuptools-based build/configuration management tool is the new fashion20:27
lac_I want to find out what people are interested in this year20:27
mgedminthere's a theme for you20:27
pboddiemgedmin: Add it to the page!20:27
mgedminpboddie: url?20:27
pboddiemgedmin: http://www.europython.org/community/Talk_Suggestions20:27
lac_One think I would like to do is have a code clinic.20:27
lac_Take your code to europython and get it criticised by people who are better than you.20:28
pboddiejacob22: Ask for more money? EP looks a bit cheap compared to other conferences!20:28
* pinner hates setuptools and distutils20:28
* mgedmin likes the code clinic idea20:29
lac_pboddie: you mean raise the entrance fee? or ask more for sponsors? or both? or somethingelse?20:29
* mgedmin likes to make fun of bad code20:29
jacob22lac_: No, higher sponsor fees.20:29
pboddielac_: Ask sponsors for more money.20:29
lac_mgedimin may have to pass a 'tactfullnest' test before we hand any newbies over to him ... :-)20:30
pboddieAnd insist on actual cash, not goodies.20:30
jacob22Maybe special sponsorships... Coffees, dinner, beer night.20:30
pboddiejacob22: Or events, yes. That could be very good, and not too expensive in Lithuania. ;-)20:30
lac_But if google wants to buy us all a beer again, they got to tell us in advance so that we can book the space properly!20:31
pinnerjacob22: we should ask for sponsors to contribute to a better conference, not beer I think20:31
pboddieI mean, Google would have needed another IPO if they'd sponsored a restaurant meet-up here in Oslo.20:31
jacob22pinner: Point taken.20:31
pinnerGoogle were the smallest (monetary) sponsor to PyConUK20:32
lac_pboddie: :-) most expensive beer I ever drank was in the Oslo airport on the way to Vilnius last yet20:32
lac_year20:32
MrTopfI just remember that pizza price in Oslo20:32
* pinner needs to be leaving soon20:33
lac_Ok, more things we need to plan this evening?20:33
lac_or can we let johna nd zeth go?20:33
pboddieFees?20:33
pinnerSo my action is to see that we produce a test booking page in, say, two weeks?20:33
pinnerOK?20:34
jacob22pboddie: That needs to be part of budgeting.20:34
pboddiejacob22: I'll stay out of that!20:34
lac_We cannot set fees yet, because we don't have the buget yet20:34
pboddiepinner: Yes, I think we have enough time.20:34
pinnerWe'll use last year's fees for the test booking page20:34
lac_But if costs are about the same as last year, then prices should be too.20:34
pboddieWas my argument that registration could open as early as it is ready, so I won't mention the opening in the calendar.20:35
pinner+1 on registration20:35
pboddieIn other words, I'll keep the closing dates, but the fees and opening will remain secret.20:35
* lac_ nods at pboddie20:35
pinnerI'll say goodnight then20:36
lac_pboddie: did you post your webpage of the proposed ep new logos to ep and ep-improve?20:36
lac_take care john and zeth, and thank you.20:36
pinnerthanks20:36
pboddielac_: No, I'll do that now.20:36
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lac_thank you.20:36
lac_time to bang the gavel and declare the meeting over?20:37
lac_looks like it.20:37
jacob22When is next meeting?20:37
lac_ah.20:38
pboddieSame time next week?20:38
lac_I will make another doodle.  Next Thursday is bad for jacob22 and me20:38
moreatisame time same place?20:38
pboddieYes, we forgot the doodle last time, but everyone just assumed the same time anyway.20:38
lac_well if its the same time, then somebody else will have to run it, because I have a concert.20:39
lac_I have one the thursday after that, as well.20:39
pboddieA doodle with a deadline would solve the problem, I think.20:40
lac_thursdays are the days when i am most likely to be busy.20:40
lac_Ok, will go make one.20:40
lac_Now shall i close the meeting?20:40
jacob22I think so.20:40
pboddielac_: Fine by me.20:40
lac_BANG BANG BANG20:41
lac_meeting ajourned, thank you all.20:41
zethGoodnight all20:41
pboddiezeth: See you, and thanks for the info about MoinMoin.20:41
zethEnjoy your valentines evening everyone20:42
zeththanks pboddie20:42
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