IRC log of #europython for Thursday, 2008-02-07

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zethApologies for the meeting at 6pm, I have to go out19:01
zethI will read back through the logs19:02
mgedmin6 pm?19:04
mgedminafaiu the meeting is at 7 pm (central european time)19:04
dboddie_workmgedmin: zeth is in the UK, as far as I know, so it's 6pm for him.19:16
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pinnerGood evening!19:59
mgedminhello19:59
pboddieGood evening!19:59
pinnerJust 3 of us?20:00
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kitblakeevening20:00
pinnerHello Kit20:01
pboddieA couple of minutes for everyone to check their IRC windows, perhaps?20:02
dboddie_workEvening!20:02
pinnerShall we start: we know that laura, samuele and zeth can't make it20:03
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pinnerwho's in the chair? You, Paul?20:04
pboddieWhy not? People can follow the logs if they're late.20:04
pinnerhello alex20:04
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pboddieWell, John, you seem to have written a few things up, so you might want to lead the meeting.20:04
moreatievening20:04
pinnerif you isnsi20:05
pinnersorry, insist20:05
pinnerPaul's wiki site for EP is now at http://europython.eu20:05
pinnerI've started a page under events, for the organisers20:05
pboddieShall I tidy up the syntax a bit? It's very plain text.20:06
pinnerI used the events page, cos everything else was immutable20:06
pboddieHave you created an account for yourself?20:06
pinneryes, wikis are not my thing20:06
pinnerI've listed the things we need to know before we do the registration page20:06
pinnermaybe people responsible for other areas could do the same20:07
pboddieYou should also be able to make pages, and then link to them. The participants is freely editable, and the volunteers page can be edited, too.20:07
pinnerso who is responsibel for other things?20:07
pboddieI can move stuff around if you want and give you extra privileges. What's your username?20:08
pinnerpboddie: JohnPinner is my name20:08
pinnerLaura is in charge of Finance, but she wants help.20:09
pinneranyone want to help her?20:09
pboddieI think Laura might want to suggest specific roles, although the volunteers page makes some of those quite clear.20:09
pinnerShe's made some suggestions in the agenda20:10
pinnerLike Samuele should be responsible for the talks20:10
pinneris Everyone happy with that?20:10
pboddieHe doesn't seem to be here, but he certainly seems to have strong opinions on the matter. ;-)20:11
pinnerWell, he's in charge of Talks then!20:11
moreatino objection20:12
pinnerif no objections I'll take that as carried nem con then20:12
pboddieHe'll have a shock when he reads the logs. ;-)20:12
pboddiepinner: I've added you to all the groups except AdminGroup, because even I can't edit AdminGroup (but I guess Zeth can).20:13
pinnerDoes anyone want to help him? that would make the shock less20:13
pinnerpboddie: thanks20:13
pboddieI think we can solicit support from the community on this.20:13
pinnerOK, no volunteers, Samuele will have some recruiting to do20:14
dboddie_workDid everyone see Laura's agenda?20:14
dboddie_workhttp://mail.python.org/mailman/private/europython-improve/2008-February/000049.html20:14
pinneryes20:14
moreatiyes, I'll help with talks if there are no objections20:15
pinnernext subject: Budget. Laura is in charge. Any volunteers to help her?20:15
pinnerthanks alex20:15
pinnerIt's not a good night for volunteers20:16
pboddieThat'll teach me for not reading mail. I'm not inclined personally to get involved with budgetary matters, but I'm sure that we can check things if she's specific.20:16
pinnerand I guess Aiste will have a lot of input20:17
pboddieI'm not really familiar with what budget people do in these circumstances. I can imagine that there'll be some work checking payments and stuff, projecting attendance, and so on.20:17
pboddieWould anyone object to the attendance figures breakdown being made available? It's semi-public information anyway.20:17
pinnerI have an oocalc spreadsheet I'm using for conferences: I'll send a copy to Laura20:17
pboddie(For last year, obviously.)20:18
pinnerI don't think that would be a problem20:18
pinnerbut I don't know who has it, Laura or Aiste I guess20:19
pinnerwill you get it and publish on the wiki, Paul?20:19
pboddieYes, I have some Indico data which would give rough estimates about attendance around which we can make projections.20:19
pinnerOK, and hopefully this year may be better20:20
pboddieAlthough I hope that we can attract more people this time around by being a bit more prepared. ;-)20:20
pboddiePerhaps a call for ... is required in different areas. A call for reviewers, for example. I'm sure PyCon teaches us a few things if we look at their announcements.20:21
moreatisounds like a good notion20:21
pinnerYes, that's where the wiki could help, and we have the EP list20:21
pinnerOK, so Laura is responsible for Budget, aided by Aiste and others she has to recruit20:21
pinnerand Paul is going to put last year's attendance on the wiki20:22
pinnerNext Item: core website (wiki)20:22
pboddieYes. (The Wiki isn't behaving very nicely right now - MoinMoin errors every so often.)20:22
pinnermemo to Zeth: check out the wiki (he's logging this but isn't here)20:23
pinnerPaul, your responsible for the wiki I believe, is that OK?20:23
pboddieYes, I'll take responsibility for the content, and I can help Zeth with any infrastructure problems.20:24
pinnerGood, thanks. What other help do you need?20:25
pboddieWell, some people volunteered to help monitor the Wiki for spam, and Laura pointed me to a usability person who should be reading europython-improve.20:26
pinnerOk, but doesn't address content20:26
pboddieI've also been discussing the logo with Jeroen (who posted a logo a while back), and there should be a vote on this at some point.20:26
pinnerI like that logo, but it needs a grapgic artist to finish it20:27
pinneror even graphic20:27
pboddieAs for content, I've updated some of the stuff about visas and passports since Lithuania has integrated itself more with the EU, but it'd be good if people contributed their experiences from last year.20:27
pinnerAny other observations on the wiki?20:27
pboddie(I'm thinking that the Wiki's problems with pickling may be due to some Python versioning issues, but that's my initial guess.)20:28
pboddieI intend to bring up the logo on the europython-improve list for a bit more active discussion.20:28
dboddie_workIt might also be useful for people to suggest what they want as talks.20:29
moreatiOne minor nitpick. The design is nice, but with so many items in the bar along the top, it wraps20:29
pboddiePhotographs from last year would also be nice. I just used Dave's pictures to begin with.20:29
pinner(pickle technical detail: let Zeth sort that out)20:29
dboddie_workThough it seemed to be only partially successful for PyCon UK.20:29
pboddieThe "navibar" can be configured. If Zeth is reading this, he'll know that the ep2008.py file contains the default contents of the navibar, and we may decide to drop one or two of the entries.20:30
pinnerdboddie: what was partially successful?20:30
pboddieWe had the same problem with the old site, if I remember.20:30
pinnerNo more on the wiki content?20:30
dboddie_workpinner: I think there were a few ideas to start with but then they dried up.20:31
pinnerdboddie_work: you mean talks, or pictures20:31
moreatiI haven't anything for the wiki, atm20:31
dboddie_workpinner: Talk ideas. Lots of the same people with suggestions. I guess that's how it is with conferences.20:32
pinnerOK, wiki content: Paul will coordinate it,20:32
pinnerand I guess as it builds delegates and organisers will populate it20:32
pboddieRight. I'll nag on the list repeatedly until people start to contribute. ;-)20:32
pinnerdboddie_work: it was a real problem getting the talks, this year we're going to ask what talks they'd like repeated from last year20:33
pinnerNext item: Registration20:33
pinnerLike I said earlier, I've put what info we need on the wiki20:34
pinnerMostly it's to do with the budget, and up to Laura20:34
pinnerBut we need to set a time table, like for early bird closing date20:35
pinnerany proposals?20:35
pinnerand for when we announce of course20:35
pinnerdeafening silence20:36
pinnerLet's go for announce by the end of the month, 29th February20:36
pboddieWell, the timetable is always interconnected.20:36
pinnerany objections?20:36
moreatipycon uk was announced T minus four months20:36
pinnerthat would be consistent20:37
pboddieWe need to put in sequence the call for talks, talks deadline, talks schedule announcement, registration, early deadline, normal deadline.20:37
moreatiend of feb would make this announcement roughly the same, we need to give atleast the same notice so yes for end of month20:37
pboddiezeth: http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/WikiDictsRaisePicklingError20:37
pboddieI think I said to Dave privately that the end of the month for announcing a call for talks.20:38
pinnerthe three talks dates will be up to samuele20:38
pinnerbut we need decisions now20:38
pinnerlet's decide20:39
moreati3 talk dates being call for proposals, dealine for submissions, announcement of talks?20:39
dboddie_workSince we have a date for the conference, we should ask for talks as soon as possible.20:39
pinnersite live and call for talks by end of February?20:39
dboddie_workIt's up to the implementation team for the talks site, but feel free to push them. :-)20:40
dboddie_workWill we have a submissions system in three weeks?20:40
pinnerI think the idea is to do the talks submissions by email20:40
pboddieI think so. We shouldn't leave it as late as it has been. People get edgy and say that they can't decide about registering until they know what's on offer.20:40
pinnerwhich doesn't give a time constraint20:41
pboddiePersonally, I don't see any problem in there being an e-mail alias which populates an archived mailing list with talk submissions.20:41
xorAxAxto a mailinglist?20:41
pinnerthis is difficult without the right people here20:42
dboddie_workWe can say the end of February. There are two meeting between now and then for people to speak up.20:43
pboddiezeth: http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/CrashAfterCreatingAdminGroup20:43
pinneralex, as you volunteered to help Samuele, please will you draft a proposal to him?20:43
pboddiezeth: It's a mod_python interaction thing as xorAxAx can attest. ;-)20:43
moreatiok, sounds like KISS is the watch word. I've no objection to the mailing list. Even if it's not the final system, a mailing list archive could be imported into whatever replaces it20:43
pinnerwhich would enable us to get going before the end of the month?20:43
xorAxAxpboddie: yes, it seems to stress bad code more20:43
dboddie_workpinner: Yes.20:43
moreatipinner: ok20:43
xorAxAxpboddie: the responsible author finally rewrote the code in 1.7 :-)20:43
pboddiepinner: I say "go for it"!20:43
dboddie_workpboddie: Have you worked back from the conference date to figure out when the announcements should be?20:44
pinnerOK, decision on talks then20:44
pboddiedboddie_work: Too busy looking at stuff and following this meeting.20:44
moreatiI'll post a proposal to  epy-imp tommorow20:44
dboddie_workpboddie: Same here.20:44
pinnerpaul/david, will you draft a timetable and post on the wiki?20:44
pboddieYes, I'll take a look at the past form and try and suggest a timetable.20:46
pinnerthanks, I think that's as much as we can do on that tonight20:46
pinnernext: sponsorship20:46
moreatipboddie: check http://pyconuk.org/news/ for the sequence that pycon uk followed20:47
pinnerJacob is going to do that, so we can move on to publicity20:47
pboddiemoreati: OK20:47
pinnerwho's up for publicity?20:47
pinnerIf we have no offers, let's post it on the EP list20:48
pboddieI don't mind doing some announcements. It should be quite routine after last year's hard work.20:48
pboddieI guess we should announce the dates as soon as possible.20:49
pinnerthanks, Paul20:49
pinnerOk, Paul is going to do some announcements, and we'll ask for help on the EP list, OK?20:50
moreatiok20:50
pinnerNext: Sprints20:50
pinnerI think that can wait until a later meeting20:50
pinnerit's not important just now20:50
pinneragreed?20:50
moreatino objection20:51
dboddie_workSure20:51
pboddiepinner: Fine by me. We can whip up enthusiasm as we go.20:51
pinnerOK20:51
pinnerNext: Keynotes20:51
pinnerthis we do need to discuss, it always is more trouble than you think20:52
dboddie_workAny ideas?20:52
pinnerWell, I guess we'll get GvR20:52
pinnerHe told me he can't do PyCon UK because he's doing EuroPython20:52
pboddieI heard that GvR won't be there this year.20:53
pinnernot what he told me,20:53
pboddieI'd have to dig to find the quote, but I'm sure someone mentioned this in connection with EuroPython.20:53
pinnerI'll ask him20:53
pinnerwho else?20:53
pboddiePersonally, I was hoping for Xah Lee as a keynote speaker. ;-)20:54
pinnertell me more20:54
pinnersilence on keynotes, then. Let's hope Laura has some ideas20:55
pboddieI've put my foot in it now. This was more of a joke than anything else: Xah Lee is one of these people who sends inflamatory messages to comp.lang.python.20:55
dboddie_workI can't really think of anyone inspirational enough to be a keynote speaker.20:55
pinnerSteve Holden gives a good talk20:55
pboddieAhem: "inflammatory"20:56
dboddie_work(We were rather spoilt in 2006, I feel.)20:56
dboddie_workSteve sounded interested in attending EuroPython this year.20:56
pboddieI can think of a few interesting people, but perhaps not keynote material.20:56
pinnerOK, let's adjourn the keynote discussion, maybe ask on the list?20:56
mgedminanthony baxter is a very good speaker20:56
pinnerGood point, Anthony would be really provocative, and inspirational20:57
dboddie_workmgedmin: Sounds interesting. Isn't he based in Australia?20:57
mgedminyes20:57
pboddieLike Lawrence Tratt: http://convergepl.org/ http://www.tratt.net/laurie/20:57
kitblakeI asked GvR, he said: hat's a schroedinger's cat kind of question. I haven't decided yet. I will give a keynote either way -- but it may be as VC20:57
dboddie_workSo, we at least have a list of interesting people. :-)20:58
pboddieThere was no OLPC representation last year. Are there any other "Python inside" projects hitting the big radar screen?20:58
pinnerSo, we may have GvR, and let's ask Anthony Baxter.20:58
pinnerAgreed?20:58
pboddieI think it's virtually obligatory to check with GvR.20:59
pinnerWho knows, with Nokia buying up certain companies ;)20:59
kitblakepboddie: I just did20:59
dboddie_workpinner: Indeed. :-(20:59
kitblake:)20:59
pboddieAnyone from FFII, perhaps. :-/20:59
pboddieActually, I thought that the FSFE and Creative Commons guys at EuroPython 2005 were good.21:00
pinnerOk, we have some ideas, we're going to ask AB, I think Laura should do that21:00
pinnerlet's move on21:00
pinnerLaura said, do we want any themes?21:01
dboddie_workPirates? ;-)21:01
pinnerPy3K for instance21:01
kitblakePy3k is certainly an issue21:01
pboddieI mentioned panel discussions last year and the response was lukewarm.21:02
moreatimobile computing?21:02
dboddie_workIt certainly is after last year.21:02
kitblakehttp://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/01/162424721:02
dboddie_workThere you go: Anthony has to come and explain himself. :-)21:02
pboddieI suggested a panel on Py3K involving at least GvR and Faassen, but Martijn was trying to shy away from the controversy he'd stirred up.21:02
pinnerif we had a mobile theme this should be good for sponsorship21:02
pinnerfrom Nokia for a start21:03
kitblakeyes Martijn doesn't want to go up against Guido21:03
pinnerpboddie: good, let's get something stirred up!21:03
kitblakenot the role he wants to play21:03
kitblakebut stir away :)21:03
pboddieI have to say, and I know it's on record, that the Python on Series 60 talk last year was really disappointing. 2 years on and the only news is that they've totally DRM'd the platform.21:04
kitblakewe should get mobile in there somehow21:04
pinnersomething good could come out of a rational public discussion21:04
pinnerso we have Mobile and Py3K21:04
dboddie_workYou have to have Web, of course.21:04
pboddieI think we can frame any Py3K stuff as how you'd plan migration or maintenance of existing stuff.21:04
pinnermaybe others will have some ideas when they read this21:04
moreatiI'm trying to think of an oss in goverment angle, but I don't think it's strong enough21:04
pboddieI doubt that I'm not the only one not intending to move to Py3K in the foreseeable future.21:05
moreatithe angle I mean21:05
pinneror teaching?21:05
pinnerOK, we have some ideas on themes: more will come21:05
pboddieAnd we can always copy other conferences.21:05
pinnerwhy not?21:06
pinnerNow, next item(s)21:06
kitblakemoreati: there's an interesting initiative in the Zope/Plone world happening: http://plonegov.org/21:06
kitblakewe could get someome from that group if you wish21:06
pinnerI think all the other things need Aiste and Laura21:06
pinnerso we can't usefully discuss them21:07
moreatikitblake: I'll check it out21:07
kitblakeGvR said "the mobillenin guy could be fun, jurgen scheible"21:07
pboddieYes, I think that the timetable issues are the main things for the rest of us.21:07
kitblakefor mobile Python21:07
pinnerlet's minute Aiste and Laura to put what they need from the rest of us on the wiki21:07
pboddieOr some OpenMoko people.21:07
pboddiepinner: Or to the list. Either way we can read and respond.21:08
pinnerif that's OK, is there any other business?21:08
moreatipboddie: good call, it might even be in production by JUly :)21:08
moreatinone from me21:08
pboddieWhat about feedback from last year?21:08
pinnerpboddie: I'm really behind in processing that! Should be able to get it done next week21:09
pboddieThat way we can know about things like fees.21:09
pinnerIf there's no more business we can declare the meeting closed21:11
pinnerbut carry on informally if any one wishes21:11
dboddie_workOK21:11
pboddieI think we've done well. Thanks for chairing, John.21:12
kitblakethanks21:12
pinnerpaul, will you write up minutes like last time?21:12
pboddieYes, I'm doing so now.21:13
pinnergreat21:13
pinnerGood night every one, thanks for coming21:14
dboddie_workpinner: See you.21:14
pinnerdboddie: have you started learning Finnish?21:15
dboddie_workpinner: There's a standard response to that question - but this is a family channel.21:15
dboddie_workpinner: Besides, I'm typing this from work.21:15
pboddiepinner: Tune into the late night podcast for the full answer.21:15
dboddie_workpinner: Talk to Mark for more information.21:16
pinnerdboddie_work: I'm off to Helsinki next month, teaching them Python, so I'll miss PyCon21:16
pboddiepinner: Thinking of family broadcasting, do you intend to involve Jono Bacon in EuroPython or PyCon UK this time around?21:16
pinnerpboddie: yes, I think they'll be up for it again21:17
pboddieI wonder if JB couldn't be plumbed for Ubuntu connections. Ubuntu is always popular.21:17
pinnerpboddie: I'm not sure of the connection between Jono and family broadcasting...21:17
pinnerpboddie: Michael Hudson and SteveA may be more useful21:18
mgedminI think the connection you're not sure of is "not a good match for"21:19
* pinner needs to go home21:19
pinnergood night, all21:20
pboddieI've never listened to his work, let alone his new album. :-)21:20
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pboddiepinner: Good night!21:20
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