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| zeth | Apologies for the meeting at 6pm, I have to go out | 19:01 |
|---|---|---|
| zeth | I will read back through the logs | 19:02 |
| mgedmin | 6 pm? | 19:04 |
| mgedmin | afaiu the meeting is at 7 pm (central european time) | 19:04 |
| dboddie_work | mgedmin: zeth is in the UK, as far as I know, so it's 6pm for him. | 19:16 |
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| pinner | Good evening! | 19:59 |
| mgedmin | hello | 19:59 |
| pboddie | Good evening! | 19:59 |
| pinner | Just 3 of us? | 20:00 |
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| kitblake | evening | 20:00 |
| pinner | Hello Kit | 20:01 |
| pboddie | A couple of minutes for everyone to check their IRC windows, perhaps? | 20:02 |
| dboddie_work | Evening! | 20:02 |
| pinner | Shall we start: we know that laura, samuele and zeth can't make it | 20:03 |
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| pinner | who's in the chair? You, Paul? | 20:04 |
| pboddie | Why not? People can follow the logs if they're late. | 20:04 |
| pinner | hello alex | 20:04 |
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| pboddie | Well, John, you seem to have written a few things up, so you might want to lead the meeting. | 20:04 |
| moreati | evening | 20:04 |
| pinner | if you isnsi | 20:05 |
| pinner | sorry, insist | 20:05 |
| pinner | Paul's wiki site for EP is now at http://europython.eu | 20:05 |
| pinner | I've started a page under events, for the organisers | 20:05 |
| pboddie | Shall I tidy up the syntax a bit? It's very plain text. | 20:06 |
| pinner | I used the events page, cos everything else was immutable | 20:06 |
| pboddie | Have you created an account for yourself? | 20:06 |
| pinner | yes, wikis are not my thing | 20:06 |
| pinner | I've listed the things we need to know before we do the registration page | 20:06 |
| pinner | maybe people responsible for other areas could do the same | 20:07 |
| pboddie | You should also be able to make pages, and then link to them. The participants is freely editable, and the volunteers page can be edited, too. | 20:07 |
| pinner | so who is responsibel for other things? | 20:07 |
| pboddie | I can move stuff around if you want and give you extra privileges. What's your username? | 20:08 |
| pinner | pboddie: JohnPinner is my name | 20:08 |
| pinner | Laura is in charge of Finance, but she wants help. | 20:09 |
| pinner | anyone want to help her? | 20:09 |
| pboddie | I think Laura might want to suggest specific roles, although the volunteers page makes some of those quite clear. | 20:09 |
| pinner | She's made some suggestions in the agenda | 20:10 |
| pinner | Like Samuele should be responsible for the talks | 20:10 |
| pinner | is Everyone happy with that? | 20:10 |
| pboddie | He doesn't seem to be here, but he certainly seems to have strong opinions on the matter. ;-) | 20:11 |
| pinner | Well, he's in charge of Talks then! | 20:11 |
| moreati | no objection | 20:12 |
| pinner | if no objections I'll take that as carried nem con then | 20:12 |
| pboddie | He'll have a shock when he reads the logs. ;-) | 20:12 |
| pboddie | pinner: I've added you to all the groups except AdminGroup, because even I can't edit AdminGroup (but I guess Zeth can). | 20:13 |
| pinner | Does anyone want to help him? that would make the shock less | 20:13 |
| pinner | pboddie: thanks | 20:13 |
| pboddie | I think we can solicit support from the community on this. | 20:13 |
| pinner | OK, no volunteers, Samuele will have some recruiting to do | 20:14 |
| dboddie_work | Did everyone see Laura's agenda? | 20:14 |
| dboddie_work | http://mail.python.org/mailman/private/europython-improve/2008-February/000049.html | 20:14 |
| pinner | yes | 20:14 |
| moreati | yes, I'll help with talks if there are no objections | 20:15 |
| pinner | next subject: Budget. Laura is in charge. Any volunteers to help her? | 20:15 |
| pinner | thanks alex | 20:15 |
| pinner | It's not a good night for volunteers | 20:16 |
| pboddie | That'll teach me for not reading mail. I'm not inclined personally to get involved with budgetary matters, but I'm sure that we can check things if she's specific. | 20:16 |
| pinner | and I guess Aiste will have a lot of input | 20:17 |
| pboddie | I'm not really familiar with what budget people do in these circumstances. I can imagine that there'll be some work checking payments and stuff, projecting attendance, and so on. | 20:17 |
| pboddie | Would anyone object to the attendance figures breakdown being made available? It's semi-public information anyway. | 20:17 |
| pinner | I have an oocalc spreadsheet I'm using for conferences: I'll send a copy to Laura | 20:17 |
| pboddie | (For last year, obviously.) | 20:18 |
| pinner | I don't think that would be a problem | 20:18 |
| pinner | but I don't know who has it, Laura or Aiste I guess | 20:19 |
| pinner | will you get it and publish on the wiki, Paul? | 20:19 |
| pboddie | Yes, I have some Indico data which would give rough estimates about attendance around which we can make projections. | 20:19 |
| pinner | OK, and hopefully this year may be better | 20:20 |
| pboddie | Although I hope that we can attract more people this time around by being a bit more prepared. ;-) | 20:20 |
| pboddie | Perhaps a call for ... is required in different areas. A call for reviewers, for example. I'm sure PyCon teaches us a few things if we look at their announcements. | 20:21 |
| moreati | sounds like a good notion | 20:21 |
| pinner | Yes, that's where the wiki could help, and we have the EP list | 20:21 |
| pinner | OK, so Laura is responsible for Budget, aided by Aiste and others she has to recruit | 20:21 |
| pinner | and Paul is going to put last year's attendance on the wiki | 20:22 |
| pinner | Next Item: core website (wiki) | 20:22 |
| pboddie | Yes. (The Wiki isn't behaving very nicely right now - MoinMoin errors every so often.) | 20:22 |
| pinner | memo to Zeth: check out the wiki (he's logging this but isn't here) | 20:23 |
| pinner | Paul, your responsible for the wiki I believe, is that OK? | 20:23 |
| pboddie | Yes, I'll take responsibility for the content, and I can help Zeth with any infrastructure problems. | 20:24 |
| pinner | Good, thanks. What other help do you need? | 20:25 |
| pboddie | Well, some people volunteered to help monitor the Wiki for spam, and Laura pointed me to a usability person who should be reading europython-improve. | 20:26 |
| pinner | Ok, but doesn't address content | 20:26 |
| pboddie | I've also been discussing the logo with Jeroen (who posted a logo a while back), and there should be a vote on this at some point. | 20:26 |
| pinner | I like that logo, but it needs a grapgic artist to finish it | 20:27 |
| pinner | or even graphic | 20:27 |
| pboddie | As for content, I've updated some of the stuff about visas and passports since Lithuania has integrated itself more with the EU, but it'd be good if people contributed their experiences from last year. | 20:27 |
| pinner | Any other observations on the wiki? | 20:27 |
| pboddie | (I'm thinking that the Wiki's problems with pickling may be due to some Python versioning issues, but that's my initial guess.) | 20:28 |
| pboddie | I intend to bring up the logo on the europython-improve list for a bit more active discussion. | 20:28 |
| dboddie_work | It might also be useful for people to suggest what they want as talks. | 20:29 |
| moreati | One minor nitpick. The design is nice, but with so many items in the bar along the top, it wraps | 20:29 |
| pboddie | Photographs from last year would also be nice. I just used Dave's pictures to begin with. | 20:29 |
| pinner | (pickle technical detail: let Zeth sort that out) | 20:29 |
| dboddie_work | Though it seemed to be only partially successful for PyCon UK. | 20:29 |
| pboddie | The "navibar" can be configured. If Zeth is reading this, he'll know that the ep2008.py file contains the default contents of the navibar, and we may decide to drop one or two of the entries. | 20:30 |
| pinner | dboddie: what was partially successful? | 20:30 |
| pboddie | We had the same problem with the old site, if I remember. | 20:30 |
| pinner | No more on the wiki content? | 20:30 |
| dboddie_work | pinner: I think there were a few ideas to start with but then they dried up. | 20:31 |
| pinner | dboddie_work: you mean talks, or pictures | 20:31 |
| moreati | I haven't anything for the wiki, atm | 20:31 |
| dboddie_work | pinner: Talk ideas. Lots of the same people with suggestions. I guess that's how it is with conferences. | 20:32 |
| pinner | OK, wiki content: Paul will coordinate it, | 20:32 |
| pinner | and I guess as it builds delegates and organisers will populate it | 20:32 |
| pboddie | Right. I'll nag on the list repeatedly until people start to contribute. ;-) | 20:32 |
| pinner | dboddie_work: it was a real problem getting the talks, this year we're going to ask what talks they'd like repeated from last year | 20:33 |
| pinner | Next item: Registration | 20:33 |
| pinner | Like I said earlier, I've put what info we need on the wiki | 20:34 |
| pinner | Mostly it's to do with the budget, and up to Laura | 20:34 |
| pinner | But we need to set a time table, like for early bird closing date | 20:35 |
| pinner | any proposals? | 20:35 |
| pinner | and for when we announce of course | 20:35 |
| pinner | deafening silence | 20:36 |
| pinner | Let's go for announce by the end of the month, 29th February | 20:36 |
| pboddie | Well, the timetable is always interconnected. | 20:36 |
| pinner | any objections? | 20:36 |
| moreati | pycon uk was announced T minus four months | 20:36 |
| pinner | that would be consistent | 20:37 |
| pboddie | We need to put in sequence the call for talks, talks deadline, talks schedule announcement, registration, early deadline, normal deadline. | 20:37 |
| moreati | end of feb would make this announcement roughly the same, we need to give atleast the same notice so yes for end of month | 20:37 |
| pboddie | zeth: http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/WikiDictsRaisePicklingError | 20:37 |
| pboddie | I think I said to Dave privately that the end of the month for announcing a call for talks. | 20:38 |
| pinner | the three talks dates will be up to samuele | 20:38 |
| pinner | but we need decisions now | 20:38 |
| pinner | let's decide | 20:39 |
| moreati | 3 talk dates being call for proposals, dealine for submissions, announcement of talks? | 20:39 |
| dboddie_work | Since we have a date for the conference, we should ask for talks as soon as possible. | 20:39 |
| pinner | site live and call for talks by end of February? | 20:39 |
| dboddie_work | It's up to the implementation team for the talks site, but feel free to push them. :-) | 20:40 |
| dboddie_work | Will we have a submissions system in three weeks? | 20:40 |
| pinner | I think the idea is to do the talks submissions by email | 20:40 |
| pboddie | I think so. We shouldn't leave it as late as it has been. People get edgy and say that they can't decide about registering until they know what's on offer. | 20:40 |
| pinner | which doesn't give a time constraint | 20:41 |
| pboddie | Personally, I don't see any problem in there being an e-mail alias which populates an archived mailing list with talk submissions. | 20:41 |
| xorAxAx | to a mailinglist? | 20:41 |
| pinner | this is difficult without the right people here | 20:42 |
| dboddie_work | We can say the end of February. There are two meeting between now and then for people to speak up. | 20:43 |
| pboddie | zeth: http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/CrashAfterCreatingAdminGroup | 20:43 |
| pinner | alex, as you volunteered to help Samuele, please will you draft a proposal to him? | 20:43 |
| pboddie | zeth: It's a mod_python interaction thing as xorAxAx can attest. ;-) | 20:43 |
| moreati | ok, sounds like KISS is the watch word. I've no objection to the mailing list. Even if it's not the final system, a mailing list archive could be imported into whatever replaces it | 20:43 |
| pinner | which would enable us to get going before the end of the month? | 20:43 |
| xorAxAx | pboddie: yes, it seems to stress bad code more | 20:43 |
| dboddie_work | pinner: Yes. | 20:43 |
| moreati | pinner: ok | 20:43 |
| xorAxAx | pboddie: the responsible author finally rewrote the code in 1.7 :-) | 20:43 |
| pboddie | pinner: I say "go for it"! | 20:43 |
| dboddie_work | pboddie: Have you worked back from the conference date to figure out when the announcements should be? | 20:44 |
| pinner | OK, decision on talks then | 20:44 |
| pboddie | dboddie_work: Too busy looking at stuff and following this meeting. | 20:44 |
| moreati | I'll post a proposal to epy-imp tommorow | 20:44 |
| dboddie_work | pboddie: Same here. | 20:44 |
| pinner | paul/david, will you draft a timetable and post on the wiki? | 20:44 |
| pboddie | Yes, I'll take a look at the past form and try and suggest a timetable. | 20:46 |
| pinner | thanks, I think that's as much as we can do on that tonight | 20:46 |
| pinner | next: sponsorship | 20:46 |
| moreati | pboddie: check http://pyconuk.org/news/ for the sequence that pycon uk followed | 20:47 |
| pinner | Jacob is going to do that, so we can move on to publicity | 20:47 |
| pboddie | moreati: OK | 20:47 |
| pinner | who's up for publicity? | 20:47 |
| pinner | If we have no offers, let's post it on the EP list | 20:48 |
| pboddie | I don't mind doing some announcements. It should be quite routine after last year's hard work. | 20:48 |
| pboddie | I guess we should announce the dates as soon as possible. | 20:49 |
| pinner | thanks, Paul | 20:49 |
| pinner | Ok, Paul is going to do some announcements, and we'll ask for help on the EP list, OK? | 20:50 |
| moreati | ok | 20:50 |
| pinner | Next: Sprints | 20:50 |
| pinner | I think that can wait until a later meeting | 20:50 |
| pinner | it's not important just now | 20:50 |
| pinner | agreed? | 20:50 |
| moreati | no objection | 20:51 |
| dboddie_work | Sure | 20:51 |
| pboddie | pinner: Fine by me. We can whip up enthusiasm as we go. | 20:51 |
| pinner | OK | 20:51 |
| pinner | Next: Keynotes | 20:51 |
| pinner | this we do need to discuss, it always is more trouble than you think | 20:52 |
| dboddie_work | Any ideas? | 20:52 |
| pinner | Well, I guess we'll get GvR | 20:52 |
| pinner | He told me he can't do PyCon UK because he's doing EuroPython | 20:52 |
| pboddie | I heard that GvR won't be there this year. | 20:53 |
| pinner | not what he told me, | 20:53 |
| pboddie | I'd have to dig to find the quote, but I'm sure someone mentioned this in connection with EuroPython. | 20:53 |
| pinner | I'll ask him | 20:53 |
| pinner | who else? | 20:53 |
| pboddie | Personally, I was hoping for Xah Lee as a keynote speaker. ;-) | 20:54 |
| pinner | tell me more | 20:54 |
| pinner | silence on keynotes, then. Let's hope Laura has some ideas | 20:55 |
| pboddie | I've put my foot in it now. This was more of a joke than anything else: Xah Lee is one of these people who sends inflamatory messages to comp.lang.python. | 20:55 |
| dboddie_work | I can't really think of anyone inspirational enough to be a keynote speaker. | 20:55 |
| pinner | Steve Holden gives a good talk | 20:55 |
| pboddie | Ahem: "inflammatory" | 20:56 |
| dboddie_work | (We were rather spoilt in 2006, I feel.) | 20:56 |
| dboddie_work | Steve sounded interested in attending EuroPython this year. | 20:56 |
| pboddie | I can think of a few interesting people, but perhaps not keynote material. | 20:56 |
| pinner | OK, let's adjourn the keynote discussion, maybe ask on the list? | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | anthony baxter is a very good speaker | 20:56 |
| pinner | Good point, Anthony would be really provocative, and inspirational | 20:57 |
| dboddie_work | mgedmin: Sounds interesting. Isn't he based in Australia? | 20:57 |
| mgedmin | yes | 20:57 |
| pboddie | Like Lawrence Tratt: http://convergepl.org/ http://www.tratt.net/laurie/ | 20:57 |
| kitblake | I asked GvR, he said: hat's a schroedinger's cat kind of question. I haven't decided yet. I will give a keynote either way -- but it may be as VC | 20:57 |
| dboddie_work | So, we at least have a list of interesting people. :-) | 20:58 |
| pboddie | There was no OLPC representation last year. Are there any other "Python inside" projects hitting the big radar screen? | 20:58 |
| pinner | So, we may have GvR, and let's ask Anthony Baxter. | 20:58 |
| pinner | Agreed? | 20:58 |
| pboddie | I think it's virtually obligatory to check with GvR. | 20:59 |
| pinner | Who knows, with Nokia buying up certain companies ;) | 20:59 |
| kitblake | pboddie: I just did | 20:59 |
| dboddie_work | pinner: Indeed. :-( | 20:59 |
| kitblake | :) | 20:59 |
| pboddie | Anyone from FFII, perhaps. :-/ | 20:59 |
| pboddie | Actually, I thought that the FSFE and Creative Commons guys at EuroPython 2005 were good. | 21:00 |
| pinner | Ok, we have some ideas, we're going to ask AB, I think Laura should do that | 21:00 |
| pinner | let's move on | 21:00 |
| pinner | Laura said, do we want any themes? | 21:01 |
| dboddie_work | Pirates? ;-) | 21:01 |
| pinner | Py3K for instance | 21:01 |
| kitblake | Py3k is certainly an issue | 21:01 |
| pboddie | I mentioned panel discussions last year and the response was lukewarm. | 21:02 |
| moreati | mobile computing? | 21:02 |
| dboddie_work | It certainly is after last year. | 21:02 |
| kitblake | http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/01/1624247 | 21:02 |
| dboddie_work | There you go: Anthony has to come and explain himself. :-) | 21:02 |
| pboddie | I suggested a panel on Py3K involving at least GvR and Faassen, but Martijn was trying to shy away from the controversy he'd stirred up. | 21:02 |
| pinner | if we had a mobile theme this should be good for sponsorship | 21:02 |
| pinner | from Nokia for a start | 21:03 |
| kitblake | yes Martijn doesn't want to go up against Guido | 21:03 |
| pinner | pboddie: good, let's get something stirred up! | 21:03 |
| kitblake | not the role he wants to play | 21:03 |
| kitblake | but stir away :) | 21:03 |
| pboddie | I have to say, and I know it's on record, that the Python on Series 60 talk last year was really disappointing. 2 years on and the only news is that they've totally DRM'd the platform. | 21:04 |
| kitblake | we should get mobile in there somehow | 21:04 |
| pinner | something good could come out of a rational public discussion | 21:04 |
| pinner | so we have Mobile and Py3K | 21:04 |
| dboddie_work | You have to have Web, of course. | 21:04 |
| pboddie | I think we can frame any Py3K stuff as how you'd plan migration or maintenance of existing stuff. | 21:04 |
| pinner | maybe others will have some ideas when they read this | 21:04 |
| moreati | I'm trying to think of an oss in goverment angle, but I don't think it's strong enough | 21:04 |
| pboddie | I doubt that I'm not the only one not intending to move to Py3K in the foreseeable future. | 21:05 |
| moreati | the angle I mean | 21:05 |
| pinner | or teaching? | 21:05 |
| pinner | OK, we have some ideas on themes: more will come | 21:05 |
| pboddie | And we can always copy other conferences. | 21:05 |
| pinner | why not? | 21:06 |
| pinner | Now, next item(s) | 21:06 |
| kitblake | moreati: there's an interesting initiative in the Zope/Plone world happening: http://plonegov.org/ | 21:06 |
| kitblake | we could get someome from that group if you wish | 21:06 |
| pinner | I think all the other things need Aiste and Laura | 21:06 |
| pinner | so we can't usefully discuss them | 21:07 |
| moreati | kitblake: I'll check it out | 21:07 |
| kitblake | GvR said "the mobillenin guy could be fun, jurgen scheible" | 21:07 |
| pboddie | Yes, I think that the timetable issues are the main things for the rest of us. | 21:07 |
| kitblake | for mobile Python | 21:07 |
| pinner | let's minute Aiste and Laura to put what they need from the rest of us on the wiki | 21:07 |
| pboddie | Or some OpenMoko people. | 21:07 |
| pboddie | pinner: Or to the list. Either way we can read and respond. | 21:08 |
| pinner | if that's OK, is there any other business? | 21:08 |
| moreati | pboddie: good call, it might even be in production by JUly :) | 21:08 |
| moreati | none from me | 21:08 |
| pboddie | What about feedback from last year? | 21:08 |
| pinner | pboddie: I'm really behind in processing that! Should be able to get it done next week | 21:09 |
| pboddie | That way we can know about things like fees. | 21:09 |
| pinner | If there's no more business we can declare the meeting closed | 21:11 |
| pinner | but carry on informally if any one wishes | 21:11 |
| dboddie_work | OK | 21:11 |
| pboddie | I think we've done well. Thanks for chairing, John. | 21:12 |
| kitblake | thanks | 21:12 |
| pinner | paul, will you write up minutes like last time? | 21:12 |
| pboddie | Yes, I'm doing so now. | 21:13 |
| pinner | great | 21:13 |
| pinner | Good night every one, thanks for coming | 21:14 |
| dboddie_work | pinner: See you. | 21:14 |
| pinner | dboddie: have you started learning Finnish? | 21:15 |
| dboddie_work | pinner: There's a standard response to that question - but this is a family channel. | 21:15 |
| dboddie_work | pinner: Besides, I'm typing this from work. | 21:15 |
| pboddie | pinner: Tune into the late night podcast for the full answer. | 21:15 |
| dboddie_work | pinner: Talk to Mark for more information. | 21:16 |
| pinner | dboddie_work: I'm off to Helsinki next month, teaching them Python, so I'll miss PyCon | 21:16 |
| pboddie | pinner: Thinking of family broadcasting, do you intend to involve Jono Bacon in EuroPython or PyCon UK this time around? | 21:16 |
| pinner | pboddie: yes, I think they'll be up for it again | 21:17 |
| pboddie | I wonder if JB couldn't be plumbed for Ubuntu connections. Ubuntu is always popular. | 21:17 |
| pinner | pboddie: I'm not sure of the connection between Jono and family broadcasting... | 21:17 |
| pinner | pboddie: Michael Hudson and SteveA may be more useful | 21:18 |
| mgedmin | I think the connection you're not sure of is "not a good match for" | 21:19 |
| * pinner needs to go home | 21:19 | |
| pinner | good night, all | 21:20 |
| pboddie | I've never listened to his work, let alone his new album. :-) | 21:20 |
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| pboddie | pinner: Good night! | 21:20 |
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